Mini 113:Peril in Per-Djehuty (Game Over)

[MeMe]

random

vote: BeyondTheGame

[MeMe]

random

vote: Fuldu

Come on, people, start posting!

Complaining about the lack of posts in your own first post of the game? Can you say "hypocritical"?

unvote: BeyondTheGame
vote: gashlycrumb

[MeMe]

I wonder why Thoth tagged DP as a retired cop in the opening post. I've only seen that role acting as a backup cop...but this didn't seem to be the case with DP as he was a vigilante. I don't know if there's anything usable there, but I thought I'd point it out. It may just pay for us to keep in mind that Thoth might not being going standard here with the role names.

[MeMe]

Well, heck y'all.

unvote: gashly
vote: Argoti

Three votes! Who wants to do the honors of telling me how

risky

that is?

[MeMe]

I can tell you the reason for

I

voted for him -- he was the only one with two on him and I thought placing a third would get some kind of response from

someone

.

However, since the response I got was Argoti asking for the correct number of votes at which he should claim, I'm sticking for now. I wasn't trying to force a claim, just discussion -- that he seems willing to spill his role in reaction to a random/non-reasoned mini-wagon looks jumpy.

[MeMe]

I find it quite odd that Argoti chose to claim directly after I posted that his willingness to claim is

why

I was keeping my vote on him...

...But how can I continue to vote a claimed doc this early in the game? Difficult choice, in my opinion.

unvote: Argoti

The sarcastic "good job" rather sticks in my craw, however. I could just as easily (and much more justifiably) say to him "Good job-- you've just handed the scum your head on a platter, causing us to lose what I HOPE isn't our only doctor instead of trying to actually use reason and persuasion to get votes off of you." Role claiming should be a last ditch effort to stay alive.

vote: Uraj45

And here's why...after the claim, he pushed for further information, which resulted in Argoti saying he can't self-protect...which was info best left unsaid. It was, of course, ultimately Argoti's responsibility to keep that quiet -- but I see Uraj's request as digging.

Also

FOS: BlueSin

for placing the fourth vote for the sole reason of getting a role claim.

[MeMe]

Good enough for me, Uraj -- for now, anyway.

unvote: Uraj45
vote: BlueSin

[MeMe]

Simul-post.

Also Uraj why should people not vote for you... what infomation do you have that could help the town out... other than assumptions made by merely post reading..??

Ummmm....whoa. "Merely post reading" is the core of mafia. And am I misreading this, Beyond? Or

are

you trying to force a role claim from Uraj?

Wow - there are just *so many* suspicious people/statements popping up. Yay!

[MeMe]

With this lack of activity, I'm ready to mercilessly cull lurkers.

Alright - mlaker & Narninian have only one post each. Since Narn posted in the help forum that he's having trouble, I'll give him a slight benefit of the doubt.

unvote: BlueSin
vote: mlaker

Let's kick it into gear, people!

[MeMe]

How 'bout you start

now

?

[MeMe]

Whoa - panic much?

I wasn't posting in this game because of all the random ness!!

Hmmm...didn't you just say that you weren't posting in this game because you "kind of forgot about" this? But if the

real

reason is the one I've quoted above, let me just say that you can't complain about the way it was played when you weren't playing.

Happy with my vote.

[MeMe]

Well, I'm far from satisfied with mlaker's story.

In his claim, he said that he's lost his "brothers"...and that he sends in a name nightly to see if that person is his bro. Now - I'd like to know if his brother(s) are also looking for him or if he's the only one able to search. If it's the latter, then his potential mason(s), as I read it, may not even know they're lost. But mlaker's "Gosh! Don't let more innocents come out! We've had to many claims already!" post seemed to imply that

he

believed that they COULD back him up at this point, which seems really weird if they haven't hooked up yet. It also seems as though the right way to play this if they do know they're lost would have been to slip the words lost and brothers into posts to see if anyone responded in kind...but maybe that only seems obvious to

me

.

But, mason is a possibly provable role, so I'll drop him for now. And, in case you haven't caught the hint, if you are what you say you are, mlaker, don't bother trying to check me -- I'm not one of your elusive brothers.

unvote: mlaker
FOS: mlaker

He does stay firmly at the top of my suspicion list, however. His extreme retaliation to my clearly defined lurker vote on him, his insistence on blaming me for both Argoti's claim and his own claim, the fact that he gave two different reasons for his lurking (1 - forgot about the game and 2 - because of all the "random ness") are too many weirdnesses to ignore. Just looking through his posts today look like a vendetta against MeMe induced by the fact that I "pushed" him for "more" when he'd given us nothing except a promise to be active. His activity since my "start now" post proves it was a reasonable request. He was

able

to speak, he was just choosing not to (or forgetting to, depending on which story you go with).

[MeMe]

vote: BeyondTheGame

~shrugs~

[MeMe]

mlaker - your vendetta against me is becoming more ridiculous/irritating with each post. Do you know the definition of "bandwagon" and "led"?

[MeMe]

mlaker --

BeyondTheGame's not a "random person." Nothing I do past the first post of the day is random (and even

then

I often vote the person most likely to generate informational responses). BTG's suggestion of no-lynch is suspicious, but alone it's no big deal. In searching for someone more suspicious than you -- which is

difficult

, but I'm trying -- I see that many of his posts have had small weirdnesses...

I've been pretty quiet in this game... <<snip>>Also Uraj why should people not vote for you... what infomation do you have that could help the town out... other than assumptions made by merely post reading..??

I pointed this out at the time...looks like a push for a claim.

To be honest I hope it dosn't come to his making a role claim... as that wouldn't be fair on him... to be forced to role claim this early... but I am more or less hoping he would have a bit more infomation than what many others are going by...

So I think it would be better if I was too rephrase this question...

Uraj do you have infomation that the rest of us don't know about?

Backpedals, but ends this post

still

pushing for role information.

... Sorry about condricting myself as pointed out by Maverick and a few others... At the time of making the 2nd post I was awfully tired and figured I would be able to make a response without condricting what I said in the previous...<<snip>>It also seems we have quite a large amount of BandWagon Voters.. If this has any linkage of been mafia I don't know.. perhaps its just a coincedence..<<snip>>Ok so at the moment... I'm going to wait for more infomation to come out in order for me to cast an resonable vote on someone....

Admits to being contradictory and then points a finger at bandwagon voters and takes it right back with his "I don't know...maybe coincidence" line -- huge post with an "I have no idea" result. Why bother?

Vote: mlaker

Much like MeMe has said laker has been quite quiet I'm hoping sparking a few against will spark a reaction in order to get this game rolling again...

Becomes a bandwagon voter here, weird considering he thought it could be suspicious in his last post.

Thats ok Narninian...

Yeah it was a shame that the Doc claimed....

I'm just waiting for this game to become more active... as it seems to be really slow at the moment... Come on People start posting..

May be a deliberate attempt to look pro-town "yeah...it's a shame..."

I only casted the vote to stir up the pot... in an attempt to get people more active... hopefully it has worked... I'm going to agree with MeMe for the time being and keep my vote on you...

Seems anxious to be clear that he didn't vote mlaker because he's suspicious of him or anything...

The posts/portions of posts above, taken together, don't cast BTG in a good light. The most interesting thing is that he posts a long treatise concluding with the line that he wants to make a reasonable vote...and then his next vote is one he claims is just to "spark discussion" and "stir up the pot."

So, mlaker. I have reasons for my vote & I'd appreciate it if you'd start being reasonable as well.

[MeMe]

Defend that "four bandwagons" statement please, gashly.

I put the third vote on Argoti to get things going -- that's one. I voted mlaker because he's scummy -- that's two.

Regardless, I don't

mind

if I'm a "major force" in three, four, five, six, or forty bandwagons if I see reason for the wagon(s). But being "all over the place" (which isn't true of me YET) isn't suspicious...it's smart. When there's reason to change a vote, one should do it. Most of us are in the dark and so must adjust their votes as more information/reactions surface. Would you argue that it'd be better to play like, say, mlaker? Latching onto someone and not letting go?

And, to your last post gashly -- duh. I was talking about the fact that mlaker, if he's not full of crap, should have been hinting rather than lurking early in the game,

before

his claim.

[MeMe]

I'm getting bad bad vibes from gashly.

[MeMe]

unvote: BTG
vote: gashlycrumb

For seeming drippingly scummy and not defending her "four bandwagons" accusations against me, though I specifically requested that she do so.

And I'll say it so mlaker can rest his fingers: "Another bandwagon against an innocent by MeMe!"

[MeMe]

Let me run down my actions so far this game...

1) Random voted BeyondTheGame (only vote on him)
2) switched to gashly when, in her first post, she said "get to posting" (only vote on her)
3) switched to Argoti when conversation stalled to rev it back up (third vote on him)
4) explained my vote for Argoti when gashly posted "remind me again"
5) unvoted Argoti after he claimed doc & voted Uraj for pushing Argoti for further information (only vote on him)
6) unvoted Uraj when he explained himself well -- voted BlueSin because of the oddity of his vote post for Uraj -- note: I did not explain the reason for my vote at the time (second vote on him)
7) questioned BeyondTheGame for seeming to want a role claim from Uraj
8) unvoted BlueSin & voted mlaker for lurking (only vote on him)
9) pushed mlaker to post content when he posted a nothing post
10) pointed out mlaker's panic and inconsistency in his retaliation post
11) unvoted mlaker

only

because of his mason claim
12) voted Beyond (only vote on him)
13) detailed the reasons for my vote on BTG in response to mlaker's accusation that I'm attacking a "another random person"
14) Asked gashly to defend her "bandwagon" statement about me
15) mentioned that I'm getting bad vibes from gashly
16) unvoted BTG, voted gashly (only vote on her)

Notice that I found gashly suspicious after her first post (point 2) -- which kinda knocks the wind out of her condescending OMGUS theory. Also notice that my votes aren't wild, but have reason behind them. Her accusation against me looked designed to be inflammatory (here it is, as a reminder)

MeMe is all over the place. I understand wanting to post a lot, to get people to start talking and to keep the conversations going. Voting for people to judge their reactions can be a great strategy, but it seems like MeMe is bordering on stirring up trouble for the sake of trouble. She's been throwing accusations left and right. She's been a major force in all four of the bandwagons we've had so far. It's a good strategy to get people talking, but it's also a good strategy for scum who just want to lynch a townie and be done with it.

FOS: MeMe

Note that it's full of loaded language (and

not

full of facts). That she didn't bother to respond to my request to explain herself until I actually voted for her, though she

did

get on to post (and, I'm assuming, read & ignore my request) between her FOS and my vote, only makes me more suspicious.

Although some push the theory that bandwagons are

bad

things...they're the

entire daytime game

. We will not move forward without them happening. Uraj & BlueSin have both managed to quell their wagons without claiming -- and any player should be able to do the same if they explain themselves or help us find another/a better target.

I know I've been wrong in this game already -- I'm sure I'll be wrong again. All I can do is make my best guess at each stage of the game. My best guess right now is gashly. We all can read posts for ourselves; you shouldn't take my word for

anything

. The above list is meant just as a quick summary of what I've done so you can compare the truth with the FOS. Read gashly's posts for yourself, if you don't agree she's scummy -- fine with me. But I like her for the noose. (Cute, huh?)

[MeMe]

You sillies.

So, you assume that gashly's probably innocent if I'm scum? If I die and am scum will the others I've accused in detail be tentatively cleared for you too...i.e. BTG and mlaker? Wow. This should be easy in future games with this group -- if I'm scum I'll just heavily accuse those I'm working with...advise them to do the same...and when one of us dies, the others should be home free for the rest of the game. Woo-hoo!

I'm flabbergasted that anyone could read the thread (and especially my last post) and say that I'm "slightly scummer" [sic] than gashly. I also fear for the town if everyone makes leaps of logic like gashly and I probably can't be scum together. We're

not

-- but why on earth would you rule it out? I mean,

I

think it's possible for gashly, Narn, and mlaker to be in it together even though Narninian voted for mlaker & gashly FOSed Narninian.

Don't assume anything. Read and be smart.

[MeMe]

This game is making me extremely irritated.

I'll pop in if it's absolutely necessary I do so -- e.g. if someone makes a compelling case against another and I think I should change my vote...but I'm really hoping I'll be spared the trouble. I'll continue to read, but I will be deliberately lurking from here to the end of the day. I don't have the patience to respond anymore. I've worked hard to be clear and fair, but I don't think I can continue to do so without blowing a fuse.

[MeMe]

What a surprise.

[MeMe]

Let me point out that mlaker and Narninian have both not been here since I posted my intent to lurk...and that your vote on me is YOUR first post since before then. So give me a break -- at least accuse me of something you yourself haven't been doing. Or is it MORE suspicious to

say

you're not going to post before lurking than to say

nothing

and do the same? Gah.

And, because I can't stand to have gashly's terming my lurking a "strategy," I'll cut & paste my post.

This game is making me extremely irritated.

I'll pop in if it's absolutely necessary I do so -- e.g. if someone makes a compelling case against another and I think I should change my vote...but I'm really hoping I'll be spared the trouble. I'll continue to read, but I will be deliberately lurking from here to the end of the day. I don't have the patience to respond anymore. I've worked hard to be clear and fair, but I don't think I can continue to do so without blowing a fuse.

It's not a

strategy

-- just mental health preservation.

I've pointed to whom I think is most scummy and I'm voting that player. I'm also still keeping my Argoti eye open because doctor claim or no -- he's playing very stupidly. Claimed early, says he thinks I'm getting scummier and scummier based, apparently, on mlaker's and gashly's brilliant points against me (yes -- that's sarcasm), and voting himself with a "lynch the doctor instead" punctuation as though he & I are the only two choices on the table. And, of course, there's mlaker who's only spared my voting wrath because of his mason claim -- but don't think for a minute I believe it.

[MeMe]

Unbelievable.

--mlaker OMGUSed me and has stuck (without speaking for four days now, apparently happily watching what he started gain momentum)
--Argoti voted me for getting "scummier and scummier" (though his posts as a whole are textbook non-content -- look at them for crying out loud)
--Gashly voted me for deliberately lurking when there had been three people (

gashly included

) who'd been lurking for longer than I
--BlueSin voted me for being emotional.

The lack of logic used against me in this game is simply incredible. Though I almost prefer to be out of this game than keep playing with people who refuse sense, I simply

cannot

intentionally throw in the towel. It'd be great if I didn't have to claim, but I have four votes now which will kill me @ deadline and only two more need join this nonsensical bandwagon to put an end to me prior to deadline.

I'm the "newbie cop." Note that in one of my early posts I pointed out that DP's role was interestingly worded...that was to bring it to everyone's attention that he'd been a cop and probably now has a replacement. I don't have a guilty result.

[MeMe]

And I just saw Argoti on but he didn't unvote me.

At the very least, that's reckless and makes me more suspicious of him (especially given his silly reaction to Uraj voting him though he'd already claimed doc).

[MeMe]

Excellent. Great plan.

[MeMe]

Thoth - please clarify how many votes will lynch at deadline.

Town: if I'm lynched, please do me a favor and view with extreme suspicion anyone who puts a vote on me at this point or refuses to unvote me. Remember, what they have to be saying is either "I don't believe her" or "I don't care" both of which are crazy ways to play -- especially given the high number of suspicious others in this game.

Exception to this plea is Argoti. I tend to think that his admission of recklessness is just that. Scum have to know I'll turn up innocent if lynched, so to admit deliberate recklessness in keeping his vote on me -- though extremely irritating -- is probably the act of a townie who isn't processing the thread carefully rather than scum with a deathwish (see, he could have easily said "I didn't even see your post!" and unvoted me rather than agreeing that he's playing with fire and setting himself up for a lynch tomorrow). However -- this "I'm reckless" attitude shouldn't be counted as innocence for anyone else now that I've pointed it out.

If I die, please put my lynchers at the top of the suspect list...my preference goes gashly then mlaker then BlueSin.

[MeMe]

I didn't say I took over for DP, Fuldu.

Please

remove your votes before you make a heinous (and very very avoidable) mistake. I

also

think that the "retired cop" is flavor...but it's flavor that matches my own role of "newbie cop." I pointed out DP's role as "retired cop" early so that you'd recognize my claim as truth if I ever had to give it.

I'm frankly flabbergasted that I'm this close to being lynched. If it happens, it will be my first time ever lynched when I have an innocent role. So --

scum, you should be proud of yourselves

. It's quite difficult to get me lynched when I'm on the side of right. Town, you should be ashamed of yourselves if you let it happen. At least give the rest of the players the luxury of breathing room by removing one vote! I'll die at deadline anyway, but to push me this close before several have even seen my claim is beyond reckless -- it's arrogant.

[MeMe]

I want to explain this -- because I realize that these two posts could be exploited as inconsistent if I don't.

Note that in one of my early posts I pointed out that DP's role was interestingly worded...that was to bring it to everyone's attention that he'd been a cop and probably now has a replacement.

This is referring to pre-game happenings -- back story.

I didn't say I took over for DP, Fuldu.

Please

remove your votes before you make a heinous (and very very avoidable) mistake. I

also

think that the "retired cop" is flavor...but it's flavor that matches my own role of "newbie cop." I pointed out DP's role as "retired cop" early so that you'd recognize my claim as truth if I ever had to give it.

This is clarification that I'm not a backup in this game -- newbie cop is my original role.

[MeMe]

Fine. I do appreciate you allowing the space regardless.

[MeMe]

I'm still more than 24 hours from a lynch -- I'm hoping that more people will realize that I'm a very poor choice and roll onto someone else (gashly? Anyone? Anyone?).

[MeMe]

well, meme....is that the desperate act of a scum or town? Yelling for unvote and then fos eveyone that voted you is not a clever thing to do.

It's plenty clever. It

should

make those voting me consider the fact that they better be sure their reasons for doing so are valid -- yours are "emotional" and, I'm assuming, deadline because of your "hope I did the right thing" comment. You will bear partial responsibility for my death if you don't unvote me and I die -- there's no getting around that, even with an eyeroll.

my question posted after this never been answer, I asked meme "do u mean he is a vig that can investigate?" I didn't re-ask again because I thought mabe meme don't want to reveal something that benefit town or my question is too stupid.

Well, as I've said a couple times now, I simply pointed out the retired cop thing in DP's death scene to back up my own role claim if it became necessary. Answering you would have been speculation and there's no way I wanted to give scum anything to nail me with later, e.g. "she was trying to lead us astray with that cop stuff in DP's role!" I've done quite a good job of giving scum nothing to work with; just look at the reasons given for voting me. Two are plain hypocritical (gashly - voting me for lurking, lurked more herself; mlaker - voting me for bandwagoning innocents (heh), doing it himself to me to the point of role claim, and is now lurking himself -- 5 days and counting).

As for Argoti - well, who the hell knows why he's voting, actually. Here's a complete summary of HIS posts...
1) Random vote
2) Panic over getting more than one early vote (12 words)
3) Says he's not panicking (9 words)
4) Inquires about the proper time to claim (9 words)
5) Claims (12 words)
6) Tells us the mechanics of the role (11 words)
7) Gives us his Night 1 choice (5 words)
8 ) Defends his early claim and joins those voting Uraj for digging (58 words)
9) Unvotes Uraj, FOSes BTG for no lynch suggestion (24 words)
10) Admits boredom with the game but says he's watching me get scummier and scummier (35 words)
11) Freaks out that anyone dare vote the claimed doctor and votes himself as well (9 words)
12) unvotes himself and votes me (8 words)
13) admits he's being reckless (7 words)

Now, I don't want to vote him because of 1) his claim 2) what I said about his #13 post yesterday, which looks townish to me. But neither do I want him to be allowed to continue to contribute nothing while I -- who despite wanting to lurk has contributed more than anyone to this game -- am lynched for some of the sloppiest reasons I've ever seen in a mini game.

I think mlaker's a liar AND a lurker. I think Narninian has been far too absent in this game. I think gashly has no case against me and is avoiding posting any comments

since

my claim so that she doesn't have to deal with it (and I'll also bet that the deadline lift pisses her off). I think Argoti's play is detrimental to the game. Oh - and while looking through the players, I wanted to reply to something b_k mentioned earlier (back when I was still lurking)...he noted that I've cycled through voting half the players. There's no requirement in my role to do so -- but I usually have to poke many to see where my vote fits best.

[MeMe]

MeMe just seems too vehement and lynch-happy to be a cop, to eager for blood, not only jumping on and off every bandwagon, but condemning everyone who votes for her in the event that she dies and turns up innocent. We can't really know. The mafia have an obvious advantage over the town in that they know who the other mafia are, and everyone else must be good. Those of us in the town haven't got that luxury, so I really can't know for sure that MeMe is scum, just that she seems to be acting like scum.
I can't unvote MeMe simply because MeMe doesn't want to be lynched, but if the town believes MeMe's claim and thinks she shouldn't be lynched, I'll cooperate. Anyone?

"Lynch-happy" and "eager for blood" "jumping on and off every bandwagon" "condemning everyone" - loaded words. If you'll notice, I get off a bandwagon whenever I see reason to do so...if I were truly eager for blood, I'd stick to it (kinda like you and mlaker & BlueSin are) rather than looking around for someone more plausible to vote.

Gashly, you don't need to unvote me because I don't "want to be lynched" -- because the fact is that I don't even

mind

dying...I'm just not about to do it without a fight. I've pointed out the suspicious behavior of those on my bandwagon because I'm doing my best for the town and I'm not going to die in vain without pointing out leads for the game's future. Sure,

most

can't know for sure I'll turn up innocent, but, once I do, I wanna make sure that those remaining know who to go after. If you're innocent, get off my bandwagon so it's not you in the noose tomorrow and the scum don't have an easy time of this game. If you're guilty, by all means, stay on. You can see that as condemning "everyone who votes for her" if you like -- but I'll point out that, although Argoti is very lurkily sticking to my wagon, I've asked the town to excuse him for now.

And how 'bout responding to the fact that you voted for me for lurking while you were doing it yourself MUCH more rampantly? I'd

love

to see some pressure put on you...if not today, then tomorrow is fine. I don't mind not being alive to enjoy it.

I think I will just hold my vote since I don't see why people would want a quick lynch by adding more vote as the deadline has been lifted. That's called pressure, right, meme? And I believe it will stimulate something for sure.

How much more do you think you can squeeze out of me? I've defended myself, answered every accusation against me, been way more reasonable than you guys deserve...and still you say "act way more differencely"? Again, if I'm lynched, this will be the first time ever I've been so as an innocent. That deserves a bit of acting different, in my opinion. I'm incredulous at the fact that reason isn't sinking in for you all -- I've always prided myself that I'm impossible to lynch when I'm telling the truth. I've actually gone so far as to mark one of the players in this game onto my list of "people I will avoid playing with in future" (but only if that person ends up innocent) -- it's that bad. Yep. More frustrated than ever. Congratulations. After two years of online mafia I've finally broken.

FOS: BlueSin

vote stands on gashly, though. She knows what she's doing for sure.

[MeMe]

Alright: drumroll, please....I'm changing my vote.

unvote: gashlycrumb
vote: BlueSin

Now that I'm no longer about to be killed, I've had the luxury of plodding leisurely through the game. I still have an eye on gashly, but her forcefulness doesn't strike me nearly so odd as BlueSin's behavior. It started with placing the fourth vote on Argoti to force his claim...then when there's a three-person wagon on him he says he's going to claim and does so by saying "pro-town" (which, as gashly pointed out, is

not

a claim). Later he posts "Seems that one of Meme and gashly is scum" but that same rl day votes Maverick because he didn't want to vote gashly nor I because we could both be innocent, but he believes we're both not.

Now on to my drama (and I'll admit this is what made me look into BlueSin carefully in the first place): he places a fourth vote on me when it's obvious the tide is going against me and a deadline has been announced. I claim and he mocks me...I rant and wail and he leaves his vote where it is for pressure...and then suddenly, miraculously, I somehow managed to convince him of my innocence. Call me a skeptic, but I think it may have more to do with the fact that my wagon lost steam (and, incidentally, it's most vocal supporter: gashly) and staying there could have looked suspicious.

The Maverick vote/follow up only makes me more concerned about him...why bother explaining that you didn't see a second vote had been placed? He's obviously not worried about Mav

having

three votes or he'd have removed his...so he must be worried that he'll look suspicious for placing the third vote. Considering his earlier Argoti vote and his vote for me approaching a deadline, I think that his sudden concern seems rather disingenuous and, therefore, becomes another reason to vote him.

Oh - and I live in Mav's hometown. Weather's been delightful of late -- but I can't give you any news about his modem.

[MeMe]

I unvote meme because I find her reason on being emotional quite believable as she never being bandwagon at day 1 before. and she had explained almost everything that people used to accuse her.

But I'd said that same thing here

I'm frankly flabbergasted that I'm this close to being lynched. If it happens, it will be my first time ever lynched when I have an innocent role.

Your two posts that came after this and before your unvote seemed to consider it more laughable than convincing. My point is that you only said I'd convinced you when my bandwagon fizzled -- making it seem that it wasn't

me

who'd changed your mind but the fact that your vote on me no longer enjoyed firm support.

I save meme from lynch and then 'it' backfire. Now I felt I have did the stupid thing.

And listen up, Superman. You didn't save me from the lynch -- but you

did

almost cause it. You were the fourth person to vote me near deadline and didn't

un

vote me until both Fuldu and gashly did. You didn't argue on my behalf or give me the benefit of the doubt...you were quite willing to see me swing. So, claiming to be my savior is rather ridiculous.

FOS: Maverick

I'm starting to think that the modem excuse could be kind of convenient. If he can't post, he should be replaced.

And one more little note because I'm anal...I just want to say that I

know

how to spell the possessive form of "it" and as it's one of my pet peeves (along with the common your & you're/to & too/there & their misuses) I hate that I put an apostrophe in my earlier post. I guess I was so intent on getting my url tags right that I didn't proof the body well.

[MeMe]

~taps microphone~

Is this thing on?

[MeMe]

Well, I'm fine with having Maverick die at deadline -- he certainly seems unwilling to help and the "that's just his style" excuse doesn't do anything for me except to make me think that he probably shouldn't bother signing up for any more games. If Maverick turns up guilty, I'll be wondering why mlaker felt the need to provide him with a defense, weak as it was.

Still, I'm keeping my vote on Blue.

[MeMe]

Well, this day went out with a fizzle.

[MeMe]

I think that BTG & BlueSin are fairly cleared of being mafia for being on Maverick's deadline lynch-wagon (though that doesn't clear either of them of being the knifer).

In real life, cops usually work in groups of two, so possiblly Fuldu's parter was MeMe (newbie cop).

To me, the death scene makes it look as though his partner's the one who killed him.

I've now gotten two innocent results and because I'm finding the second

especially

unbelievable, I'm leaning toward me being naive or reverse -- or, considering the death scene, maybe too trusting of my superiors.

mlaker - any luck on finding a brother? If not, who'd you check? Argoti - who'd you protect last night?

[MeMe]

Yes, actually I did find my bro's. But I won't reveal them now,

I don't believe you. Why? Because....

I was told in my PM that I had lost my brothers and each night I could send in a name to see if that person was my bro, and if the person was I would become a mason with that person.

You're telling us that last night you found your "bros" (plural); when on the first night you said that you could check one person per night. Also, you sorta defended Maverick near the end of the day yesterday by saying that lurking is his usual style.

I'd like to go ahead and give my investigations at this point, because I don't believe them to be trustworthy and I don't believe it can hurt anything...but I'll hold off on doing so if there are more than a couple of objections. Basically, if I die and am shown to be a sane cop, I could be putting a bullseye on the people I reveal...but since 1)I don't believe myself to be sane and 2)Fuldu's sanity wasn't revealed at death...I don't believe this is a real risk.

[MeMe]

One thing I find interesting is that mlaker claimed to be looking for someone and Fuldu was, apparently, looking for someone as well. Hmmm.....

[MeMe]

How many

are

there? You're apparently claiming at least two beside yourself.

And what's the rush to vote me? I think it's a bit irresponsible when we've still got three non-posters at this point. They may have valuable information that will give us better direction for today's lynch - but you're making it possible for a quick bandwagon to form on me.

[MeMe]

And another thing -- I didn't claim insane cop. I claimed newbie cop. I don't know my sanity.

[MeMe]

So fuldu was looking for somebody and found him then he got stabbed

Well...yes and no. it's possible I'm overthinking, but take a look at this...

Fuldu was quite anxious. He'd been looking for his partner for 2 nights now and not a sign of him yet. When he takes another turn he bumps into someone and immediately recognizes him.

This suggests that both of his efforts to find his partner were fruitless - but he ended up "bumping into" him.

The way I see the scene is that Fuldu turned in a name for night 2 -- and in his shoes, I would have probably checked either myself (claimed newbie cop) or mlaker (claimed to be looking as well). In any case, he guessed wrong...but then was targeted by the one he was looking for. I'm going way out into wild-speculation-land here now, but I'm wondering about the mechanics of Fuldu's role. If he had found his partner before his partner found

him

, could he have rehabilitated him? Anyway...

How likely is it that we now have a mason group of three (or more) and that Fuldu could have possibly formed a mason group of two? Or is it the general consensus that Fuldu would have never been a mason - but was just destined to die when reunited with his partner? And perhaps his nightly choice was one of searching for his partner...not able to investigate until he found him? Alright. Enough speculation for now.

Narn - what's with the numbers at the beginning of your post?

[MeMe]

I'll add some inducement...

vote: mlaker

There are already several obvious non-masons...since the brother possibilities are dwindling, I think it's better to confirm the existence of this group rather than to continue giving mlaker the benefit of doubt if he doesn't deserve it.

If no one wants to confirm him after a reasonable amount of time, we could always go backward with declarations of

not

being a mason to figure out if his story's bunk.

[MeMe]

if anyone is in his mason group, I urge them NOT to come out, or that'll be two innocent masons slaughtered instead of just one, [if mlaker is telling the truth, and if the town does, in fact, lynch him.]

First - understand. We are trying to prevent the lynching of an innocent with this confirmation. If a mason confirms mlaker, neither of them will be "slaughtered" today (though I can't speak for what will happen tonight).

Gashly - think about the mason situation.

--BlueSin's not a mason or he wouldn't be voting mlaker
--MeMe's not a mason or she wouldn't be voting mlaker (nor he me)
--Narninian's not a mason or he wouldn't be voting mlaker
--Argoti's not a mason, he's a doctor
--big_kahunia's

probably

not a mason as he voted mlaker yesterday after mlaker's claim

Who's left as mason possibilities? BeyondTheGame, you, and Uraj45. According to mlaker's claim, at least two of the three of you are his brothers. Without confirmation from one of this group, I'd be an idiot not to assume that mlaker's just made the whole thing up. How can you not see this? I know that it's possible that you're a mason with mlaker and that's why you refuse to see this from a logical,

non-mason

point of view...but to give mlaker a benefit of the doubt is ridiculous without confirmation. He came out of the gate today with a different story ("apparently when I find one I find them all") than he gave us yesterday. That alone is enough to suspect him anew.

The only thing saving mlaker is his mason claim. Well, what if it's a big lie? We just give him a free pass? No. A mason must confirm him -- that's standard procedure. No one deserves to be FOSed for demanding what's logical. However, a person who blindly accepts a questionable claim (potential mason...who checks one person nightly...but gets more than one brother if he's successful with a single guess...er...). If you're

not

a mason, gashly -- you're making no sense. If you

are

a mason, I understand. Kinda. But you, in return, should understand the skepticism of someone who's not "in the know."

Anyway - on an unrelated note...

FOS: gashlycrumb

for trying to spin Fuldu's death scene into something it's definitely not.

[MeMe]

I agree with Narn & Blue. The way both gashly & BTG are playing it -- seeming to express belief in mlaker without actually confirming him -- could be an effort to avoid the issue and deny association if he's found to be guilty.

A straight answer is in order.

[MeMe]

Um...it

must

be because I'm an evil mafia member who wants to destroy all town chance by having your bevy of brothers come forward for me to slaughter! My evil plan is exposed, aaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

And, though you seem unable to see and/or understand all my earlier posts on the subject of why you

must

be confirmed rather than simply trusted because you say so...I'll bet you'll be fully able to focus on the above sentence. I'm eagerly anticipating your "see! she admitted it!" post.

[MeMe]

unvote: mlaker

[MeMe]

Oh, and this means that I'm either naive or sane as I got mlaker as innocent last night.

[MeMe]

And I'm sorry for tripling (playing BSW at the same time) - but I just checked my notes on the game & based on them and the new information...

vote: Uraj45

[MeMe]

You are seperated from your three brothers each night submit a name and you will find out if thats your brother. Then from then on each night you may communicate.

Hold up. Separated from your THREE brothers? There are four of you?

[MeMe]

Doesn't

what

already say three?

And as for elaboration:

These people aren't at the top of my list...though I acknowledge there could be scum here:

Argoti

- claimed doc

BeyondTheGame

- claimed mason

BlueSin

- voted Maverick yesterday

mlaker

- claimed mason

I've got a good idea that one of these people is the other mason; and one of them could be guilty, but they're less likely than you, in my opinion...

big_kahunia

gashlycrumb

Narninian

As for you...

Uraj45

- Yesterday you raised suspicion by trying to get more information from Argoti; and you didn't vote or comment on Maverick's wagon (or anything since June 23); and you've been lurking this day up until you received a vote. So, that's why you've got my vote currently.

[MeMe]

I agree with some of MeMe's reasoning but the other part of her reasoning is things that she's been doing the whole game! Lurking, trying to get more info. And big_Kahunia I assure there are only three masons.

mlaker - I haven't lurked. I

intended

to lurk, I

announced

my coming lurk, but I ended up being quiet for just 3 days (you, Narninian, and gashly were beating me in the lurking department at that time as I pointed out then).

As for trying to get more info -- yes. That's the way the game is played. Without information, the town remains ignorant. But the cases are different. Uraj wanted more from Argoti after the doc claim. I wanted more from both you and Argoti

before

your claims. Earlier today, as yesterday, I was still quite suspicious of you. That you seemed to change your story and no one was confirming you made more information necessary. Now we've got it and we can move on to someone more likely to be guilty.

[MeMe]

It resulted in this, Uraj:

I was told I was the towns doctor, no self protection

That's what was wrong with it. But, having had this recalled to my attention...I, too, am surprised that Fuldu was double-targeted. Seems that at least one of the killers would have tried to take out a doctor with no self-protect ability.

FOS: Argoti

[MeMe]

I want to ask, does anyone else think that the "Masons" are just mafia? That's been my vibe since I read there were 3 of them.

Sure. Yesterday I was 95% convinced of mlaker's guilt...and then when no one was confirming him today, the suspicion only grew. But now that BTG has come out, it's rather doubtful, in my opinion. Now that we know there are two killing groups, it'd be too much of a risk to confirm a mafia member because all the other killer has to do is target one of them tonight...we'd see a dead scum "mason" in the morning, and we'd know exactly who to lynch tomorrow.

It's not out of the question, but the confirmation makes it less likely.

[MeMe]

Well, gashly, I assumed you were the third...but I don't understand why you felt the need to

confirm

it at this stage.

Regardless, that

seals

their innocence. No way would three mafia expose themselves just to be lynched one after the other if one dies overnight...and there shouldn't be three mafia left anyway (Maverick died already and four mafia plus another killer would be insanity).

[MeMe]

Regarding BlueSin: he'd have to be a lone killer, in my opinion, since he was one of the three who helped to lynch a mafia member yesterday. I'm unwilling to vote him at this point since he's cleared of being one type of scum.

[MeMe]

mlaker - you don't have to trust

me

. If you'd actually read the thread, you'd probably come to the same conclusion I have. You're quite fortunate to have been dealt the role of mason -- but that doesn't mean that you should be excused from making sense. You don't seem to be following the game beyond the last couple posts......you defended Maverick when he didn't deserve defense...and you've been after me since the beginning of the game based on the fact that I was justifiably suspicious of you. Remember:

I didn't know you were a mason

. You were lurking and then went straight into attack mode because I actually thought it was important that you contribute.

Now, through confirmation, you're cleared....if I were a lucky, lucky mason like you I could probably get away with the nonsense you have, but I'm a lone cop, so I can't. Anyway -- like I said, you're cleared along with gashly and Beyond. Everyone who's

not

a mason can be a valid suspect at this point: Argoti, b_k, BlueSin, Narninian, Uraj, or me. But it makes the most sense to go after someone who hasn't claimed doc or cop or been on the mafia wagon yesterday...leaving b_k, Narn, and Uraj. Uraj, in my opinion he's our best chance at scum at this point (and don't ask me for my reasons -- I stated them in my vote post. Go look it up). But if someone else comes up with a decent case against one of the others, I'll probably switch my vote....and "decent case" consists of something more than "I don't trust him/her" or "just a hunch."

FOF*: mlaker

*Finger of Frustration

[MeMe]

(and don't ask me for my reasons -- I stated them in my vote post. Go look it up)

Sorry. I stated my reasons six posts after my vote post. Same page,though.

[MeMe]

~yawns~

We

could

do a mass role-claim. We've already got a cop a doc and three masons claimed. It seems that we're protecting more mafia roles than pro-town roles at this point.

How does that sound?

[MeMe]

Whatcha scared of, BlueSin? That we might be able to spot your completely made-up claim?

[MeMe]

Um - Narn? Where do you get the idea that Fuldu was retired? I see nothing about that in his death scene or the front page.

And Uraj...that you may have been responsible for Fuldu's death seems like mighty big information for a pro-town role to sit on, especially when it has caused speculation about two anti-town killing groups. How was your role worded? Are you looking for your partner or just getting investigation results like a regular cop?

unvote: Uraj45

for the moment. Now BlueSin's now our only unclaimed player and I think he needs to come out with it.

[MeMe]

I find it hard to believe as well...especially with three masons.

[MeMe]

ok, claim time,
I'm the backup cop. Once my friend ___ died, I gain his investigation ability.

Did you receive a name where you've placed the blank?

[MeMe]

And I'm not asking for you to disclose the name...just to verify that's what you're implying.

[MeMe]

Well, no...but that means that, if you're telling the truth, you know the name of an innocent and could clear someone else for everyone.

[MeMe]

Here's the deal -- since BlueSin both claimed to still be backup (hasn't yet taken over) and that he seems concerned about risking a life, the cop in his role PM (if he's telling the truth) HAS to be alive...therefore not Fuldu.

BlueSin has both voted for me & FOSed me...therefore not me.

BlueSin has FOSed Uraj...therefore not Uraj.

Leaving only Narninian as the possible cop mentioned in Blue's role.

yes. maybe you should - there are too many claimed cops - one of them has to be lying..

Narninian has already given Blue the go-ahead to expose the cop...so the hemming and hawing is only adding confusion and suspicion to BlueSin.

I'm also having a hard time believing that Thoth would write a game where there's a 3-person mason group AND a backup cop who knows his predecessor. That's way too town-powerful.

Argoti & big_k cross confirm each other...so unless we think there's NO doc in this game, they're clear...but with so many claimed cops is it possible that docs were left completely out? Interesting concept.

If Blue is telling the truth, then it leaves Uraj & I as the only scum possibilities. A mafia team of just two members (dead Maverick being one) is too small...and I'm not scum, so that's what it'd be.

However -- the fact that BlueSin voted Maverick yesterday is still pretty powerful in distancing himself from the mafia...

Someone else pitch in here and give thoughts.

[MeMe]

Uraj is still my best bet...but BlueSin's evasiveness is really pissing me off. I'd like him to come on back and dispel the fog.

[MeMe]

No, it's not true. And if Thoth is just messing with our minds & Uraj is telling the truth, it stands to reason that he would've voted me (or at least suspected I was lying about my role) when I said this on Day 1...

This is clarification that I'm not a backup in this game -- newbie cop is my original role.

Instead, his next post after I posted that was this...

Look this bandwagon is a big mistake. It's interesting how MeMe makes a lengthy post explaining her own actions and the oppositions are just a few lines. What does your role being possible to prove have to do with being suspicious or not mlaker??

vote: Uraj

[MeMe]

Let's run the claims down again.

Argoti

- Doctor

big_kahunia

- Nurse (Back-up Doctor)

BeyondTheGame

- Mason

gashlycrumb

- Mason

mlaker

- Mason

MeMe

- Newbie Cop (with three innocent results)

BlueSin

- Back-up Cop

From my perspective, the scum set-up had to be:
3 scum, 1 SK or
2 scum, 1 SK

With 3 masons, I think the 3 scum set-up could work without being too unbalanced in favor of the baddies. I know that I'm not cleared, but read Narninian's posts -- I'm pretty sure he investigated me night 1 because he was never on my wagon and said from nearly the outset of the game that he believed me to be innocent...and, as a cop one year from retirement, I'd assume he'd be competent. Hopefully that will help set the minds of those of you who are town at ease regarding my alignment.

Alright...if the set up had only two mafia, they would have to be either
Maverick & BlueSin or
Maverick & big_kahunia

If the set up had three mafia, they could be
Maverick, big_kahunia, & BlueSin or
Maverick, big_kahunia, & Argoti

See...Argoti cannot be scum without big_kahunia being scum because who would big_k be backing up then?

According to Narn's posts, he had narrowed down the lynch suspects (for yesterday) to Uraj & b_k. Based on that and the fact that big_k appears three times in the four possibilities above, I'm gonna

vote: big_kahunia

I think my reasoning is sound, but feel free to poke holes if you see them.

[MeMe]

Uh - people?

[MeMe]

True that we won't know Narn's choice until the end...but why would he go to such lengths to say on a number of occasions that he believed me innocent if he didn't have

good reason

(not just gut) to believe it true?

But if you're dead set on discounting the probability of Narn investigating me, and you truly believe that it's likely that BlueSin & I are the scum left...why choose

me

as your vote-getter rather than BlueSin? After all, he has made no secret of the fact that he's withholding information from us that could clear another player.

[MeMe]

I can unvote you and vote BlueSin if you wish since I'm positive both of you are scum.

That's quite a jump...you went from BlueSin & I being "Another possible scum combination" in your last post to being "positive."

Look through the thread, everyone. BlueSin

could

be scum (but his vote was one of three to lynch Maverick)...I

could

be scum (but noting all of Narn's comments about me should cause reasonable doubt)...we

could

be scum together and all of our back and forth on day 1

could

have been play-acting....

Careful reading of the thread makes a declaration of positivity about me & BlueSin being scum together ridiculous...especially when we're not even sure how many scum are left.

We need to hear from everyone and soon (BTG, BS, and gashly). I'm

extremely

happy with my vote at the moment, however.

[MeMe]

Well, this is not the first time meme pressured me to reveal the other confirmed cop/town. I choose to reveal because my friend is already killed last night. No need to worry making him the bull eye tonight. Yep, he is Narn.

I'll remind you that yesterday Narninian urged you to reveal as well and that I had worked out who you were backing up (if your story isn't crap). Pressuring you to reveal information that could help us isn't nefarious behavior -- any more than you saying that we should fully reveal night choices is. I mean, what's the

difference

? The fact that you seem to want it viewed as scummy when I do it and "how we catch scum" when you do it is inconsistent. And, anyway, what if YOU'D died last night? Then your withholding of the information could have been disastrous...we wouldn't know for sure that Narninian was innocent and might have been lynched today. If you're innocent, that scenario

should

have crossed your mind.

However, b_k's statement that he is now positive that BlueSin & I are scum is just plain wrong. That you, BlueSin, again take a potshot at me rather than the person who has made a glaringly bold and inaccurate declaration that could lose the game for the town is wacky -- especially because you're one of three people who

know

it's complete blustery bull.

Of course, if you're scum with b_k, everything makes perfect sense. You keep playing your "MeMe's acting scummy" game...and if I get lynched, bully for you guys. But if

you

get lynched, b_k says "see! I was right! I was sure they were both scum! Lynch MeMe now!" I

really

have to think about this...

On the one hand, BlueSin is claiming to have been handed the name of an innocent from the very first day. That's a pretty big deal (and stretches believability)...especially as we have three masons in the game.

On the other hand, big_k is just screaming scumminess...his quick vote change from me to BlueSin when he's "positive" I'm scum seemed like a backing down, to me. Why would he allow himself to be bullied into a change if he's sure? And he's the one guy who fits in almost every possible scum scenario.

Argoti is the

least

of the trio in the possibilities I mentioned earlier to be scum as there was no SK kill night 1...the only other explanations for that besides doc protect is that BlueSin is unkillable at night (making him scum) or that Uraj chose not to kill night 1 (unlikely)...so that leaves me with either BlueSin or big_k or both being scum. From their behavior (and the strength of the town), I'm thinking both.

One last thing about myself, though I know no one's voting me at the moment...it still goes against anyone who's trying to set me up for later. Consider this: if I were scum, would I have wanted Narninian (someone who's been championing my innocence) dead? Even if he'd not yet investigated me, he was fairly unlikely to do so.

Gashly? Beyond? If they don't speak up soon, can we get prods/replacements?

And my choices, for the record, have been: Narninian, mlaker, BlueSin (all innocent).

[MeMe]

And my choices, for the record, have been: Narninian, mlaker, BlueSin (all innocent).

what you mean by this?

It's an answer to this...

So, I suggest a mass revealation of night investigations?

I investigated you three, in that order, and got all innocent results.

With so many protowns, I doubt meme is right that there is 2 mafia left. I think there's more than 2. Or this game is extremely unbalance. Think of it, 3 confirmed masons, 4 cops and 2 backups != 2 mafia

You think we started with at least 4 mafia & an SK? That theory starts us out with only 7 innocents (at most), leaving us with 4 since three are already dead.

Um...come on.

If you were an innocent who truly believed that there are 3 scum left, you should have been able to figure out by now who the scum are. Since you seem to be making up new (sloppy) theories that seem to come from the sole desire to point a finger at me -- I'm having a hard time keeping my vote on b_k...if you're innocent, you're certainly working hard to confuse issues unnecessarily...and I just don't think an innocent would do that.

unvote: big_k

I'll hold my vote for a bit, though. That'd make three on BlueSin & I don't want a quick fourth vote to end the day when we've got two players yet to speak at all today.

[MeMe]

I still think that Argoti could be a prime suspect.

I, too, think Argoti could be mafia...but he's

not

a prime suspect. At best, he's a secondary suspect as it's impossible for him to be scum if big_k isn't also scum.

[MeMe]

Um...yo?

vote: big_kahunia

Let's see what happens.

[MeMe]

The lack of posts is really starting to bug me.

[MeMe]

Alright. I'm weary enough just to get on with it.

unvote: big_k
vote: Blue

[MeMe]

According to my count, BTG's vote was #4 (the last) -- so if you've got something to say that could help us, Blue, please say it quick before night falls.

[MeMe]

Well that's weird...Thoth posted in Mish Mash but didn't close this game. Either my count's wrong or Blue doesn't get lynched at four.

Mod? Could we have an official count?

[MeMe]

Blue - that's the second time you've refused to share information that could benefit us....but the FIRST time you've claimed to have passed down information from Narninian. Basically, you're saying that you know for a fact whether or not Narninian investigated me & found me innocent (as I've reasoned). Since you're already out as a back-up cop -- it's just play ridiculous that you wouldn't either 1) denounce my theory or 2) uphold my theory if you knew the facts.

A true cop would want the town to benefit from his knowledge. Since you seem hell-bent on sitting on what you claim to know until it's too late for any good to come of it, I'd say it's pretty definite you're lying.

[MeMe]

I've just PM'd Thoth to make sure he's paying attention to the thread...I'll let you know when/if he picks it up.

I just went through the votes again, and I'm sure they are as follows:

BlueSin

(4) - big_kahunia, Argoti, MeMe, BeyondTheGame

big_kahunia

(2) - gashlycrumb, BlueSin (though Blue placed his vote "late" -- after BTG put the final vote on Blue)

[MeMe]

Argoti - you

could

be possible mafia...but as I've been pointing out for a while now, it's impossible for you to be mafia without big_k as a partner because he'd be a back-up for no one.

vote: big_kahunia

He was my investigation last night. I didn't expect to get anything but an innocent result, but my time & hard work on the force is paying off and I'm getting better at my job:

big_kahunia is evil

. Oh...yes.

Even if you are skeptical, consider these points:
1) Everyone who's died so far has had an active game role
2) Everyone who's still alive has claimed an active game role -- except for big_k, who claims to be a back-up
3) Of those alive, big_k was the last to claim -- obviously waiting to see what would "fit"
4) If we have two scum left, we're in a lynch right or lose situation...and the scum MUST include big_k (either me & him or Argoti & him)
5) If we have just one scum left, it's either me or big_k, but lynching him is

still

the better idea, just in case there are two (and you can kill me tomorrow -- with just one scum left a bad lynch still results in a tomorrow)
6) Norinel believed me to be innocent (indicating he investigated me)

[MeMe]

Most mini games have 3 mafia and 1 SK, true.

Most mini games, however, do

not

have a super-strong town in the form of 3 masons, a doc & a backup, a vigilante, and 2 cops (as your theory would stipulate)...so I'm not willing to wager that we're absolutely down to 1 scum quite yet and I'm hoping that gashly & BTG won't take that chance either.

Remaining, we either have

:
2 masons, 1 cop, and 2 scum
2 masons, 1 cop, 1 doc, and 1 scum

Just remember, folks...big_kahunia is the smart lynch because:
--If we have

two

scum left, big_kahunia is

definitely

one of them
--If we have

one

scum left, it's either me or big_k & it's an inevitable scum loss either today or tomorrow.

[MeMe]

Can we get a gashly-prod?

[MeMe]

That's odd.

I just can't think of any

good

reason that a player assumed to be cleared by all of the non-masons would avoid the game. You know -- gashly's behavior is starting to give me the horrible feeling that one of the masons might be mafia. It's been happening more frequently in games that masons can't fully trust each other, their only perk being that they can talk at night. BTG -- can you tell us the vibe that your role gave you? Did it say that you know for certain that your brothers are innocent? Or simply that once you find your brothers you'll be able to communicate at night?

Still, like I said, there's no good reason for gashly to lurk -- regardless of his/her actual alignment. More than likely this is just a red herring resulting from an overactive imagination fueled by inconsiderate play. So, I'm sticking with my b_k vote unless something drastic happens. Of course, all that will

probably

happen is that gashly will post and vote for me because I suspected her unfairly...

[MeMe]

Argoti has claimed doctor.
big_kahunia has claimed back-up doctor.
If Argoti is scum, who's big_k backing up? No one.
Therefore, if Argoti is scum, so is big_k.

Yes - I "purposely" left off the third configuration -- but not to manufacture a stronger argument -- but because it is

impossible

.

I

think

that's clear, but if you still see nefariousness in my explanation, I'll find some other way to explain what I think is perfectly obvious.

[MeMe]

OK - here's where it stands for me: barring the possibility that Thoth has pulled a mindscrew on us and given us one or two guilty masons, I

know

big_k is scum.

Here's where it should stand for the rest of you (if the masons are innocent):
you know that if there are two scum left, big_k is one of them.
you know that if there is one scum left, it's me or big_k.

I

doubt

Argoti's playing us, but why even consider taking that chance?

[MeMe]

Thoth - I thought the game was great...the only necessary improvement, in my opinion, would have been to reduce the masons by one -- that was just a huge chunk of cleared people. Even if they hadn't found each other immediately -- after reading the roles, I see that mlaker's story on day 1 made it impossible for the other masons not to know who to target.

It was bad luck for the mafia that Maverick lurked his way into the noose day 1. If he'd participated and put up a halfway decent defense the game would have been far different.

This was an extremely frustrating game for me...but, frankly, those wind up being the games I enjoy the most. I thought and talked about this game constantly at home. And I really thought there was a chance we had two mafia left because the town seemed so strong -- but, in retrospect, things would have been fairly even if Maverick had worked harder.

Thanks, Thoth!

[MeMe]

You were right to suspect me - like I said earlier, I was more frustrated during this game than in any other I've

ever

played so I understand that I ended up making myself a red herring.

And regarding the guilty result: I seriously considered claiming that I got "innocent" again -- but I thought that I'd just tell the truth and hang the game on logic. I was pretty upset when gashly got replaced because that was something I hadn't counted on...a brand-new player going through the old stuff where I freaked out! If she'd been replaced prior to me giving my result on big_k, I think I would have definitely kept it to myself.

[MeMe]

Nope. In my role PM I was called "Newbie Cop."

[MeMe]

Arrrrggggghhhhhh!

[MeMe]

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