Mini 1953: XP Mafia (Game Over)

[mastina]

I'm continuing to play this game no matter what, but I'll say the same thing here I said to the mod: give me a few days leniency here, for ~reasons~.

[mastina]

Posting here again to say to give a little more time for things to properly resolve.

[mastina]

Okay, so the mafia kill failed, yes? yurkin effectively suicide-bombed Ghostlin? (Alisae would be screaming with rage at not landing the role. )

In that case:
VOTE: Assemblerotws.

CLAIM: Roleblocker. Last night, we blocked Assemblerotws.

(Our block also blocks farming btw.)
We heavily hinted at our role D1, and we've been trying to find the mafia performing the nightkill every time.
We mostly talked about our targets in our chat but have some record of why we blocked who we did each night in our hydra PT.

N1 we blocked Vijarada.
N2 we blocked EeveeLution Army.
And N3 it was Assemblerotws.

Basically, N1 Vijarada was our common scumread. JaeReed originally townread Vijarada for some content...which it turned out, didn't actually exist. When they realized that, they agreed with my scumread there.
N2, we hunted off of a block wagon (I believe the D1 one?). Our options were narrowed down to EeveeLution Army or Assemblerotws. EeveeLution Army claimed a loss in XP, which I felt was loosely indicative of town when combined with the lack of a stopped nightkill. But I don't see Assembler claiming a loss of XP (it's not so much a loss of XP as much as it is a lack of gaining XP but EeveeLution Army could easily make that mistake), nor did I see Assemblerotws claim to have his action fail. His first post of the day, 1198, makes no mention of anything of the sort. Except noting that yurkin died suicide bombing Ghostlin.

Basically, yes. Deja vu. I mentioned Fountain of Souls early on for DAMN fucking good reason.
In that I've been searching for that roleblocker guilty ALL FUCKING GAME LONG. And now I finally have it.

[mastina]

Still think that gerry's the scumbuddy btw.
But you lynch the roleblock guilty BEFORE thinking about lynching anyone else. Even if they are obvscum. (gerry's due for another blocking anyway.)

[mastina]

oh i guess n1 and n2 wouldnt make much sense, but why did you choose to block assemble over me?

My head's still not fucking in the game because this is supposed to be a TWO-headed game, not one, and my other head is still not here yet. I couldn't exactly coordinate. I couldn't go over actions with them. I couldn't hash out our actions. So I just defaulted to doing the other of the two we hadn't done before without thinking much.

But it's a good fucking thing I did.

Because this is a pretty definitive guilty when mixed in with Assemblerotws's lack of a claim to have been blocked. That's indicative of it having happened in the mafia PT most likely.

And you defending the slot makes me feel ten times better about this being a legit guilty, so thanks.

[mastina]

(Btw I'm pretty sure I don't want to claim this extra part but there's more to our role than just the blocking and that extra is something which makes me even MORE confident in the block-guilty.)

[mastina]

Oh and btw: While Loyal is absolutely the last modifier you want to give a fucking roleblocker, overall, +EV for the town as a whole for that one, so:
VOTE: Loyal.

[mastina]

Btw: I'd be willing to say confidently that Maki, Screenplay, and havingfitz are all town here.
dreal's town, albeit for other reasons instead.
EeveeLution Army's loosely at nulltown.
Vaxkiller loosely nullscum.
With gerryoat as hardscum and Assemblerotws as literally-guiltied scum.

[mastina]

Tonight we'll be blocking gerry regardless of the lynch unless said lynch were to be gerry btw.

[mastina]

I'd LIKE to say the no kill is a guilty on gerry.
But I actually have good reason off of my role to know I didn't stop a kill.

Butyeah I do think that hammer was prolly scum.
I never got a chance to read Assemblerotws's claim or get the chance to unvote; the quicklynch happened before we could work anything else.
I want to take time before voting though. I'm going to vote either gerry or Eevee pretty sure.

[mastina]

Actually, what we do today is we plan.

We have 8 alive. Worst-case scenario, we get 6 alive tomorrow with two scum--mylo.

So what I'd like:
-Massclaim, preferably with a set order. Include ALL actions over the course of the game. We will have a set order (gimme a day to figure it out) rather than just popcorning, because I feel we have the game in a near-lockdown if we do this right.
-We coordinate actions, accommodating both for a town lynch and a scum lynch.
-If the worst-case scenario comes true, then tomorrow is 6p mylo. We reveal results of actions, coordinate once more, and use a BLOCK instead of a lynch.
*We continue doing this until we have a nightkill. That being, we repeat the cycle of coordinating actions and revealing them. That way, when something diverges from the status quo (i.e., we have a kill), we have the data from all prior days to help narrow down in on the possibilities.
*And from there we lynch with probably a set idea of scum, both days.
-If we don't have the worst-case scenario, if we have six alive and only one scum, we POE the shit out of the game. We use a lynch.
*This brings us to either four or five.
~If five, we lynch again.
~If four, we BLOCK. And continue the block-then-claim strategy until it is broken.

This is a loose plan.

I would normally talk this over with Jae but since I can't do that at the moment, well, we'll have to make do.
Flaws? Questions? We should be talking this out.

(That being said, when all is said and done I'd prefer to lynch/block gerry and Eeevee.)

[mastina]

Actually, what we do today is we plan.

We have 8 alive. Worst-case scenario, we get 6 alive tomorrow with two scum--mylo.

So what I'd like:
-Massclaim, preferably with a set order. Include ALL actions over the course of the game. We will have a set order (gimme a day to figure it out) rather than just popcorning, because I feel we have the game in a near-lockdown if we do this right.
-We coordinate actions, accommodating both for a town lynch and a scum lynch.
-If the worst-case scenario comes true, then tomorrow is 6p mylo. We reveal results of actions, coordinate once more, and use a BLOCK instead of a lynch.
*We continue doing this until we have a nightkill. That being, we repeat the cycle of coordinating actions and revealing them. That way, when something diverges from the status quo (i.e., we have a kill), we have the data from all prior days to help narrow down in on the possibilities.
*And from there we lynch with probably a set idea of scum, both days.
-If we don't have the worst-case scenario, if we have six alive and only one scum, we POE the shit out of the game. We use a lynch.
*This brings us to either four or five.
~If five, we lynch again.
~If four, we BLOCK. And continue the block-then-claim strategy until it is broken.

This is a loose plan.

I would normally talk this over with Jae but since I can't do that at the moment, well, we'll have to make do.
Flaws? Questions? We should be talking this out.

(That being said, when all is said and done I'd prefer to lynch/block gerry and Eeevee.)

Quoting this because it's important enough to be on the pagetop.

[mastina]

My claim order at this stage would be something like:
gerryoat

EeveeLution Army

Vaxkiller (fullclaim)

Screenplay
dreal
havingfitz

Maki
mastina

...However, this is rather flexible past a certain point. (See also the tiers. Maki should claim near-last; I should claim near-last; gerryoat should claim first; EeeveeLution Army should claim early; Vaxkiller should claim early. Screenplay, dreal, and havingfitz the order for me is highly subject to peer feedback--I'm quite willing to have them higher.)

[mastina]

I realize that this is bad timing given that I am in a leadership position of sorts, but it is what it is. Phoneposting to say that my power is out. No power, no internet, thus: vla.

[mastina]

btw im VT lol. thats why i didnt give af after i got blocked.

sounding to me like dunn+gerry have discussed some things over Night

This is who you all sheeped

Could quote any number of posts after you were blocked which say otherwise.

I buy you being vanilla!
I don't buy you being town!

[mastina]

aye I had gerry for town

YOU HAVE PUSHED HIM AS SCUM FOR MOST OF THE GAME.
AND THAT READ IS GOOD.
BAD DREAL.
BAD.

[mastina]

aye I had gerry for town
my scumpool is
mastina
eevee
vax
fitz

take out vax and add srceen and we are talking

"Take out the one person who frankly has a significant chance of being scum and add in a person with nigh-zilch reason and your reads become something worth keeping in my pocket".

[mastina]

Why WHY the fuck did you guys lynch a bodygaurd. WHos idea was that?

This in particular reads as fake.

[mastina]

Now im a PGO

[mastina]

We should prob do the claiming thing before lynching her, no? that way people can be held accountable for.

gerry's a scumfuck sure but he is at least raising a valid point. You don't half-ass a massclaim. You start, you finish, period.
gerry's claimed, although I would prefer a full record of actions.
Eevee's claimed, although I would prefer a full record of actions.
Vaxkiller needs to fullclaim, with a full record of actions.
Screenplay, dreal, and havingfitz need to fullclaim with a full record of actions.
Maki will need to fullclaim with a full record of actions, but only after all the above.
And similarly so for me.

These are things which cannot be done before a lynch.

Also while I do in fact hold great suspicion on Eevee it is viable Eevee is town especially if Vaxkiller is scum.
Still tho. My preferred lynch is gerryoat.
Because while Eevee could be scum. And Vaxkiller could be scum. gerryoat just IS scum.

[mastina]

Did you upgrade your ability from basic roleblocker to something special roleblocker?

My roleblocker was never just a roleblock. But yes, I am upgraded now. To what, I will only say when it is my turn in the massclaim, thankyouverymuch.

I'm VT upgraded to 1 shot BP, no idea if its still there.

[mastina]

screen trying to doge the claim is terribad too lol

Screen should claim since it is in fact his turn to claim if he has not, however, that does not a scum make least of all with this accusation coming from you.

[mastina]

You need all my actions as well?

That is in fact part of MASSclaiming, yes. Role AND actions. Such that there's no room for ambiguity later-on.

[mastina]

VOTE: Maki lal

Not happening, mfriend.
Now, both you and dreal need to claim. Order honestly doesn't matter. I'm not fullclaiming until both of you do, preferably also with your night actions. Because the Maki lynch is bad and I'm beginning to suspect the Eevee lynch might be bad, too.

[mastina]

I swear you're more dense here then on our homesite

(He's not he's just scum.)

[mastina]

Someone want to use that info to Poe?

That's more or less my plan. I'm gonna compile things and claim and see if I can coordinate here.

vax, do you really think maf has a goon idgi. we have too much power for maf to have a goon imo. even an up-gradable one.

Actually if anything, the opposite: we have too little to have anything BUT a goon, basically.

[mastina]

gerryoat:

Vanilla. Blocked D1 (0 XP, 0 XP N1/D2). Trained N2 (1 XP D3), N3 (2 XP D4), and N4 (blocked; remains at 2 XP D5).
This is what I should see.
This is not what gerry claimed in 1598. (As if we needed more reason for him to be scum.) Unless I made a mistake.

EeveeLution Army:

essentially-fragile (fails if targeted, losing role) weak hider-->PGO (this is all sorts of ). Trained N1 (2 XP D2), N2 (blocked; remained at 2 XP D3), and N3 (3 XP D4). Upgraded last night and is now at 0 XP.

The above two make the most sense for a lack of a kill.

Vaxkiller

: Vanilla-->1x Bulletproof. Trained N1 (2 XP D2) and N2 (3 XP D3). Upgraded D3. Trained N3 (1 XP D4). Rolecopped N4 (0 XP). Another possible scum, but less likely; the timing makes less sense.

havingfitz:

Vanilla-->???, "won't know until tonight". ??? N1. (1-or-2 XP D2). Rolecopped Maki N2 (0-or-1 XP D3), Result: ???. ??? N3. (0, 1, or 2 XP D4.) ??? N4. (0, 1, 2, or 3 XP D5.) Claims to have upgraded, back to 0 XP. This would PRESUMABLY mean the nightly-??? are trainings. However, this claim is all sorts of to me given the number of question marks and ambiguity. It's, in a word, "convenient". Also possible scum, though not as likely as gerry or Eevee would be.

Vijarada/Srceenplay:

Tracker. Tracked Ghostlin N1 (blocked; 1 XP D2). Blocked D2 (0 XP, 0 XP N2/D3). Tracked Maki N3. (Result: ???) Tracked Maki N4 (Maki went nowhere). Technically speaking, could be scum, although I'd consider it unlikely.

drealmerz7:

Auto-farmer. 2 XP D2. 3 XP D3, upgraded. D3, blocked. 0 XP. D4, gave XP to Maki and had one himself. So, D5, 0 XP.

Technically speaking

, viable as a killer, but I really don't think dreal's scum here.

Maki Harukawa:

Vanilla-->1x Macho Modified Friendly Neighbor/Messenger/Fruit Vendor/Neighborizer. ??? N1. ??? N2. Upgrade N3? (If not, then D4.) Message to gerry N4. ??? XP D5. (Maki, I believe you're town so it's not super-critical but for accountability purposes you should PROBABLY fill in the gaps there.)

...Well. This is less helpful than I thought. We don't have any conftown from it. We do have potentially-confscum in the form of gerry's claim not matching what he SHOULD have, but we don't have anything NEW, is what I mean.

But ANYWAY.
My contribution:
My roleblocker has a rather linear upgrade.
It was never just a roleblock.
When I roleblock someone who is training, I gain the XP that they would. N1 we blocked Vijarada/Screenplay. N2, EeveeLution Army.
We had 1 XP D1. 2 XP D2. 3 XP D3. I was under the mistaken impression that upon getting 3 XP players would automatically upgrade (plus there was the issue of the slot switch when Something_smart was sending things exclusively to our hydra so I didn't get to see him telling me otherwise until much later), so it wasn't until N3 that I upgraded. (I was told that I could both block and action.)

N3, I blocked Assembler. I did NOT get XP, so I knew that Assembler had used an action that night. (Because if he had trained, then I would have received his XP.) My role got upgraded--now, when I block someone, I also learn exactly what action(s) I am blocking. As a result, my roleblock is now also a confirmed follower.

N4, I blocked gerry from training. I also received 1 XP.

Assembler's upgrade was also reasonably linear as well, which is why I find Eevee's claim so suspicious. dreal's role upgraded linearly: from earning XP for just himself to now also granting it to others. Assembler's role upgraded linearly, from a bodyguard to a doctor protection. Heck, even yurkin's upgraded role was related to their base role. yurkin gained the ability to kill a player and to kill themselves in the process; yurkin's role was disabling the lynch and the upgrade 1: allowed for a town-controlled kill to make up for it while 2: also allowing for a method to rid the town of the restriction without the need for the mafia nightkill. My role goes from the roleblock + getting blocked XP to blocking while seeing what I'm blocked.

All of these upgrades make sense. All of these upgrades "fit". All of these upgrades are upgrades which have logic and reasoning to them.

What the fuck is the logic behind a weak hider with multiple failure conditions upgrading into a PGO? It turns an active role into a passive role; it turns an investigative into a killing; it is two completely and entirely different things and that's why it reeks of bullshit to me.

Unless I'm missing anything, I think that we should be lynching in gerry/Eevee.
gerry for the inconsistency, Eevee for the utter dissonance with the setup.
But really pretty sure that's the scumteam regardless of order.

The Eevee wagon is larger, though, so:
VOTE: EeveeLution Army.

EeveeLution Army is at L-1

.
I'm comfortable with this lynch now that we have all the information we REALLY need.

[mastina]

Checking with the mod now.
I blocked havingfiz, but I neither gained XP nor received a message indicating the type of action havingfitz would use last night--which makes no sense. If havingfiz had trained, I'd have gained XP and seen the train; if havingfitz used any action, I should have seen what type of action it was I blocked.

On that note...

Zzzzzz
I'm assuming no results of interest given the silence? Surprised an autofarmer was the nk over a roleblocker and tracker.
VOTE: No lynch

This is the time where a town player SHOULD have been claiming.
You got away with not claiming yesterday off of a claim that you were upgraded and wouldn't know until night had started.
Yeah, well.
Night started. And has ended. So you should be claiming what your role is.

I honestly don't think it exists.

[mastina]

We're not nling today I have enough for a vig so if you trust masina and think they're town we can lynch and I vig someone

Lynch one of havingfitz/gerry, vig the other, and I will block an unannounced third between Screenplay/Vaxkiller/the vig target. (In that, I don't tell the mafia who to send for the kill.)

This should account for basically every possibility, and even if it doesn't, worst case scenario is that we get a 3p lylo, yes?

[mastina]

I feel like the scum are headed for a perfect win here.

Yeah that's what happens when you leave gerryoat alive for the whole fucking game.
In spite of us fucking telling you to lynch him since day fucking one.

For that matter, I also was pretty damn sure Ghostlin was scum, too.

Okay admittedly.
Not having a lynch on D1, D2, or D3 gives an excuse until D4 but past that, not as much.

[mastina]

Srceen...did you track anyone?

I wasn’t able to track anyone to the kill

This is a time of full disclosure. After havingfiz claims, you claim your track. You don't get away with vague generic statements which give wiggle room.

[mastina]

I tr what jae head did this game and it matches with there town meta more then I town mastina herself

You'd be townreading me more if I still had Jae to bounce things off of. I signed up to be a fucking hydra this game, not to play it solo. That's a damn big difference and yes it absofuckinglutely does impact the way I've played. Having someone to be your sounding board is just something that is just...something which is irreplaceable.

It completes me. Without it, my play is absent. Without it, my play is...well. Like this. This game was always meant to be more Jae's than mine. We were to collaborate, corroborate, we were to work together as equals, invested about the same for the first time ever, but of the two Jae is who I trusted more to take point. Jae was the player we SHOULD have been. But since I can't be Jae you're gonna have to stick with me. My alignment didn't change upon Jae being robbed from me. Simply my motivation.

So you have the choice between Jae playing an exceptional scumgame with me playing a less-than-stellar scumgame...or Jae being town as per the norm, playing a standard (well I'd argue above standard) game, with me playing just about my normal level of townplay, for better or worse. (Some better, some worse.)

I'm not gonna go tell you which to choose, though obviously I have my own opinion on the matter RE: the idea I'd ever play this sub-optimally as scum.

[mastina]

Why do you trust me so much mastina?

Because this is your towngame, through and through. It's something I kinda sorta don't want to explain the details of. But it's not a read I'm ever getting paranoid of. It's not a read I'm ever second-guessing. I'd have to check the PT to be sure but I'm fairly certain that you were Jae's strongest townread--and that is a read I would fucking trust above all others because I trust JaeReed since Jae is a better scumhunter than I am especially when it comes to players like you.

Yet even if I didn't have faith in Jae, I'd hold my own townread on you. Jae's reasoning differs slightly from my own, but we have the same basic bandwidth, same basic wavelength, which describes how we think, we operate, in that we see much the same things and I don't need Jae to tell me about them; I saw them myself. Every step of the way and continuing even now. This is you as town. It's not you as scum.

More than that.
Even if I didn't have all of that off of play.
I have your roleclaim. You have claimed to be conftown, and that's not something I see you faking. gerryoat is a scumfuck, yes, but he's not going to lie about something like this. Frankly, this might sound insulting and for that I apologize, but simply put a scumteam of gerryoat-Maki isn't smart enough to think up a risky clear like that. So the clear is real.

More than that.
More than the claim.
There's also the fact that basically all the dead town who died via nightkill had to have trusted you. (Well, aside from maybe Ginngie.) Dunnstral sent XP to SOMEONE, and nobody's claimed it...except for you. Nobody counterclaimed, you claimed it, that means you received it (or your scumbuddy did but I find that unlikely since lol if Dunnstral sent XP to gerryoat which is something I don't ever see happening especially given I seem to recall that Dunn hard-scumread gerry). And THEN, same thing for last night. dreal, the nightkill, had to have trusted you to be town, because he sent to you not once but TWICE.

NKA strongly suggests town.
Play strongly suggests town.
Role strongly suggests town.

You have every reason to be town and if you're not then frankly you've earned the win and I'll eat the loss right here and now.

[mastina]

I loyal racked Mastina last night.
It felt like a value track. If she was killed I would know who do the kill.
I had one xp available and decided to use it on loyal to get 100% confirmation on Mastina.

And what, exactly, was the result you received?

[mastina]

OH BABY

Wait. The mod got back to me. They forgot to send me the action.

And I blocked an investigative action.

Is it possible I was redirected into blocking Screen?

I need to ask a few more questions.

[mastina]

Like.
My role does not tell me "you blocked playername from using this action last night".
It specifies "you blocked this action last night".

I need to ask a few questions to get clarification because there's a chance Screenplay isn't scum here. If Screenplay is town, then lynching me and vigging Screenplay (especially with a redirector in play) is literally game over. Overkill, in fact. (Mafia kill + Maki misvig = 3 alive, two of them mafiates.)

[mastina]

Convenient

But the fucking truth. Something_smart is online literally right now and the moment he posts a votecount (which I assume will happen soon enough) it will prove that he was online and sent me the PM.

[mastina]

No one has implied any shenanigans with night actions yet but now we are to entertain the idea? It sounds like a last ditch effort.

Who's to say there haven't been shenanigans with night actions? We've had no less than three players who were PRs with actions that were traceable die during the night. Each of them could have had different original targets and we'd be none the wiser. For that matter--who's to say that the action was possible from the get-go? It very well could be a mafia upgrade.

You say last-ditch effort.
I say having an interest in not fucking letting scum trounce the town.
So yes.
Absolutely.
We entertain the idea.

Redirector. Busdriver. Fuck, Nexus is fully possible too.

If I were scum, then I'd use my towncred to force a lynch through on you and then just block Maki during the night where she'd vig me. Yeah, that'd make me confscum D7, but it'd position my partner in a position to win the game D8.
But I'm NOT scum.

So instead of that. I am entertaining the idea of you being town. Because if you're town. This is absolutely not something you want to do.

[mastina]

Occam‘s razor

Yeah! Simplest scenario is for me as scum to use my towncred to push the 1v1 through on you, then block Maki, then eat the lynch, to set my partner up in a mylo/lylo. That's the simplest scenario for my play as scum.

Yet it doesn't exist.

Because I'm not fucking scum. Instead, you're suggesting the idea that I want to keep a known investigative alive for some ~mysterious~ reason, to push a lynch elsewhere which could VERY EASILY BE ON MY SCUMBUDDY if things went south (speaking of which, who WOULD be my scumbuddy? There isn't anyone because I don't fucking have one), for...reasons. I don't even get that train of thought, maybe you'd like to explain it for me because I don't get it thanks to just how much of a violation of Occam's Razor it is.

The simplest solution is in fact the correct one.
And the situation simplest which you have off of my own play and own contribution.
Is that I am town.
Who doesn't know what the fuck happened, but is trying to figure it out.

[mastina]

Why the fcuk did you block me mastina?

Because I made it explicit: I don't trust you. I haven't trusted you and I still don't trust you. I think you're scum.

Why are you still alive?

Jae isn't in the hydra anymore. That alone is reason enough for me to still be alive. It is the force of NoticeMeSenpai combined which makes us a worthy nightkill. Our role in of itself isn't deadly while there are still two scum alive. You'd have a point if there were only one alive, or if there were no better kills. But there's always been someone better to kill. This is a no shit moment. There's also the fact that what I have done has given visible harm and yet my better aspects haven't been as visible...making me a viable mislynch.

Like right fucking now.

My upgrade is I can target a player and if I'm aligned with that player and that player dies...their ability replaces mine. I.e. I get their ability.

[mastina]

Vaxkiller, Maki, I swear to god if you vote me and allow gerryfuckingoat to lolhammer me you absolutely deserve the loss coming your way.

I'm pretty sure right now the scumteam really is just havingfitz-gerryoat.
fitz's hop-on is incredibly opportunistic-as-fuck.

And the moment gerry comes on, he will do the same.
I 100% guarantee it.

And depending on the nature of the redirection or busdrive.
That may be a guaranteed game over if they can stop the vig from hitting scum.

You need to trust me here.
This is not a fucking guilty.
I don't react this way to a guilty when I'm in the position I am.

[mastina]

This is literally a word-for-word repeat of Fountain.
I have the same fucking roleblocker role.
Screenplay has the same fucking "guilty" on my slot that I had on Fountain which later led to my moronic mislynch albeit indirectly.
Up to and including.
A town player eating it up and voting, placing me near the lynch.

With the scum laughing their asses off.
And joining right in.
Knowing they are eliminating singlehandedly the largest threat to their team.

[mastina]

Like.
Tell me.

Really fucking tell me.

Who is my scumbuddy?

Answer that fucking question.
Iso us.
Iso every player's interactions with us.

And tell me.
Who the fuck.
Fits even remotely.
As being a scumbuddy.

There aren't any for DAMN fucking good reason: because I'm not actually fucking scum.

[mastina]

I made this exact same point in Fountain and I can make it again here. If you can't name a scumbuddy for me, it's because none exists.
If I look like scum from a role.

Fuck role.
Play > Role, 100% of the time.

Does my play.
Actually fucking look.
Like it is scum.

Ask that.

Is my play.
Scumplay.

If so, then you should have a narrative. You should be able to tell me, start to finish, what my scum strategy entailed, because there is always a story to my scumgames.
If you can't find one it's because it doesn't fucking exist.

[mastina]

Like.
This bullshit is something where I fucking KNOW.
You'll just think.
"I don't get it, but I'll figure it out after you flip I'm sure. I can't see it now but I WILL."
As if it doesn't make sense but having me flip would suddenly magically make it make sense.

Except that's a work of fucking fiction and you damn well fucking KNOW it. If you think otherwise, you're just lying to yourself. If you think that you'll learn anything new after I'm dead, then you're not thinking clearly. Because everything you have now is all you're going to get.

If I am scum, then you can tell me what is scum just as much when I'm alive as when I'm dead.
But because I'm not scum, then you can't tell me what is scum and certainly won't when I'm dead no thanks to the inbound scum win if nothing else.

If you don't fucking think that I am scum by play.
If you don't fucking think that me being scum makes sense by play.
If you don't fucking think that I have any viable scumbuddies.

It's because I'm not actually fucking scum.
No matter what the roles may imply.

[mastina]

Fuck me, Something_smart just refused to answer my questions RE: redirector/busdriver/roleblocker interactions. (His exact words are more or less "that's not public info" which is bullshit since I fucking asked him in private and it's related to MY OWN FUCKING ROLE.) I'll need to find a more creative way to get him to divulge the info.

[mastina]

mastina (2)- Srceenplay, havingfitz
Not voting (4)- mastina

This alone should tell the whole fucking story.

If I were scum, this would be

the other way around

, more or less.

This is mylo.
I am a 100% confirmed roleblocker. This is proven and verified by no less than three people if not more (too lazy to look up the exact number of people who vouched for it).

I don't even need to set my partner up for a tomorrow as scum.

I have more towncred than Screenplay does. I'd just push a mislynch on him through.
That brings us down to five during the night. With two scum alive. Maki vigs me, right? Except I fucking block her. So her shot fails. Still five alive...
...And then scum kill a player, bringing it down to four. Two scum, two town, scum endgame town.

If I were scum.
I would fucking WELCOME the 1v1. I'd fucking ENCOURAGE it. Because I would fucking WIN the 1v1 fight. I would, hands-down, unambiguously, come out the winner. Because Screenplay can't out-argue me in any world where I put in serious time and effort to get him lynched. Especially since, as scum, I'd have a scumbuddy backing me.

As scum, me plus my scumbuddy is two. Maki has already indicated that I am more town than Screenplay, and thus, in a 1v1 between us, she'd support me. That leaves me only needing one other town player in order to get a mislynch on Screenplay and end the fucking game in a guaranteed scum win. All I'd fucking need. As scum. Is that simple thing. Which is realistically attainable.

But I'm not scum.
So instead, you've got Screenplay with a "guilty" on me.
And you've got havingfitz having already planned to have hopped onto me and doing so when the opportunity arose.

This literally is as clear as fucking day.

[mastina]

And Screenplay, you can see my point fucking proven the moment gerryoat comes him. He'll go all "lol" and then vote me, leaving it at just that, nothing more. No thoughts, no nothing, just a vote on me opportunistically.
Vaxkiller is probably town but if Vaxkiller impulsively votes me without fucking reading--something he is very likely to do--then if he hammers, bam, that's it; if he votes without unvoting before gerry comes in, then gerry's the hammer and same fucking result.

I mean I can at least hope that Vaxkiller reads the damn game before throwing down a game-losing vote.
But I'm not optimistic.

So if you leave your vote out on me.
You have only yourself to fucking blame after the inevitable quicklynch and following scum win.

[mastina]

Okay. So. I did get SOME information from the mod, which loosely implies that redirectors would hold priority over me and confirms that busdrivers if self-busdriving would.

Basically, I asked if I blocked REDIRECTOR, and REDIRECTOR redirected me, who'd have priority--he gave a longwinded answer which boils down to "I try to be as fair as I can but in this case I can't provide an answer"...
...HOWEVER.

I ALSO asked another question which revealed more than he probably meant to.
I asked, "Assuming a busdriver can self-busdrive, if I blocked BUSDRIVER, and BUSDRIVER busdrove BUSDRIVER<->OTHERPLAYER, who'd have priority?"

THAT, I got an answer for: the busdriver.
The thing that reveals though, is that redirectors would also have priority over me. Because busdrives are classified as redirection-type actions. On Natural Action Resolution, they are classified as the same role type, the same role action. In short, they hold the same level of priority...so if a BUSDRIVE trumps me...so does a redirector.

The mod basically just confirmed to me that I was fucking redirected. (Or busdriven, butstill.)

[mastina]

God I love being intimately familiar with mechanics and interactions to a level even the mods aren't. When I said I'd need to take another approach to get the info but I'd get the info, I meant it.

Something_smart couldn't have known about that fault in his answer when he provided it, but I did, which is why I asked in the first place. Technically speaking, I should also ask about Nexuses, but now that I've done this I'm expecting to be stonewalled and even if Something_smart's process doesn't change I'm not quite sure how to use my own role as a way to get an answer on how a Nexus would work. (I.e., randomized; predefined target with set interactions e.g. "the player alive directly above you"; selected by the Nexus player. This absolutely makes a difference but I don't know how to get an answer there.)

[mastina]

we have confirmed mafia. why would you unvote?

Remind me when I get the chance to quote how this is verbatim gerry from Fountain after the "guilty" on me that game. (Right now the thread's moving so quickly that I don't have the chance to track it down.)

[mastina]

wait so they could also redirect my vig shot?

Or busdrive, but yes.
And that'd be assuming you'd even shoot scum in the first place. If you shot Screenplay after mislynching me, there'd be no need for them to even DO that because it'd be you shooting town and doing their dirty work for them.

[mastina]

Screen would you lynch fitz?

I would. Not my first choice, but the choice which makes the most sense, yes.

[mastina]

Mod messaged me. My pm last night is identical to the N1 sent to this slot. I don’t know for sure what a not loyal result would look like.

The design of loyal is to intentionally be identical to other forms of failure. Ascetic? No Result. Roleblocked? No result. Target rolestopped? No result. Target commuted? No result. Target hid? No result unless for some ungodly reason the tracker can track the hider. Loyal on scum? No result. They all should give identical readings. Ambiguity is inherent in the system for flexibility. It's a feature, not a flaw, so yes. A loyal result is identical to a roleblocked result and there'd be no way to tell the difference.

However, you did in fact get roleblocked.

[mastina]

mastina are we playing WWE or what

If by that, you mean this?
VOTE: havingfitz.
Then yes. I'm all for a turnaround this game in our favor. Turn the tables on the scum and get locktown from it.

[mastina]

Btw I realize this is an uphill battle.
But if we want to actually lynch scum.
We need it to be all four town.

I have the town pegged.
Maki is town.
Screenplay is town.
Vaxkiller is town.

But havingfitz/gerryoat won't vote themselves or each other. So in order to have a scum lynch. We need every town player to vote together.

I've got all the answers in the game.
I just need to prove them to you.

[mastina]

So essentially Srceenplay is a counterclaim to you. If he is town and telling the truth then you are scum. If you are town then he is lying scum. Is this not accurate?

Screenplay

appears

to be a counterclaim to me. But that's the thing. You're scum setting up a 1v1 between town. You're insisting that it's cut-and-dry, unambiguous, that one of us being town means the other is scum.

Yet that's not the case.
And the ones pushing it are the ACTUAL scum.

[mastina]

Yet you skip past gerryoat (who you still suspect today) and decide to block the guy getting a new unknown upgrade.

Yes. Exactly. Because I didn't fucking trust your sketchy-as-hell claim. gerryoat is scum, but a known entity more or less. The earliest he could upgrade would be today in the best of scenarios by my math. He's also been blocked multiple times in multiple ways. FURTHERMORE. I had also made it known that gerry was someone I was heavily considering for the block, where my thoughts were stated as "block one, lynch the other". (Or rather, lynch one, block the other.) It was for that very reason that I decided to block you. I intend to, 100%, unambiguously, regardless of your flip, block gerryoat tonight. (And we can work around whatever we have.) But the block on you, I stand by 100%. Especially if as I suspect. You are in fact the source of the redirection mechanic.

Worth risking a block on me than on the next most powerful PR in the game next to your claimed one (tracker).

If I had blocked Screenplay, I would have fucking announced blocking Screenplay. In fact, had Eevee flipped scum, this was actually my plan. I was intending to block Screenplay as a test to his claim because I didn't think his claim was really proven and him claiming a no result with two dead scum would establish beyond any shadow of a doubt he was town doubly so, by having him truthfully claim his result and having him be confirmed not a killer.

But EeveeLution Army

didn't

flip scum, so I was forced to reevaluate. And my first thought went to all the sketchy-as-hell aspects of your claim, so instead of blocking Screenplay I fucking blocked you, because of twofold reasons: roleblocking you would serve as a rolecop of sorts in that I'd get your action type via the follower aspect of my upgraded role and thus inform me of what you are, yet it would ALSO prevent a scum you from pulling any shenanigans, exactly what I suspect has in fact happened.

No way scum leaves a roleblocker AND a tracker alive over a fcuking autofarmer.

Unless, of course. They have...oh. Yaknow. A fucking method of countering those powers. Which. Y'know. A redirection-role accomplishes. You're basically fucking proving my point that I'm town. You're literally writing the case for me. The fact that scum left us both alive is proof we're town AND that scum had a way of foiling us.

[mastina]

The fact that scum left us both alive is proof we're town

Yes. Because if one of us were scum, then we'd kill the other in order to appear town and get the greatest threat to us out of the way.

A scum-Screenplay can't afford to be roleblocked by me.
A scum-mastina can't afford to be tracked by Screenplay.

If either of us were scum, we'd have motivation to kill the other, to appear town and to remove the greatest threat to us.
dreal being killed is proof that the scum were instead looking to set a situation up where the town would do their dirty work for them.

That being.
Mislynch one, and hand scum the win when the other would be framed.

They couldn't account for Maki having a vig, but they wouldn't need to. This is mylo. Even without a Maki vig, they mislynch town and are capable of killing, they win. Even if not. Even if they can't use XP to kill thus placing the game in 5p lylo tomorrow. It being a "1v1" with one flipped town. They simply mislynch the other, and then. BAM. Scum win.

So yes.

The very thing you are using as evidence of me being scum is proof that I am town.

[mastina]

I need to read this sober tomorrow but my intention is to vote for mastina.

Then we cannot win because if you do then at best we get a stalemate.

[mastina]

I'm at work phone posting, so it's impossible for me to respond to content properly at the moment, HOWEVER, I absolutely need to say this:

Havingfitz and gerryoat have painfully, PAINFULLY obviously revealed that they are scum. I can't give you a proper case on my phone in a limited time window, so know that this is the incomplete version, but.

Both of them by no coincidence have taken the same stance: "Lol look at that bus vote, mastina is scum with you".

Both of them have FURTHER taken the same fucking stance on the day. They have urged you to vote. They have urged you to rush the day. They have told you to end it. They don't want you to have the time to actually fucking THINK. And the reason why is obvious:

They know that if you actually stopped to fucking think, that you'd realize that I make no sense as scum. They want to shut down critical thinking. They are in a rush. And you should be asking …
…Why?

So if you are so impatient that you can't fucking wait for me to come home. If you just go "LOL GUILTY MUST BE SCUM" without actually evaluating the fucking circumstances to see if the 'guilty' actually fucking fits. Then frankly you deserve the loss and will receive a HARSH reality lesson in why you pay attention to the fucking play and take your fucking time.

There is NO fucking good reason to lynch me before I can show you the details behind why Gerry and havinggitz are blatantly scumfucks. The difference between what they're doing and what town players are doing is the difference between night and fucking day.

[mastina]

What time do you plan to post?

Starting CIRCA 8:00 PM PST. (It's not an exact figure because the time I start posting depends on a few factors, including: when I finish, drive time, food availability when I get home, and computer access in that if a family member is using the computer obviously I cannot. However, it will be in that general range and this game will be my first priority.) For reference, it's currently 3:17 PM PST, so that means APPROXIMATELY five hours from now.

[mastina]

Alright, I'm here now, but fair warning: I forgot to account for one factor in my calculations--fatigue. Right now, I'm exhausted. I'll be in the game right now, but if it gets to the point where I'm tiredposting, I'll need to stop, then take a nap before resuming. (What's tiredposting? Think drunkposting, only instead of using alcohol to achieve, using pure sheer extreme enervation. The effects are basically that I become far more incoherent than normal and my proper typing skills I'm so proud of go out the window. Typos, grammatical errors, spelling mistakes, and so on and so forth with me sometimes blatantly using the wrong word and mangling things so badly that you can only barely follow along with what I said. Maki's seen it before so she can vouch for it being something that, while hilarious, is not exactly productive for me posting.)

Still though. I'm here right now. My first priority is to address posts made since yesterday. From there, I'll show you something absolutely

fascinating

about havingfitz. The short version is, he's highly hypocritical, doing the very thing he is attempting to frame me for. The detailed version will come as soon as I can get to it.

[mastina]

its literally auto win lol. lynch mastina. shoot fitz. if game doesnt end, lynch vax.

its literally auto win lol. lynch mastina. shoot fitz. if game doesnt end, lynch vax.

No...fitz is town. If town can shoot they need to shoot elsewhere. Someone can shoot you. You haven't done shit and have been under enough suspicions.

GERRYOAT: "Let's lynch mastina, and shoot havingfitz!"
HAVINGFITZ: "No, let's lynch mastina, and shoot gerryoat!"

This is pretty unambiguously scum distancing with a vie for the win right here. If either were town, they would have pause about a scum player being so adamant about their scumbuddy being scum. They would wonder if that were really the case. They would have some level of doubt that the main person backing them is their secondary scumread. Yet instead...they propose literally an identical plan. "Lynch mastina. Vig the one of us which is not me".

And this does not raise alarm bells.
This does not raise red flags.
They display no paranoia.
No doubt.

Not one iota of a thought that going down this path might be a mistake.
In spite of their secondary scumread being the only one to so strongly support it.

The reason why is because their interaction ISN'T town interacting with town, or even town interacting with scum. It's scum interacting with scum. They need to put on an act. They need to make it so that we don't lynch gerryoat or havingfitz, so they need to hold suspicion on one another as for us to not connect the dots. As for us to not think scum are buddying together to form a scumbloc and force a mislynch through on town in mylo. Yet because they are voting together, they've played their hand and revealed it.

I'm not quite sure I'm explaining this well enough. But read this shit for yourself and tell me you fucking think that both players in there are town. Or even that one of them is.

[mastina]

I don't think so either. Is that what mastina thinks happened?

Redirection, busdrive, or Nexus, yes. Those are the only explanations for why Screenplay's investigation failed and I received a result that I had blocked an investigative action. I shouldn't quote exact timestamps, but I asked about whether I saw myself blocking havingfitz do anything at around 3:15. At around 3:30 (a little after), Something_smart told me that I had blocked an investigative action. Near 4 (a little before), I asked my first questions about blocks vs. redirects and who'd win. Near 4:30 (a little after), I was told those weren't public. Near 4:45 (a little before), I asked my second round of questions. I got my answer near 5.

That's me rounding things to the nearest 15-minute mark so it should be okay (I don't see anything in the rules saying I can't do that since I'm not quoting exact timestamps), so that should give you a general timeframe of how things progressed as far as my questions to the mod went. And because I know I blocked an investigative action...I know that Screenplay's claim is accurate, not him being scum bullshitting.

I know that I blocked an investigative action.
Screenplay knows that his investigation failed.
I know that I targeted havingfitz, not Screenplay.
Everything corroborates. Everything fits. It all makes sense with scum having that sort of role and pulling that move. Of making my action go from havingfitz to Screenplay.

It's not that I think it happened.
It's that I fucking KNOW it happened.
Because there's no other way for things to have happened other than that.

People think that it's a violation of occam's razor.
But it's not. Occam's razor is that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. Yet the simple explanation IS for my action to have been redirected (or busdriven or nexus'd but I classify those as redirection actions). Because I have the result from the mod. And Screenplay has the result from the mod. Which tells you just about exactly. What happened and how. The evidence is already there.

It's not fucking unlikely. It's a fucking proven fact.

[mastina]

You mean this town player? lol....

No, I was referring to Screenplay, and the thought of Vaxkiller inevitably joining the lynch. Screenplay + Vaxkiller +2 scumfucks = I'm lynched. And that's what I meant.

[mastina]

I see it’s possible what they are trying to explain but unlikely.

Why?
Why is it unlikely? Why is a redirector action something you don't think is viable, when there is strong evidence suggesting it existing?

Yes, to some extent this relies on me not being able to pull off a lie of this magnitude, but.

If it is scum manipulation, hats off to them.

Why does this apply to the scum, yet not your thoughts about me? I can't fucking make this shit up as scum. I literally can't. At daystart, I fucking TOLD you. In 1711.

Checking with the mod now.
I blocked havingfiz, but I neither gained XP nor received a message indicating the type of action havingfitz would use last night--which makes no sense. If havingfiz had trained, I'd have gained XP and seen the train; if havingfitz used any action, I should have seen what type of action it was I blocked.

(That post was made after I had messaged the mod for what it's worth.) I fucking said. Right then and there. That I didn't have my fucking result for the night.

And then I got my answer.
Right when the fucking mod was online because the mod read my message and replied.
The back and forth I had with the mod.
The timing.

The situation.

I can pull impressive stunts as scum.

But I can't make THAT level of shit up on the fly. I can bullshit as scum, sure, yeah. But not at the speed of a blitz/marathon game where I am posting at rates/intervals of minutes rather than hours. By which, I mean. Basically. I cannot sustain live interactions of that nature with them being a lie. I have meta there, too, albeit, not meta from recently. Look at how obvscum I was in that game when it came to interacting in real time.

But far more importantly than that.
Far more importantly than that.
Name a single fucking game where I have told a lie as scum which was not moderator-provided. (Outside the newbie queue at least.) I've had a long career as a scum player.

Not once have I told a lie. (Well, actually. EXACTLY once. In all of those games. Once, in my entire career. A singular point of existence.)
I have a guiding principle. The best weapon is the truth. The best policy is honesty. The best lie is the truth. So as scum I don't make up a story about there being a redirector. As scum I don't make shit up about the moderator. As scum I don't say I didn't receive a result when I did. As scum, I don't fucking say that sort of thing.

So if I were scum.

With that kind of record on hand.

Damn fucking straight.
If I were scum, that would be hats-off level of play on my part to have been able to do that when I have a VERY FUCKING STRONG record of being absolutely godawful at it.

But the thing is.

You have to believe that EITHER:
...I am that level of a scum magnificent bitch, who pulled a stunt out of scratch and improvised lie after lie, with timing of the gods in terms of "interacting" with the mod...
...OR:
...I am simply town. Telling the fucking truth. Who had no lie to tell because there was none to be had because I really fucking was interacting with the moderator.

Mastina is the lynch today.

Again, why?
Because of a fucking role result which has reasonable doubt as to its validity?

Not once has a reason OFF OF MY FUCKING PLAY been presented for me being scum.
I've seen plenty of "lol ur scum" from gerryoat in particular (surprise, surprise!) and to a lesser extent havingfitz.
I've seen some doubts about my townness induced by paranoia of me still being alive from other players.

But not once.
Not fucking once.
Have I seen.
An actual fucking reason.
For me to be scum.

Off of my fucking play.
Because there isn't any fucking reason.
It doesn't exist.

Go look for yourself if you don't believe me.
DISCARDING THE ROLE RESULT.
Why do you think I'm scum?
Do you actually have any reason?
Can you find anyone stating a reason I'm scum?

It's a challenge I offer because it's an important fucking thing.

[mastina]

Ok. So 100% at least one of fitz or Mastina is scum.

Technically speaking not a necessity in that THEORETICALLY speaking, it'd be possible to have a scum player redirect me to you without havingfitz involved. Ditto busdriving fitz<->you. (The only option which is 100% scum-fitz would be if havingfitz is a Nexus.) THAT BEING SAID. Yeah it's just fucking fitz-scum, period, end of discussion. I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of possibilities. When we have the probability--nigh certainty--of havingfitz just fucking being scum. So yeah. No fucking shit. It's fitz hands-down.

[mastina]

if there was a redirector, they'd have killed mastina if she was town. no need to kill dreal.

This is once again rats-ass backwards as can be expected of a scum-gerry, in that a scum redirector is precisely why dreal is the best kill: because redirecting a fucking roleblocker essentially turns me into being a fucking scum PR, and also potentially framing someone by virtue of my followeresque upgrade.

Redirecting a roleblocker onto a target of their choice. Why the fuck would they want to kill that?

You just fucking gave the reason why I'd be alive.
Because my role could and would help scum, in exactly a situation like this.

Scum couldn't let Screenplay's track go uncountered.
Scum couldn't let my roleblock go uncountered.
But by redirecting my roleblock onto Screenplay's track...

...They kill two birds with one stone, making my roleblock do their dirty work for them.
And allowing for this very fucking line of reasoning to be used: "Why are you both alive?" To instigate a false 1v1.

[mastina]

That’s 10:30 for me. Getting late.

And we have two fucking weeks for deadline.
We have no need to lynch less than 48 hours after daystart.
When we were given two fucking weeks.

We should be using that time.

And lo and behold, the main proponents for rushing would be...gerryoat and havingfitz.

I imagine that I won't explain my stances, my viewpoints, with perfect clarity.
I imagine that I won't say everything I have to say tonight in spite of my efforts to do so.
I imagine that you'll have doubts, you'll have questions, you'll have things you want to talk about.

And those are things which absolutely should fucking happen.
They won't if you rush them. So you don't need to solve things tonight, as in, literally real life day. You can sleep on it. And then sleep on it again for that matter if you'd like. And again, and again, and again times like ten. Before needing to make a decision. All the while. More information will be gained and there will be more for you see, more for you to analyze, more for you to actually fucking think about.

And I think I've raised some damn good reasons for why you should have SIGNIFICANT pause on thinking of lynching me.
I have a strong established history of not making shit up--a prerequisite for me to be scum bullshitting this game.
I have a strongly-established towngame here. Jae was obvtown when they were in the game. I was obvtown when I had Jae in the game. And not once has this been seriously questioned.
I have no reasons presented outside of the role result for me to be scum.
I have given good evidence which strongly suggests my claim of the role result to not be condemning holds water.
I have shown you evidence that havingfitz and gerryoat are scumfucks using the same basic methodology. Using the same process to push the same idea: that I am scum, without allowing for critical thought.

And I'm not even fucking done yet. I'm not done with posting. I haven't presented my havingfitz case yet. But already you have all of that.

[mastina]

I don't know why scum doesn't kill a tracker/claimed role blocker is my big worry over someone like dreal

Again, self-evident if one nullifies the other.
If scum can make my roleblock go to the tracker, then why the fuck would they need to kill either of us? Instead, they can just off someone else, in this case dreal.

[mastina]

I upgraded last night.

Oh? Last night you say? As in, N5?
Not on D5 as you had previously claimed?

[mastina]

I think it's fitz and vax

This, by the way.
Is why I'm voting havingfitz rather than gerry.
I can convince Maki that gerry's scum...

...But in order for me to convince Maki that gerry's scum, first I have to have the scumbuddy flipped because I can't convince Maki that gerryoat's scum

while there are still two scum alive

.

We have common ground in both knowing that havingfitz is scum.
That's why I'm voting him.
Obviously I would

prefer

a gerryoat lynch.
But as long as Maki won't lynch there, I can't. But Maki WILL lynch havingfitz, so.

Not ideal, obviously.
But a scum lynch is a scum lynch and havingfitz is scum and with havingfitz flipped scum, Maki will have more reason to trust me. So it's a common reference point, as it were. A compromise. Not ideal, but the option which I most believe in. Especially since I think havingfitz is ten times more likely to be the redirector-role than gerryoat. (It being gerryoat requires either gerry to have gotten extra XP OR for him to have started with that role. But havingfitz could have feasibly upgraded much, much sooner since we have no proof he used a rolecop.)

[mastina]

please don't TR mastina for these long posts, she's a tryhard scum, i can provide a link to prove it.

Yeah, sure. Effort != alignment. I'm a tryhard scum, will freely admit that, just like I'm tryhard town.

...HOWEVER.

What you SHOULD fucking do.

Is read the fucking CONTENT of those posts.

Because the CONTENT of those posts.
Is where I prove my fucking points.
They absolutely

are

alignment-indicative and gerryoat doesn't want you reading them because he fucking knows that if you did in fact spend the time reading them, you'd figure out that I am in fact town.

[mastina]

Okay so I think the easiest way to explain this is for you to read havingfitz's iso from the start, paying attention to his mentions of gerry. You should also look at how his reads have developed. Also damning: havingfitz when catching up made no mention of Ghostlin. None. Nadda. Zilch whatsoever. He didn't mention the dead scum. His interactions with gerry were neutral to positive. (Up to and including chainsaw defending gerry by going after Maki.)

You should also pay attention to his read progression on players...or rather, the lack thereof. His reads were for the whole game static, stale, and unmoving. He didn't give anything in the way of actual game content, and when he did, he was doing a bunch of shade-casting. He cast shade on Assembler. He cast shade on EeveeLution Army while avoiding actually being on the wagon.

He does change reads...but he does so with zero reasoning, suddenly and abruptly. Look at his reads here. Only after I revealed my block does he produce this, where he has me as suspicious. And all the while, he was also casting suspicion on Screenplay. It's as if he already knew there was going to be a situation between Screenplay and I, before either of us had fucking claimed. See as far back as this.

There's also the classical "good job" scumtell which I can't believe I missed before.

My GOD I wish I had Jae in here.
Jae is like a thousand fucking times better at writing cases than I am.
And I signed up to play this game with them for damn fucking good reason.
I really can't explain it better than this even though I know this isn't nearly good enough, but.
havingfitz is just scum.

[mastina]

The posts actually feel fluffy to me.

Read them don't fucking skim them.

I realize I am naturally verbose and I make long walls.

Fuck. that. shit.

Read the whole fucking posts.

In full detail.

Every bit of them and digest every section.

Because that's the only way you're ever going to get anything productive out of my posting.

I don't write my posts so that some random shit in it can be written off as something unimportant.

I write my fucking posts where every detail is important.

If you think fitz is redirecting why is he considered not the ideal lynch?

Because of the strength of my scumread.
I am 99.999% sure gerryoat is scum.
I am only like 95-97.5% sure havingfitz is scum.

Dead scum is dead scum. I would prefer to lynch the player with the HIGHEST chance of being scum.

I do in fact think havingfitz is the scum redirector.
But I could be wrong.
It could be gerryoat.
Or fuck. It could be Vaxkiller as unlikely as that is to me.
I FEEL that havingfitz is the redirector. It's what my gut tells me. What my instincts say. What I think is the case, what my intuition has thought about as being the case.

But I don't KNOW havingfitz is the redirector.

I DO fucking KNOW that gerryoat is scum.
Which is why, ideally, in better circumstances, he'd be the lynch.

Basically, it's a numbering/confidence thing.
Lynching scum redirector > lynching scum > lynching town.
gerryoat scum > havingfitz scum.
Lynching aiming for highest chance of scum > lynching aiming for redirector.
So gerryoat is a better lynch to guarantee dead scum.

I'd take a guaranteed-goon flip any day over a possibly-scum-PR flip.

But this delves into mafia theory. You can disagree if you want, but this is a debate which would clearly be our personal opinions--our personal stances, our personal feelings across games, something to discuss and debate in mafia discussion. (In fact, that actually might be a good subject of debate: whether it's better to aim for the higher-chance-of-being-scum, or to aim for the higher-chance-of-being-scum-PR-but-lower-chance-of-being-scum.) In that it's not alignment indicative because my stance here would be identical regardless of alignment and I imagine so too would your stance be identical. (Can you honestly say otherwise?)

[mastina]

vt turning into driver ?????????

It wouldn't be a VT, it'd be a scum role.

[mastina]

VOTE: fitz
<3 this is wwe but this time we're really town

<3

[mastina]

If you don't mind, I'm a bit tired right now and still have other games to attend to (including my modded game), so I think this is it for me tonight.
I feel there is still stuff for me to say here. I feel like I still am being inadequate, that I still have more to say, that I'm not where I need to be, but my thoughts are incoherent, they're jabbled, scrambled. I'm not sure how to compose anything coherent beyond what I've given right now, so I can't do anything more at the moment.

[mastina]

if there is a redirector, why would none of mastina's blocks or srceen's tracks have been redirected at all?

Well for a start.
I didn't claim until D4. Scum had no way of knowing to target me before then.
Even if they did, there's always the possibility of them redirecting me to...the player I originally blocked--admittedly this isn't the most plausible of possibilities, but it IS a possibility given that every player I've blocked save you and havingfitz last night is either flipped town or known town. (Screenplay.)
Even if they didn't, there's the SIGNIFICANT chance that using the redirect action has a cost:

Costing XP to use.
Can't be used simultaneously with the nightkill (i.e. mafia cannot simultaneously kill and action).
Wasn't their original role but was an upgrade to their original role.
All of these are not at all remote possibilities. They are in fact strong probabilities. None of them are even mutually exclusive at that. One would be enough, but we could have MORE than one in effect.

There's plenty of reasons the action wouldn't have been used. Or if used, wouldn't be seen until now.
I'd actually cite that the lack of clear mafia kill both N3 and N4 is proof that mafia were using XP elsewhere and/or saving XP. (yurkin was not a scum nightkill, guaranteed--yurkin was almost everyone's favored mislynch so nobody would have nightkilled yurkin. This is self-evident. Yet we know I didn't block the nightkill that night, unless scum redirected me onto them. Which is actually possible: scum redirected me onto them, while nightkilling me. Remember, Assembler protected me. So me being their nightkill is a strong possibility and nobody should be ignoring this.)

mafia has to have a strong PR because ghost's PR was garb imo.

No, Ghostlin's role was god-tiered. It is a free XP-generator, and assuming his upgrade was identical to dreal's, this would allow the scumteam to have TWO free XP per night, IN ADDITION TO any training they would perform. Potentially allowing them to generate FOUR XP per night between all players, NOT EVEN GOING INTO the possibility of them receiving XP from Dunn and/or dreal.

That being said...you know what's also a strong PR?

...A

redirector

.

[mastina]

You know.

That's important enough a point for me to quote it since you fucks seem to not be reading what I fucking write when it's too long.

yurkin was not a scum nightkill, guaranteed--yurkin was almost everyone's favored mislynch so nobody would have nightkilled yurkin. This is self-evident.

Yet we know I didn't block the nightkill that night, unless scum redirected me onto them. Which is actually possible: scum redirected me onto them, while nightkilling me. Remember, Assembler protected me.

So me being their nightkill is a strong possibility and nobody should be ignoring this

.)

For emphasis.

The night there was clearly no mafia nightkill, Assemblerotws was protecting me.

That is STRONG reason.
Very fucking STRONG reason.
To believe that I was the scum's nightkill.

Yeah

, I was blocking Assembler that night.
But we know that there's a redirector role now.
So we can also infer the very realistic chance that EITHER:
-Scum redirected me onto their nightkiller, stopping the nightkill...
OR:
-Scum redirected me onto a different scum player, allowing for Assembler's protection on me to stop their nightkill on me.

Both are strong possibilities which fit all the fucking evidence.

[mastina]

Basically, you're fucking trying to mislynch a player who should be fucking conftown from the results of the prior nights in light of the new information we have available.

Go back and check the damn facts yourself if you don't fucking believe me.

How many players scumread yurkin? At least six. yurkin got to B-1 on D1. Those scumreads did not magically vanish come D2. Those scumreads still existed all of D2. And those scumreads continued into D3. For that matter, simple NKA off of the nightkills we've seen should show you who is, and isn't scum, but I'll do that in a separate post.

[mastina]

[Block] yurkin (6)- gerryoat, Vijarada, Vaxkiller, Raya36, Ginngie, yurkin
[Block] gerryoat (6)- NoticeMeSenpai, drealmerz7, Dunnstral, yurkin, Assemblerotws, EeveeLution Army

HURT: Gerry
oops my finger slipped

This was the blocks. And Ginngie hammering gerry.

Ginngie held yurkin as a scumread; you can iso her to see it, but switched to gerry. (Which is why I think she was killed.)
For that matter, we were Ginngie's top townread. (Read the iso if you don't believe me.) Why the fuck would we have nightkilled the player most strongly adamant that we are town?

Notably, Dunnstral was also on the blocking-gerry wagon. As was dreal. (So, too, was yurkin for that matter. And Assembler and Eevee have flipped town. In fact, we are literally the only player unflipped on that wagon. Literally every fucking other player is flipped town. I think that should tell you something about the nature of the gerry wagon! It should tell you that it was a fucking towndriven wagon. And that the scum have nightkilled exclusively FROM said wagon is reason enough to tell you that it is an all-town wagon.)

fitz can go first I am town he might not be

Look at this gem from dreal. Guess who died that night?

one thought before was that it was just maki and gerry together but I am so not invested :\

And here he also called gerry as scummy, too.

The point I'm making here: the nightkills have held much the same stances. For the MOST part, townreading my slot. All of them, scumreading gerry's slot. And dreal had the bonus of scumreading havingfitz as well!

Nightkill Analysis tells a clear fucking picture.
Not once has the nightkill held one iota of serious suspicion on me.

And yet they have died.

This doesn't match my scum meta, because my scum meta is eliminating the greatest threat to me. The greatest threat to me is ALWAYS the player who is closest to being right. Also, lol if you think I'd ever be afraid of dreal. dreal was mislynch bait--he quite literally was fucking BLOCKED. As in, lost all XP and unable to action a night, because enough town players thought he was scum to end the day prematurely. (Notably, I WAS NOT ON THAT WAGON and told you NOT to fucking rush that day, I wanted to take time there.)

dreal was someone I as scum would keep alive as the next mislynch. dreal was someone I as scum would be pocketing if I couldn't mislynch him. There's NO universe where I see him as the greatest threat. Nor is there any universe where I see him as worth killing. Frankly, even when he has accurate reads he's such an abysmally-bad player at explaining them, a terrible player at pushing them, that people write it off as town confbiased at BEST. Not a threat to me.

But other players--saaaaaaaayyy, gerryoat--would evaluate him differently.

[mastina]

literally the only way she is not confirmed scum if there just HAPPENS to be a redirector, that there was no evidence of until there was a guilty on mastina. don't you find that weird?

There WAS evidence, I just didn't know about it until today. I submitted a block on Assembler a night there was no scum nightkill. Assembler submitted a doctor protection on me. We know that my roleblock didn't stop a scum-Assembler from making the nightkill.

But it is beyond probability that my roleblock was redirected, onto scum, thus allowing for either my block to foil the nightkill and/or Assembler's protection to foil the nightkill. (The two aren't mutually exclusive! If scum A targeted me for the nightkill, and I was redirected to A, then I'd foil the nightkill but even had I not then Assembler's protection would do the same.)

There was a fucking night staring at us the whole fucking time which proved there was a redirector the whole fucking time.
I just didn't realize it until today.

GOD I wish I had Jae with me because Jae probably would've put two and two together much more quickly.

[mastina]

I'd LIKE to say the no kill is a guilty on gerry.
But I actually have good reason off of my role to know I didn't stop a kill.

Yes.
Because of my fucking roleblock leeching XP from people who train, I know that the player I roleblocked (presumably gerry) trained.
Because of my fucking roleblock's upgraded power being a follower in that I know what role action type I am blocking, I know that I fucking blocked a training action.

So N4 (NOT N3), I know I didn't stop a nightkill because I know from my upgraded role that I didn't.
From N3 (NOT N4), I hadn't upgraded yet so I know I didn't block someone from training but I don't know what action type I stopped.

Also btw. I just realized.
D1, we had 1 XP.
D2, we had 2 XP in spite of blocking your slot, Screenplay. That means we received XP from Dunnstral N1. We were Dunnstral's top-townread, or near-top given that we had to have gotten XP from Dunn. (I originally thought that we had received XP from blocking you from training, but you're a tracker, who tracked that night rather than training.)
Nobody else has claimed the N1 XP from Dunn as far as I can tell.

So we have role confirmation that Dunnstral townread us strongly.
Meaning once more. We wouldn't fucking nightkill him.

[mastina]

WHY would scum redirect/busdrive/wahtever a Screenplay tracker onto themselves?

???
You're asking a question for a scenario which was never posited.
Scum wouldn't redirect a Screenplay track onto themselves, but nobody said that at any point.
Scum WOULD redirect a roleblock to STOP Screenplay's track.

How would they KNOW he would use a loyal action?

They don't need to.
What would happen come today is that Screenplay would claim his action failed no matter what.
What would then happen is:
-EITHER: I claimed a roleblock on him, thus masking the presence of the redirector (doing them no harm),
-OR: I claim a roleblock elsewhere, and thus still creating the 1v1 between us.

Why is that still a 1v1 without the loyal?

Because no fucking shit there's not going to be another roleblocking action left unclaimed in the game. No fucking shit the only way for Screenplay to get no result is for me to have blocked him. And with me claiming to have blocked elsewhere...no fucking shit, that makes Screenplay cry out foul.

Am I wrong?

Of course not.
Because it's self-fucking-evident that a roleblocker claiming not to have blocked the tracker who claims to have no result is a situation where the natural inclination is to call out bullshit and declare one of the two to be confscum...instigating a game-winning 1v1 between two town players.

[mastina]

@ mastina....are you mastin and/or mastin2?

No shit, sherlock.

From this you'd be able to vouch for a fair amount of what I've said here RE: my own meta. How much I don't do the stuff which would be absolutely necessary for me to have done as scum.

But you won't vouch for it because it's not in your wincon to clear me from being scum.

[mastina]

I mean there is too many un-explained crap surrounding this to believe. Is mastina saying thier upgraded ability is that they will see what action is being roleblocked? THen proceededs to say they didn't get that communication?

Yes. My role upgraded such that I see what action type I blocked. This is a Follower which also roleblocks the target. You can further find the fucking mechanics of it in the opening fucking posts:

II. Training
Each player, by default, is allowed to Train during the night. This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside any action. When a player Trains, they gain 1 XP.

This is an action and can be blocked or seen with Follower

, but it is not considered a visit and therefore cannot be seen by Tracker, Motion Detector, Voyeur, or Watcher.

Can be BLOCKED or seen with FOLLOWER.

THE MODERATOR LITERALLY FUCKING PUT MY FUCKING ROLE IN THE OPENING FUCKING POST.
THE MODERATOR LITERALLY FUCKING TOLD YOU ALL FROM THE ONSET MY FUCKING ROLE IS IN THE FUCKING GAME.
Pay attention to that fucking wording.
"Can be blocked or seen with Follower".
There's no Oxford Comma.
And that makes a fucking difference.
"Can be blocked, or seen with Follower"-->the two are unrelated, in that blocking is separated from Follower.
"Can be blocked or seen with Follower"-->the two are EXPLICITLY TIED TOGETHER.

The mod literally fucking told you that my fucking upgraded role was a role in this fucking game.

[mastina]

And furthermore.

Vaxkiller, you fucking know this shit.

I have ranted about it in many a past games, including games you were fucking in.

I do not fucking lie as scum.
I don't.
The best fucking lie is the damn truth.

In all my hundreds of fucking games.
Where I've had probably something like 75+ scumgames.
Never once, did I lie about my fucking role.
(Aside from one game which is ridiculously obscure.)

Not.
fucking.
once.

Because I am not inclined to tell a fucking lie.
It's not in my nature.
It's not how I fucking work.

And you know DAMN fucking good and well that I don't.
FURTHERMORE.

I shouldn't quote exact timestamps, but I asked about whether I saw myself blocking havingfitz do anything at around 3:15. At around 3:30 (a little after), Something_smart told me that I had blocked an investigative action. Near 4 (a little before), I asked my first questions about blocks vs. redirects and who'd win. Near 4:30 (a little after), I was told those weren't public. Near 4:45 (a little before), I asked my second round of questions. I got my answer near 5.

That's me rounding things to the nearest 15-minute mark so it should be okay (I don't see anything in the rules saying I can't do that since I'm not quoting exact timestamps), so that should give you a general timeframe of how things progressed as far as my questions to the mod went.

Do you think.
I made this shit up.
Do you fucking think.
I made shit up about timestamps.
That I bullshitted times to interact with the mod.
That I fucking lied about having communication with the fucking moderator.

Do you fucking think.
That is EVER a fucking move.
I could ever make.

Knowing that IT IS SOMETHING RIDICULOUSLY FUCKING EASY TO DISPROVE.
All it'd take is for the moderator to...oh. Yaknow. Not actually be fucking online at the time I claimed he was. And then, BAM. I become confscum.
The only way for me to fucking know otherwise...
...Is.

Oh yeah.

For me to have actually. fucking. talked. to the fucking mod.

[mastina]

I can further even paraphrase the mod's response when he sent me the action.
"Oh, sorry, it was 2:30 in the morning. You blocked an investigation action".

Not an exact quote, of course, but as close as I am comfortable with as far as paraphrasing goes.

The mod fucking told me it was in fact a mistake that he had forgotten to send me the result I was entitled to with my upgrade.
I can't make this shit up.

Anyone.
Who knows fucking ANYTHING.
About me.

Knows that.

[mastina]

VOTE: mastina
I'm happy with this. Mastina's excuse is that screen and mastina were redirected, and SOMEHOW mastina didnt get any info about what they roleblocked (im guessing this is thier upgrade)

Did you even fucking read?

I got the information about what I roleblocked...
...But only AFTER having asked the fucking mod about it. Because the mod fucking forgot to send it in his daystart PM.
His daystart PM contained the link to the daystart and how much XP I have. It did not contain what action I blocked.
This is in contrast to what happened N4, where I got the daystart PM, how much XP I have, and contained the information of what action I blocked.
So I fucking knew it was missing, asked about it, and got the answer later.

I FUCKING TOLD YOU IN POST 1711. "Checking with the mod now. I gained no XP nor was told what action I had blocked, which makes no sense".
I FUCKING TOLD YOU IN POST 1730. 30 minutes later (no seriously on the dot 30 minutes exactly after), one page later. "I got the answer from the mod. I blocked an investigative action".

I got the information. But only after fucking ASKING the mod for the information, and receiving my result.

My "excuse" is not that Screen and I were both redirected.
My working theory is that I was redirected.
Which there is strong fucking evidence for.

You are ignoring large swathes of the things I am fucking saying.
You are discarding large fucking portions of the evidence I am presenting.

[mastina]

When it comes down to it you have to think like this: Screen has a guilty on mastina.

And I'll stop you there because no he fucking doesn't. We've covered this in great length. The result is not a fucking guilty when there's reasonable fucking doubt.

We've fucking established that there's reasonable fucking doubt.

You've placed the burden of proof on me...but I've fucking DELIVERED that proof. Time and time again. I've shown you where it fucking is, every step of the way. Why the actions line up. How they fucking line up. Why I am not spewing bullshit. How things played out. I've cited evidence from across the fucking game and used things which are beyond my ability to fake up.

So no the burden has shifted to you.

Why the fuck is what I'm saying invalid?

If you can't counter my fucking points.
If you can't fucking provide any reason for why my fucking points shouldn't be taken as genuine.

Then why the fuck are you still pressing this?

[mastina]

Better yet..does anyone else consider Maki confirmed town and if so...why?

It's a long post so have a link: 1726.
Also,
UNVOTE: havingfitz.
In spite of what I said before, I could be wrong about it being him.

I want to give time for both fitz and Vaxkiller to post to see tho.

[mastina]

you're fucking delusional

Probably

still scum, just trying to doubtcast conftown to leave wiggle room. But if town, then yes.

[mastina]

mastina you need to convince gerry or vax

This would be rather problematic since 100% guaranteed one of them is scum...with the chance both are. (This is something you and I can both agree on, yes? Even if which we'd think is more likely to be scum we don't, that these two have one scum guaranteed with a chance of it being both I think we can.)

[mastina]

we're at a stale mate 3 votes vs 3 votes who's gonna change and I dam sure know it's not me

Unfortunately, the person most likely to change is Screenplay...which is in the wrong fucking direction.

In order to change into the direction where we actually fucking win we'd need to identify the scum in the three and get the third who is town to vote with us.

I need to show that mastina is town here and vote the other 2

In any rational town, I've done plenty enough to prove that already.

Sadly.........

[mastina]

Is a thing

One of the main problems is we're waiting on the two players who have been least active today--Vaxkiller and havingfitz.

Maki's said her stances pretty clearly, you've said yours, gerry's said his, and I've said mine. We've gone over them in great lengths--to the extent where I can't think of anything else to cover...until Vaxkiller and havingfitz post. Because what they post is absolutely important since it is a determining factor in who is scum.

The holiday was ongoing before, but that excuse has now been lifted--as a result, we can expect content from them soon. A failure to produce content soon would, in of itself, I suppose give you an answer. But me being me, I'm pretty lenient as to times. (I have to be, because I need to treat others as I expect to be treated, and I absolutely require leniency a lot of the time in games because I am NOTORIOUS for slacking off.) So I'm not gonna set a hard deadline or anything of the sort.

I will however still be keeping it in mind, giving all sorts of for a continued absence especially if I note presence elsewhere. (Again, I know better than most that's not necessarily a scumtell...but it does give credence to the idea of the slot(s) being scum lurking, hoping that today will default to either a no-lynch or a mastina-lynch.)

[mastina]

@mastina...why would scum redirect your block on their nk'er?

At the time, we weren't claimed. They wouldn't know. We had softed, but who's to say scum correctly got that we had softed roleblocker? It's QUITE possible they interpreted our posts as being an investigative (which would presumably be a false guilty, thus leading to us 1v1ing town), or even a protective with them hoping to protect against any Vig kill--this is actually rather realistic. Most of our breadcrumbs for blocking can be interpreted as either. (For instance, our constant mentions of Fountain where we were a split jailkeeper; we could have been a protective here.)

And the vig mechanic was unlocked the night before I blocked Assembler.
Meaning that scum thinking that we're a protective would have reason to redirect us to them.

We didn't claim until AFTER the event in question. Thus, why WOULDN'T scum redirect us onto their nightkiller? It's a safe bet we wouldn't vig. I loathe the role and would personally never ever EVER use it to the point where even as a fucking serial killer I holstered thanks to despising the idea of doing anything else. Us not going to nightkill them. Us potentially being an investigative which would then get a false-guilty if we had been investigating town. (As we were with our target being Assembler.) Us potentially being a protective which would then protect from anyone who ACTUALLY held a vig and had an itchy trigger finger. The like.

Literally the only fucking role they'd not want to redirect to them is the role I have. Any other role, they benefit.

[mastina]

Annnd I've actually been in a game with a friendly neighbor. OK...so unless Maki is scum with gerry, looks like Maki is confirmed town. I think that's all the reading for me tonight.

[mastina]

So poe...does a gerry Vax team work?

If you're town?

Then yes. Explicitly so.

I'm actually beginning to think that could be the case, though things like 1985/1986 give me pause and want me to go back to my original. Still there IS some town in there (I hate a lot but I actually like the immediate backtrack on Maki), enough where yes I am actually seriously thinking that I'm probably wrong about you being scum.

But I want to see Vaxkiller's posting to make sure. He's actually looking like the favored lynch today, but he's owed a chance to prove himself.

[mastina]

Why not redirect dreal if they need xp as well?

They didn't know dreal's role until yesterday.
Today is mylo.

Winning the game today (or having a guaranteed win immediately thereafter) > slow-rolling.

We started today with you and I engaged in a "1v1". In most towns. In 90% of towns. That would have resulted in a quicklynch on town, especially with both scum all too eager to back it up.

Redirecting me to you creates a 1v1 REGARDLESS of what you do and what I did unless my target was you originally (something which wasn't the most likely given my reads). 1v1 in mylo means one of us gets mislynched and scum win, or if their kill is foiled, then the other gets mislynched in 5p lylo. Regardless, they win.

Redirecting dreal to them (when as far as they knew, dreal could have targeted them ANYWAY thus wasting the redirect) gives them one extra XP and...
...Well, that's it.

Nothing extra. No plan. No real gain. They don't get anything from having one extra point of XP in like 98% of cases. It doesn't make as much sense on any level.

Redirecting me to you on the other hand is a plan which in all but the smartest of towns results in a LOL GUILTY LET'S QUICKLYNCH NO THOUGHTS GIVEN. In MYLO.

Can't emphasize that enough. Lolguilty on town. From town. In fucking MYLO. Mislynch-and-lose. Seems like a pretty safe, smart move to make, no? It has the highest +EV for a scum win, and lowest chance of backfiring on them. It's what I'd do as scum and it's what literally any one of the players in this game would do as scum. havingfitz is a veteran of games with this sort of mechanic; he would use it. gerryoat's literally used ALMOST THIS EXACT MANEUVER BEFORE as scum in Fountain when he janitored Mathblade and nightkilled Jae in an attempt to sell the narrative that Math was scum and that Math's death unlocked the scum nightkill. Vaxkiller's smart enough to do it. Maki's a genius as scum and would do it. You're the only one I can't say for sure would, but I'm pretty sure it's within your scumrange.

So again.

Why

would

they redirect dreal? It's just not very effective.

[mastina]

im still sick as shit

i read up and im still not convinced.

Mastina basically wrote a game narrative that includes a redirector and I don't see it.

Like scum JUST upgraded and got it last night or something.

I dont buy it. Ill be on tomorrow, hopefully feeling better.

VOTE: Vaxkiller.

I'm at work, so I can't explain until later tonight (circa 8 pm, 12 hours from now), but this post is a scumslip. Vaxkiller is confscum; no other lynch is acceptable anymore.

[mastina]

Alright, I'm here.

[mastina]

tbh maki just tell me what your plan is at this point, this is getting boring

scum is vax and fitz will vote either

At this point it should be voting Vaxkiller and I'll explain to you why in a bit.

[mastina]

Mastina gives a lot of content as mafia too, content doesn't = town at all.

Sure!

PRESENCE of content != town.
We've been over this, effort != alignment.

NATURE of content is, explicitly, the fucking definition of what differentiates town and scum. The difference between what makes a player be town and what makes a player be scum is their fucking content. And my content makes it clear as fucking day that I'm town.

[mastina]

Like scum JUST upgraded and got it last night or something.

So the scumslip I mentioned before is, basically: I never said this, specifically.
In fact rather the opposite--I've been saying everything EXCEPT got it last night.
I have pushed the idea they've held it all game.
I have pushed the idea they upgraded much earlier than we had previously anticipated.

Why does Vaxkiller think I was specifying they got the upgrade LAST night?
When I made no such specific callout?
And to the contrary have been saying the opposite?

The scumslip comes in, in that if scum really DID get their upgrade last night for the redirector...then Vaxkiller would--as scum--naturally think that this is what others think. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well enough, but basically, it's a perspective slip. It's giving too much information. It's revealing stuff that a scum player THINKS town knows...but which the town

actually doesn't know

. And thus, by revealing this information, it's...a slip of the tongue. A classical scumslip.

And this is why Vaxkiller has moved to being confscum for me.

[mastina]

Fine
VOTE: gerry

For the record I'd still lynch here if I thought I could get the support...but I can't.

Vaxkiller, as gerry's scumbuddy, won't lynch there.
Maki, in her stubbornness, won't lynch there.
havingfitz MIGHT lynch there, and you just made it known you will lynch there.

But without Maki, we can't actually get a lynch there.

In spite of gerry being obvscum the whole game.
(Also there's the question on whether we lynch obvscum or confscum. Vaxkiller's scumslip is pretty fucking damning and I'm pretty damn sure that elevates him to the level of confscum, whereas gerry's just been obvscum the whole game. I actually don't have a theory answer for sure on which is the better option, but I THINK that traditionally you go for the confscum first?)

[mastina]

mastina (2)- gerryoat, Vaxkiller

Btw as if there were any doubt--literally any scumteam combo not involving one/both of gerry/Vaxkiller would have held a chance to hammer, thereby guaranteeing that AT LEAST one of gerry/Vax is scum, but that's pretty damn self-evident. I did think it worth mentioning tho.

[mastina]

mastina where are you I need you

I can only be in so many places at once!

Yesterday I was committed to doing something elsewhere. Today I committed myself to being here. <3

[mastina]

Mastina basically wrote a game narrative that includes a redirector and I don't see it.

Btw there's more to why this is scum than just the scumslip. Beyond the scumslip, there's also the lack of critical evaluation. Vaxkiller is many things. A moron who blindly believes a guilty is a guilty and doesn't give critical thought to whether that guilty holds validity? Is not one of those things.

Quite the contrary. In my experience with Vaxkiller over a fair number of games (admittedly my sample size isn't super-huge; it's something like five or six games), he's been one of the most rational, cool, collected, calm thinkers in the entire town. He took time. LOTS of time. He didn't jump to conclusions. He was the fucking one listing endless possibilities. In fact, I distinctly recall a signature trait of his in Biochemistry.

In that game, he was proposing ridiculous ideas like that the Jailkeeper Inventor could be a Mafia Ascetic Jailkeeper Inventor, or something absurd of that nature. I forget the exact thing he said, but it was something really far out there like that. This isn't an unusual trait for him. This isn't a one-off, a feature that he showed in that game only.

Vaxkiller considers every possibility, even the absolute ludicrous ones that nobody else would and everyone else would write off. Vaxkiller as town is known for being a bit crazy, but I also respect him because of his ability to think of EVERY player as scum, off of their play rather than role. He emphasizes play over role, like I do, and will invent reasons for players who're cleared by role to not fucking be cleared by role if he suspects that player of being scum.

That's the Vaxkiller I know.

The Vaxkiller this game is the polar fucking opposite.
He just went, "Oh guilty? Lol. Vote mastina." And has given no critical thought. He hasn't thought about whether it makes sense. He hasn't thought about whether it matches my play. He hasn't thought about whether I actually could realistically be scum. He just calls me scum, and calls scenarios where I wouldn't be scum as "unlikely".

Unlikely...why? On what grounds? He doesn't say. Which he always does as town.

It's a scum post in just about every way possible.

[mastina]

Look at me all townread.

You were a townread because you were voicing suspicion on Assemblerotws at the time I was under the impression I held a guilty on him. There was one scum dead already. You were calling for Assembler's death before I outed the result. As a result, I deemed it impossible for you to be scum bussing Assembler, thus, townread.

That basically went out the window once Assembler flipped town.

mastina did not post on Nov 9th until 17 minutes after the hammer....however...they did post 55 on Nov 8th in multiple threads after Assembler claimed.

I posted in my GTKAS--this is something I do daily regardless of games. When I do zero fucking content in all my fucking games, I STILL post in my GTKAS. Every day. I post every day in the GTKAS thread. I do so even if I have no intention to do anything else on mafiascum. Often, I post in my GTKAS thread shortly after midnight...right before going to bed. As in, posting for the current day, so that I don't have to do it during the day.

I did some moderator duties that day--these ate up a significant portion of my time and yes. Absofuckinglutely modding > playing, at least it should. My next series of posts ate up literally all my time, and they were made to prevent me from breaking a promise. I promised I would be somewhere on November 8th. I was at that place on November 8th. By being at that place on November 8th...I wasn't fucking here.

Because again.

I can.
only.
fucking.
be.
in.
one.
fucking.
place.
at.
once.

I don't fucking multitask.
I am in multiple fucking games.
But do I play two at once? Fuck no.

I go to one.
Finish it.
Then go to another, and finish it.
That is how I operate.

I didn't check the fucking thread.
Why would I?
I had already posted.
This game was "done" for the day.
With the game being "done" for the day.
I didn't need to return until the next day.

Assembler's claim did not see the claim and have a chance to unvote if the claim warranted it as mastina alludes to in their opening post the following day (D5).

For the record, I would like to say what my stance was.
Assembler may, or may not, have still been the lynch.
What I took issue with was the

speed

of the lynch.

After Assembler claimed his role, there should have been someone around to pause, give thought, and coordinate optimum plans. We didn't get to plan on things if Assembler was the lynch or even better if Assembler WASN'T the lynch. I wasn't around to unvote (being onsite != being around; being around = reading the fucking thread and knowing what's going on relatively recently, more or less), so I couldn't do that and it makes sense I didn't...but others WERE, and that's where my suspicion came from.

1561...mastina's main scum suspects are gerry + Eevee OR Vax.

Not quite. My suspects were gerry + Eevee, Vaxkiller as a backup. It was about 99.99% gerry, 80% Eevee, 19.99% Vaxkiller. Thereabouts.

@mastina...was your suspicion towards me due to your block results or because I didn't claim my upgrade in my very first post on D6?

Neither, yet both. My suspicion on you was due to thinking your claim was sketchy-as-fuck yesterday. Furthermore, a large portion of my reasoning for townreading you was your reads on players like Assembler, in that scumreading my scumreads when scum can't afford to bus = me thinking you're not scum. But with said scumreads flipping town...that read deteriorated.

The lack of results and lack of claim both augmented that already-existing suspicion. I wouldn't have submitted a fucking block on you if I wasn't suspicious of you PRIOR TO D6.

And why have you been so suspect of gerry this entire game but have yet to place a lynch vote on him?

I voted to block him D1 and was the strongest advocate of doing so.

On D2, gerry guaranteed had zero XP, and thus, blocking him was useless. Thus, we voted to block elsewhere.

On D3, you will recall that's the day I lost my fucking hydra partner.

I told you not to fucking act prematurely but you fucks blocked drealmerz without consulting with me first. (A block I absolutely would not have approved of.) I never made a block-vote that day phase because I wasn't playing the fucking game and this is an easily-documented effect.

On D4, I was under the impression I held a role guilty. I voted the fucking guilty. That was a quicklynch as you yourself noted, giving me no time to unvote and then vote gerry.

On D5, I was quite specific: I stated I would vote whichever of Eevee or gerry had a larger wagon.
Eevee had a larger wagon, and was thus my vote.

And here, today, there's no point in me voting gerry unless I can convince Maki.

I can compromise with Maki into lynching Vaxkiller (who is the second scum).
I can't compromise with Maki into lynching gerry because she's too stubborn to consider him as scum until after a scumflip and an additional night of info.

Believe me.

Nothing would make me fucking happier than a gerryfuckingoat lynch.

It was JaeReed's dream this game.
It was my dream this game.

But it's not happening today without Maki and Maki is convinced gerry's not scum, sooooooooooo......

scum would have had no way of knowing Srceen was going to loyalize his track which is the main implication against mastina.

I've answered this already. They don't need to have.

It's simple.
Their plan goes like this.
They redirect me to Screenplay.
I claim my block target (you).
Screenplay claims to be roleblocked. (Normal track is still definitively blocked with hard evidence of having been so.)

There is no other claimed roleblocker.
Yet my roleblock was claimed on a different player.

In literally any fucking town ever.

The result of me claiming to block you, havingfitz...
...While Screenplay claims to be blocked without me having targeted you...

...Is a 1v1 between Screenplay and me. The loyal was a happy accident, a lucky fluke, them striking gold on a plan which was already going to work even without it. I'm not sure how I can better explain that than right there. Because that tells you why Screenplay and I both needed to be alive. If I died, it was plausible that I really did block Screenplay thus making Screenplay not appear suspicious-as-hell. If Screenplay died, then I wouldn't look that bad from my result.

So why not block Vax?

Vaxkiller had CLAIMED a role. You had not. My roleblocker acts as a follower if I block something, remember? In that sense, it's almost a rolecop. I did strongly consider it. Really, really, REALLY strongly fucking consider it. It was one of my strongest options. But ultimately, I decided to try to essentially force you into a corner, as it were. I deemed it worth the risk.

And why is my "hop on" following Srceen's result more opportunistic than Screen's result and vote to begin with? If you think Srceen is town how is my agreeing with him scummy?

It is natural for the holder of a result to assume the result is accurate and thus believe they hold a guilty.

It is not natural for a town player to see a guilty claim and put no critical thought into whether the guilty claim holds credence--why not consider that it was Screenplay-as-scum going for a mylo mislynch? Even I put some cursory thought into that idea. I wasn't immediately convinced Screenplay was town with a false-guilty in spite of being the player the false-guilty is on.

Asking mod's clarification questions is ok but you seem to be hinging your towniness on things the mod did or didn't do.

People called what I was saying bullshit.

I called them out on their fucking callouts because that shit happened and yes you're DAMN fucking right I'm going to fucking fight to the death against anyone who says otherwise.

The mod did not send me my result I was entitled to.
I inquired about the lack of result, and posted in-thread about it.
The mod apologized for the lack of result and sent it to me.

I literally can't make that shit up as scum.

So damn fucking straight it's relevant.

The whole fucking point is that people were saying it was "convenient" that I got my results only after Screenplay claimed the guilty.
But the results really fucking weren't sent to me and that's not something I can fucking make up. It's literally not shit I'd ever think of. My brain does not operate in that matter. I cannot. Fundamentally CANNOT. Make that level of lie up. And I provided the evidence showing as much.

I then also went on to demonstrate that a redirector was all-but-mod-confirmed by my series of questions to him.
Do you think I was bullshitting?
Do you think I didn't ask the mod about my role?
Do you think I would do that as scum?

Okay. Then fucking prove it. Show me any fucking scumgame of mine where I fake that shit. Where when I claim a mod interaction, I lie about it.

...Hint.

You'll never find one because in all my fucking hundreds of games.

It doesn't fucking exist.

Because.
I.
don't.
do.
that.
fucking.
shit.

The mod interaction happened.

And thus.

Is ABSOLUTELY fucking alignment indicative.

Because people have been doubtcasting me off of thinking the interactions didn't happen.

When I've done as much as I can to fucking prove the interactions did happen.

The 2nd half of post 1750, from "If I were scum" sounds like you describing exactly what you are doing. Out arguing Srceen, et al.

Oh?
Where's my scumread of Screenplay then?
Do tell.
Because that's what I fucking meant by out-arguing him.

I was referring to calling him a fucking liar. I was referring to a simple idea.

Say I was scum.
Say Screenplay got a genuine guilty.
All I fucking need to do as scum.
Is say that today is mylo, Screenplay is scum claiming a guilty to get the mislynch needed to win the game for scum, and then case him for why he'd be fucking scum.

And I absolutely could do so.

Maki holds a greater townread on me than Screenplay, and has the whole fucking game. As previously established by you, Maki can't be my scumbuddy, so that's one town player on my side. I need only two, because me + scumbuddy = half the votes needed to lynch Screenplay. Plus Maki, that's 3/4.

All I'd need is for one extra town to vote Screenplay, and BAM.
Game won. (Because I have a proven fucking roleblock, thus can block Maki, and with the nightkill, instawin.)

I didn't do that, did I?
Not one lick.
Not one iota. Not an ounce. Not so much as a singular post where I pushed that angle as a working hypothesis.

Because I'm not. fucking. scum.

1778...

I'm not your first choice for a lynch but I make the most sense? Who is your first choice?

gerryoat is the first choice, obv.
You made the most sense for the same reason Vaxkiller makes the most sense: it is a lynch I felt was achievable on scum. By which I mean. Basically, compromising. If I insisted on gerry, and Maki insisted on not-gerry. Then we'd be at a stalemate where scum couldn't get lynched. At the time I believed Vaxkiller to be town and you to be scum. (Now it's the other way around.) But the statement still stands.

gerryoat is my first choice. But Vaxkiller makes the most sense to lynch, because lynching Vaxkiller will lynch scum, whereas voting gerryoat will divide the town in half. I have to compromise, and I can compromise on Vaxkiller. That's what I mean, more or less. I'm not sure if there's a better way to word this though.

FYI...looking at the NAR....Blocks occur before Redirects.

Um.
No.
That's flat-out outright wrong.

The mod fucking told me that my roleblock was trumped by a busdrive. (You may or may not be able to find an answer on this to confirm.)
A busdrive is a fucking redirect-type action.
A busdrive is a

REDIRECT

-TYPE action.
Any mod who doesn't classify all of the same type of action on the same basic tier is a shitty mod. You don't say a fucking busdrive trumps a role and then go around to have that same fucking type of role as a redirector be trumped by it.

That being said, it doesn't matter TOO much...since I don't think you're the redirector anyway (that'd be Vaxkiller), so. Moot point regardless.

Also. It's pretty damn suspicious that the mod refused to answer me about redirectors, yes?

That might be...oh. Yaknow. Because there actually fucking is one. Whereas with the busdriver, because there wasn't, I got an answer.

1877...calls for "DISCARDING THE ROLE RESULT" which seems ironic given Post 1273 where they call for people to heed their RB result on Assembler.

My stance has always been play > role.
The difference between the two is that I was scumreading Assembler's play. (I didn't fucking block him because I thought he was town, no fucking shit I thought he was scum.)
Roles AUGMENT play.
Roles SUPPLEMENT play.
Roles ENHANCE play.
They do not

supplant

play.
They do not replace play.

When I got the guilty on Assembler, I had good reason to believe it was a guilty on scum because I held a scumread on Assembler, more or less. I thought he was a realistic chance of being scum off of PLAY.
And then I got a result which told me he was likely to be scum, by role.
Role enhanced play, vote the fucking scumread who was a guilty.

But here and now.
I fucking know I'm town.

And MORE THAN THAT.

More than fucking that.

I also fucking know.

There's not one iota of a case against me outside of the role result.

I've asked for people to give one.

I've received nothing but silence.

Nobody has given any PLAY-based reasons.

When I explained why I blocked Assembler, I gave play-based reasons for why I thought he was suspicious.
When Screen blocked me, it was meant as a cop; he did it essentially thinking he'd be hitting fucking town. No, seriously. Read his fucking posts. He thought he'd track me and that I'd be the fucking NIGHTKILL. He thought he'd get a result no matter what. Because he thought I was fucking town. Off of my fucking play.

That's the difference between the two.

It's in the fucking play.
The thing I am emphasizing.

There's no contradiction.

1878...it's just me scum no fcuking shit hands down. At least until post 1950.

Yes. You will note between there two things happened:
-You posted things which I quoted as making me doubt my scumread on you.
-Vaxkiller posted things which I quoted as making me doubt my townread on him.

Vaxkiller did a bunch of shit he ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE if he was town.
You did a lot of things which made me think it was possible--nigh, even probable--you were town.

The more you post.
And the more Vaxkiller posts.

The more I think that, too.

It's called an evolution in read.

Another fucking thing which shows why I'm not scum.

If I were scum, what's my scum motivation behind switching my scumread there? There's MORE fucking interest in lynching you than there is in lynching Vaxkiller. Of you two, Vaxkiller is the harder read to push in fact. You already know you're not my fucking scumbuddy, so I can't be switching off of you in a distancing act, so why the fuck would I go for the HARDER push to go through as scum?

The only thing is...you don't address why scum wouldn't just kill Srceen and redirect your RB anywhere else.

Because my RB somewhere else isn't as surefire a thing to instigate a 1v1.

Screenplay's role, 100% of the time, gets results.

My role, 100% of the time, interferes with results.

My RB on someone else does not interfere with results especially considering I would claim my follower result which would make it obvious what had happened. My RB on someone else does not interfere with results if the person redirected to doesn't do much. I'm not quite sure I'm wording this properly, but basically.

Me-->Screenplay instigates a 1v1 100% of the time.

Me-->someone else MIGHT instigate a 1v1, but wouldn't inherently do so.

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped. I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

And in no world does scum redirect a RB onto the person submitting their NK

You apparently missed the part where I wasn't fucking claimed at the time. The night in question is N3. I claimed D4. Chronology matters.

[mastina]

I want to vote vax here

Then do so.

You think it's Vax-fitz.
I think it's Vax-gerry.
Regardless of which of the two is correct.

Vaxkiller is scum regardless, so.

[mastina]

Btw, I'd encourage you to iso Vaxkiller.
Look for his read progression.

There's no evolution in reads.
Just blatant switches in reads. For instance:

AM i the only one who thinks sceen play is scum?

VOTE: Screenplay

I'm going to trust mastina because of what I know.

What’s the difference between an auto farmer and a vt?

Maybe we lynch this as a compromise

These go up to fucking YESTERDAY.

Vaxkiller literally said.
"I think Screenplay is scum. I think mastina is town."

Then, come today.
Screenplay outs his result, and SUDDENLY:

I need to read this sober tomorrow but my intention is to vote for mastina.

Again.
For emphasis.
This is fucking MYLO.

Why the fuck.
Does Vaxkiller skip to the thought.
Of me being scum and Screenplay being town.

When HIS STANCE PRIOR TO SCREEN OUTING THE RESULT WAS THE FUCKING OPPOSITE.

Srceen...did you track anyone?

I wasn’t able to track anyone to the kill

WHo did you track?

This in particular is pretty damning--it's as if he fucking knew that Screenplay had no fucking result.

And WORSE:

@screen
Waht do you think of mastina?

Vaxkiller was encouraging the 1v1 between Screenplay and I...
...Before we had fucking claimed.

CHECK THE TIMING ON THAT SHIT.
Vaxkiller.
Literally.
Was trying.
To instigate.

A 1v1 between Screenplay and I.

Before either of us had outed our fucking results.

[mastina]

That bears emphasis:

@screen

Waht do you think of mastina?

Vaxkiller made this post before either of Screenplay or I had outed our results.

Jesus Christ it doesn't get any more fucking obvious than that and I can't believe I missed it before.

[mastina]

I'm not reading that wall post lol

Yeah you WOULD say that.
Mainly because if you were town and did read it you'd know that I'm town.

[mastina]

I’m done.
VOTE: mastina

You're literally game-throwing.

[mastina]

This is the first time a re-director has been mentioned and everyone else actions make sense up until now.

I've already shown why this is potentially not the case.

Mastina jump to me is just a last ditch effort to take the heat of themselves.

And this has been explained multiple times as to why it's not so.

If I were scum, the simplest and easiest way to win would be EITHER: kill Screenplay, use 6p mylo to win...
...OR: 1v1 Screenplay, lynch Screen, block Maki, and kill that same night to get a mylo mislynch.

Not fucking hard to understand, and yes.
I've shown more or less how I could pull either of those off. That I didn't is the proof that I'm town.

And once again.
I ask two simple questions.

Which have yet to be fucking answered.
In spite of repeatedly having put them forward.

Aside from the role result, for what reasons would I be scum?

Assuming I were scum, who would my scumbuddy be?

Screenplay you've given no answer two either.
Vaxkiller has given no answer to either.
gerryoat has kinda sorta given the latter, but hasn't given the former and even his callout of mastina-fitz lacks anything other than "lol that's the scumteam". (He isn't giving reasons, he's just stating it's the case as if stating it to be the case counts as reasoning. Hint: it doesn't.)

[mastina]

I have given it considerable thought. It irritates me to no end the fact that you have a VERY powerful role. One the scum team SHOULD NOT HAVE considering the game setup.

And yet you fucking vote me IN SPITE OF:
-My role being IN THE FUCKING OPENING POST AND THUS ALL BUT PROVEN TO BE IN THE GAME
-My role being proven to exist by multiple sources. Screenplay verified it, EeveeLution Army verified it, and so on and so forth.

Mastina, you rather blindly accepted my reasoning that I may have been the target of a scum NK on the day there was no NK

No I fucking didn't?
Show me where I did.

You don't even for a moment mention the possibility of screen being scum, which, in your shoes should be a pretty fucking high possibility!

Because he claimed a result and I got a result which corroborate one another rather than contradict one another. I have in fact considered Screenplay as scum...briefly. And then thrown that out pretty damn quickly. Because all the evidence fits with him as town; it does not fit with him as scum.

Instead you appear to white knight him, confusing everyone.

Great job! You just fucking proved I'm town.

Confusing everyone is my fucking townplay. It is the DEFINITION of a mastina towngame.
mastina as town makes no fucking sense.
mastina as scum is a perfectly rational, logical, reasonable player who makes the plays which make the most sense.

mastina as town is just so random and unpredictable and whimsical that how she reacts to things is never something you can predict.

I as scum will ALWAYS take the fucking simple route.

As town I pursue the route I feel is true, I feel is best, which is...
...Never the fucking simple path.

I rolecoped you to make sure you were telling the truth, because even thou I was town reading you at the time I needed to make sure.

Get this people.

Vaxkiller rolecopped me and thus is verifying my claim.

But what about this, then?

I have given it considerable thought. It irritates me to no end the fact that you have a VERY powerful role.

One the scum team SHOULD NOT HAVE considering the game setup

.

Literally the same fucking post. He acknowledges the scumteam SHOULDN'T HAVE THE ROLE THAT HE FUCKING KNOWS I HAVE.
And yet he is fucking voting me.

Because he is scum.

[mastina]

Why does scum RB not just kill tracker you and implicate an innocent townie today for the win?

I'll be back later tonight. I need to ponder this.

If Vaxkiller were town this would be accompanied by an unvote. I can even back this with meta tomorrow though right now I'm wrapping up my mafiascum activities for the night.

[mastina]

Well I don’t think it is vax.

Why?

I've given you all the fucking reasons why I think Vaxkiller is scum.

Why the fuck.
Do you think he's not.

[mastina]

Yeah, well neither the tracker OR RB'er was killed

And as previously covered multiple fucking times, this is all the proof in the world we're both town.

[mastina]

Because they don’t want someone giving Town points.

Screenplay.

Today.
is.
fucking.
MYLO.

MYLO.

You know what that abbreviation stands for, right?

Mislynch-and-lose.
MISLYNCH and you FUCKING LOSE.

Why the fuck do scum worry about points.
In fucking MYLO.

My point exactly.
They had good fucking reason to leave us both alive.

[mastina]

the fact I have to rethink my mastina tr SIGH

I swear to fucking god if we lose this game because you got fucking paranoid on my ass.

[mastina]

More text walls lol

Again. He says this. Because again. He wants people to write it off. Because again. If people read it. They would realize I'm fucking town and he's a scumfuck.

[mastina]

I mean all it took was one post for mastina to yell SCUMCLAIM! Look at post numbers.

Yes indeed. Pay attention to post numbers.
1287: "Vax is nullscum".
1401: Vax third in claim order, i.e. tertiary scumspect.
1559, calling your posting fake.
1561, calling you plausible scum.
1659, third on my scumlist as "possible, but less likely than Eevee/gerry", essentially.

I shifted into thinking havingfitz-gerry was the scumteam after that...
...But I shifted BACK for a combination of reasons. havingfitz's posting, remembering the above, and your posting all contributing. Let's take a look, shall we?
1943, Vaxkiller misreps my position and I call him out for his shit.
1945, I explain to him that my fucking role is literally in the fucking opening post and confirmed to exist. (Something HE SHOULD FUCKING KNOW AS HE CLAIMS TO HAVE ROLECOPPED ME AND THUS SHOULD HAVE VERIFICATION OF MY FUCKING CLAIM.)

1946

, where I call him out because he knows I don't fucking make this shit up.

1947, further backing that up.
1948, me calling him out on his blatant detachment between what he says is present, and what is ACTUALLY present.
1949, me shooting down Vaxkiller's faulty positioning and calling him out on instigating the 1v1.
1950, I say that havingfitz looks more town and Vaxkiller thanks to all of the above is looking like scum. 1980 is more along those same lines.
1993, I say that I am waiting on Vaxkiller's posting, but make it clear I hold him in high suspicion.

All of these came prior to my fucking vote in 2039.
So YES.
Please DO fucking read the posts.

Because my vote was anything but opportunistic.

You want an opportunistic vote, look no further than 1920. Had havingfitz not unvoted me literally right above, that'd have been an L-1 vote.

[mastina]

I really don't need to answer mastina questions

Of course not because answering my fucking questions is something inconvenient for a scum wincon.

but in case anyone hasnt figured it out, im at L1.

Nope! L-2.

___I KNOW___ everyone not on my wagon to be town because they arent insta voting me.

Yeah this is bullshit because this same reasoning applies to MY fucking wagon. I "know" everyone not on my wagon to be town because they aren't insta-voting me, but you don't see me calling them town because of it, do you? You see me calling them town on other merits.

I "know" my wagon contains the scumteam, but you don't see me calling them scum because they're on it, do you? You see me calling them scum on other fucking merits.

gerryoat refuses to consider Vaxkiller as scum.
Vaxkiller refuses to budge from calling me scum.

And they're doing nothing tangible about the whys.

Yet mastina pushes this bullshit "For waht reasons do you think im (mastina) is scum"

No, that's not bullshit.
That's called USING FUCKING REASONING.
USING FUCKING LOGIC.
USING FUCKING SCUMHUNTING.

Using actual fucking reasons.
Why the fuck am I scum.

I've asked this.
I've received nothing.

[mastina]

As I see it right now I’m voting with both scum.

No fucking shit, sherlock.

I've shown you every step of the fucking way.
Why the votes on me are bullshit.

You've continued to ignore me every step of the way.

I have laid out why Vaxkiller is scum.
You say he is town.
I ask you why the fuck he is town.
You give me nothing. Not a fucking thing.

I have laid out proof that the scum had set out the 1v1 in advance. It's right fucking there in Vaxkiller's posting.
You ignore it.
I have asked time and time again for actual fucking play-based reasons for me being scum--none have been given because

none fucking exist

; this is not my fucking scumgame and that is plain as day to anyone who has a fucking clue how I play the damn game.
I have asked time and time again for actual fucking reasoning for who I'd be scum with and why. I've not received the "who" from you, both the "who"s I've received have been from gerry/Vax and yet BOTH of them refuse to give hard reasons for why, except "just because".

I've shown why I am town.
I've shown why they are scum.
I've shown it by every fucking dimension possible.
And received in response?

Silence.
No responses. No engagement. No reading of my fucking walls, asking questions about them, engaging them. Just. Nothingness.

Why the fuck.
Do you suppose that is.
Why the fuck do you think nobody is fucking engaging me.
In spite of me raising those fucking points.

Hint: it's because the people who are voting me are fucking scumfucks, and you're a fucking gamethrowing moron because you're too.
fucking.
lazy.
ass.
to actually fucking pay attention and give the proper thought this actually fucking deserves.

Why the fuck is Vaxkiller not scum?
Why the fuck is gerryoat not scum?
Why the fuck aren't they scum together.

Not.
that.
damn.
hard.

[mastina]

This is honestly one of the main reasons I could figure out havingfitz was town.
You know what havingfitz did?

He actually fucking engaged me.

I brought points up, he took the time to respond to them. He brought points up, I took the time to respond to them. We took the time to engage each other and consider the factors present in the responses. That's why he's town. He put in the time and effort to figure out the possibilities and which are the most probable. I don't think that's a scumplay move. What does he gain? He doesn't really stand to have gotten anything as scum. He DOES gain something as town--solving the game. Figuring shit out. Making the correct connections.

He has given his reasons. He has given his perspective.

And you know what else he's had?

He's had people fucking ignore his reasons.

People aren't listening to him.
People aren't listening to me.

And that's no fucking coincidence.

But it's not because we're the fucking scumteam.

It's because you're a lazy fuck who is fucking gamethrowing because you can't. be. assed. to. fucking. read.

Prove me fucking wrong.

[mastina]

I'm trying to figure out how mastina is not conf scum rn

It'd have to be exactly vax gerry....hmmmm

Yes! Which is exactly what I'm fucking pushing. And have been pushing. I've asked for why the fuck either of them would be town and received radio silence.

It's really just that simple.

[mastina]

Was there anypoint in the game vax or gerry could've hammered mastina can someone quote it for me

None. gerryoat placed me at L-1, but Screenplay immediately unvoted prior to Vaxkiller being around.

That area of the game does reek of being a spot where scum were trying to quickhammer me though. One sec, lemme get you the link.

[mastina]

mastina (2)- Srceenplay, havingfitz

VOTE: Mastina

UNVOTE:

Here's the sequence.
Vaxkiller and gerryoat were both off the wagon, but once gerryoat cast his vote, Screenplay unvoted, stopping any chance at a hammer.

[mastina]

iirc today is the first day mastina has come under serious suspicion and so far today

This should tell you everything you need to fucking know right here and now.

Prior to today, there was no serious suspicion on me. What that means is that

there was no reasons given for me being scum

, and those have still yet to be given even today.

The "guilty" is the SINGULAR reason I am being fucking wagoned. The sole fucking reason. The one. And ONLY. fucking. reason. I have votes on me.
Is because of a fucking "guilty" which isn't even a fucking guilty. Which we know exactly why the fuck it's not a guilty.
I've explained how I have proof it's not.
I've been told "but that's unlikely!".
I gave further proof.
And received either silence or further cries of "but that's unlikely!" to that further proof.

I fucking showed you that I got a blocked-investigation result in spite of having targeted havingfitz.
I fucking showed you that I don't fucking lie about my targets as scum, and I fucking showed you that I don't fucking lie about my results as scum, and I fucking showed you that I don't do complicated shit in flagrant violation of occam's razor as scum when a much simpler easier path to victory exists.
I fucking showed that.
And my only fucking response?
"But that's unlikely!".

No fucking REASONS why it's unlikely...except repeating ad naseum the same "we have no proof!". When I gave the fucking proof and it was fucking ignored. Because it's inconvenient to pay attention. Because it's fucking inconvenient for the proof to be admitted, since if it existed, my point would be validated.

[mastina]

^ ah...so they did have a chance to hammer you for the span of 1 post....however many minutes that was.

One minute, if that. I don't have seconds enabled because I don't know how to make that work, but:

VOTE: Mastina

UNVOTE:

...Literally immediately after the vote, he unvoted.

[mastina]

I've explained how I have proof it's not.
I've been told "but that's unlikely!".
I gave further proof.
And received either silence or further cries of "but that's unlikely!" to that further proof.

I fucking showed you that I got a blocked-investigation result in spite of having targeted havingfitz.
I fucking showed you that I don't fucking lie about my targets as scum, and I fucking showed you that I don't fucking lie about my results as scum, and I fucking showed you that I don't do complicated shit in flagrant violation of occam's razor as scum when a much simpler easier path to victory exists.
I fucking showed that.
And my only fucking response?
"But that's unlikely!".

No fucking REASONS why it's unlikely...except repeating ad naseum the same "we have no proof!". When I gave the fucking proof and it was fucking ignored. Because it's inconvenient to pay attention. Because it's fucking inconvenient for the proof to be admitted, since if it existed, my point would be validated.

Now I remember what I wanted to add to this.

The reasons for justifying votes on me involve a fallacy: the wiki definition sucks ass, but it's circular reasoning.
"It's unlikely to have happened because we have no proof. Oh, that proof you provided? It's unlikely to have happened. It's unlikely to have happened because we have no proof."

That's literally the fucking "logic" you're buying into by refusing to refute my points. And it is absolutely a steaming pile of horseshit.

[mastina]

strongly considering voting Vax rn

Do so. Make the dueling fucking wagons and prove my damn point.

[mastina]

VOTE: Vax

<3

[mastina]

fitz could be fooling me and they put in a lot of effort if so and good on them if that's the case

I mean.
Strictly speaking.
If scum lack the XP to kill tonight for whatever reason, and/or lack the ability to redirect tonight for whatever reason.

Then scumteams ruled out from not hammering aren't actually ruled out since they have knowledge the town does not. (I.e., hammering wouldn't guarantee a win.)

But that's strictly speaking. As a technicality.

Realistically. It's just Vaxkiller and gerryoat.

[mastina]

(For instance, a rather realistic way for them to be unable to win the game: upon a mislynch, if they have to choose between a redirect and a kill, then if they choose the wrong one, they don't get the desired outcome. In short, Maki vigging scum with scum killing produces a gamestate where scum die and thus don't instawin. Maki holstering with scum redirecting and NOT killing produces a gamestate where tomorrow dawns with five alive and no bodies. Since scum don't know what Maki will do--and Maki, you absolutely shouldn't say what you'll do--they would have no way of knowing. The only way a mislynch is a surefire win is if they can BOTH redirect AND kill. But it ultimately doesn't matter. My reasons for thinking Vaxkiller and gerryoat are scum are independent of their votes today. That vice-versa isn't so should be a clue tho.)

[mastina]

Btw. I don't want to too terribly rush you, but:

(expired on 2017-12-04 03:00:00)

We have just a little over two days until deadline.

That does give us

some

time.
Some.

But it doesn't give enough.

I can write a contingency plan for what happens if we no-lynch (basically it involves Maki holstering the vig shot as a precaution and training, with us doing the best efforts to coordinate actions between Screenplay and I with Vaxkiller/havingfitz/gerryoat all being held accountable for actions), but I'm not optimistic I can make a lock-tight plan. My fear is that EITHER:
-Scum kill bringing us to lylo with us having less-than-ideal results...
OR:
-Scum don't kill, but shut the strategy down without any loss and even potentially gain.

A no-lynch PROBABLY won't be the end of the world.
But a no-lynch certainly isn't what we want. I can only make so much lemonade from the smallest of a singular lemon.

A scum lynch would just be better in every way.
And we are running out of time.

We do have SOME time left.
Some.

But we don't have much. It's the zone where we're not panicking, but where some caution is needed. Where we need to be aware of it, where we need to have it in our minds, if not in the forefront then at least in the back of our heads. There isn't much time left to talk. There's just enough for Screenplay to come in and stop being a moron, essentially.

[mastina]

Who’s the hold out?

You. You're not voting Vaxkiller. That's what we need to end the day.

[mastina]

It'd have to be exactly vax gerry....hmmmm

Why not Mastina and fitz?

For a start?

havingfitz began the day in mylo bussing me, and vice-versa too.

I am many things.

A cross-busser in mylo is not one of them.

[mastina]

(So I had a "cross the streams" where I mixed two different trains of thoughts--"That would require havingfitz beginning the day bussing me" with "havingfitz 'bussed' me'". As in, I took half from one and half from the other. Mostly the latter, but a bit from the former in that I didn't put the quotation marks I meant to around bussing, but you should get the idea.
Why not mastina-havingfitz?
havingfitz began the day in mylo "bussing" me, and vice-versa.
For us to be scum, havingfitz would need to have began the day in mylo bussing me, and vice-versa.
Regardless of which wording you use, same end result. I am many things, but a cross-busser is not among them. And yes. As scum I am going to be the mastermind who plans out what scum do. Meaning that I absolutely would be the one who would plan things out in a havingfitz-mastina scumteam and bussing in mylo is something I would never abide by.)

[mastina]

I do agree that Mastina and fitz are both playing better than the rest as of now.

Play > role. 100% of the time.
It's my guiding philosophy as a player as both alignments frankly. (Like I said, I don't tell flagrantly false lies as scum. That'd be emphasizing role.)

[mastina]

That's a big thought for me too gerry was vanilla to start also so I'm like...hm

This is why it's better to lynch Vaxkiller.
gerryoat COULD have upgraded into a redirector in spite of starting vanilla.
Could.

More likely is that Vaxkiller the player we haven't fucking confirmed is the redirector.
So.

[mastina]

Vax's upgrade is a pretty good excuse for mastina's rbing the kill compared to a "bp" because a vax kill makes no sense ever

Yes THis is so true, so why didnt mastina PRESS THE ISSUE?

I have, all day.

If you're referring to at the time.

See also, a combination of it being a quicklynch and also me being distracted more or less.

[mastina]

So you guys have 2 scum caught?

Yes. You and gerryoat.

[mastina]

mastina you're ignoring me as well. You said I could be redirector, but based on the 2 blocks I couldn't have had enough XP to upgrade.

You're probably not the redirector; I've already said that. I haven't cared to look into if it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for you to be the redirector, and I don't need to. You not being probable for the redirector is good enough.

It is EITHER:
-Incredibly improbable for you to be the redirector
OR:
-Literally impossible for you to be the redirector.

In either case. It doesn't matter. My point is that Vaxkiller is the better lynch.

[mastina]

I'm town. Unfortunately, family night is past scheduled to start, so I can't make a contingency plan for in case Vaxkiller is telling the truth. I don't think he is; I still think he's scum. But if he's telling the truth, ideally I'd have a plan in place to minimize the chance of a loss.

IF VAXKILLER FLIPS TOWN:
Right now the best I can think of: I will randomly choose between no block/block fitz/block gerry.
Maki will make her best call on choosing between a vig/no vig.
Screenplay tracks whoever.

IF VAXKILLER FLIPS REDIRECTOR:
Screenplay tracks me;
I block gerryoat;
Maki shoots havingfitz. (I think this is the best plan? Maki and I can switch but I'm selfish; I wanna target gerry. )

IF VAXKILLER FLIPS GOON:
Screenplay tracks gerryoat;
I choose randomly between blocking and not blocking gerryoat;
Maki holsters the vig.

These probably have holes though because I'm literally making them while distracted. Sorry.

[mastina]

"I NEVER LIE AS SCUM" MASTINA
WAHT the fuck was that shit about?

I don't.
Name a single scumgame of mine where I lie.

They don't exist.

It's not a trust tell, obviously.
But it's a pretty damn solid meta tell.

[mastina]

Oh wait, shes a fucking roleblocker.

Exactly. If I were scum, I'd have no reason to lie about winning.

But I'm not scum, so.

I'll use your flip to determine what to do tonight.

[mastina]

mastina never lies

Believe it or not...I actually didn't!

...

...Mostly.

I actually targeted havingfitz, as I said.
I actually did not get an initial result in spite of being entitled to one. As I said.
These really happened. They weren't lies; they happened exactly as I said they did.

The only lie I told was once the mod had sent me the result, what said result was.

My scumplay involves telling 90-98% of the truth, just mixed in with the ever so slightest of falsehoods.

[mastina]

maki...get your head out of your ass in regards to gerry, thanks

I mean...I was telling you this was his scumgame the entire game!

[mastina]

Well done, gerry and mastina. Sorry I got bombed.

That was out of your control. yurkin is the town MVP this game. Not only did yurkin turn a shitty role into an awesome one, yurkin went from vigbait to literally vigging scum. You couldn't have stopped that and we couldn't have thought of stopping it, either.

It was a little inconvenient that you died having saved your XP while gerry used his leaving us without any to make the next kill, BUTSTILL. Not something you could have reasonably anticipated. <3

[mastina]

Very good scum theatre between gerry and Mastina.

From the moment Jae and I landed scum with gerry, we intended to push that. It was unanimous between both heads that we'd push gerry as hard as we could. We fully expected to fail, since gerry is just damn unlynchable for some mysterious reason. Even with scum being the strongest advocates for his head, he couldn't die. And we were banking on that ability from the get-go.

It was a neat collaboration every step of the way.

[mastina]

Also, the mod hasn't linked to it yet, but here's the scum PT. You can read what happened over the course of the game there.

[mastina]

Although to be fair probably at least half the neighborhoods would have included mastina.

I also specialize in neighborhood manipulation, so.
That choice woulda been +EV for us, honestly, but I thought advocating for rolecop was better overall.

[mastina]

mastina is bashing my setup and it makes me a bit insecure even though I know she's only doing it to push an agenda

I was, indeed, pushing an agenda; I think the game was overall balanced.

[mastina]

You lynch a guilty 100% of the time when it's not Lylo

The problem is...it WAS lylo.

That's what made my bullshit narrative work. The idea that scum were mislynching me was viable given that.

[mastina]

You can't vote to lynch? You're in (assumed) MYLO. YOU CAN NO LYNCH.

I brought this up in the scum PT. Were I town I'd have suggested we utilize the unique game mechanic we had at our disposal to break the deadlock: the block function went entirely forgotten once we unlocked the lynch function, but it is something which would've been BETTER than a no-lynch and better than a mislynch. Not as good as a scum lynch, obv, but a scum lynch was almost assuredly never gonna happen.

[mastina]

Well done, scum. This was not an easy setup for you, despite the extremely delayed introduction of lynching. Yurkin rocked it by taking out your strongest role just at the point when he was about to become even more powerful.

Mad props do go to yurkin for turning what would have been a roflstomp into something with a semblance of being a fair game. The guilty track from Screenplay also was inconvenient to deal with, so respect for that not to mention the vote.

I am disappointed the spoilered dead thread is ranting about how obviously scum I was though and shitting on Maki. That's exactly the attitude I was hoping they wouldn't have. Alas.

I personally feel like I did earn the victory there. I set up scumteams such that nobody had it right except for havingfitz for the briefest of times (and he talked himself out of it later on which I can't fault him for), and I was putting my all into the game. So many times I put so much effort above and beyond the normal call of duty here. And, hey.

I had a fucking guilty on me and at different times had 3/4 town players thinking the guilty wasn't a guilty, in spite of that being the simplest solution. You can attribute that to an idiot town all you'd like, but idiot towns tend to sheep guilties mindlessly. Something had to have thrown them from sheeping guilty into not doing so and I don't think it's arrogant to say I played a part in that.

This is, 100%, the hardest-fought win I've ever had, and the best scumgame I've ever played hands-down. And I think I have the right to be proud of it.

[mastina]

Definitely didn’t see that team.

I mean.
We were winning the game no matter what.

Nobody saw the scumteam, except ever so briefest for moments, havingfitz who talked his way out of it. And even had he not, even if he held firm to the idea of a mastina-gerryoat scumteam, he'd had eaten either a vig or a mislynch for pushing that "ludicrous" idea once one of us had flipped.

I could have done a LOT less and still won this game, just by letting my lynch go through and trusting in gerry to be townread by the survivors.

But.

Instead. I just REALLY wanted to beat a guilty, for personal reasons if nothing else. It was even arguably detrimental to my wincon since by doing so I at several times risked gerryoat being lynched in my stead. And every time I didn't make effort to lynch gerryoat, I risked exposing our distancing for what it was.

Still, tho. Had a blast efforting it up that hard in order to get the personal satisfaction of having earned a win rather than being given the win. If anything, the TOWN was given a win--a mislynch-in-the-making suicide-bombed scum, and a second scum was guiltied, with a vig, a backup, and a tracker all on the board with the final scum at the time being out of XP.

I wasn't sure even I could pull it off...but I WANTED to. For bragging rights, if nothing else. I beat a fucking guilty on me. And also, the energy I put in would have hopefully worked to further frame a particular narrative. (The idea being that havingfitz was scum.) It was a blast, and it was also stressful-as-HELL. SO many points where I thought it was over. SO many times where I was legit panicking. SO many times where my heart was racing, adrenaline-fueled, as I had shaky hands and was on the edge of my seat.

Even if it hadn't worked, I'd say it was worth it. That it did was just a bonus. <3

I do think the town did pretty well overall and they shouldn't be bashing one another and blaming it on town incompetence. Ginngie had good reads. Dunnstral was gamesolving pretty good. Vaxkiller was genuinely threatening at points. havingfitz was the only person to call the correct team (even if he later rescinded it). Screenplay got a guilty. And yurkin suicide-bombed scum. You can't say those were bad things.

But I maintain my opinion from the scum PT was accurate--make the right nightkill, and there was no way the town was going to nail all three scum. gerryoat is annoyingly like a cockroach. He stinks, he's filthy, he's an insect crawling all over you, and yet when you try to stomp him into oblivion, he just. won't. die. By utilizing this, we could set up convincing interactions, soyeah. That team wasn't going to lose this game.

[mastina]

I want to address mastina's account of what happened around the start of Day 6, where mastina first claimed to have not received the result she was owed from me and then later received it, and she also claimed to have had a PM conversation with me where I refused to answer her questions directly but ended up accidentally revealing the information she was looking for. Aside from the last part about me accidentally revealing the answer to her question (which I believe was rhetoric to support her claim), this is all true. I did forget to send her result initially, and I responded to her redirector questions as though she were town (which in most cases led to me saying "I can't say).

Here are the PMs for the curious, since I figure I might as well share.

Spoiler: Series of PMs

Day 6 begins!

You have 1 XP.

So...I did not see havingfitz do anything?

My bad. Sorry, it was 2:30 in the morning
You blocked the following action:

Each night, you may target a player. If that player is aligned with you and dies that night, you will gain their role, replacing your own.

If roleblocker A roleblocked redirector B, and redirector B redirected A to C, who would have priority?
Could busdrivers self-busdrive?

The answer to both questions is: that is not public knowledge.

If MY roleblock was used on Player A, and Player A redirected me to Player B, who would have priority?

ASSUMING that a busdrive could self-busdrive,
If MY roleblock was used on Player A, and Player A busdrove A<->B, who would hold priority?

Okay.

I can answer the second one. In that case, the busdriver would get priority and you would end up blocking B.

Regarding the first one, that information is inherent in the design of the redirector, which is not a normal role and does not have a standardized set of interactions. Therefore, although it is related to your role, your role is tangential to the interaction, and so only the redirector would know the answer to that question.

I try as a mod to answer only the questions that I feel have a definite answer in my mind, so that my players can have the same general picture of action resolution that I do (and have ONLY general information as opposed to information that reveals something about the setup). Situations like the busdriver one I would always resolve that way unless the roleblocker's PM were specifically written to supersede redirection. However the redirection situation has no such standard in my mind and I would make that decision as a balance concern, during the setup design.

Sorry I took so long to respond; it's because I'm trying to explain as best I can what makes me not want to answer that question. If you want to discuss it postgame, we definitely can.

Like I said. 90-98% the truth, just a tad bit of...an alternative spin on things.

[mastina]

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the setup as this was my first attempt at creating a complicated setup centered around an original mechanic.

I really liked the mechanic. Many, many times has an attempt been made for there to be some sort of evolution in roles, hybridizing RPG mechanics with mafia. Most of them never pan out because it's so easy to fuck things up. Yet you didn't. You basically nailed it, I feel.

[mastina]

if that is your best scum game you'd best kill me every time you roll scum because I will destroy you and would have if I'd been alive

The key word there is "if".

Keep in mind that as scum I tailor my arguments to the gamestate. I use my inside knowledge of every player and specifically manipulate my narrative to make the greatest use of the knowledge I have. I knew gerryoat was scum, yet nigh-unlynchable in spite of him being his normal blatantly obvious scum self. I knew how to manipulate perception of how events had transpired. I know havingfitz well enough where I know how to engage him and if necessary, beat him in a battle. I know Vaxkiller well enough where I can make a fair idea of how to best utilize his positions and turn them against him.

Honestly the only player in the game at that point I didn't really have the best of ideas on was Screenplay. Which is probably exactly why he was able to get the guilty in the first place--I legit didn't see it coming because it hadn't occurred to me that he would think to use a loyal track on me. But even then, I had a fair idea that I could make him doubt his guilty result simply by virtue of framing the right narrative, which gerryoat helped me do wonderfully. (Basically, I asked gerryoat to cast a vote on me which LOOKED suspicious, and sure enough, Screenplay unvoted immediately after said vote.)

My narrative is tailored to those who are alive. My D6 scumplay would never have held against Ginngie, but my D1 scumplay DID hold against Ginngie, at least well enough where she wasn't out for my head. Because she was dead, I could pull stunts that I wouldn't have otherwise been able to pull.

One of the scariest points in the game for me was when it looked like Vaxkiller might be replaced. A new slot could be a trade downward in skill, but more likely would have been someone trading UPWARDS in ability, someone I

hadn't

prepared a narrative for and would have difficulty doing so in live time.

My scumplay didn't need to fool you because you were already dead.

If you were alive then Screenplay would have been dead, meaning I wouldn't have a guilty on me, and further meaning that the entirety of my D6 play would have been different. My D6 play revolved around me having a guilty investigation on me; if that guilty didn't exist, I'd have not been playing the same way. My scumplay in a world where you were alive and Screenplay was dead would have been a completely different animal.

Even had you been alive, I also knew that you with an accurate guess wouldn't be getting it entirely. If you had one scum the other would likely be out of sight. Even IF you had both, you had previously suffered from being blocked. That the town was willing to block you (entirely without me on that wagon mind you) was indicative also of willingness to mislynch you and frankly I can out-argue you any time I want. It simply wasn't necessary since we decided that you were overall the best kill if out of no other reason because you'd be annoying.

We honestly could have killed anyone that night, frankly. At that point we weren't really thinking of the absolute best because as far as we were concerned...there wasn't any absolute best, all options were equally as viable. Whoever we killed was going to be a player who was mislynchable. Whoever we didn't kill was going to be mislynchable in mylo. If we had let you live though, our strategy for what we'd do would be different.

[mastina]

I just don't get it

You don't get it because you don't understand how scum manipulate the gamestate. Until you do, you'll never progress as a player.

You can be the most obvious scum in the world, but if you can make the town not want to lynch you, that's all it takes in order to win.

I didn't need to look town to the dead.

I needed to not look like scum to the living.

And even when Screenplay voted me he admitted that by play I didn't look like scum, essentially. (In fact he investigated me expecting to investigate town.)

Scum win by making town think other lynches are better options.
I did that. And I did it incredibly well.

I also was raising valid points. I was scum, yes. But I raised questions which nobody could give answers for. Nobody gave reasons for why my play was scum. Nobody gave me who was my scumbuddy, essentially. Now me being logical, me being reasonable to the point where my points have no flaws in them, is actually a huge fucking scumtell of mine. (Not that I was gonna let you know that during the game. ) But the simple fact is that--objectively speaking--I WAS raising points for why I was town.

And those points were left uncountered. Even had you been alive, you wouldn't have countered them. Even had you been alive, you wouldn't have answered my challenge. I was playing pretty close to how I would as town, and thus had a lot of reasons backing me for why I would be town. (Including lacking the support of a scumbuddy, since gerry was bussing me. No scumbuddy support is a towntell of mine under normal circumstances so I was absolutely justified in bringing it up as a point in my defense.)

You wouldn't have been able to pick up on the 10% differences between town and scum and emphasize them. And I guarantee you, had you focused on something I legit do as town, that would spell the death of your attempt to lynch me because I'd be able to show I do it as town. There

were

things which made me blatantly scum. But I was raising points which were suggesting strongly that signs indicated I was town. You don't get it because you don't get that those things matter. It's subtle nuances in arguments which make the difference. Controlling the flow of how things go.

The separation between town and scum is not usually obvious. It's not in how you react.
It's in the details. It's in the smaller stuff. And I'm not talking about "slips". I'm talking about what a person is doing, versus what a person should be doing as an alignment.

[mastina]

Mastina I think you did well. You did exactly what you should have done. Give reasonable doubt. Even if we got your lynch to go through I don’t think Gerry would have been under suspicion.

<3

[mastina]

IT WAS NOT REASONABLE THOUGH!!! not in the slightest

I MADE it reasonable.

That's what you don't get.

Maybe from a technical standpoint it wouldn't look reasonable.

But I MADE it look reasonable. I MADE people have doubts. I MADE people second-guess.

If reasonable doubt doesn't exist naturally, my job as scum is to CREATE it. And I did. I created a narrative, and I

backed it with evidence

. That evidence was something which was 90% true. I wrote a narrative which was utilizing something mostly the truth. Something which is mostly the truth is, inherent in its nature, going to appear reasonable. I told you during the game: "The best lie is the truth". I told the truth, and turned the truth into a lie. Making reasonable, out of something not reasonable.

A narrative which has no evidence you can call bullshit. A narrative which is backed by seemingly-hard-facts is much harder to call bullshit. I gave the facts, and while the narrative was not lock-solid because it did contain a lie, it was still mostly true. And mostly true is enough to make "reasonable doubt". Doubt, off of a reasonable level of evidence presented to make people think what happened may not have happened thanks to contradictory evidence.

[mastina]

most likely, that's a bunch of bullshit, and then it just kept piling on! oif

The thing is, it WASN'T bullshit.
It was 90% the truth.
Mostly true, with just a slight deception thrown in to avert the catastrophic.

I could spin a narrative because I had a strong grounding upon which to do so: something which was

actually true

. If the truth is on the side of the scum--and it was--then it makes the scum look much better because they can give evidence without lying, without bullshitting, without the need for piling lie on top of lie on top of lie. I never did. The position I held remained the same all day. I received a result late. Screenplay received no result. I introduced a falsehood in stating I blocked an investigative action, the 10% lie in an otherwise-true story.

With the truth on my side, reasonable doubt was around. Yeah there was a lot of bullshit I spewed. But people who were calling what I was saying bullshit were also themselves saying a lot of bullshit, because I legit, genuinely, had a grounding in reality. Grounding in reality = contradicts the existing guilty = reason to doubt the guilty.

I did exaggerate when I said I don't lie even as scum. It's more accurate to say that as scum, I make use of truth manipulation, exaggeration piled on top of subtle rearrangement of facts. And yet that strategy works. Time and time again. Because if you tell the truth, at least mostly the truth. Then the town will have an innate way of KNOWING you were telling the truth. The town can sense it. They have something of a sixth sense when it comes to feeling genuineness. And as scum, I was genuine.

If you think otherwise, that's a failure on your end. Because I wasn't insincere. The whole time, I was genuine in virtually everything I said. So with genuine posting, I made people think that it was possible I wasn't scum.

[mastina]

you've barely played with me and to say you can out argue me is quite arrogant

It's not arrogance.

It's experience.

There's only a handful of players in the current site meta who can out-argue a scumastina.

Sure!
Yeah.
Out-arguing a town-mastina is, indeed, fully possible. I am reasonably okay at town, but my lack of self-control as town more or less is self-sabotaging. (I do try to work on it. I don't succeed very well because I'm too damn impulsive and that's never going away even if its absence would make me ten times better as town.)

Yet as scum I HAVE that self-control. I know precisely when I need to post and when I need to not post. I know when I need to be around, and I know what I need to do when I'm around. (See also, I tailor my arguments to my audience.)

Is it possible for me to lose a scumgame, yes. It is.
But I've yet to lose an argument (even in spite of losing) as scum since playing on mastina. Every single time, I've won. Star Wars, WWF, my fight with Marluxia/Nacho in Organization XIII (a great example of "winning the battle, losing the war" so to speak in that I beat him and got my mislynch but couldn't carry the game solo since my scum partners were both long-dead...butstill, I out-argued fucking NACHOMAMMA8 of all people), this game on every day we had a lynch, heck even in The Mystery at King's Landing (for what little value arguing as a traitor had).

As town sure I lose bundleloads of arguments. I lose them more than I win them.
But as scum I've not lost once. Mostly because I choose to make arguments only when I know I can win. And if I can't win an argument, then I make a way for me to not need to win it. (AKA, I fucking nightkill the player I'd be incapable of out-arguing. )

And personally speaking for the record.
Your track record when it comes to arguing for scum lynches?

Not so great.
Even assuming you're actually arguing for the lynch of scum...pray tell, how many of those do you actually get?

For instance, what was the game-deciding (mis)lynch in the aforementioned Mid-Scummer Night's Dream?
The scumteam didn't even need to all be on that lynch because enough town were willing to lynch you. Do you blame the entire town for that? You certainly don't think you got out-argued by scum given your stance on LLD.

So absolutely yes.
If I had to fight against you, I would win, were I to even feel that necessary.
I mostly wouldn't.

Because it doesn't matter how fucking accurate your reads are.
If you don't understand the process by which town players...well, process information, you'll be unable to sway them to your side against a scumteam with inside information. I've yet to see evidence of you having ever done so. The opposite, in fact; I see you blame it on the incompetence of those players consistently ranting at how it's their fault. And as long as you're blaming them, you won't be winning yourself any favors over others.

[mastina]

no, you didn't make it reasonable, you wore the will of people down by giant walls of 'ugh'

Those walls weren't 'ugh'. You call them 'ugh' because I was scum.

But the walls contained actual valid points.

I was raising good reasons for me to not be scum.

And guess what? The person most prominently dismissing the wall as being "ugh" was gerryoat...who was scum.

So that even furthered my narrative, my point as being valid, increasing my stance.

The walls weren't just words of bullshit.
They had actual logic backing them.
They had reasoning. They had justification. They had grounding in reality.
They were saying something which was

not accurate

, yes.
They were selling a narrative of a gamestate which wasn't the full actual case.

But they had a basis in actual facts.

And as long as you think they didn't.
You'll never understand why it worked and I won.
Because you'd be clinging to something which wasn't actually the case.

When I wrote the walls the key to my success was that they

didn't

have "ugh" in them.
The key to my success is that I kept things relatively simple and reasonable. I kept things close as could be to the actual reality.

And that is the polar opposite of "ugh".

I did spam my points a lot.
I did post a lot.
And I am naturally verbose.
These might make you FEEL like going "ugh" to what I write.
But the actual

content

of what I write was anything but.

[mastina]

By the way, I nominated Something_Smart for a Scummy for this game; if you agree with my opinion, you should express your support in-thread and/or submit a nomination of your own (which would effectively act as a second/third/nth of the nomination). I think he earned it. <3

[mastina]

Also setup was fun, I would love a part 2 and would play in one.

Also this. <3