Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Havo]

The strangest looking vote to me on my wagon would be Awoo.

Why is it strange?

There was no commentary with it. No reason. So it felt a bit opportunistic but like I said the post was an open invitation to vote me, so no biggie.

[Alexcellent]

So my thoughts on the whole Lexa thing -

She likes Awoo's case on numberQ, votes for numberQ, but then shortly after abandons that endeavour in a kneejerk reaction to Mumble's vote? When I was initially skimming, I figured dropping a vote on Lexa right after Mumble would be good for a laugh and to see how she reacts to more pressure. Don't really like the 1v1 between Mumble and Lexa. I don't understand the anger there on Lexa's part, but then I don't really have any meta to go on with her. Maybe worth checking out some of her old games. But I don't like 123, trying to dismiss pressure I generally find to come from scum more than town IMO. And I don't like the 163 jump from Mumble to me. As Awoo mentioned it does appear like Lexa comes across as being cornered into that vote. I don't really like leaving Mumble with the reason that scum wouldn't be so obtuse. Sounds like a phony excuse to get out of a vote that you regret. And moving to someone that's basically inactive doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

I just dislike that Lexa appears to have viewed the most scummy thing in the game to that point as being a few empty votes and it makes me think she had no real reads or nothing to gon before. Granted its early still but I felt more relevant things happened than Mumble and I voting her. And the way she reacted to the votes is pretty bad. I'm keen to see how she responds to her wagon though.

I feel like Mumble vs Lexa is TvS, so the current wagons are interesting.

[Alexcellent]

How is not giving someone a chance to claim playing to your win condition, if you're town?

Long story short.

The early Day 1 claim from threat of quick hammer isn’t very trustworthy anyway.

And I HATE seeing PRs outed on Day 1. So I prefer this method very early on.

It’s controversial, I understand that. But it’s my preferred approach to Day 1.

Is killing a PR D1 better than outing a PR D1? (just wondering)

[Alexcellent]

Just a few other things

I don't hate the numberQ case. And in particular 54 struck me as off.

Everyone who was or is on Havo's wagon: why were you or are you on Havo's wagon? None of those votes looked random, so why'd you do it? I'm on it because I wanted to form a wagon so I could ask questions like this.

When you answer why you're on a wagon before anyone's asked you why you are on said wagon, it makes me think that you feel like there's something wrong about being on that wagon, and hence need to pre-emptively give an explanation for it. I just got a very guilty and self conscious vibe from this.
So, maybs scum in numberQ

[Alexcellent]

What's everyone's thoughts on Luca Blight?

Apart from being a pretty good villain in Suikoden 2.

Null at the moment, don't have enough to go on

[Alexcellent]

getting townie feelings from awoo, havo and cedrick. I think Mumble is probs town based on the 1v1 with Lexa feeling like TvS, and I think Lexa is the scum in that interaction.

scummy feelings from Lexa and Q.

Still looking into others.

[rb]

So my thoughts on the whole Lexa thing -

She likes Awoo's case on numberQ, votes for numberQ, but then shortly after abandons that endeavour in a kneejerk reaction to Mumble's vote? When I was initially skimming, I figured dropping a vote on Lexa right after Mumble would be good for a laugh and to see how she reacts to more pressure. Don't really like the 1v1 between Mumble and Lexa. I don't understand the anger there on Lexa's part, but then I don't really have any meta to go on with her. Maybe worth checking out some of her old games. But I don't like 123, trying to dismiss pressure I generally find to come from scum more than town IMO. And I don't like the 163 jump from Mumble to me. As Awoo mentioned it does appear like Lexa comes across as being cornered into that vote. I don't really like leaving Mumble with the reason that scum wouldn't be so obtuse. Sounds like a phony excuse to get out of a vote that you regret. And moving to someone that's basically inactive doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

I just dislike that Lexa appears to have viewed the most scummy thing in the game to that point as being a few empty votes and it makes me think she had no real reads or nothing to gon before. Granted its early still but I felt more relevant things happened than Mumble and I voting her. And the way she reacted to the votes is pretty bad. I'm keen to see how she responds to her wagon though.

I feel like Mumble vs Lexa is TvS, so the current wagons are interesting.

Why is Mumble vs Lexa TvS, and not say, TvT?

[rb]

@Cedrick - my vote on you at the time was more just not really feeling the Lexa wagon, and you were the only other player I'd been suspicious of, since I hadn't really paid much attention to many players yet. I moved the vote pretty soon after once I found a better scumread.

I'm not entirely sold on you town but I think there's multiple other players more likely to flip scum, which at the time I vote you that wasn't the case.

[Alexcellent]

A lot of it is gut based on Lexa's reactions and like she's immediately trying to kill Mumble's vote's credibility. I guess frustrated town could react in that way, but I feel it's more of a scumtell. That and the fact that I just don't view Mumble's vote on her as being strong enough cause to drop everything and go after unless she's just posing as town, doesn't have a town motivated reason to be on the numberQ wagon or scumhunt elsewhere and therefore aggressively reacts to the wagon on her.

[Awoo]

aw shit another townie joined the game whats up dude

[Beefster]

@mod, I think Lexa's at L-1, latest vote count is missing northsidegal's vote in 237.

I counted that vote. northsidegal is on Lexa's wagon.

[Lexa]

finished moving aka prodge post see y'all tomorrow

This kind of post doesn't usually count for prod dodging, but I'll allow it in this case as a sort of retroactive V/LA.

[northsidegal]

Also I'm interested in Lexa's reaction to being at L-1. If you weren't under pressure with Mumble's vote, surely you are now.

this feels like a really weird thing to say. why bother just announcing this rather than doing something in relation to lexa or putting on pressure yourself? you ask so many other questions, why not question lexa about the scum on his wagon or the speed of it or whatever the same way you did with havo?

also, if you don't think that the argument that you're asking questions for the sake of asking questions is invalid and if you actually care about getting answers to them, you should probably show some sign that you notice when people just flat out ignore your questions like rb did to this question:

VOTE: Cedrick

lexa's speedwagon makes me iffy actually

Does it make you iffier than the Havo speedwagon?

[northsidegal]

Q is desperately searching for reasons to forge brand new scumreads on low content slots. scum throwing suspicion where there is nullness.

The response to this is "I am just trying to sort low content slots and increase content ... etc...????" which is why it's a safe move even if it gets called out. This is not a valid response because "this post feels weird", use of unlikely incriminating hypothetical in response to 228, another useless question over semantics in 244. Yes it is asking for clarification on something. But what is the answer going to be to something like this? You can't quantify "stock". Stuff like this doesn't help you sort slots.

Overall just a lazy sunday, waiting for lots of different people to post. How was church?

can you clarify why what he's doing is scum searching for reasons and not just sorting low content slots? from what i understand you're saying that the answers to his questions don't actually help him to sort people, but i didn't really get the same feeling looking over his posts and i'd like to hear this in more specifics from you. what i would levy against numberq is asking questions that he doesn't care about the answers to, not whose answers are meaningless.

[northsidegal]

awoo, can you explain your read on lexa? i feel like you've kind of been skirting around that slot the entire game and there are things that stick out as slightly unnatural in the way that it happened. you come off of the mumble/lexa interaction thinking this:

Don't like lexa's new vote either. Reads pretty "I have been cornered into doing this". Also doesn't make sense as a vote in the first place when alex's opener says "im busy right now". Town doesn't get cornered into doing things for fear of contradicting themselves, town does whatever the hell they want and can get away with it 'cause their PM is green.
And when I look at the exchange its makes sense from a "lexa is informed and knows mumble is town already" perspective.

162 kinda implies you think (already know?) mumble is town when you tell him how to approach this situation from a town POV, seems strange given the exchange that just happened, he just misrepped and pushed a false narrative on you FYPOV (ignoring the content of my post lol, thats why its from your POV) why do you speak to him like he's town?

Maybe lexa is scum?

and then just a bit later you switch your vote from q to mumble with this justification.

I don't particularly like either of the people voting him. Also what luca said about mumble +1, but we all need to see more of mumble/lexa before making better reads, 'cause like I said that sort of interaction is just going to serve to make both sides look scummy. +1 to cedrick for looking out for fake aggression, mafia does that for sure.

VOTE: mumble -- Q hasn't posted in a while I gotta stay current. This looks good so far

rb - is Lexa VS mumble TvT, SvT, TvS, SvS? Your posts make it hard to discern what you are reading, please comment on this.

why vote mumble over lexa? why did you move your vote when you did, right after rb voted mumble?

[Luca Blight]

Struggling reading most of this day. Maybe it’s just late but I read and don’t seem to retain any of it. Or maybe it’s just that none of it is sticking out to me yet. But that’s very typical Day 1 for me.

Mumbles seems sketchy but isn’t that always Mumbles?

Luca seems intentionally neutral.

It's quite ironic how you say I'm being

'intentionally neutral

' at the end of a post where you were being pretty neutral yourself.

VOTE: Mumble

So far, mumble, as well as a couple others, have been rubbing me the wrong way reading their posts. Not sure on a lot of things at the moment, but this seems like a better idea than havo at the moment

Care to expand on “a couple others”?

Kinda hard to expand on them when I don't know why.

I just have "this doesn't sit well with me" type reactions on Awoo, Cedric, luca, lexa, and north

Not sure why, but I do

You could at least point out exactly what it is that doesn't sit well with you.

That's not my interpretation. I see it the exact opposite, that Lexa did something suspicious and is trying to put a townie spin on it. Particularly the poorly reasoned hop to Alex felt like scum with bad intentions.

I’m actually surprised you feel that way. I’ve seen way more townies act like that instead of scum. Scum try to remain calm where as townies typically act based on emotions. That seemed like an emotional reaction to me.

I've seen it both ways, scum can get emotional too. What do you think about Lexa's vote on Alex at the end of that argument? I thought it looked like scum jumping off a conversation not going their way, wasn't too impressed with the apparent reasoning of trying to get Alex to post better.

But Mumbles was clearly the one who '

jumped off the the conversation

' before Lexa in 161?

What's everyone's thoughts on Luca Blight?

Apart from being a pretty good villain in Suikoden 2.

Kind of null to me. He's making some relevant observations, but that's pretty much all they are. I'm not seeing any real analysis from his posts. His read on rb in 178 is especially hilarious - he says rb's posting is very surface level, but I haven't seen any better from Luca himself in his 4 posts.

Hilarious you say? My word, you are easily entertained.

Perhaps someone who has posted regularly ought to have more depth to their posting than someone who had merely skimmed the thread up until that point?

NSG, your theory relies on Cedrick and Lexa being scum partners. Not only is it way too early to get worked up about potential scumteams, don't you think scum would be mindful of how they communicate with their partners early in the game? I can't imagine a situation where Cedrick and Lexa have a conversation in the scum pt about how they both play on a different site, and then Lexa goes straight in the thread and greets him as a '

fellow off-siter

'.

It was an interesting and worthwhile observation, but putting so much stock in it as you have done seems ridiculous to me.

As for Cedrick being too experienced to make the 'pre-game' comment - I agree with rb that, regardless of his experience, there is no way to know if he genuinely intended to deceive with this comment. I'm pretty sure I've had a scum game in the past where the game had started before I even had a chance to post in the pt.

Bold part is from me, what makes the observation worthwhile if it's not worth putting stock in? How much stock is the limit before it starts getting ridiculous?

It's worthwhile in the sense it creates an early discussion point and a potential, if unlikely, link between two players that can be referred back to later on. It starts getting ridiculous when you start to tunnel a player based on this on D1 when the theory is mainly conjecture.

Your line of questioning here is ridiculous, incidentally. Please tell me what you were trying to achieve with this.

[Papa Zito]

Hello reading up brb

[Awoo]

Yeah good question nsg I'll answer 288 later but my read on lexa right now is "Could go either way but I don't like the people voting him so I'm inclined towards town" so im avoiding voting him. Like I said in one post somewhere there are good reasons for it to go either way given the information. He's done moving so I should be getting that information soon. Good observation though

[Papa Zito]

There's no way all these newbies are newbies good lord who am I playing with.

VOTE: Cedric

[Cedrick]

What does newbies not being newbies have to do with anything? Why do you think I’m scum?

Can we get some analysis of the reading up you were supposedly doing?

[Papa Zito]

Oh hey Cedrick how's it going

[Cedrick]

can you answer my questions please?

[havingfitz]

Luca, Havo and Papa:

What are your reads on Lexa and Mumble?

[Papa Zito]

I like when you call me Papa.

For now I'm content to wait and see what Lexa does with the huge ass wagon on her (?).

Mumble is just a ball of snark and I don't really have a read on him one way or another.

[Beefster]

blah