Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Cedrick]

Wasn’t able to post for some reason but now I can. Having some extra time I did some research.

I'm down for the self-hammer

VOTE: Havo

Oh yeah, well I won’t self hammer.

You know, goes against my win condition and all.

Why are you against self hammering but ok with self voting?

[Cedrick]

When did he self vote?

In other games. I decided to search his posts on this site and found 2 games where he self voted.

I want to know why self voting isn’t considered playing against your win condition, only self hammering.

[Cedrick]

When did he self vote?

In other games. I decided to search his posts on this site and found 2 games where he self voted.

I want to know why self voting isn’t considered playing against your win condition, only self hammering.

Sorry, but you would have to point those out to me as I don’t remember.

I would guess they were out of frustration. Wait I do remember one and it was to resolve a 1v1 where I was
Being death tunneled by a hard head. It was to show I was willing to resolve that issue for the sake of town so town could move forward. I unvoted shortly after tho. The other I don’t recall.

viewtopic.php?p=9826310#p9826310

and

viewtopic.php?p=9394762#p9394762

I just find it is weird stance you are taking because some would say self voting is playing against your win condition. I don't know why self voting is fine but self hammering isn't

Cedrick, what are your thoughts on joining the Havo wagon? Let's get to L-1 on page 2, that'd be great.

I kind of want to hammer him, so if he gets to l-1 I will do that.

What resolution are you waiting for?

Either town realizes my Disclaimer isn’t A.I. and is okay with me staying in the game, thus removing their votes

Or I get lynched. In which case if I happen to be around during twilight I’ll give my thoughts. If not then .....

C’est la vie.

Makes sense I guess. I just think we've got a fair amount of talking points already. For example, fitz caught Lexa in a contradiction and Awoo clearly thinks my behavior is self evident enough to vote me without explanation.

Everyone who was or is on Havo's wagon: why were you or are you on Havo's wagon? None of those votes looked random, so why'd you do it? I'm on it because I wanted to form a wagon so I could ask questions like this.

idk if i'd say that was a contradiction by lexa and idk why you felt the need to point out somebody not giving a reason. If you want one ask for it.

Has anyone played with Cedrick before? His opener of digging into Havos game history is interesting and I'm curious if anyone has seen him put in that degree of effort in a scum game in the past.

Nobody has played with me before. I only dug through his meta because I wasn't able to post and I had time to kill while I was waiting for a resolution.

[Cedrick]

Intent to hammer at L-3, beautiful. So you're convinced he's scum? Is that entirely because of the self-vote/self-hammer thing?

no I am not convinced he is scum


@havo - I guess we will just agree to disagree because self voting and self hammering are one in the same to me and both are playing against your win condition.

[Cedrick]

i'll quick hammer havo if he gets to l-1

[Cedrick]

I'm more interested in why Cedrick would hammer Havo but doesn't want to vote him.

if he is willing to hammer anyone who gets to l-1, he has to be willing to receive the same and so I will be happy to oblige. I am not going to vote him because I am not convinced he is scum yet.

[Cedrick]

Cedrick, why do you want to hammer havo? You know this implies the final vote of a lynch correct?

Yes I’m aware of what hammering means and I already explained my reasoning a couple of posts before this one.

Cedrick, why do you want to hammer havo? You know this implies the final vote of a lynch correct?

Yes I’m aware of what hammering means and I already explained my reasoning a couple of posts before this one.

I'm curious why you would be willing to proceed with a quickhammer, neglecting claims and such.

You can’t really trust anyone’s claims so that wouldn’t really factor in to my decision.

what makes you call him an off-siter and not an alt?

Why did you feel the need to ask him that? Does it matter if I’m an offsiter or an alt?

In fact I'm gonna vote Ced, pending his explanation for the hammer-but-no-vote comment.

Considering I already did before you made this post, your vote doesn’t make much sense. I suggest you read everything before casting votes.

Cedrick is a terrible vote and you know it.

+1

[Cedrick]

I really haven’t seen anyone do anything that makes me think they are scum yet.

[Cedrick]

Why did you feel the need to ask him that? Does it matter if I’m an offsiter or an alt?

him calling you an off-siter and not an alt implies information that the rest of us don't have – information that would likely only come from discussion in the scum private thread.

I don’t think it does. He could have just made an assumption based on my join date.

Have you considered using your vote to engage people, make reads and sort using reactions and interactions?

I will eventually.

[Cedrick]

ok why is the lexa wagon getting so much momentum but my Q vote & minicase went nowhere

did I hit scum or something?

I didn’t find your mini case that convincing.

ok why is the lexa wagon getting so much momentum but my Q vote & minicase went nowhere

did I hit scum or something?

It was a post that happened an hour or so ago, and pointed out that you naked voted me after I voted you, thus pointing out the OMGUS-factor.

But why do you keep saying omgus? You keep saying it like it means something. Omgus isn’t scummy nor does it only come from scum. I feel you are hiding behind a buzz word. I don’t find Lexa voting you strange. If anything I find your aggression fake and scummy.

Yes?

Lol no it isn’t. (This is about omgus being scummy)

VOTE: mumbles

mumbles push looks bad to me and omgus isn’t scummy. Mumbles did something mildly suspicious and got voted for it and it looks like he tried to put a townie spin on it. He should have known a reasonless vote hop on somebody was going to generate that kind of reaction. Lexa’s Reaction imo is normal

[Cedrick]

but I can't really understand that stance.

I’ve already explained my stance. What’s not to understand?

[Cedrick]

no one has played with me before" implies "not an alt"

Just want to clear up that I am actually an alt. Nobody has played with me on this account was what I meant.

[Cedrick]

Don't like his tone
- Asking a lot of unnecessary questions 34, seems like the only purpose of that is to """be town""" or show concern for the game
- 43 wtf
- What north said too
- Doesnt understand that im going to win the game 31
- 71 [talking about self voting] [Also, why are we arguing the merits of self-voting?] more useless posts why??
- 72 @Q ok what do you make of this? is it AI? because there are votes on lexa, so what do you think of that?
-74 - doing it again "look at me ive been asking those questions and analyzing" - you shouldnt have to bring this up. your ""townyness"" is being shoved in my face so much that I am forced to question your motivations!

Let’s tackle this shall we?

I personally don’t see 34 as unnecessary. He’s clarifying what I’ve just said. Sure he could be trying to appear townie but he could actually be town. How can you tell the difference?

I’ll agree 43 is kind of wtf. How he can be so sure this early is strange but people do weird things sometimes.

I don’t like 71 either. I also don’t agree with it. There is never a time where a townie should vote themselves.

72 isn’t anything

74 does seem a little lamist to me.

I can see why you are suspicious of him, but I honestly don’t see anything truly lynch worthy. Tbh I’d be more suspicious of north and maybe rb. I feel like he should have attempted to find out if I was an alt or off-siter first before throwing out the conspiracy theory. Rb seemingly agreeing with him is also suspicious. North hasn’t been on this site that long, rb has though. For us to be scum together we’d have to have had a conversation before the game started (which we don’t know is possible) and since I wasn’t allowed to post due to a site glitch, I clearly wouldn’t have been able to coordinate anything in that small window. Plus there is the small fact that I’m not scum but clearly nobody is going to take my word for it.

[Cedrick]

Why are you defending another slot Cedrick?

I wasn’t but even if I had why ask me about it?

I can see why you are suspicious of him, but I honestly don’t see anything truly lynch worthy. Tbh I’d be more suspicious of north and maybe rb. I feel like he should have attempted to find out if I was an alt or off-siter first before throwing out the conspiracy theory.

what difference would it make and how does that make me scummy?

Rb seemingly agreeing with him is also suspicious. North hasn’t been on this site that long, rb has though. For us to be scum together we’d have to have had a conversation before the game started (which we don’t know is possible) and since I wasn’t allowed to post due to a site glitch, I clearly wouldn’t have been able to coordinate anything in that small window. Plus there is the small fact that I’m not scum but clearly nobody is going to take my word for it.

how old is your main account? this is very important.

also, *her. "gal" is in my name!

The difference is I sort of think if you were town, you’d want to clarify first and by not clarifying you were attempting to just shade me.

Don’t worry about how old my main account is. It’s not your business nor is it actually important despite you thinking it is. My apologies for the gender. I’ll try and remember.

it answers a very pressing question

The age of my account doesn’t actually answer any pressing questions. It’s irrelevant to this game so we can move on from it.

I mean, you don't want to vote him as you don't scumread him, but you'd want to immediately hammer him given the chance to basically teach him a lesson, regardless of what his alignment might be?

Basically I’m willing to policy lynch him in the fashion that he likes to do aka hammering without asking for a claim. I think it would hopefully teach him a lesson and if not it would have been funny as hell. Its a moot point now as the rvs pressure on him is gone.

[Cedrick]

That's not my interpretation. I see it the exact opposite, that Lexa did something suspicious and is trying to put a townie spin on it. Particularly the poorly reasoned hop to Alex felt like scum with bad intentions.

I’m actually surprised you feel that way. I’ve seen way more townies act like that instead of scum. Scum try to remain calm where as townies typically act based on emotions. That seemed like an emotional reaction to me.

[Cedrick]

You quite clearly have enough experience to know that scum get pregame chat in every game, or at the very least all normal games. I don't buy this.

It’s up to the mod and I’ve played games where I didn’t have pregame chat. Nice try

[Cedrick]

not sure why people purport to know what is and isn't relevant when they don't even know what i'm talking about, but it gets me slightly, perhaps irrationally angry.

Well your whole point is irrelevant. I guess I’ll have to find games that don’t include my main where prechat wasn’t allowed.

[Cedrick]

nsg i have higher expectations of you

If she’s town I agree.

[Cedrick]

You’re scummy for trying to use non game related things like they are relevant.

[Cedrick]

VOTE: Mumble

So far, mumble, as well as a couple others, have been rubbing me the wrong way reading their posts. Not sure on a lot of things at the moment, but this seems like a better idea than havo at the moment

Care to expand on “a couple others”?

Kinda hard to expand on them when I don't know why.

I just have "this doesn't sit well with me" type reactions on Awoo, Cedric, luca, lexa, and north

Not sure why, but I do

So why not try to do something to sort them?

[Cedrick]

Awoo

Luca Blight
Cedrick

Lexa
Northsidegal

Mumbles

Leaning town on Cedrick at this point, I think Mumbles is scum and I think Lexa/North are likely but still thinking. If I had to lynch in succession I'd lynch Mumbles/Lexa/North

Explain your 180 on me.

[Cedrick]

What 180?

170 and 176
You clearly want me Lynched. Now I’m town

So explain the 180

[Cedrick]

Even 185 is a question that you’d ask somebody you are suspicious of

[Cedrick]

What does newbies not being newbies have to do with anything? Why do you think I’m scum?

Can we get some analysis of the reading up you were supposedly doing?

[Cedrick]

can you answer my questions please?

[Cedrick]

Trying to fix this so when I have time I can sit down and read it throughly. Hopefully didn’t miss any post numbers

Spoiler:

Yeah yeah wall posts scummy zzz whatever they work for me

(I will preface by saying that the wall contains my thought process as I go through the thread so it might be hard to follow or so I've had that complaint before anyway)

numberq's post 6 piggybacking off of fitz's rvs vote, suggests a preference for building wagons possibly to create content, watch future votes for wagon building vs wagon creating coherence

Havo's disclaimer in 7...hmm. By definition it can't be alignment indicative but could it imply something about his state of mind that he felt the need to post the disclaimer in the first place? Inherently it has to lean town because while both alignments want to notify the game of their intent here, scum can't be as willing to get policy lynched. If future posts hold coherent with a town mindset this slot probably sorts town. The more pressing inference is of his playstyle, the severe disagreement with D1 as a concept and the refusal to give reads suggests that Havo either is unconfident with or doesn't believe in independent behaviour as reliably indicating alignment and prefers either role results or flip associations to sort people. If Havo starts attempting to sort people based on behavioural reads that could be a scum indication.

Riggs at post 26 still feels weird. Yeah it's only page two but to this point the game is already out of RVS with a 3 vote wagon on Havo and two previous votes sitting on mumble, plus a lot of relevant posts related to Havo's principle. Entering by ignoring all of that is...weird...but I'm not certain if it's alignment indicative. Have to imagine it signifies either cautious mafia or busy/unaware town. Could be a relevant marker but it seems more likely that he would have read the 25 posts than not.

Huh then he follows up at 30 by voting Havo after prompting by zito. Seems to support both narratives, either not noticing the wagon or not wanting to join until prompted. Possibly self-conscious? Feeling awkward for not having joined or commented on the existing wagon?

q is feeling gross. His comment to cedrick in #40 feels tonally different from the rest of his posts so far and his assertion in #54 of fitz catching me in a contradiction is an extremely generous interpretation if he's town.

fitz 55[/post seems fine on the surface but that's kind of the problem I have with it, very surface level reasoning. Seems more interested in pointing out things to use as ammunition rather than thinking about why that thing exists. Note to check future posts for this degree of thinking.

Hm interesting. NSGs vote on me at [post]67 seemed fine at the time, if weird based on assuming a scum team with cedrick, but in retrospect looks rather manufactured. Seems to imply that a users join date is information that every user should always be aware of and that not factoring that into your posts can be a reason to be scum. Reasoning seems flaky to me at best unless someone is known to specifically consider that information. FoS here.

The piggyback by q at 72 is equally bad, especially given his previous stretch of a situation. Scum lean.

At 76 cedrick hasn't really provided any content thats alignment indicative but I like he way his tone comes off. Every post I've seen him make is clear and direct in its meaning and implication, might be biased because that makes it easy to see where his thought process is at on a specific topic, but it feels very townie.

Ah a case at 79! I liked this by Awoo on numberq the first time let's see if it holds up. 1: tonal reads are pretty subjective so sure, reasonable. 2: can't say I agree with his citation for asking unnecessary questions to look town, requests for info are NAI to me and there's other kinds of questions, like asking someone to clarify an apparent position or easy 1v1 questions that imply "trying to look town" more reliably. 3: for example, calling out 31 for the easy "you said what?" post on an obvious meme is a much better indicator. 4: agree on the volume of useless posts, don't agree it's AI particularly given the volume of discussion Havo's principle caused. 5: hard agree that 74 is the LAMIST post to ever LAM. Overall: very valid reasoning and a strong case to make for page four. That being said, similar to fitz a lot of this is fairly surface level and could be manipulation of qs positions, though I read him fairly similarly so I'm inclined to put this as a town lean.

q's 86 pedit is still hilariously awful

NSG's 110 is something of a follow up to 67 and curiously enough actually makes me think she's town. The assumption that I would have had access to information from a pre-game discussion thread is a pretty large leap of logic to make and one that I would expect her to know wouldn't hold up if she were in fact scum but doubling down on this tack here somewhat suggests that she thinks she's figured out a tell and isn't going to drop it, it's somewhat tunnel vision-y in combo with 67 and suggests a coherent mindset in scumhunting. Solid town lean after this.

Ah. It's mumble. Note to self: probably scum but be careful of bias

But seriously what the fuck is this opening. 119: "Hi I don't feel like reading tell me who to vote". 120: "k I read here's a vote on a main wagon". 122: "Whoa fuck you hahaa I got you you OMGUSer ggggg!!!" Really, really, just want to call this aggro scum and call it a day but I can't discount acerbic town, they get me every friggin time.

Mumble's 125 is kinda confusing though, on the one hand you have massive assumptions creating a justification for voting me, but on the other hand this argument is also extremely self-centered which is typically more town indicative. "You don't care about these people but you care about ME" kinda suggests the same thing as NSG, that they think they might have got someone and they're going to tunnel in on it no matter what.

alex and rb entered in the past 25 posts too with fairly NAI posts but with alex needing follow up for the complete lack of content

Reading Mumble's posts over is pissing me off again :/

Right so Mumble is being a dick while pushing me in 132/135/137, sure fine, whatever. It's posts like 140 that really support the aggro scum theory: it's Mumble who comes up with the idea that I'm voting him (and not alex) for thinking that they're scum. Except that at no point did I suggest he was scummy, my vote and follow up was entirely about getting him to post content. It's Mumble who creates my supposed mindset and it's Mumble who uses that creation as a means to attack me for voting him (and not alex). He's manipulated the situation and filled in gaps with his own ideas in order to put me on the defensive and discredit my vote on him. Like there's some behavioural considerations that he might be town but fuck that, this is scum. Looks a lot less obtuse and a lot more manipulative with a clear head looking at it.
VOTE: Mumble

Note to self, 1v1 Luca. 178 suggests that he's having thoughts and engaging in some way but it's all surface level, need to see the thought process.

Note to self, keep an eye on potential buddying from Cedrick (i.e. 179)

Bunch of rb posts through 180s-190s, interesting content but hard to sort, very sparse. The reasonings against me/mumbles seem based in logic if nothing else.

Awoo has a bunch of posts up to and including 201 that are notable but don't engender much in the way of commentary. Nothing specifically alignment indicative but all very positive in terms of tone.

rb's 206 is the first post of his that's specifically notable with his commentary of false positives and that I really like because it suggests he's thinking about alignments at a higher level more likely to be town.

(kinda burnt out and took a break here)

Riggs is back at 227 with a curious vote on mumble, it's now the second time he shows up and makes a relatively empty post onto one of the main wagons. It does seem to provide some light support for the cautious mafia theory since it's impossible to argue he's unaware here. It's also curious to me because it seems like an awkward way to enter into a wagon on your scumbuddy, very low committal when your justification is "has been rubbing me the wrong way". Comfortable putting riggs in my scum pile but I'm also thinking that riggs isn't scum if mumble is and if mumble is town riggs is scum. Don't think town riggs impacts mumble's alignment yet.

Luca's 244 is a good look. Valid arguments and reasoning in response to NSG's case on Cedrick, but doesn't use it as a segue into a vote or case on NSG.

Alexcellent is lock town for me. 276 is a really strong thought process, a very natural read devlopment and a coherent mindset justifying their read on me. 278 is even better, a very high level reasoning trying to get at numberq's mindset when posting. Straightforward, rational, no exaggeration or misdirection, I would be shocked if this flipped scum.

Town

Alexcellent

Awoo

northsidegal

Cedrick

rb

Luca Blight

Havo

Papa Zito

havingfitz

Riggs

numberQ

Mumble

Scum

scum on my wagon are within mumble / q / fitz, alex vote is pure
mumble wagon looks good under the assumption that mumble/riggs aren't scum together, green flip mumble=scum riggs every time

need to see more from luca/havo in particular

[Cedrick]

The fact she was exerting some effort.

Unfortunately effort isn’t AI. Haven’t read it yet to fact check but regardless that post she made isn’t really AI either.

[Cedrick]

I’ll read Awoo’s post later also. Don’t really see much else going on. Hopefully I can read those posts at work.

[Cedrick]

Oh forgot about this page. I’ll read havo’s post later also though skimming I don’t really agree with his assessment of mumble and agree gnr has a shit iso though so does 3/4 other players.

[Cedrick]

Not sure you are in any position to criticize content since your iso is void of any at all. I’m busy, I’ve already provided content, and I’m preparing myself to catch-up when I’m not busy and on a computer. The only reason there were multiple posts instead of just one like I prefer to do is because I was on my phone.

If you are town, what’s your excuse?

[Cedrick]

I agree with you on mumbles and Eddie. I feel like Eddie is trying the spam it up and be aggressive in order to look town and unfortunately he doesn’t look town and his reads are terrible. He’s annoying and I’m already busy enough his spam posting is going to make it harder to do that.

Mumbles/Eddie - prob scum

Zito/havo/gnr - useless POSs who aren’t providing anything of value to the game.

I’d lynch any one of these people.

[Cedrick]

I’m voting mumbles. No point in letting his wagon die. Vote mumbles

[Cedrick]

why is mumble scum

It’s in my iso. As the replacement I suggest you read the game.

[Cedrick]

Good thing I’m not trying to lynch bad town. I’m trying to lynch scum.

[Cedrick]

Mumble info for those who don't know him

I've played with Mumble twice. Once me S v him T; I, to quote Transcend, dominated him. Second, I subbed due to other reasons (lol hi Havo you were one of the other reasons xd), he S v me T. I don't know if this is a rule for his meta, but I do know he lurked the FUCK out of that scum game and not as much as the town game. He wasn't a beacon of activity, but he posted what I'd call "sparsely" as town and essentially prodged as scum. And, as town, I remember fighitng him as scum was the most annoying shit ever because kinda like Fitz he kept throwing completely garbage arguments and acting like he'd made some god catch off a false positive. The thing is, he got EXTREMELY emotional and angry, and it was believable. I firmly believe off of a p e r s o n a l i t y a n a l y s i s that activity and emotion will sort Mumble accurately later on, so he's off the table for now for me. This is also because I townread him so far; the comments about him I've seen ITG are best demonstrated by Zito's "a bunch of snark". IIRC, and havo or mumble (lol) can correct me if I'm remembering wrong, he did not have that same type of snark as scum at /all/. I think his dickishness and Lexa interactions are pretty likely town. At the very least, everyone voting him can fuck right off for now unless you explain why he's scum and not bad.

so ? ^

so what? your post means nothing to me. I am not really a fan of meta personally and I certainly can't trust meta reads of people who I think could be scum

[Cedrick]

i disagree it's a dumb push and clearly others agree he is probably scum since 4 people are voting him. For me to use meta properly, i'd need multiple scum games. I'd also need to read his town games. it's day one, it isn't that pressing. If I'm wrong i'll deal with that but I see no reason to move off a viable wagon especially when the only competing wagon is somebody I town read.

[Cedrick]

I think she’s coming across as overly defensive and unnecessarily emotional

neither of these are alignment indicative though. In fact those are more often town traits not scum traits. If she flips town, you move into the scum pool. Your progression doesn't seem genuine to me.

[Cedrick]

man papa, i really hope you are scum.

[Cedrick]

I mean I guess they can be scum together, but I still town read lex and fitz's actions look more like scum trying to push a mislynch instead of trying to distance/bus

[Cedrick]

lexa is an awesome wagon

disagree

[Cedrick]

lexa is an awesome wagon

disagree

but what makes none of the other 10 people viable wagons? it's day 1, the point is to fling shit around until you get stuff you're confident in. If you are confident in mumble (I'm not confident enough in town him to flat out shut that down), fine, if he reveals as ic who's scum?

yes that is certainly one way to play, I have kind of been waiting to see what mumbles was going to do. Mumbles kind of got aggressive when lexa voted him calling it omgus and such, but now when mumbles has multiple votes on him i don't see the same level of aggression. At least if he would have come back and replicated that, I could buy that maybe it is his playstyle. I also feel we are far enough in the day that I have developed some decent reads that don't really require me to vote them.

i like the fact that we have 2 competing wagons also so no matter who gets lynched, I think we gain some good info.

[Cedrick]

I didn't think you had a good reason to even scum read her
your "pause" looked fake to me, like you wanted to appear town trying to reconsider. It looked fake cause your reason for it wasn't very good
Your hop back on looks opportunistic because how we have somebody pushing harder for her lynch, and since your reasons for scum reading her and for giving her "pause" cancel each other out, you are basically back on it for things that I personally have seen town do more often then scum.

I am also not really a fan of that whole iso thing you did because I don't really feel that is an effective way of scum hunting because they just show you not liking posts, they don't really include good analysis as to why those posts make them scum, doesn't show where the scum intent is.

[Cedrick]

Let's get something straight. Just because you voted her first, doesn't mean you started the wagon.

Post 62 I tell somebody else that the contradiction you supposedly found wasn't really a contradiction. I didn't dwell on it though cause that definitely isn't lynch worthy and I never would dream somebody would actually use that as a reason to scum read somebody.

I can't believe you actually asked me how somebody can fake a pause. That is super easy. Unvote for some lame reason making it look like you are actually reconsidering, re-vote later for the same or more poor reasons, especially if the wagon seems to be growing or increasing in popularity.

TADA. you have just faked a pause.

I mean your pause could have been legit, but I don't really feel it was but I concede I could be wrong. only time will tell.

I used the term hop in 179 and 471. For me, To hop means to jump. in terms of mafia, It's voting somebody, especially somebody who already has votes for poor or lack of reasons. Opportunistic votes are votes I would classify as a hop. I feel like both of my usese are spot on.

I have seen scum do things lexa has done, but I have seen town do it way more. This makes it null because there is no real scum intent behind it. Being defensive and emotional is more of a personal playstyle. there are players on site who are very emotional and defensive when under pressure, they do it as both town and scum. If you want to make a case that lex is only emotional and defensive as scum I will gladly listen to that. Go find me examples and I will reconsider my stance on that issue but until you do that, it remains null.

"so you are telling me there is a chance" is weak. if you are town I definitely expect more/better from you, That is basically are saying you are flipping a coin on her alignment.

I do not really like your response/defense of your actions so I stand by my opinion that if lex flips town, you look like a good candidate for scum on the wagon.

[Cedrick]

Ok so we agree to disagree.

[Cedrick]

VOTE: fitz
We can let the night time figure out who’s lying.

[Cedrick]

thats all you have to say to fitz's stuff?

Yes because I have no interest in going back and forth with a scum read. He’s going to try and spin his actions to look townie and I’m not going to believe him.

And yes I feel once we determine who of these 2 is town, it makes it clear who is scum and helps narrow down the people on the wagon. Unfortunately we don’t know. It’s possible both are town or as somebody said both are scum

[Cedrick]

That’s a stupid post and imo proves you are just conf.biased or scum.

The right play is to not lynch either and let night actions resolve.

It’s completely possible for Lexa to be town and think mumbles is lying. I have played games where somebody claimed a role that I felt didn’t belong with my role.

If anything doctor is the smarter fake claim. Nobody wants to lynch the doctor day 1. Watcher is a useless role most of the time.

Neither played how I’d expect a PR to play and both claims were done in a terrible manner. You can’t say with certainty that one is legit over the other without bias of your exsisting reads.

You believe mumbles but thought he was town
I believe Lexa but thought he was town.

Leave them both alone and let scum kill whoever is real and then we discuss after that. It’s possible both are town. I can’t remember is there a way to check completed games easily?

[Cedrick]

My issue with both claims is they were done at L-2 with no players expressing intent to move to either wagon, forget about hammering, so the timing for both just makes no sense. It makes it hard for me to read either claim as "genuine" when they were completely unnecessary you know?

Finally you say something I agree with

[Cedrick]

I missed that I suppose. Even so without the vote cast and without someone declaring intent it's premature.

Has more reason to be made than the LoLexa claim.

Really? You don’t think it’s possible at all for Lexa to be town and think that both can’t exsist as town?

[Cedrick]

Forgot this is a no cop game. Watcher makes more sense now.

[Cedrick]

Lol...Lexa votes please.

We aren’t lynching pr claims today.

[Cedrick]

advocating a Pr lynch is scum claiming

Fitz hasn’t played with a town mindset all game either.

[Cedrick]

Fine vote me but we aren’t lynching either claim.

[Cedrick]

See fitz wants to get a Pr Lynched first. If he’s town he knows smart play is let mafia kill a Pr. He’s almost definitely scum at this point.

[Cedrick]

I think Cedrick is p scummy independent of anyone else.

You keep saying or implying it but I haven’t done anything scummy. If anything you are the one who’s been scummy.

What is wrong with people? Is everyone seriously considering lynching a Pr claim day 1?

That’s insane. Why are we making mafia’s job easier?

It’s possible both claims are legit
It’s possible no claims are legit
It’s possible one claim is legit.

Based on what’s available to us, nobody can say with certainty who is legit or not.

I’d rather sacrifice myself to prevent stupidity happening

[Cedrick]

What is stupid about my post? Because I point out there is no way Lexa can KNOW Mumble is lying...that's stupid?

Yes it’s stupid. You are getting hung up on semantics. It’s completely reasonable for Lexa to think mumbles claim is fake. It’s completely reasonable to think that a doctor and watcher can’t be in the game together. You hanging your hat on semantics makes it a stupid post.

I’m not going to argue with you on the rest of your points. From my POV you are scum or are a detriment to town by pushing a pr lynch day 1.

The right play most if not all of the time is to leave Pr claims alive day 1 and let mafia resolve them for us. Not to do their job for them.

[Cedrick]

Fitz says he supports my lynch but only after we lynch a Pr claim. Sorry that is never a town mindset especially day 1

[Cedrick]

It’s completely reasonable to think that a doctor and watcher can’t be in the game together.

It is? Help me out here. Use small words, I'm an idiot.

Yes it is.

it is completely reasonable to think that a doctor and watcher can’t be in the game together.

Is that small enough?

[Cedrick]

Cedrick...just ignore the points you can't tapdance out of and give shit logic in the answers you do deem reply worthy.

Mmmkay?

Any argument that supports lynching a Pr claim day 1 is shit logic.

Sorry you are scum. I don’t even think you are bad town anymore.

[Cedrick]

I’m down for lynching fitz. He has to be scum but I don’t blame y’all for pressuring gnr

[Cedrick]

It doesn’t matter if I trust or don’t trust a claim.

YOU SHOULD NEVER LYNCH A PR CLAIM DAY 1 AND ANYONE PUSHING THAT AGENDA IS SCUM OR A DETRIMENT TO THE GAME.

[Cedrick]

I’m not arguing with you anymore. I town read Lexa so I trust her over mumbles but that doesn’t mean mumbles isn’t telling the truth and I’m wrong on Lexa. I can’t make an unbiased decision and neither can you (if you are town)

Smart play is let mafia decide what to do. If both are alive tomorrow we will deal with that also.

Nobody especially you is going to convince me it’s a good idea to lynch a Pr claim. I think mumbles is probably lying and I won’t even agree to that lynch.

So you go do you. I’ll do me and we’ll see what is what day 2 and beyond.

[Cedrick]

Literally nothing fitz can say is going to change my mind. He can try and shade me all he wants. I’m not going to be bullied into voting in a manner that is detrimental to town winning.

He is better off trying to convince people to lynch me cause I’ll fight a Lexa or a mulch lynch regardless if I believe either of them.

[Cedrick]

Why did you unvote Mimble?
Why am I scum for using the same logic you espouse?

Cause I’m not voting a claimed PR day 1 even if I don’t believe him.
Cause you are advocating lynching a claimed or day 1. (Other reasons previously mentioned also but that’s the thing that confirmed it for me.)

[Cedrick]

fitz you're spending a lot of energy on a slot that you've called scum a couple times now but your vote hasn't moved and that gives me what the experts call "the heebie jeebies"

I already called it. He even said it himself. He rather lynch a Pr claim over me.

[Cedrick]

Well honestly Cedrick I'm not nearly as religious about this idea of not lynching claimed PRs day 1 as you are. MS is littered with examples of games where scum claimed a PR day 1 and got lynched anyway. I don't find that particular argument compelling at all.

Yes I have seen games like that myself. I’d still rather err on the side of caution since we have that luxury and because it’s the smart play.

I’m not a big risk taker and since we don’t know the setup we don’t know if it’s a true 1v1 scenario or not.

It’s possible one is scum. It’s possible both are town. Hell its even possible both are scum. I remember somebody talking about a game where scum cc’d his partner before.

Why take a risk day 1? Let’s lay up and go for par on this hole. Go for the birdie or eagle on the next hole. (Sorry just watched tincup)

[Cedrick]

Move along little boy. I’m not arguing or talking with you anymore. If you are town you are not playing objectively, intelligently, and are looking for loop holes and technicalities. Plus your actions of wanting to lynch a Pr claim over me when it’s obvious you scum read me also makes me pretty confident you are scum.

Continuing the argument with you is counterproductive as I’m not changing my view and I seriously doubt you’ll change yours.

I have to have to ignore a player in the game but if it comes to that I will. Let’s just agree to disagree and move on.

I suggest others vote you also because it’s clear to me you are not playing with a townie mindset given you admitted you’d rather lynch a Pr claim over me.

[Cedrick]

But seriously, ??? What is "completely reasonable"

Because I found myself questioning both are town. If I have that thought then it’s reasonable others would also. Every possible outcome is completely reasonable. Even thinking they are scum together is a reasonable option. We simply don’t have enough to know for sure

[Cedrick]

I'm repeating myself because I want you to explain your wrong thought process.

Just cause you don’t agree with me doesn’t make my thought process wrong.

If I had to choose to lynch one I’d trust my own reads and lynch mumbles but I realize I’m not going to be right all the time. I could be wrong here. Do I want to risk losing a doctor? No

I could also be wrong in Lexa. Same thing though. Do I want to risk losing a watcher? No

Why take unnecessary risks if we don’t have to?

Nobody has a rock solid case for why Lexa or mumbles is scum. Anyone super confident they are right is bullshit.

I’m not Lynching either today. I strongly advise others follow suit. Anyone pushing to lynch either claim, is going to be scum read by me.

[Cedrick]

Well I’m not scum so prepare for a long game.

[Cedrick]

No town hard defends a player as much as Cedrick does virtually from his 3rd post of the game until now.

So you are losing the argument so you decide to resort to lying?

1. I wouldn’t say I have hard defensed anyone. I have come to defense of Lexa a couple of times when people, (you mostly) make accusations that are just pure crap. That has nothing to do with Lexa and everything to do with pushing things that aren’t scummy. If somebody uses omgus as a scummy or a scumtell, I’m calling that shit out because it isn’t and everyone should know this unless they are brand new. When somebody says defensive and emotional responses are scummy, I’m calling that out for the same as above. You have been here since 2009 and I’ve seen you play and I believe I’ve played with you before so you as town should know that isn’t scummy nor is it a scumtell.

2. I never hard defended anyone in my 3rd post or my 4th, 5th, even 6-10. I could go on forever. I’m not even hard defending Lexa now. I’m hard defending town from doing something stupid. Lynching a claimed Pr. If people were pushing mumble I’d be trying to prevent that also and I scum read mumble.

[Cedrick]

is scum!Derrick reliant on scum!lexa? or is it an independent scumread

Cedrick not Derrick. It’s not that hard.

[Cedrick]

is scum!Derrick reliant on scum!lexa? or is it an independent scumread

Cedrick could be scum regardless of Lexa flip.

So why aren’t you voting me?

If I forgot. You said you’d rather lynch a claimed Pr over me.

Carry on

[Cedrick]

*oh

[Cedrick]

Fitz has been on this site long enough to know what an actual hard defense is. Almost all of those he points out are bullshit

Like me disagreeing with him isn’t a defense of somebody else.
Me being suspicious of him wanting to lynch a Pr scum read over a non Pr scum read isn’t a defense of anyone.

Me calling out somebody for using non AI things and saying they are AI isn’t defending anyone.

It’s scum hunting and playing the game.

P.edit please don’t call me dumb. I’m definitely not and there isn’t anything in my iso that would suggest I’m dumb or stupid. If anything I’m playing the most intelligent out of everyone.

[Cedrick]

Nsg isn’t obv town

[Cedrick]

You laugh but people are actually contemplating lynching a claimed power role and that shows a lack of intelligence imo. People still voting either person and has posted in the game after the claim goes in my book as either scum or not playing intelligently

[Cedrick]

Lynching a Pr day 1 isn’t a good/bad thing. It’s straight up smart/stupid. Mafia is going to resolve this dilemma eventually.

Everyone has a 2nd scum read so we lynch somebody else.

[Cedrick]

Ok. Tell me what’s wrong with waiting a day and seeing what scum does?

There are at least 1-2 other scum to find.

Nobody can say with any certainty who is lying between the 2 claims. It’s possible neither are or both are.

If I have to vote a claim it’s going to be mumble. That’s more commonly fake claimed role and watcher fits more with no cop. Plus he’s been playing better than mumble. Not to mention most of the Lexa wagon have people I’m not sort of scum reading.

But we don’t have to vote either so I won’t.

[Cedrick]

We have another week. We have leads on some other scum. Even though I’d prefer fitz I’d even compromise on gnr since he isn’t playing.

Fitz basically pushing he knows Lexa is scum is weird since he was questioning how Lexa knew mumble was lying.

Truth is fitz’s reasons for scum reading are hella weak. Some weren’t even AI. He CCs and now he’s basically confirmed scum? Sorry that is suspicious.

[Cedrick]

I do better with flips. Day 1 is so hard. Town mislynches way more than they do lynch Scum. So right now I’m waiting for others to not enter that fitz really doesn’t look to be playing with towns best interests in mind. His push was bad, him advocating lynching a Pr over me who has essentially claimed not a Pr is suspicious given how much he scum reads me. I’d actually say in his mind he probably has better reasons to think I’m scum then he does for lex yet his vote stays on lex.

What happens if we lynch lex and he flips town? He’s probably still going to come after me. Why not come after me now and resolve the PR stuff tomorrow? Why does Lexa have to go first?

It’s suspicious. It’s not a town mindset

[Cedrick]

Fitz actually said me scum reading him for pushing to lynch a Pr claim over a non Pr claim was me defending Lexa. How?

I’m against BOTH being lynched and I scum read mumble. That’s not defending anyone. It’s pointing out the bizarreness

[Cedrick]

Why isn’t fitz a good alternative?

[Cedrick]

If he were a newer player I’d probably agree.

[Cedrick]

once again, what are you waiting for? like what do you want to happen that will make you decide whether or not to lynch lexa or mumble tomorrow?

More information.

First - I disagree scum is going to leave both alive. It’s possible they do especially if one is actually scum but the entire point of fake claiming is self preservation and trying to get a cc.

Second - wagon analysis would give me more things to consider. Getting people to focus elsewhere and scum hunt some more will probably be more difficult for scum.

[Cedrick]

fun fact smartest player: town winrates go down in games where scum is lynched d1

1. Link?

2. Part of lynching scum day 1 is actually finding them. Half the people think mumble is scum. Half think Lexa. If we lynch wrong you’ve hurt town’s chances to win

I’m willing to bet a Vt mislynch day 1 probably doesn’t hurt towns chances to win and wagon analysis could actually help it plus it’s a low risk lynch.

This is a risk/reward situation and I don’t feel comfortable gambling on a Pr

[Cedrick]

you really do not see why i entered the way i did

Looks like you wanted to try and town up your slot. People think scum aren’t going to be aggressive which is laughable

[Cedrick]

do you actively intend on sorting the two of them tomorrow, or is it just a the future holds the answers type thing and you won't know until you know

Yes if both are alive I intent to sort them both

[Cedrick]

Who is Texas?

[Cedrick]

btw, texas has been online on discord a ton today and yesterday but no posts here. :shrug:

You realize that doesn’t mean anything right?

[Cedrick]

Nice MISREP on saying I am lying.

You did lie and I pointed the lies out. So no misrep

[Cedrick]

Now fitz is going to fake a v/la.

[Cedrick]

Nice MISREP on saying I am lying.

You did lie and I pointed the lies out. So no misrep

You're terrible. Saying you are hard defendind Lexa is not a lie. It's my opinion. If you deny you had defended her this entire game you are a delusional liar yourself. Take away the term hard defended if it knots your panties. Fact remains you've defended her the entire game.

You said I hard defended her since my 3rd post of the game. That’s 10000000000% a lie.

I don’t even think i hard defended her at all but I could see how somebody would think that after I called out mumble for his BS omgus accusation but even that wasn’t a defense of Lexa and that was way past my 3rd post

[Cedrick]

he seems utterly convicted about what he's saying even if the majority of it is batshit insane.

Literally nothing I’ve said is batshit insane.

I’m playing smart. Letting mafia resolve the PR claims is smart.

[Cedrick]

Today’s lynch should be fitz. If not him I’d go gnr or maybe Eddie.

If we lynch a Pr claim it should definitely be mumble.

Like the reason that gives Zito pause about me is exactly what mumble has done. At least Lexa under pressure attempted to do something but mumble hasn’t done anything useful all game and is now hoping the doc claim buys him extra time.

I still won’t vote mumble today unless I absolutely have to

[Cedrick]

Lol....did you defend Lexa in your 3rd post?

No I didnt

[Cedrick]

Have you defended her this entire game...since your 3rd post?

No I didn’t

[Cedrick]

I’d really appreciate it if people not refer to me as insane or crazy. Joking about mental health issues isn’t appreciated. Thank you

[Cedrick]

See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's like you're on this damn holy crusade and only you can see the light while the rest of us blunder around slamming our shins on coffee tables like idiots. Do scum play with/fake this level of conviction? I don't know it's really weird????

That’s what it feels like tbh. I was taught that you never lynch a claimed Pr day one. In my years on this site I’ve seen so many more PRs lynched day one then I have scum lynched day 1.

Do we really want to gamble on potentially losing a doctor or a watcher?

If we lynch based purely on play. Hands down mumble is scummier yet more people town read mumble. Why?

He’s not enguaged. He’s not scum hunting. He attacked somebody for omgus which isn’t even scummy. He got agressive for a few posts when he didn’t really need to so it looked fake, then he vanished and hasn’t done anything since he has been under pressure. He comes back and claims Pr but still has done nothing.

I don’t see how anyone can tr that

[Cedrick]

Yes you did.

Disagreeing with you isn’t defending Lexa

Yes you have.

I disagree and I explained why.

You and mumbles used bad reasoning. If you used it on somebody else I’d still call it out.

When a player uses non AI things and imply they are AI, I’m calling it out. Just because it happened to be on Lexa doesn’t really mean I’m defending her.

Idk why you even have an obsession with defending people to begin with. Other people are defending others yet you ignore that. You are basically defending mumble and I don’t even know why.

Defending somebody isn’t scummy. You are too experienced to say it is.

[Cedrick]

yet more people town read mumble. Why?

Cause he's town?

Scum slip?

[Cedrick]

You can’t know he’s town. His play doesn’t suggest he is town.

[Cedrick]

You are too experienced to say it is.

But not experienced enough to know scum when I see it? ok.

Clearly not cause if you are town you think I’m scum and I’m not.

But I don’t think you are and I’m wondering if you just slipped. There is no way you can go from I think mumble is town to I know he is and nothing mumble has done has looked town.

[Cedrick]

Ok I’m done with you. Can we please lynch fitz. I honestly can’t see how he’s town at this point.

[Cedrick]

Today’s lynch should be fitz. If not him I’d go gnr or maybe Eddie.

If we lynch a Pr claim it should definitely be mumble.

Like the reason that gives Zito pause about me is exactly what mumble has done. At least Lexa under pressure attempted to do something but mumble hasn’t done anything useful all game and is now hoping the doc claim buys him extra time.

I still won’t vote mumble today unless I absolutely have to

[Cedrick]

I also challenge the people who town read mumble to explain what he’s done that’s protown. Cause I don’t see anything in his iso.

[Cedrick]

Please stop talking to me. Go skiing or whatever

[Cedrick]

yet more people town read mumble. Why?

Cause he's town?

Fitz said he didn’t think he said mumbles is town. Here is the post where he says he knows mumble is town.

It may not be a true scum slip but given how fitz is acting like he didn’t just say it is suspicious. Like he’s backtracking

[Cedrick]

I guess I put less value into PRs than you do? Or more value in behavior? Or pixie dust?

Yes I do value PRs. If they aren’t useful what’s the point?

We can just play 10 VTs vs 3 goons.

Boring

[Cedrick]

We could really do with hearing less from Fitz and Cedrick and more from Lexa and Mumble themselves; both have been eerily quiet since revealing their supposed power roles.

And let's not forget Riggs - he needed more than 2 minutes for his reads list which I guess is fair enough, but 12+ hours is taking the piss.

We can lynch him? His iso is full of him trying to twist things. Like he’s really trying to imply I’ve somehow contradicted myself. He did the same with Lexa early on (inb4 I’m defending her again)

The biggest smoking gun is he’d rather lynch a Pr instead of a non Pr. He doesn’t even consider he could be wrong. I feel like town would do that.

[Cedrick]

To be fair Cedrick, you haven't exactly wavered on your read of Lexa.

fair point but I have seen 2 people I scum read use very bad reasons to push for her lynch, those bad reasons are reasons I really don't see coming from a town mindset.

I know nobody is listening to me but fitz backing off when lexa made her post and then re-voting her for more bad reasons was very suspicious. His 180 on mumbles is also suspicious and then outright believing him and now basically saying he is town and he believing mumbles when doctor is probably the most commonly used fake claim just screams he is scum. It's possible they are both scum, but i'm fairly certain fitz is scum. Let's also consider that he wants lexa lynched no matter what, he won't push for my lynch until others push it OR after lexa flips. There is no way he can be that certain mumbles is town or that certain lexa is scum.

Nobody can have that kind of certainty.

[Cedrick]

so you can't say that is hugely AI.

it is to me. I already said anyone pushing a pr lynch today is suspicious to me.

[Cedrick]

eff

VOTE: riggs

What would a lurker lynch do for us?

Also why didn’t you mention fitz in your write up? I’d love to hear detail thoughts on him. If you town read him I’d really love to hear how you spin his actions in a town light.

[Cedrick]

That really isn’t meta though.

[Cedrick]

I’d really love to hear how you spin his actions in a town light.

my ironymeter just exploded

[Cedrick]

okay i need to know your real account now because i must figure out if being this dumbtown is a possibility i believe in

Sorry. It’s secret.

[Cedrick]

It's sort of meta right. I mean you were investigating another player's games to check for consistency with this game yeah?

Checking if someone could be lying is not meta. It’s fact checking and scum hunting

[Cedrick]

That’s fine. If it’s me or a Pr I’ll take the hit

[Cedrick]

Please lynch fitz tomorrow

[Cedrick]

No I’m not derpy. I’m offended by the comparison

[Cedrick]

I'm not tunneling

[Cedrick]

You were agreeing with me earlier and now you think I’m somebody else you are fine lynching me? That makes no sense.

I don’t even understand why people think I’m scum.

[Cedrick]

this case against cedrick is ass

Tbh there is no case for me. I’m sure I’ve made people mad cause I question their intelligence and others think I’m somebody else and taking that out on me.

At least that’s how I see it.

I disagree that fitz and I are both town.

[Cedrick]

Still think mumble is scum but won’t lynch today unless he’s leading and deadline is near
If fitz isn’t off the table I’d lynch Eddie.

I’m also fine with gnr/Zito/havo since they are low content players and useless

[Cedrick]

That is basically the same list I gave pages ago before the claims.

[Cedrick]

VOTE: gnr

L-1

[Cedrick]

Cedrick stop flinging shit at fitz its bad for you

Did you really just tell me to stop providing reasons why one of my scum reads is scum?

[Cedrick]

Yea I reallllly don't love how Ced and Lexa joined it, and how quickly. I'm not moving my vote on principal though.

Red flags with this post.

[Cedrick]

I’m definitely annoying but I’m not scum. I say what’s on my mind with no filter and I guess y’all don’t like that.

[Cedrick]

Yea I reallllly don't love how Ced and Lexa joined it, and how quickly. I'm not moving my vote on principal though.

Red flags with this post.

VOTE: Cedrick

if you were suspicious of the Lexa vote and my vote, I don’t see why you would stay on it because of “principle “

[Cedrick]

Your response doesn’t really make sense in response to my post. If you were suspicious of our votes, that would make you think he’s probably town. Keeping your vote on somebody that you think is probably town is suspicious. Not to mention there is no day talk so he couldn’t discuss with his team. I’m not even going to believe you didn’t know that so no fake town slip from you.

You have reaffirmed my scum read of you. That’s probably why I’m getting pressure despite not doing a single scummy thing. I’m right on at least 2 scum.

[Cedrick]

Also, from your POV 2 of your scumreads (me + havo) were voting it, and iirc the other 2 expressed explicit interest (fitz + zito) (though I would need to fact check this). l-1ing that wagon heebyjeebifies me.

If this was true why didn’t you unvote?

Gnr is in my lynch pool and has been. I’ve said that at least twice.

My preferred lynches are NEVER going to happen because you guys are good at looking town and town is stupid so I’ll happily lynch somebody else in my lynch pool.

[Cedrick]

Not really impressive as far as gamesolving goes

If my reads end up being right I’ll be waiting for an apology.

Riddle me this though. Easier you were worried I was buddying you. I’ve been accused of hard defending you the entire game (per fitz) so why hasn’t your read on me weaken? Hard defending you should me you think I’m actually buddying you.

[Cedrick]

Easier

Earlier*

[Cedrick]

I honestly think you threw in the talk with partners for some attempt at town cred. You can’t say you don’t like me cause You don’t even know me as a person or a player.

If gnr flips town, you not unvoting makes you look worse than you do already.

[Cedrick]

the vast majority of the pressure is from Zito and Fitz?

Hmm. So is that the team? You/Zito/fitz?

Interesting. I’ll sleep on that one.

[Cedrick]

I typed in unvoting and deleted it. I considered it a lot.

For some reason I don’t believe you.

[Cedrick]

I don’t know what you would and wouldn’t do and you don’t really come off as trust worthy. I do think you are willing to act like you didn’t know.

Stop it with the rob shit. I’m not him and I don’t appreciate people comparing me to him.

[Cedrick]

Jesus Christ people I’m not robbnva.

[Cedrick]

this means you need to sort it on a case by case basis, like 95% of things in mafia

Interesting. Why aren’t you doing more if this?

[Cedrick]

whereas "tunnelling" someone aka voting them and pushing them while sorting other people isn't even a tunnel.

This is what I’m doing yet you accused me of tunneling.

You can’t even keep your story straight

[Cedrick]

I also want to know why you don’t have an issue with fitz’s tunneling.

He’s either scum or completely anti-town especially since he’s pushing to lynch a Pr yet I don’t see you sorting him.

[Cedrick]

More of what?

Sorting things.

[Cedrick]

I also want to know why you don’t have an issue with fitz’s tunneling.

He’s either scum or completely anti-town especially since he’s pushing to lynch a Pr yet I don’t see you sorting him.

I pushed the same pr? He's tunnelling two people I scumread? he's in the lowest tier of townreads for me; I do have an issue with him, kind of, but he's pushing the EXACT same people I am (throwback to the identical reads list) which is a townie trait.

Or it’s buddying. If you were trying to sort you’d consider that. And just cause you are playing bad and he’s copying you doesn’t make him town

[Cedrick]

I also want to know why you don’t have an issue with fitz’s tunneling.

He’s either scum or completely anti-town especially since he’s pushing to lynch a Pr yet I don’t see you sorting him.

I pushed the same pr? He's tunnelling two people I scumread? he's in the lowest tier of townreads for me; I do have an issue with him, kind of, but he's pushing the EXACT same people I am (throwback to the identical reads list) which is a townie trait.

Or it’s buddying. If you were trying to sort you’d consider that. And just cause you are playing bad and he’s copying you doesn’t make him town

once again, he's the lowest tier on my town reads for a reason. him buddying me potentially is why I kept bringing up the identical lists. I don't overly get a buddying vibe, and clearly you don't either because you're pushing a me / fitz team (I assume zito was a joke).

Once again though it still doesn’t look like you are sorting him. You basically said since he’s got the same reads he’s a soft town read. You are ignoring his actions and actual content. I’m not really worried about what makes sense as teams. I just scum read you and him independently of each others actions.

[Cedrick]

My 3 lowest reads are the 3 wagons, lol.

And those reads suck

Lexa has been more active and played better than somebody you TR. this is weird. Like she could be scum but when you compare her to mumble hands down mumble is scummier
Gnr is a lurker - it’s not AI and since he’s given us nothing he should be a no read what so ever
Me - active and scum hunting and making some damn good posts that make sense.

[Cedrick]

Havo and Zito aren’t scum hunting. I don’t even think Alex is really. Come to think of it Half the player list is underwhelming

[Cedrick]

There are scummy things about awoo. Disappearing is one of them

Reading this post again. What is your definition of disappearing? I don’t think he’s ever been prodded and looking at his iso i believe he’s posted everyday.

Also why is being away for a period of time scummy anyway? Town and scum both do this.

[Cedrick]

What am I ignoring?

I don’t remember you responding to the many scummy things I pointed out. You say anything about misrepping people in his iso dives. Tbh you haven’t really questioned any of his actions. You aren’t trying to sort him cause “he agrees with you.”

Quit with the scum hunting stuff please, Zito at least is blatantly town and Havo / Alex are preeeeetty townie too. I'll let you know where I stand on them when I re look over things, but I know I'll still have Zito as town.

No I won’t because it’s relevant. Zito is in no way blatantly town and havo and Alex aren’t pretty townie either.

Your reads don’t really make sense and your pushes are for superficial reasons when you give them and none of your scum reads cake from any scum hunting at all.

Gnr is a lurker policy lynch
You think I’m somebody else and clearly are biased against me because of it
Lexa is the only one that maybe makes sense but I see her playing better than most of your town reads which is why I’m townreading her.

[Cedrick]

you dropped it, no? Quote what you want me to address.

I dropped it because I’m not a fan of 1v1s when I know everything he says is either untrue, a misrep, or irrelevant. It would also end up being a constant back and forth which nobody really likes. You could have responded to whatever you wanted. It’s not up to me to tell you what to respond to. In my opinion it’s all relevant. You basically excuse his lying and misrepping because he shares your reads.

what reads don't make sense? what superficial reasons?

Most of them. I don’t remember your reasons off the top of my head but I definitely don’t remember you having any good ones.

your comments about the person you're voting

Why bring that up? You scum read him. I don’t. None of y scum reads will happen today so I have to adapt. A person who is lurking has a wagon so that’s better than somebody I’m town reading n
The rest is too much to read/respond while I’m in my car so I’ll see if anything is relevant and respond later.

[Cedrick]

Zito is not casing people, he's "scumhunting" in the sense he's gamesolving

I don’t see evidence of this at all. For all I know he’s using random.org to decide who he is calling scum

[Cedrick]

Tell me what's scummy about them?

They are just exsisting. They aren’t trying to find scum. They might as well lurk because they have been just as valuable to this game as gnr has been. The only difference imo is their post count

[Cedrick]

Stuff like this is what makes me consider a town!you. Like, there is no scum motivation for saying something this backwards,

It’s not backwards tho. Nobody has made a convincing argument for town mumbles. Again he’s been as useful as gnr except he tried to say omgus makes somebody scum. THAT’S backwards thinking. Omgus isn’t a scumtell

[Cedrick]

I always have an open mind, but you lying about your alt constantly rather than just ignoring it and doing the same unbearable playstyle Robb has is not endearing.

You are bordering on harassment at this point. I’m not robb and you and everyone else need fucking drop it now.

[Cedrick]

There are huge differences between rob and me. Are we playing similar? I don’t think so but rob wouldn’t have ever stopped pushing mumble regardless of his claim. We’d be arguing with him and people would probably replace out because how toxic he is.

Anyways this discussion ends now.

[Cedrick]

I just noticed havo went from voting me to quickly changing his read on me and voting mumbles right after a VC showed Lexa had a larger wagon.

If I’m wrong and Lexa flips scum that’s something to consider

[Cedrick]

I'll reply to the rest later driving rn at a red light
are u two face

No. I assumed rob was twoface also.

[Cedrick]

Nobody has good reads day 1

[Cedrick]

Riggs is my best best to flip scum

Based on what?

[Cedrick]

VOTE: Guy_Named_Riggs

He's done very little, to the point it feels like he's just trying to coast through the day unnoticed. I don't like the appeasement of 30, nor do I like the vagueness of his Mumble vote or his shading of certain players in 257. In 328 He says he's '

going through things now

', yet all he subsequently manages is a passive question at Zito as to why he suspects Cedrick over others. Cedrick was also one of the ones Riggs shaded earlier, so presumably he should have been able to relate somewhat to Zito's scumread on Cedrick.

This was the basis behind my initial scumread, but most damning has been his reaction to Awoo's questioning - not only failing to give any 'live' thoughts on anyone, but seemingly flaking from the game as a result.

I feel town in this situation would at least throw out some thoughts, no matter how basic they might be.

Ok I sort of understand why you are scum reading him but I’ve seen townies lurk. I’m fine lynching him though since everyone seems to disagree with my reads

[Cedrick]

ced?

Hi

[Cedrick]

I still think you are scum. So no

[Cedrick]

If I’m wrong about you, you are making this game difficult also

[Cedrick]

Eddie - You are town reading people I feel are likely scum. You are also town reading useless players. You aren’t really sorting people.

[Cedrick]

Eddie - You are town reading people I feel are likely scum. You are also town reading useless players. You aren’t really sorting people.

If you're town, I'm not townreading Fitz. Who else?

What useless players am I townreading, Zito and Havo?

I adamantly disagree I'm not sorting people, but let's start with this because my confidence in scum you dropped off.

You haven’t really tried to sort fitz. We covered this you aren’t really sorting Zito or havo either. Zito made 1 post which could have easily been made by scum. Zito is a smart and very experienced player and I think he is capable of way more than he has given us.

Nsg/Alex/Awoo are all higher on your reads list than they should be and mumble being number uno town read is just bat shit crazy.

Idk why you keep mentioning your scum read on me is going away. If you were town you wouldn’t have scum read me to begin with.

Only way I can work with you is if somebody gets an inno on you which isn’t likely since there is no cop.

As for fitz scum. I honestly can’t remember if I’ve played with him as scum.

[Cedrick]

Is mulch normally this trash at mafia?

just ignore mulch, he's a hyperactive trolling piece of shit who ruins games with his presence

[Cedrick]

I’m not trying to fight with you but I want to have an honest discussion with you right now.

Why does mulch spam posting make you town read them when they do it as both alignments?

Do you understand why I’m suspicious of you yet? I really don’t believe you as town would town read somebody or scum read somebody for doing things that are done by both alignments.

Eddie made a comment about sorting people. Like players have to sort them to determine their actual alignment. You doing a 180 on a slot without any sorting at all is suspicious to me. To me it looks like he shares your read on Lexa so you are going to call him town.

So please explain exactly what mulch has done that makes him town over scum because I’m not seeing it personally

[Cedrick]

I’m suspicious of you because your reads/actions/pushes don’t really make much sense. You scum read people for things that aren’t scummy which is what scum typically do.

Let’s assume gnr is scum lurking. Any replacement for him is going to most likely do the exact opposite since that’s why the slot is getting pressure. It’s easy to come in and hypo post as scum. I don’t feel like you have actually read his posts, I don’t think you’ve read any of the posts that have been made while you were “v/la”.

Mulch hasn’t really taken hard stances. He’s calling Lexa scum and now voting her when a majority of the players have been doing that. That could very easily be scum mirroring others.

What other hard stances has he made? He criticizes people for pressurng a lurker and says there are so many other scummy people yet he townreads most of the really scummy people.

You aren’t even trying to enguage with him to get him to explain his reads.

[Cedrick]

Mumble isn't doing anything in this game at all

Hello captain obvious.

[Cedrick]

I've played with you before.

You don’t know if we’ve played together or not. Don’t make the same mistake others are making

[Cedrick]

That’s not what I’ve heard. Could you link one game where you actually helped town win?

[Cedrick]

Pretty sure I can’t do that. Plus most people seem to dislike you. You even admit you are unliked

[Cedrick]

Did you win or lose that game? Was he Lynched?

[Cedrick]

What am I talking about. Mulch always loses

[Cedrick]

Man I thought for sure she was town. Mumble was playing so bad.

Since I have to re-evaluate my reads I’m kind of leaning rb/havo/nsg but still dislike fitz and Zito.

VOTE: havo
This vote pinged me the most. Rb also pinged me.

[Cedrick]

I know I look bad for hard defending Lexa but I genuinely believed she was town. It’s wifom obviously but I’d never hard defend my partner like that.

Havo and rb were trying to avoid voting Lexa imo

I thought I mentioned this yesterday but havo votes me. And does a 180 a couple posts later right after the VC shows Lexa was at l-2

449

Start reading from there. Does his switch to mumble and backing off me look genuine? To me it doesn’t. I believe I pointed this out yesterday also when I was considering I could be wrong on Lexa.

[Cedrick]

I think my vote is the one that got the momentum back going and actually caused the lynch.

Oh ffs. First Luca...now you.

Anyone else want credit for lynching the person I fcuking cased then tunneled all day long after rvs? Lol....

You didn’t case shit and Your reasons were shit.

You don’t get to take credit for Luca either.

[Cedrick]

Man I was hoping I'd be dead.

[Cedrick]

Post is useless since you didn’t use post tags.

[Cedrick]

How do you defend your quick vote on me then hop to mumble after the VC showed lexa was leading? That’s pretty bad. Your hop off me was weird anyway

[Cedrick]

I think you can use post tags but you’d have to do it on each one.

[Cedrick]

Yeah but you as scum could easily explain your actions clearly. That’s not a good defense

[Cedrick]

That’s the old way. Yeah f that.

[Cedrick]

Yeah but you as scum could easily explain your actions clearly. That’s not a good defense

And I would think if you always read him as scummy you’d be more aware of that and not vote him day 1.

[Cedrick]

Yeah but you as scum could easily explain your actions clearly. That’s not a good defense

And I would think if you always read him as scummy you’d be more aware of that and not vote him day 1.

U think maybe that’s why I talked myself out of voting him?

It seems Eddie talked you out of it. The point though is you did it specifically right after a VC showed lexa was the largest wagon.

When you unvoted you spoke out against a lexa wagon

Your actions seem like you didn’t really want it to happen and when you finally do you don’t have your own reasons for it. You basically sheep your way on.

That all looks more scummynthan towny to me.

[Cedrick]

Oh wait. That’s the issue with ISO’s. You actually unvoted after the claims. Your post before though you were sort of being pursaded by Eddie.

[Cedrick]

what ddi eddie do?

You were trying to talk him out of his scum read of mumble unless I misunderstood the post

[Cedrick]

469

[Cedrick]

It’s possible mulch bussed hard. Unlikely but possible given site meta

[Cedrick]

Why tho?

[Cedrick]

@nsg that’s a dumb question. Every other cop is possible just not an inno/guilty cop

Who first brought up traitors?

[Cedrick]

there are no regular cops with modifiers of any kind or roles with regular cop abilities.

Flavor or role cops aren’t regular cops

[Cedrick]

Actually Eddie first mentions it right before he hammered lexa. Eddie could be traitor

[Cedrick]

Why wouldn’t I say that? That’s what I think

[Cedrick]

that's a weird thing to think about, I'm always excited af for a flip like I sit there reloading waiting for it

This. Even when I’m against it.

[Cedrick]

I think lynching havo or rb is a better play personally

[Cedrick]

I don’t oppose an Alex lynch either.

[Cedrick]

VOTE: alex

[Cedrick]

That reaction was weird.

[Cedrick]

Mine or Fitz's?

Fitz’s