Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

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Hi, I will not be reading anything that happens when I’m asleep

Also welcome to all etc etc

VOTE: Klick hey!

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VOTE: Menalque

totally frozen right now

Although now I see this it would be rude not to return the favour

VOTE: catboi under 10 pages catboi lim? I believe, make my dreams reality for when I awaken on the morrow

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Awww shit and FL is here too? So many tasty options

Nice to see you around again Klick! How’s everything? (I will except my “no reading things that happen while I’m asleep” rule to check the answer, promise )

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No, seriously; no joke; this is a realclaim

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hmm

VOTE: CSF

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am I talking to Dunn or Luke?

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hydras that won't sign

~joy~

is there a reason why you won't sign/be clear about who's posting?

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thanks!

I voted CSF for 3 reasons:

(1) I think malc's "oh god 11 pages already" thing is very slightly +scum, but CSF's "he seems like he wouldn't mind the legwork of reading 10 pages" reads as overjustification to me

(2) she didn't say hello to me

(3) *reserved for now*

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My impression of Malcolm is that he doesn't mind doing legwork like reading 10 pages

it is from specifically this line

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in the words of the philosopher of our time, Rivers Cuomo, say it ain't so

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We suspect that you are one of the 9 anti-town players in this game.

What makes you say there's 9 anti-town?

Titus

this would be lowkey the funniest slip I've ever seen lmao

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In order to increase the value of day play in multiball, this game has more scum but fewer nightkills than the first game. The faction sizes are 14:4:4:1, but each scumteam is only allowed to kill 2 nights out of each 3. If a team submits kills nights 1 and 2, they may not kill night 3, and so on.

@Titus

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@Melanque-Say what ain't so?

you ninja'd me, it was in response to Dunn's Very Serious Post on me above

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@Melanque-Say what ain't so?

you ninja'd me, it was in response to Dunn's Very Serious Post on me above

Is your intention to demean Dunn and by extension their scumread on you with this post?

it was not my intention to demean Dunn, I simply desired directly to defuse the dour doomy description of my displayed deliberations

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dunn, you continue to astonish me with the amount of effort you put in, time and time again, to not understanding my play

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menalque how serious is your CSF vote

(not very)

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Is mastina the type of player to go for an attention-drawing gambit like claiming beloved princess as scum?

oh wow, you really are new here huh

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let's see if I can find a thing

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don't worry about it, and I can't find any really egregious examples that quickly but yes, mastina is (in)famous for making very bold and outlandish claims in her first post(s)

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@Melanque-Say what ain't so?

you ninja'd me, it was in response to Dunn's Very Serious Post on me above

Is your intention to demean Dunn and by extension their scumread on you with this post?

yo norwee, the more I think about it the less I like this post

Every day that goes by without Catboi trying to kill Mena I become more convinced they are on the same team

is this a semi-serious post or?

[snip]

I don't really see why such a post is particularly scummy really. I've since caught up and reflected on where I feel the game is at - I just was quite surprised coming in and seeing so much content on the go already.

I think CSF's point was fair enough that I'll generally read back and make sure I know where I am with the game, but it was night for me anyway hence I knew I'd be delayed on a full catch-up until morning.

it's mostly an empirical thing -- hence why it's v weak +scum, but it does seem that slots that later flip scum are slightly more likely to make the complaint

or hey, maybe I'm confbiased, but I do it myself half the time and I still think that it comes from scum more

thanks!

I voted CSF for 3 reasons:

(1) I think malc's "oh god 11 pages already" thing is very slightly +scum, but CSF's "he seems like he wouldn't mind the legwork of reading 10 pages" reads as overjustification to me

(2) she didn't say hello to me

(3) *reserved for now*

Hi mena

Interested in ~reserved for now~

hi! *reserved for now* will be revealed at such time that it's appropriate

what do you make of well done?

thanks!

I voted CSF for 3 reasons:

(1) I think malc's "oh god 11 pages already" thing is very slightly +scum, but CSF's "he seems like he wouldn't mind the legwork of reading 10 pages" reads as overjustification to me

(2) she didn't say hello to me

(3) *reserved for now*

What do you think of my Malcolm take?

I would need to know what it is

bear with me

dunn, you continue to astonish me with the amount of effort you put in, time and time again, to not understanding my play

460 was done 537 was me (Luke) - but we synced on this read in real time

that's kinda weirdChamp then, bud

[Menalque]

thanks!

I voted CSF for 3 reasons:

(1) I think malc's "oh god 11 pages already" thing is very slightly +scum, but CSF's "he seems like he wouldn't mind the legwork of reading 10 pages" reads as overjustification to me

(2) she didn't say hello to me

(3) *reserved for now*

What do you think of my Malcolm take?

as far as I can see it's unexplained -- why does it lean town for you?

however, I liked 407. not bc I think it says anything about your alignment, but it made me chuckle

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dunn, you continue to astonish me with the amount of effort you put in, time and time again, to not understanding my play

This post very much feels like a deflection. Convenient way to ignore the point being made.

why... would I address the point that's being made?

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Sure

VOTE: malc

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Oh, happy cake day StD!

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Man, it’s not even sunny yet I’m getting all this shade

And I mean, you’re still not really answering the question — it’s one read, that as of this time I haven’t decided if it’s made up or not, and there is no meaningful pressure behind it

Why would I waste my time doing something dreary like rebutting it instead of continuing to trip the light fantastic with my buds

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Awww shit and FL is here too? So many tasty options

Nice to see you around again Klick! How’s everything? (I will except my “no reading things that happen while I’m asleep” rule to check the answer, promise )

Not too bad. New job training as an apprentice at a nursery. It's intense, but also satisfying in a way. And it's the same nursery that the kids go to, so it's nice getting to see them occasionally in the middle of the work day.
How're you?

[snip]
Mena idk if you're in a good mood this game, or if your playstyle has changed since we last played together, or what
But you feel pretty towny so far just based on vibes

gonna hit these both at the same time. that sounds cool, congrats! I worked in a summer camp for 3-5 year olds last year, so I have an inkling of the intensity (no idea how you're sustaining it longer term tbh) but definitely glad to hear that you like it!

I'm physically ill as of this morning, but overall doing pretty well. in a much better place mentally than when I used to play (huh, turns out that *checks notes* shouting at people on a mafia forum instead of *checks notes again* actually dealing with some pretty deep-seated issues was

not

a great or sustainable idea!) and just a lot more settled too. trying to make things work here in Madrid long-term but for the last few months it's been nice just having a steady work/lease on an apartment -- I also started getting very into bjj the last few months, so that's been interesting too

that probably is also somewhat of an answer to the play style thing -- I can still get snarky/annoyed and snap, but so far so good on not having any yellings at people or saying anything actually hurtful (at least, I hope so). I'm generally a lot more mellow than when we last were playing kinda regularly, and my reads have uh, declined somewhat in quality lol

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Oh, happy cake day StD!

Spoiler:

this is so dope, and I feel like from the image link it's not a real cake that you had made/was made for you, but I am going to believe that it is one that you are tucking into as we type

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Malcolm looks like he's genuinely solving

uh

where?

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yo norwee, the more I think about it the less I like this post

Ok.
Did you intend to go anywhere with this?

it felt sort of shit stir-y in a way that I normally wouldn't expect from town!you but would from scum!you trying to sow discord

on the flip side, I *think* I like you not trying to kill me for a change and voting malc

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mastina is not a beloved princess lmao

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I mean, bad lim anyway but I do not know why we're giving the BP thing credence

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you can't believe she's town

err

why?

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talking about BP is, and I cannot stress this enough,

incredibly boring

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and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages

in fairness, it's less that and more arguing about whether the people originally complaining about number of pages are or are not more likely to be scum

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Does it get any better?

aha, someone clearly didn't get to

my

posts yet!

...because then you would know that no, no it does not

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Keeper, how would you feel about doing something more interesting, like killing Malcolm?

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- I'm not really vibing with the wagon on monkeyman - to me it feels like he's getting voted for having weird or irrational opinions, not necessarily scum-motivated ones. The stuff he says might seem bizarre but I feel like he actually believes what he's saying. The pressure on him feels opportunistic in nature.

I can't speak for everyone who is voting him, but I don't think that's an accurate assessment of my scumread on him, at least. It's certainly not about his opinions. I think the way he responds to questioning is slimy. He has consistently made statements that appear confident, but when asked about where the basis of each statement is coming from, he has at times weakly defended it, or clearly made up a reason to justify it, or dodged the question, until finally usually coming back to say that the original statement was a joke or that it shouldn't be taken seriously. Saying that about an RVS vote is fine. But about reads made on page 20 of a game? And even if that is the case, why take the extra step of trying to justify it initially? The approach just feels scummy to me, like he cares more about his own appearances than about whatever it is he's saying.

I did feel a little hesitant, since he is the highest postcount player so far (mostly due to the pressure on him) and so maybe there's just more things to pick on, and maybe he would have been more likely to quiet down and let things blow over if he were scum.

I could see some of the votes like tictac sticking around from RVS being opportunistic. But that could always come from the opposite scum faction. I still like the chances of it being scum.

This is making me rethink a bit. Feel like Monkey has some suspect posts and a lot of stuff I don't really agree with, but not sure their approach so far is particularly conductive to someone who's mafia.

VOTE: Klick

Happier with my vote here for now.

hey malc, can you please explain a bit more what you meant by "not sure their approach so far is particularly conductive to someone who's mafia"?

also the reasons for the klick vote are those from 419 or was there anything else that made you decide to change your vote to there?

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1 Generally mafia want to blend in and avoid being noticed too much unless they're trying to sway town.

Reasoning for Klick was in 419 yes, although 2 I'd mentioned suspecting them once or twice before that too.

(1) why do you think this?

(2) you hadn't, actually

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Sure

VOTE: malc

This was a really lazy vote from Menalque as well after I asked a pretty basic question.

what makes it a lazy vote, amigo?

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okay, that's good enough for me I think

VOTE: bnuuy

here now

norwee, follow me to glory

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@catboi, what you said made sense but then I hated 648 and that made me feel better about killing him again. think his response to questioning on it has been ~reasonable~

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town:
butterchurn
StD
wallflower
well done
catboi
malc

leantown:
norwee
klick

nulltown:
The Keeper
Tracer Bullet


pile of null:
Nashville Dreams, Sword of Ducks, cassowary, tictac, mastina, papa leaf, MonkeyMan576, Enchant


nullscum:
CSF

scum?
toog
meg
bnuuy

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I don't wanna be angle-shooty and I'm not sure if this would qualify or not but how do you know momo didn't pick up the PM?

bc you're in there for me bc whoever said (I think mastina) that momo is fairly notorious for Noping the fuck out of a scum role PM was spittin' straight truth

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Melanque

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nullscum:
CSF

I had forgotten about your earlier vote on Cat Scratch Fever. Do you have any thoughts on her more recent posts?

she's just rubbing me the wrong way, kinda -- like I think I should find her townier than I do from what she's posted so far, but she hasn't been setting the alarm off completely

momo will be replaced if they fail to pick up their role PM by tomorrow morning.

Replacing momo.

oh, I completely missed this, back into the pile of null you go, friendo

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Oops...I shall not do that again. And if I do you may call me Malcom as much as you like.

it's just a pet peeve, you're all good

also can you and norwee stop fighting because you're pretty much just talking past each other

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like, stop me stop me, oh stop me if I'm wrong

but it seems like this boils down to

Norwee: I have a serious read/conviction that you're scum but the

manner

in which I'm pushing it means that it can be characterised as light-hearted

malc: if you push someone that is aimed at affecting the outcome of the game and is by definition not something that can be lighthearted, therefore you're being contradictory

I think this probably comes down to malc being a newer player vs norwee having been around for a while

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also, for the record I agree with norwee -- you can push something in a light-hearted way while still genuinely believing in it and I don't think there's a contradiction there. it's about building a bit of pressure vs trying to make sure someone bites the dirt

pedit: pure toneread, although if they're Koba which is a maybe then they go back into null

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I figure if they're Koba then that should become clear soonish but for now I like the flippancy and irreverence

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@Mena Why vote teh bunny?

look at the ISO, if you still have questions hit me back up

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hey, std, how would you feel about joining me on bnuuy?

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also StD, I would love to hear more on what papa leaf has done that makes you not want to vote for him/what you liked about cassowary?

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Who the fuck is bnuuy

the hot new wagon that you want to vote for..?

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also StD, I would love to hear more on what papa leaf has done that makes you not want to vote for him/what you liked about cassowary?

flavor leaf is just gut i know he hasn't done much but i think i have a lot of other targets i'd rather vote for over him today

cassowary - besides the prodding of Sword of Ducks i really liked some of her posts for town looking back i'm not as impressed but i still think again as with flavor leaf there's just enough there to make me want to vote out a slew of other people over her

okay, that's fair

I also prob wouldn't lim papa leaf today unless he started wildly scumming it up which seems unlikely

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we start with the dangerous one first

wooooooo-wwwwwwwwwwww, rude

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also, pretty sure that means it is Koba lol, so tracer can go back into null as well

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rarely but sometimes

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VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

also, pretty sure that means it is Koba lol, so tracer can go back into null as well

What if i told you it is not.

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

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do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

[Menalque]

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

how would you feel about voting bnuuy in the meantime while waiting to spool out the catboi theory and campaign for support for a wagon on him?

okay second question: is this like knowing knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

It's: "They had an link to discord on their profile which revealed their main, but then removed it afterwards." knowledge.

oh lmao, well yea, I guess that helps

kay, second question because you have extra knowledge: is this someone whose reads should normally be good?

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but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

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you're not that good at scum sorry

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saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

[Menalque]

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

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it sounds like you have a problem with me which is okay, but I do find it distasteful that you're choosing to go for it via secret alt

[Menalque]

Your style is more lone wolfy and you mostly demoralize your team to the point where they stop playing so I'm not really priotizing elimming you.

this uh

sounds like you have some problem with me beyond the game, because I don't really think I tend to do that to my scumteams at all

[Menalque]

I don't think you're going to get a catboi lim through, so I'm not really worried either way

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oh

[Menalque]

now I have you here, would you mind answering the previous question about why you would expect catboi/me to be trying to kill each other?

[Menalque]

yeah I get what you're saying but I don't see catboi scum?

[Menalque]

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

I mean yeah, you're not wrong, I suppose I'm just not used to new(er) players taking that extra mental step to distance from what I would normally expect to be a desire to see me as town by now

as scum I'd be playing similarly yeah, I probably still have slightly lower WIM and willingness to post regularly, but I think that since my WIM as town has gone down the difference isn't so marked

also, glad to hear that you've enjoyed my posts either way!

[Menalque]

the fact that he still hasn't laid out why he townread catboi is very +++scum for him imo

I'm starting to come around to the idea of wagoning you as you're suggesting a strong familiarity with my play despite catboi not being someone I would be generally antagonistic with at the start of a game and because when have I ever been someone to lay out why I read someone a certain way unless I feel like doing so

[Menalque]

norwee, I'd still like an answer on whether TB's main generally has good reads or not

[Menalque]

norwee, I'd still like an answer on whether TB's main generally has good reads or not

Why do you want to know? I don't understand why this particular point is of interest to you so i wanna know first.

I want to know if this is bluster from a player who is normally pretty inaccurate but has a lot of undue self-confidence in their reads -- in which case I can just disengage and ignore it, maybe lim if it gets too disruptive

or if this is a player who should frankly know better and who typically has decent reads trying to go after me (who can, sometimes, be a not-terrible town player) and someone who I'm also thinking is town and who is a very strong town player -- because that reeks a lot more to me of scum motivation

[Menalque]

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

i feel like flavor leaf would do that as either alignment tho

you literally just watched flavor leaf play that large normal where he was "solving" and killing townies left and right (as a townie)

didn't he talk about being a god at the game in that game

i certainly remember something like that

yea he did

but he also ENTHUIASTICALLY PUSHED TOWNIE ELIM AFTER TOWNIE ELIM

EVEN WHEN HE WAS TOWN AND COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG HE WAS STILL HAPPILY PUSHING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT.

Do you see any enthusiasm from the dude at all?

i agree he's different

i imagine it was a humbling experience

I called you scum in that game on my first reads list, and was pushing ScumFrogger the entire game, and actively called Titus scum who was pocketing me and thus I felt they were town, but was aware of the pocket.


People see what they want to see, and then push the narrative they want.

But stands by, 2020 I had the best town year on site, and that's definitely not gone away.

You get me in a Day 4 situation in any town game, I will sit down and do the work, and solve. Larger games probably require a little later, but still.

I've unironically missed you, you know

[Menalque]

Catboi's left hand is worth more than you

yes, clearly you're not someone who has any personal issues with me at all

[Menalque]

actually yep

VOTE: tracer bullet

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Thing is, nobody ever thinks about the fact I only say this shit in the middle of games when I'm in a direct 1v1 with someone.

I know, but I admit I still sometimes forget when I'm the one in the middle of the 1v1 lol

[Menalque]

okay my dude

[Menalque]

no, I mostly think you're playing like a dick and so atp I'd just like to lim you to make the game more enjoyable

[Menalque]

okay my dude

[Menalque]

no, I think you're being deliberately rude/hurtful in the way you're phrasing things and going about trying to push catboi, and I think that's arse-y

[Menalque]

yea thanks for admitting you are not even trying to elim scum

so either you are:

(a) scum trying to misyeet town

or

(b) gamethrowing town

I don't think that every lim has to be on scum to be helpful to the wincon of limming all scum

idk if you're scum or not, but I think the game has a much higher chance of us locating them if we remove you from it

[Menalque]

like, you're clearly some combination of arrogant and operating in bad faith, and I'm pretty sure that the way you're engaging is going to make people other than just me not want to play/post very much which is normally very helpful for scum

so it doesn't really matter to me if you happen to be scum who's doing this strategically or town doing this because of... reasons? but either way I think town win% goes up if we lim you first

[Menalque]

I'll also admit to a strong distaste for shit-talking anyone when not on main or not willing to be upfront about who you are and what your relationships are to everyone

[Menalque]

also I won my last scumgame lol, I just wasn't on mena

[Menalque]

I'm at about 18% for Catboi right now.

y

[Menalque]

also I won my last scumgame lol, I just wasn't on mena

oh no, I've been baited into getting defensive lol

[Menalque]

I love how you keep trying to make this some kind of personal conflict and get mad like I've somehow grievously insulted you by suggesting you are not as good as Catboi at playing the scum!alignment.

my dude, that's never what I've been saying and either you know this and are openly posting in bad faith, or you're not reading my posts closely enough to comprehend what I'm actually saying

[Menalque]

I think it's probably both.

who else do you reckon we can get votes from?

norwee, you down to vote TB or nah?

[Menalque]

one can only hope*

*albeit with a sense of forboding and pessimism

[Menalque]

I'm also slightly afraid to push them more because I dont want to be threat night killed, but we've pushed past that point, I guess.

I much prefer the angle where scum think they can 1v1 me.

just remember the tradition between us if you're still here tomorrow morning

[Menalque]

okay my dude!

[Menalque]

I hope that everything is okay in your life

[Menalque]

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

thanks, butterchurn

I think I'm also gonna log tbh

@TB -- I mean yeah, I'm generally pretty good and happy but if I feel like someone is being intentionally mean in my direction then it tends to put a bit of a downer on my night regardless of if it's in an online forum game or if it's a student or if it's a friend/acquaintance. maybe I am being overly sensitive, idk but it's felt like there's been several points where you could have said something in a neutral or much kinder way and chose to phrase it in a way that was either wilfully unpleasant or could v easily be interpreted as such

I'm glad things are good in your life, though, I just kinda don't get why you're interacting with me in this way

[Menalque]

@Menalque - Do you think there's a chance you're pocketed by Catboi? I went back and checked some things, and their first post in the game was an RVS vote towards you.

The fact you are town reading them so strongly for reasons I'm not sure why, not that I'm confident in Catboi scum by any means, but their first post acknowledged you, which is a direct way to interact with another player, and that can easily lend to trust for being acknowledged.

uh, maybe, but I guess it's more -- a lot of people seem to kinda want catboi dead when while he hasn't had that much (bar one thing) that stood out as that towny to me, he also hasn't been scummy and I don't see the awkwardness in the early game that others are talking about. I also think town!catboi is a high priority lim for scum, so I can see both scum teams + potentially malefactor all playing into catboi paranoia to try and increase the odds of getting said mislim

the thing I really liked and I guess the main reason that I think catboi is town based on his own posting is 809 which I could jive with once I read back through malc's posting and paired it with what catboi is saying. having now talked to malc more on my own, and also feeling better about town there, I in turn feel good about catboi getting there before me and helping me to see it too

[Menalque]

ty both

okay, I'm actually logging now, it's kinda late here and I've got a job interview for a summer camp thing tomorrow

[Menalque]

Last night has kinda killed my desire to play for the moment so I’m probably gonna take a step away and just active lurk until the ganas come back

[Menalque]

Last night has kinda killed my desire to play for the moment so I’m probably gonna take a step away and just active lurk until the ganas come back

Sorry mena, hope you feel better

ty catboi

If any of you are jealous and want the same done for you

then it's probably not happening

[Menalque]

also, I'll be honest: that huge spoiler hasn't really done anything to sell me on catboi!scum but wallflower is now my top TR

could you say a bit more on why you think that me asking about where we could get votes from is something that is more likely to come from me as scum?

[Menalque]

I guess we see the game differently -- I don't view games as made up by a set of total individuals but more a set of relationships that tend towards grouping

I have my prior relationships, which steers how I'm going to interact/approach certain people, and then there's however the relationships are falling out in a particular game as it develops. either way, that means that there are people I suspect are more likely to vote with me and those who I think are less likely to do so. for instance, it was pretty unlikely that Well Done were gonna vote with me at my behest, even if they might vote there if they came to their own conclusion that TB was scum or someone who the game would benefit from eliminating

so what I'm asking is not "do you know specific people who will vote TB?" but instead "who are the people you feel like you've made a connection with this game who might get on board with the wagon?"

[Menalque]

no prob, I've learned from experience that I'm better at the "social" part of social deduction games than the "deduction" part lol, which is why I play into that side quite a bit

[Menalque]

okay, will say that if either of catboi or Malc ever flip scum the other one dies too lol

[Menalque]

I'm liking Flavor's approach here

hmm

what do you like about FL's approach? be specific

[Menalque]

I'm surprised, because most newer players tend to hate the way FL plays and want to murderise him for it

[Menalque]

SoD is not scum.

The more people say this without SoD doing anything, the more I am convinced that I am right.

Listen, think what you might, but SoD is not scum, damn it!

[Menalque]

I don't see a purpose of scum claiming to be VT and locking themselves in this early.

You can’t see me but I’m making a face where I’m frowning and my lips are pushed together and pulled back into my mouth

It’s meant to convey extreme scepticism

[Menalque]

The scepticism is about being locked in as VT

[Menalque]

Can we lim bnuuy now?

VOTE: bnuuy

[Menalque]

Wait, why am I asking

Ride with me to glory, fellow heroes! Now cometh the hour!

[Menalque]

Catboi > Nashville

Gonna have to give you the big ole wrong answer gameshow buzzer on the first one, but I guess I’ll listen on Nashville

[Menalque]

Can we lim bnuuy now?

VOTE: bnuuy

Do you think this vote feels easier because of bnuuy‘a lack of recent thread presence?

Eh i mean i mostly just think bnuuy is scum, but yes I would like to redirect attention there and away from you/catboi

[Menalque]

Bnuuy is not a compromise wagon

[Menalque]

Have you seen the iso?

[Menalque]

They seem nice and all, but that’s a scum iso papa leaf

[Menalque]

Okay, you can come and join me on bnuuy later in day when catboi doesn’t have enough traction

[Menalque]

Butterchurn, wanna join me on bnuuy again?

[Menalque]

Bnuuy didn't go anywhere last time seems like beating a dead horse.

TB distracted us, hop back on and watch the magic happen

[Menalque]

I can't really say anything is very scummy or townie about them.

How about the fact the majority of their ISO is just commentary on the game or unrelated things rather than actually sorting people or hunting for scum?

Despite the fact that they’ve been pretty active throughout

[Menalque]

Catboi, why aren’t you voting bnuuy with me again?

Also Klick, vote your heart if it tells you otherwise, but in the meantime and while you’re deciding, if you wouldn’t mind popping a vote on bnuuy so we can get a meaningful wagon, that would be ideal

[Menalque]

Menalque, you're here, hello!
How do you motivate yourself to sift through 50+ pages of stuff that may or may not be relevant or helpful?

I uh

Mostly don’t nowadays

I just read ISOs from people I like or who draw my attention and then read the spicy bits that stand out from reading the ISOs

[Menalque]

I would like someone to make fan art where enchant is Not_Mafia’s child

[Menalque]

I’m not sure the timing ever helped that much anyway

[Menalque]

Norwee, StD, how y’all feeling about hoppin right on over to a bnuuy wagon? I can either make more puns of this nature or stop doing it altogether if it means you’ll vote there with me!

[Menalque]

Menalque, you're here, hello!
How do you motivate yourself to sift through 50+ pages of stuff that may or may not be relevant or helpful?

I uh

Mostly don’t nowadays

I just read ISOs from people I like or who draw my attention and then read the spicy bits that stand out from reading the ISOs

I should possibly let my standards drop for my own full understanding of a game of this size. I normally make my reads based on strong feelings about one or two particular things a player does anyway, so a full game dissection shouldn't be needed for that.

It makes it far easier to keep up imo, and also you beat yourself up a lot less for not having read everything if you just take the approach you’re not going to try to

My reads are v far from the best anyway, but I can’t say I’ve noticed an appreciable drop in quality from doing it this way

[Menalque]

Oh, thanks!

I missed it and was going off last VC

[Menalque]

Norwee, StD, how y’all feeling about hoppin right on over to a bnuuy wagon? I can either make more puns of this nature or stop doing it altogether if it means you’ll vote there with me!

I’d take the extra buns for now

Then it’d be positively punderful if you’d pop a vote down on bnuuy so we can really get the party started up in hare

[Menalque]

@monkey, interested in getting back on bnuuy now? I think we’re up to like 5 and norwee will probably join us once I reread him the story of the hare and the tortoise to remind him not to underestimate the leporidae family

[Menalque]

In that case you should vote with me and then leverage the towncred from limming scum today to help you with trying to get catboi tomorrow

It’s only gonna be harder for you if he’s on this scum lim with me while you’re trying to get him flipped

[Menalque]

Beautiful things are happening

Let’s get it up to 10, c’mon now y’all

[Menalque]

I'm happy with where I am atm.

I thought you were after voting for viable wagons?

[Menalque]

If I die tonight, you kill Catboi

Yeah, okay, that’s fair

[Menalque]

Wallflower, if I don’t see you joining me on this wagon after I hooked you up with both a fantastic and a terrible pun then you’re gonna break my heart

[Menalque]

Menalque can take the brunt and blame here if Bnuuy's town.

That is generally how it works, yes

[Menalque]

Okay I’m treating enchant as technically voting for everyone at the same time, which means we have 8

Two more folks, who’s it gonna be

Get your sweet towncred while it’s hot

[Menalque]

when I joined this game I didn't want any drama to happen, now it has and I'm feeling down
if y'all want to vote me out then be my guest tbh but that's at least why I haven't been engaged recently
I'll add that cassowary doesn't really feel like she did when I saw her as scum before so that's probably a good sign

I’m sorry you’re feeling down bnuuy, you seem like a cool person

However even prior to drama I didn’t really see any solving in your ISO and that’s enough for me to kill you

If you’re town it would be very helpful to me if you could tell me who you think is scum and why

[Menalque]

But I think I’m getting needlessly philosophical

PEdit: menalque, I loved the pun, I really did, but catboi has made a lot of posts without comment in regard to their read of me and it’s weirding me out, especially given the bnuuy hop

I love getting needlessly philosophical, but there’s no need to let it stand in the way of a good practical vote

And I know that you have issues with catboi — I did read your big spoiled case, but I wanted to let him respond to it on his own. I think the reasons for why you have him as scum there are mostly just things about how he plays/how the meta is these days, rather than good indications he’s scum

Now I could be totally wrong and eat shit later this game, but for now, would it not be very exciting to have our first wagon to reach 10 votes, aka making threat of elimination actually present, aka bringing the gsme into the ~serious~ and ~high stakes~ territory?

[Menalque]

And to be honest, I didn't really want to bring this up in-game but I kind of think he has a grudge against me or something. Don't get it, I don't have anything against him.

Just my two cents catboi, but I don’t think norwee carries grudges against anyone really

I think if he did then he 1000% would have against me when we first started playing together but he never has

[Menalque]

I mean I pushed him over and over again in multiple games, was wrong multiple times, including one time when he was a PR and widely TR and I basically strong armed the whole thing after repping in on D4 or something

He’d get annoyed with me during the pushes, but he never held it over game-to-game when he would have had every reason to

[Menalque]

Okay I need a break. Will be back later

Bye wallflower, hope you’re okay!

[Menalque]

I still dislike monkeyman shading me + Dragons for the reason he did
I feel you could be scum who felt challenged by TB’s talk of his scumplay
butterchurn’s reaction to TB saying scum were squirming felt not great

Could you uh

Expand on all of these please

I kinda get what you’re getting at with me, I think, but I’d like to hear more to be sure

What was bad about the way monkey shaded you/dragons and why does it make him scum?

What was it about butterchurn’s reaction to TB that made it feel not great? Why was the not great feel to it something that makes you think butter is scum?

Also, just for general knowledge, how much maf experience do you have?

[Menalque]

Bnuuy wagon can’t be boring yet, we didn’t get to 10 votes

[Menalque]

You were leaving me out of mention for the MU thing and it felt like you were taking passive-aggressive digs against me by praising everyone else in contrast to me.

I just haven't seen you play well.
Like i said earlier, i've never seen your scumplay and haven't been particurarly impressed by the towngames you've had with me in it. That doesn't mean i carry some deep personified hatred. I just know you much less than the other people i voted because i've had games with them where i was impressed. Like it's kinda ridiculous to suggest this to me in the first place, but just to clarify. I got nothing against you as an person.

All right, fair enough, I feel like I did fine in some of the games we were in but Control was pretty bad from me, I had an okay POE but didn't have the motivation or the will to push them. I'm just being overly sensitive, I guess.

You’re both pretty and intelligent

[Menalque]

Bnuuy came in here and town'd it up.

Gameshow buzzer noise thingy again

[Menalque]

I still dislike monkeyman shading me + Dragons for the reason he did
I feel you could be scum who felt challenged by TB’s talk of his scumplay
butterchurn’s reaction to TB saying scum were squirming felt not great

Could you uh

Expand on all of these please

I kinda get what you’re getting at with me, I think, but I’d like to hear more to be sure

What was bad about the way monkey shaded you/dragons and why does it make him scum?

What was it about butterchurn’s reaction to TB that made it feel not great? Why was the not great feel to it something that makes you think butter is scum?

Also, just for general knowledge, how much maf experience do you have?

The scum feels on you are the weakest out of those
Monkeyman made a big deal of STD’s mastina vote and then tried to shade me when I wouldn’t go with him on it and instead voiced a TR on StD
butterchurn felt like he was reacting to TB because he felt called out by TB’s post, and only scum would have reason to feel that way

Thanks for the answers bnuuy!

I’m about to log and my mental processing capacity for the day is kinda used up, so vote stays as it is for now, but I’ll have a look and see if I think these are believable scumreads when I’m next around

[Menalque]

Bnuuy came in here and town'd it up.

Gameshow buzzer noise thingy again

Means nothing to me on Day 1.

Catboi is scum whether you like it or not.

We can keep making noises at each other but I think we both know deep down that neither is selling the other on changing their mind today

Maybe post flips depending on how they shake out, but we’re mostly just dancing to dance, right FL?

[Menalque]

I'm getting cold feet on bnuuy tbh

Keep the pressure on

You don’t let it drop at the first stirrings, you maintain it and see what happens

If we can’t keep a wagon at a decent number of votes for at least like a day or two then it’s gonna be real hard to coordinate when it is time to lim, be that on bnuuy or elsewhere

[Menalque]

Catboi and StD: I am entrusting custodianship of the bnuuy wagon to you both in my absence

Do not allow a certain F. L. Avourleaf to unrail it in my absence

[Menalque]

Doubtful

You’re trying very hard to unrail it as it stands, up to and including your old vote-then-unvote trick which I have seen before, even if others may not have

[Menalque]

So either catboi or wallflower is the correct elim for today.

Am I gonna have to go back to using the big red “X”s instead of saying buzzer noise

[Menalque]

I guess last thing before I leave: have we played together bnuuy?

[Menalque]

If a tell is 75-25, you still have to use gut to determine if it's the 75 or the 25.

That would entirely defeat the point of having a tell that works 75% of the time unless your gut was also accurate 75% of the time, in which case you wouldn’t need your gut. The point of having a tell with decent accuracy is that you follow it regardless of what your gut says because it improves your overall accuracy.

Your point on mono is depressingly good though

[Menalque]

If a tell is 75-25, you still have to use gut to determine if it's the 75 or the 25.

That would entirely defeat the point of having a tell that works 75% of the time unless your gut was also accurate 75% of the time, in which case you wouldn’t need the tell. The point of having a tell with decent accuracy is that you follow it regardless of what your gut says because it improves your overall accuracy.

Your point on mono is depressingly good though

Ebwop

[Menalque]

Hey tictac, why are you voting catboi anyway?

[Menalque]

Catboi, who you wanna vote?

[Menalque]

I could do FL if that’s what you’re getting at cb

[Menalque]

I could do FL if that’s what you’re getting at cb

I don't know if I'm going to get support for it on day 1, I tend to play by picking off the minnows before going for the big fish but I feel actually really damn good about my townreads this game which is pretty crazy for day 1, which makes me think my POE is good.

I can do anyone except Norwee in your SR section, other than that I like your reads bar Wallflower who is the towniest slot in the game and TB who I’m still not sure on after the shitfest the other day, wanna see how the replacement goes

Don’t agree with you 100% but we’re close enough that I’m pretty sure you’re town given how much and badly you’ve been pushed thus far, and how much I think scum would want you dead

Plus I’m trusting myself to do a hard re-eval to win the game on N4 if you are scum

[Menalque]

Anyway, lemme know where you wanna vote and I’ll sheep you @catboi

You’re leading any charges until I get some energy back tho, I poured a lot of energy in and even tho I’m feeling better from the Covid I just don’t have the WIM for any big 1v1s or pushing stuff through rn

[Menalque]

I've been on Catboi all game, which is not something I do as scum.

You’ll do anything as scum because you have absolute faith in your ability to talk your way out of any situation lol

[Menalque]

If memory serves correctly, an FL claiming he doesn’t do certain things as scum is an FL who’s much more likely to be scum

[Menalque]

VOTE: tictac

[Menalque]

Menalque is a good town player

Hi, we haven’t met!

[Menalque]

We can also go back to bnuuy but I’m leashing my vote to catboi so talk to him

[Menalque]

Wait

We have

[Menalque]

Menalque is a good town player

Hi, we haven’t met!

yes we have, it was an explosive miccro after all

you mean year of II..?

[Menalque]

Not interested in bnuuy

Y?

[Menalque]

Your regular account begins with a or d?

Also I couldn’t remember if there’d been a third one I played in lmao

[Menalque]

Your regular account begins with a or d?

Also I couldn’t remember if there’d been a third one I played in lmao

Ohhhhhhh hi you’re not who I thought you were at all lmao, your tone is totally different

[Menalque]

We can do bnuuy or tictac but we should commit on one of them

[Menalque]

why are people so scared to vote bnunny?

I was going to make a point about how there is

so much

resistance to voting one of the many nothing posters but it was super easy to drive a wagon on me or monkeyman

The Bnuuy wagon is literally the wagon that was the biggest this entire game.

For like 2 pages before you killed it

[Menalque]

Sometimes scum just don’t look at the PT Malc

[Menalque]

You any good at reading mastina @scp

[Menalque]

Catboi or Menalque.

Pick one, and let's end the day.

lol

[Menalque]

you’re funny sometimes papa leaf

[Menalque]

ok after some thought, here is a GtH list of people I think could potentially contain all scum:

tictac
butterchurn
bunny
klick
menalque
enchant
cass
nashville
csf

Uh

Fuckin

Excuse me, SCP?!

[Menalque]

Imagine thinking I’m the malefactor and not just nicer than I used to be

How sadge

[Menalque]

usually when I do play scum I tend to eventually go rouge on my teammates and do dumb shit that gets me killed

Maybe stop doing that?

[Menalque]

omg can we please end the day alreadyyyyy

[Menalque]

Flavor, this pre-flip associative shit you’re doing is kinda terrible if it starts from a flawed beginning and then you try to play your entire game off it

Pls stop and think again if ur town

[Menalque]

I consider it a personal failure that we're at page 143 and this day still somehow hasn't ended

I maintain that going over 100 pages on D1 is always a bad idea

[Menalque]

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

[snip]

VOTE: nashville dreams

[Menalque]

I think FL is probably malefactor tbh but may just be scum

it's not inconceivable that he's town here but it went at a certain point from babbling normal FL to babbling in such a way that it's actively disruptive and confusing FL which is, I think, more a feature of his scumgame (also I didn't like that he was supposedly pretty sold on me being town until the point where I suggested I would be down to vote him at which point I became a top 3 lim for him -- I also don't like that his lim priorities would roughly line up with "people I think he would like to see limmed if they were town and he were scum")

[Menalque]

and it is working

yes

I have the same problem of not having the energy to try and deal with it

[Menalque]

can you please chill out a bit catboi

[Menalque]

I know that shit from behind alts is a special kind of frustration but it's not really helping anyone including yourself

maybe take a break from thread and come back later?

[Menalque]

that's all really shit dude, and I can see how that would be incredibly frustrating, but please try to keep to attacking the play not the player etc etc

nobody wants to see you eat a ban, and also fwiw I think that wallflower reads as genuinely trying to sort you -- dead wrong, perhaps, but trying

[Menalque]

catboi

please

[Menalque]

walk away man, I'm asking you as a friend who has your best interest at heart

come back later

[Menalque]

I hope you feel better late

take care!

[Menalque]

fuck, sorry to hear that Norwee, hope you feel better soon <3

[Menalque]

I think the AtE is NAI probably and I don't think it's that helpful in sorting catboi

healthiest thing to do is try to move past it imo

[Menalque]

also it's a decent yeet

nyet

[Menalque]

Keeper is prob town

confused frowny face

[Menalque]

ND feeling like the inevitable elim at this point with people being less inclined to try and strike up a new wagon

I think quite a lot of us are still down to CFD bnuuy or tictac tbh

[Menalque]

Is there anyone who thinks the VCs are misleading? I don't want to spend time on the wagon analysis only to then have people say shit is misleading when I have an hour a day tops.

~Titus

they completely miss the like 8-9 vote bnuuy wagon bc ceph wasn't online, I'd include that too if you're trying to do wagonomics

[Menalque]

VOTE: csf flashwagon

eh let's try it

VOTE: cat scratch fever

ew no

[Menalque]

VOTE: csf flashwagon

eh let's try it

VOTE: cat scratch fever

ew no

give us your power 9 scumreads then

I don't have 9 power scum reads but I'd like to either lim ND if there's appetite there or bnuuy or tictac or FL (but I don't think that's likely to be successful so mostly bnuuy or tictac if we're CFDing)

[Menalque]

I just don't like CSF as a pivot, she still isn't screaming town or as town as I'd like but there was a post that I liked somewhere in there and that's enough for me to not want to lim her today

[Menalque]

oh, I'd also totally kill toogs tbh

[Menalque]

not kill-able:

wallflower
catboi
mastina
butterchurn
norwee
well done
CSF
StD
SoD
enchant
SCP
malc
klick

kill-able:
FL
bnuuy
toogs
tictac
ND
cass
monkey
the keeper
meg

NB: these are not ordered or even necessarily town/scum lists, just who I would be down to murderise and who I wouldn't be