Newbie 1765 | URW | Endgame

[Superhans]

Hello Everybody!

LicketyQuickety, what do you mean by IC? You're an experienced ayer right, meant to help us noobs? Are can ICs be assigned as mafia?

Sorry for these very basic questions but it would be even stupider of me not to.ask.

[Superhans]

Also sorry for terrible punctuation I'm using my phone at the moment, grammar will improve in the future.

[Superhans]

Voting for yourself is scummy imho.
Join the Dominator bandwagon.

VOTE: TheDominator27

[Superhans]

Shhould I vote toblerone187 because saying silly things are scummy is scummy (in this case saying silly things are scummy is scummy)?

[Superhans]

As my first action, the cop is going to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

Hey LicketyQuickety,
Can you explain in more detail what you meant by this?

Thanks,

[Superhans]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

[Superhans]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

I kinda wanted Lickety to respond, thanks ConnorJC. Lickety, perhaps you want to add more to you answer that it was a reaction. What have you observed from this reaction test?

[Superhans]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

I kinda wanted Lickety to respond, thanks ConnorJC. Lickety, perhaps you want to add more to you answer that it was a reaction. What have you observed from this reaction test?

I think he was looking for someone to point out the fact that he looks like he has knowledge of the setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

Again, I would like to point out that although I appreciate your response, I was really hoping I could get a response from Lickety for this one.

In addition to the first question, I've a new question for LicketyQuickety:

You imply frequently that you have alternative ways of playing the game and making reads. This is demonstrated by the posts:

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

I don't want the responsibility of having to give "correct" theory. Reason for this is I tend to think outside the box a bit.

And in your blurb thing you've written that "As someone with a creative pattern, you tend to seek unique accomplishments and innovative solutions. On the surface, you may seem to have a contradictory nature. ~Taken from my results regarding motivation from DISC personality test."

What do you think makes your game theory different to traditional game theory?
Also what are you non-traditional reads?

[Superhans]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

[Superhans]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

[Superhans]

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

[Superhans]

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

Scum post.

Yeah I think that smiley face does seem pretty scummy now that you mention it.

In all seriousness what I did may appear scummy, and perhaps I rushed too quickly onto the lurker Wagon. my reasoning was that if lots of people vote for someone who's lurking, they'll freak out when they log in, and play more aggressively.

In all seriousness, I was voting Lovesick to put pressure on him

[Superhans]

* ignore last two sentences, this is what happens when I try using my phone.

[Superhans]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

Nachos, to answer your post where you had replied to me, it was simply a post of acknowledgement that we had started as I was out of town and I didn't have the time in my day to make a more decent reply than give (Whoever had asked about ICs) a brief explanation and an opinion/thought - not very contributive but it's the least i could do.

Now i wont continue with the excuses as the bottom line is that it was very inconvenient of the time the game started and when the activity had spiked up. So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

YO LOVESICK tell us your scum/town reads from reading all the posts you were 'lurking' (probably sleeping) through.

[Superhans]

VOTE: superhans

Lickety seems very noob town to me.

Hey TheDominator37 can you explain why you voted for me?

[Superhans]

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

Scum post.

Yeah I think that smiley face does seem pretty scummy now that you mention it.

In all seriousness what I did may appear scummy, and perhaps I rushed too quickly onto the lurker Wagon. my reasoning was that if lots of people vote for someone who's lurking, they'll freak out when they log in, and play more aggressively.

In all seriousness, I was voting Lovesick to put pressure on him

1) You said you would unvote them once they posted, so not only is this a non-committal vote, but it defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place.
2) You are asking something of someone that you haven't done adequately enough yourself ie. reads. You make it sound like the lurker should have definite stances at this point in the game, when you yourself are not doing anything close to that.

3) You make jokes about the smiley being Scummy when I actually didn't list any reasons for why I thought it was a Scummy post. You then go on to interpret why I read the post as Scummy, so you clearly know at least part of the reason for why it is Scummy, which leaves me wondering why you made the post in the first place as Town... Unless you knew it could be interpreted as Scummy when/shortly after you made the post, which is what I am thinking, which is why I think you are Scum.
4) The you give a second reason for your vote. This is over explaining your position. You were Sitting there thinking what you could say to defend yourself and prolly came up with the second bit first then went back and added more of an explanation to you vote which is what we see as the first reason. Either one of these answers wouldn't been too Scummy on their own, but put together, both saying about the same thing (one just more elaborate) and that makes for an over explanation and over explanations (in defence) are Scummy in my book.

I didn't say that I would unvote one Lovesick had posted. I said I would unvote once Lovesick had offered an original scum/town diagnosis.

Lovesick, sorry for messing up your pronoun (I feel like a complete div right now, if that makes you feel any better). Thanks for you scum read on Nacho,

UNVOTE: Lovesick

What have I offered so far? Well I have put pressure on you to create more content (although you may have done so anyways). I also said in post that I had my eyes on LQ and ConnorJC; not going as far as saying I think they are scum, but I found LQs starting gambit about cops annoying, annoying that LQ kept on saying he was thinking outside of the box, had non-traditional ways of reading, then scum reading me with no explanation. ConnorJC was baseless in hindsight (just annoyed he kept on answering my question to LQ). I would say ConnorJC reads as neither towny or scummy at this point.

[Superhans]

Oh and heres a little compilation of all of TheDominators contributions so far:

VOTE: Dom
EARLY GAME WAGON WOOOO!!!!!

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

VOTE: superhans

Lickety seems very noob town to me.

Domintaor you need to dominate the conversation a bit more.

[Superhans]

I didn't say that I would unvote one Lovesick had posted. I said I would unvote once Lovesick had offered an original scum/town diagnosis.
...
UNVOTE: LoveSick

But, Lovesick hasn't offered any reads/thoughts. Why the unvote?

As a matter of fact, Lovesick's only contributions are defending herself. Not one post actively participating in the 'find scum' part of mafia.
VOTE: LoveSick

(L-2)

Lovesick did offer a contribution. She stated that Nacho is sketchy.
I said I'd jump off the Lovesick Wagon once Lovesick offered some original and judgemental content.

@Lovesick + everyone else, can we brainstorm the possibility of Nachomamma, an IC, being mafia. Is this likely, anyone getting any Town reads off of him.

Personal opinion is that I find Nacho unsettling because of how calculating he seems (post #64 for instance) but it isn't logical, more of a gut feeling.

[Superhans]

LicketyQuickety, you've voted for Rautherdir. Would you want to convince others to do the same and why?

[Superhans]

That's a fast change mate, mind explaining?

I expect the "combine our efforts" phraseology gave away pretty solidly what the purpose of the vote was, and Superhaus's assertion that he'd unvote when Lovesick gave content showed that he picked up on that purpose. It would be a scummy change of mindset of what he made was a vote with the intention of lynching, but that pretty clearly wasn't the case.

Well, I am Town reading Lovesick for it, so there is that.

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Well, It gave me a Town read that you don't disagree with.

You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

Asking someone what they are doing when they are doing something confusing is not fishing; it's proper play.

Well, I am terrible at proper play.

Is it just me, or does anyone else struggle to understand what LicketyQuickety is actually saying? You're really confusing me, just be more specific with your comments.

What town read did it give you that Nacho agrees with?
Why are you town reading lovesick, what does town reading lovesick have to do with the comments you quoted above?

[Superhans]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

You will make a fine smith one day.

If you genuinely think so, sure. But just to clarify: if you're scum, complimenting me isn't going to get me to townread you.

In post 105 LQ also said I was intelligent (I thought this was a classic example of brown nosing at the time).

Connor is a Town read for jumping the gun and trying to get result before anything is conclusive. You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

You like brown nosing LQ?

[Superhans]

Superhans, anyone you think is mafia/town right now?

Finding Lovesick insufferable, but that doesn't mean she is mafia, just a terrible townie.

TheDominator is mafia (not an original insight).

LQ is definitely snakelike, but not sure that makes him mafia. Slightly scum leaning I would say for now.

[Superhans]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

[Superhans]

@ Lovesick,

TheDominator also voted for me with 0 explanation in the post. (e.g. jumping on the Superhans wagon for no apparent reason).

[Superhans]

There are four different situations with the upcoming Rautherdir vs LicketyQuickety fight.

1) R is scum, trying to appear town-ish by using potentially broken logic to trick the town into lynching LQ.
2) R is town and LQ is scum and the logic he is working with is valid.
3) R is town and LQ is town (most likely), the argument will hopefully yield good content though.
4) Both R and LQ are mafia trying a really cliche technique of pretending to fight each other to gain town trust.

I personally think number 3 is most likely, and number 4 least likely, but wouldn't be surpised if 1/2 is the case.

We'll have to wait for Rautherdir to return before properly making an evaluations.

[Superhans]

Million dollar question, is Lovesick a genius mafia, or goofiest townie ever?

Also Connor, by logical i mean with evidence from night phases which we can use to deduce and conclude things with ease other than make assumptions purely made on the first few posts in Day 1. Normally (At least where i played) Day 1 is a warm up, we get cozy and slowly introduce our playstyles to eachother hence my not so contribution to the actual objective. As also as a norm, I never do reads day 1 because it's too early to judge, too early to analyse, deduce, conclude and speak so confidently about my own thoughts when it comes to other players however I do understand why that may not be the case here because of the length of the days which personally i think is ridiculous but also logical in its own ways

^"I never do reads day one" & "We get cozy and make slowly introduce our playstyles".

I don't rate that comment at all.

[Superhans]

5) they never come up with a case, which is basically a Scum claim in my book.

I mean its not that difficult to come up with a case for you Lickety. I may agree with lots of the stuff Rautherdir has to say.

[Superhans]

I'm not going to comment on what my case is purely because I want to hear what Rautherdir has to say first without influence from me.

[Superhans]

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

I particularly don't think anyone is leaning town or mafia as of right now, however there are certain parts of people's playstyles which make me wary/cautious of them

Superhans - His very switchy behaviour where he hops from one thing to another, almost indecisively and usually dropping down on the people which he pursues after minimal effort ( Almost as if trying to blend town but trying to not get involved too much )

Connor - Continues to request reads from people after providing minimal ones himself, pursuing after players which are already being pursued. In my opinion following after Nacho a bit too much

Rautherdir - Justifying actions of others through Nacho's words and playstyle which I think is never justifiable as it is a preferred playstyle rather than something which should be followed.

These are some observations which I have made which make me cautious of the players.

Asking in depth questions =/= pursuing, and asking multiple people questions, and scum hunting different people doesn't mean that I'm not going to follow up.

[Superhans]

@ConnorJC, which of LicketyQuickety's do you disagree with?

@LicketyQuickety, please can you stop confusing players, its not going to help anybody bar you. It just slows down how quickly people can read all the comments, and make people more inclined to skipping through them and potentially missing clues.

[Superhans]

lol yeah why would Lovesick being confused mean that she is town?

[Superhans]

Or it could just be because no one understands half of what you are saying, regardless of alignment.

[Superhans]

So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

You keep framing the wagons like they have no purpose unless they are perfectly justified - nothing in mafia will be perfectly justified. Oftentimes you will catch scum for the wrong reasons. Content generation is about putting people in positions where they will have alignment-relevant reactions; maybe everyone votes you and you simply flake out (not alignment indicative), or maybe you get fired up and try to read the people voting you (what you did). I'm fine with giving people room as far as lynching is concerned, but I have no problems with pursuing a lead whenever and wherever I might find them.

Nacho, we've kinda moved on from discussing the Lovesick Wagon, as it wasn't really that fruitful.

[Superhans]

I'm not hiding them, they are just too hard to say.

Scum read.

Kinda think my English teacher actually described the English language as being limited by the imagination, not limited by how "outside-of-the-box" your methods are.
Explain, also explain clearly (because you also have a habit of confusing everyone with even the simplest comments).

I don't care how long your explanation is, as long as it is sincere, and makes some sense.

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[Superhans]

Nacho, we've kinda moved on from discussing the Lovesick Wagon, as it wasn't really that fruitful.

Why wasn't it fruitful?

Huge amounts of arguments in which Lovesick was ONLY commenting large amounts of defensive content, and not actually offering anything original at all.

[Superhans]

@Nachomamma8, in answer to your questions on why isn't it fruitful to talk about the Lovesick Wagon and my reads on Lovesick.

Lovesick's first comment was:

ICs can be any alignment I believe, they're here to help the new, troubled players with the ways things work and etc however no more than that - correct me if I'm wrong though. Hopefully we have a spike of activity at one point otherwise this game may get difficult.

Calling for more activity, yet offering nothing herself to help initiate the activity. After the Lovesick wagon, she certainly provides content, but it the kind of content that clogs up your drains and makes sewege spill out of your toilet when you try and flush:

#113 Game theory & Defensive talk.
#131 Game theory.
#132 <-- After this I remove my vote on her for her scum readings on you (or so I thought)
#157 Buuut her next post actually takes back what I thought was a scum reading on you
Post 157 also contains this nice little passage which I have already commented on in #268
#160 Actually a scum read on me, which would be good, but I don't think contributes that much, as there is no examples, or further evidence.
#163 Game theory.
#165 Game theory.
#166 Game theory.
#173 Game theory.
#180 Game theory.
#207 Scum read on me, but also not very in depth. & Defensive
#211 Scum read on Nacho, but honestly its really not very deep.
#216 n/a
#223 Game theory.
#226 Game theory.
#229 Game theory.
#231 Defensive
#236 Game theory.
#237 Game theory.
#241 Game theory / Defensive (?)
#244 Good questions.
#248 n/a
#251 n/a
#261 n/a
#271 Scum read on me for being too jumpy, doesn't expand upon this. Has reads on Nacho, Connor and Rauth.
#272 Game theory.
#276 Defensive.

I whipped this list up quickly, and Game theory is a really really loose term, basically I used it to label her posts that didn't analyse other peoples comments, didn't ask other people questions or offer reads. If Lovesick implicitly mentioned someone as being scummy/towny/suspicious etc I put the scum read next to it.
You can see that most of the posts are on game theory.

Common Lovesick Game Theory Themes

By game theory I just mean discussions that are often imho not very constructive and look into the best way we should be playing the game.
Lovesick emphasises:

* Playing it slowly on other servers.
* Whether you should target multiple suspicious players at once
* Whether it is productive to target lurking players.

I basically disagree with most of what Lovesick believes. I think that early game lurk wagons are a good idea, Lovesick doesn't;
Lovesick is playing it far too safe for my liking, and even though she does make scum reads, they are all 'on the fence' scum reads, like Superhans you're suspious for x reason, but I need more evidence.
If Lovesick thinks I'm suspicious she should interrogate me, or provide quotes as evidence or offer examples of my "jumpy behaviour".

tldr

I think that Lovesick is town, but is offering virtually nothing of value to the conversation. I think she is town just because of how defensive she became when we were on the Lovesick-is-a-lurker wagon.

I thought that she had made a scum read on you in post 132, but when then takes it back, saying it wasn't a serious suspicion.

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[Superhans]

^ Daaamnn

Just tried one of these links, I saw that green code with [post= ] [/post] and thought it was referring to posts in this thread *facepalm*

Well I didn't want to play the noobcard, but I guess I can't help myself.

[Superhans]

Please please please no one bother to fix my hideous mistake. Basically you can get the same information from viewing Lovesick with 'ISO'. The key point of the huge list of analysing her posts was that she doesn't say anything helpful, so don't drag up the Lovesick wagon again.

[Superhans]

Or do drag up the wagon, but insist that Lovesick doesn't just spam her (imho terrible) Game theory on how we should only focus on one player at a time.

[Superhans]

I'm not hiding them, they are just too hard to say.

Scum read.

Kinda think my English teacher actually described the English language as being limited by the imagination, not limited by how "outside-of-the-box" your methods are.
Explain, also explain clearly (because you also have a habit of confusing everyone with even the simplest comments).

I don't care how long your explanation is, as long as it is sincere, and makes some sense.

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OK, so story time (yay!) When I first started playing the game, I got Scum read... a lot. I was lynched Day 1 8 times out of my first 16 games. People never understood my logic, barring few, and the ones who understood, really understood - they knew exactly where I was coming from and how to interpret my posts. Fast forward ~8ish months. I start seeing myself get Town read, not dying so early so often and generally having decent reads. Made it to late game a few times in my career and I am rarely wrong in Lylo as Town (never made it to Lylo as Scum). IDK when this was, but at some point when I was playing a Mafia game that was not really a Mafia game and I was 3p, I found that I am not too bad at breaking the system. My win con for that game is seen here:

Welcome to DragonCon, TheQuickOne!

You are the Indestructible 3p. That's right, YOU CANNOT DIE. (Unless you are modkilled. Don't make me!) Wincon is to be hit by a kill, investigated, and successfully target someone to protect them from Con Crud. You may choose one target to protect each cycle.

You are now a part of the Third Party team. You can hang out with them during the day here: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/svsEDj2CzWC

You are sharing a room here: Room E - http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/HRnquyjjFCXXS

Your Roommates:
StaceofBass
hawkataine
Earthious
Tsubaki

You must choose a daytime destination in here no later than two hours before phase change. Violators will be fined and locked in the basement with the unwashed carriers of con funk. Or worse.

You have $100 to spend. You may borrow and lend, or buy, sell, and trade with other players.

All actions, day or night, must be in bold so I can find them easily, thank you very much.

I only had an inclination to it looking back, but this was really the game that I learned just how crazy I could play and not get Lynched/NKed. At the very start of the game I claimed that I was a treestump who got a passive guilty on someone N0. That person was lynched, while I was not. I ended up actually investigating myself and NKing my partner fulfilling my win con IDK when I did the curd thing but I think it was N1 or N2.

I was then stuck in no man's land for a long time, not really knowing how to use my weird style to my advantage. Suffice to say, I now play in a way where I know people are either going to get what I am saying, or they are not. The ones that don't I am going to try and learn how to use subliminal messaging to get them to understand what I am saying.

Story sounds great, but I actually don't care to read it, because I can't see how it can be that relevant to this game. Although Mafia is a complex game, the fundamental idea of the game is very simple, and honestly what is the point of that story?

I'm sure you're a creative genius, but honestly when you mention "Subliminal messaging" I couldn't help but snort with laughter. The only Subliminal messages you are sending to me with this post is that you think we're too stupid to understand your reads, which is why you couldn't possibly even consider explaining them.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I will unvote once you explain in DEPTH (two pages of A4 handwritten (thats four sides)) of

why you had a townread on ConnorJC post #30

(waay back)

[Superhans]

Also I can't think of anything goofier than having a personality test outcome as my bio.

Spoiler:

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[Superhans]

Solid outside of the box analysis you have there Dr Freud.
UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety

Basically your read is just gut, then... hmmm.

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

[Superhans]

LicketyQuickety outside of the game, I am also depressed (to an extent) with whatever work I produce. I feel for you.

[Superhans]

Correct, Forceful, At Ease.

What do you mean by this. Can you be less cryptic please.

[Superhans]

@LQ next time you scum read please just say it's a gut feeling rather than "non-traditional" reads. Gut is actually very very traditional.

[Superhans]

@ConnorJC,
Why do you think Nacho is scum?

Also considering his vast experience, and how logical he has been (so far), do you think that if he were actually scum, we would have a chance of proving it, and lynching him?

[Superhans]

I'm reviewing LoveSick's ISO at the moment. I'm early into analyzing the posts, but as far as I can see LoveSick has defended TheDom a lot. I find this weird because TheDom has contributed very little, so I wonder why LoveSick would prop it up so much. This could be a response to getting hammered pretty hard as a lurker herself though.

I don't find it that surprising. Lovesick was very anti-lurk-lynching (just see how angry she is that we are picking on random lurkers)

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

[...]

Now i wont continue with the excuses as the bottom line is that it was very inconvenient of the time the game started and when the activity had spiked up. So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

However, if Lovesick continues to defend TheDominator, it could be a very legitimate scum read.

[Superhans]

@LicketyQuickety
Regarding posts: 363, 364, and 365.
In these posts we are looking at your Town read of ConnorJC, in post 30.

Lets talk about this shall we? Do you think someone coming on too strong is a Town tell that cannot be faked?

So you think that ConnorJC is "coming on too strong" and that this constitutes as a town read. What does 'coming on too strong' actually mean? Is it just because of how quickly ConnorJC scum read you in 27?

When a Player comes out swinging out of the game, the positive is ALWAYS a Town tell. The negative is much more subdued when faking it, therefore, coming on too strong is ALWAYS a Townie reaction at least if not a very reliable Town tell.

What do you mean "swinging out of the game" is this the same as "coming on too strong"? What do you mean by positive and negative can you elaborate your logic. If coming on too strong is always a townie tell then why would it not be very reliable, you contradict yourself within a sentence.

And Ofc you have to account for the said person coming on too strong and this can be done through analyzing word choice and narrative. So if you disagree with my assessment, provide your reasons and we can talk about it.

Why write 'ofc you have to account for the said [...] this can be done through analysing word choice' when you haven't even bothered to quote anything that Connor wrote, or comment on it.

WHICH

word do you personally find interesting and used to make your town read?
Also instead of writing "The said person coming on too strong" just write "ConnorJC coming on too strong", doing it this way is less confusing.

I find this comment the most worrying

What are your reasons to vote me LQ?

And there is a tiny thing that could make me Town read you more for this post. I am already given pause because of this post. I can explain the reason, but like a lot of times, people are not going to understand how that is valid logic because it is based on psychology and not facts.

Psychology is actually a science, and although it certainly isn't as black and white as a discipline such as maths, there is no way you can justify not explaining something because it is based on psychology.

[Superhans]

Solid outside of the box analysis you have there Dr Freud.
UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety

Basically your read is just gut, then... hmmm.

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

You found a contradiction in my play, good for you.

LicketyQuickety, just so you know, I would much prefer it if you did have some original ways to determine scum/town reads, it would make the town's job much easier. I guess I'm coming across so scathing here as I am disappointed and frustrated that your logic so far has just gut feeling. Everyone has gut feeling, and I think it is very valuable, but just please please please state it is gut feeling. If you genuinely analysed word choice, analysed tone etc please pull together the sentences you used to make this assessment and comment on what you find suspicious, what they mean from your standpoint as a player who looks at psychology.

[Superhans]

I'm getting Town reads on Toblerone based mainly because his content is transparent, and also seemingly pro-Town (although its too early in the game for this to be a reliable read).
By transparent I mean that he isn't cryptic like LQ, or waffling/off topic like Lovesick. I like that fact that he backed me up when I said I didn't understand half of what LQ is saying, and promoting clarity is what a town player would want to do.


The post that we may want to be addressing is 335:

I have to be honest, you guys (and gal) are losing me with all these arguments and hypothesis

What is interesting to me is that at least 3 people asked for my views, but when I gave them, no-one was interested in them - maybe because they were not analytical enough?

^@Toblerone, Apologies on behalf of all of us who may have neglected your analysis. Please re-post any of your views, or suggest any new scum/town reads that you may have.

[Superhans]

@Toblerone
What do you think about ConnorJC voting for Nacho and then unvoting before Nacho even had a chance to respond?
Is this town/scum/noob play?

406

[Superhans]

@ConnorJC,
Why do you think Nacho is scum?

Also considering his vast experience, and how logical he has been (so far), do you think that if he were actually scum, we would have a chance of proving it, and lynching him?

I don't think that anybody could get another player lynched right now, except maybe a really stupid quickhammer from both scum.

ConnorJC, can you answer my first question too,
Why do (or did you) think Nacho was scum?

[Superhans]

@Toblerone is English your first language?

[Superhans]

I think ConnorJC voting then inviting is noob town play and that Conjor lacked the patience for Nacho to join us.

[Superhans]

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.

Where is everyone getting this LQ's reads are 100% gut reaction thing from? His posts can be confusing though, I wish he'd clarify - as his reasoning appears to be good, just his way of saying it is bad.

Read posts 350, 351 and 355. Throughout the game LQ has stated he uses original techniques to derive his reads, I called him out and asked him to actually attempt to explain what these techniques were – LQ was unable to do so, as he basically is just making gut reads.
Is this Scum play? In my opinion, not necessarily. Just looking at LQ’s bio reveals that he thinks he’s creative, and I doubt LQ actually realises that a hazy amateur “Guess-estimation” of someone’s alignment based on skimming through their posts doesn’t count as a psychological analysis.

[Superhans]

My Town read on Toblerone hasn’t changed, although I disagree with lots of his reads in post 432.
I agree with Toblerone’s read on TheDominator, I think everyone agree Dom is scummy so this isn’t original in any way.
I agree with Toblerone that LicketyQuickety is very difficult to play with, but I like LicketyQuickety’s display of logic in post 447.

As my first action, the cop is

going

to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

So you're saying you would want a cop to come out day 2 and tell the mafia who they are?
Doesn't seem like town play to me

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

He says "So you're saying" and follows that up with an assumption on the motive of my play.

He is coming on strong here because there is an incredible amount of intent behind him saying this.

He is basically saying "I just caught you trying to out the Cop!" but he says it in a way that shows how he got to that conclusion in an attempt to influence others to agree with his point.
He then makes a comment "Doesn't seem like a town play to me." This language used here is downplayed showing he is so secure in his statement that he doesn't feel the need to butter it up and that the statement speaks for itself.
Then he votes me thinking there is no more explanation needed.
[...]

^ Like this very articulate explanation, if you (LQ) could keep up explanations that are this simple I would be much more inclined to trust you.

I agree with you that Rautherdir’s reasoning was patchy, but then so was LicketyQuickety’s reasoning for voting Rautherdir.
I’m finding it difficult to read Nacho because of how confident he is, and also being IC he is taking such a leading role that there aren’t really any Scum reads, yet. I find the idea that Nacho may be Scum very very unsettling as being such an experienced player I’d imagine it would be very difficult to realise it.
Need more content from FancyPants.
Getting a slight town read from Lovesick but agree with Toblerone that we need more stuff less fluff from her.

[Superhans]

I feel that ConnorJC fighting Lovesick on the theory that Lovesick and TheDominator could both be mafia is kinda far-fetched. Not saying that they couldn't but I think ConnorJC is over-reading Lovesick defending Dom.
ConnorJC in post 413 Lovesick denounces TheDominator.

I've got a gut feel that your fighting is TvT.

[Superhans]

Cos it could easily bet TvS or SvS

[Superhans]

Dude I understand that your play involves loosely explaining yourself, sure. My real problem was that a lot of the time I don't understand you or that following your logic is very difficult.

As you and Lovesick have identified I can't change how you play, so I'll have to put up with it to an extent. I didn't think a reply to your retort was that necessary.

[Superhans]

@connorJC both of you.

[Superhans]

LQ ur seriously thick. (ill be posting quality shit in a minute)

I do like your music choice though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQOG5BkY2Bc

[Superhans]

Wb Fancypants.

Response to 465

Superhans, What is your read on Rautherdir. Rautherdir, what is your read on Superhans?

I have a gut feeling that these two could be Scum together. Their interaction with each other is far too polite for my liking and generally doesn't lead anywhere.

I'm reading scum on Rautherdir, but not because of your vote on him - the logic you say you're using sucks.

LQ, why did you vote Rautherdir in post 130? Can you elaborate upon post 323?

My scum read is because of the quantity and quality of Rauth's content. Rauth's post 233 got me all pumped up (I would have been delighted if LQ was scum) but it was a fairly terrible read: 298. When LQ accuses Rauth and I of buddying Rauth's response is flavourless; this is the problem I find with all of his posts, they are too two dimensional and don't really add that much to the conversation. A few pages ago FancyPants delivered a complete breakdown of the entire game so far which concluded with a Rautherdir vote and so far Rauth hasn't actually fought back.

Rautherdir (like pop singer Adele) is very middle of the road. The most common emotion (or state of mind) expressed by him is confusion.

I'm not entirely sure, okay? I'm not really sure about anyone right now. Except about Dominator being a lurker.

@Rautherdir, you still on the fence? Who are your reads now?

I guess so. It would help if I wasn't absolutely confused as to what you've been doing.

Everyone is equally confused as you, we are all noobs. Make judgements that revolve upon

logic

, even noob logic is okay, I mean it'd be difficult to get much worse than LQ.

Not gonna vote Rautherdir quite yet, as its still D1 and we've got lots of time.

Scum reads:

Rauth or/and TheDominator

So what I get from the past few posts is that LQ votes based on his gut and not specific reasons. Which would make it extremely difficult for him to answer my question.

UNVOTE:

I still don't know for sure if you're town, LQ, but I noticed something a bit more disconcerting.

VOTE: TheDominator37

Somehow you've gotten away with three posts, two of which were votes. One of those votes was an RVS self-vote, and the other was an unexplained vote for Superhans. An explanation would be more than appropriate.

This post makes it seem far less likely (but not implausible) that Rauth and TheDominator are a team.

For the same reason I scum read Rauth, Lovesick gets a scum read from me. Judgement is on the fence, and your reasoning is short. I'll go into more depth into my Lovesick read next post.

I've still got a gut (just because I know how screwed we would be if he weren't town) scum read on Nacho.
I'm going to revoke my town read on Toblerone, and update our relationship status to "It's complicated".
Town reading Fancypants,

Moron

Town read on LQ,

@ConnorJC, If you could kill

THREE

people right now (woo hoo) who would they be?

[Superhans]

My read on Lovesick, Toblerone and LQ has changed from my reads in posts 453 and 420.

[Superhans]

482 483 484

I am not familiar with that term

I am also a power player. Are you getting closer to understanding yet?

^

[Superhans]

@LicketyQuickety
This is D1, anyone could be scum, however, much you

want to suck them off

idolise them.

I have a Town read on Nacho, for really no reason at all.

Also,

@NachoMomma8,

I'd like you to critique my game after this game is over. It would be amazing to here what I have done horribly wrong in this game.

[Superhans]

@Lovesick
To get a reaction.

[Superhans]

Also I don't want to be

that

kid, but LicketyQuickety did provoke me first in post 606. This is a Newbie game, and LQ could have addressed what he identified as noob play in a more constructive manner.

[Superhans]

^ Taking that back, I started it,

I apologise LQ.

[Superhans]

I should have played more constructively, and insulting you is certainly not a good way to provoke a reaction. It is harming town play, and I take 100% responsibility for causing the conversation to descend into insults.

[Superhans]

I guess I'm trying to play as abrasively as possible to trigger honest reactions, but i clearly overstepped the line when calling you a moron.

[Superhans]

@LQ What is your read on Lovesick?

[Superhans]

It's because this was all of his reads. What he said was basically just a rehash of what other people had already said. This could be because he's new, or because he's scum that's way too careful.

I also posted about Lovesick in a later post. As I said previously, every time I think something about a player or a post it seems that pretty soon after someone else has already echoed my thoughts in the thread. So I can either (a) post nothing and not contribute or (b) post my thoughts even if this means repeating what other people have already said. However, this is not "rehashing" as you put it - just because my views are the same as others does not mean I am copying them. There can only be a certain few viewpoints on people and posts and with 9 players there are bound to be people who have the same viewpoint

Its absolutely fine to share viewpoints with other players and if you agree with a theory that has already been stated, reinstating it (not rehashing, for instance you can say, 'I agree with the theory first proposed by player x etc etc',) adds weight to the theory, or at the very least, makes you easier to read.

[Superhans]

@LQ What is your read on Lovesick?

She is Town.

Is this because of her emotional reaction to post 113 or do you have any newer reads?

[Superhans]

@LQ
Naturally.
I was just saying to Toblerone, that his ideas don't need to be 100% original, especially if he is intimidated from posting for this reason.

[Superhans]

@LQ
Can you also answer my questions in 604 about

why

you think Rautherdir is scum. Please elaborate in great great detail and include newer posts made by Rautherdir after you first made your vote.

A detailed post would be very helpful to me.

[Superhans]

I'll give you a new reason though.

Their case on me that I am Scum was completely lackluster. This is because Scum have a much harder time fabricating a Scum read (or reads in general). To compound on this, they later said they don't have any strong reads. So then, why the strong push on me in the first place? I mean, they linked a lot of my posts and tried to use those as evidence for why I am Scum, but guess what? No one really bought those reasons. I would be a wagon right now if that post was legit.

TL;DR they are faking their reads.

^very very good point.
Rautherdir has some serious explaining to do.

[Superhans]

There were two reasons I voted LQ. One was post 6. The other was his failure to produce a reason for his vote on me.

He just did produce a sick reason for voting for you, as have I in post 604.

Post 6 was a very very very weak reason indeed. Why include 14 points if all bar one is valid?
Also which scenario out of the 4 here:

There are four different situations with the upcoming Rautherdir vs LicketyQuickety fight.

1) R is scum, trying to appear town-ish by using potentially broken logic to trick the town into lynching LQ.
2) R is town and LQ is scum and the logic he is working with is valid.
3) R is town and LQ is town (most likely), the argument will hopefully yield good content though.
4) Both R and LQ are mafia trying a really cliche technique of pretending to fight each other to gain town trust.

I personally think number 3 is most likely, and number 4 least likely, but wouldn't be surpised if 1/2 is the case.

We'll have to wait for Rautherdir to return before properly making an evaluations.

Do you think is the case and why?

[Superhans]

Also can you try and put a little more passion into your responses. If you were a food you would be tofu, or slimy cold unseasoned noodles that have been overcooked.

Where's the ENERGY man!

[Superhans]

@ConnorJC, If you could kill

THREE

people right now (woo hoo) who would they be?

There's only two scum. Anyways, it would be Rautherdir first, then TheDom. Third would likely be based on whether I hit 0, 1, or 2 mafia with those kills, unless I had to submit them all at once, in which case my third would probably be LoveSick.

Are your scum-reads on Lovesick based on her defending TheDominator (as you accused her of in 400) or do you have additional/ more gut based reads?

[Superhans]

Is it scummy to fabricate terrible scum reads?

[Superhans]

@Rautherdir
If you think TheDom is one of the scum who is the other scum?

[Superhans]

VOTE: Rautherdir

[Superhans]

There were two reasons I voted LQ. One was post 6. The other was his failure to produce a reason for his vote on me.

He just did produce a sick reason for voting for you, as have I in post 604.

Post 6 was a very very very weak reason indeed. Why include 14 points if all bar one is valid?
Also which scenario out of the 4 here:

There are four different situations with the upcoming Rautherdir vs LicketyQuickety fight.

1) R is scum, trying to appear town-ish by using potentially broken logic to trick the town into lynching LQ.
2) R is town and LQ is scum and the logic he is working with is valid.
3) R is town and LQ is town (most likely), the argument will hopefully yield good content though.
4) Both R and LQ are mafia trying a really cliche technique of pretending to fight each other to gain town trust.

I personally think number 3 is most likely, and number 4 least likely, but wouldn't be surpised if 1/2 is the case.

We'll have to wait for Rautherdir to return before properly making an evaluations.

Do you think is the case and why?

Okay, to be perfectly honest? My vote was to get him to give me a reason for voting me in the first place. After I saw that was going nowhere I put my vote on TheDom who I am almost certain at this point is scum. Out of those,

probably 3.

I'm coming to the conclusion that post 6 was just an RVS thing.

Right now, I'm

going to say LQ or ConnorJC

. LQ because he's been defending TheDominator quite a bit. If TheDominator ends up town then I would guess LQ is town as well. Connor because he's floating between any popular wagon right now.

Why say you think it is case 3, TvT, then instantly accuse LQ?

[Superhans]

There were two reasons I voted LQ. One was post 6. The other was his failure to produce a reason for his vote on me.

He just did produce a sick reason for voting for you, as have I in post 604.

Post 6 was a very very very weak reason indeed. Why include 14 points if all bar one is valid?
Also which scenario out of the 4 here:

There are four different situations with the upcoming Rautherdir vs LicketyQuickety fight.

1) R is scum, trying to appear town-ish by using potentially broken logic to trick the town into lynching LQ.
2) R is town and LQ is scum and the logic he is working with is valid.
3) R is town and LQ is town (most likely), the argument will hopefully yield good content though.
4) Both R and LQ are mafia trying a really cliche technique of pretending to fight each other to gain town trust.

I personally think number 3 is most likely, and number 4 least likely, but wouldn't be surpised if 1/2 is the case.

We'll have to wait for Rautherdir to return before properly making an evaluations.

Do you think is the case and why?

Okay, to be perfectly honest? My vote was to get him to give me a reason for voting me in the first place. After I saw that was going nowhere I put my vote on TheDom who I am almost certain at this point is scum. Out of those,

probably 3.

I'm coming to the conclusion that post 6 was just an RVS thing.

Right now, I'm

going to say LQ or ConnorJC

. LQ because he's been defending TheDominator quite a bit. If TheDominator ends up town then I would guess LQ is town as well. Connor because he's floating between any popular wagon right now.

Why say you think it is case 3, TvT, then instantly accuse LQ?

3 if TheDom is town. 2 if TheDom is scum.

? You're not making logical sense.

Okay, to be perfectly honest? My vote was to get him to give me a reason for voting me in the first place. After I saw that was going nowhere I put my vote on TheDom who I am almost certain at this point is scum. Out of those, probably 3. I'm coming to the conclusion that post 6 was just an RVS thing.

You are voting on TheDom already, and say that you are "almost certain" you are right.

[Superhans]

@LQ can you dumb what you're saying down a bit for me.

[Superhans]

Okay. I'm wondering in case I get quickhammered. Actually, if anyone quickhammers me before I can claim, policy-lynch them please.

PEdit. No. There's a reason I was suspicious of post 6.

Then why say otherwise in post 645

[Superhans]

[...]
Okay, to be perfectly honest? My vote was to get him to give me a reason for voting me in the first place. After I saw that was going nowhere I put my vote on TheDom who I am almost certain at this point is scum. Out of those, probably 3. I'm coming to the conclusion that post 6 was just an RVS thing.

To be perfectly honest... ?
You're flip flopping more than US Presidential candidates.

[Superhans]

@Rautherdir what is your read on Lovesick?

[Superhans]

@Rautherdir, who do you think is scum (excepting lurkers) and why?

Alright, in order of most scummy to most towny:

TheDominator. I know you said excepting lurkers, but this goes beyond lurking.
LicketyQuickety. Rolefishing in 6. I still don't like that.
ConnorJC. Going with the popular vote most all of the time.
Superhans. Just not enough town action
Lovesick. It felt like genuine emotion when she was defending herself. However, her lack of attacks on other players could have put her higher in this list.
Nachomamma8. Would have been most town on this list if I saw more recent content
FancyPants. You immediately set about scum-hunting after getting back on.

Your Dominator read is very safe, everyone bar LQ agrees with you.
You are flip flopping like crazy on your LQ read.
ConnorJC is at least contributing judgement, and more original ideas than you.
Lovesick read isn't original, pointed out by LQ.
Nachomamma8's town read isn't explained... I have some more recent content, does that make more the most town in your books?
FancyPants just voted against you and you haven't properly addressed his attack.

[Superhans]

@Lovesick
In response to post 672
In my opinion none of the votes/unvotes are flaky.
Post 18 & 20 were jokes during the early game.
Post 100 explains itself.
Post 246 is me excited for reads.
Post 350 is me trying to bait LQ.
Post 355 illustrates that it wasn't a serious vote.

Original means a read that is not a rehash, or a development of someone elses read.

[Superhans]

Lovesick read isn't original, pointed out by LQ.

I don't think I actually pointed out that R's lovesick read wasn't original, but thanks anyways.

P-Edit: I got a hankering feeling that FP is Scum. Its is kinda sorta gut though.

I meant that the read that Lovesick is town because of her emotional reaction was first pointed out by you, and hence it isn't like Rautherdir's read is original at all.

[Superhans]

@Lovesick,

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

I particularly don't think anyone is leaning town or mafia as of right now, however there are certain parts of people's playstyles which make me wary/cautious of them
[...]
Rautherdir - Justifying actions of others through Nacho's words and playstyle which I think is never justifiable as it is a preferred playstyle rather than something which should be followed.
[...]

What do you mean by this read?

[Superhans]

@Rautherdir
please answer my question in:
668
"What is your read on Lovesick?"

Can you elaborate upon "Lovesick. It felt like genuine emotion when she was defending herself. However, her lack of attacks on other players could have put her higher in this list." from post 609 or is this your only insight?

[Superhans]

@Lovesick,

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

I particularly don't think anyone is leaning town or mafia as of right now, however there are certain parts of people's playstyles which make me wary/cautious of them
[...]
Rautherdir - Justifying actions of others through Nacho's words and playstyle which I think is never justifiable as it is a preferred playstyle rather than something which should be followed.
[...]

What do you mean by this read?

That Nacho had said something about a certain playstyle and his preference and Rauth quoted his response to a pointi was making against you or connor, justifying yours or connor's actions because of Nacho's preferred way of playing

Your last read on Rautherdir was made >400 posts ago, do you have an updated read on Rautherdir? Noob/Town/Scum?

[Superhans]

I'm not scum though.

UNVOTE: Rautherdir

K

[Superhans]

i'm confused about how scummy Rautherdir is, after post 651 I was convinced that Rautherdir had slipped up and had revealed himself as scum. (Explanation in my post 660. However, this could just be a genuine noob slip up.

Rautherdir if you make some aggressive town scum reads, specifically fat reads on players such as Lovesick (any player would do though) I would be far more inclined to trust you.

[Superhans]

@Nachomma8
You have made reads throughout the game in individual posts. Would you mind doing what FancyPants did in post 562?
I understand if it is too much effort, and if you're too lazy to whip up a quick list, but it would really help a player like me, get a sense of what everyone else is thinking.

[Superhans]

(Explanation in my post 660.

You thought he was scum because he contradicted himself?

In conjunction with my scum reads in 604 and how low quality Rautherdir's posts were.

F

i

x

e

d

b

r

o

k

e

n

p

o

s

t

t

a

g

.

-

-

P

[Superhans]

@Lovesick
In post 686 I offer explanations to your argument in post 672. In 692 I get the impression that you didn't care for my explanation:

@Lovesick
In response to post 672
In my opinion none of the votes/unvotes are flaky.
Post 18 & 20 were jokes during the early game.
Post 100 explains itself.
Post 246 is me excited for reads.
Post 350 is me trying to bait LQ.
Post 355 illustrates that it wasn't a serious vote.
Original means a read that is not a rehash, or a development of someone elses read.

I dont need an explanation for them. I was providing evidence for my claims.

Lovesick are you saying you would rather I didn't respond, if not this, then what did you mean when saying "I don't need an explanation"? Also surely if your evidence can stand on its own two feet you would welcome any attempts to challenge it from me. You say that:

i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

So why didn't you welcome post 686?

[...]
@FancyPants
Here's some earlier posts of Superhans where he acted flaky/indecisive and retreating on some of his claims. There's also somewhere among the quotations where Superhans tells me (I believe) to go get 'original' scum reads or something along those lines and he continues to tell players throughout the game to get original reads/posts which may be why players like Tob and Rauth hold back from speaking as things which they have thought or have an opinion about been spoke. I might be speculating way too far in this but yeah.
[...]

I distinguish between what is original and what is re-hashing in post 626. I think it is fine to re-instate a view which isn't your own, as long as you give credit, or it is relatively clear that you didn't create the view.

I know how to play however i stand by my point of not wanting to shift it the reason being there is not enough information or evidence which throws my scum radars off the face of Earth. I'm not someone who likes to follow or throw blame on someone else blindly without any form of evident supporting it as it's a risky move which could cost the game even if the ratio is 2:7

I would either kill Denominator for his constant absence from the game or Superhans because I don't like his flaky behaviour, it's way too careful almost as if trying to grasp attention but trying not to put himself in the spotlight which personally seems to me pretty scummy

I remember you talking about Superhan's behaviour before, can you summarise for me what about it you find scummy?

It is way too flaky, it's almost as if he can't make his mind up on one thing. He tries to pursue after a player but easily backs away as if to not be read by others, to not be put into the centre of attention and eventually put on the spot by others which I find that kind of play usually done by scum hence me not being convinced that he is a townie

Right now, do I throw your "scum radars off the face of Earth" or have you changed your gameplay to be more aggressive?
As you've clearly changed the standard of evidence you need to make reads, and the game has developed significantly since 132 where you say that at the time very was only enough evidence to cast one read.
Content has increased six fold, so you should be able to make a read on everybody.

Players You Haven't Made Reads On

These players you haven't made a read on at all. Now I think would be a good time.
1) Toblerone
2) LicketyQuickety
3) FancyPants
4) Nacho (You say that you have ill feelings about him in post 132 but then get annoyed at me I say you think he is sketchy, post 157.)
Also can you remember to answer my question in post 700 where I ask you to update your read on Rautherdir.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAV0dskgHCc[/youtube]
^Any fellow DnB heads?

[Superhans]

@Toblerone,
The language question was because I noticed you used loads of exclamation marks! I find that this is often the case (in my experience at least) with people who speak English as a second language.

[Superhans]

@Toblerone many apologies for not noticing that Rautherdir was missing a read on you.

I would also like to hear Rautherdir's answer to your post 743.
A question I don't think anyone has asked Rautherdir is what does he mean by hints?

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something

I've left out and hinted at a few times.

Rautherdir's ISO isn't exactly Shakespeare's Anthology is it?
I'm sure if we put our minds to it we could come up with a theory at least of what hints he is talking about.

@Rautherdir:
What are these hints?

[Superhans]

@Toblerone if Lovesick turns out to be Mafia (e.g she snaps under the weight of the guilt and reveals herself) who would you suspect is the second Mafia?

This is a hypothetical situation, so you may think it is kinda silly, but please humour me.

[Superhans]

@Toblerone also in response to your question how are my reads different to your reads (in post 549).
I disagree with some of the reads in 432, but mainly because of my gut reaction, not necessarily because I disagree with your logic. I think you've demonstrated some fairly solid logic.

Please re-post any of your views, or suggest any new scum/town reads that you may have.

Anyway, here are my thoughts and most are pure gut feelings. You are obviously all experience Mafia players which I am not but I will do my best:

TheDominator37

- a total of 4 posts since the start of the game! Just seems to be doing enough to not get prodded. The frustrating thing is that it

has

been online but has totally ignored the game. Either a lazy irresponsible town or a very shy scum

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.

Nachomamma8

- my gut reaction here is town. He seems to be questioning people in a sensible manner and trying to get clarification from them on things. Ok I am inexperienced but that seems to me to be the way to go about things.

ConnorJC

- this is one that I have a strong scum feel for. Mainly gut feel but there were a couple of things such as when LQ said he was agreeing with him a lot and he quickly defended himself. Also I keep going back to him answering questions on behalf of others

Rautherdir

- no strong read. One thing I liked was that when he voted LQ and said he would come back with a variety of reasons. And he did - he had clearly analysed LQ's posts

Lovesick

- still leaning town but would like to see more scumhunting and less fluff

FancyPants

- definitely leaning scum. So little content posted (I know he said he would not be very active at the weekend but still very little on Friday). Of all the possible questions he could ask and all the content he could comment on, he just wanted to know who I would kill and why Connor thought Dom was scum!

Superhans

- no real suspicions here. Generally town feel

I agree with your Dom Read,
I agree with your logic that LQ is sometimes difficult to understand, although my opinion on LQ changes, as admist lots of his confusing posts, he often posts a really original and insightful read, that really helps town play. I'm now 90% sure LQ is town.
No clue about Nacho. I find him unsettling, but he is clearly playing pro-Town so far.
I have a slight (very slight) scum read on ConnorJC. Similar reasons to you.
Rautherdir, I also don't know about this, but it seems that if Nacho's logic is sound and everyone agrees with it, I was wrong about him. At the time of your post, I agreed with your read.
Lovesick I agreed at the time, now I'm really not so sure, especially since Rautherdir is less likely to be scum.

[Superhans]

I think Fancypants is town based on his pro-town play.

[Superhans]

@Toblerone this is also my first game...

I have struggled to follow game theory involving speculating Rautherdir's power role claim.

[Superhans]

@Rautherdir I have read your ISO and believe I understand your hints. very very subtle, and took me quite a while... your secret is safe with me.

[Superhans]

If a player produces lots of original ideas that is a town read. Not producing original ideas can be a scum read, because scum players struggle to produce their own (good quality) reads, as they are based on something the scum player knows isn't true.

You haven't contributed enough imho, my post wasn't a defensive post, it was more of a nascent scum read on you.

[...]

Players You Haven't Made Reads On

These players you haven't made a read on at all. Now I think would be a good time.
1) Toblerone
2) LicketyQuickety
3) FancyPants
4) Nacho (You say that you have ill feelings about him in post 132 but then get annoyed at me I say you think he is sketchy, post 157.)

(Anyone know who to embed Youtube videos, I was gonna embed High Contrast's Lovesick, an absolute banger.

Answer these.

[Superhans]

^ post above is directed at Lovesick

[Superhans]

So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for
[...]

Nacho, we've kinda moved on from discussing the Lovesick Wagon, as it wasn't really that fruitful.

This post doesn't really sit well. Almost halting town discussion.

@TheDominator,
sooo glad you're contributing
What you've done so far has erased a lot of my scum read on you so far, although obviously you've gotta lot of catching up

I wanted to move the conversation away from the Lovesick wagon as a lot of her posts weren't constructive, and I thought that a topic change would actually be healthy for town discussion.

[Superhans]

@Dom can you answer my question from 127,
"can you explain why you voted for me?"

What do you mean by pressure vote? Can you elaborate.
What results did this pressure vote yield, e.g. any reads as a result?

[Superhans]

Omg

lovestick

its the dominator not denominator

That was deliberate right...

[Superhans]

Dom no one cares about ur self vote early game.
Nacho's reasons are in the post you quoted.
To prove Nacho you need to make contributions on what you think of the game so far.

Also I disagree that ur self vote had more people talking about it than #6, but it is kinda irrelevant.

[Superhans]

Dom no one cares about ur self vote early game.
Nacho's reasons are in the post you quoted.
To prove Nacho

wrong

you need to make contributions on what you think of the game so far.

Also I disagree that ur self vote had more people talking about it than #6, but it is kinda irrelevant.

EBWOP

[Superhans]

I think in terms of posts and in terms of reading my playstyle, emotions; opinions on matters it has been enough. Your post trying to counteract what I had said - which was purely speculation and observation - is trying to defend yourself along with trying to make it seem like I automatically feel that you are scum only because I dont like the way you have been behaving. Just to prove your flakiness, the situation wih dominator is a prime example. He hadn't responded throughout the game and you were pushing him towards scum now that he has made posts which are literally of him agreeing with things, asking questions and putting some input into old conversations he is suddenly now town for you. I think you've proven my own point here but that may just be me

Why are you misrepresenting me, I never said TheDominator was town, I said he was far less scum and my opinion of him would only improve as he continued contributing. You think it is town play to put words into my mouth?

Also can you hurry up a bit on those reads.

@TheDominator,
I can think of at least one good use of a solid chocolate teapot

[Superhans]

@TheDominator
You believe that at this point in the game Nacho is the most likely to be scum.

Do you agree with his logic that Rautherdir is most likely to be a noob based on the fact noobs never fakeclaim in Rautherdir's situation.

Fakeclaiming is a skill that most newbies haven't quite learned until they've played a few games, which means they're typically too conservative with fakeclaiming as opposed to too aggressive. Fakeclaiming a PR early as scum in this setup is suicidal, meaning that an experienced player wouldn't advise them to fakeclaim prematurely. Truthfully claiming prematurely as town is a pretty frequent phenomenon; you have a role, you have no idea when and if you're supposed to out it, you don't want to get lynched without claiming it.

Your argument that scum and town both out early is not a good one; scum and town deal with pressure in different ways in this particular situation. Scum typically try other tactics (lurking out pressure, AtEing, OMGUSing) before resorting to claiming their role while town who misjudges momentum tends to claim their role pretty quickly.

There was very clear pressure on R and that can scare Scum and Town into premature claiming in a newbie game.

Find me one newbie game where scum prematurely claimed PR.

Nacho seems exceedingly convinced that scum has never prematurely claimed PR in a newbie game... Being an experienced player yourself, do you think that Nacho is relying on us to not actually go looking through Newbie games to try and find examples as it would be a very tedious and time consuming process, or do you think that in this case Nacho is making a valid point, even though you may still think that overall he is scum?

[Superhans]

*I meant town not noob, sorry Rautherdir :z

[Superhans]

Hello Everybody!

LicketyQuickety, what do you mean by IC? You're an experienced ayer right, meant to help us noobs? Are can ICs be assigned as mafia?

Sorry for these very basic questions but it would be even stupider of me not to.ask.

The IC is a player assigned to a game with the responsibility of teaching new players how mafia works and helping them understand theory. Yes, ICs can be assigned as mafia, and

they are still supposed to play to their win condition

.

ICs are

required

to not lie about theory and give correct answers to theory questions. What Lickety is saying is that he often disagrees with the community on the "right" action to take (Preferring to think out of the box), and therefore is queuing as an SE (An experienced player in a newbie game without strict requirements) so he's free to play as he sees fit.

Connor makes a very relevant point, that being an IC Nacho would technically be unable to lie about game theory, i.e he couldn't say newb scum never fakeclaim, if actually they often do fake claim.

On the otherhand, ConnorJC may have go this wrong, and it is possible Nacho our IC is actually in a position where he is allowed to deceive us. I'm sure this is something that Nacho will be happy to clarify when he returns after Christmas.

[Superhans]

@Nacho
How many Newb games have you personally participated in or spectated?

[Superhans]

@Nacho
Are ICs who are scum

allowed

to lie about game theory in order to increase their likelihood of winning?

[Superhans]

@LQ
Bby I love the pressure you're applying to Nachomamma, but I'm not entirely convinced with your Town read early game because you thought theDominator was using his abscence as a way to get reactions. I think if TheDominator gets a townread, it'll have to be by playing pro-town far harder.

[Superhans]

Connor makes a very relevant point, that being an IC Nacho would technically be unable to lie about game theory, i.e he couldn't say newb scum never fakeclaim, if actually they often do fake claim.

I will never lie about a game theory question.

The question you're talking about in particular (do newb scum fakeclaim?) is one that I could lie about being that it's based on personal experience as opposed to theory (I also hope you realize my read is more nuanced than that!). Does that make sense?

Thanks for the transparency. Ironically I find you revealing that you have no inclination to tell the truth about whether or not you truly believe fakeclaiming in a newb game to be a town read, to be reassuring. I guess the most obvious scum answer to that question would be ambiguous and designed to confuse.

Why would you challenge us to search through newb games to try and find a scenario that would apply to this game, surely you must have known that there is no way anyone here would actually do that.

[Superhans]

Question addressed to both LQ and TheDominator.

You're both voting for Nacho (on board a Nacho Wagon so to speak) but you are both basing your votes on completely separate lines of logic.

What do you think of each other's line of logic? LQ do you agree with Dom's reasoning, Dom do you agree with LQs reasoning?

[Superhans]

41 Scum -

ConnorJC

61 Town -

LQ

88 Town -

ConnorJC

94 Neutral -

Lovesick

187 Town -

Superhans

214 Read on

Lovesick

295 Explaining town read on

ConnorJC

317 Town -

Superhans

560 Scum -

TheDenominator

idk if this will be that helpful, I started making it before 886.

[Superhans]

Question addressed to both LQ and TheDominator.

You're both voting for Nacho (on board a Nacho Wagon so to speak) but you are both basing your votes on completely separate lines of logic.

What do you think of each other's line of logic? LQ do you agree with Dom's reasoning, Dom do you agree with LQs reasoning?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend so yes

That seems like terrible logic imho.

[Superhans]

^not funny

[Superhans]

VOTE: TheDominator

[Superhans]

Don't rate these comments at all:
Oozing scum,
887 <- lazy and unconvincing
885 887 is even weirder after this post.

other stuff too; his reason for Rautherdir and I being scum together is LQs point from earlier in the game, post 846 he says Rautherdir may be scum - then moments later in 900 you say he is confirmed town. You're voting for Nacho, but in that case why support his case that Rautherdir is town?

+ Lots of other reasons i'll try to cover in due time.

[Superhans]

your main argument for voting Nacho is him misrepresenting connor, I don't actually know what you are specifically talking about. If this is what convinced you, why not interrogate Nacho about it?

[Superhans]

Not buying your accusation of Nacho tunneling, can you elaborate upon this or cite posts n stuff.

[Superhans]

Connor, why do you think that Dom is a bad line of pursuit? So far, the only contribution he's managed to make is attempting to take credit for starting the game, which doesn't really seem like a town mindset to me.

It seems like you are trying to discredit me and I don't know why

^lol whats so confusing? not exactly rocket science is it?

[Superhans]

ur either lazy and pure scum, or just pure scum pretending to be a lazy noob.

[Superhans]

@ConnorJC
What makes you think that LQ is scum buddying with Dominator? Is it just LQ not scum reading Dominator earlier in the game?

[Superhans]

@connorJC
No

[Superhans]

@LQ
No no no no no
We want to encourage people to put as much thought as they can mentally muster into their posts.

I like the quality of FPs reads, and it has really helped town.

[Superhans]

Quality is king.

@fancypants what is ur read on TheDominator?

[Superhans]

Scum hunt Lovesick when she next comes online.

Got gut scum read on her.

[Superhans]

My post 781 is challenging Lovesick's lack of any meaningful content, and although the first half of 781 is me defending myself, the post is mainly (for me at least) an attack on how Lovesick has been playing so far. It is a nascent scum read post. Lovesick then responds 810, without addressing the fact that she hasn't contributed. (She says 'I'll write reads and post them when i finish, but so far this hasn't happened).

I'm worried that without applying pressure, (I'm not going to apply pressure through voting, as I think Dominator is more scummy), Lovesick will be able to weasel her way out, by posting low substance reads.

Hopefully, if I can convince more players to apply pressure onto Lovesick, she'll be forced into being more open with what she is thinking, and not just get away with a half-ass response.

[Superhans]

She has no interactions / reads on half the players...

[Superhans]

Why did you say you are 90% sure I am Town?

90% == strong,
e.g in post 786 when I said I was 90% sure that you were town, and in the context of the post I was comparing my read with Toblerone's read:

@Toblerone also in response to your question how are my reads different to your reads (in post 549).
I disagree with some of the reads in 432, but mainly because of my gut reaction, not necessarily because I disagree with your logic. I think you've demonstrated some fairly solid logic.

Please re-post any of your views, or suggest any new scum/town reads that you may have.

Anyway, here are my thoughts and most are pure gut feelings. You are obviously all experience Mafia players which I am not but I will do my best:

TheDominator37

- a total of 4 posts since the start of the game! Just seems to be doing enough to not get prodded. The frustrating thing is that it

has

been online but has totally ignored the game. Either a lazy irresponsible town or a very shy scum

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.
[...]

[...]
I agree with your logic that LQ is sometimes difficult to understand, although my opinion on LQ changes, as admist lots of his confusing posts, he often posts a really original and insightful read, that really helps town play. I'm now 90% sure LQ is town.

[Superhans]

@LQ,
what? I can't use percentages to measure a gut feeling? What about 'I'm not 100% sure about this', or 'for me it's 50/50'? Pick what poison?

[Superhans]

90% is to either one, or two significant figures, perhaps I should have made it clearer:
90% (1sf) which means that in reality it isn't a precise read at all, it could be 85% - 95%

[Superhans]

She has no interactions / reads on half the players...

I just assume players like that get picked off really easily? IDK what I was thinking.

What is your occupation if you don't mind my asking.

Student.

[Superhans]

k ima gonna end the fluff with a few posts directed primarily at Lovesick.

[Superhans]

@Lovesick
Post 997.
You make some logical observations, that is good town play. I also disagree with some of your logic which is why lots of this post will be me nitpicking.

(Also not being IC)

What do you mean by this?

However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

Hmm? What about 933 where Nacho reads Toblerone, and then suggests he needs to develop his Connor read. What about post 932 which is even longer? Also can you explain what you mean by "As Superhans or reven Nacho himself feel the need to"?

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)

Have I linked myself to any players in your opinion?

SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts.

^Interesting assessment of my character, how would you describe the tone in your content? @all the other players, how would you describe the tone of Lovesick's content? The word i would use if I were trying to write a character assassination would be "Indignant" and "Overly sensitive". People have previously described your content as being angry.

There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

<- The reason I unvoted Rautherdir was because i began to question whether he was scum.

SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

I post 626 specifically to encourage Toblerone to share his viewpoints. @Toblerone, at any point have I made you shy to post?

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

This is a new read correct?

To make up for it's absence and eventually redeem it? The only link i can find is LQ when it comes to Dominator however I think this link was unintentional as it was a mutual agreement on a disagreement of Nacho's views and points.

Qhat do you mean by the only link I can find is LQ when it comes to Dominator, can you elaborate what you mean.

Your Vote on Me

1001 Indignation Station. You think my post is bullshit, I personally think post 1001 is bullshit. Your main reason for voting on me (or at least what it all boils down to), is me accusing you? My accusations are 100% justifiable in the context that until your recent read list, your posts have been terrible and it was completely within my rights to pressure you as hard as I can to coughing up some legitimate reads. I feel I have succeeded, you'll say that you would have provided those reads regardless of my pressure. maybe.

You state the purpose of my post is to divert attention onto you, yes that is obviously what I am doing. I even explain why I am doing that.

My post 781 is challenging Lovesick's lack of any meaningful content, and although the first half of 781 is me defending myself, the post is mainly (for me at least) an attack on how Lovesick has been playing so far. It is a nascent scum read post. Lovesick then responds 810, without addressing the fact that she hasn't contributed. (She says 'I'll write reads and post them when i finish, but so far this hasn't happened).

I'm worried that without applying pressure, (I'm not going to apply pressure through voting, as I think Dominator is more scummy), Lovesick will be able to weasel her way out, by posting low substance reads.

Hopefully, if I can convince more players to apply pressure onto Lovesick, she'll be forced into being more open with what she is thinking, and not just get away with a half-ass response.

Majority of this post is bullshit and you're simply trying to divert the attention of the players by trying to use a speculation which has no evidence behind it self other than a post where I said i had no clear reads on players other than dome thing which stuck out to me into pressuring me despite me addressing the fact that i need to post reads. As at the bottom you literally admit to trying to get players to pressure me on groundless speculations despite YOU yourself not posting much of a content filled read list

VOTE: SuperHans

Sorry if the vote doesn't work out^^ if it doesnt then could you @Plotinus fix it?

My 'evidence' wasn't a post of you saying you had no scum reads, it was the fact that you literally did not have scum reads.

@Lovesick
My final question to you is a fluffy question: Are you finding this game fun?

[Superhans]

UNVOTE:

You weren't voting anyone?

I was unvoting Lovesick.

When did you vote Lovesick?

[Superhans]

@FancyPants
Have you put out a bread crumb? If so, then I think I understand you a bit better.

[Superhans]

90% is to either one, or two significant figures, perhaps I should have made it clearer:
90% (1sf) which means that in reality it isn't a precise read at all, it could be 85% - 95%

But you can't come up with 90% without measures. That would be the same as saying 9/10. Do you have quantifiable evidence to say that I will be Town 9 times out of 10? You don't have that info because I have been Mafia 30.6% of my games. If we want to look only at Newbie games, I have been Town 5/8 times = 62.5% = 27.5% Scum.

So I ask that you share your math if you have it, otherwise it can't be used.

When you go the bookies to bet on whether Iceland will beat England in the 2016 Euros, and you place a bet of 19:1 you are basically saying that you are at least '5% sure' that Iceland will win. In the same way, I am ~90% sure that you are town, so if a third party observer said do you want to make a 1:9 bet on whether you are town, I would take it. Compris?

[Superhans]

Also I'm not making the estimation of 90% based on your track record, I'm basing it off the fact that there are players in this game right now that are in my opinion more likely to be scum. If I were in a game where you were scum (might be this game idk) then I would be less likely to town read you, or my town reads would be lower, and therefore my % estimation would reflect this.

[Superhans]

Readlist:

ConnorJC

Got some strong town reads on ConnorJC, mainly because his thought process is clear and I think his logic is genuine. Very active and his content isn’t fluff. Initially I was suspicious of ConnorJC, but this suspicion has faded. I like that ConnorJC has clear intent in his posts, i.e. he follows people who do not answer up, and then will engage with their responses. I also have an even stronger town read on you, as you have (or had in post 642) scum reads on all the players who I’m suspicious of right now.

LicketyQuickety

95.0000% (6sf) Town read on this guy. Play style is bloody annoying at times, but he has made some beautiful town play. I’m sorry I was such a dick to you earlier on

Toblerone

Town read. Read hasn’t changed from 420. Hope you get better soon.

gonna post more in a minute

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[Superhans]

fuck, why do tags hate me?

[Superhans]

UNVOTE:

You weren't voting anyone?

I was unvoting Lovesick.

When did you vote Lovesick?

It was implied.

What does that even mean?

The unvote is what was important here. I was thinking Lovesick was getting a little too bombarded with 3 people ganging up on them so I decided to unvote. If they were/ar town, that can be a nightmare. I know I've been there and I'm pretty sure you can see why.

What's your read on Lovesick?

[Superhans]

Nachomamma8

Seemingly Town. His gameplay has been as cool as a cucumber, perhaps this is why I find him so unsettling. His play has been pro-town, but being a player who has played 75 games of newb alone I wouldn't be surprised if this is an act. My fattest scum read right now is on Dominator, and Nacho has been ruthlessly nitpicked everything questionable Dom has said which makes me confident that if Dom is scum, Nacho isn't.
Question is really how reliable is your town read on Rautherdir. @Nachomamma, have you considered what Dominator says in 883 that adds plausibility that Rautherdir's PR claim was in fact a fakeclaim.

Rautherdir

Null. You've been playing in a very fishy way, but I think that Lovesick's analysis of you is likely to be accurate, that you've been fumbling over your words with the pressure put onto you. Hope you get better soon and that you've got pain meds that are enjoyable, not ones that just make you feel like crap.

FancyPants

Town read. So far has acknowledged multiple times that he hasn't had time to properly contribute, and its coming up to Christmas so I'm sympathetic. I believe Fancypants has breadcrumbed.

Lovesick

Keeping this one short. I have a slight scum read on you. You haven't had a chance to respond to my breakdown of your readlist (post 1020) and I don't want to choke you on content.

TheDominator

My biggest problem with TheDominator is that I don't believe his reads are genuine. His reads look like a player who has skimmed lazily through the game that he neglected and shoddily slapped together some unconvincing reads.
My ratinale has remained the same since post 929, 930 and 931, because TheDominator hasn't actually been that active these past two days.

Underlying Rationale of My Vote in 997:

1) I don't believe Dom's pursuit of Nacho was genuine. Accusation that Nacho tunneled him is unconvincing. Accusation that Nacho tried to manipulate other players into voting for you is even less convincing. Are you suggesting Nacho's post 568 is 'manipulation' ?

2) Dominator's point that Nacho misrepresented ConnorJC is also unconvincing. I don't actually know at what point Nacho did misrepresent Connor, but if it was an example of manipulation, why aren't you pressing Nacho hard on this point.

2) I'm not convinced that TheDominator believes Nachomamma is trying to discredit him. Even less convinced that theDominator believes Nacho was pushing for his lynching.

3) TheDominator suggests Rautherdir and I are scum then almost instantly contradicts himself. Dominator has yet to answer the question in 934 addressing this.

4) a) In post 887 Dominator uses the reasoning that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" basically saying that he agrees with LQ's scum reads on Nacho. However, he doesn't actually add to LQ's reads, and if he genuinely believes Nacho to be scum, and genuinely believes LQ's reads, surely he would push harder.
b) Following on from the previous point, LQ's scumcusation on Nacho was that he didn't buy Nachos town-read on Rautherdir. If Dominator actually did agree with LQ's logic, then why would he assume Rautherdir is telling the truth with his PR claim. The whole premise of LQs argument is that this isn't the case.

6) Process of elimination.

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[Superhans]

Lickety your 95% town post is really unhelpful (95% is just an strong town read from one player), Lovesick, your, I'm 100% town without a theory, is also unhelpful, you would want to write that irrespective of alignment.

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)

Have I linked myself to any players in your opinion?

I feel as though there is a hard case link with you and Dominator as he has been the player which you've wanted to hear so long from and question himself about things. However I'm not exactly sure if you have done so with other players other than the times where you are constantly nitpicking and questioning people.

I don't agree with this comment; I'm not sure what a "hard case link" is or the implications of me allegedly having one with Dom. I also disagree with your judgement that I haven't questioned him properly and spent my time nit-picking. I've made multiple scum reads on Dom, voted for him, and I'm waiting patiently for him to return and answer.

[Superhans]

Wait did we win?

[Superhans]

ohh just checked, we did win

well played everyone