Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Kaguya Houraisan]

This is also the reason I'm voting Kagerou here instead of any of you

I dunno why that would be the case when you have a mech argument on me and no argument on Kagerou.

What do you think about killing Kagerou here?

I'm listening.

I'm tired of drag-our-feet playing. It's gotten us absolutely nowhere effective. We are only not in crisis because either scum made a very cheeky delay gabit (low odds imo) or Aya just saved our sorry asses with a GREAT single-use role usage. (high odds, IMO) We need to rally and start massively upswinging the solve-mood in the air. I want everyone's cases, I want this to be a page of lol casewalls where everything just lays it all out.

It's mostly POE. We know there's an unclaimed (so scum) passive disable N2 on me. Kagerou has a sus shot on Tenshi. Kagerou had an unclaimed passive disable N1 that she only bothered to claim D3 when I said my passives got disabled on a night that she flavor copped an Ascetic claim over literally anyone else. I think Kagerou Burglarized me and is lying about it, and I don't see any reason for town Kagerou to lie about it but plenty of reason for scum Kagerou to flavor cop me when her only other target would be Marisa with the Remilia/Flandre claim or Daiyousei who I'm pretty sure already slipped in thread that they're Dai at that point

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Ugh, this phase feels like a repeat of d2 where I spend most of it mech solving only to realize at the end of it that it's not enough to solve the game and I have to put in effort into reading people

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-04-06 03:46:21)

Can people other than Kaguya and Yuuka start posting more regularly

[Kaguya Houraisan]

1. You can be scum for clown piece kill.
2. Dai can be scum for clown piece kill and didn’t actually die.
3. I can be scum because maybe I’m just honest to a fault or something. It’s poor play, but whatever.
4. Reisen is in a neighborhood? They can be scum it’s something to note.
5. Marisa can lie about the Dango.
6. Might as well just say Aya is definitely scum because the mod wouldn’t create the same passive twice given the standards you’re using. *_*
7. Kagerou cannot be scum because they claimed vig.

It’s a pet peave of mine when people create scenarios where each of them is equal when obviously they are very different and you and I know this, which just makes me wonder why you said it at all. But you know, people say things.

I was gonna claim some of my stuff but I’ll add I WAS in a hood. I don’t think that applies anymore with larva dead.

I have an ability to shut down a pt(I don’t think that’s very useful so I haven’t and won’t use it) did not target kaguya with this
A semi protective
And I can offset an action by a phase

I don’t really know how to use the last one and the second one is pretty specific to get any use out of, I don’t want to elaborate more than that on it.

What's a spellcard and what's an active, also what exactly do you mean by semi protective

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I’m sorry I suck.

Did you mention that you were in a hood with larvae day 2?

Also wait uh, Reisen / Larva had a hood? where

an S/S hood makes sense with my "join a hood" ability tbh

Also I was briefly in a neighborhood with larva last night, I assumed it was a lunarian thing since it had to do with the moon but Kaguya wasn’t there and I think kaguya is lunarian?

Stop ignoring me this game is too lore accurate ;_;

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Playerlist:

1. Tenshi Hinanawi -

   Tenshi Hinanawi
   
   
2. Aya Shameimaru -
   Aya Shameimaru
   • Wind Sign "Wind God's Fan" [Spellcard/Night] Deflector, resolves first
     
   • [Spellcard] Make all PTs found with PT Cop ability public
     
   • [Active/Night] PT Cop
     
   • [Passive] Invisible to action investigatives
3. Yuuka Kazami -
   Yuuka Kazami
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used N1 on Clownpiece
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Self-watch
     
   • [Passive] Notifies anyone visiting her that she's part of the scum team
4. Kaguya Houraisan -
   Wakasagihime
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Effects targetting me resolve as if Strongwilled, get 3 fish total when combined with singing
     
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Doctor a single person per two fish
     
   • [Active/Night] - Sing to get 1 fish (Resolves before my spellcards)
     
   • [Passive] - Invisible to action investigatives
     
   • [Passive] - In a hood with Daiyousei
5. Kagerou Imaizumi -
   Marisa Kirisame
   • Love Sign "Master Spark" [Spellcard/Night] Juggernaut, can't be recharged
     
   • Magic Sign "Stardust Reverie" [Spellcard] Enter a hood, if it's temporary make it permanent
     
   • Burglary [Active/Night] Flavor Cop with extra effects
     
   • [Passive] Mod Confirmed to be
     Marisa Kirisame
6. Koishi Komeiji -
   Youmu Konpaku
   • [Spellcard/Night] Change Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard target, both Koishi and new target are bulletproof for the night, informed if anyone attacked Koishi or new target
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard, target gets Strongwilled if Koishi dies at night
     
   • [Passive] Immune to Day Abilities, including vote multipliers
7. Eternity Larva -

   Seiran
   
   
8. Ichirin Kumoi -

   Medicine Melancholy
   
   
9. Daiyousei -
   Daiyousei
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used it to check Yuuka/Reisen/Koishi d1
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Redirect all actions targeting her to her target, if her target dies she dies
     
   • [Passive] Come back to life after dying
     
   • Misty Lake Resident [Passive] In a Hood with Kaguya Houraisan
10. Marisa Kirisame -
    Remilia Scarlet
    /
    Flandre Scarlet
    • [Spellcard] Unknown
      
    • [Spellcard] Unknown
      
    • [Active] Unknown
      
    • [Passive] Unknown
      
    • Scarlet Devil Mansion [Passive] You are in a neighborhood with Sanae Kochiya
11. Clownpiece -

    Toyosatomimi no Miko
    
    
12. Reisen Udongein Inaba - Unknown, Lunarian
    • [Spellcard] Semi-protective
      
    • [Spellcard] Offset an action by a phase
      
    • [Active] Shut down PT
      
    • [Passive] Ascetic
      
    • [Passive] In a neighborhood with Eternity Larva at night
13. Sanae Kochiya -

    Patchouli Knowledge

Known scum abilities:

• Spellcard Blocker - Used on Sanae N1
  
• Passive ability disabler - Used on Kagerou N1 and Kaguya N2

Updated

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Was why larva was the person performing the kill n1 get speculated on? I can’t recall seeing much about it but I am missing game chunks.

We don't know who did the N1 kill though? All that happened was that Aya redirected all actions from Koishi to Larva

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I need Kagerou to explain exactly how Burglary works

Cause it would be HYPER weird if it blocked for 2 straight phases (n1 and n2)

So I was informed I lost my Camera and cant use my active on n2

Oh so that's what my active does

yeah that's me hi

my active is burglary, i can steal an item from people, it's basically a flavor cop with undescribed side effects

oh yeah no, i disable actives

actually i had my passive disabled last day, that was the thing that i didn't wanna claim since like, it's not like it was changing anything and it could actually mess scum up a bit

How'd you come to the conclusion Burglary only disables actives?

that's what Aya reported happened and i don't see any world where she lies

of course it maybe could've had changing effects depending on who i targeted but that's not a theory i belive in too much, and it didn't cross my mind when choosing night actions

I don't think she has access to any more information than you do

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Okay in that case I need a Yuuka claim with N1 actions and a Reisen claim with n1 actions.

If you're POEing night actions I'll add that we're still missing pretty much everything from Marisa

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Frick the hurry up and wait, keep posting while this is happening on the side cause what's probably gonna happen is exactly the same thing the last few times this happened: The solve isn't perfect, people go back to using reads, and time gets wasted

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Birb what are your Thoughts^TM on this game

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Was why larva was the person performing the kill n1 get speculated on? I can’t recall seeing much about it but I am missing game chunks.

We don't know who did the N1 kill though? All that happened was that Aya redirected all actions from Koishi to Larva

I thought larva died because aya redirected wherever it came from?

I am the fucking best.

I redirected all abilities that targetted Koishi to Larva.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Speaking of prying stuff open with a crowbar, while I have you here Koishi what are your thoughts on this?

Yeah ok sorry Kaguya but i really don't get your proof by contradiction

It's simple: do you think stopping a scum kill on Aya/Koishi while in a hood with Clown would get me in the towncore? If yes then the numbers work out so that one person in the towncore survives til 3p ELO/4p MELO regardless of the results of Clownpiece's cop check

Not necessarily no?

The plan could also very well be for you to buy as much time as possible for the last mafia who is in a better position than you

Not necessarily no?

I don't believe you believe this

Like that'd be a level of paranoia that'd have you questioning the Aya redirect and you've been pretty content to leave the mech clear there

Also not a fan of the hedginess in tone there

Ok maybe this is just me being contrarian but i feel like scum explicitely shooting their own foot to mess with town is in everyone's thoughts enough for this plan to not stick you forever in the townsphere basically

it would give you most towncred than me / reisen / even marisa maybe i'll admit that much

Like that'd be a level of paranoia that'd have you questioning the Aya redirect and you've been pretty content to leave the mech clear there

Also not a fan of the hedginess in tone there

The difference with Aya is that it came at a point where the mafia is in no rush to do things

night 2 there were 3/4 pretty much conftown slots 1 dead scum and much more urgency to actually *do* things

Likewise i'm not a fan of you immediatly jumping on me while i'm still explaining my thoughts

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Maybe calling it tone isn't the right word, like if it was a hard no or a hard yes I probably wouldn't have a problem with it but the way the maybe was written felt like that kind of weasely "keeping my options open" deal that let's scum walk back from their words or commit later

[Kaguya Houraisan]

What I'm trying to say is...

the odds we have 2 town Ninjas and 2 town Watchers is 0%.

Before we get all excited: There's been plenty of "No way we have X" this game so can you lay down your exact logic here?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

They would totally do that. No joke.

Yeah that

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If the Watchers are both town, a ninja is scum.

If the ninjas are both town, a watcher is scum.

I'm conf town sooooo

Running that logic to the end: Do we have a reason to assume scum dont have a Ninja that they kept quiet about?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Playerlist:

1. Tenshi Hinanawi -

   Tenshi Hinanawi
   
   
2. Aya Shameimaru -
   Aya Shameimaru
   • Wind Sign "Wind God's Fan" [Spellcard/Night] Deflector, resolves first
     
   • [Spellcard] Make all PTs found with PT Cop ability public
     
   • [Active/Night] PT Cop
     
   • [Passive] Invisible to action investigatives
3. Yuuka Kazami -
   Yuuka Kazami
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used N1 on Clownpiece
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Self-watch
     
   • [Passive] Notifies anyone visiting her that she's part of the scum team
4. Kaguya Houraisan -
   Wakasagihime
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Effects targetting me resolve as if Strongwilled, get 3 fish total when combined with singing
     
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Doctor a single person per two fish
     
   • [Active/Night] - Sing to get 1 fish (Resolves before my spellcards)
     
   • [Passive] - Invisible to action investigatives
     
   • [Passive] - In a hood with Daiyousei
5. Kagerou Imaizumi -
   Marisa Kirisame
   • Love Sign "Master Spark" [Spellcard/Night] Juggernaut, can't be recharged
     
   • Magic Sign "Stardust Reverie" [Spellcard] Enter a hood, if it's temporary make it permanent
     
   • Burglary [Active/Night] Flavor Cop with extra effects
     
   • [Passive] Mod Confirmed to be
     Marisa Kirisame
6. Koishi Komeiji -
   Youmu Konpaku
   • [Spellcard/Night] Change Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard target, both Koishi and new target are bulletproof for the night, informed if anyone attacked Koishi or new target
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard, target gets Strongwilled if Koishi dies at night
     
   • [Passive] Immune to Day Abilities, including vote multipliers
7. Eternity Larva -

   Seiran
   
   
8. Ichirin Kumoi -

   Medicine Melancholy
   
   
9. Daiyousei -
   Daiyousei
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used it to check Yuuka/Reisen/Koishi d1
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Redirect all actions targeting her to her target, if her target dies she dies
     
   • [Passive] Come back to life after dying
     
   • Misty Lake Resident [Passive] In a Hood with Kaguya Houraisan
10. Marisa Kirisame -
    Remilia Scarlet
    /
    Flandre Scarlet
    • [Spellcard] Unknown
      
    • [Spellcard] Unknown
      
    • [Active] Unknown
      
    • [Passive] Unknown
      
    • Scarlet Devil Mansion [Passive] You are in a neighborhood with Sanae Kochiya
11. Clownpiece -

    Toyosatomimi no Miko
    
    
12. Reisen Udongein Inaba - Unknown, Lunarian
    • [Spellcard] Semi-protective
      
    • [Spellcard] Offset an action by a phase
      
    • [Active] Shut down PT
      
    • [Passive] Ascetic
      
    • [Passive] In a neighborhood with Eternity Larva at night
13. Sanae Kochiya -

    Patchouli Knowledge

Known scum abilities:

• Spellcard Blocker - Used on Sanae N1
  
• Passive ability disabler - Used on Kagerou N1 and Kaguya N2

Assuming roles are formatted as:
Spellcard
Spellcard
Active
Passive
Passive Hood

Aya Town
Yuuka's confirmed to have the super miller by Dai
Kaguya Town
Kagerou has the flavor mod confirmed as a passive
Koishi Town
Daiyousei Reviver
Marisa who knows
Reisen confirmed ascetic by Dai

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Does Reisen count as a ninja? I never really figured out how aesthetic works beyond that nothing non-faction direct target works on them unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Would they have been seen visiting?

Ascetic just roleblocks all actions targetting them except for kills

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Okay in that case I need a Yuuka claim with N1 actions and a Reisen claim with n1 actions.

I’m a contagious watcher. This isn’t the word but it’s what it means.
Whoever visits who I watch gets a flower and then the next night they get watched Too They’re informed about the flower but not what it does.

My spell card was wasted. Because clown dodged. Other than that I can self watch non-consecutively.

And when I’m visited a player receives a message that I’m an incident causer.

Is there any way to not get a flower? Like way you're wording this the only way for flowers to be gone is "Not successfully use the ability" and "Lim flower holder during day"

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I really want Marisa to actually get here and claim already

[Kaguya Houraisan]

That seems... really strong? Like solve the game by yourself tier strong

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I wanna sleep on this and see how much Marisa being scum makes sense cause she's the only person without a verified Passive

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I wanna sleep on this and see how much Marisa being scum makes sense cause she's the only person without a verified Passive

Verified or claimed?

Other than my Stealthy claim everyone elses passive is either Verified or conftown

Aya Town
Yuuka's confirmed to have the super miller by Dai
Kaguya Town
Kagerou has the flavor mod confirmed as a passive
Koishi Town
Daiyousei Reviver
Marisa who knows
Reisen confirmed ascetic by Dai

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I wanna sleep on this and see how much Marisa being scum makes sense cause she's the only person without a verified Passive

My passive is being in a hood with Sanae, and since Sanae flipped town it's verified I have one.

This is wrong, if you're in a hood you have a regular passive and then an extra hood passive

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Hi Okay so I have some info to reveal. Namely that I am indeed the passive disabler but I targeted Daiyousei night 1, not Kagerou.

Meaning that I was redirected.

Why did you not claim this when I specifically asked you and Reisen to claim the passive disabler if that was you

[Kaguya Houraisan]

The fact that Kaguya is trying to solve the game by the existence of passives is ???

Can someone explain to me how have we gotten into this weird situation?

Barring special exceptions like Sanae, role PMs are formatted as:
Spellcard
Spellcard
Active
Passive
Passive Hood

Since we're in a situation with 2 watcher claims + 2 stealthy claims, the passive check was to see if it makes sense for there to be a third scum stealthy by ruling out everyones passives

[Kaguya Houraisan]

This is wrong, if you're in a hood you have a regular passive and then an extra hood passive

Whence this information?

Sanae, Me, Daiyousei, Reisen

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Like if you're claiming that your only passive is the hood you're very much the odd one out

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Did Daiyousei re-appear when I was away or how do we know info about her role?

Dai's passive lets her revive

[Kaguya Houraisan]

This is wrong, if you're in a hood you have a regular passive and then an extra hood passive

Whence this information?

Sanae, Me, Daiyousei, Reisen

WDYM? Sanae is dead...

Read her role PM, other than having a billion spellcards she still has the

Active
Passive
Hood Passive

formatting

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Spoiler: Role PM

Patchouli Knowledge

You are

Patchouli Knowledge - The Great Unmoving Library

.
You are aligned with

Incident Resolver

Fire Sign "Agni Shine"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Tracks the target. High level follows the target.
Water Sign "Princess Undine"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Protects target from a single kill attempt during the night. High level protects target from multiple kill attempts.
Wood Sign "Sylphy Horn"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Neighborizes a target with you. High level neighborizes two targets of your choice.
Earth Sign "Lazy Trilithon"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Learns the action of the dead player the night they died. High level learns all night actions of the dead player.
Metal Sign "Metal Fatigue"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Delays the target's action. High level roleblocks the target.
Sun Sign "Royal Flare"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Turns the target voteless during the next day. High level also turns the target hated for the day.
Moon Sign "Silent Selene"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Shuts down Neighborhood for a phase if the target is in one. High level shuts it down permanently.

Magic Supremacy

[Active][Night]

- You begin the game with 1 Magic Point (MP for short), and gains 1 MP every beginning of the subsequent days.
Using a spellcard normally consumes 1 MP.
With 2 MP, you can choose to use two spellcards in conjunction with a single usage, or use a high level version of the spellcard.
With 3 MP, you can use a powerful spellcared

Fire Water Wood Metal Earth Sign "Philosopher's Stone"

, which uses all the remaining spellcards you have for one of the following effects:

Spoiler: Philosopher's Stone

Neighborize the target and exits the game together for a single phase, becoming untargetable but also disable all actions, posting, and voting.
Reveals your alignment and become untargetable for a day and night publicly, and become a treestump when dead.
Gains all Spell Cards of an eliminated player, unless otherwise noted.

Using the spellcards with insufficient points will cause you to die after the card's activation.

Frail Elementalist

[Passive]

- As a high level magician, you begin the game with a lot more spellcards compared to other players. However, you can only activate the spellcards twice per game, even if you would have spellcards left after. Additionally, you cannot be protected from any killing actions.

Scarlet Devil Mansion

[Passive]

- You are in a neighborhood with

Marisa Kirisame

.

Win Condition:

Eliminate all

Incident Causers

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Now I kinda really wanna lim Marisa here just off the claim, someone talk me out of it

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Well sucks for you, mech solver, but my passive is just the hood :shrug:

Can you full claim?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Distracted reading from work, but wanted to pop in to verify that Kagerou was indeed my Night 1 target. I thought there was a realistic possibility they'd shoot me and I wanted to turn it back on them if so.

Were you scum reading the wolf D1? It was noisy so if I missed it can you refresh me?

She did in the hood and pretty sure she did it publicly as well

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Well sucks for you, mech solver, but my passive is just the hood :shrug:

Can you full claim?

Nah.

VOTE: Marisa

How about now?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Spoiler: Role PM

Patchouli Knowledge

You are

Patchouli Knowledge - The Great Unmoving Library

.
You are aligned with

Incident Resolver

Fire Sign "Agni Shine"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Tracks the target. High level follows the target.
Water Sign "Princess Undine"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Protects target from a single kill attempt during the night. High level protects target from multiple kill attempts.
Wood Sign "Sylphy Horn"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Neighborizes a target with you. High level neighborizes two targets of your choice.
Earth Sign "Lazy Trilithon"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Learns the action of the dead player the night they died. High level learns all night actions of the dead player.
Metal Sign "Metal Fatigue"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Delays the target's action. High level roleblocks the target.
Sun Sign "Royal Flare"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Turns the target voteless during the next day. High level also turns the target hated for the day.
Moon Sign "Silent Selene"

[Spellcard][Night]

- Shuts down Neighborhood for a phase if the target is in one. High level shuts it down permanently.

Magic Supremacy

[Active][Night]

- You begin the game with 1 Magic Point (MP for short), and gains 1 MP every beginning of the subsequent days.
Using a spellcard normally consumes 1 MP.
With 2 MP, you can choose to use two spellcards in conjunction with a single usage, or use a high level version of the spellcard.
With 3 MP, you can use a powerful spellcared

Fire Water Wood Metal Earth Sign "Philosopher's Stone"

, which uses all the remaining spellcards you have for one of the following effects:

Spoiler: Philosopher's Stone

Neighborize the target and exits the game together for a single phase, becoming untargetable but also disable all actions, posting, and voting.
Reveals your alignment and become untargetable for a day and night publicly, and become a treestump when dead.
Gains all Spell Cards of an eliminated player, unless otherwise noted.

Using the spellcards with insufficient points will cause you to die after the card's activation.

Frail Elementalist

[Passive]

- As a high level magician, you begin the game with a lot more spellcards compared to other players. However, you can only activate the spellcards twice per game, even if you would have spellcards left after. Additionally, you cannot be protected from any killing actions.

Scarlet Devil Mansion

[Passive]

- You are in a neighborhood with

Marisa Kirisame

.

Win Condition:

Eliminate all

Incident Causers

Okay I guess my passive isn't confirmed. I still think hunting scum off passives is extremely, extremely dubious.

You're literally the only person claiming to deviate from the

Active
Passive
Optional Hood Passive

format

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You're literally the only person claiming to deviate from the

Active
Passive
Optional Hood Passive

format

Which given that you spent the entire time away from this game points to scum messing up a fakeclaim more than anything for me

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Not to mention you're still stalling your fullclaim after the conftown has asked for your fullclaim

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You're literally the only person claiming to deviate from the

Active
Passive
Optional Hood Passive

format

Which given that you spent the entire time away from this game points to scum messing up a fakeclaim more than anything for me

"Gif forgot to do that one and had to quickly make it and just gave ffery the cliff notes in the review" is an entirely possible chain of events, this is not compelling to me and never will be.

What's your take on Marisa

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You're literally the only person claiming to deviate from the

Active
Passive
Optional Hood Passive

format

Which given that you spent the entire time away from this game points to scum messing up a fakeclaim more than anything for me

"Gif forgot to do that one and had to quickly make it and just gave ffery the cliff notes in the review" is an entirely possible chain of events, this is not compelling to me and never will be.

What's your take on Marisa

As of right this second? If its the three of us in 3P, I vote you twice.

What's the Marisa towncase

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I'm gonna look at how Marisa handled Sanae D2 vs Kaguya D3 in the morning

[Kaguya Houraisan]

In dwelling on it some more, I don't see Mafia Marisa claiming to have targeted me with the Night 1 passive disable, because if it's a lie it's an extremely risky one and if it's the truth then it was an extremely-questionable-at-best decision given the Night 1 game state.

I also don't see Mafia Kaguya kicking up this much of a fuss about Marisa over role PM structure details when she already has a stated solve of Yuuka/Kagerou from earlier today, because it would have cost her absolutely nothing to just chalk Marisa's claim up to weirdness, give up on pursuing her, and fall back on that.

So I suppose I am tentatively plunking down a willingness to steamroll {Yuuka/Reisen/Kagerou} for the victory, with the understanding that not everyone will agree with my exclusion from this list.

I'm not ok with putting Marisa in the towncore

I'm also not ok with her stalling with the fullclaim after she got asked by Aya to fullclaim twice so that she doesn't have to full claim while sleep deprived when she evidently still had time and energy to case in thread

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai who's passive do you think Mafrisa would disable over yours N1?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Has Bun's full claim come through? If so, yes we have it! I'm all a flurry of feathers!

Marisa's hasn't

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It's almost as if she doesn't have a fakeclaim ready yet

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai who's passive do you think Mafrisa would disable over yours N1?

Playerlist:

1. Tenshi Hinanawi -

   Tenshi Hinanawi
   
   
2. Aya Shameimaru -
   Aya Shameimaru
   • Wind Sign "Wind God's Fan" [Spellcard/Night] Deflector, resolves first
     
   • [Spellcard] Make all PTs found with PT Cop ability public
     
   • [Active/Night] PT Cop
     
   • [Passive] Invisible to action investigatives
3. Yuuka Kazami -
   Yuuka Kazami
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used N1 on Clownpiece
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Self-watch
     
   • [Passive] Notifies anyone visiting her that she's part of the scum team
4. Kaguya Houraisan -
   Wakasagihime
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Effects targetting me resolve as if Strongwilled, get 3 fish total when combined with singing
     
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Doctor a single person per two fish
     
   • [Active/Night] - Sing to get 1 fish (Resolves before my spellcards)
     
   • [Passive] - Invisible to action investigatives
     
   • [Passive] - In a hood with Daiyousei
5. Kagerou Imaizumi -
   Marisa Kirisame
   • Love Sign "Master Spark" [Spellcard/Night] Juggernaut, can't be recharged
     
   • Magic Sign "Stardust Reverie" [Spellcard] Enter a hood, if it's temporary make it permanent
     
   • Burglary [Active/Night] Flavor Cop with extra effects
     
   • [Passive] Mod Confirmed to be
     Marisa Kirisame
6. Koishi Komeiji -
   Youmu Konpaku
   • [Spellcard/Night] Change Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard target, both Koishi and new target are bulletproof for the night, informed if anyone attacked Koishi or new target
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard, target gets Strongwilled if Koishi dies at night
     
   • [Passive] Immune to Day Abilities, including vote multipliers
7. Eternity Larva -

   Seiran
   
   
8. Ichirin Kumoi -

   Medicine Melancholy
   
   
9. Daiyousei -
   Daiyousei
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used it to check Yuuka/Reisen/Koishi d1
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Redirect all actions targeting her to her target, if her target dies she dies
     
   • [Passive] Come back to life after dying
     
   • Misty Lake Resident [Passive] In a Hood with Kaguya Houraisan
10. Marisa Kirisame -
    Remilia Scarlet
    /
    Flandre Scarlet
    • [Spellcard] Unknown
      
    • [Spellcard] Unknown
      
    • [Active] Unknown
      
    • [Passive] Unknown
      
    • Scarlet Devil Mansion [Passive] You are in a neighborhood with Sanae Kochiya
11. Clownpiece -

    Toyosatomimi no Miko
    
    
12. Reisen Udongein Inaba - Unknown, Lunarian
    • [Spellcard] Semi-protective
      
    • [Spellcard] Offset an action by a phase
      
    • [Active] Shut down PT
      
    • [Passive] Ascetic
      
    • [Passive] In a neighborhood with Eternity Larva at night
13. Sanae Kochiya -

    Patchouli Knowledge

Known scum abilities:

• Spellcard Blocker - Used on Sanae N1
  
• Passive ability disabler - Used on Kagerou N1 and Kaguya N2

Tenshi doable
Aya claimed Stealthy so not really an important passive
Yuuka claimed Super Miller so not really an important passive
Kaguya doable
Kagerou had the flavor reveal so not really an important passive since it already happened
Koishi claimed Immune to Day Abilities so only needed if scum had day abilities that they needed to use on Koishi (and since she was getting shot this can be ruled out)
Larva was scum
Ichirin was dead
Dai doable
Marisa is Marisa
Clownpiece doable
Reisen claimed Ascetic so can't passive disable
Sanae doable maybe? would depend on what she claimed in the hood

That leaves the list as Tenshi/Kaguya/Dai/Clownpiece/Sanae for people who'd be getting disabled

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Given that scum spellcard-blocked Sanae and probably expected her to die D2, can knock her out of the list which would narrow it down further to Tenshi/Kaguya/Dai/Clownpiece

[Kaguya Houraisan]

And uhh when I write it like this, passive blocking the only not-widely-townread person that she'd bother to block seems like the play if you're setting up further lims down the line

[Kaguya Houraisan]

fyi, who did Kagerou burgle from n2?

Reisen

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Oh I just realised that the format for Reisens claim also doesnt make sense since Hood Passives are present in both role PMs and Larva didn't have a hood passive so Reisens hood passive would have to take the slot of a regular passive like Clownpiece did

But then Reisen's confirmed Ascetic by Kagerou and Dai so that also doesn't make sense

[Kaguya Houraisan]

How much sense does a Reisen/Marisa team make? That's my homework for the people still awake

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dunno.
I don’t expect amateurish play from Marisa.

Reisen as a role blocker makes sense. That’s why I wanna know if their theme is their actual role.

Speaking of people fake claiming, do you think Marisa might be the spellcard roleblocker too due to stalling fullclaim + passive disabler being thematically fitting for it or do you think only Reisen might be fakeclaiming

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You're literally the only person claiming to deviate from the

Active
Passive
Optional Hood Passive

format

Which given that you spent the entire time away from this game points to scum messing up a fakeclaim more than anything for me

"Gif forgot to do that one and had to quickly make it and just gave ffery the cliff notes in the review" is an entirely possible chain of events, this is not compelling to me and never will be.

There's always at least one fakeclaim in Reisen/Marisa, ffery would either go the Clownpiece passive route and make Reisen only have one passive (So either Hood or Ascetic) or go the Dai/Kaguya/Sanae passive route and make Marisa have a hood passive and a regular passive

If there's a fakeclaim it's cause they don't want to claim a scum action, so that'd be the Sanae N1 where her spellcard was blocked but her active still went through

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Scenario 1: Marisa scum/Reisen town

Dai was hit with the passive disable N1 (and redirected it to Kagerou) and I was hit by it N2 so it's an active, meaning that the Spellcard block would be either a Spellcard that was used N1 or some sort of passive (Though realistically it'd be a Spellcard). The refusal to even fullclaim the spellcard she isn't using tonight would point to this world

Scenario 2: Marisa town/Reisen scum

Reisen is confirmed Ascetic both d1 by Dai and n2 by Kagerou, so if she's fakeclaiming her role she'd either have Ascetic as an Active and the Hood as a Passive (Which is a really weird role PM that I don't think makes sense unless it's specifically designed that way to avoid interacting with Marisa's Passive Disable) or she's Ascetic and lied about the Hood on D2 unprovoked (Which like, why?)

Scenario 3: Marisa scum/Reisen scum

Similar problem to Scenario 2 except Ascetic being an Active to avoid getting shut down by Marisa makes no sense cause why would you ever do that to a scum buddy

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Scenario 2: Marisa town/Reisen scum

Reisen is confirmed Ascetic both d1 by Dai and n2 by Kagerou, so if she's fakeclaiming her role she'd either have Ascetic as an Active and the Hood as a Passive (Which is a really weird role PM that I don't think makes sense unless it's specifically designed that way to avoid interacting with Marisa's Passive Disable)

Also this'd mean she fake claimed her Active unprovoked

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Did marisa claim flavor?

One: Scum probably have safe claims from the mod

It's not even a safe claim since Marisa's already implicitly confirmed it's an SDM theme'd hood, you just have to tweak what your spellcard does

Oh, true.

Also ew. The SDM hood has Marisa and Patchouli and not Sakuya or Remilia? What is this PT, "Scarlet Devil Library Time"?

Nope! I'm actually one of the Scarlet sisters

[Kaguya Houraisan]

So they’re flandre?

Or Remilia

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Flandre’s not much of a role blocker.
Oh, I don’t know why I thought remilia was taken.
I guess they could behave as a role blocker in a classical vampire sense.

But I don’t really. Hmm. I’m not super familiar with remilia’s powers.

To be clear, the scum roleblock isn't a traditional roleblock. Sanae's spellcard was roleblocked but her active still went through N1

I did misunderstand something
Something interfered with the spellcard and prevented it from activated, not with magic supremacy

So you're saying you were hit with an effect that blocks spellcards but not actives?

I think so, yes

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I genuinely don’t think Flandre has a role block.

It is said she possesses the ability to destroy anything at all even without touching them.
Everything that is made for her to play with ends up broken, so she probably doesn't have many playmates.
Her method of destroying things so effortlessly involves pouring her power into the "eyes" of any material where its tension is the highest.
She can use her ability to cause these "eyes" to move into the palm of her hand.
In other words, by crushing the "eye" held within her hand, she causes things to break.

I think this could be flavored to destroy a Spellcard which I think would also cause what we saw with Sanae N1 and probably makes more sense than a Roleblock that only targets Spellcards

[Kaguya Houraisan]

An ability set of "breaking things" with "break passive abilities (as an active)", "break spellcards (as a spellcard)", and "break actives/something else (as another spellcard)" wouldn't be that crazy for Flandre

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I'm not sure how much stock I put into flavor spec given I exist at all.

Non-Touhou-knowers are invited to look up my character to see what I'm talking about.

Counterpoint: Touhou LostWord

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If Lost Word were relevant, I would have a 16-ton weight vig shot.

Yukarin, why didn't you give Dai a 16 ton anvil?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Kaguya how would you feel about shooting your shot here and then not hating me forever if I try to kill you next day phase if you’re wrong again?

Do you think there's any chance that Marisa + Reisen are both town? If not then I'd prefer to save the deathmatch until 4p/3p if I'm wrong and hit the other first. If yes then I'd rather talk it out first in case I'm wrong

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Yes, I think there’s a chance they’re both town.

My reasoning is that they can't be both town for the following reason

1. Premise: All roles are made by GIF
   
2. Premise: Roles made by GIF follow a consistent formatting of Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Passive/Start of game Hood Passive
   
3. Marisa has Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Start of game Hood Passive -> Marisa's role does not follow this format -> Marisa's role wasn't made by GIF
   
4. Reisen has Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Passive/Passive -> Reisen's role does not follow this format -> Reisen's role wasn't made by GIF

---

1. Premise: All roles are made by GIF or fferyllt
   
2. Premise: Roles made by GIF follow a consistent formatting of Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Passive/Start of game Hood Passive
   
3. Premise: fferyllt was given this same formatting
   
4. Premise: If fferyllt misunderstood the formatting, it would be misunderstood in the same way every time
   
5. Premise: Assume both Marisa and Reisen's roles are made by fferyllt
   
6. If Marisa is Town then that means fferyllt misunderstood the formatting and assumed all roles are Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Passive, and that Hoods take up the Passive Slot -> This means they wouldn't give Reisen both Passive Ascetic and Passive Hood Generation -> Reisen's lying about her role -> Reisen is scum
   
7. If Reisen is Town then that means fferyllt misunderstood the formatting and assumed all roles are Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Passive/Hood Passive, and that abilities that generate a hood like Clownpiece take up the Hood Passive Slot -> This means they would give Marisa both a Hood Passive and a Regular Passive -> Marisa's lying about her role -> Marisa is scum

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I’m not sure how much FF would be piping in. I’m not familiar with the mod dynamic between the two.

I'm not either, but do you see any other way for there to be a deviation in role PMs for both Marisa and Reisen which is what would be implied with both of them being town

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Do we know who all did the reviewing for this game? If there's 3+ people doing the setup then Marisa + Reisen town could work

[Kaguya Houraisan]

/in to mod

Game Name:

Touhou UPick - Anonymous Edition

Number of Players:

13

Backup/Co-Mod:

fferyllt

Reviewer:

fferyllt, Syryana

Setup Link:

it’s a UPick

Player Experience:

This account has a finished game under the belt, along with much more in main.

Moderating Experience:

This account has modded two large themes in the past.

Current Modding Commitments:

None!

Hydra Policy:

No hydra. This is an anonymous game.

Alt Policy:

Thid is an anonymous game, thus everyone will be given an alt account to play with.

Playerlist Policy:

all the known variants of WOTX applies.

Other Restrictions:

As this is an anonymous game, please sign up by PMing this account! Also, please try not to replace out once you join. Finding a replacement for anonymous AND a UPick is kinda pain.

Deadlines:

10/2 for first cycle, 7/2 for the rest.

Prod Timer:

48 hours.

Is Daytalk enabled:

Yes

Is it possible your game has any mechanically bastard roles or mechanics?

Unfortunately no

Is it possible your game has any procedurally bastard dynamics?

Please do not tempt me by asking such questions. (No)

Requests for exceptions to site rules:

Not that I know of, unless running an Anon game requires one.

Other:

This is an anonymous game! Alt-slipping WILL make this game much harder for yourself!

Hmm so 3 people designed the setup then?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

This game is like a mech mirage, every time I think I have something it slips away into the ether

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Anyone here have experience with how GIF does setup design to chime in on if 4817 would still apply even with fferyllt and Syryana reviewing?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It’s the easiest explanation. But not the best one.
It’s not even the easiest really.

I guess it depends if one of them visited clown N1 or had a day ability. Or maybe just called a bluff I missed.

If one of them got blocked by Tenshi they'd be able to tell your Spellcard failed cause of the commute instead of Tenshi

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Or if they Tracked Tenshi/Watched You/Rolecopped you (Though with Larva's PM they probably don't have a second one)/Had some other way of knowing you could only target Clownpiece with a Spellcard

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I think Tenshi just didn’t use their ability and correctly identified that using that ability day 1 is anti-town.

I'm talking about the Active that messes with actives, I can confirm my N1 Spellcard went through cause otherwise I'd have been missing fish

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Oh wait even her spellcard only blocks actives. Either way though I know she didn't use it cause otherwise I'd still be missing fish

[Kaguya Houraisan]

VC 3.03

Kaguya Houraisan [1]:

Marisa Kirisame

Reisen Udongein Inaba [1]:

Koishi Komeiji

Kagerou Imaizumi [1]:

Yuuka Kazami

Not Voting:

Kaguya Houraisan, Aya Shameimaru, Kagerou Imaizumi, Reisen Udongein Inaba, Daiyousei

With

8

remaining,

5

votes to eliminate

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-04-06 03:46:21)

I'm voting Marisa

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It’s the easiest explanation. But not the best one.
It’s not even the easiest really.

I guess it depends if one of them visited clown N1 or had a day ability. Or maybe just called a bluff I missed.

If one of them got blocked by Tenshi they'd be able to tell your Spellcard failed cause of the commute instead of Tenshi

One of them did not get blocked by Tenshi,
Fairly sure but not certain. But it sounds like you should be certain given fish thing.

Meant this:

Sword of Hisou

[Active][Night]

- You can use your Sword of Hisou to gather your target's Ki and manipulate the weather around them to one of the choices below. This ability cannot be used on the same target consecutively.
* Typhoon - Delays an

[Active]

ability by a phase

[Kaguya Houraisan]

No, I was targeted by Tenshi. I mentioned this.

You tried to self-watch n1?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I received the buff.
I did not self watch that day, I watched clown.

Which one?

* Drizzle - Motivates an [Active] ability
* Sunny - Make an [Active] ability resolve without any potential modifiers

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Drizzle.

Dang, self watching twice in the same night is really useful

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Seems like i fucked up my last useful night action lol

otherwise sorry again for the really quiet day 2, today should be way better

So why'd you flavor cop me when I said my role prevents me from fake claiming my flavor?

that's fun cause i didn't do that and it's not like there's a redirection since i actually targeted reisen and got no result (wanted to check her ascetic status)

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Two people claimed to have checked it but I understand it because, well, someone has to and you can’t claim it in thread. That you’re checking there, you could crumb tho.

Who's the 2nd? I only remember Dai checking

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Oh I thought you meant Dai/Kagerou/A Third checked Reisens claim

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Oh I just realised that the format for Reisens claim also doesnt make sense since Hood Passives are present in both role PMs and Larva didn't have a hood passive so Reisens hood passive would have to take the slot of a regular passive like Clownpiece did

But then Reisen's confirmed Ascetic by Kagerou and Dai so that also doesn't make sense

WDYM?

The Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Passive/Hood Passive format is only followed when the Hood is there from the start and it's also present as a passive on both sides; if the hood gets created later then it looks like it should be following the Clownpiece format where the hood takes up the regular Passive slot. Larva doesn't have a hood passive and Reisen is claiming the hood came about N1 so that would normally be taking Reisen's regular Passive slot, but Reisen's also confirmed to be Ascetic which would be taking up a regular Passive slot

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You mean the hood STEALS your passive?

If you start in a hood then both members of the hood would have an extra passive that puts them in the hood (e.g. Daiyousei/Kaguya/Sanae)

If you don't start in a hood but can passively create a hood then your passive would be to create a hood instead of any other passive (e.g. Clownpiece)

Reisen is confirmed to be Ascetic and is claiming to have a passive that created a hood n1

[Kaguya Houraisan]

My issue here is as other players go up, I'm left staring at my Yuuka read wondering why it's still so town and if I'm just insane.

Dai, please come solve with us, I KNOW there's a player in there who really wants to dig into this game and be heard by the herd, I saw it on day one well now's your chance.

While I gather up the hood, I invite you to mull over the middle section of 4297, as a starting point if nothing else.

Not a bad case.

I didn't vote you though.

That comes tomorrow

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It's Japan. It's probably one of those silly trillion year old cases and YOU'RE the criminal one anyways:

Spoiler:

Age
Approximately 495 years

RIGHT TO JAIL

Hey, I didn't flirt with Clownpiece! Only with Reisen, and she's at least 19 or something...

[Kaguya Houraisan]

D3:
Kaguya and Yuuka taking up 90% of the posts
Koishi desperately trying to get people to contribute
Everyone else hibernating

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If we could Not Have This Conversation, that'd be much apprecaited.

Wait which one?

Thou Shalt Not Meta

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai what do you think about Marisa claiming to be Flandre

[Kaguya Houraisan]

(I should add here that I don't think there's a realistic chance you get exterminated today no matter how hard Kaguya tries)

What if I use stolen lunarian mind control tech?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Thou Shalt Not Meta

[Kaguya Houraisan]

"Everyone in this game is an alt of ZUN"

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If you're ACTUALLY claiming an investigative then put that front and center because if so I'll debate if I wanna flip a coin between you and Aya tonight on the seraph-BG.

Well sucks for you, mech solver, but my passive is just the hood :shrug:

Can you full claim?

Nah.

How about for me?

If I claim I lose the ability to maybe get a guilty tonight. Is it worth it?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Yes I am aware that it was said, I thought it was a taunt, not a real ting.

I absolutely did not take it as a taunt given that she's still not claiming after Aya asked multiple times

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Question: Why did Marisa wait until ELO to use the ability that can generate guilties?

If it's something like Watcher she should have used it N2 on Koishi/Aya

If it's something like Cop why didn't she use it already

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Has the bunny claimed flavor yet?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Playerlist:

1. Tenshi Hinanawi -

   Tenshi Hinanawi
   
   
2. Aya Shameimaru -
   Aya Shameimaru
   • Wind Sign "Wind God's Fan" [Spellcard/Night] Deflector, resolves first
     
   • [Spellcard] Make all PTs found with PT Cop ability public
     
   • [Active/Night] PT Cop
     
   • [Passive] Invisible to action investigatives
3. Yuuka Kazami -
   Yuuka Kazami
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used N1 on Clownpiece
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Self-watch
     
   • [Passive] Notifies anyone visiting her that she's part of the scum team
4. Kaguya Houraisan -
   Wakasagihime
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Effects targetting me resolve as if Strongwilled, get 3 fish total when combined with singing
     
   • [Spellcard/Night] - Doctor a single person per two fish
     
   • [Active/Night] - Sing to get 1 fish (Resolves before my spellcards)
     
   • [Passive] - Invisible to action investigatives
     
   • [Passive] - In a hood with Daiyousei
5. Kagerou Imaizumi -
   Marisa Kirisame
   • Love Sign "Master Spark" [Spellcard/Night] Juggernaut, can't be recharged
     
   • Magic Sign "Stardust Reverie" [Spellcard] Enter a hood, if it's temporary make it permanent
     
   • Burglary [Active/Night] Flavor Cop with extra effects
     
   • [Passive] Mod Confirmed to be
     Marisa Kirisame
6. Koishi Komeiji -
   Youmu Konpaku
   • [Spellcard/Night] Change Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard target, both Koishi and new target are bulletproof for the night, informed if anyone attacked Koishi or new target
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Compulsive Fixed Bodyguard, target gets Strongwilled if Koishi dies at night, target immune to all scum abilities
     
   • [Passive] Immune to Day Abilities, including vote multipliers
7. Eternity Larva -

   Seiran
   
   
8. Ichirin Kumoi -

   Medicine Melancholy
   
   
9. Daiyousei -
   Daiyousei
   • [Spellcard] Unknown, used it to check Yuuka/Reisen/Koishi d1
     
   • [Spellcard] Unknown
     
   • [Active/Night] Redirect all actions targeting her to her target, if her target dies she dies
     
   • [Passive] Come back to life after dying
     
   • Misty Lake Resident [Passive] In a Hood with Kaguya Houraisan
10. Marisa Kirisame -
    Remilia Scarlet
    /
    Flandre Scarlet
    • [Spellcard] Some kind of Guilty generator
      
    • [Spellcard] Unknown
      
    • [Active] Disable Passive
      
    • Scarlet Devil Mansion [Passive] You are in a neighborhood with Sanae Kochiya
11. Clownpiece -

    Toyosatomimi no Miko
    
    
12. Reisen Udongein Inaba -
    Reisen Udongein Inaba
    • [Spellcard] Semi-protective
      
    • [Spellcard] Offset an action by a phase
      
    • [Active] Shut down PT
      
    • [Passive] Ascetic
      
    • [Passive] In a neighborhood with Eternity Larva at night
13. Sanae Kochiya -

    Patchouli Knowledge

Known scum abilities:

• Spellcard Blocker - Used on Sanae N1

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Okay Kaguya I tried to follow your chain of logic of why you think I can't be town with Reisen and I just have no idea why you decided that this:

Premise: Roles made by GIF follow a consistent formatting of Spellcard/Spellcard/Active/Passive/Start of game Hood Passive

Is correct. Like where does this assumption come from?

Take a look at the claims + flips, the only people that deviate are Sanae (who had a passive + active that let her deviate by giving her 5 spellcards and even then she'd only be able to use two), Marisa (who's missing a Passive), and Reisen (who has an extra passive)

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Like if I see 10/13 people following a pattern and an 11th that has a passive + active explicitly pointing out that she's breaking from a pattern I'm gonna assume there's a pattern there

[Kaguya Houraisan]

nvm, Sanae's active doesn't specify the pattern is being broken, just her passive. Point still stands

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Like if I see 10/13 people following a pattern and an 11th that has a passive + active explicitly pointing out that she's breaking from a pattern I'm gonna assume there's a pattern there

But you aren't. Not every person in those 10 actually has a hood.

I can read Sanae's flip

I know my PM

I trust Dai to be trueclaiming her PM

You'd be the odd one out in the hood pattern there

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I trust Dai to be trueclaiming her PM

To be clear, the alternative would be that Dai made up an extra passive for no reason if I wanna disbelieve Dai here

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You are seeing 10 people who only half of which have a hood, and then you are claiming "10 people follow the format of having both a hood and another passive", it's just a misrepresentation of reality.

3/4 hooded people who are in a hood from the start are confirmed to follow the Active/Passive/Hood Passive format, and the only one deviating is both claiming a flavor that would explain Sanae's Spellcard Block and also sus as hell already. Is that better for you?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

To be clear: my scumread on you is a combination of mod spec with the passive, getting any sort of claim from you being like pulling teeth, and the parts of the claim you did give being something that I'd have expected you to use earlier instead of ELO when right now you're pushing someone who I know is town (me), as well as your flavor claim being a very good explanation for what'd otherwise be a very weird ability used on Sanae (where her Active went through but her Spellcard got blocked)

[Kaguya Houraisan]

getting any sort of claim from you being like pulling teeth

This especially. You can evidently play a pretty solid game even when sleep deprived, but fucking up a claim here gets you killed on the spot. Going brick wall mode when asked to claim by a conftown (like not even claiming your flavor) is pretty sussy

[Kaguya Houraisan]

So if you are town do everyone a favor (not just me, Dai and Koishi are both also unhappy with this at the very least) and start talking about non-mech things.

Pedit: 90% of this is mech.

When did reads based off what you'd actually be doing if you had the PM you're claiming to have become mech

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Second of all 3/4 isn't as compelling as 10/13 all of a sudden, is it?

3/4 = 75%; 10/13 ~= 76.9%

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You can evidently play a pretty solid game even when sleep deprived

Hmm?

You claimed to be sleep deprived from jet lag but also dropped a big case on me?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Does jet lag not cause sleep deprivation?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Whatever, this is the kind of response you'd give as both scum and town so it's not really useful for sorting

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Can you explain why you decided not to use the guilty generator until ELO?

If not, can you claim right now if it'll be obvious after the reveal why you decided not to use the guilty generator until ELO?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Also, if you are so married to spell/spell/active/passive:
I have a confirmed active that targeted two different players. I have a confirmable spell and my other spell (the one that can generate guilties and/or innos) is semi confirmable. So unless you admit the mods could be violating that formula and then just drop that silly case, I can prove that I did not in fact roleblock Sanae.

If you come into ELO with a guilty or an inno you can't actually prove you didn't roleblock Sanae because the game becomes a 1v1

[Kaguya Houraisan]

So there isn't actually time for you to prove your other spellcard

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Wait no nvm I'm dumb tomorrow is MELO not ELO

[Kaguya Houraisan]

VC 3.03

Kaguya Houraisan [1]:

Marisa Kirisame

Reisen Udongein Inaba [1]:

Koishi Komeiji

Kagerou Imaizumi [1]:

Yuuka Kazami

Not Voting:

Kaguya Houraisan, Aya Shameimaru, Kagerou Imaizumi, Reisen Udongein Inaba, Daiyousei

With

8

remaining,

5

votes to eliminate

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-04-06 03:46:21)

It's missing my vote on Marisa though

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I remember Reisen being pretty townie on my first re-read but deviant role PM formatting + Yuuka going up from live chatting is bringing them down. If you flip town they drop to the bottom of the list
Yuuka just feels like town when I've been live chatting with her recently, though this is primarily a D3 biased read and she was flying under my radar until now
Kagerou I think would be scum by POE if you flip town but I'm wouldn't bet the game on it there. Her arguments kind of remind me of the type of arguments scum tend to use when pushing me where they use my hyper-confident playstyle and call it TMI

[Kaguya Houraisan]

this thread feels like watching Kaguya trying to pry open the PoE with a crowbar

this was a jokey post but the feeling behind it is absolutely real, Kaguya kinda feels like scum forgetting to keep up appearances in a way because they are so busy with all that's already on their mind?

Put more words to this and make me feel it.

Kaguya is acting pretty suddenly in a way that's very straight to the point and focused, it reads as if she kinda bypassed some of the steps to solving that people usually need to take, notice how a lot of her takes, come out effortlessly without a lot of solving visible to the naked eye, and while that's not inherently a scum trait, some of her posts like the one in 4595 read as if she already had an idea for a case and is fitting it the best way she can to answer Yuuka rather than like, trying to play *with* Yuuka?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about with Kagerou, especially where if you read 4600 it's pretty clear 4595 was a rhetorical technique

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Especially the reads you'd have in a world where I get flipped today and flip town, rendering your theory either completely or at least partially incorrect.

Same to you, what are your reads if I flip town here

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Do town vigs normally shoot day 1.
That thought just occurred to me, but I'm pretty sure they do. Rather the curve probably isn't significant like a significant incline.
I always do it day 2 or 3. Unless the set up forces the issue in some way.

Timing isn't that alignment indicative once the shot goes off, the difference is more in who they shot

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If we’re not going to force Marisa to claim I want to force Reisen to claim since I find them probably the most likely to be a role blocker just from thematic stand point.

Hi I’m reisen.

I was gonna claim some of my stuff but I’ll add I WAS in a hood. I don’t think that applies anymore with larva dead.

I have an ability to shut down a pt(I don’t think that’s very useful so I haven’t and won’t use it) did not target kaguya with this
A semi protective
And I can offset an action by a phase

I don’t really know how to use the last one and the second one is pretty specific to get any use out of, I don’t want to elaborate more than that on it.

What's a spellcard and what's an active, also what exactly do you mean by semi protective

Active
Spell card
Spell card

….that kind of falls into the not elaborating bit. If I tip my hand it will lose its potential value.

I didn’t act night 1 I just got passively neighbored.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

My preference for the day is Marisa -> Reisen -> Kagerou -> Yuuka in that order

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If we’re not going to force Marisa to claim I want to force Reisen to claim since I find them probably the most likely to be a role blocker just from thematic stand point.

If it was a standard roleblocker then I'd agree with you that Reisen has spellcards that could be flavored like Alien or Roleblocker. It's not a standard roleblocker though since Sanae's active specifically went through and only her spellcard was blocked. If Reisen's the spellblocker then I'd argue she's just lying about her flavor in general

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Ok finally have time for this, I'm hoping to get the part 2 where I look over her D3 posting done later tonight.

There's a disconnect between Marisa's positions over D2 where she wants Sanae dead and her actual approach to Sanae where she's evidently treating her as town in the sense that they're collaboratively sortinging together and in posts like 3676 where it feels like she has to address stuff she knows is going to get looked over again once Sanae flips town. This is especially visible in her Sanae case in 3652 where by the look of it you'd think she'd be treating Sanae like confscum and solving for the rest of the team (Coincidentally Yuuka also pointed out this tonal disconnect in 3689 which makes me feel slightly better about her going up in my reads today)

Spoiler: Quote Wall

It was egging on the 1v1 (which the other half we can probably assume is town as well), and was assigning Ichirin scumminess for not having seen a Koishi post from a couple of hours before, which isn't actually scummy at all, so was functionally serving to pile-on/exacerbate the 1v1

Okay! I will have a look at it this evening.

Yes please
As well as the response I made to what you said to Koishi in the hood.

I think Yuuka probably needs to be re-evaluated as well.

Will do! Bye for now...

I think Koishi's 1391 looks a lot worse, especially knowing Ichirin is town

Nope, I don't see it at all! What I do see though is that both of your only scumreads last day phase are confirmed town now, and this is not a good look,

UwU

(Especially not because I called them out as being fake)

I think Koishi's 1391 looks a lot worse, especially knowing Ichirin is town

Nope, I don't see it at all! What I do see though is that both of your only scumreads last day phase are confirmed town now, and this is not a good look,

UwU

Those were my reads. They may have been wrong but they were my reads at the time

What are your reads now? How confident are you on me and Clownpiece-Chan being town?

Clownpiece pretty confident
You've dropped some, but probably below him and above the
Yuuka/Reisen/Kaguya tier

Probably something like

Aya/koishi -> mechanics
Clown
Dai
You
Kagerou
Kaguya/yuuki
Reisen

Why are you townreading Clown? And why are you scumreading Reisen?

vote-parking on Ichirin is sort of exactly

where I expect scum to be

Yuuka was on the sidelines while end-of-day yesterday went down, and that's sort of

where I'd expect scum to be

Elaborate on this?

Where

exactly

do you expect scum to be?

Also what exactly caused me to drop off? Be as precise as you can please.

Can I get a tldr of why sanae is scum since larva flipped scum?

Sanae is scum because:

- Her push on Koishi felt fake
- Her fight with Aya didn't feel TvT and Aya is confirmed
- She made 2371 which is a scum post because she already had

very confident

reads on both of us and didn't actually need the content
- We stayed her execution yesterday because she promised to self-vig, but then she didn't self vig
- Larva jumped on Sanae wagon and then jumped off in order to equalize the wagons which possibly helped in her execution being delayed
- Both of her big scumreads from day one are confirmed town now and one of her big townreads from day one flipped scum but her reaction is not to reevalutate the the game but to vote you without elaborating (i know she did say she reevaluated peoples positions after acceding aya and koichi are town but i expected more out of a townie). Also the fact that she was universally pushing only town day 1 (yeah i'm preflipping kagerou sorry not sorry) is a bad look.
- poe

Sanae is town because:

- She says she is town repeatedly
- I guess she had the same reads Clownpiece and I had early on and we're both town so maybe she was also town?
- yeah

I'm kinda busy irl till tommorrow but will say look at: Reisen, Kaguya, Yuuka, and Marisa tomorrow

Basically the same list as here, would probably swap Marisa and Kagerou

I'm sorry Sanae but if you are town your solving is really lame

Anyway I agree with Koishi and Clownpiece that we should wait for Aya and I also think we should wait for Reisen because as much as I would like to just pew pew everyone except Reisen, myself and the three conftown (I'll miss you), we don't really have enough clears for that so I would like to make sure Reisen is town before I clear her (or not).

Okay I should also note that I targeted Daiyousei with my active ability last night but I misread what it does so it's actually useless. However I actually read my PM today so hopefully next night I can do something useful. Or not! Maybe I'm just Vanilla Scarlet.

P-edit: You are so very welcome. Since we are not killing you until later, feel free to step up your solving! I may even go back to thinking you are super cool like I did back at the beginning of the game, when I called you Sanae-Sama.

This is tonal whiplash. But I don’t really know what, if anything to make of it. Can’t you two bicker in the scum PT if that’s what that is?

It's probably a combination of being bored to death of this day phase, alternating between role playing and not roleplaying, and talking to my scumread who I'm pushing as if she could be town because I really want to not be wrong so if she's town I want to find her but at the same time I'm pretty confident she's scum, that's producing the tonal whiplash.

Anyway if I were scum with Sanae, Daiyousei would've been dead eons ago and Larva would probably still have been alive.

ftr I'm not assuming that she is town. It's just that I'm finally able to give the game my full attention for the first time since the weekend and I want to explore different possibilities before we end the day.

Yeah I guess this makes sense in a scum!Sanae world. Knowing that all the non-voters were town basically meant that is Sanae was scum Larva had to change vote to let her live, since they couldn't count on non-voters. Also the Larva progression of voting Sanae and then working back into an Ichirin vote feels planned, which is more likely to happen in a scum!Sanae world than in a world where the wagons were TvT. Right? Someone sanity check me please.

Correction: I am limited to phone posting and light banter for the next twelve hours. The issue is not with me but a member of my family's health. Thankfully they are now asleep. So I am here keeping watch.

Koishi help me I'm going insane I hate deadlines I always make the wrong choice near deadlines. I should just vote Sanae right? And reevaluate if she flips town

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Hmm on second look maybe it's less that there's a disconnect and more that there's a concerted effort to discredit all of Sanae's reads

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I'll also note that she claimed the Dai passive disable D2

Okay I should also note that I targeted Daiyousei with my active ability last night but I misread what it does so it's actually useless. However I actually read my PM today so hopefully next night I can do something useful. Or not! Maybe I'm just Vanilla Scarlet.

So she wouldn't be able to change her claimed target today without contradicting herself

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Marisa what did you think your active did and why did you target Dai with it

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Marisa being V/LA for most of D3 kinda sucks cause there's a big void

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Marisa's extreme focus on me D3 is also Really Friggin Bad^TM, the only other reads she expressed this day are

My issue here is as other players go up, I'm left staring at my Yuuka read wondering why it's still so town and if I'm just insane.

Dai, please come solve with us, I KNOW there's a player in there who really wants to dig into this game and be heard by the herd, I saw it on day one well now's your chance.

While I gather up the hood, I invite you to mull over the middle section of 4297, as a starting point if nothing else.

Not a bad case.

Not but really, is this day just coming down to a 1v1 of Marisa v Kaguya?

Lord I hope not.

VOTE: Reisen Udongein Inaba

I might sheep you if Kaguya can do one (1) towny thing this day that doesn't have to do with mech.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Why is Marisa scumreading Reisen when she spent D2 thinking she's town enough to put her in her towncore?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Why am I now your strongest town read of the remaining eliminations you’re willing to entertain?

Why doesn’t it bother you that Dai essentially claimed a penaltyless self resurrection that they claimed had a penalty?

Combination of scumreading Marisa/Reisen/Kagerou and feeling better about you after livechatting and you coming to the same conclusions as me but earlier

What part of Dai claiming a self res makes her scum?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It doesn’t make them scum, it’s just that it’s entirely possible they mislead on the circumstances of their revive.

Where did I come to conclusions faster than you?

I’ve been playing catch up this day phase and last day phase. It’s almost comical.

D2 not D3, you saw the tonal disconnect with how Marisa was talking to Sanae then

[Kaguya Houraisan]

That’s like, one thing.

Ok? You jumping up is a combination of multiple things, of course focusing on one part is gonna make it look weird

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You said conclusions, not conclusion.

I used the wrong word then? Like this is just something I noticed incidentally when rereading Marisa, I haven't actually reread your ISO yet

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You said conclusions, not conclusion.

I used the wrong word then? Like this is just something I noticed incidentally when rereading Marisa, I haven't actually reread your ISO yet

Okay.
so basically you reserve the right as you have always had the right to change your read whenever you want.
My scumdar is going to look at flimsy reads. I guess it could be political based on supposition of where my reads are at. It could also be vibes I guess. You're running out of time for that read this day phase though.

Hmm maybe giving a relative readslist isn't the clearest

On a scale of -100 to +100:

1. Kaguya Houraisan +100
   
2. Koishi Komeiji +99
   
3. Aya Shameimaru +98
   
4. Daiyousei +60 .. +90
   
5. Yuuka Kazami +10 .. +30
   
6. Kagerou Imaizumi -30
   
7. Reisen Udongein Inaba -60
   
8. Marisa Kirisame -80

You are correct that I haven't re-read you and that my read might change when I do, I just don't expect it to change far enough to the point that it'd disrupt the Marisa>Reisen>Kagerou>Yuuka ordering

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Can someone explain what playing positional means btw

[Kaguya Houraisan]

That sounds like a completely alien playstyle

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Do people actually play scum like that?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I flip town, what's the illumination?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

That's literally my solve

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Just skip the hassle and join me on the correct solve

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Mostly because I don’t think larva tries to get me and others, i don’t know if they actually did this with anyone else, to reconsider on kagerou day 1 with their 1v1 if kagerou is their partner.

Wasn't Larva moving to a "Kagerou isn't scum" position at the end of the day?

I do agree on your reasons to townread Ichirin, and like, i think sie's barely above >rand for flipping scum, but i was thinking about who else i was voting if not hir and i kinda blanked on names, don't get me wrong i have scumreads, i'm just not getting them killed

i'm also more comfortable killing a role we know is at worse low utility anyways rather than outing more claims, we already have 3 roles out

hmmmmmmm this is fair

which annoys me

please start answering me with generically scummy responses so my confidence is not shaken

today i learned Kagerou is claiming a dayvig shot and i am left questioning why they wouldn’t just keep this to themselves as scum and just shoot an obvtown player in the event they become the elimination for today

or why as scum they would just lie about a role that should be provable

i hate this for me

i am whatever-ing my reasons for townreading Koishi because they are solely because of her role claim shenanigans

Kagerou’s is at least provable and i wanna give them a chance to hit scum so i don’t have to utilize too much brainpower if they shoot correctly

Koishi will be a question mark as long as she remains alive

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Also can someone walk me through why Marisa is townie cause I'm feeling like we're back in day1landia where Marisa was getting townread for charisma over actually doing townie things

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It also neatly gives me more information about which way I should lean on the Kaguya/Dai
Marisa/Kagerou dichotomy.
If kagerou flips scum I just need to survive to win.

I don't get what this means

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Conspiracy theory: Dai loud commuted/exited the game, you shot clown piece.
Puzzle solved.

What do I gotta do to make that game into reality

Do you think the loud commute makes sense when Dai explicitly said she'd try to get herself killed D2 when she could have just kept quiet about that part and played normally? Especially given that it'd have been impossible to predict that I'd be put in the Clown hood which would make this play even possible

[Kaguya Houraisan]

if people do end up taking interest in trying to math the game out then i should probably publicly say that i am going to spend the rest of the game actively trying to be an extra nightkill, because this is a thing i can do and it will take me off the final day mislim track i'm starting to suspect i've been put on

Like do you think a loud commuter says this?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I dunno what you mean about Dai trying to die.

Pretend you're scumyousei for a second. You have a loud commute. Do you keep quiet about it, do you openly claim it's a loud commute, or do you say you have an ability to Dai and that you're gonna spend the rest of the game trying to Dai to bring the game back to odds when that would prevent you from ever rezzing without immediately getting limmed the same day for bringing the game back to odds for no reason

[Kaguya Houraisan]

*sigh*
Going to to go find the role cards page helpfully constructed by you so I can remember what their ability even does.

Their active lets them redirect all actions targeting them to who they target that night, and if their target dies they die

Their passive lets them rezz in exchange for giving up an unused spellcard

[Kaguya Houraisan]

and unless you think both Marisa and Dai are scum then their active is confirmed since Marisa targeted Dai with her passive disable n1 which Dai redirected to Kagerou

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Well when I think of what scum needs to do post day 1, and this is going to sound completely biased because it’s the opposite of what I’ve been doing, is pick up the pace.

I don’t doubt that Larva was the designated deep wolf considering their position after day 1 and that suggests the other two were in worse positions. Day 2 scums deep wolf flips and I would imagine the remaining partners need to scramble to improve their position. Do I think that needs to be an immediate push? No but day 2 onward that is moved up on the agenda scum had previously.

You and kaguya fit that bill as slots that have had the perception of them improve gamewide over the last two days. Compared to kagerou or Marisa whose standing has either worsened or remained steady.

I went from mostly townread on the 2nd half of d1 to actively at risk of being limmed d3, don't really get how you have this opinion

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I don’t think you’re both scum together.

You think the scumteam is in Yuuka/Kaguya/Dai and that Kaguya/Yuuka isn't the team. Why aren't you voting Dai?

Not that I want Dai to be voted here but still

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-04-06 03:46:21)

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai while you're here

Also can someone walk me through why Marisa is townie cause I'm feeling like we're back in day1landia where Marisa was getting townread for charisma over actually doing townie things

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai while you're here

Also can someone walk me through why Marisa is townie cause I'm feeling like we're back in day1landia where Marisa was getting townread for charisma over actually doing townie things

Unfortunately, I'd want Marisa to answer 5031 before I address this (because I don't want to give her ideas for responses), and I'm heading out the door within the next five minutes.

Post it in the hood then

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai while you're here

Also can someone walk me through why Marisa is townie cause I'm feeling like we're back in day1landia where Marisa was getting townread for charisma over actually doing townie things

Unfortunately, I'd want Marisa to answer 5031 before I address this (because I don't want to give her ideas for responses), and I'm heading out the door within the next five minutes.

.

Ping

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai, the last sentence of your hood argument only applies if it actually happens (I am being deliberately vague here)

[Kaguya Houraisan]

In fact the expected outcome would actually make the last sentence even less likely

[Kaguya Houraisan]

The idea was that if we somehow killed 2 mafia (for example with a well aimed vig on and a a good lim) I could have a clear or guilty on dai, a slot which I had a not very good read on.

If we have 2 maf kills by N2 the game is already won, the more realistic scenario is that there's 0-1 maf kills and the block is anti-town

Like even Tenshi had the good sense to not be using Spring Haze which does almost exactly what you thought your active did

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I'm also not a fan of the subtle narrative reframing going on here where your play only makes sense if two maf flip while glossing over how unlikely it'd be for two maf to flip

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Are you claiming that a town jailkeeper should not jailkeep a null read night 2 because it might hit a town PR?

There's no "might" about it, it's role madness. You're either hitting a town PR that can clear themselves or you're hitting a scum PR that gives info on the scumteam and reduces the claim space or you're hitting the jackpot and stopping the nightkill except you still don't know if you stopped the nightkill or if it was some other protective

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Deadline: 0 days, 19 hours, 42 minutes

Stalling for no lim is a thing that may be happening. Town has no reason not to have claimed yesterday given where stuff is headed.

We're on Evens, a no lim isn't the end of the world

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Worst comes to worst if Reisen claims something strong and there's not enough time to evaluate we can still no lim without losing a mislim then evaluate tomorrow

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Wait Kaguya I forgot to ask: did you use your doc shot?

Yes, that's literally why I called Yuuka a PGO cause I docced both Aya and Koishi

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Koishi's spellcard confirmed neither were shot though

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It's also why I got confused about your "who has the inno" comment until it clicked cause both were already conftown

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Wait Kaguya I forgot to ask: did you use your doc shot?

Yes, that's literally why I called Yuuka a PGO cause I docced both Aya and Koishi

Oh. That makes a lot more sense but also unfortunate because I'd hoped we could double heal them tonight and guarantee they live to next day.

HEAL: Kaguya

I'm going to have to rethink my reads for a bit.

Are you claiming a Protective as Flandre?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

No

Heal tag is my way of expressing an unvote on a person I wasn't voting.

I'd hoped

we

could double heal them tonight and guarantee they live to next day.

Meant this

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Did someone request a blank page? Well give me a few hours and you'll get some indecipherable reads.

Howdy!

tl;dr Aya and Koishi are conftown, do whatever they say

I am the fucking best.

I redirected all abilities that targetted Koishi to Larva.

Tenshi Hinanawi,

Tenshi Hinanawi - Girl of the Sphere of Neither Perception nor Non-Perception

, aligned with

Incident Resolvers

, was eliminated Night 1.

Spoiler: Flip

Tenshi Hinanawi

You are

Tenshi Hinanawi - Girl of the Sphere of Neither Perception nor Non-Perception

.
You are aligned with

Incident Resolver

Abilities:

Keystone "World Creation Press"

[Spellcard][Night]

- You slam a giant keystone onto the ground and shake the very core of the earth. The resulting shockwaves prevents the other players from successfully using their

[Active]

ability.
Peach Sign "Hermit's Peach of Steadfast Durability"

[Spellcard][Night]

- You consume a celestial peach that strengthens your physical resiliance. You become bulletproof for the night.

Sword of Hisou

[Active][Night]

- You can use your Sword of Hisou to gather your target's Ki and manipulate the weather around them to one of the choices below. This ability cannot be used on the same target consecutively.
* Typhoon - Delays an

[Active]

ability by a phase
* Spring Haze - Disables an

[Active]

ability for the next phase
* Drizzle - Motivates an

[Active]

ability
* Sunny - Make an

[Active]

ability resolve without any potential modifiers

Troublemaker Celestial

[Passive]

- Your arrogance and bratty nature makes others want nothing to do with you. You are immune to being neighborized.

Win Condition:

Eliminate all

Incident Causers

Eternity Larva,

Seiran - The Pale Blue Eagle Ravi

, aligned with

Incident Causers

, was eliminated Night 1.

Spoiler: Flip

Seiran

You are

Seiran - The Pale Blue Eagle Ravi

.
You are aligned with

Incident Causer

Abilities:

Bullet Sign "The Eagle Shot Its Target"

[Spellcard][Night]

- You mark the target with your Lunarian targeting device. Your actions against the marked target next night will be treated as strongwilled.
Gun Sign "Lunatic Gun"

[Spellcard][Day/Night]

- Back in the day when you were a soldier, you were supplied a gun, and you've kept it ever since. You can load the gun with one of the spellcard you have copied from your

Ex-Infiltrator

or

Dango Salesgirl

ability, and use it on the target during the phase specified by the spellcard.

Dango Salesgirl

[Active][Night]

- You visit a player and give them a Dango. Target is notified that they received a Dango. Also, you learn the first-listed Spell Card of the target.

Ex-Infiltrator

[Passive]

- You utilize a simple trick or two learned from your scouting experience. The neighborhoods you are in are undetectable, and cannot be influenced by any means. Additioanlly, you learn the first-listed Spellcard of the players in the neighborhood you join.

Factional Ability:

Win Condition:

Eliminate all

Incident Resolvers

, or reach the state where such is unpreventable.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Kaguya I forgot if you gave any read this day ohase that didn't have to do with claims.

It probably doesn't matter but it annoys me to no end.

Spoiler: Quotes

I remember Reisen being pretty townie on my first re-read but deviant role PM formatting + Yuuka going up from live chatting is bringing them down. If you flip town they drop to the bottom of the list
Yuuka just feels like town when I've been live chatting with her recently, though this is primarily a D3 biased read and she was flying under my radar until now
Kagerou I think would be scum by POE if you flip town but I'm wouldn't bet the game on it there. Her arguments kind of remind me of the type of arguments scum tend to use when pushing me where they use my hyper-confident playstyle and call it TMI

this thread feels like watching Kaguya trying to pry open the PoE with a crowbar

this was a jokey post but the feeling behind it is absolutely real, Kaguya kinda feels like scum forgetting to keep up appearances in a way because they are so busy with all that's already on their mind?

Put more words to this and make me feel it.

Kaguya is acting pretty suddenly in a way that's very straight to the point and focused, it reads as if she kinda bypassed some of the steps to solving that people usually need to take, notice how a lot of her takes, come out effortlessly without a lot of solving visible to the naked eye, and while that's not inherently a scum trait, some of her posts like the one in 4595 read as if she already had an idea for a case and is fitting it the best way she can to answer Yuuka rather than like, trying to play *with* Yuuka?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about with Kagerou, especially where if you read 4600 it's pretty clear 4595 was a rhetorical technique

Ok finally have time for this, I'm hoping to get the part 2 where I look over her D3 posting done later tonight.

There's a disconnect between Marisa's positions over D2 where she wants Sanae dead and her actual approach to Sanae where she's evidently treating her as town in the sense that they're collaboratively sortinging together and in posts like 3676 where it feels like she has to address stuff she knows is going to get looked over again once Sanae flips town. This is especially visible in her Sanae case in 3652 where by the look of it you'd think she'd be treating Sanae like confscum and solving for the rest of the team (Coincidentally Yuuka also pointed out this tonal disconnect in 3689 which makes me feel slightly better about her going up in my reads today)

Spoiler: Quote Wall

It was egging on the 1v1 (which the other half we can probably assume is town as well), and was assigning Ichirin scumminess for not having seen a Koishi post from a couple of hours before, which isn't actually scummy at all, so was functionally serving to pile-on/exacerbate the 1v1

Okay! I will have a look at it this evening.

Yes please
As well as the response I made to what you said to Koishi in the hood.

I think Yuuka probably needs to be re-evaluated as well.

Will do! Bye for now...

I think Koishi's 1391 looks a lot worse, especially knowing Ichirin is town

Nope, I don't see it at all! What I do see though is that both of your only scumreads last day phase are confirmed town now, and this is not a good look,

UwU

(Especially not because I called them out as being fake)

I think Koishi's 1391 looks a lot worse, especially knowing Ichirin is town

Nope, I don't see it at all! What I do see though is that both of your only scumreads last day phase are confirmed town now, and this is not a good look,

UwU

Those were my reads. They may have been wrong but they were my reads at the time

What are your reads now? How confident are you on me and Clownpiece-Chan being town?

Clownpiece pretty confident
You've dropped some, but probably below him and above the
Yuuka/Reisen/Kaguya tier

Probably something like

Aya/koishi -> mechanics
Clown
Dai
You
Kagerou
Kaguya/yuuki
Reisen

Why are you townreading Clown? And why are you scumreading Reisen?

vote-parking on Ichirin is sort of exactly

where I expect scum to be

Yuuka was on the sidelines while end-of-day yesterday went down, and that's sort of

where I'd expect scum to be

Elaborate on this?

Where

exactly

do you expect scum to be?

Also what exactly caused me to drop off? Be as precise as you can please.

Can I get a tldr of why sanae is scum since larva flipped scum?

Sanae is scum because:

- Her push on Koishi felt fake
- Her fight with Aya didn't feel TvT and Aya is confirmed
- She made 2371 which is a scum post because she already had

very confident

reads on both of us and didn't actually need the content
- We stayed her execution yesterday because she promised to self-vig, but then she didn't self vig
- Larva jumped on Sanae wagon and then jumped off in order to equalize the wagons which possibly helped in her execution being delayed
- Both of her big scumreads from day one are confirmed town now and one of her big townreads from day one flipped scum but her reaction is not to reevalutate the the game but to vote you without elaborating (i know she did say she reevaluated peoples positions after acceding aya and koichi are town but i expected more out of a townie). Also the fact that she was universally pushing only town day 1 (yeah i'm preflipping kagerou sorry not sorry) is a bad look.
- poe

Sanae is town because:

- She says she is town repeatedly
- I guess she had the same reads Clownpiece and I had early on and we're both town so maybe she was also town?
- yeah

I'm kinda busy irl till tommorrow but will say look at: Reisen, Kaguya, Yuuka, and Marisa tomorrow

Basically the same list as here, would probably swap Marisa and Kagerou

I'm sorry Sanae but if you are town your solving is really lame

Anyway I agree with Koishi and Clownpiece that we should wait for Aya and I also think we should wait for Reisen because as much as I would like to just pew pew everyone except Reisen, myself and the three conftown (I'll miss you), we don't really have enough clears for that so I would like to make sure Reisen is town before I clear her (or not).

Okay I should also note that I targeted Daiyousei with my active ability last night but I misread what it does so it's actually useless. However I actually read my PM today so hopefully next night I can do something useful. Or not! Maybe I'm just Vanilla Scarlet.

P-edit: You are so very welcome. Since we are not killing you until later, feel free to step up your solving! I may even go back to thinking you are super cool like I did back at the beginning of the game, when I called you Sanae-Sama.

This is tonal whiplash. But I don’t really know what, if anything to make of it. Can’t you two bicker in the scum PT if that’s what that is?

It's probably a combination of being bored to death of this day phase, alternating between role playing and not roleplaying, and talking to my scumread who I'm pushing as if she could be town because I really want to not be wrong so if she's town I want to find her but at the same time I'm pretty confident she's scum, that's producing the tonal whiplash.

Anyway if I were scum with Sanae, Daiyousei would've been dead eons ago and Larva would probably still have been alive.

ftr I'm not assuming that she is town. It's just that I'm finally able to give the game my full attention for the first time since the weekend and I want to explore different possibilities before we end the day.

Yeah I guess this makes sense in a scum!Sanae world. Knowing that all the non-voters were town basically meant that is Sanae was scum Larva had to change vote to let her live, since they couldn't count on non-voters. Also the Larva progression of voting Sanae and then working back into an Ichirin vote feels planned, which is more likely to happen in a scum!Sanae world than in a world where the wagons were TvT. Right? Someone sanity check me please.

Correction: I am limited to phone posting and light banter for the next twelve hours. The issue is not with me but a member of my family's health. Thankfully they are now asleep. So I am here keeping watch.

Koishi help me I'm going insane I hate deadlines I always make the wrong choice near deadlines. I should just vote Sanae right? And reevaluate if she flips town

Hmm on second look maybe it's less that there's a disconnect and more that there's a concerted effort to discredit all of Sanae's reads

Marisa being V/LA for most of D3 kinda sucks cause there's a big void

Marisa's extreme focus on me D3 is also Really Friggin Bad^TM, the only other reads she expressed this day are

My issue here is as other players go up, I'm left staring at my Yuuka read wondering why it's still so town and if I'm just insane.

Dai, please come solve with us, I KNOW there's a player in there who really wants to dig into this game and be heard by the herd, I saw it on day one well now's your chance.

While I gather up the hood, I invite you to mull over the middle section of 4297, as a starting point if nothing else.

Not a bad case.

Not but really, is this day just coming down to a 1v1 of Marisa v Kaguya?

Lord I hope not.

VOTE: Reisen Udongein Inaba

I might sheep you if Kaguya can do one (1) towny thing this day that doesn't have to do with mech.

Why is Marisa scumreading Reisen when she spent D2 thinking she's town enough to put her in her towncore?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Yuuka wanna help me flip Marisa today so I don't have to spend the rest of the game paranoid that she suddenly decided to townread me as soon as I started townreading you?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

So to be clear here.

Kaguya is slightly town reading me.
Koushi is town reading me but has doubts.

I forgot what kagerou's position on me is, I will guess they're town reading me based on older positioning. Or at the least I'm not a priority for them.

Aya is conflicted but thinks there is overlap in my role. Thinks Sanae and I had at least one scum in it based on an interaction we had.

Reisen is scum reading me.
Dai is scum reading me.
Marisa is scum reading me.

Why am I not dead?
Or at least being voted.

I'm still going to get at that review, just probably after work. There are too many interruptions that make it hard for me to really dive into all these interactions.

I want Marisa dead
Koishi wants Reisen dead
Old Kagerou wanted me dead
Aya's proxying her vote to Koishi
Reisen wants Dai
Dai wants you dead
Marisa wants Reisen/Kaguya dead

It's the kind of thing where you're on the sidelines cause everyone has A Bigger Scumread^TM they want dead

[Kaguya Houraisan]

tl;dr Aya and Koishi are conftown, do whatever they say

I am the fucking best.

I redirected all abilities that targetted Koishi to Larva.

Tenshi Hinanawi,

Tenshi Hinanawi - Girl of the Sphere of Neither Perception nor Non-Perception

, aligned with

Incident Resolvers

, was eliminated Night 1.

Spoiler: Flip

Tenshi Hinanawi

You are

Tenshi Hinanawi - Girl of the Sphere of Neither Perception nor Non-Perception

.
You are aligned with

Incident Resolver

Abilities:

Keystone "World Creation Press"

[Spellcard][Night]

- You slam a giant keystone onto the ground and shake the very core of the earth. The resulting shockwaves prevents the other players from successfully using their

[Active]

ability.
Peach Sign "Hermit's Peach of Steadfast Durability"

[Spellcard][Night]

- You consume a celestial peach that strengthens your physical resiliance. You become bulletproof for the night.

Sword of Hisou

[Active][Night]

- You can use your Sword of Hisou to gather your target's Ki and manipulate the weather around them to one of the choices below. This ability cannot be used on the same target consecutively.
* Typhoon - Delays an

[Active]

ability by a phase
* Spring Haze - Disables an

[Active]

ability for the next phase
* Drizzle - Motivates an

[Active]

ability
* Sunny - Make an

[Active]

ability resolve without any potential modifiers

Troublemaker Celestial

[Passive]

- Your arrogance and bratty nature makes others want nothing to do with you. You are immune to being neighborized.

Win Condition:

Eliminate all

Incident Causers

Eternity Larva,

Seiran - The Pale Blue Eagle Ravi

, aligned with

Incident Causers

, was eliminated Night 1.

Spoiler: Flip

Seiran

You are

Seiran - The Pale Blue Eagle Ravi

.
You are aligned with

Incident Causer

Abilities:

Bullet Sign "The Eagle Shot Its Target"

[Spellcard][Night]

- You mark the target with your Lunarian targeting device. Your actions against the marked target next night will be treated as strongwilled.
Gun Sign "Lunatic Gun"

[Spellcard][Day/Night]

- Back in the day when you were a soldier, you were supplied a gun, and you've kept it ever since. You can load the gun with one of the spellcard you have copied from your

Ex-Infiltrator

or

Dango Salesgirl

ability, and use it on the target during the phase specified by the spellcard.

Dango Salesgirl

[Active][Night]

- You visit a player and give them a Dango. Target is notified that they received a Dango. Also, you learn the first-listed Spell Card of the target.

Ex-Infiltrator

[Passive]

- You utilize a simple trick or two learned from your scouting experience. The neighborhoods you are in are undetectable, and cannot be influenced by any means. Additioanlly, you learn the first-listed Spellcard of the players in the neighborhood you join.

Factional Ability:

Win Condition:

Eliminate all

Incident Resolvers

, or reach the state where such is unpreventable.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

For the record, my slot killed Tenshi. Aya has no hood.

That last one is unexpected. I've seen them logged in without posting.
Albeit, I know that sort of observation.
1. Annoys people.
2. Isn't a valid way to read people.
3. Better left unsaid.

my other spellcard was stardust reverie which would allow me to enter into a neighborhood and if it was temporary i would make it permanent, i used it on Aya and it did nothing

[Kaguya Houraisan]

There may be irregularities with Aya's night 1 action or those targeting Aya and my slot was probably deliberately trying not to mess people up night 2.

Your slot was trying to get in the Aya/Clownpiece hood most likely except they didn't know that it closes at the end of the day so it did nothing

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Aya claimed redirection on Koishi unto to Larvae, who is scum.

Aya did claim a neighborhood with Clownpiece that should have closed at the end of day 2.
When was the neighborhood check?

N2 given that N1 was the vig spellcard

[Kaguya Houraisan]

my other spellcard was stardust reverie which would allow me to enter into a neighborhood and if it was temporary i would make it permanent, i used it on Aya and it did nothing

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Maybe clownpiece was a death godfather all along...

Ok I missed that too. I'm pretty human.

Despite me shooting myself in the foot with a twelve gauge shotgun, I think (as of my current reading) it's Kaguya and Marisa. Longshot Yuuka. Still need to read more but want to get something down.

Also, I don't see any prior notes.

Help me bus Marisa then

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Also, I don't see any prior notes.

Setup Information

• Private Topic accessibility can change at any time by various means, including a potential replace-in. I will not redact any contents from the Private Topics and all Private Topics used in the game will be released, so please be careful of what you post in the Private Topics.

hmm

Koishi did you get old Koishi's notes PT when you replaced in?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Kaguya, thoughts on me?

I didn't like the old you and the replacement hasn't changed much

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Should be in bookmarks or subscriptions if old kagerou didnt remove it manually

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Should be in bookmarks or subscriptions if old kagerou didnt remove it manually

Imaging using those functions. I can't!

I will never understand people who use egosearch instead of bookmarks/subscriptions to play games

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Where is that claim by Marisa?

Also, what exactly is your scumpool Yuuka?

If I claim I lose the ability to maybe get a guilty tonight. Is it worth it?

If not, can you claim right now if it'll be obvious after the reveal why you decided not to use the guilty generator until ELO?

It will be obvious.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

There is a very famous very old player quote from the baker here that applies...

The only innocents are bodies.

Dang, guess we gotta vote you now

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Clown dying makes sense if you figure scum thought koichi would have been protecting clown n1 so they shoot at koichi to get to clown. They just kinda confirmed koichi in the process and then had to gamble n2.

Why would they think this?

Spoiler: Old Reads order to reference

{Larva, Clown, Kaguya}
{Sanae}
~End Die for Tier~
{Tenshi}
{Kagerou*, Yuuka, Dai*}
{Marisa*, Reisen*,}
~End Giant Middle of the Pack~
{Aya*}
{Ichirin}

Now it's more like (Not for the above, but for this one, groupings are most to least town left to right)
{Clown, Kaguya, Yuuka}
{Tenshi, Larva}
{Sanae, Aya, Reisen}
{Marisa, Dai, Ichi}
~~~~~~~~
Werewolf holding a gun who will self-resolve on their choice of shoot: {Kagerou}


And I have lots of words to give tonight, it would seem. Unfortunately I will soon be phone posting, so please enjoy this rushed bundle of thoughts I can manage for the next 12 or so minutes.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

It was suggested koichi was bodyguarding a townread, just not which one and clown was like universal town read day 1.

You still need to fullclaim in case you missed it btw

[Kaguya Houraisan]

>>Is literally voting Reisen
>>Time is running out and have mentioned it several times
>>Reisen still "asks" if they need to claim...

What I WANT is a claim.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Self-targetizer counts as a semi-protecting now?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

What would be the point of that when you're ascetic

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Uh. So what exactly is the mod trying to clarify with their note?

I think the mod is saying that Kagerou-Chan's role is Marisa. Which isn't my role! Because Kagerou-Chan stole it!

Pedit: Yes, exactly! Kochiya-Sama is smart.

Ahh I didn’t even connect that her role name was your account name!

This would point to flavor name matching role name and I don't really see any way to flavor Reisen in a way that'd let her block a spellcard but not an active

[Kaguya Houraisan]

flavor name matching

role

account name

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Kaguya do you have a timeline of people that claimed roleblocked?

N1:
Aya gets Burglarized causing her Combined Watcher PT Cop Active to fail
Sanae gets Spellcard Blocked but her Active goes through
Marisa targets Dai with a Passive Disable which Dai redirects to Kagerou

N2 I don't remember anyone claiming roleblocked

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I got passive disabled N2 by Marisa though if that counts as a block

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I did misunderstand something
Something interfered with the spellcard and prevented it from activated, not with magic supremacy

So you're saying you were hit with an effect that blocks spellcards but not actives?

I think so, yes

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Thou Shalt Not Meta

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Using the spellcards with insufficient points will cause you to die after the card's activation.

Pretty sure neither of Reisens spellcards would prevent this from occuring since the spellcard would still be activated and only the target would change/the effect would get delayed while the spellcard would still be activated

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Marisa has to be the spellblocker by POE right?

1. Kaguya town
   
2. Koishi town
   
3. Aya town
   
4. Kagerou's Spellcard + Active N1 are both confirmed so there's no time for her to also spellblock
   
5. Dai's Active was confirmed N1 by redirecting the passive disable, I think she's town by play, not sure how much a spellblocker would make sense flavorwise
   
6. Yuuka knew Clownpiece was untargetable N1 by spellcard so that's one confirmed action. There's maybe a theoretical set of actions that'd let her spellblock and still have time to claim a N1 Clownpiece visit but still the Dai problem of spellblocker not making much sense
   
7. Reisen's play points to having Reisen flavor. Can't think of a way to flavor Reisen being a blocker without turning her into a full on roleblocker/alien
   
8. Marisa claiming Flandre flavor which would allow for flavorful spellcards like destroying someone's spellcards which would cause what happened to Sanae (No spellcards = Spellcard doesn't activate = Sanae still alive). Her spellcards also haven't been verified yet

I'll double check this list when it's not the middle of the night

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Flavor wise, would my character be expected to have the role she has? I'm trying to understand how you can confidently clear reisen off of flavor like this.

There's over 40 canon Youmu spellcards and I'm not that interested in going over all of them when you're conftown so I'd put this down as a "There might be an obscure spellcard that would let you do it"

Reisen's case is slightly different though since her spellcards in IN, StB, and Hisoutenku also have canon flavoring instead of just a canon name, so the design space is a lot smaller unless you're drawing from SWR (Fighting game), LoLK (Player Character and the only new spellcard is "Evil Undulation"), or ULiL (Fighting game). Those games are much less mainline though whereas IN is Reisen's "Main Game" so it's much more likely for GIF to be drawing from there

[Kaguya Houraisan]

5386 is dismissable. I cast 2 spells at night. Hood check and theft of object.

Mechanic Information

• Each spellcard can only be used once, unless mentioned otherwise.
  
• Only one spellcard can be used at a time, unless mentioned otherwise.
  
• Spellcards can be used along with Active abilities, unless mentioned otherwise.
  
• To use a spellcard, PM me as if you would use your regular ability.

Burglary Active, Master Spark Spellcard

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Whatever. Theory is that Reisen’s theory of Kaguya/Yuuka activity and scum kill along with their general inactivity is a hitigarashi scum tell.

What's a hitagarashi scumtell

[Kaguya Houraisan]

For clarity purposes I would like to know when you two, Kagiya and Dai, full claimed to each other.

Date please.

I fullclaimed in the Misty Lake ~4 hours after the Sanae flip N2, Dai claims her active after that
Dai claimed a day ability that let her check Koishi/Reisen/Yuuka around two days into D1

Rest of Dai's claims would be in thread

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Flavor wise, would my character be expected to have the role she has? I'm trying to understand how you can confidently clear reisen off of flavor like this.

There's over 40 canon Youmu spellcards and I'm not that interested in going over all of them when you're conftown so I'd put this down as a "There might be an obscure spellcard that would let you do it"

Misread this as you asking about being able to spellblock

Yes absolutely Youmu the trained Gardener and Bodyguard of Yuyuko would be expected to have the stuff you have