Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[N]

Did someone say wagon?

VOTE: Piggy

[N]

I understand N bandwagoning, he likes bandwagons, but Equinox didn't even put a silly sentance in there to make me feel better about being brought to L-2 on page 1 :(
VOTE: Equinox
Clearly a lazy band-wagoning scum looking for an easy lynch.

What makes you say I like bandwagonning? I mean, I do; but the only other game I've played with you is Reverse Mafia and I don't remember wagonning anyone for no particular reason in that game.

[N]

I'm a stalker N ;)

Really? Which games of mine have you stalked? They've been mostly newbies and micros, so I can't see why you'd have much interest in them.

I brought up the v/la as a means to end my RVS while letting things stay in RVS because I know things are going to stay in RVS even when things actually get serious. It happens. It's why I don't like RVS, because even when it obviously come to an end, new players that haven't posted yet still look to RVS to join in the conversation - so it was a way to let the other 5ish people come in without feeling the need to awkwardly stay in RVS - call my logic flawed, but when you know something is inevitable, it's best just to give in and join their side - which I get a feeling will become my lynch very soon :/

Let me get this straight: you dislike RVS; in order to end RVS you (a) jokingly call someone out for being V/LA (b) want to let it continue (c) think everyone who hasn't posted yet should join in the RVS and (d) think you'll be lynched for it?

[N]

Sorry for disappearing; I started a new job and I'm pretty exhausted. I've tried to read though the thread, and I'm about to comment on things that grabbed my attention, but I'm sure there's stuff I've missed; please point it out. (I also noticed people saying I posted elsewhere; I made a few quick phone posts before work this morning in games I'd just been prodded in (or was about to be) and am doing the same thing now for the next wave. It's a horrible way to play and I don't like making promises about content, but I'll have more time later in the week toward the weekend.)

Oh, and N, they're all wonderful ongoing games that you are in ;)

This is such a cop out. You're saying me wagonning in RVS is a town-tell and when I press for more info on where you got that idea from, you say ongoing games? How can something you've picked up from my ongoing games be a town-tell? You don't know my alignment in those games and if I try and press you too hard you can just avoid talking about ongoing games.

Well, I suppose point b should actually be "I know it's going to continue, so why bother stopping it?"

You don't think there's any way you could stop RVS? How do you think RVS ever ends if everyone just sits on their hands and waits for someone else to end it?

I'm in agreement with my other head that N looks town based on his piggy questioning.

I know this townread is "gone" now because I disappeared, but it was a pretty shit reason for a townread anyway. I was pretty much talking to her about my own meta; that's a towntell now is it? (This isn't just for Cerulean; I saw other people say similar things.)

...Huh. I didn't multi-quote anything later in the thread (or it didn't work for some reason if I did), but I will admit I started skimming when it became walls about meta. If there's something I missed, point me to it!

[N]

This is just a quick post, but I just want to check from anyone who's more experienced with Mehdi's meta than myself: does he always ask this many (seemingly) pointless questions? I've only played one game with him, and he was scum and didn't (micro 4) - but he also was a replacement, so I don't know how reliable that is. I've read (or at least skimmed if the mechanica/flavour looked interesting) other games of his where he was town and noticed a bit more of this endless questioning he's doing here.
(What I'm trying to say is I think Mehdi's endless questioning is a towntell for him, but I'm not confident on my meta-check.)

Also, where did the Piggy wagon go? Is it just that the grass is greener on other wagons?

[N]

I don't even remember anything Voided has done. But then again, I haven't been paying the best attention to this game. Right now, the only things I can remember are that Piggy did some really scummy shit early game (I can't remember anything she's done since, though, so I guess that's how she's slipped others' suspicions?), Sixty has made some horrible cases (seriously, the last time I saw a case that bad was by a cop who had a guilty result but didn't want to claim their role), Mehdi/blue-avatar/Thor had a big argument with lots of walls (I skimmed most of it), and there's too many damn hydras running around (and I can't keep them straight). Oh, and Justin Timberlake replaced in and made

more

fucking walls.

So, from the small amount of information I managed to retain, let's lynch Piggy and Sixty and the third partner can do whatever they're currently doing and it doesn't matter.

[N]

I don't understand the argument between Soul and Justin, so I'm going to ignore it. I don't have a scumread on either of you, so I think it might be two townies arguing while the mafia sit back and do nothing.

Absta's didn't-read-the-rules-properly towntell attempt on the last page looks way too over the top, so for the moment, he can be the third scum we've been looking for. (The other two being Piggy and Sixty, of course.) I was starting to think the third could be Thor, because he hadn't called me scummy yet (he always seems to - okay, in the two completed games we have together he did), but he just voted for me so that's all okay.

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

[N]

I don't understand the argument between Soul and Justin, so I'm going to ignore it. I don't have a scumread on either of you, so I think it might be two townies arguing while the mafia sit back and do nothing.

Absta's didn't-read-the-rules-properly towntell attempt on the last page looks way too over the top, so for the moment, he can be the third scum we've been looking for. (The other two being Piggy and Sixty, of course.) I was starting to think the third could be Thor, because he hadn't called me scummy yet (he always seems to - okay, in the two completed games we have together he did), but he just voted for me so that's all okay.

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

None of this is real. I feel like I can just post any of N’s posts with a disclaimer “None of this is real.” I mean come on
1. The argument isn’t hard to understand and shouldn’t be ignored.
2. The quip about both being town reads is ridiculous I don’t even understand how someone could possibly have both Soul and JT as town reads.
3. absta’s general accidental lackadaisical play reads 100% town to me. And wait who are the other two scum? Cases please (and don’t pretend like you’ve already posted them).
4. Come on, you could go a million directions with a case on Thor and you’re not even going to attempt it mainly because you know it’ll either a) get blasted apart or b) he’s your scum partner.
5. Dooon’t even pretend like you care about anything Sixty has to say and if they’re as smart as I’m going to assume they are they wouldn’t out any of their buddies.

You just proved you're not reading the thread either, so you're being pretty hypocritical here. I've made a total of 7 posts, so it's not hard to go back and look at my iso.
1. Explain the argument to me, then.
2. I've already said I had Soul as a slight townread because of Mehdi's inane questioning. I don't see any reason to have a scumread on JT at this stage, and if you do perhaps you could point it out? You hadn't even mentioned them since Equinox replaced out.
3. You quoted my post saying my other two scumreads

in this very same post

.
4. Why should I make a case on Thor when I just said I have a probable-town read on him?
5. If you don't care about what Sixty has to say, why didn't you hammer?

Your post is incredibly hypocritical and shows you're not actually reading the thread. (Not reading the thread is a null-tell, but when you're pretending you're on top of everything, it's not. Also the fact that you quoted my post 436 but clearly didn't read any of it is quite telling.)

N - I doubt very seriously that either of those players are going to drop tells for who their partners are. Neither one of those players are incompetent, and knowing that they're going to be lynched are going to be trying to spread whatever misinformation they can, if they actually take the time out to do much of anything.

This is what worries me. If they're so competent, how did they get into such a position?

I'm starting to think Sixty wouldn't make such a horrible case on a partner, so I'm not so sure about my Piggy read any more; it was all based on her early play, but she hasn't actually done anything more recently so that's all there is to go on.

[N]

Finished reading through Micro 4 properly, the reasoning behind the reads he stated were extremely weak with the logic being very paper-thin such as "X is scumhunting so I think town" "Y has town tone so I think town" his only scum-read was his partner who he bussed upon replacing in, rest of the game he didn't do all that much scumhunting, just filler-posting really. Also sometime to note is that in Micro 5 he wasn't actually mafia, was recruited cult and was recruited late game from what the posts inside Micro 4 states so this isn't really a game to use for scum-meta, with that said he stated that he thought Tim was the cult leader (cultists don't know leader) but still tried bussing him for town cred in Post #194 of the game. Can use up until D4 as town meta though; His reads have slightly more meat and logic attached to them and his questions and posts show a great more detail of thought process and effort behind them. Lastly Open 443 reads are actually considerably better than his other scum-game, a lot more effort into it but his follow up into his scum-reads and his change of reads are very unnatural, something to note; he initially town-read his partner, then turned it around and ended up pushing on him at the end - some of it is likely due to being forced to due to the open game nature but think there's a pattern of willingness to buss here. Probably need to take a look at one or two of his town games in slightly more detail tomorrow too then re-read his play this game to finish it up. Empire, you should give all of these a read - well particularly Micro 4 and Open 443.

I was in Micro 4 and I think Mehdi's play there is completely different to how it is here. It may just be that it was an early game, but he followed the crowd there whereas here he is actively asking questions and making his own reads.

well my reservation on it being a bus was that it's such a bad case surely you'd find a better reason to vote a buddy. But I thought the same in abarat so maybe not. Okay, let me go read the shinori case. (maybe)

I agree with this; I find Piggy to be incredibly scummy (actively scummy in the early game, and now her last post with actual content was #295), but the fact that Sixty made that horrible case on her just really makes me doubt they're buddies.

Your post is incredibly hypocritical and shows you're not actually reading the thread. (Not reading the thread is a null-tell, but when you're pretending you're on top of everything, it's not. Also the fact that you quoted my post 436 but clearly didn't read any of it is quite telling.)

This is absolutely ridiculous but if you want to say I'm scummy then just go ahead and say it. Build a case on it. Do something.

Lol.

Okay, I think you're scummy. Also, what is your case on me? If you're going to call that shit in #519 a case, you're worse as scum than Sixty.

VOTE: Jesse

[N]

her last post with actual content was #295

[N]

If you’re going to say someone’s not reading the thread go out and prove it. If you can’t, don’t say it. It just makes you look dumb.

You didn't read the entirity of my post (which you quoted), so I don't think it's such a great leap of logic to assume you're not reading anything else either.

Same goes to throwing the word hypocritical around. If you’re going to use it, prove it. Don’t be a lame-Empking knock-off.

I didn't just say "you're hypocritical" with nothing else, and you saying that again proves you're not reading (or are cherrypicking parts of) my entire posts; I said "this thing you did is hypocritical."

Tell me exactly what you don’t understand about the Soul/JT argument and I’d be happy to inform you of whatever link you’re missing.

I'm not understanding why they're making such a big deal out of nothing, or how it started. I understand you don't actually care, because two townies fighting can only ever be good for you.

I’m missing how not having a scum read automatically makes someone a town read. That usually makes them a null read in my book (way to try to throw it back on me though. That’s really fun for players who are flailing).

Wait a minute... that's my point! I said I didn't have a scumread on either Soul or JT and you asked me why I thought they were both town.

Me quoting your “scum reads” and asking “And wait who are your other two scum?” is a pretty sarcastic way of me wondering how you could have possibly gotten there since you know, usually reads have good solid reasonings behind them.

Thanks for moving the goalposts here; they were so getting in the way. How was I supposed to interpret you saying I didn't have any scumreads as you wanting more information about why they were my scumreads?

I don’t believe your read on Thor is genuine.

So you think I actually have a scumread on Thor and am just hiding it? What?

And I said legitimately nothing about how I felt about what Sixty had to say. I’d like to know how you got this:

5. If you don't care about what Sixty has to say, why didn't you hammer?

out of this:

5. Dooon’t even pretend like you care about anything Sixty has to say and if they’re as smart as I’m going to assume they are they wouldn’t out any of their buddies.

But actually like I’m genuinely interested. Cause that was a really funny leap of logic. And you can’t follow along then just say you can’t and drop it. If you can’t understand that’s just my problem but if you don’t stop talking then its just everyone’s problem.

I took "Don't pretend you care about what Sixty has to say" as you saying I should hammer. What were you saying there then? Looking at it again after you've said that's not what you mean, the only other way I can think of to interpret it is you thought Sixty was town.

[N]

N: I’m honestly over it.

Well, that's convenient.

[N]

If you’re going to say someone’s not reading the thread go out and prove it.

You didn't read the entirity of my post (which you quoted), so I don't think it's such a great leap of logic to assume you're not reading anything else either.

In post 641, Faraday (who?) wrote:

For some reason I was thinking N had two votes on him.

Well, that's convenient.

I just don’t feel like anything you’re saying leads to a progressive discussion.

Well, obviously I disagree. I personally think that what I have to say is quite important, especially since it has made you slip up a few times already. The fact that you want to cut off any discussion with me also points to the fact that you're worried you'll let something else slip.

I would like you to at least respond to this bit:

And I said legitimately nothing about how I felt about what Sixty had to say. I’d like to know how you got this:

5. If you don't care about what Sixty has to say, why didn't you hammer?

out of this:

5. Dooon’t even pretend like you care about anything Sixty has to say and if they’re as smart as I’m going to assume they are they wouldn’t out any of their buddies.

But actually like I’m genuinely interested. Cause that was a really funny leap of logic. And you can’t follow along then just say you can’t and drop it. If you can’t understand that’s just my problem but if you don’t stop talking then its just everyone’s problem.

I took "Don't pretend you care about what Sixty has to say" as you saying I should hammer. What were you saying there then? Looking at it again after you've said that's not what you mean, the only other way I can think of to interpret it is you thought Sixty was town.

[N]

I'm not sure what to make of the Soul/Thor argument. I think at this stage both of you are just repeating yourself because you don't want to back down.

Same with Cerulean/Deadpool, actually, although I'm not as convinced these two are both town. I had a scumread on absta before, and SAD saying he understands how several people read absta as scum doesn't help that. Tammy's reluctance to out her reads doesn't seem overtly scummy to me; yeah, it's weird, but I don't see why she would be less likely to conform as scum than town.

[N]

Same with Cerulean/Deadpool, actually, although I'm not as convinced these two are both town. I had a scumread on absta before, and SAD saying he understands how several people read absta as scum doesn't help that. Tammy's reluctance to out her reads doesn't seem overtly scummy to me; yeah, it's weird, but I don't see why she would be less likely to conform as scum than town.

It had nothing to do with being reluctant to out reads, and everything to do with determining Arthur's motivation.

Did you really expect him to tell you why he wanted your reads before you'd actually given them?

[N]

Town
Ceru
Dead
Jesse
JT
N

Scum
Piggy
Thor

Is this a sliding scale, or have you just grouped everyone as town or scum?

[N]

JT's posts really confuse me. The logic makes sense, but the conclusions are completely different than what I would have reached, especially in regards to Absta. Timberlake, I think you're town, but I also think your opinions are wrong, and that conflicts me. You keep going on about Absta's towntells, but I personally think they're way too over the top and look fake to me; you think Mehdi's meta points towards him being scum, I think it actually matches his town games more appropriately; you've said the Tammy/Arthur argument is likely two townies being stubborn, I've said the same thing about Soul/Thor. I also don't understand how you're voting for Soul, but at the same time talking to them like they're town.
I haven't looked into your meta at all, but the amount of effort you're putting in should be a towntell, but I just don't understand some of your conclusions.

I would like to stay on Jesse at least until he responds to some stuff, but the Deadpool wagon is looking pretty inviting right now. DECISIONS

[N]

I went through Q+ing a few posts since my last one and find Piggy on L-1? I'm not sure what to make of this development. As I've said throughout the game, she's been independently very scummy but I'm not so sure about her being partners with Sixty. I don't understand how, if Sixty is much a scum mastermind that she made a case against a buddy on page 3 or 4 or whenever it was ridiculously early, why did she make such an obviously scum hammer day 1?

Spoiler: Deadpool's 816

@Deadpool - what do you, coming from 20+ games of experience, think of Tammy calling herself a waffle queen and how does that feed into your current read there?

She's town bro.

Like, super town.

Sorry Tammy :/ I mean, I was super exhausted yesterday, the game was so fucking dense, and somehow I did not expect so many walls <_< I really needed to get a read on you, and you know that's easiest to do :p I literarly was bullshitting reads, and that catchup I did was pathetic at best seeing I was skimming everything fast. And there are different levels of mad that you get that indicate whether you're town or not.

The actual intention started harmless because I really was lost and wanted your thoughts. But then decided push it instead when you refused to answer. And you towntold like super hard *shrug* (tbh it was like déjà vu from that game you were Tuon).

Mehdi is also town for 750. Pretty confident in that, don't really see it coming out of a scum.

Anyways, I'll try to get a stronger read on everybody else by today. Thor still seems town from what I remember (though his resent stuff made me pause, so I'll take a look at that), and Piggy is still scummy in my mind. F-16 should also be here today to finish his reread and post thoughts.

~Landau, Luckman, and Lake - Agent

This entire post is horrible. What are you trying to prove?

I took "Don't pretend you care about what Sixty has to say" as you saying I should hammer. What were you saying there then? Looking at it again after you've said that's not what you mean, the only other way I can think of to interpret it is you thought Sixty was town.

I really don't know where you made that leap. I think its pretty clear that I meant you were being disingenuous about caring what anyone else had to say and you were just biding your time to hammer.

Sooo... you did still think Sixty was town at that stage? If you're going to say that I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, you could perhaps point out what you actually meant to say? That would be helpful. I'm not the only one that thought this is what you were trying to say:

The only real time that Jesse starts to show slight suspicion of Sixty is in Post 519 after their hammer and wonderful plan. He states that he's leaning scummy on them even though there'd been a major case built on them that they ignored. He didn't mention any of that. And even though it was clear by that point that Sixty was scum, he kept throwing suspicion out to other people, ie N and Soul, and even me in the "if Cerulean were a town player" as if it weren't anything but evident I was.

He then says he doesn't mind hammering them, but votes N instead.

[N]

I mean you've got a low threshold for 'scum mastermind' if it involves bussing on page 4 or something.

I guess I misunderstood 840 then.

Got through Sixtys ISO too. Still undecided on what her push on Piggy meant,

initial gut reading was that she would've push on partner with such a bad case but looking back at it the fact that her vote in Post 79 put Piggy to L-1 might be due to thinking that Piggy was dead weight already and attempting to get some cred out of it

. Interaction with Cerulean and Absta make them even more obvtown. Got one more thing to add here* but want to wait for something first.

Praying the game is over...

This reads pretty fake. I don't know whether it's because he knows it is or because he knows it's not, though.

N wouldn’t attempt to bus and distance, he just threw out a one liner and then let it drop. That’s a good way of dropping your scum partner’s name to potentially cover your ass later without doing any damage.

This is you being hypocritical again (you said you wanted me to point that out every time).

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

I wouldn’t mind hammering Sixty but right now I’d rather

Vote: N

Totally different!

N, since I see you're around, do us a solid and tell us if you're Piggy's partner please. Thanks in advance.

~Empire.

Yeah, I am. Sad days.

[N]

Reg, I can't tell if you're serious or not right not.

[N]

Why would I make the rest of that post if I was serious about the last bit?

[N]

Oh wait you’re going to try it! The first quote you posted was me pointing out that you threw out a one liner about why Thor could potentially maybe possibly be scum but maybe not. Your quote is saying you’re holding the hammer because you want them to try and out their scum buddies (which I called fake). Then my second quote is me saying hammering Sixty sounds okay but I’d rather pursue N.

Legitimately none of those have to do/contradict each other.

No, this is bullshit. How is saying I have a townread on Thor attempting to "bus and distance"?

[N]

Oh wait you’re going to try it! The first quote you posted was me pointing out that you threw out a one liner about why Thor could potentially maybe possibly be scum but maybe not. Your quote is saying you’re holding the hammer because you want them to try and out their scum buddies (which I called fake). Then my second quote is me saying hammering Sixty sounds okay but I’d rather pursue N.

Legitimately none of those have to do/contradict each other.

No, this is bullshit. How is saying I have a townread on Thor attempting to "bus and distance"?

Oh my gosh. I am literally trying so hard to not virtually throw up all over you. Let me try to put this as nicely as possible.

I NEVER SAID THAT YOU ******* ****** ***** ** ****

I mean seriously?! What is wrong with you and JT?! Can you guys not READ?!

N wouldn’t attempt to bus and distance, he just threw out a one liner and then let it drop. That’s a good way of dropping your scum partner’s name to potentially cover your ass later without doing any damage.

This is you being hypocritical again (you said you wanted me to point that out every time).

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

I wouldn’t mind hammering Sixty but right now I’d rather

Vote: N

Totally different!

Oh wait you’re going to try it! The first quote you posted was me pointing out that you threw out a one liner about why Thor could potentially maybe possibly be scum but maybe not. Your quote is saying you’re holding the hammer because you want them to try and out their scum buddies (which I called fake). Then my second quote is me saying hammering Sixty sounds okay but I’d rather pursue N.

Legitimately none of those have to do/contradict each other.

VOTE: Jesse

[N]

Also, why 2 of those people. Who of them are most likely?

Prob best way to go is to lynch N imo. He can be partnered with any of Thor or Jess, but it doesn't really matter. I trust Faraday when he says that scum prob wouldn't be voting each other yesterday when Thor/Jess were voting each other and there was no way for them to know that a Piggy lynch would've risen up, so that only leaves N.

In one breath, you say that you don't think the scumteam would vote for each other; in the next you say you think I'm scum with Jesse. Where has my vote been for the past however long?

VOTE: Jesse

lol I'm sorry that you both can't read and reason properly but that's not my issue.

Are you seriously going to continue with this? Post 912, you said "N wouldn’t attempt to bus and distance, he just threw out a one liner and then let it drop." Post 922, I thought you were referring to the fact that I claimed intent to hammer Sixty, but in post 935, you said you were actually talking about what I said about Thor (that I had a townread on him). So if "N wouldn’t attempt to bus and distance, he just threw out a one liner and then let it drop" was referring to Thor, how is 936 invalid? How is it not what you said?
(Hint: you thought I was attempting to bus and distance Thor is exactly what you said.)

AFAICT N thinks you're accusing him of bussing/distancing Thor and you're saying he wouldn't? Do I have the gist right? Is there anything more to it?

I mean no you don't really have the gist of it right but hey, neither of you do so that's at least consistent!

Either you're refusing to explain yourself to a townread or you have a scumread on JT and think we're partners. Do you have a scumread on JT? No one else does; you should probably explain it.

[N]

Okay, I know that was supposed to clear stuff up, Jesse; bit it makes it worse. What's the rest of that quote (912) about if not accusing me of bussing and distancing Thor?

Also, you never answered the question of how you got a scumread on JT. (Or, if you don't, why you were being intentionally obtuse to someone you think town.)

[N]

Jesse, what is your read of JT? I know you've read the posts I asked this in.

[N]

Cerul and Deadpool are as good as modconfirmed town, regardless of how much wtf it is that this game is still going it's neither of these guys being scum. I'll explain both reads in a massive amount of detail if you guys want.

I can understand a Cerulean town-read, but I would like you to explain how Deadpool is confirmed town.

Fun fact: There is exactly 4 times "N" shows up in the puppy's ISO. 3 of those are when it appears in a quote by someone else (and she's not responding to that particular part).

The 4th is as useless, when she is mentions him when talking about someone else [Piggy]:

She starts with Voidedmafia and Thor, ignores N and Equinox, mentions absta and does nothing about it, and we are scummy in some undisclosed form. Why those four players in particular?

Fun fact 2.0: Guess who also ignores N?

How did you search for my name in Sixty's iso? This is the thing I find annoying about my short name: just searching for "n" comes up with 3233 matches. Did you search for it with spaces on either side? That works, I guess.

But you should also check how much other people mentioned me? I was pretty bust with rl stuff for most of day 1, so I think most people barely mentioned me. Searching for " N " in absta's iso comes up with 0 matches, for instance, as does Equinox, and Voided only mentions me in one post. (I chose to search them because they were also only here for day 1. I can't be bothered figuring out where day 1 stops for other people.)

Your play right now looks like you're trying to distract from the Jesse wagon.

[N]

Your play right now looks like you're trying to distract from the Jesse wagon.

As opposed to the Thor wagon?

Vote Count

• JesseSheffield (2)
  : N Thor665
  
• N (1)
  : JesseSheffield
  
• Thor665 (1)
  : Soul2277
  
• Not voting:
  Justin Timberlake Cerulean Deadpool

Deadline: Mon 3 Dec, 10:37 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-12-03 10:37:00)

)

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

It's hardly a wagon if there's only 1 vote. Also, Deadpool's trying to distract

onto

the Thor wagon. He doesn't care which of Thor or I are voted for, as long as it's not you.

[N]

It's hardly a wagon if there's only 1 vote. Also, Deadpool's trying to distract onto the Thor wagon. He doesn't care which of Thor or I are voted for, as long as it's not you.

Umm, no :?

I think I made it pretty obv that I want you lynched?

(Also what is so wrong about fucking trying to sway a lynch the way you think scum lies again?)

PS: Very good. As long as Jess isn't voted I'm happy. You wanna know why?

Here's the shocker:

Spoiler:

BECAUSE I THINK HE'S FUCKING TOWN

If you don't think Thor is scum, why are you posting things like 1055, 1056 and 1058?

N shows up. New job, understandable. What the problem now is that he is continuing his questioning of Piggy and that discussion had long passed. There was so much interesting stuff that happenned since N had left the thread and there are no comments about any of them. He has time to pick up on then-irrelevant stuff like Piggy and ignores the new developments between Cerulean, Jesse, and Soul.

My questions of Piggy were not irrelevant. I thought she was faking her read of me and wanted better reasons (which she never gave).

[N]

Ns town read on Thor for 'voting him' is extremely odd, not something I'd ever consider a town-tell especially since it's based of just two games - did just go hunting for them to see if Thor was actually town in both games and he was - it's Reserve Rudex and Political Corruption if anyone's interested.

Now that we're both dead in it, I can point out that he thought I was scummy in Newbie 1288 too. So there was actually a little bit more to my read than two games we'd been in together.

[N]

Ns town read on Thor for 'voting him' is extremely odd, not something I'd ever consider a town-tell especially since it's based of just two games - did just go hunting for them to see if Thor was actually town in both games and he was - it's Reserve Rudex and Political Corruption if anyone's interested.

Now that we're both dead in it, I can point out that he thought I was scummy in Newbie 1288 too. So there was actually a little bit more to my read than two games we'd been in together.

Actually, that game has not completely ended. (another damn loss for me...)

And if we're talking about possible pairings, have a look at Jesse and Deadpool/absta. Jesse spent a lot of time early in the game soft-defending Absta, until Absta came in and said "Wtf is your problem? Stop defaming me." Even after that, the only thing Jesse actually addressed Absta with was a generic "Can you explain a lot more in depth your reads?"
After Deadpool replaced in, Jesse has only addressed him is in general futile chatter. First thing Deadpool says about Jesse is "Jesse reads as somewhat scum." and makes a small case against him, before suddenly (with no mentions of him in between) "Jesse reads genuine :/" and telling him "I already said you read town" and then that last bit of chain-sawing on me and Thor (I hope I'm using the right buzzword here).
I know Sixty listed them both in the never lynch list, but thinking about Sixty's play, I think she'd either list both of their buddies, or neither.

[N]

Phone posting,but the majority of that case seems to be based on How I'm playing differently than in micro 4. That was my first game,so of course I'm different. I actually think maestro (who was in that game) said a similar thing about me being different in micro 50 (or newbie 1286; I don't remember).

[N]

Not really. Only about the first 1/3 or so of the case is on your meta. And it's not the type of the thing I'd expect you to evolve into (when is more aggression and seriousness something you just evolve into having?)

Now I'm on a computer, I can reply better. It's definetaly more than 1/3 about my meta - you said I was more jokey in Open 450 than this game, which I can't believe; I was so damn angry that game due to the quickhammer.

There are some bits where you address things I've said this game, but I'm not sure if you want a response to those (or how I could respond other than "nope, you're wrong").

I haven't got around to reading the Thor case yet. Is it intended for everyone to read, or just JT? I think Regfan is the only one with a big enough attention span to go through all of that.

[N]

I really think I need a day or two to just process everything and really want to hear from Jesse in the meantime as well as more from N - particularly about his thoughts on my reasoning behind Deadpool being town since him continuing to push and suggest that's what he thinks is the team while avoiding the reasoning makes little sense since he asked for it.

Sorry, I keep putting it off. A lot of it seemed to be 'this is an obvious towntell', which I disagree with, but it's hard to argue opinions. If you want me to respond to it, there's probably going to a few times all I can say is "I disagree" and not much else.

[N]

Here's why Deadpool is town:

- Abstas jump on Equinox in Post 25 and subsequent unvote in Post 28 with the reasoning explained in Post 48, Post 52 and Post 54 all read as a gambit and move that makes sense for him to do as town, he was attempting to use the situation to get reactions and reads and the manner of the unvote with the reasoning shows that. I don't think he'd have thought to do that or followed through with it as scum as it just throws him into the spotlight and allows people to attack him for 'unvoting and not voting anyone else' in the early stages of the game.

I don't see why this is more likely to have come from town than scum. I feel like it might have been designed to try and get Equinox on-side (and while it didn't work on her directly, it's worked on you, her replacement). If he had in fact done it to get reactions and gauge alignments, why did he not vote for anyone until his fence-sitting Voided vote in 142/147, which he sat onto until the lynch?

- Abstas replace out in Post 545 and Post 547 and Post 558 is confirmed not to be him having a lack of time for the as he instantly /inned for another game which means that the only reasoning for his replace out can be due to him not being motivated to continue the game or being spoiled or at least thinking his integrity in the game was compromised. The phrasing of "I MIGHT HAVE TO replace out, let me think on it" points heavily against him just being unmotivated to continue and I don't think he's a big enough cunt to replace out for the sole reason that a partner was lynched so that leaves only one real possibility. And that possibility is that he was compromised which cannot happen if he's scum which makes him essentially conftown.

I disagree. (I don't think that Sixty was lynched was the

sole

reason; in fact it read more to me as him being de-motivated about the game. Sixty hadn't even actually been lynched at that stage, but he probably knew he was going to end up prod-dodging the rest of the game and get no enjoyment out of it. It's a null-tell.

- Sixtys vote on Absta in Post 63 later explained in Post 134 as them attempting to see who would switch wagons and get reactions and reads based around that isn't something I see happening towards a partner. Abstas response towards it in Post 148 of "This is also a nicer way of saying "we were trying to misslynch absta"." isn't what scum say to a partner as well. Entire interaction and situation points heavily towards him being town from it.

It's strange that you say this, but unless I'm mistaken, you were on the Piggy lynching wagon, whom I had said similar things about. Sixty's reasoning there doesn't sound that dissimilar than what Thor said about his vote on me; if you're saying Thor and I could be buddies, I don't see the difference here.

- Deadpools attitude and interaction with Tammy when replacing in of attacking her and pressuring her for reads is something that I can very much understand the motivation behind, while I don't think he went about it the best way as it just lead towards stubbornness between the two I don't think he'd attempt to pit himself against the most widely considered town slot in the game as scum there. Him stating that he told F-16 to hold of reading the thread while they wait for Piggys flip in Post 939 is very very very understandable as town. The line of 'if someone is trolling and prolonging this it's not cool' is what I was thinking and is incredibly genuine. I also think his image in Post 993 is a relatively decent town tell too.

I disagree. Everyone half-celebrated, thinking the game was over, on Piggy's lynch. To not pretend to think the game was over would have been a scumclaim (by anyone). 993 is a post by Thor, but Deadpool posted images in 895 and 903; which one did you mean to refer to?

[N]

Huh. That didn't take as long as I thought it would; I should have done it earlier.

[N]

N, RE Post 1216 I'll respond first paragraph downwards
1) I don't really find 'buddying' to be a legitimate scum-tell, I don't think scums attempt at game start would be getting on the good side of someone by voting them and then unvoting them. The whole thing as town makes a lot of flowing sense. As scum it makes little. As for reactions / reads that he got; He did get one, on Equinox.
2) His tone and comments in his prior replace out posts don't read as him just being 'demotivated' the 'I won't post anymore' and 'I need to think about replacing out, okay yeah I will' ect. doesn't resemble that at all. Plus I think his consideration of replacing out would happen in the scum QT, not in-thread, all up this is a fairly massive town-tell.
3) The difference between Tierce/Piggy and Tierce/Absta is that Tierce joined the Piggy wagon late and the case looked like bussing partner for town cred whereas she was on Absta early so it can't be a 'scum thinking partners lynch is inevitable' reasoning at all. And while I think Thor/You are possible I don't think it's the case since I'm leaning towards him and to a lesser degree yourself being town.
4) Not everyone did. Soul didn't and it's one of the biggest things that are making me lean scum on them and as for the image post I meant 903.

(I spaced this so it was easier to reply to)
1) Why don't you think scum are more likely to buddy? I've caught scum trying to buddy me before (prof. guppy mini 1372, I think) I'll admit absta's vote/unvote thing was a strange way of doing it, and it's by no means the scummiest thing he's done; I was just giving an alternate explanation to how you perceived it.
2) You don't think scum can be demotivated? I've read threads in MD about 'alignment fatigue', and heard that being scum takes a lot more effort than being town. It seems a lot of the tells you find revolve around people saying things in thread, rather than the scum QT.
3) I don't remember Tierce staying on the Absta wagon for very long, nor her making a wall-case on him, so they're not similar. Also, Piggy actually flipped town, so if your rule was 'Sixty only busses one partner', then where should I be looking?
4) I actually thought Soul did. I guess I read 902 differently the first time around, but you're right: they didn't celebrate. I read it more like a light-hearted question, like they were hoping it was over but didn't want to count chickens before they hatched, but I take your point.

Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him, I'm not strongly against his lynch, but seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo. Also, if everyone else is convinced his only possible partner is me...well, then it's a dumb lynch unless you actually buy Oversoul's case on me - and no one should.

Did Thor just call me Nacho? I guess that's probably a nice thing.

N's 773, he provides no opinions. He isn't sure what to make of Soul/Thor argument. I get the feeling N is sitting on the fringes for the entire game, avoiding arguments, sitting back, doing nothing.

I offered no opinions... except for I thought the Soul/Thor argument was town/town?

From most scummiest to least:

Jesse
N
Thor
Oversoul
JT
Cerulean

Wait, you think Jesse's the scummiest? Earlier, you were yelling at me that you had a townread on them and that I was scum for thinking him scum. What changed?

[N]

Are you delibratly misrepping what I'm saying?

I, Ser Arthur Dayne, , thought Jess is town.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon, , thinks Jess is scum.

How hard can this be? :neutral:

So, you, Ser Arthur Dayne, , thought that I was scummy for calling Jesse scum because you had a townread on him.

Meanwhile, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, , who is your hydra partner, has stated that he thinks Jesse was the scummiest player.

If you, Ser Arthur Dayne, [playing a guitar solo in a storm], are town, you would see this contradiction. In this hypothetical where you are town, you know that F-16_Fighting_Falcon, [an aeroplane], who has the same alignment as you also thinks Jesse is scummy, and so you would know that it is possible for someone with a town role to have suspicions of Jesse.

[N]

If you, Ser Arthur Dayne, [playing a guitar solo in a storm], are town, you would see this contradiction. In this hypothetical where you are town, you know that F-16_Fighting_Falcon, [an aeroplane], who has the same alignment as you also thinks Jesse is scummy, and so you would know that it is possible for someone with a town role to have suspicions of Jesse.

:? Were did I say town people can't have suspicion of Jess?

Please show me that. It's like a game of find that egg thing they do on Easter.

...Well, expect this time, there is no eggs but have fun all the same!

Thor already quoted one post of you calling me scum for calling Jesse scum, but here's another:

It's hardly a wagon if there's only 1 vote. Also, Deadpool's trying to distract onto the Thor wagon. He doesn't care which of Thor or I are voted for, as long as it's not you.

Umm, no :?

I think I made it pretty obv that I want you lynched?

(Also what is so wrong about fucking trying to sway a lynch the way you think scum lies again?)

PS: Very good. As long as Jess isn't voted I'm happy. You wanna know why?

Here's the shocker:

Spoiler:

BECAUSE I THINK HE'S FUCKING TOWN

[N]

(PS N you're not going to skip over the shit I said above like you didn't see it or come in the thread 2 days later and pretend you didn't see it. I want to seriously see where I said that. Kthx.)

When have I done this? Your turn to back up your claims.

[N]

N, RE Post 1293 1. I don't find buddying to be a scum-tell, that's why. You have players that suck up to others as both alignments and you have players that avoiding doing such, it's very rare that someone buddies as scum but not as town or as town and not as scum. So really I think it's probably one of the worst scum-tells thrown around. 2. Not finding the manner of his replace out as him being demotivated but we're going in circles over this point. And I think peoples actions here vs likelihood of it happening in the qt is a big thing, I remember being scum inside a QT in Faradays game and Slaxxs game and pretty much used it as a big communication arena and there'd be a lot of things I could have said in-thread but preferred to or opted to post it inside the QT there and think scum here are likely to do the same. 3. You've just agreed with me here.. I said that her interaction with absta and with piggy weren't similar. And it's not 'Sixty busses one partner' it was her push on Piggy looked like an attempt to grab town-cred given how late she was on the wagon.

This is what I meant when I said I didn't have much to argue with; your townread on him is all gut that can't be argued with.

[N]

JT, Deadpool posted another image. He must be town!

(PS N you're not going to skip over the shit I said above like you didn't see it or come in the thread 2 days later and pretend you didn't see it. I want to seriously see where I said that. Kthx.)

When have I done this? Your turn to back up your claims.

It's pretty hypocritical that you accuse me of pretending I don't see something, then ignoring me when I ask you for proof of this.

[N]

(PS N you're not going to skip over the shit I said above like you didn't see it or come in the thread 2 days later and pretend you didn't see it. I want to seriously see where I said that. Kthx.)

When have I done this? Your turn to back up your claims.

It's pretty hypocritical that you accuse me of pretending I don't see something, then ignoring me when I ask you for proof of this.

Faraday actually posted Post 1394, he likes to pretend to be me. Who can blame him though. But yeah, I'm not comfortable with an N vote or any vote at the moment, was growing more and more towards voting Soul but Oversouls "We should look for whatever absta bumped across" is very much what I'm used to re; Oversoul as town so need to step back and look at it again plus I want more Oversoul and replacement posting.

Cerulean, please don't tell me you guys are really still harbouring suspicion towards Deadpool. There's a lot in this game I'm uncertain about but them and you guys as town is one of the things that I'd bank on at this point. Really need to see your guys thoughts and reads soon

Pedit: Faraday, you're a cunt.

You guys have been practising your good cop/bad cop routine, haven't you?

What do you think of silmer's replace out? You saw absta's as a towntell, and the two were pretty similar, so do you think slimer's replace out was a towntell too?

[N]

For whoever it was that was complaining I don't have any scum meta:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23212 - just ended

You guys have been practising your good cop/bad cop routine, haven't you? What do you think of silmer's replace out? You saw absta's as a towntell, and the two were pretty similar, so do you think slimer's replace out was a towntell too?

I hope that makes me the good cop then. And I'm in two minds about Slimers replace out; it's not in the same boat as absta in that abstas replace out looks like he was spoilered and Slimers is just him not being bothered to read the thread and being lazy. But I took a look around and Deadpools point of Slimer being less inclined to replace out so easily as scum might hold some weight, Faraday doesn't agree with me on that though, he seems to think Slimer might find actually getting a scum role to be too much work at the moment given his real life situation (His sig was something about him having his heart broken a few days ago from memory).

You're the only one suggesting absta replaced out because he was spoilered. I'm inclined to believe it was lack of motivation for a game that was moving as fast as this one does (which is what happened with slimer).

[N]

(PS N you're not going to skip over the shit I said above like you didn't see it or come in the thread 2 days later and pretend you didn't see it. I want to seriously see where I said that. Kthx.)

When have I done this? Your turn to back up your claims.

It's pretty hypocritical that you accuse me of pretending I don't see something, then ignoring me when I ask you for proof of this.

Arthur, either answer the fucking question or admit you're making shit up.

[N]

(PS N you're not going to skip over the shit I said above like you didn't see it or come in the thread 2 days later and pretend you didn't see it. I want to seriously see where I said that. Kthx.)

When have I done this? Your turn to back up your claims.

It's pretty hypocritical that you accuse me of pretending I don't see something, then ignoring me when I ask you for proof of this.

Arthur, either answer the fucking question or admit you're making shit up.

When did I accuse you of pretending not to have seen something?

Please point that out kthx.

Seriously? It took this long for you to answer, and when you did answer it was just a denial? What the hell is the quote in the middle, if not accusing me of pretending not to see something? That's the entirety of the post; you thought that bit was so important to say that you gave it its own post. It's not just a general statement; you're singling me out and accusing me.

Just so we're clear what you need to respond to in your next post:
1) Why did you make this post if it's not accusatory?
2) Why did it take you so long to answer?
3) Where else have you "used a similar phrase"?

Just me?

Yes.

I think I've used a similar phrase like that countless times *shrug* It doesn't mean I'm accusing them of overlooking things, it means I in particular do not want them to overlook what I said previously.

[N]

Faraday, you're the bad cop and I don't want to listen to you.

[N]

Hurm, I also wanted to link to some game that I know exists where we sat around in the DeadQT talking about how I read him like that, but I can't find it.
Whatevs. It exists.

I think you're talking about Newbie 1288, but that talk was cut short by noctis_nox being terrible.

OKAY BUT REGFAN'S AUSTRALIAN. (In an alignment indicative way)

Okay, but how does that rate on the sexiness scale with and Irish accent? Just wondering.

Spoiler:

A man, fresh off the plane at Sydney airport, is trying to negotiate Australian customs. Finally, when it's his turn to get his passport stamped, the customs officer starts rattling off the usual questions:
C.O. - How long do you intend to stay?
Man - 1 week.
C.O. - What is the nature of this trip?
Man - Business.
C.O. - Do you have any past criminal convictions?
Man - I didn't think we still needed to!

That aside your question offends me, Empire. It doesn't rate. Kinda. Unless it's an Aussie woman.

Oh, I get it: Britain used to send out Irish people to settle Australia because they stole small things like a loaf of bread! So Irish people still think they have to break the law to get into Australia!

[N]

I think you're talking about Newbie 1288

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/PjYNnvyYpgc if anyone cares.

[N]

What bothers me, us, is the way that both jesse and N behaved after piggy's lynch. Jesse said he hoped there was no tomorrow or something but then why Post 912? And likewise with N why Post 922?

When I made that post, everyone else had already said they weren't partners with Piggy. I don't see what's so weird about it? Unless you mean that last bit, where I said I was Piggy's partner (I thought that was obviously a joke)?

And, to those saying I played a good scum game in that newbie: thanks. I don't know about the whole playerlist being incompetent, though; all the actual newbies had either been killed or replaced by the start of night 2.

[N]

N - how proactive would you say you've been in this game in narrowing down who the scum are? There's a very good chance you'll be lynched today. What are your thoughts on that?

Obviously I can't say for sure, but I like to think I'm pretty confident that the scumteam is Jesse/CES and Deadpool. CES's posts after replacing in are pretty similar to slimer's, but because he's got more experience that's being passed off as CES being CES. And Deadpool has decided the best way to appear town is to ignore all questions asked of him and just repeat the phrase "have we lynched N yet?"

...Actually, I don't think that's really answering your question. I don't know if I've been particularly proactive; more reactive. My suspicions of both Jesse and Deadpool were aroused first when they accused me of being scum for (if I may say so) shitty reasons. I was suspicious of Sixty after their shitty case on Piggy. Neither Jesse nor Deadpool wished to engage me after I called them out - Jesse at least said he didn't like walls, whereas Arthur has completely ignored me.

As for my thoughts on being lynched: I'd rather I wasn't. Tomorrow's lylo.

[N]

. I was suspicious of Sixty after their shitty case on Piggy.

If you were suspicious of sixty after their shitty case on piggy, why is the very first time you mentioned sixty, and that, in Post 436 AFTER they scum claimed with the hammer? You didn't say anything before that, you just kept focusing on piggy. The only other people you mentioned was responding to my town read of you and to give a town read to soul.

Good point... I

was

thinking it, but I can't prove that.

All I can say is that I was barely around day 1, so (I hope) it's understandable that I didn't want to bring up things people had already discussed ten pages afterwards just to say "I also think this". I think I did say a bit later that although I found Piggy independently scummy, I doubted she and Sixty were partners - not sure if that was before or after Sixty's actual flip.

[N]

Okay, I had to have a look through my own iso to remember what I was thinking. As far as I can remember, I had scumreads on both Sixty and Piggy and hadn't really thought about searching for teams yet when I made 282. After that, I thought about actually likely teams, and realised how unlikely Sixty/Piggy was. But I was still conflicted, because Piggy had actually been scummy throughout the game, and I thought she was more likely scum than Sixty at that stage.

[N]

I was surprised he was voting for me specifically (but he gave no reasons, so how could I argue more than I did?), but not that he wasn't voting for Sixty (who was already at L-1 and hadn't actually said anything d2 - as I said at the time, I wanted Sixty to post something).

Why are you pushing this? If you think I'm scum, say so and stop pussyfooting around asking me why I didn't post everything I ever thinking ever (answer: I was short on time and had to pick my battles). If you think I'm town, what are you trying to prove?

[N]

Oh, I thought Thor's vote on me was later than that. It still doesn't change that he never gave any reason for it so I couldn't argue it anyway. He always calls me scummy; I don't know why; how is this different? And the picking battles things: the battle I picked was to call Piggy scum.

[N]

How long does it usually take CES to post something actually relevant?

He always calls me scummy; I don't know why

Because you play scummy.

Is it because I refuse to call myself obvtown?

Anyways, just wanted to throw this out there since it was a lightbulb moment. Thor and Jesse are town.

Well, that's highly convenient. What changed since your last post, when he was most likely scum? (I'll answer for you if you like: he got replaced twice, and although neither replacement gave any content, deadline is approaching and you don't want to lynch your buddy.)

[N]

It's because your cases lack internal logic, and you also pair combativeness with lurkiness and odd focus.

Have I lacked internal logic and had an odd focus this game? I'm voting for the same person as you.

[N]

How is the way I arrived at Jesse-scum any different than the way you did? Neither of us showed any suspicion of him until after he voted for me.

[N]

Also posts about food.

[N]

Mehdi, get back on N.

?
Pretty sure N is getting lynched if nothing weird happens.

Point 2 rather does matter - especially considering I'd flat out called him scum the Day prior.
Point 3 begs the question why bother then if I didn't care if I got a town to follow me or not - why not just bus?

You could've bussed but that's a bit pedestrian. Trying something fancier is a perfectly legitimate option and there's certainly no reason why you wouldn't pick your scum buddy as your target.

I did answer - N is easier to get lynched.

Thor-N does make a lot of sense.

I see CES is pushing my lynch pretty hard. His vote must have been...

Vote Count

• Cogito Ergo Sum (2)
  : N Thor665
  
• N (2)
  : Deadpool Soul2277
  
• Cerulean (1)
  : Cogito Ergo Sum
  
• Not voting:
  Justin Timberlake Cerulean

Deadline: Mon 3 Dec, 10:37 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-12-03 10:37:00)

)

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

Oh it's on

Cerulean

.

[N]

Soul, I don't think it's that problematic at all. While Jesse / N pushed on each other it was never hardcore and left themselves openings to leave it.

What the hell is this? Where has my vote been pretty much all game? The only vote I've made that wasn't for Jesse was on Piggy

in RVS

. What does it take to be "hardcore" to you?

[N]

I know, and I'm asking why it isn't a serious vote with 8 hours to go.

[N]

I mean, if he's town, he should be voting for someone he has serious suspicion on.

[N]

N, you're basically just going with an Appeal to Boring. Don't be bad.

That's not even a thing.

[N]

Tammy or well anyone else, if there's anything you think I'm missing or need to re-look at you should post it in the next hourish or two.

Start of Day 3.
N clears Piggy.
Discuss.

You've already given up haven't you?

This is pretty funny after that little monologue you posted in the four posts before it.

[N]

N I think respoding to that particular post proves it is indeed a thing.

How is it a thing?

[N]

Is it an alignment thing?

[N]

Appeal to Boring is when you're just pointing out/whining about how someone's play isn't "proper" instead of scumhtuning.

I'm doing that, am I?

[N]

Well, at least I don't have to do lylo.

[N]

Btw, the scum asked for their QT to be kept secret. The dead thread is here.

Can I ask which scum wanted it secret because that's quite lame.

Oversoul asked very early on for it not to be shared, like day 1 I think.

cfj, in the dead qt you talked about flavour for if scum won. Can you post that? I liked reading your flavour.

[N]

I said it in the scum qt, but I think it's hilarious that Thor always reads me as scum and then, when I actually am scum, decides that I'm town.

[N]

Regarding the setup, I get what you are saying about the playerlist getting better as opposed to worse. To town, it was beneficial because town were able to follow the lead of Cerulean and JT and scum were powerless to stop them. I still think if I were scum, it would have ridiculously hard to get away with no nightkills. For instance, if Cerulean suspected anyone, there would have been literally no way to worm out of it considering they were near confirmed.

I think I realised this too late. Early on, both were looking at lynching Jesse, so I was happy to let them be obvtown. But as that last day went on, I was trying to discredit JT and was going to push a Deadpool/JT scumteam on the last day if we'd managed to lynch Jesse.

[N]

F16's alt isn't very well hidden.