Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey, just an ego post so game is in my list.

Will get around to it as soon as I have time.

I haven't read a single word. Just seen the last VC...

VOTE: ConManMick

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will be catching up with this soon.

If you don't like my vote, don't complain.

Vote me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just noticed Senator is in this game.

Alch, I'm doing you a huge favour staying in this game. You owe me one.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, catching up. Gonna do this page by page.

I'm gonna make note of some things for myself to keep an eye on and I'm prob gonna ask questions about things that happened a long time ago, but, whatever. Try your best to answer.

30 - Ricastle, here you agreed with Choof that Lane's entrance felt forced/scummy. If you thought this, why did you not post it in your 24 which was right after Lane's 23 that you didn't like but made no mention of? That makes no sense. You can have some scum points for early posturing.

36 - Bella, was there a particular reason you chose to ask Ric if he was town as opposed to anyone else?

38 - I like this vote from Farside. I got the same feelings.

47 - Just making a note to see if this vote is explained as being serious/RVS.

The whole interaction between Ric/Bella on this page felt very, very off. Something is going on there and hopefully it becomes clear over the next few pages.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

50 - This could be cheeky scum. I agree with Plotinus.

55 - Ricastle, you thought Lane could be scum, yeah? Why didn't you vote them? Then you go ahead and vote Plotinus...for what? Voting somebody else?

There is a good chance Ricastle is scum.

VOTE: Ricastle

59 - Papi Bear, don't town read somebody because they post a lot. Choof himself has said it's not alignment indicative.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

83 - Flubbernugget, this is extremely weak. You can have scum points for this.

98 - Bella, why is Ric town?

Also, Plotinus is probably town. So votes on him are laughable.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

101 - Farside appears to be thinking along the same lines as me so far. She can be town.

102 - Your self-awareness is scummy, Bella.

106 - This is weird from Flubber. I don't know what to make of it but I know that I don't like his posting up to this point. Plotinus seems town to me so this wagon forming on him is crazy.

112 - FA, you give reasons for scum-reading Flubber and then state you think his wagon is moving too quickly? If you're scum read is genuine, why would you worry about a quick wagon? Everyone is seeing what you're seeing, right?

Reads after 5 pages;

Town

Farside
Plotinus

[Gap]

ConManMick
Choof

[Gap]

Lane
Senator
Ricastle
FA_Q2
Papi Bear
Vettrock
Jeanne
Optilex
Spartan

[Gap]

Flubber
Bella

Scum

VOTE: Bella

OK, I liked Ricastle's more recent posts, he has moved up to null but I need more from him.

I feel good that Farside and Plotinus are town. Bella/Ricastle are voting Plotinus with Flubber considering it. There is at least one scum in these three people. Bella > Flubber > Ricastle in strength of scum read.

Far too many people not posting. Need more content and these people should be pressured.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

126 - Hmm, at first glance I liked this post from Ricastle. After reading it several times, I'm not sure I do anymore.

I would have gladly got on a Flubber wagon if this idiot hadn't gone and exposed himself. Sorry guys.

This line in particular is so weird. I don't like it and I can't figure out why. It almost feels like he is annoyed that Lane has 'outed himself' as scum? Farside and Plotinus, can I get your opinions on this please?

Ricastle, is it fair to say you're voting Lane because you don't agree with her scum read on Choof?

143 - Senator, I don't get the 'Ricastle is correcting people' comment. Is that somehow alignment indicative? Also, I disagree that Ricastle hasn't taken opportunities to look town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not much going on on page 7...

168 - Lane, this post got my spidey senses tingling. Why are you so defensive of Bella?

My town-read on ConMan has evaporated. Flubber looks a little better.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow, not much content going on. No real wagons forming either. Weak start to the game.

190 - Lane, can you explain why you think Bella was scummy for asking people for reads/who is scum?

I feel like I need to revise my reads here.

Farside and Plotinus are still town. These are my only town reads that I feel confident in at this point which is pretty disappointing.

I still like Bella for scum. Flubber looks slightly better so null/scum for him.

I think there is definitely at least one scum in Ricastle/Bella/Lane. Those 3 are having some weird interactions, wish I was here real time to explore it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lane, walk me through your thought process here;

Lol @farside calling out Bella for crap posting... farside, your shit sinks just as bad, and....

Yeah Bella is weirding me out... she's asked people for reads or who they think is scum exactly 8 times among other questions posed. Made some vague references about how something could be bad but maybe not. Voted plot cause he might be scum.

First, you defend her against Farside calling her posts crappy.

Then you attack her not long after for...crappy posting?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

201 - Catch up from Wrong Song. Me no likey.

Most of the beginning of it is fluff. Stuff not worth saying.

I hate the reads. I don't know how he is town reading Bella, I know he explains it as gut, and this bothers me. I also disagree that Lane and Conman are scum; I'm thinking they're both town.

I see you said you can't explain your town read on Ricastle but I would really like you to give it a go.

231 - Con is town. He's town because he is struggling for reads; I kind of felt the same way when I was catching up. As scum, it would be very easy for him to fake some reads because he knows everyone's alignments. Con is trying to figure the game out, he is town. I'm gonna be looking at his wagon closely when I catch up fully.

234 - I like FA for town as well.

235 - Ha, I don't like this though. If this is the basis for the Con wagon, I'd bet my life that scum are on it.

239 - Bella also thinking Con and Lane are scum. I don't like this either. Con and Lane are both pretty easy targets at this moment for scum.

They're also both town.

The timing of this vote on Con is scummy as fuck.

I think Bella is toDay's lynch.

VOTE: Bella

244 - This is town as fuck. Con is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

253 - Oh dear Farside, wtf is this shit?

Can you explain your town reads on Senator, Wrong and Choof? Senator in particular feels like scum sliding by unnoticed. Saying the right things without actually doing anything.

254 - This is weak, Farside. Not impressed with these two posts at all.

255 - Farside, join me in lynching Bella? You're scum reading her and Con is town. Show me you're town.

273 - Bella, can you quote posts from Ric that made you town read him please. Can you make sure all of the posts you quote come before post 98 as well.

I don't like you looking for direction from Farside either. The wording here is very strange;

think wrong/flub and probably ric are town

This is strange because you seem to have been town reading Ric all game. Yet, when you list your town reads, not only is he not your first town read you state but he is a 'probably' town. That doesn't fit with your play so far this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

275 - I'll lynch this.

Right now.

286 - It is scummy. But it's scummy coming from a town mindset.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

310 - Senator, can you clarify your reads on these players, I hate ambiguity.

Are FA, Conman, Bella and Lane scum reads or not? Same for Wrong.

316 - Choof, my post is the scummiest post of the game so far...and it's not worth your vote?

What?

317 - No, how about you catch up and read the game before finding out where everyone stands so you can tailor your reads accordingly? Thanks.

Papi, you had an early town read on Choof, which was weak, and now you have sheeped Choof's attack on me. I'm watching you.

320 - Yes, I did jump on your wagon. But now I have realized you're very obviously town so I will fight to the death to prevent your lynch.

You're welcome.

321 - I'm on board with the policy lynch of Vettrock.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

330 - Farside, you want me to be town this game? Why did you say this?

331 - This vote is weak. This is the best you can do at this point of the game? Really?

336 - Explain town read on Bella please Farside?

340 - Reverend is very likely to be SK, and if not, he is scum. Most of the time, when people are hunting a SK it's because they are one or they're scum concerned with who can kill them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

353 - Can you expand on this read Flubber. I can see it but want to know why you're scum reading her.

357 - RMM, you have read the entire game?

366 - Yes, Senator. I'm scum reading you.

I've finally caught up.

Thoughts incoming.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, firstly I'm gonna go back and make sure everyone has answered what I asked of them. Please check my catch up for anything that might pertain to you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actually, I'm not doing that now.

That would be dumb.

Will give everyone time to respond.

Thoughts/reads incoming.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

First, a good old fashioned reads list;

Town: S>W -

Con, Lane, [GAP] Flubber, FA, Plotinus.

Null/Undecided:

Choof, RMM, Ricastle, Farside.

Policy Lynch: Vettrock

Scum: S>W -

Bella, The Reverend, [GAP] Wrong Song, Senator, Papi Bear.

PEdit - I know! Great Day!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod - Can we get a VC please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a wagon in this game with over four votes.

That means scum are playing pretty cautiously, probably pushing separate wagons and keeping themselves apart.

If you're town, you need to pull your finger out and start building some wagons.

Let's lynch Bella. We're 16 pages in, time to get a lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Con, Flubber, FA and Plotinus: Can you give me your reads on Bella please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bbt: there is nothing weak about my points. I've see scum struggle for reads because they don't know how to do fake reads.
Offering nothing but innane chatter and only showing up to defend yourself....yah the day that's something town does and not scum I'm quitting mafia.

As scum, it's extremely easy to say 'X is town because [insert post number here]' because scum

know

they're town. Therefore, they're not lying and because they know their alignment, it's easier to spot things that 'look town.'

I agree that it's hard for scum to formulate scum reads; but he is saying he has no reads at all except for three weak town reads.

Can you explain your reversal on Bella please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure. I'll even present it in a nice neat box.

Why Bella is scum

36 - This was an early gut feel. The comment on Ric felt off, like she was already town reading him, I'm thinking it was an early attempt to appease Ric and get him on her side (Admittedly, this relies on Ric being town which I'm unsure on right now.)

98 - Here, Ric is now town. (I'm waiting for an explanation of this read) I don't get this read at all.

102 - Self-awareness. She is cautious about how her responses may be received which implies she is carefully constructing her posts. Primarily a scum trait.

162 - A bunch of random questions. I need to look into this further but I'm not sure she actually follows the questions through. Like, they're questions that look like good scum-hunting on the surface but they don't actually contribute to anything further. I should say at this point that I'm extremely surprised Senator did not pick up on this (if he is town, which I don't think he is atm and this would go some way to explaining why he didn't mention it)

239 - At this time, her reads were almost the direct opposite of mine. Usually, when reads clash this badly it's because they're coming from two different mindsets (And I'm town so....)

The vote on Con was so opportunistic. Like, it was perfect timing for scum to jump on the Con wagon as it looked like he was coming under pressure and his wagon was looking like it was about to pick up steam. There is no mention of Con being a scum read of hers before this post, not even an inkling of it.

273 - I quoted some very specific wording from this post. Look it up.

She has had Ric as town from pretty early on in the game. When she comes to listing her reads, Ric is 'probably town.' This makes no sense and isn't consistent with her read up to this point.

I also don't like the 'But I am a newb' comment. This is like she is trying to excuse any poor play with 'I don't know what I'm doing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes.

Why is Bella town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Leaning scum to reading scum on Bella still. Still think it was a sidestep.

Just for reference, can you quote an earlier post that shows you were scum-reading Bella?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What?

162 is a bad post. They're questions that she doesn't follow up on. What things does she note? She literally asks for people's thoughts; that's it.

She also attempts to deflect onto Con.

OK, so you're saying self-awareness is a null tell but you're using it to town read her? I'm lost.

That's it? Con's lack of content... I can probably name at least 3 players with less content than Con. Con was lynch bait, easy target for scum.

I would love to get two competing wagons going; one on Con and one on Bella so you're more than welcome to stay on him. But you should know that he isn't getting lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's all you're choosing to respond to? 'Because newb' doesn't cut it. Newbscum are much more likely to be careful with how they play so I'm not seeing that at all.

What thoughts is she expressing?

You didn't say no reads. You said no content.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're willing to vote Bella then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I did read it.

It's a post that looks town on the surface. When you actually read it, and follow the consequences of the post, you see that it didn't actually go anywhere. She just asked empty questions with no follow up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure? Straight-away, 28 their interaction with plot when she says she's half out of RVS, which got the same reaction from him as it did from me and 90.

Maybe it's because they seemed to be thinking similar things to me

, and I know I'm town. Also, how does that not fit with my play?

You realize that 28 is not an interaction with Plotinus, right?

@Bold - This is clearly reasoning that you have just thought up now; on the spot. Who is they?

I don't know what's so town about 90? You don't think scum could have said that?

The comment about something not fitting with your play was not relevant to the section you replied to. I will re-state it to make it clearer for you.

How do you mean, direction from far?

The direction from Farside is referring to this;

Hi far I'm interested in your plot read, because initially I thought the same as you, started to change my mind with her last big post, and am now kinda null on her. Same for fa.

You're looking for direction. Instead of trying to work it out for yourself, it looks like you're looking for reasoning to put a vote down on one of them.

@BBT.
36 I've explained at least twice.
98 Answered up post
102 a vaguely valid point, but I didn't understand far's reaction. Course I'd be self-conscious. Again, I've spoken about this, and I understand where far was coming from.
162The RVS joke thing was done to death. I followed up with FA and with far, papi and choof haven't really given us anything substantial since. I guess the only thing here is Flub.
239 Nah. Not opportunistic. I keep making my case on him, but it seems you are determined to town-read him with very little evidence. People have literally guided him to useful contributions and we're not getting them. The most towny thing he's said is to not lynch lurkers.

The newb thing: far was talking about newb!scum. It would've been weird not to mention it.

So, your case on me consists of stuff I've already spoken about (but not the answers), a 'self aware' post after it seemed my posting style was criticized, follow-ups with people who haven't posted anything big since, and a vote on someone who is acting scummy...but isn't scum, because, um, he's an 'easy target'.

Nope. I like the activity you've brought to the thread, but your case is terrible.

I understand that you have explained 36; I can buy it was a running joke. I still don't like it.

We can carry on our discussion about 98 (see questions above)

102 - This has nothing to do with Farside's reaction and everything to do with you being very careful in not only how you answered the question, but how you would be perceived based on your answer.

162 - I concede you followed up on FA (though not on your original issue, something different) and you did discuss Con with Farside (which is no revelation, it was a wagon you wanted to get on and Farside engaged with you anyway)

Papi, Choof and Flubber have all posted since you asked your questions, none of them have answered and you haven't pushed them to answer your questions. That leads me to believe your questions were insincere and you were not really interested in the answers. You were more concerned with the questions making you look like you were scum hunting.

239 - Can you show me where you were scum reading Con before this post, please? And just for clarification, can you state your case on him concisely in one post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Farside, why is it that I can't find you stating a read on Bella anywhere in the early game?

336 is the first time you mention any sort of read on her.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have.

But she doesn't outright state a read on her.

Especially in her posts where she states reads on players in the game. Instead, she defers to asking Bella questions.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, her last mention of her scum read on Bella is in 161.

Then, in her catch-up in 253, no mention of the Bella read. Instead, questions.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

She asks Bella what her reads on everyone are.

Then Farside proceeds to state her reads on Plot, Flubber, Choof, Ric, Wrong, and Lane. No mention of her read on Bella, just another question for why she reads Con and Lane as scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Plus the vote/read on Con.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry, there was meant to be a comma after 28! *derp*
90 is challenging flub's push on con-man, which as scum he didn't need to do.

102 -...I know? I agreed with you here in my last post. I just called myself 'self-conscious'. I don't know why this is a massive scum-tell.
162- I spoke with Fa about the wagon, and have discussed my take on flub. I like your mind-reading skills..papi and choof haven't posted a huge amount of content

(in fact, both have indicated they were posting catch-ups, which might've answered the question, but that hasn't happened

) and Flub has done some explaining of his reads

Stuff on con-man incoming.

.

OK, but 28 is an interaction between Ric and Choof and you're claiming it was an interaction between Ric and Plotinus. I'm confused.

Why would he need to challenge Flubber if he was town?

102 - It didn't look like you were agreeing. It looked like you were deflecting the question towards Farside's reaction and that had nothing to do with what I asked.

162 - It doesn't matter if they haven't posted a lot, they have posted which provided you with the opportunity to ask your questions again if you really wanted answers.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Real time interactions are so much better.

OK, so Farside is back to being town.

I'm not as sure as I was before that Con is town. Maybe I attributed too many town points to the couple of posts where he has done ~things~.

I'm also doubting my Bella scum-read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Senator, your posting is...infrequent.

I'm not used to that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can I get a reads list?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, I'm curious why you don't think Ric could fake either 28 or 90?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

28, maybe he could, but I don't see why you would fake 90, rather than a)doing nothing or b) using it to push a scum-agenda. Why would you fake 90? (not sarcasm, actual question)

Town cred? It was an easy post to attack.

He is essentially defending everyone who RVS'ed. You really don't see the scum motivation for doing something like that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

445 - Senator, can you explain why you think Flubber and Lane are scum.

VOTE: The Reverend

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Want to lynch Reverend, Papi Bear or Vettrock toDay.

I think these are the best lynches.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm like, 98% sure Papi Bear is scum.

Might want to lynch him more than Reverend.

Hmm.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

His complete lack of nothing. He fence sits to the max and I don't believe he is actually doing anything.

Like, look at his comment regarding Reverend's ISO.

hmmm... I think I can see why the vote is on Reverend now... I'm not sure though..

Moving onto Bella's ISO..

He couldn't have taken less of a stance on Reverend. He has nothing to say about his ISO? At all? Not a single sentence about Reverend before moving onto somebody else.

This is scum coasting and I actually feel much more comfortable with my vote on him now.

VOTE: Papi Bear

@Papi Bear - Why do you think I was voting Reverend and do you agree with what I said?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

20 pages of information. That's enough.

Time for a lynch to progress the game.

Votes on Papi please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nice. Quick wagons usually make me cautious but we really need a lynch in this game.

3 more votes please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Dave,

How is that catch up going?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm happy lynching Rev after Papi.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're not reading the game in it's entirety first?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Maybe tomorrow.

Lynching Papi today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

FA, we need a lynch.

Vote Papi please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because he's scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because we have 21 pages of information, which is more than enough.

Also, Days can go on too long. Just because we have 5 days left, that doesn't mean we should use them.

Long days cause town apathy. It also causes people to lose focus. A good pace to the game keeps everyone engaged.

It's time for a flip and some information.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not interested in that discussion right now Ricastle.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

551 - OK, this is the worst claim I think I have ever seen. If I'm Doc and I'm at L-1

THE VERY FIRST THING I AM GOING TO WRTE IS

;

I CLAIM DOC.

Nice and big, at the top of my post because that's where my priority lies. I don't casually throw it in the middle of a post where I'm giving out reads.

Further to this, we have a backup doc. If we're going to lynch a Doc, it needs to be D1.

Now, as for the reads;

Why is Senator town?
Why don't you have a read on Ricastle and Flubber?
Can you explain all three of your scum reads please?

Also, this might be a small thing but it bugs me that he put his claim under 'why he shouldn't be lynched.' This shows he has thought about what he can do to stop himself getting lynched; the best thing he can do is claim Doc. Then he throws out awful self-meta, deflects onto somebody who isn't in the game anymore and states he has 'tried.' He also adds the casual 'If you're not convinced then lynch me', classic scum trying to act like they don't care if they're lynched.

Yeah, I'm not buying any of this.

552 - Yeah, this.

555 - Farside, read what I wrote above and vote Papi again please.

558 - Again...this.

571 - I can see Senator. Not Farside though.

574 - Why are you changing votes if you don't believe the claim?

573 - I have stated why Papi is scum. It's bothering me that you're not reading the game/haven't caught up since replacing in.

575 - Yeah, his claim looked awful. It lacked sincerity and urgency. Papi had enough time to 'read the game' and when he was posting from this reading he was doing it was complete crap. Barely taking a stance on anything he commented on and just shifting from ISO to ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We don't need any more discussion.

We need a lynch and some information.

Let's do it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Haha, fool me once...

The case on Papi isn't just that he's lurking.

ISO me. I have made it pretty clear somewhere.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What makes you think scum would have anticipated having to claim D1?

Also, what makes you think scum had pre-game chat?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I disagree. Papi's buddies wouldn't have known he was going to claim Doc. He might have claimed VT.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure.

I just don't want it to lose momentum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What question?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's Papi toDay.

We're not running somebody else up with that awful claim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

601 - It;s awful because of the reasons I stated Farside.

ConMan can get lynched Tomorrow. ToDay, it's Papi.

607 - Oh, I was just talking about the scum motivation behind Ric defending everyone over their RVS votes in his attack against Flubber. I'm not very interested in discussing this further right now though.

614 - FA, I feel this should be pretty obvious. It directs scum. If everyone starts giving opinions on what a flip might mean for them, scum have more information to work with when deciding who to kill.

There is no use speculating on a flip. Let's wait until we have solid information.

You had me as 'solidly town' and one post changed that? Couldn't have been that solid.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Lane, can you make use of your vote and place it on Papi please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lane, I'm not interested in discussing that right now.

Do you think it's likely that Bella gets lynched toDay?

In fact, the only people I feel are actually trying to lynch the people they're voting for are Farside, FA and maybe Dave.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I haven't read anything in the past 4/5 pages and I don't give a fuck.

Discuss.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: ConMan

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I need to read this game at some point.

I'm so bad.

I do like that we now have 3 wagons going though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll make this game priority tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Getting around to this soon.

Have about 400 posts to read properly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

395 - I just want to point out how awful this reads list from Senator is.

He uses a lot of buzzwords to explain his town reads and it feels disingenuous. He says Farside is town because 'he sees town motivation and he can see her mindset.' What? Can you elaborate on this Senator? Maybe quote some posts where you feel you can see town motivation behind what Farside is doing and where you can see her mindset.

All of your reads, which you stated at the bottom but doesn't change the fact, are wishy-washy. One could also assume that your 310 indicates that you're scum reading Bella and Lane. However, your reads state them as null/null-scum. This doesn't fit with your previous post and feels like you purposely provided vague reads in order to take advantage of any situation that may arise.

Lane is last in your 310 reads, which implies she would be your strongest scum-read. However, in your read your main problem lies with her play-style (not alignment indicative) and that she is awkward (again, not alignment indicative). Can you elaborate on this read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

427 - I didn't even realise ConMan had parked his vote on Flubber since RVS. This is scummy.

439 - FA, can you explain how you thought Flubber was getting scummier and scummier?

Flubber, is there a reason you're avoiding FA's questions?

445 - This continues from my previous post. Senator is stating who he would lynch without outright scum reading them and providing reasons. Can someone explain to me how this isn't scummy?

This is his 3rd (?) post where he states he would be OK with people being lynched (Bella, Papi, Flubber, Lane, who incidentally might all be town; need to read Papi closer as he is the only one I think could be scum) Are all 4 people Senator is OK lynching town? Is Senator that bad or is he scum? Probably the latter. Like, he literally has no scum reads at this point, 18 pages into the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

453 - I feel this needs to be restated. Papi's catching up was awful. His whole post here is fluff, he doesn't bring anything new to the table.

He also continues to try and attack my very first post, which is very easy for scum to do and partly why I did it.

456 - Continued catch-up from Papi and it continues to be bad. There is nothing here, no reads, no content, no information. Nothing.

458 - Why did you stop reading at page 14 and start ISO's Papi? Also, why did you select the ISO's you did?

459 - RMM is your (Papi) scum-read for mentioning a PL. I also agreed with RMM, wanna come at me as well? You're trying to attack the easiest option every single time. This is scummy as fuck. Your attacks are shallow and very much pursuing what you perceive to be an easy reason to push.

466 - Again, restating how wishy-washy this post is. Read this post; why did he post it? What is he trying to say? What information is he giving us? How does it help town? He doesn't even comment on a single word of Reverend's ISO before moving onto Bella.

473 - This is a vote I have a slight problem with. Not interested in pursuing it further toDay, but need to make a comment of it so it's in my ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I need someone else here to interrupt my catch up. Otherwise, it's mostly going to get skimmed over which is pretty annoying.

I might stop here until a few people have read/posted.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can't help myself and I have a lot to catch up on.

479 - More shit from Papi. Here is the progression of his read on Bella in just this post alone; Scum, scum, scum, weak scum read, newb town, weak reasoning for Bella being scum, likes how she is scum hunting as a newb, one thing that ticks him off is her weak line of questioning, doesn't think Bella is scum.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Papi is toDay's lynch. Without a shadow of a doubt. I have more reasoning that I will share at some point.

VOTE: Papi

488 - Only the second bad vote on the Papi wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

502 - I heavily dislike that Dave comes straight in and goes for RMM. No comment at all on the biggest wagon in the game.

If you're going to ISO; why do you not start with the biggest wagon? Makes no sense.

505 - Self-meta. I was just thinking Rev might actually be town and then he starts pulling this BS. 'Hey Farside, you know how I play as town and I'm totally doing that. Come on, tell BBT how town I am.'

Reverend, I feel like you should know I care very little for meta. If you had made this play in 100 town games and never in a scum game, it's still scummy. So, there's that.

515 - Yeah Papi is obviously the lynch. You're right, how did that go again?

522 - More self meta. Hating Reverend right now (the player, not the person!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

536 - Post filled with fluff from Senator. You're trying very hard not to take many stances. It's impressive!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

551 - Papi, can you explain your town read on Senator for me? Explaining all 3 of your scum reads would be great as well.

571 - Rev, Farside is town. Senator is very likely to be scum though.

573 - Again, don't like this from Dave. This time he at least comments on the Papi wagon (though I'm not sure how he doesn't see the case on Papi)

Continues to tunnel on RMM despite admitting to not being caught up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I'm gonna stop at the end of page 23.

I want people to actually read what I'm posting. Will continue catching up later.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will be continuing my catch up soon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

580 - I think you're on the right lines with ConMan and Senator, Rev. Ricastle and Farside are probably town though. Self-meta aside, Rev is probably town.

Papi is indeed the best lynch for toDay.

599 - Farside, you're letting Papi's claim throw you off completely. We have a back up doc if he happens to actually be a doc, do you really want to be second guessing Papi late game? Do you value his contributions that much that you're going to keep him around? It's best to sort him toDay.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I feel that this is an important time to bring this up. Let's analyse the Papi wagon

(I have added Reverend onto the Papi wagon as he put him to L-1 but there are no VCs to reflect this)

VC 1.9

(7)Papi Bear:

BlueBloodedToffee, farside, Ricastle, Plotinus, Flubbernugget, RationalMadman, Bellaphant,

Reverend

(2)Bellaphant:

lane, Senator

(2)Flubbernugget:

ConManMick, FA_Q2

(1)Vettrock:

Papi Bear

(1)lane0168:

Wrong Song

(1)RationalMadman:

Vettrock

Not Voting: Choof, The Reverend

IMO, this wagon is pretty townie. The only votes I would question are Ricastle and RMM. Ricastle I think could be town; it was his wording when he voted Papi that threw me off. RMM could quite easily be bussing; don't have a solid opinion on him.

The fact that my strongest scum reads outside of Papi (Senator and ConMan) are off the wagon only fuels my theory that we actually caught scum. If Papi somehow flips town, it's extremely easy to find who the scum are on the wagon.

PEdit - Senator, are you going to pretend that I haven't stated why I'm scum reading you? I don't need to engage you to show why I think you're scum.

Papi, is not a poor lynch. Not by a long shot.

Why is it a poor lynch?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

606 - Senator, can you explain the Reverend vote here? If you have explained it at a later time obviously ignore this.

612 - FA, here you said you don't have any strong town reads.

I really don’t have any strong town reads and I have already posted my scum reads.

Yet here;

I had you as solidly town but this makes me wonder about that.

You claim you had me as 'solid town'. What's up with that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

627 - Lane, I don't get this. Papi was afforded plenty of time to pull himself together and do something. In fact, he only really gave it a go after he had received 4 votes. Are you satisfied with what he was posting? Had he claimed VT, would you be happy to lynch him?

642 - This is the easiest excuse ever for scum to pull out of the bag to reevaluate a read. Upon rereading an ISO? What changed? Can you explain your thought process from how it was scummy at first to how it is now null/town? You still complain about her early posting and you're not happy with her current posting at this time either (where are the +town points?). So yeah, an explanation would be great for the change in read.

647 - Wrong, it's not a risk to lynch Papi. We have a backup doc if by some chance he is town. I don't think I ever mentioned anyone CC'ing either so I don't know what you're talking about here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

701 - ConMan, what changed your original points for Bella being scum after your reread?

You're very wishy-washy with your comments on the Papi wagon. It's a pretty big issue and you should be committing to some sort of opinion. Also, after reading this post, I believe ConMan has tried to use the 'investigative comment' as a way of keeping alive a scum buddy for at least an extra day. That's how I'm reading it. RMM is a great wagon for scum to jump on as well.

ConMan is for sure the lynch after Papi.

710 - VC - Another nice, town looking wagon on Papi. I will be astonished if he flips town.

713 - So you're going to read Flubber as scum no matter what Papi flips? Seems fair...

I see this post as scum trying to save their buddy. Just notes for when we have some flips.

716 - Flubber, it's scum trying to save their buddy. ConMan is saying the lynch is wrong because it's on scum.

717 - ConMan, can you show me where Papi did some scum hunting please?

If we can point out something scummy from Papi you will vote him? Are you serious? You clearly haven't been reading/choosing to ignore what's been said.

724 - You're still town reading ConMan, Senator?

PEdit - Wad that hammer?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I could lynch Senator but I really think we're best lynching Papi first.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How is the 'not flooding games with posts' meta going with your new account?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't particularly enjoy engaging with scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is that to Reverend or me?

Reverend, where else do you play mafia?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, 2 more votes.

Thought it was closer than that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I thought it was.

You OngBonga?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree that Scum!Senator can quite easily be defending Papi.

Rev, I don't think you're in any danger of being lynched; even if Papi flips town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I'm Cobra haha.

More of that post-game though!

We can lynch Senator Tomorrow. He ain't going anywhere.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I do, but not in a mafia sense. Never played Mafia with him before.

I think you're scum Senator. It's difficult for me to lend any weight to anything you say.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I like his reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would love to eventually draw a 3rd party role. Unfortunately, it's not this game. Good try though!

I think it's blatantly obvious I'm town btw.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

meta

I don't know what this is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reverend, let's sort Papi out first.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wtf is up with people this game

Vote: RMM

Farside, you're trying really hard to avoid the Papi wagon.

Jump on. End the day.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Misrep? The claim location is stupid, he blatantly said he was too busy to read; the real issue is why isn't he replacing out.

Why are you trying to argue such silly semantics?

It's not just the location of his claim that is the problem.

You're either trying really hard to pretend to be ignorant or you're flat out not reading this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What? Since when has a nullscum read been not a scumread?

Nullscum is barely a scum read. Barely.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The resistance to it has been relatively meek, there's little interaction from him, and most people's cases on him seem to revolve around him not groveling for his life. The wagons almost flashed into existence, and people are now content to lurk it out. There's a lot of evidence I see that this is a bad wagon.

You yourself just tried to push the wagon forward by saying your other scumreads aren't on it. You believe in pre-flip association? If we are going to lynch lurkers let's hit dave.

Wrong.

He has been to L-1 3 times now (?) and still isn't lynched. There is quite a lot of resistance to his lynch. There have also been two counter-wagons produced (ConMan and RMM). I'm not sure how you can say there is little resistance.

He hasn't done anything. The things he has done, he may as well not have done; they're full of fluff. He brings no new analysis/information/reads/content with his posting and refuses to take a solid stance on anthing.

Again, you're not reading. You clearly don't (or are at least pretending) understand the case on Papi.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

A nullscum read is not a slightly scummy read. I don't care to lynch 'slightly scummy' people, and never have.

And the Papi case is unconvincing. You're trying to pressure me into it. You're pushing bad townplay as scumplay. They certainly overlap, but I don't see it. I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm wrong for not being in synch with you. Its silly. Have you given thought to what we do tomorrow if Papi flips town, SK, or scum?

What does nullscum mean to you? To me, it means leaning on the scum side of null (weak scum read)

I don't need you to hammer your buddy. Someone else will.

You're wrong because I just showed you that the Papi wagon has faced quite a lot of resistance after you claimed it had faced none.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I thought he was trying to brush over it, and then lurk his way through the repercussions after the omgus push failed. I explained that thought process in my posts. If he was scum I would imagine he would have had said I was lying and just trying to appease him as well, but he didn't and thus let go of a reason to blindly suspect me. So when I found no reason to scumread him I stopped.

Can you elaborate on this a little more clearly. I'm finding it hard to follow, quote some posts to show me what you're talking about.

I asked why you changed your read on Bella after rereading her ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Umm, let me check. Maybe I got mixed up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're right, it was Lane.

Same question, different person.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I want you to explain how your reread of Lane's ISO made you change your read on him in detail (with links to posts)

No, I'm not stating you as the resistance to the Papi wagon. You're not reading Senator, and I'm not repeating myself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was prodded what is happening here, senator is town btw

Current reads/thoughts on the game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't need to declare intent.

He has claimed.

Lynch him.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RMM or ConMan tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Senator

He really tried his best to stop that Papi wagon going through.

I need to read what's happened since the Day started but it's late and I'm tired so probably tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Catching up soon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Senator's questions remind me of the one's I asked in my first newbies so he can be town for now

Couple of quick mentions before I start catching up.

This was Flubber's reasoning for his town-read on Senator. This read is never reevaluated and becomes extremely stale. Even when it is revealed that Senator is not in fact a newbie, but is an alt of Pisskop, still no reevaluation.

This feels like a weak reasoned town read for a scum buddy.

Also, Flubber pushed pretty hard for a ConMan lynch so I think it's safe to say that ConMan is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum is very likely in Dave/Wrong/Senator/Wanderer.

My money is on Senator and it's extremely unlikely I'll be voting anywhere else toDay.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

I think it's likely that Bella, Plot, and FA are also town. Will not be voting for these people toDay.

That leaves Wanderer, RMM, Wrong, Senator and Dave.

I think Dave is town. I've only skimmed his posts but I liked what I read. Papi also voted for Dave; this brought a couple of things to my attention. Firstly, I doubt that Papi would vote for his scum buddy when he is danger of being lynched. Secondly, why didn't Papi join the RMM wagon? That was a viable counter wagon that he could have joined and tried to push to stop his own lynch. The question is, were town really doing so well that we had two major wagons on scum? It might be worth lynching RMM toDay to sort this out.

There have been posts from Wrong that I'm not particularly fond of but I mostly just forget he is in the game. Could very well be scum. I also believe he spent most of the day voting Lane, who I believe to be town, until he jumped onto the RMM wagon. Was he helping to push the CW to Papi?

I think the most informative lynch for toDay is RMM or Wrong and I feel both have a good chance of hitting scum (obviously I'm wrong on one of them, unless one is SK).

Thoughts?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was thinking Flubber was scum and was going to attack him today.
Need to reevaluate a few things.

Farside might be scum.

I didn't realise she was off the Papi wagon and I've just noticed something in her ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Whoops, that quote shouldn't be there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

101 - Flubber is a scum read. No vote though, instead she focuses on Bella. Classic scum move, FOS buddy (Flubber) but vote !town! (Bella)

253 - Her read on Flubber is 'paranoid'. Not scummy though, just someone to be watched.

330 - Can you explain this comment, Farside. Why did you want me to be town?

877 - If you thought Flubber was scum and you were going to attack him, why do you need to reevaluate? You were right, so there should be no need for reevaluation. This makes no sense.

As well as this, besides her brief stint on the Papi wagon (which after she got off she made sure she avoided like the plague; switching between Con and RMM) all of her scum reads throughout the game seem to be on people who I feel good are town. She also fits the bill for scum pushing CW to Papi.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, but you showed very little suspicion towards Flubber throughout the Day.

The way Con went about his reads (or lack of them) was town, I explained this somewhere I think. It was weak reasoning to pursue him.

Also, if you ended D1 thinking RMM was scum, why did you not start D2 in the same manner?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And this one is in it's very own post because I think you have ignored this twice.

Can you explain your comment to me in 330?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

I did vote ConMan, but it was on a perceived slip and at a time when I wasn't fully caught up (I had skimmed a fair few of the recent pages)
You come into D2 looking to attack Flubber. You ended D1 thinking RMM was scum. Why would you not continue attacking RMM? It has nothing to do with Wrong/RMM, and everything to do with the progression/change in your reads on Flubber/RMM.

Your '

I was scum reading Flubber and was going to attack him

' comment feels disingenuous.

Because of ongoing game reason.

I'm going to come back to this when I can. This is bullshit though.

VOTE: Farside

[BlueBloodedToffee]

888 - What wagons were probed Dave? Can you be more specific.

892 - Wanderer, can you elaborate on Dave's reasoning 'looking town' for not voting Papi?

I don't particularly like that you have commented on two dead people and both of your reads happen to be correct. I don't know why you included them.

Can you explain scum read on Lane?

893 - Farside, 'lack of interactions' for why RMM is scum is weak. I think everyone has had a lack of interaction with RMM.

894 - Farside, why are you hard town-reading Dave?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why would Papi flipping scum point you to Flubber? Like, it seems counter-intuitive to start looking for scum on the wagon of someone who flipped scum.

I can't explain it because ongoing. When I can, I will.

It's a weird comment to make. I could understand it if we had played together before or something like that, but we hadn't.

PEdit - Can you explain why you're hard town reading Dave please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I do. But again, it still seems counter-intuitive to search for scum on the wagon. Plus, you showed very little interest in Flubber throughout the Day, if you thought he switched to Con for BS reasons, why didn't you call him out on it? Why go for RMM instead? Why not Flubber?

I'm asking because it looks like you have just assumed Dave is town. I would like to know what he did that made you so sure he was town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Yeah, I'm not SK.

You're right though, I'm not even thinking about the SK right now. I have no idea how to find a SK.

I genuinely have no idea what I'm going to do when we lynch the last scum.

Hmmm I realize upon review of Dave I have no clue why I was town reading him so strong.
His last post came across as town but prior to that I realize he was pretty negative towards the papi lynch and his review of Flubber is pretty bad on what he found.

See, this makes a lot more sense.

I think you were town reading Dave to appease him and gain his vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

975 - Farside, I haven't been the only replacement. Reverend, Wrong, Wanderer, Dave and RMM have all replaced in. You never said anything to them about hoping they are town. It just strikes me as a really weird comment to make to somebody out of the blue.

You were hard town reading Dave (without openly stating it; that's the important part) and I couldn't see any reasons for you to be doing so. When you checked, you couldn't back up your read. I believe you were trying to gain Dave's vote on whoever it was you thought was scum at the time.

980 - FA, I think RMM has a good chance of being scum. I don't want to go into too much detail about what information his lynch would give us but he was a CW to Papi and should he flip town, that provides us with a lot of information. The voting at end of D1 will be very informative if we make the right choices.

982 - Looking forward to some content from you Dave. You're currently an OK lynch for me and I think Rev has a good point about you SK hunting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How is my second comment wrong?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You wouldn't try to get votes where you want them as town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are you going to keep repeating the same issues over and over?

Probably. Until you're lynched. Then I'll stop.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

906 - Wanderer, can you explain what you didn't like about Lane's 746?

916 - RMM, what are your reads this game? What do you think of the wagons at end of D1?

922 - This is an awful suggestion. We're in way too good a position to even consider mass-claiming.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I think toDay's lynch needs to be in RMM/Farside/Wrong/Dave.

I'm more than happy to vote any of these players.

S > W - Farside, RMM, Wrong, Dave.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Wanderer - I can see your where you're coming from, even if I disagree with the read. I still think Lane is town.

@Farside - My reasoning is far from weak. There are multiple things that point towards you being scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You think that's my only reasoning for you being scum?

If so, you haven't been reading thoroughly enough.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know what you're doing Senator.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Need to catch up at some point.

Probably tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1017 - Catching up but this post actually made me laugh out loud and deserves a mention.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1027 - ConMan, can you elaborate on your Farside town read? Who was she tunneling and how did this tunneling make you think she was town?

1035 - I like this post. Senator is trying pretty hard to hold onto a Rev scum read and I just don't see a scenario where Rev is scum. He could be SK, but not scum.

Also, a lynch on scum D1 is pretty bad. I can easily see scum hard defending their buddies to avoid this happening.

1047 - Wanderer, you need not worry. I am town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright.

VOTE: Wrong

This is the one for toDay then.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yup.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Conan is very likely town

Let's lynch Wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes.

Yes he is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, you interested in voting for Wrong?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Dave

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1113 - Con, what do you think about what I posted in relation to Farside being scum?

1116 - Lane, I'm pretty sure ConMan is town. There is no reason for Flubber to try and force through a lynch on one of his buddies when Papi was already the leading wagon. If you're in Flubber's position; who do you save? Your scum buddy who's coming under little/no suspicion (could be anyone, not just referring to it possibly being ConMan) or your buddy who is doing nothing and is being scum read by pretty much everyone in the game?

1129 - Dave, I am thoroughly unimpressed with your play so far this game.

1135 - Wrong, this lynch pool is absolutely awful. You saw RMM claim Doc right? Bella and Lane are very likely to be town and so is Plotinus.

I'm interested why you don't have Farside or Dave in your lynch pool.

Also, I hate alts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have no idea why Wrong is trying to lynch from the Papi wagon. He says it would 'not be beneficial' for both scum to bus yet ALL FOUR of his lynch candidates are on the Papi wagon.

Something isn't right here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also interested in why nobody is considering Senator.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What's wrong with half claiming like madman?

What?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I thought that's what you meant but you didn't capitalize 'Wrong' so I got confused.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I don't know why you're pointing out what the potential claims could be so you should stop doing that now.

These claims when a wagon has barely formed are ridiculous. I don't know how to word it properly but you're just allowing scum to play optimally by killing any wagon before it even starts. Give scum a chance to take a position/commit to something.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I get that.

I thought you were allocating PR's to specific claims. My bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's fine if he is busy, I just don't want him slipping under the radar with how hard he defended Papi.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK. This is getting fucking stupid.

We have 3 claimed PR's. I would bet at least one of them is lying, there is no way we have run up 3 PR's consecutively.

RMM, Wrong and Dave have all claimed a PR.

Time to lynch one of Farside/Senator.

VOTE: Farside

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is your vote still on Wrong?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

unvote

This is not a bad thing, and I'm not sure why toffee is pretending to be pissed off about this. We've either forced scum into making a bad move, or there's less mislynch bait than there was.

Every claim brings us a little bit closer to PoE'ing the scum.

No pretending. I wanted to avoid a mass claim so I'm not sure why you think that now we have potentially outed 3 PR's I wouldn't be annoyed.

Another point is that with two scums both making their own kills, even fake PR claims will still attract night attention. If dave is scum, well the SK might kill him by attacking what he thought was a PR.

The PR pool is definitely the worst pool to hide in for the scums because that's the pool that is likely to get smaller the quickest.

If we've forced a fakeclaim, then that is a very good thing by my reckoning.

I hadn't thought of this though and it's a good point. I keep forgetting about the SK.

Vote Farside?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh I see.

I find it funny if you think I'm scum. Like, actually comical.

I'm confirmed town son.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh.

I'm not SK either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm pretty much confirmed town.

Like, it's obvious I'm town. So obvious that I might as well be confirmed town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it's blatantly obvious I'm town btw.

I agree.

Hi Rev.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, can I interest you in a Farside vote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

FA, vote Farside?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You are sure one is lying but want to lynch outside the lying group?


We have 3 claimed PR's.

There are 6VT and 5PR's out there.

As more than half of our PR's are claimed would it not simply be better to get the last 2 to claim and see if there is an actual liar in the group? Should we wait then the PR pool will shrink and a mass claim will become useless. When there was one claim then I can understand not mass claiming but as we have already claimed 3 we have essentially already done a mass claim. (soft claims as you have been talking about btw)


If 2pr's are nailed tonight then there will be 3 left and a mass claim will essentially mean the death of them. Pointless at any other time.

I don't particularly want to lynch a possible PR. I wouldn't mind a mass-claim as I believe I know where one of the PR's lie and what it is. I don't want to say more unless we're gonna go ahead with the mass-claim.

If I'm proved correct, this should pretty much confirm me as town.

FA, vote Farside?

I have to go back over farside for that. I really don't see the case on him. Care to expand?

It should be in my ISO.

I'll see if I can dig it out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My reasoning/discussion with Farside for why I think she is scum.

101 - Flubber is a scum read. No vote though, instead she focuses on Bella. Classic scum move, FOS buddy (Flubber) but vote !town! (Bella)

253 - Her read on Flubber is 'paranoid'. Not scummy though, just someone to be watched.

330 - Can you explain this comment, Farside. Why did you want me to be town?

877 - If you thought Flubber was scum and you were going to attack him, why do you need to reevaluate? You were right, so there should be no need for reevaluation. This makes no sense.

As well as this, besides her brief stint on the Papi wagon (which after she got off she made sure she avoided like the plague; switching between Con and RMM) all of her scum reads throughout the game seem to be on people who I feel good are town. She also fits the bill for scum pushing CW to Papi.

OK, but you showed very little suspicion towards Flubber throughout the Day.

The way Con went about his reads (or lack of them) was town, I explained this somewhere I think. It was weak reasoning to pursue him.

Also, if you ended D1 thinking RMM was scum, why did you not start D2 in the same manner?

And this one is in it's very own post because I think you have ignored this twice.

Can you explain your comment to me in 330?

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

I did vote ConMan, but it was on a perceived slip and at a time when I wasn't fully caught up (I had skimmed a fair few of the recent pages)
You come into D2 looking to attack Flubber. You ended D1 thinking RMM was scum. Why would you not continue attacking RMM? It has nothing to do with Wrong/RMM, and everything to do with the progression/change in your reads on Flubber/RMM.

Your '

I was scum reading Flubber and was going to attack him

' comment feels disingenuous.

Because of ongoing game reason.

I'm going to come back to this when I can. This is bullshit though.

VOTE: Farside

Why would Papi flipping scum point you to Flubber? Like, it seems counter-intuitive to start looking for scum on the wagon of someone who flipped scum.

I can't explain it because ongoing. When I can, I will.

It's a weird comment to make. I could understand it if we had played together before or something like that, but we hadn't.

PEdit - Can you explain why you're hard town reading Dave please?

I do. But again, it still seems counter-intuitive to search for scum on the wagon. Plus, you showed very little interest in Flubber throughout the Day, if you thought he switched to Con for BS reasons, why didn't you call him out on it? Why go for RMM instead? Why not Flubber?

I'm asking because it looks like you have just assumed Dave is town. I would like to know what he did that made you so sure he was town.

975 - Farside, I haven't been the only replacement. Reverend, Wrong, Wanderer, Dave and RMM have all replaced in. You never said anything to them about hoping they are town. It just strikes me as a really weird comment to make to somebody out of the blue.

You were hard town reading Dave (without openly stating it; that's the important part) and I couldn't see any reasons for you to be doing so. When you checked, you couldn't back up your read. I believe you were trying to gain Dave's vote on whoever it was you thought was scum at the time.

980 - FA, I think RMM has a good chance of being scum. I don't want to go into too much detail about what information his lynch would give us but he was a CW to Papi and should he flip town, that provides us with a lot of information. The voting at end of D1 will be very informative if we make the right choices.

982 - Looking forward to some content from you Dave. You're currently an OK lynch for me and I think Rev has a good point about you SK hunting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

p-edit again: wut, bbt??

I think I know where one of the PR's lie.

If we're massclaiming, I would like to propose who I think it is and why. If I'm right, I'm confirmed town because that's obviously where I would have killed if I were scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm for a mass claim at this point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Should I say who I think is a PR and why with my claim and they can confirm it?

Because I might have seen something that isn't there and then I'll look dumb, but whatever. I don't mind.

PEdit - Rev, you're wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dodge the scum NK by confirming myself as town?

Are you reading what you're writing Rev?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I claim VT.

I believe Lane is a PR. I can be more specific later if required and if I'm even correct.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yup.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If I'm right, I could be making things up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I thought BBT thought some of the others were lying.

I also claim VT

We'll soon find out.

PEdit - Popcorn is when you claim, and you *pass the popcorn* to who you want to claim next.

I claim VT.

Popcorn: Farside.

Like that ^^

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So far we have;

Dave: PR
Wrong: PR
RMM: PR
Plotinus: VT
FA: VT
BBT: VT

Have I missed anyone?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Keep trying Reverend.

I think you're SK FWIW.

Was trying to play it close to my chest but IDGAF now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I hate giving myself up to be lynched. I'm 100% town, I cannot say the same for anyone else in this game with the same level of certainty.

Remember that if I die Plotinus.

I'm confirmed town if I'm right on the PR. You know it and I know it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Process of elimination.

For what it's worth.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I was trying to keep it quiet until we caught scum.

I'm much more interested in finding scum first.

Pedit - Exactly Plotinus.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I know who a PR is.

If I'm right, it confirms me as town because I would have killed said PR if I were scum.

If I'm wrong, then it's irrelevant.

PEdit - It was pretty easy to spot. I'm always looking for PR crumbs to remove them from my 'to lynch pile'. We play very differently Rev, if we're both town, you're going to have to come to terms with that.

I find it extremely scummy (SK-y?) that you constantly have the SK at the forefront of your mind. You're either worried about the SK because you're scum (unlikely) or you're the SK and you're feigning SK hunting.

We'll have to wait and see.

It's also very clear I have been scum hunting, remember when I caught scum D1? Good times.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I haven't suspected Farside at all have I? What a strange person to pass the popcorn to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Haha, nah. It's straight up fact.

Anybody who does not kill PR's as scum/SK is playing sub-optimally.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, but you don't want PR's around to catch you/block your kill.

At least, that's how I look at it. The longer PR's are around the more chance you have of being PoE'd late in the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Buy myself town credits how?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like this

You're saying I predicted a D2 mass claim? I mean, I'm good, but I'm not

that

good.

Solid point Plotinus. Your rebuttal Reverend?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I understand the PR thing actually, the logic being that you would have nightkilled them the prior night.

This is what I was replying to Bella.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hahaha.

OK, but that would mean I would first have to out a PR.

Do you think I would get town points for outing a PR for no reason?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, I was saying you should remember that I thought Reverend was SK if I died.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I also feel like Rev is trying to discredit me as a townie in an attempt to get the docs to protect elsewhere so he can kill me.

Just a thought.

PEdit - No, because we're mass claiming. Did I give off any hint whatsoever that I knew Lane was a PR before mass claim was suggested?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm gonna look pretty silly if Lane isn't a PR.

But I will explain why I thought what I did.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so I didn't out a PR without reason.

I would have had to have known that town were going to mass claim D2 and kept it to myself in order to get town points.

@Mod - In Open set ups, are the Role PM's for ALL ROLES not supposed to be sampled?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ignore my crumb comments.

I didn't read the set-up rules closely enough and I don't think I'm right any more.

If I am wrong on Lane, I'll still explain what I thought I saw.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, by claiming I was conf town I was trying to make scum uncomfortable with leaving me alive. I mean, I think it should be obvious that I'm town, but if other people started seeing it scum would come under much more pressure to do something about that.

I think Rev took the bait.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey I only read the last 2 pages. I like that we are claiming but what about what I suggested to have the tracker claim to clear at least 2 people?
It will help I think.
If there is an objection I'd like to know why with the soft claims out already.

I claim VT.

Bella claim please.

Tracker claiming results doesn't clear anyone.

Unless someone lies. Then the tracker can catch them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let's not out any PR's just yet.

Bella claim please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dave: PR
Wrong: PR
RMM: PR
Bella: PR

Plotinus: VT
FA: VT
BBT: VT
Farside: VT
Senator: VT

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Did we establish if the back up doc was claiming VT?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh.

If it back-up hasn't claimed yet, you should absolutely claim VT.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Eh, my emoticon was about that claims list. Like BBT said, everyone he scum-read (nearly) claimed PR.
)

Yeah, it's pretty unfortunate.

They are also most of the people who were off the Papi wagon which would suggest, if all claims are true, that there is a high chance scum double bussed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let's get the claims out of the way first.