Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[chilledtea]

Hi guys. I am reading through the thread now and will post my thoughts later.

[chilledtea]

I was not going to talk until I had completed my analysis;... but KainTepes at around page 5 and 6 is having me loling like anything at this point. Have a town read on him but he needs to chill. His behaviour might distract if he keeps this way.

[chilledtea]

I am around 70% through reading everything. My feelings in brief :

Town :

Anenien
Kuroi
Kain
FireStarter
Acroyn (?spelling)
xtoxm (fence)

Difficult read :

Burning Crystal
Mad King

Scum :

Davesaz
Kop
almost50 (fence)

I haven't read much of texcat since where I am he just replaced in but I like him as town for the moment.

[chilledtea]

and my perpetual thorn in my side

Eh, I've definitely said worse about you.
As it happens I'm not scumreading Adenine, though Raskol is, so we're probably not going to vote that unless nothing else can happen.
I greatly agree with Raskol's choice in Tex. What's your read on the slot?

Can someone tell me who this is?

[chilledtea]

After some small research, I am going to assume that is RadiantSomething from Mad King? Yeah hydrae need to stay in hydrae they started the game in otherwise it is difficult.

[chilledtea]

Allright. I have somewhat completely read throught the thread to the best of my capability.

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

However very few people seem to be on him.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Dave's convo with almost was very important. I don't consider him town (rather neutral - fence scum) but I am ready to give him space on this Day.
Almost50 went from fence-scum to obv town very quickly in my eyes. Not willing to lynch him.

Mad King Ashnard has picked up and I feel good about them. Between them and BurningCrystal, I would go for BurningCrystal (for lynching).

I get townie vibes from Kuroi but he could be a very good scum player, regardless I see no reason at the moment to go for his lynch.

I got town vibes from acryon earlier in the game and I maintain it. I also got town vibes from xtoxm.

If it wasn't for the exchange between almost and dave, I would have gone for dave lynch. I am not so confident of it now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Kop

[chilledtea]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

[chilledtea]

The post that I am talking about, where eagle made a case on you is 359

[chilledtea]

As far as kuroi is concerned, I have, for the most part in the game considered him town and he has given me little reason to consider him otherwise. But some people are mentioning that he plays differently according to his meta if he is town, and that was the reason why I said that he could be a really good scum player.

[chilledtea]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

I don't think I've ever voted KT, I was suspicious off him, but I've suspected people who have played in the same manner, and it's become an distraction because those have always flipped town. I'd not lynch him for the way he is playing, unless he gives off a tell that he is scum.

There are much better options right now, over KT.

Actually, the fact that you weren't voting for KT but pushing for him, is exactly what irked eagle. And I agree with him on this case. There was no fear of lynching KT at that point. So voting him/not voting him didn't really matter.
Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

[chilledtea]

I would personally, like to know who texcat would like lynched today.

[chilledtea]

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421[/quote]

I want to know what it was that made you vote for Burning Crystal, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

[chilledtea]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

No, I haven't.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

I will answer this a bit later

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in

this

manner when scum ; he isn't playing in

this

manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

[chilledtea]

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for Burning Crystal, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

lol.

This quote doesn't really make any sense. Allright I will repost what I wanted to say :

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for

texcat

, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

[chilledtea]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

No, I haven't.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

I will answer this a bit later

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in

this

manner when scum ; he isn't playing in

this

manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

I believe I've gave you a link to that game, along with some of my other scum games.

It is important to note that I don't really care that much about meta, personally. Also I feel like you are not in the center of the stage now. There's more stuff been uncovered.

[chilledtea]

At this point I am 100% OK with either a Burning Crystal lynch or texcat lynch. I would like a discussion on this if people are interested.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: texcat

The vote is on texcat for 2 reasons : 1) Because she is a little bit away from getting lynched from what I've seen. 2) Because I suspect her more.

To put it simply, texcat's answer wasn't sufficient. Her reads I don't agree with, and I definitely disagree with both her and BC on voting Mad King. That is not happening.
This is making me very confused. But after some thinking I've realized that it would be for the best for us to go for one of these. I am OK with burning crystal as well. Her explanation for changing her vote on texcat wasn't good enough.

To push my case further on texcat, I've gone back and re-read the last 5 pages or so. She never got upset over getting voted by BC. In fact, she never even confronted BC about it. Just blank. No mention of why did you change your mind and all that. Nothing. Instead her biggest scumreads are almost and someone else, and BC is "null".

I am telling you, texcat is just as good if not better lynch than BC. I am OK with either of these for this Day.

[chilledtea]

IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN HELP WITH....? I WANT TO HELP BUT ALL THE LONG POSTS ARE CONFUSING ME...

Who are you suspicious about? Give your thoughts of this day (day 1) in detail.

Also please write in normal punctuation without all capitals. If we write in all capitals, it would be annoying, right? So when you write everything in capitals, it feels like you are yelling, but you clearly aren't and that feels annoying.

If you respond to this with anything other than what is asked like, for eg if you respond with " WHY YOU HATE ME SO MUCH!!?!?!!?" then expect me to not reply back or take you seriously.

To give you a template to help you out with, refer to my own post : 705

[chilledtea]

It's me again.

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in this manner when scum ; he isn't playing in this manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

By

"Is that one still a tell?"

I meant something else.
Namely, I read on the Wiki long ago that scums are hesitant to start a wagon which achieves a lynch, therefore they tend to jump on existing ones. I don't think

this

is a tell nowadays.
As for meta-ing, I know it's not an all-powerful thing. But I also know how different I am whenever I'm scum (even if most people don't spot it), so I think there's a difference at everyone else's gameplay.

He didn't start the wagon. What he did was he tried to push suspicion or add pressure on KT but very subtly. Also I am not really feeling that strong about him now.

[chilledtea]

Hopefully Ranger posts quickly or as quickly as possible her thoughts and ideas.

Kain, you are doing much better so continue on this path.

I had hoped aninenien, kuroi, xtoxm and others could chip in and say who they would like as a candidate between BC, texcat. They haven't yet and the deadline has been (understandably) extended so this might drag on for some time now.

At least Kop is participating so I feel quite good about him, even though my fos will be there on him to some extent.

[chilledtea]

Oh ok. I missed that.

I see that aneninen has also voted burning crystal. I will wait for ranger before changing my vote then.

[chilledtea]

I had hoped aninenien, kuroi, xtoxm and others could chip in and say who they would like as a candidate between BC,

texcat

.

Nice quote. It would be enormously helpful if you would include commentary on why you quoted it.

I think he means he would go for texcat for a lynch instead of BC.

What would be your choice between these two?

[chilledtea]

I would ask why the choice is being limited to those two.
As for my answer, I'm already voting one of them...

I think they have the highest chance of getting lynched today, personally. Also it was more of a "these are my super scum reads and I would like your opinion on it" post to which he replied.

[chilledtea]

Except that doesn't look good at all on you.

[chilledtea]

I really believe scum don't care which of {Mad King Ashnard, Burning Crystal} gets lynched, because both are

really

looking like wagons on town.

Has your opinion on texcat changed at all?

[chilledtea]

BUT IF HE IS JAILED AND THERE ARE NO KILLS HE CAN JUST COME THE NEXT DAY AND SAY "I WAS JAILED AND PROTECTED THANK YOU JAILOR"???? and we won't know who he is????

I am speechless. KT's best post everyone.

[chilledtea]

We don't have that many choices.

1) BC
2) texcat (my favourite choice)
3) KT (policy)
4) No lynch
5) MKA (consider him pro-town, I wouldn't participate)
6) Kuroi (Jailer claim) <-
7) Davesaz (PR soft-claim) <-
8) Almost (Weak BG claim) <-
9) Kop (Personally KT is better option and anyone above KT in this list)
10) Myself (Please don't)
11) Acryon (Consider town. Unnecessary lynch)
12) Ranger (New to the day. Not much to go on regarding predecessors)
13) Anenenien (Consider town. Think unnecessary)
14) xtoxm (slight town imo but your call)

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Kuroi

I don't have the time or the health to put together a long ass wall like one of the heads of Mad King has done. I just don't. I can actually highlight reasons why I am town and give reads. I am getting wagoned for unifying town wards scum lynches and it sucks. I am tired of being wagoned for telling town the smart play. I encourage town to try and unify, using my vote in that manner and I get wagoned for being too agreeable. This wouldn't be a problem if Anen was town. It just wouldn't.

Then the wagon really takes off when I highlight mka and kuroi are scum. Not a coincidence.

No one else said let's get town to unify but me. Scum are doing jack shit but flood the game and refuse to vote each other. I have found 3 of them.

Almost50 and Dave are obviously town. Same with Xtoxm. If we could please get behind one of my three suspects. I would like to think there's some hope for us and that site meta doesn't encourage just sitting on your ass.

~Titus

This is ridiculous. Even if you are town, you should always expect people to be suspicious of you. They don't know anything, and will be vary of manipulation. Everyone has different reads sometimes. This post makes it look like you are a victim of some sorts, people just didn't believe you apparently. Well, yeah because this game is about finding liars and manipulators. If you try to manipulate town by being too "agreeable" than town has no choice other than being suspicious of you.

[chilledtea]

Well, I can see why people think acryon can suspicious personally.

But my problem is that, you guys were suspicious of kuroi as well, and I was not. I am not even sure whom to believe at this point. Acryon definitely did seem suspicious with that post where he voted Kop but I didn't think much about it personally. After all, at that point kop was my no. 1 candidate and if I got support ... it's not that they will always be town, but I didn't become overly paranoid over it to keep my thoughts intact.

[chilledtea]

Between texcat and bc, I would always go for texcat. BC has shown signs of towniness and my top town reads don't like her lynch that much.

[chilledtea]

We always have to option of polycy lynching kt btw, if all else fails I am ok with this as well.

[chilledtea]

texcat is L-2 if I am not mistaken.

[chilledtea]

From the wiki :

A hammer is a vote on someone which results in the majority needed to lynch them. Once the hammer vote is placed, the game moves into Twilight until the mod posts the death scene. The player who has been hammered is considered beyond salvation as of the moment the hammering vote has been placed; barring the influence of a role like a Governor nothing will stop them from getting lynched. Many mods allow hammered players to post in Twilight but some do not.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: KainTepes

I have to do some thinking on this game. The scum are hiding well.

[chilledtea]

How does 93 goad PRs?

It does not goad PR's into blatantly outing themselves, but it needlessly and uselessly discusses the setup which could lead PRs, especially inexperienced ones, to mention things that might make it easier to get who they are. The lines literally have no positive function, while there is chance for negatives.

But if Anen has the influence, he could easily direct PR's to Eagle based on his advice, by them just listening to it without discussing it not to out themselves, but if he knows there is a chance they are going to Eagle, it keeps them from potential team mates?

How do you read the game at present?

[chilledtea]

I don't like Ranger's readlist at all. Almost everyone is town according to her, and the two soft-claimed/claimed PR's are the scummy ones for her.

So far she has been suspicious of 1) Kuroi, 2) Almost, 3) Davesaz, 4) Acryon.

3 of the above 4 are claimed PR.

[chilledtea]

I don't like Ranger's readlist at all. Almost everyone is town according to her

No duh? That's because almost everyone in this game drew a town PM. How many players in this game are scum? Two? Three? Four? I didn't bother to check the setup, doesn't matter though, because regardless, that still means most players are town. My reads reflect that because in this game, people were

really

good at making themselves obvtown.

So far she has been suspicious of 1) Kuroi, 2) Almost, 3) Davesaz, 4) Acryon.
3 of the above 4 are claimed PR.

First point of clarity, dave is not a scumread, he's a null-read.

Second point: Why can't scum claim to be a PR?

In particular, Almost50's sheeping of me is godawful. 1088 is just the latest post where he, in spite of knowing

I am scumreading him

, puts faith in my reads ANYWAY. It's buddying. It's sheeping. It's hiding behind my reads rather than making his own. I don't care that he claimed a PR. I still think he's scum.

Why would scum roleclaim midway through day 1 with no pressure whatsoever? An unnecessary gambit. His "fake-claim" actually would be extremely courageous at that point.

[chilledtea]

Why would scum roleclaim midway through day 1 with no pressure whatsoever? An unnecessary gambit. His "fake-claim" actually would be extremely courageous at that point.

Most of those players claimed because of being pressurized.

Ranger is suspicious of almost who claimed without much pressure - or at least created the event of claiming without any pressure. He claimed x-shot PGO if I remember correctly and got MKA to vote for him; this event had no pressure behind it and seems like a very townie think to do, albeit a mistake to assume MKA would be scum for voting him. To put it simply, his reasons that he would die anyway were sound reasons to come out as weak bodyguard. Doesn't look like a fake claim from my perspective unless someone had countered it.

[chilledtea]

Sorry for my inactivity but I am in the same phase as MKA at this point. Don't know what to do, and am basically waiting for others to do the work.

I voted kain tepes, because I get the feeling that he could be scum btw. If texcat isn't scum, and I have my doubts regarding BC being scum, KT could very well be one. At any rate I don't see him not getting mislynched if he is town further down the road, and if he is scum he can get away with this kind of play till the end of the game. We will always doubt KT unfortunately, unless people have a different opinion on him.

I also think his vote will matter a lot more in the later stages of the game - if he is town, he will be kept alive 100%. No scum will take him out. It will be a lot easier to manipulate him then some of the others.

KT needs to step up his game big time. I kind of feel bad about posting this personally. Unless he is scum - then he is actually playing to his win condition.

[chilledtea]

I think we should pressurize KT by voting him, personally. To see how he would defend himself.

[chilledtea]

Then come day 4 or 5 he is either going to be easy mislynch candidate/ manipulation candidate or if scum he is going to win. He is, actively playing on scum's win condition, lurking, not adding much to the discussion, practically unlynchable but also not much participation.

[chilledtea]

What is happening is that we have heavily underestimated him throughout this game. I don't like that.

[chilledtea]

I would be against an acryon lynch personally. If it is possible someone needs to make a case on BC because both you (anen) and MKA think they are scum. I am having difficulty reading them. I can actually see them as town - but as scum it seems difficult.

I would be OK with kop but I think that would be a compromise lynch.

Also, anen, KT is not confirmed town. Let me remind people that he could be scum, and there is no reason why we shouldn't expect more from him now that we are in Day 2.
The "scum could just get on his wagon without fos" doesn't mean much if he is scum himself.

[chilledtea]

I would be against an acryon lynch personally. If it is possible someone needs to make a case on BC because both you (anen) and MKA think they are scum. I am having difficulty reading them. I can actually see them as town - but as scum it seems difficult.

946 and his whole Day2. It's emptier than it looks and lacks real scumhunting. Also, his town-meta I know is very different to this.

Also, anen, KT is not confirmed town. Let me remind people that he could be scum, and there is no reason why we shouldn't expect more from him now that we are in Day 2.
The "scum could just get on his wagon without fos" doesn't mean much if he is scum himself.

I've never said KT's confirmed town.
As for the next part, it's more likely that scums would build a counter instead of jumping on him. Especially in this situation; we're basically stalled.

Why are we stalled?

Guys, I've never played with Scum!Ranger, so I wouldn't know for sure, but I'm sensing something is off with her persistence on lynching an unCC'd BG. If we're in scenario 5 she's probably the follower, and she verified my claim to be true so she can't wait to get rid of me bc her team prefers not to waste a NK on me.

I know it's a useless answer but something is not right. I don't know what to think of this or of Ranger or of something I can't put my finger on.
I've quoted this only to draw others' attention to this topic too.
Update because of later posts. The above goes for their whole interaction.

Oh I meant make a case on Burning Crystal. I read that post and I agreed with it initially but I have a gut feeling that acryon maybe town.

[chilledtea]

The funny thing is, when I asked KT for his read list (who are you suspicious of?? etc etc), he didn't answer back. In fact, he only answers back in one liners the way he did, and generally in a way where no one will take him seriously.

For eg, it is clearly OMGUS behaviour at the moment. No one will take seriously, most would ignore him, and concentrate on the remaining 12(including dead) players. This has been happening since day 1.

Anyways, I think it should be either KT or Kop.

[chilledtea]

I can see town BC doing everything they are accused of doing as scum in that case.

Like I get the feeling that lot of meta stuff is happening here - I have never played with either of the heads of BC before so it's just difficult for me to see them as obvscum or whatever.

I will say that if people want BC lynched then I wouldn't be opposed but I still think that both Kop and KT are better options. The only reason people think KT is town (including me on day 1) is because we consider him newb town. I think that is potentially underestimating.

Kop on the other hand hasn't done much scum hunting and has only jumped on wagons. Never tried to start one.

I am starting to think that it is possible ranger is scum as well.

[chilledtea]

I can see town BC doing everything they are accused of doing as scum in that case.

Like I get the feeling that lot of meta stuff is happening here - I have never played with either of the heads of BC before so it's just difficult for me to see them as obvscum or whatever.

I will say that if people want BC lynched then I wouldn't be opposed but I still think that both Kop and KT are better options. The only reason people think KT is town (including me on day 1) is because we consider him newb town. I think that is potentially underestimating.

Kop on the other hand hasn't done much scum hunting and has only jumped on wagons. Never tried to start one.

I am starting to think that it is possible ranger is scum as well.

If people want BC lynched, you surely will need a reason to vote for that lynch, not just because people want someone lynched, what you said, is band wagoning, oh hold on, that's what you are accusing me off, carry on.

What are your reasons for thinking that Ranger could possibly be scum?

What I meant was I wouldn't go and defend her from being lynched and I might help out by voting her if people think she is better than no lynch.

However, I think you are different. From Day 1 I've had my eyes on you, and I felt a little better about you but now because of several reasons including PoE you are back on my scumradar.

[chilledtea]

I am sorry but I just did such a quick 180 on my reads regarding BC.

I am now so close to thinking she is scum. Like 90% sure.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Burning Crystal

[chilledtea]

Burning Crystal and Kop are both scum.

BC's analysis is hogwash, nothing else. For eg, a PGO doesn't kill anyone, people who target him get killed. Seems like a kopout excuse.

If she wanted to get a kill on her she wouldn't include PGO in her analysis.

[chilledtea]

I am sorry but I just did such a quick 180 on my reads regarding BC.

I am now so close to thinking she is scum. Like 90% sure.

Would you mind guiding me through your thought process here?

Why do you care about the setup so much? Your close mindedness regarding the setup makes me believe you have more information than me. I don't think you are vanilla town and I don't think you are town.

Such strange theories regarding Kuroi and frankly some of them just very strange. Like unless you were blocked you couldn't really have realistically known that Kuroi targeted you; but you are VT right?

And then the strange insistence that there are 2 scum teams out of which one consists of Anen and MKA. I don't even see how anyone can come to this weird conclusion and frankly I would be even more confident that you are scum if you were right in your theory.

[chilledtea]

My questions to you are in this format in the quote :

In this case a good night's sleep had more to do with it, but appreciate the attempt.
BTW, got any reads?

Anen

is still scum.

1 - Can I get some reasons on this?

Kop

feels town. Everything I have questioned of his doesn't feel nefarious at all, and 1030 feels much more likely to come from town than scum.

2 - Is it appropriate to judge a person on one post?

Burning Crystal

is a big question mark for me. A big part of my feeling of the slot being town has to do with me really not liking the wagon. The slot itself I'm not so sure about, but I know I'm still not happy with the wagon.

3 - Why do you not like the wagon?

[chilledtea]

Maybe BC's scumpartner can't find anything to defend. Maybe Ranger is the BC scumpartner.

[chilledtea]

BC could also be the serial killer btw. This is assuming that what almost is saying is true.

[chilledtea]

BC could also be the serial killer btw. This is assuming that what almost is saying is true.

Right. I guess I'm hesitant about pursuing things with the assumption that this is MB when we don't have that confirmation.

Uhh...what does MB mean here

[chilledtea]

I am not sure if there was any intention behind that post. I side more with the possibility that it could have been a slip.

[chilledtea]

I will -once again-repeat this: The ideal lynch is KT. It will remove much confusion and provide some pointer at the very least, but I also genuinely think it will remove one scum off the game.

You don't think Burning Crystal is scum?

[chilledtea]

You don't think Burning Crystal is scum?

Nope. I think they're leaning town. KT is my top scum read actually. I think all his posts are meant to distract and shed doubts.

Please defend them then. Why would they give so much importance to setup and why would they think regarding kuroi protecting them, and two scum teams especially to the precision of the contents of both the scum team?

They say they are vanilla town as well. Considering that, unlike you, they should have zero information regarding setups. Instead they are rolling in setup guesswork. I just can't see vanilla giving a damn about setup, unless it actually mattered.

[chilledtea]

UNVOTE:

I am still not sure. But they make sense in a way.
Like I still don't like their reasoning regarding their assumption of 2 kills. But ultimately it was indeed a vote on the basis of a couple of posts, and in my experience it is best to wait for some time.

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxm, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

[chilledtea]

I am always ok with KT lynch. I am not sure about Anen, but he has given me strong town vibes during day 1. Just difficult to see him being scum.
I would be happiest with kop lynch.

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

[chilledtea]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

Is that the same tunnelling your using on me then? You've scum read me pretty much since you walked into the game, I don't actually think you've changed your mind regarding myself, and I asked you before to give me a post I can actually defend myself with, I don't recall you actually doing that. Your vote is on me again, and still haven't given me a case to answer too.

It is not a single post.

Also come on now. I didn't tunnel you. Even during day 1 when I voted you, I decided to take it easy and decided that BC and texcat were the best options.
I will try to express my doubts regarding you using several posts.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Texcat

I'm down with that.

If we can't get any further with this wagon, I propose a no lynch. We are walking into dangerous territory if we go from wagon to wagon and get them close to a lynch, before changing due to roleclaims etc.

Even KainTepes recognized that no lynch was probably a bad idea. Your act surrounding "outing" power roles, seems fake. This is because I don't think we have that many power roles anyways. One of them is already nk'd, two of them have kind of claimed. When you made that post, all three of them had claimed. It seemed a fake feel.

Spoiler:

Right now this is where am at.

Town - Almost50, Davesaz

Leaning Town - Acryon, ChilledTea, Xtom

Can't get a read properly - Mad King Ashnard, Ranger

Leaning Scum - Aneninen, Burning Crystal,

Scum - Kaintepes

So I wouldn't mind a lynch out of the bottom three.

Talking about inconsistencies, out of all the people KainTepes is supposedly your scummiest read. He actually hasn't done anything at all to even be considered the scummiest person, and what's more, you are doing nothing to push for his lynch even considering the fact that there are so many willing to go the route of policy lynching him including myself.

I mean, even apart from these two posts, your opinions have never been concrete. You have never pushed for anything, and it seems like you don't have much belief in your own reads. You proceed to vote Ranger later on for eg: what came of that?

I definitely think you are scum now. There is a difference between day 1 lingering suspicion and day 2 more concrete suspicion and this is my day 2 suspicion.

[chilledtea]

What about Kuroi the Jailer? I believe he had already claimed back then. The weak bodyguard, the crumb, meant that three power roles were already outed/pseudo-outed.

Your reason for no lynch means nothing because people were going behind suspects not just randomly selecting people to lynch. There are always few power roles, and this game has made it certain that there are at least 5 town citizens. Fear of hitting power roles is something that I can't relate with at all.

You haven't pushed for anyone. Other than KT in the beginning of the game.

Bare in mind that unfortunately there is process of elimination working here as well. I am suspicious of you because others have done a better job of scumhunting imo than you have.

But I am so sceptical of lurkers. Lurkers reduce the game to basically townies blabbering with each other and then make the town lynch the scummiest town player. This is something I am learning quite a lot here on MafiaScum.

[chilledtea]

Spoiler:

ayy let's lynch little miss have-my-partner-vote-me-right-after-I-declared-a-townread-on-you.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

I haven't spoken with RC about this game since Day 1 but I know we agree on BC scum. Anen he was townreading and I'm honestly not sure what to make of, I'll probably get around to isoing him at some point.

I'm leaning scum on BC but I'm potentially willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for now. Still not a huge fan of the Adenine wagon.

Ranger, why Acryon?

What can I say?

Still want BC dead, don't really feel the anen wagon. Honestly still reeling from the texcat flip, ordinarily I'd talk with RC though I haven't seen him on skype for like a week now. Could also settle for kop at this point.

prodge
activity coming at some point etc

Still letting Raskol take the reins here.

Something something lynch titus.

Actually, Titus, RC head has absolutely nothing to do with why we're voting you.

This is Raskol's game. He's been lurksacking it lately so I might catch up and do stuff but I'm mostly here to bounce reads off and to make sure he doesn't get mislynched.

Hey Ranger,

This has basically been the entire game.

And I'm sick of it.

~tn5421

You guys so fucking started it.
I was perfectly happy to not go near her for a while until YOU came in and voted us after Titus townread me.

Ranger, consider Almost50 confirmed town.

What are your reads in this game?

This is MKA's entire day 2. I mean, this is just ridiculous.

Look man, I understand you hate BC but this game consists of more than one scum, care to give your reads regarding other people?

[chilledtea]

LIke my problem is I am unable to unite myself with my townreads because two of them are lurking. I am starting to question if they are even town here.

xtoxm coming at the end of the day and then saying we should lynch KT. I mean we could have lynched KT at least 5 days back if that's what he wanted.

[chilledtea]

Guys, I'm not feeling too confident in Kop's lynch. He doesn't strike me as anything scum would do in this situation. He's neither desperately defensive nor is he trying to counter or start another wagon. He's acting defeated distributing curses and creating WIFOM.

I'm sorry, but I'm much more comfortable with a KT lynch.

VOTE: KT

There is 20 hours remaining. This will lead to no lynch.

[chilledtea]

Except I am considering you town.

I also agree with xtoxm that he agreed to not being too good at scumhunting. That is fake. How can he say he is not that good at scumhunting?? You realize that if he was town he would be in uninformed majority, thereby unable to know whether he is good or bad unless he actually caught a scum?

He knows that what I meant by not good at scumhunting it meant casual lurking. When it came to lynching BC he was ready, wasn't he? If he is not "good" at scumhunting, how would he reach that conclusion?

He has no defense to this accusation. As scum, it doesn't affect his morale at all if he accepts that he has not been scumhunting. But as town, he wouldn't be saying that because he would always doubt either me, or someone else making that accusation. He would wonder whether it is scum making that accusation. He would wonder what the hell chilledtea has done to accuse me of this when chilledtea himself ran a lynch of texcat.

Almost, I am so sure he is scum. I am willing to go for his lynch instead of KT. I think his lack of defensiveness is probably because that is one way for him to escape a lynch.

[chilledtea]

Don't hammer. Let this discussion go through. I am very interested in it personally. Let MKA read through anen and lets see what he says.

[chilledtea]

Hmm.

There are two kills which means that burning crystal was correct. Which means we either have a serial killer or a two scumteams.

Regardless of the fact, there seem to be only 4 townies left.

I was definitely wrong about several people. That is for sure. Now all that remains is, who are those people that I was wrong about?

[chilledtea]

It is also possible that almost died because of his weak modifier. In fact I am sure of it. In which case if there is a PGO we have a total of 5 townies, otherwise we have 4 townies.

I don't feel like there is a PGO. But if there is, we will come to know.

[chilledtea]

Actually, wait. It is best to assume there is no PGO in this game. Almost targeting a PGO would mean he would be dead even though PGO is town.

That would be ridiculously complicated and unless there is proof, it is better to assume there is no PGO.

[chilledtea]

Assuming there are 4 townies left, if we lose two more next night, without lynching a scum, then practically we have lost the game. In case a serial killer exists we are outnumbered by mafia, otherwise we are just flat out outnumbered 2 : 4.

If we lynch the serial killer, then we reduce a kill every night and if we lynch mafia then it could be effectively 2 : 3 : 1 tomorrow.

This is assuming the worst, that we lose 2 town tomorrow. Losing Kuroi was really bad.

[chilledtea]

I am not sure about anyone except davesaz, acryon at the moment. xtoxm hasn't been posting much and lurking and I am always suspicious of towny looking lurkers. There is a chance that maybe almost might have targeted ranger last night and died? I don't like ranger that much again. I believe Kop was suspicious of ranger as well yesterday.

I am glad I was right about MKA. But I am probably wrong about anen being town - OR BC being town. I think either of them have to be scum at this point.

If KainTepes is scum I will never know. I think he might be because of such a small sample of town remaining. But if he is town then we are effectively one less town.

[chilledtea]

Almost forgot.

VOTE: Anen

Still scum. Ranger too.

What do you think of BC? I am struggling to read her at this point.

[chilledtea]

No, all kills may have any flavor on them, but are functionally undifferentiated.

Oops sorry, I forgot you answered this.

Just talking out loud here, but we have a cop somewhere with

two innocents

. That gives us 3 confirmed towns. With 2 NKs, I almost wonder if its worth them claiming today to make our discussions a lot clearer while we still have townies alive. Someone feel free to tell me why this is bad, because I haven't thought it through TBH.

Any specific reason as to why you think the cop has innocents?

[chilledtea]

Ranger is scum. I had a feeling with her nonsensical tunnelling of almost who was unclaimed bodyguard. The shift in her tone in the last post + her ridiculous assertion on me - I am thankful for that because now my job of finding the remaining scum has become easier.

Acryon's recent post gave me pretty bad vibes and I am not sure what to do about that. Unless innocents is used to indicate investigations it doesn't make sense how acryon knows that the cop has two innocents. He could be having a guilty.

[chilledtea]

The game is very clearly setup 12 because chilledtea is pretty blatantly broadcasting, "oh, yeah, I'm scum and I know the setup", and via the posts, very obviously it's 12.
Setup 10 is impossible, because

1 Town Jailer, 1 Town Cop, 6 Town Citizen, 1 Town Weak Bodyguard, 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 SK

...It has 3 scum and chilledtea is acting confidently in there being four.

2 mafia goons + 1 mafia godfather + 1 sk = 3?

How is that 3?

[chilledtea]

If there is a PGO then we have 5 townies left. I doubt there is a PGO. Burning Crystal said as much.

[chilledtea]

I want to know more from davesaz. Davesaz, just tell me what you think regarding ranger. Her analysis, etc.

[chilledtea]

2 mafia goons + 1 mafia godfather + 1 sk = 3?
How is that 3?

I misread. I was sure that setup was 1 goon + 1 godfather + 1 SK = 3 scum.

So, I was wrong.

My analysis remains unchanged in this case, though:
You are still scum with acryon, and probably the power role of your scumteam.
There are still four scum in the game and you still went "herp derp there are four scum in the game, we're gonna win, trololololol".
Burning Crystal is still scum, if I had to guess, scum opposite of you, being either a serial killer (10) or second scum (12).
The only difference here is on {KainTepes, Xtoxm}.
If Xtoxm is a tracker, he's town. If he's not a tracker, he's scum.
If KainTepes is a tracker, we're in setup 12. If KainTepes is not a tracker, then it depends: if Xtoxm is also not a tracker, then KainTepes is VT and still town. If Xtoxm

is

a tracker, then KainTepes is scum.

So basically,
Xtoxm is only town if he's a tracker. Otherwise, he's scum.
KainTepes is only scum if Xtoxm is a tracker. Otherwise, he's town.
{acryon, chilledtea} are still scum together; {Burning Crystal} is still scum and probably their opposite.

Though...all this analysis supports one course of action: lynch within {acryon, chilledtea} because if we

are

in setup 10, lynching Burning Crystal (who would be the serial killer in that case) loses us the game instantly.

So, can you tell me where I went "We are gonna win , trolrolorl" or whatever?

[chilledtea]

954 is also classically noncommittal on acryon. 1093 comments on the three power roles but doesn't mention why he doesn't like my suspicion on acryon. 1134 is WILDLY inconsistent: "I'm against the acryon lynch" implies a reason for it. Yet in that same paragraph, we get "I cannot read him", which is

not

a reason to be against a lynch...to the contrary, it's potentially a reason to support a lynch: see also, how chilledtea is okay with policy-lynching a player like KainTepes. Then, finishing, you get "I can see them as town", contradicting the statement of being unable to read them.

The real seller is 1240: chilledtea asks some empty, worthless questions to acryon...and then,

never follows through with them

. At all. The subject is just dropped, with no continuity. Did chilledtea just forget, altogether, about them? Was acryon's answers simply SO satisfactory that chilledtea didn't even so much as give a "mkay, makes sense"? Yeah, no. It's because it was an empty interaction, meant to look good without actually going anywhere. You can see it because in chilledtea's next mention of acryon, 1301, makes no reference to the interaction at all. He also goes into no detail about the read at literally any time.

This is because the interaction is shallow and fake.

This is really bad analysis because when I said that they are difficult to read, I meant BC. Please don't lie.
Also, acryon did answer those questions.

1242
And I did refer to them, Ranger. The next post is literally me talking about possible BC partners.

[chilledtea]

There's also how chilledtea has driven

both

lynches this game.

I was firmly against a texcat lynch, which chilledtea spearheaded at deadline to go through anyway.
I was firmly in support of the Kop lynch, but chilledtea pushed it even harder than I did.
So now, all chilledtea has to do is push

one

more mislynch through in order to win.

Yeah, but if we didn't lynch texcat we would be lynching BC. You on the other hand wanted an almost50/kuroi lynch.
If we didn't lynch kop it might have been anenien. Which we were both against.

Are we really trying to twist the history here?

[chilledtea]

Seems like ranger really wants me lynched.

[chilledtea]

So, can you tell me where I went "We are gonna win , trolrolorl" or whatever?

Hmm. There are two kills which means that burning crystal was correct. Which means we either have a serial killer or a two scumteams. Regardless of the fact, there seem to be only 4 townies left.

"Ha, I cannot lose! I can maybe draw if things don't go according to plan, but I'm probably going to win!" 1432/1433 also show faked efforts to not know the setup.

Assuming there are 4 townies left, if we lose two more next night, without lynching a scum, then practically we have lost the game. In case a serial killer exists we are outnumbered by mafia, otherwise we are just flat out outnumbered 2 : 4. If we lynch the serial killer, then we reduce a kill every night and if we lynch mafia then it could be effectively 2 : 3 : 1 tomorrow. This is assuming the worst, that we lose 2 town tomorrow. Losing Kuroi was really bad.

This is just plain gloating. "Your protectives are dead. We're not likely to be lynched. We're winning." 1436 is focusing on every lynchable player and taking waffly stances on them all, effectively saying, "I could lynch any of them, whoever's most convenient to vote!" (It also, coincidentally, elevates acryon to the level of confirmed town for absolutely no reason.) 1438 is saying, "Yo, if we lynch BC, we win because nothing could stop us then!"

It's all fake, it's all sending the message of "We've already won, we just have to not literally claim scum". It's dicking around without actually being productive, actually being firm, actually doing work, because at this stage you believe none is necessary. No need to sort alignments, because you know them already. No need to try and figure out who's a mislynch, because you already know who is. No need to try and sort the game at all, not even fake it, because you're in a position where players thought you were town and you were confident this would remain unchanged today.

I am sorry but I don't know why you think I am celebrating in those posts. I am not sure whether you are just not able to understand the situation or if you are scum trying to give an evil slant to my posts.

[chilledtea]

Davesaz, this is a repeat, whenever possible I want to know what you think of Ranger and her analysis.

[chilledtea]

He didn't even stick with facts to do it.

We've been claimed since

yesterday

and

claimed again at the top of the page

.

Anen's obvious scum here. Since he passed me back control again, I'm going to take a shot at his partner(s) for whoever's left.

Chilledtea, you're up.

Before I claim, I want to know how popcorn works and what we are supposed to do.

[chilledtea]

I am the tracker.

Popcorn Ranger.

[chilledtea]

I've got a guilty.

Should I still do it? Or can it wait until everyone has claimed?

[chilledtea]

So then, Popcorn Ranger. I will share my results after everyone has claimed.

[chilledtea]

Davesaz is the cop? Yes? I am assuming so.

All right. Xtoxm (killed) almost50 last night and (roleblocked) davesaz. (Night 2)

Acryon didn't go anywhere. (Night 1)

There are roleblockers in this game in both the scum factions and a roleblocker can both kill and block different targets on the same night. So acryon is not necessarily innocent, but I only became aware of it last night. After all the scum knew there was a tracker the moment bodyguard claimed - they all had a roleblocker amongst them. So I am pretty sure both the werewolves and mafia used their roleblockers to do the kills as well a block.

This is the reason why I considered acryon innocent throughout day 2. It is possible he is simple mafia goon or werewolf.

[chilledtea]

It is also possible that it wasn't xtoxm's intention to kill almost50 - he might have targeted someone else who was BG'ed by almost50.

I am not sure how the mod handles all that.

[chilledtea]

He visited both you and almost50.

[chilledtea]

Oh, so you think almost50 targeted you. That is possible I guess.

I don't think that happened though. I think xtoxm is the roleblocker.

[chilledtea]

Also, I wanted to say one more thing - Kain Tepes has a tendency of automatically voting some person. During LYLO or even without LYLO, this may lead to "accidental" lynching especially if the scum have daychat.

[chilledtea]

Admirable.

[chilledtea]

If I do get taken out, just remember that imo acryon is scum. Take special care regarding him and don't consider him confirmed town or anything because he didn't go anywhere. He could be sidekick of xtoxm.

And anen + Ranger is possibly the second team.

[chilledtea]

Oh yeah, right.

VOTE: xtoxm

Also if you want last minute discussions, do it.

[chilledtea]

I will try. Acryon was pretty town until the end of day 1 where he gave a pretty null reason to vote for Kop. I will see what I can find.

[chilledtea]

Although town, keep an open mind. Which goes without saying.

[chilledtea]

Chilled, can you case Acryon? I was hard town reading him and Xtoxm and Xtoxm was wrong, so I could use a little direction.

If you were town reading xtoxm and acryon, that means you were scum reading Ranger?

[chilledtea]

Yes, by PoE when we got to 4 person setup. I was scumreading you too by the same method though so *shrug*. We know based on Xtoxm's response to you, that my reads are uber wrong.

My next steps tomorrow will be VCA and then a full on reread.

You always knew that we are in setup 12. You always made that assumption. To you there were either 4 townies or 5 at most and you never believed that we have a PGO. So that means you should have been believing in 4 townie setup at the start of the day. Which means you should have been scum reading ranger, if you were town reading xtoxm and acryon.

[chilledtea]

I think that's a mischarachterization. Ranger appeared to be pretty certain Kop was scum. Kop flipped town. Same for Almost50. Ranger's naturally going to rework their reads. I would be more concerned if Ranger kept on the same path.

I am more concerned with KT's "rallying the troops" kind of post.

Then why is this a thing?

[chilledtea]

Lynch is easily Anen or Ranger today. I'd prefer Anen since I've been scumreading him the whole time, but Ranger is also a very prime choice. Specifically Ranger sheeped Chilled yesterday and now all of a sudden has 180'd on them based on just a couple posts.

I think that's a mischarachterization. Ranger appeared to be pretty certain Kop was scum. Kop flipped town. Same for Almost50. Ranger's naturally going to rework their reads. I would be more concerned if Ranger kept on the same path.

I am more concerned with KT's "rallying the troops" kind of post.

I think that's a mischarachterization. Ranger appeared to be pretty certain Kop was scum. Kop flipped town. Same for Almost50. Ranger's naturally going to rework their reads. I would be more concerned if Ranger kept on the same path.

I am more concerned with KT's "rallying the troops" kind of post.

I think there is a difference between a natural reworking of reads and immediately changing tune after the first couple posts of the day, although there's a reason I'm still on Anen and not Ranger.

Spots like KT's are terrible, and I honestly wish there was a broader definition of what defines trolling, because KT's presence in this game makes it worse for every person who is town, because who knows if they are town or scum? They don't say anything, just make noise.

You have to be scum BC. I think what you just did was an attempt at bussing your partner and making your faction seem a little better in front of the town.

[chilledtea]

You would be more "concerned" about Ranger if she didn't behave that way. I am sorry but that basically means you weren't that concerned back there. Knowing the situation and having strong townreads on xtoxm and acryon, while also knowing davesaz is the cop - there is no way you would be less "concerned" about ranger.

[chilledtea]

It is of utmost importance that apart from me and davesaz, whoever is the third and fourth townie, know who they are. And I feel that BC is not one of them.

Ranger has been hard defending Anen but hard tunnelling me. I don't know whether she is town.

Among the group of {BC, Anen, Acryon, Ranger} imo Acryon has been the least scummiest. I know this is contradictory to what I claimed before, but just bare with me. Both Anen and Ranger are at his throat. However Ranger took the time to "analyse" this and come to the conclusion that me and acryon are buddies which is impressive. There is indeed some truth to this, which makes me feel that Ranger could be town. However she could also be that scum who is just putting on a show to get me lynched and earn townie points in return - except she didn't know I am the tracker instead of scum of opposite faction. Her analysis regarding how we should lynch the goon instead of the roleblocker seemed practically fake. Both me and davesaz came to the logical conclusion that roleblocker should be lynched.

In my opinion, whoever asked for the mass claim was anti-town. Even though in a way that is what I prefer, but davesaz and me both thought that the tracker shouldn't claim. Tomorrow town is going to be reduced to at least 3 if not 2 (will be some miracle if I get away).

In some ways, maybe this is a good thing that we don't know for sure who are town. Scum will have to take a chance tomorrow if they have to get 2 town. And there just might be a crossfire if we are lucky.

[chilledtea]

Like, the chances of the two scum teams being :

{xtoxm, BC}

{Anen, Ranger}

is extremely high.

[chilledtea]

I have thought that BC seemed too well informed for a while. I took the early day statement that the tracker might have a result as a soft claim, but it now makes much more sense as an attempt to get the tracker to reveal.

Unfortunately, it comes down to town can only win if at least one scum team goes for a kill on the other.

I did mess up on the start of the day. Because of which me claiming might have been a good thing. Scum could have known I am tracker somehow. But chances of town winning low now.

When I lamented loss of Kuroi, this is what I meant.

[chilledtea]

Ranger why did you think I was the roleblocker?

[chilledtea]

WHO HSOULD I VOTE FOR??? THIS GAME IS CONFUSING NOW????

Please. After this day (day 3) you will enter a more complicated phase. During day 4 and day 5 the scum will keep you alive. Do not just vote for anyone without thinking, it is better if you don't vote at all and wait for whomever you are townreading to put his vote down. In fact put your vote at last.

[chilledtea]

Ranger, if you really are town, then there is also a small chance of {anen, kt} being the scum team.

[chilledtea]

Ranger, why didn't alarm bells ring in your head when BC did something similar on day 2?

You should have reacted in the same way on day 2 but you didn't!

[chilledtea]

Yeah but you didn't go for her lynch. From my perspective I was never the VT so I couldn't properly ascertain if she was acting.

[chilledtea]

Apparently we are unauthorized to read Mod PT.

[chilledtea]

Be aware that there was a mod error. On the 2, when Mad King died, they were guarded by Aristo. Due to how how kills resolve -simulatneously- Mad King should have survived.

Who is aristo?

[chilledtea]

I highly doubt that the mod error was intentional. Really doubt pisskop would put 9 players into jeopardy because of 1 grudge. This was most likely unintentional.

[chilledtea]

If the mod error was intentional then what happened was basically pisskop kind of ruined his own game and I fail to see why he would do that. There is no reason, he probably felt pretty bad about it himself.

[chilledtea]

He is probably trying not start another fight.

I saw the dead thread and his response to a50 seemed genuine enough. If you guys had history he probably was very wary of how to approach this mistake.

Innocent until proven guilty. Also it is his game and if he ruins it himself then I don't see what we can do about it? We played in the spirit of the game, the end. And mod errors do happen, especially in complex setups like this.

Pisskop, I would like to give some feedback. Next time when someone gives a night action, please send him a receipt of the action through PM. You don't do that and a50 has no way of knowing if you caught it.

[chilledtea]

He is probably trying not start another fight.

I saw the dead thread and his response to a50 seemed genuine enough. If you guys had history he probably was very wary of how to approach this mistake.

Innocent until proven guilty. Also it is his game and if he ruins it himself then I don't see what we can do about it? We played in the spirit of the game, the end. And mod errors do happen, especially in complex setups like this.

Pisskop, I would like to give some feedback. Next time when someone gives a night action, please send him a receipt of the action through PM. You don't do that and a50 has no way of knowing if you caught it.

This is called confbias.
You haven't even considered my side, you had the decision made and you're not considering evidence.
His reaction was not even close to genuine. This may be the same slimy shit that you just don't see which led you not to lynch KAAG.

Okay this made me laugh.

[chilledtea]

Am I not correct?

You showed me in the KAAG game that you can't effectively read people's AtE's for genuineness when you townread all of KAAG's AtEs and he was scum.

This is the exact same thing, outside of a mafia game or inside of it. And isn't this why we play mafia? To see through those who would otherwise manipulate us?

That game was my first game. I was not open minded and was trying to be a hero. I had KAAG caught on day 2 itself but felt it was impossible that I caught in day 2 itself.

Look. There is a reason why I caught xtoxm here. I haven't played for some time (like years) before that newbie game.

One thing I have realized is that we tend to sometimes close our minds to reason because of fear of manipulation. I think I did that with dierfire in that game.

KAAG manipulated a lot of people in that game but it improved me all right?

[chilledtea]

Also appeal to emotion can be genuine. But one should not depend on it. I have accepted that mislynching a townie if emotion is the only evidence against scumminess is probably better than letting scum get away with it.

[chilledtea]

Mafia PT?