Mini 1400(!): Bubble Tape Mafia - It's Over!

[AngryPidgeon]

Obv-town: Dave168

Hey everyone.

I know some of you.


VOTE: Cybertronix
Cyber is scum for post 10. Its pretty obvious.

Thor, are you town this game?
MM, are you going to flake and request replacement after lurking all Day? I'll PL that right now if so.
JFSF, are you bitter about disney villains mafia?

@Dunhamganger: Are you town?

[AngryPidgeon]

Errr post 11.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AngryPidgeon: Are you buddying me? How can you say "obv"?

Sure lets go with that. Your speculation on lynching unconfirmed players is prob-town. And no I dont have a magical 1000 word essay to justify that. What do you think about Thor being out of RVS in his first post?

WIFOM on the point about Mafia waiting to confirm so they get longer to chat. Taking this post with a pinch of salt since it all looks to be garbage.

Pretty sure Dave was implying it wasn't intentional.

My recollection of your bad methods is that I answer 'of course' you should just believe me.
Vote MM.

Naw, 'of course' is a scum tell. As is "My recollection of your bad methods is that I answer 'of course' you should just believe me." but you are scum independent of alignment.

Dude, cyber is scum. Not sure why I should deviate from voting someone who has already scum-slipped. Cyber, is MM your buddy?

P-edit: I think MM is town actually. Ok, I'll lynch Kushmasta

[AngryPidgeon]

If you believe that, why ask?
Derp.

Because I love you, Thor. IDK, there is no super method to my madness. I just like to have conversations with people until someone says something that makes me frysquint.jpg.

Im still sitting pretty on my Cyber vote. MM's 15 and 20 looked genuine and not forced. 26 not so much, but eh. I'll keep an open mind. And try to reread this when Im not at work.

Zipper is probably town too. Thor, be town. It would be a crime for you us to be town/scum in literally every game.

Ugh, I want to vote Zipper though because his username creeps me out.

Anyways, Kush and Cyber could be a team.

P-edit: There was no scumslip in post 11. But the fact that Cyber flat out ignored me saying there was is suspect. But its a scummy post anyhow. Bitmap did the same to me in Tintin mafia. "Well AP is aggressive as town so hes probably town this game" and I was town / he was scum that game. Im aggressive EVERY game and Bitmap was just using a lazy excuse to lob a townread in my direction. Kinda like what Cyber is doing here to MM in post 8 until called out by PapaSmurf.

[AngryPidgeon]

JFSF is town, wooo

[AngryPidgeon]

@Zipper and AP:

And here I thought the R in RVS stood for random, and used to generate discussion.

Did you really think that me saying "Cyber scumslipped" was random?

[AngryPidgeon]

@Cyber, Why is Thor a good lynch?

[AngryPidgeon]

But you aren't curious at all where the fuck my question came from since you never suspected Thor and I implied you did?
[img=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... inting.jpg][/img]

[AngryPidgeon]

[AngryPidgeon]

Dave, do you always go out of your way to address everyone? You are quickly killing what was a super firm townread on you. Stahp. Im going to buddy Thor instead. Why are you casting doubt on my Jake town-read? Do you think I am scummy for giving him a townread after hs posted 1 word?

Hi Thor! Thoughts on Cyber's response to me? Opinion on Jake?

P-edit: Hi Thor! Pretty sure Thor is town. I would know because *mumble mumble meta mumble gut reads HURRRRR*

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Dave

Lets see where this goes.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok. MM is town. Zipper is town. Thor is scum independent of alignment. Jake is town.

Dave is scum. Dave wagon gogoggo.

Dave, is post 24 scummy or just dumb?

[AngryPidgeon]

Uh oh, everyone's lurking because I pegged their buddy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi Thor! Thoughts on Cyber's response to me? Opinion on Jake?

P-edit: Hi Thor! Pretty sure Thor is town. I would know because *mumble mumble meta mumble gut reads HURRRRR*

1. I currently lean Jake scum and Cyber null with probably townish vibes, but neither read is very solid.

2. I still don't think you can read me for a hill of beans. We've already established in other games that you actually don't know my meta and I'm amazed you want to whip that out again.

Why are you ignoring the wagon on [insert obnoxious to type name here]?

Spoiler:

We've already established in other games that I don't do meta and I'm amazed you want to whip that out again. (But if there is something else you wanna whip out, lmk!)

And I am not ignoring ye olde wagon intentionally. What do you want me to say about it? My [insert annoying UN here] read is meh at best and hes already at 5 votes. In fact his last post is prob-town. Dave, on the other hand, is scummy-as-shit. Ugh, WHY IS THOR ALWAYS SCUM FML.

AngryPid

G

eon)

<3

uh.. Khakis

Mmmm. And whats underneath them? Wait, you are a girl, right?

@AngryPidgeon: Are you buddying me? How can you say "obv"?

This post rubs me wrong. The phrasing of the question is really pointed.

I think DoubleJD is town.

Thor/Dave 2012. Maybe they can fix the economy.

Le preview edit: Starting to think Cyber and Kush are both town.

[AngryPidgeon]

lol Thor. Go ahead and pretend my *mumble mumble ... HURRRR* statement was serious. I say pretend because I know you aren't that dumb that you don't understand jokes.

VOTE: Thor

Hes scum. Sheep me on this one.

Here is some fun and games. Read on me? Why is d3x town?

[AngryPidgeon]

^ Scum post.

[AngryPidgeon]

2. Wait, you can do snap scum and town calls and you can't spot that? Seriously, you have no read on him after that post at all? Ask me the question again and I'll answer, but I want you to clarify what your read is on him first - no reasoning needed, just your read.

Im null on him. Seriously. Asking a ton of questions is usually a nice way for scum to blend in and appear to be doing something, but I've seen town do it too.

Thor is scum for the following reasons:
1. Trying to discredit and cast doubt on my reads (particularly on him)
2. Implying he is town w/o actually saying it. (Especially the psentence about statistical likelihood of being on the same team)
3. Continuing AGAIN to harp on what_could_ be minor inconsistencies in my posts when he KNOWS that I dont do meta. I've explained that to him several times in the past.

Also his Kushmasta scumread is scummy and he should feel scummy.

Thor is the best lynch Today. I can't see that changing.

[AngryPidgeon]

So the team is probably Dex/Dave/Thor? Or is that too obvioius?

@Dex: Oh god, that lat post is awful posturing. "I bet someone on the first 3 votes is scum!" Ya, Thor. AKA UR SCUM BUDDY. OH NOEZ.

And my Cyber shenanigans was a reaction test. A sexy one. And cyber is probably town. So lets move on to bussing Thor, eh?

[AngryPidgeon]

Uh-huh...You get nothing from the fact that he read a discussion on meta by one player and decided to go independently verify it himself *and* found a discrepancy *and* then responded with that discrepancy by (unlike you) asking about it as opposed to just acting like his random thoughts are made of win and bacon?

That's pretty ruddy town.

No, not really. Using meta checks is a REALLY easy way to look like you are doing something. Both town and scum do it and its not really a tell. You just go look up a game, scroll, scroll, scroll OH LOOK PLAYER X DID SOMETHING IN THIS ONE GAME. Report back to the thread, post a link. Ding! Town points. And its adding on to someone else's logic (even if to disagree with it). It shows a lack of original thought since looking up meta doesn't require original thought. You know whats hard for scum players to mimic? Original town-motivated train of thoughts.

Your next points are even more obvious discrediting attempts and your read on me is hilarious. Derp or scum. Ok Thor. You are drowning in town-motivation. (Inb4 Thor saying "Wait I thought you had a scum read on me!")

P-edit: Cyber would you be willing to vote D3x?

Kush hasn't done anything scummy. He just said he doesnt care about the game and acknowledged that MS has different styles that he doesn't care about. Being emotional is a

town tell

. Or is it WIFOM? Thats what people try to tell me when I call out obvious AtE town tells.

Basically you've claimed the following.
1. You're not scumhunting.
2. The wagon on you is so bad you'll insult people but do nothing else about it (and will call this 'defending')
3. You don't actually care if you die, because you don't have any care about the game.

1. Why would scum claim that?
2. And you aren't insulting me for voting you? Oh wait, you ARE. You are calling me derp and telling me that I suck. Fancy that, this is a 2 way street Thor, be careful when you cross it.
3. Why does this make him scum? Scum do care if they die.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im willing to wagon Thor/D3x right now. Dave is nice, but a lesser read for the time being.

Kushmasta wagon is a bust - calling it now.

D3x's commentary is scumtastic. Thor's

commentary

blatant discrediting is obviously scum.

P-edit: How about Thor then? Look at his posts. Hes just flinging mud at me for attacking him and implying that Kushmasta is scummy for doing that.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Dex: Here's a ? for you since everyone is content to let you hover around the thread like a scumbag:

Read on me? Read on Thor?

Why are you SO sure that one of the first 3 votes on Kushmasta is scum. Usually when people say random crap like that, they are scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP- How is Thor's p79 scummy? I happen to agree completely. I do not agree with the kush Wagon b/c it sounds like a policy Lynch as opposed to a scummy player on the hook. What do you find scummy about Thor's stance on kush?

Basically you've claimed the following.
1. You're not scumhunting.
2. The wagon on you is so bad you'll insult people but do nothing else about it (and will call this 'defending')
3. You don't actually care if you die, because you don't have any care about the game.

1. Why would scum claim that?
2. And you aren't insulting me for voting you? Oh wait, you ARE. You are calling me derp and telling me that I suck. Fancy that, this is a 2 way street Thor, be careful when you cross it.
3. Why does this make him scum? Scum do care if they die.

^Pfffff. Lynch that crap. D3x is so obviously scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Money where my mouth is

VOTE: d3x

His opinion that scum are in the first 3 spots of the Kush wagon has no base and is fake. Can you see yourself jumping to that conclusion? No. Good. no vote D3x for just saying random crap to look town.

His questions are null tells. Not scum hunting. His last post shows a clear lack of connection with what is actually happening in the thread.

This guy could not be any more fake than he is. Lynch it. Lynch it with fire.

[AngryPidgeon]

Who are you asking to confirm this? I'm really not sure I can be confident about a single scum, let alone three.

Im asking Dunhamganger obviously. And ya Im pretty confident at least 2 of you are.

Wouldn't me changing my mind a lot be indicative that I in fact DON'T know who the scum are?

Well Im now listing you as obvscum. So Im scummy for everything I'm currently doing, despite past things becoming no longer scumy? MMMMhmmmmm. Tell me more, scumbag168.

Read on Thor? He is avtively trying to discredit me in his posts, confirm/deny?

[AngryPidgeon]

@Zipperflesh:......you scum? I'm not.

And are you accusing me or yourself of chainsaw defending?

Lol, Thor is doing nothing of the sort. Thor is just calling me an idiot and OMGUSing. (Not that OMGUS is a scumtell)

Zipper could be scum. And yes, consider this an OMGUS FoS.

[AngryPidgeon]

@ Thor - based on my skimming, no I don't feel he is. It looks like he's trying to appear busy, but nothing of value is coming from his posts.

This. So much this. Jake, I will buy your auto insurance if you just keep parroting this point around the thread until people realize its truthiness.

Also, you should vote him if you aren't presently.

p87- What are you smoking AP?

Nothing unfortunately. Thatm ay change though if Victor from my work actually starts selling me some goods if you know what I mean. (Im using green font for a reason)

kushWagon 1. SafetyDance 2. MaverickMaestro 3. Cybertronix

4. Thor665

5. zipperflesh

I don't give 2 shits about your obviously scum motivated wagon analysis. The difference between "One of the first 3 people on it is prolly scum" and "One of the first 4 people on it is prolly scum" is arbitrary as hell. What makes you think that THREE is the magic number specifically? Why is Thor not suspect in this bandwagoning scenario. Thor has even backpedaled now into saying that he thinks its a good PL and not necessarily a scum lynch. LOL. Screw that noise. And Im saying Thor is scummy. And you are scummy. Independent of each other.

My reasoning for saying that there's Scum in the first 3 {aside from a probably outdated meta about 3rd votes from when I last played} follows...

1. Safety voted for reasons I've listed elsewhere along with his continued posting w/o even mentioning the Wagon that he started.
2. Maverick follows with a scummy policy vote stance
3. Cyber follows with policy vote reasons

So? Ok so you think the individual votes here are suspect, where does the blanket statement that one of the first 3 is prob-scum come from then? Why not specify that the individual votes were what was scummy in the first place? Because the way you said it implied that the wagon was scummy and therefore someone on it was scum. (Which is true and that person has a "Best Mafia" bumpersticker and a beard.

Seriously though, why is Thor's vote not suspect? He is, much like scummy Cyber, voting for policy. And Thor has the added bonus of answering my post to him as if he thought Kush was scummy and THEN LATER backtracking into calling it mainly a PL.

I have no problem with Thor's speedwagon vote or zipper's sheeping vote.

Lol, why the fuck not? Someone saying "Lets speedlynch this" is less suspect than those other shit reasons you laid out for calling Bachelors 1 to 3 scummy?

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not going after Thor at this time. I have him in my 'leaning Town' pile.

Funny enough, I have you there, too. I just can't see a Scum motivation for attacking me the way you have. There would be far easier targets to go after as Scum at this point, imo.

Like Maverick Maestro? Ok, then why did you ask me why Thor's 97 was scummy if you think Im town AND you already agree with me?

side note- is anyone else having problems with their preview screens? After I get a lottle ways past the scrolling, it keeps jumping back up and won't stay to let me see what I'm typing. This is frakking annoying...

[AngryPidgeon]

Assertion that jake is actively trying to look busy: false. So very very false. In fact, Jake is being openly apathetic for the most part.

[AngryPidgeon]

I actually have no real read on you at the moment other than dislike of your playstyle

Oh Thor is voting Kush because HIS PLAYSTYLE IS ANTI-TOWN

@Cyber p89- AntiTown=/=Scummy. If that's your only reason for jumping on the Wagon, I see no reason not to...
VOTE: Cyber

Oh Cyber is voting Kush because his PLAYSTYLE IS ANTI-TOWN

Origianlly posted by D3x: "I have no problem with Thor's speedwagon vote or zipper's sheeping vote."

Time to self-vote in shame, d3x.

[AngryPidgeon]

The way I read it, Thor is voting for the Wagon. I actually don't have a problem with that. We need Wagons, reactions, debate, etc this early in the day. Saying that you're voting for someone for reasons that I deem scummy... is scummy.

This is the most fabricated crap I have ever read. Also when did Thor say that? He definitely DID say the following whilst voting Kush:

Exhibit A.

2. I actually

have no real read on you

at the moment other than dislike of your playstyle (but that is hardly a new thing in this game...). I'd probably go so far as to call the AtE (Appeal to Emotion) defense thus far as worthy of a decent knee-jerk lynch reaction from me. I do know that

if you're going to play like you have thus far that I don't want you in the game

[AngryPidgeon]

So Thor is admitting to voting for policy. Cyber is admitting to voting for policy.

You are voting for Cyber because of his vote on Kush. You are saying Thor is town and that his vote on Kush is justifiable even though his/Cyber's votes are basically identical (and they even have back to back posts that read the same 89/90)

I don't know why you are giving Thor a pass and I don't care. He may or may not be your buddy (I tend to think he is) but the point is that you are not being genuine. You are cooking up reasons to suspect or not suspect people and posting contradictions. And your last 3 posts were full of damage control.

@Thor:

Do you agree that D3x is posturing and taking a stance on you/Cyber that contradicts itself? Do you believe D3x is scummy because of that?

[AngryPidgeon]

2. I would agree there is a contradiction there, you should make a wagon happen.

Im voting him.

He accused you of voting for "the sake of a wagon". Is that true? Did you ever say you were doing that? Your vote has been a PL vote, correct? Why is d3x saying that Cyber's PL vote is scummy and yours isn't?

Also sec. in a game of lol.

[AngryPidgeon]

The point?

You do realize post 53 was talking about Thor's RVS vote on MM and not his vote on Kush?

@Thor: So you are agreeing with me that D3x's stance contradicts itself but refused to answer whether or not that is scummy. You instead gave me a hand-wavy BS response "Go start a wagon on him then!". I repeat. Is d3x scummy for that? Why are you on a PL when you agree that d3x islikely scum for takinga stance on you that contradicts itself?

[AngryPidgeon]

But, you know. Fuck context and all that shit.

[AngryPidgeon]

Honestly, both that and a policy lynch re really functionally two ways of saying the same thing

But you are town to him for voting as such and Cyber is scum to him for voting as such.

Why is that not scummy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow. I actually can't stand talking to scum-Thor. It makes me want to self-vote.

blatant discrediting everywhere.

[AngryPidgeon]

Thors vote was not. a PL vote.

He accused you of voting for "the sake of a wagon". Is that true?

Honestly, both that and a policy lynch re really functionally two ways of saying the same thing,

Thor just admitted to voting for policy 6 posts ago. Your point that he didn't is provably wrong. I don't even know what to say. This is going to be one of those games, isn't it? The game where I wish I were a vigilante.

------------------

Ok, Thor. You can argue that you didn't outright say it was a scum-lynch, but your response to my post HEAVILY implies it:

Also

his Kushmasta scumread is scummy

and he should feel scummy.

Do tell?

Why didn't you say "I don't have a scumread on Kush? Why do you think I do?" Or "What is scummy about my Kush policy vote?"

You can't tell me that post 88 isn't a

damn

good reason for me to understand that your vote on Kush IS a real vote. Why would you not correct me if you did not think Kush was scummy at the time? And yes I know you stated that your vote is a PL in the next 6 minutes and that is all well and good. But you can't argue that post 88 did not heavily imply it was a vote on scum. Why not call me out on being wrong in my assertion that it was?

You didn't say anything about your vote before that other than 'wagon ho' and

Why are you ignoring the wagon on [insert obnoxious to type name here]?

Am I turning into Mastin2?

Gah. Im actually really worked up now. So I'll post a reads list since that will take my mind off the horror of this thread.

Scum:
Thor
D3x

Possible scum:
Dave

Town:
Jake from All State
Cyber
Maverick M

Leaning town:
Kush
SafetyDance
Zipper

The rest:
DoubleJD
Devourer
LeonShade

[AngryPidgeon]

Lets see...Is it maybe that they are posting a lot BECAUSE I am walling up the thread with them? Oh, thats probably it. Me thinking they are scum ----> quote wars with them. Not: Quote wars ---> me think they are scum.

Correlation and causation. All that good jazz. I know I do need to see

more

anything from Leon and Devourer. Eh, maybe you aren't scum. But d3x/Thor are good votes and you should sheep it up.

[AngryPidgeon]

WIFOM reasoning

I feel my d3x contradiction was pretty conclusive and not based on WIFOM. He isn't thinking from a town-mindset. His questions are all easy to blend in with. His opinions on the Kush wagon do not make sense.

Read Thor's posts. Tell me he isn't acting superior for the sake of discrediting everyone around him. I never do meta cases but if it will convince you to vote Thor, I'll fish some supporting evidence up.

And don't EVEN tell me that maybe this is just Thor being Thor. He's pushing my buttons to make me rage and he knows it. Fuck that.

[AngryPidgeon]

Either sheeping is good, or it is bad. I'd assume that anyone who says something like "do what I do because I'm doing it" should not automatically be believed. Is that not what sheeping is? As soon as someone mentions sheep, does it somehow become a positive thing?

What is the point of this question?

Declaring intent to sheep / sheeping is not really indicative of alignment. So I don't really care too much what people say about it.

If anyone wants to do a thorn lynch, lmk. 50% chance he's scum, 50% chance we get rid if a player detrimental to town. Win/win IMO.

Call me, beep me if you wanna lynch Thor!
VOTE: Thor

& pidgeon - seriously, get off my jock. Idk if you are Town or scum, but i've never been buddied this hard in my life.

Have I played with you before?

This sheeping conversation is dumb and needs to stop. Sheeping may or may not be anti-town but it isn't scummy by itself.

2. Thor is a difficult read. I found that out during my last game with him. He's null.

Naw, Thor's scum. You should help me vote him. Also, Im town as hell right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

The UN vote had no motivation. It was me being strategically silly. The idea is to do tons of things and shift between them on a whim until something magical happens. Something that makes you just want to hold hands with everyone else in solidarity...and string someone up. If you look at the basis of my UN vote, it was basically a veiled joke.

Im pretty liberal with chucking reads around. If you honestly think I had a firm townread on you after posting a single word, then ..well that ain't me. But your general apathy towards the game is probtown.

And you promised me a Thorn wagon.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't think we have played together,

which is why

I find it odd you claim I'm town after 1 post and why you asked me about a game you never played in.

Would us having played together made me calling you town after posting one word less odd somehow?

[AngryPidgeon]

Because...? A one word post is totally meaningful meta-wise? : /

[AngryPidgeon]

and FWIW Im still somewhat convinced I have played with you.

[AngryPidgeon]

if we had meta, yes I would be less suspicious. I'd still be suspicious.

Can you clarify this for me? You'll understand if Im a little leery of this opinion. Although I did just reread our backandforth and I think I see where you are coming from but, eh.

Why didn't you comment on me bringing up Disney Villains until much later (too support your stance that Im buddying you?). Did my inquiry about Disney villains look like buddying?

[AngryPidgeon]

Lol. K I guess.

I just found it funny that you accused me of not knowing your meta whilst acknowledging that I've read Disney Villains (my opening post heavily implied that I had). So I at least have some of it. But meta isn't relevant any way you slice it if all you are looking at is "Sup".

In fact you accused me of not knowing your meta (and therefore being scummy for buddying you) whilst pointing to an instance of me clearly knowing some of your meta. I guess Id have to look at the big picture of our interactions; I found you focusing on that one post of mine specifically to be odd, but if your concern really comes from the big-picture of me calling you town across multiple posts , then sure.

And ya, I buddy a lot. But uh. I had something to say. And now I forgot it. Uhhhhhh. Oh, well your point about d3x looking like he was trying to fit in by asking questions but not actually providing any useful content was basically the exact same opinion I had and I was frustrated that Thor saying d3x was prob-town for it was getting more general support (Cyber sheeped that opinion anyhow) when it was clearly BULLSHIT. And I tend to buddy people who share my opinions.

[AngryPidgeon]

holy fuck I hate this site. I refreshed by mistake and I lost everything.

What browser are you using? I've never had that issue (Firefox). I sometimes accidentally close the tab Im typing in and I can get it back.

Lack of content is not scummy by itself. Do you think Jake was scummy for lurking around earlier?

And while I like the way you think - Cyber saying a cop is a good thing to sheep is fairly relevant (even if the discussion itself was pointless). Cyber and MM are both prob-town.

[AngryPidgeon]

...bwuh?
You said you found my scumread scummy - I wanted you to explain why (since I'd never made one).
You then dodged and dodged till this point.
Tell me thepost or comment I made BEFORE THIS where you decided I had a scumread...where is it? What post? That's what I wanted from you and kept requesting from you, and now we're here with me "implying" it *after* you got the vibe from me...so...the hell?

You never said what your vote was for. You voted and said 'wagon ho' and then asked me why I was ignoring the wagon. What do you expect me to think? Especially the asking me about the wagon part.

But lets not continue arguing BULLSHIT about perception / reality in this case. The endgames of both sides of our arguments is going to come to: "But you communicated poorly, its not my fault". And this conversation is a huge distraction from, you know, scumhunting. So lets not argue semantics and communication 101.
------------

AP's stance is that I'm scum.
My stance is that AP is scumhunting in poor ways.
We could easily both be wrong, also either of us could theoretically be right, or both right.
I strongly beleive I'm right and know he's wrong - but the point is for you to say what you believe and why. It's really not that complicated of a dustup.

What was the point of this post? Its 100% meaningless. And SD's opinion that we aren't both scum was not anything worth commenting on as that should be obvious.

Yes, Thor, but his point is that in you/Zipper games, you haven't done anything to show zipper that you are a strong sheep candidate. So why is Zipper sheeping you? But you are ignoring that point and walking down a different path. You are an expert at starting meaningless distracting tangents. Whats the buzzword? Smokescreening? Muddying the waters?

[AngryPidgeon]

Re zipper: No, thats not the point.

Bad/good doesn't matter. The point is that it is strange that Zipper is sheeping you given that you haven't necessarily played well in the 2 games you were in with him. Why is zipper so excited to sheep you? It does not matter whether or not its a good/bad idea.

The point

is that Zipper is going out of his way to do something (sheep you) when there is not any obvious reason for him to do so. Its weird behavior. Is it scummy? IDK. Maybe. I tend to doubt scum would be so blatant about sheeping someone in general.

[AngryPidgeon]

Sure, answer away. I don't think Zipper is scum anyhow.

Re Jake: He DID start by saying that sheeping you in general is bad. And then he evolved that into pressuring Zipper about his motives for doing it, citing his only games with you as reasons for Zipper's behavior being odd.

Is that really a logical basis to

argue?

(it might be depending on, say, Jake's Day 1 accuracy, or his belief that my Day 1 accuracy is below average...but just to say I've been wrong Day 1 is hardly an impressive call and not actually worth calling out as a specific...or is that just me? What are your thoughts?

Jake can correct me if Im wrong. He has 2 points. His point about you in general not finding scum D1 are troll and not impressive, agreed. And I don't think they were intended to be serious.

But he is also pointing out that

in the 2 games you played with zipper

you gave zipper no compelling reason to sheep you. So Zipper's blatant sheeping of you is odd. And I agree.

And I bolded argue because I would argue that Jake is not arguing a case, but rather questioning Zipper's motives.

(Damn you are good at getting me to waffle and talk about other things)

tl;dr: Zipper and Jake probably aren't scum. Are you trying to get me to say that Jake is discrediting you and that I shouldnt give him a free pass for that?

[AngryPidgeon]

Jake, you do see what Thor is doing right?

[AngryPidgeon]

Zipper liked my play enough he invited me to come play in a game he modded on a different site.
I owned the scum hard in that game and did rather well in the other game I played on that site. Really, even just the invitation suggested he liked something about my play - so the sheep thought seems highly logical to follow.

Cool, so this pretty much negates Jake's line of questioning and this entire offshoot that is spawned. Im glad we can drop it now.

Eh - he's advancing an opinion and thumping back at me when I attack it, that's an argument - but this is semantics.

If you had just said the above ^^^ sooner then you would have made a valid point explaining Zipper's seemingly scummy actions and not wasted tons of time spamming the thread. This is why you are scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

^ that but also he is successfully preventing other people from scumhunting.

[AngryPidgeon]

Dave, are you on Thor's team?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, dont give me that. You went on this long OMGUSy tangent about Jake saying you are bad and how that is really unjustified. Then you tried to relate that to his pressure on Zipper.

"'He's basically saying Zipper sheeping me is bad because I have been wrong...on Day 1'"

You even later admitted that the pressure on Zipper makes sense:

"nor did I mind the chance to see where Jake was going with the attack."

Despite saying that Jake's attack had no base. Cant have it both ways.

P-edit: LOLOLOLOL.

Originally posted by Thor: Im not wasting time! (But seriously Jake, I want you to explain how I wasn't playing well in this one newbie game despite that being both moot and subjective at this point.)

Re Jake discrediting you: Im shaking my magic 8 ball to figure out how to respond. It says "Its different. When Thor discredits, he talks down to his opponents and appears amiable to people on his side (Zipper). Jake's discrediting was not mostly a side-effect of questioning zipper's motives. Jake was not actively trying to use it as a scum tactic against those that disagree with him."

[AngryPidgeon]

not

[AngryPidgeon]

misleading and loaded question

Lol? It wasn't a multiple choice test FFS. You could have said "Im town." Or. "I don't know". Or. "I don't understand the question"

But you were in a flurry to answer it and you seem to care an awful lot about how your answer is perceived. Which is scummy.

Cyber/Zipper are my top town reads.
MM/Jake/Kushmasta/SD's-replacement are moderate town reads.

VOTE: Dave
I like where this wagon is going. Dave's starts by giving a meh answer, but then immediately feels the need to clarify it. And then he accuses me of setting him up after that. And to fulfill the self-fulfilling prophecy I am now voting Dave for his response to my question.

Eh, Thor might be town. Still doubt it. But d3x/DoubleJD are both making me

[AngryPidgeon]

hello!

[AngryPidgeon]

Jake/Thor/Dave: Read on DoubleJD?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, Dave's voting for him lol. Why are you voting doubleJD exactly? For being a lurker? Why would you vote him then over someone you think is genuinely scummy (me)?

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm hardly surprised to see AP and Thor both voting the same person.

What letter comes after x? Oh ya. ¿Por que?

Cause that opinion is a little silly. Unless you think Thor and I are scum-buds because player A suspecting player B but them both voting player C is actually an associative tell. (But Im town this game, so, Yar!)

Buuuut Dave is looking like scum. And Thor could easily be bussing him. Or maybe Thor is town IDK. My best bets are Dave/Thor/d3x/DoubleJD. UN's that start with D are scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

making up stuff and calling me scummy over it

Lol, yes Thor. Making up stuff. I would do that ever as town. And perhaps not 'misunderstand'. And even that never happened.

@Kthxbye: Ok, that sill makes no sense. Even if we are both town, why is it expected that we vote the same person? Clearly we have different playstyles independent of alignment, so why are you specifically commenting on how expected it is that we are voting the same wagon?

@Thor: Scummy obv. His MM vote sucks and "Zipper looks scummy as hell for sheeping Thor, but that isn't much of a case" is a questionable thing to say.

[AngryPidgeon]

@All- Thoughts on my Cyber case?

Cyber is obviously town and your case is scum-motivated.

Who cares if Kush posted 4 times after Cyber's vote. They were mostly insubstantial and small and lacking in content.

Scum love info posts because it gives them a way to appear active without actually contributing original thought.

Just a thought. Scum ALSO love asking walls of questions and catchup posts for the same reason. Im pointing at D3x here. But a vote for Dave is a vote for justice.

[AngryPidgeon]

The @Kthx thing snuck in...meh.

Glad to see we both find that comment weird.

Naw, I just fail para-phrased. I have been thinking about it a little bit though and maybe Im making something of nothing there. I have a hard time seeing scum say that as well. MM vote was still terrible though.

Still, Im cool with focusing on Dave168 today. He's awfully focused on silly things like scum-slips and how people perceive his posts. And he hasn't really said anything super-townie.

And I don't expect people to understand why this is scummy, but him listing a pool to lynch from (the late confirmers) that INCLUDES HIMSELF is a scummy mindset. Its what got me Reverend in NY159.

[AngryPidgeon]

Who are we talking about?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh back in post 1. Ya that post is pretty scummy. (But AP you originally said it looked town). Ya, well. Much like your GPS system after taking a wrong turn, I recalculated.

Very true. He is avoiding saying he is town (because he isn't). The "I don't Self-vote" line is prob from scum. Inb4 Thor calling me dumb.

Spoiler: Ok Im going to concisely as possible explain why his opening post is scummy.

Scum like to PROVE they are town or heavily imply it instead of outright saying it. (Inb4 Thor calling me dumb)
I can point to a few instances of it. More experienced players are, in general, more immune to this tell.

Dave is doing exactly this in his opening post. Why is he listing himself and making a big deal about doing so in his opening suspect pool?
Town wouldn't do that. Town would either not mention themselves at all (because they know they are town and don't give 2 shits about proving it / talking about it in the opening post) or would do so and say "But Im town" or "Im not scum" and move on.

Dave is trying to subtly imply that he is town because he is willing to vote from a pool of suspects that includes himself. Would Dave be so bold as to do that as scum? What if one/all of those people flip town? Tht would make Dave look bad by PoE.

Q: So why would he push that lynch pool as scum?
Well that is the exact thing he wants you to think. But the lack of town motivation in what he is doing is more telling than the slight WIFOM reasoning behind why he'd do it as scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok. You are voting Dave168 presently, so I frankly don't care. But I know from personal me-being-scum experience that I absolutely fall into that tell. So take it / leave it. Like I said, tell all come with a grain of salt as people become aware of them. But ESPECIALLY newer players fall into this. I dont want to comment on [ongoing] that Im not even in in newbie-ville but Im screaming while watching it because its so fucking obvious the whole game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Friendly reminder. Do not give Thor any townpoints for the Dave scumflip.

And that by itself isn't the tell Thor. But if you wanna discuss that tell over MD / PM, lets do it there.

[AngryPidgeon]

True. But there is nothing wrong with taking a mafia discussion to the mafia discussion forum so long as ongoing game details are not discussed.

Point being, Im not going to argue this tell with Thor in thread. If Thor is town, then I'm really really disappointed with him. And I'm noticing a trend with Thor. If I think Im going to be disappointed with him if he flips town, hes always scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Howdy, I've been paying attention to this game and will be posting some thoughts on those I have thoughts about later on tonight sometime. On phone now though. Note though, I'm hardly surprised to see AP and Thor both voting the same person. I certainly hope the back and forth epeen contest is over as it made the game so far really muddy.

this is a scum post if I ever saw one.

Ya, it kinda is.

@Thor: Why should anyone necessarily get points for it? Dave is saying scummy shit and is getting votes. End of story.

P-edit: Because it reads as BS? If we are town, why does that necessarily mean we should be expected to vote the same way? It really looks like posturing.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also it is kinda light buddying to one/both of us.

[AngryPidgeon]

the unsurprise to see us voting together is an odd comment

Most people don't actively invoke scum tactics when they play scum (you are an exception). Most people just try to mimic their town-meta or act natural.

Odd comments are scummy because, and I ask, "Why would town-Kthxbe say that?" It looks like a really forced opinion for the sake of having an opinion. For it to be scummy, there doesn't need to be scum motivation attached to it. It not making sense from a town-mindset is scummy in and of itself.

And it is buddying. (Although you don't realize that maybe because you are scum). He replaces in and immediately says "Ha! I knew the two of you had to be town!". To the two people trying hardest to lead the town.

[AngryPidgeon]

DoubleJD is off my hitlist. Kthxbye/Thor/D3x/Dave. 3 scum in that group. Probably KthxBye/Thor/Dave.

P-edit: No lol. I read disney villains kind of. Earlier Jake called me scummy for calling him town after one post and NOT having played w/ him before.

P-p-edit: Corrected on what?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh him calling us town. Ya.

[AngryPidgeon]

waiting for AP to do it for you

That can't be the case because I've

already

explained why its scummy. And Jake is obvtown.

And its not that you 'think' we are town. Its the way you went about expressing that and the conclusions you drew from it.

Here's a 2-way street. If Dave's 3x post is scummy why are you not voting him? Yet you accuse Jake of being scummy for not voting you whilst saying you are scummy. And Jake is using his vote.

[AngryPidgeon]

That would be Kthxbye. Because Thor is already bussing.

[AngryPidgeon]

And? Hes convinced you that he is town evidently.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP: glad you continue to obvtown people. You do realize that only scum are so sure.

Lol what the hell is this post. Im town. And yes some people are super obvtown when they are town. If you have a townread on me why are you lobbing this veiled "I might add you to my scumlist" threat at me? (Not that your scumlist is relevant seeing as how you are scum)

P-edit: Nothing. I just actually think about my games a lot outside of looking at my computer screen. And I think I responded to Thor saying that I was reading something into nothing regarding his statement about Zipper. Err, Zipper right?

[AngryPidgeon]

Naw, I just fail para-phrased. I have been thinking about it a little bit though and maybe Im making something of nothing there. I have a hard time seeing scum say that as well. MM vote was still terrible though.

Uhh, that was weird. Tried just submitting this quote 2 times and MS glitched on me. Testing testing 1, 2, 3?

^Quote of me saying I reconsidered what I found scummy about him.

[AngryPidgeon]

Thor engaging in pointless side-arguments is scummy AND a scumtell. Thor/Kthx/Dave. Woooo

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP: Do you know the precise number of scum in this game? Do you know how many scum teams? I am about to re-read all 15 pages, but I don't recall seeing that information anywhere. If I've missed it, would be glad for the link.

Provably 3 scum, 1 team. Maybe an SK, who knows. Probably not though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Errr, brobably* not provably.

[AngryPidgeon]

An action that advances a situation that will benefit scum more than town.

Yawn. And yes now Im using smilies to be superior. Most scum just try and blend in and faux-hunt. Actively doing anti-town shit is a good way to get lynched. In fact I would argue that scum are MORE careful to avoid doing "actions that advance a situation that will benefit scum more than town" because they dont want to be caught with their hand in the fucking cookie jar.

But this MD discussion is both an MD discussion AND anti-town. Self-vote in shame Thor.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Dave: no comment on my 351?
@Dunham/d3x. Would be nice. But I mean we cant ask Dunham to twist his rules. That said, Leon's activity IS unacceptable.

[AngryPidgeon]

Gosh Dave, that must hurt. Being ran over by a bus like that.

I actually looked up post 244 despite you (Kthx) being scum and despite d3x/Cyber probably both being town.

I could get behind a DaveLynch {later in the day}, but I like my CyberWagon a lot better.

I feel like p222 is just a nice little bait and switch {and potential easy bus}.

@All- Thoughts on my Cyber case?

Kush's 4 posts were void of content. And not really telling of anything. So why is cyber scummy for a pressure vote? Hes not.

And now Cyber is scummy for actually removing his pressure vote? Nope. And why should Dave necessarily care about some random post from d3x way back there?

[AngryPidgeon]

Zippers vote was L - 1 btw.

[AngryPidgeon]

But why that one

specifically

?

I dont see why you are bringing that one post up to make the point that Dave has no scumreads and should. Its like

Spoiler: Hey! Im not making WMDs in Iraq!

And I wouldn't know

[AngryPidgeon]

Mmm, I couldn't actually find a good video clip. But basically in that episode the US Gov asks Saddam if hes making WMDs and hes like

"No Im not making WMDs in Iraq! Look over here!" and he just points at nothing in particular. And I feel like that is going on here. With you being Saddam. And Dave being WMDs. And Thor being Iraq.

[AngryPidgeon]

Could you explain why I'm scum again AP?

This is a semi reliable scumtell too. Asking why you are scum.
P-edit: Ok, I guess. Are you coaching Dave then? Because I mean hes perfectly capable of looking back for old cases. And we get that he doesn't have any scumreads already.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lol? Go ISO me and tell me I never explained why I think he is scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

As for asking you to state your case, how is that scummy? I also asked why the 180 on d3x.

Re D3x: Not so much a 180. Just bigger fish. I'd mark him as nullish scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, and specifically I get the feeling that you are drawing attention to something to get pressure on it. Like D3x/Cyber. By bringing them up.

[AngryPidgeon]

lol. Hes only prob-town because you are scum and trying to redirect attention to him.

[AngryPidgeon]

Buuuuut if, lets suppose, you flipped town (you won't) hed be back in my top scummies.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yar. Im pretty excited to see Thor's take on this.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh also FWIW, if thor is scum D3x is prob town. Thor calling him obviously town and engaging me in discussion about it when I thought d3x was scummy, was probably Thor's way of trying to get me to think D3x was scum.

@Kush. It is. And I am actually 100% sure about Kthx being scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Dave pop quiz, ur role title

[AngryPidgeon]

Actually I dont care. This claim is bollocks.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh why am I on my phone. Let me finish doing..uhhh things. And ill be on for real

[AngryPidgeon]

Someone asked me for scum meta. Thirsty souls mafia in this forum by Konowa. Knock yoself out

[AngryPidgeon]

You still don't grok how I play as scum - but you're at least vaguely closer to the truth with this basic idea. Hint: I think D3x looks like town.

Its a sublte thing. You know I like to argue with you and you know I think you are scum. If you say 2+2=4 Im more likely to doubt that claim. And arguing it with you is reaffirming my belief in what I am arguing (because Im putting effort into arguing it and because I dont trust your side of the argument). So ya. If you are scum, I kinda expect D3x to be town and this to be why.

Re jakes 395: Your points are all great. I think you should hammer away.

Ya 397 is scummy as hell.

Yep, I dont buy the claim. My ENTP psychological personality type is telling me that Dave's emotions and thoughts surrounding his claim are not genuine.

This claim makes it slightly more likely that Dave has daytalk and is buddies with Thor. You should have meta'd me, Thor. I dont have a soft spot for PR claims. And I highly doubt Dave's role title is just 'cop'. Although Mod meta would be nice here and this is Dunham's first game. Minor point anyhow.

Yep. If I werent already voting Dave, I would hammer right now. No one comments on sanity when their role title is just 'cop' And non-sane cops aren't allowed in mini normals anyways. If Dave truly were a cop, he would have checked that fact. Someone hammer him before zipper actually unvotes.

tl;dr:
-Dave's excuse for not crumbing sucks. You dont think about crumbing, and then dont because its 'awkward'. You either do or you don't care enough to or you forget to.
-Dave's appeal to fear was a supposed 'crumb' "Don't make me claim its a bad idea". Which in itself is a softclaim and there is no way town Dave drops such a blatant softclaim and expects anyone to believe that it wasn't obviously a PR claim as is and therefore USELESS. Why not just full claim?
-Cop is a hard to believe role title. But possible. This is a minor point.
-The claim itself is awkward. A cop is a cop. There is no super need to paraphrase the role PM so explicitly because we already know what a cop does. Dave is just acting like he is parsing a role PM that doesnt exist.
-If Dave were a cop and had previously self-reflected on possibly being not-sane, he would have done enough research to figure out that that is impossible in mini normals. This is just more fake emotions / song dance about the role pm

Sorry Dave. No ill will. But you have a scum card and Jake should hammer that.

[AngryPidgeon]

To clairfy my point about crumbing since my english was awkward.

I strongly doubt that dave considered crumbing but did not out of fear it would sound awkward. Crumbing is not that difficult really and is kind of fun to do.

Not crumbing isnt a scumtell. But his reason for not doing so doesnt make sense. An actual reason would be one of:
1. forgetting (i Know I do)
2. apathy/not seeing the benefit (Im kinda here too)

[AngryPidgeon]

: /

What wrong with me being cocky. Its how I play. You could point to several instances of me being confident and being wrong. Top of my head: LS in open space, Bitmap in space mafia, FLP in mini 1365. Point being, what is your point? And why does that statement matter if you 'don't know if Im town or not'. Is it scummy or isn't it? And if it apparently is not indicative of alignment (as you saying that I could be town or scum suggests) why bring it up?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ironically people call me scummy for meta reasons if Im not.

Which is the other reason I think meta is hitler - people using it to make cases encourages people to not change/improve their town play or risk being called scummy. /side rant.

[AngryPidgeon]

lol. I guess Id be down for thorn or Kthxscum. Still prefer this.

[AngryPidgeon]

Was that the lolziest troll hammer ever? Hi qwints. Lets beast this shit up like futurama mafia.

But seriously. Dave was obviously scum >.>

Kthxbye should go next.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also qwints is practically conf-town. Just saying. Regardless of the flip. (but its a scum flip)

[AngryPidgeon]

Dave168 is L-1.

/confirm.

Dave is scum.

VOTE: Dave168

[AngryPidgeon]

You were saying?

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Jake from State farm

Your stance on "Ya Dave is scum, but lets not lynch him today" whilst not actively trying to rally support for a wagon you did care about is odd.

And accusing me of buddying you after one post really didn't make sense, context and all given.

[AngryPidgeon]

proTown

Well it wasn't, and I know I was calling for the hammer. It was a town-tell though, regardless.

Its unlikely that scum-qwints hammers a claimed town cop in his first post of the game. Its just a really bold move. And no offense to qwints, but I dont think hes bold enough to do tht as scum. Unless he had been watching the game and thinking to himself that Dave was obvscum all Day and then replaced in, sw the role PM, and said to himself "eh, I would have voted him as town anyways".

Still, I think the hammer is more likely from town than not.

p-edit: mmm. So presently Im willing to vote Jake/Thor/Kthxbye. I'd like to see Jake pressure.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP- A man could choke on that WIFOM.

Pfffff. Lol. Then what isn't WIFOM? Don't answer that, its rhetorical. And if you say vote count analysis then you are mistaken.

Stifling D1 conversation, not waiting to hear anything from multiple player slots, Hammering before a consensus has been reached on the claim. These things are all AntiTown. I'm not saying they're scummy just yet, but they're definitely not in the Town's best interest.

Ok, but anti-town does not mean scummy. Open Space just ended (open 452?) in which Aether got speed lynched for voting someone confirmed town in the previous phase. He flipped town and everyone was surprised. The point is that town players do anti-town things. I would argue that they do them more frequently than scum players.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think hes talking about the qwints slot. But stifling conversation is ridiculous - I think his predecessor just flaked. That not a tell.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, Mastin is in this game now lol. Hi Mastin.

@Mastin: Opinion on D3x? (And well, I'd appreciate it if you comment on all of my scumreads: Jake, Thor, Kthx)

[AngryPidgeon]

explain to me how that Hammer was proTown, plz.

Well it wasn't, and I know I was calling for the hammer. It was a town-tell though, regardless.

...and I want to know qwints thoughts from qwints. I apreciate the attempt at chanelling him, though AP.

I thought 475 was directed at me for my comments at the end of D1. I guess it wasnt?

P-edit: Lol, then what isn't WIFOM? What if Jake is town and has a policy for not lynching PR claims? Your jake=scum post is now WIFOM.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: kthxbye

K. This is good too.

[AngryPidgeon]

Zipper....Im town. Jake probably not. Qwints eh.

@Kthxbye: call it a layover from yesterday. That should have been obvious enough since I said I'd vote you/jake/thor before you even posted today.

But your qwints vote is scummy as hell too. Are you honestly keeping score of the things his slot has done and tallying them up? Come on. Come. on. That is an admission of guilt if I ever saw one.

And your connection of me/qwints is hilarious. I called his him town Yesterday based on the hammer, so why shouldn't I assume the questionb was directed to me (at least partly)?

P-edit: @Thor: not questioning it isn't a scumtell. note that kthx is scum and questioned my vote on him.

@Zipper: you do know that daytalk is rare in general, right?

[AngryPidgeon]

The last half of that was joke logic. First part was a seruious assertion. AndI'll go ahead and throw your typical bullshit back at you:

Prove that not replying is a scumtell. Or prove that it is for zipper specifically. Go. Burden of proof, fuck ya!

[AngryPidgeon]

@Zipper: I was telling you. Not making a point against you. In fact, you are pretty town.

I'm down to vote jake, but Kthxbye really really needs death.

Hes posturing and it shows. His qwints vote is terrible and based on a single post and the fact that the slot flaked. Flaking is an awful reason to vote someone as both alignments do it. And he admits that the qwints hammer could come from either perspective, but still counts it against him anyways.

Kthx is scum.

P-edit: lol, Thor. We had a conversation in the past identical to this one. Why are you accusing me of doing something that you know isnt a tell for me?

[AngryPidgeon]

@Rondar: You arent supposed to be posting >.>

You were killed.

[AngryPidgeon]

@D3x: I dont make meta cases. I say scum-*playername* to just mean I dont think scum would do that in general.

Ok, where do you put qwints on the town->scum spectrum?

@Kthxbye: If dave had flipped scum, would your opinion of qwints be different?

[AngryPidgeon]

Im here. Ive resolved to NOT check MS at work anymore so forgive my lurkiness. I know checked in to mod my game a little. Shoot me. Or dont. Then you will be Dick Cheney. Im not caught up...quick skim at lunch now.

quick replies: @Kthx, but you said that qwints is scummy for anti-town behavior (the quick hammer / not posting anything). The Dave flip doesnt change that at all. You accused him of being scummy for anti-town behavior, so a scum flip from Dave would make his behavior less anti-town?

@Jake: straaaaaaawman. I never said you were scummy for your policy. I said you were scummy for circlejerking about how good your policy was without actually being proactive about trying to start another wagon. You never appealed to anyone or encouraged anyone to get on Thor/Kthx. You just kind of said 'Ya Dave is scum, I dont like lynching cliamed PRs though' and coasted around whilst arguing mafia theory about your policy. Its not scummy because of your policy but because you apparently cared more about discussing your policy than doing anything about the lynch.

@Thor: werent you just voting Zipper? Why is he obvtown? Not caught up, sorry if im missing context.

@Mastin: haha, ok I think you are town. Lets be masons! : P
Who are your top 2 scumreads? W/o letting my opinons influence it. (And now to add bias to the question, I'll say Im heavily considering adding to Zipper's Jake wagon again)

@Thor: Once again, sorry if I missed. Read on jake, bullet points as to why?

@Kthx: Ok, I cant get over your qwints suspicion. Hammering in your first post on a TOWN COP is a good way to draw suspicion to your slot. Why would scum-qwints want to draw all that attention to himself as scum like that? It doesnt look like something scum would do for fear of retribution. Why does his move look/feel scummy then?

[AngryPidgeon]

I get the strangest feeling of deja vu when reading his posts.

Thor doesnt believe me when I say hes either obvtown or just kind of....Thor. But I guess I suffer from that too lol. TechnoWC and I were theorizing that if I am not obvtown by D3 in any game, I deserve to be lynched.

his game's way too easy. AP, we're gonna steamroll the mafia, since their largest mistake in the game was not killing me n1.

LOL. I am a litle concerned that I wasnt killed since I think my Kthx/Thor reads are still good. But its totally possible that they expected me to have no cred after the Dave flip. Or that you are scum...

What changed your mind on Jake?

Ugh, I HATE myself. If I so much as navigate to Ms.net, I cant stop thinking about it for the rest of the work day. Ok, actually catching up later.

[AngryPidgeon]

So I just skimmed that horrifying Jake response. Hes prob-scum. lol @ 'you liar'. If Im lying, then vote me. Give me your insurance Jake. You didnt want to say 'you are mistaken' because that would look like you know Im town. So Im lying. FUCK. OK ACTUALLY LEAVING UNTIL LATER.

[AngryPidgeon]

mastin.addToReads("pine");

[AngryPidgeon]

Damn it Thor. Every time hes scum, I realize it immediately and then he says something to make me think he might not be or he just kind of slips off my radar. Either way, I think I prefer Jake/Kthx today. I kind of like Mastin's suspect pool atm, but Id have to extend mine to Jake/Thor/D3x/Kthx/Mastin (no particular order). Minor to moderate town reads on everyone else. Jake/Kthx/Mastin is totally possible.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh god. See, this is why you scare me. Your play looks identical to me every single game. I just have a hard time connecting with your world view of the game and although you draw similar conclusions that I do (like most all of your townreads match mine) I can't penetrate the exterior that is Mastin. Kind of. Not entirely. But you take me longer than most people.

Alternatively, if you wanna help me purge Scumthxbye from the thread, I'm cool with that.

Bullet points on why d3x is scum fast?

P-edit: are you psychic?

[AngryPidgeon]

Lol, Thor I think I base my read on you off how much you are making me laugh. When I read your town games, I always chuckle at your jokes. Just a pro-tip. I mean come on, you addressing the dead QT when getting trolled by idiot-master was hilarious. Annyyyyways,

Jake's interaction with you look a little fake honestly. Hes being abrasive for the sake of being abrasive and I dont see what is causing him to do so. He is with me too. It looks fake because I dont see what events in the thread are possibly riling him up enough to post that way.
Mastin will apply wagon analysis to literally anything.
I think Mastin thinks you look scum because I was pointing out that you look it and Mastin is trying to

subtly

buddy to me.


P-edit: Mastin, how would you compare D3x's interaction with the Dave wagon to yourself and the Robert Montana wagon in mini 1377?

'd3x rolefished'.... ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ. Be ashamed Mastin, lol.

Thor, how wiling would you be to vote Jake? Vote Mastin?

P-pedit: Come on jake, accusing me of being an SK? I know you arent stupid enough to leak scumtells THAT obvious. Except you are leaking them.

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean. Mastin is the only person in the site that can call "asking for crumbs" scummy because its "gauging ML potential". Its an absurd statement and makes me want to vote him, but then I remember its Mastin and Im like hurrrrnnnng. Could just be Mastin being Mastin. But my gut tells me its not right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm not buying you are a Vig cause I'd be the worst vig target ever for N1, especially given a certain post I made

Where the hell did I claim killing powers?

[AngryPidgeon]

@Qwints: Ehhh. That is something that I would honestly want meta on to believe (worlds ending, I know). Because if he has played as scum with no daytalk before, then I'd say your case is valid. But if he has never been scum (as I think was said), then Id have a hard time buying that he'd necessarily assume one over the other. That being said, I will at least reread Zipper. I could be wrong there.

P-edit: Well you WERE a townread at the end of D1. I am saying. If I were scum and you were town. I would have killed you. No one was really that interested in voting you D1. Your stance on Dave looks pro-town on the surface. You are clearly a respectable player. That is my logic. Also, I mainly said it to see how you would respond to me voting you for what was a dubious reason. Its DGB's signature reaction test. But I am serious about this point. If you were town, you would have been an excellent NK regardless of who is scum.

P-edit: AP's Theory of Replacement Relativity: As a game approaches the end, the player list will gradually approach a pool of well-known players due to flakers replacing out and the replacement pool being more or less static.

[AngryPidgeon]

loooooooool. Ok, lets do this. 1v1 with Jake right now. Everyone vote one. Mastin, get over here. You already promised to bus Jake today.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im 100% serious. I dont normally declare 1v1s because its distracting. But Jake is scum. Lynch him. Im not letting him side-step this one.

You continue to state that I slipped about killing powers. I have none. I was speaking in hypotheticals. Note the subjunctive form "were" that I used.

Thor, help me out here.

P-edit: Fine. Im a VT. #yolo.

[AngryPidgeon]

Interesting claim.

[AngryPidgeon]

Similar to a PGO claim really.

[AngryPidgeon]

if I've used one.

Lol, if you are claiming this seriously then you are ABSOLUTELY claiming to have used one tonight. Otherwise your BS about me slipping about having killing powers makes no sense.

P-edit: KthxScum is still totally on my table. Qwints should help me OMGUS lynch him.

P-pedit:@Qwints: I thought someone said it in thread this game because the topic of him sheeping Thor had come up at one point. I could be totally wrong about that actually. I need to stop playing during work, QQ.

PPPedit: Jake, why the hell do you even think Im scum? Because I said it was shocking you are alive? IS that literally the only reason? Because if so that is a load of shit and Im not backing out of the 1v1. Your claim is interesting, and Id really like time to parse it. But your push on me looks an awful lot like posturing from this side of the intertubez.

[AngryPidgeon]

Jake/Qwints: Read on Mastin?

Mmmmm. What does 'unless the alternative is lynching you' supposed to mean?

Jake/Mastin could totally be a team >.>. Gonna say I really want Thor's input on me/Mastin/Jake ATM.

P-edit: @qwints: troll. lol. I never use meta to make cases. I use it to debunk cases. Something like this is actually relevant to the current game. In general, meta sucks. ESPECIALLY playstyle related tells. Qwints, your refusal to comment on the swirl of bullshit going on underneath you is making me nervous. Especially when you go writing me off as town for 'willing to use meta'. I never make cases from meta. Ever. ever. ever. ever.

[AngryPidgeon]

What 180? What leap?

Hmmmm. Qwints could be scum. with Kthxbye? Plausible. Fuck, I have way too many scum reads this game. Realllllly need to cut myself off and reread later.

P-edit: IDK, you really think all 3 of us are town here? That easy? Or you dont fully understand what is going on and dont care too much?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why is me being willing to use meta a town tell. Because frankly its not and that looks like bullshit.

[AngryPidgeon]

@ qwints: I think you are scum for using my opinion on meta to assign a read to me.

@Jake: lol. Changing my opinion is a scumtell. Yet you didnt vote me when I voted you out the gates. You waited for this 'slip' about killing powers. Are you a BP goon or some shit?

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler: More jake shit

He misinterprets what I am saying to mean that I am soft-claiming having shot at him. His knee jerk reaction to that is to accuse me of being scum. Now he is saying that he is a commuter and that I probably shot him and that I am surprised that it missed. (That is the only way Jake's misinterpretation of what I said could possibly make sense to him.) Because if he didn't commute last night, then he would have no reason for thinking I may have slipped about shooting him (because hes still alive lol).

So jake is admitting to using a commute in order to suspect me for 'soft claiming having shot him'.

So jake saying that I am scum for maybe shooting him + later refusing to claim whether or not he commuted last night is hilarious. If he didnt commute, then his reason for suspecting me falls apart completely. But instead of saying that he commuted last night, he refuses to claim whether or not he did? But its super obvious that he must have for his suspicions to hold even an iota of water, so why is he playing coy? It doesnt make sense. Its a slip. For his case on me to make sense HE HAS ALREADY CLAIMED THAT HE COMMUTED LAST NIGHT INHERENTLY. Now he is refusing to claim it for what reason? Am I becoming Magna of Illusion?

Im thinking Kthx/Qwints/Jake could be it. Mastin, PLEASE be town. Thor, you too. Im literally begging the two of you to be town. That would make this shit so much easier to wade through.

lol @ qwints. Use an ongoing that neither of us have flipped in to garner a read on me. No comment when I make a similar extrapolation.

And FTR, I totally buy Kthx/qwints team. I can absolutely see scum bussing out the gates after such a hammer.

Could I get the following players to list their top 3 lynches in order?
Thor
Mastin
D3x
Cyber
MM

[AngryPidgeon]

I wasn't the obvious NK target

last night, for him to imply I was is laughable.

Why not?

P-edit: lol no. Simple logic is simple and logic. You are accusing me of 'slipping' about my shot missing you. THEREFORE you believe I shot you. THEREFORE you are claiming to have commuted. Eternal shame on you if you are town. Eternal shame. But you aren't.

And no. Im saying. If I _were_ scum. I would have shot at you. You were looking pretty town at the end of D1 and no one really wanted to wagon you anyways. Plus you are an intelligent player. Im surprised you are alive hence I am concluding you are scum. Unless maybe there is an SK out there and you were shot at which would be hilarious. We should massclaim! (OMG, AP is suggesting anti-town things). I dont care right now. I can kind of see this coming from commuter-Jake perspective if you can explain to me how you are not inherently claiming that you did commute in order for your case on me to make sense.

[AngryPidgeon]

(Also, your town-meta suggests that you always get shot night 1) /joke

And I encourage everyone to read post 650. If THAT isn't the worlds most forced opinion, then IDK what is.

P-edit: Ok. I figured my opinion on the Dave wagon looked scummier than yours on the surface, all things considered. Anyhow, what is your read on Mastin/kthxbye/qwints?

I need to reread my opening post apparently. IIRC my reason for suspecting you off the bat was what I said - talking about how you'd rather not lynch Dave but not being proactive about any alternative wagons.

P-P-edit: Is this one of those cases where after I flip you are going to say "Oops wrong facts! and backpedal?"

[AngryPidgeon]

AP and thor seem the most obvtown due to their earlier pissing contest....though AP less and less so. d3x seems to be playing his town game so because I know him, I'd put him in obvtown as well. mastin is also getting town-points recently

Yarr! I've totally called the team. So Im going to kick back and let everyone check in with who they are willing to vote today.

Jake, explain to me how you have not inherently claimed to use a shot for your case on me to make any sense at all. Your case on me REQUIRES you to have used a shot, confirm/

deny

lie?

Also explain to me how I lied/claimed-scum. Keep in mind that when I made my opening post today, it had not occurred to me that I would have shot you as scum. That train of thought occurred later.

BTW, if Jake is scum he almost HAS to be a 1xBP or something. It kind of makes sense. And if we have a 1 or 2 shot vig, they should claim there actions immediately.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also Im fucking insulted that you think I would SK slip like that. lol.

Im not THAT dumb. I posture like a boss when I want to.

[AngryPidgeon]

Holy crap what if Jake is a BP immune SK. That would be fucking M Night Shymalan all over this thread and could kind of make sense.

[AngryPidgeon]

It kind of makes sense. Think about it. Serial Killer Jake shoots DoubleJD. The scum team shoots Jake. Jake is BP. Jake suspects he was shot for this reason and gets ready to claim commuter (a fairly unlikely, role all things considered). A commuter claim explains why he isn't killed throughout the game (its like a PGO claim in a sense) because an x-shot commuter can out-WIFOM the scumteam. And if Jake is an SK and suspects he was shot last night (for obvious reasons), then he absolutely would have reason to believe that I slipped about it or am reaction testing him about it to see if he will flail. And he furthermore can garner town-cred from a mafia-flip from me. ESPECIALLY if he accuses me of being an SK for the added cred of appearing to know less than he does.

tl;dr: Jake's an SK. Lynch that shit. Qwints/Kthx are still Mafia. 3rd mafia is ??? Or maybe its just them. Who knows.

Alternatively Jake is a BP goon or something and actually believe I am an SK. Either way lynch that shit.

[AngryPidgeon]

LOL. Jake is absolutely scum. He thinks my vote out the gate was suspect and he is concluding that I/myTeam shot him. There is no reason for that to make me scum. He is either a BP goon or an SK. He has absolutely no reason to be operating under the assumption that there were 2 shots taken last night.

P-edit: whatever. After I flip VT, just know that Jake is SK. Also, fuck you. My theory is so bullet proof that Im proud as fuck about it. And for you to side with Jake is killing my soul. He obviously KNEW or had heavy reason to suspect that 2 shots occurred last night for his suspicions to make sense.

Thor/Mastin, get over here.

[AngryPidgeon]

And anyone directly ignoring the conversation between the SK and me is scummy as shit because they know they shot Jake last night.

QWINTS. KTHXBYE.

[AngryPidgeon]

Looool. A maf claim if I ever saw one. What do you think of jakes case on me?

[AngryPidgeon]

So jake telling the truth. Is a tough pill to swallow. But you aren't going to vote him atm or add him to your suspects. Sounds legit. Itt: your team shot jake. Jake was ready for the incoming maf push on him and mistook my statement for that mafpush and is claiming an unkillable PR to justify his being a BP SK and is voting someone he is SURE slipped about having a 2nd shot.

Yes, his reason for listing me as town was obvscum of him. Also his opinion on me jake walls.

Mastins stance is interesting given the jake revelations.

Edit: on phone need a few to get home

[AngryPidgeon]

qwints turns scum, AP probable scum as well.

Linking me to a scum buddy. @Kthx, why would I vocally defend a scum buddy before Dave even flips and before he is under any pressure?

Inb4 WIFOM! No. Apply Occam's razor. Im VERY unlikely to be buddy's with qwints. (Also, Im town. Also, YOU are buddies with qwints)

guess I should explain my connection for thinking scum-qwints probable scum-AP since I'm asking it of others.

This is an admission of LYING if I ever saw one. You 'guess' you should explain it? Lol. You are preemptively explaining your statement and trying to act apathetic about having made it, but you clearly do feel some guilt here because you are preemptively explaining it.

@qwints: did you read this post at all before posting your daytalk slip suspicions?

in px2 it was the other way around, and my only scum game on this site had daytalk... why would i assume. other wise

go back and iso ap and jake, especially Jake... and then tell me it doesn't. make. sense

@Zipper: what were you talking about here? Your Jake vote?

@d3x: I love you, but your scumreads are all town. Seriously. (Cyber /MM/Kush). Also D3x is obvtown. This is a good revelation. Mastin is probably scum for the push.

Spoiler: What the fuck is this post? Kill it with fire

Are you saying I shouldn't have voted Dave?

I'm saying your motivation for your first post being the hammer on Dave is suspect. There is a difference. I thought Dave was scum. Hence my vote on him. You coming in and hammering without warning is what I have already explained as scummy.

I've been away for ~2 years and when I had played previously, people didn't hammer early without first letting it known that that is what they were planning. Doing otherwise (see your hammer post) is scummy as hell.

And you honestly expect me to believe that qwints just accepts this BULLSHIT push on him and doesn't tell Kthxbye that he was voting Dave and is therefore a hypocrite. (Why not unvote if you didnt want a hammer to happen?)

I will give you 1 post to retract or I will prove you are lying.

You accused me of buddying you in my first post after you posted your first post. Even if you misinterpreted my sentence, I dont see what significant difference it makes in the end. Why bring it up? Also:

Spoiler:

I see you are preemptively getting ready to attack me because YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU WERE SHOT AT LAST NIGHT AND YOU HAVE ALREADY PERCEIVED MY OPENING VOTE AS SOMEONE WHO IS AWARE OF THAT. THE ONLY WAY THAT MAKES SENSE IS IF YOU KNOW THERE ARE 2 SHOTS.

trust me, if I was scum trying to gain town points that isn't the way I would go about it.

More proof that he is an SK (because I can tell he genuinely did not know for sure about Dave). Seriously this is ridiculous. THAT BEING SAID, I think Kthx might be the correct lynch. I dont know who Jake would shoot tonight. Actually, he probably wont shoot anyone because as soon as it becomes obvious there is a 3rd party, hes going to get lynched. So hes probably forced to play it nightless ATM. Which is cool, lets lynch Kthxbye.

I am happy to ignore that case.
Feel free to continue the ad hom support of it.

Toooooown.

mastin, why vote Jake over the person AP's actually voting (kthxbye?)

Why does this matter?

Mastin, can you tell me how AP is town when I have caught him in a boldface lie?

Already addressed this. My point is fine. Either way, why does the timeframe matter at ALL? Why does it matter enough for me to lie about it?

-qwints: Why do you think the scum killed that replacement, when quite frankly I'm the far larger threat?

Ok, Im down to lynch any of the 3 stooges (qwints, mastin, kthxbye). Mastin, why do YOU think rondar was killed over you? Why are you asking qwints specifically?

Still going....

[AngryPidgeon]

Everyone: What was your read on MY slot going into night?
What was the town's overall read on my slot going into night?

What the hell are you getting at? Im going to have to assume you are scum and trying to look town by questioning heavily why you werent NK'd because really. REALLY. Your line of questioning has no endgame.

Cyber/Zipper are still town.

I had clear and strong reads off your slot's posting.
It's odd to think otherwise.

I see you are on to the same thing I am.

Spoiler: This is just subtle distancing from Mastin's opinions.

Everyone: Why do you think Rondar was killed?

Alright, couple other related questions:
-

Everyone: What was your opinion on that slot going into night?
What was the town's overall opinion of that slot?

1. WIFOMy WIFOM with a side of WIFOM.
2. Uninterested person playing it
3. Won't you get the answer to this as people answer your questions?

Re buddying accusations: Eh.

I don't think we have played together, which is why

I find it odd you claim I'm town after 1 post

and why you asked me about a game you never played in.

.Why are those putting me on these scum teams not building the case for me and pushing for a lynch

Ask and receive. Jake has to play nightless now anyways. We can lynch him last.
UNVOTE: Jake
VOTE: Kthxbye

@Mastin - you scum this game?

Thor honey, I thought this question was useless. (Especially since Mastin is scum independent of alignment anyways). BUT I LIKE WHERE THIS IS GOING.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

I would like everyone to note this! Jake thinks this is a slip and that I am claiming Sk/mafia here and that I shot him. Why in the 9 plains of hell would I claim that so OPENLY in the thread. I didn't. Im VT. Jake KNOWS that he was shot because he is a BP SK and he is reaching the conclusion that it was me because of opening post and this. Hes scum. SK specifically.

Originally posted by Mastin: a whole lot of BS about D3x being scum since he realized that Kthx was right about Mastin only saying that D3x was scum with Kthx.

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

ROFL, hi Mr. SK how you doing

NOTICE THAT JAKE ASSUMES I AM AN SK BUT NOT MAFIA. WHY? HE HAS NO REASON TO BELIEVE ONE OVER THE OTHER IF HE REALLY IS TELLING THE TRUTH.

[AngryPidgeon]

if I were shot last night (or someone attempted to kill me) the 2nd quote seems to suggest you know something about it. Right or wrong?

Nope. Knew absolutely nothing. Just a really lucky fail-reaction on your part. I was applying DGB's retarded 'caught for the wrong reasons' reaction test.

[AngryPidgeon]

and on that I will go to bed. If he is lynched before I wake up I will seriously be a happy person.

Hey Thor, remember you saying something similar in 1347? I do. Its posturing and bullshit. But help me lynch Mafia. SK jake has to play nightless or risk getting wagoned to hell and back.

[AngryPidgeon]

you would not worry that you were at risk at all.

I ALWAYS wonder why Im not dead if Im town. I just do. It makes me want to reconsider my reads.

Wait, you don't want to lynch me anymore? the person you are claiming is bullet proof scum?

Correct. You have to be an SK. And given what has happened so far, i 100% expect you to feign BP town PR and just play nightless with your head down. If it becomes obvious an SK is in the game via 2xNKs, you know full well that you are going down.

Mastin is scum. He just is. His questions about why he wasn't NK'd make no sense from a town perspective. And his stance on us is questionable to say the least. Pfff, and this is the 2nd time you have accused me of being scummy for changing my opinion IN LIGHT OF NEW INFO.

[AngryPidgeon]

You like attention. The more attention you have, the more you think people will think you're town

My head. Asplode. Its gone. It asploded. Qwints, I know you're here. Time to bus. Time to bus Kthx. Gogo, hop on while you can. Because attention=townpoints. WRONG.

Seriously qwints, Im sorry but get over here. Its time. Time for you to actually acknowledge your buddy instead of ignoring his blatant hypocrisy towards you and letting him coast.

Why unvote when I thought dave was scum. The case on qwints isn't that he voted for dave, it's that he hammered and ended D1 abruptly. Why am I having to explain this to you when you already have me quoted as saying it?

This question id for qwints. Qwints, you dont have to answer this obviously excellent question about you and Kthx being buddies if you just start bussing immediately.

I presume you also missed the post since you talked about him never having been scum.

True. I did. (vote Kthx. Im really sorry how obvious he is)

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi d3x. Im about to make a tl;dr about Jake, but could I pretty please get a Kthx vote? Guarantee hes scum. And ya I know Dave flipped town, fuck me for thinking he was scum. Kthx id posturing like mad all game though.

[AngryPidgeon]

THE Tl:DR ON WHY JAKE HAS TO BE AN SK

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

ROFL, hi Mr. SK how you doing

I say its odd he is alive because he was a good NK target for scum. (I was only half serious about this point, it was mostly a reaction test. Take that or leave it. 0 fucks given about what people think about my alignment ATM)

In response, he calls me an SK. THINK ABOUT THAT.

Why does he accuse me of being an SK and not Mafia?

Lets assume Jake is a a town commuter and he assumes that I shot him last night and that I slipped about it.

Why does he assume I am an SK?

I could be mafia and the SK shot double-JD. I could also be a Vig. Why does Jake immediately assume I am an SK and not one of the other 2 (especially mafia)? Note that there would be a 2 or 3x more likelihood of me being mafia anyways in this situation anyways!

TL;DR:
1.

Jake assumes I am an SK after I 'slip' on targeting him

. He has no reason to assume that when mafia-AP is MORE likely from his perspective if he really is town. There is no reason why SK couldnt have killed DoubleJD and the mafia team (me) tried to target Jake. But he assumes the reverse FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. In fact, Jake HAS to be an SK and not just mafia here. If Jake is mafia, he has to be a BP goon. He has no reason to believe I am an SK (there was only one kill last night) unless his team shot someone BP who would then be the SK. (And that isnt me).

THEREFORE Jake HAS to be the SK.

2. Jake preemptively defends/OMGUS's from my opening post. Why is he so overly defensive for absolutely no reason? Because he KNOWS that he was shot at. Him jumping to conclusions about my post proves it.

How could he know that unless he knows who is responsible for the DoubleJD kill? He killed DoubleJD.

The mafia tried to kill Jake which brings me to point 3.

3. His claim.

X-shot commuter is a very rare PR.

In fact, it is not even in the list of mafiascum approved

normal

roles: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game
ESPECIALLY given that this is Dunham's first modded game, I doubt he would push normal boundaries. This is occam's razor. I will fucking murder anyone that calls WIFOM on this.
Also it makes perfect sense for an SK in his situation. His claim has just enough to it to be able to handwave away any doubts about him not being NK'd for the rest of the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

4. His push on me. I believe that Jake thinks I am mafia. From his SK perspective, my opening 180 at the start of the day looks odd. (And just read his response to it and tell me that isn't someone who KNOWS they are backed into a corner). He knows mafia targeted him last night (or very strongly suspects it, given the lack of NK other than his) and he sees my vote as a sign that I know he is scum all of a sudden based on the lack of a mafia NK. He then preemptively jumps the gun and accuses me of being scum for 'slipping' about targeting him. Jake firmly believes I am mafia and is trying to 1v1 me for that reason. Why did he call me an SK then? He has no reason to make that assumption as town. He DOES have a reason to call me an SK as the SK though: if I flip mafia, it gives him towncred for pushing me AND it looks like he isn't the SK because he was the first person to suggest there is an SK and that I was it. But the INSTANT he accused me of being an SK he forced himself into playing nightless.

[AngryPidgeon]

don't have time to post tonight but consider this:
I don't think Jake is scum.
Read his scum games. He gives considerably less of a shit.

To people who don't think meta is helpful, you're dumb.

MY POST ABOUT HIM BEING A FUCKING SK IS CONCLUSIVE. JAKE IS AN SK. GAHHHHHHHH. META IS SHIT. AND PEOPLE PLAY DIFFERENT AS SKS THAN MAFIA ANYWAYS.

THE ROLE HE CLAIMED IS A

NON-NORMAL ROLE

. FOR FUCKS SAKE. I PROVIDED LINKED PROOF. THE PROBABILITY OF IT BEING IN THE GAME IS BASICALLY ZERO

UNVOTE: Kthx
VOTE: Mastin

Since Thor already said he would help on this one.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh and now I am unsure about mastin/d3x purely because d3x is avoiding my Kthx wagon and starting a mastin wagon. Vote holds for now though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Actually scratch that. VOTE: Kthxbye
Hes the most likely to flip maf right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Short General Replies:

Why shouldn't we lynch Jake today

Jake's reaction to my posts is from an SK vantage point. PLUS, he HAS to play the game nightless. If it becomes obvious that there is a 3rd party killer and I flip non-SK (I will) then Jake is the obv-SK and dies immediately. Jake HAS to play the game w/o killing anyone for the time being because of that. That is why I don't care about lynching him too much ATM. He is scum and that will super obvious later AND he is not a threat due to gimping himself. He should not be lynched until we see 2 mafia flips. Then Jake should go.

@Zipper: I'm town and Im telling you right fucking now what my flip confirms. Kthx is scum. Jake is an SK. Mastin/qwints probscum. Thats. it.

@Jake: So why did I claim VT over Vig then ESPECIALLY since you had just claimed a role that could confirm me as a being a vig that shot you? Your logic is flailing. And no, I NEVER claimed to have shot you. Your overreaction to my silly speculation was an SK claim and its obvious as shit that you think I am mafia and that you are in fact an SK.

Why Kthxbye is scum

Posturing. He replaces in and says he is totally expecting Thor and I to be voting the same person because we are obvtown? He has no reason to think that we are both obvtown at that point (esp Thor ). And he has NO reason to think that two townied with hugely different personalities would vote the same person anyways. His qwints stance is also posturing. "Qwints made an anti-town hammer and therefore is scum" combined with him saying that a scum-flip from Dave would have made qwints probtown. Does not add up. Its anti-town or its not. AND kthx is a hyporcite for not wanting the hammer but keeping Dave at L - 1 anyways.

Avoiding Me/Jake walls. He refuses to take an active stance on Me/Jake at the time we are having a firefight in real time. Why? Because he is afraid of letting on that he knows Jake is an SK. Notice that he later accused me of being scum for 'knowing more than I should'. This is because he is carefully avoiding letting on that he knows more than he should about Jake. Which is why he thought to accuse me of that in the first place. Plus it can but him town cookies when I flip town and he can be all like "Woah, I had no idea. See

I

am the one that is lacking of inside information because I was wrong about AP! Clearly Im town!" Not.

Zipper, Kthx changed his opinion on me, you should vote him. Since that is a scumtell and all.

About Mastin

My gut tells me Mastin is scum. His playstyle is indistinguishable as town/scum and I've read his games / played with him before. I know he is capable of this hyper-buddying as either alignment. Still, Id rather lynch Kthx today and tell everyone to bear in mind that Mastin could still be scum.

You could maybe be right about Zipper? I need to reread that. Zipper could just be one of those players that is so bad it makes me think they are scum. And I find it a little unlikely that he/Kthx team would lead the charge on me together.

My best Town reads: Kush, Cyber, Maverick

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin, what happened to your d3x scumread? Why is MM scum?

Jake, why would I claim VT if I you think I was setting up to crumb vig and you gave me an out to do so? Why would I shoot someone I had a townread on if I were planning on claiming vig?

Officially, what do you think I will flip? And tell me again why there is any reason to think I was SK over mafia?

[AngryPidgeon]

Jesus qwints, are you reading my posts? I've said like 4million times that Jake is an SK that thinks I am mafia. He is hoping a maf flip from me will make it obvious he isn't mafia and he is hoping that calling me an SK preemptively will make him look like someone that doesn't know the game setup and therefore isnt an SK. Im not mafia though. My statement about killing him was a the worlds luckiest reaction test. Its like I threw a dart blindfolded and hit the bullseye 10 meters away.

@Jake: So you think Im an SK. You have no good reason for any of your assertions. Got it.

P-edit: Mastin is evolving. Mastin has evolved into RapidCanyon! Same amount of wall posts! More self-meta! Woooo. Ok. (But seriously Ill consider all that after Ktxh dies)

Um. I had something else to say. Oh. What do you mean that Maverick's play got weaker? I know he is lurking, but that isn't alignment indicative. Compare his play to Tintin mafia since I know you do meta.

P-Pedit: Mastin is right that I am obvtown. But too quote GreyICE: "Obvotwn are easier to find after they've flipped". So Im wary.

[AngryPidgeon]

it's

more than just lurking

. The content in his posts got weaker. It

contained less and less stuff

.

Its not that hes lurking! Its that hes posting less stuff! Oooooooooook. Mastin is becoming a viable alternative to Kthx again.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yup Dunhamganger 2012. Change we can believe in or something.

You outed yourself because you believe I am mafia and that the mafia targeted you last night and hence they know who you are. Note that Kthxbye accusing me of knowing more than I should is just a reflection of HIM knowing more than he should.

Zero respect for you trying to modkill yourself. Zero. Do not care about anything you've said about that.

The point isn't that you think I am scum. the point is that you SPECIFICALLY called me an SK and not scum/mafia when there is ZERO reason for you to suspect I am an SK over just mafia. (Im town, Im giving you a huge bone by giving your claim benefit of the doubt, but your opinions dont add up to your claim). Oh hey look, that statement is my problem with you. Assuming Im an SK is not something a rational townie would do. Neither is threatening to get modkilled.

[AngryPidgeon]

And on the off chance you are just being incredibly dumb, vote Kthxbye. He'll flip scum and prove Im not maf or w/e.

[AngryPidgeon]

people actually considered it.

Lol. This is fiction. And I don't care about 1v1s. You are an SK. And I caught you in a hilarious way.

Kthx calling himself a mislynch is just more reason to mislynch him asap.

Than lynch me please

This is it. This is where Jake's ship sinks. If you get yourself modkilled, it is functionally the same as you getting lynched. Yet you have now stopped considering getting yourself modkilled because it ends the day. But you are asking to belynched (despite it ending the Day).

But I wont hear anymore crap about this. You should have been force replace. Dunham is benevolent in that respect.

Re people I would lynch: I can't think of any other common reads we are willing to lynch Mastin. TBH, qwints is a really good lynch. His apathy towards Kthx's out-the-gates push on him is odd. And he is calling me town for a very explicit (and terrible) reason because he knows Im obvtown, he just doesnt want to say it that way.

P-edit: Come on qwints. This aint you. Its just not. If you were town then you would see how obvious it is that I am town. Even if you had to just hand-wave and say Im playing like futurama or w/e. Your initial reason for calling me town was god-awful considering all the other things happening at the time. And you are continuing to entertain that I might be any alignment and frankly you KNOW that is bullshit.

P-pedit: Thor, why is Kthx town? Would you vote qwints?

[AngryPidgeon]

AP believes Jake knew he was targeted.

It not like Ive been saying that he is a BP SK and that his kill is the only one that processed last night HENCE HE KNOWS HE WAS TARGETED.

P-edit: I could ask the same.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because your Xshot commuter is a town role by definition. A BP claim could make people think you are any alignment.

And because you didn't stop to consider the likelihood of it being in a normal game until I linked the wiki page.

[AngryPidgeon]

And if you claim BP then the question of Full-BP or x-shot comes up. And if you are full BP, that is suspicious. And Ive never heard of a flavor of town BP that came in 2+shot, so you would have to either claim full BP or out of BP shots if you claimed BP

P-edit: qwints is scum. His last wall about me is reason enough to lynch him by itself.

[AngryPidgeon]

Qwints,what is your opinion on Mastin insisting I am town in about 58.2% of his posts. (*Not accurate measurement)

[AngryPidgeon]

Well Zipper, Kthx, and I would support a qwints lynch. Im hoping Thor would, although I dont recall him saying anything about qwints's alignment.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not saying a commuter is impossible. Thanks for proving you have reading comprehension. BUT its very unlikely for Dunham to put it in the game given its his first.

And you wouldn't claim BP for two reasons. 1. Its not alignment affiliated. Your fake claim needed to look town on the outset. A BP claim could come from town, maf, or SK. An X-shot commuter is town by def'n.
2. You claimed it because the matter of shots is very important. a 2+ shot BP is unlikely in a game this size. A FULL BP is going to sound suspicious. A 1shot BP claim means you are claiming to be out of shots so the mafia can kill you at anytime they want.

P-edit: How do you know Mastin read Thirsty souls mafia?

[AngryPidgeon]

How do you know Mastin read Thirsty souls mafia?

'Cause I've said so?

Not all of it, mind you, but I skimmed it; it was an interesting game to watch.

(I watch almost every single Mini Normal, 'specially ones which have at least one night finished, since I find 'em fun to read.)

no, no, no. When did you say so. Qwints is claiming that you calling me obvtown makes sense because you read thirsty souls (where I was scum). Why does qwints believe you read that? Where did you say it?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh god, qwints just scum-slipped so hard its unreal. And it incriminates both of you.

P-edit: Um. Ok. You think qwints (who is skimming so hard hes not even really understanding my walls against Jake or noticing things like Zipper's past scum info before making a relevant case against him) read that, remembered that, and interpreted it to mean that you read thirsty souls.

Nope.

PP-edit: really?

[AngryPidgeon]

Quick Mod skim indicates you are right. I don care though. Statistically speaking, your claim is improbable. And your claim itself is not why you are scum. The fact that you are arguing your claim is shady as fuck. My case on you starts at assuming your claim is truthful but the logic of your posts contradicts that. The fact that its an unlikely claim is just icing on all the crap logic you have been spewing.

And lol @you asking to be lynched despite thinking that getting modkilled ending the day makes that not worth it all of a sudden. Cog dissssss.

P-edit: You don't know that. How do you know I didnt complete any in Central Park or something? Or maybe Mastin ALSO uses ongoings to make meta cases.

P-P-edit: no hes scum independent of you.

[AngryPidgeon]

1. He didn't give a single shit about Kthx calling him scum for the hammer. In fact, he didn't bother pointing out that Kthx was on the wagon and was therefore being hypocritical. Qwints also didn't mind being linked to me by Kthx. (Not that they necessarily have to be scum together, but that looks very likely).

2. When asked about you having a mega-townread on me. He says its probably understandable because you read thirsty souls. There are a few things wrong with that. First, he has no idea whether or not you read that game. Second, Even if you had, a SINGLE game of scum meta is not a valid rason for you to be so adamant about clearing me. Third, qwints was in ThirstySouls with me and he doesnt seem to think that Im obvtown for that in this game. So why is he ok with you saying I am?

3. That horrible IIoA waffle about my motivations. Doesnt draw any serious conclusions, but is rather just trying to show that he can put himself in my mind in hypothetical situations. Note that there is no overall point or summary to his post. Its because town posts shit with the intention of making a point (good or bad). Scum qwints is just trying to show he can think like a townie.

4. Accusing Zipper of scum-slipping for daytalk w/o making any effort to back that up with possible meta (since that would be an actually good time to look at his past experiences and see if they check out with his assumption that scum have daytalk).

[AngryPidgeon]

Jake, if my 'more later' wsa a hint at a vig claim, and you gave me an out for the claim, why the HELL did I snap-claim VT?

[AngryPidgeon]

Jake, if my 'more later' wsa a hint at a vig claim, and you gave me an out for the claim, why the HELL did I snap-claim VT?

Why are you known as someone who lies as town and scum?

You aren't a smart player

The only person who said that is Thor. And I never did, that is Thor's opinion. Since when did you give a shit about Thor's opinions?

[AngryPidgeon]

But nice dodge anyways.

[AngryPidgeon]

If I really felt that shooting my top townreas would be suspicious, why did I 'crumb' having shot you in the first place?

P-edit: that. Jake is smoking two sides of the same cigar.

[AngryPidgeon]

I miss Thor.

I thought you were scum because of your refusal to try and counterwagon Dave despite saying that he shouldn't be lynched.

Anytalk about you being alive came later.

P-edit: lol. Ok. You are saying that I talked about shooting you so that I could fake claim Vig as an SK. Then you said that I claimed VT because it would look sus if I shot you. Its a logical contradiction in your theory. Either you are being dumb, or you are scum caught contradicting yourself about why I am scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Qwints is still scum. Hes making wayyyyyyy too many assumptions about why its ok for Mastin to list me as obvtown.

He never told me why Mastin can think Im town for ThirstySouls to such extremities when he himself doesn't (and he was in that game, so he should have a better opinion about my meta from it than Mastin anyways).

And Mastin kicking up dirt around qwints here is scummy as hell.

[AngryPidgeon]

Errrr. by kicking up dirt I mean he is hand-waving away all of qwints assumptions and how awkward they are.

Qwints: Its ok for Mastin to think you are so town because he read thirst souls.

Me: Ok Mastin what do you think about that

Mastin: Well OF COURSE I read thirsty souls.

Does anybody not see the disconnect there? Its super obvious.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Jake: are you defending yourself from my case? Not all cases are good. But that was my reasoning. You are arguing against it as if you believe I am making a legit case on you which contradicts with your belief that I was bullshitting entirely when I said it.

[AngryPidgeon]

I love how I just kind of said something and you claimed SK. This will be lolz after all is said and done. Would you be willing to vote Mastin/qwints?

[AngryPidgeon]

In case you misunderstood my post 855.

you are saying that my opening post was pure bullshit and that I had role-related info for it.

I restated my case.

You gave reasoning for why my case was bad. But you are taking my case seriously by arguing against it. If I was/am really bullshitting about those reasons for voting you, why are you trying to convince ME that my case was bad. I know its BS, remember?

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm saying in 6 minutes I dont beleive you jumped to that bs conclusion.

Im not saying I did. I thought you were scum because of the Dave flip / your interactions with it. And you can call those reasons wrong, but that doesnt mean anything right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

lol. I see you've run out of arguments. So you are going for the hail mary call AP scum and maybe people will right the whole wall-fest off as bullshit (Mastin) or side with you (because they are bad).

[AngryPidgeon]

write*

[AngryPidgeon]

IDK how anybody can have a townread on Jake. Actually I do. Hes trying really hard to look like he believes Im scum. And on the surface its convincing.

[AngryPidgeon]

Jake, you ignored completely my other excellent point. Why did you ask for people to lynch you (to prove your townieness etc) whilst no longer wanting to get mod-killed (even though its effectively the same impact gamewise)

[AngryPidgeon]

Lol. That bullshit if I ever read it. You were perfectly willing to get modkilled before Dunham changed his policy. Yo acted like the difference of it ending the day made you suddenly not want to.

You even asked me why you were planning on getting modkilled. Apparently you never were. Looool. Backpedal harder.

[AngryPidgeon]

No it isnt, because you later suggested that you be lynched so that it would condemn me. So clearly you dont care that much. and now you are saying that you would never do that because you could get site-banned. So did you ever consider it before? Apparently you werent worried about the site ban back then.

[AngryPidgeon]

This is actually ridiculous. Jake is so obviously scum that I cannot believe Im actually having to convince people of it rather than convince people to vote mafia over the claimed SK

[AngryPidgeon]

Ive only answered that like 4million and one times. Im not your bitch. Oh shit, this is like exactly what you said to Thor that one time.

[AngryPidgeon]

Look at all that self-WIFOM. And thats retarded and you know it. If I am an SK, then everyone knows it HAS to be one of us if for nothing else that we are boldly accusing each other of being an SK. If I were an SK I would absolutely play nightless ATM. And you would/are for the same reasons I would. Because at the point it becomes apparent there is a 3rd party, everyone is going to assume its one of us. You know that. I know that. Stop playing dumb.