Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[Taly]

Hai mykonian, tool, Aeronaut, and RC!!!

This is my first game in like a year I think. (Probably more like 6 months lol)

ANYWAY

VOTE: Aquanim

Three votes on page 1 is SCUMMY even if two of them were the same person in a pointless vote/unvote.

I'm surprised no one else has voted for him tbh. Catch up folks.

I think he is gauging for reactions, but I can see people may think this.

Anyway, I associate the word 'eek'-tor to scream, and scream to fear, and fear to mafia because mafia wants you to be afraid because they can kill you. - Conspiracy theory.

VOTE: eektor

ANYWAYS, hi everyone. Looking forward to this game, and hi odd. Seems like we are both in two games together.

[Taly]

Hey Taly. Nice to see you again. Let's see if I can keep our two games together straight.

I don't think that there's anything to be made of Aquanim's three votes.

Hopefully. XD

But about Aquanim, I kind of agree with this, at least until Elyse goes into depth about why Aquanims behavior was scummy. Which was why my previous vote for Eektor was over RVS. (Since I still thought seriousness for discussion was still being founded.)

VOTE: Taly

This isn't a RVS vote at all either.

Would you like to explain your vote? Since it isn't RVS?

[Taly]

Hai mykonian, tool, Aeronaut, and RC!!!

This is my first game in like a year I think. (Probably more like 6 months lol)

ANYWAY

VOTE: Aquanim

Three votes on page 1 is SCUMMY even if two of them were the same person in a pointless vote/unvote.

I'm surprised no one else has voted for him tbh. Catch up folks.

I think he is gauging for reactions, but I can see people may think this.

Anyway, I associate the word 'eek'-tor to scream, and scream to fear, and fear to mafia because mafia wants you to be afraid because they can kill you. - Conspiracy theory.

VOTE: eektor

ANYWAYS, hi everyone. Looking forward to this game, and hi odd. Seems like we are both in two games together.

Um... I was the third vote on eektor? I was just adding onto a pressure bandwagoning to get more elaborate responses from people.

Since eektor hasn't really done anything worthy of concern, and some people here have made their presence

blatant.

UNVOTE: eektor

I think he is gauging for reactions, but I can see people may think this.

Anyway, I associate the word 'eek'-tor to scream, and scream to fear, and fear to mafia because mafia wants you to be afraid because they can kill you. - Conspiracy theory.

VOTE: eektor

ANYWAYS, hi everyone. Looking forward to this game, and hi odd. Seems like we are both in two games together.

specifically the first line is both overexplaining and noncommittal, both things I consider scummy.

Because being afraid of death in RVS is scummy, and that was my first post... I already stated I detected no seriousness on the first page and so my pressure vote was meant to be taken lightly.... I think there are bigger cases than us right now, hon.

Plus, it makes me wonder if you're a bit nervous, other people are questioning if others are being scummy, and here you vote for me out of RVS on something I said that WAS RVS? Are you diverting attention away from someone, or yourself? More importantly: Do you think an RVS vote is worth a possible lynch? Your reasoning seems avoidant, and unnecessary, and that isn't nice for the towns progression. (Just my conclusion.)

And as far as other people voting for metal, mykyo, and aquanim. I don't know what my response is to that --- I'm a high school sophomore by the way, so I'm limited to 1, maybe 2 posts on a thread per morning. I'll give you guys more of my thoughts later today.

[Taly]

...
Um... I was the third vote on eektor? I was just adding onto a pressure bandwagoning to get more elaborate responses from people.

Since eektor hasn't really done anything worthy of concern, and some people here have made their presence

blatant.

UNVOTE: eektor
...

Who are you referring to as "blatant"... for that matter, what do you mean by the word?

(Don't worry about hurting my feelings, if your answer swings in that direction.)

If you've decided eektor is no longer worthy of your vote, I'd like to know who you think is.

This is also to Elyse, and anyone else who wants to know the justification of my actions.

First, who I was referring to as "blatant"? This was a response to Radiant who explained that she voted against me that isn't an RVS vote, and then said it was because my vote(which was intentionally RVS speak) looked scummy, which didn't seem to hold an argument seeing that we voted on completely different contexts. --- I replied to Radiant in post 65, at this time, people were talking about you, eektor, and metal about being seen as scum, Aquanim.

Radiants unjustified vote against me when people were already developing serious discussion seemed like a derailment from the town progress in finding out who may be who. I said you and a few others were blatant because you were the people who took major part in that discussion.

What's the point of unvoting? Same to you Taly and metalcyanide.

In post 65 as well, I said my vote for eektor was to pressure bandwagon, (somehow, the mod didn't put my vote as the third on the vote count, I think I might have voted wrong) --- at the time, I didn't see eektor to appear either scummy or townie, and since Radiant wanted to jump at me for the RVS reaction vote, I retracted mine seeing as how it would have only gotten away in the current discussion on who is who. Plus, eektors reactions so far hasn't told us a lot, and my pressure bandwagon RVS vote was to see if

other people also had interesting reactions.

So that's why I began to question and see Radiants justification for her vote, and in my previous question in post 65, I'm asking her if she was trying to avoid something. Like making it seem to divert attention off of someone by throwing a weaker argument at an unserious post at another person. This is why my vote was retracted, and until I can get a better view within all this jungle of requotes and replies, I haven't seen much to indicate anyone is much town or scum. (I think some are leaning in both directions individually, but I think quite a few people so far are neutral.)

[Taly]

And a quick note, since I've given little opinion and insight, I'm liking Elyse's assessment of the situation so far. She's taking most initiative in seeing who is scum or town and I think that is truly town motivated and helpful. I don't know much about eektor or metal, and I think Aquanim is leaning to town, he seems to be wanting reactions and questioning people to get more detail.

Still going to analyze in depth on who is who and meaning what, I think Insidious is also town because he seems to want to assess and test to figure out peoples reactions so he can understand what all is going on more. So that's a good vibe.

And I've said I don't know much about eektor, but he's given little responses, and I wonder if that could indicate lurking, and avoiding others. But I'm unsure, I just don't like it that much.

I've stated in post 113, I'm still awaiting answers from Radiant.

[Taly]

I don't know if scumMetal would

necessarily

know or not know that there was a list of roles, but it is just one example of many in his ISO of him making posts that don't look calculated at all, which given his amount of experience I would kind of expect that they would be. Rather he's playing things very off-the-cuff and doesn't really appear to be trying to make himself look good, so he looks towny to me.

This post from Taly, however, does come across as a little worried about how he looks and a tad calculated. Worth pushing right now IMO.

VOTE: Taly

@Metal, I don't understand your scumread on Lemons.

@Myko, do you see anybody worth pushing yet?

Do you have any questions you would want to ask me?

[Taly]

I don't know if scumMetal would

necessarily

know or not know that there was a list of roles, but it is just one example of many in his ISO of him making posts that don't look calculated at all, which given his amount of experience I would kind of expect that they would be. Rather he's playing things very off-the-cuff and doesn't really appear to be trying to make himself look good, so he looks towny to me.

This post from Taly, however, does come across as a little worried about how he looks and a tad calculated. Worth pushing right now IMO.

VOTE: Taly

@Metal, I don't understand your scumread on Lemons.

@Myko, do you see anybody worth pushing yet?

Do you have any questions you would want to ask me?

I do, why did you feel the need to defend yourself so vigorously and repetitively? Those 2 paragraphs could have just as effectively been condensed into a few sentences, and they look panicked as hell. I'm not necessarily insinuating that you're scum but unless you're a generally defensive player I want to know why you've been so apprehensive.

I wouldn't exactly think of myself as being a very apprehensive or defensive player, this is 1 of 3 of my first mafia games I am playing on this forum(and all are still at D1), and I have not had a lot of in-game experience outside of this. I'm trying to find a way to be more concise and shorter in my paragraphs. Aside from that, I'm just thinking it is easier for others to get on the same page as me if I explain my position, it gives people more upfront information about me instead of them needing to poke information from me. I am receptive to peoples questions because I want a better idea of who is most likely to be town or scum as much as they do. I don't really get why me justifying my position on my actions seem panicky, I'm just doing what I think is best to put things in perspective.

[Taly]

@Taly

: I believe that stating how many games you are in and that they are all in day 1 is acceptable (I mean, they are verifiable facts after all) but don't say anything more about ongoing games. (You probably know this already but I think it's best to be explicit.)

In the light of his #121 what is your read on toolenduso?

@InsidiousLemons

: I'm presently voting you; would you like to make an argument as to where my vote would be better placed?

- This is also a response to Insidious' post previous to this ones.

--- I'm sorry if I overlooked a minor rule in speaking about ongoing games, (even if it didn't really give insight beyond me verifying how much I know), I just said that to tell you guys that trying to find a meta or specific strategy about me right now isn't something to get very far, since that's something I'm doing myself, I also question the theory of meta, and I don't know a lot about it specifically.

I think me coming across as defensive is more like a personality thing, I stand by what I've said so far, and even though the wording can be worked on, I've said all I believe I should say about this right now.

[Taly]

@Taly

: I believe that stating how many games you are in and that they are all in day 1 is acceptable (I mean, they are verifiable facts after all) but don't say anything more about ongoing games. (You probably know this already but I think it's best to be explicit.)

In the light of his #121 what is your read on toolenduso?

@InsidiousLemons

: I'm presently voting you; would you like to make an argument as to where my vote would be better placed?

Grr, I keep misreading some things going on

My thoughts on

toolenduso

? He seems to have good reason to push me since he doesn't know a lot about me, I don't think I've appeared very panicky as I've said, and I don't get the 'tad bit calculated' thought from him. To me it sounds like he is scum hunting based off the people who seem to show awareness and thought process in their words, which can be a townie and scum thing depending on whether it is used to help town or to manipulate them. It's valid, but it doesn't seem to hold up as a strong scummy read, at least to only try and get information. So I'd say his vote is gauging for reactions, which can be either alignment, it is too early to tell someones intentions just off of that.

[Taly]

I kind of agree with odd in 153 that this is a very fast paced game(which I don't think is bad), but I would say he was overreacting in a sense which could be scum or town reaction, I think the current wagon is very valid, but I wouldn't just base someone as scum off of them losing their head for a moment, unless it was consistent and less explained.

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions to try and see a better side of me because they were obviously unsure since they didn't know that much. I want people to ask questions because it seems town-motivated to for the questioning, and questioned to realize the side of the other, and both to understand information to know what to do to press forward. Also, I agree with Aquanim in post 144 - you haven't given any reasons for any of your reads as far as I've seen and even when answered in post 149 you didn't even elaborate on top of that. Other than this, I haven't seen many posts from you indicating a lot of insight, or at the very least, town-motivated thoughts.

VOTE: mykonian

Additionally, I'll listen to Elyse if she is going to digress on why she still wants to vote for eektor. I'd like to hear it

@Elyse ^^ Question above

[Taly]

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions to try and see a better side of me because they were obviously unsure since they didn't know that much. I want people to ask questions because it seems town-motivated to for the questioning, and questioned to realize the side of the other, and both to understand information to know what to do to press forward. Also, I agree with Aquanim in post 144 - you haven't given any reasons for any of your reads as far as I've seen and even when answered in post 149 you didn't even elaborate on top of that. Other than this, I haven't seen many posts from you indicating a lot of insight, or at the very least, town-motivated thoughts.

VOTE: mykonian

hmm. Hows that for omgus.

I'm just stating what I think about your moves so far, same as everyone else. Are you going to dismiss my question, then? I'm asking you to give me and others insights on your reads.

And the

Hows that for omgus

seems like you're indirectly trying to make it seem like I sound like I'm overreacting.

[Taly]

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions

Actually, I can easily explain what's bothering me with this post, and in a similar way, post 124.

Asking people to ask you questions, esspecially at this early point of the game is a defense mechanism. Explaining what you did and why you did things tends to put people at ease. Since scum hasn't really bothered to make any moves, they haven't been in tight spots yet (hey, we just finished the RVS), this is "easy". Which is wrong with this post and post 124.

The second thing that is very wrong with this post in particular is the emphasis on "openly". This is a given when you are town. The emphasis doesn't make half as much sense when you are town (you are open anyway), but makes more sense from a scum mindset "I can still be honest about my gameplay so far, there's nothing to find".


So the way I see it, Taly is a prime candidate for scum.

I think you got me backwards, I think the more people understand about what you're trying to achieve gives them more insight instead of just waiting for people to slip up, and then go on about votes with little reasoning behind it.

I'm honest about how things are going because I'm trying to get on page with others in terms of what people are thinking, and how something would affect the town. I can see where you're coming from, but I think the idea of 'I can still be honest so theres nothing to find' to be an instantly scum-motivated mindset just makes me think you're rendering the ability for people to freely communicate their analysis and opinion because you think their putting up a front, instead of actually trying to get something done.

Furthermore, I never said I was being honest because "there would be nothing to find," I'm being a upfront with people on this so they can see my thought process, and it would be easier to collaborate and get better and less contrived input.

I appreciate your explanation, but it seems to me this type of explanation seems threatening to you, do you think people who are trying to make a bold effort in finding people are the ones who are the most scummy in themselves? I think this can be seen as both scum and town depending on what you see, but I don't think that is a useful reason to pin at someone, when they've made it clear of what their intentions are.

[Taly]

Taly, I explained why I'm voting eektor in post 168.

I like mykonian's point about "openly". I find saying the word "honestly" is very similar.

Oh, thank you for pointing that out. Now I see why eektor may still seem to be on the scum radar, and I kind of agree, his posts haven't been so helpful and vague so far.

[Taly]

Taly, when would you, as town, not be open and honest about your ideas and reasons?

That's it, right there. I have and

am

being open and honest about my opinions and ideas. I just thought mykonian was a good candidate to push to see if he wasn't town because he hasn't given valid reasons for his read, and his wording when asked a question seemed avoidant and not really giving much insight. He now answered my question which I appreciate that, I'm just verifying to him, and you, that I'm not saying what I'm saying to hide myself, it is the opposite of that.

If I were hiding my ideas and reasons then I wouldn't have even brought this up.

[Taly]

You lost me.

I'm not saying you haven't been open and honest. But is there ever a situation where you would not be open and honest as town?

No, and there shouldn't be. That deconstructs the towns main goal = identifying and eliminating scum. That's why I was unsure about mykonian because he didn't give much reasoning(at the time I made a point and pushed about it) about his reads, and his responses seemed iffy to me. Now that I know more, I don't see much of a reason to suspect scum unless he gives me reason otherwise.

UNVOTE: mykonian

[Taly]

If there is no reason to not be honest and open, then why are you insisting you are? Do you see what mykonian is saying?

What knowledge led to your unvote?

>I voted for mykonian partially to get a reaction leading to him explaining his reads.
>I justified myself that I was being honest because that was in response to Mykonians analysis, I wanted to clear up positions with him.
>I now see what Mykonian was saying, so I unvoted.

[Taly]

If there is no reason to not be honest and open, then why are you insisting you are? Do you see what mykonian is saying?

What knowledge led to your unvote?

>I voted for mykonian partially to get a reaction leading to him explaining his reads.
>I justified myself that I was being honest because that was in response to Mykonians analysis, I wanted to clear up positions with him.
>I now see what Mykonian was saying, so I unvoted.

You still didn't answer my question from before. What is the point of insisting your honesty and openness if it is a given for town players?

And if what mykonian said made you want to unvote him, why did it take pressure from me to do so? You posted three times in between his post expounding on his reads and your eventual unvote of him.

Mykonian suspected me to be a scum read, I wanted to hear his read on me(he seemed to think that my honesty and openness was just to hide other things instead of actually trying to contribute to town), I voted for him to see if I can get a reaction(and I already linked posts providing reasoning for my vote) so I explained to him my behavior.

Me re-iterating that I'm honest and open in defense, trying to justify that my actions were town motivation - is why I insisted on my openness to the subjects so far.

The only person who said you pressured me into unvoting for him was RC, not me, and I didn't even give reasons why I unvoted that involved you, nor do I have any now, and at the time - you were the one questioning me in return, not him.

My original want was to hear his read, so after I justified myself

("insisting the idea I am being open and honest, a townie trait"),

I unvoted, because I saw little to no reason continuing the topic. Mykonian didn't put pressure on me either, I just wanted a piece of info. from him that I felt was being withheld that'd be better to know. I also did it to try and clear up anything that didn't sit right with me on his reads on me.

I didn't mean to create any conflict that looked a bit off, I was just trying to get some answers that I didn't think would have been given if I just asked plain questions. (Because when I asked, and in my review on my I originally thought mykonian seemed off was based on the fact that he had dismissed answering questions.)

Does this answer your question? If it doesn't, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, I'm sorry.

[Taly]

Just did ISO reads. Myko looks town because of this post:

I think I'm voting someone town.

OddMusic looks pretty bad IMO. #156 was an overreaction out of nowhere and some of the reactions to the wagon against him kind of look like scum bussing/distancing when they're caught off guard by momentum building against a partner.

RC also looks pretty bad, mostly for the way he handled the OddMusic/Aquanim thing. He pushes OM with conviction, then drops it to advocate for a policy lynch on Aquanim (which is itself a weird thing to do this early on D1), then finds a reason to scumread Aquanim later on.

Taly looks just as bad upon re-reading his slot. Myko makes a good point about the wording of #176, and I also don't like this post:

But about Aquanim, I kind of agree with this, at least until Elyse goes into depth about why Aquanims behavior was scummy. Which was why my previous vote for Eektor was over RVS. (Since I still thought seriousness for discussion was still being founded.)

It looks like a half-stance he can use to change his mind later.

That was post 31, on page 2... There really wasn't any information going on at the time, and that was to prompt Elyse at the time to speak about why she thought Aquanims behavior seemed scummy for voting several times in the RVS phase, which (at the time) we were not even subjectively out of....

You do make a point about the half-stance, but the basis and context you're deriving it from doesn't add up with any argument you would want to put up.

[Taly]

Ok whatever. I'm having a hard time understanding your posts and this isn't really getting anywhere.

I still don't get why you waited three posts to unvote mykonian rather than just do it right away. It seemed like my pressure on you caused you to do it, and lying about it is scum motivated.

I don't understand why you're having a hard time understanding my posts, I already stated you didn't pressure me to do anything, I've stated in several different ways my intentions for why I approached mykonian the way I did, and why I voted and unvoted, and I don't get why you are saying that I'm lying about you pressuring me? What is hard to understand?

Oh well, I've been defending myself constantly for the past 4 pages, I'm going to relax a bit and just wait a little...

[Taly]

I think it's because you use way too many commas and run-on sentences.
This:

Me re-iterating that I'm honest and open in defense, trying to justify that my actions were town motivation - is why I insisted on my openness to the subjects so far.

is unreadable to me.

And you are saying that mykonian's explanation was the reason you unvoted him.

What I am saying is that you are lying because you didn't unvote him immediately after that post. You posted three times in between, and only unvoted after I pressured you. I think you got nervous when I pressured you, backed off your push on myko, and retroactively justified it by saying his explanation was sufficient.

Well I did back off a bit from pushing myko, though that was where I had been trying to get him to see my side on this.

OK, your interference did influence my unvoting at the specific time but that was when I was already thinking about unvoting because of what I've learned of myko at that point.

Is that what you wanted to know?.... I'm feeling pretty crappy at the moment.

[Taly]

I'm not trying to make you feel bad but yes you told me what I needed to know...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Taly

Sigh, I guess I just created my own problem out of fearing that an action would create a problem.

I'm going to take ILs response and lift the weight of this in-game mistake off my shoulders until I find a better time to reply. (Things IRL, and other games right now have begun to frustrate me as well, my thinking is not straight.)

[Taly]

School is closed due to weather, I have actually slept for a night the past few days, and I’m in a better mentality for putting my thoughts across.

RadiantCowbells

– I think this is her overall behavior and meta, but her abrasiveness and confidence in her arguments is off-putting to me. Especially with her arguments towards Aquanim and others she’s jumped on, it doesn’t have a lot of substance. I’m impressed she seems to know quite a bit about “cognitive dissonance,” pressure, and other things she said she has applied in this game. She can be a rough townie, or a competent scum. So far, I haven’t seen much I can trust and my gut tells me she can manipulate others. Even though her scumhunting may be town-motivated, I just haven’t seen something I liked yet.

Reading: Slight Lean Scum

Question:

Can you elaborate on your case on Aquanim?

And supposedly the other 3 people you've seem to think were good lynches this early in D1?

Toolenduso

– I do believe Tool has made some good points in assessing how I’ve come across to others, and his idea of putting up a scum case towards me seems a little incoherent. I wouldn’t say he has put up a strong case with me, but from what I’ve seen of Tool in his interactions to others, he seems to be a stronger player in how he words himself. I haven’t seen enough to tell alignment, but my reading on him so far would be:

Neutral

Question:

Tool, what are your opinions on the most prominent posters so far?

oddmusic

– The only thing I’ve defended with odd over was the possibility that the wagon against him wasn’t credible. He already justified he had a bad day, and only one post of frustration can come from either a town or scum. That said, it really rubbed me the wrong way when he talked about the possibility of Aquanim and I being a scum team, especially when we were the ones trying to keep a detracting wagon from forming.

Where did that come from?

I have done very little to buddy with Aquanim other than stating my opinion that I think his patience and approach to this game is a lot easier and more efficient to deal with than most other peoples’ reactions so far. (I’m not one to talk, but those are my thoughts.) I am unsure of him. I think odd is trying to find credible and justified reasons to appear safe, which I can see from both alignments with a wagon on them.

Reading: Neutral

Question:

Do you think the wagon against you is justified? If not, who do you think is worth a push for scumreading?

mykonian

– My reactions to mykonian were a little off, I’ve understood that now. I guess I have a better view on his thinking, the small opinion posts he is dropping indicate that he wants to get reactions from others. (Wanting to drive responses through votes.) Which I think is necessary for getting information, even though I feel his suspicions are misplaced I have found some posts that I think are decent from him. I wish he posted more though.

Reading: Slight Town Lean

Question:

After you have read this entire post

what are your thoughts on me?

Elyse

– I have mixed thoughts about Elyse. Her getting us out of RVS and her assessing everyone for info and greater desire to find progress in questioning others seems very town-motivated. I think she’s one of the strongest players in here. But this also makes me worry because she could be a very smart scum, and in looking at her win ratio, she seems to be very good at either alignment. I also don’t see her readings on everyone particularly, and I say this to encourage some insight form her. Anyway my gut tells me she is town, I just hope that is and that her vote on me is realized to be misplaced. (Even though I’ve given her valid reason to vote due to sketchy play, that is all I can say but I hope my vibe gets across.)

Reading: Slight Town Lean

Question:

What do you think about RadiantCowbells?

Metalcyanide

– I was skeptic due to the attention he seemed to have obtained earlier in this day, but at seeing his recent posts, I’m liking them. I appreciated him giving concise reads about everyone so far, and I took his read on me as encouragement from him to explain my reads to you guys. Which is good for keeping the town together and getting useful information instead of just wagons and reactions.

Reading: Moderate Town Lean

Question:

Since you basically just did a read, what do you think about the people who have

not

responded? Also, what do you think about my reads?

Aquanim

– I think out of everyone in this game Aquanim has been the most revealing in his actions, reads, and analysis’. He is yet to jump on others with a vote(something I kind of failed to do), and openly admits that he doesn’t know enough of someone to have a read on them and I like that. RCs argument against him seems to be very fluffy and lacking real substance. I do have doubts about what are his readings on the most active people so far, but he seems genuine. This is subject to change, especially since this is early in the game but Reading:

Moderate Town Lean

Question:

Do you have any specific opinions on me, so far?

InsidiousLemons

– I don’t know much about his reads, I do think he is genuine. He’s expressed at the very least polite opinions in and outside of game speak on the thread. I think being genuine is a good town trait, it gives others deeper insight to your emotions and thought processes. Other than this, I think the thoughts he has put on about peoples posts are so far useful in contributing to a case on someone. Reading:

Moderate Town Lean

Question:

Do you think posts coming from newer players are more likely to be defensive?

Especially in games like these where there is a lot more activity going on.

If you aren’t part of this reading, you’re the small group of people who I don’t know enough to even have to say something on. I also think this small group of people could be lurkers, but they have lives. So I won’t say too much about them until I see more of them, or further lack thereof.

Sorry for the massive text wall, these are my currents thoughts and I would appreciate each of you to at least acknowledge and answer my questions.

[Taly]

Question: Do you think the wagon against you is justified? If not, who do you think is worth a push for scumreading?

Define justified. I think RC is using my angry behavior as an excuse to scumread me. I don't blame anybody else for scumreading me on the grounds that my first post responding to RC was so over the top I kind of gave everybody a good reason to scumread me. So I guess you could say it's justified.

Justified - Having a good and stable reason for something.

You answered my question, thank you. Do you think my read on RC makes sense? (Off of what we have seen)

[Taly]

Looking over Taly's read of me, I never tried to infer that you and Aqua were a scumteam. I suggested that when you and aqua came in to defend me, one of you might have been buddying me. Aqua's probably the better candidate for that all things considered. I don't think both of you are a team at this time, though I'm not going to rule it out either.

Oh, I read it as that. But anyway, I see what you're saying now. Do you have a specific read on me, then?

[Taly]

Speaking of lurkers, whats up where you been? ISOing you shows a bunch of fluff posts. I want some reads out of you.

Excuse me? I ardly qualify as a lurker, and my posts take positions. Fluff posting my arse.

I think he is just prompting you to give us your opinions and your reads. Just a thought would be nice

[Taly]

Looking over Taly's read of me, I never tried to infer that you and Aqua were a scumteam. I suggested that when you and aqua came in to defend me, one of you might have been buddying me. Aqua's probably the better candidate for that all things considered. I don't think both of you are a team at this time, though I'm not going to rule it out either.

Oh, I read it as that. But anyway, I see what you're saying now. Do you have a specific read on me, then?

I see no reason not to read you as town. You've been doing some solid scumhunting, and your posts generally seem well thought-out. I don't agree with every point on your readslist, but it looks pretty towny to me. Aside from my point about buddying – which looking over the post you made on me, that was less of a defense of me than I remembered – I've never agreed with the people scumreading you. So it's a tentative townread. Tentative because it's early Day 1, and I don't give anything more than tentative reads early Day 1.

OK, well - You seem to officially be on the slight townie lean list on me. For your cooperation in answering my questions, and how you haven't jumped to conclusions nor are you about to. You're also the first person to actually acknowledge my defense and points to others without trying to find a scumread, but instead more like a townread. (Which can be just as effective as scum hunting, because town hunting prevents actual town from being lynched for just reactive wagons.)

@pisskop

- OK, I would like to hear what you have to say as well, but if you're currently busy right now then I won't hold it against you unless it becomes oddly consistent. (Which it really hasn't yet, this is just the starting half of D1.)

[Taly]

@Elyse: Does admitting it make him more likely to be scum? I sort of see it the other way around.

@Taly: While I do appreciate the townread, I don't like where it's coming from. I might be misinterpreting but it feels like you're townreading me because I'm townreading you. This happens a lot, and town does it fairly frequently, so this doesn't really qualify as a scumread, just a reminder that scum frequently do townread people who are actually town, for towncred. (Ugh, that sentence had far too many instances of the word town in it).

I didn't address my read on you being town for towncred, it was simply you taking in my questions without dismissing, or oddly formulating your answers in response. I saw that you were being fully honest and I appreciated it, even though it may not be completely town motivation or even motivation at all - it just gave me a gut feeling that you were town. I'm just stating this and my position on you so people have a better view on my thoughts over your actions. I'm still not ruling out the idea you are completely neutral or even in fact scum, but this is just something I picked up from your responses and took it as a town type reply.

>>> @Elyse - I'm going to reply to your case one by one.

My case on Taly is this:

He placed a poor vote on mykonian and only unvoted when I put pressure on him.

I don't understand why you thought my vote on mykonian was poor, I justified myself on why I voted him, and even linked several posts that supported my concern. original post to mykonian I may have appeared reactive, but I wonder what you mean by "poor vote" since I had legitimate reasons. Can you explain?

Then, he backtracked and said that mykonian's explanation of his read caused him to unvote.

Despite the next part of your claim on this case, even though in part - your influence caused my unvote, mykonians reaction still took part. Don't give yourself all the credit. (I'm sorry if this comes across as a bit harsh, it is really not intended to.) That's not the case.

However, I pointed on that this was not true since Taly posted three times after mykonian's explanation and did not unvote. Upon pressing him further, he admitted my pressure did have an influence on his unvote.

To be honest, I was at first rattled by you pressuring me, especially because I had already stated several times why I voted mykonian. And yes, your pressuring did have a final influence in my unvoting, but I did this out of fear that people(IE, you and others) would use my own words against me. I really believed I was making valid points over mykonian, and at the time(I was in a frustrated mindset) I was panicked and defensive because I thought you were dismissing my efforts to try and find info. from people. Of course, this probably doesn't even justify that I did indirectly lied to you, but this doesn't mean I'm exactly worthy of a scum vote because I put effort in trying to get opinions.

I just thought people were detracting from getting progress on finding out the readings of others. I'm sorry I won't be dishonest like that again, I know these words don't have so much credibility, but I really have nothing else that I can say to that. If I were scum, I probably would have just kept avoiding you about admitting this. I just realized at that moment it would be best for me to be open and tell you what I really thought so I would not have anything to suspect or hide.

If this doesn't make you see my position then I don't know what will, can you tell me what you don't understand in my post if you don't?

*Also, 259 are where my full reads so far are at, if you've read them. I have a question there for you. (Same as everyone else.)

[Taly]

@oddmusic
I think admitting it due to pressure negates any towniness about it. But yes that did make me question myself a little bit.

@Taly
I liked RC's early posts but I don't like his push on Aquanim. Leaning town but not strongly.

I'm saying your vote was poor because you retracted it after a little bit of a pressure and a standard explanation from mykonian. Most early votes in the game are poor.

With regard to everything else, you literally said earlier in the game there is no reason to be dishonest as town, yet now you admit to dishonesty. You don't handle pressure well and I think you "coming clean" is a defense mechanism to make you look like a confused townie. However, it contradicts what you said earlier and I'm not going to give you a free pass because you seem like a nice person. I'm sorry. But nice people can be scum too.

I'm not saying not to vote on someone whether they are nice or not. I admitted to being pressured

BECAUSE

I realized that I contradicted myself and so I came clean. That is in part a defense mechanism

but it is the truth

- not me pretending I'm dumb because I realized I slipped up.

You can continue to think what you want, but I've said everything in my defense and I am not lying about this. (Not lying about my intent and my reaction to it that is.)

[Taly]

Quick post time

Pisskop -

Just get in here when you can and give us some reads.

Taly -

Question:

Since you basically just did a read, what do you think about the people who have

not

responded? Also, what do you think about my reads?

I think we have heard from everyone except RC, who I do want to hear from but I will give just a little more time before I make a fuss about it.
I don't have any major issues with your reads. I disagree with a few, notably Tool and Odd but otherwise they seem okay. My issue with your Tool read is I feel like he hasn't said enough for you to place him on this list as just neutral, but that may be my own issues with his low post count (although his last post is extensive). Odd I feel like should be a cautious scum lean that would change to probably town if RC is were to flip scum.

With that last part said VOTE: RadiantCowbells. RC makes me nervous, I don't really like the push on Odd then the switch over to Aqua. I see this as the best D1 lynch right now and the flip, either way, would provide us with the most information.

Well, my only scum reads thus far is RC, I am cautious about Odd. I just think RC takes higher priority for her overall approach. And yeah, you are correct about the info. part.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

>>>InsidiousLemons

@ 283 I know I'm not one to be forgiven even if I were stressed, I wasn't meaning for me to come across for you validating my position. I just genuinely wondered your thoughts over it.

And also good, I'd like to hear your reads.

[Taly]

Additional thoughts on a couple of players.

Mykonian's posting a lot without actually giving reasons for his posts. His most recent post was the key to me wanting to check over his ISO, and his only high content post was a scumread on Taly (181).

I am a little curious why Taly just switched his vote onto RadiantCowbells, considering it was quite a few posts ago that RC was his top scumread (that would be 259).

I think I like Insidious Lemons' posts thus far. Lots of analysis, lots of questioning mostly good stuff. A scumread on me last he talked about me, but I can't say I didn't earn it.

You just opened my eyes up again about the topic of Mykonian. Yeah, the fact that Mykonian was not explaining himself was why I voted and put up a mini-case on him, I didn't trust it.

Now looking back at it, I don't trust it that the only major reason he has given an opinion about anything was about a scumread directed to a post that put up a case about him not explaining his opinions.

And about my vote, other than Mykonian, most of my reads from my previous post earlier today have not changed. Seeing that RC is still at the top of my scum list, I thought I'd just vote against her to see if I can get info. (Also because I think her play has been manipulative to some degree.)

Other than RC, the only person I'm afraid that could be scum(this is very vague and light) would be Mykonian. But he isn't my priority at the moment since I already tried to bring him in the spotlight with my analysis though that didn't quite work in my favor.

Either way, my vote for RC still stands.

[Taly]

School is closed due to weather, I have actually slept for a night the past few days, and I’m in a better mentality for putting my thoughts across.

RadiantCowbells

– I think this is her overall behavior and meta, but her abrasiveness and confidence in her arguments is off-putting to me. Especially with her arguments towards Aquanim and others she’s jumped on, it doesn’t have a lot of substance. I’m impressed she seems to know quite a bit about “cognitive dissonance,” pressure, and other things she said she has applied in this game. She can be a rough townie, or a competent scum. So far, I haven’t seen much I can trust and my gut tells me she can manipulate others. Even though her scumhunting may be town-motivated, I just haven’t seen something I liked yet.

Reading: Slight Lean Scum

Question:

Can you elaborate on your case on Aquanim?

And supposedly the other 3 people you've seem to think were good lynches this early in D1?

This is why I voted for RC, I just took her posts arguing with Aquanim to not be very useful because it just seemed like talk instead of reason. I also voted for RC about her wording, I didn't like that and that is explained a bit in this post. I also didn't like how she has jumped onto 3 to 4 different people as scum suspects in the matter of a few days, we are only in the first half of D1 here, and she still hasn't answered my questions regarding this.

I'm voting against RC for alignment reasons, it has nothing to do with my desire in getting her lynched. I also certainly didn't vote for RC because Metal did, I just realized that she was currently the highest in my scum list and I voted.

At this point, if the majority is willing to lynch me, I wonder what their reactions will be when it shows I'm town.

[Taly]

I kind of agree with odd in 153 that this is a very fast paced game(which I don't think is bad), but I would say he was overreacting in a sense which could be scum or town reaction, I think the current wagon is very valid, but I wouldn't just base someone as scum off of them losing their head for a moment, unless it was consistent and less explained.

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions to try and see a better side of me because they were obviously unsure since they didn't know that much. I want people to ask questions because it seems town-motivated to for the questioning, and questioned to realize the side of the other, and both to understand information to know what to do to press forward. Also, I agree with Aquanim in post 144 - you haven't given any reasons for any of your reads as far as I've seen and even when answered in post 149 you didn't even elaborate on top of that. Other than this, I haven't seen many posts from you indicating a lot of insight, or at the very least, town-motivated thoughts.

VOTE: mykonian

Additionally, I'll listen to Elyse if she is going to digress on why she still wants to vote for eektor. I'd like to hear it

@Elyse ^^ Question above

So is Myk a scum read or just a not-town read?

I would lean more to slight scum lean, mostly because he really has not given any information to suggest otherwise.

340

I was trying to get mykonian to re-evaluate his read, I also further asserted my idea that he wasn't giving information, and the fact he went on to a scumread and already avoided my question once seemed like this whole thing was detracting more than actually helping.

>>>

After reading another RC VS Aqua smackdown

323

Why is RC taking credit for the wagon against me?

325 The

only

person who has a valid case against my right now is Elyse, and that is due to admittedly shaky play on my part.

The

ONLY

reason why I'm at L-2 in what I've seen is that

I VOTED AGAINST RC, who was and still is my strongest scum read.

326 Great, so you created a wagon against Aqua

NOT

because he was probably town, but because you

DON'T

like him. ALSO - You really have no reason go after Odd at this point, he overreacted and waffled once, he said it was a bad day it was genuine,

why still push for that?

You have not given us any reasons.

331 This, right here, is why I think RC has been manipulative in this game. Her reasoning, wording, and actions have been mostly inconsistent and detracts from ACTUALLY finding out scum based of alignment reasons.

OH - And what have I contributed to town?

>Put(at least tried) things in perspective about how town would and should appear. = 183
>Confirmed all my reads on most everyone here, was receptive(for the most part) to questions, and asked them all the same
>Admitted to shaky play(even though it did put a case on me, I came clean) 239 243 273 275
>Formed a semi-wagon on RC 259
>Put to light that I did not have enough info. to judge someone as alignment indicative, this shows patience in my eyes. 259
>Also openly said what I liked and/or disliked about someones posts. 259 282
>Questioned and put someone who had given LITTLE info. to us on the spotlight. Mykonian now is having to do something if he wants to survive beyond me at this point I'm assuming. (Unless RC convinces everyone she is town again and then will jump onto everyone else is isn't on the wagon against me.) = 176 287 311

3 of which of things I've done went back and has contributed to my case, and why people built a wagon on me. (Mostly off of little reason.)

Also - 199 <<<< This isn't personal, but I really don't think you know what you want.

[Taly]

hmm, no, don't think so taly. I don't think you get credit for putting me in the spotlight. I've made two whole posts about voting a townread, you'd really need to step up your game.

And coming clean isn't a thing in mafia. If you are scum at the start of the game, you are scum for the entirity of the game. You can't say "sorry" about a post that exposes you.

@aquanim, iso me for a case on Taly. It's one of the last posts.

You may have validity in your first sentence, and I know coming clean isn't exactly normal in mafia.

But I really doubt you'd see actual scum openly admitting to a mistake to others. Even if they would do that for town cred, I don't think you can just pass that off as me being scum either way. I've justified myself, and even though at this point that really doesn't seem to hold up a lot, that's my defense and I don't agree with all the reasons people are on my wagon. I'm pretty sure there are 1, maybe 2 people on my wagon that aren't even voting for alignment reasons. (RC specifically for 199 and 326)

Overall, it seems like the people who are town-reading me(or not voting against me) are as plentiful as the people who are on a wagon against me. So in terms of me being a D1 lynch, that seems very likely but I don't know what everyone elses thoughts are on about that yet. Nor does it matter much because I've said almost everything I possibly can to make a case, defend myself, give reasons for my thoughts on most everything else, and try to make it known that I am town. I have made mistakes, and that is to be expected since I'm a noob(I am not saying that this an excuse, just something I expected from playing several games on a forum at once.) I just knew this would happen in one of them.

Also, we are only in the first half of D1 and quite a few people seem confident in a lynch? That seems odd, but nevertheless. I know I haven't been as helpful as town to you guys as I could have been (since Elyses and part of your case is valid on me), but the mentality some people have displayed here really are inconsistent, and I feel like that contributes a lot to most D1 lynches being a townie, or someone who has made accurate predictions about someone.

This post kind of turned from me defending myself to me talking about logistics of the game. I know few people will actually listen to me now since they probably are happy they aren't getting lynched, I just hope people know the consequences that'd come from lynching someone. (Whether they are scum, a townie, etc. -- This is also why I weigh so heavily on trying to find alignment in posts as opposed to people messing up.)

Whatever, I'm rambling and I've put my point across.

[Taly]

I don't like the interaction between Aqua and RC. It seems fake.

Do you think you're seeing fake in the sense that RC is scum, I'm scum, or we're both scum?

I'm not sure yet. It's not something I'm interested in pursuing right now, but RC used horrible WIFOM (that someone pointed out later) to justify his actions and you agreed with him almost immediately. It's fishy.

@Elyse

: Can I get from you a one paragraph or so summary of why you think Taly is scum?

Sure.

Taly placed a vote on mykonian and said he unvoted because of mykonian's explanation of his reads. I pointed out that this was untrue because Taly posted three times after mykonian's explanation and only unvoted after pressure from me. He later admitted this to be true and apologized for being dishonest. However, earlier in the game I pressed him about honesty and asked if it was ever acceptable for town to be dishonest. He said no, but contradicted himself when he was openly dishonest for fear of looking bad. This has moved him from newbscum to newbtown in my opinion. He then talked about how he "came clean" and explained his true intentions. It just seems like he's trying to cover up his obviously scummy behavior by playing the newb card and hoping everyone will sweep it under the rug.

OK, there's a few things I'm not understanding here.

1)

However, earlier in the game I pressed him about honesty and asked if it was ever acceptable for town to be dishonest. He said no,

When was this?

I don't remember a conversation between us directly Elyse, until you confronted me about mykonian. (At least not about honesty - Could you link the posts?) I don't think I explicitly said it was unacceptable for town to be dishonest. (It does render towns progress) It's just that I skimmed over the past few pages and I don't recall saying this.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Another thing about this - The only thing I've said was that I was being honest(and then not telling the full truth) - AKA, me not saying your pressure influenced me. I did contradict and wasn't fully honest about that, I admit.

2)

This has moved him from newbscum to newbtown in my opinion. He then talked about how he "came clean" and explained his true intentions. It just seems like he's trying to cover up his obviously scummy behavior by playing the newb card and hoping everyone will sweep it under the rug.

This is the first I've seen that you've given me a townread

,

but then you were talking about me covering up my shaky behavior with the newbie card?

354 I said me being a noobie didn't excuse the fact that I created an obstruction for the town anyhow. I just said that you normally wouldn't see scum openly admitting mistakes and then went on a mini-rant about the logistics of how the norm D1 goes, and how that incorporates in this game.

Plus, I said I had almost

little to nothing

to say to continue on for a defense on this.

Why would I expect people to just magically unvote(while being at L-2 at the time) me just for me saying: "I'm a noob and I did a mistake..."

And 3 and finally) What IS your read on me? Individually? I think you're saying I'm town, but you're giving reasons to possibly suspect I'm really scum? Sorry, this paragraph confused me.

>>>>>

School is closed due to weather, I have actually slept for a night the past few days, and I’m in a better mentality for putting my thoughts across.

You have a lot of townreads and only 1 scumread.
Who do you think are the best lynches today?

Well, I do have my vote on RC and that will be my default until I have stronger reason on someone else

(Wnich may change even in this post because typing this helps me sort priorities

). However, I have analyzed a bit on RC's posts..." I'm not liking them as much as anyone else, but :

356 gave me a gut feeling that she may just be inconsistent in her playstyle.

333 and 334 <<< Looking back at this, I liked how RC ultimately diffused the situation. (even though I don't know how it started really.) Even though her other statements in this back and forth concerned me, she did show that she had a better idea on who is who(she gave indirect reads on aqua and what she knew aqua knew of her), and ultimately said that the whole thing wasn't helping town and I liked to hear that motivation, she seemed willing to do good.

She's still on my scum list, just not as strong as before....

I think I'd be willing to not lynch her now because I want to see more before I'm certain she is crazy.... ;p (half-joking)

>>>> Other than her, Myko has really worried me. I didn't like his argument in:

349 <<< He came off as really confident to me. "And coming clean isn't a thing in mafia. If you are scum at the start of the game, you are scum for the entirity of the game. You can't say "sorry" about a post that exposes you."

1) The problem I have the MOST with this. "Coming clean isn't a thing in mafia." <<<< Sure coming clean can make people suspect scum, but this tells me you really wouldn't be honest to help the town if it meant making you look bad. You are correct about that, but generalizing that this "isn't a thing" gives me a bad gut feeling. It also makes me wonder if that's why you don't always share your reads and don't let your intentions known often.

2) Second sentence -

What?

What are you trying to tell me? That just so someone makes a mistake they are always going to be not useful and scum? Are you

THAT

confident in asserting someone did something alignment indicative over something you didn't like?

3) Well I did, even though there is now a valid case over me(also courtesy of you because you obviously think I'm mafia completely by the implications of your previous statements), does that mean that things are that

acute

if it doesn't seem right? It may be the middle of D1 but you could at least try to see other possibilities in this situation.

352 and 353 = 354 Not best argument to this, but this does explain myself a bit more.

>>> I don't know, the more Mykonian posts the more I'm not liking it. Also, in 353 he makes it known I'm going to be the D1 lynch, and gives only 5 other people reads that aren't even explained. I can get why he would want more info. but I don't think it goes well with him asserting his already validated argument, to someone who could have just been so easily lynched if people change at that point. I didn't see much help it did to others.

Mykonian may just be stronger vote than RC, but since everyone seems to be having changed reads, votes, and ideas lately.... People seem to think he isn't that bad of a read. (from what I've read)

And I don't even like saying "who should we lynch" when we still have at least a few days further in D1

.

But, I would say Mykonian(probably not, but maybe RC) is the lynch of D1, other than them... I would gladly boot a player who has not been very active or helpful in their thoughts lately. (Like eektor, for example.)

So, I'm unsure about RC, so she is second/third on my vote/thinking to lynch

I'd be good for a Mykonian lynch today.

If eektor was lynched, that wouldn't bother me. (I know I just brought him up but he is not convincing people of his position otherwise.) I will be receptive to questions concerning this statement if you feel this is weird.)

Yeah, thanks for asking odd/aqua. You guys helped me sort my thoughts indirectly.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

[Taly]

411 I'm not sure where you're getting out here, everything you listed that could be useful for scum, why is it not helpful for the town to see that thinking? (Letting others know your intentions and ideas) You point out both possibilities of thinking and then go to say it is scum because that's how things went for you?

412

Bullet about 113 = I've made and said my actions and intentions revolving around this...

About 178 - I was just addressing the way mykonian reacted to my push and wondered if he was trying to show the idea that my reason for pushing him was just overreacting and the case had no real substance.

About 239 -

Because exposing myself while full well knowing that people can put up a case that I am scum TOTALLY disguises reasons for wanting to back away from a vote to AVOID being thought of as scum. I sincerely have no idea how you came up with this conclusion.

About 259 -

Did you even read my list?

Even though Aqua and Myko had a point that some of my reads weren't useful, I brought things to light that nobody talked about. (How RC worded herself) - And since you're referring to a scumread that has almost become null with me right now... Let me just make a list here:

1) I gave reasons for RC....
2) I gave reasons in later posts YOU JUST LINKED, saying how I don't think RC is the strongest scumread for me to wanting to lynch right now.

Which makes your argument saying that my "not explained" scumread is scummy invalid. That's a contradiction.

3) So you say that my scumread who "didn't have information" was scummy, when several people so far have made bullets and small lists with literally nothing to back up why they think their reads are that.

At least I said something, do you think I'm scum for actually posting an analysis?

About 281 -

..........If you're giving me any credit for the RC wagon...........

Why are you saying I jumped on that when momentum came that way?.... Do you even know what you're talking about?

About 288 - ........I'm going to have to break this up into 2 things.....

Lets Odd talk him back into scumreading mykonian again pretty easily (#288)

1) In the SAME POST, I said explicitly:

Either way, my vote for RC still stands.

How is Odd convincing me to vote for Mykonian when all I said was:

You just opened my eyes up again about the topic of Mykonian. Yeah, the fact that Mykonian was not explaining himself was why I voted and put up a mini-case on him, I didn't trust it. Now looking back at it, I don't trust it that the only major reason he has given an opinion about anything was about a scumread directed to a post that put up a case about him not explaining his opinions.

I kept my vote, which instantly makes your entire claim and reasoning for linking that post saying that Odd talked me into scumreading him invalid. Plus, I even mentioned before hand I was still unsure of Mykonian.

2) Furthermore, the only thing you can say I've done was ACKNOWLEDGE what Odd told me, because I realized that there are things about Mykonian I was still not liking then. And plus, if Odd WAS supposedly persuading me to make my vote

(Which I just said wasn't even the case),

why isn't it his deal? You could have seen that for him:
Town Motivation: Odd could have been enlightening me
Scum Motivation: Odd could be manipulating me

Why is THAT not the discussion? Instead of more like

"I just found a small smidget of Taly being stupid, let's analyze and find reasons to say he is scum for it."

I think you're pulling reasons out of nowhere with little valid text to back it up.

Now for the second part,

then revotes mykonian (369)

1) Did you not even read my post?

Or what PROMPTED it?

366 and 368 - pisskop and odd wanted to know what my thoughts on who to vote for the best day for lynching was.

I did tell them and elaborated.

2) This was a few several posts after my read on 259 --

My reads changed, and I explained why RC wasn't as scum to me(but she is still on radar) and why Mykonian was a better lynch to me after all.

I even said at the beginning to the response to that:

(Which may change even in this post because typing this helps me sort priorities)

Why is this even an argument to back up a case on me?

It feels like you're nit-picking and leading to assumptions about my play to add onto a case that I am scum. The problem with this is:

You're working on things that have either been justified, overly-talked about, and even dismissed of

.

You

literally

could have read the rest of my posts on some of these to find out the explanation and answers to your case. This makes me think you're also voting against me not entirely on alignment reasons. You see that there is a wagon and you want to vote and hammer on it so you will find one less person in this game that doesn't align with your readings.

I already explained myself more than I should have on most of my posts, I feel like now - People are still adding things onto a case that really doesn't have the weight it once had because

"they want to be apart of a vote"

and

"they don't want to be the ones lynched on D1."

Everyone except for elyse and MAYBE(just maybe) Mykonian

have no reason to pro-long this brain-bowel-evacuation of a dying-wagon-train because they have

actually have legitimate claims.

Not just conclusions that jumped to without sufficient info. because they are actually trying to

HELP

towns progress.

Not adding gasoline to a fire.

I'm genuinely sorry I am being a bit of a jerk here, this isn't usually like me, I have nothing to lose at this point and I really see major flaws in some peoples thinking in here, and all people have done is want to continue a wagon just so they want a lynch.

To sum it up, I don't like 412 And it has nothing to due with why Tool wanted to lynch me, I don't see logic here.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

@Elyse
Sigh, well sorry if part of my reasoning against that is invalid. I have said all I pretty much could say... Whether you still think I'm noobtown or noobscum is up to you.

But know this:

I am not taking any claims people have on me personally, I am riled up by all the things that came from me contradicting myself in a post or two. Even after all my explanation and defense.

This game in particular is becoming unsatisfying, people say they are giving town cred to me, and then others go back and try to make a case against me where there is nothing of true substance to make. This is the mentality of D1 that renders the progress of town. Nobody is trying to bring the town together to make an accurate assumption, it's just I've been in the lime-light of all this negative and I am convenient of a lynch. I know this, and that is why I really don't mind if I am lynched, you guys understand I am town. I do contradict myself, but a lot of my words are true. I doubt this paragraph has much credibility as they same as the rest of my arguments(because only a select few people acknowledge all of what is being said), but that is what I'm standing by and as a game - that is what you guys are to determine what to make of it.

Finally, I'm done trying to argue, if everyone really wants me to be D1 lynch, I can't stop it. I'm just putting out why I think a lot of peoples thoughts claiming I'm scum are invalid. Either way, I don't want to make this a cycle, so I'm putting out all of this.

[Taly]

429 - It's OK, Aqua. I keep responding even though I'm done trying to argue because as I've said in 416, I'm still going to keep revealing the flaws in peoples arguments because I'm still playing for my win condition. (Town, of course.)

Even when/if I'm mislynch, they'll see that I am a town power role... I wonder who they'll blame scum on then, seeing how they're the most active on my wagon.

Speaking of mislynches, 419 - RC, if you still think odd is a worthy vote, then I would hope you vote on him and get me back to L-3(And odd up to L-3). Not a demand or a request, just a thought, even though you probably still might want me lynched.

Back to you, Aqua - I find it rather funny how much they're willing to say that I am scum, but they're the ones asking you why you're defending me so much.

Why hasn't anyone questioned them?

Also, with 421 and 423 - I think anything that is emotional would come from a townie in distress,

townies should not feel like they need to sacrifice themselves

because that is playing directly for a scumwin. The fact that you think that is so acute in how everything goes here makes me question your alignment thoroughly now, Elyse.

I mean, Elyses case was official

250 posts ago

, and no lynch has been made, and we are STILL on this topic as the main drive in the progression of this game. Seem a little weird? Why is she the main person who has made a major case on anyone yet? Do you have something to say,

Miss Mafia?

You seem very inclined to say all of my behavior is noobscum but you've yet to say anything about the thoughts you "seemed to have had for me" earlier in the game that indicated noobtown. I mean, I thought that's what you meant in 365 - but you tripped up, and verified what you meant in 379. I like how you're quick to jump on those who misstep, and continue a case for as long as possible for your thinking of it - I'd be more cautious if I were in your position.

Either way, I have a good idea just hear me out:

> Elyse was the only person to intervene about me and Mykonian, and for quite a few pages later until someone asked, she was the only person driving the idea that I was scum on board.

Why did Mykonian no longer question or say anything to me until after

Elyse had kept insisting that I was lying and was being scummy, to get me to reveal the full truth?

It's a hunch, but like I said in a VERY early post - Elyse has very good win-ratios, especially with Mafia. I give her full props for manipulating the town, but if

her and a Mykonian team is true

, (like it is beginning to appear with me) - I wouldn't mind a few votes and cases on her.

Speaking of Mykonian

427 and 446 Cute reactions, Mykonian.

Especially since Aqua was speaking to ELYSE, and not YOU

. Are you always this provocative when you feel like

you're losing an edge?

Aqua and the 5 other people not on top of me right now have different reads than you, and you go off on Aqua(whos contributing to NEW ideas for the town) with these posts? You're way too critical and way too eager to lynch and assume the other person is wrong. I've seen that you're becoming a bit more defensive than I was. You're dismissal of Aqua and your emotions in 455 seem vague and not so justified.

Like I've said before, this is just a hunch - but something tells me Mykonian and Elyse are a possible scum team - they've been working and defending one another and they're both most active on my wagon. (I don't see Tools logic,

eektor should be lynched for his lack of help assuming he doesn't even know why he voted for me other than being a sheep on a wagon

, and assuming RC will revote for Odd again - that's all of everyone who thinks I'm really scum. Which, by he way, is not even half the people against me right now.)

But what I said to Aqua in my first few sentences in this post stand true, I'm just bringing to light that Mykonian and Elyse are scum. I do have valid reasons, and I have justified and explained myself in practically every post in this thread. Whether Mykonian has done almost none at all, and Elyse hasn't really said much else of what she's been saying indirectly the past 5 pages.

[Taly]

457

Oh... Darn, I thought you were still on my wagon. Sorry about that - dismiss what I said about the sheeping then.

458

Indirectly, I'm at L-2 and I'm not linking any PMs from anyone, so I guess trying to honestly disclose what my role is through my own words is OK for the rules.

Though, yes, I am claiming I am a town power role. Whether you think that is true or not, I don't know. But I am being truthful about that.

[Taly]

457

Oh... Darn, I thought you were still on my wagon. Sorry about that - dismiss what I said about the sheeping then.

458

Indirectly, I'm at L-2 and I'm not linking any PMs from anyone, so I guess trying to honestly disclose what my role is through my own words is OK for the rules.

Though, yes, I am claiming I am a town power role. Whether you think that is true or not, I don't know. But I am being truthful about that.

I never explicitly said before that I was or wasn't a power role, just saying that I was a townie role. (Just putting this out there before people misrep or something.)

[Taly]

I don't really like how Taly is needlessly insisting over and over again that he is town. It kind of looks like overcautious scum. Also, a vague PR claim after having been at L-2 for a fair while is a bit odd. However, I'll admit I have been skimming a bit, sorry for the lack of posts recently, I've been super busy, I'll try to catch up and post some more soon.

IL, what do I have to gain for being cautious at this at this point?

Let's just say I was scum:

1)

I know claiming roles especially right now in this game is dangerous and risky for me - do you see a scum doing this? This is behavior that would continually assert the idea that they were scum. Because:

A)

Of course, people will be shifty about ANYBODY claiming a role, and would likely want to proceed to go for them(via vote, or questioning)

B)

This could also render the other scums' efforts in wanting to seem townie. (Scummies win a lot because people quickly assume that they are town for how they appear) Well, I'd be putting myself and my scum team in trouble for claiming a town role not only for suspicion, but it would damage and go against the very win condition of the scum team. (Indirectly and technically speaking.)

2)

People will naturally conclude that that person is scum - and that could lead to misreps provided their survival in the future, and can ultimately lead to a town win.

Now, let's say that I really am what I say(Town):

1)

Claiming roles would put be at a disadvantage because people would still be shifty on my true role and people could even misrep and count it as further reason that I am scum. Here is my argument to this and my reason/logic behind it:

A)

I'm at L-2, and I've really nothing else to defend myself over at this point, at least I'm still making analysis' about people and continuing to paly the game despite the adversity. Even though making a role claim at this point could lead to my lynch - I say I am being honest, (and you really don't have a lot to just take my word for it) - if my claim was

TRUE

, and it led to my

LYNCH

....

*It could give some seriously helpful data to townies in questioning who is truly and possibly scum in the game, based off all the info I have given in analysis and claims so far.* IF, I were to be mislynched with this claim holding true.

B)

It could alternatively make people see my genuine thoughts and help keep me in the game awhile longer. Which helps town in any case, provided that I am being honest. (Which all people can do is take what I said as a bluff, or the truth. And I already said what it was)

---- That's just my logic behind it. It's not like I'm in a good position to say something like this anyway in the first place

,(not discrediting myself anyhow)

so that's all there is to it.

[Taly]

. Okay. So about tTaly being scum . . .

So about me being scum...? Do you have an opinion?

[Taly]

I wasn't voting you, nor did I have you in my top 3.
What about it?

Oh, I was just wondering where you thought I was on your charts, since I didn't know what to make of that post.

Well, that's all I needed to know.

[Taly]

Really wasn't necessary to claim Taly, especially considering you knew I was gonna pull off.

You're right, I was unsure of how you'd react to the last few pages beforehand. Well, you've earned a point of trust.

In any case, I'm still searching for a reason to be cautious with half of these people due to the fueled wildfire that should have burned these last 10 pages of the thread.

However, I do feel my playstyle is becoming a bit more fluid in self-analysis. Perhaps I gain game experience through surviving these games, I feel more inclined to be less formal and more like how I am. (Without feeling inclined to formalities) It is rather refreshing. (I wonder if this is either triggered by almost being hammered, and/or we're at the 20 page mark in this game.)

[/post]480[/post] I think it is possible. Odd and metal would make a strong pairing, however - I haven't read a lot from metal, and I've townread them both. I might want to see more of them for a better conclusion. Metal is off on VLA though, and odd hasn't spoken much since so I wonder what's up there.

I don't think entertaining an Odd-Taly scummy buddy team makes sense. We've both disclosed ideas to everyone that we have disagreed, agree, defended, and somewhat not entirely go with each other. I also don't get why Odd and I would be considered as a

scum team since we were the top wagons in the last 8 pages or so.

That's like saying:

"Oh, you're both scum! We found you out on D1! All because we voted you, and you suck kthxbye. "

I think it's dangerous on pairing a scum team on D1(not that I could talk, because I've just done this.) - but I think the Odd/Metal think is looking quite likely, and I've said all I wanted to on the Odd-Taly subject.

467 Searching for something to respond to.... pending.......... pending...............

OK, so you still think I am your strongest scum read, Elyse? That's funny, there's PLENTY of things that have been said that you could see as scummy as what I said 13 pages ago. Also, if you read my previous posts

invalidating peoples misreps

on me, you can see that some peoples voting and reasonings don't completely align, yes?

In Aqua's defense, I think he is one of the most town of us all. (This is partially gut, ironically.) I mean,

what scum would go to these lengths to defend what they think as townie?

Even if Aqua and I were scum buddies, I feel like at this point one of us would have dumped the other right about now in favor of a wagon to save the others butt. Not saying I'd personally do that, but I believe the townie explanation quite a bit more than the latter.

Also, Aqua, WOW. You've managed to flatter, surprise, scare, and make me grateful of you all in a page of posts. I hope you're town, because if you're scum, I might as well jump off a cliff.

Back to M.Mafia, about the text thing - I

emphasize

the points I want to get across to people the most. Sorry that it's bothering you, I will do it less.

[Taly]

Sigh, mod can you fix the link for the in 482 about post 480? Thanks

Also Elyse, my main point is. I think you might want to start re-evaluating your position and reads. Reads are extremely fluid elements in this game, (unless they're strong and gut) - so still trying to scumread me and find more reasons to say I am scum isn't really helping out a a lot.

[Taly]

Ok don't respond to my legitimate points that's cool too.

Oh, you want me to reply? OK.

It's my fault that my case on you has dominated discussion? Maybe it's because it's the only legit case out there - something you even acknowledged. I don't get why you're all in a huff about your wagon when you admit that my case has merit. I mean I get that you are going to defend yourself but you're acting as if everyone is crazy for voting you because you're being honest. Hint: No one can tell if you're being honest. Saying it does not help. And people are less likely to believe you when you've admitted to lying in the past.

Yes, I did in fact acknowledge that you had a legitimate case. But for several pages of people misrepping my posts, *cough* 412 *cough* a few mykonian reactions, but I'm not getting into that just yet *cough* ---- And still no lynch on me, with overall ambivalent reads from the town - I'm beginning to think that holding up this case on me now is just your way of trying to get me lynched, and/or trying to divert attention away from other things that have happened.

I never thought you were noobtown. Your posts obviously indicated that you're a newbie, and the various contradictions and AtEs made me decide noobscum rather than noobtown.

Yeah, because I said I was a noobie..... Also, I have contradicted myself, but I feel as though I haven't been the only one here. I'm not liking the attention this case is still getting. Or at the very least, how far you'd want to go to lynch me.

The point of this game is to lynch your scumreads. That's what I'm doing.

Again, yes, and I already said you should re-evaluate it and why. If you still don't get it, then

ask.

Also, quite a few of us have YET to hear your reads on most anyone here. A lot of your posts seem like you keep trying to prove a point that has already been proven halfway in this thread already. Can you try to just look at other people right now and see if you change your outlook on this? I think refreshing it gives you quite a bit of insight on

who really is who.

So please, can you give me a read on others? I already know you want me lynched.

Here we go.

Is this your way of indirectly telling everyone that you're not willing to hear what I say because you think everything I do at this point indicates scum?

I think the real problem here is that you were lying and I pressed you to get the truth. I'll let mykonian address your question about why he didn't intervene but my guess it that I was doing a good enough job of pressuring you on my own.

Oh really? Did you ever ask the question why

mykonian

DIDN'T

intervene?

I'm sorry, but ANYONE who falls back to hide behind someone else to do pressuring for them is a very weak scum tactic in my mind. Plus, I

NEVER

legitimately spoke to you at that point, you just inserted yourself into this when I was suspicious of mykonian, then you just pushed to find reasons why:

A)

I was false

B)

I was scum

C)

I was playing shakily(which was in part true, I'll give you that)

It just doesn't look like a good set-up.

So you're scumreading me for being a good player? Come on now.

Not particularly, funny that you laugh at that because it is true on your wiki page. I'm not exactly scumreading you for being a strong player, I'm scumreading you

because I think you are one of the best at deception in this game

. It even re-iterates itself in your signature. Also, the idea that you're still coming onto me, and people still think you're towny, kind of validates the reasoning just a bit, no?

Again, I don't understand how you can possibly scumread me for voting you and pushing your lynch when you have admitted my case on you is legitimate. And where am I defending mykonian?

I already said where you were defending Mykonian in a previous respone in this post. Now let me show you a few posts where Mykonian was defending you:

My post emphasizing this in 456 did pretty well on this subject. Why was Mykonian complaining to Aqua? It felt like Aqua genuinely believed you guys were headed for a mislynch and you not only:

A) Dismiss him(you and mykonian)
B) Insult him(mykonian)
C) Validate that you both were against me and defending each other(mostly mykonian)
D) Question him on why he was so bent on helping me(you - Elyse)

Elyse, why don't you just reflect on yourself for a moment? Have you done that much different?

If eektor should be lynched then why aren't you voting for him?

I already told eektor to dismiss the error in 459 It was a minor calculation error on my part.

Also, I still think you and Mykonian are likely scum candidates. If you're unsure, just as me questions over this.

No you haven't considering this is the first time you've brought it up.

It was the first time I brought up you and Mykonian being scum, yes.

But I've elaborated so many times on my reasons and justified myself on my claims and ideas and defended myself. Which saying this again loses credibility, but I'm willing to say it to let everyone know I don't know what more they want from me.

I've also suspected mykonian ever since like.... 13-14 pages ago?

I don't know what this means.

It means that Mykonian hasn't really elaborated on some of his reads until recently, which most were to defend himself from MY posts. And a lot of what your posts just seems to validate your already validated case, and you're just pushing for me to get mislynched. Not that you'd know until everyone sees on D2 that I was right. If people really do want me out of here.

And then Taly insists he's being genuine. And he softclaims. Softclaiming is a pet peeve of mine and I hate it so so much. It's also a scumtell. A newbtown like Taly would be more likely to blurt out his entire role as a last minute defense. Instead, he's holding his cards close to his chest and leaving an option to claim whatever he wants, but also claiming PR to make people scared of lynching him. He clearly thought about using it as a defense rather than it being a gut reaction. He's scum.

Oh, so you want to know my role? I'm a Town Role-Blocker. I can keep you from NKing everyone who doesn't agree with you. Does that upset you?

I hope this post made you feel better about yourself just for a moment.

Now that Odd is gone, everyones going to want to lynch me now as a scapegoat. If Odd is town, and then I'm lynched as town(which proves I was right)

Scum will have an advantage over this game - At least, nobody would have much reason to suspect Aqua anymore. And everyone would know how wrong they were. And know how much more likely Elyse and Mykonian are scum.

Preview edit- Mykonian

, don't start feeling yourself. I haven't been mislynched yet.

[Taly]

This is highly depressing. :/

[Taly]

Not that I blame you for the kill, pisskop.

At least now we know you're town?

[Taly]

Well now I just feel silly. Im sure I'll be more successful this next time.

Also pisskop, who are your top 3 scum reads at this point? (After odds end)

And also, who are you town reading?

[Taly]

@Mod

RC voted for oddmusic in 469

Even though odd is now dead, wouldn't she be on 'haven't voted' yet?

Also RC, do you have a read on me? Or am I priority? Any thoughts about this?

*Side Note

- Oddmusic was someone I was beginning to townread.... X_X At least the theory of an Odd-Taly/Odd-Metal scum team are now over.

[Taly]

@Mod

RC voted for oddmusic in 469

Even though odd is now dead, wouldn't she be on 'haven't voted' yet?

Also RC, do you have a read on me? Or am I priority? Any thoughts about this?

*Side Note

- Oddmusic was someone I was beginning to townread.... X_X At least the theory of an Odd-Taly/Odd-Metal scum team are now over.

nevermind, Mod, you changed it X_X

[Taly]

I've spent too long on Taly. I need to do some reads on other players.

I think all of us should change our focus a little. (Even me)

Odd was town, and it seemed like quite a few people(either town or scum) suspected that he was mafia.

(I'm still a bit salty over this.)

As far as your post talking about my "book," I can see some misunderstandings, but I don't think that is priority for either of us.

I kind of want a further explanation as to why pisskop voted Odd like that. I know Elyse sort of prompted it, but I don't know why he went there.

Also, Aquanim 517 - I know it is difficult, but can you please tell me your thoughts on this?

Spoiler: Taly's Mourning for Odd

***

Taly grabs a tissue from RC, he begins to cry and perpetually blow his nose in it. He then hands it back to RC but RC slaps him across the face. He then throws it at Aqua, whereas Aqua steps back in utter disgust.

Taly then takes off his glove and starts smacking mykonian in the face with it.***

[Taly]

Okay.

Whoever we're lynching today, I'm going to be really annoyed if the day ends before we get more out of eektor, Boonskies, TheDudeAbides, and some more recent thoughts out of InsidiousLemons and MetalCyanide.

This past night has demonstrated to me that some lulzwagon and/or lulzhammer might happen while I'm asleep and I intend to head that off now.

Who do you think is the best lynch so far?
What are your town and scum reads?

I also don't like how several people aren't responding either. If I don't get a good response from a few people(ones that are inactive, and/or people I'm trying to get answers from) I'm going to start making lists of questions.

*Noob Question* What's a policy lynch?

Also, 522 - RC, are you making fun of pisskop?

[Taly]

525 and 526

Eh, a bit of both... Question was mostly about oddmusic, though.

I feel like quite a few cases in this game so far is bad, sorry if I have been contributing to your migraine. XP

I will indeed slap Mykonian in the face. However, I think you have a point. I'm not having a good gut feeling about Boonskies slot. I also really dislike how even when your vote was to prompt him to speak, he didn't say anything except "sure sometime". This bugs me to no end when people do this, it's like saying:

"HAHAHAHA!!! I'll tell you, but I won't. Good luck finding out your own crap."

Very unhelpful and aggravating.

Though, we don't have enough from them yet, and I don't want to pull off on my mykonian vote until I have better reasoning for suspecting someone else.

I also REALLY want to see Elyse's reaction to Odd being town before she makes a book trying to rebuttal my rebuttal. Her case DOES have merit, but if she hasn't seen anything else worthy to talk about in this game, I really don't bother trying to defend myself. I'm still on the chopping block with the most votes and I'm pretty sure it may go that way because nobody else is giving much attention(or information....) other than unvoting. (which is all mostly people can do.)

Also, I can only assume that I am in your townpile due to your reactions to Elyse and Mykonian - in speaking of them. Just my thoughts concerning that.

I am getting frustrated with some people in this game too though..... Sigh.

[Taly]

that's curious eektor.

5 posts ago you really disliked taly's posting. And your aqua read was solely based on him being a buddy of odd.

you seem confused.

Its more like 50 posts rather than 5, and he explained his reasoning.

Maybe you're confused.

You are aware I'm mostly laughing at you?

And I to you.

taly claim an actual role or get lynched

I am a Town Role-Blocker, I've said it before and I'm repeating it now. I don't know how much more confirmation people need from me. If you don't believe me, then you can go to help mislynch me - I'm in no better position than what I was 10 pages ago, only now the circumstances have changed quite a bit.

Alternatively, you can waste that second bullet of yours and when I flip town it may give people extra incentive to get you to answer questions instead of making statements.

Odd's flip was not in Taly's favor
or RC, ftm

FINALLY, someone acknowledges my position. You get a cupcake pisskop.

Just because I scumread someone doesn't mean I want them dayvigged out of nowhere without a claim.

RC is making it blatant that she would rather have justifiable reasons to lynch someone instead of heavily pushing on trying to get their scum reads lunched.

Spoiler: *COUGH COUGH*

mykonian and Elyse

I find this townie because she is rational enough

Spoiler: LIKE....

Aqua, Tool, and Eektor

to realize that her scum reads aren't always indicative of what they seem to be.

To expand on this myself, I have questioned everyone on either being town or scum, (even Elyse and Mykonian, who I have kind of gunned after, since they kind of did similar to me) >>> I do think ruling anyone out at this point for any alignment would still be too early... Even though I think most of us are getting a much clearer idea on who is really who. I still have doubts.

I was hospitalized for food poisoning last night...I'll be back tomorrow.

Omg, I hope you feel better. Food poisoning is not a fun thing.

Which is why there's a different reason to make them day 1. Either you just like to, or it's your crutch to get yourself talking about the game. IE, it's a habit or it's a scumtell.

Both of these reasons I think are an excuse to hide behind

"I'm not giving that much valuable info! "

and

"I don't want to get lynched! Let's just vote the most likely person! And the person I don't want in here!"

Just some of my thoughts.

[Taly]

elyse, get better. I need someone to talk to. And tool is never here at the same time.

Why not talk to anyone else? You seem like you're reserving your reactions specifically for people who would agree with your thoughts...

[Taly]

yes, those are the most dangerous.

Well, keeping your "presumably dangerous" ideas and opinions is why you have a vote against you currently. (Not trying to sound snappy or sarcastic) I'd like to hear some of your thinking, it could at least strike helpful conversation for the town.

[Taly]

It's not the ideas that are dangerous, it's the people.

I'm the only one biting you with a vote and have defended and said my current read on you(ambivalence but still a bit scummy), and that's to hear your thoughts. If anything, I'm one of the most dangerous people to you here and I'm the one asking you. Who do you think is volatile? (Or not someone you'd like to speak to?)

I'd be totally fine if you said me, but anyone else?

[Taly]

I'm here right now, mykonian.

@Taly -- Please reconcile these two statements:

I am a Town Role-Blocker

you can waste that second bullet of yours and when I flip town it may give people extra incentive to get you to answer questions instead of making statements.

Because the first statement says "I have the power to prevent you from killing me" and the second says "if you try to kill me tonight, you will succeed."

1)

Town RB cannot use their abilities in day phase

.... I thought that was common knowledge, unless I'm sadly mistaken. Then I could have saved Odd from death...

2) That second statement was to test pisskop into seeing if he was a town vig, or a scum day-shooter.

IF he took me up on my prompt, and shot me

1) That would give people incentive to question and get him to answer and give info.
2) That would give everyone incentive to policy lynch him(Especially if he shot me and it showed I was town right there in my death)
3) He would no longer have the ability to shoot anyone else, so he wouldn't be able to be prompted to shoot anyone else again.
4) It would have brought the idea that he was a mafia day-shooter, to be more likely.

IF he DIDN'T shoot me

1) It proves he is most likely being truthful about his responses.
2) It also proves that he IS in fact a Town PR.
3) It also keeps me alive and able to have this lovely conversation we are having together, tool. <3
4) He exposes himself with vulnerability by not shooting and responding simultaneously, which seems like a genuine town trait.

Basically, that was a hardcore/truthful way of scum/town hunting.

Since he didn't even

BOTHER REPLYING

, and me saying this, it kind of defeats the purpose. I'm going to assume he already read this statement and give him a slight null town read for possible honesty.... And that I don't have anything else on him.

583

Well, I don't think you get it. You can't avoid everyone who isn't agreeing with you, and trying only shows that you are contriving your motives for like-minded people. (Basically, you're running to the people you feel safest with, which could be buddying as you said, or even interpreted as a scum partnership)

Honestly, I don't think you're scum that much(though my read still stands), but you're the only scum I'm willing to push at this point. I also don't get why you believe Lemons is dangerous, he's on the wagon voting against me as well.

Other than your sketchy responses, avoidant/snippy behavior, and questionable logic, (which I wonder if this is alignment indicative...) - I don't see much other reason but to unvote you provided you actually say something so the rest of us can digest new information other than waiting for your little mislynch to carry out, and for me to be shown that I am town.

Otherwise, only thing I worry and suspect you for is your motives and partnership with Elyse, and whoever you think is "safe." You might want to reconsider your approach in this game at all if you find yourself with either:

A)

Little to say

B)

Waiting for someone to speak with

C)

Not finding anything you're willing to say

D)

Any, or all of the above.

Think about it for a moment.

Preview-Edit

- What do you want to ask, pisskop?

[Taly]

Just read pisskops reads question: Will make a list in a bit

[Taly]

But, Taly, given the new circumstance, could you please describe any reads that are different and why? Nothing elaborate, but enough that I could walk through the read.

Townies

(I like your posts, or at least the gut feeling I get from you... You're still on my radar.)

Aquanim:

Moderate-Strong Read

RC:

Slight-Moderate Read

TDA:

Slight Read

eektor:

Very Slight Read

pisskop:

Slight Read/*

Can be on

Nulls/Neutrals

list

Neutrals

(AKA - You're on my radar.)

Boonskies:

Moderate Read/*

Can be on

Slight Scum List

InsidiousLemons:

Slight-Moderate Read/*

Can be on

Very Slight Scum List

toolenduso:

Slight-Moderate Read

Metalcyanide:

Very Slight Read/*

Can be on

Slight Town List

Scummies

(I'm onto you right now. )

mykonian:

Slight-Moderate Read

Elyse:

Slight Read

[Taly]

590 and 592
Oh... didn't see that part, oops, and yeah... I know pisskop could kill 2 people, why did I say he would have wasted his second if he used it on me? (Unknowing that he couldn't use it again in this day phase.)

591

Oh, well I didn't think you'd respond to that if it wasn't immediate.... There's a few things you haven't responded yet and that was my question to seeing what your reads are. (Sorry if I missed it.)

1)

I think it's possible I won't be the lynch, not that I don't think I won't get mislynched near the end of this day though. If people don't vote/unvote in my favor that is.

A)

It's not like people are still going up on my wagon, nor are people still scumreading me from what I've seen.

B)

I've given all the reasons in the world as to why I'm a townie, I can only offer and say/do so much. It's you guys' choice to go on the probability of mislynching me or not, not mine.

2)

I thought your answer to my previous book would have helped.... Now seeing a bit more info. on your possible role, and you asking questions, I'm not entirely sure about you being a mafia day shooter... Though I'm not scum reading you yet. I've also said my current reads and reasons why I still have my vote up. And did elaborate that I did have doubts on some reads.

As for anything else, I thought pushing mykonian would result in getting actual info., but it's starting to look to me that we are calling each other scum based off the fact we have completely different approaches to this game. Or it seems to me that is, but I still have my vote up, and I still think he is a possibility.

[Taly]

Taly a few questions about your new reads:
Why did RC move from slight scum read to slight-moderate read?
Why is IL now a null read instead of the town read you gave?

1)

I'm pretty sure I've said/implied this somewhere before... But I will say I am still not very fond of RCs inconsistencies, that said, she has given some genuine thoughts so far(about my post about ranting over the logistics in the game, and her mini rant on odds death). I've said being genuine is a town trait, I also want to keep hearing more of RCs thoughts, I think she can say something that is helpful. (This is partially gut feeling, though) Even though her day-cop claim was a bit weird, I would believe her claim. (Since pisskops claim was correct, and my claim

IS

correct.) I think she was genuine there, especially after getting annoyed over Odds death.

Plus, with Odds death - I just lost my second strongest town read. Everyone else being slight at this point is liable to change the most.

2)

I have not really seen much of him, and his 493 rubbed me a little wrong. I will excuse his absence by him being pretty busy, but if he still is on a wagon to lynch me, and he still says he isn't like my posts, I would at least have hoped he would have said something about it by now.

[Taly]

597

That meant that currently, I thought of you as slightly town but you could lean towards neutral - reads are a VERY fluid aspect in this game, and my reads are usually posted in my thought, gut feelings, and reasonings IN THE MOMENT. They're very likely to change, and even in a short amount of time given responses and reflection or lack thereof.

Same thing for metal, I can see him being thrown back into the townpile easily.

598

I mean, the question itself put you onto the neutral list to me - Otherwise, I liked how you were honest and proved your claim was true, which gave you town points from me. Your assessment in trying to find my position indicates to me that you're either trying to get useful information to understand someone, and/or scum/town hunting. Both seem like town motivation to me specifically since you have valid reasons for questioning me.

Also, it was a little dumb to outright say my response to you was for a reaction. Other than just uncertainty and doubt on my own part, I don't see much concrete reason to say you are a scum role. However, I am still curious:

What are the odds (to you) that I am going to be lynched today? Do you think things can go differently? And, what are your reads on me? You haven't given direct answers other than to suggest you're townreading me. And if that is the case, what are your thoughts on the votes/case against me?

^^ These are just a few questions I am uncertain about on your side, I think answering or acknowledging them will help give me a better idea of seeing your position. Mine is mostly ambiguity, seeing the ocean of possibilities, and gut feelings - which aren't very alignment indicative.

[Taly]

I don't either thing is happening here. I think Taly thought she was getting lynched and got her thoughts down. If you're a new player, you're town, and you don't want to get lynched, giving your thoughts is something that you will try. So is soft-claiming a pr. I'm reading Tally as panicking town, trying to avoid being lynched.

I'd be interested to know how you distinguish Taly's focus on himself from the fact that the main focus of the thread at large is, in fact, on Taly.

Well, according to Taly, he thinks two scum is pushing hard to lynch him as a town pr. If Taly flips town, those two people should be getting a whole lot of scrutiny, something scum wouldn't want.

These are the people,

who know what is happening.

@TDA

I wouldn't call myself as panicky, more like

"I'm done with peoples crap here,"

and therefore, I've lost reason to appear with much image-focused posts, and more about saying what I truly think is going on here.

hes using 2 methods of ranking people, and its weirding me

You said nothing elaborate, what do you want?

I see only 4 in there, but the most important part is the scummies (i'm onto you) section which seems to be his top 2.

I already stated what the

"can be on other list"

means.

(603)

If people(this applying to pisskop as well) still aren't sure, then they can just ask.

Back onto the points I quoted original from Aqua and eektor.

**(Mykonian involved)**

1)

I know right? For the past 350 posts prior to Odds death, it was mostly just

"I think Taly should be lynched, hes totes noobscum, look at this dumb contradiction."

2)

EVEN THOUGH people have given me townreads now, please look back at the vote count.

(Everyone who is questioning me at this point)

See? I'm still most likely going to be lynched by D1 despite whatever truth I say in my words. I don't think Mykonian can put it up against me that I am being self-centered. I probably am, but it shouldn't be a scumtell considering that

I'M STILL at the highest votes, and people are STILL asking questions to ME.

Should I vote to lynch myself, then?

Now onto speaking over eektor's quote.

1)

This is why, I've bargained my survival in this game. I am town, and everyone who still says I'm town, probably knows I'm town at this point. I genuinely still think Elyse and Mykonian are likely scum, which stems from the fact that they are still pushing for my lynch on a case very early in this game.

2)

The idea that Mykonian is saying that I'm being self centered, (after all, he has his vote on me), and the fact that he is saying he isn't willing to discuss tells me this:

> People are holding back information so they could wait it out and basically leave me to be lynched at this point. Without valid discussion continuing why. (Mykonian specifically) - This tells me that people(Mykonian) is fine with mislynching for the fact that I am most likely to be lynched.

If I'm mislynched, and it shows that I'm town(which it will), is the ultimate confirmation that everything I've said so far in this game is the truth, and specifically show my reasons suspecting mykonian and elyse to be scum are that much more valid.

Because you know, it'd help the town, and....

It's not like me being alive in this game gives me credibility to others anymore.

You know, since the more people are hearing from me, the less they see me as town. -____-****

I've just lost reason to reply to some things in this game that I've been replying to this entire game. Which are things that a lot of my posts have been about a lot throughout this game.

With that said, I only have one thing to say right now.

@Metalcyanide

I think eliminating those who are lurking is a lot easier and safer than those who have been most active. Aqua is right, my post count itself shouldn't have that much influence on my alignment. At least people you see post a lot are people you're most getting information from, and those you've seen the MOST of. (So you have definitive thoughts on their alignment, as opposed to lurkers who really have not contributed that much.)

[Taly]

So like, on the best case scenario, metalcyanide is a town who is barely reading the thread and would merit a policy.

Given the scum credentials mentioned above I don't see why this hasn't happened already.

@Elyse sometimes town PRs get pissed when they get suspected and become uncooperative. I've done it before.

Emotional intelligence 101, RC gets a cupcake. I'm wasting my damn time trying to reply to those who are just going to give the same kind of rebuttal despite what I say or do.


However, there are 2 things I want to mention about Elyses posts.

1) There is a Scum Role-Blocker? I thought if Town RB couldn't use abilities until night-phase.... What could scum RB do? O_o

2)

If being a martyr is what helps everyone seen that I'm truly making an effort to help the town, and validate everything people have discredited from me

- then yes, I will be a martyr.

Like COME ON - DO I LOOK LIKE I AM IN ANY BETTER POSITION THAN YOU PEOPLE?

@TDA
Yeah, my scumhunting right now may seem very crazy and not so calculated in this sense it was before - I'm just making my thoughts about everything known before I am mislynched. - It is to help the town in the long run... hopefully.

I mean, I think people are ignoring some helpful things Aqua is point out:
Scum is in a very good position right now, even if I was scum.

Spoiler: ...

Which I'm NOT.

Like, people are still pushing for lynches over things created at the beginning of D1, in general - not many of us are bringing our fellow players together to see much other than "who should be lynched."

I think scum right now are people who are pushing to lynch opportunistically, and the people who aren't even saying anything.

Though, I do see why people think they'd get more info from my lynch. It'd definitely confirm a lot. However, I'm still not sacrificing myself because I am quite certain in some of my views in this game... and plus, sacrificing myself is what scum wants. Because they know Town will those a PR with my mislynch.

Also IL, hope you get better! :O

[Taly]

Due to the Elyse VS Taly snatch-weave brawls, I think re-directing our focus off of one another is pretty good - she said it herself in 694, our stances DO in fact speak for themselves.

What is UtE and AtE? ._____.

With this said:

I mean, I don't mind where this is going, >> but we all know he's just bad town after all. <<
...

OK, who are you to just say for EVERYONE else that Metal is just bad town? Do you know that he is town? Plus, if you really were town, why would you pass up the idea that he is just bad town and not consider him scum? Also, if he IS bad town - why would lynching him be any different than lynching scum - if he is that much of a problem it seems?

This is a really sketchy comment, I don't know if mykonian is avoiding reasons to go after Metal(inadvertently buddying), or if mykonian is just being dismissive on him since he isn't getting his way with me.

That's fine. So since you are the only one here right now do you believe my claim? If I am the lynch, and assuming that you are town, after I flip town who do you look at?

My vote is running in an 8 formation, and you and mykonian are the circles.

I'm back to reading Taly as scum thanks to Elyse's long post on her. Some stuff got pointed out that I hadn't noticed.

Then maybe you'd want to reassess that idea because I've made just as many valid points as she has. (In a sense)

Taly and I have had very little interaction this game and has been either a null read or weak scum read. At the time of the top 4 he was weak scum at the time of that post null. Even in the top 4 list I said I wasn;t really interested in him to much.

How about we change this.

UNVOTE: mykonian <<< Since this currently isn't going much anywhere.
VOTE: Metalcyanide

1)

Since you've said that lynching me is more alignment reasons than actually getting information - Can you elaborate on this?

I personally think the idea of lynching me is solely based on getting information, plus - you haven't given us a recent update on why you think this. Other than agreeing with Elyses current post regarding the topic and not really saying much about what I have said.

2)

Who else is in your top 4 scum list, and why? Who do you most want to pursue?

3)

Why do you think IL is probably town right now?

He hasn't been very active the past few days, or said much info. other than a big readslist before Odds death.

[Taly]

741

This post is giving me brain damage.

In #31, he more or less tells Elyse he might be persuaded to vote for Aqua if she can make a case. Scum explanation: Either he's having a hard time coming up with reasons to scumread people or he's afraid to do the dirty work himself, so he approaches another player about it. Town explanation: He's trying to keep an open mind about which players might be scum. The problem with that is that he's trusting another player, Elyse, who he should have no reason to trust.

....

Because I wanted to see why Elyse thought it was scummy? And we were just getting out of RVS? Why are you even talking about a page 2 post, when it is page 32? Are you even serious?

-In many posts throughout his ISO, Taly provides long, detailed explanations of what he's doing and why he's doing it. However, he misses out on things other players are doing in the game like pisskop saying he's not able to take his second shot today and thinks that other players are talking about him when they clearly aren't. Scum explanation: Taly is very concerned with the way he looks and is trying as hard as he can to convince people he's town. Town explanation: Personality/playstyle.

Personality??? .________.

Honestly, Scum and Town motivation explanation in this can go hand in hand..... Not sure what your point is here.

-In #239, we learn that Taly partially hid his reasons for unvoting mykonian earlier in the game. Scum explanation: Taly didn't want to look bad, so he left out the part of his reasoning that made him look bad. Town explanation: Taly's given explanation (here) is that he was rattled by Elyse's pressure and was afraid of making himself look bad. Which is possible for a townie to do, but is really more indicative of scum IMO.

Meh, I'd go with the pressure thing - and the fact that I still wasn't trusting mykonian at all since he literally took no part in the conversation after Elyse butted in.

-In #259, posts a readslist where his only scumread is RC, who he lists as slightly leaning scum. Not much reasoning is given as to why this is. Scum explanation: He's having trouble faking scumreads. Town explanation: He's having trouble developing reads.

When I say I don't like something, it is more indicative as to me thinking they're scum because of it....

And yeah, apparently noobies can now possibly fake scumreads. I hear it's a thing, and like - especially according to this guy name toolenduso, who thinks Taly is faking things because he obviously doesn't have things to get across to people that are WORTH TELLING THE TRUTH FOR.

-In #288, he uses another player as his reasoning for scumreading mykonian again. Later he re-votes mykonian. Scum explanation: Again, having a hard time faking reads. Town explanation: OddMusic's words genuinely swayed him.

OK, WHAT? I already said that I had my own reasons for voting and suspecting mykonian. WHY IS ODD INVOLVED? All I said, was he genuinely brought information to my attention, and it made me consider my stance. That's ALL.

Don't misrepresent and add things to what I'm saying because you have others in your favor.

@Taly



In post 694, Elyse wrote:
A scum RBer can stop town PRs. Scum RBers are in fact more common than town RBers since most mods favor jailkeepers. I mean let's say you genuinely didn't know that...is it that hard to decipher? I feel like you're asking easy questions to make yourself look like newbtown when thinking about it for like a second will give you an answer.

I'm fine with dropping our walls because I think they speak for themselves. However, I do want you to address your claim that I provoked the kill on oddmusic and the scum motivation in posting my scumread of him after he was shot.

This post made me barf in my mouth a little, Elyse. We should be focusing on other things.

Das it.

K.

>>>> It's just that pisskop said that you asked for his opinion, and I thought you were influencing him on his decision to kill odd.... Since he really didn't have a claim as to why, specifically.

I wondered if he did that just to ensure my D1 mislynch. >_> Since, he did say that was likely to happen.

[Taly]

Are you accusing us of being buddies, Ellie and I?
Are you accusing Tool of purposely misrepping you?

I didn't even say that you and Ellie were buddies... All I said, was that I thought that Elyse had influence in the conversation over you voting to kill odd.. Nothing else.

Am I saying tool is misrepping me? Yes. Am I saying that he is purposely doing this? No. I'm just saying that he is leading to conclusions about what I'm meaning over things that are out of context, already been explained, and arbitrary reasons.

See that's my problem, Taly. If you actually carefully read the interaction between pisskop and I, you would see I refused to explain my read on odd until he answered my question first, so I had absolutely no influence on the kill or scum motivation to post my scumread on him after he was dead.

Eh.... I may have overlooked that, but I still wasn't sure why pisskop went on to kill odd in that conversation. It just seemed like he was finding a reason to do a kill, so we could see a flip on a wagon when it wasn't completely necessary at the time.

[Taly]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

**

This question can apply to anyone else in this game

, I'm just directing it at Aqua for arbitrary reasons and - getting insight on the idea of my lynch today. Since he has brought this up the most, and probably the most helpful in asking this type of question.

**

[Taly]

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum?

I would start by going back and looking at the way people interacted with you and your wagon during D1, then move from there.

Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid?

Yes, as a matter of principle.

Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

I don't think answering this question before your flip helps town, and could in fact help scum. Suffice to say, I have some ideas.

Tool, I had a WHOLE other flurry of questions:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum? How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

Why are you answering only what you most likely think is the truth? That's ignoring the rest of my post and what info that it was meant to get, and the discussion that it was meant to create which is relevant entirely to the idea that I COULD BE LYNCHED fairly soon.

Plus, you've made your vote and read on me fairly obvious - this answering post is just filler.

[Taly]

Yeah! Lynching people! Ungh!

If I didn't want 2 people in this game out of here right now,

Spoiler: *hint hint*

One of them recently voted me, reference to the most recent vote chart, and the other person takes the record of my vote being on them for the longest in this game.

you'd take my vote, solely on your fluff posts, and the idea that I think town is giving scum a win invitation through the things that have happened in this game. AKA, the possibility of people like you, are scum, and waiting around to see what the town does - scratching their heads.

[Taly]

807

Well Aqua, I think everyone who isn't on my wagon at this point probably believes I'm town. (Because there has been enough times where I could have been hammered, and even now.)

I honestly believe at least half the scum team is still bussing on my wagon, and pushing for my lynch.

***1)

The initial case Elyse put on me was 25 pages ago.

2)

The wagon is still going... Even after Odds death, and now Metals wagon is up to par with mine.

3)

It was a fairly weak case, and considering the logistics that I am a noob, I am younger, and people kind of misrepped what I've said in a sense - this is an unhealthy D1 lynch choice. I won't say my age and experience as an excuse, but it definitely adds into how I've played.

4)

I've explained myself and my scum reads, and even town reads to an extent.

***5)

I really have not been that defensive and image-focused, at least... I'm not anymore. -_- I'm done with defending myself and arguing with some of these people.

6)

I've said all I can, and I'm still probably going to be lynched - and if I happen to survive to D2, I'm going to have a hell of a time trying to get back into a safe position with people.

7)

I don't know how people can say I've faked my role claim, and play... Obviously if people aren't too stupid to see it now, I'm a bit frustrated by all of this.

***8)

You know, the entire scum team can be on my wagon right now - They know I'm town. Nobody else has said much in my defense other than me trying to get people to see my side through 80% of this game. They're still on my wagon even after all other things have happened, this tells me they're taking advantage of the town. And if half the people on my wagon are town..... I'm not going to continue on this.

Oh well, this is me probably at my worst anyways.

[Taly]

Wow, somehow I totally missed the questions you asked about if you flipped town. Lemme answer those now, even though...for some reason you don't want me to? Even though you said in that post that you wanted everyone to answer?

What are you talking about? I NEVER said that I didn't want to hear what you said - It's just the answers you gave were ones people already knew about. I DID want you to answers, EVERYTHING. So I can see your visions on both sides.

Why are you answering only what you most likely think is the truth? That's ignoring the rest of my post and what info that it was meant to get, and the discussion that it was meant to create which is relevant entirely to the idea that I COULD BE LYNCHED fairly soon.

That was ALL I said to this:

In post 801, Taly wrote:
What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum?

I would start by going back and looking at the way people interacted with you and your wagon during D1, then move from there.

In post 801, Taly wrote:
Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid?

Yes, as a matter of principle.

In post 801, Taly wrote:
Who do you think would be the most likely suspect(my partner) if I flipped scum?

I don't think answering this question before your flip helps town, and could in fact help scum. Suffice to say, I have some ideas.

It had NOTHING about me not wanting to hear your answers, I just wanted to hear a FULL answer that is HELPFUL.

Wow.... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, passive-aggressive, and misleading - or all of the above at once.

[Taly]

Again, I don't think it's to town's advantage to have a bunch of people answer this question.

You don't need to repeat this.

Claims? Not sure what you mean about that.

Cases? I mean, I would look over them again to see if anything was more persuasive upon second reading (or third in some cases), but other than that -- just because a person is town doesn't make them right.

Scum reads and my reasoning, my claim on being a town PR, most of what I've said so far in this game to my defense.

Well you've evoked responses from a lot of people, so if you are town then we'd have a lot to look at. But I'm not really sure why this point matters. Are you, like, asking for feedback on your play?

It matters COMPLETELY, if it gives ANYTHING worthy to reference back at. It matters quite a bit to me because my flip on town would reveal I've been truthful entirely in this game. I'm not asking feedback in the since that I care of what you think of me - because honestly, I really could care less about that.

But the question matters because it shows just how much people have been paying attention to what I've been saying in this game...

[Taly]

...isn't you telling me that you don't care what I have to say? Because that's exactly how it looks.

I mean if it's a misunderstanding then OK, but I don't understand how you put those words together in a sentence and mean anything else.

Stop trying to find hidden meanings, I've said what I meant, and I meant what I've said. And I didn't say that I didn't want to hear you.

I just said that your answers weren't helpful. It meant nothing else.

Please define the word "bussing."

Keep in mind, I can be using some very poor term usage right now.... But what I mean by bussing?

>At least 2 people are pushing for something to happen in a very strategic but off-handed way.

Basically, I'm saying - IN THE CONTEXT OF THE POST - that some of the people on my wagon, are coordinating with one another - or they're just trying to push for a lynch where there are several factors that have played along with it indicating that it is either false, or a weak case.

[Taly]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

**

This question can apply to anyone else in this game

, I'm just directing it at Aqua for arbitrary reasons and - getting insight on the idea of my lynch today. Since he has brought this up the most, and probably the most helpful in asking this type of question.

**

I will answer this if you can tell me what is your reasoning for asking the set of questions about if you flipped scum.

It just seemed really dumb to only talk and ask about one reality of my flip if I wanted to get responses from people on their thoughts on BOTH realities of my flip.

Oh, I've said this before, and I'll repeat it again - I am a Town RB, and most of the people that aren't on my wagon, either know or think I am town, or don't suspect me as scum.

But yeah, if I were just going to ask about town - it'd take away from people replying more freely about it - It'd also be detrimental to any credibility from any discussions and thoughts the questions could have erupted from peoples responses.

Basically, it wouldn't have helped town. It'd just be a bunch of answers of me wanting validation on other peoples reads and then it'd give full range for misreps which seriously has put this this town in a rendering progress cycle in D1.

[Taly]

Uh...if you flip town, then we'll have your role confirmed. What thoughts could I possibly have about that that would sway my view on the game?

You do realize, if I flip town... That'd give other people a reason to scrutinize you, right?

Plus, it'd validate all my "genuine posts" to be actually genuine in this game. It'd shed a whole other light on what I've said as a whole, and that should at least make you re-evaluate your game.

...At least, I would think a townie would do that.

Wouldn't really matter -- what would matter is the way other people still alive reacted to your defense.

If you're town, then once you're dead your words don't have a whole lot of bearing on the game.

I feel like this comment contradicts itself.

The people who reacted to my defense - their alignment and motives - are to be questioned for my town flip.

My words DO gain validity if in a town flip, due to me stating that I am town, and why I think people on my wagon are likely scum - even despite my death in the game. It would say that I was telling the truth, and SHOULD give - at least a townie brain - incentive to go back and investigate other possible roles on who voted, and why.

So on the contrary, my words will have a lot of bearing on the game post-my death.

Then you ought to work on the way you word things.

Stop trying to find hidden meanings, I've said what I meant, and I meant what I've said.

Sorry, you might want to think about the way you perceive and represent things.

Care to name names?

I've made my case and thoughts on mykonian pretty obvious in this game. Elyse is meh, honestly.

And FYI - You're on the fence for me - in terms of me wondering you're scum or not. Ask if you didn't get the memo.

[Taly]

*Sigh*

And I've fallen into the trap of walling with a waller. I'm going to spoiler this and then close MS for the night, I think.

Lol, seriously? You honestly consider these past few posts as walls?

True. Still doesn't make you right.

Maybe not make me right in what my genuine posts said about someone, but it did in fact make them valid since they were true.

As I constantly am, yes.

Then I hope you'll make a good decision in the future then...

I agree. In fact, that's what I said.

Did not see that response in that sense - but honestly, I'll just take your word for it...

Validity, yes. Weight, no. I would look at your posts through a lens of knowing that you were town, but again, that doesn't make you correct. I have no idea why you would think that.

True, they may not hold a lot of weight - unless you were someone who actively pushed for the towns lynch, which would make those people in particular suspicious of alignment indicative reasons for their behavior. I never said being lynched would make me correct all the way around, nor even thought that... I just said it would mean I was truthful....

...And I think a major reason why people are on my wagon, is because they think I am the opposite.....

I feel like you meant something other than "roles" here, and therefore I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying.

No, I meant people would have incentive to go back and see who all could be suspect for scum due to the possibility of a mislynch, and what it can entail...

You can either blame other people for not understanding you or you can work on ways to make what you're saying easier for those people to understand. Which one would you rather rely on -- the one you can control, or the one you can't?

Alright, I guess I will start working on the ways I speak with people. But I would say the same back at you, I don't think our misunderstandings in this game have been one-sided in the least.

[Taly]

828

Fair assessment, but I am a town PR, and having this wasted in a D1 lynch would seriously hurt the town team.

[post=829]829[post]

I've already said that I used bolding, italicizing, and underlining to emphasize what I'm saying. If it gives you really that much of a pain, (and others - though I would have liked someone to have said something already) - I'll stop doing it.

I'm pretty sure quite a few people have heard what I've said in the most blunt of my defense, and my reads so far.

Also, just to clarify - I'm a male....

[Taly]

Sigh.... That link failure.

[Taly]

What I took away from the back and forth between Taly and tool:

I'm waiting....

I think Taly's town, that he is trying to play the game, and that simply based on effort and the amount of material he's put into the thread he is a dreadful day 1 lynch on principle. Lynching active players early is how towns lose.

This is why, if you - or any of my current strong townreads - all die before D3. (which has to be constantly town lose though)

This game may just end up as a Mafia win. -_-

This is either a very weak town group - other than the townies who are DYING, or a very under-handed/effective scum team that really love their current situation.

Seriously, there is no point in this as to why I'm still at L-3 as I was a damn week ago. Other than that fact that I've been of the main contributors, and people really don't see a better option.... Mostly because they haven't listened what I've been saying.

Honestly, I'm not really bothered by being lynched at this point - I'm just bothered that my mislynch is going to give the town a very bad hand in the future. I am Town RB - Whether I'm genuine or not, why the hell would a SCUM deliberately keep referencing to a town softclaim, and repeatedly make off-hand ranting comments if it weren't real? I'm not some sort of magician people, stop giving me unrealistic credit that works in your favor and actually think about what I'm saying. >_>

And if whoever wants to put up the argument as "Oh, he's just making these off-hand questions about his behavior to make it look like he is town, scummy act."

Yeah? Because I am town? And the reason why I'm about to be lynched as I were 25 pages ago tells me that people STILL want me out after everything I'm said? Wow... I know I've done some stupid plays in this game, but lynching me for the fact that I contradicted myself a week ago and people still are on my wagon? Despite the other things you could pick as scummy from others?

Scum must really see me as a threat then.... Which means I'm quite accurate in some of my assessments of people here. Otherwise, I don't know why I am in this situation. I've fought against my lynch as Aqua said, other people seem just as scummy as me right now, and most of the people that are TUNNELING me have NOT even MOVED their VOTE since they first put it on ME.

It's like their play is fully directed in lynching me at this point.... They literally have done nothing else except arguing back to me trying to CONVINCE MYSELF that I am the best lynch for D1.

Didn't want this post to turn into me rambling but sigh...

[Taly]

838 and 839

...Can't tell if I'm being made fun of, or people are sarcastically pitying me.

Either way, I'm not liking it....

Another thing - my reads have changed quite a bit since that last post, pisskop. I don't know what you're asking.

Also - I don't understand the argument of "I think I am the center of the universe"

Because if you go back to the vote count, and the conversation of MOST of the day so far, you'll see that I'm referenced quite frequently.

Sigh, my efforts right now mean so little at this point. I'm just going to fade off....

[Taly]

842

Aqua and RC are pretty much my main town reads so far. I'd need to see more of eektor, and TDA - but I've liked their posts so far.

I'm still really on the fence with you - neutral or town alignment. I have doubts about the possibility of you being either mafia or town... I do think your actions so far are town-motivated as you've clarified, which is where I see a lean of that for you.

RC - I have said my town lean for her is partially gut. Other than this, she has contributed to parts of the thread - I did like her push on you pisskop, about you shooting odd without saying much about it at the time. It tells me she is willing to sit back and find valid reasoning before trying to lynch a person. I think her aggressiveness is more of a town play, it is genuine - and it has received the type of reactions she has been looking for when she uses it. It is useful, hopefully she is town.

Aqua - I believe Aqua has said some things where people weren't paying enough attention too. Where is the conversation of the lurkers in this game to be scum? They are just as capable as being scum as the people who have posted the most in this game. He's also done some voting and much-necessary bluffing in his actions - where people haven't really taken him seriously. I think Aqua has deeper insight into this game than people have given credit for - this is partially gut feeling, and the two of our overall interaction in this game. But he is one of my strongest, just wish some people weren't so bent on lynching me, and try to find other more important things in this game.

So there are my 2 top town reads.

Just think you missed the joke. Nothing too malicious.

Oh right, sorry for being negative. I'm not in my best head today - this is not entirely due to the current situation in this game.

[Taly]

I'm sick of Taly's self-centered/woe is me/entitled approach to the game.

Elyse, please, I'm going to be polite... You are striking some nerves here. I know you want me out of this game, and I know antagonism is expected in these games but - please tone it down.

[Taly]

5. Each player is allowed one "bah!" post after they are lynched, but may not reveal any game related information after the lynch is announced.

*

People see Taly's dead body twitch

*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*

Taly springs back up to life and screams at the top of his lungs

*

Getting the last word in on my watch.

*

Everybody sees Taly manically running off into the wilderness, and disappears into the darkness

*

[Taly]

HOLY SHIT.

I pegged 2 scum!!!! AND THEY WERE BOTH ON MY ASS.

You guys did a meh job in avenging me but that's ok. ;P

Also, the PM I PMed someone in this game wasn't game related. Clearing that up. Mods investigated and found no reason to ban or restrict me.

Will leave the confidentiality of who I PMed up to the receiver.

[Taly]

Aqua - Well, I just saw that Monkey broke the confidentiality mark. Want to be friendses? ;p lol...

Tool - I know, and I have learned some things from this game that I incorporated that has helped me in other games.

You did good as a mod Monkey, but I would have liked a warning instead of immediate kill heh....

Sorry to anyone if I was a pain in this ass in this game, I realize I 1v1 quite a bit as town... It either really helps to find scum, or really doesn't...