Mini Normal 1825 - Game Over

[Chuck]

I have been waiting 14 years, 4 months, and 17 days for this moment.

Finally, it is my time to shine.

[Chuck]

VOTE: Chuck

Indicate alignment pls. Scum have already lost so let's just make this painless. Ty.

Town, but obviously I can't expect you to believe that or even pretend to believe that on Day 1. Worthless question. Maybe good for a reaction test but any scum could give an answer like this as well.

Well.. I guess I better start.. Hello everyone I'm Naomi, and I tend to play unsure of things and have a weird mind set. As town and scum I fear being lynched, which means I tend to do lots of LAMIST stuff. I never am too sure on my own thoughts but I try my best even if thats not so good. I tend to do shorter posts with a summery every so often and like to give bigger theories there own post though I'm never too sure of myself I like to at least try. I just don't feel im very good and just try to help anyway I can, weather that is drawing attention to activity or putting in read posts I wish to try my hardest.. but I'm still held back by my mindset as I struggle to not be afraid of being lynched and I know as town your not meant to as your doing nothing wrong, but I'm not very good at that at all so over compensate..

This is basically a long-winded excuse for doing scummy things in the future.

If your wondering why I'm just openily announcing this right at the start its because in my last town game it sorta came out naturally while I was sleepy in this really deep self reflective sorta conversation with another player (review My last game on the first 4 pages to see that naturally) and afterwards It helped me as I could point back to it and say; 'hey this is something I already pointed out I do, stop trying to use it as a scum tell' So.. as It kinda worked well and made others understand my thoughts sometimes I thought I'd just open with it this time.

And this is a similarly long-winded excuse for making the aforementioned excuse.

So yeah.. thats my introduction and I hope to have a good game.

Speaking of LAMIST;

the setup tells us that scum have day talk

if you missed it, so please bare that in mind over the game.

This part of the post reeks of Naomi trying to do two things:

1. Pointing out that scum have day talk, ostensibly for easy early town credit, since the unthinking townie response from someone who hasn't read the opening posts as closely might think, "Oh yeah, good point, thanks for pointing that out Naomi," and subconsciously label her as town, or at least, drop her into a town

ier

slot in their reads.

2. The bolded section is a not-too-well concealed hint that says "Hey everyone, just so it's very clear, I didn't learn that the scum have day talk from being part of a scum day talk thread; I learned it from the setup" which seems like a way to subtly reinforce her standing as town in people's heads. And the fact that she's already told us she's going to try to do that is a can of WIFOM and introducing that at the start of the game in such a fashion is nothing but scummy.

VOTE: Naomi-Tan

@Naomi - how am I supposed to interpret the fact that you'rre pre-announcing that you pre-announced this thing last game? I don't think LAMIST is a scumtell (it's NAI) and I find it weird that you'd be so on edge about this. Again conveniently explained that you're like this as both town AND scum but that's what scum would say too.

What's the reason you told us this?

Exactly my thoughts. Town points for rb.

VOTE: Naomi-Tan

Yes.

Nah get on my Chuck-wagon, Chuck-wagon is more fun!

Go for it if it'll help you determine my alignment, but you've already hit the nail on the head with Naomi.

Holy shit Chuck must be the newest old player ever witnessed.

Heh. It's a rare sighting of a rustbucket in its natural habitat. I have had a few accounts over the years but for the most part haven't played too many games. I figured it was time to shake the dust off this one because I never really used it.

Rb u seem shiat so no
Naomi u are one kawaii girl
VOTE: Ryan
Meanie

Why are you voting here when Naomi-Tan has already done things worthy of a serious vote? You have been around the site at least a few years, so I would expect you to at the very least comment on Naomi in some way other than saying she is kawaii. Choosing to not pay attention to her post in favor of making a (random?) vote on Ryan, who is voting for Naomi, could be a chainsaw attack. If she flips scum I expect you might be as well.

Chuck seems so cool omg
Chuck wanna be my senpai?

Why are you goofing off so much so early? And what sticks out to you about me that seems cool?

VOTE: Ryan

gameplay is good at the game, we're sheeping her now.

How do you know he's good at the game, if you haven't even got his gender right?

Don't worry, I have the charisma and ability to make the Ryan wagon strong. You'll still get your mislynch today

Do you think gameplay is scum?

O really?
Whoever finds more scum this game is better
You'll get rekt bud

Cute. I already found one scum and one town. What about you?

Mental note to see if rb follows up on this.

Thinking is gross. I've compartmentalized my thought and reason into a purely intuitive and automatic process that allows for the most efficient finding and exposing of scum.

Okay, your initial charm and pro-town-ness is losing it's luster rapidly.

RyanK, what's your thought on the exchanges between gameplay and me?

Very scummy.

Which of them seems scummy? Both? Just one?

This brief answer spreads around suspicion without spreading around reasoning, which has a net pro-scum benefit.

As strange as it sounds I actually like rb lol
I don't think newbscum would engage in such convo like that

I am thinking the same thing. What do you think of his vote on you later on page 2?



I will have to catch up more later. This game took off a little faster than I thought it would.

[Chuck]

If anyone has the urge to be pestered and annoyed by me in the next 15 minutes speak now or forever hold your peace until I wake up tomorrow.

Gameplay really wants to look relaxed and jovial with his banter but he's not relaxed and jovial. I told people to sheep me, but I didn't try to cut down anyone's input. Gameplay is trying to cut down my input very early, where he can see that I'm probably going to be a very active player and also likely to be townread and hard to lynch because I've got sass and know how to argue a point. He's trying to discredit me as early as RVS, as opposed to just being joking and jovial like town normally do in RVS.

Town read on rb increases.

I'm like those diet pill Google ads that say, "DOCTORS HATE HIM!!!" except I'm a mafia player and instead of doctors it's the scum that hate me.

LOL

So guys if Rb isn't NK'd early, He's scum.

This post pings my scumdar all sorts of ways.

It's spreading suspicion about someone who seems extremely town, based entirely upon something that only scum control.

Ok, I'll try this sheeping thing... see what happens

UNVOTE: Comparing realities
VOTE: Gameplay506

Really a serious vote though, gameplays responses so far seem seriously off. And to my own surprise, I'm starting to like rb's style a lot more.

Don't particularly like this post either. It seems to put the responsibility for her vote on rb, instead of just voting gameplay and saying his responses seem off. Also, Cass makes a point of saying she likes rb's style, after he's just said scum hate him. I mean there's a lot to like about his play style, true, but the timing of this declaration by Cass just felt noteworthy.

Not super scummy for either of those things, but let's see if Cass follows up with more of her own thoughts and joins in the conversation more.

@Chuck: Go and Shine already! You can't hold us in suspense any longer!

I am a peacock, you gotta let me fly!



I like golden009's vote on Naomi.

also tfw the two oldest accounts in this game have zero finished games combined

No I finished some games, just not on this account.

...
Speaking of LAMIST; the setup tells us that scum have day talk if you missed it, so please bare that in mind over the game.

Naomi-Tan, how did you know scum has day talk?
VOTE: Naomi-Tan

Fos:

gameplay506

This post alone makes RyanK probably town.

So are we at 5 Gameplay votes?

Trying to keep track of votes so there is no quick-hammer on a wagon created in the heat of the moment, is pro-town.


Pitoli's 98 and 100 seem pretty town.

So guys if Rb isn't NK'd early, He's scum.

VOTE: RyanK

That red and black pic of you is scummy

This is a bad entrance. Is this RVS or did you just ignore the last few pages?

VOTE: Martha Zolanski

I'm not sure I like rb yet, so I'll wait before I sheep. I can see his points on gameplay though so I don't hate this wagon.

It was an RVS jeez.

And I don't need to do a 500 words introduction for saying I am a mafia player and I play games

This is a bad defense. The tone of this post feels very scummy.


Pitoli's posts 105, 106, and 108 all seem pretty town, too.


Naomi's voting and then unvoting Cass is an empty gesture which shows that Naomi will do anything to satisfy someone else's demands/requests/wishes, which is a scum trait. It does absolutely nothing, affects the game in no way at all, and is completely useless except to allow Naomi to sidestep the point of Cass's desire. She then says "I'm still forming reads, you know?" which a) is an excuse not have already done something

she just did in order to please Cass

, and b) is colloquially worded in order to build rapport with Cass.

Also this whole "please don't think I'm scummy for doing scummy things" attitude on top of the going out of her way to excuse her behaviors, and immediately posting a convenient excuse for anything she does which is seen as scummy...

... is

completely out of character

for a player who has been around this site four entire years (Naomi joined in 2012).

Look:

Townies

don't have to apologize for things they do, because they know their alignment is town and their motivations are pure.

Scum

are the ones who feel naturally apologetic, because they know they're the ones killing us off, and they're trying to get in front of people suspecting them by being less abrasive.


More votes are needed on Naomi. She's scum.


PR edit: I'm on!

[Chuck]

Naomi feels town.

Also, Guys please call me Martha. I am the mother of Roman and also the Godmother of our Queen Nicki.

Lol no.

[Chuck]

Naomi don't make me read those walls all game ffs

This is noted. I will similarly try to chop my posts down. I'm just in catchup mode right now.

[Chuck]

I'm not very satisfied by her quoting from her initial post, no. It still feels like she's setting up a get-out-of-jail-free card to escape suspicion if she does some anti-town things.

This post is correct, and golden009 feels town as well, not just from this post but from multiple others before this.

[Chuck]

Chuck is obvs reading the posts i made before. Like hello, You're like reading from 15th Century of the pages.

And post 70 made by me is a joke.

Trying to make it seem like someone's old posts aren't worth reading is the exact same as saying that scumhunting is worthless and that we should all be ignorant and vote random people based on the way the wind is blowing.

The fact that you're saying this about

your own

posts is even worse.

[Chuck]

...
Speaking of LAMIST; the setup tells us that scum have day talk if you missed it, so please bare that in mind over the game.

Naomi-Tan, how did you know scum has day talk?
VOTE: Naomi-Tan

Fos:

gameplay506

This post alone makes RyanK probably town.

O___O I don't see it.

Scum wouldn't ask how someone knew they had day talk. They would read all the mod's posts, and find out for themselves.

This question much more likely comes from a townie who is trying to catch scum slipping.

There's always the question of WIFOM, but I'm not seeing RyanK playing at that level for the rest of his posts, so putting him as probtown is a very safe assumption.

Additionally:
I don't see how you don't see that.

[Chuck]

Prepare for a whole lot of post volume from me.

You may as well not complain about it, because I won't be listening.

[Chuck]

I just thought it strange that you expected me to scum read you because for me to formulate a read on you I would have to be town. As scum, it really wouldn't matter. So it feels like you know I'm town and you shouldn't because I haven't done anything.

Thank you.



We should all be lynching Naomi-Tan.

[Chuck]

Do

me

a favor and eat some rope.

[Chuck]

Prod dodge. I'll be able to post more this weekend.

[Chuck]

Chuck

, who are you most suspicious of beside Naomi? I keep getting these back and forth reads on you and I can't tell where I'm at. You say one thing that makes me think you're town and then another that's just scummy. I can't figure you out and the overall vibe I'm getting is just scummy. Help me out here, what are your reads?

As I read through the last half of the thread, you'll get more of my thoughts about everyone. Naomi was the only one worth voting at that point though.

[Chuck]

Also I think it's a pretty bad summary of Naomi's play to say she's focussed on that one thing. She's contributing to the game but she responds to people who are asking her questions or who are voting her.

Feels like she's being misrepped atm. Not joining this wagon.

If Naomi flips scum, this defense post bumps rb a few spots down the reads list.

[Chuck]

This is insane. I'm going to stop trying to catch up and respond to everything and just read the whole thing in one go, and post my general thoughts.

[Chuck]

@gameplay506

I've never been good with the town/scum motivation hunting but I am pretty sure there is something lacking here
Like what does your town read on rb have to do with you voting me?
I can't make the connection

If rb is Town, his vote is marginally more likely to be on a Mafia player than if he were Mafia. Also, if rb is Town then all other players are marginally more likely to be Mafia (from 3/12 to 3/11).

This kind of post is worthless.

[Chuck]

Saru, what is your past experience with Dierfire?

[Chuck]

I've decided that Chuck's confidence is in fact sickening, this contradicts my earlier statement that he was town for those following my posts closely. We have to purge lurkers in this game btw

My level of confidence is for a very good reason.

My "lurking" is also for a very good (RL) reason. You'll see more activity later on. And this is my fourth promise of that, since you seem to be counting.

Regardless: Lurker hunting is never a good response to a very active day phase. That's Mafia Playing 101.

frankly unacceptable lynches: gameplay, ryan, martha, rb
meh lynches: cass, saru, dierfire, golden009, pitoli
good shit lynches: bbt, chuck, glitch

This is basically an activity list

While you are correct; to be frank, that's not necessarily a bad way to look at things in some cases. I contend that this is not one of those cases.

This level of activity without some form of town consensus on a lynch so far, generally means that scum are among the more active players in the game.

I'm more interested in the rapid wagon development and fizzling going on, the timing and people on the wagons, than the words being said.

[Chuck]

I'm not a fan of the Dierfire wagon. He has made some comments which appear very townie.

However, Saru seems to think he is Town for other reasons, and I would like to know them.

[Chuck]

Oh, that's right. Expedience replaced Naomi-Tan.

That completely explains his hypersensitivity to my slot. Of course he would want to lynch his biggest detractor, especially given the rest of towns focus on rb and gameplay.

[Chuck]

Oh nvm. For some reason my brain thought 908 was Chuck when I was quoting it.

But still curious - basically Chuck who of the active players bothers you the most?

Martha seems scummy.

rb seems very town.

gameplay does as well.

Ryan I don't really have much of an opinion on. Yet.

[Chuck]

And the only way to know if someone is town or scum is when some flips.

Ridiculously obvious things like this are usually posted by scum trying to be seen as a) helpful, and b) logical.

I would cry zero tears if RyanK was lynched.

Greatly prefer Expedience, however.

His character assassination of me during my absence, when I was an easy target.
Trying to lynch lurkers instead of focusing on what was actually happening in the game.

Two strikes. Being the replacement for Naomi-Tan is strike three.

Expedience is scum.

Everyone should just trust me on this.
Any other lynch today would be silly.

[Chuck]

I'm game for a RyanK lynch, but you guys, seriously. Expedience.

If I'm dead tomorrow, lynch that slot.

[Chuck]

Checking through vote counts, I find that:

Gameplay has been voting for RyanK literally the entire game.

Cass, RyanK, and Martha Zolanski have all been on every one of the three major (5+ votes) wagons that were not on themselves.
Of the three, Cass is the only one who has not been wagoned.

Vote Count 1.17 is of particular note because there are no real good wagons. Scum can probably be found there later.

rb has voted 5 different people but keeps switching when the wagons get large. This is highly consistent with townie behavior gauging reactions and pushing in many directions. Find the person who tries to suck up to rb the most and they are probably scum.

Expedience is also hopping around (Naomi-Tan only ever voted Martha Zolanski) but unlike rb, he's not going from big wagon to big wagon. He's going from vanity wagon to vanity wagon, which is consistent with scum behavior who are afraid to be on a townie lynch when it goes through.

ISO Accountant and see these things for yourself. I could keep looking for patterns, but I'm out of time tonight.

Somebody else should go find all the stuff I missed.


P-edit: Agree that looks like that from a certain POV, but it's NNAI however, as scum can also be policy lynched, and in fact, that's what policy lynches attempt to eliminate. Not bad townies, scum hiding behind the guise of being a bad townie. That's why it's a "policy" lynch.

[Chuck]

Martha, vote Expedience. Pretty please. You keep saying he's scum but still you're voting RyanK.

[Chuck]

I have made my thoughts known on plenty of other players. Saying I'm only tunneling on Expedience is painting a picture that doesn't exist.

rb, why do you think Expedience is town? And what do you think of points for why he is scum? You haven't addressed anything you've just said you think I'm "town but wrong" which is a very convenient cop out response.

[Chuck]

Martha, vote Expedience. Pretty please. You keep saying he's scum but still you're voting RyanK.

Well then what are youe thoughts on ryan?

I think Ryan is awkward, but the more I read of him the less disingenuous he seems. He'd make a good D1 policy lynch I suppose, but I'd rather lynch for scumminess or for information than to get certain personalities or communication styles out of the way.

Also, w.r.t. your 262 I think Naomi was much worse than Ryan. His looked more believed than hers. I'd rather lynch Expedience. What are your thoughts there?

Also, why did the Martha Zolanski wagon die? That one was better than the Ryan one.

[Chuck]

@Game, I'd say you can read me quite well, since I'm not sure what i'm doing either. How about we lynch Ryan, and see if that and the night clears some things up? Because I can't make much sense of this game as it is.

I do think rb's defending of Ryan is getting a bit weird. Like he has to be some insane genius to play like this as scum, wtf? How is this style any harder for scum to pull off than as town? But he ignores me when i question him about it - in fact, rb ignores all my questions. What's up?

This is almost as bad as Glitch's fear of losing the ryan mislynch

You know Ryan is a mislynch eh?

[Chuck]

Glitch, why did you agree with all my points against Naomi in your catchup in post 399, but then have me as a scumread when listing your reads?

[Chuck]

Also, w.r.t. your 262 I think Naomi was much worse than Ryan. His looked more believed than hers. I'd rather lynch Expedience. What are your thoughts there?

How would he look more town when he basically dumbtold and said that he didn't even know how many scum there were
Like lol

Dumbtell =/= scumtell, I'd think you'd know that.

Why have you been pushing him so hard but not the Naomi/Expedience slot?

Also that question about the MZ wagon was not rhetorical.

[Chuck]

Saru all your posts feel carefully calculated.

What are your (short and sweet) thoughts on Expedience/Naomi, Martha Zolanski, and RyanK?

[Chuck]

Actually, Saru, make that gameplay and BlueBloodedToffee as well.

PEDIT: No, that'd be an intentional dumbtell, which I don't think what Ryan was doing. Not trying to insult his intelligence but it doesn't look like an act.

Vote Expedience or Martha with me.

[Chuck]

"Naomi is town" is not a reason.

[Chuck]

Chucklepuff oh dear, I'm afraid I've spit my coffee on the monitor

[Chuck]

By the way, now you can add claim fishing to the list of Expedience's crimes.

Glitch is at L-5, that's not the time to ask for a claim. Period.

[Chuck]

There's four days left. Factor in the weekend, and we only have about two days where people will be paying attention.

That means anybody on a one person wagon should probably start thinking about voting somewhere else.

It's time to stop voting for pressure, and time to start voting for death.

[Chuck]

Expedience, I really don't know what to make of you.
This is some pretty creative flailing you're doing, and I've seen quite a gamut of styles in my day.

I'm interested in your claim. I'm also interested in Glitch's claim now, so, mission accomplished for you I guess.

I'm not very happy with how Martha is hopping around like a bunny on crack whose tail is on fire. I want that slot dead before endgame.

[Chuck]

@mod: I'll be V/LA until Monday afternoon.

[Chuck]

This large wagon swing makes me feel like scum were definitely in on it, even if not necessarily leading it.

I agree with Glitch however, that if he flips town, Expedience looks more town due to the claim duel thing.

That makes me suspect that either/both of RyanK and Martha Zolanski would be the scum he was a counter wagon to.

The fact that he was mostly gone during his wagon's growth is also a deciding factor in that it was a bad wagon.

It's disappointing that you guys didn't at least wait until I got back. Pushing through a wagon on the weekend is bad form even when people haven't announced V/LA.

[Chuck]

Martha hopping back-and-forth from wagon to wagon all day makes me think she's probably the most likely to be scum here.

[Chuck]

Ahhh. That's the *exact* opposite of what we needed. Silver lining though, she was who I wanted to lynch today so at least now I get to save some face.

RyanK looks really bad right about now.

BlueBloodedToffee is sneaking up on my scumdar as well.

[Chuck]

1380 and 1383 both strike me as trying to distance yourself from the responsibility of the D1 lynch. The connotation of 1380 in particular goes like "k, you idiots ready to listen to me now??" which just comes off incredibly scummy.

You're going to have to convince me why the Glitch wagon was a compromise for you when rb, one of your top scumreads, was pushing it.

That doesn't come across scummy to me at all. Gameplay was voting for one person literally the entire day yesterday and only switched before deadline.

Also doesn't joining a wagon with one of his top scum reads sound

exactly

like a compromise? What evidence could he give that would convince you? And the burden-of-proof argument reads more as an excuse for you to have a scumread on him, than it does a legitimate attempt at scum hunting.

So Game, if you had you way, who would we lynch today?

And @rb: can you now elaborate on why you said you'd be killed N1? Also, now that Glitch has flipped VT, did any of your other reads change?

@Chuck: why does RyanK look that terrible now? Do you mean worse than yesterday, and if so, why?

Worse than yesterday. Because the three biggest wagons yesterday were on Ryan, Glitch, and Martha, and both of those other two flipped town. And the Glitch wagon was like a last minute Hail Mary play to get the wagon off of Ryan.

I think either Expedience and Ryan are scum together or Expedience is scum by himself, setting up Ryan to take the fall because he knew Glitch was an easy wagon and he also knew how bad that would look on Ryan. And the Martha power role flip was just icing on the cake. Also, Expedience knew Martha suspected him, so getting rid of her would be a good play for that reason too. And finally, he knew I suspected Martha, so getting rid of her also makes me look bad.

Looking into Expedience-RyanK interactions but I would not be surprised if it's Expedience just setting up a townie.

Needless to say, I completely take back what I said yesterday about agreeing with Glitch about Expedience seeming more townie due to his push on Glitch. I think that was just wishful thinking on Glitch's part.

Also to defend against my wagon, the claims are blown way out of proportion, as it was a passing comment about "if he flips town" and as we should all know, or at least most of us, last-minute wagon swings are very rarely on scum; additionally, Glitch had made some really townie looking posts.

It seems Expedience thinks killing me would obviously legitimize my suspicions of him, and he has concluded that it's more prudent to try to assassinate my character during the day phase and hope for a mislynch. I'm fine with that. Bring it.

Vote: Expedience

[Chuck]

Also, haters can go ahead and hate that I have only voted Naomi/Expedience, because nobody else is worth voting while that slot is alive. And I'm gonna have the last laugh anyway, so. Read my above post and vote Expedience, please and thank you.

[Chuck]

Why are you going to have the last laugh anyway?

Seems fairly obvious. This is a 1v1 you won't win, and when you flip scum I will be vindicated. The only reason for your read on me never to change is because I'm your #1 detractor and you can't survive unless I'm dead, because if you night kill me it'll seal your death warrant. Play dumb though, see how well that works out for you.

More votes on Expedience.

Compromise lynches are usually when you lynch someone else that one of your townreads wants to lynch, but you can't get each other to agree. They're not when you lynch the target of one of your top scumreads.

when a lynch requires more than half of the players in the game there is obviously quite a fair chance both categories are involved.

So tell me why you are Garcia-ing my point to pitoli instead of letting him answer for himself?


Preview edit: Sure you will.

[Chuck]

Vote him then.

[Chuck]

No, because Expedience is town.

Poppycock.

Have you read a single one of my posts?
Have you read a single one of his?

What is your reasoning?

Why are you going to have the last laugh anyway?

Seems fairly obvious. This is a 1v1 you won't win, and when you flip scum I will be vindicated. The only reason for your read on me never to change is because I'm your #1 detractor and you can't survive unless I'm dead, because if you night kill me it'll seal your death warrant. Play dumb though, see how well that works out for you.

More votes on Expedience.

You really think that when you're already at 3 votes? No, you don't.

This confidence can't be real. You went from me being confscum -> town -> confscum all with almost no foundation.

Oh can't it?

I don't need a foundation to change my mind, but I laid out at least three reasons why in my last big post:

1. Glitch flipped town. Which looks bad on you.
2. Martha flipped town. Which looks bad on you.
3. You're trying to lynch me after trying to make me look bad for using common sense in twilight.

So yes, my confidence is very real.

What I'm calling

your

bluff on, is that

your

confidence should be shattered, after that Glitch town flip. But it's not. You're full speed ahead trying to lynch the same person you threw shade on for all of yesterday, and you're doing the same thing to me that you did to him, like a mislynch isn't even a bump in the road as far as you're concerned.

[Chuck]

Man, Chuck's push on Expedience looks town.

Looks easily faked to me.

This is mafia. Everything can be faked.
Way to throw shade on me in a way I can never defend myself from.

What did Glitch flipping town change your mind about, rb?
How about Martha? That didn't even so much as get a comment from you.

Your whole first paragraph of 1456 looks "easily faked" too, btw.

Please, tell me more about how sincere I'm supposed to believe that you are, while you nitpick at my extremely well-made case for Expedience's lynch both yesterday and today and say it sounds "easily faked."

[Chuck]

Wait, I just realized the obvious way to do this

Chuck, I challenge you to a CLAIM DUEL!

Um...

How about no.

[Chuck]

Just to be clear: I'm saying your push doesn't warrant a strong townread which isn't the same as saying it's scummy kk.

kk

[Chuck]

@All @Mod

I've got some pretty bad leaking/flooding going on in my apartment right now. I'm hoping to get it cleared up by Monday, but

I'm going to have LA until it's resolved. If it's not resolved by Monday I'll request replacement.

Sorry to hear. Hope everything is well with you, and that your stuff isn't very water damaged. =\

[Chuck]

[Saru's] lynch pool is Ryan, Golden, Dier - this looks very opportunistic and kinda lazy. Lynch the lurkers that aren't around to defend themselves. Very safe.

VOTE: Saru

How is this any different than what Expedience did yesterday?

frankly unacceptable lynches: gameplay, ryan, martha, rb
meh lynches: cass, saru, dierfire, golden009, pitoli
good shit lynches: bbt, chuck, glitch

I've decided that Chuck's confidence is in fact sickening, this contradicts my earlier statement that he was town for those following my posts closely. We have to purge lurkers in this game btw

It's like you're willfully trying to ignore how scummy Expedience is.

No. Vote him.

[Chuck]

^ Scum claim.

[Chuck]

We should focus on Pitoli D2. I have some suspicion on her but rn I am more interested in lynching glitch.

Just found this.

[Chuck]

Pitoli is town so that seems like a waste of time.

Pitoli is town so that seems like a waste of time.

That's weird. Why so sure?

Because they're posting makes me quite sure they're town.

We need a hammer and a flip to progress in this game.

Someone hammer.

Did you read up?

Nope. Will do it over the night phase.

Um...

Because they're posting makes me quite sure they're town.

Did you read up?

Nope. Will do it over the night phase.

Ridiculous

This ^

How does BBT know pitoli is town?
How does BBT know he'll live through the night phase?

Also, why does this look so familiar?

Will get to this later

Sure you will.

Man, Chuck's push on Expedience looks town.

Vote him then.

No, because Expedience is town.

Oh, right, that's why.

[Chuck]

BBT can also eat rope.

[Chuck]

That big post Chuck makes on BBT is not so great.

Everybody's got an opinion.

Trying to be sensational, but the actual arguments there are reaching.

What's reachy about it?

The thing about Pitoli is lazy, but not scummy. He doesn't imply that he'll survive the night - and it's a reasonable assumption anyway.

Saying that he'll do something overnight (i.e. and ostensibly explain it the day after) is implying that he will survive the night -- or did that part go over your head?

The refusal to vote expedience actually reads very town to me.

I find your lack of suspicion in suspicious things disturbing.

I have the same stance btw - the exp vs. Chuck is TvT - does it make me scummy too?

Yes.

Wouldn't scum be rather more eager to fuel such a fire?

If it was truly town versus town, sure. But it's not. So that argument holds no water.

Writing off people as town is something that this entire game seems to be doing, and it's something that I refuse to do.

The only person I have seen who has actually shown me they're probably town is rb.

And I don't see the relevance of Martha's suspicion of Pitoli. Unless you're suggesting Pitoli is scum and would have NKed her over that? Seems not likely, any scum would have NKed Martha, and she had no special knowledge so her opinions don't have any special meaning.

That's supposed to be part of the next string of quotes, I just submitted too early because I made that post on my phone.

[Chuck]

I doubt BBT is scum.

Chuck, who are your townreads?

See my post to Cass.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
Don't you think that contradiction is too significant, rb?

It's not a contradiction.

Chuck being town doesn't automatically make Expedience scum. Rofl.

He's not voting Expedience, he's voting BlueBloodedToffee.

[Chuck]

rb and Cass, what's your opinion of BBT's naked vote on me after Expedience tried to build a wagon on me?

Expedience, what do you think now that your little wagon on me has disintegrated, mostly due to you not even having the conviction to back it yourself?

You'd better nightkill me because I'm not going to stop hounding you until one of us is dead. Leave me alive, and you'll pay the price.

[Chuck]

Weird synchrony between Cass/Martha

I would like everyone to discuss this. Please note the timing of these posts. These come in fairly quick succession relative to the events that have passed in thread. Martha's votes and unvotes follow Cass's every single time, just in the space of a few posts. For these two to be Town/Town, just has to be some incredible coincidence in their reads syncing. For them to have the SAME epiphanies every time within just a few posts of each other is just... what.

Sheeps on gameplay wagon:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Gameplay506

Really a serious vote though, gameplays responses so far seem seriously off. And to my own surprise, I'm starting to like rb's style a lot more.

Agreed.

VOTE: Gameplay

Shall we wait for him to defend himself?

Sheeps off the gameplay wagon/onto Dierfire wagon:

Spoiler:

I love this post on RyanK. Town reading gameplay now. UNVOTE: Gameplay

Hm, after a strong start this seems to be stalling a bit. So I will for now
UNVOTE: Gameplay and
VOTE: Dierfire (that's the 4th vote)

You need to participate more and defend yourself.

Sheeps off Dierfire wagon:

Spoiler:

Ah, Dierfire is back and made some good posts, thanks Dierfire!

UNVOTE: Dierfire

This wagon has served its purpose, I think. But my vote shouldn't be idle, so:

VOTE: Martha Zolanski

But right now, As you have mentioned, I think Dierfire is okay for now. He's leaning on my nulltown but as I said above, I still need everybody's opinion on him.

UNVOTE: Dierfire

Martha/Cass using scum daytalk in order to coordinate slow pushes on bad wagons is a real possibility. But I have to wonder if they would be so blatant about it. IF THEY ARE A SCUMPAIR, I think the last post in this series, 489, is a solid example of them distancing. This is after the pattern of their votes has been called in thread (by me, and maybe others).

pitoli what is your opinion on this now that Martha has flipped town?

What is your opinion on Cass?

[Chuck]

I'm liking rb less and less with each post he makes.
He's gone from self-proclaimed town leader to approval-seeking waffle house.

He's completely okay with Expedience and BBT as well, which a huge red flag, since they are good choices for scum.

There's no wonder there was a mislynch yesterday.
The Mafia are running this town like monkeys running the zoo.

We need to lynch Expedience -> BBT -> maybe rb, if we are to have any shot.

[Chuck]

I refuse to lynch Golden before he is replaced. That sounds like a scum strategy.

[Chuck]

I am liking MathBlade already. Welcome.

Talk to me about scum Expedience when you're done Mathblade.

Are you serious?? NOW you want to hear about scum Expedience? When he flips scum, you're next.

VC 2.5

MathBlade (4)

: BlueBloodedToffee, Expedience, Dierfire, Cass

Cass (1)

: pitoli

BlueBloodedToffee (1)

: RyanK

Dierfire (1):

Saru

Not Voting:

gameplay506, MathBlade, Chuck

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-23 14:00:30)

Can't post songs, been stuck in China for the past week.

@mod

, I just noticed you never counted my Expedience vote (this changes all vote counts from 2.3 onwards):

Vote: Expedience

[Chuck]

Why BBT? I'm thinking the exact opposite.

[Chuck]

@Chuck:

A gentle reminder that voting must be done with the vote tags to be counted. That's because the white rectangle is the color I look for when I do my VCs.

I noted this in VC 2.3 - while I did see your vote, it was best to remain consistent. By vote tags, I mean using the

Code: Select all

[vote]Accountant[/vote]

format.

Ok.

VOTE: Expedience

[Chuck]

Ah, a replace after all. Welcome Mathblade

The VT claim sounds legit, Math doesn't look like the best lynch anymore, so:

UNVOTE: Mathblade
And my vote goes to:
VOTE: Expedience
Mostly for post 1639. Chuck is definitely scum, Mathblade/Golden is meh, but your vote stays on the big wagon - yeah right.

*Applause*

[Chuck]

Hey Ryan. I have well and truly covered that Expedience is scum.

Mind placing your vote there? Thank you in advance.

[Chuck]

Ryan, no.

Go read post 1470 and then tell me why your argument about my post 1483 is bad.

Then, vote Expedience. Thanks.

[Chuck]

Ryan do you think me and BBT are scum together?

[Chuck]

Ryan, the thing you were supposed to see that you missed was that the Martha flip makes me look bad as well. So me saying that it makes expedience look bad, is immaterial, for purposes of reading my alignment. Or as new scummer a would say, it's NAI.

To answer your "how?"s:

Martha dying made me look bad because she was the one that I suspected the most coming into today besides Expedience. And after she died all I could do was point at Expedience.
It made Expedience look bad because she had expressed suspicion of have a number of times and it looked like a kill meant to silence her.

As for how Glitch flipping town makes Expedience look bad, it's because he basically single-handedly drove that wagon directly into a mislynch.

Also his argument against to me was based entirely on me being too sure that Glitch was town, when 1) Glitch had already made some very alignment indicative statements after his hammer had gone through, and 2) all I said was "if Glitch flips town", which means he was blowing it way out of proportion just to have a reason to suspect me.

I'm not sure how you're not seeing any of this, or why I'm having to spoonfeed you.
It's like you're playing dumb, pretending not to see things that are really obvious.

If you're actually town, no offense. If you're scum, please pick a different strategy than feigned incompetence, because it is starting to get on my nerves, and I'm a really patient person.

[Chuck]

I just finished reading rb versus BBT over the last five pages.

Cliff's

Chuck's Notes:
- They both come across as petty and pedantic.
- BBT is on the defensive, and only after three pages or so does rb look like he's flagging.
- Highly doubt it's either scum vs scum. Probably not town vs town.
- Both of them would fit as a scum buddy of Expedience, but BBT would fit better.
- Due to rb asking me to compromise with him on BBT, and then he would compromise with me on expedience tomorrow, he comes across looking townier than BBT in the end.

As for that proposal rb... you got your preferred lynch yesterday in Glitch, and it was wrong. So why should I compromise when Expedience is still running around and you're picking on BBT, a relative non-entity? You should compromise with me, not the other way around. Clearly I have far more experience than you anyway, and you should trust that. Perhaps the only reason I'm not dead at this very second is because there was a power role soft claim. And if I'm wrong and you're the scum with Expedience, and BBT is town, then having you and Expedience alive tomorrow, and me and BBT both dead, sounds like a pretty sweet deal for you guys.

So, what's in it for me, if I compromise? Literally zilch.

[Chuck]

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

[Chuck]

Ryan, the thing you were supposed to see that you missed was that the Martha flip makes me look bad as well. So me saying that it makes expedience look bad, is immaterial, for purposes of reading my alignment. Or as new scummer a would say, it's NAI. Martha dying made me look bad because she was the one that I suspected the most coming into today besides Expedience. And after she died all I could do was point at Expedience.

It's completely illogical that scum would want to night-kill a scum read as they have a really high chance of being able to mislynch them.

Okay Spock, here's what you've been missing. If it is illogical for scum to nightkill someone they are pretending to have a scum read on, then it is also illogical for you to have a scum read on me because then that is exactly what would have just happened with Martha. The only possible plus would be if I were to do that as scum, on purpose, to try to spin WIFOM about it the next day. Which, if one were so inclined, one could say I am doing at this very moment. But if I was, then why would I point that out? Yet more WIFOM. Eat your heart out. The point is, your entire conclusion was illogical at its core.[/quote]

It made Expedience look bad because she had expressed suspicion of have a number of times and it looked like a kill meant to silence her.

As I said, Vedith killed 0x40 and stated it was an attempt by Vaxkiller to silence 0x40. Vedith was scum and I think I can expect the same from this.

I'm sorry, I'm completely lost. You are referring to a different game? I can't possibly defend myself against something someone did in another game, so I won't even try, but I will say this: anything can be made to look almost any way, as long as someone chooses to see it that way. Rationalization is a real thing that real people do. Manipulation is also a real thing that real people do. Mafia players do it more than most.

As for how Glitch flipping town makes Expedience look bad, it's because he basically single-handedly drove that wagon directly into a mislynch.

Also his argument against to me was based entirely on me being too sure that Glitch was town, when 1) Glitch had already made some very alignment indicative statements after his hammer had gone through, and 2) all I said was "if Glitch flips town", which means he was blowing it way out of proportion just to have a reason to suspect me.

1)What were they?
2)That looks like fact.

1)

I don't claim or soft claim or any of whatever that is for a PR. I'm literally just a VT – and even with my post saying regardless of what I am [scum, vt, pr] I would claim vt, I'll outright just say I'm not PR or scum and am just a plain little VT. xDDD

RyanK and gameplay are confusing af.

When I flip, check out Expedience and me and the association we have. I'd be shocked if he's scum.

Oh. I died. lol welp
Give me tips on how to not die next time y'all

That screams town to anyone who's not an idiot. At least, it screams town to me. And I like to think I'm not an idiot.

2) I don't know how to respond to this. However, if anything, I was *more* sure that he would flip town, than I think I made it seem. He looked very, very, *very* town at the point which I made post 1364.

If you're actually town, no offense. If you're scum, please pick a different strategy than feigned incompetence, because it is starting to get on my nerves, and I'm a really patient person.

But factually, I really don't know what to think about this any more. UNVOTE:

Hopefully everything is clear to you now.

Now, please... Vote... Expedience.

[Chuck]

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

House, answer these too please.

Thanks for replacing in btw. Good to see a familiar face.

(...since I've seen the show, not since I know you. Ha... It was funny to me, shut up)

[Chuck]

@RyanK: If you are replacing out because of me:

[Chuck]

Nope. I'm replacing out because I'm interested in [redacted].

Well then...

[Chuck]

@Chuck

I think that you may have missed some of my questions to you.

Apologies.

@Chuck

You are reading gameplay506 as Town (945). Why?

What I said in 945 was that Martha seemed scummy, rb seemed very town, and gameplay seemed town as well. The rb/gameplay fight seemed very town vs. town, so that was my reasoning at the time, however, those are pretty old reads, relatively speaking. I have gameplay/House as a town lean but not really solid. rb I have more as a question mark, but with a higher gamma than gameplay. I figure that will work itself out by the end of today, but the fact that neither of them have been afraid to throw their weight around works in their favor. Also, I like House so far.

@Chuck

I agreed with your thought in 1364 that the "claim duel" looked unlikely from a Mafia player given that Glitch flipped Town, so I was surprised that you reconsidered in 1470. Why would Expedience do that as Mafia?

Overconfidence. His play has been rank with it.

When he butted heads with me in earnest, however, and he saw the extent of my dedication to his lynch, look how quickly he backed down. He was like an attention-deficit raccoon that saw a shinier coin somewhere else, and scurried off in another direction. Another reason to lynch him; he doesn't believe in the agenda he's pushing.

[Chuck]

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

1. I want to discuss things more with MathBlade, but I suspect that I will end up reading her as Town for reasons that I will discuss afterward.
2. I'm still reading rb as Town. Nothing that BBT said made me especially suspicious, but I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads. So, if I were to choose one to lynch, it would be BBT.
3. I'm still reading Expedience as Town. I read your 1470 but am unconvinced. Among other things: if Expedience is Mafia and killed Martha so as to set up RyanK to be lynched, why does Expedience never vote for RyanK, or claim to be suspicious of RyanK? It seems strange to me that a Mafia player would create a plan of this specificity (set up RyanK, specifically) but leave the detail work to Town. In fact, I'm not sure that RyanK received a single vote this phase.

1. I believe you are correct.

2. So you read them both as town? I see a lot of town reads here. Who are your scum reads?

3. One does not simply do exactly what someone else has called them out as setting up the playing field to try to accomplish. That would not be advisable as scum. However, notice Expedience has dropped me like a bad habit and has been mostly trying to pretend I don't exist. His activity has also dropped sharply since I started exerting pressure on him D2. He's trying to fade into the woodwork. Don't let him. Vote him.

[Chuck]

I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads.

So?

I have experience with town!BBT doing exactly that, and I do as well.

"So?" Really?

So, that's

bad

,

regardless

of alignment, that's what's "so."

[Chuck]

Ah, a replace after all. Welcome Mathblade

The VT claim sounds legit, Math doesn't look like the best lynch anymore, so:

UNVOTE: Mathblade
And my vote goes to:
VOTE: Expedience
Mostly for post 1639. Chuck is definitely scum, Mathblade/Golden is meh, but your vote stays on the big wagon - yeah right.

Yes, I am voting a null / slight scum read because they have a larger wagon, this is called compromising.

No, it is called de-escalation, in hopes that I'll lose sight of the fact that you are definitely scum, and look elsewhere, "compromising," as has been a particularly pervasive buzzword throughout this game.

[Chuck]

Scumreading the guy that got killed wouldn't make him look town. If anything, it would incriminate him because it's indicative that he wanted that player dead, if he's scum.

I treat it as a towntell because I would never kill someone I could mislynch or could continue to tunnel to look town. Apart from you, I haven't seen anyone before who thinks this way of trying to mislynch their threats.

You "treat it as a towntell"... and yet... I'm your top scum read... who you are not currently voting, or pushing at all... yeah. Instead, you've been on whatever the biggest wagon of the day was, in every single vote count... yeaaahhhhh.


Believe me, I am dying to drink this Kool-Aid; it sounds like the tastiest I've ever had.

Unfortunately for you, I'm not about that life. #staywoke

[Chuck]

This gives me an idea...

Everybody pick four top scumreads. Compare everybody's top four. Lynch the player that is most widely scumread among all players.

This doesn't sound like an especially smart idea.

[Chuck]

Then again, you ARE Dr. House...

[Chuck]

I'm semi-ignoring you because I don't enjoy interacting with you.

I was inactive because I was studying for my exam which was today.

You are ignoring me... because you don't enjoy interacting with me?

That's funny, I thought it was because you were compromising!

Silly me!

[Chuck]

I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads.

So?

I have experience with town!BBT doing exactly that, and I do as well.

"So?" Really?

So, that's

bad

,

regardless

of alignment, that's what's "so."

Regardless of alignment. Precisely my point.

So?

So, it's unconscionable to not only allow anti-town behavior to persist, but indeed to defend it when it is questioned or challenged.

[Chuck]

Not answering questions, and not explaining reads, are both concrete examples of objectively anti-town play.

Are you done with the completely superfluous theory lesson yet?

Are you going to discourage objectively anti-town play, or are you going to continue to defend it?

[Chuck]

This is exactly what I was talking about in this MD post a week ago:

Unfortunately if you just mow through people who do bad things and "deserve" to be lynched, the Town loses more often than they already do.

At some point you have to understand that many people don't play the game the way you'd like it to be played ("well") and you have to get people to do what you want within the confines of how they want to play the game.

This statement is a small symptom of a greater problem.

If site culture now consists of valuing "teamwork" with people who don't play well with others, more than valuing victory, then "winning" is relegated to little more than a glorified participation medal where things also just so happened to go right for you that time because you hit the jackpot in a lottery of detrimental players.

What happened to old guard players teaching "the way things have been" to the new school scrubs by example, and lynching them mercilessly until "the way things are" dawned on them and they started contributing towards making "the way things'll continue to be" into something the old guard could comfortably hand off and retire? (or keep playing until they were well and truly over the hill but then thaaat's none of my business)

The inherent beauty of mafia-style "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" is that when anyone refuses to drink you can just rope them until they stop kicking. Neutering that is just watering down the game you claim to know and love, in favor of playing slappywags in kid gloves.

Knowledge and culture trickles

down

, not the other way around.

If you aren't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

[Chuck]

Not answering questions, and not explaining reads, are both concrete examples of objectively anti-town play.

Are you done with the completely superfluous theory lesson yet?

Are you going to discourage objectively anti-town play, or are you going to continue to defend it?

anti-town play != scum play

Why equivocate the two?

I'm not equivocating the two in the least.

Answer my question:
Are you going to discourage objectively anti-town play, or are you going to continue to defend it?

[Chuck]

I also don't get the Expedience scum reads.

Have you

read

my posts?

[Chuck]

Because I think you need to understand that you're being really obvious right now because you're pretty much admitting that BBT is being really anti-town and therefore you think he's town?

You're not applying any pressure for him to shape up, despite agreeing he's being anti-town?

You've quoted multiple posts of mine and even said they were strong townie posts, while admitting BBT is being anti-town, but if it 'comes down to it' you think it's me who should be lynched?

House and BBT are scum.

I find myself nodding and clenching my fist in front of my face.

Also I have no idea who House replaced, I missed it.

Oh ROFL it's gameplays slot.

Can we just kill BBT + House now? Thanks.

I'll do either one first.

Chuck stop being a dickface and DO SOMETHING

How rude.

But I agree. Pushing Expedience is getting nowhere fast.

You're looking townier by the minute, and I am feeling the same thing about House defending BBT's anti-town play. It seemed off. BBT seems off too, he is making statements like "It's funny that you think I can be lynched in this game" ... which is the

epitome

of false bravado (another overused buzzword).

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee - This should ruffle some feathers.

Could also do House.

[Chuck]

12+72-(13*92)+19-60 = BBT town

Like, anyone that thinks this doesn't add up needs remedial math classes.

2+2+20 = 3+15+16

I can't break it down any simpler than that.

What are you talking about?

Speak in plain English. This is not cute, it's just annoying.

[Chuck]

Not answering questions, and not explaining reads, are both concrete examples of objectively anti-town play.

Are you done with the completely superfluous theory lesson yet?

Are you going to discourage objectively anti-town play, or are you going to continue to defend it?

anti-town play != scum play

Why equivocate the two?

I'm not equivocating the two in the least.

Answer my question:
Are you going to discourage objectively anti-town play, or are you going to continue to defend it?

I refuse to lynch town simply because they are playing anti-town.

Period.

And you know he's town... How?

[Chuck]

I suggest you see a doctor and get your intestines checked.

Hate to break it to you, but our doctor died N1, so you're SOL.

[Chuck]

12+72-(13*92)+19-60 = BBT town

-1153

2+2+20 = 3+15+16

24=34

That tells me nothing.


MathBlade what do you see that I'm not seeing?

[Chuck]

Soooo marthaaa why are you voting glitch?

1126 and 1127

This is post 1153.

It tells me nothing.

[Chuck]

No. If I explain it is antitown.

[Chuck]

Oh never mind I see it too. I don't get the first one though.

[Chuck]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Expedience

[Chuck]

Ok one of Chuck or Expedience is scum. Awesome.

Bingo.

There's four days left. Factor in the weekend, and we only have about two days where people will be paying attention.

That means anybody on a one person wagon should probably start thinking about voting somewhere else.

It's time to stop voting for pressure, and time to start voting for death.

This large wagon swing makes me feel like scum were definitely in on it, even if not necessarily leading it.

I agree with Glitch however, that if he flips town, Expedience looks more town due to the claim duel thing.

That makes me suspect that either/both of RyanK and Martha Zolanski would be the scum he was a counter wagon to.

The fact that he was mostly gone during his wagon's growth is also a deciding factor in that it was a bad wagon.

It's disappointing that you guys didn't at least wait until I got back. Pushing through a wagon on the weekend is bad form even when people haven't announced V/LA.

So you want people to start voting for death... then you criticize them for pushing through a wagon when the deadline, that you used to pressure them into consolidating their wagons... was so close?

Like, wtf man? Explain how these two inconsistent thought processes come from the same mind.

"Stop voting on vanity wagons and vote one of the main ones" is not logically mutually exclusive with "That last second flash wagon on someone who wasn't really involved in D1 feels like scum were on it/drove it."

Please let me know if you have any questions.

It'a House you need to vote, Chuck.

No. House's narrative is entirely consistent with a townie who thought BBT had crumbed cop. I haven't found a crumb, but I don't want to lynch BBT today. If he's actually a cop he's dead tonight, if he's scum that'll work itself out.

Obviously, nobody should claim (or counter-claim) though, regardless.

[Chuck]

Ahhh. That's the *exact* opposite of what we needed.

Silver lining though, she was who I wanted to lynch today so at least now I get to save some face.

RyanK looks really bad right about now.

BlueBloodedToffee is sneaking up on my scumdar as well.

VOTE: Chuck

?

I don't like to look stupid.

[Chuck]

^ I also don't think House is a good lynch.

Beginning to think (I know, whoa) that I may be wrong about Expedience.

[Chuck]

Ahem.

Also Chuck tunneling Expedience endlessly is as awful as Ryan's play. He's a non-contributor to town, even if he has a strong scumread there's still a shitload of other significant goings on but he doesn't show any interest.

Chuck/House/BBT

You've been pushing this narrative for a while now.

Here is my response, from ages ago:

I have made my thoughts known on plenty of other players. Saying I'm only tunneling on Expedience is painting a picture that doesn't exist.

And my post continues:

You haven't addressed anything, you've just said you think I'm "town but wrong" which is a very convenient cop out response.

That conclusion is STILL true. I originally had you pegged as town because you pushed in a lot of different directions, and created activity, but increasingly what I'm seeing is that your presence in the game is not having any measurable pro-town effect at all, in fact, it's having the opposite.

And now that I have outlived my usefulness to you, and you've found that I won't lynch House or BBT just because you repeatedly ask/beg/tell/order me to, with different tones of voice and in different words, suddenly you're back to your "maybe we can swing a mislynch on Chuck" frame of mind and you just tried to blow the dust off the old "he's a broken record, stuck on Expedience" argument, which is patently untrue.

VOTE: rb

[Chuck]

Ooooo MathBlade vote rb with me. And you too, House.

[Chuck]

Oh House already is. Excellent.

[Chuck]

I wonder what Chuck will do now if he thinks I'm town. That was basically his whole deal, and everything else just snipping at a post here and there.

I don't think you're town I'm just not as convinced that you're scum because some of the stuff you're doing doesn't make sense as scum regardless of buddies and some of the stuff you're doing makes sense as town.

You should vote rb.

[Chuck]

I still want to lynch rb after Dier.

Why not before?

[Chuck]

I still want to lynch rb after Dier.

Wait wait, what happened to Mathblade/Golden lynch BBT?

Your top scumread is scumreading me, you aligning with them? What a gr8 player.

This is a scum post.

[Chuck]

Oh and now I'm reading page 85, House vs rb. Delicious, I missed this before.

[Chuck]

More from Martha. Peep this post:

@Martha why do you freak out when I vote people? LOL

It's because you give non sense reasons.

Pitoli what do you think of Exped's "do not lynch" list? What would you change?

I still want to lynch Martha. I don't really see how everyone read her reactions to my accusations as town-motivated. All of her wagon movement up till that point didn't read like an innocent townie sheeping. That's my gut. I've never really had a problem with confbias before but sure I could be making a mistake.

I can probably be convinced on gameplay based on their posts in isolation. But for that to happen, you have to be town. And you've been slowly sliding down to nulltown for me.

I am not sheeping. The reason why I am voting for the person who is wagoned is because that I am investigating them like iso-ing them, scum reading them and compare the reasons of people said to the person being wagoned. And if I believe that the person being wagoned is scum, I am gonna vote for that person.

I iso-ed expedience and I see what you mean. What I found interesting too is how he defends Ryan all day long, like half of his post are defenses for Ryan. It's weird. Makes me want to lynch Ryan more, just to see what he flips.
And Martha: Expedience starts attacking Martha, but then decides she is completely town and defends her a lot too.
Then he goes after me, but denies my association with Martha - protecting Martha again.
Eventually he goes to Glitch, wich comes off as opportunistic, since glitch is one of rb's pushed for lynches.

Oh, and my own 'town-read' of Martha is based primarily on her soft claim and my benefit of the doubt, to see what she's gonna tell us tomorrow.

I could support an expedience lynch today. Seems better than gameplay or glitch, and about equal to Ryan.

I am actually thinking that Expedience is a scum. I am also aware that she is defending me, but that's because she wants me to townread her. I am actually weak in reading the people who are defending me. I may read them as town for defending me. It's a shitty reason right? This is why I hate scums when they defend me because they can earn a town read.
But..
Expedience also is defending Ryan so as rb. I mean the difference is that rb has more reasons to defend Ryan than Expedience. Expedience's defending him is just her reason of, "I am town reading Ryan" and that is completely scummy. I am not siding with rb in this statement.

And you're sheeping rb right?

frankly unacceptable lynches: gameplay, ryan, martha, rb
meh lynches: cass, saru, dierfire, golden009, pitoli
good shit lynches: bbt, chuck, glitch

This is basically an activity list

That's coincidental.

I can't see it being coincidental. I mean, yes it could be but I am not believing it. BBT has no contributions so far (and def needs to be replaced) and you're saying that he's a good lynch? Why? for inactivity and numerous V/LA?

if scum!Ryan, scum!rb gets easy town points for bussing his partner and moreover, losing a bad partner isn't that costly.

I am actually thinking the same thing. Rb and Expedience are using the day talk to make Ryan just a useless player in this game. Thus, Ryan will be suspected and they could hop on the wagon. But seeing it now, They are just defending Ryan. I mean there's a hidden strategy that the scums are doing.

I could totally see rb-Expedience, which is another reason I'm so willing to lynch rb.

[Chuck]

The game is up.

Your time has come rb.

[Chuck]

Just read the post man.

[Chuck]

I just happened to see that post when I was digging up my (very old) response to the (very old) argument about me tunneling on Expedience.

[Chuck]

If you're town, put some effort in.

[Chuck]

For shame.

[Chuck]

I refuse to lynch anybody until Cass (4 days 4 hrs) and pitoli (6 days) post, and until RyanK is replaced.

The activity skew in this game is objectively awful as well, with some people making all the posts (rb) and some people making barely any (Saru). I mean, Martha has been dead for most of the game, and still has more posts than all but three players.

This lurking needs to be corrected by not only the players, but the mod as well. There are 48 hour activity rules for a reason. This game will definitely go to scum if that kind of behavior isn't reined in.

[Chuck]

Nah. Too much to read.

...



Seriously?

If you don't die tonight, I'm lynching you tomorrow.

[Chuck]

I'm done with you BBT.

The only reason I'm not lynching you today is because I know I'll get no support, and there's a slight possibility you're being antagonistic on purpose in order to try to avoid the nightkill, because House has thrown a softclaim down on you and it looks like you're trying to make people not like you, so scum might choose to kill somebody else because nobody would listen to you anyway.

Which I think is false, because I think you're just trying to *appear* to be trying to do that, because your current "I'm going to be as useless as possible" attitude is completely at odds with the other attitude you had earlier of "people will sheep me because I'm BBT." Those two attitudes don't come from the same slot.

[Chuck]

The game is up.

Your time has come rb.

Scum running the choo choo train.

Telling his partner he is getting bussed.

Whether you think we are scum together or not should be immaterial, as long as one of us dies, right? So why not vote him?

Afk for most of the day.

But you're not going to lay down a vote before you go?

[Chuck]

I'm not being useless.

What are you talking about?

I'm done with you BBT.

[Chuck]

@mod: ETA on RyanK replacement? Also, will you be replacing Cass or pitoli?

[Chuck]

I have had a death in the family, very close to me. I will be V/LA for an unforeseeable amount of time.

I have done a brief skim. Thanks for replacing in SpySpy. This is me not hammering Dierfire. rb/Expedience are my top suspects.

[Chuck]

Woo! Replacements! I need to read the player list and see who all replaced who, and try to get it straight.

Doc AND jailkeeper means there is probably some scum roleblocker, redirector, or strongman. Both of them dead though means scum can kill pretty much whoever they want.

At this point I'd be very surprised if none of rb, BBT, or House are scum.

[Chuck]

Alive

1)

gameplay506

House
2)

Comparing Realities

BlueBloodedToffee
3) Saru
4)

pitoli

Titus
5) rb
6)

RyanK

SpyreX
7)

golden009

MathBlade
8) Chuck
9)

Cass

camn

Dead

1) Glitch (Vanilla Townie)
2) Martha Zolanski (Town Doctor)
2) Dierfire (Vanilla Townie)
4) Expedience (Town Jailkeeper)

So that means Saru and rb and I are the only non-replacements. At least there's only one replacement in each slot. Small favors.

[Chuck]

So, Expedience was town. And a PR. If he thought I was so scummy he would have probably jailed me, meaning I logically couldn't have been the one to kill him. That seems fair.

I guess that explains his fervor for claim dueling. I thought he was either a VT or scum, what with him waving the claim duel around like he did. Guess not.

[Chuck]

Sooooo I've got a potential wrinkle.

I'm a 1 shot vig. I shot expedience last night. Which means we should go a crumb hunting.

Well that certainly puts a damper on my "Expedience would have jailed me so I can't be scum" line of reasoning. In fact it makes me look downright shady.

So I'm seeing a number of possibilities, knowing my own role and alignment I can definitely say Expedience dying is not my fault, so that means:

1. SpyreX is lying. And is scum who shot Expedience. And is paranoid of a track/watch which pins him to the kill, or is trying to get ahead of that, and draw out a potential cop claim too.

2. SpyreX is telling the truth, which means either scum no-killed (very unlikely), shot the same person (I've seen it happen before, and it has interesting ramifications), or scum was blocked/jailed (most likely option, in my opinion).

[Chuck]

If SpyreX and scum both shot Expedience then I don't even know what that means.

Either way like was already said, we need to find out who he probably jailed.

[Chuck]

VOTE: Dierfire

I read from page 84 without automatically skipping long posts and it hurt =( Don't like Dierfire's push on Cass, it feels manufactured like he was looking for reasons to scumread someone rather than evaluating from all the analysis he did throughout the game. There's really nothing else though and this is a compromise, I can't read his tone or distinguish between playstyle or anything.

These are my reads since they settled:

{House, rb, Saru}
{Mathblade, BBT, SpyreX}
{pitoli, Dierfire}
{Cass}
{Chuck}

This is the only thing I can find which feels like a pointer to who he would have jailed, and it implicated me most prominently, followed by Cass/camn. So that part, while not a total dead end, is not very helpful.

However the possibility also remains that he jailed as a means of protecting someone. Which means he could have either jailed right, or jailed very very wrong, and in fact could have been right by proxy. So House, rb, and Saru are people I could all see being who he jailed.

All this assumes it's not just simply that scum and town might both have wanted him dead. Which also implicates me. So that's fun.

SoyreX could have been doing this to me on purpose I suppose, since I probably have the greatest chance of reading him correctly.

SpyreX, why did you shoot Expedience?

[Chuck]

Townbloc -
Camn
Spyrex
Probably BBT

Scum -
House

Unknown -
All others. For now.


And for the haters: these opinions are based on solid reasoning and hard bona fide scum slips. I will lay out the case when the time is right. For now, work with me, and it will all be revealed before the end.

P-edit - good, rb. Good.

What is the reasoning for these reads?

[Chuck]

Sooooo I've got a potential wrinkle.

I'm a 1 shot vig. I shot expedience last night. Which means we should go a crumb hunting.

Well that certainly puts a damper on my "Expedience would have jailed me so I can't be scum" line of reasoning. In fact it makes me look downright shady.

So I'm seeing a number of possibilities, knowing my own role and alignment I can definitely say Expedience dying is not my fault, so that means:

1. SpyreX is lying. And is scum who shot Expedience. And is paranoid of a track/watch which pins him to the kill, or is trying to get ahead of that, and draw out a potential cop claim too.

2. SpyreX is telling the truth, which means either scum no-killed (very unlikely), shot the same person (I've seen it happen before, and it has interesting ramifications), or scum was blocked/jailed (most likely option, in my opinion).

VOTE: Chuck

Chuck doesn't even hypothesize that Expedience could have saved the person who would have been shot.

Chuck seems smart why is he not pointing out all potential angles?

Seriously?

Post 2390 is very hypothetical and I'm beginning to think you're just being obtuse on purpose to make noise.

[Chuck]

If SpyreX and scum both shot Expedience then I don't even know what that means.

Either way like was already said, we need to find out who he probably jailed.

Why would scum shoot Expedience over BBT?

House you aren't this bad either.

If BBT is a cop it could be wine.
If BBT is a cop Expedience could have jailkept BBT.

If BBT is not a cop and you are just wrong and Expedience didn't trust you he could have jailkept someone else and they were shot.


Cmon Chuck and House this is terribad.

I think a BBT jail is a definite possibility.

[Chuck]

VOTE: Dierfire

I read from page 84 without automatically skipping long posts and it hurt =( Don't like Dierfire's push on Cass, it feels manufactured like he was looking for reasons to scumread someone rather than evaluating from all the analysis he did throughout the game. There's really nothing else though and this is a compromise, I can't read his tone or distinguish between playstyle or anything.

These are my reads since they settled:

{House, rb, Saru}
{Mathblade, BBT, SpyreX}
{pitoli, Dierfire}
{Cass}
{Chuck}

This is the only thing I can find which feels like a pointer to who he would have jailed, and it implicated me most prominently, followed by Cass/camn. So that part, while not a total dead end, is not very helpful.

However the possibility also remains that he jailed as a means of protecting someone. Which means he could have either jailed right, or jailed very very wrong, and in fact could have been right by proxy. So House, rb, and Saru are people I could all see being who he jailed.

All this assumes it's not just simply that scum and town might both have wanted him dead. Which also implicates me. So that's fun.

SoyreX could have been doing this to me on purpose I suppose, since I probably have the greatest chance of reading him correctly.

SpyreX, why did you shoot Expedience?

@MathBlade

[Chuck]

If SpyreX and scum both shot Expedience then I don't even know what that means.

Either way like was already said, we need to find out who he probably jailed.

Why would scum shoot Expedience over BBT?

They could have thought/knew you were wrong about BBT. Or BBT didn't suspect them. Or BBT could be scum. There are lots of reasons.

[Chuck]

Townbloc -
Camn
Spyrex
Probably BBT

Scum -
House

Unknown -
All others. For now.


And for the haters: these opinions are based on solid reasoning and hard bona fide scum slips. I will lay out the case when the time is right. For now, work with me, and it will all be revealed before the end.

P-edit - good, rb. Good.

What is the reasoning for these reads?

I think I figured it out and it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

So, House defended BBT when others questioned him not providing reasons for reads or answering questions.

You didn't like that, and you say House is scummy for it. But then now you're doing the same thing for camn that House did for BBT, saying the equivalent of "smarten up" to people who question naked reads.

You're a flaming hypocrite, doing the same things you criticize others for, and you're also conveniently ignoring half of what I say and framing things out of context to make me look bad. VOTE: MathBlade

[Chuck]

@camn:

Nah I'm very very fine off the House wagon. I don't see scum-House outing who he thinks is a cop. I see him keeping mum and shooting him.

If

the explanation for last night's kill and flip given SpyreX's claim is that Expedience kept BBT alive by jailing him, then House is about the

last

person I'm gonna think is scum. And def not a good lynch.

This player list is all about wagoning people and drawing out claims to prove a point. I'm just not on the same page. Why not just vote for who you think is scum? Or

do

you think House is scum?

[Chuck]

I do think BBT needs to eat a bullet tho

[Chuck]

Chuck House and RB sitting in a PT
S-C-U-M-M-I-N-G

My intestines hate your posts rb

I'm town so your intestines are calibrated wrong. Or maybe you ingested a bad case of scum-itis :p

This looks like scum banter.

[Chuck]

I think you're right. I think a lot of Day 1 was theater and I think I've been on the receiving end of a lot of directed misinformation and I'm wiping the slate if House flips scum.

If he flips town though, I think Math needs to die.

If House is scum, BBT almost DEFINITELY needs to go.

[Chuck]

Camn lay out your full thoughts asap as you're probably not seeing tomorrow is my guess

Yes. I skimmed but I'm still very unclear as to what is going on. Rereading the last few pages.

[Chuck]

House got hammered right?

[Chuck]

Oh wait, rb voted me so it's still L-1 I think. On phone so not sure.

[Chuck]

rb BBT Math is my best guess if House isn't scum

[Chuck]

If he is scum I'm thinking SpyreX is town, and probably one of BBT and rb is a buddy, and the other is probably Titus or Saru.

camn seems very town.

[Chuck]

camn if you wanna unvote I am willing to L-1 House if this is the way things are going. The more I read the more I like you and if you have results on House I'm comfortable with it.

[Chuck]

I still don't get the House-scum BBT-town thing. I'm thinking the opposite, sans info role results to the contrary.

[Chuck]

Welp I'll take that as a scum claim

[Chuck]

A scum flip here really clears things up. camn target me tonight just in case please. I think I will need that possible clear, if you can provide it.

[Chuck]

Also I swear on the sword of my father Domingo Montoya that I am not a godfather.

[Chuck]

Where did everyone go. This is my twelfth post just this page so I am gonna shut up now.

[Chuck]

Scum has to have at least a roleblocker left.

With the camn flip, I'm suspecting SpyreX most now.

1. Having 4 town PRs in a game this size is getting to the point of moonbeams unbalanced.

2. A claim like 1-shot vig, RIGHT after a Jailkeeper flip, and then trying to use that jailkeeper flip to paint me as scummy, looks more like a scum gambit than telling the truth.

3. How come SpyreX's predecessor didn't use the vig shot?

4. There is no way to confirm SpyreX's claim unless camn confirmed it being legit which I don't think she ever did even though she made all kinds of hints as to what she though House was and in fact pushed for his death.

5. Sending me as scum to make a kill when I'm in a deathlock 1v1 with someone, is nigh insane, due to me and Expedience being probable night action lightning rods. It is obvious he probably jailed me N1 as well and a kill still went through, so why mess with a winning strategy?

It all seems too convenient from SpyreX's perspective. And I feel really strongly there's fishiness afoot.

What did camn actually say about SpyreX? because I'm hazy there.

BBT and Math are still excellent picks for scum.

P-edit: that's a surprise. Why "quickly"?

[Chuck]

I am confident Spyrex is town.

Hmm.


Hmph.

[Chuck]

I doubt BBT is scum with House. And house is scum.

Spyrex...come help. You are the only one I am sure of.

Okay nvm my big post a few posts ago.

[Chuck]

Well point #5 still stands actually, and quite strongly.

And I have no idea who Expedience jailed, but I know I don't have a kill, and I doubt anyone tried to kill me off that night, seeing as I had only really pushed on Expedience and a few others at that point.

[Chuck]

Golden wagon is the best wagon.

I'd rather not have the Mod go through the effort.

It's taking a while and I'm pretty sure Golden is scum anyway.

I could lynch rb after Golden.

We should lynch Golden before he is replaced.

Mathblade still looks like an excellent lynch.

There.

@BBT:

why haven't you pushed MathBlade harder? You seem fine to lynch anyone that is not you.
Who are your town reads?

@MathBlade:

why haven't you pushed BBT harder? And why are you pushing me? That's crazy talk + you keep saying "Chuck/rb" and doing this huff thing like everyone should know I'm scum, but where was your support when rb was getting wagoned?

VC 2.11

rb (3):

House, Chuck, BlueBloodedToffee

Chuck (2):

Expedience, MathBlade

Expedience (1):

Cass

Dierfire (1):

Saru

Cass (1)

: pitoli

House (1):

rb

Not Voting:

RyanK, Dierfire

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-23 14:00:30)

You have been giving a lot of lip service to rb being scum, but you haven't actually put your money where your mouth is. You've still been voting me even when you could've been voting a bigger wagon on him.

Also, you think SCUM-me just decided to hop on this SCUM-rb wagon with SCUM-House (and TOWN-BBT?), to try to get a SCUM-rb lynched? Where is the logic there? There is none. Unless you think it was all some vast conspiracy with all of us bussing (and them two since D1, when House's slot was still gameplay), then this all holds no water.

None of what you're saying makes any sense from a game solving standpoint. It only makes sense from an agenda-pushing standpoint. And your agenda stinks.

VOTE: MathBlade

[Chuck]

Whoops, BBT, that should read something more like: "Clearly you have been pushing MathBlade. But why haven't you screamed your head off to get her lynched, a la camn/House or me/Expedience?"

And the other questions still stand. Who are your townreads? And why "quickly?"

[Chuck]

Just going through all the vote counts and I'm noticing that pitoli's voting history is awful. Like, really really bad. Spends the vast majority of time camped on large wagons on conftown or probtown. Spent a vote count or two on gameplay/House, but only AFTER the wagon had already died from 5 votes down to 2 votes. And Titus does basically nothing to improve the slot. Or do much of anything, I'm noticing on reading her slot.

I think pitoli/Titus may actually be the third scum, and trying to lurk to victory in a sea of large personalities which will undeniably clash.

[Chuck]

I spent most of Yesterday trying to get Math lynched.

Nobody would listen.

The lie detector test determined this was a LIE.

You did not vote MathBlade at all yesterday.
I was the one voting MathBlade at the end of the day.

Town reads are people I don't want to lynch.

Great! Who are they?

Quickly so nobody realises I scum.

.......

[Chuck]

Thanks Spy! You're the best.

What would make you more OK with the Math lynch?

[Chuck]

There we go. This game has some serious dysfunction and needs some purge in quick order.
Cass is town. Pitoli is town. Chuck is town. Rb is probably town but is in many ways responsible for this grand debacle.

What are/were your reasons for any of these reads?

[Chuck]

3 questions I want everyone to answer:

1. Do you think BBT is too obvious to be House's scumbuddy?
2. Do you think Math/House interactions are distancing?
3. Who's the scummiest player, ignoring House flip?

Kgo. I'll answer last.

1. No.
2. Yes.
3. MathBlade

[Chuck]

Don't explain townreads tyvm kthx scum have daychat don't do it for the love of all that is holy it doesn't matter pls no.

Oh yeah.

[Chuck]

Wait, why not? How could explaining his reads possibly help scum?

[Chuck]

1.) It's not obvious as much as bizarre. With house flipping neo, i find it more likely it has something with the result which would be bbt town.

2.) Considering some of the early vc, i could buy it being a slapfight.

3.) If i could shoot someone right now it would be saru. Probably.

1. Please explain because I'm not following.
2. Yes.
3. Ah yes. Saru is someone I need to look at again. That Dierfire push seemed super town though.

[Chuck]

3 questions I want everyone to answer:

1. Do you think BBT is too obvious to be House's scumbuddy?
2. Do you think Math/House interactions are distancing?
3. Who's the scummiest player, ignoring House flip?

Kgo. I'll answer last.

1. No.
2. Yes.
3. MathBlade

I have to be pedantic, sorry but bear with me.

Do you think Math/House interactions are distancing because you scumread Math independently, or do you really think those interactions look like distancing?

I don't have meta on either, so, independent scum reads. I actually town read House up until just before he self hammered.

[Chuck]

Cass was obvious from one of her early d2 posts where she thought she saw some busted numberwang.
Pitoli was consistent in pushes. Just all around appearance of town play in apathy land.
You made sense and an additional reason i have 0 interest in getting into. Call it meta.
Rb is the weakest and that whole d1 could be a slapfight but that much effort just smells right.

Edit: I've got no issue with that for the time being.

I think I know your reason and I am fine with you using it.

Disagree on pitoli after looking at vote counts. Check again. There's no consistency, just flowed wherever the wind blew, and jumping on the gameplay (House) wagon while it was dying was a really bad sign.

[Chuck]

And rb, don't lie, you don't hate to be pedantic; I've just sat through four days of you doing just that.

[Chuck]

Never before in my life have I been as tickled to be referred to as a big boob.

[Chuck]

But it's necessary and everyone should have been sheeping me from page 1 onwards until I got fearkilled by scum ^_^

Disagree, except yes you were right on gameplay.

I'm not sure why my huge townread on you gradually disappeared. But it did.
Maybe it was scum just playing the "don't push lynches, just passively undermine townreads all game" strategy which I have seen time and again.

Personally I'm inclined to reread everything, because I think a mislynch today puts us in a bind of sorts, but I never seem to have time. And to be frank I don't want to slog through.

[Chuck]

rb you are doing what you did which made me lose my town read on you in the first place. Which now I remember. It was, you went from being a strong leader-type with conviction in your reads... to a pandering waffle house.

You've just gone from a strong read on the me/you/SpyreX triangle and a scum read on Math, to arguing with Saru (who is making a lot of sense) and agreeing with MathBlade (who is talking moonbeams and getting basic facts wrong).

Return your vote to MathBlade.

Preview: and now all of this is moot because I started writing this post and then had to do something else and when I finished it there were 20+ ninja posts.

Aaaand, two more.

Aaaaand, another.

[Chuck]

And also Pitoli duped like the entire town if that's the case, so really just deserves to win if scum.

What?

I don't even know what you're saying here.

[Chuck]

rb you are doing what you did which made me lose my town read on you in the first place. Which now I remember. It was, you went from being a strong leader-type with conviction in your reads... to a pandering waffle house.

You've just gone from a strong read on the me/you/SpyreX triangle and a scum read on Math, to arguing with Saru (who is making a lot of sense) and agreeing with MathBlade (who is talking moonbeams and getting basic facts wrong).

Return your vote to MathBlade.

Preview: and now all of this is moot because I started writing this post and then had to do something else and when I finished it there were 20+ ninja posts.

Aaaand, two more.

Aaaaand, another.

What basic facts have I gotten wrong?

Pedit: Already did Titus will requote AGAIN for the second time.

If you think I am town, why aren't you trying to correct me?

If you think I'm scum why aren't you pointing them out to get me lynched?

Answer you're probably the last scum with RB.

The last three sentences are @Chuck sorry.

You were incorrect about SpyreX v camn being the role cop (albeit you fixed this with an ebwop I believe.
And four PRs are ALREADY flipped, and SpyreX has claimed a fifth, which was more or less corroborated by camn.

It's pretty obvious I don't think you're town.
I did point them out. I just didn't enumerate them at the time. I have now corrected that.

Additionally I pointed out multiple other flaws in your logic which you have failed to address.

[Chuck]

I'm still paranoid about the missing kill too. I could definitely see mafia been given a vidge/neo to complement all this town power.

Either that or there is some kind of strongman still running around. Probably also limited-shot given that Expedience was ostensibly able to block it.

[Chuck]

IT IS LIKELY TITUS AND RB SCUM WITH A BACKUP OF CHUCK. LYNCH RB FIRST TOMORROW.

If you are truly town I'm sorry, but I really do not understand your communication style ... if you can call it that.

And if you are town then I feel vindicated in suspecting pitoli as well.

Also I'm pretty sure if you flip town that I'm going to live until tomorrow given I'm not virtually conftown like SpyreX and I don't really feel like I have a handle on the game at all.

[Chuck]

Omg hydra talk titus rb scum confirmed

Not sure if cheeky scum because nigh conftown, or correct town who is just playing around.

If anybody dies but you friend I'll be casting a long sideways glance while loading my six gun.

[Chuck]

This is the Day 3 Twilight RVS phase.

HL³ has been confirmed!

P.S. It's Day 4.

[Chuck]

Sometimes you just gotta shitpost

Lmao

[Chuck]

IT IS LIKELY TITUS AND RB SCUM WITH A BACKUP OF CHUCK. LYNCH RB FIRST TOMORROW.

If you are truly town I'm sorry, but I really do not understand your communication style ... if you can call it that.

And if you are town then I feel vindicated in suspecting pitoli as well.

Also I'm pretty sure if you flip town that I'm going to live until tomorrow given I'm not virtually conftown like SpyreX and I don't really feel like I have a handle on the game at all.

It is a simple matter of Accountant can come online at any moment and I want to make sure my reads get seen.

Titus instantly hammered without BBT or Saru being able to explain.

RB wanted to know why Saru townreads me.
Titus townreads RB

Why does Titus of all things cut off day early before her supposed townread is ready?

This needs an answer.

I agree this needs an answer.

[Chuck]

Half-Life 6: Pixie Sticks confirmed.

[Chuck]

Half-Life 7: Electric Boogaloo... ?

Or has that ship sailed.

[Chuck]

Math what do you think of Saru?

[Chuck]

Why?

[Chuck]

@Math: Eh, scum wouldn't refuse to give you meta. It would be ... scummy. No?

@Titus: "We three", who?

[Chuck]

Chuck isn't on this page. Qt slip. Scum team 3

We are never on the same page. Ur Quan-tification of that as scummy is scummy.

[Chuck]

BTW, if we three are in agreement that we townread each other, the proper play tomorrow (assuming math town) is to have the pool of the suspects vote first). They can only vote each other. We confirm by vote pattern. Scum also must be in the 1 v 1.

CHUCK TITUS RB SYPREX SHOULD NOT ALL BE TOWNREADING EACH OTHER RIGHT NOW!!!!

I don't town read them all. Lol. I have had my frequent doubts about all of them and the only one I kinda sorta trust is SpySpy. But this is the most fun I've had all game so why not run with it

[Chuck]

No joke I'm replaying the orange box right now which is why I made the Half-Life joke in the first place.

P-edit: So much yes.

[Chuck]

My lynch list looks something like:

BBT
Titus
rb
Saru
SpyreX
Me

[Chuck]

Spy every time you make a post like that it makes me think you're scum

[Chuck]

I swear if you don't die tonight

[Chuck]

99% sure BBT is scum.

[Chuck]

It's between Saru and rb for the last one. I could see Saru, but I'm leaning rb.

[Chuck]

Chuck - what do you think my meta reason is for you being town.

I thought it was because I invited you to the game. I guess that's not meta though. You tell me.

And whichever of you are actually town start putting your hat on and helping me out. Or throw the votes down for double secret lylo game on the line.

Cause yes bbt scum without words doesn't make me happy.

I had very little time earlier. Didn't wanna vote for obvious reasons not the least of which was that I wasn't totally positive and I didn't want to throw the game.

And if i do an activity search and see sarus been active I'll throw it before im done down there

We are on the same page there.

[Chuck]

BBT gives no reasons for reads all game, now he wants then.

Blatantly defends House/gameplay slot and vice versa.

Saru + BBT are the scum.

BBT granted, but, why do you say Saru here and not me? You have been saying I'm scum all game.
Obviously doesn't sit well that you dropped your scum read on me like a bad habit.

I feel like today is the day we are going to lynch one more and tomorrow is going to be the real hard test.
Like I want to say BBT/Saru as well, but that's way too easy if you ask me.

rb I need some scum meta. Preferably at least three games.

[Chuck]

VOTE: BBT

He's scum.

With Saru.

99% sure BBT is scum.

Vote BBT then.

If you're town, Chuck/Saru are scum.

UNVOTE: BBT

This series of posts isn't inspiring my trust.

Why are you asking me to vote for BBT if you're not even going to stay voting him yourself?

Also the implications of:

1. Throws a vote down that confidently in LyLo, with two scum running around, implies he's that confident in his vote, or is one of the scum.

2. BBT tells him that if he's town he should remove his vote. He removes it. What town he has not already considered the fact that voting wrong in a 5P LyLo is a death wish? And why is he unloading just when BBT appealed to towniness?

3. Has a vote down, eggs me on to vote the same wagon. If rb is scum and BBT is not, that's just opening the gates for a scum quick hammer and a game ending lynch. Voting first could have just been bait for me, since I already said I'm 99% sure BBT is scum he thought he could get an easy victory by doing that.

[Chuck]

Actually thinking rb/Saru now.

Reasons for BBT were mostly House-related. They are still there but definitely overshadowed.

Unless this scum team is the perfect trifecta of bussing, buddying, and banter, I find it very hard to believe that rb and BBT could be scum together.

Which leads me to believe that Saru is scum either way with one of them and we should lynch Saru and suss rb/BBT tomorrow.

Thoughts, Spy?

[Chuck]

I think it is ... safest ... to save BBT/rb for tomorrow and lynch Saru... I'll think on it. There's no rush.

Half of me really wants to lynch rb now though just for his behavior today. Since if we went to correctly today were still in the same spot tomorrow, we might as well go for broke today.

Unless Saru pitches a real good case that rb and BBT could be scum together Saru is probably the way to go though.

[Chuck]

Unless it's either the most hilarious spyrex scum tomorrow or I'm being punished for wrongdoing I'm dead tonight if we're right so yes today is gonna take a while.

My issue right now is i can literally convince myself of any pairing chuck. I need to parse.

Rb killing titus makes minimal sense. Of the 4 that is the least likely at the moment by a tiny margin

I remember you saying yesterday that if you died Titus should push a lynch on Saru.

I would think that if scum was trying to set Titus up to lynch town-Saru, you would've died.
Meanwhile, who did Titus want to kill? Also Saru, right? So that kill would definitely make sense.

Unless of course that's what I'm supposed to believe and I'm just falling into that trap perfectly.
WIFOM is a hell of a drug.

p-edit: Exactly. It's almost too perfect.
And yes, make memories with progeny instead. Glad your priorities are in order!

[Chuck]

BBT gives no reasons for reads all game, now he wants then.

Blatantly defends House/gameplay slot and vice versa.

Saru + BBT are the scum.

BBT granted, but, why do you say Saru here and not me? You have been saying I'm scum all game.
Obviously doesn't sit well that you dropped your scum read on me like a bad habit.

I feel like today is the day we are going to lynch one more and tomorrow is going to be the real hard test.
Like I want to say BBT/Saru as well, but that's way too easy if you ask me.

rb I need some scum meta. Preferably at least three games.

I actually haven't been saying you're scum all game so gtfo with that.

How the fuck is "too easy" a reason when the game is at LyLo with 2 scum left and all town PR's dead on successive nights? This is the opposite of an "easy game".

How can Saru or BBT be "too easy" when at various points we've tried to get either of them lynched and it hasn't worked? Makes literally no sense.

Feels like you've been throwing shade on me all game, from your first post on. In fact if I were scum I probably would have killed you a long time ago.

Also, SpyreX isn't dead so that kind of pokes a hole in your balloon of all town PR's dead on consecutive nights, unless of course you think he's lying. I don't know what you're trying to say here.

What *I'm* trying to say with the whole "too easy" thing is that it feels like scum is playing too good for us to be catching them that easy.

And another thing: why wouldn't scum-gameplay have killed you? I have seen no concerted effort to assassinate your character or lynch you that I can recall, so what is the point of leaving you alive this long? Especially when you yourself said that you expected to die on night 1?

The longer I ruminate the more stuff I think of.

[Chuck]

Increasingly sure rb is scum.

He says BBT is scum, and votes BBT, then BBT says "if you're town unvote" so he unvotes
He says Saru is scum, then I ask him why Saru and not me?, and he gets flustered and calls me scum.
Then suddenly he says he thinks Saru is town because BBT voted for Saru.

So your BBT vote was a reaction test?
So your Saru suspicion was a reaction test?
So your turnaround after I questioning you calling Saru scum was a reaction test?

It doesn't add up no matter how many ways I've tried to color it in my head.

The fact that anyone can be SO active in the game, and push so hard on KNOWN scum, and STILL be alive in LyLo...

Also doesn't add up.

The fact that he is cavalier about his votes IN LYLO, and his suspicions change with the drop of a hat, basically tells me that he's pushing all different directions to see whether anyone will bite. Also, it's highly indicative of day-talking scum, working an angle with someone else.

Purely from an activity standpoint I am forced to conclude that based on the votes laid and the opportunities to hammer which have been had, it can be solidly deduced that I am not scum with BBT, rb, or Saru, otherwise me and any of the three could have hammered any of the three at this point, since they have all been voted for without being quick hammered. Additionally, SpyreX falls in the same category, of not being scum with any of the three. That leaves three possible scum teams.

BBT/rb
rb/Saru
Saru/BBT

I was leaning towards thinking the first one was not a possibility due to interactions (I also thought gameplay/rb was not possible either).

But, things being as they are I am seeing rb is and has been the linchpin of everything that has happened in the game so far. So that points to scum with daytalk steering things throughout. I can totally see this being the case with rb.

One last thing:

MathBlade, camn and Titus were replacements into the game. They are all dead now.
MathBlade hated rb and thought Saru was town.
camn was obviously a power role and needed to die.
But faced with Titus/SpyreX to kill, SpyreX was the obvious choice I thought, especially since he was more involved, and perhaps less predictable. Scum still chose to leave alive somebody who is refusing to lynch rb.

Sometimes it's not rocket science.
Sometimes it's 2+2.

SpyreX, I REALLY REALLY REALLY think rb is scum. Why don't you again?

I think it's rb and Saru. Would rather lynch rb, for all the reasons listed above.

It just makes so much sense. One is hyperactive and one is quite the lurker.
I don't know why I couldn't see this before.

[Chuck]

Rereading d1 is such a painful thing. That glitch wagon almost requires bbt scum.

Here's a great question. Who kills Martha? The nks this game are bizarre

I thought Expedience but that's wrong.

Then I realized it was because she soft claimed a PR: "my claiming would be bad for the town"

[Chuck]

I can't explain what I am feeling this game. I am a town. I can't role claim because this will affect us, town. Basically, Pitoli's synchronization theory over me and cass makes my mouth shut. I don't know what to respond on that because all I can say is THAT it's purely coincidental and timely. And I don't know why but that affects me hard. I am trying to do my best here to scum hunt but I am turned off now because of what Pitoli said. I feel like I've been cornered and suspected. This is why I am okay with myself being mislynched. I don't know what to say now.

And also, why are you not voting Cass? I mean, If we two both are scum then why are yall just voting for me? What's with the Ryan is more scummy than Dierfire and after that, Yall jumping on my wagon?

And Pitoli, That synchronization theory of me makes me mad (Not personally as in rl) I don't think that it's a good reason for you to vote for me.

And rb's sheeping makes it even worse.

PEdit: [Referring to Expedience] You are saying that you voted for me because I look scummy and now, I don't look like it now. Well that's the case between my vote for Dierfire and Ryan. I unvoted Dierfire because he's becoming null to me - and I get suspected on that. Yes, I said that RyanK is the most scummy than Dierfire and on that time, I am still holding my vote for Dierfire but yall suspecting me on that? Fuck. And when I unvoted and voted RyanK yall suspecting me? What the fuck is that.

Thank me because I now can voice out my voice in this shit. I've been stressed out in this game.

Here. Right at the beginning.

[Chuck]

I see it this way Spy, its pretty much either rb/Saru or BBT/Saru. There's a Saru either way.

If we lose here, I can eat my pride. I have been off my game all game, AND Saru doesn't deserve the win for having lurked so much. Also I am okay with seeing rb win if it was him/BBT/House and they just power bussed that convincingly, and even with House crashing and burning, still pulled it out.

If Saru is scum we can suss BBT vs rb tomorrow, but I want Saru out of the picture to stop being a distraction PLUS I just think nobody else makes sense with both others as scum.

Intent to vote Saru.

And I want you to decide when this goes down because chances are you won't be here tomorrow.

[Chuck]

Right. I remembered.
Man i want it to be you the mystical town bro but I'm still skeeved any the jailing. I'm still reading though

There's literally nothing I can say that should convince you. With regards to the jailing or anything else. I've played awful. My reads have been awful. In fact, the only reason I'm gonna be voting Saru today is because there's so little chance that it's rb/BBT, because then it'd be rb/BBT/House, and that would be the most consistent bussing I've ever seen in a scum team and believe me I've seen my fair few. All three, both bussing both the others? I can't see it. Saru has to be scum and if the two of rb/BBT I'm at rb being scum by a large margin.

And what was that meta tell anyway if I didn't guess it?
(I mean, it's probably wrong but like I said I'll take it lol)