NY 179: Cute and Fluffy Mafia (Town Win)

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: I am innocent

cause clearly anyone who was truly innocent wouldn't have to advertise

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: I am innocent

cause clearly anyone who was truly innocent wouldn't have to advertise

By that rationale have you just exposed yourself as scum?

where have I advertised anything?

you seem a bit jumpy for random voting. Did I pick your partner or something?

[dragonspawn]

I had planned on Bus'ing him much later, but he just wouldn't leave well enough alone. He forced my hand.

so the two of you are scum? Odd admission this early in the game.

[dragonspawn]

Dragonspawn is Nero Cain's buddy.

I'm buddies with someone I don't know and hasn't posted yet? I'd love to see the reasoning

[dragonspawn]

I had planned on Bus'ing him much later, but he just wouldn't leave well enough alone. He forced my hand.

so the two of you are scum? Odd admission this early in the game.

That's certainly one way to read that post.

What are your thoughts on him {pen}?

not sure yet. The fact that he starts off showing he didn't bother to see who is playing and the omgused in the next post dont exactly scream town to me. But it's still too early for me to get a feel on whether I think he is scum.

[dragonspawn]

Btw since busing involves one scum throwing his partner under a bus I'm not sure how I was supposed to read it other than as a claim that you guys are partners

[dragonspawn]

Not randomly voting because it has never ended well for me. I'm not a part of this "system".

So:
VOTE: firebound12
Because turtles.

what system are you not a part of? And why does it look like you're random voting when you say you aren't.

[dragonspawn]

Btw since busing involves one scum throwing his partner under a bus I'm not sure how I was supposed to read it other than as a claim that you guys are partners

Well, it could also be a joke playing off of DGB's post. Claiming Scum on page 1 and outing your partner are generally not things done legitimately around here.

@Yuni- Define "randomly voting" plz.

jokes are supposed to be funny. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you aren't feeling scummy so far.

[dragonspawn]

It's because of turtles...I mean, who doesn't love turtles?

the Shredder

[dragonspawn]

Even tho it took him 2 guesses?

I thought it was a typo.

Typos are used by scum as excuses for flips.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: abr

you picked an appropriate screen name.

[dragonspawn]

Talking, interacting, maybe discuss set up, what the title of the thread might mean, introducing yourself etc. All of these progress your reads of other players so far and provides the rest of town with information. There is quite a bit we could start on, it is not really that difficult to use your imagination.

Well set up is off limits this early in the game, cause that could lead to outing power roles.

But the rest I'm game. I'm town, I have nothing to hide. So talk to me, interact with me, show me how this is done.

Cause honestly, RVS works for me. I'm getting a feel for a few players...but if this helps you, let's do it.

you keep making it a point to claim you are town when no on has accused you, except my random vote. It's making me think my random vote may have had some merit after all.

[dragonspawn]

I'm buddies with someone I don't know

I'd love to know why you said this, I mean it's a piece of information that I simply don't have access to.

if you don't know then you clearly can't read. But we both know you can since you managed to edit the post and cut off half the question as well as the request for you to produce some sort of reasoning for your accusation that I was buddying someone who I still haven't even seen a post from.

the question at this point is why go to the lengths of making an accusation, then editing the post asking you to back it up to try to incriminate me. It doesn't make any sense. It's also pretty darn scummy. But is that because you are scum o just completely insane and dishonest? I'm not sure yet. But you've definitely attracted my attention.

so would you please answer the original question of why you think I'm buddying Nero? I fugue the more you talk the easier it will be to determine your alignment.

[dragonspawn]

I'm buddies with someone I don't know

I'd love to know why you said this, I mean it's a piece of information that I simply don't have access to.

He is telegraphing that he is a traitor and would like the scum to recruit him via NK.

I am? Odd. I thought I was asking a question.

[dragonspawn]

Nooo I wanted to be scum with dragon spawn

Why him and not Nero? Nero would have made more sense in context.

maybe he just recognizes greatness when he sees it and would like to see what we could create in future games.

or more likely he was just giving you a hard time for silly posts.

[dragonspawn]

If he'd just said something about Nero not having posted yet, there wouldn't be a problem.

I did. In the question you cut apart.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: TDA

Though I do find it very interesting that dragonspawn never called out TDA on his misrep and actually tried to argue it as a genuine case.

DGB hopping on the misrep is also yucky.

how didn't I call him out on it?

[dragonspawn]

Spoiler: dragonspawn and TDA stuffs that ended up being a bit long because quotes and redundancy(?)

I'm buddies with someone I don't know

I'd love to know why you said this, I mean it's a piece of information that I simply don't have access to.

if you don't know then you clearly can't read. But we both know you can since you managed to edit the post and cut off half the question as well as the request for you to produce some sort of reasoning for your accusation that I was buddying someone who I still haven't even seen a post from.

the question at this point is why go to the lengths of making an accusation, then editing the post asking you to back it up to try to incriminate me. It doesn't make any sense. It's also pretty darn scummy. But is that because you are scum o just completely insane and dishonest? I'm not sure yet. But you've definitely attracted my attention.

so would you please answer the original question of why you think I'm buddying Nero? I fugue the more you talk the easier it will be to determine your alignment.

I see dragonspawn as somewhat scummy, but not exactly in the same way as TDA does. dragonspawn seemed to have started to get serious on getting scum reads a bit early, so dragonspawn's post that seems to be "on trial", seems to have taken place around the time he really began reading into people's posts (#27 #44 (not sure if derping around on #44 or just..)) and I think it's his full reaction that's the problem:

Dragonspawn is Nero Cain's buddy.

I'm buddies with someone I don't know and hasn't posted yet?

I'd love to see the reasoning

The end part there is way more scummy than the single part that TDA edited ("I'm buddies with someone I don't know"). Especially the bolded part. It shows defensiveness. TDA's post was obviously him derping around. If dragonspawn's reply was ("I'm buddies with someone I don't know and hasn't posted yet. Best buddies lel") then it would have been okay. But that bolded part shows him taking TDA's RVS lulz seriously.

I can see where TDA was coming from, but the editing of the post was awkward and actually hurt his case, I think. It doesn't capture the seriousness of dragonspawn's post. If TDA is town, he's not doing a very good job after doing that. I can almost smell the bw.

Of course, it is entirely possible that dragonspawn is a "little bit too serious town" and TDA is scum trying to take advantage of that, but ended up steering his "suspicions" in a weird place. "I'd love to know why you said this, I mean it's a piece of information that I simply don't have access to" takes that certain edited part of dragonspawn's post too seriously. It's just a weird scum-read.

Or they're both town who take things a little too seriously. Who knows.

Not sure if I quite got my point across, and I may have been redundant. Anyway I think I'll hold out a bit longer and see how this turns out.
Oh, and I guess I should end these turtle shenanigans.
UNVOTE: firebound12

Had dragonspawn not responded so aggressively rvs would have been dragged out even longer than need be.

you can't give me all the credit. Without tda saying stupid things I wouldn't have needed to say anything. I dislike stupid reasoning

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: tda

I find quote editing scummy behavior so the best evidence we have so far is tda.

plus id like to see where this wagon goes.

[dragonspawn]

Did we catch scum already? Huh. Good work team.
Judging by that VC, ABR is probably town too, which is fun.

did we? I'm not sure. We have some leads though.

who are you voting for?

[dragonspawn]

So editing a quote to say something it doesn't mean isn't scummy?

[dragonspawn]

So editing a quote to say something it doesn't mean isn't scummy?

That didn't happen.

so everyone is imagining that you cut a question in half, pulled it out of context as a response to accusation, made it a statement to try to make it look like I am claiming to buddy someone who hadn't posted at the time? I suppose all the votes for you based on this not happening aren't really there either?

if you really believe that nonsense there is no reasoning with you

[dragonspawn]

This is not the time for discussion. This is the time for quicklynch and hammertime.

why on earth should we quick lynch anyone?

[dragonspawn]

How are you so sure?

[dragonspawn]

Do you think that he used the fact that he didn't know Nero as a reason for why he couldn't be buddies with Nero.

it would be difficult to be buddies with someone I don't know and still haven't interacted with.

[dragonspawn]

So editing a quote to say something it doesn't mean isn't scummy?

That didn't happen.

so everyone is imagining that you cut a question in half, pulled it out of context as a response to accusation, made it a statement to try to make it look like I am claiming to buddy someone who hadn't posted at the time? I suppose all the votes for you based on this not happening aren't really there either?

if you really believe that nonsense there is no reasoning with you

I never said that you tried to buddy someone. You should probably try actually reading.

I want you to explain in detail, how I changed the meaning of your sentence. Because I don't think I did.

I seriously hope you aren't town because it annoys me to no end when we lose because our fellow townies insist on lying, especially for stupid reasons.

[dragonspawn]

I believe in the righteousness of our bandwagon.

not sure righteousness has anything to do with this

[dragonspawn]

I'm happy to vote TDA but would rather the round last a bit longer as to give an opportunity to develop reads on other people rather than just revert back to RVS day 2 in order to generate more leads. I'm holding off changing my vote right now for that reason.

@TDA the reason your truncated quote of him was scummy is because it changed the context of the sentence to something he wasn't trying to say.

I agree that the is no need to rush. But I don't think we will be near RVs next round. This round has already given us alot of info and the night kill will likely give more.

[dragonspawn]

I didn't ask you, but is that a yes?

of course it's a yes. It's one of two reasons your accusation made no sense.

and now you're claiming you never made one. Lying is such a stupid way to play this game if you are town unless someone is asking if you are a power role.

[dragonspawn]

So Dragonspawn is scum. He's avoiding answering my questions and the fact that he still thinks I was arguing that he was buddying Nero means that he hasn't read any of my posts.

the fact that you're trying to claim you didn't when anyone can look at the quote which causes me to ask you the question you edited tells me that you've got a serious problem being honest.

and I quoted it on page two. And I know you saw it because you edited my response.

how exactly do you think your denial is going to persuade anyone not to lynch you?

[dragonspawn]

and Dragonspawn:

THEN WHY IN GOD'S NAME DID YOU SAY IT BECAUSE THAT'S A PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT I SIMPLY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO. WHY SHOULD I CONSIDER IT WHEN DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT YOU BEING BUDDIES WITH NERO?

because I gave you that information in the response you edited

[dragonspawn]

I am not actually a fan of RVS, I feel it just gives scum the opportunity to vote without reasoning, which I do not think is good for town.

It's the part of the game that is the most revealing of the player's inner conflict.

who do you think is mafia based on this rvs?

Kid A is not reading the game and is scum.

because he asked you a question?

why not answer it?

[dragonspawn]

TOWN

DGB
TheDudeAbides
Flubbernugget
Peacebringer
Garmr

NEUTRAL

Nero Cain
randomidget
YuniChikako

DESIGNATED LURKSACKS

golden009
Drake Crusader

DERP?

killapenwin
evilpacman18

SCUM

ABR
d3x
AlternateAccount
dragonspawn
Kid A
I Am Innocent
firebound12

Townies: Please try to be more convincing, thanks.

why you those picks? How many scum do you think there are?

[dragonspawn]

because he asked you a question?

why not answer it?

How come you're not badgering your buddy evilpacman for not answering MY legitimate questions?

I'm evils buddy now? He hasn't answered my questions either if you haven't noticed.

right now you are here and he isn't. Otherwise I would be asking him questions.

[dragonspawn]

Btw I can't help but notice you dodged my question

[dragonspawn]

the fact that you're trying to claim you didn't when anyone can look at the quote which causes me to ask you the question you edited tells me that you've got a serious problem being honest.

No Dragonspawn.
I have never once suggested that the problem with post is that it looks like you were buddying Nero.
It's true that if you just read the cut off part of it that it looks like that,
but that has never once been my point, and there is no way that you can be reading the thread and still think that.

because I gave you that information in the response you edited

No you didn't. Not even close. You continued on to say that Nero hasn't posted yet, and that you would love to know my reasoning. That in no way answers my questions.

not sure what else I can say to someone who will pathologically lie so much. I could say it's night time and you'd say it was noon.

[dragonspawn]

Dragonspawn is Nero Cain's buddy.

this is apparently TDA not claiming that I am buddying nero.

apparently I've never quoted it before despite me having quotes it in the response where I asked him his reasoning, that he responded to by editing my question.

but I guess I don't read his responses.

[dragonspawn]

Dragonspawn, if you are confusing buddying with buddies with, you should probably replace out of this game.

claiming I am confusing something to backtrack is pretty scummy. I know what buddying is. Which is why I also know it's impossible to buddy someone I don't know and who hasn't posted. See, in order to buddy someone in this game, you need to have some sort of interaction. At this point I still don't have any interactions with Nero. And as I pointed out didn't even know him on page one where you made yo. Claim and started us down this rabbit hole.

[dragonspawn]

Dragonspawn, if you are confusing buddying with buddies with, you should probably replace out of this game.

Even when he confused buddying with buddies his arguments still make a lot more sense than anything I ever seen you produce.

You're a clown.

he is far more amusing than you are and makes some sense too. You could learn from him.

[dragonspawn]

You disgust me.

funny, you don't seem to like it when others do I, but you didn't have any problems doing it earlier.

again who do you think your fooling. It's not like anyone hasn't read the first page or the times you've been quoted by now.

[dragonspawn]

Do it. Stupid autocorrect

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: AlternateAccount
random voting the person above me.

Another scum!

Explain to me how that is any indication of me being scum. And later on you put me on your scum list as if I was confirmt scum. Little quick on the accusation here?

I just ISO'd myself, and noohing I've said could possibly be described as a nasty hack job.

VOTE: thedudeabides

Please elaborate on your vote. I ISO'ed you and you have not explained any reasoning against TDA. People seems to be so trigger happy with their votes without explaining why.

This is not the time for discussion. This is the time for quicklynch and hammertime.

This is not the time for discussion. This is the time for quicklynch and hammertime.

why on earth should we quick lynch anyone?

I'm happy to vote TDA but would rather the round last a bit longer as to give an opportunity to develop reads on other people rather than just revert back to RVS day 2 in order to generate more leads. I'm holding off changing my vote right now for that reason.

I agree with DS and killapenwin, quicklynching will only help scum. ABR are you suggesting something about you by inviting everyone to wagon?

DudeAbides is town.

Again, pretending to give facts with no reasoning.

my issue with DG isn't him just giving his reads with no reason. My problem with him is not answering any questions about his reads while demanding answers from everyone else.

I can't figure out if ABR is acting the way he is to draw scum out as some sort of strategy or is just completely random.

[dragonspawn]

--Thoughts--

Early issues with pen- CogDis with p60 in the context of p13. This is a big problem for me. p61 is also an issue. He over explains the IAI player list thing by dropping the Newb card, but completely avoids the OMGUS issue... again. Delves into a potentially distracting theory debate instead of doing the thing he's talking about doing. Further, he is still holding onto an RVS Vote while bemoaning the merits of the RVS.

@dragon44- Does pen's CogDis bother you as much as Yuni's?

@fire- Why do you keep explaining your RVSes? ...does not want.

@Peace64- Are you Voting because you see a VI PL in the making or because you legit feel he's scummy?

DudeWagon is fine, I guess. penWagon would be infinitely better. I'm not sure I get the FlubWagon.

you make some good points. And those posts do bother me. I have a hard time buying the I just didn't know explanation.

I completely forgot about the question I asked yuni. I'd still like an answer. I'm clearly too distracted with TDA today.

I'm calling town here. Just feels right.

[dragonspawn]

That's not semantics. It's DS pushing an unbelievable argument.

and what argument is that? That you said what you said? That you have a double standard for complaining about game doing what you did?

because id you haven't noticed I haven't been arguing to lynch you. I've been asking questions and responding to yours to give yourself more time to talk. And you are hanging ourself

[dragonspawn]

If you don't want to lynch me, why did you ask me to claim?

I didn't say I didn't want to lynch you. I said I wasn't arguing for it. I'm letting you make the case for it.

and I've never asked for you to claim. I don't think anyone has

[dragonspawn]

Claim and started us down this rabbit hole.

editing quotes again? Seriously

[dragonspawn]

Neighbors eh? Well that explains TDAs obsession with Nero at the beginning. Problem is the assumption that since they are neighbors one or them must be scum. Last game I played with neighbors I was in a hood with pacman. Everyone assumed there had to be scum among us and there wasn't.

tell me, has Nero said anything there to indicate he is scum or are you just assuming one of you is scummy?

[dragonspawn]

I'm just going to ignore tda for a bit and focus on other people it's starting to clog the thread with his shit.

I decided to do that when he decided to chop quotes again. There is no reasoning with someone when they deny doing what they do. I will only interact with him if he makes any relevant post on another issue.

[dragonspawn]

If your assertion is that Dude is Scum... and he's

in

the Hood... well...?

I'm not following the reasoning here. If he is scum his team wouldn't know about the hood until either he dies and his role is revealed or he talks to them. Am I missing something?

and yes it does seem a bit early for town to be revealing all that.

[dragonspawn]

At this point:

town

gamr
d3x

leaning scum
TDA
IAI
kill

everyone else is fairly null at this point

[dragonspawn]

yes it does seem a bit early for town to be revealing all that.

Ok, what advantage does it give scum, and why should town in general, and why in particular should town whose been shot, not reveal that they are in a neighbourhood?

you weren't actually shot.

it gives scum a chance to stir up chaos by focusing on the hood with the false assumption that someone there has to be scum.

it's totally inconsiderate to out the hood without discussing it with your neighbors unless it you are doing it to make a scum accusation or defend someone in that hood.

[dragonspawn]

Almost everyone is "possible scum".

[dragonspawn]

Why are you so lynch happy?

Game doesnt seem to be going anywhere

well then talk more. What are your reads so far?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: killapenwin

why?

[dragonspawn]

I'm more inclined to believe tda is just a bad town player right now rather than scum. So leaving my vote on him at this point would be a policy lynch. And while I don't relish his game play lasting to later rounds, it seems prudent to me vote on a better scum choice.

VOTE: killpen

I'm starting to think iai is more town now.

[dragonspawn]

What is to explain about my vote change? I thought it was fairly clear.

1) tda comes across as more of a foolish town than scum so my vote at this point would be a policy vote.

2) I was already suspecting killpen from earlier interactions.

3) voting for someone I think is scum is better than a policy reason.

though I must admit tda trying to claim I haven't explained non existent buddying doesn't make sense to me. If I start thinking tda is scum again I'll be going back to him

[dragonspawn]

So we are hanging up on you because you didn't vote for tda? That makes no sense. If we want tda dead, why would we vote for you rather than him? And if we don't want him dead why would we hate you for not voting for him?

stop being so full of yourself to think any of us are voting for you out of hate. It's not worth the effort to hate over a game like this

[dragonspawn]

Ganging up. Stupid autocorrect

[dragonspawn]

If pen is Hammered before Kthx posts anything of significance, I'll be very put off.

It'll make that player slot guaranteed scum.

not if it's because we rush lynch and don't give him a chance.

[dragonspawn]

I'm finding kth to be town so far. I like what I've seen so much.

[dragonspawn]

More of an in depth skim than full read. I was confused for a minute why you were calling "pen" scum while voting killa, but then realized they were one in the same later.

I'll read up real quick in detail.

-I see in p250, you saw what I saw from a quick killa ISO.
-p344 is where I got the hood with at least you, dude, and garmr in it. Later (p490) I see it's Nero, dude, and you with Garmr faking a dayvig to out it. You think Dude is town for it but now I'm interested in your thoughts on Nero. This matters since if we can read it as a town block, that's to our advantage. From your ISO revolving around this, I'm getting strong town vibes from you unless BOTH of you and Dude were scum, which I agree with your reasoning why he's not and the fact that you pointed it out makes me get warm fuzzies from you as well. Make sense?

There, that's a full ISO read.

I have 2 of the hood as town for the way it came out and what was posted surrounding it. Now, how about your Nero read (along with the above quesitons)?

I'm finding kth to be town so far. I like what I've seen so much.

What if I told you that this is completely opposite of my town meta in Large games?

then I'd be watching you a bit closely because arguing that this isn't your town game would make no sense really. Hence why I would have to figure it out.

it's still early. Just giving my first impression that's all.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: dgb

why?

[dragonspawn]

re: Nero- Meh. I'm largely ambivalent on Nero. In spite of the insistence of others, I'm not convinced that there has to be Scum in the Hood.

Maybe all three of you are scum and there is no hood.

quite possible for though unlikely. I was in a hood before were three of us were scum from different teams.

[dragonspawn]

Hey ika how is it going?

[dragonspawn]

Some players are wasting their votes:

TheDudeAbides (3):

AlternateAccount, Flubbernugget, YuniChikako

dragonspawn (1):

TheDudeAbides

Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

firebound12 (1):

I Am Innocent

Garmr (1):

killapenwin

I Am Innocent (1):

Nero Cain

wasting votes? Hardly. Each one tells us something and helps us with figuring out who the scum are. We just have to figure out how.

there are a number of people pushing for a quick lynch. It doesn't seem to matter who the candidate is. Why is that? The more knowledge we obtain day 1 the better we can hunt scum.

[dragonspawn]

Let's lynch killapenwin, the lack of activity close to lynch points to scum.

Mostly because I am not finding this game interesting at all: people voting without giving reasons in the same post and the opposite others doing super multi-quotes that are just ridiculously long and pointless. I'm not going to read something if you can't make the point in less that 5 quotes, nor am I going to scour the thread trying to find your reasons.

I'll make things easier on you guys though since you a piss poor lynch so much

vote:killapenwin L- 1

I was town tracker but will be dead tonight now anyway.

maybe if you made an effort you wouldn't be in this predicament.

btw dont votes have to be on separate lines. I'm not sure your vote counts.

[dragonspawn]

Self-voting is usually playing against your wincon as far as I'm aware, bit of a null statement.

As town tracker I will most likely be killed tonight before I can even produce anything of use, thanks to the wagon on me spearheaded by Garmr. In case it is not glaringly obvious I am not going to last long enough to be of any use, someone asked for my reads so I gave them.

Dripping and ABR are happy to jump on any wagon that forms and don't even reason their votes so they are probably scum.
Garmr just charges head on with lies and everyone thinks it is ok. You have just lost a town tracker and the neighbourhood because of him.
Naked is also someone not giving reasons with his votes, probable scum.

really? Gamr forced you to claim tracker and self vote? And everyone else forced you to put up no defense of yourself?

what a cop out.

[dragonspawn]

I'm seriously considering a PowerLynch on ABR D2 when/if pen flips Scum.

what's a power lynch?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: killaspawn

too late

you hammered. I'm not at all shocked.

[dragonspawn]

I don't have you as Scum independently at this juncture, only due to pen's reactions.

what are you seeing there that I'm not?

[dragonspawn]

Except I don't think ika actually hammered since I don't think the self vote counted.

[dragonspawn]

I think looking at Kid A or Gamr might be good places to start...

based on why exactly?

[dragonspawn]

What, stupid autocorrect

[dragonspawn]

@Jogger- lol

@Kid A- I'd still like an answer to p574 & p576, plz.

VOTE: dgb

how does that post get you to vote dgb?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: randommidget

because he seemed to do yesterday is demand we rush a lynch on someone without actually caring who it was. Which of course avoids discussion and brings on the night phase.

[dragonspawn]

dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1): Kid A
firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

, Ika
TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako

Not Voting -

Kthxbye

,

evilpacman18

, StrangerCoug

Alright, the above is where we sit (obviously, if you're town, insert your own name in green for your own VCA purposes). Looking at the votes on killa, the ones that are on with legit(ish) reasons come from d3x, Garmr (sorta OMGUS, but I see town motivation), dragonspawn, and killa.

-NakedJogger remains on killa while at the same time pushing that the wagon leader (d3x) is scum. This does not make sense to me.
-ABR just wanted to lynch yesterday. I've been like that as town in larges before and it matches his meta imo.
-Peacebringer's only explanation was he didn't like what he saw...
-DGB claimed wagoning. The kicker here is that she then posts 539 which pings me as outside knowledge of killa's flip. THEN in 558, she calls ABR scum for wanting to rush killa's lynch yet doesn't unvote the lynch ABR is pushing.
-randommidget has a high amount of votes and literally no content. Also complains about the game not going anywhere (to look town?) while doing absolutely nothing to try and make the game go anywhere (a scum advantage).
-ika asks to be filled in and makes a snarky comment before rushing to hammer.

Now, out of all those with suspicious reasons to be/stay on the killa wagon or with no reason at all, I see scum motivation in all of them. The ones that ping me the most though are:
NakedJogger, DGB, ika and randommidget

I doubt all 4 are scum (too convenient?) but I do think there is AT LEAST 1 if not more.

VOTE: NakedJogger

For the above and the push on d3x who I am strongly town reading as his push on killa (although wrong in the end) is straight up his town meta.

I would be okay to switch to DGB though. Both of their play yesterday in conjunction with them being on the killa wagon is just scummy as hell. Both call other players who are on the wagon scum (attempting to set up a D2 lynch imo) while not having a problem remaining on the wagon with the person they are calling scum with a seemingly high confidence rate than the person they remain voting for.

The only reason I go with NJ right now is because I don't like randommidget on it and to an extent, TDA on it (killa's only real counter wagon yesterday).

As this is a large, I'm pretty much ignoring those not voting or off the wagon yesterday as there are so many damn'ed people.

Now I don't know much about ika. Only played one game with him. So he could be town or scum, but his vote won't indicate it either way. As long as he is in the game, he will hammer when we are at L1. Maybe we should be cautious about putting anyone there if we don't want them lynched.

oh and ika, you wanted to know where I know you, I use another screen name there and the rebels won when we lynched your queen causing you to flee.

[dragonspawn]

Why on earth should we policy lynch ika so early in the day simply because he likes hammering L1 and when we have scum suspicions? It's fairly easy at his point to keep ikas hammering tendencies from causing problems. Dont put anyone at L1 until we want them lynched.

id much rather scum hunt than policy lynch at this point. Besides a PL let's the scum do nothing and move close to winning. Unless ika is scum for some reason. Did anyone read alt who he replaced as scum?

[dragonspawn]

ABR u scum?

why are you smiling when someone asks you if you are scum?

[dragonspawn]

Alternate account is also probably scum.

how do you figure?

[dragonspawn]

Random, what do you think of the ika policy lynch?

[dragonspawn]

I feel like this is a trick question. I'll take the money.

did someone offer money? I want some.

not sure why you think it's a trick. There is a simple response. The truth

[dragonspawn]

Spoiler: @Kthx

@NJ: So here's the thing. In order to answer that question, we'd have to delve into what it is that scum play like which I've found is pretty different for everyone when it comes to their opinions. Let's just say, in MY point of view, I search for players who get on mis-lynches for no, vague, or regurgitated reasoning.

As for you, well, I'm not understanding your logic for being on the wagon yesterday when your number 1 scumspect was freaking leading it. You threw some percentages at me but in order for us to go "yeah, let's lynch d3x", you're telling us that there is no way that both d3x and killa are town. Unless there is some other way you can know this, you simply just don't know this. If you're scum, you'd know the opposite is true and I don't think you'd be pushing for the 'either or' thing this hard this early. The only other option is you bussing your d3x-partner as you're both scum. I don't think the latter is possible since d3x's town meta is exactly how he's playing now. When I have more time, I'll pull some up (or if d3x wants to be a dear and provide his own meta...).

Let's just say, his meta isn't that he mislynches town D1, it's that he finds something scummy from someone and tunnels the shit out of it till the person is dead. He simply isn't this aggressive as scum and seeing as I replaced into this game, he has/had very little reason to try and switch his meta just for me.

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out if you're just playing "VI"-like (as d3x says) or if you're scum. I don't like your 'there's 100% chance that one of d3x/killa is scum', but I'm not sure that it makes YOU scum.

What's not to understand? Put yourself in my position: You get a scumread on some guy and then you do your best to make people understand why he's scummy, but they don't get it because it's not one of them retarded WIFOM, OMGUS, newbcard kind of arguments that they like so much.

So you can either a) give up; b) waste your vote by deathtunneling or c) use unconventional methods to lay bare said guy's scummyness.

Does lynching town make you scummier? Obviously. It's pretty much the scummiest thing you can do and always will be, no matter the trends. So what can be more useful in your endeavor to show others how scummy your guy is than your guys target flipping town? Do you get it now or do you not want to get it?

There were no downsides. If pen would've flipped scum.. fucking great, whether d3x was bussing or I was wrong about him all along. It's a win.
But pen flipped town and everyone who is still townreading d3x needs to get his head examined. Veteran players don't usually deathtunnel townies, especially claimed PR ones, unless they suck balls at this game, in which case they're a menace even as town. That's the fucking elephant in the room right now.

Do you get it now or do you not want to get it?

There were no downsides. If pen would've flipped scum.. fucking great, whether d3x was bussing or I was wrong about him all along. It's a win.
But pen flipped town and everyone who is still townreading d3x needs to get his head examined. Veteran players don't usually deathtunnel townies, especially claimed PR ones, unless they suck balls at this game, in which case they're a menace even as town. That's the fucking elephant in the room right now.

@NJ: I get it what you're saying. I even explained it as much. You think, 100% (70+30) that one of d3x or killa was/is scum both yesterday and today. What I was trying to get through to you is there is no way for you to know that. Pardon me if I don't take your word for it that d3x must be scum and I instead take my loooooooong history with him into account to get a read on him. I'm telling you now that there is very VERY little chance that d3x is scum. I've already explained why, now go back and read it.

@DGB: If RM flips scum, you're off the hook.

Ika is 100% town if RM flips scum. If RM is scum and was buddies with ika, he'd know that Alternate Account was replaced BY ika. As it stands, he's just trying to lynch people with larger wagons (DGB) or others with votes/wagons (ika). Scum don't often fully read games (I know I don't) and all they care about is lynching not scum. This is what I see RM doing. Wagon up bitches.

By the by, if you wanna see what a scum answer to a town question looks like, it looks like this:

I feel like this is a trick question. I'll take the money.

aww I wanted to see how long it would take him to realize that alt is ika now.

[dragonspawn]

And with that, I'll join that wagon.

vote PeaceBringer

So you haven't posted in a week and your "catchup" is letting mod know that he missed a vote and bandwagoning said vote. Yea, I'm pretty comfortable with my scumread on your slot.

you've just articulated why iai is moving back up my scum list.

[dragonspawn]

Garmr's slipping down even further into my scumreads. I agree that NakedJogger's case on d3x is lacking, but I do like his deconstruction of Garmr's case on him much better, and #777 is really just mudslinging and little else.

FoS: Garmr

.

So your willing to ignore a mud sling from naked jogger yet your willing to point out mine. Double standards?

maybe he is protecting his team mate?

[dragonspawn]

also IAI, have you read the WHY of the RM wagon?

Because he didn't realize ika replaced AA?

a bit more than that. The fact that he isn't paying attention to the game is just one issue we have had with him.

I'll take a look at your argument for peace

[dragonspawn]

idc about this game and im not replacing out thats what everyones getting away with nowadays right? fun suckers.

so why are you trying to draw a lynch?

[dragonspawn]

You guys are tunneling each other big time.

[dragonspawn]

I think pb does need further exploration but unlike my vote right now

[dragonspawn]

It has nothing to do with scum hunting and everything to do with getting us inflamed, confused, and divided.

[dragonspawn]

I'm losing interest in this game

well it kind of helps if you play.

[dragonspawn]

So?

it means you know he isn't scum And want to lynch him anyway.

and considering all hr has done is question and push you, it comes off as extremely scummy.

it also means you haven't really been scum hunting, just creating opportunities for scum to divide the town.

either way, it doesn't speak well for you. Gamr is town. Lynching him, even a policy lynch, would be stupid. It would only benefit the scum.

[dragonspawn]

I'm not sure he has a good reason

[dragonspawn]

Why do you like your vote where it is over a vote for nj?

because I'm still not 100% sold on him being scum while random is sending up red flags as scum. I figure I should go with my biggest scum read.

[dragonspawn]

@dragon- Would you be so kind as to state the cases on each, from your perspective?

I would when I have more time. Maybe I can get off my phone to be more detailed. But no guarantees when that will be.

[dragonspawn]

Only scum are in a position to speak absolutely with regard to alignment.

This is not strictly correct. I can think of several town power roles that can "speak absolutely with regard to alignment". Additionally, some people (I'm one of them) will call someone town or scum in an apparently absolute manner when it means nothing more than strong certainty. You have a point that absolutes do not really work in Mafia but I would not assign any more meaning to dragonspawn calling Garmr town than his being convinced that he is.

this is obvious to anyone thinking about it. Which makes me wonder why NJ is jumping to conclusions.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: randommidget

because he seemed to do yesterday is demand we rush a lynch on someone without actually caring who it was. Which of course avoids discussion and brings on the night phase.

Hey Dragon Spawn, when did you change your mind about me?

IAI and TDA are pushing the fact that there HAS to be scum in the hood, do you think this is valid.

Well, I don't think there has to be scum in the hood, but you were scummy anyway. It's just that it happened in the hood.

I'm pretty much ignoring those not voting or off the wagon yesterday as there are so many damn'ed people.

Scum avoid wagons on town, so this is silly.

Why aren't you voting me then?

I only get one vote.

i think she changes her reads in an unnatural way

and you thought that maybe you'd get her lynched yesterday without informing anyone of that fact.

At this point, if DGB is scum, bets are kid's a buddy.

Vote: Kid A

[/quote

Why on earth should we policy lynch ika so early in the day simply because he likes hammering L1 and when we have scum suspicions? It's fairly easy at his point to keep ikas hammering tendencies from causing problems. Dont put anyone at L1 until we want them lynched.

id much rather scum hunt than policy lynch at this point. Besides a PL let's the scum do nothing and move close to winning. Unless ika is scum for some reason. Did anyone read alt who he replaced as scum?

can we pretty please lynch this

ok, Kthx is solid Town. Nothing will change that... ever.

@Kthx- Kid A and midget are really high up on my list. Them Voting DGB in tandem make me less worried about her than I previously was. I have Jogger as VI. I'd have him as mostly Town if not for a few finer points {hypocrisy over his pen Vote being a main one}. I feel like ika's lolHammer was largely alignment neutral. You'd expressed intent to Hammer, so what would be the Scum motivation of jumping in there and dropping it? That Wagon wasn't going anywhere.

@Mod

- This game being flavorless, would you post a different Killing type if there were multiple Killing factions?

Vote:Kid A

this is the mafia vote on my wagon btw

I was wrong, kid a is town.

I still don't like those on DGB's wagon

why are you town reading dub?

I'm not interested i lynching Random Midget.

On an unrelated note, I'm not interested in reading the exchange between Garmr and NJ.

We could lynch Garmr, since I'm pretty sure he's doing all he can to make the game unreadable.

I haven't changed my mind about you at all. You are probably a poorly playing townie who would be a great policy lynch. But when you have scum suspects they get voted on prior to a policy lynch. Like what I said day one when I stopped voting for you. Nothing has changed since then.

[dragonspawn]

but maybe dragonspawn cause hero-complex.

I'm probably going to regret this, but hero complex?

[dragonspawn]

Food for thought everyone, a player votes 4 times D1, 3 different players.

Someone is then lynched, and their role is revealed.

A kill at night happens, another role is revealed.

Lots more information to use, yet this player goes thru all of D2 up to this point, 26 posts in all D2, still without a vote.

What is your take on that peeps?

that it's about time for a vote. Everyone should have suspicions on someone by now.

[dragonspawn]

I haven't changed my mind about you at all. You are probably a poorly playing townie who would be a great policy lynch. But when you have scum suspects they get voted on prior to a policy lynch. Like what I said day one when I stopped voting for you. Nothing has changed since then.

But at some point you thought I was scum, yeah?

Yeah but I decided scum wouldn't be so blatantly dishonest and draw as much negative attention to themselves

[dragonspawn]

I agree with ika. We have plenty of time.

I was asked for what i see the case on midget to be.

I'm voting for him because day 1 he was eager for a lynch and didn't have any care who it was. He has made several mistakes showing he hasn't been paying attention to the game and provided little in the way of substance they I've seen.

I don't have much time so I can't go more in depth

[dragonspawn]

We still have 5 1/2 days. There's still time.

VOTE: dragonspawn

I'll do a write up on this sometime soon, but long story short this is a

long

ISO. At 99 posts, dragonspawn has the third most posts in the game, only behind Garmr and TDA. He's one of the lowest impact players and smallest presences in the game, though, and it's by design. If you go look at the ISO, you'll see that it's really light on actual reads and almost never steps back to take a look at the bigger picture. The objective is apparently to maintain a high posting to productivity ratio. Most of the posts themselves consist of potshots at relatively minor details or lip service and rhetoric about broad philosophy that's not really applicable to the specifics of this game. The vote pattern and ebb and flow of the reads don't track well and don't make much sense from a town perspective (note: he was part of the mass migration from the TDA wagon to the killa wagon).

In short, I see a lot of scum motivation in dragonspawn's posting and not much town.

I can relate to this. He's not even voting atm.

I've been voting for random since the beginning of the day.

[dragonspawn]

Today I'm willing to lynch anyone on the RM wagon + dragonspawn, DGB and any lurker/no-reason-provider

^Ok naked explain to me why Random midget is town?

Since your willing to lynch anyone on him.

Strawman ahoy.

I said I'd compromise for a lurker/no-reason-provider and that's what RM is, nothing more nothing less. I'm estimating that if we lynch RM today and he flips town you're going to claim that people who provided less reasoning for being for or against his lynch are scummier than the ones who were on the extremes. That would be true if the lynched player has had sufficient material to base an accurate read on and wasn't a VI. As it stands d3x is scummy for deathtunneling pen and everyone on the RM wagon right now is scummy for blowing shit out of proportion about how scummy RM is supposed to be. It's deja-vu except RM is scummier than pen for the sole reason of having been on pen's wagon, but not much scummier because he seems to be noobish or not caring about this game. Which means what you're saying about him would be applicable if he had been invested in the game.

how is it a straw man when you just said you were willing to vote for anyone on the random midget wagon?

[dragonspawn]

Been busy I'll catch up later

[dragonspawn]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=38899

this is my only scum game with ika. He lurked.

if ika doesn't get vig'ed tonight, and I hope he does, we'll lynch him tomorrow.

My vote will be parked on him all day.

Apparently I have a few minutes right now....

No, it's stupid and trolly.....as I already pointed out in 1075

cool story bro. good thing IDGAF

what you going to to pussyfoot a vote on me or just continue to potshot me like you are now

I'm voting scum atm. Keep it up and tomorrow I'll work on getting you PL'ed.

@TTH: I've skimmed through his town games and though he does often post short posts, those were at least coherent with pretty clear intent behind them. Here is different. Yeah, you can say that since he liked his 1 scum game that he'd be more active here as scum, it's just theory. (p.edit: as you admit yourself in p1086...)

Scum on my wagon are pribably in NJ/dragonspawn/dgb.
If I get lynched please look at Nero, AA and dgb.
Iai, peacebringer, telltale, Ika and d3x are fairly confident town.
There is definitely scum pushing either mine or dgbs wagon. Whichever of us gets lynched examine the wagon tomorrow.

-For the final time, AA isn't even playing this game. I can't tell if you are trying to play dumb or you're really actually not paying attention to this game what-so-ever.
-Why aren't you looking into the players you want us to look at yourself? Why are the listed town reads town reads for you?
-

SCUM SLIP ALERT:

Last line of this post insinuates that DGB is positively town. Since the first sentence directly states for us to "look at" DGB if he get's lynched, it doesn't make sense for him to say that scum is pushing her wagon.

been reading through to see if I need to change anything or if my reads should be adjusted. This analysis is precisely why my vote is staying on rm.

also I'm feeling more confident about iai being town again with his last series of posts.

I cannot figure out why tda keeps pretending that I haven't explained why and when i shifted my vote from him to pen day 1 as I told everyone at the time why and repeated it the first time he asked today.

[dragonspawn]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=38899

this is my only scum game with ika. He lurked.

if ika doesn't get vig'ed tonight, and I hope he does, we'll lynch him tomorrow.

My vote will be parked on him all day.

how do you know there is a vigilante?

[dragonspawn]

@nero

Why don't you just vig ika then why are you so concerned about lynching him now over killing him at night?

don't want your scumteam to fuck with mt night action.

your night action? Are you claiming to be a vig now and why?

[dragonspawn]

dragonspawn and d3x

Dragon spaw is town and dex is probally town.

Are you calling dragonspawn town because he helped you gang up on TTA? This makes you and TTA look scummy.

first, who so TTA?

second, when did I gang up on him or her?

third, how would game and me ganging up on TTA make this TTA scummy?

[dragonspawn]

@telltaleheart I want you to read my posts from 1609 till now and tell me what you think.

Yes, it's you pushing the randomidget wagon and people voting it. randomidget's posting is nonsensical but I would expect nothing less from someone not reading the thread.

You keep trying to get me to bless this wagon, but I still think it's a craps shoot. I realize that if randomidget flips scum, it'll probably be my turn in the noose next but my opinion is what it is.

how do you figure we would be lynching you tomorrow when rm flips scum? Has anyone given any indication that they think you are scum? Is there an association between the two of you that we should know about?

[dragonspawn]

I will be pretty psyched if the scum are ika, dragonspaw and SC

then get used to disappointment

[dragonspawn]

@telltaleheart I want you to read my posts from 1609 till now and tell me what you think.

Yes, it's you pushing the randomidget wagon and people voting it. randomidget's posting is nonsensical but I would expect nothing less from someone not reading the thread.

You keep trying to get me to bless this wagon, but I still think it's a craps shoot. I realize that if randomidget flips scum, it'll probably be my turn in the noose next but my opinion is what it is.

how do you figure we would be lynching you tomorrow when rm flips scum? Has anyone given any indication that they think you are scum? Is there an association between the two of you that we should know about?

Spoiler: Relevant posts

I have a hard time believing that's a thing Scumika would do. Unless something drastic changes, ika is Town.

he's going to do this regardless of alignment.

SC, why do you have/had a town read on me?

Well, I don't think there has to be scum in the hood, but you were scummy anyway.

naw. You posted shit reasons for suspecting D3X. I didn't agree with your shit reasons. That's not scummy or buddying.

IAI, why do yu have a town read on RM?

I could be psyching myself out her but I'm starting to think IAI might not be scum but more in the morning.

follow up: sometimes I think players are intentionally scummy. I felt like

Next person to vote Nero, firebound, or nakedjogger, gets my vote there too.

was pretty scummy. I'll give him a few nights to eat a bullet but if not I want this dead.

Definitive reads or judgments about either d3x or TDA's alignments are completely absent and that is not what I would expect from someone who has an extra PT conversation going with them.

I mean, I've thought about it. I guess its not impossible that he's scum and posted a really really bad case on d3x and then ponced on me for not pouncing on d3x. If d3x is scum its NOT for the reasons presented by TDA.

They don't move as a block, which is what I would expect to see from 3 players who mostly trust each other who share a PT

yeah this doesn't happen. While yes, I've seen players that have agreed with each others reads but players agreeing on reads doesn't always happen and with a years worth of experience is quite baffling that you'd express skepticism.
OMGUS and stuff but I didn't like TTH's 1115. Her lite defense of IKA is strange too.

Why should I be suspicious of d3x?

What is your read and why on TDA?

RM, Ika are my preferred lynches but will join the DGB wagon.

Why not lynch Ika today and vig RM?

Is TTH scum once Ika flips scum?

Do you buy into RM's "scum slip"?

I just feel like his town games are so different. He's active and trolly. I do NOT think him being a crossreplace has anything to do with his activity. I think it has to do with his alignment.

Why do you think IAI is scum?

Should when lynch you if ika flips scum?

I'm not really seeing how Nero suggesting they if ika flips scum you should be suspected really affects what happens if random flips scum. Am I missing something?

[dragonspawn]

I'm not really seeing how Nero suggesting they if ika flips scum you should be suspected really affects what happens if random flips scum. Am I missing something?

I mixed up ika and randomidget in my head. The wagons are very similar and my opinions of them are identical.

thank you for the clarification.

[dragonspawn]

A little over a day and a half left of day two. What's left to discuss?

[dragonspawn]

The best defense for ika right now is the fact that he replaced alt and alt didn't seem scummy.

[dragonspawn]

*

Ignoring his neighbors.

I feel like there's very little reason to suspect either D3X or TDA beyond "OMG I'M IN A HOOD. LETS BE UNRATIONALLY PARANOID!" Even if there were scum in TDA/dx there's still 3 scum outside of the hood.

*

Case on IAI is skeletal.

My case on IAI is much better than his case on me. If you had such an issue with my case on him why are you just now bringing it up?

*

Lurker wagon votes are meh.

How is my thinking that Ika is lurking it out any different than you accusing DS and SC of active lurking?

how do you know there are four scum?

[dragonspawn]

Ika will hammer L1 regardless. I've seen him do it as scum. His hammering will not be useful in determining his role

[dragonspawn]

*

Ignoring his neighbors.

I feel like there's very little reason to suspect either D3X or TDA beyond "OMG I'M IN A HOOD. LETS BE UNRATIONALLY PARANOID!" Even if there were scum in TDA/dx there's still 3 scum outside of the hood.

*

Case on IAI is skeletal.

My case on IAI is much better than his case on me. If you had such an issue with my case on him why are you just now bringing it up?

*

Lurker wagon votes are meh.

How is my thinking that Ika is lurking it out any different than you accusing DS and SC of active lurking?

how do you know there are four scum?

Where do you get that Nero Cain (supposedly) knows there are four scum?

he said if there was scum in his hood we still had three more scum to go. I quoted it.

[dragonspawn]

If rm isn't lynched id rather see Nero lynched than ika at this point than ika.

[dragonspawn]

If rm isn't lynched id rather see Nero lynched than ika at this point than ika.

*Throws computer out window*

dang typing while throwing. Impressive

[dragonspawn]

I thought you were going to vig kill them

[dragonspawn]

no, im vigging you

well that's stupid.

[dragonspawn]

Why would I be scared of you?

and anyone paying attention would know I'm town. That's all you are getting right now.

[dragonspawn]

Oh hay it's Dragonspawn, who still hasn't explained when his read on me changed.

you know, simply repeating it again and again doesn't make it true. Especially when I explained it when I changed my vote and again the first time you asked. I know you like lying in this game, but you seriously need to start being serious or the scum will win

[dragonspawn]

I cannot figure out why tda keeps pretending that I haven't explained why and when i shifted my vote from him to pen day 1 as I told everyone at the time why and repeated it the first time he asked today.

LOL.
Let me be clear - at what post number did you change your mind.

yeah you can do your own homework. You've already proven multiple times that you ignore responses

[dragonspawn]

There's literally no town motivation for this sort of bs from dragonspawn.

because I prefer scum votes to policy lynches.

which is one of the reasons I dislike the ika wagon. It's a policy vote so scum can hide all they want on the wagon.

[dragonspawn]

I feel like you've been subtly Buddying me all game which is a bit odd considering our only other game together, we weren't exactly friends. You are in a 2man Neighborhood with dragon and have decided that there is a high percentage chance that our 3man Hood has Scum in it, but I don't feel like this has had any real impact whatsoever on your play. You've been a far cry from your play in the other game, but Hand Wave it whenever I bring it up. I don't feel like you've tried to engage with me in any meaningful way aside from mirroring my points or chasing my tail.

By the way, where have I tried to connect you to anyone besides Nero... just now?

I can have dragonspawn confirm I had hunch RM was scum in the night phase

he did

[dragonspawn]

I agreed. Btw. Hence why we are focusing on random.

[dragonspawn]

Not going to flash mob d3x when I'm still town reading him. Sorry.

[dragonspawn]

Well, we'd better figure something. By my count, the largest Wagon is now L-4 and No Lynch is weaksauce.

unoffical VC

randomidget (5): dragonspawn, d3x,Peacebringer, Garmr, StrangerCoug
Ika (4): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain, randomidget, Dripping Goofball
Nero Cain (3): Albert B. Rampage, I Am Innocent, Flubbernugget
d3x (2): TellTaleHeart, NakedJogger
Dripping Goofball (1): Kid A
Kthxbye (1): Ika
Not Voting - Kthxbye

@dragon- Do you agree with Garmr's assessment that there's at least one Scum between the 5 Neighbors? If so, why haven't you been acting on that, either? Who is your front-runner for the mantle? You're clearly TownReading Garmr and me.

@Garmr- Define "off the wagon", plz. Are you referring to the penWagon?

Nero prob. That's been a more recent decision for me. The 4 scum comment and his randomly claiming vigilante for no real reason irks me. And tunneling ika when I think we had more scummy choices.

I think random is scum. I haven't seen any reason to think otherwise. No reason to focus on anyone else more fully til he flips.

[dragonspawn]

@TT- Nero asked about connecting us. I said that I don't feel that it's realistic based on the necessary makeup of the Hood. You linked a game and we disagree on the implications of the makeup of those Hoods. In line with us disagreeing, I don't feel that it impacts the game here. Thus, it doesn't change anything from my perspective.

Well I don't really give a damn about "your perspective." You were telling me that the setup pretty much forbade you and Nero being scum together and my point is that's not necessarily so.

I completely agree with your assessment. I was once in a four person hood with three of the four scrum being in the hood. In fact one of the scum made a scum slip and I didn't push it because I wasn't thinking it was likely he was scum too. One of the reasons I'm looking at Nero closer now.

[dragonspawn]

I hate autocorrect.

[dragonspawn]

what's this internet crush you have on kthnxbye?

We made love one time and I'm that good.

I'm laughing like a madman here lol

[dragonspawn]

I vote for the 12 hr extension. Mostly because I don't think we will hit 9 for either otherwise

[dragonspawn]

Off and on I am

[dragonspawn]

Oh well. May as well. Your lucky random

VOTE: ika

[dragonspawn]

Didn't ika vote for himself as well?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: nero[\v]

It became obvious at the end of day 2 that Nero was fighting hard to hang Ika. It made me question why was he so adamant that he was scum when there was so little evidence.

Then near the end he jumps off ika. After going on about how he was going to see everyone who opposed the ika lynch hang. So in a hunch I jumped on ikea to see how he would flip. And he was scum.

So it occurred to me, what does scum do when one of their numbers plays so anti town that he is almost guaranteed to be lynched at some point? You lead the charge throwing them under the bus.

Add this with the scum slip of knowing how many scum are in this set up. The probability that someone in his hood is scum, it seems that Nero is scum.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: nero

[dragonspawn]

I still think Emily is a possible candidate for scum but I think Nero is more likely right now.

[dragonspawn]

That is supposed to say rm. The stupid autocorrect

[dragonspawn]

knowing how many scum are in this set up

you just confirmed it. How do YOU know that I'm right?

I still don't. That's the point. You were the one claiming to know.

[dragonspawn]

I'm assuming you probably are because I have little doubt that you do know because you are one of the remaining scum

[dragonspawn]

I'm assuming you probably are because I have little doubt that you do know because you are one of the remaining scum

Who do you think his buddies are?

Still working on that

[dragonspawn]

What's the case on Ika?

The case o Ika was that he was being deliberately useless and a waste of space.

Why would I bus a buddy when I could have easily gotten an RM mislynch?

town cred. Ika was a huge liability. He was highly likely to get lynched. Now your claiming to be town confirmed when it's nothing further

[dragonspawn]

Why would I bus a buddy when

I could have easily gotten an RM mislynch?

Can anyone guess why I quoted this (hint, it's bolded).

dang a second scum slip

[dragonspawn]

I still want explanation from Gamer and dragon

what exactly do you want explained?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: nero
Why didnt you vig me?

Why didn't you NK him?

He said he would vig me.

and yet you are still alive.

what's more he claimed to be vig and no one killed him. After he pushed for ika yo be lynched.

[dragonspawn]

explain what peace?

shift from your case on RM

I would think the fact that we had two flips, one of which being scum as well as now two scum slips from Nero would be explanation enough. While its possible rm is scum the newer evidence we have puts it into question. And the evidence for Nero is just overwhelming to me at the moment. Last time I ignored evidence like this I missed a scum and I won't do it again.

[dragonspawn]

Garmr is town. We both are. So you are right about us not both being scum

so kth is conf town. I'll have to make a note of that.

[dragonspawn]

I just have a town read on ds from stuff that goes on in the pt

Remind me what he's saying in the pt that's so totes town?

I gave him the secret town handshake whereby we became in stand town buddies.

and I sang him the town song.

[dragonspawn]

I seriously hate autocorrect on this phone.

[dragonspawn]

At this point I'm feeling confident that tth is town. Random is likely town too if Nero is scum.

[dragonspawn]

Because until I see you flip scum there is always the possibility that you are just a pretty bad player.

there is also the possibility that the second slip was intentional in an attempt to make Random look town when you flipped scum.

only a fool doesn't consider all possibilities.

[dragonspawn]

Do you really think the ika wagon was all town?

if not who were the bussers?

you at least.

[dragonspawn]

Scum Garmr town reads DS 'cause he knows its town but makes up some bunk about liking what he's saying in the hood.

No, no, no

I'm not sure he will figure it out. It's like talking to a brick wall.

[dragonspawn]

So now you're a cop and not a vigilante?

and you got a guilty on abr after investigating last night. And yet you voted for strange and I today because you forgot that you got a guilty result on abr.

and somehow dgb knows you were a cop before you claim anything and without you being in a neighborhood together.

we are supposed to swallow all this?

[dragonspawn]

Btw why on earth would you investigate abr when at the end of yesterday it was obvious you were suspecting me?

[dragonspawn]

I hardly see why someone who has made two scum slips, two fake claims, and claims to be obviously town for no reasons should be given a break for bussing his buddy.

and I still want to know how dgb somehow knew he was a cop. Because Nero didn't even seem to realize it til he suggested it.

[dragonspawn]

So you just happened investigate two people and get guilty both nights and yet during the days forgot.about them and voted for various people during the day.

and you also, as a cop, fake claimed. Yet somehow nailing a scum and claiming a power role didn't draw the scum to nk you.

[dragonspawn]

Was that a lynch?

I dont really have a high opinion of abr but why on earth are we lynching someone on the say so of someone who is so obviously lying?

[dragonspawn]

Oh well, I fully expect to be dead tonight as I was pushing to lynch scum Nero so hard. So if I am, it's been a fun game.

[dragonspawn]

Well lets see who you target tomorrow.

and when you stop showing yourself to be a liar maybe people won't be so negative

[dragonspawn]

All you get is the noose nero.

you know who is sure of someone being town...

I'm just sure Nero isn't.

[dragonspawn]

I'm voting Nero but I would prefer to see some interactions first.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: Nero Cain

'Nuff said.

Is it though?

[dragonspawn]

I have little doubt Nero is scum but shouldn't we be encouraging discussion in the hopes that his compatriots expose themselves?

[dragonspawn]

And how did you make him lie

[dragonspawn]

Nero preformed a gambit is scum and got a cop to expose self... clearly

Where did tth expose himself?

[dragonspawn]

Nero preformed a gambit is scum and got a cop to expose self... clearly

Where did tth expose himself?

In his responses... go look for yourself...

I didn't see any exposes. He did seem pretty confident about d3x and strangercougar though

[dragonspawn]

About to be Lynched? You mean L-5? You think they panicked at 3 Votes?

I think they panicked when he scum slipped a second time. They were expecting him to be confirmed town. At that point we were winning the argument that he was scum so I'm willing to bet he did to the cop gambit to see if they could catch someone. I'm not sure how they supposedly caught tell, I still haven't seen any slips by him.

I'm still not sure whether dgb is scum or not though. I'd like to hear an explanation for why he told Nero that Nero had a cop read on abr.

[dragonspawn]

Whether or not Nero is scum he is fucking ip this game and needs to go.

no. The only thing that I've done to "fuck things up" is believe DGB was softing an ABR guilty and was willing to run with it and try to fool scum into thinking that I was the cop.

and if that's true then we should look more at dgb.

unfortunately we won't know without a flip.

[dragonspawn]

Yes. RM should die.

Vote: Random midget

why? Because he hammered without realizing it?

so he isn't paying attention, we knew that all game. Yet it wasn't enough to suspect him earlier and now it is?

[dragonspawn]

Well Nero, you got what you wanted. If ABR doesn't flip scum I'm putting you on ignore for the rest of the game.

And if ABR does flip town, do not automatically go after Nero tomorrow. d3x and StrangerCoug are still scum.

Someone better unvote Nero right now, we are not having another short day like yesterday.

For those on neros wagon, why would Scum Nero NK TTH when she would obviously not vote him today based on above? Why not kill someone on his wagon from D3?

I still think Nero is town, this quick wagon + DS intent to join probably contains at least 2 scum. I will compare it to my vote analysis that I have at work and place a vote shortly.

I still think it is very likely that d3x may be scum. At least one neighbor is. Could possibly be garmr or DS tho too. I'd expect one scum to be on the flip side of this Nero case, could be him.

Srsly, if someone hammers I will auto vote them D5. Please someone unvote and let's have some discussion.

I will gladly hammer Nero when it's time. But I want lots of discussion before. We need analysis and a flash lynch will not help us catch the remaining scum.

[dragonspawn]

I can fix the pronoun issue for future posts

[dragonspawn]

Yes. RM should die.

Vote: Random midget

why? Because he hammered without realizing it?

so he isn't paying attention, we knew that all game. Yet it wasn't enough to suspect him earlier and now it is?

Who didn't suspect him earlier? I just can't fathom town being this anti-town. He would be the worst player in the history of mafia

tda didn't. Hence why I asked him why the change.

[dragonspawn]

WHAT ABOUT RM YOU FUCKS?! How could town hammer like that?

I do it all the time

when I play scum I loved when townies did that. Cause id get to run them up the next day.

[dragonspawn]

It seems to me that the anti Nero sentiment is that scum can't play this stupid. In my experience assuming this is just begging someone to come and prove us wrong.

I'd still love to hear dgb explain her part in yesterday's mismatch.

I would also like to know how tell supposedly revealed herself as a cop. I've been over her posts and I'm not seeing it unless sc or d3x is one of the scum and her persistence on pushing for them is why they got suspicious. And as has been mentioned she could only have made one investigation.

Nero still seems the obvious choice.

[dragonspawn]

That was supposed to say mislynch

[dragonspawn]

I've already said I would hammer when the time is right. I'm not there yet.

Nero since you are at L1 would you like to make another claim?

[dragonspawn]

Flubber might be but SC is town.

How do you figure?

[dragonspawn]

Why do you focus on how strong the supposed attack is?

It reflects intention.

We're lynching Nero anyway so what's the point of dramatizing at this point?

I'm not dramatizing, and I don't want to lynch Nero.

If there is scum in your hood, would you think d3x or Nero is more likely to be the scum?

[dragonspawn]

give me a case stronger than mine on RM and we'll talk

you have no case on RM, you have a supposition of there being 2 scum run up and one more powerful than another. It is a sketchy premise imo...

it's especially sketchy considering the person pushing the ika lynch was Nero. If he isn't scum, why would he have been pushing a lynch on ika to avoid a more powerful scum being lynched. It seems to me that in order for that scenario to be likely Nero has to scum.

I think it's unlikely that Nero and rm are scum I just don't see it happening.

[dragonspawn]

I think youve just reinforced my point Nero.

[dragonspawn]

that you suck at finding scum? I agree. Other than that I fail to see any "point"

I figured you out.

but as I said I find it highly unlikely that both rm and ika are scum with you leading the charge on ika while simultaneously making rm look innocent but implicating yourself. It's too contrived.

if you are scum rm likely isn't. And it doesn't make sense that you would be running ika up to save rm.

[dragonspawn]

Who else is being scummy?

randomidget and DGB. Depending on how IAI answers his question, he may be, but I actually want the answer before I pass judgment.

Why don't explain why this makes sense from scum me.

Because everybody wants to look town

Only scum want to look town. The rest of us are town.

[dragonspawn]

Garmr is still town.

I think it's unlikely that Nero is town. However, that particular response is in regard to the theory that both ikea and rm are scum and ika was run up because he was the goon and rm has some power role. Since Nero was the one pushing ika for that theory to work to work he would have to have been the scum pushing ikea. I think the probability of ika and rm being scum without Nero being scum as unlikely.

Nero still is the logical lynch today. Because his flip is going to tell us where we need to look for the rest

[dragonspawn]

Btw I agree. The idea that the hood you guys are in is all scum is not at all likely. It's a stupid move for scum to do. You never would have exposed a hood like that day 1.

1 of you likely. Two possible but all three? No way in hell.

D3x, out of your hood mates, which do you think is more likely to be scum.

[dragonspawn]

D3x, out of your hood mates, which do you think is more likely to be scum.

Well, that's an easy one. Garmr.

Garmr isn't in your hood.

[dragonspawn]

I figured you out.

you are free to say this as much as you want but it still won't magicly make my pm turn red.

TBH, I'm done with you 'cause your just going to push some derp case that I bussed ika when my actions surrounding RM and DGB make like 0% sense as scum.

Rm and dgb have absolutely nothing to do with you bussing ika. It was your desire to claim you were confirmed town that caused you to bus ika. And it's obvious that was your desire because when day 3 began you started declaring yourself confirmed town. No townie would do that when no one would doubt that a scum might bus an unpopular scum member.

Not to mention you've got two scum slips. Two fake claims and you haven't been night killed.

You tried to get town cred. When that failed you fake claimed cop to stay alive one more day and try to draw out the real cop.

Who exactly is a better scum choice than you at this point?

Ive seen enough at this point. I'm ready to vote. The rest of you can make your decision as you see fit.

Vote nero

[dragonspawn]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: naked jogger
100% gut, I am having a hard time trying to put a csse togrther but I think they are scum.

He's obviously town, so if you're town, stop it.

while I'm leaning town on him, how is he obviously town?

[dragonspawn]

Not really much of a conflict. You bussed your buddy to get town cred. You got caught and in order to avoid a lynch made a second fake claim so you could a) survive to the next day and b) come in today and make the argument that you're currently making.

The fact that you changed gambit doesn't make you less scum.

[dragonspawn]

@dragon- Gun to your head right now, is DGB Scum?

If Nero is scum probably not. But who knows.

All the more reason for me to push for a Nero flip. We need the information. Otherwise day five becomes more is Nero scum and not likely any other good info.

[dragonspawn]

Because I don't ignore scum tells and you have two of them as well as your presumption that you were confirmed town for the the bus.

Already explained it.

[dragonspawn]

I AM A NEIGHBOR HOOD COP. I investigated ABR last nigh. He is guilty. The next 4 votes on him get town cred.

That doesn't look like dgb to me

[dragonspawn]

interesting.

vote:ABR

interesting.

vote:ABR

Yep. Nice crumbing of your cop result.

VOTE: ABR

OK then let's lynch ABR.

No way ABR wouldn't be on this lynch like white on rice if he were town.

And you crumbed a guilty, AMIRITE?

VOTE: ABR

ABR is on my wagon already. No guilty crumb.

What do you think of DS?

ABR is on my wagon already. No guilty crumb.

What do you think of DS?

Yes you do. You crumbed a guilty on ABR.

Why would ABR missed out on yesterday's ika wagon? ABR goes from wagon to wagon like a crack ho in a drive in movie parking lot.

I'd vote SC! Like him, Flubber and ABR have been super useless this game.

Yeah, that, and you have a COP GUILTY on ABR!

you have a COP GUILTY on ABR!

my bad, i forgot

vote:ABR

I have a cop guilty on ABR, whats not to understand?

Nero can take a hint, can you?

yea. Should I full claim?

I AM A NEIGHBOR HOOD COP. I investigated ABR last nigh. He is guilty. The next 4 votes on him get town cred.

To be fair, I made him lie.

Still standing behind that theory, dragon?

What theory? We've both just quoted where he fake claimed

[dragonspawn]

It's hardly a weak argument. If it was he wouldn't have the biggest wagon at the moment.

And what does garmr need to say that hasn't been addressed?

[dragonspawn]

It's hardly a weak argument. If it was he wouldn't have the biggest wagon at the moment.

If all arguments were "good" this site would be mislynch free. What kind of fantasy world do you live in?

one with a hott red head. But that has nothings to do with this game.

[dragonspawn]

@dragon- You answer me and I'll answer you.

already did but you didn't like the answer so you are repeating the same question lots of different ways.

[dragonspawn]

nero's already screamed it out so I feel like there's no point hiding it. Me and Dragonspawn are masons. We've been trying to make it look like we were neighbors so we reach end game. But nero figured it out and had to scream to his scum buddies. So when tda listed me and dragon spawn as number 1 suspects we laughed at how bad and wrong he got it once we figured out his most likely a village idiot. So dex if nero or tda isn't scum that means you are scum. So who's scum in your hood dex.

there was no need to confirm it. If they didn't pick up on my dozen or so crumbs they didn't need to know. And when Nero flips scum I'm sure one of us will be dead tomorrow and they will know anyway. At least we could have kept most people from thinking it until at least tomorrow. Maybe the scum would have ignored us another night.

[dragonspawn]

if nero was town he wouldn't of shouted that out.

I tend to agree. Tth didn't.

[dragonspawn]

no, you guys are fucking horrible and I want scum to shoot ya'll. Once you two are dead this town will have a chance of winning. And now I know why Molie wants nothing to do with you.

more like you fully expect to be dead and needed to make sure your scum buddies didn't miss the freaking obvious

[dragonspawn]

But nero figured it out and had to scream to his scum buddies.

+ if I was scum I could have just told them last night but I guess your crazy tinfoil theory is that we have no chat and we just have to "wing it"

Plenty of reasons. Telltale was a more juicy target,you just figured out today and slow on the uptake or you were planning to try and get some town cred latter on.

Outing the masons if your town is stupid and I don't think your that stupid.

Also blaming your scum team and bagging them out in a private chat after the game in from your last game and not telling them to their face is pretty pathetic. You were copped and being scum read by everyone except me (I still managed to scum read most of your team successfully through) so that means you were being obvious scum to someone. The only reason I was willing to give you a town read that game is so we can get the sk lynched.

I think the more obvious reason is he didn't know last night.