Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)
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buldermar
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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I was thinking probabilistic equilibrium.In post 134, Titan wrote:It's like an infinite fractal recursion, a flickering quantum state of both scum and town.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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We can still evaluate historical wine consumption and estimate who the more likely to suffer from alcoholism is.In post 140, combinatorialEnigma wrote:Yes, but until the box is opened and we observe the cat, the only way to interpret it is that the cat is both alive and dead.
Similarly, until someone flips, we cannot determine who the wine is in front of.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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I don't see how it's a stretch. Care to elaborate?In post 144, Titan wrote:In post 141, buldermar wrote:
I was thinking probabilistic equilibrium.In post 134, Titan wrote:It's like an infinite fractal recursion, a flickering quantum state of both scum and town.
Eh, in a way? But not really b/c equilibrium means the two probabilities are balanced? Actually, that can make sense but it's a stretch. W/e I hate equilibrium anyways.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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+1
VOTE: DeasVail-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 619, DeasVail wrote:I don't really understand what was scummy about my vote on Vifam?
It's bad only in conjunction with the unvote.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 622, DeasVail wrote:Well it would've been useless to keep going with it, but ok.
In that case it would also have been useless to start it in the first place.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 626, DeasVail wrote:In post 624, buldermar wrote:In that case it would also have been useless to start it in the first place.
Maybe, but not necessarily. Vifam's response was probably the most null possible.Feel free to explain what you gained from your temporary vote on Vifam.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 633, Evanjalin wrote:In post 630, buldermar wrote:In post 626, DeasVail wrote:In post 624, buldermar wrote:In that case it would also have been useless to start it in the first place.
Maybe, but not necessarily. Vifam's response was probably the most null possible.Feel free to explain what you gained from your temporary vote on Vifam.
Nothing really, but Icouldhave.
Well actually no, this wagon me is quite luscious.Hi alt.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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I read this as: I'm really completely at a loss for how you figured out that I'm scum when this game is so stuffed with garbage. I'll just replace out as I'm embarrassed about giving away my alignment so quickly.In post 692, Paschendale wrote:I legit have no idea how you guys are finding me scummy here. I'm really completely at a loss for how you discern alignment out of a game so stuffed with garbage that nobody even looks like they're trying.
I'll just replace out and you guys can play with someone who understands how these big games work. And I'll probably avoid them in the future. They're not nearly as fun for me as I thought they would be.
Mod: I'd like to be replaced.
VOTE: Paschendale-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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We were at 14 before that unvote.In post 717, Titan wrote:It's 16 to lynch. We're no where near it. Think we're at something like 11 or 12.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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I dislike sushi. Have you ever skydived?In post 725, Robocopter87 wrote:I hate unofficial votecounts.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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Perhaps too freeing, should you be unfortunate.In post 729, Robocopter87 wrote:In post 726, buldermar wrote:
I dislike sushi. Have you ever skydived?In post 725, Robocopter87 wrote:I hate unofficial votecounts.
I've never tried sushi. Nor skydiving, though I've always wanted to skydive. I feel like it would be a very freeing experience.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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Inb4vid+rage.In post 736, combinatorialEnigma wrote:Oh sup Maenara.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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Why? My vote is where I want it to be.In post 756, Sunshine and Rainbows wrote:buldermar if you're town then you are literally cannon fodder, please make a post that isn't terrible and/or spam-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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You seem to be under the impression that I am more accountable for my vote because of already placed votes on Paschendale; this is incorrect.In post 757, ActionDan wrote:In post 711, buldermar wrote:
I read this as: I'm really completely at a loss for how you figured out that I'm scum when this game is so stuffed with garbage.In post 692, Paschendale wrote:I legit have no idea how you guys are finding me scummy here. I'm really completely at a loss for how you discern alignment out of a game so stuffed with garbage that nobody even looks like they're trying.
I'll just replace out and you guys can play with someone who understands how these big games work. And I'll probably avoid them in the future. They're not nearly as fun for me as I thought they would be.
Mod: I'd like to be replaced.I'll just replace out as I'm embarrassed about giving away my alignment so quickly.
VOTE: Paschendale
UNVOTE:
VOTE: buldarmar
That's a huge unsubstanciated stretch to make that vote on the fast growing wagon. There was more than one way to try to interpret that and you jumped to most damning narrative to give your vote some substance off of words like "embarrassed". If you had cared more on figuring out his alignment you'd have tried to be more cautious in both your diction and ultimate judgement.
This guy is scum. Please vote him.
There was indeed more than one way to try to interpret him asking to be replaced. Whether I jumped to the most damning narrative is a matter of opinion, but I did not try to give my vote substance off of words like "embarrassed", I sincerely think that should he be scum, this is a likely way to interpret it. However, I don't rule out the possibility of him not being scum. In fact, he's statistically more likely to flip town than scum in my opinion, even if he's the most likely person to be scum in the game.
Indeed, I could have been more cautious in my diction. In hindsight, that would probably have prevented your vote on me. I could have phrased the same intended message as "This could be read as: bla bla" I think it's likely enough that reading it this was is correct for me to vote him, bla bla.
Tell me, do you think it could not have been read the way I read it? If so, why not? Do you rule out the possibility of him being embarrassed about giving away his alignment so quickly (given the premise that he's scum, ofc.)? If so, why?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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I have a townread on Nacho. He's more inclined to provide reason for his vote when he's scum.
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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He's more concerned with making optimal votes than explaining them when he's town and more concerned with explaining his suboptimal votes (from town perspective) when he's scum. It's not clear-cut, but I do think it has statistical relevance.In post 767, DeasVail wrote:
PEdit: I wouldn't consider that particularly alignment-relevant in Nacho's case, but maybe you're right, I don't know.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 771, Nachomamma8 wrote:Unvote, Vote: combinatorialEnigma
If I explain myself now, then I'll ruin everything that I'm trying to do right now and will have to playconventional. Which, quite frankly, would just be disgusting.In other words, you explaining yourself entails at least in part answers to my questions. Thank you.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 774, malpascp wrote:Modkill?You're not allowed to claim scum?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 776, malpascp wrote:You are not allowed to play against your win condition.What makes you think I am playing against my win condition?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 780, malpascp wrote:You claimed scum 10 minutes ago. The hell you are going to unclaim. And stop posting red.
Getting yourself killed is against your wincon. I've seen it happening. Unless you are a freaking jester.What makes you think I'm more inclined to make this claim as scum than town? Why do you not want me to unclaim? What do you have against red?
What gives you the impression that I'm getting myself killed?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 785, malpascp wrote:P-Edit x2: explain to me why did you claim scum. Now.Because I'm scum. Why on earth would town claim scum?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 786, malpascp wrote:And stop posting red.Why?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 790, DeasVail wrote:Buldermar, why aren't you unclaiming?For reasons I cannot disclose at this time. Ask Nacho, he'll give you a list.-
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In post 791, malpascp wrote:Die. DeasVail gave you the chance to unclaim and you didn't. Nice play.
P-Edit: gotta love it.Love is in the air, I can feel it everywhere.-
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In post 796, Sunshine and Rainbows wrote:Oh good we got a fuckin comedian on the field.You must be the comedian talent scout, then. Pleased to meet you.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 797, Sunshine and Rainbows wrote:And if you feel like actually playing mafia you can go back to being 'townie' and lynching people. Otherwise vote yourself and wait for the modkill.I've noticed that you are fond of snide remarks. Is that a requirement as a comedian scout or is it part of your personality?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 799, DeasVail wrote:Nacho, I have seen town claim scum in RVS and stuff like that, but not as Buldermar did under pressure.I don't recall being under pressure. Are you sure that you're not retrospectively making this up unconsciously to justify your initial vote on me? Memories can be quite dynamical in that regard.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 804, malpascp wrote:Drowning in my tunnel? This guy claimed scum. Asked for the chance to unclaim, got it, and rejected it. And then confirmed himself as scum again. I bet you won't find anything, and yes, even if you do, I won't unvote. The only person that can say something to make me unvote buldermar is himself. Deal with it (or vote him, whatever).What would I have to say to make you unvote me? I'd like to be precautious so that I don't end up saying it by accident.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 809, Nachomamma8 wrote:buldermar, can you please tell malp that you were claiming scum in order to get reactions from people so he unvotes you? it's fun to be obstinate and a bit of an ass, but it's not effective unless you learn to play damage control after.I think it is a bit anti-town of you to effectively lower my odds of getting useful reactions from people by explaining my motive when there is merely one person voting me and 16 required to get lynched. L-15 hardly requires damage control. What's your incentive to do this?-
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In post 813, Sunshine and Rainbows wrote:Please get vigged. What you are doing is distracting people from playing the game.
I will be especially pissed off if your red text bulb shit distracts from the beautiful Pasch wagon that will greet his replacement. And I am fond of snide remarks because sarcasm is the only language I speak and the only thing that keeps me sane with people like you around.Maybe we're not playing the same game. I'm the guy getting reads from having people react to my posts - you must be that other person.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 812, Pandorica wrote:In post 803, buldermar wrote:Alright, I have a townread on DeasVail now for two reasons:
1) I think he'd be more likely to postpone voting me to see reactions from other players first had he been scum.
2) I think he'd be less inclined to unvote me so rapidly had he been scum.
I don't really know if either of these things are true. I kinda think he 'should know better' than to put the vote down in the first place.I'll rephrase. I think he's more inclined to "know better" when he's scum.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 818, malpascp wrote:Just answer my question: why did you claim scum? And why are you implying that you don't want me to unvote you?I claimed scum because I'm scum and I implied that I don't want you to unvote me because I'm actually a Jester claiming scum to get lynched. Why else would I claim scum whilst implying that I want to get voted?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 834, Porfervor wrote:In post 832, buldermar wrote:In post 818, malpascp wrote:Just answer my question: why did you claim scum? And why are you implying that you don't want me to unvote you?I claimed scum because I'm scum and I implied that I don't want you to unvote me because I'm actually a Jester claiming scum to get lynched. Why else would I claim scum whilst implying that I want to get voted?
it's too late to claim WIFOM now idiotCan I still unclaim, though?-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 842, Nachomamma8 wrote:In post 821, buldermar wrote:In post 809, Nachomamma8 wrote:buldermar, can you please tell malp that you were claiming scum in order to get reactions from people so he unvotes you? it's fun to be obstinate and a bit of an ass, but it's not effective unless you learn to play damage control after.I think it is a bit anti-town of you to effectively lower my odds of getting useful reactions from people by explaining my motive when there is merely one person voting me and 16 required to get lynched. L-15 hardly requires damage control. What's your incentive to do this?
I don't care about today's lynch, that's not the damage I'm referring to.
If you go on too much longer and ACTUALLY make a big deal out of this like you totally can, then the vig's hands will be tied in having to shoot you in order to free up some stubborn town voters (there will be a lot of them, trust me), which means that if the vig is even sort of a decent player you take away a town-controlled kill for the night when you could have just played normally and not caused a shit storm. In addition, you're going to create discussion that is essentially useless for the next 10 pages because you are SO edgy and SO unconventional and my god people just won't be able to resist your crazy antics. I've gotten three good reads from this business and only needed to read a page to get both of them; more pages might offer a couple more, but we won't get much more than that. Instead people will get frustrated because this is the type of thing people feel strongly about, and they will band together and ignore anything that you or I will say for the rest of the game, which is *probably* a bad thing. Having super polarizing D1s can be good when it's an X vs X situation, where each wagon is headed by people who are generally town and feel strongly about the wagon they are pushing, but it is bad when it's X or not X because instead of two viable scum candidates, there will probably only be one, and with things being multiball and scumbags feeling less obligated to bus scum will be harder to catch so things will probably end in a mislynch and then you get vigged and then two sane people will be killed by scum and that's not the sort of start I would like to have.Ok, I'm convinced. I think I may already have recruited one or two stubborn town voters, though. I honestly can't seem to comprehend why people feel so strongly about this type of thing, which is why I sometimes feel like I'm playing a different game than most other people (you may be an exception). What matters is not always what's said, but somtimes how what's said affects the alignment of the writer, and I don't understand why the second part is so frequently being overlooked.
/unclaim-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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One of you are voting me. Hint: it's not you.In post 851, Porfervor wrote:We're not even voting you.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 867, Robocopter87 wrote:Am I done lurking yet?No, come back once you've tried skydiving and tell me about it.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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In post 872, Robocopter87 wrote:In post 869, buldermar wrote:In post 867, Robocopter87 wrote:Am I done lurking yet?No, come back once you've tried skydiving and tell me about it.
You realize that unclaiming is not a real thing, right?
You should also realize that claiming scum is ridiculous.
Also realizing that the red is ridiculously annoying.
At this point, it should be entirely obvious to everyone to ignore buldermar. Hes clearly anti-town but not scum.
If people have already come to this conclusion then cool, I skimmed.
Whoever said I should be vigged should be vigged themselves.
Whoever wanted buldermar to die once he claimed is quite scummy, and honestly Nacho said that Pasch was town so I'm clearly not doing anything right.
Whoever said that I was just trying to have fun is just pretty much right on the money.
So according to all this I agree with the DV lynch.
UNVOTE: Paschendale
VOTE: DeasVailUnclaiming is just as real a thing as claiming is. If you acknowledge the premise of claims, you're automatically also acknowledging the premise of unclaims - they are sides of the same logical coin.
Why is claiming scum more ridiculous than claiming town? In reverse land, claiming town would be the ridiculous thing to do and since this is a game of WIFOM, reverse land is very real.
I think you need to explain why red is annoying.
I think it is anti-town of you to suggest that people ignore me. I also think it is incorrect to state that I'm anti-town.
I don't think whoever wanted me to die once I claimed is scummy. I think more often than not it means that the person isn't very knowledgeable.-
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buldermar Mafia Scum
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I sincerely disagree on this matter.In post 881, ActionDan wrote:As to the questions; No, he's not replacing out because he's embarrased he was found out as scum even if he were scum. That would require a level of dignity unfit for a human being that I am not prepared to ascribe to paschle. If he's replacing out, it's because he means what he says, that he has no idea why there's a large wagon on him for reasons he can't fathom, which imo is null (although the way he said it makes me lean town on the slot and makes me adverse to lynching it in general).-
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In post 945, Cheery Dog wrote:In post 939, Porfervor wrote:specifics idiot, im trying to actually gauge a read out of you
If I actually had names to give you, I wouldn't be voting the person that claimed scum.
I guess I can give you people I'm reading null.- some of these may have slight town points, but not enough to be removed from this list. and I'm not actually sure about all the hyrdas, but I guess they are safe for now.
2. combinatorialEnigma
3. Nachomamma8
4. AurorusVox
5. Alduskkel
7. malpascp Strider
9. Paschendale
12. buldermar
13. Phillammon
15. ActionDan
16. SoraAdvent
17. Maenara GaryOak
21. BroodKingEXE
22. ζ (lowercaseZeta)
24. Guy_Named_Riggs
26. Nikanor
27. numberQI lol'ed.-
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In post 958, xtopherusD wrote:and deduced that DeasVail (or the other one?) is probably scum for what he did.This is incorrect. I deduced that they're probably town.-
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In post 999, torgonitoh wrote:Evanjalin - 1 - who is this mans????????///If you had been reading the game you'd know it's an alt of DeasVail.-
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In post 1014, xtopherusD wrote:The issue is the deduction, and the way you went about achieving it.Could you quote the part you find problematic?-
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In post 1017, xtopherusD wrote:And you did a quick and dirty 90 minute fish that caught you a single suspected Town read.I got at least two strong town reads that I already mentioned. You must not be reading the game closely - don't fault me for that as well.-
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You voted meIn post 1018, Cheery Dog wrote:In post 1016, buldermar wrote:I just realized that Nacho who was recently voted by Cheery Dog is also on the infamous null list. Hilarious.
Did you also notice that I said I didn't have any true scumreads at the time of posting the null list? Yeah that helps.
And I voted you at whatever that time was because
1. You had claimed (and unclaimed) scum, I have no idea why you were doing this.
2. The whole conversation at the stage was putting you in bad light.
3. You using red font is annoying.
3a. This is because I am used to all players using black.
3b. When used in large quantities it makes reading more annoying.
3c. It looks awful when quoted and annoys my eyes even more when I switch from reading black>red>black>redwhile having me on your list of nulls.
1. is a fallacious reason that does not reflect alignment.
2. is a matter of opinion, you'll have to elaborate.
3. is a fallacious reason and utterly unrelated to my alignment.
3a. I don't care what you're used and not used to.
3b. that's a matter of opinion.
3c. your eyes must not be functioning properly. I'd advice you to get them checked.
My turn:
1. you neglected commenting on the fact that you voted me while having me on your list of nulls
2. you've not listed a single reason for voting me that is related to alignment estimation
You're scum scum scum no matter what, it's posts that you make you can never make enough. And every time you make them, your scumminess goes up.... and it stays there!-
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In post 1026, ActionDan wrote:In post 1009, buldermar wrote:
I sincerely disagree on this matter.In post 881, ActionDan wrote:As to the questions; No, he's not replacing out because he's embarrased he was found out as scum even if he were scum. That would require a level of dignity unfit for a human being that I am not prepared to ascribe to paschle. If he's replacing out, it's because he means what he says, that he has no idea why there's a large wagon on him for reasons he can't fathom, which imo is null (although the way he said it makes me lean town on the slot and makes me adverse to lynching it in general).
Ok, but you haven't given auxillary reasons for believing Paschle is scum. You used that post as evidence for a vote, but the most you're opinionating on is that if Paschle were scum he'd hightail it in shame. Without getting to the "Paschleisscum" it's merely circular logic. You haven't said why his post is more likely to be shamed scum then frustrated town.It's only circular logic to the extent that it's a matter of opinion, which is why I only commented on the fact that I disagree on the matter. I can't provide a reason for considering him leaving in this manner scummy aside the fact that my opinion is thatI consider him leaving in this manner scummy.There is no global scum/town scale on which to measure action, which is why everything (with the obvious exception of votes) boils down to opinions, WIFOM and what you refer to as circular logic in the end. I'm beginning to think that you're intentionally being obtuse as I give you credit for understanding the point I'm making.
In a similar vein, I could ask you the following: why do younotconsider him leaving in this manner scummy aside the fact that your opinion is that youdo notconsider him leaving in this manner scummy?-
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In post 1028, Robocopter87 wrote:In post 1008, buldermar wrote:Unclaiming is just as real a thing as claiming is. If you acknowledge the premise of claims, you're automatically also acknowledging the premise of unclaims - they are sides of the same logical coin.
Why is claiming scum more ridiculous than claiming town? In reverse land, claiming town would be the ridiculous thing to do and since this is a game of WIFOM, reverse land is very real.
I think you need to explain why red is annoying.
I think it is anti-town of you to suggest that people ignore me. I also think it is incorrect to state that I'm anti-town.
I don't think whoever wanted me to die once I claimed is scummy. I think more often than not it means that the person isn't very knowledgeable.
1. Except for the fact that it isn't. Have you ever seen anyone "unclaim"?
2. Because claiming town is the whole mentality of the game, while claiming scum ALWAYS drives the faction you are a part of downhill.
3. My eyes. Use a darker red. Or get this, don't use any color at all.
4. You claimed scum, you need to be ignored. You clearly aren't helping anybody, and thus you should be ignored. However lately you've thrown a lot of content. So I guess you can be noted. Don't pull anymore idiot moves, though.
5. This is a large game, and as such I expect each and every player to know what they are doing. If they know what they are doing and do something wrong then they shall take damage for it. I play the newb card for no one.
In post 1002, Phillammon wrote:I have to add myself to the torg is awesome pool. Also, that's some pretty solid analysis there. Not got long, but: Pash's replacing out feels like a scum reaction to me, Cheerydog looks like scum trying to look town rather than genuinely town, and Nacho is looking very town over the last few pages.
You are being incredibly worthless.
Cheery now deserves twice as much rope.1. Yes
2. This is incorrect.
3. I'll consider picking a darker red.
4. This is fallacious reasoning. Also, claiming scum is not an idiot move.
5. You're delusional if you presume nobody to be new just because this is a large game - maybe evenespeciallybecause this is a large game.
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