In post 402, Madoka wrote:♡ I am town reading HEM. He is playing in an easy going way and does not seem to care too much about players being town read. In the previous game he pushed for players pretty hard so as to avoid being PoEd. He was also very LAMISTy and he does not appear to be making an effort to appear town here. My negatives are that his friendliness and jovial character is making me feel weird because of the stark contrast with his previous play. It does make me wonder if he is trying to be so different from the last game, that he is town read by meta. @Holden, did scum HEM in your last game play similarly to Blitz I? Or did he change up his style? Do you think his play here is within the realm of being deliberately different? Another thing that is weirding me out is how he keeps addressing Shiki. But I think the most suspicious part of HEM's play was his read on the George situation. George simply was not scummy there, and HEM portrayed everyone else's read of the situation as coming from meta, but I do not think that was the case except for Shiki. I suppose this, along with the way HEM has been addressing Shiki, could be explained if they are in a neighborhood and Shiki expressed her meta view of George privately.
♡ I have a town impression of George. His reaction to the masons claim appeared natural and fluid. My only negative is that his play is different than the previous Blitz. That does not provide enough data, however, for this to greatly impact my read. Oh, I also was not fond of his HEM read. George agreed that everyone's view of him came from meta, but again, I do not think that was true. He just looked townie from the situation.
He is more involved. In the previous, he was quite lurky.
In post 506, Madoka wrote:♡ George has made some really innocent seeming posts, but he also seems to be making a lot of posts that read as TMI. In particular, his read of shiki and his read of Holden. He made a post saying that he thinks the reason holden is playing differently here is because of the pace. I think this is a strange opinion to have considering the last game they played together was also a blitz game... I think George is currently my strongest suspect.
In post 508, Hoctac wrote:Madoka, why do you put so much stock into people doubting our masons claims to as being towny - especially with regards to the monkey? Is in not possible scum would transparently question us if they actually had doubts of a gambit, since they want to kill more optimally in the night?
I do not believe I am. I think George had the the towniest reaction to your claim. My reasoning for town reading HEM is independent of what he thought about your claim. I think the way Holden treated it, however, was scummy because of how long he spent theorizing about your motivations. It was a waste of time for something that would be cleared up on its own.
In post 519, Umlaut wrote:Can you point to what GeorgeBailey has said or done that led you to consider him actively engaged in the game?
He is just more active than he was in the previous Blitz. I do not think this is particularly alignment indicative. I simply mentioned it in the process of sorting my feelings.
In post 543, Madoka wrote:♡ George making HEM vs Hiraki as only T v S is really scummy.
I think lynching Datisi, George, and Hiraki in that order wins it.
Well, first of all I just have trouble believing Madoka is scum at all and manages to post the way she does. But putting that aside, she very clearly had GeorgeBailey in her scumlist and would have had no difficulty voting him, or at least putting him at intent since he was L-1. Given how much reason Datisi had given for scumreading George at this point, I kind of think if she were just scum looking for a lynch she would go ahead and vote or at least intent George right then and there rather than play around, but I don't put high confidence in that hypothetical. But at any rate if there was scum dancing around and flirting with this wagon I'd say it wasn't her.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
Okay now I'll read these 400,000 posts that were made while I was composing these
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
In post 649, Hiraki wrote:yep totally doing it on purpose, no one else saw it
A genie tells you I'm town. Who do you think is the scum team?
The other two wishes are to tell me who is scum so I can win the game. The genie tells me back that he lied about the first wish and I get it back.
Good dodge of the question btw. You sure haven't done that move anywhere before.
In post 663, Umlaut wrote:Since absolutely no one asked what Hoctac and I discussed in the nhood, here's a fairly comprehensive summary. Nothing super useful that I can see, but I want to be transparent now. I'm highlighting parts that talk about our reads on other players specifically in case you don't want to wade through a bunch of inconsequential posts.
Spoiler: This is kind of long
Pregame
1-5: "oh hey, it's you"-style chatter
6: I asked Hoctac if there's more to his role
7: he claimed Miller Watcher (bcuz Hoctac)
8: I side-eyed the claim but said if he was serious and was town then I could blatantly soft a PR and he could watch me (but really if he had stuck with the claim I would have just disbelieved it and likely voted him day 1)
9: Hoctac retracted the claim but suggested what we actually did, saying either one of us would get shot instead of a real PR or else one of us was scum
10-11: I went along with it and specified "you just lolclaim and I'll come in and get pissy about it"
12: Hoctac said he was looking forward to it
Day 1
13-15: we agreed to probably back off talking about the claim because continuing to talk about it would make it more dubious
16: I said as long as we never actually deny it outright scum will probably work on the assumption it's true
17: Hoctac said people don't seem to be buying it
18: Hoctac said Datisi's naked vote might be trying to force a full claim (I assume this was about 118)
19: Hoctac said I was seeming kind of scummy to him and asked why I had no reads on anyone
20: I said I'd been distracted from the game
21-22: Hoctac said okay and that he was doubling down
23: I said also I've been kind of so worried about keeping up appearances with the claim that I forgot to scumhunt
24: Hoctac lol'd
25: I said I think HEM hard-disbelieving the Mason claim is towny
26: Hoctac agreed re. HEM, said Datisi was pinging him, and that he was having trouble reading shiki
27: Hoctac said shiki's takes have been pretty good since 70
28: I asked if Hoctac thought what he was seeing scummy in me was what HoldenGolden was seeing, because I was mildly pinged by his push on me but not if the post really was suspicious from an outside perspective
29: Hoctac just said HG's reasoning for that push was weak (this kind of bothered me since it didn't really answer the question I asked)
30: I said I didn't want to post in the main thread until we talked about whether to retract the claim or double down again
31: I wrote out pretty much the thoughts I eventually shared here in 230, except I added that I'm pretty sure Hoctac is town because the Datisi push and his way of presenting it appeared like genuine sorting to me
32: I said HEM's suspicions of HG also seemed genuine to me, but so did HG's responses
33: I told Hoctac if he didn't get back in two hours I was just going to confess our real roles
34: [Question for the mod]
35: I gave a readlist: HEM and Hoctac town, HG probtown, GeorgeBailey scum, idk about everyone else
36: Hoctac reappeared and said let's go all in, also said he didn't really buy that HEM would think backtracking now is "not AI" but doing so later would be, and that HEM could be scum who just really needs to know for sure that we're masons and wanted to confirm it
37: Hoctac said HEM's progression on HG felt unnatural to him, that he townleans shiki, and that my reasons for scumleaning her are just how she plays
38-39: Hoctac liked Madoka's read on Datisi, liked Holden for town but wanted to meta-dive his scum game
40: I confirmed I was going all in, said I would be super salty if Hoctac was scum
41: Hoctac said he probably
wouldn't
be salty if I was, since this was all his idea
42: [Answer from the mod]
43: I asked Hoctac why he said he wanted to end the day in 43
44: Hoctac said it was a joke
45: Hoctac said George had an unwilling-to-offend tone to him that might be scum
46: Hoctac pointed out shiki was dead-on about the mason gambit
47: Hoctac pointed out scum might have information from their own roles that would let them genuinely doubt a mason claim
48: Hoctac said this is why HEM's doubt was not necessarily as town-indicative as I thought
(though in retrospect given that there really are masons scum couldn't possibly have 'known' there weren't)
49: I said shiki's accuracy was awesome yet annoying, and that I was getting paranoid of a scum!Hoctac killing me to "clear" himself as town
50-51: Hoctac said he hadn't thought of that, also said it was kind of towny of me to consider it now
52-53: Hoctac jokes
54-55: I said I wanted to see if Hiraki retracted his suspicion after HEM explained the misread, and if not then I wanted us both to further pressure him on that and see if he flinches (spoiler: he didn't)
56: I said one of us could also raise the point that HEM eventually changed his mind about pushing the mason claim, and see if someone like e.g. Hiraki jumps on it,because it's a weak point and pushing it further could be scum-indicative
57: I acknowledged Hoctac's 47
58: Hoctac said he was raising the point I brought up in 56
59-67: banter
68: Hoctac said he was unsure how to take Madoka's accepting the mason claims at face value and that it didn't seem like her, but maybe she had more suspicion than she was letting on
69: Hoctac asked how I was reading him
70: I said probtown but asked why it mattered
71: I said we should try and gamesolve during the night so if one dies the other can share their thoughts
Night 1
72: VOICE OF MOD:
73: Hoctac said he's not confident I'm town but agreed to work on solving at night;
Hoctac said the hammer looked really scummy (for the reasons I've shared in this thread) and thought maybe Datisi feared people would be convinced by Madoka's case and wanted to end the day asap
74: I said good point
75: I said Hiraki's "don't townread me for that" in 319 caught my eye because I have seen scum players attempt to get towncred for refusing a townread and I was trying to figure out if this was an example of that, and that while this didn't seem to quite fit that pattern it was still stuck in my head
76: I complained about not feeling great
77: I said HEM and Madoka are the towniest towns to me, and if we can convince ourselves HG is also town then we can just lynch everyone else to win
And then it was Day 2
yellow is a terrible highlight
In post 664, Madoka wrote:I honestly do not know how everyone else (shiki) knew the mason claim was not legitimate. Her IQ is too high (or it is a knowledge slip from being Umlaut's partner).
So shiki - easily the most calculated person in the game who metadives on everyone - knowledge slips on D1? Nope, not buying it. Not even a little.
In post 671, Umlaut wrote:To rule out the all-town possibility I want to read through and see if there was any of {HEM, Madoka, shiki} were either null or inconsistent or wishy-washy on GeorgeBailey, because even if they would prefer to stay off a mislynch I'd think scum would want to leave open at least the possibility of self-consistently voting for him if it was necessary to push the wagon over the edge. If not then Hiraki is pretty much definitely scum afaic.
??? this doesn't make sense
In post 690, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Who said I stopped? My lynch order is Umlaut and Hiraki, and it's increasingly getting obvious that Hiraki isn't trying to case my slot in good faith.
you literally said this last game - i don't need to repeat my points ten times but maybe eleven will work
In post 671, Umlaut wrote:To rule out the all-town possibility I want to read through and see if there was any of {HEM, Madoka, shiki} were either null or inconsistent or wishy-washy on GeorgeBailey, because even if they would prefer to stay off a mislynch I'd think scum would want to leave open at least the possibility of self-consistently voting for him if it was necessary to push the wagon over the edge. If not then Hiraki is pretty much definitely scum afaic.
??? this doesn't make sense
The point I'm making here is, if you're town and I'm town, then GeorgeBailey was an all-town mislynch. I don't believe scum are willing to trust an all-town mislynch to actually go through, in which case there would have to be a scum off the wagon who was prepared to jump on if need be to secure the lynch. (On further reading I've decided that if there was such a player, it was HEM, as I detail in my followup posts)
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
I mean, not quite, I still need to actually decide that you're town, and I haven't figured out how to do that yet.
(Flipping you seems like one good way but maybe you have a better suggestion)
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
actually im tired so ill just do it quickly, there is actually a lot of evidence of an all-town george bailey lynch and that scum were trying to stay off the wagons. i am pretty confident that the scum are off the wagon rather than on the wagon at this point
HEM has basically no excuse to not jump on george considering his involvement and knowledge of why i changed my vote at the end and his prior comments on george being so wishwashy
In post 156, Umlaut wrote:I have never, ever fakeclaimed as town and I have gone on record as saying it's pretty much always anti-town to do so. Feel free to through my games and confirm. I'm telling you I'm a mason with Hoctac. So either you think I'm a mason with Hoctac, or you think I'm scum and probably he is too.
ohh. hoctac is hectic. in that case, i am quite certain that hoctac thought umlaut was mafia as well. this:
In post 501, Hoctac wrote:No, shiki, it's in the same view as the murder mystery conspiracy.
is referring to this post by hectic in mystery box hate:
In post 277, Hectic wrote:There's something that really intrigues me about this game; it feels more like some kind of murder mystery and less like a mafia game.
which i thought was referring to a game called muskoka murder mystery as i discussed in my neighbourhood from mystery box here:
one of the posts made by the player that replaced super mario's slot in the murder mystery game contained a typo (mt instead of my) that read as though it was giving a read of one of the players in mystery box (morning tweet) that hectic wanted to communicate under the radar.
which is an accusation by dsjstr of his neighbour, ame. if applied to the situation of this game, i believe hoctac was confirming that i had correctly deduced that he was in fact a neighbour (and lying about his role, as he did in mystery box also) and conveying to me his read of umlaut in case he died in the night.
I'll actually be very curious to find out post-game if this is really what was going on, because at no point do I think Hoctac was really townreading me, and the timestamp of those messages you are referring to are right around the time he made his post #65 in the neighborhood, which I just filed under "joking" in my summary but where what he literally said was, if I'm scum, I should go ahead and kill him for the towncred.
So I actually am willing to believe Hoctac was doing exactly what you say he was doing, and just misread me.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
In post 732, Hiraki wrote:actually im tired so ill just do it quickly, there is actually a lot of evidence of an all-town george bailey lynch and that scum were trying to stay off the wagons. i am pretty confident that the scum are off the wagon rather than on the wagon at this point
I get that you're tired. Once you get some rest can you come back and point to this lot of evidence more explicitly?
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
No, I admit I'd have to jump to George at that point. I kinda have no choice. I was on Hiraki's wagon at 2 votes and there was no one else wanting to lynch him. It's deadline, and we needed a lynch. Not that I wanted to lynch him, but we needed to flip something. Datisi just jumped the gun and hammered him first. If someone were to talk to me, I would have given intent.
What I see here is forcing a false dichotomy that lynching GeorgeBailey = bad. I don't think that's true. Gamestate forced us to a single wagon. That's what needs analysis.
Also Hiraki, I'm not the first one to ignore questions from the two of us.
hmm i'm feeling kinda demotivated for this game atm
does someone wanna real time sell me on something?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 736, humaneatingmonkey wrote:What I see here is forcing a false dichotomy that lynching GeorgeBailey = bad. I don't think that's true. Gamestate forced us to a single wagon. That's what needs analysis
I mean it's "bad" in the sense that it was a mislynch, but I don't think voting for what in retrospect was a mislynch is inherently suspicious if that's what you're saying. There is a little more nuance to the argument than that.
I could vote Hiraki but there are some things I need to figure out first, like whether a Hiraki+HEM team is even possible (because if it's not I might even want to vote shiki as the PoE-d second scum with either one of them).
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
But that said I'm pretty sure at least one of {Hiraki, HEM} is scum which means I'll have to pick one eventually, so maybe it might as well be today.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
Then you should vote for Hiraki who you were certain of being scum.
see? it's all calculated - even that last post was a lie lol
In post 736, humaneatingmonkey wrote:What I see here is forcing a false dichotomy that lynching GeorgeBailey = bad. I don't think that's true. Gamestate forced us to a single wagon. That's what needs analysis.
your VCA 'analysis' is pushing this agenda zzz
In post 736, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I was on Hiraki's wagon at 2 votes and there was no one else wanting to lynch him. It's deadline, and we needed a lynch. Not that I wanted to lynch him, but we needed to flip something. Datisi just jumped the gun and hammered him first. If someone were to talk to me, I would have given intent.
the facts according to HEM:
1) George is not a bad lynch.
2) George needed intent to hammer before lynching.
3) George was hammered on with someone who did not claim intent which is
okay
4) HEM was not able to hammer George before he was aware that George was L-1
the facts according to the thread:
1) George is still not a bad lynch.
2) George did not need intent to hammer before lynching.
3) George was hammered on with someone who did not claim intent which is okay
4) HEM did not hammer George because he was apprehensive about the situation
In post 524, Hiraki wrote:@all: There are 18 hours left so if you are not on a wagon, it's time to move onto one.
oh yeah, you were definitely trying to get a lynch yesterday that was going to happen yesterday HEM yep yep - especially when you tunnel on me for the entire day like you did in blitz I when you flipped...scum!
i'm actually gonna flip my madoka read to hard red after re-reading a few times because there are some blatant inconsistencies that I kind of threw away in the beginning that don't really make sense now - like this one
In post 543, Madoka wrote:I guess I will lay out the essential stuff:
♡ I feel fairly confident datisi is scum (see note 404).
♡ I feel more positively about holden from our interaction.
♡ I still think HEM is town. I do not think the points on Hiraki are AI though.
♡ I think Hiraki may be image managing this game. He tends to be quite mean, but he has complimented me, shiki, and umlaut in some form. He also seems to be playing less assertively. This is not substantial enough to lynch him though. I think most of his content is reasonable. He misinterpreted HEM it seems, but I don't see that as AI. Not really having a solid scum read other than HEM is the biggest negative.
♡ George making HEM vs Hiraki as only T v S is really scummy.
I think lynching Datisi, George, and Hiraki in that order wins it.
VOTE: Datisi
keep in mind we had 18 hours to the deadline and madoka is voting on a wagon that has 2 people (including herself) on it - that's not how you make sure D1 leads into a lynch
In post 742, Umlaut wrote:But that said I'm pretty sure at least one of {Hiraki, HEM} is scum which means I'll have to pick one eventually, so maybe it might as well be today.
let me make this simple for you -
1) how many times has HEM flagrantly lied this game about his past performance?
2) how many times did HEM go on and on about shiki's mastery of meta, then deny it today, and then try to make it see like it was important day 1 for his reads? why on earth isn't that most obvious attempt of pocketing i've ever seen (which failed FYI)
3) even though no one agrees with it, 46 is showing the same thought process of the above which means that i was right all along i just needed better examples for it, I GUESS
In post 137, Umlaut wrote:Yes, I do think it's more accurate to say Hiraki is lurking than Madoka, which is why I think voting him and keeping my vote their is productive since it might produce some kind of actual pressure while voting Madoka is just a null-op.
i do not think hiraki's lurking is alignment indicative in the same way that i do not think hoctac's claiming masons is alignment indicative. hiraki is likely treating his vote as an egopost and waiting for the game to develop, which is in line with his play as either alignment.
i don't know. i think hiraki is generally pretty accurate but the differences in our reads on you come from such disparate places that it is hard for me to make anything of it.
In post 329, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I haven't seen him tunnel other town, so I want to know from shiki if this is common town!Hiraki modus operandi.
i think in a lot of ways hiraki's pushes are his scumhunting as much as the result of his scumhunting, if you're asking if he commonly tunnels, which isn't really the word i would use to describe it. if you're asking me if he commonly 'tunnels' town as town i would say no but there isn't really a way for me to apply that to this situation until after the fact and it also doesn't make a lot of sense to do so because noone is 100% accurate.
mostly the same to me. i noted that he tone policed others in a way that was very uncommon for him in one of his scum games when i was looking over it last time.
Again, not really a read, but given that shiki hasn't then said he's doing that here I sort of want to call it indicative of a townlean.
In post 604, Madoka wrote:We have a mislynch, correct? I say we just lynch Hiraki and if he flips green it is HEM + Shiki.
this^ feels like it is attempting to set up a mafia victory. paired with the suspicious nature of umlaut's vote on me early game i feel like madoka is umlaut's most likely partner. madoka townreading my read of said vote and referring to it as paranoia could have been an attempt to subtly get me to stop thinking about it.
Kind of a stretch to interpret it like this IMO, though I suppose if you start from the assumption Madoka is scum it's a reasonable guess. But this is also sort of attacking a post that said "let's lynch Hiraki" so again a soft defense.
Not even going to bother making a "humaneatingmonkey on Hiraki" post, it's obvious they're at one another's throats here.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
In post 744, Hiraki wrote:1) how many times has HEM flagrantly lied this game about his past performance?
I'm terrible at guessing games, how many?
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
you said (and maintained today) that if mason claim was a lie then at least one of the claimants was scum.
It seems reasonable to conclude that yesterday you thought I was probably scum. Is this correct? I am going somewhere with this but I'd like you to give a definite answer to this before I continue.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
i dont even want to talk about HEM anymore, i want to talk about madoka so no more HEM for right now
i want to speak on why i originally TR madoka -
In post 414, Hiraki wrote:Madoka (recent posting has been very good)
it was shitty because i can't even figure it out because recent posting at this point was bad when i read it now, which is glad that i didn't really push on this more. if i read more into it, i'd have a better idea but i honestly don't. i believe i have been scared of misreading madoka because she is usually scummy to me but i am not scared of that anymore
In post 402, Madoka wrote:I have been skimming, but I am no longer V/LA and will be able to put more time into this. Also Micc, you didn't read this. If you did, I wasn't V/LA, I'm lying.
I am up to page 5 on in-depth reading:
Spoiler: Look at me I am so Town
5 nai
6 nai
8 nai
9 nai
10 nai 11 hu: town, non-lamisty as compared to previous game
12 nai
13 nai
14 nai and also i dont know what this means
15 nai
18 nai and funny 25 ge: town, only town role fish and role phish and roll fish 27 ge: town flex posting 28 da: scum joke 29 hu: scum vote 30 ge: town reaction 31 hu: town perspective 32 ge: town reaction 33 sh: town involvement
34 nai 36 da: hedgey = scummy 37 hu: town, is ok with people being town read / not arguing against it
38 nai
39 nai
41 nai 42 ge: town, guiltless
44 nai
45 nai 46 hu: nvm he is arguing against it
47 nai 53 hu: no, faking that requires premeditation. george was clearly reacting in the moment. you dont need meta for this
54 nai bugspray/umlaut line funny 56 hu: i believe
58 nai 59 ge: do the town reads really come from meta? i dont think so. this read on hem is iffy 60 hu: weird post. really weird post
61 nai 62 da: hedge again 65 nai shiki #2
66 nai
67 nai
68 nai
69 nai shiki #3
70 nai 71 hu: yes i agree 73 hu: good accepting it
74 nai but man this is a completely different guy from last game it's making me feel weird 75 da: is reading as unnaturaly conversive to me. is this bias??? my experience with him is limited so let's make this nai
76 nai 77 da: good tone
80 nai
81 nai
82 nai and scaring me
83 nai and i thought i knew fear before
84 nai
85 nai
86 nai
87 nai lol whyyy 88 ho: good eval
89 nai 90 hu: alright point
91 nai 93 hu: highly town indicative. hu in previous game was very forceful with his positions
94 nai 97 sh: good eval
98 nai
99 nai
100 nai 101 hu: no good, it wasnt suspicious at all
103 nai also don't know why he said this 104 hu: good
105 nai
106 nai
109 nai
110 nai
111 nai
113 nai 114 ho: hmmm
115 nai
117 nai
118 nai
122 nai
123 nai
From the content up to that point,
♡ I am town reading HEM. He is playing in an easy going way and does not seem to care too much about players being town read. In the previous game he pushed for players pretty hard so as to avoid being PoEd. He was also very LAMISTy and he does not appear to be making an effort to appear town here. My negatives are that his friendliness and jovial character is making me feel weird because of the stark contrast with his previous play. It does make me wonder if he is trying to be so different from the last game, that he is town read by meta.
@Holden
, did scum HEM in your last game play similarly to Blitz I? Or did he change up his style? Do you think his play here is within the realm of being deliberately different? Another thing that is weirding me out is how he keeps addressing Shiki. But I think the most suspicious part of HEM's play was his read on the George situation. George simply was not scummy there, and HEM portrayed everyone else's read of the situation as coming from meta, but I do not think that was the case except for Shiki. I suppose this, along with the way HEM has been addressing Shiki, could be explained if they are in a neighborhood and Shiki expressed her meta view of George privately.
♡ I have a town impression of George. His reaction to the masons claim appeared natural and fluid. My only negative is that his play is different than the previous Blitz. That does not provide enough data, however, for this to greatly impact my read. Oh, I also was not fond of his HEM read. George agreed that everyone's view of him came from meta, but again, I do not think that was true. He just looked townie from the situation.
♡ I have a town impression of Shiki. I agreed with her analysis of HEM.
♡ I have a slight town impression of Holden. I liked his perspective on George.
♡ I have a slight scum impression of Datasi. He seems off, but I am not sure how much of that is bias from future pages. Datisi once told me that he is great at being town read from town as tone, so it is concerning that I am getting a scum impression. The hedgeyness of his pan cakes is what pinged me. Is it really a pot bake if it comes with an asterisk? That is a warm make not a hot sake. The timing of his HEM pot cake also did not seem natural.
If Shiki and HEM are neighbors, the setup is looking similar to this game. It may be then, that the neighbors are both town, and mafia consists of a traffic analyst and a goon.
let's start here and ENHANCE
In post 402, Madoka wrote:♡ I am town reading HEM. He is playing in an easy going way and does not seem to care too much about players being town read. In the previous game he pushed for players pretty hard so as to avoid being PoEd. He was also very LAMISTy and he does not appear to be making an effort to appear town here. My negatives are that his friendliness and jovial character is making me feel weird because of the stark contrast with his previous play. It does make me wonder if he is trying to be so different from the last game, that he is town read by meta. @Holden, did scum HEM in your last game play similarly to Blitz I? Or did he change up his style? Do you think his play here is within the realm of being deliberately different? Another thing that is weirding me out is how he keeps addressing Shiki. But I think the most suspicious part of HEM's play was his read on the George situation. George simply was not scummy there, and HEM portrayed everyone else's read of the situation as coming from meta, but I do not think that was the case except for Shiki. I suppose this, along with the way HEM has been addressing Shiki, could be explained if they are in a neighborhood and Shiki expressed her meta view of George privately.
well, that's neat and all but this is never picked up on again - it's just put on the ground. and HEM even does a "good night" thing to Madoka so where did that go?!?
i also don't find any of this town readable. why would someone care if they're townread by other people? why does that make them townie? even the negatives don't make sense - he's doing something different so he doesn't get meta read? what?? he's not really doing that much differently
In post 402, Madoka wrote:♡ I have a slight scum impression of Datasi. He seems off, but I am not sure how much of that is bias from future pages. Datisi once told me that he is great at being town read from town as tone, so it is concerning that I am getting a scum impression. The hedgeyness of his pan cakes is what pinged me. Is it really a pot bake if it comes with an asterisk? That is a warm make not a hot sake. The timing of his HEM pot cake also did not seem natural.
???
now here's where things get interesting - Madoka is reading the game/skimming/doing something but there's a lie in all of this that i dont think anyone talked about
here - madoka says:
In post 403, Madoka wrote:Ok, looking through that last page, I think it is safe to lock HEM as town.
Which is fine - maybe she's up to that point even though her last post indicates she's still near Page 5ish (post 123 is the last post of analysis) then we get this -
In post 506, Madoka wrote:♡ Hiraki's post up to this point have also left a slight town impression on me. They looked worse when I was skimming, but his points are not bad.
at page 10 - so we're going to get something that leads to a scumread between pages 10 and 17 -
In post 543, Madoka wrote:♡ I think Hiraki may be image managing this game. He tends to be quite mean, but he has complimented me, shiki, and umlaut in some form. He also seems to be playing less assertively. This is not substantial enough to lynch him though. I think most of his content is reasonable. He misinterpreted HEM it seems, but I don't see that as AI. Not really having a solid scum read other than HEM is the biggest negative.
not AI - got it
In post 543, Madoka wrote:I think lynching Datisi, George, and Hiraki in that order wins it.
In post 528, HoldenGolden wrote:I'll give the agreement that I was focused on Ulmat while most were not, especially given his reaction and his further posts pinging me.
➳ I am confused though on why my continued discussion about the Mason's stands out to you when others were actively discussing alternatives to the claims around the same time I brought up the neighbor's logic (from memory alone, Datisi, George, Shiki, and HEM). Not only was it a focus on the thread the time, but I also stopped after the reaffirmation by Ulmant in a later post like everyone else. Why does my discussion stand out to you?
➳ Further, Whats this "Holden doesn't let things go" you mention in the spoiled PbP analysis? You are giving yourself a reason to doubt your read logic which I find hard to believe actually exists (as I don't think letting things go = pressure)?
➳ Particularly in the HEM George reaction over my playstyle, how is it TMI? George was asked to compared by ISO from the newbie me and HEM played versus this game. It had nothing to do with the blitz game prior to this, and due to the differences in the length of day phases, I don't see how that is anymore TMI than a reasonable conclusion based on the comparison presented by HEM. The only way it makes sense is if george is scum, and he slipped that I am town since he knows I am town. But that sounds flimsy.
➳ Now onto the spoiled PBP analysis, whats the point in including words like "weird/interesting/hmm" etc. for an analysis and then not explain why they are such interesting bits? None of that actually explains anything AI, and only serves as fluff if you arent going to actually use those posts for anything AI.
➳
It is how much time you spent on it. In particular 187 - 189. Digging into their motivations seemed completely unnecessary at this point. It is possible, however, that my interpretation is biased by the fact that I am reading with the knowledge that they are hard claiming.
➳
In Blitz one you went in circles for days regarding the Night action plan and why it was best to lynch you. You were so fixated on it and I had to skim past it because of how unnecessary it was.
➳
Regarding the TMI, in 235 he is assigning intent behind your posts. There is a difference between saying:
"He's literally just been asking questions" and
"He's literally just been asking questions to get people to be more transparent with their reads."
Having insight into your intent is what is TMI. Similarly, in 244 he is presuming to know the reason why you are playing differently. This is especially weird because you already stated why you are playing differently, and that was not it. It is also weird because, while yes HEM brought up that newbie game as an
example
, his larger point was that you were playing different
in general
. George played with you in the previous Blitz, so the logic that your playstyle difference is due to the pacing does not hold up. He is focusing on the inconsequential difference between this and the newbie game, rather than the bigger point that HEM was trying to make. This indicates to me that he is not genuinely sorting you.
➳
I would not call the spoiled bit an analysis. My analysis is the non-spoiled bit. The spoiler is just for the sake of transparency, it is not there to communicate my thoughts. However, I am providing them so that you can see where my train of thought is at a given time and as a reference to the points I make in my evaluation.
In post 532, HoldenGolden wrote:I'm even more confused. You also in your catch up called plenty of my posts good/townie, so why do you assume that Hoctac's locktown post from earlier is the only reason someone could be townreading me?
Because I have not seen an indication that he has still been attempting to sort you since that post.
In post 534, HoldenGolden wrote:How is directly questioning them and trying to figure out the motivation behind the stunt they pulled if scum (the neighbor theorizing posts) indirect doubting
Because you were puzzling it out, whereas Monkey just said he did not believe it.
In post 536, HoldenGolden wrote:I get a feeling your read on me is stronger based on how you reconfirmed it without being asked to Hoctac here
Your feeling is incorrect. As you pointed out, I have gotten a number of town impressions from your posts as well, and they are stronger than those I have gotten from George.
I do not vote until I am ready to lynch. See Blitz I, Totally Real Food, and Hard Boiled Eggs.
none of that shows any positivity to me, in fact, there's a lot of negativity here - if anything, this looks like you backing down on a potential HG scumread because you don't think you have the ability to go toe to toe. where on earth do you get any good vibes from that post? because he was willing to respond to your questions??
I think the difference between scum!Hiraki and town!Hiraki is that town!Hiraki is generally perceptive on scumtells and push it so he can get more accurate reads from the pressure he creates. Scum!Hiraki would need to manufacture these scumtells from peope that he know is town.
I have the benefit of knowing that he's wrong about me, so his push on me might seem like he's trying to manufacture scumtells out of me. However, I'm still considering if it's an honest mistake that he misread my post. After #414, it's weird to me that Hiraki refused to acknowledge my existence and even took me out of his reads list. He mentions that he didn't misread my post but didn't want to argue about it anymore.
So now my head is: Is this town!Hiraki too proud to own up to his mistake or is this scum!Hiraki failing to get momentum on his manufactured push?
I want to know.
VOTE: Hiraki
I'm voting you - how am I taking you out of my reads list? He asked for everyone
but
you. We're going in circles in this argument and there's no point in continuing it because you're just going to "clarify" (read: change) your post more and more and more. I even put that part in my post that I don't think your lynch goes through today.
