Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[tris]

VOTE: BrightEyedFish for not scumhunting in his first post

[tris]

it's ok. just vote for the fish and everything will be fine

[tris]

VOTE: jjh
scum dodging having to participate in the most critical phase of the game.

i actually think this is a little scummy VOTE: Date

[tris]

VOTE: Hayasaka

sup

is there any particular reason you chose this vote?

[tris]

hello flavor leaf. whatever your alignment, i expect much of the game to revolve around you.

[tris]

too many people are just saying hi

[tris]

VOTE: jjh
scum dodging having to participate in the most critical phase of the game.

i actually think this is a little scummy VOTE: Date

why's that?

do you really think that he's faking unavailability just to avoid RVS?

[tris]

VOTE: Prune

who?

[tris]

i'm lost

[tris]

ah yes VOTE: Prune

[tris]

i see, it seemed a little serious.

[tris]

pleasantly eager to get the actual game going. ahem.
i don't consider a 24 hour absence to be particularly noteworthy in forum mafia. do you think jjh's warning is laced with some self-consciousness?

to me it seemed like he wanted to join in, but couldn't. although couldn't he have dropped some kind of a vote or something?

Pedit:

VOTE: Prune

Does this actually count?? (Assuming this is a vote for Date)

oh! is that what people are doing? that doesn't seem unambiguous enough.

[tris]

on that note,

@pooky @Venus

why just the hellos?

[tris]

I hope I didn't just gladiate Date because I really didn't pick up that connection at first.

Tbh if it goes through I am self voting.

this seems like something town would say

[tris]

VOTE: pooky hello!

[tris]

let me know if you want to answer my question.

[tris]

maybe someone else should ask my question for me then!

[tris]

tris: i don't consider my own point to be particularly strong or worth pursuing with jjh not here to begin with, but i appreciate you engaging it in an honest way.

thank you. you seem like you'll be pleasant to work with even if you are actually mafia.

i like to question people to discover how they are thinking. that's more important than if they're right or wrong.

[tris]

full disclosure: I have a neighbor chat with tris.

Neither of our alignments are mentioned in the chat and (to my knowledge) there's no outside mechanical weirdness tied to it, just a vanilla neighbor chat.

If anything happens in there that gives me cause for concern, I'll let y'all know.

my instinct with neighbour chats is usually to keep them secret until outing them has a specific purpose. what's your reason for doing so here?

by the way, she asked me if it was ok before she did it. i didn't see a reason it needed to be kept secret.

vote: Prune

fixed

VOTE: pooky hello!

tris Prune Scumbuddy confirmed thx

Yo this kind of bothers me
It's like dragging on the joke a bit too far? RVS extension if you will

SC

you wanna join my vote here?

[tris]

mind elaborating on ampharos?

[tris]

mind elaborating on ampharos?

. [that said, Tris seems like an obvious villager aorn, but whatever]

Kind of liked this but you obviously have more info. Are you suspicious of them?

~M

no. i actually don't have much more information. we haven't done much talking yet.

but, i don't townread her either. the thing she's doing there (townreading me) is something a lot of people seem to be doing. what about that seemed more likely from town? maybe i'm missing something since i already know i'm town.

[tris]

VC 1.1

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia
Hayasaka (1): Ampharos
Kaname Date (1): tris
DoctorPepper (1): Kaname Date

Not Voting (9): Daenerys and Dragons, Venus Mars and Pluto, Hayasaka, DoctorPepper, BrightEyedFish, jjh927, PookyTheMagicalBear, Flavor Leaf, Gamma Emerald

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-03 14:33:01)

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to eliminate

i'm voting the bear

[tris]

@mod

[tris]

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

ive also haven't played in a while. about 8 months. which is part of why i said that. you were someone i recognized. and that's what i remember about you.

also, i don't think i need to point that out to make it so. it seems to happen in every single game you play.

tris: i don't consider my own point to be particularly strong or worth pursuing with jjh not here to begin with, but i appreciate you engaging it in an honest way.

thank you. you seem like you'll be pleasant to work with even if you are actually mafia.

i like to question people to discover how they are thinking. that's more important than if they're right or wrong.

Ugh, I feel a tunnel coming, but tris is screaming scum.

@Tris - do you remember any games we've played together off the top of your head? I remember one, but I think I replaced out because I left site.

off the top of my head, there were two or three of those. in one, skitter accidentally eliminated me day 1 as town. you were mafia in that one, and i think you won.

another you replaced into during day 2 only to be killed off that night i think.

i feel like there's another one i'm missing.

Oh! i forgot that you were in the first game i played with this account. that was the Room Odds one. you won as mafia there.

i've also modded a game where you were town. (and another one where you replaced in only to be killed that same night)

[tris]

@Hayasaka

why haven't you made any real votes?

[tris]

also, Amy, do you want to put your vote on someone you aren't townreading?

[tris]

actually, i think a lot of people are withholding their vote right now

[tris]

speaking of votes, what's up with the D&D vote? What don't you like about their one post?

[tris]

...

waves are how the game gets going. why would you avoid them? and doesn't making a naked vote for no apparent reason after RVS create waves?

[tris]

VOTE: DoctorPepper

i don't think my pooky vote is doing any good since no one is joining me.

so, Doc, do you think there's enough content to go off of now?

[tris]

for me? it doesn't need to be for my sake lol

[tris]

good luck with that vote.

[tris]

full disclosure: I have a neighbor chat with tris.

Neither of our alignments are mentioned in the chat and (to my knowledge) there's no outside mechanical weirdness tied to it, just a vanilla neighbor chat.

If anything happens in there that gives me cause for concern, I'll let y'all know.

my instinct with neighbour chats is usually to keep them secret until outing them has a specific purpose. what's your reason for doing so here?

I tend to dislike concealing mechanical information without a concrete reason to do so, and will otherwise default to laying all my cards on the table. Having access to a neighbor chat is a super innocuous thing that I don't really see the benefit in concealing.

Furthermore, accountability; if Tris says something compromising in the chat I can now just pop in and say "hey Tris is being weird in chat" instead of having to waste time claiming later. [that said, Tris seems like an obvious villager aorn, but whatever]

Finally:

Spoiler:

i have no idea how to use a neighbor chat this is literally my first time

But now you’ve put tris on her guard

Seems like a mildly scum-leaning move as they don’t have as much reason to try and draw out scum via the hood

I don't see how the neighborhood being public changes anything there. why would mafia be more on guard in the neighborhood due to the neighborhood being known about. it's not like people can go look in the neighborhood even now. and a townsperson is able to reveal what was said in there regardless of whether or not they had previously talked about it.

[tris]

they

could

. i consider that less likely than there just being neighbours, especially in a Maria game. but that's what i mean about idly voicing hypotheticals. it could be or it couldn't be, but what does that get you?

Pepper: that's true enough.

I like this mindset
Kaname Date prolly town

Also I was away for like 20 minutes and nothing happened, guess no one’s on rn

i think the mindset is a good one, but i don't see it as one that's more likely to come from town.

[tris]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Feels like Gamma is trying to grab onto something right now rather than that be a naturally formed read.

i think you might be right. VOTE: Gamma

i feel better about this vote than any other vote i've made so far.

pedit: pooky voting there kind of makes me not want to but that's just being contrarian. that would be silly

[tris]

like to me, Amy's decision just seems to come from not knowing what to do with a neighborhood

[tris]

if anything, it seems almost a little town-indicative.

[tris]

@Flavor

, why did you want to know what i remembered about previous games?

[tris]

(As a wolf, I'd absolutely be using the chat to try to pocket a town Tris. I used to play a lot of social games involving manipulation in a one-on-one setting and am pretty confident in my ability to successfully do so. But that's obviously WIFOM now that I've said it out loud, so feel free to ignore this entire parenthetical lol)

hahaha

[tris]

I'll take tris, Kaname Date, Gamma Emerald, Hayasaka, and Ampharos for town right now

what exactly makes Amy town?

[tris]

on that note,

@pooky @Venus

why just the hellos?

Why wouldn't I? It's rude not to say hi

My question is why just say hi?

[tris]

vote flavor leaf

Talking too much

Dumbest reason to vote someone I ever seen, I legit think you might be scum trying to derail something.

i am not a fan of this post.
VOTE: Venus, Mars, & Pluto

Even if pooky were not shitposting, i don't see how it would be derailing

[tris]

i'm off of Gamma because i thought 208 was sufficient

[tris]

i need to take a closer look at my neighbor now. i have some biases floating around her in either direction which i don't think are actually related to her alignment. i need to see through that with a clear head

[tris]

re: Date's mindset on defending the neighborhood as actually being extant

Wolves can townside or scumside with mechanical information just as they can with their reads. A townsiding wolf is probably looking for maximum mechanical accuracy in order to try to buy towncred; a scumsiding wolf is just... not gonna make those posts. Let town lead themselves down the rabbit hole to their death, if that's what they're gonna do.

I PERSONALLY prefer to mechanically scumside as a wolf whenever possible, and thus my gut instinct is to lend Date some mild towncred for making a post that it's really easy for a wolf to just Not Make... but at the end of the day, it depends on what sort of player Date is. Which is not something I'm familiar with.

i realize that knowing my main would not help, given if i understand correctly, you don't really play on ms.
but i've never been able to lie about my own mechanical beliefs as scum, though that's just my personal style. it

is

sometimes useful given an unfortunate tendency for players to associate having similar mechanical beliefs with being the same alignment. in my experience it takes rare skill to successfully argue for and use a mechanical stance that actively hurts town.

though, as i write this i realize that in my last scumgame, we were forced to argue for mechanical decisions that benefited us explicitly... so i guess i'm full of shit. still, it was a much more dramatic situation than whether or not neighbours exist in a game.

anyways, i didn't like Pepper bringing up the possibility while not actually appearing paranoid of tris and Ampharos. at least, of off memory. it seemed unecessary.

this is spot on. i'm this way too. i have agree with what i'm saying on some level to be comfortable saying it as mafia which i know is a weakness. which is why i don't tend to townread people just for having a good philosophy towards the game. there's gotta be that spark of harder to fake town thought process.

i consciously try to stop myself from townreading people just because i like what they're saying.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

i'm at a point where i need to go back and look at each player individually. i found myself getting a bit unfocused on recent posts. so we'll see what comes of that.

[tris]

i'm at a point where i need to go back and look at each player individually. i found myself getting a bit unfocused on recent posts. so we'll see what comes of that.

actually forget it, changing approach

[tris]

tris do you want to join us in the masonhood

i think that's up to you

[tris]

I'll take tris, Kaname Date, Gamma Emerald, Hayasaka, and Ampharos for town right now

well, jjh has my vote.
of confidence.

why does this town list give you confidence in jjh? it looks mostly like a list people who have been actively around aside from those who are shitposting and FL?

[tris]

I first must determine if you are pure of heart and mind

good

[tris]

they do have a really, really good handle on the mindsets of players, even correctly reading my cautious "why's that" to tris when she voted me early on

as

caution. because of course i did think she'd merely misunderstood i was kidding, but i wanted to be sure it was that and not lead her answer.

this has been my observation as well. i thought her assessment of me in 140 was spot on.

[/quote]i'm surprised to have gotten vocal support on the Pepper vote. that really was spaghetti flung at the wall to the highest degree, but at the same time there hasn't been anything else i've felt too strongly about.[/quote]
for my part, i wasn't sure where to go so i decided to fling my spaghetti right next to yours to make it more potent.

i'm actually a bit bothered by the lack of wagons (aside from the gamma one (which i am no longer agreeing with)). does anyone else want to vote venusmarsandpluto with me? 240 continues to bother me.

pedit: but how would i know for sure that one of them WILL be hit? i guess i'll choose the child

[tris]

i need to take a closer look at my neighbor now. i have some biases floating around her in either direction which i don't think are actually related to her alignment. i need to see through that with a clear head

I wouldn't mind fading a neighbor. But if that neighbor flips town then I can't sleep until we we flip the other one.

but why? we could both be town, which is of course what i want to figure out.

[tris]

i need to take a closer look at my neighbor now. i have some biases floating around her in either direction which i don't think are actually related to her alignment. i need to see through that with a clear head

I wouldn't mind fading a neighbor. But if that neighbor flips town then I can't sleep until we we flip the other one.

but why? we could both be town, which is of course what i want to figure out.

Elaborate for me my pirate friend.

the fish is saying that, for example, he'd want to fade me if Amy flipped town, but i think that's insane. under that logic, i might as well assume Amy is mafia right now.

[tris]

VOTE: Hayasaka
Notice me senpai
Why did you shade me like you did

I chainsawed Amy, you could say I am doing something wrong but it would the opposite of a shade.
So to answer that question I think you are targetting what you believe to be a low hanging fruit. Ampharos + that avi is far more likely to be a unique ID compared to me who is a clear alt.

Rest of this player list seems decent or is Not_Mafia who isn't pushable day 1 beyond a very late PL.

You admitting to grasping onto something doesn't make me feel better about it. Maybe I can improve my read down the line if you are town I do have time to figure this out and I'd rather solve top-down then bottom up. Tends to lead to better reads. But having a preference to top-down solving isn't going to stop me from seeing something I view as off and acting on it.

I'm also having trouble getting any SRs. I have a few TRs right now but scum is playing smart or laying low.

My current Town leaning block is:
tris
Amp
FL

Everyone else is null as I don't feel strong enough to SR anyone.

UNVOTE:

So, you think both neighbors are town huh?

[tris]

also, i'm curious about the FL read. i don't really know how to read him.

[tris]

also, i'm curious about the FL read. i don't really know how to read him.

I don't have a fail proof FL read in fact I don't know if I have ever truly SR FL in any of our previous games (even if he turned out to be scum).

But my readon FL this game is just based on vibe and caution if that makes sense.

caution? what does that part mean?

[tris]

who are the neighbors?

are you serious?

[tris]

also, i'm curious about the FL read. i don't really know how to read him.

I don't have a fail proof FL read in fact I don't know if I have ever truly SR FL in any of our previous games (even if he turned out to be scum).

But my readon FL this game is just based on vibe and caution if that makes sense.

Talk to me about "caution".

Meaning something like, I find its isn't difficult for almost anyone to SR FL due to his style and maybe its that I just default into TRing FL early game because its easier for me. Also, from my exp with him I feel his "style" is pretty much constant regardless of alignment. FL may be scum here but at this early stage and without any hard evidence its worthless to pursue fmpov.

that sounds more like a null-read to me, but I'll accept this

[tris]

I'll take tris, Kaname Date, Gamma Emerald, Hayasaka, and Ampharos for town right now

well, jjh has my vote.
of confidence.

why does this town list give you confidence in jjh? it looks mostly like a list people who have been actively around aside from those who are shitposting and FL?

There's still a good few people who've been active who aren't on that list, as well as some people who haven't been active. Do you expect me to have reads on inactive players, or are you just throwing doubt on my process?

who?

[tris]

290
why is the progression bad? thinking a player is a newbie and realizing they really are not is often going to change a read considerably.

Because it feels more like backpedaling due to pressure rather then a genuine reassessment

Dragons

but there was new information, so how is that not reassessment?

[tris]

i'm actually a bit bothered by the lack of wagons (aside from the gamma one (which i am no longer agreeing with)). does anyone else want to vote venusmarsandpluto with me? 240 continues to bother me.

I meant to quote this, sorry Tris.

if you're asking about the first part, the game felt like it was a bit sluggish.

the second part, i'm referring to 283, which could Venus respond to that please?

[tris]

fucking hydras. lol

i need a moment to sort this out

[tris]

I don’t even want to parse Pooky until I can get a little more content out of him.

this here is something i agree with

[tris]

Even if pooky were not shitposting, i don't see how it would be derailing

Absurdity to halt momentum in discussion and direct town towards a less useful point of discussion.

-Pluto

i'm going to respond to this after i hear from venus.

[tris]

vote flavor leaf

Talking too much

Dumbest reason to vote someone I ever seen, I legit think you might be scum trying to derail something.

i am not a fan of this post.
VOTE: Venus, Mars, & Pluto

Even if pooky were not shitposting, i don't see how it would be derailing

It is derailly if people take it it and start asking questions about it. If it was a rvs kinda vote it was way too late in the game to be of any meaning/fun

~Venus

i don't feel like there was anything going on that was important enough that derailing in that way would be a problem. and i don't think that the discussion that might emerge from people reacting to that vote would be any less valuable. and just because he tells flavor leaf that he's talking too much doesn't mean flavor leaf will stop talking about the things he wants to talk about.

that said, i don't have any issues anymore that deserve my vote staying here. UNVOTE:

[tris]

Let's put this to rest.

I've been playing casually since 2011, seriously since 2016. I'm a site administrator at MafiaUniverse.com.

Assertions that I'm new are incorrect as well as annoying, and I guarantee you that's NAI.

Yeah I don’t think someone of this experience level would be self-conscious like I was initially thinking, or feel much need to play defensively regarding mechanics
UNVOTE:

hmmm

I think my feeling of weirdness re: Gamma is more that I didn't read Ampharos' post as self-conscious at all, and even if you assumed that she was new to mafia, I still wouldn't have read her posts as self-conscious, so calling them such seems off to me. Iirc there were several people calling Ampharos towny for outing the neighborhood, so it feels like this could be a shallow attempt to prevent her from becoming a universal TR, if that makes sense

hold on, i don't recall anyone townreading her FOR outing the neighborhood. except for me saying that it could be slightly towny. and that was after gamma voted Amy.

[tris]

on that note,

@pooky @Venus

why just the hellos?

Why wouldn't I? It's rude not to say hi

Are you deliberately misunderstanding the question?

- Daenerys

oh yeah, i didn't get an answer to 282

[tris]

i feel like i'm getting too many townreads. i'll have to figure that out when i get to the present

[tris]

They made that initial post I didn’t like.

Multiple people went against it, interesting note.

2nd highest amount of posts in the game

And I didn’t hate the way they talked when we were talking back when.

That’s my read on tris.

i actually think i like this better than if he had townread me. it seems appropriate to the game so far

[tris]

kinda like FL's posts on the previous page for reasons i'm struggling to articulate. might come back to it in a few hours

might not be around much for the next few days

ok cool. this is the first time i've actually gotten a town ping from Amy

[tris]

Actually, no. i'm not townreading to many people

[tris]

{Hayasaka, PookyTheMagicalBear} special masonry
{Kaname Date, BrightEyedFish}
{Ampharos}
{Gamma Emerald, Flavor Leaf}
<anything above here is some level of townread>

{Daenerys and Dragons, Venus Mars and Pluto, Not_Mafia, DoctorPepper, jjh927} mafia be somewhere in here

[tris]

explanations on townreads:

Date:

485 is where it crystallized for me, but it's not just that post. his process in general seems right. (This isn't why i townread you, but it makes sense that you're Chara)

BEF:

I'll just copy Date here. I like 509. And, I think there's generally a relaxed townieness.

Amy:

well, there's that post I quoted. This one's still a little weaker. it's mostly just coming from that post. If she's town, i think she'll continue to show it. If she doesn't though, then I'm worried.

Gamma:

can't really point to anything here. it's just a hunch. I'm mostly am against the wagon that I used to be on.

FL:

As I mentioned, I liked what he said about his read on me. But, Flavor Leaf can say all kinds of things. idk. i think it's impossible for me to have a strong townread on him, at least this early.

[tris]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

[tris]

Why do you town read FL slightly in particular?

his "read" on me. those words seemed like something he actually thinks, and i think i understand where he's coming from with it.

[tris]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

I keep telling that to Shiro. Why is this even so important to you? I much preferred your previous reason fir voting us. :/

~M

i don't have great reasons to vote for anyone right now. i probably should fix that.

idk.

i would like an answer though. i don't really get why they haven't

[tris]

290
why is the progression bad? thinking a player is a newbie and realizing they really are not is often going to change a read considerably.

Because it feels more like backpedaling due to pressure rather then a genuine reassessment

but why do you think that? he learned that Amy wasn't a newbie, so he changed his assessment

[tris]

woops. meant to quote this

290
why is the progression bad? thinking a player is a newbie and realizing they really are not is often going to change a read considerably.

Because it feels more like backpedaling due to pressure rather then a genuine reassessment

Dragons

but there was new information, so how is that not reassessment?

I don't think the retreat was motivated by the new information

[tris]

hello flavor leaf. whatever your alignment, i expect much of the game to revolve around you.

Ughhh...does this mean this was a pocket attempt on me? Like, I'm a performer, it's not hard to see I like the attention. I feel like this kind of mindset could explain why it felt off to me.

but, i wouldn't know how to pocket you

[tris]

Let's put this to rest.

I've been playing casually since 2011, seriously since 2016. I'm a site administrator at MafiaUniverse.com.

Assertions that I'm new are incorrect as well as annoying, and I guarantee you that's NAI.

Yeah I don’t think someone of this experience level would be self-conscious like I was initially thinking, or feel much need to play defensively regarding mechanics
UNVOTE:

hmmm

I think my feeling of weirdness re: Gamma is more that I didn't read Ampharos' post as self-conscious at all, and even if you assumed that she was new to mafia, I still wouldn't have read her posts as self-conscious, so calling them such seems off to me. Iirc there were several people calling Ampharos towny for outing the neighborhood, so it feels like this could be a shallow attempt to prevent her from becoming a universal TR, if that makes sense

hold on, i don't recall anyone townreading her FOR outing the neighborhood. except for me saying that it could be slightly towny. and that was after gamma voted Amy.

Sorry, I thought I remembered that happening but it was probably just general townreads as opposed to specifically for outing the neighborhoods. basically just remove [for outing the neighborhood] from my post and it should still make sense.

Did you have any response to what I said or was your intention just to question the veracity of my post?

- Daenerys

actually, i just looked back, and it looks like there was only one expressed townread on Amy at the time by Mars. so, i really doubt that motivation.

[tris]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

you seem to be pushing similar things as I am, but we’re in your POE. Can you explain why we’re in your POE?

- Daenerys

cause i don't have any reason to believe you're town. i do plan to look through your iso soon, so watch this space

[tris]

I have a surprise.

VOTE: 2 Pooky

no.

[tris]

That settles it

V/la til Saturday

Again, sorry team!

Who is this team?

I wrote team because I've been writing emails all day at work but this is kind of a bad post

what's so bad about it?

[tris]

ok, i scumread Dragons. none of the posts Dragons has posted have been good.
If it were just Daenerys, i'm not sure where i would fall. There's a number of things i disagree with daenerys on, but it seems like she just might have some different approaches to the game, and i'm not sure what to draw from the fights with FL and M,V, and P.
but, that's not to say i townread that head, and since i scumread the dragons, VOTE: Daenerys and Dragons
also, i don't want to do Gamma or Fish. Especially, fish

[tris]

uh, not exactly what i wanted to happen.

let's just hope dnd is indeed mafia

[tris]

i'm really not sure what to think of that hammer there. without even claims??

[tris]

VMP and Tris had far worse votes than us, and I plan to look into that more if I’m not killed.

really????? worse than hammering without asking for a claim first?

[tris]

i feel like we actually lost info here

[tris]

aren't jesters considered bastard?

[tris]

good morning! let me see what's up

[tris]

Is it considered poor play to gladiate at day start?

i would like you to wait a little if you're seriously considering doing this right now. i haven't had a chance to do anything today yet

[tris]

i don't like how people were supporting/jokingly supporting the early gladiate idea rather than just shutting it down.

doing that removes a lot of area for discussion which can be had when there's the possibility of a different fade

[tris]

wait, i actually think it's a bad idea if you do that because obviously whoever you gladiate goes down unless you gladiate someone really towny or cool, in which case we probably just have a tvt gladiate.

well ok

[tris]

actually, i don't want Amy shot either. if she's town i want to see more of her, and if she's scum i think wagoning her would be more valuable than a shot.

also, day 1 scum elims lose games. don't get too confident yet.

i haven't seen the context to this yet, but i probably agree

[tris]

This feels like where I want to start today. After looking through DnD's ISO

FoS: Kaname Dat, Not_Mafia and tris.

DnD's and Kaname interactions feel polite and friendly.

This has been said 100 times, NM is NM and it still feels like a 50-50 slot. But... DnD never really said anything either way about the slot.

DnD was obsessed with knowing why FL had a SR on tris. So this intrigues me.

this is an interesting fos list to me. do you scumread kaname for anything beyond dnd interactions, because i've liked her, but i want to make sure i'm not being pocketed or something.

also same question on my side, is what dnd said the only reason you fos me or is there more?

[tris]

Mechanics cleared Pooky.
In many ways actually.

I honestly would have townread them just because of play differences to another game

Also, just gonna put this out there that I have the same flavor as D&D, so flavor has no meaning.

in what way? are you saying you're the devil also?

[tris]

EBWOP

In other words,

FL's hammer did not feel like it was planned with DnD.

i'm finding myself leaning towards that conclusion. like couldn't flavor leaf have waited for haya to gladiate someone else which is something she seemed likely to do?

[tris]

Frankly, I do believe one of the scum is in DrPepper or Not Mafia. Strictly based on lack of posting and DnD seeming to be one of the slots trying to do something, to the point of forcing analysis.

Deep wolf is in Tris, VMP, Jjh, Ampharos, Kamane probably.

@VMP - dont take it the wrong way, please. I town read most of this list individually, but grand scheme of it all.

i think the most likely on that list is Amy, and maybe jjh. i don't think i know jjh enough yet i should try to talk to him

[tris]

i don't want to do drp yet

[tris]

he doesn't seem like he has any agenda here

[tris]

i wish amy was around more

[tris]

VOTE: Amy

[tris]

However, I don’t think that it is impossible by any means for him to still be scum, but I’m not like sold on going him, but the vengeful townie claim did exactly what it was supposed to do if he is scum.

that's true

[tris]

@Amy

do you still townread kaname?

[tris]

i'm going to assume VMP is town because of messy interactions with DnD and i don't want to read the hydra

[tris]

i'm currently looking at a pool of {Amy, not_mafia, drP, and maybe jjh}

could Amy and not_mafia be together? amy has been pushing n_m, which seems dangerous at this point if they're mafia. maybe it is dr pepper. or i'm fooled somewhere else (or jjh)

[tris]

i don't understand why everyone suddenly wants to get kaname

[tris]

do it no balls

i have no idea

yes. unless you gladiate a player i don't townread. then it's good play.

the only offwagon i confidently TR is Hayasaka. let me see if i can remember what my other reads this game actually are.

[tris]

he doesn't seem like he has any agenda here

Tbf, he really hasn’t been posting enough for that to even be relevant? If you’re going to object to his wagon. then I think his lack of expressed survivalism would be a better reason.

~M

that's pretty much what i mean. he generally doesn't seem to care what's happening, although i guess he could be a bit dejected by his partner's fade.

[tris]

i don't understand why everyone suddenly wants to get kaname

What do you think of KD pushing Pepper, who you don’t want executed today?

Are you tr both of those slots?

i am townreading kaname.
i guess i would like to see what he has to say about what i've said about DrP

@Date

Why are you voting for Amy? Are you just sheeping FL’s read or do you have an independent reason for sr them?

~M

it has nothing to do with FL. i had a moment yesterday where something looked kind of like it was town from her, but she's been rather underwhelming. she has said things i agree with, and she can be insightful, but not in any ways that seems uniquely to come from town. i feel like that would have shown itself by now. but maybe she just needs to talk more. but as it is, i'm keeping my vote here.

[tris]

What interested me was that his post was directed to DnD, so what was it about that post in particular that you viewed as representative of his “ego”?

i don't think it registered to me that the post was directed to D&D. it was just specifically the line "but you see how i drop the point?" which sounded condescending, like he's talking to a child a bit.
but i'll re-iterate it wasn't intended as a serious criticism of FL in an out of game way.

i had the same reaction to that line

[tris]

Still think Amy is town btw

help me see that

[tris]

you know, me a Kaname have very similar reads. i'm not sure what that means though

[tris]

even down to not having given jjh much thought.

[tris]

town: VMP, Hayasaka
towny: Gamma, tris, Fish
vengeful town: Pepper
Flavor Leaf tier: FL

leftovers: NM, Amy, jjh

jjh probably deserves to be higher but i've done zero real examination of the slot.

like swap my name out for kaname's and i can't see anything i'd change. maybe a bit on the characterization of the drp category.

on that note actually, i'd like an explanation of why it is correct to fade the vengeful claim

[tris]

i'd certainly like to hear from Amy.

i also want to hear from jjh wrt his Amy read

[tris]

hey i have some other stuff i'm doing, but i'll get to this later, so don't end the day too soon please

[tris]

tris was one of my strongest early townreads,

and decays largely due to PoE reasons

+ probably my own personal detachment from the thread in general and that read in particular. She's not

really

on my radar here; her lack of being in the top tier is largely just paranoia on my part.

i don't understand this part.how could someone be poe'd into a lower townread? it's not like three strong townreads is too many.

[tris]

i'm gonna pause at about 1055 to say that i'm feeling a lot more complicated about my read of Amy right now. those posts feel like a natural flow, but if she's town then something's gotta give somewhere else.
hmm, but it's also feels a bit out of touch with everything in a way i sometimes get when i'm mafia.
but, on another hand it seems really weird for her to be scum with not_mafia.

idk. this is just my thoughts at the moment that i wanted to mark down before i proceed and see how that might change

[tris]

Can we conftown Amp after those series of posts? I tried to find something scummy and came up with zilch.

Eh, i got some scum vibes from it.

Yeah, 1053 ruined it.

really? how so?

[tris]

BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

1053 just seems like a joke to me?????

[tris]

Oi, I thought Nancy was Venus, Auro was Mars, and Shiro was Pluto this whole time

somehow i thought venus was supposed to be nancy as well. i'm not sure why we both got this wrong in the same way

[tris]

i'm currently looking at a pool of {Amy, not_mafia, drP, and maybe jjh}

could Amy and not_mafia be together? amy has been pushing n_m, which seems dangerous at this point if they're mafia. maybe it is dr pepper. or i'm fooled somewhere else (or jjh)

NM isn’t doing anything to advance the game and therefore if he’s scum and higher than rand chance he is, I think whomever his buddy is if true would probably be bussing him here.

My main issue with NM venge isn’t that I tr him but it provides no info but I’m not opposed to it either.

I’m less sure on Amy because of her recent posts but I’m currently tr everyone else in the game more than her.

~M

huh? i was under the impression that you didn't like her most recent posts based on your reactions to them.

[tris]

i hate trying to read flavor leaf

[tris]

Amy, why do you feel detached from the thread?

[tris]

also, why couldn't you explain your thoughts on me at the time?

[tris]

i'm currently looking at a pool of {Amy, not_mafia, drP, and maybe jjh}

could Amy and not_mafia be together? amy has been pushing n_m, which seems dangerous at this point if they're mafia. maybe it is dr pepper. or i'm fooled somewhere else (or jjh)

NM isn’t doing anything to advance the game and therefore if he’s scum and higher than rand chance he is, I think whomever his buddy is if true would probably be bussing him here.

My main issue with NM venge isn’t that I tr him but it provides no info but I’m not opposed to it either.

I’m less sure on Amy because of her recent posts but I’m currently tr everyone else in the game more than her.

~M

huh? i was under the impression that you didn't like her most recent posts based on your reactions to them.

I like them better then what she’s been doing for most of the game, which was seeming to be avoiding the game. I see contradictions like in 1046 and 1047 which I’ve already mentioned. Amy is still my weakest read but I felt more confident on her slot yesterday. Venus and Pluto are tr her but Idk, because I tr everyone except NM more. I know, sorry this isn’t as helpful as I would like.

that makes a lot of sense to me. as i mentioned, i see both town possibility and mafia possibility in those posts.

Have you and her managed to have any meaningful convos in your PT?

~M

nope. we haven't said anything to each other in there all day.

[tris]

i'm currently looking at a pool of {Amy, not_mafia, drP, and maybe jjh}

could Amy and not_mafia be together? amy has been pushing n_m, which seems dangerous at this point if they're mafia. maybe it is dr pepper. or i'm fooled somewhere else (or jjh)

NM isn’t doing anything to advance the game and therefore if he’s scum and higher than rand chance he is, I think whomever his buddy is if true would probably be bussing him here.

My main issue with NM venge isn’t that I tr him but it provides no info but I’m not opposed to it either.

I’m less sure on Amy because of her recent posts but I’m currently tr everyone else in the game more than her.

~M

the problem i have with that is that it would leave her having to go it alone for the rest of the game. and from a position where she's under scrutiny

[tris]

i mean, i haven't really been using it myself either. i have a hard time knowing what i should post in there that it wouldn't be better just to post in here

[tris]

i'm currently looking at a pool of {Amy, not_mafia, drP, and maybe jjh}

could Amy and not_mafia be together? amy has been pushing n_m, which seems dangerous at this point if they're mafia. maybe it is dr pepper. or i'm fooled somewhere else (or jjh)

NM isn’t doing anything to advance the game and therefore if he’s scum and higher than rand chance he is, I think whomever his buddy is if true would probably be bussing him here.

My main issue with NM venge isn’t that I tr him but it provides no info but I’m not opposed to it either.

I’m less sure on Amy because of her recent posts but I’m currently tr everyone else in the game more than her.

~M

the problem i have with that is that it would leave her having to go it alone for the rest of the game. and from a position where she's under scrutiny

Yes that is possible but it’s also possible for scum to want to bus their deadweight buddies if that is the case. I’ve seen more than a few games where scum has bussed their entire team. That’s the main problem with the NM slot, no player in the game looks connected to him in any way but nothing he’s doing is town indicative either.

~M

If you’re basing your reads strictly based off of associatives, no player in the game has any with NM but he’s not done anything townie, so how do you parse that?

~M

i'm not basing my reads strictly based on associatives. i'm just thinking about them a little bit.

it does actually bother me that no one is really pushing away from not mafia. actually maybe Flavor Leaf is doing that subtly. What if Flavor Leaf/Not Mafia? it could explain the bus the other day actually. because if Amy gladiates onto not_mafia, that's still a mafia dead, but that way he gets towncred.

[tris]

Spoiler:

i'm currently looking at a pool of {Amy, not_mafia, drP, and maybe jjh}

could Amy and not_mafia be together? amy has been pushing n_m, which seems dangerous at this point if they're mafia. maybe it is dr pepper. or i'm fooled somewhere else (or jjh)

NM isn’t doing anything to advance the game and therefore if he’s scum and higher than rand chance he is, I think whomever his buddy is if true would probably be bussing him here.

My main issue with NM venge isn’t that I tr him but it provides no info but I’m not opposed to it either.

I’m less sure on Amy because of her recent posts but I’m currently tr everyone else in the game more than her.

~M

the problem i have with that is that it would leave her having to go it alone for the rest of the game. and from a position where she's under scrutiny

Yes that is possible but it’s also possible for scum to want to bus their deadweight buddies if that is the case. I’ve seen more than a few games where scum has bussed their entire team. That’s the main problem with the NM slot, no player in the game looks connected to him in any way but nothing he’s doing is town indicative either.

~M

If you’re basing your reads strictly based off of associatives, no player in the game has any with NM but he’s not done anything townie, so how do you parse that?

~M

i'm not basing my reads strictly based on associatives. i'm just thinking about them a little bit.

it does actually bother me that no one is really pushing away from not mafia. actually maybe Flavor Leaf is doing that subtly. What if Flavor Leaf/Not Mafia? it could explain the bus the other day actually. because if Amy gladiates onto not_mafia, that's still a mafia dead, but that way he gets towncred.

I think scum!FL would be more likely to bus NM here. According to Auro in one of his recent scumgames he bussed his entire team, so him being reluctant on NM is probably town indicative. “Amy gladiating into NM”? How does FL get towncred here or am I missing something?

~M

ok yeah

[tris]

BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

1053 just seems like a joke to me?????

Scum make jokes too

do you think that was a scummy joke?

[tris]

BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

1053 just seems like a joke to me?????

Scum make jokes too

do you think that was a scummy joke?

If they are scum, then yes.

If they are town, then no.

Both answers are equal in that specific situation.

Other things I’ve brought up, multiples times, might I add, are still the reason for me seeing them as likely scum. If they are actually town, then fine. This is an annoying hold up that seems super forced

i'm not trying to hold anything up. i was just wondering what you thought about it. BEF obviously thought there was something scummy about it, and i want to know what that was. because i don't see it at all. but, it wasn't meant as a way to attack the idea that Amy is scum. i agree there are other good reasons that could be the case.

[tris]

i guess i want HURT: NM. Only other i would consider right now is Amy, but she needs more talking with.

on that note, i still want to hear from jjh about his townread of Amy, especially in relation to before her recent posts. cause i want to know why he was townreading her at the time.

[tris]

could you point to any specific post where you get that feeling?

[tris]

tris talk me through your progression on me

I feel like I've been more transparent on my progression on you then you have. You still haven't told us why you've shifted on me. But, I'll explain anyway.

At the start of the game, you seemed fine. I liked many of your observations, but I didn't think that any of it wasn't something mafia couldn't be just as likely observe. So, I was reserved in my read. Then, this post kinda pinged me as town, so that's when you became a light townread. Do you think you could articulate what you were thinking there? I know you were a bit busy following that. But, when you did post during the start of day 2, it just felt uninspired. And, I was losing the bit of towniness I had picked up from that one post. And, that's when I was starting to think you might be scum. It was a combination of POE and you not following up with anything more I thought was towny. Then, when you came back, I had mixed feelings. There is something in those posts that felt like a natural movement, but the detatchedness you described really matched up with the way I sometimes can get when I'm mafia. It happens as town too, but in that case I recover easier than as mafia. Of course, you are not me, but that's what I was thinking of. It has especially bothered me how you can't seem to explain why your read on me has changed. It looks like a scum who needs to scumread someone, but can't figure out a reason. That's what a lot of it comes off as. Someone who is having a hard time making reads because they already know what's true.

[tris]

BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

1053 just seems like a joke to me?????

The timing was way off for me to take it as just a joke.

Yeah, it was an odd flex.

~M

It's my kind of flex. I will sometimes say things like that just because I randomly feel like it.

[tris]

tris talk me through your progression on me

I feel like I've been more transparent on my progression on you then you have. You still haven't told us why you've shifted on me. But, I'll explain anyway.

At the start of the game, you seemed fine. I liked many of your observations, but I didn't think that any of it wasn't something mafia couldn't be just as likely observe. So, I was reserved in my read. Then, this post kinda pinged me as town, so that's when you became a light townread. Do you think you could articulate what you were thinking there? I know you were a bit busy following that. But, when you did post during the start of day 2, it just felt uninspired. And, I was losing the bit of towniness I had picked up from that one post. And, that's when I was starting to think you might be scum. It was a combination of POE and you not following up with anything more I thought was towny. Then, when you came back, I had mixed feelings. There is something in those posts that felt like a natural movement, but the detatchedness you described really matched up with the way I sometimes can get when I'm mafia. It happens as town too, but in that case I recover easier than as mafia. Of course, you are not me, but that's what I was thinking of. It has especially bothered me how you can't seem to explain why your read on me has changed. It looks like a scum who needs to scumread someone, but can't figure out a reason. That's what a lot of it comes off as. Someone who is having a hard time making reads because they already know what's true.

Yeah, I'm being a cagey asshole, but it's necessary for what I'm trying to do.

Quite frankly, the reason I moved you down was because I found your scumread of me to be underexplained and rather abrupt - you went from lightly townreading me on D1 to scumreading me on D2 for reasons that I couldn't really find other than "she isn't here enough". Given that quite a bit of the rest of the thread, most notably the very loud and very influential Flavor Leaf, was scumreading me as well, this set off red flags; to give me a thin townread only to flip it around when I suddenly look pushable is... not a good look.

The reason I wasn't forthright about this when I initially mentioned moving you down was because I knew that me posting 50 times in a row was gonna force people to update their read on me one way or another, and I wanted to see where the threadstate would settle, and where you would land in it. Unfortunately, less has changed in terms of threadstate than I'd hoped, since FL is still pushing me, but even given that I don't necessarily hate your response here? I think the way you're equating my detatchedness to how you play wolf is a read that comes from a villager a fair bit more often than it comes from a wolf - I think wolves

generally

rely more on universal tells, because a lot of the time they're too self-conscious to say "this is how I wolf" while actively wolfing.

So I guess I'm back to NM=>KD=>cry because I'm bad at the game? I should really figure out if TRing FL is actually a good idea or not.

why can't you just be scummy. this is too hard.

[tris]

ah yeah that's right

there was an undercurrent of low-level annoyance beneath his posting; think he was lowkey frustrated that his contributions thus far had been misunderstood/downplayed, in a "why do you not get what i'm talking about" kind of way

I don't think that was what I thought you were thinking, but still. That post does look like one coming from someone who had an actual thought.

[tris]

where did the blush come from?

[tris]

i feel lost now. Not_Mafia's got to be mafia then, otherwise i've completely gone astray. i need to do some kind of reevaluation of my reads. something doesn't add up

[tris]

i haven't really done much iso'ing, but i think it's time i do that.

[tris]

bleh

i'm stuck in this mental rut where i really REALLY wanna see a Not_Mafia flip and it's monopolizing my entire worldview

because if he's town, there are two players in this game that i'm just HARD misreading

and i don't like that.

ugh, this is mirroring my thoughts. Which makes me even more conflicted, because how can you be town too

[tris]

The moon needs to be removed from the thread title

WHO TOOK MY PAGETOP

Please remove the moon from the thread title

I’ve been wondering if this could possibly be some kind of PR soft but I haven’t a clue what it could possibly be crumbing other than possible flavour?

~M

for a bit early on day one, the thread had the moon marking that usually indicates night.

[tris]

maybe i am being pocketed because of how i'm empathizing with her statements.

time to actually do that ISOing i said i would

[tris]

NM is fadeable. If Not Mafia isn’t venged, they will go down still.

Ampharos red flip also would effectively clear both myself and NM.

would not a NM red flip clear Amy?

[tris]

i really feel like amy is town actually. after reading her iso. day one is still whatever, but my gut is telling me that today's posting comes from town. i'm actually townreading her more than i have any point before.

ahhh, but there's still that paranoia that she's pocketing me ahhhh.

1222, 1239, 1298, and 1299 especially are the sources of the townread. it just seems so genuine.

[tris]

maybe gamma? maybe jjh? i need to take a better look at them

[tris]

Because Ampharos is playing in an extreme scum beneficial away, saying what people want to hear, and pushing for a NM kill.

do you think she was saying what i want to hear knowingly?

[tris]

i am, but we haven't talked much in the neighborhood

[tris]

Not Mafia flips town, who’s scum, Hayasaka?

I don't have a reason to think he is flipping town so I don't have a reason to care.
I think the literal entire game went to hide ever since I gladiated so I honestly only have town read on a few slots that I find are poking in in interesting ways.

Tris, You, Gamma, Amy probably in that exact order if NM flips town although I am not actually thinking about this very much. I think it's Tris from the way they are approaching the phase even if Amy just flips town.
On a Tris scum flip after that, I wouldn't just go you -> Gamma -> Amy, at the point I'd have 2 curveballs from my current stance and would need to reevaluate.

I think no one in this thread has a reason to town read NM and I am not shooting Tris on the back of that.

i think my reading comprehension is failing here

[tris]

i am, but we haven't talked much in the neighborhood

what have you talked about there? don't need a play-by-play, just the things covered in a broad sense

the most we've done has been to talk a little about the implications DnD's red flip on FL's alignment that night. I was thinking it suggested he is town, while Amy thought he might be someone who would bus.

[tris]

You should have just crumbed your role rather than straight up say it. You likely would have lived and then if I were scum you would have caught me out real early.

For what it’s worth, I can only talk to dead player’s at night.

I tried to get a hood mass claim but Hya shot it down and no one was biting.

I’ll trust my gut from now on. I never hard gut tr you in PA.

Well, your death confiscums Tris then if we venge Amy. Well, I thought you might have been in a hood with Hya, which is why you didn’t believe the hood was real.

HURT: Amy

I promise to avenge you if you die. If scum is Amy/Tris, I wonder if they were informed about a TA in the setup?

~M

what? what exactly confscums me? and why are you back to wanting Amy?

[tris]

Tris or Amphy if either of you are online please confirm ASAP if PTs have daychat or not

yes

[tris]

Also, I never called Amy/Tris “confiscum”, you were the only one I said that too, so possible overreaction for Tris to say that?

You should have just crumbed your role rather than straight up say it. You likely would have lived and then if I were scum you would have caught me out real early.

For what it’s worth, I can only talk to dead player’s at night.

I tried to get a hood mass claim but Hya shot it down and no one was biting.

I’ll trust my gut from now on. I never hard gut tr you in PA.

Well, your death confiscums Tris then if we venge Amy.

Well, I thought you might have been in a hood with Hya, which is why you didn’t believe the hood was real.

HURT: Amy

I promise to avenge you if you die. If scum is Amy/Tris, I wonder if they were informed about a TA in the setup?

~M

which is a sentence i still don't understand

[tris]

oh ok. you've spotted it

[tris]

i just don't think the why i've talked about amy is something i would be able to fake when reading a partner as mafia. but, that's probably not useful for you. as that's self meta.

[tris]

[quote="In post 1661Tris sr Amy on D1 really never made any sense to me, because she was pushing her so hard and Amy seemed pretty townie on D1.
[/quote]
i never scumread her day 1. let alone was pushing her hard. at one point i even lightly townread her.

[tris]

i just don't think the why i've talked about amy is something i would be able to fake when reading a partner as mafia. but, that's probably not useful for you. as that's self meta.

Who do you think is scum if NM flips red and who, if he flips green?

~M

he better flip red, because otherwise i'm townreading way too much. I haven't really considered that world that much.

If he flips green, then maybe Gamma? that's mostly because i've forgotten about why i was townreading him. And my reasons for townreading others feel firmer. oh and there's also jjh. i still need to go reread gamma as well as others but i'm mostly waiting on the flip before i do that.

all of that was kind of ignoring FL, which i have a tendency to do because he makes my brain hurt sometimes, but also, i know some ways he might be confirmed, so i'm not worrying about that too much. although, i am a little suspicious of the claim.

[tris]

i just don't think the why i've talked about amy is something i would be able to fake when reading a partner as mafia. but, that's probably not useful for you. as that's self meta.

If it’s Gamma, then her positioning on Amy seems strange if their buddies. He initally hard defends her, then hard srs her.

So Amy/Gamma, extremely unlikely.

Gamma can only be scum with you or FL if 3 scum.

Amy can’t be scum with FL and doesn’t really make sense with Gamma.

So Gamma or FL flip clears Amy.

I really think FL is town though, because it’s an extremely risky claim if he’s scum here.

~M

this all is acting like NM is gonna flip town. i don't think he is

[tris]

like to me, Amy's decision just seems to come from not knowing what to do with a neighborhood

if anything, it seems almost a little town-indicative.

I'll take tris, Kaname Date, Gamma Emerald, Hayasaka, and Ampharos for town right now

what exactly makes Amy town?

You completely contradicted yourself on your Amy read?

What changed?

~M

that was a possibility. i wasn't really confident that it is town indicative. it was the thinnest thing ever. my point there wasn't to promote her as town, i was arguing against the idea that her outing the neighborhood is scum indicative. and i thought that if it indicates anything it would be town. but really, i didn't get much of an alignment read from that action.

[tris]

huh, that was quite a turnaround.

[tris]

i guess we're actually not locked into Not_Mafia now? I don't want to go anywhere else though.

[tris]

does anyone want to talk to me about anything? i'm a bit unfocused right not.

[tris]

I lean on it being Gamma/NM now. I scum read FL because I found a lot of evidence of him either wanting to or talking about utilizing quick hammers as scum.
With minimal evidence of him wanting to do it as town, when I should have found 3x as many instances of town him doing it.

But his role made him want to be on the wagon so I sorta get it?

This is why we’re dying tonight because Gamma doesn’t want us to reveal the most likely positive result we’re likely to get on him.

I’m only saying if game doesn’t end. I only think FL could be scum here if game doesn’t end after NM/Gamma flips. Can you unvote please? Auro will probably give his thought tomorrow. He can’t today, :/

Please someone - anyone unvote?

Thanks.

~M

Maybe don’t jump to fucking conclusions because it looks like the past 5 pages is you screaming about me being partnered with NM (after having reasoned D&D wouldn’t have positioned their buddy like they did with me btw), the reason I’m “floundering” is because I honestly don’t know how to not look tied to NM at this stage of the game. Investigate me, fuck it! At least then I won’t have to deal with you acting like it’s this obvious thing when it’s really not.
Also, if NM is scum, either after I’m cleared or after you vote me off D3 because

VMP died to frame me,

look into jjh and BEF, and any others who tried to pin me to NM, they should not be trusted imo.

Say what? Did you literally just accuse me of “dying to frame you”? Um like hello, I don’t actually die unless scum freaking tries to you know, actually KILL me and protectives don’t save me. Is this an actual scumclaim here? You’re defacto CONFIRMING that I will be tonight’s scum kill? Lolwut?

How ‘bout it @FL, do you think this might qualify for post of the year or what? Lmfaoooo

~Mars

it would be the mafia that would doing the framing. not you.

[tris]

has anyone played with dr pepper before this?

[tris]

because, i feel like it would hard to know exactly how to play around him considering that he doesn't say a lot.

[tris]

Like honestly I feel there’s actually a lot that should make me town, but it seems no one is bothering to look for it so fuck it why not just speed the process up.
Plus I have a plan. Some could say it’s the greatest.

sorry for being lazy right now.

----------------------------------------------------------

i don't think we should do gamma today. i want to remove not_mafia. but if gamma is a serious possibility here, i guess i should stop being lazy.

[tris]

i know my flavor matches my abilities.

[tris]

oh no. i have a hard time reading these kind of things

[tris]

ok, i don't have to read nancy here. she's just town in all likelihood. i've just got to look at gamma's part

[tris]

I have to roleblock Hayasaka to make it so DrP is in my medium.

My second vote needs to be on DP.

no, don't do this. doesn't she get some benefit for gladiating when she did? and you're probably just negating that.

[tris]

can't you just let put both votes on dr pepper?

[tris]

what prevents you from just using both on dr p?

[tris]

Like honestly I feel there’s actually a lot that should make me town, but it seems no one is bothering to look for it so fuck it why not just speed the process up.
Plus I have a plan. Some could say it’s the greatest.

sorry for being lazy right now.

----------------------------------------------------------

i don't think we should do gamma today. i want to remove not_mafia. but if gamma is a serious possibility here, i guess i should stop being lazy.

I want everyone who isn't NM and DrP to give a rating of whether they'd mind me going via the venge

i want not_mafia

[tris]

so, the venge is in? this day is actually over now?

[tris]

i really think not_mafia is scum, i don't agree with flavor's points

[tris]

whatever

[tris]

i should elaborate on how the claim came about

i asked her in the hood what her flavor was

to which her response was "are you <flavor>? because that's what i am"

so if she's scum she KNEW she has the same flavor as me and claimed it anyways

i think THAT's what i find interesting about the situation

and i'm not 100% sure how to parse it

it just made sense that we might. I didn't think about it before because of reasons, but when you were asking what i was, i realized what was probably going on and why you would be asking that.

[tris]

i agree with what haya is saying. your argument for not_mafia town doesn't make sense.

[tris]

that's some nice music

[tris]

It's funny how FL accidently saved the town.
I tracked Amy to Tris.

Someone think about that for me before I gladiate

I can see what conclusion you're drawing here, but i'm not a killer. Still, it doesn't make sense that mafia would kill Amy. could this be a result of gamma busdriving? does that clear gamma. which in that case, who actually is mafia then? Flavor and jjh? are you actually mafia or something? that can't be right.

did the mafia actually decide to kill amy? that's a very odd move.

well, i guess we should hear what gamma has to say

[tris]

also, I am the Lovers of course

[tris]

well, i don't know how the results ended up as they are, but i guess gamma is probably just scum. flavor leaf will be confirmed or not so we don't need to worry about him. shoot i keep not thinking about jjh. i guess i'll do that soon.

i wanna put my vote here VOTE: Gamma.

i posted about my reading of gamma in neighborhoods last night. the summery is while i liked day 1. day 2 he wasn't doing anything at first, and then he just latched onto flavor's read of amy for most of the rest of the day.

pedit: i got confirmation of VMP's I do last night, Haya didn't realize she had to do that again, so that one didn't happen, but it didn't matter.

[tris]

who's a rber?

[tris]

I'm just looking at flips and this setup may be role madness but it looks like it's got a heavy emphasis on day play

If we assume scum!tris, traffic analyser can never hard guilty scum and gets plenty of false positives. Most actions appear relatively weak and seem to involve moving targets about or being untargetable. The tracker is probably the strongest role claimed so far, mechanically speaking

It could just be 2 scum tbh

That’s why I thought it pointless to TA you when I realized that Gamma’s role if real and if scum, would be the most likely to bus drive you, so I though our best shot was hoping it was a fakeclaim and we get a positive, so it points to bus drive being real but way too much town power with Hya, us, FL for Gamma to be town BD. Now Tris claims she got confirmation on our “I do” but why haven’t we? Wouldn’t we both receive confirmation on that @Tris? I checked and double checked that it was received and that much was confirmed but nothing else, so it sounds really suspect to me that we wouldn’t get a confirmation but you would.

I think it’s Tris/Gamma

I tr everyone else and would also Tris if it weren’t for Amy flip, Hya’s claim and the whole “I do” thing not adding up.

There’s also DnD being extremely concerned with FL’s Tris read and DnD never really commenting on her and leaving them out of their reads. I need to ask Amy post-game how she figured it out.

~M

i guess the role is based on the other person trusting you or something. why would i make up a weird thing like that?

[tris]

I'm just looking at flips and this setup may be role madness but it looks like it's got a heavy emphasis on day play

If we assume scum!tris, traffic analyser can never hard guilty scum and gets plenty of false positives. Most actions appear relatively weak and seem to involve moving targets about or being untargetable. The tracker is probably the strongest role claimed so far, mechanically speaking

It could just be 2 scum tbh

That’s why I thought it pointless to TA you when I realized that Gamma’s role if real and if scum, would be the most likely to bus drive you, so I though our best shot was hoping it was a fakeclaim and we get a positive, so it points to bus drive being real but way too much town power with Hya, us, FL for Gamma to be town BD. Now Tris claims she got confirmation on our “I do” but why haven’t we? Wouldn’t we both receive confirmation on that @Tris? I checked and double checked that it was received and that much was confirmed but nothing else, so it sounds really suspect to me that we wouldn’t get a confirmation but you would.

I think it’s Tris/Gamma

I tr everyone else and would also Tris if it weren’t for Amy flip, Hya’s claim and the whole “I do” thing not adding up.

There’s also DnD being extremely concerned with FL’s Tris read and DnD never really commenting on her and leaving them out of their reads. I need to ask Amy post-game how she figured it out.

~M

i guess the role is based on the other person trusting you or something. why would i make up a weird thing like that?

I don’t know but why do you only have the “I do” confirmation but not us?

my theory is that it's like you're supposed to trust me that it's working or something. idk

i guess no one believes me here, but i feel like you guys will be able to figure it out anyway. i'll try to do what i can while i'm still here

[tris]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

[tris]

ok, i haven't read all of that, but did FL just claim to be a jester?

[tris]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I don't believe you

[tris]

but, like this game isn't bastard

[tris]

sorry, I need to catch up. does anyone want to tell me something important first?

[tris]

hello

[tris]

because you just don't get told about it. like do you think the mod is going to confirm my role to you?

[tris]

because you just don't get told about it. like do you think the mod is going to confirm my role to you?

Since Amy was self-redirector, we have absolutely no proof that you protected Hya. Why? Why wouldn’t I get told about it?

You forget, that we STILL haven’t received any confirmation of your claim, so yeah it sounds kind of fishy to me.

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

why should you be told about it?

[tris]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

Wait, so Hya was only protected N1 according to you and us LAST night? So, neither Hya or us are protected tonight, assuming this isn’t completely bogus, which I have serious doubts about anyway.

BEF should optimally self-direct a commute on himself today, since he has no NAs tonight and KD has made it abundantly clear he has no interest in being neighbourized. Tris cant re-neighbourize either Hya or us and she’s pushing FL, so that completely destroys Hya’s argument for fading an exonerated slot over Tris.

Why am I literally the only one to consistently catch these things?

each night that we PM the "I do" it happens

[tris]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

[tris]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

Wait, so Hya was only protected N1 according to you and us LAST night? So, neither Hya or us are protected tonight, assuming this isn’t completely bogus, which I have serious doubts about anyway.

BEF should optimally self-direct a commute on himself today, since he has no NAs tonight and KD has made it abundantly clear he has no interest in being neighbourized. Tris cant re-neighbourize either Hya or us and she’s pushing FL, so that completely destroys Hya’s argument for fading an exonerated slot over Tris.

Why am I literally the only one to consistently catch these things?

each night that we PM the "I do" it happens

Can it work on more than 1 person?

it works with the people i've neighborized

[tris]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

for one thing, this is not a bastard game right?

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

why couldn't it be gamma? could you elaborate? maybe it's jjh or something. probably one of those two.

[tris]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

And what motive does scum!FL have to kill Amy here - a slot that was hard townreading him and also a slot that he had damn good reason to have no fear from her N2 NAs?

~M

i'm not sure. i think she was being townread by most other people at that point.

[tris]

also, what if he thought she was a protective role and wanted to get rid of that?