Yellowstone

[JacksonVirgo]

N2 Weak Visitor check on DGB.

hm. so basically either DGB is ascetic scum or town?
UNVOTE:

I never even considered Ascetic tbh

[JacksonVirgo]

I didn't since if my soft was caught I could be led into a false-negative with a scum roleblocker, I was already confident they were Town I just wanted to be sure. It was a risk I was willing to take but it paid off.

That doesn't make sense, you might as well just treat DGB as conftown anyway if you're willing to die for no benefit if it's scum.

My town plays are often unorthodox but make sense to myself which is all that matters to me. DGB was not confirmed Town at all, but they were a TR and I would rather confirm that than have the paranoia sitting on the back of my mind the entire game.

[JacksonVirgo]

ascetic scum

Hmm

I do think that ascetic scum makes a lot of sense with the flavor.

Mind explaining what you see?

[JacksonVirgo]

With DGB and myself being town-tier. And Noraa forcing a 1v1 with DGB, Noraa is confirmed scum here unless scum just hasn't appeared yet at the same time. And that's why I think they're trying to set up a way to WIFOM save their buddy going into tomrrow.

honestly, no.
this is mean of me to bring up but I'm about to do it anyways.

In So many bats, I was scum. You TRed me hard.
In mini 2177, I was town. You SRed me hard.

My point : please understand that you are bad at reading me. And I'm seriously trying my best to word this nicely but you simply can't read me.

I understand I may be bad at reading you, but mechanically you are/were scum here with your own logic from my perspective. Care to explain why you would not be?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm at a 2/3 scum pile. Infinity/Noraa appeared to be pushing the same agenda where Mark is not. I am not sure if scum!Noraa would playing the seperation game to have their buddy succeed in tomorrows LYLO or directly pushing for DGB alongside their buddy. That's my current read in a nutshell

[JacksonVirgo]

If I am wrong about the 1v1 between DGB/Noraa it could be Mark/Infinity doing the same thing although right now using your own logic Noraa you are the likely scum here.

[JacksonVirgo]

Your own logic was that when you voted, DGB was never speed-hammered meaning scum is within you two. And since DGB is cleared both from mechanics and my check you are the scum unless scum were outside you both and weren't coordinated at that time to hammer. Meanwhile I want everyone to unvote if they haven't alreaydy.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm pretty sure we've established that one of DGB and noraa is scum.

I'll have to look back at your timings with MarkyPoo and Noraa's vote first.

[JacksonVirgo]

ascetic scum

Hmm

I do think that ascetic scum makes a lot of sense with the flavor.

Mind explaining what you see?

An ascetic is someone who lives in the woods, and a lot of yellowstone is woods. It could make sense.

I still don't have a good explanation for why scum no killed n2 except for DGB being scum. But if DGB is scum, I think JV is town weirdly enough. Rolecop/tracker mason + motion detector mason + fruit vendor + PGO vs. ascetic/rb and two goons is too scumsided.

Cross-killing is always a possibility remember.

[JacksonVirgo]

Mark and Infinity's posts are all 20+ minutes apart from each other, they could be uncoordinated, albeit unlikely that it's the case.

[JacksonVirgo]

If I am wrong about the 1v1 between DGB/Noraa it could be Mark/Infinity doing the same thing although right now using your own logic Noraa you are the likely scum here.

No. My logic is DGB/Noraa must have scum and its DGB.

So you're saying your logic only applies to scum!DGB when it actually applies to both. And you're saying this backwards logic when you're the one incriminated by your own logic? Do you see the issue here

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm at a 2/3 scum pile. Infinity/Noraa appeared to be pushing the same agenda where Mark is not. I am not sure if scum!Noraa would playing the seperation game to have their buddy succeed in tomorrows LYLO or directly pushing for DGB alongside their buddy. That's my current read in a nutshell

I mean here's the thing: if I were scum, I'd never push the town RBer. Sure momrangal thought they were scum. But that doesn't matter. Pushing a town pr comes at huge risks. I'd push any vt over DGB. Vt are just easier to push in every single possible way.

I came in today and immediately voted. That is not scum!me. Scum!noraa is going to come in, test the waters a bit, and then choose a soft spot in the town to park my vote.

Never a big fan of self-meta.

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa continues to contradict themselves. And I've already said why Guillo was likely Town regardless of the roleblock.

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa if it's Infinity/Mark I will hate you forever. Please unvote until we make a decision

[JacksonVirgo]

ALso @Noraa. Which of Infinity/Mark do you think is scummier

[JacksonVirgo]

Sure stats don't lie, but game by game basis you can manipulate it easy when you need to win. I trust scum-tells and never town-tells for that reason.

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa continues to contradict themselves. And I've already said why Guillo was likely Town regardless of the roleblock.

Hmm?

Me and mark absolutely could've hammered if we were the scumteam so that's not a possibility.

JV, I still don't think you have an explanation for n2 that makes sense. Noraa could've easily been roleblocked, meaning that DGB would have a fake guilty on her. So no killing or killing flea are immensely stupid if DGB is town and noraa is scum.

I've already debunked that you posted 20 minutes apart, you could have not been online to coordinate a hammer so that's wrong and manipulative tbf. You expect me to have an explanation for where the N2 kill went? How am I supposed to know more than you, I know I have a clear on DGB and am making reads accordingly scum likely cross-killed to secure an easier elim on Vax.

[JacksonVirgo]

ALso @Noraa. Which of Infinity/Mark do you think is scummier

Probably mark atm.

Didn't you say that you didn't think Momrangal's reads were right, which was DGB/Mark iirc. Why say you agree with them now?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm probably ready to just speed-yeet Noraa just out of spite. I'm thinking Infinity/Noraa tbh as I don't think DGB claimed if they've used all their shots and would be afraid of being blocked in a LYLO kill.

[JacksonVirgo]

ALso @Noraa. Which of Infinity/Mark do you think is scummier

Probably mark atm.

Didn't you say that you didn't think Momrangal's reads were right, which was DGB/Mark iirc. Why say you agree with them now?

I did not roleblock anyone last night.

Did you mean to quote this?

[JacksonVirgo]

This is the crux of why Noraa is scum here.

Noraa LAMIST's and says that DGB is confirmed scum as they were not hammered in a 1v1. They said specifically that them and DGB were in a 1v1.
I clear DGB, and say mechanical reasonings as to why they're not a scum roleblocker. Noraa unvotes here
I call them out via their own logic saying that Noraa is the scum within the 1v1, Noraa retracts saying that it doesn't apply both ways when it does.
Infinity pushes that Ascetic makes sense.
Noraa begins to push the 1v1 again, even though if it doesn't apply to Noraa it doesn't apply to DGB.

They're acting opportunistic as all fuck and their read is no deeper than the kiddie pool.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am a regular roleblocker.

Ok I didn't remember seeing this but apparently they lied about their claim earlier.

Misrep, that was a response to being asked if they were a Jailkeeper/Alien or regular roleblocker

Does anyone disagree that we win if we lim me, noraa, me, and vax?

I want to start with Vax.

Had to point this out. If vax flipped town that day, we would've speed yeeted guillo the next day so this actually looks really bad. + town RBer would want guillo dead over vax

I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS MANY TIMES WHY GUILLS WAS LIKELY TOWN, yet you keep IGNORING IT

The rest were "WTF"'s and "YoU wOuLdNt TaLk To YoUr ScUmReAd LiKe ThIs"

[JacksonVirgo]

This is the crux of why Noraa is scum here.

Noraa LAMIST's and says that DGB is confirmed scum as they were not hammered in a 1v1. They said specifically that them and DGB were in a 1v1.
I clear DGB, and say mechanical reasonings as to why they're not a scum roleblocker. Noraa unvotes here
I call them out via their own logic saying that Noraa is the scum within the 1v1, Noraa retracts saying that it doesn't apply both ways when it does.
Infinity pushes that Ascetic makes sense.
Noraa begins to push the 1v1 again, even though if it doesn't apply to Noraa it doesn't apply to DGB.

They're acting opportunistic as all fuck and their read is no deeper than the kiddie pool.

Ur bad and thats really all I have to say here :/

This is another example of scumNoraa exploiting a townie's naturally shifting reads and doubts and painting them as scummy, while in fact consistent, linear reads are a scumtell.

+1

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa continues to contradict themselves. And I've already said why Guillo was likely Town regardless of the roleblock.

Hmm?

Me and mark absolutely could've hammered if we were the scumteam so that's not a possibility.

JV, I still don't think you have an explanation for n2 that makes sense. Noraa could've easily been roleblocked, meaning that DGB would have a fake guilty on her. So no killing or killing flea are immensely stupid if DGB is town and noraa is scum.

I've already debunked that you posted 20 minutes apart, you could have not been online to coordinate a hammer so that's wrong and manipulative tbf. You expect me to have an explanation for where the N2 kill went? How am I supposed to know more than you, I know I have a clear on DGB and am making reads accordingly scum likely cross-killed to secure an easier elim on Vax.

JV listen to me. Say you're me and you're scum with noraa. You're going into n2. DGB is a town RB and it SRs noraa. In what universe do you no kill or kill flea? If there's a missing kill and noraa is blocked then she gets guiltied AND we lose our NK. It makes zero fucking sense.

Fair point about the mark thing I guess, but it seems like I could've just waited another 20 minutes for mark to arrive but /shrug

@DGB Why did you block guillo n2 instead of noraa?

I don't recall who DGB was heavy scum-reading prior to N2. Also maybe the cross-kill was accidental, this is a WIFOM argument.

[JacksonVirgo]

JV why was guillo likely town despite the RB? I missed it

You were the only one that was reciprocating my read. What are the chances killing scum was blocked twice in a row, while a killing role does a kill was my logic from earlier. Go back to see it in more depth, you saying you forgot it when it was your logic too is concerning

pedit: I am not voting DGB. Make a case on Mark

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not voting until we make a decision I don't want lolhammers in LYLO

[JacksonVirgo]

@Noraa can you be quick with the Mark read. I don't want to waste time

[JacksonVirgo]

Said it before and I'll say it again, I'm 90% sure DGB has to be town based on setup spec.

Because people are ignoring it lol

I misremembered from these.

[JacksonVirgo]

Infinity why were you 90% sure then but not now?

[JacksonVirgo]

@Noraa can you be quick with the Mark read. I don't want to waste time

No I need to read a lot of stuff. also I'm bad at casing so its gonna take me a while.

That's depressing lol, I'll wait then I guess

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll be back in an hour or two. NOBODY VOTE!

Infinity cna you make a case on Mark as well. Also I don't fully understand your last post

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not gonna make a case on mark, I don't think he's been scummy this game.

Then who do you think is the solve? Or is it Mark via PoE

[JacksonVirgo]

I thought you were making a case on Mark

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll read that soon Noraa, but don't forget to case mark

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not going to willingly let 48 hours pass by, condense it at least into a general paragraph or two and make the larger one later.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not going to willingly let 48 hours pass by, condense it at least into a general paragraph or two and make the larger one later.

I mean I have to sleep in like 2 hours. And the deadline is like 7 days. If you really want those hours back, we can ask for a deadline extension later.

It takes like a minute to make a generalized case, even if it's from memory.

[JacksonVirgo]

fwiw, I'm mostly looking at eliminating within Infinity/Noraa/MarkyPoo and I'm probably not going to elim DGB unless you come up with fool-proof logic which I haven't seen yet.

[JacksonVirgo]

@DGB/@MarkyPoo

, who do you think is the scum-team?

[JacksonVirgo]

I wrote this with bias and pretty snarkily. I know my role pm is green and am being sassy as fuck about it and I realize it might come off as super shady. Jacko, try to read this with an open mind and with a null not scum read on me. Don't confbias yourself into a town loss bc trust me, you will make us lose by confbiasing.

I'll try and keep a level head.

Spoiler:

Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

I see the exact opposite. Complete lack of focus, seriousness, or thinking, wrecking havoc.

When I was scum with her I was glad to let her roll the town with that BS. Here, not so much.

starts out with STRONG SR on me

Is this Scum AI?

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
JacksonVirgo
Guillotina
Marky Mark
Horsewoman
Flea the Magician

NULL

AGamblingPig
Nono
Momrangal

SCUM

Toogeloo
Noraa
LlamaMama
no elim

Note that Pig is a null and Horse and Flea are TRs

I can probably already see the point you're trying to make here, that their reads changed dramatically towards a town elimination? If I am right, what stops Town from just being misdirected or just wrong? Town being right or wrong is not AI at all

@Guillotina
I am on board with 3 out of 5 of your scum reads.

DGB disagrees with the Horsewoman and Pig SRs

I don't know the real context behind this so I can't really comment on it.

VOTE: Momrangal

why not

Wow ok so Noraa is confscum but nah momrangal wagon is gaining heat

Would scum not be more likely to explain voting off of SR's? As to not be called out like what you are now, Town are more loosely tied, especially D1

Noraa is caught scum lashing out, calling it now.

Where'd this come from? From the butthole of a momrangal SR?

Noraa is caught scum lashing out, calling it now.

you've thought I was scum every game now.
maybe reassess ur reads.
u thought I was scum in trials and Cakes large normal.

You were my scum buddy in Death Curse. Tell me. what did my play look like there. and don't be snarky with ur answer. Fairies and bubbles and toadstools don't cut it.

How about the soul read?

99%

suddenly the strong strong SR of "Complete lack of focus, seriousness, or thinking, wrecking havoc." has turned into a simple and small soul read. Convenient.

I will point out that some of my scumreads have flaked and been replaced, so I will definitely re-evaluate.

Oh oh?(Pig except DGB forgot that they hadn't even SRed pig prior to this :O pure tmi straight out of that scummy brain)

This is straight misrepresentation on DGB's words. They were specifically references noelim and llama who were both their SRs and were Infinity/Vax's predecessors respectively. In no way, at all, did they reference Piggy but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Vax explain why you townread Horse and why scum don’t take her free miselim (if she is town doubtful) when they could have easily done so under the guise of “end the day quick to hide the likely other mason”.

*shrug* Maybe scum is already on it. Maybe scum is scared to take a hard position (like nora on DGB).

My position on Noraa is a lot harder than hers is on me, but for some reason everyone shrugs off all the scummy things she posts... I was cheering it when I was scum with her, but she's pulling the same trick in this game, but I'm town thus time and I'm not having it.

It's frustrating.

So frustrating and scummy that DGB isn't even voting me (because consensus is elsewhere)

I missed the Mason claim. UNVOTE:

You'd think here they'd go thru with that SR on me but NAHHHH

Again, not having votes/reads line up is not a scum-tell. They never hid the fact they had a SR on you so what's your point here? Them not voting a SR is scummy? Why did the mason do it recently? Did they flip scum too?

@Mathblade Yeah no one got scum vibes from her in Death Scroll either.

Say what? I was nearly flashwagoned day 1.

Can't say anything wasn't in that game.

@Mathblade Yeah no one got scum vibes from her in Death Scroll either.

Link me for later?

And if no one got scum vibes from that game wouldn’t take make her more than likely town since people are getting scum vibes?

I'm pretty much the only player who wants to yeet her, with occasional assists from others.

Uh huh. You haven't even voted me once outside of the rvs one

I am really liking the new replacements in terms of game health and activity. The only sore point continues to be AGamblingPig. His posts aren't shining a bright townie light on the game.

Oh

Did you have some form of revelation here or?

I'm sorry, I just can't townread fleaaa here. Playstyle is one thing but fae's blatantly anti-town behaviour is another. And furthermore I've read faer case on guillotina - it is

awful

. I liked faer case on me, it seemed genuine. But all of that analysis has gone by the wayside when fae is talking about guillotina. Completely artificial push. Fleaa has got to be scum here.

Bleeergh

I didn't read the case on Guillotina. Why is it awful? Maybe I'm wrong about Flea.

so quick to back outta a TR :O

I am on mobile right now by infinity iso feels more like walking on eggshells around the other players.

I see mollifying other players, weak attacks, tip toeing around. More a supplicant than a scumhunter.

Ah yes now that consensus thinks infinity is scum(mostly my fault; sorry infinity), you run over to join us

This comment seems really pockety to Infinity. Enough so that I am thinking maybe Noraa/Mark? Since Noraa wouldn't need to pocket their buddy and may be lowkey throwing themselves out of the bus to yeet Infinity tomorrow? Weak read will have to look further into that

Then help us get a flip

Horsewoman, explain why you are picking on me?

Both MathBlade and Monrangal are saying we should have a flip. I just said I'll try.

Are you misunderstanding something?

Low and behold. Consensus is shifting towards ... yup Horsewoman you guessed it. This TR is gonna flip soon too.

Then help us get a flip

Horsewoman, explain why you are picking on me?

Both MathBlade and Monrangal are saying we should have a flip. I just said I'll try.

Are you misunderstanding something?

momrangal is confirmed town due to claim. mathblade is pushing to flip people who he actually scumreads. you aren't. it's still an anti-town behaviour/thing to say for all three of you.

WHO AM I TRYING TO FLIP??????

I AM NOT TRYING TO FLIP ANYONE FOR THE SAKE OF FLIPPING ESPECIALLY NOT MY TOWN READS

What are you not getting?

I need to take a deep breath and walk off, I am becoming a toxic presence.

uh oh it seems its totally flipped.

--pedit @JV yeah, that interaction if anything looks bad on HW's 1167 as it takes what seemed to me to be a light-hearted post from DGB and twists it to imply that DGB is flip-hunting

Her stubborn refusal to walk it back when I pointed it out crashed my town read into a pole.

Oh excuse me. Here was the OFFICIAL flip of that TR to a SR

Horsewoman was scummy at their core, I still believe that the elimination was based regardless that they flipped green. I don't understand what's scummy about the switch

Mathbkade caught Infinity for the wrong reason.

Oh haha yes this SR has to be kept alive.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Ah the much awaited

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

Now that is VERY interesting and I may have some relevant information.

Wtf is this reaction. A normal reaction is "Oh well if this is the case Pig is scum" Lets also note that DGB has never pushed Pig nor vocally SRed him for long periods of time. NEVER.

Town!DGB wouldn't know for sure, and claiming at the wrong time may lead to Town getting ass wrecked I am not sure their state of mind but I wouldn't be so quick to instantly claim when there's more information that could be gained prior to claiming.

[JacksonVirgo]

That didn't really change my read on them at all. I fail to see the small chance that they're Ascetic over the fact you're contradicting your own logic to your own advantage.

[JacksonVirgo]

Now that I've brought that back up. Why does the 1v1 only apply to DGB being scum and not that you are if DGB is not? Don't say that you know that you're Town as that doesn't change anything from an outside perspective as anyone can simply say that. This is LYLO, all scum needs is a successful elimination within a 1v1 which you were actively pushing. Because if you continue to say that it's a 1v1 with DGB and that it doesn't work the other way around, it wasn't a 1v1 to begin with.

[JacksonVirgo]

See I am torn between who Noraa's partner would be out of Mark/Infinity. The latter seems likely if they were trying to push an agenda hard, the former seems a little less likely if they were pushing an agenda to win today but if Noraa was trying to set up Infinity and play the long game that would make it the perfect case. I don't know what the fuck to think and I hate being in this position and I thought it would be way fucking easier with a clear but I even

just

started to have some doubts about that now to be completely honest when I just thought about me getting pocketed hard, the only one I am currently most confident in is that Noraa is just the most likely scum in the group so I'll probably end up voting there. I am still going to wait for the Mark case as I could be following a blind tunnel, if DGB is scum pulling the wool over my eyes maybe it is better to leave the direct 1v1 and eliminate within the other 1v1 (Infinity/Mark) so that when I die tonight, assuming I do since who else would, you will have the fully confirmed public knowledge of my check instead of some paranoia of a DGB/JV partnership if that still exists. Although since there's almost certainly one scum within Noraa/DGB they could both be and eliminating in Mark/Infinity might be a straight loss. FUCK

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think any of the cases any of you are making is from scum!DGB more than town!DGB. And I don't think they would have made the bus/gambit early D1 if they weren't prepared to do so and by their actions, I don't think they were pushing a scum agenda and thus wasn't a bus and thus isn't scum. Scum Ascetic doesn't seem to fit this role list, it shows no real use outside of a direct counter to my role which doesn't seem like it's really needed as my role is weak and anti-town to begin with. That in addition of thinking there's no scum roleblocker and that N1 kill did not happen leads to a Town!DGB. And if there's no scum roleblocker and they are claiming Roleblocker with a block on Gills N2 and not me, means that my visit actually hit DGB and thus they are Town. I'm not letting baseless paranoia make me lose a 1v1, so I am treating DGB as almost confirmed Town for today I think and thus eliminating one of Noraa/Infinity/Mark today no questions. If you think DGB is scum with one of the pair, make a case on both but I'll likely just vote one of the trio. If you think I am doing confbias to TR DGB then feel free to say something but that still means scums within the trio and thus make a case on them. Trying to solve three is much harder than solving 2 from your perspective.

[JacksonVirgo]

all scum needs is a successful elimination within a 1v1 which you were actively pushing.

so instead of pushing who I think is scum, I'm supposed to sit around and twiddle my thumbs?

Where did I say that, I've been pushing you to make the case on Mark.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why does it not occur to you that DGB might be ascetic goon?

I have been thinking that, part of my paranoia but I don't think it fits in this role list.

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa I am actually getting sick of you putting words in my mouth

[JacksonVirgo]

Scum Ascetic doesn't seem to fit this role list,

scum ascetic directly cancels out Tracker, watcher, MD, role cop, ur thing(slightly forgot what it was), and fruit basket. wdym????

Where did Watcher come from?

did you just slip

.
But yeah I don't think Ascetic exists in this setup solely because scum doesn't need it, the investigative power isn't that strong even combined between three investigatives.

[JacksonVirgo]

all scum needs is a successful elimination within a 1v1 which you were actively pushing.

so instead of pushing who I think is scum, I'm supposed to sit around and twiddle my thumbs?

Where did I say that, I've been pushing you to make the case on Mark.

you say all scum needs is an elim
you make it sound like town wouldn't be pushing anyone here. like bruh wtf.

I have been pushing you to make a case on Mark and that I don't want to elim DGB today and to elim the other scum and solve them tomorrow knowing my results, I haven't been saying don't push anyone. I want to solve everyone not just the tunnel between you both. I am thinking of the bigger picture

[JacksonVirgo]

MAKE YOUR CASE ON MARK. I don't really care about anything else you are constantly posting so much shit when you can stop wasting time and just make the goddamn case.

If you expect me to eliminate the one person that has a clear + mechanical reasons to be Town you're insane.

[JacksonVirgo]

DGB I don't need these comments from you, I get it they're scum to you. You are scum to them. This is public knowledge I am trying to solve and this is actually frustrating the hell out of me

[JacksonVirgo]

Where did Watcher come from? did you just slip.

I dont know and no that was not a fucking scumslip.
my point is that ascetic cancels out everything except vig. It makes sense that the ascetic goon claims RBer. It cancels out all investigations and can only be caught be a watcher or killed by vig.

I never said scum-slip. I just said slip. I was lowkey hoping you were gonna claim Watcher here lmfaoo

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m giving this game a break for a while. Sorry for getting heated

[JacksonVirgo]

Look at it from my perspective though, everyone attacking who I have cleared and have thought of like a mason buddy since like D3. I always hate endgame

[JacksonVirgo]

I've cleared my head I think

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm going to say this as blunt as I can, if you take it as an insult then I apologize but I'm not going to beat around the bush as this is my thoughts. If anyone expects me to eliminate my clear simply because you have a conspiracy theory that they're an Ascetic just because an Ascetic would fit thematically you are literally insane. Actually, I just remembered that the Motion Detector got a positive result on them, meaning they simply aren't.

[JacksonVirgo]

Howdy Mark I was starting to get lonely, just a forewarning the thread turned to shit near the end

[JacksonVirgo]

I skimmed as I have to work. Mark I held back the claim because I didn’t want scum to make a claim based on my result as obviously if they didn’t the pool is of three instead of four.

[JacksonVirgo]

I skimmed as I have to work. Mark I held back the claim because I didn’t want scum to make a claim based on my result as obviously if they didn’t the pool is of three instead of four.

I don't quite follow sorry? I'm probably being dense here, but why would you outing an inno on DGB affect what scum were claiming, esp as most slots had claimed by that point anyways?

As in if a protective doesn’t claim they’re clear, otherwise I could have been blocked and it’s less of a clear.

[JacksonVirgo]

If DGB flips something funky, I would consider Jacko could be scum.

Surely it's the opposite - if DGB is goon or 'standard' scum RB then JV must be lying about visiting them and surviving given his weak modifier?

Standard roleblocker albeit unlikely still can explain it tbf

[JacksonVirgo]

If DGB flips something funky, I would consider Jacko could be scum.

Surely it's the opposite - if DGB is goon or 'standard' scum RB then JV must be lying about visiting them and surviving given his weak modifier?

By funky I meant no ascetic or some weird modifier. Like idk disloyal does the same thing too right?

Disloyal is more or a my-end thing

[JacksonVirgo]

3.) Given how simple your explanation is for having me in your solve, why have you waited so long to put it out there given how frequently you were asked for it?

Uh because I was planning on casing you but got lazy.

You just got lazy?

[JacksonVirgo]

I skimmed as I have to work. Mark I held back the claim because I didn’t want scum to make a claim based on my result as obviously if they didn’t the pool is of three instead of four.

I don't quite follow sorry? I'm probably being dense here, but why would you outing an inno on DGB affect what scum were claiming, esp as most slots had claimed by that point anyways?

As in if a protective doesn’t claim they’re clear, otherwise I could have been blocked and it’s less of a clear.

Coming back to this because I think I may have struck something here. Consider this from Mom late D2

Noraa- camper
Marky Mark- camper
DrippingGoofball-???
Flea the Magician-???
AGamblingPig-???
Mathblade- ranger (mason)
Guillotina- camper
JacksonVirgo- N1 vig
Infinity 324- VT
Momrangal- mason
Vaxkiller-PGO

Two dead VT flips

Shortly after this Math claims mason, and we learn that flea is a Fruit Vendor. Ie, every slot had claimed by the end of D2, and the only ones being cagey about the extent of their powers were the masons.

JV - Who could possibly be fakeclaiming you if you had outed your N2 inno on DGB during D3, given that everyone had already claimed?

Also - did you get a result from the mod to confirm you had visited DGB, which would confirm you hadn't been RBed?

Not every one claimed, specifically the one roles that would incriminate DGB were asked to not claim. Also I’m a Visitor not a checker so no I just know if I die or not.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not every one claimed, specifically the one roles that would incriminate DGB were asked to not claim. Also I’m a Visitor not a checker so no I just know if I die or not.

OK, so which specific slots hadn't claimed fypov? As far as I can see from Mom's post, all of the alive slots other than Math and Flea had claimed, and Flea and Math claimed shortly after, so I'm not quite following.

Are you saying that you were concerned that one of the slots that had claimed VT would then fakeclaim protective and undermine your inno on DGB?

I was waiting for everyone to full claim for that reason yes, I didn’t want to give scum a reason to fake claim it more than they already would and me claiming would help force the clear away.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also any VT could theoretically be scum that can pretty easily just claim a protective

[JacksonVirgo]

Honestly looking back I should have claimed immediately when Momrangal died as obviously no protectives exist but eh

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you agree that a town roleblocker makes sense in this setup? Did you end up seeing my posts regarding Noraa and their contradictions?

I didn’t yet no I skipped the big walls until after work


Gotta go starting now

[JacksonVirgo]

kes more sense in terms of explaining the no-kill N2,

I’ve already said why this isn’t the case. Noraa/Mark team?

Mark is awfully fencesitty even for someone that’s constantly saying how they think it’s me and DGB all the time

[JacksonVirgo]

Got home from work, chilled out, got screamed at, goats got out, had to chase them down haha.

Bad afternoon but I'll be able to post soon, please understand.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm going to say this as blunt as I can, if you take it as an insult then I apologize but I'm not going to beat around the bush as this is my thoughts. If anyone expects me to eliminate my clear simply because you have a conspiracy theory that they're an Ascetic just because an Ascetic would fit thematically you are literally insane. Actually, I just remembered that the Motion Detector got a positive result on them, meaning they simply aren't.

Ok so I see why ur not willing to lim DGB but I'm going to try my best to work around that.

Objectively, for me anyway, it's better to eliminate outside of DGB so that's within you, mark and infinity. I am NOT confbiasing when I scum-read you, do you honestly not see that you force a 1v1 with my clear, and expect me not to scum-read you. I do not really care if you know you are Town, if it worked like that we would win from D1 every single game.

I hope you agree that out of DGB and me there has to be a scum. Don't be quick to assume it is me this time. Listen to me and try to understand where I am coming from.

I never said I disagreed that you/DGB contained one scum, I feel I've been fairly open about that even considering I called you out on contradicting this logic (which you started mind I add)

For the sake of thinking from ur perspective, lets assume the scum team is Noraa/Mark. DGB is a town RBer, Jack is town JOAT, and Infinity is a vt.

Ok so the moment this day started, I charged in with a DGB vote. Isn't this nearly suicide to 1v1 ur top TR? Like no shit I know DGB is your top TR. You made it clear as hell yesterday. Sure I didn't know it was because u investigated them but still, I don't start out attacking a town RBer. Scum 1000000000% attack infinity here. Think about it. How much easier would it be to get 1 singular vote on a vt than on a town RBer that the town JOAT thinks is locktown?

This is assuming you're scum. You don't necessarily need to convince me to win, you can win via convincing the other Town within Mark/Infinity to vote wrongly (aka on DGB) and you speed-hammer. You are also side-swiping Mark here and refusing to case them so you could also be swinging to them without making it seem like unnatural progression

Now lets flip to my perspective for a sec.

I came into this day with zero plan or anything. I was just like "Mom says DGB. DGB it is" Like there was nothing else to it at all.

I hope you understand this doesn't hold any weight, and it also shows that you're not really possessing a solving mindset, you're sheeping a dead Mason. If it was a random Town in a group of Townie people (such as myself/momrangal). Sheeping them

could

hold weight as they were killed instead of myself etc but they're a Mason so they were dead regardless and their death means nothing about their reads.

I started realizing you were town through your frustration. You felt genuinely upset and I believe you think DGB is town and me scum and if you believe that, you are town. I started seeing it pretty fast.
I came into this day not sure if anyone but DGB was scum. Yesterday, I had noticed a tone shift from DGB in that they were a lot more kind and meek which was the main reason I wanted DGB on the chopping block today.

Once I realized you were town, I also realized that the scum team cannot possibly be marky/infinity. I parked my vote on DGB and before I removed it, everyone had checked into the thread. If the team were infinity/marky, game would be over.

From my perspective, you, jacko, are obvtown. I am town. Marky/Infinity cannot logically be the scum team. DGB must be in the scum team even by poe.

Why is Mark/Infinity an impossible scum-team? If you actually have a solid reason to think they're both not together I can sort of see where you're at as you're trying to explain a mechanical lock-scum but honestly it just seems your trying to show that your reads have a progression rather than "Yeah they're lock-scum now because there's no room otherwise". Why Mark over Infinity though, you say you got lazy and can't case Mark and then you also say that you only had them as PoE scum so that again contradicts yourself, care to explain these? As it is right now if you can't explain your contradictions then you're always going to a step below my mech-cleared and also my ability-cleared DGB.

Why do you think I'm scum? I thought about this question a bit last night. I may be totally jackshit wrong but I'm going to say why I think you don't believe me. I feel like its out of fear of losing to scum!Noraa as I am known for good scum games and you have modded two of my flawless wins.

I think you're scum because you're not showing a naturally progressive posts, you are contradicting yourself to high heaven and you're also dead set right in the middle of a 1v1 with my clear. If you

are

Town in this position and assume I am the final vote between the pair of you, you'll be fighting an uphill battle so I am sorry if you're Town but just see my position and don't blast me if I make the wrong call, bad position I'm in.

But the thing is I want you to think about a few questions. Think about them and answer them yourself and then talk to me about it.
1) Is my every post in this game loaded fully with AtE and with the intent of manipulating every person in the game? (do not look at my posts. think from memory. can you think of a single time where I AtE'd here)

I do not remember if EVERY post in this game was, nobody's is so this is a hyperbolic question to make a statement yeah? Your posts regarding me being obvtown seems incredibly pocketing and when I am opposing your reads you discredit me by saying I am just wrong, stupid etc and then the next few posts you say how much you love me or whatnot. It's like you're trying to get me on your good side while pushing me into your agenda.

2) Am I efforting in this game? Is any of that effort going towards self preservation?

Efforting? You're pushing an agenda regardless of alignment so I would count that as efforting yes, and you are indeed self-pressing as you contradicted yourself to save your sweet ass when the 1v1 logic turned against you.

3) What are the benefits towards me 1v1'ing your top TR? (Trust me I know how tunneled you get. You wouldn't let go of me in 2177.)

I don't know what scum is planning but I've said two scenarios I think is probably the two situations occam's razor whispered into my ears. Either you're trying to get one Town within myself and the other within Infinity/Mark to vote wrong and then speed-hammer or you're willingly sacking yourself to give your buddy the advantage going into tomorrow. The first would lead to Infinity!Scum and the latter Mark!Scum.

4) Seriously, have I even been ATTEMPTING to look townie in general this game? (think about my refusal to read the game. calling masons stupid. calling everyone scummy.)

Yes you have been, you have also been blatantly saying how obvtown you are so you are definitely aware that you are trying or "are acting" townie.

5) Is my scum game this bad? (take a while for this one. I think you know the answer but refuse to accept it)

Obviously you're not bad, even if you're scum this game, you got this far after all. I know that you are better at scum than as Town, but that doesn't excuse all the logic where you're scum over DGB from my perspective. If you want to elim scum today, and you are indeed Town try and solve within Infinity/Mark and convince me that I should vote them over you.

[JacksonVirgo]

And yeah, I'm fence-sitting real hard rn because the DGB/JV solve makes more sense to me, but I would die inside a little bit if I let someone have a free pass for quickhammering D4 if they then turned out to be scum. I just think Noraa is competent enough as a player not to quick hammer by mistake.

I am just going to say this quick. Do you honestly expect all three scum to make a combined gambit N1 and me immediately thrust into claiming it when the chances it goes wrong is GOD LEVEL's higher than chances it succeeds, that and I am generally hateful against Gambits as they fail 9 times out of 10.\

Also what's the difference between DGB/JV and a Noraa/[X] scum-team regarding the N2 kill. What makes it more likely it's the former with the missing kill?

[JacksonVirgo]

where there are 3 masons w/ a mason+, no other TPRs and multiple scum PRs. If that's balanced, then are you trying to tell me that 6 TPRs here is balanced?? As that is what we would have if DGB/JV are town.

I don't think you realise how powerful 3p masons are

[JacksonVirgo]

kes more sense in terms of explaining the no-kill N2,

I’ve already said why this isn’t the case. Noraa/Mark team?

Mark is awfully fencesitty even for someone that’s constantly saying how they think it’s me and DGB all the time

I must be missing where you explain how a no-kill N2 makes more sense - unless you are talking about 3502 where you suggest a cross-kill is possible, but as scum knew that flea was going to target a PGO and die that seems an unlikely NK target for them. If I'm missing another post where you explain this better, please could you link me as I couldn't see it in your ISO when scannning through.

I hadn't given it much thought until infin mentioned it, but just seems so risky for scum!noraa to no-kill n2 as if DGB targets noraa or any other member of the scumteam for that matter then it will seem like a guilty due to the lack of kill other than flea (which is explained by the PGO). Conversely, scum!DGB can use a no-kill n2 to paint a guilty on guillo (as we have seen). Do you have an alternate explanation for this?

1 kill with a claimed PGO is miles more easier to push than a PGO claim with a "confirmed" PGO kill.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why? Maybe they didn't want Vax to be confirmed PGO; maybe they didn't trust Flea to target Vax? I don't know. But with hindsight and Guillotina having flipped town, we can be pretty confident that scum NK'd Flea.

Is this a slip? We know Flea visited Vax as Vax was able to confirm the contents of the picnic basket (after a bit of mod faff), so we know for a fact that Vax's PGO role killed flea. Yes, scum may have cross-targetted flea but this would be functionally the same as a no-kill.

This is confbias dude, that's not a slip

[JacksonVirgo]

And yeah, I'm fence-sitting real hard rn because the DGB/JV solve makes more sense to me, but I would die inside a little bit if I let someone have a free pass for quickhammering D4 if they then turned out to be scum. I just think Noraa is competent enough as a player not to quick hammer by mistake.

My theory is that they wanted to destroy Town's lead, voting who everyone was saying was paired with her so that she can run into LYLO guns blazing. Actually who voted first out of DGB/Noraa? What Town runs into LYLO with a vote.

[JacksonVirgo]

These cases suck ass but I'm really angry because I fucking know jacko is gonna buy it for shit reasons.

See this what I am talking about. This ATE to try and push me towards your agenda

[JacksonVirgo]

Please come back at me if you think I am misunderstanding this - I am keen to fathom this out as N2 underpinned the narrative for most of the midgame

As this is more of a WIFOM argument I won't be holding this N2 NK with much weight personally as mech-info > reads > WIFOM statements imo.

Scum could have no-killed/cross-killed to set up three Town eliminations at once. Vax followed by the blocked (Gills), followed by DGB themself which is actually playing out right now to be completely honest.

Why would scum!DGB try and fake a guilty on someone knowing it forces a 1v1 and will likely be yeeted right after?

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa it’s confirmed DGB IS NOT ASCETIC

Stop pushing lies

[JacksonVirgo]

This is what's happened this game:

Night 1:
Jacko killed toog
scum killed toog

Night 2:
Vax "killed" flea
scum no killed

Night 3
scum killed math

Night 4
scum killed mom

Why the hell would scum kill Toog

[JacksonVirgo]

Well, that escalated quickly! (This is me not hammering btw to rule out some tinfoil me/infin or me/noraa scumteam)

So it’s pretty confirmed who the scum team is now fwiw

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah Ive got intent to vote Noraa but I’m. Getting ready to work

[JacksonVirgo]

You’re still just blatantly AtE’ing

VOTE: Noraa

[JacksonVirgo]

Obviously not because town wouldn’t hammer themselves here

[JacksonVirgo]

Dw we still win after yeeting you Infinity owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Ayyyy

[JacksonVirgo]

DGB was a roleblocker else were goons

This was a fun game

[JacksonVirgo]

I think Noraa is gonna be mad :c

[JacksonVirgo]

This setup was absurdly scumsided lol

Not really?

[JacksonVirgo]

Mass claim was not very smart fwiw

[JacksonVirgo]

I also massively overestimated Noraa's ability to count to 4

I wasn't counting.

Haha, it's all good. It was fun playing with you

I hope you can see from my pov how it looked like openwolfing covered over by cutseyness

I dont see it.

All my points against you were genuine if that paints a picture

[JacksonVirgo]

I was really obvtown.

You can’t really claim this for yourself its not really how it works

[JacksonVirgo]

I probably should have realized Jacko's shit read on me came from scum but he has terrible reads on me even as town so it was hard.

Abusing my town-meta is fun, but in all seriousness you're annoying to read hahaha

[JacksonVirgo]

JV played really well, the gambit was inspired. Scum played really well.

Thank you

[JacksonVirgo]

JV played really well, the gambit was inspired. Scum played really well.

I totally agree. I reckon they picked up a few things from DK and Flavour in that Bending mini

It was actually DGB's on the spot idea that we just went "yes". I feel bad that piggy didn't get to play much :c

[JacksonVirgo]

the point of the PGO at least from my pov was to serve as a quasi IC. Like, scum are just going to leave that alone and unless you guys lynched it (wich u did) its gonna be there for the whole game. or maybe that makes sense to no one else but me.

What is the possible counter-play to a PGO and a single scum? Because if it's plain unkillable, who wins in the 1v1 with them?

[JacksonVirgo]

thank you all for stealing my virginity

No problem it was a very enjoyable experience

[JacksonVirgo]

Jacko .... zero remorse :/ You are a cruel scum.

Sowwy, plz forgives the Jacko :c

[JacksonVirgo]

Rolecop/track JV

I can has typing skills lol

YIKES

Looking back and realising how close it was to disaster was a rare feeling haha

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah tbf I think massclaim is correct pretty often there, scum gambiting fucked it up though.

Yeah, a mafia that works together, wins together owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Town played really well tbf, Noraa is half-right but their contradictons and ate was what I latched onto hard. It double helped that they were TRing me which they'll never do now (until the one time I flip scum of course ahaha)

[JacksonVirgo]

I also apologize for getting heated, It wasn't serious (as I'm playing as Mafia) but you were so I am sorry

[JacksonVirgo]

Lol you made this sound so wrong.

That was my plan ahaha

[JacksonVirgo]

Reading the scum PT now and holy shit

The only crumb the scum team didn’t get was the snowflake which was in mom’s avatar.
And maybe the gun one.

Y’all were on top form. Well done.

I really shoulda stuck to my gut and RC’d JV. Lots of mistakes but usually scum don’t gambit this well.

The only minor thing I have is JV changing his claim shoulda been a scum claim.

Which crumbs was the avatar/gun ones?

Thank you, and yeah seeing that you almost RC'd me gave me a mini-heart attack lmao. And if I was the role I claimed, I would have likely done the same thing so it's not as much of a scum claim if you know how I play as Town usually.

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson esp is top tier scum.

:O

Thank you

[JacksonVirgo]

I may have something to do with the missing NK, but it could be someone else too.

I need some time to digest this but I think a snowflake may help you here. This may seem like troll posting. I am waiting to see if snow flurries spread. I think it was storming for DGB. Think before you respond DGB. This is a weird troll not troll. Focus on the small picture in the big.

I wasn’t sure if DGB was protective/RB.

Snowflakes is in mom’s avatar small picture. I was asking DGB if it protected mom (believing your claim).

I knew there WAS a crumb with you saying snowflake as you kept saying it although I had no idea what it meant.

[JacksonVirgo]

Imagine if some fake mass claimed and they had a lie detector ability instead. That would be great to have now.

I can dream...

I mean go for it.

We have a PT one of us has a gun due to our plus nature. We check green.

When I reached out to you thinking you were cop I literally told you I had a PT.

Not sure what you think is “fake”.

I claimed a gun then claimed motion detector later hoping you’d kill mom first.

Ah I see. We both thought that you both switched your claims, at first I thought DGB said to kill you for it but they didn't but we went and killed you anyway and it paid off. I felt like a genius ahaha. Mom was so depressed over it

[JacksonVirgo]

As someone special has said earlier

You should always be searching for crumbs, softs and slips regardless of alignment.

[JacksonVirgo]

I do! I just missed it lol

That was referring to Math's post