Open 898: Don't Fall In The Volcano! | Game Over!

[Claptastik]

I just wanna say that Aureal is a freaking QUEEN for making this game

I mean my role is a freaking gladiator!

This pinged the fuck out of me. I typed up a reply with a vote but then thought I better check the vote count. Since he's E-2 already I'm holding off for now.

[Claptastik]

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

Which two?

[Claptastik]

Fair. I think my play has been pretty neutral so far on the surface

I've recently gotten into poker and am trying to incorporate a little bit of what I've learned so far into my play

I found that a LAG on my right was the most profitable situation once I learned how to play it.

[Claptastik]

I unvoted black simply because it seems foolish to eliminate someone D1

Note that on this site D1 refers to the whole phase which lasts 10 (or whatever) calendar days.

[Claptastik]

I'm typically a very paranoid person so no, No one appears to be likely town to me

Ugh I hate that word.

[Claptastik]

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

13 feels more like a fake townslip than a real one.

[Claptastik]

Don't mind me, i'm just looking over at the glossary to understand all these terms, but yea I do think it seemed intentional as well

Neko you need an avatar, makes it easier for everyone else.

[Claptastik]

In the time it took him to write an unnecessarily long-winded 48 he could have at least summarized his read

Yeah that was my thought.

[Claptastik]

Was this just the town way to read that post then

Not sure what you're asking.

[Claptastik]

Fair. I think my play has been pretty neutral so far on the surface

I've recently gotten into poker and am trying to incorporate a little bit of what I've learned so far into my play

I found that a LAG on my right was the most profitable situation once I learned how to play it.

LAG is missing from the glossary so if you wouldn't mind explaining it, it'd be very much appreciated

LAG = Loose Aggressive. They run over tables and drive many people crazy, but I read an article on how to play them by Mike Caro, and it all became clear. As long as they're one or two positions on your right.

[Claptastik]

That's fair. I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like the natural progression of having a strong feeling that Dragon is scum combined with not thinking we are partnered would be to think I'm probably town

Fishing for town reads?

[Claptastik]

I think Neko's pretty solidly town with his latest posts

What in particular about his latest posts looks town to you?

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Black

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

Because I only have one vote.

[Claptastik]

Follow up on Black:
26 - questions someone else putting out an early town read
39 - doubts that people have enough info to have a serious read on her this early
42 - puts out a bare town read on neko - "Neko town" is the entire post
46 - again doubts that there's enough information to have serious reads yet
53 - puts out gut town reads on sky and dragon, now claims that the town read on neko "wasn't real."
92 - excessively focused with the people who have voted her, votes dragon
94 - backs off the dragon scum read. More concerned with how she appears to others than with generating information to get real reads.
122 and 124 and 128 - hey newbie you should town read me
133 - wishy-washy town read on neko
162 - detailed defense. Town getting heat early on D1 tend to just continue on and trust that their town game will become apparent in time. Black is focused on herself this game.
163 - naked vote on me. Hey let's see if I can deflect the conversation to someone else.
186 - just gross
190 - rolleyes response to klick, who made the same observation that I did above, i.e. town!Black would be towning it up
194 - vote Klick. I mean WTF, why did you vote me? Apparently not in an attempt to sort me

This is a really bad ISO.

[Claptastik]

Do you honestly expect reads to be strong this early in the game?

No. In fact, I think reads are so weak this early in the game, that there's no town reason to be tossing them out. Scum OTOH want to look like they're trying to solve, and buddying doesn't hurt.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

Because I only have one vote.

Follow up: as noted above, Klick had a similar thought to mine regarding Black. Scum!klick would tell scum!black to town it up in the PT. scum!klick has no motivation to tell town!black how to take pressure off herself. Klick is looking good to me from that post.

[Claptastik]

Honestly I have no comment for any of this but i am present

This guy's screaming newbtown all along. If he's scum, kudos!

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

...I quite like this actually

This reminds me of myself as town. I like having wagons on me as that generates the best information. Klick has a wagon, but he's not defensive, he's letting it get reads. Black OTOH has been hard defending all day.

[Claptastik]

The wonders of having a 7 hour difference (it's 7 AM here)

Where is 7 hours difference from EST in Europe? I'm traveling there next summer for the first time.

[Claptastik]

Honestly my feeling is that you and black are both town and its just you two being extra picky over each other; the E-1 on page 2 seemed very random, and I have a feeling would've been hammered without much info if I didn't Unvote. I think sky is also another case of aggressive townie, my gut feeling right now is saying that titus and maybe klick is scum; Dannflor doesn't really rub off as scum but i haven't had the chance to really interact with them to be fair

You were right to unvote, but it's pretty rare to see a quickhammer that early on D1. It's done more for reaction.

[Claptastik]

Is there something I'm missing here? Why was Clap supposed to vote Klick?

My assumption is that I scum read black in part for tossing out weak and rebuttable town read early, and klick also put out town reads.

In 52 Klick did put out a weak town read on you.
132 - town read on neko, BUT it's "pretty solidly town." Contrast with black, who then said "I lean town there but it's not very solidified."
161 - you're now "even more town"

Klick is putting out stronger town reads. Scum!klick would have to later justify putting votes there. Black wants to look like she has town reads, but still be able to vote them later without much explanation.

[Claptastik]

Oh I missed the titus part; and while my read on Klick is partly based off black, I have looked back and Klick just kinda rubs me off the wrong way

Can you look back again and look for motivations in what he does? Feels don't work well in this game unless you have a long history with people (and even then not so great in most cases).

[Claptastik]

Clap are you an alt? You speak like a pretty experienced player

I'm new to this site, but I played a lot on some topical forums that also ran mafia games. Some people there also played here. That was a while ago. I recently got an itch and went back, but those sites are gone or not doing mafia anymore. This place is so much better, e.g. the ability to show an ISO or multiple ISOs.

[Claptastik]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

[Claptastik]

I'm the type of player that doesn't respond well to pressure. I get focused on everyone's shitty scumreads on me and it derails the game and it's not fun for anyone

So...people shouldn't pressure you because you'll make sure the game's no fun for anyone?

[Claptastik]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

I explained that in 245 247 and 255. You're not reading for content, i.e. not really trying to sort people, or you would know this.

[Claptastik]

This reminds me of myself as town. I like having wagons on me as that generates the best information. Klick has a wagon, but he's not defensive, he's letting it get reads. Black OTOH has been hard defending all day.

I do this as town btw. It's not a scumtell of mine. Though I have a feeling you don't really care and you'll find a way to scumread me saying this somehow

NGL what you wrote seems to be admitting that you're playing scummy. When you say you do "this" as town, what's "this"? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

[Claptastik]

As far as deflecting, I find it funny that you and Clap think I'm scummy for focusing on myself and then when I look elsewhere to try and sort it's called deflecting

Voting someone then not following up is deflecting, not sorting.

[Claptastik]

I think the three people on my wagon are sorting me in bad faith. There's a lot of reasons that are either NAI or a huge stretch, like they are jumping through hoops to paint me as scum

There's only two scum. It's doubtful that both of them are on you this early. So, at least two of the three on you are town. What motivation do townies have to push you in bad faith?

[Claptastik]

Basically i think clap’s catchup and jump on Black was way over justified and more focused on looking townie than anything else

What do you think of my interactions with people other than black after the catchup?

[Claptastik]

People can pressure me but I expect them to do it in good faith and to admit when they might be wrong

"In good faith" is a weasel term.

I might be wrong. I thought it went without saying in a game of mafia, particularly on D1, but now it's said. Is that good?

[Claptastik]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

I explained that in 245 247 and 255. You're not reading for content, i.e. not really trying to sort people, or you would know this.

Nah I just overlooked them. Thanks for providing an answer tho

What do you think of the reasoning on klick in those posts? Do you think I'm scum with klick?

[Claptastik]

Nah, that's not good enough. I want you to respond to my rebuttal of your case so I can tell if you're town pushing me for bad reasons or scum pushing me for bad reasons

I thought your rebuttal was weak. I think responding to weak scum arguments plays into the hands of scum. I'm fine letting everyone decide based on what's out there.

[Claptastik]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

I explained that in 245 247 and 255. You're not reading for content, i.e. not really trying to sort people, or you would know this.

Nah I just overlooked them. Thanks for providing an answer tho

What do you think of the reasoning on klick in those posts? Do you think I'm scum with klick?

Probably not. I think it's more likely that there's one scum within you

What do you think of my reasoning on klick?

[Claptastik]

@Black what do you think of my reasoning on klick?

[Claptastik]

I'm watching you two play 5D chess while i'm playing checkers in this game

I don't think so. Black is either floundering scum or bad, over-defensive town. Without dannflor backing her she'd be in trouble.

As for dannflor, he appears to be the most annoying type of player there is - the old guard who thinks he's so damn good he doesn't need to explain himself. And sometimes those people are that good, but there's no way for newer people like you or me to know that.

[Claptastik]

245 is ok.

So you agree with my logic that klick's post was town. Why am I, as scum, making town points for a townie who has a wagon on him? DOesn't it make much more sense to leave open the option to get on that wagon if I need to? That flexibility is much more important than some nebulous town cred scum!me might get if klick does get limmed without my vote.

I disagree with 247 - I think it's much easier to stay calm and collected when being wagoned as scum as opposed to town.

Seriously? Wow, most people would find being pressured D1 as part of a 2-person team to be more stressful than being pressured as 1 out of 7.

255 is bad too because weren't you arguing that it doesn't make sense to have strong reads this early? And now suddenly you townread Klick for having strong reads? It's easier for scum to have strong reads, or to at least pretend that they do, because they know everyone's alignments. Town are more likely to be wishy washy and fluid with their reads early in the game

As noted, the issue is that scum need to generate mislims, and putting out strong town reads limits their options down the road. you understand that, right?

[Claptastik]

yea tbh I don't like dann simply because he won't explain his train of thought

Problem is that someone with that join date and post count could very well be town, and could very well have good reads. And they're difficult to lim. It's a type that's good for investigatives to check.

[Claptastik]

I don't think so. Black is either floundering scum or bad, over-defensive town. Without dannflor backing her she'd be in trouble.

Nah, your case is shit homie. You're not fading me with that hot garbage

You're the one playing bad if you are town, not me

As for dannflor, he appears to be the most annoying type of player there is -

the old guard who thinks he's so damn good he doesn't need to explain himself

. And sometimes those people are that good, but there's no way for newer people like you or me to know that.

If you think you are good at this game you need to check yourself. Your ego is inflated for no reason

I don't know how you conclude I'm saying I'm good at this game. I know I'm not.

[Claptastik]

Have you ever heard of pocketing?

Yes. I rarely see scum trying to pocket someone with a wagon on them though.

There's not much harm in scum putting out strong reads early in the game. I see them do it all the time and then change their opinion as things develop. You understand that is an option, right?

It's only an option if people like you let them get away with it.

[Claptastik]

@dannfor

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy.

Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

This post implies I'm going to come back with a detailed case on black when I'm at my computer. Why was it scummy of me to do so?

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

Because I only have one vote.

I'm assuming this regards klick putting out town reads at the same time as black. I've shown that black's were indeed weak and rebuttable, while klick's were signficantly stronger. I've also explained how I relate those facts to alignment. What do you think of all that?

[Claptastik]

The premise that "scum have weak reads and town have strong ones" is laughable

How about the premise 'scum need to keep mislim options open? Is that laughable?

And rn which of us is trying to sort the other in good faith?

[Claptastik]

Maybe your scum game is really bad and you don't know how to believably incorporate previous townreads into the PoE, but not all of us have that issue, and I guarantee you Klick doesn't

Yeah, scum make rebuttable town reads, just like you've been doing. I'm glad we're on the same page.

[Claptastik]

I think this argument is +town for both of you

I disagree, but if it is tvt, scum are just coasting, so it has to end for a while.

[Claptastik]

I think this argument is +town for both of you

I disagree, but if it is tvt, scum are just coasting, so it has to end for a while.

Yeah run along now

You really are making this game miserable. Hope you're proud of yourself.

[Claptastik]

I don't think putting someone to E-1 on page 2 and keeping her there is a good idea, because how easy it would be for a scum (or town) to "accidentally" place hammer and evading responsibility on Day 2. Now, if an actual quickhammer had occurred and the flip was scum, I would give massive towncred to the hammerer, but that is besides the point. I'm also not sure if Black was scum or not, because I can see myself reacting like that if I were to run up to E-1 right away, and I can see a scum player faking it as well.

I think the main engine behind the wagon was Sky and Dragon, and I see a strange but plausible town motivation and explanation from Sky's posts, hence my Dragon vote.

However, 154 is so cringey that I'm having trouble seeing scum Dragon writing it. If that is within his scum range, then bravo.

VOTE: Klick

Let me see if I understand this.

Black was at E-1 for 6 minutes. Klick posted within that 6 minutes but didn't unvote. So, Klick is scum. Is that the gist of it?

[Claptastik]

FakeGod feels town to me definitely,

Why? 80% of his ISO boils down to a scum read based on an RVS vote and a 6 minute E-1.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: fakegod

[Claptastik]

Once 8-1/2 years ago is pretty underwhelming.

[Claptastik]

I acknowledge that FakeGod had some content in their ISO that looked like solving on the surface

My point was rather that the content itself felt forced, felt like it was driven by what FakeGod wanted to push into the thread rather than what FakeGod thought.

It felt like the purpose of their posting was to look a certain way, as opposed to just solving. And that bothered me.

Their posting still feels this way to me, and it feels like more than just a playstyle issue.

Along those lines, I would think it took him significant time to find that game from 8 years ago.

[Claptastik]

IMO dann is townier than either fakegod or kawaii

[Claptastik]

i don't believe i said 185 specifically was scummy, but i do think you seemed overly anxious to have bulletproof and unique reasons to be scum reading black

like you said enough in 185, and then i find your followup in 243 to be more about the performance than anything else.

like i don't think you read all the posts you highlighted and have these thoughts. i think you wanted to scum read black and then reinforced that with 243 afterwards

that's something town sometimes too but it comes from scum an awful lot of the time that want to make their reads seem more real, and more importantly, bulletproof to argue against

I'm town. You're projecting because it's something in your own scum bag of tricks. For example:
viewtopic.php?p=13971095#p13971095

I'm town. You should look elsewhere.

Currently I have black, neko, de70, and you north of null
skygazer null
fakegod, kawaii - scum pool

I guess I doubt it's this easy, but it sure seems like it is.

[Claptastik]

I also don't really think it makes sense for Claptastik to think I'm townier than fakegod or kawaii

Just from this game? I agree. But, I read your D1 play in some recent games and it has me leaning town on you.

[Claptastik]

Currently I have black, neko, de70, and you north of null

Why did your opinion of me change

First, some players I town read said this isn't your scum game.

Second, I did some meta and agree with your self assessment that you handle pressure better as scum.

Interestingly, I was doing meta on you and dann, and came across a scum game of yours where you replaced out, and dann took the slot. I thought that was pretty funny. But yeah, you were getting pressure, and you weren't freaking out.

[Claptastik]

where do you have klick

North of null. I've given reasons.

[Claptastik]

i don't believe i said 185 specifically was scummy, but i do think you seemed overly anxious to have bulletproof and unique reasons to be scum reading black

like you said enough in 185, and then i find your followup in 243 to be more about the performance than anything else.

like i don't think you read all the posts you highlighted and have these thoughts. i think you wanted to scum read black and then reinforced that with 243 afterwards

that's something town sometimes too but it comes from scum an awful lot of the time that want to make their reads seem more real, and more importantly, bulletproof to argue against

I'm town. You're projecting because it's something in your own scum bag of tricks. For example:
viewtopic.php?p=13971095#p13971095

I'm town. You should look elsewhere.

Currently I have black, neko, de70, and you north of null
skygazer null
fakegod, kawaii - scum pool

I guess I doubt it's this easy, but it sure seems like it is.

is there a reason you linked a scum game of mine besides to show off that you’ve been metaing people

LOL, yes, and I already gave the point. You were scum and early on gave a forced list case on someone. When I saw that the light bulb went on - he's scum reading me for a list case because he does it as scum.

Where I came from, cases like that were pretty standard town fare. They were tougher though because we didn't have the handy post number link tool.

[Claptastik]

there's also an element of I think Klick is a great town player and he could be having an off game or i could be having an off game but if I give him time I'll be able to find him as town

What's so off about his game?

[Claptastik]

Now, if an actual quickhammer had occurred and the flip was scum, I would give massive towncred to the hammerer,

Why? Is bussing not a thing on this site?

[Claptastik]

yea tbh I don't like dann simply because he won't explain his train of thought

Problem is that someone with that join date and post count could very well be town, and could very well have good reads. And they're difficult to lim. It's a type that's good for investigatives to check.

i just want to quote this again to say i have a deep primal distaste for this post

You can taste it however you like, but it's accurate regardless.

[Claptastik]

Along those lines, I would think it took him significant time to find that game from 8 years ago.

I reread that specific game about a month ago and it was fresh on my memory.

There are probably other games like so, but I will have to look through to find them.

In very brief: I was vaguely aware that Black was at E-1. I didn't care that much about it. In the very early stages of the game I find that sort of stuff somewhat amusing. If people want to do crazy stuff early on, that's their prerogative. Ultimately there's stuff to read into that sort of play. The E-1 contributed to us progressing the thread in a healthy way.

tl;dr risk-averse play during RVS is for losers.

I've come back from work and this post caught my eye. I am saddened.

It seems yet again that I'm faced with the stark reality that there are some players who will draw town and do anti-town things.

I did not expect Klick to just straight up admit that what he did was antitown and he doesn't care.

I have no coherent response.

Maybe page 2 E-1 wagon was just bunch of townies doing stunts, and I am simply... risk-averse.

Why does this surprise you?

In the game you linked, which you recently reread, the early hammer wasn't by scum looking for an excusable mislim.

It wasn't accidental, by town who didn't realize it was at E-1.

The hammer came from town who knowingly did an anti-town thing. He said "Quick day? Sure, why not." and then hammered.

Your posts above ring false.

[Claptastik]

can someone sum up the wagon on fakegod? I don't understand why he's at E-2 even after reading back

He's done no scumhunting. He acted like he was scumhunting by making a big deal about the page 2 E-1, which really wasn't a big deal.

[Claptastik]

what does everyone think of 577

This isn't a good answer but honestly when I try to read a kawaii post I get a headache, my eyes glaze over, and I end up skimming. Our brains just don't work the same.

[Claptastik]

I'm gonna be honest, this game has mentally overloaded me and even after rereading the posts I have no clue outside of my earlier sus of klick/dann which is even a very weak thought

It takes a while to learn the game.

[Claptastik]

@dannflor (in particular, but anyone can answer)

After I posted my case on Black, she was at E-1 in 2 hours. The people who jumped on are, in order, DE70, klick, and neko.

If I'm town, which (if any) of these are opportunistic scum?

If I'm scum, is one of these my buddy?

[Claptastik]

He's done no scumhunting. He acted like he was scumhunting by making a big deal about the page 2 E-1, which really wasn't a big deal.

You are wrong, sir.

No, I'm not. Most of your game has been pushing someone for their RVS vote with an argument about an NAI event.

Just because you don't believe it was a big deal, doesn't mean you get to tell people I've done no scumhunting.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I did. They don't have to agree, but yeah, I told them.

My case may have collapsed, but not because I was wrong in identifying the action as anti-town move, but because it turns out Klick does anti-town things regardless of his alignment.

As I see it you began with it as a scummy move, then after some pushback tried to reframe it as anti-town. But that's just me.

(Apologies for the mild snark, just having fun.)

[Claptastik]

Back in my day, antitown is same as scummy.

Per the wiki, back in your day scummy and anti-town were distinct things.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Scummy

I've read most of the wiki but unfortunately it's largely outdated.

[Claptastik]

Why not?

[Claptastik]

Per the wiki, back in your day scummy and anti-town were distinct things.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Scummy

I've read most of the wiki but unfortunately it's largely outdated.

Jesus christ I can't beat you on anything, can I?

I can't wait to wipe that smirk off your face when you see my flip.

Lol what makes you think I can get you limmed? The site BSDs are in charge, and they're unlikely to follow new guy's lead.

[Claptastik]

Not that that comes as a surprise. Black has been playing fast and loose.

Only player Black hasn't voted yet in this game is Kawaii.

What's your read on black?

[Claptastik]

That was referencing 668

Kinda feels like Neko is leaning into this whole newb obvtown thing

That thought has crossed my mind as well.

[Claptastik]

the fakegod/claptastik exchanges on this page feel like s/s distancing tbh

Yeah my vote on him is distancing too. If you really want to see some distancing, run him up to e-1 without me and I'll hammer him.

[Claptastik]

I don't think Neko is solving at all. I think he's just pushing where it is convenient to do so. If you don't believe me just look at his ISO

I agree that he's not doing much solving, but I think that's likely because he doesn't yet know how to solve. One person makes a case. That sounds good to Neko, and he agrees with it. Person cased makes a rebuttal. That sounds good to Neko, and he agrees with it. He's just going on feels, because he doesn't yet know how to look for motivations.

Or look at it this way. Neko's all over the place. I believe scum have daytalk. If he were scum, his partner would probably be coaching him to some extent, and his game wouldn't look so wild. The exception to this is if Titus/Kawaii is scum, since they weren't around at first to coach him.

So, logically I think Neko is town. Yeah, the thought that he's just playing deer in the headlights has crossed my mind. But I don't think that's the case.

[Claptastik]

I think klick is approaching this in a way that doesn’t optically make him look very good

Clap intentionally is

Rereading, and this post cracked me up. This site is like mafia bizarro world or something.

[Claptastik]

the fakegod/claptastik exchanges on this page feel like s/s distancing tbh

Are you saying they don't optically make us look very good?

[Claptastik]

I don't understand why you find this odd

Bad=good
Good=bad

[Claptastik]

It's about the level of effort and intention you're putting into it

Scum care about looking like town slightly more than town do

Yes, I'm intentionally putting effort into scum hunting. And here, that's scummy. IOW this is bizarro world.

BTW, I'm not implying anything scummy about dann with this point. It's just an interesting (to me at least) observation by a relative outsider looking in. I sometimes get the feeling that the people here have been playing together for so long, and therefore wifoming each other for so long, that some conventional wisdom regarding mafia has been turned upside down.

[Claptastik]

Relax and watch what other people are doing. It takes a few games before it starts to make sense. And this game won't make any sense until you see some flips.

[Claptastik]

Word on the street is that Clap is town... at least that's what I heard...

[Claptastik]

Big Swinging Dicks. I guess it's an outdated term now.

[Claptastik]

Just like big shots.

[Claptastik]

cases are for convincing people of a gut scum read, they aren't actually the reasons for a scum read

Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Claptastik]

Claptastik, why are you town?

Do you really think I'd be poking the bears the way I am if I were scum?

[Claptastik]

The only prescription for a fever is more cowbell.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: KawaiiKame

[Claptastik]

So much for intent and a claim...

There's a reason for that. Think about it.

[Claptastik]

We should always strive for the perfect win

Too late. Klick died. Perfect would be jailing the scum or intended victim last night, then limming the scum today.

[Claptastik]

I bet Clap is Tracker

Yes, I'm tracker, and I also targeted you.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: skygazer

[Claptastik]

I sorta figured that you had an ace in the hole to smash the hammer like that

Yep. The hammer without intent made me look a bit scummy, which was good as that decreased my chance of being NK'd. OTOH if Kawaii had flipped town and I got pushed, I knew I could claim. Also a claim isn't that bad in this setup, as I believe a tracker claim means there's a JK or a chance of a doc, so scum can't just kill the tracker risk free. Setup seems to be a little town-sided.

[Claptastik]

I think skygazer is more likely scum than neko. Just as a point of theory though I think neko is the correct lim today. Even if he's town, there's no way you want him in an ELO situation. So, lim neko then jail skygazer. But sky doesn't look good so that works too.

[Claptastik]

Thanks to Kawaii for replacing in

. That was a tough spot. A lot of people had already made fairly solid town reads and the POE pool was pretty small.

[Claptastik]

What was this about?

It means I believed there was reason to believe that kawaii wasn't a town PR, and so intent wasn't needed, but I couldn't explain due to site rules.

[Claptastik]

Can we just do the obvious thing and lim the person who was jailed last night (with no NK) and who wasn't on the Kawaii wagon?

VOTE: skygazer

[Claptastik]

i should've just killed clap

My point here:

So much for intent and a claim...

There's a reason for that. Think about it.

was that most players love rolling a town pr. Since Kawaii was a replacement, if he were town, it was likely just vt. Couldn't say it then though due to the rules on discussing replacements. Also had another reason to think vt at worst which I still can't discuss due to rules.

Also, the hammer looked somewhat scummy, which reduced the chance of my being NK'd and the town losing a pr.