Mafia Reunion | Postgame

[Theta Alpine]

that extra bit of info supports drews role being real
though surprised there is not more role blocking then

?

referring to thomith being unprotectable
or whatever the proper name for it is

[Theta Alpine]

Drew can't target outside FG. There's a preponderance of evidence anyway that his role is real.. wouldn't you know you targeted me and were blocked

that

wait so then

is there even a role that can necessitate thomith not being able to be protected

[Theta Alpine]

also i think i meant it the other way in regards to drews role supporting thomiths claim

i am a touch scrambled in thinking still from earlier

[Theta Alpine]

i do not think it had been claimed that drew could only target inside fg

hmm

maybe scum have a roleblocker then but

[Theta Alpine]

the only other role i could possibly construe as having blocking is

your own claimed role being a universal roleblock of factionals effectively

[Theta Alpine]

hmm

if thomith is true claiming then maybe cult just have a roleblocker then
i am not sure a factional ability could be aimed if the associated pt is closed anyways so i am not sure that would apply

[Theta Alpine]

trying to parse maestros recent posts has my brain dying even more then it already was

i am not sure if maestro legitimately thought they were self hammering or if that was an orchestrated attempt to distract from the leading wagon

however
if thomith is true claiming then scum do not get to recruit tonight anyways so we can
risk flipping a traitor instead of group scum in this case i think

VOTE: maestro

[Theta Alpine]

besides if maestro flips traitor then we know who they were trying to protect here

with perhaps a slight chance of it being aureal but most of the pressure was on dan here so lets be real

[Theta Alpine]

i will be honest this has me considering dan might be scum a lot more then anything else that has happened so far

but i feel like there is a chance maestro is group scum that just

thought they were at e-1 and tried to self hammer for
some reason

actually this is sounding less believable to me now that i type it out hmm

[Theta Alpine]

i mean dan is the leading wagon and if not having the momentum at the time would have probably been the elim once deadline started ticking closer

so i am not sure there is any motivation there to try and give the illusion of protecting dan when dan probably ends up being eliminated anyways without what maestro pulled

[Theta Alpine]

i

do not have the brain power right now to factor in if maestro is not playing for advantage

[Theta Alpine]

well

fine then

VOTE: actiondan

i can sympathize with not getting sleep though

[Theta Alpine]

Cults are wild, amirite? also wik - remember it's role madness so there's a

non-zero

chance I am a Jester

we have already had a modified-jester role flip in deas so


god i really do not want to think about what all this could possibly be any more then i already have

[Theta Alpine]

it might be a traitor trying to delay group from dying


hold on a moment

i just realized something

if scum started with a traitor then there are only two people that share the recruit action
if one of them dies then thomiths ability no longer applies to recruit does it

if the choice is between traitor and group scum elim right now
is it actually better for scum to have a group scum flip

[Theta Alpine]

i am not sure if scum would think of that actually so

[Theta Alpine]

I don’t think it’s better for Group Scum to go down still

if both are already doomed to be eliminated anyways then group scum going down first would actually let them stay even on their own wincon instead of losing a tempo from thomiths ability

except if we did the group scum and then the second group scum without eliminating the traitor at all of course

[Theta Alpine]

assuming thomith is true claiming

if we do the traitor and then group scum then they cannot win on the group scum elimination
if we do the group scum and then the traitor then they can potentially win after the traitor elimination

however this just means we can just do whichever one first and then if group scum we need to find the other group scum instead of going for traitor


depending on how close they are to winning of course that caution might not be needed
we have no clue how many converts were successful right now

[Theta Alpine]

i am actually drinking water now when i apparently was not drinking enough for the past week or so

so uh

yeah


anyways
all that previous posting to say uh
we can probably just elim either maestro or dan at our leisure here
scum get a benefit of sorts if we elim group scum here so
might as well do the effective scum claim first

i am not sure we have enough to get maestro before end of day though but i am not sure what the deadline is like right now compared to when people will be in thread

[Theta Alpine]

oh yeah that is probably enough time

i am not sure why scum wants us to do maestro and honestly i think we can just uh
vote there and find out


or we could do dan as well but
those are the options at this point

i have no idea which is better for town and my thinking juice is not up to figuring it out at the moment

[Theta Alpine]

we only lose outright if dan/maestro/whoever we lim is town
and thomith is scum
and scum know who their traitor is to avoid a misfire there
and if scum have had two successful conversions already

[Theta Alpine]

VOTE: maestro

not sure why i did not do this earlier when i said i preferred maestro

[Theta Alpine]

yes yes you think i am scum with dan i get it

[Theta Alpine]

ah yeah

guess we get to talk over the night as well so
uh
not sure what to say until we see the flip and see if group scum or traitor

[Theta Alpine]

i think we can have the fg claim names now since scum has them
if titus had some names of those in their list it would help us figure things out a bit perhaps

[Theta Alpine]

really

how soon did maestro claim having a communicative role

[Theta Alpine]

oh
hmm

yeah depending on when the guilty dropped that would have been a bit tough to explain

[Theta Alpine]

i imagine scum would be very careful claiming their actions if they have an unstoppable as that implies a good bit of rolestopping power to them
hmm

[Theta Alpine]

hmmm

well anyways i am just gonna see what this yields

VOTE: sircakez

[Theta Alpine]

i have a coffee and it is drunk

so i could in fact watch two people tonight

[Theta Alpine]

yeah that is why i have my vote on cakez instead

[Theta Alpine]

that would honestly be a big brained play though
sacrificing two traitors before a groupscum might buy enough momentum if they can successfully recruit each of those nights
though that assumes that one group scum going down would immediately implicate the other one

[Theta Alpine]

i think i should probably have my shots gated within a small list but i should choose the people in that list myself

as long as both groupscum are in that list then they have to then figure out which of them i would pick to watch or not recruit in case i just watch both of them at once

since i now realize that hunting groupscum directly would probably be the best way to use my action

[Theta Alpine]

well

i think cakez and dan should probably be in the list of people i could target tonight if we do not vote in them
i am not sure who else might be group scum though is the issue

i kinda doubt it is titus myself at this point
aureal uh
it might be aureal hmm
i can toss her onto the list of potential visits for me tonight

[Theta Alpine]

i mean traitors dying does not impede cults victory that much as long as it does not bring group scum down with the traitor

[Theta Alpine]

wait a moment
dan was in hammer range
maestro was on
dan asked maestro to hammer him
and then maestro refused

[Theta Alpine]

i mean

keep in mind maestro was traitor
theatre becomes something else when you do not have full night/day talk with a partner

[Theta Alpine]

For the record, I unvoted pretty quickly when Dan put himself to E-1

Maestro might not have had enough time to hammer

drew could you check what the timing of maestros post and rodens unvote was

[Theta Alpine]

ah

the not being able to do that could perhaps just be the literal
you are not in hammer range anymore sort of i cannot do that

[Theta Alpine]

hmm

we might have to flip dan just to figure out what was going on with maestro
knowing what happened with maestro should let us figure out the rest of the game

[Theta Alpine]

i thought you would be a good target for conversion in the event scum did have a real name cop or such

[Theta Alpine]

i thought you would be a good target for conversion in the event scum did have a real name cop or such

Why?

i thought dan was very towny at the time

[Theta Alpine]

i will be honest the fact the lists are combined made me confuse what the optimal play for that ability would be

[Theta Alpine]

i pop into thread again before work starts to say uh
i have not been paying much attention due to work

sorry about that

i am still of the opinion that maestro implicates dan or cakez
i am not sure which though

i will be here more tomorrow though so

[Theta Alpine]

i do have coffee

i will add you to the list of targets i might have tonight

[Theta Alpine]

i doubt even cult know how close they are to winning so no clue

[Theta Alpine]

huh
well then

roden i wanted to see what your self watch would look like in my results how could you

anyways after the cakez flip i went back and looked for any good traitor indicators and did find a very early comment about flavor leaf being a scum lord among other things so flavor leaf was my second target

so

flavor leafs room had a flavor cop action happen in it and nothing else
rodens room had a recruitment action happen in it and nothing else

also i am in the most recent list titus made as juniper

[Theta Alpine]

9 times out of 10 cakez was the original traitor by the way
investigate as town would only make sense on the original traitor i think

[Theta Alpine]

What's your action?

basically combined watcher/observer but i do not get to differentiate between the results

any action i saw either could have been taken by or preformed on the target

flavor leaf claimed flavor cop so that action was almost certainly them doing a cop
and roden

roden i have no clue but i am now seriously wondering if group scum roden would actually ask me to investigate them that night and then preform the action
then again if a group scum successfully convinces us they are a traitor instead and to leave them alive we just lose

[Theta Alpine]

not watcher
follower and observer
there are like five different watch-like roles sorry

[Theta Alpine]

So by your explanation, a recruitment happened on or by roden? In a cult game? And you're being this nonchalant about it?

for the first two questions yes

for the third question uh
i guess we have not met before

[Theta Alpine]

i guess we have not met before

Indeed, can you use words to fill that gap plz.

that was meant to hint it is a personality trait of mine

but anyways

if roden is group scum then the plan was either to convert me tonight so i do not claim the action
hope i do not actually target roden
or try to pass it off as roden being converted instead of doing the recruitment

[Theta Alpine]

wait rodens name was known

why would scum target roden specifically
roden does not have a useful action and had asked to be watched that night

[Theta Alpine]

ughhh

why does my role have to wifom inducing

i think today needs to be between dan and roden
roden entering the day telling people that dan is 90% confirmed to not be group scum is uh
hmmmmmm

[Theta Alpine]

flavor leaf

aureal claimed she could retarget her follower action if her initial target was eliminated

[Theta Alpine]

i was unnamed the day before but i claimed juniper earlier today due to being in the list titus made and us
probably being close to elo i think at this point

[Theta Alpine]

i mean
me and dan are on the same list so we cannot both be scum unless there is yet another investigate as town role in this game

[Theta Alpine]

That was traitor. 90% og unless the mod has secretly given everyone a name change if recruited plus reverse Miller status. Which, considering this game, I can't entirely rule out.

Okay srsly wat

Am I reading this backwards of your intent, because Cakez was clearly a recruit. Flip even gave us the original name of his role.

Ugh why am I arguing with you, you're just wcum trying to throw confusing smoke

that
was not the original name
that was a full godfather including for role name

[Theta Alpine]

wait unless recruited traitors are given godfather with their original role name
that seems
far too powerful to be in this game though

[Theta Alpine]

oh wait hu tao had an inno on roden right

hmm
that would have to mean hu tao + roden + flavor leaf then i think if roden was group scum
which i kinda doubt as that would mean hu tao or flavor had to have been converted night one i think and

oh wait hu lost their ability day two right
hmmmmm

[Theta Alpine]

So i targeted Aureal last night.

And Aureal flavor basically says she wants the autographs, and she will follow that person.

It says she’ll follow that person…to her doom.

This has me thinking Drew could be a potential “Cult Leader” type where if he goes down, the game is over. Like a Politcal Godfather if anyone’s ever played that style of game before.

This also kind of checks out with Drew possibly Alien’ing Dan the night Maestro got Converted.

Did Drew know who Dan was targeting that night?

Also I'm a bit miffed you used your investigation on me and came up with this wacky theory after getting exactly the sort of result you should have expected from my claim. Remember from the addict flips: "You also know that you will be endgamed if they are both eliminated." Our objective here is clear, we have two groupscum to take down.

i mean honestly it is flavor leaf you should expect tinfoil theories

[Theta Alpine]

if you are converted roden then i have to assume you did not self-watch last night to test me
or maybe forgot to submit the action to self-watch

i did not consider that cult might perhaps be non-multitasking but hmm

[Theta Alpine]

with flavor leaf not seeming to have actions on some of their previous nights then perhaps a roden + flavor leaf group scum with hu tao as night one traitor makes sense in a scum not multitasking world

[Theta Alpine]

oh wait hu tao had an inno on roden right

hmm
that would have to mean hu tao + roden + flavor leaf then i think if roden was group scum
which i kinda doubt as that would mean hu tao or flavor had to have been converted night one i think and

oh wait hu lost their ability day two right
hmmmmm

Like, it would be sad if Theta decided to frame Roden here, just plain forgetting that Hu had cleared him n1. She could've picked someone else but I guess maybe Flavor Leaf was a convenient second target since his role was well proven already. Which, incidentally, makes me even more sus of her because why the hell do you target him here instead of someone who might actually be groupscum?!

as i mentioned earlier i picked flavor leaf because cakez being godfather traitor indicates them being og traitor instead of maestro
and on a browse of cakez iso there is some indications that they were signalling to flavor leaf early on

and also we know that hu tao was hit with an unclaimed action on night 1 due to them losing their power day 2
if that action was a recruit and they then learned that roden was group scum both from cop and recruit then hu tao is not going to claim a guilty on roden now will they

[Theta Alpine]

Addicts will have their flavor changed in conversion.

This means Hu Tao is confirmed to me that she wasn’t converted Night or 2, depending when conversion happens, at the very least.

[Theta Alpine]

i assumed that was the new info myself given the info and the flavor cop result would be the first things to be claimed by fl i think

[Theta Alpine]

happy birthday drew

[Theta Alpine]

actually
if i remember drews claim correctly as being a role blocker as well as partial rolestopper then
if drew is town and dan is group scum then we only need to catch dans partner today or tomorrow and there will not be a conversion after that point
so dan should almost never be the lim here unless i am misremembering drews claim

[Theta Alpine]

Drew's not a roleblocker, though the claim was never spelled out terribly well.

Alright, Dan.

I’m gonna be real with you

You hear that Maestro and Cakez both didn’t submit an action, you see NK15’s role, you see the names all being posted for all of you

How do you Occam’s Razor that all town are in there + go out to defend them that hard

I have always included the possibility of one original traitor in FG even though I absolutely thought it was more likely all of us were town. On that I have been proven wrong. Currently I still believe maestro will flip traitor and that's the last of scum in FG. I believe I said earlier that in an extreme circumstance I would compromise on maestro. And that's not because he didn't action but because his role was out of sync with the rest of us.

I explained Nk15's role (away) by saying traitors probably get to talk with each other. I still think that's the case.

Let me counter by asking you what you make of Drew's role if their were group scum in FG.

He targets FG members only and blocks non FG members only

. That doesn't make sense if group scum exists in FG

I mean, it seems clear. I target a member of the FG, and they cannot not be targeted by an action of someone outside of the FG

huh

for some reason i was under the impression you also blocked them from taking actions

wait so you and dan are both just full protectives with little downsides then

[Theta Alpine]

if roden is group scum it is a roden/flavor leaf pair with hu tao being converted night one

[Theta Alpine]

it is an eventual loss for town if traitors continue to be the lim
you have to hit group scum to win

[Theta Alpine]

that is what i have been stuck on
if roden did the conversion last night i know what most of the team is then
if roden was converted instead then
no clue

[Theta Alpine]

like
what team ever converts roden here

[Theta Alpine]

that is what i have been stuck on
if roden did the conversion last night i know what most of the team is then
if roden was converted instead then
no clue

I'll humor you. What is it in the other scenario?

as i have said before
it would be roden + flavor leaf group scum
with hu tao being the conversion night one

[Theta Alpine]

The mod explicitly said that I would essentially be seen as a self-vistor, and I claimed this info while I was still conftown

and yet i did not see the action

[Theta Alpine]

hmm

is it possible that was the moderator mistake last night then
cause i legitimately did not see a watch action on you or by you last night

[Theta Alpine]

you know what i probably should ask the mod something

[Theta Alpine]

okay no i confirmed i would be able to see self-targeted actions so

i have no clue how i did not see you do the self-watch if you actually did it unless redirection was in play

[Theta Alpine]

that is a good point
i would imagine a redirect on me would have effected both of my ability usages and that obviously did not happen hmm

[Theta Alpine]

oh

updated results on roden

recruitment miscellaneous and miscellaneous actions happened in rodens room

[Theta Alpine]

two are confirmed to investigate as town
unless titus is lying of course

[Theta Alpine]

Even if the mod made an error usually the mod would tell the affected party (Theta) but that not being the case probably means it is unrelated.

it uh
my results on roden did end up being the mod error
they just forgot to tell me the updated result until just a bit ago

[Theta Alpine]

hammer testing does not work in this setup from what it looks like

converted being traitors that are not even potentially known by the full cult completely messes with hammer testing quite a bit

[Theta Alpine]

It could signal a traitor who he was.

as much as i am pondering a flavor leaf scum world

both of the traitors so far were informed of who group scum were it looks like

[Theta Alpine]

well if i am town then you need me or a scumperson to vote dan so that might not happen
probably

i need to think about what it means if roden is converted and not group scum hmm

[Theta Alpine]

from your perspective if i am town then you need me to vote dan or you need scum to bus

[Theta Alpine]

v/la for the next week

Spoiler: explanation that is not critical reading

i just lost my job so uh
i am going to be generous and give myself a week to figure that situation out while i pay a bit less attention to mafia and other things and if i can figure my job situation out by then then i will come out of limited access

i should still be able to play this game though for now and i would rather not abandon it so
my posting might just be a bit limited depending on how busy job searching ends up being
or maybe my posting will get better with not having a job keeping me busy but i do not know how it will go right now

[Theta Alpine]

i should at least try and figure out what roden converted means though so

let me think about that

[Theta Alpine]

i have been under the impression drew and dan were town for most of the game so

let me think about this if it actually is between them

[Theta Alpine]

thomiths role does let me get a non-consecutive night out of the way with the way it played out this game
honestly i thought my role might only be getting one or two usages at the start of the game and now it has turned out to be two + one from coffee so

[Theta Alpine]

i acted on night 2 and night 4

[Theta Alpine]

given the results titus had and considering which of dan and drew it could be with roden being converted
and especially rodens refusal to vote dan
and realizing this is elo and if dan is scum and scum refuse to bus like i think i am seeing then i need to be on the wagon then


if today really is between dan and drew i am actually going to have to go dan
VOTE: actiondan

[Theta Alpine]

i only know three of them but not gonna say who the group are obviously in case there somehow is not a second traitor

[Theta Alpine]

nice

cult games are interesting things

[Theta Alpine]

Imagine if we have another day-long twilight for y'all to theater in

god if this is not the end i am not sure how i am going to even do stuff tomorrow now

but it was probably going to be obvious tomorrow anyways with that vote of mine so
i mean if it was an opportunity to hammer i probably would have just naked hammered but eh need a reason if it is not a hammer

[Theta Alpine]

Can we blame this on FL if he isn't somehow miraculously scum?

probably
he has been quite on you all game

p-edit

thanks
i am
trying to figure out how to resolve the issues with my ability to work well that got me fired in the first place
and i am good for a few months at least so
i have time
though i am already trying to get a resume and such prepared so
i am probably gonna be a bit absent from mafia games for a bit while i get that handled

[Theta Alpine]

if that had not come up i probably would have been able to pull off a much smoother transition to voting dan but ah well

worked out in the end anyways

[Theta Alpine]

hopefully at least
if dan is the other traitor i am just gonna die a little inside

[Theta Alpine]

you know what fair

it is kinda hilarious that traitors ended up effectively jesters this game

[Theta Alpine]

Fuck cults

Well I appreciate you culting me lol

you are welcome
that was my choice actually

flavor wanted roden the night before

so anyways yeah cult was me and flavor leaf

[Theta Alpine]

Meh, cult should have had capped size or limits. The way this was structured it was neigh on impossible.

technically all it required was figuring out who the two non-traitors were

which i think was a lot easier said than done

[Theta Alpine]

i legitimately forgot who the other traitor besides roden was yesterday for a good bit


anyways i will probably retreat away from mafia games for a good while now

[Theta Alpine]

me and fl tried pretty early on to make sure even if one of us went down it would ensure the other survived it and i think we accomplished that pretty well

for a two person group scum team we ended up with fourteen pages in our scum pt at the end

[Theta Alpine]

i was trying so hard to look paired with actiondan and then titus had those results and i for some reason decided to claim that i was in that list

[Theta Alpine]

oh yeah we did have one way of getting real names

my ability was actually that i got an unsorted list of real names and actions of other players that targeted my target
not what i had claimed

and then that turned out to be of basically zero use to us with what actions ended up happening