Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[buldermar]

/CONFIRM

[buldermar]

It's like an infinite fractal recursion, a flickering quantum state of both scum and town.

I was thinking probabilistic equilibrium.

[buldermar]

Yes, but until the box is opened and we observe the cat, the only way to interpret it is that the cat is both alive and dead.

Similarly, until someone flips, we cannot determine who the wine is in front of.

We can still evaluate historical wine consumption and estimate who the more likely to suffer from alcoholism is.

[buldermar]

It's like an infinite fractal recursion, a flickering quantum state of both scum and town.

I was thinking probabilistic equilibrium.

Eh, in a way? But not really b/c equilibrium means the two probabilities are balanced? Actually, that can make sense but it's a stretch. W/e I hate equilibrium anyways.

I don't see how it's a stretch. Care to elaborate?

[buldermar]

@Mod I'm V/LA until saturday.

[buldermar]

Away for just two days and this many pages already:O

If there is something in particular you'd like my opinion on or answer to please let me know. Going to be reading the entire thing now.

[buldermar]

Hmm ok.

Unvote: Vifam

Vote: Cheery Dog

That was really strange DeasVail.

!!!!!!!!!!!

+1

VOTE: DeasVail

[buldermar]

I don't really understand what was scummy about my vote on Vifam?

It's bad only in conjunction with the unvote.

[buldermar]

Well it would've been useless to keep going with it, but ok.

In that case it would also have been useless to start it in the first place.

[buldermar]

In that case it would also have been useless to start it in the first place.

Maybe, but not necessarily. Vifam's response was probably the most null possible.

Feel free to explain what you gained from your temporary vote on Vifam.

[buldermar]

In that case it would also have been useless to start it in the first place.

Maybe, but not necessarily. Vifam's response was probably the most null possible.

Feel free to explain what you gained from your temporary vote on Vifam.

Nothing really, but I

could

have.

Well actually no, this wagon me is quite luscious.

Hi alt.

[buldermar]

I legit have no idea how you guys are finding me scummy here. I'm really completely at a loss for how you discern alignment out of a game so stuffed with garbage that nobody even looks like they're trying.

I'll just replace out and you guys can play with someone who understands how these big games work. And I'll probably avoid them in the future. They're not nearly as fun for me as I thought they would be.

Mod: I'd like to be replaced.

I read this as: I'm really completely at a loss for how you figured out that I'm scum when this game is so stuffed with garbage. I'll just replace out as I'm embarrassed about giving away my alignment so quickly.

VOTE: Paschendale

[buldermar]

It's 16 to lynch. We're no where near it. Think we're at something like 11 or 12.

We were at 14 before that unvote.

[buldermar]

I hate unofficial votecounts.

I dislike sushi. Have you ever skydived?

[buldermar]

I hate unofficial votecounts.

I dislike sushi. Have you ever skydived?

I've never tried sushi. Nor skydiving, though I've always wanted to skydive. I feel like it would be a very freeing experience.

Perhaps too freeing, should you be unfortunate.

[buldermar]

Oh sup Maenara.

Inb4vid+rage.

[buldermar]

buldermar if you're town then you are literally cannon fodder, please make a post that isn't terrible and/or spam

Why? My vote is where I want it to be.

[buldermar]

I legit have no idea how you guys are finding me scummy here. I'm really completely at a loss for how you discern alignment out of a game so stuffed with garbage that nobody even looks like they're trying.

I'll just replace out and you guys can play with someone who understands how these big games work. And I'll probably avoid them in the future. They're not nearly as fun for me as I thought they would be.

Mod: I'd like to be replaced.

I read this as: I'm really completely at a loss for how you figured out that I'm scum when this game is so stuffed with garbage.

I'll just replace out as I'm embarrassed about giving away my alignment so quickly

.

VOTE: Paschendale

UNVOTE:
VOTE: buldarmar

That's a huge unsubstanciated stretch to make that vote on the fast growing wagon. There was more than one way to try to interpret that and you jumped to most damning narrative to give your vote some substance off of words like "embarrassed". If you had cared more on figuring out his alignment you'd have tried to be more cautious in both your diction and ultimate judgement.

This guy is scum. Please vote him.

You seem to be under the impression that I am more accountable for my vote because of already placed votes on Paschendale; this is incorrect.

There was indeed more than one way to try to interpret him asking to be replaced. Whether I jumped to the most damning narrative is a matter of opinion, but I did not try to give my vote substance off of words like "embarrassed", I sincerely think that should he be scum, this is a likely way to interpret it. However, I don't rule out the possibility of him not being scum. In fact, he's statistically more likely to flip town than scum in my opinion, even if he's the most likely person to be scum in the game.

Indeed, I could have been more cautious in my diction. In hindsight, that would probably have prevented your vote on me. I could have phrased the same intended message as "This could be read as: bla bla" I think it's likely enough that reading it this was is correct for me to vote him, bla bla.

Tell me, do you think it could not have been read the way I read it? If so, why not? Do you rule out the possibility of him being embarrassed about giving away his alignment so quickly (given the premise that he's scum, ofc.)? If so, why?

[buldermar]

Unvote, Vote: buldermar

I have a townread on Nacho. He's more inclined to provide reason for his vote when he's scum.

[buldermar]

PEdit: I wouldn't consider that particularly alignment-relevant in Nacho's case, but maybe you're right, I don't know.

He's more concerned with making optimal votes than explaining them when he's town and more concerned with explaining his suboptimal votes (from town perspective) when he's scum. It's not clear-cut, but I do think it has statistical relevance.

[buldermar]

@Nacho

Are you voting me and neglecting explaining why because the rules prohibit it (e.g. it's related to another ongoing game) and/or because you think it is disadvantageous for towns win condition to know?

[buldermar]

Unvote, Vote: combinatorialEnigma

If I explain myself now, then I'll ruin everything that I'm trying to do right now and will have to play

conventional

. Which, quite frankly, would just be disgusting.

In other words, you explaining yourself entails at least in part answers to my questions. Thank you.

[buldermar]

I want to play unconventional too.

I claim scum.

[buldermar]

Modkill?

You're not allowed to claim scum?

[buldermar]

You are not allowed to play against your win condition.

What makes you think I am playing against my win condition?

[buldermar]

Will you unvote should I unclaim?

[buldermar]

You claimed scum 10 minutes ago. The hell you are going to unclaim. And stop posting red.

Getting yourself killed is against your wincon. I've seen it happening. Unless you are a freaking jester.

What makes you think I'm more inclined to make this claim as scum than town? Why do you not want me to unclaim? What do you have against red?

What gives you the impression that I'm getting myself killed?

[buldermar]

If only I knew that claiming scum would get my lynched I would have claimed Jester. Is that too late now?

[buldermar]

P-Edit x2: explain to me why did you claim scum. Now.

Because I'm scum. Why on earth would town claim scum?

[buldermar]

And stop posting red.

Why?

[buldermar]

Buldermar, why aren't you unclaiming?

For reasons I cannot disclose at this time. Ask Nacho, he'll give you a list.

[buldermar]

Die. DeasVail gave you the chance to unclaim and you didn't. Nice play.

P-Edit: gotta love it.

Love is in the air, I can feel it everywhere.

[buldermar]

Oh good we got a fuckin comedian on the field.

You must be the comedian talent scout, then. Pleased to meet you.

[buldermar]

Alright, I have a townread on DeasVail now for two reasons:
1) I think he'd be more likely to postpone voting me to see reactions from other players first had he been scum.
2) I think he'd be less inclined to unvote me so rapidly had he been scum.

[buldermar]

And if you feel like actually playing mafia you can go back to being 'townie' and lynching people. Otherwise vote yourself and wait for the modkill.

I've noticed that you are fond of snide remarks. Is that a requirement as a comedian scout or is it part of your personality?

[buldermar]

Nacho, I have seen town claim scum in RVS and stuff like that, but not as Buldermar did under pressure.

I don't recall being under pressure. Are you sure that you're not retrospectively making this up unconsciously to justify your initial vote on me? Memories can be quite dynamical in that regard.

[buldermar]

Drowning in my tunnel? This guy claimed scum. Asked for the chance to unclaim, got it, and rejected it. And then confirmed himself as scum again. I bet you won't find anything, and yes, even if you do, I won't unvote. The only person that can say something to make me unvote buldermar is himself. Deal with it (or vote him, whatever).

What would I have to say to make you unvote me? I'd like to be precautious so that I don't end up saying it by accident.

[buldermar]

buldermar, can you please tell malp that you were claiming scum in order to get reactions from people so he unvotes you? it's fun to be obstinate and a bit of an ass, but it's not effective unless you learn to play damage control after.

I think it is a bit anti-town of you to effectively lower my odds of getting useful reactions from people by explaining my motive when there is merely one person voting me and 16 required to get lynched. L-15 hardly requires damage control. What's your incentive to do this?

[buldermar]

Please get vigged. What you are doing is distracting people from playing the game.

I will be especially pissed off if your red text bulb shit distracts from the beautiful Pasch wagon that will greet his replacement. And I am fond of snide remarks because sarcasm is the only language I speak and the only thing that keeps me sane with people like you around.

Maybe we're not playing the same game. I'm the guy getting reads from having people react to my posts - you must be that other person.

[buldermar]

Alright, I have a townread on DeasVail now for two reasons:
1) I think he'd be more likely to postpone voting me to see reactions from other players first had he been scum.
2) I think he'd be less inclined to unvote me so rapidly had he been scum.

I don't really know if either of these things are true. I kinda think he 'should know better' than to put the vote down in the first place.

I'll rephrase. I think he's more inclined to "know better" when he's scum.

[buldermar]

Just answer my question: why did you claim scum? And why are you implying that you don't want me to unvote you?

I claimed scum because I'm scum and I implied that I don't want you to unvote me because I'm actually a Jester claiming scum to get lynched. Why else would I claim scum whilst implying that I want to get voted?

[buldermar]

Just answer my question: why did you claim scum? And why are you implying that you don't want me to unvote you?

I claimed scum because I'm scum and I implied that I don't want you to unvote me because I'm actually a Jester claiming scum to get lynched. Why else would I claim scum whilst implying that I want to get voted?

it's too late to claim WIFOM now idiot

Can I still unclaim, though?

[buldermar]

buldermar, can you please tell malp that you were claiming scum in order to get reactions from people so he unvotes you? it's fun to be obstinate and a bit of an ass, but it's not effective unless you learn to play damage control after.

I think it is a bit anti-town of you to effectively lower my odds of getting useful reactions from people by explaining my motive when there is merely one person voting me and 16 required to get lynched. L-15 hardly requires damage control. What's your incentive to do this?

I don't care about today's lynch, that's not the damage I'm referring to.
If you go on too much longer and ACTUALLY make a big deal out of this like you totally can, then the vig's hands will be tied in having to shoot you in order to free up some stubborn town voters (there will be a lot of them, trust me), which means that if the vig is even sort of a decent player you take away a town-controlled kill for the night when you could have just played normally and not caused a shit storm. In addition, you're going to create discussion that is essentially useless for the next 10 pages because you are SO edgy and SO unconventional and my god people just won't be able to resist your crazy antics. I've gotten three good reads from this business and only needed to read a page to get both of them; more pages might offer a couple more, but we won't get much more than that. Instead people will get frustrated because this is the type of thing people feel strongly about, and they will band together and ignore anything that you or I will say for the rest of the game, which is *probably* a bad thing. Having super polarizing D1s can be good when it's an X vs X situation, where each wagon is headed by people who are generally town and feel strongly about the wagon they are pushing, but it is bad when it's X or not X because instead of two viable scum candidates, there will probably only be one, and with things being multiball and scumbags feeling less obligated to bus scum will be harder to catch so things will probably end in a mislynch and then you get vigged and then two sane people will be killed by scum and that's not the sort of start I would like to have.

Ok, I'm convinced. I think I may already have recruited one or two stubborn town voters, though. I honestly can't seem to comprehend why people feel so strongly about this type of thing, which is why I sometimes feel like I'm playing a different game than most other people (you may be an exception). What matters is not always what's said, but somtimes how what's said affects the alignment of the writer, and I don't understand why the second part is so frequently being overlooked.

/unclaim

[buldermar]

^^ is the one of the two stubborn town voters I was referring to, in case you're wondering. I'm sure you can figure out who the other one is.

[buldermar]

... speaking of the devil...

[buldermar]

We're not even voting you.

One of you are voting me. Hint: it's not you.

[buldermar]

I am never forgetting red again. I am never forgetting red again. I am never forgetting red again. I am never forgetting red again.

[buldermar]

Am I done lurking yet?

No, come back once you've tried skydiving and tell me about it.

[buldermar]

Am I done lurking yet?

No, come back once you've tried skydiving and tell me about it.

You realize that unclaiming is not a real thing, right?
You should also realize that claiming scum is ridiculous.
Also realizing that the red is ridiculously annoying.

At this point, it should be entirely obvious to everyone to ignore buldermar. Hes clearly anti-town but not scum.

If people have already come to this conclusion then cool, I skimmed.

Whoever said I should be vigged should be vigged themselves.

Whoever wanted buldermar to die once he claimed is quite scummy, and honestly Nacho said that Pasch was town so I'm clearly not doing anything right.

Whoever said that I was just trying to have fun is just pretty much right on the money.

So according to all this I agree with the DV lynch.

UNVOTE: Paschendale
VOTE: DeasVail

Unclaiming is just as real a thing as claiming is. If you acknowledge the premise of claims, you're automatically also acknowledging the premise of unclaims - they are sides of the same logical coin.

Why is claiming scum more ridiculous than claiming town? In reverse land, claiming town would be the ridiculous thing to do and since this is a game of WIFOM, reverse land is very real.

I think you need to explain why red is annoying.

I think it is anti-town of you to suggest that people ignore me. I also think it is incorrect to state that I'm anti-town.

I don't think whoever wanted me to die once I claimed is scummy. I think more often than not it means that the person isn't very knowledgeable.

[buldermar]

As to the questions; No, he's not replacing out because he's embarrased he was found out as scum even if he were scum. That would require a level of dignity unfit for a human being that I am not prepared to ascribe to paschle. If he's replacing out, it's because he means what he says, that he has no idea why there's a large wagon on him for reasons he can't fathom, which imo is null (although the way he said it makes me lean town on the slot and makes me adverse to lynching it in general).

I sincerely disagree on this matter.

[buldermar]

specifics idiot, im trying to actually gauge a read out of you

If I actually had names to give you, I wouldn't be voting the person that claimed scum.

I guess I can give you people I'm reading null.

- some of these may have slight town points, but not enough to be removed from this list. and I'm not actually sure about all the hyrdas, but I guess they are safe for now.
2. combinatorialEnigma
3. Nachomamma8
4. AurorusVox
5. Alduskkel
7. malpascp Strider
9. Paschendale

12. buldermar

13. Phillammon
15. ActionDan
16. SoraAdvent
17. Maenara GaryOak
21. BroodKingEXE
22. ζ (lowercaseZeta)
24. Guy_Named_Riggs
26. Nikanor
27. numberQ

I lol'ed.

[buldermar]

and deduced that DeasVail (or the other one?) is probably scum for what he did.

This is incorrect. I deduced that they're probably town.

[buldermar]

Evanjalin - 1 - who is this mans????????///

If you had been reading the game you'd know it's an alt of DeasVail.

[buldermar]

Cheery Dog, explain to me why you put me on your null list while voting me.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

[buldermar]

The issue is the deduction, and the way you went about achieving it.

Could you quote the part you find problematic?

[buldermar]

I just realized that Nacho who was recently voted by Cheery Dog is also on the infamous null list. Hilarious.

[buldermar]

And you did a quick and dirty 90 minute fish that caught you a single suspected Town read.

I got at least two strong town reads that I already mentioned. You must not be reading the game closely - don't fault me for that as well.

[buldermar]

I just realized that Nacho who was recently voted by Cheery Dog is also on the infamous null list. Hilarious.

Did you also notice that I said I didn't have any true scumreads at the time of posting the null list? Yeah that helps.

And I voted you at whatever that time was because
1. You had claimed (and unclaimed) scum, I have no idea why you were doing this.
2. The whole conversation at the stage was putting you in bad light.
3. You using red font is annoying.
3a. This is because I am used to all players using black.
3b. When used in large quantities it makes reading more annoying.
3c. It looks awful when quoted and annoys my eyes even more when I switch from reading black>red>black>red

You voted me

while having me on your list of nulls.

1. is a fallacious reason that does not reflect alignment.
2. is a matter of opinion, you'll have to elaborate.
3. is a fallacious reason and utterly unrelated to my alignment.
3a. I don't care what you're used and not used to.
3b. that's a matter of opinion.
3c. your eyes must not be functioning properly. I'd advice you to get them checked.

My turn:

1. you neglected commenting on the fact that you voted me while having me on your list of nulls
2. you've not listed a single reason for voting me that is related to alignment estimation

You're scum scum scum no matter what, it's posts that you make you can never make enough. And every time you make them, your scumminess goes up.... and it stays there!

[buldermar]

As to the questions; No, he's not replacing out because he's embarrased he was found out as scum even if he were scum. That would require a level of dignity unfit for a human being that I am not prepared to ascribe to paschle. If he's replacing out, it's because he means what he says, that he has no idea why there's a large wagon on him for reasons he can't fathom, which imo is null (although the way he said it makes me lean town on the slot and makes me adverse to lynching it in general).

I sincerely disagree on this matter.

Ok, but you haven't given auxillary reasons for believing Paschle is scum. You used that post as evidence for a vote, but the most you're opinionating on is that if Paschle were scum he'd hightail it in shame. Without getting to the "Paschle

is

scum" it's merely circular logic. You haven't said why his post is more likely to be shamed scum then frustrated town.

It's only circular logic to the extent that it's a matter of opinion, which is why I only commented on the fact that I disagree on the matter. I can't provide a reason for considering him leaving in this manner scummy aside the fact that my opinion is that

I consider him leaving in this manner scummy.

There is no global scum/town scale on which to measure action, which is why everything (with the obvious exception of votes) boils down to opinions, WIFOM and what you refer to as circular logic in the end. I'm beginning to think that you're intentionally being obtuse as I give you credit for understanding the point I'm making.

In a similar vein, I could ask you the following: why do you

not

consider him leaving in this manner scummy aside the fact that your opinion is that you

do not

consider him leaving in this manner scummy?

[buldermar]

Unclaiming is just as real a thing as claiming is. If you acknowledge the premise of claims, you're automatically also acknowledging the premise of unclaims - they are sides of the same logical coin.

Why is claiming scum more ridiculous than claiming town? In reverse land, claiming town would be the ridiculous thing to do and since this is a game of WIFOM, reverse land is very real.

I think you need to explain why red is annoying.

I think it is anti-town of you to suggest that people ignore me. I also think it is incorrect to state that I'm anti-town.

I don't think whoever wanted me to die once I claimed is scummy. I think more often than not it means that the person isn't very knowledgeable.

1. Except for the fact that it isn't. Have you ever seen anyone "unclaim"?
2. Because claiming town is the whole mentality of the game, while claiming scum ALWAYS drives the faction you are a part of downhill.
3. My eyes. Use a darker red. Or get this, don't use any color at all.
4. You claimed scum, you need to be ignored. You clearly aren't helping anybody, and thus you should be ignored. However lately you've thrown a lot of content. So I guess you can be noted. Don't pull anymore idiot moves, though.
5. This is a large game, and as such I expect each and every player to know what they are doing. If they know what they are doing and do something wrong then they shall take damage for it. I play the newb card for no one.

I have to add myself to the torg is awesome pool. Also, that's some pretty solid analysis there. Not got long, but: Pash's replacing out feels like a scum reaction to me, Cheerydog looks like scum trying to look town rather than genuinely town, and Nacho is looking very town over the last few pages.

You are being incredibly worthless.

You voted me

while having me on your list of nulls.

Cheery now deserves twice as much rope.

1. Yes
2. This is incorrect.
3. I'll consider picking a darker red.
4. This is fallacious reasoning. Also, claiming scum is not an idiot move.
5. You're delusional if you presume nobody to be new just because this is a large game - maybe even

especially

because this is a large game.

[buldermar]

1. Yes
2. This is incorrect.
3. I'll consider picking a darker red.
4. This is fallacious reasoning. Also, claiming scum is not an idiot move.
5. You're delusional if you presume nobody to be new just because this is a large game - maybe even

especially

because this is a large game.

1. Ok.
2. Except for the case of... you guessed it, the jester. So my logic follows in the fact that you claimed scum, I tell people to ignore you because you are anti town. You are anti town because you are trying to get yourself killed. Ignore jesters, find scum. However you've kinda redeemed yourself, I honestly believed you to be third party when you claimed scum.
3. That is much better, thanks.
4. Claiming scum is not a town move, either. You are the one person in the game that knows you are town. You confirm yourself. And out of all the people to choose to be scum, you pick the one you are 100% sure is town? It is not fallacious.
5. I don't have time or care about newbies. If someone signed up for a game that is not a newbie, I expect them to not expect to be cut slack. Its not delusional, strict maybe, but not delusional.

Honestly bulder, you have skyrocketed on my town list. The whole scum claim thing was ridiculous I'll admit, but I just can't see any of your posts after that to come from a scum mindset. I feel as if we should agree to disagree on some points and refocus our attention on scum and less on technicalities, do you agree?

(seriously, writing him off as an idiot for claiming scum is a bit much coming from you)

I did not write him off as an idiot. I wrote him off as a Jester/thirdparty/antitown.
I voted myself in RVS.
I did not claim scum.
Furthermore, I did not UNCLAIM. Because that makes absolutely no sense.

2. You are confusing "claiming scum" with "trying to get oneself killed". These are two totally unrelated matters. The same applies to "claiming scum" and "being anti-town". I can't believe you'd honest believe me to be a third party for claiming scum: blame yourself for that one, not me.
3. You're welcome.
4. Claiming scum is just as much of a town move as claiming town. I don't "pick" myself to be scum by claiming scum; I can't pick my alignment. Once again, there is no objective scale for what a claim means; it is a subjective matter. The irony was never my claim, but the fact that so many thought it to be anything other than null.
5. There is a difference between stating that you don't have time to care about newbies, and stating that you assume that there are no newbies in this game. You did the latter, not the former.

Yes, I agree on disagreeing. Let's put aside the claim-debate.

[buldermar]

I don't know, I want to vote buldermar on policy because of the claim, and I don't really click with him anyway.

no, you specifically voted him on policy
then listened to him a while, and unvoted

cheery voted buldermar (null read) because the conversation put him in a bad light (this suggests leaning scum) and because he claimed scum, and cheery didn't know why he did that (doesn't make sense).

I think the more likely explanation is that the null list of reads is fabricated and he mistakingly put me on it, forgetting that he was currently voting me. Different explanation, same result: he's scum.

[buldermar]

Because really, let's give him a chance to get lynched due to his own messes as opposed to those of Pasch.

The alignment of the slot doesn't change.

[buldermar]

malpascp, you may unvote me... I unclaimed for you sugar! How can I possibly be scum if I unclaim?

[buldermar]

Also, vote Cheery Dog.

[buldermar]

I am scared to tell you all to stop voting for Cheery just in case he's scum, but I'm close to doing it, if that means anything.

you're super fucking town, i get it

Come on... that post

has

to be null. You must give him incredible little credit as a player for it not to be null.

[buldermar]

Buld, why does it matter if I'm town?

If you're accepting the premise that it

does

matter if you're town, understanding why should be an easy task. The reason that it matters if you are town is because your true alignment affects my personal win condition by dictating what adequate action in this game would be for me. In case you wonder, I do consider you very town.

[buldermar]

Yeah, but I meant, why does Nacho's interpretation of that post matter if I'm town?

It may not, but it still matters.

[buldermar]

Oh sorry, I misread. I'll explain...

[buldermar]

Even if I read you as town, understanding why Nacho interprets something differently from me is important, as it could either means that he has a hidden agenda by virtue of being scum, or that he takes/does not take something into account that I don't/do. In the former case, I need to reevaluate my read on him. In the latter case, one or both of us may learn something from the other.

[buldermar]

Why are you asking?

[buldermar]

Buldermar, it's not null because it's DeasVail, and DV scum and DV town are two very different beasts.

Does he give away his alignment so obviously? I've given him much more credit than that based on his "depths of thinking" in this game.

[buldermar]

Buld, I guess I was asking because it didn't (and still doesn't) seem very significant to me, and it's not exactly possible to question someone every time they disagree with you.

Most of the time I don't bother if I don't expect the person to be capable of teaching me something. I failed to conclude that Nacho was scum in my first newbie game and he impressed me with a post in this game already, so I'm convinced I can learn much from him.

[buldermar]

Him and I both played a game together called Always On, where I ended up buddying him hard for the majority of the game and chatted with him a shitton. I have talked with him a lot as a result of that, and have a pretty good grasp on his meta, I think.

Alright, that also explains the "<3", thanks.

[buldermar]

Whenever buldermar double posts I think it is two people because on the blue background it looks like the vase and on the light blue it looks like two faces. But the red reminds me its the same person.

ACTIVE. LURKER

Do you have no sense of humor?

[buldermar]

Trying to pass it off as humor. I am noting this.

I'm merely stating what is obvious for most people; ask around.

[buldermar]

Noting that it looks like two different things in two different modes of viewing is not really jokey. It comes from a trivial observation about perspective, which you decided for some reason to incorporate into a statement in which only the last sentence is actually possibly funny in any way as an add-on to act like it's a joke when the observation really is a nerdy thing of fact.

It was a joke and it was funny to me because it asserted that my usage of colour is useful when most people consider it a nuisance. You're being a huge vote magnet by behaving like an obnoxious little shit. If you want to avoid getting lynched my advice would be that you shut up or at the very least display more deliberate thinking in your posts.

[buldermar]

you have no reads and everyone is wagonning you, so you replace out
if you're scum, you're curious how everyone is picking up on your scumfuck self so you eat the lynch

I think some people find being lynched on day 1 as scum shameful and will thus opt to replace out with some (from their perspective) dignity when they realize that a lynch is likely unavoidable. Why do you rule this out?

[buldermar]

you have no reads and everyone is wagonning you, so you replace out
if you're scum, you're curious how everyone is picking up on your scumfuck self so you eat the lynch

I think some people find being lynched on day 1 as scum shameful and will thus opt to replace out with some (from their perspective) dignity when they realize that a lynch is likely unavoidable. Why do you rule this out?

mmmmmmm
I don't think Pasch thought the lynch was unavoidable.
I think Pasch just got frustrated because I prefer shaving with Occam's Razor.

In that case you need to make sure you don't miss a spot.

[buldermar]

How is being controversial town

I'm town, and I'm being controversial, that's how.

[buldermar]

Atm I'm mostly concerned about Buldar, Paschle/Tazaro. I have to examine Buldar's lastest few posts when I have a bit more free time, but I'm still in rabid dog mode there. Tazaro is a good lynch. the slot is scummy mostly for the backtrack on Pacshle's aslark vote more than anything else.

Respond to my post #1035 instead of elegantly ignoring it. Thank you.

[buldermar]

Buld, just so you know, I like this red better. (I don't know if anyone else has said this though)

One other person did - and thanks =)

[buldermar]

VOTE: Cheery Dog

[buldermar]

I feel like voting Sunshine and clownfuck because I suspect he's the reason this game is 60 pages

Surely you're doing what you can to prevent it from getting any worse.

[buldermar]

oh i stopped reading buldermar after his scumclaim. why hasn't he been murdered on policy yet?

There is nothing more hilarious than a claim of having stopped reading a post of a person you're quoting. Keep up the ironic incongruities, I always enjoy a free laugh.

[buldermar]

"quoting" should be "responding to" - not that it changes the ironic incongruities.

[buldermar]

I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)

cheery all you are doing is keeping me alive
and that is bad for your team

So you are scum and my reads are right?

Otherwise you being alive would be a good thing.

No.

He is town.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

Welcome to the Cheery Dog wagon, Mr. Robo. I am Mr. Red alongside Dr. Nacho. Enjoy your stay!

[buldermar]

Red eyed Dr. Nacho has spoken and demand that the people vote Cheery Dog. Duuu eeet naau.

[buldermar]

Why is buldermar suddenly acting like a doofus

Because common sense is obviously not a requirement in this game.

[buldermar]

I do like the idea of Felt malpascalp. Especially with posts like 713, 731 ("oh but it wasn't very strong so I don't really mind if he's lynched"), 1204 (as you noted, Z). But your going on about it is getting on my nerves and making me think either a) You're making a big deal out of nothing or b) You're scum with him and bussing him as hard as possible. Or both, they work together.

I'm only going on about it because the spotlight is on Cheery Dog at the moment and it shouldn't be because malpascp is a lot scummier.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised on a {Tazaro/Pandorica/malpascp/Zeta/buldermar} Felt team. malp's interactions with Taz/Pasch and Pandorica are surprisingly similar to those with buldermar. Z manages to not ever say a single thing on buld's claim. buldermar manages to never comment on Zeta. Zeta manages to not comment on Cheery Dog until D2 (meaning there's been a night for scumchat) when buldermar starts pushing CD, even then only saying he's a suboptimal lynch [and 1595 reinforces this idea]. buldermar only started pushing CD after Pandorica couldn't any more.

But continuing with malp: Pandorica's 405 and 430 (both Nexus) are extremely similar reactions to Paschendale and malpascp.

I could continue but I can't think straight any more so I may be back at some stage. But for now, I'll humour ζ and
VOTE: malpascp

I had not noticed buldemar's claim until very recently. Moreover, I try to focus on a small range of suspects per day. You are not scumhunting here. You are stringing a team out of a lack of interactions between players who have not even flipped. That is a conspiracy theory. It is laughable. I didn't comment on you until Day 2. Does that mean I am scum with you?

I was going to write something like this but then realized that someone considering a person scummy for not commenting on a different person for a day in a 30-person game probably wouldn't understand why it's silly. I'm glad you're trying though, thanks.

[buldermar]

no much else big then facemans say I scum and mans all go nuts

I was wrong. You're paying much more attention to the game than I thought. I

have

adjusted my read on you accordingly, but not explicitly. What do you think of Sunshine and Rainbows voting malpascp?

[buldermar]

Does anyone actually think that torgonitoh's posts are worth a damn?

Yes, it's like the one posts for the past few pages that are worth something. I think people overlook the analysis in them because of the language, unfortunately.

[buldermar]

Is that how it works, I just some here and do this

Spoiler:

Nacho so which is more likely? The reasoning he's pushing shows a good amount of thought and looks genuine to me.

i agree he is town as fuck
my wires just got crossed a little

Looking at the two top lynch candidates I think malscalp is more scummy. The scummiest thing I see about Avox is his very weak Tazaro push(that is non-existent Tazaro push). malpsacp is far more scummy as he has soft defended confirmed scum multiple times and never voted for buldemar who he was flipping out about for confirming scum(still have no idea wtf that is about).
VOTE: Maenara

Aren't I currently the second biggest lynch candidate in terms of votes on me?

obvscum

Lol, too many Ms UNVOTE: Maenara
VOTE: malscalp
@Cheery I was talking about the consensus in the thread. From a quick feel I think that they are the most considered candidates. I personally haven't seen anything scummy of you.

obvscum

Unvote, Vote: malpscp

obvscum

and it's therefore correct?

(spoilered because I think it is a stupid thing to do)

obvscum

[buldermar]

Today I learned how one gets 21k posts on this site.

[buldermar]

Just

[buldermar]

do

[buldermar]

liek dis.

[buldermar]

Just

I POST SHIT AS THEY COME AND IT HELPS LET THE ANGER FLOW

DONT TRY TO MOCK MY STYLE WITH ONE WORD POST BULLSHIT WHEN YOUR CLAIMING SCUM D1

I'M SORRY...

DID YOU MEAN "YOU'RE"?

Now fucking vote Cheery Dog already.

[buldermar]

Just

I POST SHIT AS THEY COME AND IT HELPS LET THE ANGER FLOW

DONT TRY TO MOCK MY STYLE WITH ONE WORD POST BULLSHIT WHEN YOUR CLAIMING SCUM D1

I'M SORRY...

DID YOU MEAN "YOU'RE"?

Now fucking vote Cheery Dog already.

[buldermar]

GOOD BOY. I think I like you after all.

[buldermar]

IMSORRY

ICOORECTGRAMMARONTEHITNERWEBZ

THATMEANSIMGOEWD AT DISGAMERITE>?

NONO

IONLYCORRECTGRAMMARONZEINTERNETZWHENPEOPLENOVOTELESCUMTHATISCHEERYDOG

[buldermar]

No you DONT like me. And Im not a fucking SHEEP I vote based onmy OWN goddamn conclusions

LOL... fuck if I care what you base ur votes on, as long as you're voting scum.

[buldermar]

Well then youre doing it wrong

You don't get people to sheep you by correcting their grammar and mocking their style

You just piss people off

You got a lot to learn scrub

Hey goodspelling guy plx dunt unvoat le scum hokay? tyty.

[buldermar]

In retrospect, this explains a lot about how may pages I had to catch up. I am willing to vote either of CE or malpa right now, convince me that malpa is a bad choice.

Vote Cheery Dog, yo. Le PRO that is Fate is doing so, sheep ze master. Kthx.

[buldermar]

NACHO WHY U NO VOAT SCUM ANYMOAR

[buldermar]

Is your catchup more thorough than mine Zdenek?

Hell yeah

but that's exactly why its scummy as fuck.

I don't care about looking town, so I'm not going to go read 50 pages that I told quadz I wasn't just to be "caught up." As you can see I caught your scumass without reading but 1 post, so it really isn't necessary.

You're catchup posts are basically "hey look how many htings ive commented on and i have a full reads list and SHIT YEAH LOOK AT ME IM SO TOWN DONT HRT ME"

so

die

(soon)

I sense great anger in you young Anakin.

[buldermar]

im probably shooting fate

What a waste - scum will kill him anyway.

[buldermar]

Holy frick I'm back and what is this

Nacho, who should I vote?

Noooooo don't move your vote

[buldermar]

I have made an easy 5 step method for YOU to be pro-town.

1) Look at first post, and notice the two light green mafia flips.

2) ISO Malp.

3) Notice his relationship to the two light green flipped scums and his useless posting and shitlurking trying to blow away his wagon.

4) Vote Malp.

5) Spread the news to others to support Vote Malp 2012.

If you give Malp your vote, good people of Mafiastuck, you’ll have a lynch which hears your voice—which fights for your cause of lynching scum. Don't let the voice of the few be overwhelmed by the voices of the unhelpful. It is your duty, your obligation, people of Mafiastuck, to help lynch scum. So vote Malp, good people, and know in your hearts that you’ll be making the right decision.

I'm

Malp

Titan and I approve this message.

This guy claims to be 6-0 as mafia in his signature. If this is true I really can't see him make the obvious mistakes in bussing and buddying that his ISO with respect to Tazaro and Pandorica would imply.

[buldermar]

@Zdenek He's V/LA but actually posting. He is actively lurking despite the pressure on him, townies don't do this.

The premise that town would refrain from posting whilst V/LA whereas scum would not is false.

[buldermar]

I have made an easy 5 step method for YOU to be pro-town.

1) Look at first post, and notice the two light green mafia flips.

2) ISO Malp.

3) Notice his relationship to the two light green flipped scums and his useless posting and shitlurking trying to blow away his wagon.

4) Vote Malp.

5) Spread the news to others to support Vote Malp 2012.

If you give Malp your vote, good people of Mafiastuck, you’ll have a lynch which hears your voice—which fights for your cause of lynching scum. Don't let the voice of the few be overwhelmed by the voices of the unhelpful. It is your duty, your obligation, people of Mafiastuck, to help lynch scum. So vote Malp, good people, and know in your hearts that you’ll be making the right decision.

I'm

Malp

Titan and I approve this message.

This guy claims to be 6-0 as mafia in his signature. If this is true I really can't see him make the obvious mistakes in bussing and buddying that his ISO with respect to Tazaro and Pandorica would imply.

But those are two of the three people he has posted on (excluding you) and they both flipped scum. That's a pretty steep coincidence believe.

@malpa You shouldn't be posting if you are V/LA, then!

In a game with this many people, it is to be expected that such coincidences happens. I'm not stating that his town fwiw, but the logic behind him supposedly being scum is utterly retarded.

[buldermar]

I have made an easy 5 step method for YOU to be pro-town.

1) Look at first post, and notice the two light green mafia flips.

2) ISO Malp.

3) Notice his relationship to the two light green flipped scums and his useless posting and shitlurking trying to blow away his wagon.

4) Vote Malp.

5) Spread the news to others to support Vote Malp 2012.

If you give Malp your vote, good people of Mafiastuck, you’ll have a lynch which hears your voice—which fights for your cause of lynching scum. Don't let the voice of the few be overwhelmed by the voices of the unhelpful. It is your duty, your obligation, people of Mafiastuck, to help lynch scum. So vote Malp, good people, and know in your hearts that you’ll be making the right decision.

I'm

Malp

Titan and I approve this message.

This guy claims to be 6-0 as mafia in his signature. If this is true I really can't see him make the obvious mistakes in bussing and buddying that his ISO with respect to Tazaro and Pandorica would imply.

Have you actually looked at those games?

This guy claims to be 6-0 as mafia in his signature.

If this is true

I really can't see him make the obvious mistakes in bussing and buddying that his ISO with respect to Tazaro and Pandorica would imply.

I trust that you're capable of answering that question yourself.

[buldermar]

Im not doubting that it's true, Im saying that him being 6-0 can mean he just lucked out and had a decent scum team, or a lackadaisical town, for all we know he could have gotten lynched in the first day in most of those games. His scum record doesn't necessarily reflect his performance, especially with such a low amount of scum games.

Does anyone have some actual meta on Malp's scum game? I'd do it myself but I dont want to

I think that on avarage it is better to assume it not to be a coincidence than the opposite. 6 in a row is 1/64=~1.6% of having happened at random given a 50% chance of winning each of them. In other words, I'll need evidence that he's a bad player and I'm going to assume that he's not bad enough to out himself the way Titan suggested until I see reason to assume otherwise.

[buldermar]

I see many mans pick malpasdlfjk. malpasldfjk is dumbmans, but is badmans? no sure, think sunmans or sunrain good pick ok.

QFT. This man understands. Get off that Malp wagon.

[buldermar]

I see many mans pick malpasdlfjk. malpasldfjk is dumbmans, but is badmans? no sure, think sunmans or sunrain good pick ok.

QFT. This man understands. Get off that Malp wagon.

UNVOTE:

Mehdi's sudden vote left a bad taste in my mouth

This is scummy posturing.

This

is scummy posturing.

[buldermar]

Unvote, Vote: Cheery Dog

Welcome back.

[buldermar]

@Medhi, I think I may have overstated since it's actually mostly bad interactions with malp, but there are still these.

Unvote, Vote: Paschendale

Welp, that was scummy as fuck. And it means that I get to start reading the game.
But today is going to be an amazing day and is going to involve lots of drinking, so I do not see myself staying sober enough to play mafia for long.
See you guys sunday.

Unvote, Vote: DeasVail

damn shame, but the pasch is town as fuck
not rereading today, I guess

and only one post where he interacts with paraday before tentatively placing him in his scum reads after placing his other buddies in the town list.

TOWN:
buldermar
DeasVail
TAZARO
Vifam
Titan
Epic
Skyman
Robocop
Porfevor
Wutlolski
Malp
Sunshine and Rainbows

SCUM
Alduskel
CHEERY DOG
Brood
Faraday? Maybe?

obviously there are more townreads than scumreads
don't lynch my townreads
will probably be down for whatever the fuck else

fuck I'm using an assumption that malp will indeed flip lime green scum.
dammit, Nacho isn't today's lynch anyway.

How do people not vote this -_-

[buldermar]

How do people not vote this -_-

I'm having a hard time following everything going on, if it helps, you can see me as a retarded child.
But can you explain to me more clearly who you are talking about in this post.
And why the individual is so scummy?

Ok.

especially the part where my differences make me scum and not playing differently

That doesn't actually have anything to do with why you are scum, it's just why I'm not reading you as town.
I've only completed one game with you so far, so meta arguments aren't even going to work. However I just can't see you being a lazy townie (who also seemed to have put some effort in during day 1)
Heck your interactions with the flipped scum are almost as telling as Malps. (especially if Malp flips lime green)

"Your interactions with the flipped scum are almost as telling as Malps. (especially if Malp flips lime green)"

Cheery quote the strange interactions nacho has with flipped scum.

Asks for proof.

in any case, it doesn't explain why you have such disproportional confidence in this lynch
surely you have something more than "he has x connections with light green scum"? because otherwise there's no need for you to get pissed when people think your wagon is shit.
especially when everyone else is sheeping you because they're like "yeah sure that sounds fair".
and as a result, people are coasting by with bullshit on bullshit.
i am a top contributor because i'm putting a marginal amount of effort into the game, and that's a problem.
cheery has tunneled the fuck out of me for no reason
and everyone is like "yeah, that's fine"
and people like mehdi try to get the game going but everyone ignores him because "hahahahaha we're lynching malp cuz he's such obvscum"
and other people challenge me on my reads because I've been terse
action, don't say i haven't been paying attention

Explains exactly what's going on.

@Medhi, I think I may have overstated since it's actually mostly bad interactions with malp, but there are still these.

Unvote, Vote: Paschendale

Welp, that was scummy as fuck. And it means that I get to start reading the game.
But today is going to be an amazing day and is going to involve lots of drinking, so I do not see myself staying sober enough to play mafia for long.
See you guys sunday.

Unvote, Vote: DeasVail

damn shame, but the pasch is town as fuck
not rereading today, I guess

and only one post where he interacts with paraday before tentatively placing him in his scum reads after placing his other buddies in the town list.

TOWN:
buldermar
DeasVail
TAZARO
Vifam
Titan
Epic
Skyman
Robocop
Porfevor
Wutlolski
Malp
Sunshine and Rainbows

SCUM
Alduskel
CHEERY DOG
Brood
Faraday? Maybe?

obviously there are more townreads than scumreads
don't lynch my townreads
will probably be down for whatever the fuck else

fuck I'm using an assumption that malp will indeed flip lime green scum.
dammit, Nacho isn't today's lynch anyway.

Admits that Nacho's explanation is true and that the proof requested does not exist.

[buldermar]

I'd be willing to make a deal for Nachomamma + cohorts. If we lynch Cheery Dog today and if Malsp survives the night, we lynch him the next day?

Is that acceptable?

That works for me.

[buldermar]

The way I see it, the way Malp outted as a town jailer pretty much condemns him. Town do not string along their role especially when they're a PR. The lack of information when you're on the verge of a lynch with most of the town wanting your neck is ridiculous. Where is the town thought process in that? There isn't one at all.

He may simply not have thought at first that it was a big deal.

[buldermar]

How do people not vote this -_-

because they are smart and have worked out that I am town, unlike the people on my wagon. (except nacho who is scum and therefore has reason to want to lynch me)

Appeal to superiority will not work, so shut up.

[buldermar]

Remind me why cE is ignored again? We've cleared up he's a weak general scum read and that he's lurked a ton, but that's not enough somehow

He's not lurking, he asked to get replaced and the mod is looking for a replacement.

[buldermar]

Before that. Back when I started wanting him lynched near the beginning of the day. Point is he's a weak scum read that's staying alive (in this case with a replacement that'll appear later). Or was he ever super active?

No, but he played exactly like this as town in a previous game I played with him. It's either a town-tell or null. I can link you if you wish.

[buldermar]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23318

Enjoy the 80 pages.

[buldermar]

Buld what do you think of mae considering you know their meta better then I do.

She's playing in a similar way, but I do not trust that it is indicative of alignment.

And buld I maybe blind (well I'm skimming an iso), but how is cE being fairly active even though I see some blanks post wise compare to flaking out?

I don't think he was fairly active in terms of generating content, maybe with the exception of very early in the game. The difference between creating random useless posts and not creating any posts at all is negligible to me.

[buldermar]

Then I just disagree with you. Weak posts show some effort and making multiple is different then not making any posts.

Fair enough.

[buldermar]

Robo who are you voting? Since saying the problem with the plan is scum won't follow it would mean you think I'm mafia.

Wait, gimme a short version on how my vote on someone that isn't you makes me think that you're Mafia? I missed the part where voting Malp condemns you in my mind. I don't even remember you being in this game...

I'm actually just kinda here, waiting for people to just die. Game is moving too fast.

Voting whoever Nacho is voting. I am simply a blind sheep. Nacho is my shepherd. I'm amazed I haven't gotten any flak for this but its a good thing because Nacho is right and Nacho is town so I'm not worried about voting the wrong people.

UNVOTE: Malp
VOTE: Cheery Dog

Things are so much better when we just cooperate and blindly sheep

Welcome to the wagon of people with a clue!

[buldermar]

Fate a not green scum result is close to not scum when the case on him is based on associations with green scum.

Why on earth would he not be scum just because the retarded case on him being green scum is false? In other words, how does a false retarded case on him being green scum affect the odds of him being some other flavored scum?

[buldermar]

Is CE even still officially in this game?

He's in the game because no replacement was found as of yet AFAIK.

[buldermar]

He's replaced out, but his slot can still be lynched just fine.

Which would be pretty dumb considering the fact that his slot does not have the option of claiming a role that potential could be confirmed/disconfirmed.

[buldermar]

And explain b more? Shooting someone who's going to be lynched isn't bad since it essentially skips one lynch and let's town look at the next (although I'd have to agree with it first).

The next could potentially be town as will, leading to a net result of two dead towns whereas you shooting a scum would lead to a net result of one dead town and one dead scum.

[buldermar]

Build him not bring green scum removes the main case on him so while doesn't clear him it defintely lowers his chances of being scum.

This is not what you said before.

[buldermar]

And explain b more? Shooting someone who's going to be lynched isn't bad since it essentially skips one lynch and let's town look at the next (although I'd have to agree with it first).

The next could potentially be town as will, leading to a net result of two dead towns whereas you shooting a scum would lead to a net result of one dead town and one dead scum.

Both ways have equal chance of shooting town.

I'm pleased that we agree on something.

[buldermar]

I AM V/LA. YOU ARE ACTING STUPID. FUCK THOSE FUCKERS THAT PSEUDO-HAMMERED ME.

NO I'M NOT HERE TO GIVE READS AGAIN. I DON'T HAVE TO.

I HAVE ONE OF THE MOST CONFIRMABLE ROLES IN THIS GAME. JUST TELL ME TO DO SHIT OR WHATEVER.

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ME?

Try claiming scum instead - it worked for me.

[buldermar]

P-edit: why can't he just be scum in general i don't care what fucking color he is

He can't be scum without being a flavor. If he can't be a flavor then he can't be scum. Quit being so dumb.

[buldermar]

Pick a wagon. I don't remember anything from you that isn't Cheery-related.

I'm sorry about your poor memory and I'm on the wagon I want to be on.

[buldermar]

I'm literally trying to strongarm some lynches here I think I deserve the right to post some fluff when I feel like it, god damm it

You have literally been pushing like any wagon that gains some wheels?

Except Cheery.

No, not "literally" but "figuratively".

[buldermar]

Buldermar can you please cooperate when people ask you questions?

Yes, possibly. What questions?

[buldermar]

Buldermar can you please cooperate when people ask you questions?

Yes, possibly. What questions?

I've mentioned that I don't recall your take on the other wagons. (Malp, AVox, Maenara) Can you state them clearly?

Lynching a claimed power role that will likely not make it to LyLo anyway and could potentially be confirmed/disconfirmed by virtue of flips of other scum and elimination of possible scum power role permutation is a fundamental mistake. Of the three, the Malp wagon is by far the worst. The AVox and Maenara wagons seems more diffuse with respect to reasons for the votes.

[buldermar]

I also support having people tell me why the plan sucks vs just it's bad. Some have, but more haven't.

Still wouldn't want the mae wagon though. Cheery I can swap to, but no for mae.

I think your plan is better than simply lynching Malp today, but I'd rather have you use your kill on someone I actually think may be scum.

[buldermar]

I unvoted because you have shown signs of actually being town with those posts.

Please show these signs of actually being town in his recent posts.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Maenara

Maenara, you may as well claim now as you'll inevitably reach L-1.

[buldermar]

This is stupid.

Assuming maenera is not a criminal mastermind who is next leveling me into making the following argument, regardless of alignment, this was a real case of failed reading comprehension.

How poor reading comprehension is a scum-tell is beyond me. If anything lack of precision in your words seems townish to me.

Laziness is a scum-tell because scum can afford to be lazy (as they already know that they have to get rid of everyone that isn't in their team) whereas town cannot. I don't think this is due to poor reading comprehension, I think it's due to being too lazy to read carefully and accidentally revealing this by misinterpreting something that a non-lazy (i.e. town) person would not have misinterpreted.

[buldermar]

I still think this is a dumb lynch though (kind of similar to all my remarks on mae yesterday). And the scum slip is what? Thinking it was a guilty and jumping on a wagon. Well if it was a guilty that people believed to have been hinted the wagon would have sprouted either way. So that leaves skimming. Yeah great argument.

Wut.

The argument is that town have a lot, lot, LOT higher percentage to actually look closely before voting.

Scum can just notice something quickly and jump on it.

Holy shit a post from Titan that I agree with. I guess it may be the law of large numbers at work.

[buldermar]

DAFUQ, DONT MESS WITH MY MIND LIKE DAT

[buldermar]

Any alignment can show a lack of attention, they're have been examples in this game where it's been apparent where nobody is paying any goddamn attention.

If you think Maenaera is scum come up with something better than THIS, for the love of god. CheeryDog's post about Maenaera (which I bet half the people on his wagon skipped) was better than this trash/

There is a difference between not paying attention, and not paying attention while pretending to be paying attention and voting someone.

[buldermar]

I agree with the consensus on the Vifam thing; i.e. that

it seems like xToph was trying to breadcrumb a result

.

VOTE: Vifam

This is effectively pretending to be paying attention while you're not.

[buldermar]

I'm thinking really fucking hard here and can't come up with a town-reason for pretending to be paying attention while you're not and voting someone based on pretended attention when you're not about to be lynched yourself or anything like that. Help me out, Vifam.

[buldermar]

Because mafia is so much more likely to mistakenly read a breadcrumb of innocence into one of guilt. Unless Vifam and maenera are scumbuddies that makes zero sense.

Are you aware of the meaning of the word "pretending"?

[buldermar]

I honestly think I have provided way more content than AVox.

If you want something in particular I'll answer just about any of your questions.

What is your third favorite color?

[buldermar]

@buldermar: IDK. Who actually has a THIRD favorite color? It'd probably be something bluish I guess. Was there a point to this question aside from silliness?

Yes. Third favorite colors correlate well with alignment. You're obviously town.

[buldermar]

when fate's in the game and i need someone to sheep, i will sheep him
if he wasn't in the game i would feel fine sheeping you

You're willingly sheeping a person that is scum some percentage of the time over a person that is a confirmed or close to confirmed town? Fate will have to be pretty good as town and pretty bad as scum for this to make sense.

[buldermar]

when fate's in the game and i need someone to sheep, i will sheep him
if he wasn't in the game i would feel fine sheeping you

You're willingly sheeping a person that is scum some percentage of the time over a person that is a confirmed or close to confirmed town? Fate will have to be pretty good as town and pretty bad as scum for this to make sense.

No...?

Yes, as every time he's scum you'll effectively be helping scum lynch town. Therefore, given the premise that you have to sheep someone who is

always/close to always

town, Fate has to be playing well as town (so that you more often help lynching scum than town relative to what would be achieved by sheeping a confirmed town) and poorly as scum (so that the sheeping of him when he's scum doesn't lead to actual lynches of town people but just a wasted vote). How can you deny this? Je ne comprends pas.

[buldermar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BroodKingEXE

[buldermar]

I think I'm mostly saddened by the fact that a scum read (buldar) of all people is talking sense to Nacho.

Who is to blame for your retarded scum read?

[buldermar]

GOODPOSTING, WRONG DIRECTION

Wrong, 2889 was terrible. I'll happily vote Maenara instead but the shepherd and his sheeps don't wanna.

[buldermar]

DV its people like you, me, buldermar and others that have the same sort of "general" reads like Zdenek, Brood, and co being scum. We need to come together on someone, that someone is Vifam BECAUSE its so hard to build a case on him his slippery scummass. I mean he's not even riding a DGB wagon mislynch fodder, so you know he's playing it for the fucking long haul

Fate, I'll vote Vifam if you can show me why Maeanara is not scum, because it seems so retardedly obvious to me that he must be.

[buldermar]

Buld if the brood vote was based on my push there can you switch to av (or why not av?).

Av is town. Jesus.

[buldermar]

I guess if it comes down to it I'd rather lynch Vifam than Av.

[buldermar]

Avox has been objectively playing bad all game, and now he has to pay his dues. He got off yesterday to Malp's shittiness, but I'm not gonna let Maenara's bad reading abilities let Avox last ONE MORE day.

EVEN FUCKING SCUM

CANT

MAKE A FUCKIOGN CASE

ON AV

THE ONLY CASE

IS

"HES BEEN LAZY"

"HES BEEN AFK"

ITS BECAUASE HES A FUCKIN PR

HES NOT SCUMMY

HES A PR

AREYOU ALL FUCKING BLIND

VIFAM IS SCUM HERE JESUS

I was thinking something in the lines of this when I read that comment but I still think Maenara is a better lynch.

[buldermar]

I think I'm mostly saddened by the fact that a scum read (buldar) of all people is talking sense to Nacho.

Who is to blame for your retarded scum read?

Your Pasche vote D1 was scummy as fuck and it was backed up by nothing short of: "It's an opinion bro" when you literally didn't give 2 fucks as to what the guy said earlier in making your judgement call.

I thought we went over this already. You must have failed to understand the points I was making since you still find it legitimate reason to consider me scummy.

[buldermar]

So you're one of the people listening to Fate

There is no helping you

?

I'm one of the people listening to Fate because I happened to be thinking what he was thinking regarding one post?

?????

[buldermar]

oh buldermar's not on it.

[buldermar]

I feel you trembling behind your posts VIFAM

I FEEL IT

and I wasn't wrong about Cheery, Nacho was.

He was a helluva better wagon than malptown but he was never really on my LOL GUARANTEEDSCUM LIST

aka

I've been right 100% this game

You sheep me

Nao

this is realllllly bad because fate evidently did suspect cheery if you look at his iso and is attempting to avoid accountability so that people will sheep him on a case that doesn't exist

i 100% endorse any shot on buldermar just because his entire iso is unfunny and condescending shitposting and i don't want to be in the same game as him

not a real reason but fuck you

I don't know which of the head is making all the retarded remarks but I suppose the heads are reciprocally taking responsibility. So:

[buldermar]

VOTE: Maenara

[buldermar]

Ideally I want Maenara dead first, because he seems like a more competent player (more likely to be a scum PR).

Because everyone knows that competent players get power roles more frequently than do incompetent.

[buldermar]

Oh, I just realized that Titan must be town.

[buldermar]

pedit: DUDE I WAS JUST GOING TO TELL YOU TO WALL SO PEOPLE THOUGHT YOU WERE TOWN
good stuff

The Art of Walling

Chapter 1: Timing

[buldermar]

no.

And that is by far the strongest reason pointing to AV scum. If we took a poll I'd bet at least a majority of the town would have watched Porfevor. In my first mini-theme game I played the only reason I suspected MoI when he was scum fakeclaiming a PR was because one target of his wasn't optimal and he never explained it. Unlike Malspc, AV is an experienced player and I hold him to the same standards.

STOP MAKING NO SENSE?!?!! IF HE IS SMART ENOUGH TO WATCH PORFEVOR AS TOWN THEN HE IS OBVIOUSLY ALSO SMART ENOUGH TO FAKECLAIM HAVING WATCHED PORFEVOR AS SCUM. IT'S A NULL - JESUS.

[buldermar]

Sorry I wanted to be part of the CAPS LOCK club.

[buldermar]

No the argument is still utterly retarded. On that token he might as well when he is scum intentionally watch specifically Porfevor just to then claim so, which would mean him=town, whilst avoiding any incongruities in actual action. It's WIFOM and there is no way to confirm/disconfirm the distribution.

[buldermar]

This is like when people argue that "scum would have nightkilled player X". That's silly, because scum can make that argument as well.

[buldermar]

Who cares about all that shit in the end his overall play has been terrible if he's a town PR he's played REALLY fuckin' bad

And who fucking cares about this? He's not scum, that's what matters. Do you want to get lynched? Because I'm going to be tempted changing my vote if you keep up this level of stupidity.

[buldermar]

Actually scratch that.

VOTE: Vifam

[buldermar]

But then you'd just be joining the people who are pushing shit and spazzing out, you'd be wasting your time.

PEDIT: Oh wait you did it anyway

I'm not spazzing out. I think you've been specifically pushing AV beyond what can reasonably be expected by you as town.

[buldermar]

LETS ANALYZE MY WAGON FOR A SECOND, PLEASE.

Fate - Is voting me because __________

Nacho - Sheeping fate bcuz IT'S FATE

Avox - Accusing me of drawing him out, despite the fact that if I was on the scumteam and saw his Noir comment I i could have easily put 2 and 2 together and just kill him. I'm not an idiot.

Why would you want to join these people it's like swimming in the kiddie pool at age 15

Oh so if someone else is voting you for a retarded reason and I'm voting you for legitimate reason then I should unvote you? You're amusing.

[buldermar]

No the argument is still utterly retarded. On that token he might as well when he is scum intentionally watch specifically Porfevor just to then claim so, which would mean him=town, whilst avoiding any incongruities in actual action. It's WIFOM and there is no way to confirm/disconfirm the distribution.

Except it's in town's best interests to watch Porfevor. It's in scum's interest to watch one of their own. It's not the same as NK wifom because only scum NK. It's not like one of them wants to own it.

That's only true if you completely ignore advantages/disadvantages of having done either when claiming/fakeclaiming. By doing so, it does not resemble a real scenario at all. I'll repeat: it is also in the scum's interest to be able to fakeclaim a town role and have people believe this fakeclaim, which is achieved by targeting who you would have targeted had you been town. It's essentially the same as NK wifom, just with a secondary layer, which may be what is causing you trouble comprehending it.

[buldermar]

You don't have a result for last night, AV?

Odd and Even

LETS ANALYZE MY WAGON FOR A SECOND, PLEASE.

Fate - Is voting me because __________

Nacho - Sheeping fate bcuz IT'S FATE

Avox - Accusing me of drawing him out, despite the fact that if I was on the scumteam and saw his Noir comment I i could have easily put 2 and 2 together and just kill him. I'm not an idiot.

Why would you want to join these people it's like swimming in the kiddie pool at age 15

Oh so if someone else is voting you for a retarded reason and I'm voting you for legitimate reason then I should unvote you? You're amusing.

No, but your reason sucks and your joining the other people who suck so yeah you suck

Have you ever heard a scum say "oh, you're right, you're actually voting me for legitimate reason"? No? Good, then stfu because you'll always be claiming that my reason sucks and you'll do so regardless of your alignment.

[buldermar]

Umm.

We have 2x scumteams and only 3 kills each night.
Why are we assuming the other vig claim is true? :\

There may be protective roles as well.

[buldermar]

No the argument is still utterly retarded. On that token he might as well when he is scum intentionally watch specifically Porfevor just to then claim so, which would mean him=town, whilst avoiding any incongruities in actual action. It's WIFOM and there is no way to confirm/disconfirm the distribution.

Except it's in town's best interests to watch Porfevor. It's in scum's interest to watch one of their own. It's not the same as NK wifom because only scum NK. It's not like one of them wants to own it.

That's only true if you completely ignore advantages/disadvantages of having done either when claiming/fakeclaiming. By doing so, it does not resemble a real scenario at all. I'll repeat: it is also in the scum's interest to be able to fakeclaim a town role and have people believe this fakeclaim, which is achieved by targeting who you would have targeted had you been town. It's essentially the same as NK wifom, just with a secondary layer, which may be what is causing you trouble comprehending it.

I agree with you that fake-claiming to watch Porfevor if he really watched Pandorica is viable. You could certainly make the argument that if AV was scum, he'd have watched Profevor and claimed he had watched Profevor to show he did a irrefutable townie thing to make people believe he was town. Still, it's just as viable that as scum he'd watch Pandorica instead, since it's just as viable a strategy for scum to do. Because he has committed to claiming that he watched Pandorica, the above wifom need not be considered. It only remains to determine if he watched Pandorica as scum, or as town. Because it was a superior choice to watch Profevor over Pandorica, It would be scum who made the choice to watch Pandorica. If you argue that scum would not claim to watch Pandorica precisely because it would incriminate them, I would argue that Av would not expect to get flak for his choice and wouldn't have thought it would be a problem.

I disagree with the premise that "because it was a superior choice to watch Profevor over Pandorica, it would be scum who made the choice to watch Pandorica". I still insist that it is wifom, but I'll respect that you disagree with this.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Phill
will go for fate if this doesn't take off

You're going for anyone, scum.

[buldermar]

I never said I didn't want to lynch him?

One would think that a town player would be explicit about potential scums. Then again, you're not a town player, so who cares.

[buldermar]

I don't think Phil is scum and I remember commenting on it earlier, I forgot what I said but I know it made sense

I don't necessarily have a problem with a Phil wagon seeing as he's fizzled out since then.

Wasn't Fate pushing him earlier?

...

Vifam knows that Phil isn't scum and therefore has no problem with a wagon on Phil. Seems perfectly congruent to me.

[buldermar]

Sanjay (8): Bumi, BT,

Maenara

,

Sunshine and Rainbows

, Titan, mehdi2277,

Vifam

, DrippingGoofball

[buldermar]

Sanjay (8): Bumi, BT,

Maenara

,

Sunshine and Rainbows

, Titan, mehdi2277,

Vifam

, DrippingGoofball

Not to mention Maenara is confirmed. Actually, the only two I'm null on from that list are Titan and DGB.

Maenara is confirmed??

[buldermar]

Maenara is confirmed??

Well, Mehdi-confirmed.

I must have missed something. Could you elaborate on it?

[buldermar]

Maenara is confirmed??

Well, Mehdi-confirmed.

I must have missed something. Could you elaborate on it?

He went out and admitted that his role confirmed Maenara to him in one way or another.

I don't know how one could

miss

it (and the two pages that followed....), but here.

Reading it, I'm not sure either. Thanks.

[buldermar]

AV depends on his play for tomorrow, but thinking I'm leaning to let him in. For now I don't want (although having vote with us is always good) him in but a day later that could be changed. Forgot nacho and currently his play has been actually fairly strange. Not bad, just odd gut wise. Choices he's making while explainable still seem weird. Wouldn't want him in it.

UNVOTE: Sanjay VOTE: Brood If that block is formed let's see how well it works (that and sanjay's reaction isn't bad at all to getting that many votes).

Sure I'm fine w this vote.

VOTE: Brood

[buldermar]

town voting blocks are retarded (especially in multiball of all things) and im not interested in this. there are enough people not taking accountability for their vote in this game already, like zdenek who just cut me, and is scum

It doesn't really matter. If a confirmed town is making the decision of who to vote and a supposed scum willingly agreed to follow this confirmed town no matter what, the supposed scum would give away his alignment if he deviates from this plan and, as such, it is beneficial for town having him in the "voting block".

[buldermar]

I'm totally willing to be accountable for my vote on BroodKing. Hell, I've been calling him scum for awhile now.

This applies to me as well.

[buldermar]

Me + mae + bumi + dan + S&r + buld + titan + BT

Anyone you'd argue for/against town block wise?

pretty sure nacho + wutloski should be on it too. personally i would put dgb and zdenek, but w.e.

oh and take out bumi buld and mae because lololol idgaf if they're town or not i'm not blocking with them.

But I'm not on The List TM

[buldermar]

oh right buld

yeah i dunno about him. i have this sinking feeling like i know he's town but just don't want him to be

I have the same sinking feeling about you, except stupid instead of town.

[buldermar]

If it can get votes controlled even if most of the decision is by the better players it works.

okay. lets fucking do this this way.

me, tammy, mehdi, bumi, dan, S&r, BT, nacho, and wutloski if you're around (and i guess mae and buld) rank these three from most want to least want to lynch

brood
phill
sanjay

i would presonally put vifam and fate on there too but people seem to not want vifam and i haven't read back that much to see what happened to the fate wagon.

(ps quil should be in the bloc too i think)

Brood, sanjay, phill. Would personally put Vifam first. I have never played with Fate before, but I give him more credit than most others so I don't trust myself to make any judgement with respect to his alignment as of yet.

[buldermar]

To clarify on I don't want nacho/wutloski in the town block deciding who we're voting.

If you allow them to give their votes to you, they have to do so

before

you state your desired lynch of the day.

[buldermar]

Why would you ask your partner's thoughts on this when you can discuss it privately?

Just to clarify: hydras are allowed to discuss the game

outside

the game with their other heads?

[buldermar]

Me + mae + bumi + dan + S&r + buld + titan + BT

Anyone you'd argue for/against town block wise?

pretty sure nacho + wutloski should be on it too. personally i would put dgb and zdenek, but w.e.

oh and take out bumi buld and mae because lololol idgaf if they're town or not i'm not blocking with them.

What? I'm not reading dgb as town for one and zdenek is yet to be seen. Torg is cool and funny and all but eh and I'm not sure what nachos doing right now, though I think he's town.

But bumi, buld and Mae are fine.

Are you just intentionally trying to piss people off because that's what it feels like you're doing. I know you like to push people to get reads but it's going a little bit too far and sometimes doesn't seem to have a purpose and is really unprovoked - like this post.

I'm all caught up with the thread and need to do a couple Isos which I'll do in a bit.

you can keep that to the quicktopic i think

I suppose this answers my question. If you actually have a quickpost for discussing these matters with your other head please consider doing so and do so before explicitly stating opinions in this thread, such as reads. Otherwise, I'm inclined to (and would advice others to) disregard every read you make, unless it has been explicitly agreed upon by both heads. Having one head consider a person scum and another consider that person town allows for backpedaling as scum and is as such by definition anti-town. This goes for all hydras, ofc.

[buldermar]

Nope. Don't care.

I respectfully stopped acting creepy and you can't even do this?

Well I'm going to disregard all reads from the Titan slot unless the read explicitly states that this is something both heads in the slot agrees on.

[buldermar]

Nacho had it right day one. There's no way no how I'd let Arthur have the reigns and be the dominate player in a scum hydra and let myself get so far behind that I barely posted and basically sheeped him, not when I'm the one who comes off more town usually anyway.

You can't sheep your own slot when you only got one vote, so fuck off with this bullshit explanation.

[buldermar]

I assumed 20:5:5. With current town power that doesn't seem unreasonable. Two vigs one of which clears one person, cop, stronger jailer, and still a lot more people alive with potential powers (including AV as a good chance of being watcher).

Have you ever played a 20:5:5 game? I don't think that would be balanced, even with the power roles you mention+more. 22:4:4 or 21:4:4:1 are more likely to me.

[buldermar]

And I think it's only fair to give S&R 2 votes since they're a hydra too with 2 people w/ different thoughts that have the same role PM (which people read as town).

I'm not even going to bother explaining why hydras should not get two votes. If decisions are being made on this premise, I'm simply not going along with the block. Use your damn QT to form an opinion on the list.