Micro 70 ~ Mafia in Triplicate (Game Over!)

[saulres]

This broken circle jerk needs a wagon to arise from it.

VOTE: Xalxe

[saulres]

Still not getting it. Why did Konowa ask about Vangelis?

NS, how about playing this game, instead of some hypothetical bastard game?

[saulres]

Apologies to all that my participation is going to be not up to my normal standards. RL has hit me especially hard all of a sudden (not storm-related).

I will analyze the current discussions when I can focus more properly, but I'd also like to say that I am very not happy with the lack of participation from Xalxe and Shamrock, especially given activity elsewhere. I've seen scum win several Micro games by lurking so I'm going to be particularly hard on lurkers (without, hopefully, sounding hypocritical). So I think my vote is good where it is.

[saulres]

Sorry I missed your birthday, Tierce. Hope it was a good one!

I have just skimmed, and can't really discuss all the new stuff that came in, so I'm focusing this post on those things I can comment on / respond to / notice easily. More hopefully tomorrow.

It is a bastard game.

Where does it state that?

Shamrock shows up just as saul calls him out. Hmm.

Pot, meet kettle.

Interesting also that you haven't taken your vote off your RVS person. I don't remember if that's your normal play or not but it does strike a chord.

Still good with my vote where it is.

Are you seriously complaining about lack of content in a totally contentless post?

Wasn't contentless; aside from my explaining that my content isn't going to be up to par, game-wise it included an explanation of why I left my vote on Xalxe.

Tierce, where's your rage? You town-raged on me in another game when you thought I was scum, you scum-raged on Amrun in PARANOIA Mafia. I'm glad you're calm on your birthday but your changed demeanor is worrisome. Has it changed since we last played together?

[saulres]

Why is it worrisome if what you call 'rage' is alignment-null?

That was actually bothering me too so I thought about it today, and realized it's because I made a mistake. I was remembering your rage vs. Amrun and thought it was in PARANOIA Mafia where you were scum, but it was really in Worst Roles where you were town. I also remembered you saying somewhere (I'll have to look for it when I have time) that you're all rage-like when you're town but more calm when you're scum, and

that

is what was worrying me. I just couldn't put my finger on that memory yesterday.

[saulres]

Where the hell is Xalxe? Is he hoping to lurk to a win here?

I'll look for more scum when I can focus better.

[saulres]

You are one who is lurking. You have 6 posts, the lowest in the game. You are calling out the person with the second lowest number of posts.

Umm... You do understand that there's a difference between someone who feels lucky to have five to ten minutes to visit the site each day and someone who posted two pages of posts elsewhere on site but is avoiding this game, don't you?

In case you don't: There are plenty of people in this game with several posts but minimal if any content. Then there's someone staying away from the thread entirely.

The following won't help my case at all, but I feel it's only fair to say it: I don't expect my participation to really be able to increase until Tuesday, maybe Wednesday at the earliest. If you'd all prefer I replace out, I will do that. Otherwise I still hope to be able to get some time to really analyze.

[saulres]

RL may be easing up, yay! I'm not going to commit to more than one post a day until I know for sure, but I did have unexpected time today to get caught up with a full re-read, and I took notes.

Tierce, I don't remember Xalxe flaking from your game, but I do remember him flaking from one of mine when he was town. Not that that means he's town this time, though.

Next. I've seen a lot of comments in this game that Shmugen always appears to be scum, even when he's not, but that doesn't mean he's not scum this time. In my full reread, the single scummiest post I saw in the entire game was his 44. Let me bring the relevant part here. The other "one of the two" he's referring to is NS:

@F16 - If I had to pick one of the two to be scum, I'd pick Tierce, but any scum worth their salt knows they have to pick their battles. This battle is silly and not one I would bother fighting if I was scum, ergo I think they're both town.

"If I had to pick one of the two to be scum" -- He gives a reason for Tierce not being scum if NS is town. He gives

no

reason for NS not being scum if Tierce it town. And yet somehow, "they're both town".

Read his post with him not knowing either Tierce or NS's alignment. Then read it again with him knowing them.

VOTE: Shmugen

I have townreads on Tierce and Shamrock which I can give reasons for later if anyone wants.

@Konowa

: 2 questions. 1) What did you mean by "Shmu also."? And 2) Who do you mean by "their" in 101 ("I find it easier to find scum by focusing on

their

scumreads, not

their

townreads.")

Shmugen, for my paranoia surrounding lurkers in a micro, see here, and zach's play within that. We haven't had a hammer yet but Xalxe's play had me feeling the same kind of thing I was feeling with zach. Now I'm getting the same kind of vibes from NS and possibly konowa. I'm willing to vote NS but I'd rather lynch a scumslip than a lurktell.

[saulres]

Saul, my 'if I had to pick one' comment was not dependent on Tierce or NS to establish the status of the other.

I don't see that. If you thought the argument was silly, then if you're town, there are three possibilities:

1) It's a scum-on-scum battle.
2) It's a town-on-town battle.

You didn't put forth either of the above possibilities. You went with the third option:

3) It's a scum-on-town battle. That's when you said "if I had to pick one". As town, you shouldn't be picking one, you should be looking at both possibilities. Either:
a) Tierce-scum vs NS-town, or
b) Tierce-town vs. NS-scum.

You addressed option a. And then you said that that option didn't work, because you couldn't see Tierce-scum making such a big deal out of that argument. And that's what you said in 176:

At this stage of the game, Tierce was fighting with Nobody Special over something I considered silly/frivolous. If Tierce was scum, this is not a battle I would see her fighting, ergo my thinking

she

was town.

But when you

originally

came to a conclusion, without using option b at all, you said:

ergo I think they're

both

town.

Where did your "NS is town" to come to that conclusion come from? I see absolutely nothing in the thread before that post to give

anyone

the idea that NS is town. That's why I see it as a scumslip, it reads like you

know

NS's alignment (either that he's town, or that he's a scumbuddy that you're trying to gloss on by).

---

I really dislike the way you point out that this information exists and is potentially valuable, but then fail to integrate it into the conclusions you draw in any substantial manner.

Um... I

did

integrate it. It was subtler with Xalxe (I stopped voting him but didn't say that meant I thought he was town), but I thought quite clear with Shmugen ("Just because he's always called scum, I'm not going to let that dissuade me from thinking he could actually

be

scum in this game", followed by me voting him).

you're using meta-evidence to justify lurkers being dangerous in micros, but you're not willing to take meta-evidence into account when it pushes against the argument you've decided on...

When did I not take it into account? I stopped voting for Xalxe.

---

Oh look, my scumread puts me at L-1 without mentioning it. Why am I not surprised?

---

F-16 wants my reasoning for my townreads.

Tierce: The first townpoints I gave her were for 40. She asked you the same thing I wanted to ask you, which is saying "Hey! How come you don't suspect me (Tierce)?" Scum could just sit back and not say anything, but she drew attention to the fact that you didn't express any suspicion of her. So some townpoints there.

The next comment in my notes is when I got to 73 is "So obvtown by this point it hurts". I think what happened as I was going was I kept agreeing with her and suddenly realized it. And she continues to do pro-town things, like notifying everyone that I'm at L-1.

Shamrock I read as town for 54 and 55. By that time I was convinced that Shmugen was scum and I didn't see his question or his vote as coming from a scumbuddy.

Why would Shmugen want to "pick his battles" as town?

I didn't say that, I was quoting Shmugen.

[saulres]

Tierce,

In response to 182: All posts I made before 167 were when I had 5, maybe 10 minutes to be onsite each day. I skimmed and I commented on the things I thought were worth giving a little bit of attention to (including, as always, answering questions posed to me and responding to allegations made against me). 167 came after a thorough and detailed reading of the thread. I picked up on way more things during that than in the skimming. So the sequence of events you're questioning are, to me, non-chronological. 109 and 113 were made on previous days with minimal if any analysis. My thoughts about 40 and 73 were made today when I was looking in detail.

In response to 183: I wanted to ask F16 about his 39 because it was another example of someone's post that seems to imply alignment knowledge. He offered a couple of "possibilities" to explain your actions. Neither of them included "she's scum". I didn't think his townread on you, based entirely on breaking the RVS circle, was strong enough to be talking about you like you were conftown.

As to trying to pander to you? I can see where you might think that, but it's not the case. I call 'em like I see 'em.

[saulres]

Oh come off it Tierce. It doesn't matter to me one whit whether someone played with you or not, if they're town they should have paranoia of

everyone

.

Shmugen is making assumptions as to what Tierce is doing (digging to see what comes up) which he doesn't know. It is a possibility that Tierce is digging.

It is also a possibility that Tierce has a legit scumtell on NS.

The sentence before the bold is saying what Shmugen said. The bold sentence is an original thought. If I wrote those sentences, to show possibilities, it would be followed with "It is also a possibility that Tierce is scum trying to fabricate a case" or something like that. The absence of such a line,

especially

so early in the game, is suspicious, no matter if he's played with you before or not.

[saulres]

By the top of page 3, you were so convinced that Shmugen was scum that you were willing to start drawing conclusions about other people's alignment based on their interactions with him? This seems like a bit of a stretch.

Do you agree or disagree with this quote

Sorry I missed that.

Yes, by the time I got there I felt he was scum. But it was more than that. In 54 you questioned him, and questioned me. But then you didn't place a vote until the next post. That felt like town saying "You know, this bothered me enough that I think it's worth putting a vote on that guy." If you were scum, no matter what Shmugen's alignment was, when you crafted 54 you would have intended to vote at that time and you would've put the vote in there in the first place.

@ Saulres, did you find my 39 suspicious? If so, why are you voting the person I voted in that post? (Unless you think I am bussing Shmugen that early in the game).

I found it suspicious enough on my read-through that if I were following real-time I would have asked you about it. But I didn't read it real-time, and I have other notes on you that made me not as worried about that for now.

you're saying that not waffling on a RVS-born Townread by post 39 is scummy?

Where did I say that?

I am curious as to how you found time to follow the activity of other players, and more importantly why you felt the need to check it when you yourself can barely find time to post.

I wanted reactions from Xalxe. I kept hoping they would materialize. It takes no time at all to click on his name, view all his posts, and search for "trip". It also requires no thought. Reading and analyzing a game takes work, seeing activity doesn't.

I really think we should use all the time available to us in order to catch scum today.

If you were

really

worried about that, you'd have unvoted. Unless you think I'm scum and both the other scum are already on my wagon.

More likely you don't really care. And there's only one reason for that.

VOTE: Nobody Special

L-2.

[saulres]

Huh what?

I just explained that the way you placed the vote cemented my read on you regardless of his alignment.

Yes I moved my vote. There's not just one scum in this game.

pedit: "different reasoning": mea culpa. My note on you from the readthrough is "54-55: Town". When I first went back to explain it I had to recreate my thinking. Today I was clearer and expounded on it.

[saulres]

I don't think it's in town's best interest for me to discuss that any further until after NS posts again.

[saulres]

@ Saulres, did you find my 39 suspicious? If so, why are you voting the person I voted in that post? (Unless you think I am bussing Shmugen that early in the game).

I found it suspicious enough on my read-through that if I were following real-time I would have asked you about it. But I didn't read it real-time, and I have other notes on you that made me not as worried about that for now.

you're saying that not waffling on a RVS-born Townread by post 39 is scummy?

Where did I say that?

That's how you treat it when you call F-16_Fighting_Falcon's behavior "suspicious".

Seriously? You're saying that someone who, during their third post of the game, offers up a possibility that someone else, who they consider a a

mild

town-tell (emphasis mine),

might

be scum, would be "waffling"?

I'm getting flashbacks to Arkham Horror Mafia. But I'm not going to apologize if I'm mislynched this game, I'm being voted for the stupidest of reasons. We don't have many days left before deadline, someone unvote me before one of the lurkers comes in here, quickhammers, and you're all in WIFOM-land LyLo tomorrow.

[saulres]

I don't think I would describe my post 39 as "not waffling on an RVS based townread."

Just to be clear (in case my wording threw you off): I didn't call it "not waffling on an RVS based townread".

Tierce

did. My post was to explain how ludicrous that was.

pedit: As I said earlier, I'm not going to discuss my vote on NS until he comes in here and posts.

[saulres]

I will look at the game with fresh eyes on Wednesday and catch the scum.

Which Wednesday were you referring to?

[saulres]

@Mod

: Could we please get prods on Konowa, Xalxe, and NS,

all

of who (whom?) are posting elsewhere on site but avoiding this game for over two days?

[saulres]

@ Saulres, can explain your vote now?

Yes I can. Aside from the fact that it's most likely on scum, I was hoping that putting some pressure on him (I took him to L-2) would cause him to actually start posting again, and respond to my attack on him. I didn't want to say that earlier because pressure doesn't work when you say it's pressure.

But apparently even being put at L-1 doesn't change his behavior. He came in, much like Konowa, only after I asked the mod to prod them. His contribution was to indicate he

isn

't reading the thread ("I'm voting saulres because I agree with your post a long time ago", implying that he has no further opinions on me to either solidify or weaken that stance) and that he

is

reading the thread ("I'm concerned about your multi-shifting view in regard to Saulres."),

in the same post

. When called out again he says "I never said I still agreed with it." and only

then

unvotes. It's like he's trying to convince me he's not scum by trying to simulate the reasoning I gave for my townread of Shamrock.

And he

still

hasn't addressed why he didn't unvote me before the wagon on me fell apart, when he claimed he wanted the day to last. His scumminess is palpable, and if he's not scum, he's probably the least desirable of the three lurkers to have during LyLo (Xalxe should be replaced imo and Konowa's "foreboding" should be interesting to hear).

[saulres]

there are the very likely odds of:
...
2) being redirected by scum.

Why do you see a scum redirector as a "very likely" role for this setup?

I wouldn't put it past Vi to modkill all the scum if a converted scum outs their partners, leading to a town auto-win.

So what should a scum converted to town do, stop playing? Do you expect them to vote for town, against their new wincon? No, I'm thinking

if

your role is real then the theory that the scum don't know each other makes sense. Kind of rules out the "informed minority" part of the game, though, doesn't it?

1. Rarefaction. There is a mechanic that will apply to certain

people

.

Interesting to me that there's been no counter-claim

or

support for his claim, given the use of the plural.

And 'Rarefied' Townie, in addition, doesn't really seem like the wording Vi would use. I'd see "Rarefier" as much more likely.

Agree with that. The use of that term seems to indicate the ability has been used

on

him, and not one

he

could choose to use.

@NS

1. Why did you wait until now to claim, instead of when you were first at L-1?

2. Can you

please

address the issue I brought up in 208? Here, I'll bring the part I'm referring to down for easy reference.

I really think we should use all the time available to us in order to catch scum today.

If you were

really

worried about that, you'd have unvoted. Unless you think I'm scum and both the other scum are already on my wagon.

[saulres]

I don't always unvote when wanting to prolong the day; it largely depends on the playerlist and whether I think someone might be an ass and quickhammer. It's different for every situation.

And in this situation, you think that scum wouldn't quickhammer because why?

I doubt the claim is accurate as presented. In thinking about it more, a 6:3 setup is already scum-sided. If it's a real ability and he's town, then if he randomly used it at the start of the game without announcing it (thereby not giving scum a chance to redirect or all the other things Tierce is worried about) there'd be a 5-in-8 chance of him ending the game right there. No way would Vi allow that to happen.

[saulres]

Tierce, who is in possession of the Puppy

How many times did I ask if I could adopt it? HOW MANY TIMES?

This is awesome, a 3-person game. Never expected that.

*shakes fist at Vi for putting me in a cell with the guy who flaked on the game*

I have role information that -something- is going to happen at the end of Day 1.

This needs to come out now. The only ones I can think of who would have that knowledge are scum.

And if they knew, then NS's lack of care about me or him getting hammered seems to point to him; scum wouldn't care who got hammered. AND, it pretty much solidifies his claim as a false one, because he was trying to define Rarefaction in it, and now we know what it means.

So I'm calling Konowa-NS the scumteam in the other cells. Whee! It's like following along in a game I'm not playing

F-16, I know I was pounding on Xalxe, but now that we're in LyLo it's time for me to do a complete review of you two -- meaning, really, you, because Xalxe contributed nada. I'm still leaning Xalxe as scum, but because it's LyLo for us, I'll be looking through your ISO and asking you a bunch of questions. I expect the same from you, except I've kind of already been put through the ringer. But whatevs.

I'll do what I can to help the other cells too. I had an interesting note on konowa which I think is worth bringing up now that there's a 50% chance he's scum -- in RVS, I felt that his jump onto the Xalxe wagon felt a little forced, and I'm curious why he chose Xalxe instead of Tierce -- both had two votes on them, so why could he "get behind" the Xalxe wagon but not the Tierce one?

[saulres]

@F-16: Well this is bizarre. In my catch-up notes for you, I have the following two lines:

82-83: Look at if becomes pertinent
87: Also look at if...

I'll have to figure out why I thought that.

I also have:

139: WTF?

Now it's clear that was a joke. But when it might not have been, I had this:

-> 150: Really wish you hadn't unvoted. The triple-vote thing works well with the lynch thresshold on the mod

But my math was off by one

pedit: Since we're all essentially in LyLo, I can't see a reason for

not

massclaiming.

[saulres]

Oh I remember why I marked those. I was going to look into those posts for associative tells. Not really pertinent now.

So I have to start from scratch. Maybe we should wait for the director to catch up though?

pedit: ...

[vote: NS]

Come on, NS. "Rarefied Townie"? "Rarefaction" from faction changing?

Makes. No. Sense.

[saulres]

I have no problem at this point claiming VT.

I wish I could give you something more. When I got the role PM with the "congrats if you wanted it" I thought "I don't! Damn it."

Shamrock, that's a scummy comment in 311. If I were scum and claimed hoping to be flipped, that would be playing against my wincon. Why are you encouraging me to be modkilled?

[saulres]

I think it is. At the time you choose to flip, you're working against your side winning.

[saulres]

Once per game

, I can choose a player and change their faction

See this right here?

If anyone can tell me how changing someone's faction

before

we were rarified, thereby invalidating the

entire setup

(you can't go 3x3 with one scum in each cell if there are 4 scum), would be an actual role in this game, I'll change my avatar to anything they want for the duration of the game (as long as it doesn't violate site rules or is otherwise illegal/immoral).

[saulres]

If Avatar bets are frowned upon I'll retract. I didn't know.

Cult of Xalxe means I've played in a Xalxe game and enjoyed it.

Tierce's sig is I think the result of a bet or a favor, but my memory doesn't work that well any more

[vote: NS] is a pseudovote because I can't vote for him.

[saulres]

saulres, how did you come to that conclusion in 299?

Setup speculation.

I'm vanilla outside of the information.

That's not good enough. My VT Role PM has

no

additional information than in the sample on page 1. Fullclaim, please.

---

Man the director is trying to suck up to me, isn't he? I'm surprised, I would think scum would try to push for the guy who was at L-1 for a lot of the game.

I'll wait for meta from Tierce, but the director isn't doing anything to convince me he's town, and the odds of anyone other than him being this cell's lynch are minimal. I suggest we go first, then, in the off-chance that if F-16 is the scum we wouldn't his opinions impacting the rest of the game.

Having said that, it's hard for me to imagine anyone other than NS getting lynched in the middle cell. He keeps avoiding uncomfortable issues.

@NS

, no response to me calling our your claim based on you providing a definition of Rarefaction that doesn't jive with what we now know it to be?

Maybe the way to do this is for each of us to post our lynch choices for each cell? If a clear consensus arises we could start with the most confident one?

[saulres]

saul, your setup speculation is broken.

Possibly. Only game end will tell.

Or do you disagree with my assessment that scum knowing would have too much mod interference?

I do. You still haven't told us what your foreshadowing knowledge contained, and until you tell me my mind's going to conduct its own wild speculation. I do that.

Oh and BTW, I never said they knew that the game would be split into three cells. I said "The only ones I can think of who would have [knowledge that something is going to happen at the end of day 1] are scum." You indicated you had some information, but you

still

haven't shared that information, just a role name. I'm still waiting.

Speaking of you being a VT with a role name...

@Everybody

: Does anybody else claiming VT have a role name?

[saulres]

But he's claiming vanilla. Maybe vanilla goon?

What's "Vi-spec"? (Sorry, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing.)

[saulres]

Oh okay.

Do you care that he should specify exactly

what

information he has? Because he's not doing that. Or have I missed it?

[saulres]

Shoot.

It's because I remember him saying he knew "something", and when I was ISOing Xalxe/the director I saw Xalxe say "If it helps town, share" so I thought he hadn't provided all the information. In rereading his initial claim, I see he said (in the second post, not the first) that that's all he had.

So that's a dead end.

[saulres]

I have to think what this means for NS's role. This changes a lot of stuff.

Have you given any thought to this, and come up with a conclusion?

[saulres]

So does your preferred order to do the lynches match with mine?

First NS. If he flips scum, then the director. If he flips town, then it's to your cell.
IF NS flips town, more work for me, F-16, and the director, then your cell if we're still going?

[saulres]

Oh right. I was thinking mine because from my POV it's a 50-50 (if random). But NS first is the key. If we can all agree on that, then that cell's flip would open up associative tells.

[saulres]

There were over 24 hours between your 348 and 376. And you haven't offered any analysis of other cells since you replaced in. So your asking for prods sounds really hypocritical.

Tierce, what were the results of your meta research?

NS, if by some chance you really

are

town and really

do

have that role -- target the director please, if F-16 and Tierce agree. He's going to be the lynch for this cell so it won't result in any change in overall town winstate. And you'd actually prove your role if you did it. (Not your alignment, but your role. Then we can all argue over if that role would be given to town or to scum.)

[saulres]

Tierce:

Tierce, what were the results of your meta research?

Also, one thing I remembered that I believe might be pertinent now that NS has flipped -- although it feels like NS made up his fakeclaim on the spot, if the scum did create that in pre-game, then Xalxe's defense of calling this a bastard game after I challenged NS's treatment of the game as such becomes rather suspicious; scum would have wanted to push this as a bastard game to support a fakeclaim of alignment changes.

[saulres]

I don't think scum are going to be making big cases on their buddies in this game (mechanics and such).

What did you mean here when you said "mechanics and such"?

[saulres]

Well at least one scum did. You and Empire are both on NS's first lynch.

Empire came in on 25, with sheeping Tierce as the reason. That was page 2. Would scum park their RVS vote on a buddy in this setup and let it ride through to lynch?

You came in on 165, right after saying "I think given wincon and possible PR play, bussing would be an incredibly ballsy move."

I'm still seeing you as scum in that cell. But I'll keep looking.

[saulres]

Stupid "bastardly" not showing up when I searched the thread for "bastard".

@Empire

: Why did you leave your RVS vote on NS all the way through lynch?

[saulres]

As far as the second cell goes, I second wanting to see the results of the director's meta research.

Actually, I'd like to see your call on who in our cell is scum

before

Tierce gives her meta results.

[saulres]

I'm torn on it too. It's a really weird and potentially gamebreaking claim if true but it makes sense in light of his comments in the early game about this game being bastardly.

This is scum, saulres.

If that's scum, then isn't the post immediately preceding it, by F-16, which also expresses conflict over NS's claim, a scum post?

[saulres]

Yeah that 250 was long long long so I didn't read it. I will if it comes down to your cell and I can still talk but please forgive me for not catching your rationale in there.

The reason I want a read on the Xalxe/the director slot from you is because you're the only non-alignment-confirmed player who hasn't given their read on our cell. If our cell mislynches, I think it will be very valuable for Tierce and the cell 2 townies to be able to draw conclusions based on associative tells. So unless any of the confirmed townies disagree, please give your pick for the scum in our cell.

[saulres]

I will if it comes down to your cell and I can still talk

EBWOP: By this I mean of course if the conftownies decide that your cell goes before ours.

[saulres]

We're doing this without waiting for Empire to give his read?

Well hopefully it won't be needed.

VOTE: the director

[saulres]

Sorry I wasn't around for the ending (RL is a bitch), but yay!

I

loved

the concept, Vi! I like LyLo and to be put in starting day 2, without the game actually being on the line, was great. I think if the director had put in some effort, Xalxe's flaking wouldn't have hurt the team (although clearly I was onto

something

when I was pushing him); it was really the director's play that I think cemented it. I don't know why he was pushing F-16 as the scum instead of me.

Maybe to make it work as an Open, add a townie and let the first lynch actually go through, with the caveat that if town is lynched, town wincon is 2 of 3, if scum is lynched town wincon changes to 3 of 3?

This note from my personal QT, would like to hear anyone's thoughts on it.

Holy crap. I ask for unvotes, and in the next two posts I go from L-1, which I've been at for days, to L-3. What the hell did I do right?

I think if I wound up in the cell with Tierce and Empire the outcome might have been different, seeing as how I got to L-1...

More thoughts when I have time.

[saulres]

Why did you try painting F-16 as the scum in our cell when I was the one who was run up to L-1?

[saulres]

Did the scum make use of their QT? If so, could we see it?

[saulres]

Tierce -- two in a row, you read me as scum when I wasn't. And I somewhat read you as scum and you weren't.

Scum's going to have a field day with us if we both draw town in another game