Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[Herself]

Well, [Ongoing] is apparently the only way I can answer that. But I don't think I'm a fan.

As for shorter, I prefer to be called 'Nutsy McSexytail' but people also seem to manage SG. Really, as long as I can tell you mean me then I'm fine with whatever.

Don't be so dramatic--mollie is a lot nicer when we play together.

Vote: havingfitz

- Des

[Herself]

Herself, you made a post talking to Nutsy McSexytail but planted a vote on fitz. Do not like.

Vote Herself

.

What don't you like about it?

And what's with all the p1 fearmongering?

- Des

[Herself]

You discussed one person then voted for someone else whom you've said nothing about.

And what's with all the p1 fearmongering?

Because of an ongoing game, actually. Day talk makes me jumpy now.

Yes I did. Did I say SG was scummy? Nope.

So why don't you like that I talked to someone and then voted someone else?

- Des

[Herself]

No one cares what the wiki says, Garmr.

SG's #54 is precisely why sheeping is not scummy. What you need to realize is that everything is null--what matters is the context and the intent of each individual action. So blanket statements like "She says she will sheep later in the game and sheeping is scummy!" really just don't fly.

Why do you think scum-SG who planned on lying low and sheeping would telegraph that on page two? Don't you think they would just...do it?

- Des

[Herself]

Nobody cares about you hmpph. Well that aside I used the wiki because sheeping. Of course I know sheeping is null by itself. But circumstances change the time when you can sheep. Like for example when you need to lynch someone in a hurry because there's a hour left in the day. It when people plan do it continuously that worries me.

Lets flip the chessboard. What town motivation does she have to say that. She obviously doesn't have a town read on street hassle when she offered because after the next post she votes them. This is where the confusions at this is what I want to know.

Also what's up with this white knighting on Nutsy McSexytail first Orestes now Herself. Nutsy McSexytail is perfectly capable of talking for herself.

Why are you facepalming me when TSO had figured the game out and you fucked it up? You actually believed two scum would ever act like that and it was embarassing.

The town motivation for SG is that she is presenting herself as a malleable town player that will help the more forceful personalities that she believes to be town to achieve lynches. Someone has to fill that role and she is telling us up front that she is willing to do so.

I think you have us confused with someone else because we haven't mentioned Orestes at all.

- Des

[Herself]

hi guys whats going on

[Herself]

Well, [Ongoing] is apparently the only way I can answer that. But I don't think I'm a fan.

As for shorter, I prefer to be called 'Nutsy McSexytail' but people also seem to manage SG. Really, as long as I can tell you mean me then I'm fine with whatever.

thats okay I am not a fan of you either!

re: providing townreads

I will do it when I feel like it, I think it helps town more than the fear that scum will have their shit together enough to counter it. most of what I have seen talked about in daychat seems to be about favourite movies or what they are doing during the day. the biggest benefit I see it providing is a connectivity to other players in the game to counteract the isolation of playing scum. altho it does give them a medium to plan a way to vote consecutively in a mylo situ and thus pull out a win right from underneath town's faltering feet, lets hope it does not come to that!

desp and I work opposite schedules on the weekends, so we will probably sync up tomorrow.

that nut creature is probably town mebbe yaye I can ignore her. icey guy feels town to me, he looks like he is trying to orient himself in the game mebbe and work things out more dancing required.

most of what has been going on is pretty boring

[Herself]

surprisingly a little bit

[Herself]

off the top of my head I am not I even remember what your reads were other than nut creature and icey guy. orestes walls so tl;dr will get the gist from desp until I am less tired and do a read through. fitz is underwhelming (will have to look back to see who said that this is par for the course for him cos that was dead on) what stood out with him to me was him asking sakura if she had a preference for a nickname or w/e and then she provides this long name that is as lengthy as her original username and then doesn't comment on it.

anyways will be interesting when he gets back considering our last game.

was banksys the 1 who said that they thought you saying "hey mollie I found town" was weird? reminds me a bit of rach in xeno who didn't understand our interactions but she was scum and decided to make a thing of it but then so did andy and he was town. is there another reason for their wagon?

also empire promised a snazzy night on the town and he shows up in a bathrobe, bedroom slippers and 3 day old beard? pffttt...

[Herself]

You got an acorn of alternate viewpoints there?

Yup.

I asked him the question I did in my #62 because I found that quoted line of his suspicious - it felt like he was preemptively defending himself from an accusation that might have been made against him but wasn't (e.g., the accusation that he's following a player he has no read on). I liked his response that he was just posting what was on his mind without really thinking of the consequences, shows a lack of a filter that scum usually have in place because they tend to care a lot more about the potential backlash a post can receive.

I didn't see Orestes's "fair enough" comment as an acceptance of the argument but rather more of a "I see how you got to that conclusion"-type of reaction and his explanation of why he chose to put down another vote on the Banksys wagon makes sense to me (wanting to concentrate votes onto one wagon).

I disagree completely that his post was a whole lot of nothing and I actually liked his comment that he has no problem going against a wagon on you, shows that he actually cares about his opinions even if they differ from the norm. The post was a little bit heavy on the defense and a less so on the proactive scumhunting end but I think that's an extension of the fact that he was drawing suspicion. Interested in seeing where he goes from here.

Empire this townread sucks. Can you please start doing better so that we can focus on the real threats and not get distracted by getting weird on you two? Ffery looks town and you're ruining it.

- Des

[Herself]

Can't get a read on Street Hassle yet, if it were later in the day I might have to think more about following him votewise...but it's page 2 and it might be because I haven't played with a hydra before, at least not knowingly.

Why do you feel the need to justify the early game nature of your vote?

From what I remember this wasn't me trying to justify it, I just wasn't editing my thoughts because it was late and I was drunk.
I was trying to say that if I'd solidified more of a scum read on SH, if I still wanted to vote for Flareon on a wagon that I agreed with I'd be a little more careful about it than I was - as I assume anyone would be if one of their scum reads was on a wagon for another of their scum reads. Likewise if it were later in the day.
Probably didn't need to post it,

but like I said I wasn't editing.

You said you liked this response because it showed that he didn't have a filter, which trends town for you--the problem is that he was actually telling, not showing. He also mentions again that he was drunk before. He's giving excuses and he's overemphasizing how not-worried he is about it. That's not town.

orestes isnt scummy for bandwagoning early game hes scummy for identifying 2 ok scum suspects but voting a different person from both of them

Yeah okay fair enough. However, I did still dig the Flareon wagon (will go into more next post), and while I didn't like TvK (re Garmr I was more pushing at him than declaring an actual scum read), he had no votes on him at the time and it's early game; none of my reads were at all strong enough for me to want to push a wagon of my own. I think 10 different wagons during the early game is more detrimental than helpful, so I added myself to a wagon that I liked.

I didn't see Orestes's "fair enough" comment as an acceptance of the argument but rather more of a "I see how you got to that conclusion"-type of reaction and his explanation of why he chose to put down another vote on the Banksys wagon makes sense to me (wanting to concentrate votes onto one wagon).

I disagree completely that his post was a whole lot of nothing and I actually liked his comment that he has no problem going against a wagon on you, shows that he actually cares about his opinions even if they differ from the norm. The post was a little bit heavy on the defense and a less so on the proactive scumhunting end but I think that's an extension of the fact that he was drawing suspicion. Interested in seeing where he goes from here.

What is the difference between "okay fair enough" and "I can see how you got to that conclusion? Like, for you to even make that distinction and then pretend that it's a towntell is crazy. And your final paragraph is even worse--you "completely disagree" that his post was a whole lot of nothing, and then acknowledge that it was entirely self-defense and devoid of any scumhunting. Of course it's an extension of the fact that he's drawing suspicion--but now that he's awake and sober why is he choosing to spend his time defending himself from light suspicion in favor of looking for scum? His scumread hadn't posted since he voted him and he's arrived at no other reads.

Come on man. Why are you townreading him, really?

- Des

[Herself]

I am confident this is the slot to place your vote on.

mebbe not

shiny things

[Herself]

has any1 answered for the other reasons as to why there is a bw on bankerys like empire did you answer this already

[Herself]

so you have played with bankerys before?

[Herself]

[quote]Street Hassle (1) havingfitz
Kid A (0)
TvK (0)
My Milked Eek (0)
T S O (0)
Banksys Flareon (3) ICEninja, Street Hassle, Orestes
ICEninja (1) Squirrel Girl
Garmr (1) Banksys Flareon
Squirrel Girl (Nutsy...) (0)
Orestes (3) TvK, Kid A, Garmr
Quadraxis (0)
Herself (0)
havingfitz (1) Herself

Not Voting (3) - My Milked Eek, T S O, Quadraxis[/uote]

I keep looking at this list and I swear I can't remember a single thing about most of these posters.

[Herself]

Street Hassle (1) havingfitz
Kid A (0)
TvK (0)
My Milked Eek (0)
T S O (0)
Banksys Flareon (3) ICEninja, Street Hassle, Orestes
ICEninja (1) Squirrel Girl
Garmr (1) Banksys Flareon
Squirrel Girl (Nutsy...) (0)
Orestes (3) TvK, Kid A, Garmr
Quadraxis (0)
Herself (0)
havingfitz (1) Herself

Not Voting (3) - My Milked Eek, T S O, Quadraxis

I keep looking at this list and I swear I can't remember a single thing about most of these posters.

[Herself]

so you have played with bankerys before?

I haven't but I've read all three of her games (though I still need to talk to ffery about them, haven't had the time yet). I'd rather talk about the meta stuff later if you don't mind.

okay we can wait to talk about meta stuff, lets talk about you

when did you read her meta stuff?

[Herself]

all 3 games in that short of time?

huh

[Herself]

all 3 games in that short of time?

huh

What are you trying to accomplish with this line of inquiry?

I am trying to point out that your case for reading her as scum sounds about as fabricated and forced as your town read on orestes.

[Herself]

Alright well people are asking why there is a wagon on Banksys. How about you try

actually reading my posts

, yeah? I'm sorry if it takes SO much effort to look at the vote count to see who is voting them, then SO much effort to look at my 7 posts and find which one I vote him in. But try.

That being said I'll admit it isn't exactly an overwhelming case. Just something he posted that bugged me.

This discussion around Orestes is bugging me more, though. Street has a town read (which I think is kind of meh, Orestes isn't scummy but I didn't find his posts that great either) and Herself is attempting to discredit the town read without actually scum hunting Orestes.

Why do you feel the need to discredit a town read while simultaneously not address or scum hunt the player in question? Furthermore, you do this without even holding a legitimate vote. Do you find Orestes

scummy

? If so, why is your vote still random? If you DON'T find him scummy then why are you attacking someone for town reading a non-scummy player?

Banksys I'm expecting a response from you when you get back in here...but for now:

Unvote Banksys Flareon, vote Herself

.

1) The fitz vote was never random.
2) Orestes promised more content already--I don't think he needs another voice hounding him to provide it. Once he does I'll start evaluating that.
3) The content he has provided has been null and Empire's townread on him is fucking retarded.
4) I'm attacking Empire for townreading a null read because the weight he is applying to the read does not match Orestes' content. It is clinically insane to have read Orestes' wall and call it "pretty town"

- Des

[Herself]

@ Street: I want to work with Kid A, Garmr, SG, and Ice today. Do any of them miss the cut for you two?

@ SG: Do you agree that there are situations where it benefits town to not talk about things? If so, can we table Street and look elsewhere?

- Des

[Herself]

Voting a hydra for wanting time to discuss things with the other head.

Hrm. Well there goes that town read.

That's not why SG is voting her. Given the trajectory of the whole conversation (and not just her vote post) she is more concerned with Ffery's lack of transparency than her ability to synch with Empire.

- Des

[Herself]

I think you misunderstood? You are the people I want to work with to lynch scum, not the people I think are scum.

I like the reaction either way. Who is scum besides Orestes?

- Des

[Herself]

Fitz' first two posts were both vote worthy. Why is it laughable, because I didn't explain why it was scummy at the time? Because that's pretty silly in itself.

It might make Street scum, yeah. I don't seem to have a particularly strong scum read on the slot because I...don't. I think his other head is town and that he's not helping her reinforce that read.

I'm speaking for SG because your comment was a) factually incorrect and b) extremely dismissive. I think you and SG are both town and I am trying to nip it in the bud now so we can focus on catching scum together. You in?

- Des

[Herself]

I think it might have gotten overshadowed by the Orestes wall that started the next page; I also think the answer is worth asking the question twice.

- Des

[Herself]

Kid A is in our null pile. You have a town read?

Yes. He's the towniest lurker by far.

Make sure Emp reads Fast and Furious also. I was wrong about Garmr and I'm not making the same mistake twice.

- Des

[Herself]

SG: I think it might be one of those situations and that we are much better off going after the 2/3 of the playerlist that hasn't really started playing yet. Empire's scum game is notoriously bad and ffery and I have been town together multiple times recently.

All I'm really asking is to put Street on the back burner for today and help me sort some other players instead.

- Des

[Herself]

Want to compare notes on what specifically was off about Fitz' first two posts?

#6 - Quoting your hydra slip and then asking "on a serious note" if there are any hydras.

#9 - The way he asked SG if our presence in the game was a problem. It felt like Fitz was inviting SG to say yes and tell us all about it, and inviting someone to drop a drama bomb is not conducive to a town victory.

- Des

[Herself]

SG: I mean like the day phase, and I'm advocating that we do advance policy lynches until we get those slots to produce content. We need to start doing that now if we hope to get to everyone before the deadline.

Street: Here's SK-Fitz in Castle:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30429

- Des

[Herself]

Yes.

[Herself]

Well, two of them are still on v/la and I sort of think I got TSO to show up by asking the mod to poke at him. So, who exactly do you want to advance a lurking policy lynch on?

Did you consider checking the vote count? Or the link I just provided?

It's Fitz. I want you to vote Fitz with me.

- Des

[Herself]

Looks like it's over to me.

- Des

[Herself]

It's Tuesday. His V/LA is over on Tuesday.

Why aren't you willing to vote him right now?

- Des

[Herself]

Yes, because earlier in the game you were literally selling yourself as a malleable town vote, and I thought we had agreed to work together, and now the time has come to help me pressure fitz (by coming back from RVS to a wagon) and you are balking.

So how about you just start doing other stuff then? Maybe our paths will cross again later.

- Des

[Herself]

I am and was doing other stuff, this conversation started because you wanted me to stop doing that stuff and come and do your stuff.

...that ending phrase is terrible, but it conveys the point.

Yeah but your other stuff is sorting Street, which I think I've made clear is not a good use of our time today.

- Des

[Herself]

If we are dead tomorrow you have full permission to push Street to the ends of the earth.

- Des

[Herself]

I can be okay with that milk thing lynched

[Herself]

SG is town. It's literally all over our ISO, shouldn't be too difficult for you to figure out why.

So Fitz:

- Sheeps all my townreads
- Agrees with me that scum are likely among the minimal-post group
- Thinks I'm scum because...?

He says he "was leaning towards us anyway but feel free to include a dash of OMGUS" but I think it's the whole fucking shaker's worth.

Why am I scum for overanalyzing your first two posts but you have nothing to say about Street's analysis of the same posts? Especially when they were the ones who asked me to provide the analysis in the first place?

- Des

[Herself]

And I linked the game to Castle mafia so they could look at another one of your scum openings--the similarities between your opening posts in both games are disturbing.

- Des

[Herself]

Herself, hypothetical question: Fitz gets shot by a day vig right now. Where does your vote go?

Milked Eek.

I haven't synched with mollie but I think I got the same form of the willies from his prod dodge that she did.

- Des

[Herself]

Yeah she loves that one. My main issues are: he definitely was lurking because he didn't announce v/la, and if the conference started last Friday and goes through this Friday, and he might not be able to post by the Saturday afterward (which could easily turn into Sunday, or even Monday) then we are talking about 75-80% of the day phase where Milked has 0 presence. That's a problem

Fitz said the same thing. "I'm not going to be able to post much content because the majority of my access is via phone" is crazy scummy.

- Des

[Herself]

I'm actually about to start advocating a lynch all delayed read offerers policy.

That's good. The scum really are starting to feel the pressure of getting boxed out, and the longer they put it off the harder it's going to be to pretend to be town.

- Des

[Herself]

I'll check those games out momentarily

The end result is that ffery and I are both stuck lamenting that we don't have two votes

It's a good thing actually. Check the vote count and where everyone is, I think you'll understand why.

- Des

[Herself]

Initial impression of Fitztown makes his defense seem scummy as shit. Compare his reaction to my accusation here and his reaction to Thor's push in 479 and when Jake called him a liar in 1480. Based on those games, when he gets FOSed he is very direct with his rebuttles--he knows the accusation is bullshit and he's gonna tell you why goddamnit...whereas here his posture is meek, he's wordy, he's overexplaining himself. Look:

#6...as I was not aware Street was a fferly+Empire hydra..seeing a quote of a post (that did not exist) by a player not even in the game was confusing...as I pointed out. And as we were on the subject of hydras and I only recognized 2-3 players...the "Are there any hydras" was a legitimate question that iirc I ask on occasion. So post 1 over analysis on me seems ridiculous and malicious.

#9...I was curious as to the reason for SG's facepalm at the fact there was a mollie/desperado hydra. Anything brought up in this game is subject to discussion so my curiousity as to SG's reaction was genuine. It was not to undermine anyone. As has not subsequently been the result of the question....except back on me. Ridiculous again.

@Thor...what pressure are you basing your vote on me on? The pressure prior to your vote (which did not exist?) or the pressure you hoped to gain from placing your vote? And the scumtell was my opening post of day 3 I assume? If so...for shame. That's weak shit. Not sure if it's worked for you before but its off the mark here.

@DCL...regarding my comment about having suspicions towards Hiraki...wtf are you talking about? I do not build a case on Hiraki (because he was one of my lesser suspects) but I more certainly indicate I am suspicious of him

Questioning him here 234, getting an opinion of Hiraki from who I thought was scum here 301, and outright stating it here 316.

And there's my tell described by Thor. Um...no where did I say scum's kill was confusing (though it is) and no where did I say I didn't have reads. If anything...saying hiraki was one of my suspects, but not my top suspect mind you, infers that I have others besides him (ie reads). And yes...Rach is ~slightly buddying you.

You can shove my outright lie up your posterior Oh wait, you’re safe…there was no outright lie. I thought I would be more active while on v/LA and it didn’t happen. I suspected Baezu so I voted him. I missed his mention of claiming…as did everyone else apparently before he died…including you. Otherwise I might have gone for smargaret. But if she is telling the truth that’s just as well I didn’t vote her either. And once the lynch occurred…3 RL days break for night and a couple of RL days missed to start D2 didn’t affect jack. I don’t have and never have had an issue playing with you and as far as I can recall from our last game….which you replaced into despite my presence btw…there were no problems. I'm off v/LA so try to get over it.

As for this game…as I believe I have already indicated…I still suspect Saki but would be willing to look over other non-PR claimed options. Even though I do not believe all of the claims.

p.edit to 517 Why shouldn't I be offended at being called an outright liar along with your other behavior/comments towards me since I joined? Silly me. My suspicions of Saki have merit in my opinion.

[Herself]

ok yeah we're lynching fitz today

- Des

[Herself]

And I linked the game to Castle mafia so they could look at another one of your scum openings--the similarities between your opening posts in both games are disturbing.

This might interest you. Here are some of this dude's games (ffery and I are talking about this right now):

TOWN: Open 479, Mini 1480
SCUM: Mini 1407 (need to find a second scum game as I'm not sure that him-as-SK in Castle qualifies)

The main difference I see is that he's a lot more focused in catch-up and there's a lot less of a whirlwind, feel-the-need-to-comment-on-everything approach when he's town (basically, there's a lot more IIoA when he's scum). ffery described it as his catch-ups are more digestible when he's town as there's more of what he thinks and less empty questioning. I'm getting the vibe that his wall was a lot more like his scumwalls in the past.

My other main issue with him is the apparent lack of deviation from the norm. Putting aside that there's a lot of discussion in that post that's already been tread on, his reads tend to match the consensus almost exactly.

The end result is that ffery and I are both stuck lamenting that we don't have two votes

well fitz was scum in this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29543

[Herself]

Maybe I have a more positive read on him simply because his own reads line up so tight with mine, and I feel like his Herself vote was completely justified (and not just by OMGUS but, but by Herself trying to make a case out of page 1 posts where one of which was a perfectly fine post and the other was just run-of-the-mill page 1 filler).

what if I told you that fitz's vote on me is the safest vote he can possibly make since he has voted me

in nearly every single game

we have ever been in so there is zero accountability there? the only reason he did vote me in 2 rooms was cos he was lynched before he realised majiffy and I were a hydra.

if we were dayvigged right now and you finally had to face the fact that you have been tunneling on town for shoddy reasons who would you go after next?

@ empire

what is with the cold shoulder. I have been good. I have been patient. I was so looking forward to playing with you and so far it has been lackluster. what is your read on us? have you given 1 yet?

[Herself]

@ empire

what is with the cold shoulder. I have been good. I have been patient. I was so looking forward to playing with you and so far it has been lackluster. what is your read on us? have you given 1 yet?

...really? Consider that your other head acted like a colossal douchebag towards me yesterday and then

maybe

you can understand why I've been giving your slot the cold shoulder.

And about my read on you guys: seriously, I'm tired of answering questions whose answers should be evident from my posts.

we are 2 different heads. take a page out of sakura's page and treat us as individuals who share a role and are working together. if it was THAT evident then I wouldn't be asking.

I am going to level with you. I am tired, I am cranky, I don't feel good and it would be nice to have some light banter and entertainment instead of the shitfests that mafia has turned into these days. do you think you could help with that? that would be nice.

[Herself]

why do you think he has backed off from you in the first place.

and i do not think I have done anything uncivil to either of you so why would I deserve incivility? I haven't even been uncivil to that squirrel creature even tho she has been baiting me since p1.

you know what. I give up. this was probably 1 the most sincere reach outs I have ever given. have fun I guess

[Herself]

It came off to me like you were blaming us for the game not being fun for you.

If I had seen Empire's post I wouldn't have posted mine. I'll take a break for a day or two and you guys can maybe work something out.

:/

I am not sure how you got that I was "blaming" you for anything out of what I said. it must have taken a lot of effort to read that into what I said.

I was hoping to banter and go over some things with empire. I thought that was who I was talking to except for the 1 post since that is who I was addressing. I was feeling blah and I figured it might smooth things over between emp and desp and lighten things up a bit. but I guess emp doesn't want to so okay.

[Herself]

I am having a hard time getting my feet into the game. when I looked at fitz's posts in 2 rooms they seemed really different than what he has posted here, completely different tone but desp is right there are a lot of similarities between this game and castle. his vote on us is predictable I even told desp before the game started that is what he was going to do.

I do not like that milked thing, what say you?

also I heard radioactive on the radio today and I though to of you cos I know that is your favourite song

[Herself]

well fitz was scum in this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29543

Oh, just remembered this.

I see what you're getting at but I think the difference in the catchups might be due to the sheer length of the game (he mentions having to change it up due to it being 40 pages when he jumped in). Need to double check the other games, but in the ones I posted he was either a starting player or had replaced in early.

P-edit: I don't really notice any major tone difference though and he didn't really have a chance to react to his wagon as far as I can see. I don't think you can really use the Castle game as relevant meta given that he was an SK and thus was not really part of the informed minority (e.g., he could have been genuinely scumhunting). Have you had a chance to look at the games I posted? I know you don't really like to go too deep into games you haven't been in personally but worth a shot?

I don't really have much of an opinion on Milked Eek other than I found his preemptive defense suspicious in that it sorta feels like

he's been here this whole time but not really saying anything

. I *think* ffery was on the same wavelength as you but we didn't really go over him much, just kinda waiting for more content (doesn't this whole game feel this way at this point?).

Also goddamn it fuck that song it's so fucking bad why do you have to remind me of it? ;_;

I promise to look at those games tomorrow. to me the biggest thing is that his vote felt perfunctory.

wrt: bingo, I thought the same thing but his post doesn't give any indication of this and yet it still reads that way.

and yes, the game feels stagnant that is why this game feels really really off to me. it shouldn't be happening this early.

I think what I do not like is how much time is being eaten up with v/la's and lack of posting. of course people are going to sit around and get paranoid of 1 another but it seems implausible that the whole scum team is lurking it out.

*sniff* radioactive is a really good song (kidding)

whoops

[Herself]

1

Garmr is looking fairly town, I got embarrassed town vibes from post 63. Fitz giving no content seems like a frustratingly common trend with this guy. Street Hassle dropped a (pretty big, in my eyes) town tell that I don't want to discuss.

The number of town looking players here suggests that there's at least 1 scum in the "hasn't posted yet" camp. I might have to do some lurker hunting this game.

I'm having a hard time seeing the Garmr love. I'm not scum reading him, per se, but I feel like people are letting him off easy.

But ice you were the one who started the garmr love why do you deny me and my loving embrace. On a serious note what do you think they are letting me off easy with?

2.The herself vs street thing looked a little personal glad they sorted it out don't want to dwelve to deep into it.

3. Fitz. Don't see him as town but the initial reason about his reaction to hydras wasn't something I could put my vote on. But the post by herself post 201 does make fitz suspect i would like to see his response. because at the moment his a good day 1 candidate for a lynch

4.

Gone nuts for squirrel girl don't like the pressure herself has put on SG side note for latter.

finally where to place my vote at the moment I'm pretty flexible between the fitz and orts wagon.

wrt the bold: wat pressure we have nut thing as town.

[Herself]

Can you make that a joint committee between Street Hassle and us? I have a significant history with TSO.

- Des

[Herself]

It hurts to say this, it really does you have no idea how long I tried to convince myself "Well that can be faked, they can still be scum!" or "Mollies line of attack on Street for their town read on Orestes is bad, they might be scum!!" when following the game hoping that I'd be able to lynch them but I'm pretty sure

Herself

are town.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

reggie has a town read on us and can't lynch us and is stuck with me the whoooooooooooooooole game (well as long as either of us are alive)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

game might be fun after all

[Herself]

also in case anybody missed it I have reggie as town town town towniest town whoever towned.

I have to discuss it with desp but I think he will agree.

[Herself]

What's wrong with what he just said? You just got done saying you were going to read over us again to see if you are being completely retarded or not (you are) and yet another person who has a significant history with our slot thinks we are town, so he voiced his opinion.

How is that scummier than TvK, Professional Fence Builder Esq.?

- Des

[Herself]

It isn't what he said that's scummy. It's

everything

that he didn't say.

Maybe he only had time to comment on the last thing he saw in thread and planned on catching up later?

- Des

[Herself]

It's OK if there is 1 scum in the town block, and paranoia is healthy.

What kind of vibe are you getting from Fitz and TSO?

- Des

[Herself]

squirrel thing we were leaning town on banksys too. desp meta-ed her and he didn't think she looked scummy at all and to me in this game she just looked confused.

I am going to post a list of our reads in a bit, the list earlier was mostly desp's so now that we have a chance to really talk, a more consolidated list will be up shortly.

[Herself]

okay so this is what we have:

town

reggie - he is in my don't touch don't even look at him funny or I will hurt you pile. if reggie wants me to explain the read I will but I doubt I will explain it to anybody else cos I think it would only make sense to reggie and even then I am not sure.

squirrel creature - this is par for the course of her play. she makes weird leaps and goes in directions that you never expect her to. this is a playstyle thing and usually I need nacho to read her but I really think she is town this game.

kid A - desp has him as town don't ask me why. he says he liked his posts and I was like okay.

tso - between desp and I, I think we have 10 or 12 completed games with him. we are leaning town and it has to do with his carefree rvs play.

unsure, need to sort

ice guy - he has not posted a single read that I liked and honestly his play is so derpy I am starting to wonder if it is fake. we had him as town earlier cos we agreed with street that the paranoia seemed townish but holy jesus since then his posts just seem bad bad bad.

street - we are leaving them alone for today but I do want to get some thoughts out there. I did not like his push on banksys, desp meta-ed her too and came to an entirely different conclusion. to me it felt forced, fabricated and like going after low hanging fruit. wanted to give them some space so started treating them like town but the interactions last night were weird. i am not sure how me wanting to talk to emp turned into me blaming them for the lack of enjoyment of the game. <---- weird. I danced with emp and it felt pretty natural but it was like pulling teeth to get him to do it and I am wondering why that is. on desp's part he was under the impression that we all had moved on but then emp said he was being a douche and fery said that trying to work with us (desp has been doing most of the posting) was like slogging in an uphill battle when desp thought he

was

working with fery so he is not sure where that is coming from. it could just all be a misunderstanding but it has left us both mystified and unsure.

tvk - has left no impression on me but desp is wondering if they are uncertain town slowly warming up. they provided a list so townpoints for that, it leaves a trail.

garmr - desp likes him, I need to interact with him. dancing lessons will be held.

orestes - where did he go. its like we are at a concert that was supposed to start at 11pm and it is now 1am and we are still waiting.

quadraxis or whatever - srsly who the fuck is this person.

scummy

fitz - desp has a boogey and I can see where he is coming from.

milked - hated everything about that post like seriously

everything

. he is my boogey

[Herself]

okay fitz

UNVOTE: fitzUNVOTE:

[Herself]

transposing top town read of reggie with unsure read of street

[Herself]

I have no completed games on site and also haven't died in any ongoings yet. So either you're making this up, or you're still randomly deciding who I'm an alt of and then making value calls on my play based off the play of someone you don't even know is really me! I could be a Alduskel alt or something. Either way that doesn't seem like a smart move.

alright. you *remind* me of some1 who plays like you do, but even if I let go of the meta I like your leads so far it is kind of spooky how you go where I am thinking about going like I was wanting to vote milk thing and then there you are.

I think you have done it at least twice now.

[Herself]

VOTE: milk thing

[Herself]

Squirrel, the bit you quoted was directed at Herself and not you.

:/

then why are

you

saying we should have us in our townreads

I can quote this and add in the word I left out!

[Herself]

Probably badly phrased but the "Herself" section was directing it towards you, not listing you.

Also guessing you're a Mollie hydra?

guessing you have already figured this out since you have referenced me a couple of times

yeah!

[Herself]

So...Reg...do you actually suspect anyone? I'm getting twitchier reading your posts when you seem to throw away every scum read you have.

You and Street look more like a couple at the store scrutinizing which curtains to buy for your new place than people trying to actively find scum.

This nagging feeling that my two strongest town reads are laughing at me in a day chat QT is growing. We need to lynch somebody so one of my damn town reads can die and make me feel better.

at this point it just looks like exclusionary mutual masturbation and gives the both of them a way to be present in the thread without ever having to interact with anybody. are you not worried that you will die?

[Herself]

Reg, how the fuck is Fitz telling me I can't recognize town so he isn't going to sheep me town

when all of our town reads are the same???

- Des

[Herself]

@ Street: I want to work with Kid A, Garmr, SG, and Ice today. Do any of them miss the cut for you two?

@ SG: Do you agree that there are situations where it benefits town to not talk about things? If so, can we table Street and look elsewhere?

- Des

Players I'm leaning town on atm: Garmr, SG, ICE....Kid A

^^^This dude says I can't recognize town because I'm voting for him.

His entire defense was self-centered and surface level. All he's interested in is not being voted anymore.

- Des

[Herself]

When I’m town and people make shit cases on me you can bet I will have OMGUS sentiments towards them. But that wasn’t the only reason I gave. Nice misrep. Your poor over analysis of my first two posts (ridiculous) and criticism of my standard catch up posts (null) are what have me suspecting you.

And you want to talk about misreps? Your catch up posts have never played into our case on you. You can try to quote us saying they did if you want, but you'll fail--that was Empire.

- Des

[Herself]

How the fcuk is my availability on the site…and the means with which I access the site indicative of alignment? It's the same regardless of the game. BS

I don't remember you forewarning us that you wouldn't be able to provide a lot of content because you phone post all the time in Castle. If I find similar posts in your town games I will drop the point--otherwise you preemptively explaining your lack of content will remain scummy.

- Des

[Herself]

I could care less about the town reads some people are giving Herself. Her case/push on me is complete bullocks.

Finally, considering that your conception of our case is 50% someone else's work, I don't think you are qualified to tell us that it is complete bullocks.

Fitz needs to hang, today.

- Des

[Herself]

How the fcuk is my availability on the site…and the means with which I access the site indicative of alignment? It's the same regardless of the game. BS

I don't remember you forewarning us that you wouldn't be able to provide a lot of content because you phone post all the time in Castle. If I find similar posts in your town games I will drop the point--otherwise you preemptively explaining your lack of content will remain scummy.

- Des

Reminder:

That's me caught up.  For those of you who use post counts to scum hunt I will say this.  I do 95% of my posting over the phone (so typically light on content...barring the occasional wall exchange and catch up post) and weekend posting is out of the ordinary for me.  C'est la vie.

1480:

UNVOTE:

Will catch up ASAP.

@all....starting 10 day family road trip this afternoon so mostly succinct phone posting until the18th. Should be able to catch and keep up.

Through page 2...didn't care for Phdscar's over politeness on pg 1. Liking dagnabbit atm...not so much smargaret.
Pg 3...not liking the push on dagnabbit (JFSF) or RC's Saki vote.
OK....so page 4 and saki is starting to wear on me. Seeming evasive with all the questions as answers...don't care for the role fishing accusation. FOS saki.
Through pg 6. Saki sinking. Like JFSF's post 145.
Through pg 8...not liking Baezu's posts 176 and 177 seem forced. Why no vote on TSQ?
Through 9....eyes glazing over phone...will finish catch up later.

479:

No mention of phone posting.

1407:

Reminder...

mod...I'm on vacation this week and will be v/LA until Friday morning.

I should be able to check in on phone occasionally but only for very limited phone posting. Hopefully it won't matter.

Nope, still scummy. You've made it clear that this is always the case for you, yet as town you make no excuses for your lack of content, you simply state that you often post from your phone. In 479, your most robust complete game on site by far, you don't even mention the fact that most of your content comes via phone posting at all. So if you are capable of

that

ISO, why are you going out of your way to warn us that your posts will generally lack content because they are from the phone?

^Because you are worried about your self-image. And scum.

- Des

[Herself]

Are you feeling left out?

Sorry, guess I'm used to hydra'ing with him and feel that if we can agree on 4-5 town reads it'll be /game plus I find it unlikely that we'll both live through the night so todays probably the only day where we can both work together on this.

mebbe

also I totally like this strike thing and I am stealing it!

not sure why you are convinced you'll be dead when you really aren't offering a lot in the way of scumreads and emp is the only you seem interested in working with so you don't seem to be an organising force unless you are just waiting to weave your townreads together for more cohesion in case you

do

die.

I was wondering about your vote on tvk cos you said that you thought that milk thing seemed scummy. are you finding tvk scummier than milk thing? what do you think of tvk in light of her list? I am surprised you don't want more pressure on milk thing since they are kind of doing absolutely nothing.

[Herself]

transposing top town read of reggie with unsure read of street

What does this mean?

that I am thinking about switching you guys and reggie in my reads list.

So...Reg...do you actually suspect anyone? I'm getting twitchier reading your posts when you seem to throw away every scum read you have.

You and Street look more like a couple at the store scrutinizing which curtains to buy for your new place than people trying to actively find scum.

This nagging feeling that my two strongest town reads are laughing at me in a day chat QT is growing. We need to lynch somebody so one of my damn town reads can die and make me feel better.

at this point it just looks like exclusionary mutual masturbation and gives the both of them a way to be present in the thread

without ever having to interact with anybody

. are you not worried that you will die?

The bolded isn't what's happening.

ssshhhh.....I am getting to know reggie

[Herself]

Mollie, I don't think Empire is the "only" person that I'm talking with. I just know when it comes to sorting out reads I work well with him and I think once we get a grip on a group of agreed on and consolidated town reads then everything becomes much easier. Also just because I don't really have scum reads right now doesn't mean that I won't by the end of the day (I also don't live past say N2 often at all, only have in a handful of games). My votes not on TvK at the moment (I unvoted him because the meta comparison reads town and his comment directed towards me came across as town, I explained that in Post 315 but I do want the question in Post 305 answered by him). I was planning on reading and finishing up on the Fitz meta as well as reading through his interaction with you again and getting a response from Street on whether they saw the same thing I did in his post that read as town before I decide whether to vote either Milked or Fitz (And was leaning towards Milked) but Desps Post 329 and Post 330 is actually a good point that I need to look at when I'm not so groggy eyed and it's not 6am (Probably in a few hours after I get some more sleep).

ssshhhh.....I am getting to know reggie

Are you trying to flirt with me? Sorry, Empire and I are engaged.

If you want to get to know me (I'm assuming to get a better read on me otherwise it's just weird) you're best of asking me questions, not being upset that I like scumhunting with Street.

of course I am flirting with you to get a better read and also to get to know you as a player as in what your temperament is like etc. etc. flirting is just 1 of the tools I use I have other ones to but now that scum knows all of my cunning plans whatever shall I do.

I think I did ask some questions! ty for answering them

I wasn't upset I was seeing what you would do with a little bit of antagonism. you passed.

I figured empire wouldn't take me seriously, I was hoping he has a good grasp of my personality and if he did fery could tell him not to but it seems like fery has bumped her head and has forgotten the past nearly 4 years we have been playing together so I don't know what I am going to do with that except wait to see if emp gets offended or whatever

[Herself]

I'm temporarily locking the topic. Please hold on.

---

I edited Quadraxis's post 351 because it looked a lot like a flip. Please don't post anything that looks like a flip. I added a new rule to that effect.

thanks cos that is exactly what we thought happened.

[Herself]

desp/Herself:

Wrt Pos 331 - 1) I didn't say because you were voting me,  I said because of your "push" on me.  2) as I've said before...I didn't recall who your town reads were so how could I be sheeping you.  And

if having the same town reads is a reason not to suspect someone...then why the fcuk are you suspecting me?

  It's seems hypocritical of you.  We have/had the same town reads so I can't suspect you but you can suspect me....got it.  Mind you I don't think it matters (similar town reads) but since you are bringing it up..........????

You told me that I obviously can't identify town this game because I was wrong about you--even though we had the same town reads at the time. So if your accusation was true (that I couldn't identify town) then you were also condemning your own reads. The fact is that, in your eyes, my being right about 4 town and wrong about 1 town = completely unable to identify town because you were the one I was wrong about. That's the problem.

Wrt Post 332 - You're starting to blend with Strret in my head.  The subject of my catch up posts has been discussed between the two of you and you have provided links.  Fine...I was wrong. 

So you're saying your vote on me (at least initially) is based entirely on my first 2 posts of the game?

  If so that's even worse reasoning than with my catch up post analysis included. 

No. It's partially on your opening posts, and mostly on your reaction to our accusations. I said as much in the post that started this part of the conversation.

Wrt Post 333 - When I mentioned the phone posting it was at the end of my catch up.  It was not "pre-emptive"...it was because people were getting annoyed at the lack of posting and lurkers which between the holiday weekend AND my usual phone posting included me.  The FYI was telling it like it is.  Search phone in my posts and you'll get over 100 hits.  I don't always enter a game making  excuses for phone posting but when I find it's limiting me (or being pointed out that my posting is absent) I point it out.  My phone predominant phone posting is a fact and not a tell.  For you to say my FYI is scummy is making something out of nothing.  Kind of like my first two posts.

I did search phone in the two completed town games that have been linked in this game, and you didn't give excuses for your lack of content in either of them.

Wrt Post 335 - In addition to the Post 333 response above....what were you expecting?  A standard disclaimer in ever game I play?  I never said i do that.  What I did say is that I do most of my posting over the phone and that IS the case.  As evidenced by the mention of phones over 100 times in my posting history.  You should be able to deduce it.  Sorry if my pointing it out confused you.

For the sake of argument and so that you can get support for your suspicions towards me...how about you summarize your reasons for suspecting me?  If it's clear to everyone else (including me) then I can responded (hopefully without player dyslexia) and others can establish or refine their opinions. 

I really can't be any clearer than the posts that you are responding to here. Why are you asking me to summarize my case when we just got done going over it point by point? It hasn't changed.

Do you have any other reads? What do you think about Reg? Milked? TvK? Whatever the hell Quad just did?

- Des

[Herself]

@ SG: Let's not and say we did.

Milked?

- Des

[Herself]

I think your reaching.

[Herself]

When I made the statement I didn’t realize our town reads were the same

….and as I’ve said, if you put weight in to the fact at least 4 of our reads were in agreement at that point and question me for suspecting you nonetheless….why doesn’t that same skepticism apply to you who suspects me despite having similar reads?  To me that seems odd.  

You don't fucking say--my entire point is that you are not taking the entire gamestate into consideration, you are completely focused on yourself and your position in the game and its scummy as fuck. If you were really trying to figure things out, you would have known that we agreed on four townreads and maybe I was just mistaken about you, but you took the opposite route and told me I couldn't identify town even though you are ostensibly town and we had coalesced on four people individually.

Bullshit.  You were saying your vote on me wasn’t random (ergo it was serious) before I began defending myself.  You’ve only recently added the reaction is scummy stuff. 
 
And while we’re on that subject…how can you say I’m reacting differently here?  You say in those games I was “very direct with my rebuttals “ and “he knows the accusation is bullshit and he’s gonna tell you why goddamnit.”  You’re saying my defending of myself in this game has not been direct?  I have not called the accusations against me bullshit?  And I’ve failed to tell you why?  TOWN….please giv this a read.  Also…lol…I just realized what I started this reply with. 

No, I added the reaction is scummy stuff as soon as you reacted the first time in 187. After I pointed out the difference in your reaction here vs your other linked town games, you started to adjust the way you approached me.

It's called scumhunting. You do something scummy (your first two votes), I vote you, you react, I guage your reaction and adjust my read. You got scummier.

Though not voting what I would assume is your prime suspect is not that unusual…is it Herself?

Nice mudsling, asshole. We're a hydra and mollie really wants to scumhunt Milk. I've gotten what I needed to get my read on you so we've moved on.

Although it's good to see that you are staying consistent in your "Don't step out of line of the town consensus other than a shitty OMGUS on obvtown" approach.

- Des

[Herself]

I suggest trying what I do and pulling names out of a hat then.

You two claim to have a lot of experience with TSO so what do you make of his reads list in Post 358 because I don't like it at all. ICE and SG's points about him not voting his scum read (Fitz) and being comfortable keeping his vote on his town read (SG) are both very very solid.

my way is more fun

I have played several games with tso and I think he has been mislynched in nearly every single 1 because he always looks like pondscum. I think he is 1 of those players that you just need to give a little room so he can get his feet in the game. desp has played with him a little bit more than I have so he will have a better grasp of his meta.

[Herself]

@ fery

what do you think of reggie?

[Herself]

@ fery

what do you think of reggie?

First game with him, and my impressions are pretty shaped by Empire's years of experience playing with him. I have found no reason so far to think he's not town.

Is there a reason why you're asking me specifically, rather than the expert on this topic?

yeah cos I wanted to know you thought not emp. I would like to know your first impressions/assessment. this is my first game with him too and I was wondering if yours matched my own.

[Herself]

My first impression was that he has a loose, humorous style of play, and puts a lot of attention on the attitudinal nuances that players give away in their word choices and sentence structures. And he obviously views that through the lens of their priors. I haven't meta'd him because I'm sharing my role PM with someone who has tons of experiential meta. But, I'd sort of expect that he's humorous as scum too, but maybe not quite so loose and easy going in his interactions.

His pace reminds me of other meta-emphasized players (with the notable exception of our esteemed mod) who tend to take a "let the game data come to me" approach, which frees up time for meta analysis. The advantages of having that style as a baseline when scum are pretty obvious.

mine is a little different but we seem to intersect with the "let the game data come to me" approach. his rhythm is good, he's a good dancer, he is letting me get pretty close but not letting me

in

but that might just be cos he doesn't know me. I also think he could do all these things as scum of course but I am thinking he is town.

[Herself]

@ Fitz: "Mudsling" to me is a throwaway comment meant solely to discredit someone.

I wasn't making an excuse, I was stating a fact. You were saying that TSO is scummy for not voting his #1 scumread and then likening him to us--implying we were scummy for voting Milked while "presumably" having you as our #1 scumread. <---Not scummy at all.

Get it?

PS If you think that was me losing my cool, you're just showing your unfamiliarity with me. What you perceive to be me losing my composure is actually me smelling blood.

- Des

[Herself]

@SG I originally planned to get rid of the lurkers first and pursue a fitz lynch day 2. Do you think it's a good idea to hop on the fitz wagon or get rid of a lurker first since they are likely to sub out/flake?

At the moment I feel like I'm watching the town read core eat itself a little from the inside out, and I'm planning to sit back, munch a few cashews, and see where all their meta lands them. Right at this stage I don't have a strong enough opinion about who to lynch to suggest you sheep anything I say.

huh

[Herself]

^#61 was us, not Street. Clarify?

- Des

[Herself]

- Des

[Herself]

Herself



———✹ What's your current read on Regfan?

———✹ Des, in your own words, what exactly did Fitz do in his first two votes that was so scummy?

———✹ Mollie, why do you think Garmr(?) is reaching in your post (392)?

———✹ What's your current read on Kid A?

———✹ To both of you: What's your current Towniest and Scummiest reads?

———✹ Please share your reaction to the Quadraxis/Wake outbreak.

Town
Asked if there were any hydras in this game while quoting a hydra slip; invited SG to talk about her obviously negative reaction when she found out Herself was Mollie and I. Fluff + Instigation = scum
---
Town
Towniest - Street, Garmr, SG, Ice...Scummiest - Fitz, Bard, Milked
I thought it was awesome and I wish you hadn't alt-slipped because I was enjoying the gimmick

- Des

[Herself]

The defense of SG just posting fluff continues in 61. Here Herself basically says it is ok for SG to be useless the rest of the game, because someone got to be the one sheeping the “better” townies.

No, I didn't basically say that at all. I basically said that SG was making it known that her vote is malleable and she won't be prone to taking strong stances that stagnate the game--which is protown.

133 I first misread and thought Herself wanted to lynch Kid A, Garmr. SG and Ice. My first thought was: “Who is stupid enough to want to lynch Ice in this game. This is a scummove!” But then it turns out to be that Herself want to cooperate with them (136). Working with Ice is ok, the rest is strange. SG is possible scum, Kid A haven’t provided much and Garmr isn’t someone I would put into the town category at this point in time.

You don't agree with my townreads so I'm scum? Keep this in mind for later.

134 Speaking for SG!! Why on earth do Herself feel that she needs to come to the rescue of SG here? Let SG defend SG. This feels like a scumbuddy defense IMO. (ICE picked up on this as well in

Do you think all scumbuddies defend one another so blatantly? I get townreads and then I defend them when other players badger them with BS accusations--especially if the 2nd player is also a townread. I can't have my townreads fighting each other if I'm trying to get someone lynched.

The discussion between Herself and SG from 163 -173 seems so manufactured and odd to me. Feels like they planned to have this chat in scumQT.

Yawn. This isn't scumhunting. "Feels like they planned to have this chat in a QT" is just bullshit narrative building.

All the way up until now she haven’t really been giving off any reads. Just trying to make other question their own reads. And maybe some mild mentioning of lurking players. And then she starts with the fitztunnel. As a scumplayer I find it easier to just tunnel the fuck out of as player, and then have some small backup “scumreads” on lurking and low-impact players. It is much easier than giving reads on many players.

We haven't been giving off reads? I thought you just said we were scum because our town reads sucked. You seem to be having some trouble keeping track of why we are scum, why?

Her latest readpost (496) includes the obvious townies SH and ICE. But other than that her reads still suck. Also now including me as scum because I think she is my biggest scumread, and this without hearing my reasons. Really?

I am also including you as scum because your predecessor was scummy and flaked and your opening post was terrible. It had nothing to do with your read on us, and if you were paying attention to the game you would understand that I have absolutely no problem with someone thinking I'm scum--I have a problem when someone is scummy. Which is why you and Fitz are scum, and the other guy who has been tunneling us all game (Ice) is town.

- Des

[Herself]

There is a zero chance of us getting lynched ever.

- Des

[Herself]

1. That's really silly considering you just said that as town your reads shouldn't be influenced by what everyone else thinks. So why are we scum for not sharing your townreads?
2. No shit scumbuddies

can

do it. I'm asking if you think, in practice, scumbuddies

actually

do it.
3. Right, but you are using that as a piece of ammo in your Herself-scum case. So if you are going to reference something that happened and then use it as further evidence for why we are scum, it should probably constitute "scumhunting" don't you think?
4. Yes it is. I don't work with scumreads. Do you? And you're moving goalposts. Did I not have reads, or had I not given reasons for my reads so they don't really count? Because you said the former first, but now you're saying the latter.
5. "orestes - where did he go. its like we are at a concert that was supposed to start at 11pm and it is now 1am and we are still waiting." <---That's not good. I'm townreading Kid A, who made the most salient point on Orestes scum. I think you can connect the dots from there.

- Des

[Herself]

There is extreme dissonance in Bards' scumhunting. He tells Ice that he is not beholden to the general consensus and that he isn't going to alter his scumreads to match it, but literally all of his scumhunting is "this person voted someone I think is town/this person townreads someone I think is scum."

{Fitz, Bard, Milked} is today's kill list.

- Des

[Herself]

In other word, even though he is ostensibly town and is aware of the fact that his reads disagree with most of the other players', his scum reads consist of players who disagree with his reads.

^ Not a town mindset.

- Des

[Herself]

1. No I'm understanding you just fine. You are town and you shouldn't sheep anyone (which means agree with them), but anyone who disagrees with you (or isn't sheeping your reads) is either shit town or scum. This is seriously assbackwards.
2. OK.
3. I don't get it. You aren't using it as evidence, but you are using it as a reason why you think I'm scum? Reasons =/= evidence in your lexicon?
4. I am interpreting it, as you having no idea what you're talking about. You are probably the only one in the room who didn't/doesn't want to understand that when I told ffery (who would absolutely understand my meaning) I wanted to work with X, Y, and Z, that X, Y, and Z were town.
5. /sigh...No, it doesn't, but the entirety of Kid A's content up to the point where I had read him as town was his early Orestes push. Get it?

- Des

[Herself]

Vote: Havingfitz

- Des

[Herself]

Yes I did. You are town leading the counterwagon on town-Garmr for scum (Fitz and TvK).

ISO TvK, control+F "Garmr" and tell me you think he really believes this is the wagon he's been waiting all game for.

- Des

[Herself]

Also Milked townslipped when he said you were coaching, Garmr.

We're not lynching Milked today, we're lynching Fitz.

- Des

[Herself]

Why would scum accuse someone of coaching when they have daytalk and everyone knows it?

- Des

[Herself]

There are 2 scum in {Fitz, TvK, Bard}

You can take that to the fucking bank.

- Des

[Herself]

I am on board with My Milked Eek lynch. Mainly because the read list on 530 is full of nullreads and his reasoning isn't good. Also 7 posts the entire game gives me a "scum struggling finding anything to post"-feel.

Also I think there is an interesting link between MME and havingfitz, so figuring out MME might help figuring out havingfitz.

Unvote

VOTE: My Milked Eek

Look at how quickly Bard dropped this to wagon Garmr. And now Fitz is just a lean town.

His approach to scumhunting is atrocious and there's no conviction to his stances.

Fitz, Bard, TvK if the mafia gods were unusually gracious. More likely 2 of them and an unforeseen third.

- Des

[Herself]

.....passing through with a picket sign that says vote fitz for scum.....

[Herself]

I mean there is cookies and juice, whats not to like

[Herself]

Herself to Garmr's rescue and the last three Garmr votes equal the scum team. Brilliant.

Yeah, if we're lucky. The more likely case is that it's just two of you and the third was on Milked with us.

But I said that at the time and you ignored it here, so whatever.

- Des

[Herself]

At this moment I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. Sans that, proper reads can't really come into existence.

Herself (Mollie), hi.

I've got a question for you please. In 495 I asked you guys a few questions. Desperado answered the questions directed towards him and... would you please answer sthose directed towards you too, please? That'd really help. Here they are:

———✹

What's your current read on Regfan?

———✹

Mollie, why do you think Garmr(?) is reaching in your post (392)?

———✹

What's your current read on Kid A?

———✹

To both of you: What's your current Towniest and Scummiest reads?

———✹

Please share your reaction to the Quadraxis/Wake outbreak.

1. I think I have him as town for now and I am treating him as such I believe I have said this already.
2. because to me it looked like he was stretching the argument to force a conclusion? the usual reasons why some1 might say that some1 was reaching?
3. I personally don't have 1.
4. desp has answered this already
5. lemme guess you had this great idea that worked out perfectly in your head about how you were going to be all sneaky and try to stay under the radar and then all of a sudden you would burst into colour all over the thread in your cape and that you would single handedly decimate the scumteam cos they would see your awsumness and they would tremble and immediately drop 50 scumtells confess their scummy little sins and prostrate themselves at your feet while begging for mercy. no? mebbe thats just me then.

tbh I don't see how any of those questions you asked are so important that our alignment hinges on them. most of them you could probably either discern from desp or find the flow of my thoughts.

[Herself]

wake, have you asked fitz any questions? why won't you vote him?

[Herself]

wake, have you asked fitz any questions? why won't you vote him?

I am planning to. The reason he hasn't earned my vote yet, like you and others, is because there's not enough compelling reason to do so. Although, an explanation on your part for wanting me to vote him would be appreciated.

tbh, I am not sure I can offer anything more compelling than what has been already said! I don't have the burning desire to lynch him like desp does but I can see where desp and reggie are coming from.

if I were to get weird about anybody at this point it would be street, mebbe ice. mebbe reggie.

I dunno, something that has been bugging me for a bit; reggie knew right away what I was doing, it was like he

expected

it and the only person that I have shared that meta with is emp and desp. nacho just naturally figured that out on his own. so I have this vague weird tie that is keeping me in a state of near hysteria/paranoia epic meltdown that is only being held in check by desp chanting "keep it together keep it together".

also I am not as comfy as every1 else is with ice.

[Herself]

1. I think I have him as town for now and I am treating him as such I believe I have said this already.
2. because to me it looked like he was stretching the argument to force a conclusion? the usual reasons why some1 might say that some1 was reaching?
3. I personally don't have 1.
4. desp has answered this already
5. lemme guess you had this great idea that worked out perfectly in your head about how you were going to be all sneaky and try to stay under the radar and then all of a sudden you would burst into colour all over the thread in your cape and that you would single handedly decimate the scumteam cos they would see your awsumness and they would tremble and immediately drop 50 scumtells confess their scummy little sins and prostrate themselves at your feet while begging for mercy. no? mebbe thats just me then.

Please wait a minute, Mollie.

To question #4, I asked Desperado... but I also asked

you. I don't think Desperado gets to answer for you, Mollie. I want to hear your thoughts...

from you

. You two may be part of a hydra, but there's still two people in there, and two heads than can each be addressed one-to-one. Please don't undo the confidence Desperado gave me for his answering of my questions; it'd be unfair to him especially, whether you two are Town or Scum. I can only say it as nicely as I can: you don't want to do that. So, please Mollie, what's

your

current Towniest and Scummiest reads? In spite of being combine with Desperado, you're allowed to have a differing answer.

Your answer to #5 doesn't help Town.

...those questions are important in general, but it's the reactions to those questions that really matter. How you respond determines your future in this game. If you evade, or redirect, or get defensive, that's a trigger. That triggers causes even more shots to be fired. Nothing needs to be said in defense of this process, because it's self-explanatory.

desp provided a list that we worked hard at coming up with as a consolidated list. I am not going to give an individual 1 cos I feel like it is unnecessary.

my number 1 pet peeve is when players try to drive a wedge in hydras especially wrt readslists. the only reason I not reading you as scum now is cos the motivation behind it feels like you are trying to get a read on me.

I don't see how it is beneficial for town for you to ask me about what I thought of your antics. I found it hard to take that question seriously

[Herself]

wake, have you asked fitz any questions? why won't you vote him?

I am planning to. The reason he hasn't earned my vote yet, like you and others, is because there's not enough compelling reason to do so. Although, an explanation on your part for wanting me to vote him would be appreciated.

tbh, I am not sure I can offer anything more compelling than what has been already said! I don't have the burning desire to lynch him like desp does but I can see where desp and reggie are coming from.

if I were to get weird about anybody at this point it would be street, mebbe ice. mebbe reggie.

I dunno, something that has been bugging me for a bit; reggie knew right away what I was doing, it was like he

expected

it and the only person that I have shared that meta with is emp and desp. nacho just naturally figured that out on his own. so I have this vague weird tie that is keeping me in a state of near hysteria/paranoia epic meltdown that is only being held in check by desp chanting "keep it together keep it together".

also I am not as comfy as every1 else is with ice.

A post that contains really brief yet condensed points as to why lynching who is alright... helps.

It would be best for everyone if you kept yourself in check.

What would you say is the biggest, most compelling reason as to why I should cast my vote against Street Hassle?

see that is just it, I don't have anything compelling to offer. it is just feels. emp's reaction to desp looked genuine I think, but while emp danced with me he never really got close.

reading their posts is like watching old people have sex. they are so incredibly perfunctory, I mean even emp's "I am wondering if we have scum in our townpile I mean can it really be that easy" is just omg so damn predictable that I don't even know what to do with it. there is a distinct lack of leadership coming from that slot when there shouldn't be.

[Herself]

The beaten to death crap case on me evolving from my 1st 2 posts.

The only person who's beaten those two posts to death is you, they've barely factored into my read since Street and I discussed it originally.

Painting my reactions as against my typical meta (wrt defending myself) which is clearly incorrect.

It is not clearly incorrect. I posted samples from two town games and from your post 187 and there were clear differences. You've adjusted your style w/r/t this slot since that happened.

Advocating policy lynches on lurkers 6 or 7 pages into the game.

The same lurkers that you agreed were scummy on page 8? "Players I suspect atm: Herself, Orestes, the non-posters." - Fitz, Post #187

Trying to encourage votes on me based on the fact my v/LA had ended….13 minutes into the day I was coming off v/LA.  (Ridiculous)

Actually, I was encouraging SG to vote you for additional pressure; she balked because you were V/LA and the vote wouldn't do any good if you couldn't respond to the pressure, to which I responded that your V/LA was over. It doesn't matter

how long

it had been over, the salient point was that SG was now aware that voting you would, in fact, elicit a reaction.

- Des

[Herself]

Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?

Quick check shows bard would have had a hard time justifying a vote on fitz, and fitz wasn't going to self-vote. TvK passing up Fitz for Garmr makes the least sense though. Based on his ISO fitz was consistently scummier than garmr until #580 and then he kind of awkwardly transposes them, then votes Garmr.

Unvote
Vote: TvK

I'd like him to explain his actions re: Eek/Garmr/Fitz wagons

- Des

[Herself]

Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?

Can't you conclude from this that Garmr has to be scum and Fitz and Eek are probably both town?

It takes some pretty heavy gymnastics to come to a conclusion like this based on what happened.

- Des

[Herself]

Ok, let's go through what I missed.

I very much liked the conversation between SG and Street on page 5-6, however, I didn't approve of SG's conclusion, Street's reasoning seems legit to me.

@ Street: I want to work with Kid A, Garmr, SG, and Ice today. Do any of them miss the cut for you two?

Hmm, Kid A? Don't see how he should be in this group. Unless you played with him before...

I still like Garmr's way of posting, same with the Des head of Herself. Very good content in his posts.

I can't really read ICE at this moment. Especially his last couple of posts where he really focuses on Herself. But still, none of his points could maybe convince me to thinking Herself is scummy.

I also only have a few completed games in here, including 0 scum games.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time reading people in here. Too many people come across as town, but still I'm waiting for all of them to say something that I can find scummy. That's probably why my vote is still on Orestes and also why I don't like Kid A. To get town credit, they should come in here and post stuff. I don't see how 1/2 decent posts followed by 6 pages of silence belongs in the town read pile.

Same with TSO, he has given literally zero content. And with fitz as well, as I said before, his wall looks impressive, but it says nothing.

But lets run through this, who do you currently have read as town and why?

Street: No doubt about these guys, I don't think I need to explain why they are town. Clear and helpful content in nearly all of their posts.

Herself: Town, I like their way of hunting. I really liked #155.

Squirrel Girl: Never really could consolidate a good town read on her. Now that I read her ISO, I don't feel good about #113, where she says she has nothing but a town read on Street, and then suddenly she votes them in #126, while Street just didn't want to give away his reasons to the person he was voting. Then again in #209, she votes Fitz. She never stated if she thought Street was less scummy to go on to vote Fitz because she was convinced by Herself, even though she says she doesn't agree with the points made because of Fitz's meta. Does not look good, imo.

ICE: I like his #112 and #125. Even though I don't agree with his reasoning to vote Herself for most of the day, I do think he is town. But his latest posts reflect my thoughts, with #277 as a perfect example.

Garmr: A bit of this and a bit of that. I can't say I have a town read on him. I can't say I find him scummy. Absolute null at the moment.

Fitz: Still think he doesn't look good.

Regfan: Yup, you are exactly right, I haven't done anything townish yet in this game, thanks for pointing that out. I hope this looks a bit better to you.

TSO: No content = no towncred = in the case of this game, looking scummy.

Orestes: Unless he does actually sleep for 32 hours straight, every minute that goes by without him posting his long-awaited "go into more next post"-post is making him look worse. Liking my vote here.

Kid A: I still don't see how 4 one-liners make him look townish to nearly everyone. And in his last post he is even asking Herself's read on Street, while it was incredibly obvious that Herself found them town.

Milked Eek: Same as TSO.

My reads (haven't changed a lot since #280:

TOWN

Street
Herself
ICE
Regfan

LEANING TOWN

Squirrel Girl, I'll have to admit that her playing style threw me off at the beginning, but now I'm fairly sure that she's town.

NULL

LolWagons
Kid A
Garmr, although I didn't like his very soft attack on me in #391, that felt a bit forced, trying to do something townish.

LEANING SCUM

Eek
Fitz, the fact that we haven't heard from him in a while makes him look worse imo.

SCUM

Bard, not for having an opinion I don't agree with. He's trying to make cases when there are none. His entire attack at Herself, SG and me feels so fabricated, nothing natural at all. Desparately trying to look town.

Up to here it's pretty clear where TvK stands on Garmr and Fitz--Fitz is scummy and Garmr is null. He even clarifies further here:

I can't catch you on really doing something scummy, but I can't seem to get a solid townread on you. You occasionally say something about your reads, and you've asked a few questions. But you never really go deeper into something. I sometimes find your questions too careful, as if you want to ask some, but you're not really interested in getting an answer. The same with your scumreads. You say you don't like Bard, but the only things you have done is agreeing with me that his reasoning was weird and you gave him your reads. You just called him scum without really questioning what his reasons were. You had a little conversation with Eek, but all you did was answer his questions without putting some heat on him, even though your vote is still on him.

And to answer your final question: I would want Bard lynched most, followed by Fitz.

P-EDIT: GOt quadruple ninja'd, will address those posts in a bit.

Engaging Garmr as if he's clearly uncertain about him, and declarative that he wants Bard first, Fitz 2nd.

To make it clear, my previous post was an answer to Garmr's #565

Right. Approaching Garmr with uncertainty, got it.

@TvK wrtPost 564...what would your read on me be if you weren't factoring in my not having posted in a while (Please note my sig block ). 

The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment). In 2 posts you have given your reads, that mostly include null reads with a dash of leaning town. Your latest readlist looks a bit better (in terms of more balanced out), even though I don't like it that you find Wake and Eek town, when they only posted a little bit of content on the last couple of pages.

Confirming again that he thinks Fitz is scum. Definitely scummier than Garmr, who he just reminded us that he can't get a grip on and is thus null.

Garmr, do you always react this heavy when someone calls you scummy? I actually found Fitz's points about you quite valid, and not as ignorant or omgus as you call it. Also, I don't like your explanation for your case on Fitz. So he's scummy because he was not going for the lurker, but rather for a player that posted a lot of content?

Caught up again. I still don't like Garmr, but I also don't think we can avoid an Eek lynch. Will post more detailed stuff later.

Wait, what? What do you mean "still don't like Garmr?" Weren't you scumreading Fitz? How did an argument between a scum and a null read turn the null read into a scum read?

I agree with every bolded statement in Eek's #679. Especially the one about the meta. When Garmr mentioned his scumgame (can't remember the exact #), I read the game and I must say, his playstyle has a lot in common with what he's doing here. I'm also not impressed at all by his response to Eek big post, especially because he seems so confident that he really "debunked" it. Guess it's time to hop on the wagon, took me long enough to find a good place.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garmr

Wait,

what?!?

Where was all of this when Garmr was null? I don't buy that the last breaths of what had just been an inevitable lynch have completely changed your perception of Garmr that you had clearly built throughout the thread.

Eek is town, Garmr is town, Fitz might be town but could still be scum (and needs to shoot tonight--preferrably Silver Bard or Kid A).

- Des

[Herself]

@ TvK: So if I have this right, you thought all three of Fitz, Bard, Eek, and Garmr were all scum (in roughly that order), but then the posts of all three of the people you found scummy convinced you that Garmr was actually the scummiest? Even though Eek's case spans the entirety of Garmr's ISO (which you had been on record as being null on the entire game)?

^Not flying. TvK needs rope.

- Des

[Herself]

I fucking told you that Garmr gets it, mollie

Holy shit man I love you. A+++++++ post, would read 1000 more times

Other than the fact that I'm not convinced that Fitz is town yet, that is exactly what I think just happened.

- Des

[Herself]

We'll revisit your TvK town case tomorrow

Unvote
Vote: Silver Bard

- Des

[Herself]

ok crazy theory - mafia team has daytalk but the kill is submitted by a traitor who cant read the conversation (kind of like ground control and then theres one guy in space)
also herself is one of the people with access to the daytalk

this would explain havingfitz having a low powered role when scum were seemingly pretty well powered and explain one of herselfs posts where i think he tried to soft a pr read

VOTE: herself

I generally don't buy into "Crackpot theory = town" but jesus christ the imagination is strong in this one.

- Des

[Herself]

PS I don't soft/crumb my role. Care to quote where you think I was trying to here?

- Des

[Herself]

What role am I softing?

- Des

[Herself]

I agree Reg. The theory is so crazy and he must be town.

- Des

[Herself]

You are not retarded. But you aren't right either.

Compromise on Bard?

- Des

[Herself]

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

If it wound up that you were today's lynch and you flipped town I would adjust opinions accordingly. TvK would be someone I'd look at more closely. Along with TSB probably. Do you suspect TvK more than TSB?

Why don't we just skip the part where Garmr flips town and just lynch Bard and you shoot TvK?

- Des

[Herself]

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

I would definitely agree with this. However is you flip scum, would you shoot Herself, Fitz?

Are you seriously 1v1ing Garmr right now?

- Des

[Herself]

1. Lynch Bard
2. Shoot TvK
3. ????
4. Profit

PEdit: You'll get your explanation tomorrow, I guarantee it.

- Des

[Herself]

Reg, I don't know if Empire will have a chance to get online and talk before deadline. There's a little over 24 hours left, though, so maybe.

Anyone know the vote count on TSB?

3 (Reg, Herself, Garmr)

- Des

[Herself]

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

I would definitely agree with this. However is you flip scum, would you shoot Herself, Fitz?

Are you seriously 1v1ing Garmr right now?

- Des

Yes.

That's a bad fucking idea.

- Des

[Herself]

Fitz, your explanation in Post 566 was just that he "Allleviated your concerns" rather than actual reasoning and your reasoning in Post 678 was an abscence of a scum read which should lead towards you having a null read on him, not a town read so yeah, I was kind of asking you because without a good reason my votes most certainly not changing.

PEdit: Street, what's your doubts about SG (I have her up in the strong town tier of my thoughts) and ugh at you having TvK as scum too (Kind of makes me worry that I'm wrong with my town read on him and I think I've been wrong far too much already this game).

They're pretty minor doubts re SG, really. It's about the argument with Wake, though she's been something of a nitpicker throughout the game, but in that case it seems tangential and not moving the game forward much given the amount of time and effort. Could be purely personality/style.

We've had TvK as town for a good while, too. I need to reread the garmr interactions and maybe I'll change my mind again. I feel like the fitz, Eek and garmr interactions mean something, but nothing about the evolution and interactions of those wagons looks scum driven to me. I'm not a wagon analyst, though, so ymmv. If all of that was town vs town, then I'm down to TvK scum by PoE of my town reads. And I need to find at least one more scum in the town pile as well.

I would look at ice.

[Herself]

Will I find the reasons why in your ISO?

probably not, it isn't something that I have pursued.

any lingering nibbles of paranoia have been removed with that list. it is very close to mine. but if I were to take another look at who is in our town that mebbe looks kind of sketchy I would say ice.

reggie is giving me nightmare flashbacks of thorella in twd. he is saying everything that I am thinking and my thoughts are pretty very very similar. but then so were thor's. I told desp the last week that I thought bard boy was scum but we were focused on fitz but then low and behold, a bard boy wagon was birthed and I like the mommies.

[Herself]

Fitz, your explanation in Post 566 was just that he "Allleviated your concerns" rather than actual reasoning and your reasoning in Post 678 was an abscence of a scum read which should lead towards you having a null read on him, not a town read so yeah, I was kind of asking you because without a good reason my votes most certainly not changing.

PEdit: Street, what's your doubts about SG (I have her up in the strong town tier of my thoughts) and ugh at you having TvK as scum too (Kind of makes me worry that I'm wrong with my town read on him and I think I've been wrong far too much already this game).

They're pretty minor doubts re SG, really. It's about the argument with Wake, though she's been something of a nitpicker throughout the game, but in that case it seems tangential and not moving the game forward much given the amount of time and effort. Could be purely personality/style.

We've had TvK as town for a good while, too. I need to reread the garmr interactions and maybe I'll change my mind again. I feel like the fitz, Eek and garmr interactions mean something, but nothing about the evolution and interactions of those wagons looks scum driven to me. I'm not a wagon analyst, though, so ymmv. If all of that was town vs town, then I'm down to TvK scum by PoE of my town reads. And I need to find at least one more scum in the town pile as well.

I would look at ice.

Also, could you put an updated reads list in the thread sometime soon? I'd like to kick stuff around a little before the day ends.

Me. :/

will do. I am at work now, if my schedule continues to look empty I will have it up this afternoon if not, then tonight.

[Herself]

For the record, Wake, I was goosing you a little about your questions and useless content. You made the mistake of telling scum about how to get under your skin, so I brought it up a lot more than I would have had you not said anything. I figured you'd be less effective to town if you were playing more emotionally and less logically.

Part of a good scum game is getting people frustrated and off balance, I think. It has sure as hell worked on me more than once.

amen