NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[House]

/confirm

Reading up on history, 25 pages in or so atm.

[House]

Okay, on page 45.

I gotta take a break. This has been quite the read so far.

Not really looking for impressions to build reads on that early, but the historical context seems to be worthy intel.

[House]

Oh god house...
House we all know you got a scum role.

lol, nah. I haven't run into one of those on this site yet. Seems I roll red on another site.

Kinda interesting that you would have a go at me right off the bat. umadbro?

[House]

I mad yes. But eh.
Listen to me pls

We'll see how my research pans out.

P-Edit: Can't really say, Psyche. Ongoing game stuff.

[House]

Or you could just sheep Jiffy again seeing as how he's obviously the most reputable person here.

Glancing back at the scum lynch, I find it odd that you call Majiffy the most reputable person here when he had no part of it.

Aeronaut (LYNCH): Marquis, Titus, OkaPoka, reinoe, Gameplay506, Alina, texcat, tn5421, Mirhawk, Psyche

(Not on Aero)
zMuffinMan
Majiffy
PeregrineV
notscience
Shaddowez
Skybird

Granted, I haven't read all

167

freakin' pages, but that's a pretty odd claim to run across under those circumstances.

[House]

Now my curiosity is aroused. ISOing Majiffy for giggles.

[House]

But can't we lynch Aeronaut today and tree tomorrow?

Because I give a 30% estimate of tree being scum, but Aeronaut is around double that.

I'm much stronger on Tree than Psyche or Aeronaut.

Most of my scumreads on them necessitate Tree flipping.

But can't we lynch Aeronaut today and tree tomorrow?

Because I give a 30% estimate of tree being scum, but Aeronaut is around double that.

I'm much stronger on Tree than Psyche or Aeronaut.

Most of my scumreads on them necessitate Tree flipping.

VOTE: Aero

Letsdoit

Dafuk? Tunnel a guy for 3 days, then flip on a dime? Aside from tunneling his target du jour, he seems to do a lot of fluff posting.

Majiffy, what was your read on Psych back on the 24th? You two liked to go back and forth, but I missed an actual read of him among the sea of posts.


So... hardcore tunneling for 3 days, just to wander off and forget about his big bad scum read the rest of the day, fluff central, absence on a scum lynch... and this guy is our most reputable player?

Granted he's no tree and all... but I want Elyse back up in hyur. Her posting was impressive (the 60 pages I read of it before my eyeballs started smoking).

P-Edit: Eh, a solo vote doesn't mean much, but noted. I'm not throwing this post out though, so deal with it.

[House]

Initial reads based on half-assed research:

Shaddowez

- Town (serious sauce, no fluff, extra side of scum hunting)

Majiffy

- Towny Scum (fluff & tunnel, fluff & tunnel; FLIP!)
notscience - Anti-Town (self-voting (I heard that's bad, somewhere), fluff master; seems to put a lot of thought in his reads, though)

Psyche

- Scum (Could he possibly post more and say less? I don't think so...)

Mirhawk

- Town (Appeasey 481 flipped back to abrasive 483, like he knew he may have slipped; Votes Elyse scum...

seriously?

; Allowed some pretty basic logic to flip his read on Majiffy... he should have seen that himself; I did. Later posts are redemptive, though.)

Marquis

- Town (As much as I hate it)

reinoe

- Scummy Town (introduced the possibility of Titus PR; ADVOCATING TEXTING & DRIVING!)

[House]

Will read & post more later, I'm freakin' sleepy.

This game is a time sink.

[House]

Psyche - Scum (Could he possibly post more and say less? I don't think so...)
Marquis - Town (As much as I hate it)

I'm assuming you haven't gotten there yet, but Marquis and Psyche are claiming masons. Considering you're listing one as town and one as scum, which do you think is more likely?

Will read & post more later, I'm freakin' sleepy.

This game is a time sink.

Yeah, I definitely don't envy anybody coming into this game late.

Nope, not there yet. Wouldn't be the first time i was wrong, by any means.

[House]

This looks really fucking cherry picked and you're lucky I had such a strong townread on Alina.

Why, would you tunnel me for three days and flip to Psyche?

Anyway as I said, these are initial impressions based on what ice read so far and not final reads.

Your paranoia is noted, though.

[House]

I've*

Damn phone

[House]

Vote: Oka

I call BS on the X-Shot doctor post. That sounds like a PR claim custom made to dodge a CC from a real doc.

Haven't seen any blocked attacks either, considering scum & SK have been happily going about their business without

any

misses at all.

If I've missed a whiff from scum/SK somewhere, somebody please enlighten me. From what I've read, there seems to be 5 NK's in 3 nights (because scum & SK tag teamed titus, not due to doc block).

[House]

Scum and sk tried to crosskill each other, and I couldn't protect titus so your case is invalid. So you are literally going to continue the tunnel alina has constructed and continue digging?

Still catching up, I haven't even read her posts yet. I ran across talk of your X-shot doc claim while reading up on Majiffy and it stank of scum.

I played scum in a multiball setup on another site, and my partner in that game used a similar tactic with his fakeclaim to avoid a CC.

[House]

Wake modded that game too, interestingly enough.

[House]

Scum and sk tried to crosskill each other, and I couldn't protect titus so your case is invalid. So you are literally going to continue the tunnel alina has constructed and continue digging?

And you misconstrued my post. I want blaming you for not protecting titus, I was simply saying there was only one kill that night BECAUSE they tag teamed titus, NOT BECAUSE you blocked the SECOND kill.

[House]

want = wasn't

[House]

want = wasn't

[House]

whatever you say

That's what

she

said.

[House]

So you rolled scum House? Make sense with HOW YOU ARE SO SIMILAR WITH ALINA.

On USMB? Yep. Nice attempt at a deflection, tho.

[House]

Vote: Oka

I call BS on the X-Shot doctor post. That sounds like a PR claim custom made to dodge a CC from a real doc.

Haven't seen any blocked attacks either, considering scum & SK have been happily going about their business without

any

misses at all.

If I've missed a whiff from scum/SK somewhere, somebody please enlighten me. From what I've read, there seems to be 5 NK's in 3 nights (because scum & SK tag teamed titus, not due to doc block).

I played scum in a multiball setup on another site, and my partner in that game used a similar tactic with his fakeclaim to avoid a CC.

Echo. Because it annoys scumOka.

[House]

So here goes nothing.

I was going to claim a cop since I was getting called scum and didn't want to be lynched as doc. You see I was going to claim cop to take a bullet. And my "special plan" was to protect myself, as in my role pm it did not say I couldn't protect myself. I did not want to cause a mess so I didn't claim in thread, but talked in qt suggesting it. Wake clarified with me, that I couldn't protect myself.

Finally after that was clarified I considered a pgo claim to make it so I wouldn't die.

I kept this "special plan" to scare scum.

There is my explanation

I'm pretty fucking new to Mafia, but even I smell the b/s this is saturated with.

You would think a supposed PR would know how his role is supposed to work before he/she gambits with it. Especially in this case,where the fact a doctor can't self-protect is

BOLDED IN THE WIKI

.

It's no wonder Alina was tunneling you, you're scum!

[House]

So here goes nothing.

Y'know, I used to use that phrase as a child... right before I took a huge risk and knew I'd be in major trouble if I failed.

[House]

Or you could just sheep Jiffy again seeing as how he's obviously the most reputable person here.

Glancing back at the scum lynch, I find it odd that you call Majiffy the most reputable person here when he had no part of it.

Aeronaut (LYNCH): Marquis, Titus, OkaPoka, reinoe, Gameplay506, Alina, texcat, tn5421, Mirhawk, Psyche

(Not on Aero)
zMuffinMan
Majiffy
PeregrineV
notscience
Shaddowez
Skybird

Granted, I haven't read all

167

freakin' pages, but that's a pretty odd claim to run across under those circumstances.

Aero lynch happened in less than 26 hours based on a counterclaim.

Counterclaim apparently means nothing in this game. If true, that's a stupid reason to lynch somebody. We got lucky, because that kind of logic is terribad.

[House]

Wow, 3 pages of not much.

@House

- please read my spec on the neighborhoods and scum existence/distribution in them. Also read my posts on the voting patterns and counts. It's all in my ISO. Would like to see your thought-out comments.

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger. Wake loves his random distros.

[House]

So here goes nothing.

I was going to claim a cop since I was getting called scum and didn't want to be lynched as doc. You see I was going to claim cop to take a bullet. And my "special plan" was to protect myself, as in my role pm it did not say I couldn't protect myself. I did not want to cause a mess so I didn't claim in thread, but talked in qt suggesting it. Wake clarified with me, that I couldn't protect myself.

Finally after that was clarified I considered a pgo claim to make it so I wouldn't die.

I kept this "special plan" to scare scum.

There is my explanation

I'm pretty fucking new to Mafia, but even I smell the b/s this is saturated with.

You would think a supposed PR would know how his role is supposed to work before he/she gambits with it. Especially in this case,where the fact a doctor can't self-protect is

BOLDED IN THE WIKI

.

It's no wonder Alina was tunneling you, you're scum!

HEY YOU! IN MY ROLE PM IT DIDN'T STATE I COULDN'T PROTECT MYSELF. ALSO IN SOME VARIATIONS DOCTORS CAN PROTECT THEMSELVES! SO READ THE ENTIRE THING! I HAD TO BE SURE!

k thx

Of course it didn't say you couldn't protect yourself.I it also didn't say you couldn't protect anyone else. Nor did it say you could.

The wiki states quite plainly doctor can't self-protect.

Variations

would need to be specified in a role pm, NOT vanilla attributes.

Sorry, but I'm not as easily suckered as some other folks.

[House]

Wow, 3 pages of not much.

@House

- please read my spec on the neighborhoods and scum existence/distribution in them. Also read my posts on the voting patterns and counts. It's all in my ISO. Would like to see your thought-out comments.

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger. Wake loves his random distros.

Crunch some numbers. Randomly, what is the odds of at least one scum in each hood?

How many scum? How many neighborhoods, three? Are we also including the SK in the scum total, or are they a separate consideration?

Math was never my super strong suit, but I can give it a shot, or you can just tell us since I'm sure you've already done it.

[House]

Wow, 3 pages of not much.

@House

- please read my spec on the neighborhoods and scum existence/distribution in them. Also read my posts on the voting patterns and counts. It's all in my ISO. Would like to see your thought-out comments.

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger. Wake loves his random distros.

You are speculating that I am lying. Oh wait

Your lies aren't setup spec, they are scum fabrications.

[House]

House's read on me

Eh, that was my initial impression.

My read is leaning SK, because SK can easily blend in with town by scum hunting, which bus then town cred and makes it easier to overlook the anti-town tendencies.

[House]

House's read on me

Eh, that was my initial impression.

My read is leaning SK, because SK can easily blend in with town by scum hunting, which buys them town cred and makes it easier to overlook the anti-town tendencies.

Fix't. FU autocorrect.

[House]

Oka sure is squirming a lot for one piddly ass newbie poking them with a stick.

If I was a PR, I wouldn't be trying to kick up such a fuss unless the wagon got wheels.

[House]

Gameplay, come to the Oka side.

I'm serving doublestuft oreos and milk.

[House]

I don't see how SK hunting is inherently scummy.

If you can cut the number of NK's in half with a single lynch, shouldn't that be a

good

thing? o_O

[House]

Wait why is he being wagoned?
Another mislynch

Because of his painfully obvious fakeclaim.

[House]

Speaking of which, a

real

claim might be nice about now Oka.

[House]

notscience, what would you think of a day vig who doesn't care about anyone else's input and chose his targets based on his own criteria without explaining such vig shots to town? Would you be okay with lynching such a player?

If so, how is a serial killer better than such a day vig? SK has to kill town just as much as scum does, and town helps SK by hunting their scum competition.

[House]

no he's being wagoned because reinoe decided to claim a role that makes his claim unlikelier

if oka was the only claimed protective role, no you can't just say it's a "painfully obvious fakeclaim"

It's quite obvious that I can, since I was saying that very thing before reinoe claimed.

[House]

usual/optimal sk play is trying to be a town vig with a bit of "if you're scumreading me then gtfo" on the side

I'm seeing that kind of play in another game, so yeah.

[House]

let's not talk about ongoings kthx.

I'm not yw.

[House]

no. the claim was legitimate in the scenario that it was the only claimed town protective role, which lasted until reinoe decided to claim

speaking of which i'm still upset over how he didn't claim the shield role earlier on given that titus had an innocent result on him making him a potential nk soon anyway and since the shield claim could have saved us from a mislynch from his point of view

i'm still nowhere near convinced that reinoe isn't just pulling shit out of his ass in the form of a pseudo-fake guilty

First != Trustworthy.

The whole claim smacks of fake construct.

[House]

Interestingly enough, oka made it to L-1 pretty quick with reinoe's claim. Actually didn't think votes would pile on so fast. Maybe we can get him lynched after all.

But there's little doubt one claim or the other is fake. Of course, if I'm wrong about oka, it would have to be reinoe. Must have a scummer between the two of them, though. Bleh, not as certain as I initially was, but still happy with my vote.

[House]

Ok so I vote.
I want night cus I need to read sorry

VOTE: Oka

That was scummy as fuck.

Thanks for the vote... but damn dude, that 180 was like whoa.

[House]

I am cop cleared. So suck my ass.
If this flips town you die tomorrow.

Cop cleared doesn't mean conf town. II SK & Godfather can be cop cleared.

[House]

Goes from defending oka to knowingly hammering without posting intent in one post...

That just blows my mind.

[House]

no. the claim was legitimate in the scenario that it was the only claimed town protective role, which lasted until reinoe decided to claim

speaking of which i'm still upset over how he didn't claim the shield role earlier on given that titus had an innocent result on him making him a potential nk soon anyway and since the shield claim could have saved us from a mislynch from his point of view

i'm still nowhere near convinced that reinoe isn't just pulling shit out of his ass in the form of a pseudo-fake guilty

I'm am not engaging in a pseudo-guilty gambit. Not after all the shit I took early in this game where people were begging me not to gambit.

You misread his post. He said pseudo-fake.

Pseudo = fake. So pseudo-fake = fake-fake = true.

He was saying you were running a true guilty gambit.

[/smartass]

[House]

Fuck. I was a regular doc gambitting so I could save myself for lylo.

Goodamnit.

That's bullshit too (the logic, I mean). A claimed doc is a claimed doc.

[House]

Me claiming limited shots allows me to preserve myself and you guys go after me thinking I am scum so I am essentially a VT.

My point being, if scum wanted to keel PR or those considered conftown, they'd still target you.

They seem to be after the stronger players this game instead, so folks like you and I don't really have anything to worry about from scum, it's town that will likely get

us

me.

[House]

never mind that titus was a claimed macho investigative role and there have been and still are better targets for scum than oka due to how much he's been scumread

Titus was doubly dangerous because of her role, not a threat simply because of it.

[House]

Me claiming limited shots allows me to preserve myself and you guys go after me thinking I am scum so I am essentially a VT.

My point being, if scum wanted to keel PR or those considered conftown, they'd still target you.

They seem to be after the stronger players this game instead, so folks like you and I don't really have anything to worry about from scum, it's town that will likely get

us

me.

lol. makin justificications for lynchin a pr.

ok

kill him with fire

I lynched a fake claim.

You admitted to it.

Don't lie and then get all butt hurt when you're called out on it.

[House]

alrighty house lemme rant here

Happy now?

When a doctor FUCKING claims you don't tunnel.

Because clearly scum would

never dare

claim doctor because doctor is so easy to confirm since the blocked kills are announced to town.

OH WAIT!

It was fucking obvious that my 3 shots was gambit. It was obvious I was being stealthy. It was obvious I was a pr. It was obvious and blatant that I was selfpreserving. Yet as soon as you read alina's iso you go on an insane mastermind of herp a derp lets lynch oka cuz he isn't doctor.

I hadn't even touched Alina's ISO until you accused me of following her tunnel because I had no reason to before that point. I was still reading about

active

players.

You didn't even consider reinoe and his BLATANTLY overpowered role and you went lets be dumb and keep on tunneling yo.

There's time for reinoe tomorrow, assuming he lives through the night... considering kills haven't been blocked period, hell no I don't buy his b/s claim.

Yet you kept pushing with no consideration of oka town.

Yeah, I don't town read liars, sorry.

Your case was exactly what alina said. Yet when you say it, it magically has powers? No because you didn't realize that "hint hint" scum sheeped you while no other wagon happened and rekt me.

Right, because people will believe an experienced player over my newb ass. Your butthurt is showing.

And you don't acknowledge the hammer from left field.

That's a flat out lie, but I'm stating the obvious here as you have a history of doing that.

Ok so I vote.
I want night cus I need to read sorry

VOTE: Oka

That was scummy as fuck.

Thanks for the vote... but damn dude, that 180 was like whoa.

[House]

pls don't let me reenter this thread.

Just stop talking. Please.

Ok so I vote.
I want night cus I need to read sorry

VOTE: Oka

That was scummy as fuck.

Thanks for the vote... but damn dude, that 180 was like whoa.

[House]

(If you couldn't tell I fell super salty about house)

i think I'm actually not going to post anymore as every post just pisses me off more and more.

Oka, I claimed because I couldn't wrap my mind around a claimed doctor not getting killed. I tried to give the benefit of the doubt and considered the possibility that there could be two protective roles, especially since mine is limited. But there were some things about your play I also didn't like. I realized that if I claimed one of us would get lynched. If you're town doctor then we got set-up fucked. But it's the type of setup I could see myself running which is why I didn't cc right away.

Somebody somewhere once told me setup spec is bad.

[House]

For all these protective PR claims, ain't nobody being protected.

Reinoe's broken ass claim makes the least sense of the 3.


VOTE: reinoe

[House]

Vote: House

One time, at band camp...

I mean, one time, in this game I modded, a scum player replaced in and proceeded to get the white mage lynched.

Right, I was the only person that called bs on that retarded claim.

Whatevs.

[House]

You didn't even consider reinoe and his BLATANTLY overpowered role and you went lets be dumb and keep on tunneling yo.

There's time for reinoe tomorrow, assuming he lives through the night... considering kills haven't been blocked period, hell no I don't buy his b/s claim.

[House]

For all these protective PR claims, ain't nobody being protected.

Reinoe's broken ass claim makes the least sense of the 3.


VOTE: reinoe

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger.

Misrep is bad, yo.

[House]

Vote: House

One time, at band camp...

I mean, one time, in this game I modded, a scum player replaced in and proceeded to get the white mage lynched.

Right, I was the only person that called bs on that retarded claim.

Whatevs.

OkaPoka, Town Doc

(LYNCH): House, notscience, Shaddowez, Skybird,

reinoe

,

Majiffy

, Gameplay506

No, you managed to convince notscience, Skybird, reinoe and gamplay, as well as scum-Majiffy.

Which one took the most convincing? Which was the hardest sell to get them to join? Who had the most reservations?

As has already been pointed out, reinoe's bs claim out of nowhere is what gave the wagon wheels.

[House]

For all these protective PR claims, ain't nobody being protected.

Reinoe's broken ass claim makes the least sense of the 3.


VOTE: reinoe

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger.

Misrep is bad, yo.

I didn't say it, you did. What is being misrepresented?

Neighborhood make-up was being discussed there.

If you are going to quote me, then use the entire post since you like to twist shit.

[House]

You didn't even consider reinoe and his BLATANTLY overpowered role and you went lets be dumb and keep on tunneling yo.

There's time for reinoe tomorrow, assuming he lives through the night... considering kills haven't been blocked period, hell no I don't buy his b/s claim.

You think he a Godfather? Titus investigated him and called him town.

That or II SK

Cop town isn't conf town.

[House]

For all these protective PR claims, ain't nobody being protected.

Reinoe's broken ass claim makes the least sense of the 3.


VOTE: reinoe

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger.

Misrep is bad, yo.

I didn't say it, you did. What is being misrepresented?

Neighborhood make-up was being discussed there.

If you are going to quote me, then use the entire post since you like to twist shit.

Still applies. Your speculating that since the doc WAS the doc, reinoe is lying. Weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger, especially given the Titus-clear on reinoe.

You want to speculate reinoe=SK, then go ahead, but you need to give more/better reasons.

I already did.

0 blocked kills. From ANYBODY. Hard enough to but from a doc, but a role that can block 2 kills per night not getting SHIT and PRs being taken out left and right?

Use your head.

[House]

Vote: House

One time, at band camp...

I mean, one time, in this game I modded, a scum player replaced in and proceeded to get the white mage lynched.

Right, I was the only person that called bs on that retarded claim.

Whatevs.

OkaPoka, Town Doc

(LYNCH): House, notscience, Shaddowez, Skybird,

reinoe

,

Majiffy

, Gameplay506

No, you managed to convince notscience, Skybird, reinoe and gamplay, as well as scum-Majiffy.

Which one took the most convincing? Which was the hardest sell to get them to join? Who had the most reservations?

I didn't sell shit. I voted and stated my reasons. The only thing I did outside of that was tell gameplay to vote Oka and offered him Oreos... so I guess he was the hardest sell, lol.

[House]

Hey phone posting.

Can you show me the post where Mirhawk claimed tracker and insisted that he be protected? Because house's assertion that I should know whom the scum would kill is really shitty. I constantly expressed my frustration with the scum kills precisely because they got around all my protects. In fact I talked about it more than anyone.

Also House asserts that my claim was bs but still happily voted OKa yesterday. You can piss off with that bullshit.

X-shot doc claim was shitty too, and he was hammered by gameplay before he clarified on it.

What's your excuse?

[House]

Hey phone posting.

Can you show me the post where Mirhawk claimed tracker and insisted that he be protected? Because house's assertion that I should know whom the scum would kill is really shitty. I constantly expressed my frustration with the scum kills precisely because they got around all my protects. In fact I talked about it more than anyone.

Also House asserts that my claim was bs but still happily voted OKa yesterday. You can piss off with that bullshit.

X-shot doc claim was shitty too, and he was hammered by gameplay before he clarified on it.

What's your excuse?

Is this real life? Is that a real question? Are you honestly asking why I voted for OKa?

No, I'm asking for your excuse for your bs claim.

Are you going to make us put you at L-1 before you come clean too? Remember, gameplay likes to ninja hammer.

[House]

Hey phone posting.

Can you show me the post where Mirhawk claimed tracker and insisted that he be protected? Because house's assertion that I should know whom the scum would kill is really shitty. I constantly expressed my frustration with the scum kills precisely because they got around all my protects. In fact I talked about it more than anyone.

Also House asserts that my claim was bs but still happily voted OKa yesterday. You can piss off with that bullshit.

X-shot doc claim was shitty too, and he was hammered by gameplay before he clarified on it.

What's your excuse?

Is this real life? Is that a real question? Are you honestly asking why I voted for OKa?

No, I'm asking for your excuse for your bs claim.

Are you going to make us put you at L-1 before you come clean too? Remember, gameplay likes to ninja hammer.

Go ahead and put me at l-1. I'll self hammer.

So on top of making a bs claim, you're willing to deny town info.

That really clears your name!

[House]

I almost always self-hammer as town if I think the wagon on me is shit.

Know who else self-hammers? Scum. Don't self-hammer.

[House]

Can we please just ml me today instead of later

What's "ml"?

There's two scum in Pere/zmuffin/Majiffy

Look at how impossible it was to wagon them compAres to the ease of the tn5421 Lynch.

Also nice gambit Titus.

Yep.

If you're assuming a second scum out of that group, why PV over Muffin? Farside's reads early game were terrible, and I haven't seen enough from Muffin to make me think he's more than a null.

Hey phone posting.

Can you show me the post where Mirhawk claimed tracker and insisted that he be protected? Because house's assertion that I should know whom the scum would kill is really shitty. I constantly expressed my frustration with the scum kills precisely because they got around all my protects. In fact I talked about it more than anyone.

Also House asserts that my claim was bs but still happily voted OKa yesterday. You can piss off with that bullshit.

I have to agree that Reinoe can't be entirely to blame here - he also claimed that it's a 3-shot, so technically he could have used them all the first three nights (which wouldn't help the fact that him and Oka missed all three previous nights, but would explain N4).

If there is a godfather, I'm actually more tempted to believe it's Gameplay than reinoe.

D1 - Aegor lynch. Gameplay isn't on the wagon, but is sitting on Oka with Aero (confirmed scum) and RoyalApe/Skybird (being scum read by multiple people)
D2 - Aero lynch, his vote is sitting nicely right in the middle, after Titus stated he was lying about his result.
D3 - tn lynch. Gameplay's vote is on Mirhawk, the only other person voting Mirhawk was Majiffy.
D4 - Oka lynch. Quick hammers.

Also, all of these:

I think the Aero wagon is scum motivated. The scummiest on it so far are Shadow, T S O and NS.

Sk and one mafia team ok

VOTE: Psyche

Right now I am ok with both oka and psyche. Reinoe is ok too.

With this and my reads it leaves only Psyche out. So if Psyche ( maybe NS) isn't scum then it's Aero. And

VOTE: Psyche

Josh isn't a strong town player at all and even less a conf. town. Stop being shitty.

Wait why is he being wagoned?

Another mislynch

Ok so I vote.
I want night cus I need to read sorry

VOTE: Oka

It's probably the unpopular opinion since he's one of Titus' cop cleared, but I'm still going to do this for now, based on looking more into it:
VOTE: gameplay

I can actually buy that. gameplay's 180 & quickhammer really soured me on him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: gameplay506

[House]

reinoe's claim is still bs, but considering his history I am willing to write it off as a VI gambit despite his claims to the contrary.

gameplay's 180 on Oka was a hard scumtell.

[House]

As has already been pointed out, reinoe's bs claim out of nowhere is what gave the wagon wheels.

Show me the timeline of reinoe claim and the buildup of votes. Because the VC looks like Majiffy & gameplay are the "wheels" of which you speak.

gameplay was the quickhammer, Einstein.

[House]

Hey phone posting.

Can you show me the post where Mirhawk claimed tracker and insisted that he be protected? Because house's assertion that I should know whom the scum would kill is really shitty. I constantly expressed my frustration with the scum kills precisely because they got around all my protects. In fact I talked about it more than anyone.

Also House asserts that my claim was bs but still happily voted OKa yesterday. You can piss off with that bullshit.

Tell me reinoe, how do you think Mirhawk knew this:

@reinoe
Alina's not the serial killer.

What do you make of this:

Humor me for a moment and pretend that Oka targeted Josh night one.

Josh would be a bad or impossible target for all of those roles.

So what would that make Oka?

(I'll confess, I really didn't know what to make of it until after the fact... but I don't even have any completed games under my belt)

[House]

What do you make of this:

Humor me for a moment and pretend that Oka targeted Josh night one.

Josh would be a bad or impossible target for all of those roles.

So what would that make Oka?

(I'll confess, I really didn't know what to make of it until after the fact... but I don't even have any completed games under my belt)

Mir and I actually talked about this in the hood for a little bit, and came up with the idea of Watcher. If scum thought that Josh's claim may draw a cop or doctor, they could have seen who else targeted him. No other hints were dropped that made me think Mir was a tracker.

But Mir was hinting that he saw Oka visit Josh, is my point.

[House]

I almost always self-hammer as town if I think the wagon on me is shit.

that's really dumb

Yeah. You're next.

[House]

at least im not self-hammering

Yeah, there is that.

Maybe tree.

[House]

Omg what is this shit.

So you think I am godfather, huh?

I'd never pigeonhole you like that, buddy.

II SK is a possibility.

[House]

Lolz Sk? Pls.

Again i ask. Godfather and ii SK in a 21 person game with only 1 cop? The cop cant even be saved. Like if he cant be saved and there are ii roles then this is like shitty.
This is like so silly. Drop the shit house

Oh right. Well since you said to drop the shit...

But wait, there was more than just a cop, wasn't there?

I'm counting cop, bodyguard, tracker, doctor, and 2 masons.

Yeah... Your squirming is bad.

[House]

Oh wait, there's also reinoe's broken ass claim if you buy that bullshit, too.

[House]

And you are flailing pretty hard for two votes.

[House]

Loll this above was sad.

Like we are talking about why there arent ii roles. Does doc investigate? Nope. Does bodyguard investigate? Nope. Oh wait trackers investigate but then I have to be tracker immune not cop immune. Soo lets do this again:
Investigative roles:
1 tracker and 1 cop. If I was ii I had to be ii to either the tracker and the cop. And then to what conclusion do we get? We dont have ii roles. Gj me.
And let me ask you this. If there really were ii roles why did the cop get so nerfed? I mean he cant be doc protected nor saved by any way then why is he so nerfed? Huh. Ii roles and 1 cop who cant be saved seems really bad. So ye gj genius.

And then if there really were ii roles. Like am ii SK as you say.

Why did bith the SK and mafia rush to kill Titus then?

You see you are just posting shiat, more shiat and bigger shiat.

Why don't you tell us? We're you protecting your goon buddies? Did you not want cop conf townies? Did you just not like Titus?

Enlighten us!

Oh right, and how can one be tracker immune? Is that even possible?

Flail fail.

[House]

If you want me to answer you, answer me.

[House]

So tell me gameplay, why no interest in shaddowez?

Why are you only concerned about my piddly ass vote?

[House]

I didnt read. I didnt do shit. Srry

So you just quickhammered for nothing, then?

Cool.

And you wonder why I want you dead, lol.

[House]

I mean, it wouldn't have been quite so bad if it had been a quickhammer on a scum read, but you did it to one of your town reads.

Idk why anyone wouldn't find that scumtastic.

[House]

Town quickhammers a town read, Psyche?

Thanks, I'll put that in my notes for the next L-1 I see.

[House]

When a player acts scummy, I vote them. If somebody can explain away my reasons for voting gameplay, then I'll be happy to move my vote, but "lolcoptownlol" isn't an explanation when there are loopholes.

Instant 180 & quickhammer on a town read without giving an opportunity for Oka to come clean

Quickhammering to "read", then blatantly stating he didn't read the following day.

Once those are explained as non-scum behaviors, I'll unvote gameplay.

[House]

House, you have precisely one post to unvote a Cop inno, or you get my vote

i'm cool with this on policy
but gamewise i think he's just illogical town

And all I'm asking is for someone to explain why.

I'm not the kind of person that can be told, "do this because I say so" (and those who say that can piss off... pine), I have to understand why.

Yes, it makes me a headache, but it is who I am.

[House]

--Town--
Notscience (Too reckless and unhelpful to be scum)
--Scum--
House (Singularly unhelpful, anti-Town behavior, fixation on disproving Cop inno)

Too quote Randall: I ain't even gonna point out the irony, here.

[House]

Lazy phone posting is murder on grammar.

[House]

Looking forward to watching Pine's reads blow up.

[House]

You're refusing to acknowledge the forest, but for the trees.

What an interesting phrase. I wonder whether you used it specifically to grab my attention or if you just spoke off the top of your head.

Perhaps I can rephrase, such that you'll engage my allegation instead of splitting hairs: notscience was being moody and refusing to make things easier. You're being straight-up counter-productive and refusing to engage.

You've been nothing but confrontational towards me from the first word, and now you know how I respond to such tactics.

At this point, I'm prepared to lynch everyone not on my Town list in a by-the-numbers fashion

Nah, lynching me is a waste of time. Don't confuse annoying and stupid with scummy.

[House]

SK HAS to be one of the following players.
MuffinMan
Majiffy
Peregrine
notscience
Shaddowez
RoyalApe
.

Re-reading Mirhawk's Iso he was chainsaw defending OkaPoka pretty hard. I suspect that he tracked OkaPoka and knew.

Also I suspect mirhawk tracked a bunch of people and since the SK is killing every night the above are people he had not yet tracked.

Interestingly enough. The list that Mirhawk presents here is full of the scummiest people in the game.

--->Peregrine, RoyalApe (Skybird), notscience<---
Two scum in here.

Hey peoples, you know that one player that everyone keeps calling scum but never gets lynched, but then at the end of the game they turn out to be scum? That's PeregrineV. He keeps getting called scum but never gets lynched.

VOTE: PeregrineV

I looked over his ISO but not super close. Nothing really jumped out at me, could you point out his scumminess please?

[House]

I know somebody asked me a question but I was at work and phone viewing. Now that I'm home I can't find it. If someone had a question for me could you please just re-state it.

I looked over his ISO but not super close. Nothing really jumped out at me, could you point out his scumminess please?

[House]

See

I'm endearing about it

I really wanted to sheep you when I was ISOing your posts. Sucks that you're scum, though.

[House]

For example, you have no concerns about my suspicions on notscience or skybird.

Why would I ask about town-skybird or scum-notscience?

[House]

To be honest I'm kinda exhausted banging my head against the wall on PeregrineV. I've made case after case after case. Nobody refutes anything but his wagon never takes off.

Awesome, so I'll ISO you instead of him.

That's all you had to say, brah.

[House]

There's two scum in Pere/zmuffin/Majiffy

Look at how impossible it was to wagon them compAres to the ease of the tn5421 Lynch.

Also nice gambit Titus.

What was the reasoning behind this? Just difficulty of building a wagon on them?

[House]

why is PV scum other than being PV

explain it to me like you're make-believing i'm not reading the game

tl/dr

1)neighborhood process of elimination.

2)nobody had any reason to call Aeronaut town. I would accept someone calling him null, but not town.

3)Peregrine whines about "nobody listening to the dead" so why doesn't Pere do an analysis of what the dead players had to say? My analysis of what dead players had to say actually supports point 2: all the dead players were calling Aero scum or would be fine with Aero's lynch. Pere was calling Aero town.

4)Based on my limited experience of half a game with Pere in HarryPotter: prisoners of azkaban I have a meta reason. His play looks really town initially during the first day phase of the game, then he coasts on that cred by being generally useless. I noticed during HP:POA that Pere was making content filled posts in other areas of the forum and I was starting to change my read on him but then I subbed out of that game.

If this is the damning case against him, I'm unimpressed. You seriously think scum is going to throw themselves out there like that for another scum? If Aero had been town, I'd have bought this reasoning.

[House]

Sheeping shaddowez because I like his thought process (overall, not specifically the post above). He's my strongest town read.

VOTE: PerV

[House]

For example, you have no concerns about my suspicions on notscience or skybird.

Why would I ask about town-skybird or scum-notscience?

You have no concerns about why I'm calling your townread scum? Most people inquire about that sort of thing. I'm not saying we need to have a bare knuckle brawl of words that lasts page after page about it, but if someone has a completely opposite read than me I usually ask about it.

Yeah, but I'm more accepting of my stupidity.

[House]

Also, a bit trollish.

I am interested in the opinions of those whose judgment I trust.

[House]

Also, a bit trollish.

I am interested in the opinions of those whose judgment I trust.

Okay, that was worded really poorly.

What I was going for was that it's a matter of priority. If somebody is scum reading one of my town reads but not pushing for a lynch, I don't lend that opinion much credence.

When someone is scum reading one of my town reads and starts advocating a wagon, that piques my interest.

I can't blame you if you were offended by my previous post. Sorry.

[House]

Oh pere is at L-1. Should I hammer?

Also if its not him then pine/shadow might be it.

I'm not voting Shaddowez.

[House]

And you like how shadow jumped after the wagon got popular? Ye,no

I like how shaddowez can provide rationale for his reads. Timing is incidental if the logic is sound.

[House]

UNVOTE: PeregrineV
I'd like to at least hear what Marquis/Psyche have to say about Pere and the wagon in general.

That was... unexpected. I like.

[House]

OK, did a quick ISO and it's all good.

VOTE: PeregrineV

Lulz.

[House]

UNVOTE:

I'd like to hear their opinion, since reinoe doesn't anymore.

[House]

I think Pine is scum guys. Like really scum. I am not sure on pere seeing how it developed.

Welp a message to our lovely SK:
Dear mister SK,
We need your help. You see the game will soon be over if we dont lynch correctly today and if you kill town again we might not win. I mean nor town nor you could win. And you see we have no idea in who you could be. So please try killing scum tonight. If you it'll reward you greatly by probably winning. Use your own reads mister SK but I suggest Pine dies. Like stab that bitch several times till he becomes a bloody, meaty mess. Ty ty :3



Pedit: oh house are you the SK?

lolno.

What gives you that ridiculous idea? The fact I liked reinoe not rushing into a lynch he's been pushing all game? The fact I found his flip-flop lulworthy? The fact I wanted to follow through on his abandoned idea of not rushing the lynch?

Thrall me with your moonlogic.

[House]

Guys new plan: We start trolling, SK does all the work for us. How does it sound?

I'm trying, dammit!

[House]

Housy house I am not addression you !!!!!! So dont adress me kk?

But uh... you just did.

[/troll]

[House]

house at the very least purely on mafia theory you should not be voting gameplay/reinoe today
and when taking into account what went on this game they are most likely not groupscum because of majiffy's attempts to discredit the cop results

the hoods:

marquis

/

titus

/pv/

texcat

tn5421

/

aero

/

gameplay

/skybird

mirhawk

/

aegor

/

oka

/shadow

green for flipped town > blue for role info town > red for flipped scum

statistically speaking one of pv and shadow are guaranteed to be scum.
we should be lynching one of them today

and even ignoring the neighborhood distribution
pv is likely scum due to his attitude about lynching out of the neighborhood- a contrast between votes and previously stated actions, in which he said he was ok with hunting out of the neighborhood earlier but when it started to get serious, he completely backed off

also once we started to seriously consider pv as a lynch option he finally got fired up/active to fight off people accusing him, then faded away soon after
once i open up with a vote on him today, with reinoe following, he suddenly starts to be active again
that's a scum level of game involvement

Royal and Peregrine are tomorrow's candidates for lynching.

Reinoe > PV

I don't like Psyche's sudden drop in activity. PV has also become scarce.

EBWOP:

So has majiff and zMuff. They haven't posted at all this DP.

The day just started.

VOTE: Psyche

(marquis!note: notable because of the choice of vote, over pv who was also a consideration
also noting the psyche vote and my other crack!theory might have been off)

This is either a prod-dodge or a placeholder so I know I'm caught up.

I'll let you decide.

Willing to move my vote to PV in event of deadline. Would still prefer Mirhawk.

(marquis!note: he never did vote pv, or actually consider moving his vote again for that dayphase. majiffy's votes are pretty much almost all on town if i'm not mistaken. it seems likely that he would do that whole "i'd be willing to vote <partner> but i never actually will" thing)

^ not to mention majiffy's posts about pv are very limited- only interacted basically to say "no, vote tree/marquis", always downplaying the idea of a pv lynch in comparison to other lynches, and never directly gave any sort of read about pv while joking around with him, which signals a comfortable scumpartner interaction

also looking at pv's iso for interactions about/with majiffy and this is all that stood out:

come on pv, critical reading

*sigh*

Who are your other 3 scumreads besides Majiffy?

(redirecting)

Vote: Marquis

OK, Jiffy, let's see money where your mouth is.

(context note: this comes after pv hadn't addressed majiffy's push on me

at all

except for a

townread

on me on day 1)

^ This is awesome. TYVM.

Also, I'm already voting PerV.

[House]

Oh, forgot my unvote.


VOTE: PerV

[House]

Reinoe's case against perv is just terrible, but it's my hope that people are voting for perv for reasons other than his.

I agree, which is why I wouldn't vote for PerV based on reinoe's case. I have more faith in shaddowez, though.

[House]

SK HAS to be one of the following players.
MuffinMan
Majiffy
Peregrine
notscience
Shaddowez
RoyalApe
.

Re-reading Mirhawk's Iso he was chainsaw defending OkaPoka pretty hard. I suspect that he tracked OkaPoka and knew.

Also I suspect mirhawk tracked a bunch of people and since the SK is killing every night the above are people he had not yet tracked.

Interestingly enough. The list that Mirhawk presents here is full of the scummiest people in the game.

--->Peregrine, RoyalApe (Skybird), notscience<---
Two scum in here.

Hey peoples, you know that one player that everyone keeps calling scum but never gets lynched, but then at the end of the game they turn out to be scum? That's PeregrineV. He keeps getting called scum but never gets lynched.

VOTE: PeregrineV

When I flip scum, I'll nominate you for a Title change to

MENSA Scumhunter

.

[House]

I looked over his ISO but not super close. Nothing really jumped out at me, could you point out his scumminess please?

Sheeping shaddowez because I like his thought process (overall, not specifically the post above). He's my strongest town read.

VOTE: PerV

wat?

I flat out admit I'm at a loss for scum reads with all these theories flying around that are over my head.

Sheeping the towniest member I can find is the best I can hope for until something slaps me in the face as scumtastic.

[House]

Oh, forgot my unvote.


VOTE: PerV

Still only 2nd miracle.

If I'm supposed to understand what you are saying, I don't.

[House]

Oh, forgot my unvote.


VOTE: PerV

Still only 2nd miracle.

If I'm supposed to understand what you are saying, I don't.

You were already "convinced" to vote me. The unvote doesn't indicate you had doubt about the case on me, it's merely you trying to avoid looking as scummy when I flip town.

So, your revote doesn't count as a "Miracle revelation" about my alignment that scum needs to have in order to justify their vote.

idc how I look. I know my alignment.

reinoe had a good idea, then abandoned it. So I carried it out to give the wagon time before somebody ninja hammered, as I have seen happen before.

[House]

I'm kinda digging PerV's interactions.

Granted, I can't follow a lot of the theory, but this feels more like progress than I've seen for a while.

I'm conflicted on his alignment and that's not good enough for a vote at this stage, or so I hear.

I still think shaddowez is town, though.

UNVOTE:

[House]

The only flaw I see with this is if I am remembering correctly, most of D2 happened on the weekend. At least that is when the Aero wagon really took off. PV has mentioned already that he is LA on the weekends in #3 at the bottom of his posts.

Your not doing yourself any good. You're pretty much scheduled to be the next mislynch.

It's all good. Honestly, I'm in way over my head and town is much better off going into LyLo without me in the mix. But hey, if you don't jump in the deep end, how do you ever learn to swim?

I can totally relate to this, and I won't contribute to your ml.

[House]

If the "masons" haven't confirmed after ask this time had passed, why are they still alive?

There should have been a race between scum and town slaughtering them... scum for conf town and town for hesitance to confirm.

Yet here they are...

That's how it seems to me, anyway. Am I wrong?

[House]

ask = all

[House]

Otherwise I'm willing to ride their conf-town status to endgame.

Ummmm, they are

not

masons......

I was wondering what I missed when I read that.

[House]

If the "masons" haven't confirmed after ask this time had passed, why are they still alive?

There should have been a race between scum and town slaughtering them... scum for conf town and town for hesitance to confirm.

Yet here they are...

That's how it seems to me, anyway. Am I wrong?

They've both confirmed, multiple times. I quoted a few of them. It's sad that I know more about this thread than you, when I've been here for two days.

You know more about the fucking

game

than I do too, prick.

I was taking the statements I was reading about Psyche not confirming at face value, because

1) Psyche didn't contradict them, and
2) wtf is "confirming", anyway?

[House]

Pere - Do you not believe the mason claim? I'm going to guess not since you have the largest wagon right now, and your vote is the sole vote on one of the possible masons. Could you please explain why?

Well, where to start....

Why claim it now, when there is not benefit to town?

Plus, Marquis is scum as all get-out.

Psyche has not confirmed it. The post you think about quoting Pysche where they did confirm it is about as dodgy as all get-out.

<wall clip>

[House]

Yarp

This is why I want to kill it with fire

My gut says scum wouldn't admit to a fakeclaim tho

What is your opinion on Marquis?

[House]

why don't we talk about this in our mason qt marquis

troll them not me

Interesting post is interesting.

[House]

VOTE: Psyche

I kind of like my vote here.

[House]

After sleeping on it, I have to walk back my no ii's statement just a bit. I don't think we are dealing with a Godfather situation but I feel there's a good chance the SK is ii. My newb gut feeling is having two roles that are ii is a bit too favorable to the dark side.

Why do you think we have an ii sk?

[House]

Investigation immune?

Yes.

[House]

Further, SK hunting is classic scumplay

This is the second time I've seen somebody mention this, but nobody would tell me why before.

Why is it scummy to want to cut the night kills in half with one lynch? Wouldn't that be beneficial to town's win con?

This is the first game I've played with a sk in the set-up, so the tactics are new to me.

[House]

Cool beans. Thanks for that.

[House]

it made it a lot easier for me to avoid a mislynch

and increased the odds that i'd be nked

Did you want to be NK'ed?

If so, why?

[House]

notscience, in newb games you ask about lynching all liars. Why shouldn't our next two lynches be Psyche and Marquis?

LAL is bad, generally speaking. There are scenarios where lying is beneficial to town's win con.

That said, I can't figure out how this situation could possibly benefit town

[House]

House, what was your read on zMuffinMan before he replaced out?

I didn't have one. He's a big ol' pile of wtf to me.

[House]

^ not to mention majiffy's posts about pv are very limited- only interacted basically to say "no, vote tree/marquis", always downplaying the idea of a pv lynch in comparison to other lynches, and never directly gave any sort of read about pv while joking around with him, which signals a comfortable scumpartner interaction

Yeah, if he talks to me too much then I'll figure out he is scum.
Majiffy also had no interest in lynching Masons.

Vote: Marquis

OK, Jiffy, let's see money where your mouth is.

Get it past 4 votes and I'm in.

You won't vote your top scumread unless someone else runs them up to more than four votes for you?

Needs to be a viable wagon to consider leaving a viable wagon.
Or are you new here?

I went back and found this post by PV. I really think there's scum between Psyche and Marquis. Maybe not both, but definitely one. That's the only way the mason claim makes sense. I really want everyone to weigh in and tell everyone what they think of Psyche's responses since he outed the fake claim.

I think they both are, tbh.

Maybe not both team scum, but I don't think either is town.

[House]

I think Psyche is scum, and it wouldn't be too hard to nudge me over on PV.

Not seeing it for skybird, though. What am I missing, there?

[House]

PV was at L-1 and his lynch didn't happen, even when 75% of players were endorsing it. If a Townie had been in that position, he'd have been hammered.

I'm going to have to find the section where he was being wagoned and read up on it. I can't justify a lynch with, "if at first you don't succeed, try try again" mentality, and nobody is giving much of anything else.

[House]

That is not the justification I'm suggesting. I'm saying that with so much stated support, it fell apart easily

Yeah I get that, but that's saying we should lynch one person based on the interactions of other people.

I get why scum would fake supporting a lynch without follow through... but couldn't that be done on a townie to keep a suspicious player floating around?

[House]

Not saying that I don't like the wagon... I just don't know enough about his play to support it yet.

Going to ISO him and nail down a read. Gimme a bit.

[House]

Some things that jumped out at me about PereV's posts while reading up on his ISO:

Spoiler: quotes

Def not a great post but other tn podts merit z scumread more than that.

Treevote plox.

His other 4 posts following that were Tree is scum because he gambitted twice. Which, given 240, make them null, and almost confirms Tree as town.

Why does post 240 make tree/Marquis town?

OkaPoka's push on gameplay is horrible. I completely agree with Alina and Aeronaut in regards to that.

However

I think majiffy's push on tree is fabricated. It makes sense for an RVS-ending vote, but somehow we've made it to page twenty and he still acts relatively confident that tree's pretty bland couple of fakeclaim ploys make him scum. It would be okay if he were just egging it on for tactical reasons, but I just have no doubt reading his posts that he'd be happy if tree died right now.

At this point, I think he continues to tunnel on tree just because 1) it's easier to act through than it is to look soberly at what he's doing and what could be done, and 2) tree is really easy to push and is the sort of player likely to dig his own grave. And I'm asking his sheep about the wagon so I can see if anyone else is following suit, or if the

actual

scum carrying out this really cliched approach to D1 is one of those. It seems pretty likely to me that the tree wagon is just too shitty not to be astroturfed.

I know I'm fooling around a lot, but it's because I can, because it's harmless. But I didn't join the game for the captive audience.

Quite frankly tree dug his own grave by trying to gambit twice, ESPECIALLY and SPECIFICALLY his IC claim.

I disagree with you on your current majiffy read, weren't you following the flowchart and sheeping majiffy 10 pages ago anyway?
I've got him as relatively neutral, slightly leaning town.

What was his second gambit? The IC one seems like a joke to me.

I don't like how Oka has to be asked to give explanations for his reads. Saying "Psych is weird" is not an explanation. It's like you have opinions, but you're afraid to share them until you absolutely have to. Making it look like you have scumreads, without giving weight to them so that nobody can suspect you. Not to mention, you're saying we should kill people who claim PRs.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is an SK.

VOTE: OkaPoka

The bolded makes me think Aeronaut is scum who genuinely thinks Oka is scum also, but knows he's not group scum because Aero is.

I see it more like bet hedging. They are calling them scummy, but can't name partners yet so call them an SK.

Terrible. You don't have to have any idea on a scum's teammates to call them scum. Elyse was totes right.

OkaPoka's push on gameplay is horrible. I completely agree with Alina and Aeronaut in regards to that.

However

I think majiffy's push on tree is fabricated. It makes sense for an RVS-ending vote, but somehow we've made it to page twenty and he still acts relatively confident that tree's pretty bland couple of fakeclaim ploys make him scum. It would be okay if he were just egging it on for tactical reasons, but I just have no doubt reading his posts that he'd be happy if tree died right now.

At this point, I think he continues to tunnel on tree just because 1) it's easier to act through than it is to look soberly at what he's doing and what could be done, and 2) tree is really easy to push and is the sort of player likely to dig his own grave. And I'm asking his sheep about the wagon so I can see if anyone else is following suit, or if the

actual

scum carrying out this really cliched approach to D1 is one of those. It seems pretty likely to me that the tree wagon is just too shitty not to be astroturfed.

I know I'm fooling around a lot, but it's because I can, because it's harmless. But I didn't join the game for the captive audience.

Quite frankly tree dug his own grave by trying to gambit twice, ESPECIALLY and SPECIFICALLY his IC claim.

I disagree with you on your current majiffy read, weren't you following the flowchart and sheeping majiffy 10 pages ago anyway?
I've got him as relatively neutral, slightly leaning town.

What was his second gambit? The IC one seems like a joke to me.

I don't like how Oka has to be asked to give explanations for his reads. Saying "Psych is weird" is not an explanation. It's like you have opinions, but you're afraid to share them until you absolutely have to. Making it look like you have scumreads, without giving weight to them so that nobody can suspect you. Not to mention, you're saying we should kill people who claim PRs.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is an SK.

VOTE: OkaPoka

The bolded makes me think Aeronaut is scum who genuinely thinks Oka is scum also, but knows he's not group scum because Aero is.

Serial Killers generally tend to be careful not to get lynched, and careful trying to not get NKed by scum. Oka is giving us his "scumreads" without really giving reasoning. This way, it looks to the town like he's trying, but the scum won't target him because his claims have no weight.

SKs are also often bullet-proof, so don't really care about becoming the NK.
Town and scum often give no reasons for their scumreads, the hard part is sorting the town that does it from the scum that do it.

Rationalizing unsupported reads is bad. I don't see why town would do this.

If either Pscyhe or Marquis are scum with me, then pushing the fact they are fake masons is stupid scum-play and would be against my win-con. So think again.

Not necessarily, considering this is a multiball game.

VOTE: PeregrineV

[House]

Marquis

- Do you think PV is more likely to be scum or SK?

Would that be relevant?

[House]

VOTE: Pine

He's scum. I also think one of Psyche or Marquis is scum. PV is also scum.

You're saying that PV and possibly Psyche are scum, both of which have wagons forming on them already. Why would you vote for the third option, rather than voting someone with a wagon and just pushing for a future lynch?

Because after all the interaction with Pine I am fully convinced he is scum. I don't think anyone will listen if I don't vote for him.

Why do you think he's scum? Because he thinks you are? That's not a good road to travel.

Pine and shaddowez are my strongest town reads.

[House]

Gameplay506:

Dumb town

House:

Town

Marquis:

Prob scum

notscience:

Could be sold on scum; all that Majiffy buddying & sheeping was suspicious as hell.

PeregrineV:

Scum

Pine:

Town

Psyche:

Scum

reinoe:

Copfirm Town; still wary

Shaddowez:

Town

Skybird:

Thinking town, but (apparent) OMGUSish stance makes me nervous

[House]

Marquis

- Do you think PV is more likely to be scum or SK?

Would that be relevant?

It might provide insight into his other reads. If he thinks PV is the SK, I'd want to look at interactions between anyone else he lists as scum; on the other hand, if he lists PV as scum, we'd be able to look at PV's interactions with whoever else Marquis lists. Make sense?

I guess, still trying to wrap my head around how people say SK hunting is scummy, yet there's tons of SK hunting.

[House]

Because I have to decide if I'm going to use my doublevote or not to instahammer

What?

[House]

Because I have to decide if I'm going to use my doublevote or not to instahammer

If you have some sort of ability that allows you to double vote, I'd save it.

Pine strikes me as the type to likely hammer if PerV goes to L-1.

[House]

On the other hand, can scum have that ability? If not, it'd be a quick way to townfirm you.

[House]

pedit-

House you need to check your sarcasmdar

How can I be expected to know what is/isn't possible in this game? I'm always running across things that I never knew existed.

[House]

Multivoter roles exist

But I have not ever seen one in a normal game

Well since you were bullshitting about the ability, what's the real reason you're hesitating on PereV?

[House]

dunno, really

nervous about a selfhammer maybe?

Is that a statement or a question?

[House]

Little of both

Probably partially due to me always wanting to lynch PV

Fair enough.

[House]

Did I get replaced?

Not that I noticed.

[House]

Hard to say, especially at 70 mph (codriver, not me).

@Wake: Please update OP.

[House]

Pine was swearing he'd be NK'ed.

I wonder why he wasn't, I thought he was right.

[House]

Pine (2):

Gameplay506, notscience

Wow...

Now that is just freaky.

[House]

I'm down with a fake mason lynch.

Not a fan of killing someone who isn't around to defend themselves, though. Are we sure Marquis is town? He was looking pretty scummy pre-claim.

[House]

OP updated. Thank you.

Thanks. Any luck with a Psyche rep?

[House]

Nope. I don't understand it.

190+ pages... I do, lol.

[House]

Well, SK killed Gameplay because he or she was thinking Godfather

No idea why notscience was killed. Maybe scum looking for SK? Maybe a Townie unlikely to be protected? Maybe just a Townie they thought wouldn't eat a lynch?

I still want my Psyche lynch

7 left alive, probably 2 Mafia and 1 SK. If we mislynch and there are two Townie kills, Mafia wins

2 + 1 would be or best case scenario. We might get lucky if scum and SK target the same person tonight.

There have been theories about a 5 man scum team though, which would put it at 3 + 1.

Either way, we can't afford to mislynch.

[House]

In post 720, Majiffy stated that he thought that day's lynch should be either Aero, Psyche, or Tree. Would Majiffy be so bold as to list all his scum buddies in one post?

I would think a more likely option would be a "mislynch fodder, bus, SK hunting" combo.

[House]

Oh right, Aero flipped scum.

He was lynched before I joined.

[House]

In post 720, Majiffy stated that he thought that day's lynch should be either Aero, Psyche, or Tree. Would Majiffy be so bold as to list all his scum buddies in one post?

I would think a more likely option would be a "mislynch fodder, bus, SK hunting" combo.

This is a pretty reasonable point. The Skybird quote makes me wonder AGAIN whether I've got her wrong. If I were scum, I'd typically list one bus in a set of three, though that's hardly a general rule

Oh right, Aero flipped scum.

He was lynched before I joined.

Townslip? Or intentional Townslip?

What? Not knowing someone's alignment because they were already dead?

I hadn't interacted with him. I read a while back that he flipped scum, but it slipped my mind when I originally responded to Sky.

[House]

VOTE: house

townread decimated.

Why should you need to read anyone?

[House]

House, when you first replaced in you scum read Psyche in post 4156. Do you still read Psyche as scum?

Of course.

[House]

I’ve been looking at Majiffy and his interactions to try and see if there’s any slips to indicate his scum partners. He pushes for a Tree/Marquis lynch from the beginning of the game. (Post 219, 362) He also thinks Psyche is scum. He pushes for both of them well into the game. (post 3320, 3347) Marquis claimed masons with Psyche in post 3155.

Marquis explained claiming masons by saying he didn’t want to derail the PV wagon that was going at the time of the claim. (Psyche had 2 votes at that point.) I think the real explanation is he was trying to get Majiffy off their backs.

Does anyone have experience with a scum Majiffy? Does he normally bus his partners?

The problem I have with this is...

Why wouldn't Psyche instantly call it the fake mason claim for quick and easy exoneration, and why would Marquis offer his own head on a platter just to prevent derailing a wagon?

Scum team masons makes a lot more sense.

[House]

If you are town, stop setting up mislynches because we can't afford that shit anymore.

Majiffy being scum doesn't mean you are town. There's these things called distancing and busing. Perhaps you've heard of them?

Your early game bullshit didn't help you any, either. Then THIS?

[House]

Psyche slot will be modkilled in 48 hours if no replacement is found.

VC?

[House]

ughhh
why is it only a hubbub when it's me

Welcome back?

[House]

Vote: Psyche

[House]

House

- You obviously think Psyche is scummier than Marquis, but what do you think of Marquis?

I think they are both obvscum. It's the only way fake Masons hold together for so long, imho.

[House]

I don't even...

[House]

What if scum found the sk (or vice versa) and claimed Masons with them? They'd both have reasons to go along with the claim for town cred, though I don't get why it would be outed now.

I just can't picture town either extending such a risky offer which could mean their lynch if the other party denied the claim, or why town would confirm and risk the other person saying, "reaction test, you are scum!"

One way or the other, there is scum between the two.

[House]

that's a really dumb reaction test

I can't argue with that. I'm drowning in WIFOM.

[House]

SK HAS to be one of the following players.

MuffinMan

(PINE)

Majiffy

Peregrine

notscience

Shaddowez

RoyalApe

(SKYBIRD)

At the time Mirhawk believed Marquis/Psyche were masons so he didn't include them. Now that we know they're not masons.

Yes this is Information instead of Analysis but my analysis has been shit this game so maybe somebody else can do something with it.

House, why are you not interested in lynching any of the three above (Pine, Shaddowez, Skybird)?

Pine and shaddowez strike me as town. Skybird's play reminds me a lot of my own... misunderstood town struggling to adjust to site meta.

[House]

House, when you first replaced in you scum read Psyche in post 4156. Do you still read Psyche as scum?

My initial read of Psyche was pretty superficial; I was flying through the thread to catch up, and his minimalist posting style just really sat wrong with me. I wouldn't have maintained a scum read on him purely on that basis.

The fake masons claim kept him on my radar. I just don't know what to make of it.

[House]

SK HAS to be one of the following players.

MuffinMan

(PINE)

Majiffy

Peregrine

notscience

Shaddowez

RoyalApe

(SKYBIRD)

At the time Mirhawk believed Marquis/Psyche were masons so he didn't include them. Now that we know they're not masons.

Yes this is Information instead of Analysis but my analysis has been shit this game so maybe somebody else can do something with it.

House, why are you not interested in lynching any of the three above (Pine, Shaddowez, Skybird)?

I mean, I'm not saying I

wouldn't

vote for them (though I'd really rather not vote Skybird unless there's something legit scummy aside from theory)... it'd just be a concession to town that I might be wrong if I do.

[House]

From the game set-up post, Scum win when their numbers equal or exceed town. We have 7 people alive - 1 SK, assuming 2 scum, and 4 townies. If we mislynch and hit a townie, we will have 6 people alive - 1 SK, 2 scum and 3 townies. Then we have to hope that the SK hits a scum and scum pick the SK to have a chance at a win. If that is correct, town has to hit scum or SK today or we are pretty much done.

Another thing, Marquis has had two votes on him for over 24 hours. If he was town, do you think he'd still be alive?

Do you really think all the scum would dogpile on a lynch when there is still the possibility town could live past the night?

[House]

If they came in and made naked votes, yes it would be really obvious and not something they would do. I think it's been long enough that they could have come in and made some kind of post stating why they were voting for him and then voted him.

I guess, fuck idk.

I've had shit luck reading people in my first two games, so I don't really have a leg to stand on.

UNVOTE:

[House]

Wait...7-day day phase? No bueno

Mod - there have been several absences, V/LAs, and replacements pending. 7 days is not enough. Please extend the deadline. We're finally getting some life back in this.

I feel Marquis is a mistake at this time.

Psyche needs to be our lynch

Thank God, the voice of reason has returned.

I was starting to think I was the only one that felt it was a scum team.

VOTE: Psych

[House]

what a convenient thing to start thinking

House

- You obviously think Psyche is scummier than Marquis, but what do you think of Marquis?

I think they are both obvscum. It's the only way fake Masons hold together for so long, imho.

So convenient.

[House]

Deadline's supposed to be 11/9/14.

My apologies, guys. One week added.

Awesome!

[House]

You guys forgot to ask for a claim, too.

K. Claim, please.

[House]

VOTE: Pine

I just placed a naked vote on Pine. Discuss.

Considering your admitted terribad play, I don't see anything to discuss.

When you stop undermining yourself and get your head back in the game, get back to me.

[House]

All that being said, that leaves both Marquis and Psyche in my scum pile, and I'm willing to vote either.

I actually like my Marquis vote based on the post I made the other day. Does anyone else have any thoughts on that, btw?

this is also probably the strongest scumtell I know of
does anyone who cares (and actually knows) about mafia theory want to help put it in words for me

Ever find the words? I've been hoping this would be clarified.

[House]

You guys forgot to ask for a claim, too.

K. Claim, please.

This is awful.

Like you are one to criticize anybody.

[House]

You guys forgot to ask for a claim, too.

K. Claim, please.

This is awful.

Like you are one to criticize anybody.

Actually, I'm down with a massclaim. Because fuck it why not.

Never done one, care to describe it?

[House]

If town is down, I am.

Not interested in it unless there is a consensus, though

[House]

You do realize there are roles that become NK-bait or completely worthless once claimed, yes?

[House]

You do realize there are roles that become NK-bait or completely worthless once claimed, yes?

Possibly and those players will probably lie but town generally tell the truth or at least choose roles that make sense. Scum generally have much more incentive to lie because they'll have roles that won't make sense with the setup for townies to have access to. Basically the claims will be like a puzzle and townies will have roles that fit the puzzle. Scum will have pieces of the puzzle that don't make sense.

I've been mulling this offer, and your post makes no sense.

So, a townie with a PR that is detrimental if outed will likely lie.

Scum will likely lie.

So if town senses a fishy claim, they will suspect scum and run that player up, forcing them to claim their PR, effectively undermining their efforts.

Seems fifty shades of shitty. I'm against mass claim.

[House]

Offer should have been "over".

[House]

If town decides to massclaim, I will too... but I'm not a fan.

[House]

I'm going to sheep reinoe for now, and will post reasons why shortly

This should be interesting. Pine had been town as fuck.

[House]

Psyche, who do you feel is scum?

House, when you look at Pine's slot and all the posts from the people that have been in the game, do you still feel Pine is town? I was null-scum on zMuffinMan.

I didn't do a boat load of archive diving. Some here and there, but I didn't cover everybody

My read of Pine is based on Pine.

[House]

im pretty obvtown though

so was farside!

There we have it. Pine is town.

Spoiler:

Yes, I'm trolling.

[House]

You make some good points (I think?), but just wanted to point out that shadow has been in my town pile for a while.

Idk a ton of theory, I'm just going by his posts. Seems legit, to me.

[House]

Back when I replaced in, he seemed townier than pretty much everybody else & became my barometer while I caught up.

Granted, I've been coasting a bit lately due to work. I need to pay more attention to what has been going on. Kinda hard to get invested in a game that has been drowning in apathy since before I joined, but I'll get on it.

[House]

TBH I kinda wanna no-lynch just to let the scum kill each other. I'm also a little uncomfortable with anyone buddying me considering how wrong I've been all game.

UNVOTE:

Yes, you have been. And you are continuing to be wrong in all your blazing glory by not voting Psych.

[House]

@mod: V/LA until the 11th.

Noted. I'll start including all V/LAs in the VCs. -Wake

[House]

Yeah, Elyse is awesome.

[House]

I actually buy that post, Marquis.

I find that noteworthy because I had every intent to come in and votepark you today.

The only thing I'm not totally sold on is shadow scum. He's fine a lit of scum hunting... unless you are saying he's sk, maybe?

[House]

Fine a lit = done a lot

Damn...

[House]

I'm sold on Marquis being town now because reunite was pushing hard on leaving the fake masons for scum to sort.

Now he's dead, leaving Marquis in a more vulnerable mislynch position.

If mafia is still alive, the NK is a weird strat, but could possibly be a gambit to lie low and get town to focus on finding the sk as the last scum.

[House]

Lol... reinoe.