Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over

[droog]

VOTE: flubbernugget

pedit: VOTE: aneninen

[droog]

I went for the YOLO 1 draft but my plans were foiled.

2 was a pretty popular option lol.

dont remind me <<

so do you not like rvs?

[droog]

Not particularly, but why do you ask?

you were the first player to not rvs vote
wondered why

[droog]

Droog: why did you switch your rvs vote?

wagons are always better

[droog]

VOTE: alchemist

I'm genuinely fucking pissed he used 4 to ge

im pussed you use 2

[droog]

Not particularly, but why do you ask?

you were the first player to not rvs vote
wondered why

What was that vote right before yours?

i cant read appaently

[droog]

Not particularly, but why do you ask?

you were the first player to not rvs vote
wondered why

What was that vote right before yours?

Mine!

i like this unintentional order

[droog]

dino you looked at the old games right?
what choices did scum make in those?

[droog]

interesting that jail keeper is paired with tracker
do you guys have stats on which rankings scum have?
itd be very interesting if the jailkeeper picks were all scum priorities
which implies they desperately dont want a tracker
or really want jailkeeper

[droog]

I wouldn't put it past clever scum to double up and have the 3rd scum pick a separate number. It might be something I'd do out of audacity. Agree on everything else though.

I want to note however that there are definitely picks that scum would find very lucrative. Among them:
1-shot Vig
Roleblocker (just block everyone at the top of the draft)
Jailkeeper
Vengeful/Night3Vig

Since JK and RB are paired up with Tracker and Doc, not much alignment indicative in that. However, 1-shot Vig/1-shot PGO, along with Vengeful/Night3Vig are HIGHLY useful scum roles.

What this means is if you were near the top and you went for either of the above slots and you DIDN'T get them, there is likely scum above you. Be sure to factor this in.

I think you and I think of things differently. I had thought of taking vig to keep it out of scum hands. But on the other side if scum didn't get the first pick and I had first pick I'd think of choosing pGo because scum may kill me and I could kill them back.
Vengeful I imagine IAM when he was scum and targeted the most useful role for the town to die.

PGO is a terrible role because you can't predict for sure when you'll get targeted, so let's get that off the table. 1-shot vig has a much higher chance of hitting town than not.

I'd actually be totally cool with lynching a claimed vengeful if we all vote on who they shoot if they end up being town. Vengeful and vig by themselves are much more likely to hit town than not and if anything are a detriment to town.

When it comes to vig, if the vig agreed to shoot someone the crowd decides on, sure I'd be fine with keeping them alive.

Basically my point is, something like Cop is 10x more useful to town than any killing roles are, and I have a problem with any uncontrolled vigs because if they're scum it's a free pass to kill off a townie they happened to be 'scumreading'.

Out of curiosity with the research done did you or hayate look to see if the vig when town did shoot?
This is where I personally love to wifom scum with the role out there.
See the player picked vig or pGo may or may not be scum. You might say the player waits to shot for a night. Hypothetically he really picked pGo and may or may not activate the ability tonight.

What I have done proposing the above is, if the player is town, give the player an extra day to maybe live because the scum now have to decide is it worth shooting that player and although i don't practice it myself, more info can be had after more then one game day.
You have people that are dead and flipped (should be more then 1).
If the player is scum I forced him from holding back the shot for more analysis. PGo in scum hands is unpredictable though.


Droog: do you think an rvs wagon gives more information? If so what?

RVS tells me who likes wagons
Who's comfortable with sheeting
Which is more useful than not

[droog]

RVS tells me who likes wagons
Who's comfortable with sheeting
Which is more useful than not

Sheeping is null. I've seen it from town and scum. Zor's game you just played should tell you that.
Why do you think it's useful?

I'm not interested in predicting alignment based on sheeting
I'm interested in learning how the other players think
The more I know about a perso
The more I catch the lies

This is all that really matters for scumhunting

[droog]

So I don't really have a good history, everyone always reads me as scum.

Did I miss someone asking for your scum history or are you just throwing this out here?
Because if this is out of the blue then saying 'I'm always scumread' is sure a great way to get people off your back for a while.

it is also suge a great way to get people off your back for a while
if youre town

[droog]

nobody asked
does this indicate scum?

[droog]

why

[droog]

You know Siveure, if you're scum, sheeping me is a pretty good excuse to mislynch someone without accountability

thank you for providing the definition of sheepinc

[droog]

dino, are you scum
there's somethinga ubobt your potsts that reminds me of
johnny depp dancing around the deck of a capsizing ship
as if you're wandering from thought to thought
trying to make yourself seem town

[droog]

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.

scum have daytalk

[droog]

@davesaz: Also, as trust tells are banned, you might wanna read up to make sure and contact the mod and not us.

@farside: It's an extra lynch if we lynch town. Lynches are good, especially since leashing the vengeful essentially gives us a redo if they flip town. 2 town COULD be dead but we face that danger with any lynch.
And if the venge is scum then it's just a waste of time.

Here's my idea:

If we L-1 someone and they claim vengeful, we agree to lynch that person no matter what because leaving them alive puts them in the scum's hands and we don't want to get into a NK WIFOM discussion of why they're alive the next day. At that point, we start voting on who they should vengekill. If you're a town vengeful, you need to know that giving town discussion on kills is absolutely best for town.

@Alchemist: Pressure vote is meh, wgeurts could just not be online. Don't like it.

something about this screams scum to me
the helpful "trust tells are banned contact the mod"
the explication on setup theory
'wgeurts could just not be online'
your vengeful proposal

all things that scum would perform to say
'look at how much im helping town'

[droog]

something about this screams scum to me

all things that scum would perform to say
'look at how much im helping town'

do you disagree with my premise
(("scum do things to say 'look at how much im helping town"))

that im applying it to math dino in this instance

or that im scum reading him at all

[droog]

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.

scum have daytalk

That's true. However, what really disturbed me was eg. her 40. She tried to explained that those roles are not scummy. That may be true – but, she just ignored the possibility that towns could take those roles too just for hindering the scums.

i dont understand
surely not every possibility occurs to everyone
whats scummy about it?

[droog]

'too townish to be town'

no, thats not it
its that your behavior is filled with moments scum would love to point at
"im discussing the setup in a really good way that's definitely pro-town"
etc. i went through a few of those already

so to reverse my point:
in all your posts i havent seen anything that convinces me of town-motivation

[droog]

If I DON'T respond to people constantly and get input, I'm liable to forget things.

we're alike
when im not posting in the thread its hard for me to keep up

[droog]

Fair enough droog.

You should know that trying to point at ANYTHING I wrote and trying to tell you all it's town would be scummy in itself.

So would your read on me be more accurately described as null then if nothing convinces you I'm town so far?

In other news, it's kind of refreshing to see someone who doesn't just townread or scumread me solely for effort, haha.

mafiascum has such weird standards
this is the only website i play on where bolded is a common belief

[droog]

I have mixed feelings on the setup speculation. Past results don't necessarily predict the future, for several reasons.

I think hunting scum by behavior is much more accurate than hunting by setup.

And when people claim I think it would be a big mistake to read alignment solely from the claimed role. But general discussion of strategies can be useful at times. I can occasionally read scum from the options they leave out of strategy discussions.

Mathdino, was there anything specific which led you to respond the way you did to my comment regarding the possible trust tell?

Aneninen, is there any particular reason you mangle people's names? I have found it disconcerting.

Flubber's RVS is not out of character for him, IMO. I think there will be a lot more to read from his 2nd round of comments.

i agree, hence why i stepped out of setup speculation
((although i would be very interested still
to know if scum in other iterations of this setup
placed a high priority on that jailkeeper/tracker slot))

however it did get us out of rvs effectively

[droog]

Huh?

dino is saying that he talking about his own behavior as town would be scummy
unrelated to the game, i think this is only something taht ever happens on ms

on poin though, when i say scum like to say 'look at how pro-town i am'
i guess that's really imprecise of me
scum don't actually say 'im so pro-town go me'
but this is how they often project themselves
and how they arrange their posts

it's decent scumplay to only make actions that could be interpreted as townie

[droog]

anem, i like your style and i like your amy case
until dino does something that pings me more i'm going to sheep it

VOTE: amy fowler
now that i understand it i especially agree with you re: #40

[droog]

Anem suggested amy was scummy
For being concerned with which picks are bests for scum

Scum have day talk
I don't see why scum would ask the public
When they could discuss in private

[droog]

That's flybber's personality wgertus

I am not confident enough in this wagon.
If it hits l-1 I will Unvote. O

[droog]

i have thoughts about this but im too exhausted rn
people asked me some questions and
there were some good points raised re: why scum would ask setup theory
that i honestly hadnt considered

when i come back if i miss something please point me toward it

[droog]

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.

scum have daytalk

Y'know, it's funny you noticed that. I'm assuming that most games here don't have daytalk, or in any case I didn't know this one did. It usually takes scum to know of something that scum has. Do you play this setup a lot?

this one's backstory
in this game i made the same point you're making now
((though i was scum, i was bussing my partner))
since then i've paid more attention to daytalk
when you were accused of info phishing, easiest counterexample was knowing if scum could've asked partners or not

[droog]

[quote=animem]Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.[/quote]

That is in fact what Amy did
She admitted to giving reads on the players then posting
While she had the time

[droog]

Fake speculation? Adding to an ongoing discussion just to appear active?

not sure what the first means
honestly hadnt considered the latter
mostly because, as scum, thats something that would never occur to me

since amy is and was contributing to other discussions
this doesnt seem like a great scumtell regardless

[droog]

Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.

amy admitted such

While I can be assed to do this, let's make a small reads list,

right now of the people who have posted within the last hour

as of typing this line up.

[droog]

town read on alchemist, he seems pretty straightforward and probing
wgeurts is lightly pinging my scumdar. not like he did when i played him scum last though

[droog]

i was going to unvote amy because i dont have a strong scumread there
then i realized i dont have any stronger scumreads
now im not sure how i like the anem io

something about this post sets me off

Ah, anen responded.
Could you consider the possibility of her being scared as noob with her being vigilante or something. That's my paranoia, if we lynch her she could be a legit town vig. What draft was she again?

Okay, so on one hand, we have legit and somewhat helpful setup spec with regards to what roles scum tend to pick, what to look out for, what the plan is if someone claims vig/vengeful...
and on the other hand, we have wgeurts directly speculating the role of someone based on something they said.

MathDino, you've got a point.
Wgeurts, I posted before that I doubt that Amy would be town-Vig or town-Vengeful. As a noob, she'd hard-claim that or she wouldn't talk about that at all.

Sorry about that.
Moving right along, is there an actual case against Amy? Or we're shaking the trees to see what falls out? I'm not necessarily against that, but would like to know what the wagon is about.

I posted my case, eg. in 118...

I'm more concerned with how he attacked Ane for sheeping Dino on Amy, yet Droog openly admitted to sheeping someone on the wagon, and Wgeurts is calling him town. The double standard there doesn't sit well with me.

Hmmm... that's a good question.

i honestly dont know what
something about how each of these responses is agreeable
to the person anem's responding to

[droog]

I'll take a look at all three their ISO's when I have time.

why not dino's?
it would be very clever for scum
to unvote a wagon
and then say it's so fishy
it probably has scum on it

[droog]

how much is repurposing posts from [ongoing] allowed

[droog]

ive looked through flubber's games
he is just as "useless" in other town games

the one game he posted substance in, he was scum

[droog]

"but thats all meta
you can do better"
yeah yeah yeah ive heard it before

unless someone can ascribe scum motive
this wagon's not worth my time

[droog]

i remember asking anenimem some questions
and i like the way amy handled herself
so im going to brazenly sheep her

VOTE: vanenimem

((pre-emptively negating the 'buddying' accusations))

[droog]

anonymous does not have serious hackers anymore

[droog]

isnt my vote on anem?
it should be, i said i thought he was scummy

VOTE: anem

[droog]

Druuge, calling me scum because you think Amy is town and because you like her responds is bad logic. We can simply misread each other, that's very common, especially on Day1. By the way, I'm not voting for her right now.

this is definitely not it
i remember pointing out something i thought was scummy first
kind of forgot what it was but still

[droog]

Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.

amy admitted such

While I can be assed to do this, let's make a small reads list,

right now of the people who have posted within the last hour

as of typing this line up.

i was going to unvote amy because i dont have a strong scumread there
then i realized i dont have any stronger scumreads
now im not sure how i like the anem io

something about this post sets me off

Ah, anen responded.
Could you consider the possibility of her being scared as noob with her being vigilante or something. That's my paranoia, if we lynch her she could be a legit town vig. What draft was she again?

Okay, so on one hand, we have legit and somewhat helpful setup spec with regards to what roles scum tend to pick, what to look out for, what the plan is if someone claims vig/vengeful...
and on the other hand, we have wgeurts directly speculating the role of someone based on something they said.

MathDino, you've got a point.
Wgeurts, I posted before that I doubt that Amy would be town-Vig or town-Vengeful. As a noob, she'd hard-claim that or she wouldn't talk about that at all.

Sorry about that.
Moving right along, is there an actual case against Amy? Or we're shaking the trees to see what falls out? I'm not necessarily against that, but would like to know what the wagon is about.

I posted my case, eg. in 118...

I'm more concerned with how he attacked Ane for sheeping Dino on Amy, yet Droog openly admitted to sheeping someone on the wagon, and Wgeurts is calling him town. The double standard there doesn't sit well with me.

Hmmm... that's a good question.

i honestly dont know what
something about how each of these responses is agreeable
to the person anem's responding to

ok my premise is wrong i didnt ask anything
i just stated vague enimgatic things
ill fix that but the above is also in my basis for voting

[droog]

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.

scum have daytalk

That's true. However, what really disturbed me was eg. her 40. She tried to explained that those roles are not scummy. That may be true – but, she just ignored the possibility that towns could take those roles too just for hindering the scums.

rereading this i have no idea what you mean
amy proposes that certain roles aren't scummy choices
to which you object because... town could choose those not-scummy roles?

[droog]

something about mathdino is screaming alarm bells ni my head
and i have no idea what

[droog]

Did he join any wagon? Did you check all his scum games?
Also he was town in a game I played. Most of the time he lurked like a fiend but towards the end tried to figure things out. He did not jump from wagon to wagon and that game a player played his town meta and was scum that game. One of the reasons I no longer take stock in meta.

if you dont take stock in meta, why are you asking?
i did not look at all of flubber's scum games
the vast majority were town games

anyways, is...there something scummy about the wagon switching?
i could imagine scum motive
but i dont see anyone making a case that flubber's behavior is motivated by scum motive

[droog]

i thikn the point is to give town something to talk about
there's no normal RVS with a public draft

[droog]

also
wont it look odd
if some of the highest-ranked drafters
are conspicuously not killed

[droog]

im still rooting for an anem compromise lynch

[droog]

also i didnt say hi before that was rude of me
hey adrien

[droog]

other games slowed so i will finally get to this tonight/tomorrow

[droog]

I want to scumread you for misrepping me in like everything, but that doesn't have much scum motivation, so I'm still going with derptown with a couple projection issues. Don't read someone based off playstyle, davesaz. Especially don't read someone by comparing to yourself as town/scum.

oh man
i havent looked through this argument too carefully
and will reread tonight

but 'your argument is bad but you're still probably town'
is a classic scum defense
it is the best way to neutralize an attack on you without appearing scummy yourself

[droog]

he only made 2 statements

[droog]

unless you propose to know the truth
of whether dino is really looking forward to those contributions

[droog]

are you admitting your avatar's not badass

[droog]

ok enough of that monkey business

ive noticed a pattern of players writing big catch-up posts
and immediately being read as town for it
so im going to make my catch-up post while showing
that catch-up posts are not inherently town

((not by example thoug))

[droog]

UNVOTE: whoever

VOTE: Flubbernugget
"genuinely fucking pissed"
The 'genuinely' isn't really necessary if you're pissed, ya know.

this was a really odd rvs vote
dino what's going on

[droog]

So, my opinion in terms of numbers:

1. Scum are probably not going to double up so we can assume that there is one scum per number.

2. Aside from that number choices are going to be pretty WIFOMy and player dependent.

And

Vote: Flubbernugget

The anger feels fake to me.

I wouldn't put it past clever scum to double up and have the 3rd scum pick a separate number. It might be something I'd do out of audacity. Agree on everything else though.

i bolded the part of hayate's comment dino disagrees with
something about that really doest justify 'agree on everything else'
also, depending on how dino chooses to reinvent the past

was that earlier flubber vote serious?
id be really curious as to why/not

[droog]

hayate put a lot of effort into her early posts
bit aggressive on the question front in rvs

but for now im interpreting that as town

[droog]

ebowp

dino you cant keep tagging suspicions on you as town-motivated
it only works the first time

[droog]

Also, sheeping math

VOTE: amy farrah fowler

siv and dino arent both scum

[droog]

Druuge, 8, post-editing a

random vote is just like la wow!

Far Side of the Moon asked the same in 16.
Druuge, 20, Romitelli's vote is

pretty much null

, trust me, he has damm good reasons for that. ^_^
MathDino's 30: Vigilante is

not essentially scum-role.

The other three roles are scummy indeed. Also, see my answer for Amy's post below!
I think you've misread the previous games, MathDino, in 32.
Hayate's analysis in 34 seems to be good about the past games. I agree:

it's unlikely that they went for doubling a number.

I can add another game which was abandoned: The scums picked Vigilante, Tracker (instead of Jailkeeper) and ? (the third scum was the last player in the draft.)
Amy, 40 –

it's strange that you tried to explain the town-benefit

of those roles and you didn't even mentioned the possibility that a town might choose a role just to f-ck the scums. That's also possible.
Mathdino, 41,

you're wrong about a Vig.

Even if the town decides whom to shoot, the scums can still Roleblock/Jail the Vig and poof, the whole use of that PR is gone.
Amy, 48, and that was off-phased about scums picking numbers. That topic had been discussed ages ago and you posted since that part without mentioning it.

this post looks a lot more impressive than it is

bolded and underlined

hard comments

bolded

soft comments

the only hard comments are about setup
everything else is really soft
i.e. 'pretty much null'

[droog]

Alchemystique, 51, let's assume that you're saying the truth. According to the site rules I'm not explaining why. Your vote in 62 – why exactly?
Venrob, 52, you're wrong about those semi-high numbers.

{hard comment about setup}

Don't you remember our abandoned game? Most of the players chose far-out numbers and there were only five players who doubled/multipled up. Right now I have the same draft with 1 as I had there with 14.
Farpointside, 55, agreed, a Day1 Vigshot is not too good

[hard comment about setup]

unless someone does something blatantly scummy and avoids lynch or there's a player who's detrimental to the game. (Though I, personally, disagree with the latter one for the same reason as I disagree with Policy Lynches.)
MathDino, 63, why is Druuge incredibly town? Why are 37 and 61 so town?
Amy, 65 so, you dislike discussing theories and you've still done that. Hmmmmmm... and in 67 I think you misrepresented Venrob.

[soft comment about the game=]

Siveure DitTrikijp, 77 oh finally, someone tries to stop that rubbish speculation about the Vigs and I-don't-remember-what's. Good sheep, see below!

{no clue}

MathDino, 85, good idea, stop that discussion. (And if anyone wonders why I discussed about the possible roles in that abandoned game, (1) something important was revealed and (2) I was a Neighbourizer there.)

{more setup blah blah}

Davesaz, 86, I understand your concerns, but Feliz (our kitty) arrived to our place 3 weeks ago or so, that'swhy you won't find that joke in earlier games. Post-edit: I can see that you realized the same thing in 96.

{: 3 }

By the way, do you want a trust tell? Here it comes!
Spoiler:

Farside, 92, what was the point of that post? I mean, the "whom would you lynch if you were a Vengeful" thing.

{wishy wishy wishy washy]

You Have Been Pigeoned!Hint: you can see this pigeon ONLY IF I'm town, OR if I'm scum. Trust me, this tell works all the time![/img]Farside, 92, what was the point of that post? I mean, the "whom would you lynch if you were a Vengeful" thing.

round 2

[droog]

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.

ewwwwwwwwwww
was this really the basis for the amy case
did i really sheep this
this is such a shallow basis for that vote

do i even call this a strong statement or a hard statement?
what does 'most probably scum' mean

[droog]

Statements about setup are more objective arguments, while statements about alignment and scumhunting are far more objective.

{assuming this is a typo or else your upoint falls completely)

i could come up with some shitty example about how wrong this is
like, love is subjective and economics is objective
therefore, its natural to have stronger opinions on economics than love, right?
but , uh

why does anem get a pass dino

[droog]

anem, i like your style and i like your amy case
until dino does something that pings me more i'm going to sheep it

VOTE: amy fowler
now that i understand it i especially agree with you re: #40

im disagreeing with myself now
i can kind of see some scummy things about amy but
that case was really weak

[droog]

On the 'helpful townie' thing, I basically need to be involved and responding to people to stay on top of it. Side effect of extraversion. If I DON'T respond to people constantly and get input, I'm liable to forget things.

I was asking if your response to me was intended to be "helpful". I think your later reply was a "no" to this question.

Pedit: I have seen scum play which was blatantly pro-town on other sites, and have scum read people for doing it here. I was even correct on this point in the first newbie game I replaced into, but didn't follow through on it strongly enough. So "look at all the town stuff I'm doing" can indeed be scummy.

Oh, look, I'm agreeing with someone. The horror!

this post looks really town-motivated

[droog]

Now, I'm not reading based on a phrase. But this got me to thinking. wgeurts in that game was an extreme tunneler, his confidence in his scumreads being off the charts. Town wgeurts, on the other hand, I've seen as far more careful, uses qualifiers, fencesits a bit and uses slightly wishy-washy wording. I don't like this. I'll get back on the Amy wagon if necessary but I think my vote's better served here.

UNVOTE: Amy
VOTE: wgeurts

Also, the above post is nowhere near strong enough or inconsistent with town to warrant that level of confidence.

I did a quick search, Amy's not experienced, let's take that off the table.

I understand your doubt on the wgeurts thing, so I'll just go ahead and page

Alchemist

droog

uote]

no
i dont agree with your meta but wont go into it
wgeurts was a noob then and now he's not
his play is getting bebtter
its not worth comprang

...

i think that exercise had as much value
as when my high school librarians tried to teach us about search engins

[droog]

Spoiler: Venrob

Ok, so i've done a bit of a skim read so far. I am SOOO pissed and surprised that 4 got the top pick. I mean 1235 all got doubled up, but 4 of all numbers got top.... 4 is always the one that everyone chooses.

Given I hav e a history with this setup... and not a good one... I just hope this game doesn't go to shit for town like it always does.

For reference purposes, Open 472: Town of Lottery Addicts is the only game i have completed of this setup. I also failed to mod it once, and played a game which got abandoned once. Bad luck. In Open 472, I was one of the 4 people who picked the number 4- and had second to last place. I still didn't end up VT though- I got vengeful. But town didn't believe my roleclaim, and believed scum at lylo.... So hopefully I don't make it to lylo, because whenever I do town loses. Unless I become confirmed town before lylo, then I'm fine with living

Anyway, for rvs vote.... why not VOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp


Also for number theory, I have found that picking a semi-high number generally results in high draft order, because everyone doubles up below you. That is why I picked a high number, and I presume same goes for siv.

Either way, I hope this game doesn't go to shit because of me like every game I play does.

No, I'm saying that if the town decides to lynch me even though I am town, I'd rather it not be at LYLO.

Reads? Not really. I don't get reads this early into Day 1. If you wish to confirm that, you can check out my other games- that's what I pretty much always say regardless of alignment.
And if I seem defensive, please note my 1 town win and 6 town losses.

I have played scum, 2 wins 3 losses as scum compared to 1 win 6 losses as town. My first game here was a scum game, and it got to lylo (2 scum 3 town.) The only reason I won is that one of the townies had a scum read on the other 2 and a town read on me and my partner. If not for that, I would have been lynched really early. I think everyone was giving me benefit of the noob considering it was my first game on-site. I played really badly... but still won.

In my other game i won as scum, I got dayvigged on day 1. My partner, solo, went on to win the game.

So I don't really have any great scum accomplishments. And my 1 town win was a masons and mafia setup, which honestly seems easy to win for town considering the mafia kept killing themselves XD

So I don't really have a good history, everyone always reads me as scum.

If you want to look for yourself, all completed games are on my wiki.

UNVOTE:
Still had an rvs vote out.

OK, so i've caught up a bit... and honestly the only thing I'm getting as far as reads is mathdino seems townie to me. I don't have the time right now to make a big post or anysuch or to read into peoples posts and analyze, but I will be back later today for a better read of the game. Just got up, haven't even had breakfast yet but wanted to make a post while I had a minute.

So we have:
Games go to shit when you're in them
Everyone reads you scum
You have a terrible record
Don't have time right now

We're gonna need to see a lot more than a bunch of AtE, or this is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

really like this
dave criticizes other players without snarky accusations
or subtle jabs at how they're scummy for saying stupdi shit

town read on dave

[droog]

Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.

That is in fact what Amy did
She admitted to giving reads on the players then posting
While she had the time

this is still scummy on anem's part
it never got explaind right

[droog]

Okay. The real reason my wgeurts vote is scummy is because the amy unvote only happened then. From like #170 to my unvote was basically this

i was going to unvote amy because i dont have a strong scumread there
then i realized i dont have any stronger scumreads

And yeah, my townread on dave is because he hasn't done any obvious town stuff. He has very little content, but he is not lurking at all. Or maybe it's the opposite, that he's lurking but still producing some content? Idk. It's kinda gut, and kindof the terms I'm using being so ill-defined.

Pedit: aw noooo... Don't tell me that I said something I thought was innocuous but the whole game takes as a scumslip again. Yuck.

thhis post is exactly the kind of tortured logic
only a townie could come up with

[droog]

@Ankamius, you may recall that

I don't like naked votes.

That's okay, because I posted the meat of why I think he's scum

on the last page.

Siveure trying to discredit Mathdino leaving the wagon is slimy as hell. Nothing about his ISO really gives me any good iggly wigglies either.

this vote is barely decent
running around the streets with buttcheeks a-flapping
scaring parents with questions from the kids like
"mommy, whats that mans snake doing"

but no, its not te

chnically n

aked

[droog]

Can you provide other examples of panicking and premature claiming please? I do believe this is the lynch wagon; I'm more confident in this than wgeurts and Amy. Amy's wagon gave me heebeejeebies and my argument on wgeurts was legitimately just meta, no idea wtf happened there.

Alchemist's behaviour is tied very much to his interaction with others. As such, I want a flip before I consider lynching a PR. His being a PR won't stop me from seriously considering him tomorrow if you flip town.

Scum is gonna work harder than town to figure out the breadcrumb, Siveure. Indicating that you've breadcrumbing it is tantamount to outing your pick to scum more than town. Just go ahead and say it.

logic is your hobby right dino
oh, sorry, thats a thought clearly unrelated to anything happening in this post

reminds me

VOTE: mathdino

[droog]

Druuge,

calling me scum because you think Amy is town and because you like her responds is bad logic.

We can simply misread each other, that's very common, especially on Day1. By the way, I'm not voting for her right now.

your absolutely right
good thing i didnt

well, you know how the joke goes

[droog]

Also, let's see those wagons.
+ = the player was/is on that particular wagon
– = the player was/is away
0 = that player was/is wagoned
The order of the signs: Amy, Wgeurts, Siveure. Draft is in brackets.

Alchemist21 (4) : – + +
davesaz (6) : – + +
Ankamius (8) : – – +
Siveure DtTrikyp (13) : + + 0
Venrob (15) : – – +
Aneninen (1) : + – –
Romitelli (1) : – – – (very few posts from this slot)
Amy Farrah Fowler (3) : 0 – –
farside22 (3) : – – –
Mathdino (5) : + + +
wgeurts (5) : – 0 +
Flubbernugget (2) : + + –
Adrien C (2) : – – – (very few posts from this slot)
droog (2) : + – –

This might tell us a couple of things.
First of all, I may be wrong about Amy. If she were scum she could have jumped on any of the wagons to save her a$$. That didn't happen.
If Siveure is scum (note that he was on both wagons) we should pay attention to Flubber too who was on the first two wagons.
Farside may be town, she was uninterested in all of the wagons. Unsure about Romitelli and AdrienC because of too little content.
Alchemystique and Davesaz were doing the same. Mathdino is the only player who was on all of the wagons, though if my memories are correct he had left the Amy-wagon before it started to dissolve. I'm not sure what to think about this phenomenon (away from Amy, on for Wgeurts and Siveure) but there might be at least one but maximum two scums among these three players if Siveure flips town. Although, I must admit that this pattern might be a coincidence too.
Another interesting thing: there were no players who were on both the Amy and Siveure wagons but away from the Wgeurts wagon. I don't know whether it is significant.

Post-edit: Romitelli is auto-FoS in my eyes because of his draft but I apart from that he's null: mere 6 posts and 4 of those are contentless. And I don't have problems with funny names, I'm using some on others too. ^_^

((you messed my name up, you forgot the 'e'))

once i understood this post i liked the effort involved
definitely dont agree with the logic

farside being off all 3 major wagons doesnt imply town
scum are almost never going to put all players on each wagon

[droog]

Droog: why are you voting here for amy especially as Dino is voting for her as well? You think dino maybe scum for reason's I disagree with and he voted his scum buddy?

i didnt even realize someone'd voted for me
not sure what your point is i unvoted amy

no clue how to answer your questions otherwise
also dino's casted enough votes where id be surprised if one of them ahdnt hit scum

[droog]

Did he join any wagon? Did you check all his scum games?
Also he was town in a game I played. Most of the time he lurked like a fiend but towards the end tried to figure things out. He did not jump from wagon to wagon and that game a player played his town meta and was scum that game. One of the reasons I no longer take stock in meta.

i didnt do an exhaustive analysis
i just dicked around in a few of his closed games

sounds like you agree with me though so
go team?

[droog]

Wait. Actually put some thought into the alchemist case and lol. That is actually scummy by siv's narrow definition of scummy.

VOTE: alchemist

please explain

dont ignore this post in the mas ofposts im making

]/

alchemist is on efo my town reads right now

[droog]

My top three scum reads are:
Siv: His lurking style doesn't go down well with me, the worst is it seems as if he is doing it intentionally. I also think that this wagon may be actually hitting scum as if you look it seems to have been given a lot more resistance than mine and amy's. I'm going to meta cov as flubbers made some points on it and that could lead to siv or flubber looking scum.
Romitelli: Stop lurking, lurking would be a great strategy for scum in the case that siv is town. Scum could just sit back and relax and let the town hang themselves. They also get an added bonus of making few associative tells which benefits scum late game, we really need discussion to stop scum playing like this. I'm going to meta him as well to see how he plays as scum/town.
TheAdrien: Same reasons as Romi, meta will also happen on him.

There may be a few meta cases popping up from me later. I don't think flubber is scum as his play wouldn't make sense if it were. I need to relook the Alchemist case so it'd be great if someone could some it up.

i disagree with all your reads:

1) siv is posting content when he does post
its not regular lurking

2) if all your cases are based on lurking you're not reading the people who are posting
3) ^

[droog]

wgeurts

Flubbernugget
droog
davesaz
Alchemist21
Ankamius
Amy Farrah Fowler

Siveure DtTrikyp

Aneninen
Romitelli
TheAdrienC
Mathdino

farside22

Venrob

Those that aren't bolded post your top 3 scum reads and provide reasons.

mathdino

-- he's all over the place, but never the right places

aneninen

-- awful cases that look better than they are

ankamius

-- i needed to pad this out

[droog]

Druuge. Multiple issues.

If Amy happens to be scum, he must have done a Chainsaw.

In his opinion I was tunnelling Amy yet he has been doing the same to me, also thinks that I'm a good "compromise lynch" in 467, which is weird. Also, a couple of disturbing things like "'your argument is bad but you're still probably town' is a classic scum defense" in 498, I'm sure that the thing he asked in 370 had already been explained by me before... however, there are caveats, like: he posted something similar in 371 that I did above. Plus, he's been away from most wagons. Lean scum.

"if amy happens to be scum, droog is scum"
"because if amy is scum, droog chainsawed amy"
"droog chainsawed amy because droog is scum"

you just gave a reason for suspecting me that is circular

[droog]

actually

Venrob.

Less content than it appears. Focuses on too few players.

Unsorted–lean scum

.

MathDino.

What an amount of effort is made by him! He's examining everything, pays attention to everyone and tries to lead the town. I would say that he's probably town... but I've got a bad intuition about him. If he's scum he won't be the first one who falls, I'm sure. I don't think he's be a good lynch Today anyway so let's see how the game goes on later.

Probably town (logic) / probably scum

(weak intuition plus he has been on all of the three wagons so far).

Siveure.

Am I the only one who thinks that his crumb which was:

"Also @ anyone who metas me and has a question they really shouldn't ask me, the answer is either "Yes" or "No", depending on what you ask. And this is probably way too blatant."

– could mean anything? That "Yes" or "No" is a possible answer for many things. He said that he would lurk until the wagon would disappear (425) but it hasn't happened. Worried about the stall of the game in 480 and that didn't happen in the abandoned game I met him. I didn't like 503 either, Doc

could

be chosen by the first three players in the draft.

Lean scum–probably scum.

Davesaz.

Null,

and I'm not talking about him for the same reason as he's not talking about me. Sorry.

Amy.

My

former scumread. But,

her later posts may have been town-flails and "mirror-scumreading" someone is more likely a newbtown-tell than a scum-tell. Therefore, lean town. (We should keep in mind that the scums have daytalk and she may have been coached there if she's scum.)

Druuge.

Multiple issues. If Amy happens to be scum, he must have done a Chainsaw. In his opinion I was tunnelling Amy yet he has been doing the same to me, also thinks that I'm a good "compromise lynch" in 467, which is weird. Also, a couple of disturbing things like "'your argument is bad but you're still probably town' is a classic scum defense" in 498, I'm sure that the thing he asked in 370 had already been explained by me before... however, there are caveats, like: he posted something similar in 371 that I did above. Plus, he's been away from most wagons.

Lean scum.

Alchemiss.

Something is fishy here. By ISO-ing I can see less content than I remembered. 308 and nearby is strange (why is it a problem that Siveure has a townread on Dave?), 315 is very strange in its context. He has been on 2 of the major wagons.

Lean scum.

Ankamius.

Less content than it appears and there are no new things appearing in his reads.

Unsorted–lean scum

Farside.

I had a townread on her before and it hasn't changed. Probably town.

AdrienC.

Very little content and he's posting about very few things.

Unsorted.

FlubberNugget.

I've seen the same Flubber in the abandoned game with the same setup. I kept scumreading him there as far as I can remember and it turned out the he was town. Therefore, lean town. (His vote-moving is a thing we should remember later, although.)

Romitelli.

Null in itself

(although, picking 1 is an Auto-FoS, as I posted that before). What is more interesting in him is the fact that some of the players featured him in their Top3 list, as far as I can remember, Alchemist, Siveure, Ankamius... maybe someone should summarize those scumreads, shouldn't they?

post-edit

...it's especially interesting because he's leaving the game now!

Wgeurts.

I still can't see too many scummy things here. Probably to

way to omany scum reads

[droog]

So just to be clear, you're townreading:

after my reread

town:
alchemist
wgeurts
siv
amy

null:

venrob
farside
flubber


scum
dino
ankamius
aninemen

[droog]

i know it had amy as a townread
but the wording totally leaves anem open to saying
'jk i decided amy was scummy again'

[droog]

deadline's in 4 days so im holding on dino for a bit

[droog]

wisdom?

[droog]

That's a lot of posts Droog, please don't go and do a Wisdom.

so yo'ure tarring me with someone who was scum because i posted a lot
ok

[droog]

The first thing that struck me as kind of odd was that droog rvs votes someone, and then pedits to vote aneninen, most likely to build a wagon on top of the previous vote. Nothing strange in that right? Wrong, later on page 1 droog questions Romitelli about not liking rvs, stating that he had not participated. Still nothing odd, right? Well how about droog pedit to vote a wagon on aneninen was building on Romitellis rvs vote. The words and actions aren’t adding up here. You mention catching people in lies later on, what do you usually do with liars? I do however, agree with your Math read though, fake as fuck. Telling a guy to notify a mod about a trust tell is horrible.

huh?

droog rvs votes someone, and then pedits to vote aneninen,

droog questions Romitelli about not liking rvs

droog pedit to vote a wagon on aneninen was building on Romitellis rvs vote.

huh????

you dont have a lie
you dont even have a contradiction
you say i did X (i did)
you say i did Y (i did), which doesn't contradict X
you say i did X (i did) which contradicts the last statement!


unless you mean i forgot romi was the one i was sheeping
and then asked him why he wasnt voting
in which case
find something better to talk about

[droog]

christ
you have 25 pages of discussion to read through
i have as much content as almost anyone
and you suspect me for my first two posts?

[droog]

fair enough

[droog]

not the flavor text though : )

[droog]

dino has been on several wagons
yet in none of them does he have any conviction or sound reasoning

maybe bad reasoning causes him to switch frequently
but why has he looked at so many cases without finding something good?

...you just did it again. "Doing [x] would be pretty useful if you were scum." Okay, so what?

UNVOTE: Flubber
VOTE: Amy

can you explain dino's vote?
i cant.

Now, I'm not reading based on a phrase. But this got me to thinking. wgeurts in that game was an extreme tunneler, his confidence in his scumreads being off the charts. Town wgeurts, on the other hand, I've seen as far more careful, uses qualifiers, fencesits a bit and uses slightly wishy-washy wording. I don't like this. I'll get back on the Amy wagon if necessary but I think my vote's better served here.

UNVOTE: Amy
VOTE: wgeurts

Also, the above post is nowhere near strong enough or inconsistent with town to warrant that level of confidence.

weird meta shit

Any special reason you didn't act on this idea of pressuring people? I find it to be very passive, and the one liners since then are even worse.
VOTE: wgeurts

UNVOTE: amy farrah fowler

Really not feeling this wagon any more.

I don't think conflicting or contradictory opinions makes her scummy, and there's not an enormous amount otherwise.

Also, Anen's latest post looks really confbiasy. So what if she's not scumhunting?

IN OTHER NEWS, dave has put down a non-rvs vote. This is BIG NEWS. Lets support this!

VOTE: wgeurts

VOTE: guts

Sheeping dino. I town read him and I suck at mafia right now.

This was too easy. Getting cold feet about the wgeurts wagon. I think there's scum in the above.
UNVOTE: wgeurts
Call it pseudoscience but wagons form easier on town than on scum. Gonna think about this and regroup.

"now that im being sheeped i change my mind"

I like when ppl doubtcast without trying to peg my alignment.

Too scummy to be scum, Alchemist. This is the kind of guy I'd want a meta and playstyle argument on before considering voting him again. Also the blatant sheeping. Scum tend to do it much more subtly.
Of course if he's usually way better than this we'll lynch his ass, but I just don't know right now.

Personally, I'm gonna go with Siveure and see where that takes me.
VOTE: Siveure

You're right, anyway, with the fact that the wgeurts wagon practically absorbed the Amy one. The lack of competition is bad.

Edit: Good. Well, not good, but I guess he's town.

"lets try this wagon instead"

[droog]

for someone who's spent as much time on this game as dino
and who is looking into things more than anyone else

he doesnt have any convictions

[droog]

whats his town motivation?

im not talking about motivation yet
((and this is not the most solid case ive ever presented))

but for all the places dino's looked and talked about
why doesnt he have something more consistent
and why are all his reasons based onp retty weak
(meta, vague question, etc.)

[droog]

can someone show me where this claim is?
i reread that part twice and still dont get it

[droog]

oh
then why was he breadcrumbing it

[droog]

oh
then why was he breadcrumbing it

[droog]

he got vt with the 4th draft pick?

[droog]

i dont like either wagon
i would much ratehr lynch anenimen so

VOTE: aninenim

[droog]

i dont decode breadcrumbs

[droog]

something about the last page makes me not like my reads
im going to take another look at farside

[droog]

Why are we voting for alchemist
Who has no formal cases
Over amen
Who has sone

[droog]

Dave alchemist and hayate were ahead of sic
At least one knows if they picked the same as sic
If none of them vote there I assume his story checks out

[droog]

VOTE: dino

agree with wgeurts
and nothing said since yesterday has changed my opinions

[droog]

The problem is that we're running out of time.
As I said before I'd been waiting for certain players' reactions and most of them arrived. Some of the answers were more town-ish, some were somewhat scummy but one of the responds stood out as a blatantly scummy one. It's a pity that we have no time to lynch that player right now.

Alchemiss is a too risky lynch, I think. If he's town-PR he'll claim in the very last moment and it's possible that we'll unable to set up another lynch.
To tell the truth, Siveure is far not my strongest scumread. BUT, his gameplay makes pretty much sense if he's scum with someone else.

Even if my reads might be screwed-up, because (1) there are players who has hardly been posting anything useful and (2) I've had a very busy IRL-period, apart from the player I mentioned above, there is someone who's a constant possibility. And of course, I have townreads too. What do I mean by all of these these? As for the two scummy players, someone was pretty familiar with schoolings, while someone else was never to see tigers and polar bears. On the other hand, there is someone whom ik vind leuk, someone else has already got used to hearing knocks on the door and his/her name in turns. The third townread can never appear between The World and The Fool.

So,

VOTE: Siveure

Info lynch is better than no lynch. Sorry, Siv. Alchemist ain't happenin and neither is Anen.

VOTE: Siveure
Will reread the game at night with the idea that Anen is town. If Siv flips town, we're gonna have issues.

Vote Siv

[sarcasm]Nice to see that we had such good activity towards deadline.[/sarcasm]

actually this was really bad
if there's not scum somewhere in here
i'll soak my head

[droog]

Votecount 1.18

Alchemist21

(5): farside22, Mathdino, Flubbernugget, Formerfish, TheAdrienC

Siveure DtTrikyp

(5): Alchemist21, Ankamius, davesaz, Venrob, wgeurts

Aneninen

(3): Amy Farrah Fowler, droog, Siveure DtTrikyp

Not Voting

(1): Aneninen

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2014-12-07 08:00:00)

Less than 24 hours left!

Aneninen is LA
Venrob is V/LA until December 8
Amy Farrah Fowler is V/LA until December 7

after this, siv voted to anen
making it 5-4-4

then anen voted to siv
making it 6-4-4

to anen siv was the best wagon
and dino and fish both voted to make the lynch go through

[droog]

then anen lampshades how many players are around

A total number of 5–6 players are here or so. Like wow!

Is that a lynch?

and adrien vaguely comments on the lynch

adrien is actually the scummiest of all these rn

VOTE: adrien

anen is scum too

[droog]

Not liking droog's AdrienC vote.

do you think adrien asking if the lynch was through
without voting on it
was not scummy?

[droog]

Not liking droog's AdrienC vote.

do you think adrien asking if the lynch was through
without voting on it
was not scummy?

That's not what I was getting at. You posted all this stuff about other people, then quoted one post by Adrien with a response that is less impressive, but decided that was the scummiest thing out of everything you posted. I don't understand how it's groundbreaking enough to be stronger than everything else you posted by itself.

so instead of saying 'please explain
you posted all this stuff about other people
then quoted one post by adrien'

you left the vague 'i dont like this'
which could be interpreted many ways

[droog]

Droog, I don't understand how you went from voting Dino to voting Ade in just a few posts.

I would still gladly vote Dino
But does adrien in say end not look scummy??

[droog]

Not liking droog's AdrienC vote.

do you think adrien asking if the lynch was through
without voting on it
was not scummy?

That's not what I was getting at. You posted all this stuff about other people, then quoted one post by Adrien with a response that is less impressive, but decided that was the scummiest thing out of everything you posted. I don't understand how it's groundbreaking enough to be stronger than everything else you posted by itself.

so instead of saying 'please explain
you posted all this stuff about other people
then quoted one post by adrien'

you left the vague 'i dont like this'
which could be interpreted many ways

So you want to explain why you said all that stuff about others but voted for adrien?

*places money that droog will continue to ask questions while never answering what's asked*

What was asked I didn't answer

[droog]

Both quotes show alchemist and anka asking you about your vote on Adrien vs your comments.

neithher of those were qusetions
semantics

if you want to know why im voting adrien
asking 'is that lynch' without voting on it
is scummier than just about anything else

and if i can push in this direction i iwll
if nothing comes from it i will happily go back to my other reads

[droog]

If you subtly imply that my accusation
Isn't important enough to rebut
That doesn't make it
Not important enough to rebut

P=

[droog]

: )

[droog]

wouldve sworn i just posted
not neglecting this game will read some
you're second on my list tonight

[droog]

farside is null leaning scum
i have too many scum reads

i feel pretty town about everyone else i havent called scum
off the topo f my head thats

aninem
amy
alchemist
wgeurts
flubber
ankamius

[droog]

typo my bad

still scumread aninem
((you'll think thats a scummy explanation
i wont care unless you can prove scum motive))

[droog]

i feel pretty town about everyone else i havent called scum

[droog]

but if one small moment is enough to overwrite whatever read you had on me before
why didnt you vote me when everyone else
dilsiked my adrien vote

[droog]

I thought Adrien was scum, and I wanted to keep my vote there. I've already spoken my mind about thy Adrien vote, and it's also part of why I'm voting thou now.

Tonereading thy D1 play gave me the impression thou were town, but thy D2 play so far has been crap. Thy Adrien vote switch made no sense, thou tried avoiding explaining yourself about it with some semantics bs, and then thou somehow managed to say Anen was a townread off the top of thy head after scumreading the slot since D1.

What thou're calling a small moment I'm calling a possible slip.

then i cant possibly convince you im town
we have the same read but you dislike when i do it
i tried explaining myself several times which becomes 'tried avoiding explaining'
and youre gong to read my slip as a scumslip no matter how i explain it

but fwiw

adrien
amy
ankimius
alchemist
animen

there's a pattern taht explains why i confused myself

[droog]

Thy readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if thou had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.

That is in fact what Amy did
She admitted to giving reads on the players then posting
While she had the time

this is still scummy on anem's part
it never got explaind right

anin never explained this
he started an amy scumread on amy choosing three players randomly to give reads
when amy said that was exactly what she was doing before she gave them

[droog]

Druuge,

calling me scum because thou think Amy is town and because thou like her responds is bad logic.

We can simply misread each other, that's very common, especially on Day1. By the way, I'm not voting for her right now.

thy absolutely right
good thing i didnt

well, thou know how the joke goes

anen misreps why i think he's scum entirely
notice he doesnt acknowledge his amy mistake

[droog]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6421867 here's me previously scumreading anen for fluff
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6421873 and the same thing

in short
1) anen has fluff cases and fluff reads
2) anen scumreads amy for preposterous reasons ('looks like you picked three at random,' 'why is amy so concerned with what roles scum would pick')
3) when i call out both, anen neither explains why im wrong nor explains why they're not scummy things

[droog]

dost thou even know what fence sitting means

[droog]

Dost thou knowth thou called him scum then town then scum again and scum all along.

yes

Woop, fixed my laptops internet.
Now, seriously (half-policy):
VOTE: Venrob
I don't see any posts from him, his whole thing looks staged as well.

UNVOTE: droog
VOTE: wgeurts

This post and his last one are both really bugging me; this one for the timing and fake-looking reasoning, and the last one because... wat. He thinks thither's one scum being voted when thither's 5 wagons of two people and asks someone else to dost VCA? Then votes someone for doing nothing?

I really don't care that his laptop's internet was out and he was phoneposting. He got his internet back with this post and what he decided to dost with it doesn't sit right with me at all.

alchemist thou missed part of thy case
i also had a scumread on ankamius i forgot about
now i remember wherefore

he unvoted me as soon as thy pressure went away
for 'really bugging me'
like he needed a new vote fast after his old one wouldnt dost

[droog]

convince me im wrong

[droog]

VOTE: droog

Wheeee~

Woop, fixed my laptops internet.
Now, seriously (half-policy):
VOTE: Venrob
I don't see any posts from him, his whole thing looks staged as well.

UNVOTE: droog
VOTE: wgeurts

This post and his last one are both really bugging me; this one for the timing and fake-looking reasoning, and the last one because... wat. He thinks thither's one scum being voted when thither's 5 wagons of two people and asks someone else to dost VCA? Then votes someone for doing nothing?

I really don't care that his laptop's internet was out and he was phoneposting. He got his internet back with this post and what he decided to dost with it doesn't sit right with me at all.

which did i misrep

[droog]

like i said
you gave a weak reason for switching your vote
after the pressure on me from alchemist went away

[droog]

you gave me the ugliest color dino

this venrob wagon looks too easy
ofc i dont have a strong venrob read and will not strongly oppose it
but i think there's scum somewhere else

probably going to stick with my main scumreads, but i'll give some detailed analysis of recent happenings
sometime when i have some time

[droog]

hi again crayons ^^
thanks for subbing in... even though you didnt need to?

[droog]

You guys know
I played along with Dino too
Right?

Oh mod just asked if I wanted in since I volunteered earlier.

On phone, haven't read game, but I'm VT.

So what's droog's line tomorrow when I flip green?

?

[droog]

I have given several wagons Dino
I have given several cases
How do you feel about animem

[droog]

i like your ankamius case a lot
i would join you but we're getting a sub

sitll reading your alchemist case
but it'll have to be good to convince me

crayons, what do you think of aninen and dino?

[droog]

why policy on adrien?

[droog]

let me rephrase crayons
would you be willing to lynch either?

dino, why is lurking a policy lynch?

[droog]

you know what
nothing will happen if i say no to you crayons
we've gone long enough with nothing really happening

VOTE: ankamius

[droog]

ill give him that i havent done much lately
actually

ive stated my reads, made a few cases
not really much else i want to do

[droog]

Is no one else seeing this? It's like Victor is creating evidence to fit his reads; he either agrees and likes every post someone's made (farside) or bashes every single post someone makes. He's done this for {Mathdinio, droog, Ankamius's slot, Adrien, Venrob's slot, Alchemist, Aneninen, wgeurts}, and even if you discount the last two because they somehow end up being townreads that's a grand total of six (6) scummy people.

you mean how after one post he has several scumreads?
your reaction is overblown

[droog]

Jesus, Math you make a guy sorry he replaced into a game with you. It seems your just looking to go after me whatever I write. I'll probably respond to you later.

so are you

[droog]

Spoiler:

Right, clear patch of space, let's see if I can boss the rest of this thread before lunch.

413 - Venrob - I hate the random excuse. I can't believe that facing two players you need to flip to decide to vote.

414 - Farside - I've been liking Farside more and more and this is the question that I would be asking at this point.

416 - Wguerts - How are you getting town from that?

440 - Wguerts - Unless I'm reading the post times wrong the conversation was rolling. So why post this?

441 - Wguerts - Oh, so you can tell everyone your scumreading three lurkers. Meh.

445 - Wguerts - The first post, where he calls to meta Anen looks like an awkward defence, although Wguerts seems to be a meta high here so who knows.

455 - Wguerts - When I saw the spoilers, I kinda expected a big post. So he doesn't think Flubber is scum but he is still down for a policy lynch, cause try to lynch scum Day 1? The Siv read was obviously wrong (did it really come across that Siv was uninvested and lurky on Day 1?).

457 - AdrienC - Seems like an easy vote to throw down based on the last few pages.

466 - AdrienC - And I kinda read this as "Is it safe to hop on the Siv wagon?"

482 - Alchemist - Both scumreads here are the two flipped players. I don't think scum draws that much suspicion but I'll see if anything changes before the Day ends.

488 - Ankamimus - Says read my ISO for his Siv read, and then there's barely anything in his ISO. Second read is lurker.

Wguerts - I'll take back some of my earlier comments, your persistance on the three reads might actually have yielded something.

529 - Anen - I find it townie that he went the whole hog for a full t/s list and the reads are reasonable.

537 - MathDino - That Romi scumread kinda came out of nowhere. The worst time to scumread for lurking is after a role is replaced for inactivity.

549 - Droog - I hope this was meant to be a joke. That said I'm struggling to note anything useful you've done for ages.

550 - MathDino - And the laughs continue?

551 - Droog - Oh, he is seriously doing this. Sigh.

552 - MathDino - ffs.

Actually I can't tell whether this is serious content, or some joke I don't get. Setting Droog and Math to ignore. Droog looks kinda worse cause he seems to intentionally trying to look busy.

608 - Droog - That was awfully sensitive of you.

OK so it was squeaky bum time with a lynch. 1.18 had two wagons at five, and the Siv lynch saved Alchemist so that's notable if Alchemist ever flips scum. After Siv choose Anen over Alc, Anen put down the decisive vote.

That gets us to Day 2 with 16 or so pages to read. Drat, I was hoping for less.

I'll finish after lunch. Or sometime.

dino has a fair point
youre scumreading people for scumreading lurkers
most of the game is lurkers right now

[droog]

yes but it doesnt make you town

[droog]

why does it look like busy work

[droog]

vote dino with me victor

[droog]

gerts

[droog]

prod dodging

[droog]

im not sure i like this wagon anymore
but i dont have the time or energy to spend time on this now
will look things over during the nightphase / holidays

so no objections to a hammer
even if its from adrien

[droog]

I am stumped by this game
No scum flips concerns me

Also Christmas

[droog]

My scumreads can't all be right
The pr setup is confusing me
I haven't played close attention in a while
And something's wrong and I'm not sure what

[droog]

requesting nobody hammers yet
i will catch up on this game with thoughts
tomorrow

[droog]

didnt we already decide we probably have vengeful and not vig?

[droog]

I saw this coming. I'm fairly sure if you check Alchemist's ISO he investigated me between D1 and D2 so I'd like to think I'm as close to conftown as you get. "No one can convince me this guy was scum".

@Alchemist: Try being a lil less obvious I guess? Meh you were at the top anyway.

VOTE: Ollie

meh youre right but i had you as scum
grrrrrrr

[droog]

oh ollie is ankamius
id be up for lynching on those groundsa lone

((but thats not going to cut it as an explanation this late in
is it))

[droog]

Player List

wgeurts

*

Flubbernugget

***

droog

*

davesaz

Alchemist21

Ollie

agus24

Hayate Yagami*

Ankamius***

VictorDeAngelo

Amy Farrah Fowler*

Siveure DtTrikyp

Aneninen

*

Formerfish

Romitelli**

TheAdrienC

*

gangsta_duck41*

Mathdino

**

farside22

Green Crayons

Venrob*

Spoiler: Alive

wgeurts
Flubbernugget
droog
Ollie
Aneninen
Formerfish
TheAdrienC
Mathdino
farside22
Green Crayons

Spoiler: Dead

Siveure DtTrikyp, a Vanilla Townie was lynched Day 1.
davesaz, Town Jailkeeper, has been killed Night 1
VictorDeAngelo, Town 1-shot Vigilante, has been lynched Day 2.
Alchemist21, Town Cop, has been killed Night 2.

All players have confirmed. The draft order is:

Alchemist21 - 4 killed

davesaz - 6 killed

Hayate Yagami - 8

Siveure DtTrikyp - 13 lynched

Venrob - 15
Aneninen - 1
Romitelli - 1

Amy Farrah Fowler - 3 lynched

farside22 - 3
Mathdino - 5
wgeurts - 5
Flubbernugget - 2
gangsta_duck41 - 2
droog - 2

[droog]

Possible Roles:
Night 3 Vigilante OR Vengeful

1-Shot Vigilante OR 1-Shot PGO (active) amy/victor

Cop OR 1-Shot Redirector alchemist

1-Shot Commuter OR 1-Shot Watcher
Doctor OR Roleblocker
Universal Backup OR Role Cop
Neighborizer OR Fruit Vendor

Jailkeeper OR Tracker davesaz

[droog]

First of all, something must be cleared.
These questions are to be answered:

(1) Has anyone received a Fruit yet? (If someone, a single player answers yes, neither of these questions need answering any more.)
(2) Did you get in a neighbourhood

at Night 2

? (If so, do NOT out the Neighbourizer, nor your neighbour-buddy!)

I strongly think that something strange's going on. It seems to be absurd and I need something to start my idea confirm or rule out with.

fwiw
i chose neighborizer
and didnt get it

[droog]

something about farside is pinging scum
will elaborate later

[droog]

Still thinking flubber/adrien and finally droog.
Those are my only 3 scum reads at this time.

youre aware we all picked 2 right

[droog]

literally farside you suspect all 3 #2 players
what kind of scum do you take me for

[droog]

I'm an americant

[droog]

VOTE: adrien

oh i like you already

go take a look at game status
((my posts last page))
and focus your reread on some of day 2

fwiw mathdino was the top townread of a cop who flipped without annoucning reads


want your opinions on farside, ankamius, and crayons
dont come back and accuse me of buddying you in this post thx

[droog]

also when did anen start leading things
i dont like it

[droog]

Alchemist is dead and flipped cop

[droog]

ive been lurking again
i think ollie's responses look pretty otwnish actually
and i know ive not said much in response to him in the worst sort of way

can anyone sucintlyct summarize the ollie lynch reasons

[droog]

All my reads were wrong
Gimme some time

[droog]

thats gotta be a mistake because
i never votted for ollie
i fencesat hard

[droog]

wait ollie is ankamius
i dont know what im doing anymore

[droog]

We still have a neighborizer or fruit vendor
What happened with that

[droog]

Alchemist21 - 4

Alchemist21, Town Cop, has been killed Night 2.

[/color]
davesaz - 6

davesaz, Town Jailkeeper, has been killed Night 1

Ollie

agus24

Hayate Yagami*

Ankamius***

- 8

Ollie, Mafia Roleblocker, has been lynched Day 3.

Siveure DtTrikyp - 13

Siveure DtTrikyp, a Vanilla Townie was lynched Day 1.

Green Crayons

Venrob*

- 15
Aneninen - 1

Aneninen, Town Night 3 Vigilante, has been killed Night 3.

Formerfish

*

Romitelli**

- 1

VictorDeAngelo

Amy Farrah Fowler*

- 3

VictorDeAngelo, Town 1-shot Vigilante, has been lynched Day 2.

farside22 - 3
Mathdino - 5

Mathdino, Vanilla Townie, has been killed Night 3.

[/spoiler]

orcinus_theoriginal

wgeurts*

- 5
Flubbernugget - 2

TheAdrienC

*

gangsta_duck41*

- 2
droog - 2

[

[droog]

i hate formatting

[droog]

Night 3 Vigilante OR Vengeful flipped

1-Shot Vigilante OR 1-Shot PGO (active) flipped

Cop OR 1-Shot Redirector flipped

1-Shot Commuter OR 1-Shot Watcher

Doctor OR Roleblocker flipped

Universal Backup OR Role Cop
Neighborizer OR Fruit Vendor --

somebody has this

Jailkeeper OR Tracker flipped

[droog]

i mean not to you
but i tried to get it and failed

[droog]

no one has been neighborized or gotten fruit
so that role is probably inactive
do you think scum would cohose that role? i dont

[droog]

i would actually like the person you picked night 2 to come forward
does anyone think it likely scum would neighborize with scum?
if not than id bet at least one of you's town

[droog]

i still have a nagging feeling farised's scum
no this isnt omgus even though he suspects me
eh i started this post wanting to vot ehim
but lemme dig up a little

[droog]

why did you go for neighborizer

[droog]

why is there a big formerfish lynch
what does everyone tihnk of his claim
or his general behavior
adrien in sumchs cummier atm
[v[adrien[/v]

[droog]

VOTE: adrien

[droog]

right now id be down or adrien or farside

[droog]

What the fuck
Fish is clearly town

[droog]

thanks insanity you rock!
gotta know why i was killed