New York 180 (Endgame)

Shinobi · Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:13 pm

"Feeling" that Ozgin and GM are town doesn't really mean a whole lot.

I'd be pressing the issue harder if I didn't have the opportunity to get people to lynch Kitz.

Shinobi · Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:47 pm

@Cheeto: What part of my read progression are you not getting? I've explained all of that already.
I've also explained that killing Kitz would be grand because she keeps calling me mafia for little to nothing, and it seems like she keeps coming up with excuses to scumread me. She's been on about lynching me since day 1 and hasn't really ever gotten to it nor has she had any interest in questioning me.

@GM: This post was my main issue with you, and you're doing it again. You've got a bunch of people fighting amongst themselves in your "would lynch" list and you're putting no effort into figuring out who it is

again

.

Shinobi · Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:48 pm

*Was my main issue then.

It doesn't even require meta to back up. It's scummy on it's own and the more you put off explaining your reads the worse it looks.

Shinobi · Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:55 am

In post 4617, Kitz wrote:
In post 4614, Shinobi wrote:I've also explained that killing Kitz would be grand because she keeps calling me mafia for little to nothing, and it seems like she keeps coming up with excuses to scumread me. She's been on about lynching me since day 1 and hasn't really ever gotten to it nor has she had any interest in questioning me.

The first one, what?
You're saying that it's better to kill me because I call you suspicious?
Okay. Lynch everyone else for also having an opinion.

The second one, half of those are constructive, and the half rest is poking you with a stick due to the gut feel.

The third, I didn't push a lynch on you.

So yeah, back to basics :
I first poked on you for having said to see no discrepancies with ABR.
Then later I decided to read you town, because I couldn't really find much...
Then I ISO'd you and TSO and found some weird rivalry, so I casually asked him a read of you.
And then I got a bit suspicious of some things I forgot, something about contex-of-eachothers or something, so you were on "potential scum" team list, but now the two others are dead, sooooo...
Then I called you on something, and mentioned that rivalry thingy.
And then you wrote that you're no longer townreading because of my big post which is a blatant rant.
I again casually mention that riv thingie.
Then I call out on you for your bad opinion with no third alternate.

Also, one of the times I poked you, I called you Shinoby just to subtly taunt you.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you were scum, and that some certain other's the scum mate, but really, the read is just solid.
There's no actual slip other than the neutral devil's-advocate multi-side behavior.

Here's my read on you : You're not endangered. You have biased opinions. You have selective reading. You're defending lynchbaits and scummy players in a very oddly neutral way. Because of my poking and suspecting of you, you're now passive-aggressive and semi-tunnel on me, with just that as a basis and none else.

Because I'm conflicted about you, I'll leave this vote here. You say I've been meaning to lynch you, but here's the thing : I have never voted on you, until now.
VOTE: Shinobi

Everything you post is stupid.

Shinobi · Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:58 am

I'm literally not neutral at all. That's not even remotely close to anything I've done today.

It's like you've been posting garbage about me all game and,

gasp

, I find that annoying and suspicious in and of itself.

Shinobi · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:24 am

Not

everything

.

But that vote was pretty lame.

Shinobi · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:50 pm

In post 4636, Marquis wrote:i'm really not in the mood to get into a fight or shouting match or huge argument which is what i think is probably going to happen but i still think tso is scum and gm is town and shinobi might be tso's partner for the stance he's taken on the two of us. it seems really really fencesitty.

I called both of you town.

How is that fencesitty?

Shinobi · Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:51 pm

@Gm: Everyone in your lynch lists that wound up fighting among themselves. Your "would lynch" list, specifically.

@Dragonspawn: How?

@Kitz: It has nothing to do with "drama," or whatever it is you want to call it when I say your accusations are stupid. If you post nothing but garbage then I will continue to call you on posting garbage.

Shinobi · Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:51 pm

In post 4681, SilverWolf wrote:OK, I tried doing an ISO and meta dive on T S O and my head hurts trying to figure him out. I'm going to trust you guys know his play better than me and can help me with that read. Same with Shinobi.

Good luck with that. I've got two scum games on site tops, and I haven't played as scum with anyone here.

Shinobi · Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:06 pm

Details.

Shinobi · Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:07 pm

(I forgot about that game. You could try to ask Marquis I guess, but my slot was so lulzy that I wouldn't even call it an adequate addition to my meta. YMMV)

Shinobi · Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:07 pm

Specifically I forgot Marquis was in that game, but I digress. He knows I can look town as scum but that's about the extent of it I think?

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:48 am

In post 4688, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4682, Shinobi wrote:@Gm: Everyone in your lynch lists that wound up fighting among themselves. Your "would lynch" list, specifically.

My 'would lynch' list is you, Ozgin, and Kitz. You and Kitz hadn't really gotten into it when I posted that and Ozgin hasn't fought with anyone that I remember.

How is that 'fighting among themselves,' exactly?

I've been fighting with both of them.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:49 am

Btw, is TSO is actually a role then scum has to have some crazy stuff to make up for it.

All we've seen flip thus far is that weird roleblocker permutation.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:55 am

In post 4730, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4722, Cheetory6 wrote::/
Can you say whether you were one of the kills on N1?
I have a hard time seeing scum fakeclaiming vig in a game which I'm pretty sure has one based on N1.

I have an easy time seeing an SK fakeclaiming Vig. Actually I don't see why Scum might not fakeclaim Vig anyway given that there's been a certain amount of role doubling and on the offchance that it's an SK who probably wouldn't CC.

In post 4725, Shinobi wrote:
In post 4688, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4682, Shinobi wrote:@Gm: Everyone in your lynch lists that wound up fighting among themselves. Your "would lynch" list, specifically.

My 'would lynch' list is you, Ozgin, and Kitz. You and Kitz hadn't really gotten into it when I posted that and Ozgin hasn't fought with anyone that I remember.

How is that 'fighting among themselves,' exactly?

I've been fighting with both of them.

They certainly haven't seemed to notice, and neither have I.

You should try reading the game at some point, then. It might help you notice things that are actually happening.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:55 am

In post 4731, T S O wrote:
In post 4726, Shinobi wrote:Btw, is TSO is actually a role then scum has to have some crazy stuff to make up for it.

All we've seen flip thus far is that weird roleblocker permutation.

We haven't seen anything flip.

Yes we have?

lol wtf

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:22 am

In post 4746, goodmorning wrote:(By which I mean

Vote: Shinobi
)

???

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:23 am

Kitz has been on me all game and you're harping on one little thing of me getting frustrated.

Your point between me and Ozgin isn't even good.

Wtf is this?

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:24 am

In post 4750, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4748, Shinobi wrote:
In post 4746, goodmorning wrote:(By which I mean

Vote: Shinobi
)

???

Your revisionist history of this game is, quite frankly, enough to bump you straight to the head of my 'should lynch' list.

Except that's not at all what happened?

Even if you think your point between me/Ozgin is good, it's really not because at best there's still the issue of me/Kitz which has been happening since forever, which is still valid.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:27 am

I said TSO/Marquis is tvt like 50 times.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:37 am

In post 4757, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4753, Shinobi wrote:
In post 4750, goodmorning wrote:Your revisionist history of this game is, quite frankly, enough to bump you straight to the head of my 'should lynch' list.

Except that's not at all what happened?

Even if you think your point between me/Ozgin is good, it's really not because at best there's still the issue of me/Kitz which has been happening since forever, which is still valid.

I went looking in your ISO again, this time for the part where you directly engage Kitz, and it doesn't exist. You talk about Kitz occasionally, but talking TO Kitz, all you seem able to do is just quote a post, call it scummy or stupid, and then fuck off.

That's not an argument.

I can go through all your posts in a spoiler to demonstrate that you're a liar if you really want.

You can go ahead and quote as many posts as you want and show me that you have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you really want to dig into the "she's been calling him scum all game so they're definitely not interacting at all lolz" and try to sell that as a vote, which isn't really going to fly.

@Aeronaut: Marquis is writing better posts that he normally does as scum. I've thought the TSO push was kind of lame since much earlier.

Them fighting certainly helps, though. It does read like tvt and I don't understand why I can't use that as a basis for a read.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:40 am

I have 4 votes on me. The only one that's even remotely justified is GM's.

Christ.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:42 am

In post 4760, goodmorning wrote:Coincidentally, even if you had been arguing with them both you'd still have to prove that it was scummy for me to scumread the three of you at similar levels.

I literally don't have to do this at all since having a lynch list that's willing to lynch into itself and concluding that the players involved are mafia is nonsense.

Again: the exact same thing you did in the Open game.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:46 am

Nobody fucking cares what you think about the interactions or how they matter at all. Kitz is voting me for bullshit as of right now and she was on the exact same spot on your lynch list as I was, and it didn't seem to bother you at all.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:50 am

Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4766, Shinobi wrote:

@Aeronaut: Marquis is writing better posts that he normally does as scum. I've thought the TSO push was kind of lame since much earlier.

Them fighting certainly helps, though. It does read like tvt and I don't understand why I can't use that as a basis for a read.

Because them fighting could be town vs town, town vs scum, or scum vs scum honestly.

Cool.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:50 am

In post 4773, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 4767, Shinobi wrote:I have 4 votes on me. The only one that's even remotely justified is GM's.

Christ.

In post 4770, Shinobi wrote:
Nobody fucking cares what you think about the interactions or how they matter at all. Kitz is voting me for bullshit as of right now and she was on the exact same spot on your lynch list as I was, and it didn't seem to bother you at all.

Kitz is voting for Marquis, the only person voting for you is Cheetory.

Before.

Whatever.

You know what I mean.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:53 am

I'm thinking I might just be wrong on GM.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:56 am

I'm not sure if she'd run with this whole "interactions" thing this hard as scum.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:00 am

I'm baffled as to how they caught Boon as a pr on day 1.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:04 am

This is hilarious.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:29 am

What list You didn't ask me for anything iirc.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:29 am

In post 4812, Shinobi wrote:What list? You didn't ask me for anything iirc.

Ebwop.

"Feeling fake" isn't enough either.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:32 am

Oh so you just voted me for garbage reasons again.

Funsies.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:44 am

In post 4824, Kitz wrote:
In post 4816, Shinobi wrote:Oh so you just voted me for garbage reasons again.

Whining loudly about this exact thing before freaking about how many votes you have, when... Oh, not even that many votes. Then jabber about past stuff.
That, without constructively playing. I'm seeing probably lack of initiative and direct discussion on appropriate things.
Derp.

I can see these are words but I don't see how they coincide with actual things.

*Where is the lack of initiative?
*Where is the lack of direct discussion on "appropriate things" and where do you think my attention should be?
*Why does me "freaking out" about how many votes I have make me scum?

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:48 am

In post 4842, T S O wrote:Shinobi please stop going after Kitz and fucking vote Marquis before he manipulates the Newbies into thinking I'm the SK or whatever his bullshit scenario is

I don't get sucked into "him v me" scenarios, sorry.

I'll comment on it when it matters.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:49 am

Btw, if someone wants to tell me why a serial killer would be totally invested in this game and have the highest postcount out of everyone, then I'm all ears.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:02 am

In post 4858, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4852, T S O wrote:Apparently not. I have no idea why viking got this. I did not.

This might be a slip actually.

Scumslips are a terrible scumhunting characteristic.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:13 am

In post 4871, T S O wrote:I don't even mind being lynched tomorrow if 3 scum are dead by my hand. Maybe even if I hit 2. If I am wrong about both Marquis and goodmorning, I'll take the town consensus on whether me dying is best, but I'll be cranky as all fuck about it.

Should probably just kill Aero.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:22 am

In post 4886, Marquis wrote:
In post 4882, Kitz wrote:
In post 4880, Marquis wrote:
In post 4876, Kitz wrote:Cop healed

what

Vikingfan = Cop, claimed RB'd and Healed.

oh my god what

that's not normal what the fuck

Congratulations, you just figured out why all of early game was a clusterfuck.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:38 am

I already commented on the claim.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:56 pm

Why are people so opposed to the GM shot?

The best towncase I've seen on her thus far is "feels" which is useless.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:57 pm

At best I can argue that she wouldn't be this blatantly bad as scum, but even then shooting her is still fun.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:36 pm

In post 4947, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4945, Shinobi wrote:At best I can argue that she wouldn't be this blatantly bad as scum, but even then shooting her is still fun.

I really hope that you're Scum.

Well I'm not, so.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:37 pm

In post 4946, elusive wrote:VOTE: Shinobi

Yeah, no.

Why?

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:39 pm

In post 4950, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 4945, Shinobi wrote:At best I can argue that she wouldn't be this blatantly bad as scum, but even then shooting her is still fun.

Why do you say things like this?

Because I'm getting annoyed that there isn't a single person in this game trying to act rationally.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:41 pm

In post 4952, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4945, Shinobi wrote:At best I can argue that she wouldn't be this blatantly bad as scum, but even then shooting her is still fun.

....

You know this is probably scum though.

Explain why.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:55 pm

We just going back to the whole "LOLZ THIS IS SCUM" part of the game where we don't bother explaining anything?

It's a one-liner, people; it shouldn't be that hard to analyze and compare with the rest of my filter to see if there are any discrepancies with my persona or the agenda I'm posting to see if something doesn't fit or if the conclusion I'm drawing doesn't mesh with my earlier posts.

Just saying "this is scum" doesn't necessarily make it so.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:33 pm

I've been waiting for nearly an hour, elusive.

This shouldn't be that hard.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:10 pm

I'm guessing that none of the people that jumped on me for my one-liner cba to back it up with anything outside of calling it scum baselessly.

Funsies.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:13 pm

I already know why you didn't like it but not liking it doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't warrant a vote.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:20 pm

In post 4962, Aeronaut wrote:Yea, shinobi it's the fact that you've been saying things like that all dayphase. I pointed out one earlier where you said something along the lines of "Let's lynch Kitz because it will be fun", which is a ridiculous statement amidst what's been going on. You're not putting much effort into lynching scum, and all you've really done in the last 5 pages is complain about how shit your wagon is.

Except that's not even remotely accurate since I'm questioning people. Even then, lynching people because it's "fun" is nothing more than banter outside of the fact that I find them scummy for other reasons.

It just so happens that a bunch of people want to find excuses to hop on my wagon, so naturally I'm going to question those people as well.

Nice job ignoring everything else I've posted, though.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:32 pm

In post 4965, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4964, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 4938, Aeronaut wrote:And let's be honest, lynching Marquis is going to be a mislynch.

How do you know?

Idk, I'm pretty sure he's town at this point. Aren't you?

@Shinobi, Ok. I gave my reasons. Now you can't complain about nobody giving their reasons anymore

Giving reasons for voting me that are objectively bad and then still being against me after I talk to you about them won't make me feel better about any of it.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:50 pm

I just explained I'm not lynching people for fun.

Meh, I don't have the energy to explain everything again. I'll post here more tomorrow or something.

Shinobi · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:53 pm

In post 4971, SilverWolf wrote:I'm actually extremely worried about both elusive and Ozgin because they've both pretty much withdrawn from the game and I really don't like that at all.

Also something I've noted, ftr.

Shinobi · Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:20 pm

Dropping a bunch of catchwords and saying that three people are scum without explaining why isn't going to cut it, especially when two of them are screaming at each other.

Btw, are we doing massclaim today or what?

Shinobi · Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:29 pm

Cool I'm vt.

Ftr describing the words she's dropping, bringing up quotes or describing the situations she's talking about and how it makes those three players scum instead of personifying their play would be the best way to make a case.

Shinobi · Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:31 pm

You know, considering the alternative is throwing around a bunch of buzzwords that have no meaning in a vacuum.

Shinobi · Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:20 pm

In post 5127, Aeronaut wrote:To keep up the vig charade

lol'd irl

Shinobi · Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:40 pm

Are scum neighborizers a thing?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:10 am

In post 5162, elusive wrote:SO few people talking about the Shinobi lynch while FA was pushed really quickly. Paranoia time?

Well people asked you why you were voting me and you chose not to answer.

Jsyk.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:21 am

If we're rolling with the fact that scum has a doctor and/or a rolecop, then why are we voting the guy that was tracked nowhere?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:22 am

Kitz' reads are so crazy that she's probably town.

This will likely be a pain to deal with later, but meh.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:36 am

Ozgin, half of that analysis is based on TSO not crumbing and then the other half is crumbing anyway.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:55 am

In post 5177, Ozgin wrote:
In post 5176, Shinobi wrote:Ozgin, half of that analysis is based on TSO not crumbing and then the other half is crumbing anyway.

How so?

My point is that his "crumbs" were either not crumbs at all, or carefully orchestrated so he could fake claim. Sorry if that message didn't quite get across.

His crumbs not being crumbs and then other crumbs actually being crumbs just means that you know he crumbed. Great. Now what? Why is it a fakeclaim and not him actually being the vigi?

There's the question you have to answer. Is his overall behavior congruent with him being a vigilante or not and why? Three posts isn't enough. He could have crumbed vigi as either the actual vigi or the serial killer, and the quotes you're presenting aren't enough evidence to prove his alignment otherwise.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:22 am

In post 5182, Cheetory6 wrote:
Shinobi wrote:If we're rolling with the fact that scum has a doctor and/or a rolecop, then why are we voting the guy that was tracked nowhere?
Are we believing ABR's results now?
That's also assuming that one of the roles isn't a godfather or a ninja or some other kind of passive role.
Why are you still voting for goodmorning? Are you really rolling with her being scum still? Why?

There's no reason not to believe ABR's results when he reclaimed tracker. He claimed he checked me regardless of the role he was claiming. Ofc there could be ninja/godfather, but there's still a pair of roles that we think are likely considering the gamestate so why would you intentionally lynch suboptimally when you could potentially clear someone as town?

Even if ABR messed up, there's no reason to write off his checks because he has 0 reason to lie about them. The only motivation he had otherwise was getting VF lynched.

I'm still on the fence about GM.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:26 am

In post 5183, elusive wrote:So SW are you saying Ozgin is also a neighbor?

Good to know you still cba to explain why you're voting me.

Pedit: Mathblade confirmed that he was a tracker so I don't know why you're rolling your eyes.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:38 am

Ofc I'm using it as a shield. I tried talking rationally to people and it's not fucking working.

I can come up with reasons to think of GM as either alignment but none of them are good in terms of thinking of her as possibly being town.
Elusive isn't even bothering to explain why she's voting me.
Aeronaut is still reaching to try and lynch our claimed vigi while directing his shot.

These are my scumreads right now. I say I'm on the fence about GM but if you put a gun to my head, I'd say she was scum.

If you want to believe that all of ABR's checks are fake anyway, go ahead. I genuinely hope I get lynched with two likely scum roles that have extra visits with a tracker check on me.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:23 am

Already explained that I wasn't actually killing people for "fun."

Nice try though.

I've explained the majority of my reads over the course of today, so you have no real excuse for not knowing what they are. Not like it mattered to you though, considering you voted me because I said something to GM that you didn't even bother mentioning at all which you never bothered to explain in the first place.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:37 am

I never made a giant post explaining my reads. I've been giving reads throughout today and there's no reason for you to not be able to see them.

I've already noted that I thought Marquis/TSO was likely TvT.
I've said that I thought Kitz was town because I think he reads were so off-the-wall that scum wouldn't actually dare to have them.
I've fought with GM over the course of today.
I just explained why I think Aero is scum, and I've been asking about him throughout most of today anyway.

The only ones you might have an excuse to not know about are my reads on you/SilverWolf, and I think SilverWolf is town. It does seem like she's trying to figure things out with her posting and that she's trying to get a look at the big picture rather than get into fights with other players.

If you couldn't see them before, you can now.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:37 am

In post 5193, T S O wrote:Ozgin returns to the game; quotes posts where I show my thought process for my kills, tells us these aren't crumbs, quotes the actual crumbs and says that, yes, these are crumbs, but I could still be the SK, because ???

lol I already explained this.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:44 am

I can't help but feel I'm partially to blame for starting this crusade against you on day 1.

I think karma's catching up to me right now though.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:56 am

Thinking my reads are sub-par is meaningless.

I just explained my Kitz/Aero reads so there's no reason for you to not understand them.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:56 am

What you're saying about my Aero read isn't even accurate.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:15 am

In post 5205, goodmorning wrote:Shimobi is trying
awfully hard
to make ABR's no-result a thing.

Already noted by someone else but still meaningless.

If you had votes on you and one of our information roles claimed a check on you, you'd be doing the exact same thing.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:29 pm

In post 5219, Ozgin wrote:Day 1 - "Let's kill someone random! Why not? I'm the SK, it's my
job
to kill everyone. Either kill scum luckily or doctor (just as lucky for me, since I'm anti-everything)."
Day 2 - "Oh look, a scum died last night. I can claim that as my own work."
Day 3 - "Hm. I'm gonna hard crumb that the vig will kill MathBlade tonight, then as the SK kill Math so I can claim vig later! They'll have to buy it!"
Day 4 - "Everyone is shitting on FAQ. Instead of claiming vig now, I'll just ride out this wave and let them lynch someone, and claim tomorrow."
Day 5 - "Everyone look! Turn your attention to day 3 - I must be vig because I hard crumbed this! I also must be town because I'm a vig and scum died night 1! Let's kill Marquis!"

Now, if Marquis flips town on a lynch and you're alive tomorrow (And no scum die tonight):

Day 6 - "Woah woah woah guys, it was an honest mistake! I'm a vig, not a cop! I couldn't have known my kill last night was town, and I couldn't have known that Marquis wasn't scum! They looked like scum! I dunno why I'm still alive! Please don't lynch me!"

But if the scum kill you tonight and you flip SK, I'll probably laugh harder than I should. If you flip vigilante, I'll feel pretty stupid, but my gut is SCREAMING at me.

Your gut isn't worth anything, sorry.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:41 pm

Ozgin wrote:
In post 5221, Shinobi wrote:Your gut isn't worth anything, sorry.

You're absolutely correct. I'm just saying I'm not ready to buy into this whole TSO-vig thing, and that's fine. I have no intention of killing TSO yet, because right now I don't have a reason to suspect him scum, and even if my gut SK-read is correct, for now he's better off alive and tropsing around as a town vig than as a dead SK who can't kill people that we, as town, want him to kill.

I mean, hey, worst case scenario he's a Serial Killer on a leash, right?

Coolio. So if we don't lynch TSO, who do we lynch? Besides myself and Marquis.

In post 5222, elusive wrote:TSO hard defending Shinobi and vice versa, is this a sign Lord?

Yes, the supposed SK is aligning with a supposed mafioso that everyone wants dead. Good job.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:42 pm

Elusive and GM are literally shoveling so much shit in my driveway that it has to be impossible for other people to not see it.

Literally everything that happens in thread - they use as ammo. They're not interested in my answers to anything because they don't care.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:52 pm

In post 5227, elusive wrote:I'm not going to ask you again, Shinobi.

I gave you my read. There's no reason for you to keep asking for a case when I already told you what I thought.

Though if you want to keep looking for excuses to hang your vote on me, go ahead.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:56 pm

@Ozgin: I already told you what I thought about Aero.
Specifically, why do people care about my case on Aero when I have 3 different scumreads? Nobody is asking about the other two but they're just harping on this one thing like it's the end-all-be-all of my play.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:03 pm

In post 5233, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5231, Shinobi wrote:@Ozgin: I already told you what I thought about Aero.
Specifically, why do people care about my case on Aero when I have 3 different scumreads? Nobody is asking about the other two but they're just harping on this one thing like it's the end-all-be-all of my play.

protecting aero?

Seriously?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:16 pm

In post 5238, elusive wrote:So I asked Shinobi several times to provide an actual case on why he scum reads Aeronaut. The concept of case is foreign to no one in this game or they would ask. Interestingly he mentions two other scum reads but won't provide a case for either of them as well.

Being obstructive does no one any good.

It's almost like I don't care what you think when you vote me over nothing and then keep coming up with reasons after the fact.

You yelling about anything isn't going to make me do anything, sorry.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:19 pm

In post 5245, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5235, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5233, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5231, Shinobi wrote:@Ozgin: I already told you what I thought about Aero.
Specifically, why do people care about my case on Aero when I have 3 different scumreads? Nobody is asking about the other two but they're just harping on this one thing like it's the end-all-be-all of my play.

protecting aero?

Seriously?

and what reason do you think they have for only asking you about aero?

You tell me?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:26 pm

In post 5253, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5246, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5245, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5235, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5233, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5231, Shinobi wrote:@Ozgin: I already told you what I thought about Aero.
Specifically, why do people care about my case on Aero when I have 3 different scumreads? Nobody is asking about the other two but they're just harping on this one thing like it's the end-all-be-all of my play.

protecting aero?

Seriously?

and what reason do you think they have for only asking you about aero?

You tell me?

Pretty sure I did.

Btw that was a command not a question.

I'm not protecting Aero for you.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:27 pm

TSO at this point you need to find an alternative lynch. Marquis isn't happening and I'm the alternative.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:32 pm

In post 5261, Kitz wrote:
In post 5259, Shinobi wrote:Marquis isn't happening and I'm the alternative.

Well, how about... making so you're not the alternative? Should be obvious to defend yourself, nay?

Pretty much everything I've been saying in regards to the people on my wagon should be the equivalent of this.

Do you not see the validity of my arguments against GM/elusive or no?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:34 pm

I might sheep TSO here after all is said and done.

TSO, you're going to shoot GM, yes?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:35 pm

Yeah, I just kind of realized it.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:44 pm

Are people even reading what elusive is writing at this point? I'm not.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:57 pm

In post 5282, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5257, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5253, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5246, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5245, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5235, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5233, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5231, Shinobi wrote:@Ozgin: I already told you what I thought about Aero.
Specifically, why do people care about my case on Aero when I have 3 different scumreads? Nobody is asking about the other two but they're just harping on this one thing like it's the end-all-be-all of my play.

protecting aero?

Seriously?

and what reason do you think they have for only asking you about aero?

You tell me?

Pretty sure I did.

Btw that was a command not a question.

I'm not protecting Aero for you.

You're seriously not following this conversation

I'm not even pretending to.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:57 pm

In post 5283, Ozgin wrote:
In post 5247, T S O wrote:Your logic keeps falling to pieces in certain areas and you refuse to address these:

-Why the fuck did I kill Boonskiies n1 if I'm the SK?

I didn't say for certain that you did, but it's possible. Why did you kill pisskop if you're the vig? It could have been blind luck.

-Where's my n2 kill?

You could have missed your shot, because bulletproof people exist. Maybe you shot the same person that scum did.

-Where's the vig's kill n3 if I'm the SK?

Again, if there are 3 killing parties, it's possible for kills to overlap.

-Where's my n4 kill?

By this point you would have realized your claiming opportunity, and made the choice not to kill anyone.

-Why hasn't the vig counterclaimed me?

See below.

And, here's one for the road:

Why the fuck would I set up a Vig claim when the alive Vig would just counterclaim me?

So this is the most confusion part for me, because I simply don't know. This is where my gut has taken me, and this is the only point that I can't reason for. Something is fishy.

So even though I don't have all the answers, like I said: gut read. I'm not even calling for a lynch on you though, so your enormous reaction is strange to me.

Pedit:

I went to the store really quickly when I started this. Coming back to read the posts that happened while I was gone -- TSO, if Marquis is going to die no matter what today, tell me -- why do we have to lynch him? Why don't you shoot him and be venerated tomorrow as the great town vig who nailed a clean shot on a scum?

Again, something is fishy.

@dragonspawn - Why did you never respond to my post where I pointed out that you pretty much misrepped me by saying I wanted to lynch TSO?

There is literally 0 incentive for him to not push his reads just so he can shoot someone at night. This isn't fishy at all.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:03 pm

In post 5287, Ozgin wrote:Except, you know, nobody else being ready to lynch Marquis, so why not try to lynch another decent scumspect and then shoot Marquis tonight?

Pedit:
@dragonspawn

"Because even though you said you don't wanna lynch TSO, you're trying to lynch TSO."

I can't facepalm any harder, holy shit. Is this how TSO feels about Marquis?

Lmao this is how TSO feels about everyone because nobody is listening to him.

Again: there is literally 0 reason for TSO to stop pushing for a lynch just because he has a bullet.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:08 pm

In post 5290, Ozgin wrote:Also, Shin, dragonspawn is trying to get at the people questioning you about Aero (elusive, me, etc) are defending him, not that you are.

Oh.

Forgive me for catching the dumb, then.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:33 pm

In post 5308, elusive wrote:I think Shinobi dying today for his utterly crap play is ideal. TSO you're welcome to shoot whoever you want tonight. If the person you NK turns out to be scum, great news we'll follow your lead!

Which is why everybody is now coming around to me being town. Totes crap.

Totes.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:10 pm

In post 5317, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 5314, SilverWolf wrote:Marquis-I'll look that over and get back to you.

OK, Let's say that we mislynch today, worse case scenario and TSO vig kills town by mistake and scum kills town as well.

That puts us to 8 alive tomorrow, which if there are 4 scum left alive is a sure fire win for scum. I don't know if there are 3 or 4 right now. In a game like this I could see a 4 or 5 person scumteam. With town OP'd who knows? Anyone have experience with typical scumteam size in Large Normals?

So, given this, and without a real solid scum lead, should we consider a NL or am I being dumb?

With the way my mind is right now, you will not insult me if you think I'm being an idiot. But perhaps a NL would be best now?

Then, worse case scenario, vig misfires, scum kills, that brings us to 9 tomorrow which could be a lylo situation but not an auto-loss because pisskop was killed and there is no way I'm going to believe a 6 person scumteam.

We have 4 days until deadline. Input, ideas?

I'm not going to be voting Marquis today. Best option today is Shinobi, who won't share his full reads with us, or really provide a lot of details of his thoughts outside of random one-lines which really don't hold a lot of weight with me. He keeps trying to milk that D1 "no track" read which doesn't conftown, and really can't be trusted much coming from ABR.

I'd like to vote Shinobi, but I have no idea what the VC is and I'd like to not accident-hammer. I believe he was L-2 last I checked.

I fucking typed out my reads already.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:12 pm

They're RIGHT HERE.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:18 pm

Dragonspawn exists. It seemed like he was catching on to the majority of the accusations on me being bullshit but I'm an idiot and didn't catch it. So townlean.
Ozgin seems reasonable and towny I guess.
Cheetory is.....I don't know how to describe it. He's here and he's asking questions, but then he gets answers and leaves and it just doesn't seem like my answers sated him in the first place because he's still on me. I'd like to say town, but I really don't know.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:19 pm

In post 5328, elusive wrote:
In post 5195, Shinobi wrote:I never made a giant post explaining my reads. I've been giving reads throughout today and there's no reason for you to not be able to see them.

I've already noted that I thought Marquis/TSO was likely TvT.
I've said that I thought Kitz was town because I think he reads were so off-the-wall that scum wouldn't actually dare to have them.
I've fought with GM over the course of today.
I just explained why I think Aero is scum, and I've been asking about him throughout most of today anyway.

The only ones you might have an excuse to not know about are my reads on you/SilverWolf, and I think SilverWolf is town. It does seem like she's trying to figure things out with her posting and that she's trying to get a look at the big picture rather than get into fights with other players.

If you couldn't see them before, you can now.

Wow, its like my unvote just told me to kill myself.

Explain?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:30 pm

In post 5334, SilverWolf wrote:Shinobi-You've been calling Kitz scum for awhile now, even going so far as to say it would be fun to kill her here: 4600 and 4601 and these post show you were suspicious of her as well 4628 and 4682

It was all about her reads that you didn't like. Then today suddenly you completely changed your mind and said she's town here 5169 and 5195.

But her reads have been like that all game so why suddenly is she town for having weird reads when you've been pretty sure she's scum up until recently?

Mostly because I can't imagine a world where scum actually calls you scum.

Afaik that was the first time she's done so. A lot of the time I play off of omgus, which gets fueled pretty hard when someone tunnels me all game. Normally I doubt that most tunnelers are mafia, especially since I tend to be a really popular target for newer players for some reason, but I usually love trying to kill them because it makes me feel better about getting tunneled.

I wouldn't say I was "pretty sure" at any rate. I'm sure I postured like it but there's a reason I don't blow the thread up trying to kill Kitz every time she calls me scum, which has been basically the entire game.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:41 pm

@Aero: Are you going to at least pretend to follow up on me or are you just going to afk with your vote on me more?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:58 pm

In post 5338, goodmorning wrote:@Shinobi:

In post 5234, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5225, Shinobi wrote:Elusive and GM are literally shoveling so much shit in my driveway that it has to be impossible for other people to not see it.

Literally everything that happens in thread - they use as ammo. They're not interested in my answers to anything because they don't care.

I really don't know what you're talking about here.

In post 5316, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5264, Shinobi wrote:Do you not see the validity of my arguments against GM/elusive or no?

I'll ask again: what arguments?

We've fought on this repeatedly already.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:00 pm

You were even talking about me harping on a tracker check as a scumtell.

How can you not see that as an issue?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:05 pm

No. Read the thread.

This will be the end of me explaining my arguments to you.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:16 pm

In post 5336, Shinobi wrote:@Aero: Are you going to at least pretend to follow up on me or are you just going to afk with your vote on me more?

In post 5333, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5328, elusive wrote:
In post 5195, Shinobi wrote:I never made a giant post explaining my reads. I've been giving reads throughout today and there's no reason for you to not be able to see them.

I've already noted that I thought Marquis/TSO was likely TvT.
I've said that I thought Kitz was town because I think he reads were so off-the-wall that scum wouldn't actually dare to have them.
I've fought with GM over the course of today.
I just explained why I think Aero is scum, and I've been asking about him throughout most of today anyway.

The only ones you might have an excuse to not know about are my reads on you/SilverWolf, and I think SilverWolf is town. It does seem like she's trying to figure things out with her posting and that she's trying to get a look at the big picture rather than get into fights with other players.

If you couldn't see them before, you can now.

Wow, its like my unvote just told me to kill myself.

Explain?

Somehow I don't feel like either of these things are happening.
I know elusive isn't doing it because she couldn't be bothered to explain her vote in the first place.

Aero, where'd you go? You got what you wanted, so surely you have some kind of follow-up...Right?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:38 pm

In post 5344, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5342, Shinobi wrote:No. Read the thread.

This will be the end of me explaining my arguments to you.

I DID

YOU HAVE NOT ACTUALLY SAID ANYTHING COHERENT AGAINST ME

Not how it looks fmpov. I see a crazy person trying to lynch me because of "revisionist history" and "tracker claims lol," both of which I thought that I had adequately explained, relevancy aside.

It's kind of like a merry-go-round. I scumread you, I explained why, and then you thought it was wrong and scumread me. And then I tried to explain and it seemed like you just kept going with it, so I thought that was scummy...Etcetera.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:10 am

I'd say "haven't really done anything that could be described as fighting" is a stretch.

I explained why I thought it, so you losing your mind and voting me over not understanding it when you think "fighting" means something else other than "fighting" is not my problem.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:27 am

In post 5369, goodmorning wrote:Fighting is, by definition, a back-and-forth. Nothing of that nature has occurred between you and Kitz, and only one small skirmish between you and Ozgin. I really didn't want to have to waste my time proving it, but apparently I have to.

Sniping at someone does not equal fighting.

Even if you don't agree with Kitz (despite the fact that she's still voting me for whatever reason) there's no reason for you not to realize that the spat that happened between Ozgin and me was similar to the one between uctriton and me, even if you think it's not exactly the same.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:39 am

@GM: Sure they could; we could have whispered sweet nothings into each others' ears while drinking tea and masqueraded that as a fight instead.

@Ozgin: I posted my reads like 50 times, so complaining about me not posting cases when I've told everyone what I thought over and over isn't going to accomplish anything.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:59 am

In post 5380, Ozgin wrote:No no no, Shinobi - I understand that. I know what your reads are. But instead of saying "Just fucking read the thread!" when someone says "Hurr gimme yo reedz," say something like, "I explained my views on players x, y, and z in (Insert post #/post link here), and players a, b, and c in (Insert different post # here)."

Because people are stubborn and won't take "Go read," as an answer.

Okay.

Well I posted them and reiterated them anyway, so.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:22 am

In post 5393, elusive wrote:Tso if there is a mafia doctor, its possible that who you target may be protected. Who are the top three people you think might be good targets (2 real and 1 fake to throw off the scent).

Shinobi, your reads aren't convincing that is my main issue with you. You also do bounce back and forth quite a lot, for example with Kitz, which I wonder about.

I explained Kitz. I explained everything. You not thinking I'm convincing is irrelevant towards gauging my alignment.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:23 am

In post 5335, Shinobi wrote:
In post 5334, SilverWolf wrote:Shinobi-You've been calling Kitz scum for awhile now, even going so far as to say it would be fun to kill her here: 4600 and 4601 and these post show you were suspicious of her as well 4628 and 4682

It was all about her reads that you didn't like. Then today suddenly you completely changed your mind and said she's town here 5169 and 5195.

But her reads have been like that all game so why suddenly is she town for having weird reads when you've been pretty sure she's scum up until recently?

Mostly because I can't imagine a world where scum actually calls you scum.

Afaik that was the first time she's done so. A lot of the time I play off of omgus, which gets fueled pretty hard when someone tunnels me all game. Normally I doubt that most tunnelers are mafia, especially since I tend to be a really popular target for newer players for some reason, but I usually love trying to kill them because it makes me feel better about getting tunneled.

I wouldn't say I was "pretty sure" at any rate. I'm sure I postured like it but there's a reason I don't blow the thread up trying to kill Kitz every time she calls me scum, which has been basically the entire game.

The explanation is right here, in case you somehow missed it and are still looking for whatever reason to come after me.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:24 am

Aero still doesn't have a reason to be on my wagon afaik. I just mosey'd onto his scumlist out of the ether and it doesn't seem like he cares about my answers to anything.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:25 am

In post 5390, Ozgin wrote:Also, I just read the votecount again, and Shinobi is at L-2, Marquis is at like L-5 with TSO hopping to Aeronaut and with dragon sheeping right behind him, and Aero is at L-4.

I don' like any of the 3 wagons. If I wanted to start a new wagon (Which I think would be ludicrous at this time) it would be on dragonspawn for the relentlessness of his sheeping. However, since TSO would probably drill into my anus if I did that (because I'd be attacking his pet sheep), it's probably not wise to go after dragonspawn today.

I like the Shinobi wagon more than either of the Marquis Wagon, but I'd be willing to vote Marquis if TSO and his pet would hop back onto him, because I think both Marquis' and Shinobi's wagons are better than starting a wagon on Aeronaut, who I've never really scumread.

I also wanna hear TSO's answer to my question about pushing Marquis.

Sheeping is a terrible reason to scumread someone.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:51 am

In post 5398, Ozgin wrote:Sheeping is, however, a great reason to identify someone who is a terrible townie and is only helping scum by being so easily controlled, and are a dire threat to town's success at this stage of the game.

You can't get scum lynches without sheeping cases. Not every single townie in the game is going to have ironclad cases on mafia. I'd wager almost 90% of skill in mafia relies on sheeping.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:06 am

In post 5400, elusive wrote:New players may sheep or if a player has gotten 1-2 mafia killed in row, then yes sheep otherwise its suspicious as hell and deserves a death sentence.

Literally not how this game even works. By it's nature there's far more townies than mafia, so every single townie being able to write different albeit ironclad cases on mafia would make this a very boring game.

In post 5401, Ozgin wrote:But relentless sheeping over and over because they blindly trust one individual?

Afaik Aero has been tunneling dragonspawn almost all game and only dropped his scumread very, very recently.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:08 am

"Only newer players can sheep."

Seriously. Rofl.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:24 am

In post 5406, elusive wrote:Don't selectively read or you detract from your own skill as a player and you really in particular don't need to do that.

Or did you really miss the other half of the equation?

Jesus, why isn't this one dead yet?

I read the whole thing. It's all meaningless. Attaching more conditionals to a statement that's poorly thought out in the first place doesn't really make it more meaningful because the scenario you're suggesting is literally impossible.

None of what you're saying is relevant towards my alignment so shouting about it doesn't really phase me.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:41 am

Okay.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:47 am

Ozgin wrote:
In post 5405, Shinobi wrote:"Only newer players can sheep."

Seriously. Rofl.

She said that new players can sheep because they're new and can get away with it, and if someone has 2-3 confirmed Mafia kills then yeah you can sheep, but otherwise you shouldn't and dragon is that otherwise.

I'm aware of what she's saying.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:54 am

VOTE: Aero

Reasons: he has 0 interest in questioning me and I mostly only popped up on his scumlist out of convenience. I answered what he was asking me earlier and he only came back to talk about irrelevancies instead of continuing his pressure or finding an alternative lynch target. He's mostly just looking for an excuse to hang his vote on me.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:07 am

I literally don't even care about the outcome of the game at this point.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:56 pm

Aero, I gave you my readslist.

You even asked for elaboration and I elaborated.

There is literally no reason for you to be on my wagon and you fucking know it.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:58 pm

You can quote it and the answer I gave you. I gave you a full readslist so you have no excuse to not know what my reads are.

Your point on me talking about probably being tracked is absolute garbage and you know it.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:08 pm

In post 5459, Aeronaut wrote:Here's another one

I'm very weary of some of the Shinobi/TSO/Cheetory interactions with each other today. I really didn't like this post in which Shinobi accredits the interactions between Marquis, T S O, and himself as simple paranoia that stems out of "mutual respect" for each other. I feel is subtly implying that they're all town, and that people should look elsewhere. I also don't like his constant assertion that two people fighting in a game suddenly makes them town. Shinobi has been here long enough to know that that's not really the case, and it bothers me that he's trying to push that.

Except I said that everything that was said by the two of them was completely reasonable. I have experience with Marquis' scumgame and this is is so different that I don't believe this is it, and I had reasons to believe that TSO was town as well despite the fight. I had no reason to believe that the fight made either of them scummy.

Nice try though.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:09 pm

In post 5460, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 5188, Shinobi wrote:Ofc I'm using it as a shield. I tried talking rationally to people and it's not fucking working.

I can come up with reasons to think of GM as either alignment but none of them are good in terms of thinking of her as possibly being town.
Elusive isn't even bothering to explain why she's voting me.
Aeronaut is still reaching to try and lynch our claimed vigi while directing his shot.

These are my scumreads right now. I say I'm on the fence about GM but if you put a gun to my head, I'd say she was scum.

If you want to believe that all of ABR's checks are fake anyway, go ahead. I genuinely hope I get lynched with two likely scum roles that have extra visits with a tracker check on me.

In post 5332, Shinobi wrote:Dragonspawn exists. It seemed like he was catching on to the majority of the accusations on me being bullshit but I'm an idiot and didn't catch it. So townlean.
Ozgin seems reasonable and towny I guess.
Cheetory is.....I don't know how to describe it. He's here and he's asking questions, but then he gets answers and leaves and it just doesn't seem like my answers sated him in the first place because he's still on me. I'd like to say town, but I really don't know.

I gave you the rest of them as you asked.

Nice job ignoring them.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:14 am

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:20 am

In post 5536, T S O wrote:He's still playing to his win condition by not letting us set up for tomorrow in twilight.

Everyone: assume Aero flipped scum. Where are we going tomorrow?

GM/elusive.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:21 am

There is literally 0 reason not to shoot elusive if Aeronaut flips scum here.

Zero.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:25 am

Btw, thanks for waking me up Marquis. I needed that.

Pedit: Then shoot GM for funsies. Maybe Kitz. Idk.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:30 am

Okay, shoot GM for being bad then.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:31 am

"I'm going to keep pushing the counterwagon to scum because scum lolz."

The idiocy.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:32 am

In post 5551, goodmorning wrote:I could actually agree with a shot on Kitz. That would probably determine whether I'm right about Shinobi or TSO is.

Whatever happened to unflipped associatives? They just disappear because it's convenient or what?

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:36 am

You scummers so crazy.

At any rate, if you're not shooting elusive, shoot GM.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:39 am

In post 5568, Ozgin wrote:
@Aero: Why isn't TSO the vigilante?

There's no reason to believe anything Aero says about TSO.

Ignore it.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:01 am

Don't shoot Marquis please.

There's no reason to shoot people on the Aero wagon.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:02 am

In post 5624, Marquis wrote:my first thought was some sort of jailkeep

also this spec is ridiculous

VOTE: elusive

only thing i'm doing today

bye

I was literally about to post the same thing.

VOTE: elusive

Let's get this done.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:53 pm

So.

Uh.

Hi...

Shinobi · Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:24 pm

Astute observation.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:40 am

Do people think Ozgin really hammered his partner after yesterday?

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:53 am

It's like nothing that ever happens in thread is ever a reason to take anyone off the table for a day.

This game is like pulling teeth.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:57 am

"Towncred for predicting a mislynch."

Seriously?

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:38 am

In post 5802, Cheetory6 wrote:
Shinobi wrote:It's like nothing that ever happens in thread is ever a reason to take anyone off the table for a day.
What exactly happened that should take someone off the table?

We just lynched mafia in an extremely contested vote?

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:42 am

I don't see a world where we go "okay, we just lynched mafia. Let's lynch the people on the right wagon."

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:47 am

I guess.

I'll look into it after work, maybe.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:12 am

In post 5808, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5805, Shinobi wrote:I don't see a world where we go "okay, we just lynched mafia. Let's lynch the people on the right wagon."

There are so many things wrong with this I don't really know where to start.

Would you say, for instance, that on D2 the viking wagon was the 'wrong' wagon?

Depends on if the lynch is highly contested and if the counterwagon was a mafia wagon.

Since it falls under neither of these categories, I would say "no."

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:20 am

In post 5811, goodmorning wrote:Or is 10 on and 8 off not highly contested enough for you to count it?

Both wagons were town.

There's environmental analysis to be done in regards to looking at people who didn't care about what was going on possibly, but that's about it. It's not the same thing as people voting the way they vote when mafia is at stake.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:27 am

In post 5816, Cheetory6 wrote:
Green Crayons wrote:Yes, bussing is A Thing, but I don't know why the default assumption would be that "bussing occurred" rather than "scum tried to have their buddy not get killed."
I'm more just trying to understand why Shinobi thinks it's worth discounting Ozgin as scum just because he hammered especially since intent had already been given before the hammer had actually happened.

I said I'd look into it.

@GM: Yes. That is exactly what I mean.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:44 am

I don't agree with you GM, and I don't really care about what you have to say about it because I'm going to continue scumhunting this way.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:13 pm

Ozgin, remind me: how many games have you played before this one?

Shinobi · Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:52 pm

In post 5843, Green Crayons wrote:Has this game always been this slow with votes, or is today special for some reason?

The game moves in spurts.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:56 pm

Is there anything you want to know/ask about before delving into the madness of NY 180?

Shinobi · Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:46 am

Marquis is still not mafia.

In post 5851, Ozgin wrote:I've completed 1, replaced into and died in 1, and replaced out of 2. Those last three mentioned I played almost all at the same time, so I'm relatively new. Why does it matter?

@Kitz - I didn't bother to read you because, until now,
you haven't even
cared
about this game.

I'm trying to figure out if your reads are superficial because of newness or scumness. Either is possible but I haven't put the time in yet to solidify the read.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:55 am

I'll go out of my way to do so when I'm not working.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:39 pm

In post 5861, Kitz wrote:This game is going directions.

Is it though?

I'm probably going to wait for Marquis to post again before I post reasons as to why we shouldn't lynch him, if nothing else to confirm my own beliefs when I see him talk about his scumreads. W/e. I've already talked about it before (his game here being almost nothing like the scumgames I've seen him play) but if we still need more reasons to not lynch him then I can post them later.

@GM: I didn't really find anything damning/definitive about the case.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:48 pm

I'm pretty sure this game slowed down the way it has because TSO isn't here to stir everything up. Huh.

I do really want to read what Marquis has to say though.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:47 pm

Okay I guess.

Do you think scum would suggest an information lynch on their own partner? Why does pisskop suggesting an information lynch on Kitz make her scum?
Why does pisskop voting Kitz for no reason make her scummy?
Why is that interaction only coaching instead of anything else at all?

Just a few questions off the top of my head.

Shinobi · Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:26 pm

In post 5865, Marquis wrote:post later, cheet still probscum

Still waiting for this to happen.

@GM: Okay I guess. I don't really think what you're saying is all too definitive though.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:25 am

In post 5886, Green Crayons wrote:I am out of town this week for work, and I thought I would have more free time than I actually have had.

Apologies.

So much stalling.

In post 5889, Marquis wrote:after class

I await your return with baited breath.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:20 am

Marquis are you intending to post any time soon?

I'm not particularly a fan of this Ozgin push and I'm kind of waiting to see what you come up with as an alternative wagon.

Shinobi · Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:49 am

In post 5899, Marquis wrote:kind of been preoccupied with things lately but i really think cheetory is scum because vague meta, what at least felt like lurking throughout the shift onto the aeroscum wagon, etc etc

Elaborate pls?

Shinobi · Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:03 pm

In post 5905, dragonspawn wrote:We have five days to a deadline and most of the living people haven't voted. What up with that? We can't even analyze votes since no one is bothering to vote. If town manages to win this game we so dont deserve it

I know. I'm still waiting for Marquis to give his case because I don't like the Ozgin wagon and I'm having trouble finding alternatives.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:36 pm

In post 5907, dragonspawn wrote:Who are your top scum reads shinobi?

I don't really have one right now, though me asking Marquis for a case should have tipped you off.

In post 5908, Kitz wrote:
In post 5906, Shinobi wrote:I know. I'm still waiting for Marquis to give his case because I don't like the Ozgin wagon and I'm having trouble finding alternatives.

Why is it such a huge deal with Ozgin for you? Just curious.

He's the topic du jour so I don't see why I wouldn't talk about him.

Shinobi · Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:38 pm

Marquis not fleshing out his case hurts my soul.

@GC: TSO is a nonconsecutive vig. GM is some kind of neighborizer. Everybody else is VT I think.

How do you not know who's been neighborized if you're part of the neighborhood?

Shinobi · Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:02 pm

In post 5923, goodmorning wrote:Different neighbourhoods Shinobi, how many times do I have to say it????

I probably skipped over it because it's kind of a useless tidbit but w/e.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:39 am

In post 5974, Green Crayons wrote:But you people think that SK would put himself in a 1v1 position outside of LYLO, so I guess y'all love not making sense.

Yeah.

Why are we lynching the Sw slot?

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:50 am

Ozgin constantly attacking Tso and always distrusting his claim is consistent with Sw and him discussing her claim in private.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:58 am

In post 5978, Marquis wrote:what the fuck is going on

why the fuck is there a vig counterclaim now when we could have lynched the fuck out of tso earlier

what the fuck

Yeah lol.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:29 am

This game is so stupid.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:05 am

In post 6012, dragonspawn wrote:
In post 5960, Green Crayons wrote:elusive was N4

Figured that we wouldn't want the BP player to be revealed to be BP.

But whatever.

elusive is dead. You said it was a living person.

and she wasn't bp

Commuter can't be targeted by night actions.

Elusive might have used her power last night to avoid the vigi shot.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:47 pm

Wait, since when did we have doctors?

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:52 pm

In post 6059, dragonspawn wrote:Here is a crazy theory. Oz and wolf were scum pretending to be neighbors because of house faking some crumbs day 1. They never intended to public ally out the hood until I spilled the beans.

now we are getting close to lynching oz. The flip will show there is no hood. So the two of them are doi g what they can to confuse the heck out of us in hopes that we mislynch.

lynch GC. What do we have to lose? The nk will sort things out and expose any scum left who is left.

Lame theory ftr. GC could just be town and wrong and we would be no closer to solving the TSO/Ozgin dilemma.

How does the nk solve anything?

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:56 pm

The only reason the whole 'hood thing came to bear in the first place is

specifically

because GC claimed vigilante instead of Ozgin. It's counterintuitive for GC to step up to the plate and claim vigilante for no reason other than to confuse everyone and kill himself and his supposed partner.

Your theory doesn't really hold any water. I might even give you scumpoints for it.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:09 pm

I knew that.

I was testing you.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:50 pm

I realized what DS is saying about the kills, so derpy me again.

I still say we lynch inside the vigilante claims because we are out of ideas otherwise.

Shinobi · Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:33 pm

Everybody wants out of this lulzy game but we can't just up and lynch all of them.

Shinobi · Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:42 am

In post 6092, dragonspawn wrote:VOTE: oz

because I have good reason to think he tried to kill tso and missed.

And?

Shinobi · Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:46 am

I'm kind of at a loss as to who I should vote here.

The Ozgin push reads as a bunch of garbage but so does the TSO push.

@TSO: That's nice but I don't really see how it's relevant.

Shinobi · Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:54 am

In post 6101, T S O wrote:Dragonspawn is basically softclaiming the fact Ozgin is lying.

Do we even have room for another information role?

Shinobi · Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:01 am

Marquis just gave you a reason to think there's a BP SK, and I agree. Bulletproof serial killers are standard and a 3 shot vigilante is an incredibly powerful role to want to keep secret.

Shinobi · Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:21 am

This is problematic.

Shinobi · Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:35 pm

Yeah, the whole "I shot randomly thing" is kind of garbage.

Shinobi · Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:25 pm

Would Ozgin just randomly shoot pisskop though? Is that a believable thing?

Shinobi · Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:49 am

Wtf is going on in this game?

Shinobi · Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:54 am

In post 6216, dragonspawn wrote:Ok wth?

SERIOUSLY.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:11 pm

This is an amazingly entertaining train wreck though. Normal games usually don't pan out like this.
Idk, I hope I live to see tomorrow.

Shinobi · Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:16 pm

We might actually win this game.

Isn't that nuts?

Shinobi · Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:14 pm

In post 6267, Marquis wrote:VOTE: shinobi

and gm we need to touch up on this. I let this read fall to the wayside with the TSO focus, but now that I'm feeling much much much more confident about my old reads around then I'm thinking this and/or kitz could be it.

I was the counterwagon to scum you imbecile.

Shinobi · Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:16 pm

I can't say I'm surprised about TSO being a mass murderer at this point, because that's kind of why I had so much trouble with yesterday:
The pisskop shot didn't make sense from either of their perspectives. TSO had a townread on pisskop when he died.

Shinobi · Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:18 pm

In post 6257, dragonspawn wrote:I'm good for lynching kits or marquis today

I'm still unenthused with a Marquis wagon.

I feel like I've stated this several times but nobody seems to really listen at all.

Shinobi · Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:27 pm

In post 6270, Shinobi wrote:
In post 6257, dragonspawn wrote:I'm good for lynching kits or marquis today

I'm still unenthused with a Marquis wagon.

I feel like I've stated this several times but nobody seems to really listen at all.

I have reasons to start reconsidering this ftr, but it's not concrete one way or the other.
Will have to talk to Marquis at some point to solidify my read.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:17 am

Kitz, you don't get to complain about being tunneled when you keep voting me for stupid reasons.

"Scumpoints for not voting Ozgin in a scum v scum cross, even though he was the counterwagon to scum the day before."
Fucking seriously.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:25 am

Except none of that is true.

What is this nonsense?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:54 am

You didn't even fucking give me reasons. You've just been tunneling me all game over complete fucking nonsense like "he was wrong" or "he didn't vote the right people" even though it was a scum v scum cross and it didn't fucking matter who I voted anyway, and even then, I was the one pushing the Aeronaut wagon over almost everything else.

Read the fucking game you moron.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:59 am

Ugh. Don't do that.

Now I feel bad.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:29 am

Kitz, I'm sorry if I yelled at you but it feels like you're not listening to a word I say about anything and it's starting to get really frustrating considering we're two months into this. At some point some kind of reassessment needs to happen and I'm getting annoyed that you're just using whatever ammo you can against me.

Can we make this happen or no?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:36 am

I don't see what I'm doing wrong with my vote tbh.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:43 am

In post 6294, Kitz wrote:
In post 6292, goodmorning wrote:I didn't even consider a reflexive element to the SK as being a possibility, though it does seem the logical conclusion now it's been brought up.

You knew there was one. So, looking back, did Ozgin.

It's the explanation of the first night, it's logical. Stop turning logic against me.

lol

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:47 am

That depends; are reflexive vigilantes a thing or no?

I honestly don't know the roles too well here on MS.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:53 am

In post 6299, Kitz wrote:
In post 6295, goodmorning wrote:
In post 6294, Kitz wrote:Stop turning logic against me.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously. 3 attacks on first night and then either 1 or none. I was either thinking mass murderer (I couldn't find it on the wiki), so I thought it was the town role (off-site names) veteran / grandma / hateful. Everyone said no, one way or another.

Where? I don't remember this happening.

Pedit: Mmm. Seems more plausible now I guess.
Double pedit: Yes, this setup is kind of crazy lol.

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:18 am

In post 6310, Marquis wrote:oh ok

boon claimed mainly doc, but possibility of other PRs day 1

so pisskop had reason to roleblock boon, and tso had reason to kill boon

so piss died because he also visited boon?? i think

wow this solves things a lot more nicely

also this role is pretty far removed from normal role interactions so ugh tso got by only on the double kill there

This just leaves one question:
How did mafia know there was a 3p role in the setup?

Shinobi · Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:26 am

Mass Murderer is a bulletproof role in SC2mafia, so it's plausible that TSO got shot at some point.