Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Formerfish]

The fuck did I just do?

I have to be back at work in 8 hours, I will try to be here tomorrow night.

[Formerfish]

Forgot to do this

Unvote

I will read and evaluate soon.

[Formerfish]

Finace was in the emergency room tonight. I did not have time to do anything.

[Formerfish]

Alright, there is a very good chance that I am not going to read this game in its entirety until Saturday. Someone tell me who they think I should look at and why.

Right now I am going to read the first page or so to get a grasp on what the fuck is going on.

[Formerfish]

Look at me, aronis, ut and vezok.

Why to each? You voted UT right? Why?

[Formerfish]

Btw Cheet, if you really want to die I can tell everyone your sign.

How do you know his sign? Is this part of the detect/trace thing?

Side question- when do nights happen in this game? Was there a minor night after the minor day, or did we just go into the major day?

[Formerfish]

I am a little drunk and pretty pissed off right now. I needed some direction/a way to get into the game, so I figured I would follow conftown in Ffery in looking at CDB. I got about half way through his iso last night and went to bed with the intention of finishing off today. At some point when I was at work my kid got a hold of the computer cord and ripped it out causing me to lose everything I had written. I can give a vague outline about why I came to my read on him, basically the nonsense ideas he had early on, contradicting himself, and making a lot of posts that seemed like they were trying to add content, but were more vapid than anything else. I know that conftown can be wrong just as much as anyone else, but I do see where she is coming from with her read, and I'm willing to back that up.

Vote CDB

[Formerfish]

I'll be around here tonight when I get off work.

[Formerfish]

How many people here have played with me in a large game? If you have you know that I post when I can and that it usually takes me a while for me to find the bone that I can't help but go after. Cheet, why is it so important to you personally that I post right now? I am still trying to wrap my head around the mechanics and how everything could work together. Do you have something specific you would like me to talk about, or are you just looking for me to post? If you have questions by all means ask away. If not then I need you to explain why you picked me out of everyone as someone who needs to post more.

[Formerfish]

The last game you played with me you saw me tryhardtown for the first day or so and then I was nked. If you want an accurate look at me then meta dive my large games. I'm sorry that you don't have an impression of me, but maybe you need to interact with me directly. It is a lot easy for me to get involved when someone is actually talking directly to me, then when I am trying to pull things out of everyones wall posts to analyse.

I am not going to completely read this game. Flat out is not happening. By the time I read up on everything I would be so far behind again that it wouldnt make any sense.

[Formerfish]

Do you have any suggestions on who you would like to discuss?

[Formerfish]

@Singer, Yesterday people were asking me why I townread GiF so hard. You asked me why I thought GiF was killed to fuel your tunnel vision. I can see that. It's absolutely a town perspective to put everything out on the table when I know it

provided that's good to reveal

. Also, many people have asked me to be more humble and look at what I can do to improve. So yes, I can see given GiF's flip that maybe scum thought he was a PR. Not doctor specifically (as they couldn't crack what role he had). By the way, your reads list sucks. We are not baning Mastina.

I've been over your inconsistencies in this thread before. Mastina, Shadoweh and I all happen to think you're scum (and that's the bottom). Yet, I know me and everyone here knows me that if I start walling cases, I hit a point of no return.

Given there is a red flag with pushing your lynch (FFery never reading Empire wrong), I am going to take a step back and actually review what you do.

@Cheetory, I'm a little surprised by the lack of confirmation of TTH and DeasVail not being pissed about TTH's promise. TTH said something about his relationship with DV and being able to confirm himself as town. Generally, having knowledge about the setup is usually indicative of scum rather than town. If I'm understanding TTH's role right, he knows what a bane or a boon is. Given low numbers of scum, informing scum of banes and boons makes sense. So TTH actually goes down based on the reveal (although I know that's not a popular opinion). DV also goes down a few notches because I'd expect more of a reaction but it almost looks like he ignored it.

@All, the Mastina bane is terrible guys. Mastina's town.

Titus, talk to me about the bolded.

[Formerfish]

Sorry, i thought that I found something but I didn't. I had to go back and check asofai because I thought ffery was in that with us and got snowballed by empire. Ffery wasn't in that game though so it was a moot point.

[Formerfish]

Also, I don't want to lynch Singer today. Or the tomorrow that will actually count as a Day where that can happen. I want to ignore all the angry shouting and

target the people who are skating by in the meantime.

I'm not even sure if I'm scumreading Aronis as much as bitterly pressing on wondering why when every wagon on Day 1 rose from the dead people ignored him as a possibility. (CDB is the only one with an actual reason).

So activity is alignment indicative to you? Do you normally advocate policy lynches? Examples of other games where you have said/done the same thing?

[Formerfish]

That you HADN'T made me.
I'm not getting baned today.
Period.

bane mastin

gamma are you scum

be honest

Eewwww...

The first because she may be lying, but is this really the time to handcuff town when they could have a useful role?

The second because I feel like this is something scum says more often than town.

Bane UT

[Formerfish]

I get where you are coming from, but feel like we should be baneing someone we are scumreading, even if just slightly. I am not going to bane someone I am not scumreading based off the fact that we could block something useful to us from being performed.

[Formerfish]

I am getting the data from playing games with people who say that as scum...

I've said it while playing as scum...

You seem awfully confident in your read on Mastina, why?

And your last line is a bit more aggressive then I think is warranted for the post I made.

[Formerfish]

I never said it was 100% a scumtell, I said I feel like scum say it more than town does. So... nice attempt at twisting what I said into a strawman argument.

Do you have anything concrete to point at on Mastina, or are you going straight off gut?

[Formerfish]

Why?

[Formerfish]

Boon: Mastina

[Formerfish]

Do I seriously have a pressure wagon on me right now based off activity? Who the fuck uses activity as an actual basis for scum hunting? Who here has actually tried to engage me in anything so far? I'm sorry that I replaced into a game that was already 100+ pages and have had RL issues to deal with and have had a hard time getting involved. How about this, instead of voting me for pressure ask me a fucking question. Find a way to sort me that involves scum hunting and not policy lynching a low activity player.

Jesus, I have a hard enough time dealing in with normal large games, this is 10X more difficult. Give a motherfucker a break.

[Formerfish]

Do I seriously have a pressure wagon on me right now based off activity? Who the fuck uses activity as an actual basis for scum hunting? Who here has actually tried to engage me in anything so far? I'm sorry that I replaced into a game that was already 100+ pages and have had RL issues to deal with and have had a hard time getting involved. How about this, instead of voting me for pressure ask me a fucking question. Find a way to sort me that involves scum hunting and not policy lynching a low activity player.

Less blank rage, more rage that involves who you think is scum pushing you. How do you ask questions of someone who hasn't posted anything to start asking questions about?

Singers push feels lazy, but I dont know her well enough to figure out if this is lazy scum looking for something they can easily park a vote on or lazy town who can't figure out a better scum read so they stick a vote on something they see as scummy (ie. my activity).

And you don't have to ask me questions about stuff that I have posted, you can ask questions about stuff other people have done/said to try and get a baseline for my thought process. You can ask me to form a read on someone you already have a read on to see how well we are synced up. You could ask me just about anything to get me directly involved. Do you know how difficult it is to try and decipher walls of posts you haven't read because they are buried so far back in a game that you don't even get the context they are in when given some context?

[Formerfish]

FORMERFISH.
ISOdive two people.
Talk about them.
Stop complaining.

Well shit, if I knew it was that easy I would have solved this game days ago...

I can't take peoples post out of context like that, its not how I play. I need to be able to see the whole picture unfolding as it did in real time. It is damn near impossible to do so when I was 100+ pages back, and anytime I started to read I had another 15+ pages and growing.

You were all hot and heavy on my dick a few days ago about posting, and now there is a pressure wagon on me, why aren't you foaming at the mouth to be all up on that shit?

[Formerfish]

I survived another Mothers Day in the restaurant industry. I will be here tonight.

[Formerfish]

Why is it so hard to make people give a shit about this game.

Because the people caring the most are the ones fighting with each other and ignoring the ones that don't. The best way to float in this game is to do nothing at all while town tears itself apart. Even UT imo is engaging people more then certain fish that will remain foxless.

Formerfish: I don't really feel like feeding you reads when the problem I've had with your slot as a team thing is that it has nothing but fluff. Did Marquis not leave you any reads in your Team's PT? Was he too busy talking in the scum PT and ignoring talking about his game because there's nothing to talk about? You're screaming that you have nothing but the person who was in your slot is someone who's thoughts you should actually have access to and I find it extremely concerning that you replaced in like this was a non-team game in which no one left you anything.

I am not asking to be fed reads, as I'm not expecting you to say something like "I think X is scum, what do you think?" What I was looking for, and clearly no one gives a fuck about, is to ask questions about how I feel about X or Ys plays. Don't worry though, I won't ask again.

Marquis posted a lot about other peoples games, and how he felt he was playing badly himself and was looking for replacement. The only reads he had in our teams PT was a scum read on Empire slot, so singer now, and a scum read on Anti (now TTH) due to the replace out.

[Formerfish]

You could have voted someone. Good luck with life DV!

His vote could still be applying pressure while looking for a replacement. Would at least help move the game state forward.

This line of thinking is very odd to me. I feel like most people would find it scummy to vote and then peace out. That would be the ultimate vote parking, but that is exactly what you are advocating for here.

[Formerfish]

I really liked Shadoweh's 5054 about FF and feeling like he shouldn't still be working with nothing this game. His last two posts were complaining that no one was engaging him or helping him out, when he should've had a slew of resources at his fingertips.

Speaking as another replacement

, it seems really under-the-radar. Even with a townread on Marquis, I can't really reconcile not being able to contribute at this point. Titus making excuses for him and deconstructing the pressure on him as "I'm not going to call taking care of family scummy" when that is not what the pressure is about at ALL, or even what people are remotely calling scummy, is terribad. Of note, this also isn't the first time she's turned a push on something/someone into something it wasn't to make it look worse!

I don't give a fuck about what your team needed to do to help your slot in this game. My team isn't your team, and maybe there is a much simpler reason why you have so much help.

[Formerfish]

Hey UT.
Can you start taking the game seriously so I can actually get a read on you?
Because like, jesus I'm feeling really tempted to sheep this wagon on you because of how garbage you're being at engaging literally anything in this game and if it weren't for the odds being so high that there are tryhard-as-fuck scum directing the game right now, I would be getting on board as well. [and I mean the fact that I don't want to be on another wagon without actually agreeing with it from here on out because holy fuck the VCAheads are probably just licking their chops at the idea of a UT townflip as an excuse to devour me whole]
So please, talk about why you think Gamma is apparently scummy. Or like, literally anything reads-wise.
Or replace out. Either would be appreciated.

I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push

Okay.
Tell me what is potentially different between here and with elusive in DoA then? How absolutely confident are you that UT isn't just being a shitter as town?

JUST VOTE HIM

You and Singer are trying to do everything you can not to vote UT

I like this call out. Its like when you are hanging out with some of your friends and there is a guy and girl in your group that are all flirty and playful with each other, but claim that they are just friends, but then it gets to the point where you are just like "

Why don't you two just go ahead and fuck already!

"

[Formerfish]

also, I'm Alquin

suck it

let's actually vote for some scums now

Jesus.

[Formerfish]

If I am reading the role pm correctly I am seeing 1. That if you are Alquin, you are dead tonight because scum knows your sign, and you can not be protected, so thats fucking great, 2. By dying you are going to allow scum to target as many players as they would like to try to kill. Both of these are seriously anti-town outcomes and I have no clue why you would claim at this point since you were at l-5, by that logic I guess I should wait for one more shitty vote on me for pressure to role claim and offer myself up to the gods of nks.

[Formerfish]

no.

alquin will not claim here.

as much as UT is fucking obvscum it is still better to leave him alive and just lynch two other people than have alquin counterclaim here, he's even said it himself his ridiculous fucking "you must be scum because you're counterclaiming alquin because you wouldn't counterclaim alquin as town" utter horseshit.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Claiming early is just causing us to fight with each other and cast doubt on anyone who was pushing UT before, look at the comment he made about scum hunting off his wagon.

[Formerfish]

if you think not only his play but how he claimed it is more likely to be coming from town than scum then I legitimately don't know how the fuck you've endured enough games to still be on this site.

And if you DON'T think it's more likely coming from town than scum but are unwilling to vote him because of the little pings against it, then go back to losing to godfathers and innocent tracker results on scum and shrugging about how you played the odds correctly afterwards so clearly you couldn't have done better than that.

Mostly through cigarettes and chocolate cake, I think. ^_^

What I think is odd is how UT is the only 'terrible lurking dood' whose actually getting shit for it

, and I think it's because he's the only one here engaging people back when they talk about him. It's ironic because the thing that should make him obviously the wrong lurker target is the reason he's getting voted, people like you like having an active person to fight with.

How is UT the only person getting shit for being a lurker when my wagon exists solely for the fact that I have been inactive? And you are one of the people who have commented on it too.

[Formerfish]

let's not all lose sight of the fact that there are people in this game trying to lynch the claimed Alquin, therefore taking the lock off the scum kills, rather than waiting to see if the scum take him out tonight, which they absolutely should if they're not retarded, because I'm immune to protection

there's no goddamn way scum claims this, and the Oversoul counterclaim clearly came from a place of not thinking about optimal scum strategy too hard because there isn't a world where it's not more efficient to kill me tonight

unless you're trying to play around a watcher, but it's STILL smarter to just shut up and kill me because you're getting yourself killed a day sooner by counterclaiming

Scum definitely claims the Queen of the game, hoping for an actual CC. The real Alquin wouldn't CC per optimal town play, non-Alquin town might certainly fake CC you (assuming yours was real) in an attempt to keep you from being the nk. Not killing you tonight would surely cause a shit fit of wifom tomorrow, so there is a reason why scum would keep you alive.

[Formerfish]

Had*

UT played like he wasn't worried about being lynched. Do you see that coming from scum, or Alquin?

I would think that being the town trump card would drive someone to never be the lynch target as they wouldn't want to get into a position where they would have to claim.

[Formerfish]

Guys.

I can finally tell you why singer is scum.

Empire was scum in the vanilla nightless and was really upset because of it and switched with zar who hated the setup in vanilla nightless. I'm pretty sure there is absolutely no chance that Empire moved from a scum slot to another scum slot.

I don't understand this post.

[Formerfish]

@UT, The last post was to Singer.

I got no problem eating crow if I am wrong. Given I am townreading everyone on this wagon independant of theory (which says they are town), I doubt I will be. Little risk. High reward.

Well I have a problem with lynching important town roles. If you don't, maybe you're scum.

Seriously. Is it new meta to lynch townies and hope for the best? Do you think scum are going to kill themselves?

I really can't decide if you are town or scum and the things you say only sound dumb.

Are you seriously unable to see why the way UT is acting could be coming from scum? I mean jesus fucking christ. I don't have to much experience playing with you, but I stand by what I said in the unusual game about being glad that I didn't have to play with you.

[Formerfish]

I survived another Mothers Day in the restaurant industry. I will be here tonight.

I'm really looking forward to you being here. I have a pending question: who would you vote right now, gun to your head?

UT or you.

[Formerfish]

DV's replace-out reads list was a piece of shit, but no surprises there.

Would you want to expand on that a bit, or are you cool just making that a standalone statement?

[Formerfish]

I had like 10 posts, do you have anything worth commenting on? Would you care to refute what I have to say against you, or are you going to try and blindly discredit what I have to say based off the fact that I am not eating the shit sandwich you are so gratefully devouring with feverish abandon?

[Formerfish]

Ok, no expanding. Care to share on why you are not town reading Oversoul?

[Formerfish]

Jesus, what the fuck happened? I'll be catching up and keeping current.

pedit- I resent that I am still being seen as flying under the radar.

[Formerfish]

(2) Not Voting: 4nxi3ty,

Formerfish

(Oversoul)

With votes like this I can't imagine why.

SO because I wasn't around for much of the day, and didn't have a vote down on someone when a mislynch occurred I'm flying under the radar?

[Formerfish]

@singer- Part of the reason is going to be from Marquis thinking that Empire was scum, and most of my read is going to come form the fact that you seem to only be pushing me based off my activity. Titus does a good job of explaining it in a way that I would never be able to.

@Singer, It's ok for UT not to post because UT is hanging out with you, but it's not ok for FF not to contribute because he's got a sick fiance and is a replacement? While I'm sure he could relay Marquis's reads, they are not his reads. I like the fact FF is open and honest and saying he's confused.

You've also committed a logical falllacy here. You've supposed that two issues that can ideally be handled separately by two players means one player can handle both.

You've supposed UT has got real life issues, yet he can post (and it's somehow temporarily excusable although I doubt he's been at the commune all game). You're a replacement, yet you can post. Therefore, having both shouldn't stop FF. The logical fallacy can be displayed in math terms.

An Average person can hold 5 bricks. (Personal reasons not to post)
An Average person can hold 5 stones. (Being a replacement)
Therefore, a person can hold both 5 bricks and 5 stones. (Being a replacement and dealing with personal issues)
Yet it can be true that the maximum any one person can hold is 7 objects. (Either being a replacement or dealing with personal issues).

FF, not posting for ever will not be tolerated, but it seems like you're coming up with smokescreen reasons for UT.


UT is not explaining his gamma read. Your big reason for not liking DV, he didn't explain his reads. DV's explained more in his current post than UT has explained all game.
UT is not posting content. Your big reason for not liking FF is... not posting content. UT is actually just spamming.

I do love the touch of "class" at the end where you attempt to paint my opinion as wrong or scummy just because you disagree with it and it doesn't fit into your narrative.

All the reasons you push for voting other people also apply to UT. Yet, you won't vote him.

Other than you I could see Dan being scum here as well. Since I am doing a lot of this from behind I can see the outcome before the actions themselves. Something that I noticed about Dan is that he is pushing hard for people to vote for people who end up being town. Now this could just be really bad luck with his reads, and I think that could be the case, except for one thing. Dan hasn't really done anything that I can remember him for otherwise. He has basically been nonexistent and no one seems to be saying shit about it. It was like when people were railing against me for not posting when Aro had been mia for much longer.

I would be fine with a vote on either of you two. In fact, I think scum is here

Vote Action Dan

[Formerfish]

Something that I noticed about Dan is that he is pushing hard for people to vote for people who end up being town

Who is he pushing hard for who's ended up being town?

@Titus. Kgreatthankyoutonightisnotagoodnight.

I've seen pushes on TSO (flipped town), UT (town until he isn't), and CDB (someone I have a fairly strong town read on). All of those people have been targets of Dans pushes.

[Formerfish]

Cheetory. She's scum. It's not worth it. Don't go to the dark side. Come see the light...again...

Preview Edit:
@FF...it should be pretty obvious by now that I was excusing his play because we suspected he was Alquin, so...you can try another explanation seeing as you don't have the same excuse. And it's not just your absense. It's the excuses you've made instead of just taking the time to do something, and then the lack of effort in doing anything. I've already said Titus's defense of you is terrible so using her words to defend you is just ironic at this point.

Last first: just because you said someones idea is bad doesnt make it bad. UT: if he is Alquin (which I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt of) then you could easily be whiteknighting knowing that you are going to kill him tonight without anything being able to block that. My activity: How many people do you know who would replace into a game that was 130 pages long? Have you ever done it? I am playing the best I can, and it will only get better as I get a better handle and the amount of pages per day slow down a little bit. I have a full time job that I am not able to play much during (I usually read a page or two while I am shitting but it is hard to being coherent in that fashion), and then I go home to a fiance in the throws of depression mixed with a whole lot of anxiety and a 21 month old who has started stripping and pissing whenever we aren't looking.

pedit: Espy could go either way. scumDan could be looking to push a buddy at this point since all of his other pushes have been on town.

[Formerfish]

Unlynchable

[Formerfish]

Phone posting, can someone easily link Anx s claim? I would like to see what exactly he claimed.

Im pretty split on the two main wagons right now. I would like to vote Aro after looking at his I so, but I'm not thrilled with his wagons composition.

[Formerfish]

I saw someone say that the sign changing pointed to scum in Anx claim. I see it as the oppiosit. If stone scum targeted him for a detect and found out his sign to be candle when they go to kill him at night with candle unmake it is going to fail.because he is stone now. This seems like a fairly decent way to keep a townie that we are going to need in the future alive. When I get off work I am going to have to see if any of the people who pushed hard for a ut lynch after a claim match those that are now pushing Anx hard after his claim. I'd bet there is at least one scum in that overlapping pool.

[Formerfish]

you don't see vezok as whiteknighting me in a scummy manner?

I see the obvious cognitive dissonance in his blind faith that you are Alquin and the refusal to even entertain the idea that Anx is trueclaiming scummy as fuck coming from Vezok. "He's Alquin? We have to save him he is town! That guy says he can literally find the main bad guy? Let's fucking lynch that shit!"

Over, are you town reading vezok or just not scum readinghhim?

[Formerfish]

Vote Aro

Not voting Anx today.

Over: can we talk about your Vezok town read and its origins?

[Formerfish]

Sure. I thought I developed the Vezok read in substantially in my iso.
What are you curious about

Let me look back and I will revisit this.

[Formerfish]

Checking in. Hate how Vezok flipped on UT, need to check that progression.I would like to Bane him if my check comes back the way I remember.

I would not like to trade, we need to lunch smart here and we barely get two in during the time, what makes anyone think we can get 3. I'll be back after work.

[Formerfish]

Vote Keep

Finishing my catch up tonight.

[Formerfish]

Boon Shadow

[Formerfish]

Prod received. I see I'm at l-2. You guys want a claim now or should I wait til someone shows intent?