Mini 1671 - Eclipse Mafia - Total Eclipse (Game Over)

[Juls]

VOTE: Sotty7 it's an honor my friend.

[Juls]

Oh geez, I should vote BBT.

Honorary FOS

for BBT for giving my husband nightmares in one of BBT's newbie games.

[Juls]

Oh geez, I should vote BBT.

Honorary FOS

for BBT for giving my husband nightmares in one of BBT's newbie games.

Hi! I miss him

It would be more surprising if he stuck around. He doesn't play much. I think us trying to hydra did him in. We play very different. He is very cerebral and I am very emotion/gut. In our hydra they just clashed instead of complimenting each other and it just came off as very forced.

[Juls]

You have town reads?

[Juls]

Garmr's very sexy his obviously town

How did you get the town read on me :p

Somethings...amiss...hmmmm....can't put my finger on it.

[Juls]

OK, I'm going to actually try to get this game started.

Why ABR as an RVS wagon? Do we really think someone as experienced as ABR is going to crack under the pressure of RVS? He's a bit of a veteran. I think the ABR wagon is a waste of time.

[Juls]

I'll answer that question once ABR gets here Juls. At least from my view anyway.

If you're keen to get things a-rolling, what do you think about Scarab's post 22?

Other than what I already mentioned about him/her having town reads already, not much. I had to go reread it cause I guess I glazed over the bottom part. Weak reasoning, a little verbose, but page 1...so.

[Juls]

Kinda wanna vote Sotty.

Why?

[Juls]

UNVOTE: Otty7
VOTE: Skold

[Juls]

Something like what? What do you want the mod to confirm exactly?

[Juls]

I am but I don't know what IC has to do with anything. Are we talking inexperienced challenge or is there another IC that I am not aware of?

[Juls]

OK...sorry I was thinking IC in terms of newbie games and was confused as hell.

[Juls]

I don't like how she said she was trying to start the game off and then didn't continue any of her thoughts for the next several posts.

I was trying to get the game pointed in the right direction. I didn't necessarily have deep thoughts on anything.

Jeanne such a waste burning your innocent child right now kinda ticked off at you so don't expect my sympathy.

VOTE: Juls

Juls gives me the hibbe jibbes Someone with her experience acting like this. It reminds me of the only played with her which she then said she's quitting mafia for good.

Garmr, this post is completely disingenuous and is meant as nothing more than a personal dig at me. The game I played with you and my reasons for quitting mafia had nothing to do with each other and for you to bring them up together is just trying to get a rise out of me. Also, someone with my experience is acting like what exactly? What thing did I do that shows my massive inexperience? That I thought IC was Inexperienced Challenged instead of Innocent Child? It was a simple mistake. I would really like for you to point out some specifics please. Until then, my vote will be on you. Must be my massive inexperience that is causing me to OMGUS. Or maybe it's that you are full of shit and are jumping on a wagon with stupid reasons.

VOTE: Garmr

[Juls]

Fuck off Garmr. You don't know me.

[Juls]

Please draw the parallels between this game and that game.

Also, if you did know anything about me, you would know that I really enjoy playing with ABR and I would much rather wagon someone who I could get information from based on the way they react rather than someone who isn't going to bat an eye.

Not really sure why you have taken this to a personal place.

[Juls]

Yeah you're not being personal at all. My mistake. Please, feel free to draw those parallels now.

[Juls]

Yeah you're not being personal at all. My mistake. Please, feel free to draw those parallels now.

Anytime would be great.

[Juls]

Even one example of a post there that makes you feel like a post here would be good.

[Juls]

Honestly Sotty, I have no idea while Garmr chose to attack me. The game I was in with him I made like 3 or 4 posts before replacing out due to another game issue. I'm not even sure I talked to him. I had to look him up to see what he was talking about. He can't raise any parallels because they don't exist. He was talking out of his ass and that is why my vote is on him.

[Juls]

Even one example of a post there that makes you feel like a post here would be good.

Welp your not getting one since it's just a similar gut feeling

I would rather focus on the abr comment which we can discuss in depth this game. You haven't justified it and the conversation has drifted a bit away from this since you focused on a gut feeling I had rather than the bit we can debate. It's seems like a way to try and stop a wagon which I don't see town doing it that way.

If I wanted to be a total bitch, I would say "gut" and "heebie jeebies". But I will refrain. I was asking the question in order to see what people's motivation were for running up ABR as opposed to someone else. Plus, I just like ABR and didn't really want to jump on that wagon.

but looking back over, juls is rather new it seems-
so actually more low hanging fruit...

unvote

Juls has 1 and a half pages under her belt (this is taking away all the other stuff she posts on) ;/ I think that it's safe to say she does have enough experience.

oh good lord, really? that is horrid- sigh...
well I may have to look at her further then as there is no excuse for not knowing what an IC is.

Well Sotty thought the same thing. She's been around longer than I have but we make no excuses. We are just mere women. You know, stupid and stuff.

[Juls]

OK...sorry I was thinking IC in terms of newbie games and was confused as hell.

I was actually thinking the same thing.

[Juls]

@Peacebringer - Can you please explain the following sequence of events for me:

1) vote for Juls (no reason)
2) unvote Juls (cause low hanging fruit?)
3) made aware that I have been around awhile
4) doesn't return vote to Juls

[Juls]

OK...sorry I was thinking IC in terms of newbie games and was confused as hell.

I was actually thinking the same thing.

ah, lost in a bunch of other stuff, easy for me to miss. Thanks...
now as to the rest of what I asked, why the need for the denigration?

Just me being pissy, apologies.

[Juls]

I often naked vote early to gauge reaction. I blatantly hopped on the wagon. No apologies about that.

[Juls]

I just like ABR and didn't really want to jump on that wagon.

Wait -- are you seriously saying that you allow your personal feelings toward fellow players to influence your gameplay?

Seriously?

Not when it gets serious. But we have already established I am inexperienced, low hanging fruit, and I apparently cry in real life. So sure, why not.

[Juls]

LOL. Really?

[Juls]

I can get on board with that...177 was ridiculous

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

[Juls]

I can get on board with that...177 was ridiculous

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

[Juls]

Because I have played/modded a lot more newbie games than I have played with Innocent Children. IC to me is and always will be Inexperienced Challenged. Also that exchange happened over the course of like 10 minutes, not days. I was real-time trying to figure out what she was talking about. It made sense once I realized what she meant.

[Juls]

Oh I forgot Prolapsed also made 72....yeah I am happy with my vote.

[Juls]

What specifically would you like me to explain ABR?

[Juls]

Prolapsed Brain has been all over the map and I am half tempted to hammer just because of his terrible reasoning around both the Juls votes so far.

I pretty much said why and you parroted it. So why are you so confused all the sudden?

[Juls]

Also, why exactly am I being blamed for his lynch? There were 2 votes after mine and a few before.

[Juls]

Skold was nothing more than a pressure vote. Yes I got over-emotional with Garmr...have you met me? Just ask your husband what a basket case I was in his Quickness Mafia game. I voted PB because his two comments regarding me were the least town-like and there are obviously scum people pushing me.

As for who is scum, it's hard to scum hunt when most of the attention is pointed at you. Again, check out your husbands game. Another reference of me not dealing well when I am under suspicion. I was town. But Ankamius, Zoro, and Peacebringer are on my radar. The only post of substance Anka has made is 95 which I found to be one of the weaker reasons for voting me. The rest is fluff. Zoro is kinda gut. There's something about his phrasing and his choice of things he is commenting on. It feels like noise, not scum hunting. And I am trying to decide how I feel about peacebringers vote of you coupled with his backing off of me so easily at the end of day 1. It's ringing of buddying and planning to not be on my inevitable mislynch.

I'm not really getting why you are calling ABR town based on his first D2 post. Can you explain?

My only town reads are BBT and Jeanne. I would have said you D1 but this swing is off-putting.

P-edit: hopefully this will answer some of your questions. I'll lay a vote down over the weekend, I want to reread everything.

[Juls]

I'll try to get to this today or tomorrow. Yesterday was busy and today may be too.

[Juls]

I haven't had time to look at this game. A lot of end-of-school-year stuff going on for my daughter. If I can't find time for it by end of day tomorrow I will replace out. Will try to get to it though.

[Juls]

Mod:

my sincere apologies, I am going to have to replace out. My schedule is just not coming together for this game. Every time I think I will have a free night something gets added.

Sorry everyone.

[Juls]

Mod: I see you still haven't found a replacement for my slot and my schedule is looking a little free-er. If so, could you give me 48 hours to catch up?

[Juls]

If so = if you want me to take my slot back

[Juls]

I'm at top of page 16, if I get my 48 hours I should be able to finish tomorrow. I will wait for mod permission before posting more.

[Juls]

I'm pretty much caught up. My notes are at home from my reading last night and I will re read/make notes on the last few pages tonight. In the interim, I'll just say that I am fine with either Skold or scarab with my preference being the latter. I'll do a big post tonight with all my reads/comments.

[Juls]

Ankamius 19 - enters the game and doesn't vote.

BBT 44/47 - I don't like that BBT says he wants to vote Sotty for 'not following

his

her doubt' but is doing the same thing but he also admits to doing the same thing so this is probably null.

Zoro 68 - Useless question for activity sake?

Zoro 94 - Another useless question.

Sotty 96 - I like that Sotty caught this about Zoro.

Zoro 97 - That's 3 useless questions. Does he follow up or express any interest in the answers?


Zoro 98 - OK, he does follow up on the first one but I am unsure why he feels Sotty's question was useless and I find it even more baffling that he is insinuating she is scum for 'asking meaningless questions' when that is all he has done.

PB 119 - This vote (on me) is pretty scummy. He is playing at 'catching up' but clearly knows I am the leading wagon so he puts his vote on me. At this point he has given no reason to vote me but he's put forth this charade to look like he is catching up.

PB 138 - Really bad reasoning for pushing me as scummy (that I didn't pick up on IC as Innocent Child). Says there is 'no excuse'. Still don't know why this was ever pushed as scummy.

Clusk 140 - I really like this post from Clusk. PB was instantly defending Skold as low-hanging fruit which makes me think he knows his alignment. If PB is scum, Skold is likely town.

Scarab 159 - I don't like Scarab white knighting me here. This is the second time it has happened. First being post 85

PB 173- Backs off me way too easy here.

Ankamius 212 - Seems like something scum would say.

Sotty 227 - Spent most of day one defending me then votes me out of the gate day two. The evolution feels unnatural.

PB 241 - Really hate this unvote of Sotty after Sotty calls him town. It feels like he doesn't want to push her because of it even though he just said her calling him town made him uncomfortable.

BBT 242 - feels like a prepared attack on Clusk. DOes he follow later with a vote, if not, null.

BBT 252/253 - There's the vote on Clusk with a little ABR-forgiveness. ABR/BBT could be buddies. Just a crumb if he needs it but gives him a pass.

Scarab 264 - What is being said here? What is the actual

reason

for voting Zoro?

Sotty 269 - Town points for Sotty for actually trying to parse what Scarab is saying and noting the odd thought process.

Scarab 271 - This explanation is not any better than the previous post. I don't get this thought process at all.

BBT 277/ABR 279 - More credence to these two possible being scum buddies. The interactions feel manipulated.

Scarab 283 - What is the town motivation of this post (not answering BBT's question)?

Scarab 287 - He/she is all over the place. Flailing.

ABR 302 - I really like this question from ABR. Seems like a townie question to ask.

Zoro 329/330 - still lots of questions with little to no analysis. Even when he does analyze it feels more like theory than scum-hunting.

ABR 332 - Where did this interest in a skold wagon manifest?

Zoro 339 - What the hell? Why no vote on Skold?

Skold 344 - Wasn't he calling me scum day one? Where did this change?

BBT 353 - WIFOM? It's pretty obvious. This ignorance seems put-on.

PB 358 - Really hate this vote on Skold

Red 375 - (aka giant post). I didn't read the stuff in spoilers. I'll try to be brief. Agree on Sotty for the most part. I wouldn't say she is 'masony' but one of my stronger town reads. ABR, I am fine with leaving him a lone for now. I haven't played with him in a long time (if at all?) when he was scum. I have played recentish games with him where he was town and I am not seeing anything crazy jumping out at me. BBT we are starting to disagree here. I found the ABR/BBT argument to feel staged. You just played with ABR as scum. Is this something he would do? On Zoro, we are the opposite. I find him to be one of my bigger scum reads. I just have not seen a single thing that makes me go "yep, he's scum hunting." I realize that's hypocritical of me given my state day one but that's how I feel. I agree on Clusk/sns, a weak town read based mostly on his post 140 noted earlier. PB is a big scum read for me, agreed. Scarab as well, so agreed.

As for your comments regarding me. I have already addressed my ABR 'attachment'. I didn't really want to push an ABR wagon. I wanted a wagon I felt better about. It's really not any deeper than I like ABR and didn't want to RVS him this game. Not sure I was 'pressuring' Peacebringer. I did ask him the question about why his vote didn't return to me. I was satisfied at the time with his answer. And the Brain did that awful vote on me and I switched gears. This all happened real time, we were posting back and forth so my vote on Brain was an in-the-moment read/vote. Let me be clear, I did think his vote reasoning was weak and I read that as scummy. I'm not trying to absolve myself from his lynch but I certainly didn't think he would be hammered. I think I put him at L-2. I agree with you that my performance D1 was bad so if I fell into ABR's 'trap' so be it. I hate when I am town and I play bad but then I am forced to justify bad play. I never really know what to say. So I will just own it. Do what you must with it. I had trouble getting into this game. But Sotty didn't have to tell me to scum hunt. Again, this all happened real time. Sotty said that whilst I was preparing a post with my thoughts/reads.

Red 387 - The points on Scarab are very well made here. Especially the part about jumping off because he/she didn't want to

look

scummy. This post sold me on Scarab-scum.

Snc 395 - I agree with what you say about BBT. I have never played with BBT but my husband did and I followed that game pretty closely. He was scum but he was very good at being analytical and giving lots of thoughts. I imagined at the time that his town-game would be very similar.
As to your comment about me, what interactions between Peace and I did you find 'fake'? I don't recall you mentioning this previously. (looks like this question was asked twice...did you answer?)

Scarab 402 - The fact that you read only the part about you in Red's post is scummy. That is a very scum thing to do, only be concerned with his read on you. It would seem to me that if you needed help getting acquainted with the game you would read his post because it was full of thoughts that might spur more thoughts for you. Also, your votes are all over the place. It feels like you are just throwing names at the wall to see what sticks.

BBT 409 - I like the point about Skold 'pre-emptively jumping on ABR'.

Zoro 420 - First post I actually like by Zoro. The pushing for ABR-scum reasons from Skold is a good push.

PB 423 - noting this in case Scarab flips scum.

Sotty 427 - Agreed. I have no true scum/town read on Skold but this can't be denied (that he is drawing out to deadline).


-----------

So my reads are Town to Scum (gaps for levels of reads):

RedCoyote (Ankamius)

- superb entrance into the game. Wiped away any negatives I was feeling about Ankamius. I don't agree with everything he says but I can still see town-motivations in the things he says.

Sotty7

- I didn't like her vote on me entering into Day 2 but everything else has been pretty good. I even liked her later-explained motivations for voting me (because of lack of scum-hunting).

----

snscompt1 (Clusk92)

- Light town read based primarily on the one question that Clusk asked PB about his defense of Skold. I really don't see that catch coming from scum.

Albert B. Rampage

- His play is fine. The only thing I have really noted is some manufactured-feeling interactions with BBT. I do wish he would participate more so I could get a better read on him. He is lacking some of the passion I have seen from him as town. Although that is relative with ABR.

BlueBloodedToffee

- I had him below this tier but moved him back up last minute. Something is off to me but he isn't the most scummy in the game. I felt early day one his play felt natural but I have noted a few things above that are a little concerning.

---

Skold

- I don't really have a read on his game play because he hasn't got much of that but I agree that his absense (not just being absent but the way he is being present as little as possible) can't be denied. I would vote him if we had a fast-approaching deadline.

---

PeaceBringer

- One of the main things about PB are his 'catch up' in which I feel he had predesigns to vote for me because I was the leading wagon and he manufactured his 'catch up' so he could do that and also the way he backed off of me once he started getting called out on it. And also some questionable votes/unvotes (see notes above)

Zoronos

- In 20 pages Zoronos has exactly one post that I feel like he is scum hunting. The rest are just noise. Even when he does 'analyze' it reads as theory. I couldn't tell you much about his feelings on the scuminess of anyone except for Skold.

Scarab

- Scarab has been all over the place and I think RedCoyotes case on him/her is pretty sound. Main points being: all over the place throwing darts at the wall to see which one will score and that he/she is trying to not 'look scummy' instead of being town. That's further evidenced by reading only the part about him/her in the RedCoyote wall.

VOTE: Scarab

Sorry for the wall...I'm tired now.

[Juls]

Siri, there is no excuse for you not voting with less than 24 hours to deadline.

[Juls]

Fuck you iPhone, I changed that twice!

Siri = Zoro

[Juls]

Nvm, missed the second extension but you still should have a vote placed.

[Juls]

So let's say your question is answered, you vote Skold anyway, then we get a claim. It's a solid claim. What then? Waiting until last second is a bad idea. I say anyone who hammers other than Equinox is tomorrow's lynch anyway.

[Juls]

Zoro, talk to me about someone other than Skold. What are your thoughts on Scarab? If you have said already please point me to it. I likely missed a few things.

[Juls]

Nvm, I ISO'd and refreshed my memory. So you think scarab is town. Who else would you vote if Skold weren't an option?

[Juls]

I don't think I want sns today but I do want him to answer what interactions he found fake between PB and I. I don't like the avoidance of the question.

[Juls]

I'd be willing to do a PB or Zoro in addition to Scarab. Skold would be deadline only for me I think.

[Juls]

Not to answer for BBT or anything but at the best it's anti-town so I understand his vote. What are your feelings on Sotty?

[Juls]

@Skold

What are your feelings on Sotty?

[Juls]

Skold, are you only capable of speaking to one person at a time?

[Juls]

VOTE: Peace - I'd rather try at this I think if there is support for it. Skold I am still not sure of. But his aloofness makes me think he is town. Does anyone have a town read on Peace?

Also, just so I don't forget, I still want

@sns

to say what interactions he felt were fake between myself and Peace.

Also, also,

@Skold

- The reason I am asking your opinion of Sotty is to determine your motivations for not answering her. If you are town, you need to answer other people's questions. Not doing so does not give the town (you know, the people who are allegedly your teammates) the appropriate information to make informed decisions. If you think Sotty is scum then maybe there is a

reason

for you to be reluctant to go down a line of questioning. But if you don't tell us what your thoughts are we can only fill in the blanks ourselves.

Also, also, also, where is ABR?

[Juls]

So just so I know if I need to move my vote back to Scarab, if I get say 2 more people to join a peace wagon, will you ditch your Sotty-promise? If not I will just go back to Scarab cause there isn't any use wasting my time if it aint happening.

[Juls]

Oh wow

are

were we the only two on Scarab?

[Juls]

This sucks, I'm able to play now and everyone is quiet. And we are 36 hours from deadline.

I saw ABR post elsewhere that he is V/LA until Sunday/Monday.
sns isn't posting here despite being active on site.
BBT is just not participating, at least not to the level I thought he would
Scarab is being replaced
and Zoro won't put a vote down

I don't see anyone else getting lynched but Skold.

[Juls]

Would much prefer peacebringer but I will be around if my vote is needed for Scarab-slot/sns/Skold

That one town question I mentioned by clusk bought a lot of town points for sns though from my pov. Sotty/red, vote peace!

[Juls]

Several questionable votes and backing off votes at interesting times. I explained in my larger post that I assume you didn't read.

[Juls]

Sharing perspectives and perceptions on varied posts.

Am I playing a different game than you? That's 3/4 of the definition of mafia.

[Juls]

When I levy an accusation that implies that I expect you to reply or acknowledge it in some way. Because I don't ask you a direct question does not make it that I don't want a reply. I may very well have asked some questions, not sure and too lazy to look back right now but regardless, you didn't respond or offer any defense. Saying "I use my vote differently than you" is not a defense. If you want questions:

1) Why did you vote me originally and what specifically caused you to back off as easily as you did?
2) When you did back off, why did you not return your vote once you realized your reason for unvoting was wrong (that I was a new player)? I know you answered this earlier but if you could go into more details I would appreciate it.
3) You said Sotty calling you town made you uncomfortable while you had your vote on her. Why then did you unvote her within like 3 posts after that?
4) Why have you jumped on every leading/flash wagon that has popped up?

[Juls]

I have said I would be here the whole time ready to move my vote if needed BBT (although I don't think Skold is scum).

I will hammer Skold in about an hour if equinox hasn't come back. I'd like him to give his thoughts since he will likely die tonight.

[Juls]

I didn't undercut your wagon. It was only you and I on it when I moved my vote. It was obvious that wagon wasn't happening.

[Juls]

This is turning into Oldie mafia

[Juls]

I have claimed intent but I will wait about 30 minutes from this post then hammer.

[Juls]

VOTE: pisskop
Also willing to vote Peacebringer, maybe Zoros. I could possibly be convinced to vote ABR or BBT as well since I am unimpressed with their contributions and have a tingling that they could be buddies.

People need to stop sitting on their votes today (I'm looking at you Zoros). There should be no reason for us to not have time to switch a wagon when most people felt Skold was town in the end.

Not sure why scum didn't kill Equinox but I hope he has time to share his thoughts today.

[Juls]

I do still want sns to explain "fake" interactions between me and PB. Thx for reminding me ABR.

[Juls]

Well I'm glad you cleared that up.

[Juls]

Juls, are you voting me for not letting you hammer. Really?

No. The hammer was necessary I don't care who it came from. I am voting you for being Scarab. See my big post. I'm on my phone so links are hard. If you can't manage, I'll link it at home tonight.

[Juls]

People need to stop sitting on their votes today (I'm looking at you Zoros).

FYI Skold parked his vote on me all of yesterday until his very last post. I don't know why you're singling out Zoros. Do you actually suspect him?

I do. He was asking several null questions early in the game and didn't seem truly engaged. Like he was asking questions just for town points. Then he wouldn't place his vote on Skold which bothers me a lot because I can see scum wanting to avoid vote count analysis. His end of day questioning was better but I still have him closer to my scum list than my town list. Also, why would I chastise Skold who is dead? I didn't have a problem with Skold having a vote on you. I had a problem with Zoros having his vote on no one.

[Juls]

So RC is obviously not scum. Still think BBT is. I do see how people scumread snsSlot but GC hasn't said much himself.

Oh fuck, that's right. GC replaced sns so I guess I won't get my answer....

[Juls]

Juls if I vote pisskop with you today you help me tomorrow when I need you, k?

We aren't lining up lynches. But yes, please join me on pisskop.

[Juls]

I will consider what you're selling, of course.

[Juls]

Zoro, what do you think of the pisskop slot?

He said scarab is town. Scarab is pisskop.

Zoro, having a vote in spirit and having a vote on someone are two different things. Older folks, such as many that you are playing with, pull all the mods vote counts and give analysis to who was on what wagon and when. If you aren't on those vote counts, your scum hunting is more difficult to analyze. Avoiding being on wagons is scummy. I know what you said and I know what you did. They do not match.

[Juls]

Happy Birthday GC!

[Juls]

@Sotty - Zoro could be town. I'm not 100% sold on him being scum because I did like the late day interactions with Skold. I could see that coming from town but the lack of vote and the early game weak questions are what make me lean scum on him. PK is by far my biggest scum read and it appears a lot of other people feel this way too. I'm really not sure how he avoided lynch yesterday. Two biggest points being that 1) scarab was concerned with not looking scummy more than scum hunting and 2) he read only the sections in Red Coyotes post about him which is such a scum thing to do. RC convinced me pretty heavily of this. Also PB is not a bad choice for reasons stated previously.

@BBT - What's your case on me exactly? if I recall you were pretty solidly calling me town until I started saying that you might be scum.

[Juls]

Because town voted me? Is that your case? How does that then line up with your own independent read of me? Also, apart from Skold, who only voted me early day one and was calling me town at end of day yesterday, nothing has changed between today and yesterday. You were still calling me town yesterday and telling people not to vote me. What is your big revelation here?

[Juls]

Again, Skold town read me at the end of day 2. It feels like you are picking vote counts to fit your argument and ignoring words said in game. Also you are picking vote counts from early day 1. GCs question is valid. Why those two? If we pulled vote counts from early day one on all games on this site, how many do you think I could find that were all town that ended up being correct?

[Juls]

Also, you ignored my question of how that lined up with your own read of me. If Skold was the driving force of your reread and he is the only vote you could color green from yesterday then how has something changed for you. Especially since Skold was calling me town when he died.

[Juls]

I'm regurgitating GCs point because you decided to hand wave it away as if it's not valid. So are we back to blaming me for PBs lynch? Gamr hammered, he was town. What else you got? Also, please tell me independently of vote counts why you think I am scum.

[Juls]

I'm regurgitating GCs point because you decided to hand wave it away as if it's not valid. So are we back to blaming me for PBs lynch? Gamr hammered, he was town. What else you got? Also, please tell me independently of vote counts why you think I am scum.

Still want you to address this BBt. My vote will be on you if you don't answer in your next post.

[Juls]

VOTE: BBT

[Juls]

Why should I answer you when you won't answer me?

[Juls]

I have asked you several times to tell me why I am scum independent of a vote count you pulled off of early day one. You won't do it. Shall I go find all the places you called me town?

[Juls]

Juls wagon is prob bad.

236 - Juls is town. This post reflects a lot of my own thoughts on the game. Juls wagon is bad.

282 - ABR, you have provided no reasoning for why Juls is scum. I believe Juls to be town, ergo, you're scum.

The only thing I can see for why you think Juls is scum is that she somehow should of stopped that mislynch from happening?
Why does this fall on Juls and nobody else?

290 - ABR, I said I was town reading Juls because a lot of her thoughts in the post I quoted mirrored my own. I can see them coming from a town mindset.

I also agree that Peace could be scum, but not Juls. Not much point discussing this further, we need the replacement.

456 - I have an active town read on the Juls slot and I have explained why I have it.

[Juls]

Oh, that question.

VCA says you're scum. I don't need anything else.

I'll keep my vote on you then.

[Juls]

You're welcome

[Juls]

And your conclusion is...

[Juls]

I was lightly suspicious of Prolapsed because of two weak reasons for voting me (first was that I didn't catch that IC meant Innocent Child and the second because of AtE when I made a self deprecating joke). I don't think it was a bad L-2 vote. Jeanne and Garmr hammered him while I was sleeping. If you want to ask Peacebringer why he voted him go ahead, I don't speak for PB. But the fact of the matter is that lynch "happened" because two town people put him at L-1 and hammered. That is not a scum driven wagon or a scum driven lynch, that is simply two townspeople quick lynching. You, bbt, defended my vote on that wagon so this massive shift by you is scummy to me.

[Juls]

Vote Count 1.3

Juls

(5): Skold, Ankamius, Prolapsed Brain, Garmr, PeaceBringer

Prolapsed Brain

(2): Albert B. Rampage, Scarab

Skold

(2): Clusk92, BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

(1): Juls

Zoronos

(1): Sotty7

Not Voting

(2): Zoronos, Jeanne11

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-24 15:00:00)

Reasons for people's votes on me:
Skold - because I naked voted him during a pressure wagon
Ankamius - can't tell if he was voting with Skold or what?
Prolapsed - Because I didn't equate IC to innocent child
Garmr - because I acted "similar" to a game we played together where I was scum. In that game I made like 5 posts and when pressed he couldn't provide a single parallel.
Peace - because he thought I was a new player/ low hanging fruit. When he realized I wasn't he changed his vote

This is why I have such a problem with you pulling that vote count. None of these are even close to solid reasons for voting me. The only one related to anything in THIS game is Skold and he was calling me town day 2.

[Juls]

V/LA

over the weekend.

[Juls]

@BBT - Prolapsed said I wasn't paying attention because I asked what Jeanne was having the mod confirm. Which was the whole IC thing. He voted me because he thought I wasnt reading while in fact I was just confused at what IC was referring to. I have a town read on GC. Originally it came from the Clusk slot, I wasn't crazy about sns but I wouldn't have called him super scummy either. GC has been good. I have a scum read on PK and would be vote them at any time. I've said this multiple times, how have you missed it?

Also, with regard to your question about why it's not scum driven it's because I am telling you the last 3 votes were town. I don't know who were the first few there, and phone posting so...But whoever they were, they were already there before me and PB jumped. Like I said, I don't know about PB but I know about the last 3 votes.

[Juls]

It would be different if that wagon sat there several days and I was pushing people to vote it. I literally voted with an "I can get on board with that", went to bed and woke up to him being lynched. This argument of yours is weak and flimsy. I still want you to explain how I am scum otherwise because going "lalala vote count" is a cop out.

Peace is my second highest scum read after pk.

[Juls]

Are you reading the game at all? THAT WAS DAY ONE!!!!! This is day 3. At that time I barely had scum reads. This argument is bull shit and you know it. Scum make bullshit arguments ergo you are scum. I'm done.

[Juls]

That doesn't even make sense. Yes, peace IS currently my second biggest scum read. When the wagon happened he WASN'T. Neither was Scarab for that matter.

And don't be patronizing with that 'sweetheart' shit.

[Juls]

Oh you're talking about your wagon. You're doing that all by yourself with your bull shit arguments.

[Juls]

As happy as you are with pushing bull shit arguments and being scum.

[Juls]

Go ahead and lynch me, just when you do, lynch BBT next.

[Juls]

I'm leaving now. Like I said, V/LA. In case you lynch me while I am gone, scum is in BBT, PK, and PB.

[Juls]

suspects at this point
Zoro
Juls
ABR

Why not pisskop?

We have a lot of conftown in this game

Why the ? Is that a scum claim?

[Juls]

Most interested in Equinox's thoughts, hope he shows up and plays. <3

+1

[Juls]

Either my Scarab read was wrong, or PoE says it's Juls, ABR, and Peace. I'll need to go back through that soonish.
Regardless, we're almost assuredly in LYLO, so role reveal o'clock.
<- VT.

Again, why not pisskop?

<=== Also, VT

[Juls]

Like everybody should have exactly 4 suspects and pisskop has now been left out of 2 lists.

I am pretty sure it's pisskop/PB and probably ABR. Zoro has some questionable things but that ABR hammer was ugly.

[Juls]

Town statement: Lots of conftown this game
Scum statement: Lots of conftown this game

See the difference?

[Juls]

[Juls]

Alrighty, so ABR wants to vote PK.

Which I appreciate, in the sense that ABR actually gave a proto-vote, as opposed to a useless 3-person mafia spec.

@PK:

who do you want to vote?

@Zoro:

who do you want to vote?

@Peace:

who do you want to vote?

@Juls:

who do you want to vote?

One name only.

GC if I figured that out I would be voting... right now tempted to vote zoro...

Pk

[Juls]

^ was in response to GC, not PB

[Juls]

So I am on everyone's scum list and that makes me scum? Why wouldn't it be the other way around? Only 1 of the people saying that is ACTUALLY town you realize?

[Juls]

ABR, we have two confirmed town alive. You aren't dictating any lynch. I am fine with GC and Equinox making the decision. If that decision is to lynch me, so be it, we lose but at least it will be town driven.

[Juls]

I don't really have anything to defend. I can't defend against Sotty's gut. What would you like me to defend exactly?

[Juls]

I hate to break the news to you GC, but there are no more information lynches. You lynch me and it's likely game over.

[Juls]

What do you need from me GC? I'll answer whatever questions you have.

[Juls]

Zoro, pretend PB is already dead and flipped scum. Who are his partners?

[Juls]

No. I think you're scum. You've been in step with Juls and setting me up as a mislynch today.

LOL? I have been scum-reading PK since day 2.

[Juls]

What? You'll have to do better than that. Show some quotes yo.

I already did. You both blew up at BBT and got him lynched. You both are trying to paint me as scum because I hammered.

I mentioned your hammer exactly once. Paranoid much?

[Juls]

"I killed Sotty exactly once". Okay?

What? Are you drinking?

[Juls]

No, I am asking you to show me some evidence that PB is scum with someone else. Like for instance, I would have to go back and verify but I don't recall a single interaction between ABR and PB. That may mean they are scum together.

I'm asking you to pretend we already lynched Peace and he flipped scum. Who do you see as his partners and why?

[Juls]

I have a 3/4 shot of being right on scum. I am town hunting at this point more than scum hunting.

[Juls]

Well, go scum.

[Juls]

Lol...stupid auto-correct is going to definitely get me lynched now.

That should be "gg scum"

[Juls]

You should really Unvote GC.

[Juls]

GC.....lets talk. As soon as they organize I am lynched. Please Unvote.

[Juls]

How irresponsible of you to just vote and leave and not even give me a chance to defend myself. This is BS.

[Juls]

Please Unvote first.

[Juls]

I was planning on analyzing all interactions between the 4 combinations over the weekend. You have:

ABR, PB, PK
ABR, PB, Zoros
ABR, PK, Zoros
PB, PK, Zoros

I wanted to see how they interacted with each other. I don't have time to do the analysis during the week. I work and can only phone post.

[Juls]

Thanks GC. I'll try to get to it tomorrow after work but NLT Saturday.

[Juls]

Ain't no thing. Tomorrow is Friday. Please do something fun after work.

I'm a 35 year old mother of two. 'Fun' is relative.

[Juls]

I went through ABR and PB today and made notes and left them at work :/ I will TRY to do it again tomorrow morning and do the other two as well.

[Juls]

So towns people, please don't vote me because pk is obviously scum. I am about 3/4 done with my analysis and am 99.9% sure that the scum team is abr, pb, and pk. I would like to be able to post it but if you are town and you vote me I will certainly get lynched. Please, just give me until tomorrow. I will try to finish tonight but I'm not sure I will.

[Juls]

ABR
----------
292 - Fluff question to Scarab (PK) about if I am manipulating BBT or if he is manipulating me.
306 - Banter with Scarab (PK) : "Did I stutter"
667 - Asks me why I am singling out Zoros.
670 - Banter with PK about RC flipping town. Asks him to write him a case on BBT so "I don't have to"
672 - More banter with PK.
674 - Asks me if he votes PK will I help him out tomorrow.
681 - Votes pk
754 - More banter with pk
834 - points out that I am "singling out Zoronod"
894 - tells pk that BBT isn't bad, just scum and his flip will be telling.
921 - asks bbt if we lynch pk, juls, pb in that order will we win.
960 - summary of reads entering day 4 : juls is 'worst', pk and I have similar leanings and on Prolapse wagon, pb has been bad and he and zoro have been at odds, zoro is consistent with his pb read and a newbie
974 - banter with pb and pk
977 - notes pk's scum group is ABR, zoro, Juls
995 - tells equi it needs to be pk or juls today
996 - hedges that pk and juls could be town but will do what he promised bbt
1012 - votes pk.
1017 - unvotes pk (3 min later)
1020 - asks pk to unvote him.
1023 - begs pk to unvote him.
1027 - says he thinks pk is scum and is in step with me.
1033 - blames me and pk for bbt lynch
1034 - again says me and pk are in step
1036 - responds to pk saying its obvious that bbt was town in twilight
1045 - asks pk who he wants to lynch besides abr and juls
1051 - says he didn't like Zoro popping in with his "hey guys I'm here" post


PB
---------
115 - votes scarab (pk)
120 - unvotes scarab, votes juls
149 - responds to zoro who claims pb said asking someone to play serious is scummy. Pb says he didn't call him scum.
151 - more discussion with zoro about the calling clusk scum.
156 - zoro questions him about why he felt clusk was town and he explains that it was consistent with town who respond to his pushes.
157 - calls zoros town
158 - tells zoros to check him out as SKOT
160 - responds to scarab (pk) asking him if he still hammers at L-1.
274 - responds to a post by scarab (pk) and asserts zoros is town.
352 - banter with scarab (pk).
378 - brushed off abr/bbt fight as a weak one.
732 - responds to zoros saying pb hasn't had substantive scum hunting by saying show him someone who has. Says zoros effort is weak.
734 - asks zoros what he is basing his scum reading of pb on.
735 - responds to zoros case on him.
736 - summary of reads: ABR: no idea, pk: cant sort, zoro: flipping back and forth
741 - says pk's scum reads are weak
743 - banters with pk who said he cant sort pb.
822 - new summary of reads pk probably town, abr concerning, zoro uninvolved, tunneling, and parking.
861 - accuses zoros of tunneling
938 - suspects are zoro, juls, abr
955 - says pk slipped his mind and is why he didn't include him in his suspicions
961 - asks abr why zoro and equi are town (?)
1058 - says zoros is stupid and dumb ass play, locked in on him with confirmation bias
1059 - more arguing with zoro, cause he has reduced it to abr/pb
1060 - more arguing with zoros, compliments his thought process but calls it weak
1085 - throws an insult at zoros
1100 - trying to 'break through stubborn perspective" of zoros

Scarab/pk
--------
11 - votes ABR
22 - unvotes ABR, calls PB his/her strongest town read
159 - friendly banter with PB. Responds to zoro defending his page 1 post
226 - says ABRs day opening post was 'beautiful'
264 - votes Zoros for defending him/her.
271 - long explanation of why he/she voted Zoros using PB in hypothetical
287 - unvotes Zoros after liking his explanation of his Scarab read
305 - expresses confusion at ABR asking him/her about me and BBT
310 - says he/she doesn't think either BBT/Juls are manipulating the other in response to ABR
402 - response to RC defending 'sheeping' of ABR
405 - gets a town read on pb from page 5 can't really explain though
406 - doesn't like pb 139 but...probably not a tell. Admits to skimming Zoro
pk replace in....
568 - pk notes ABR vs BBT is interesting
571 - agrees with Sotty's 237 by having a null town read on pb
573 - defends ABR from BBT suggesting ABR was deflecting onto Sotty
740 - Juls/PB are his 'fluffy' scum reads
749 - tells ABR he should vote BBT
920 - asks BBT whats the difference between ABR as lurkertown vs. lurkerscum
923 - asks ABR why he is now scumreading him
927 - says ABR is trying to cover for his hammer
940 - Scum suspects are Zoro, Juls and one of ABR/PB.
963 - says ABR is suddenly active since hammering BBT
976 - would vote Zoros or Juls
978 - reiterates order (Zoro, Juls, on of ABR/PB)
980 - says he isn't going to vote ABR when he can vote somebody he knows is scum
1010 - says ABR is carrying cross for BBT (sarcasm)
1013 - votes ABR for 'bleeding heart bullshit'
1014 - asks GC to join him voting ABR
1024 - unvotes ABR 8 minutes after he votes him
1026 - asks Zoro why we are going to lynch PB today
1044 - says PB is lurking, Juls is active lurking
1047 - tells ABR he is infuriating (for not reading?)
1048 - not a fan of PBs lurking
1049 - says ABR lurked midgame until BBT-hammer
1094 - votes Juls


Zoronos
--------
68 - Asks Sotty why she picked out Scarab (pk)'s 22 specifically to question
98 - Defense of scarab (pk) as making a dumb joke
100 - More defense of scarab (pk) to Sotty
148 - tells pb that telling someone to play serious is not scummy
150 - asks what pb learned from his interactions with clusk
155 - responds to skolds vote of pb and says he isn't ready to pass judgement yet
240 - not willing to vote Scarab (pk) at this time. Expresses suspicion of skold voting pb in the middle of his questioning of him.
284 - explains to scarab (pk) why he thinks he/she is town. (that scarab said he/she was glad Garmr died)
285 - asks Skold to expand on his reasons for thinking ABR is scum
330 - asks ABR to talk to him (about Skold, anyone else)
386 - recognizes RCs reason for suspecting Scarab (pk) but still likes his town read on him.
420 - asks Skold to explain why ABR is scum.
428 - explains why he is reluctant to vote Scarab (pk) (scarab's reaction to Garmr's death and he/she attacked him because of the read)
445 - sees RC's point about scarab but doesn't think its the most likely chain of events
451 - Asks RC for a compromise choice not including SKold/Scarab
499 - +1'd a comment of Sotty's asking for Skold to explain why ABR is scum.
510 - again states he thinks pk is town.
530 - asks for further clarification from Skold on ABR being scum
534 - insinuates ABR is playing badly but not scum
537 - points out a post from ABR that he thinks is town
548 - explains his viewpoint of Skold vs ABR
694 - still thinks Scarab (pk) is town, votes PB
714 - liked scarab more than pk, notes pk as being a revisionist after RC died but still likes for town
824 - mentions ABR was blaming me for Prolapse lynch, not BBT
867 - a little explanation of his peace read to BBT but doesn't really say anything definitive
868 - long explanation of PB-scum read. boils down to back tracking and deflecting
945 - says he is either wrong about Scarab (pk) or its me, ABR, pb
971 - wants to vote peace, had thought ABR, PK, PB after analysis but ABRs response to ? changed his mind
984 - Juls/ABR link, peace is the lynch least likely to lose
986 - explanation of why PB is least likely to lose lynch.
993 - tells GC he has to change his mind and asks if ABR/Juls are bussing pk
1053 - response to me (misunderstood question). Insinuates he will have to make a peace vs. ABR choice (I presume in 3-way LYLO)?
1056 - explains to pk why he wants to vote pb
1083 - asks Pk what he thinks of his pb case
1086 - chastises PB for personal attacks
1099 - begs pk to work with him
1108 - implores pb to change his mind if he is town


So I only focused on interactions and mentions of the four suspects amongst each other. Here are my findings:

ABR has 26 posts in which he is interacting with/mentioning the other 3. Of those, a massive 22 are interactions with PK. That is unnatural. Compare that with only 4 for Zoro and 3 with PB. The interactions with Zoro are benign, not really interacting at all, more simple acknowledgements of other peoples (mine) comments on him. The pb interactions are even worse because he banters with him once, and has him in reads list the other two.

PB's interactions are mostly with Scarab/PK and Zoros. The interactions with scarab are mostly fluff (see 115, 120, 160, 352, 743). Only once does he mention scarab/pk in a game context (741) where he says Scarab's reads are weak. Two things really caught my attention in PB's interactions though. First, was his summary of reads in 736. On the 3 other suspects his reads are "don't know", "can't sort", and "flipping back and forth". This really reads as keeping his options open to jump which ever way that day swings. Second, and the most damning for me, is in 1100. He has been calling Zoro scum for most of the day but he says "I am just trying to break through your stubborn perspective". That's a slip. He is acknowledging that he KNOWS Zoros is town but that he is being stubborn. When I read this, my 75% certainty jumped to 99.9% certainty.

Scarab/PK was a little hard to go through admittedly without OMGUS but I tried to be impartial. I've already mentioned all the interactions with ABR. The biggest thing that struck me with him is the evolution (or more apt, lack there of) of his reads. On Day 3, post 740, he says me and PB are is scum reads. He starts the day with his scum suspects as Zoro, Juls, ABR/PB in that order (post 940). He reiterates in 976 he will vote Zoros/Juls. Reiterates again in 978, same order. Where did his scum read of PB go? In 980 he says he isn't going to vote ABR when he can vote someone he knows is scum. Then he votes ABR in 1013 and unvotes him 8 minutes later in 1024. Similarly, ABR votes (post 1012) and unvotes pk (post 1017) within 5 minutes. It all reads as setup. He quickly drops all suspicion of ABR and starts talking about me once GC indicates he will vote me. He only mentions PBs lurking but never indicates his willingness to vote. The drop off of Zoros is the only thing that gives me a connection here (and Zoros calling him town most of the game which I will get to next).

Lastly, Zoros. As far as interactions with the other 3, they are mostly with Scarab/PK and PB. He asks a few times for Skold to explain his suspcions of ABR and asks ABR to talk to him at one point but thats pretty much it. With Scarab, Zoros spends several posts defending scarab in the early game and kinda keeps that town read throughout the entire game. The only note of frustration with PK comes in 1083 and 1086 where he is asking pk to respond to his case on pb. He has held a suspicion of pb since around 868 (maybe earlier?).


So if I had to break it down by most to least likely partners, it would be:

ABR--->PK, PB, Zoros
PB --->PK, Zoros, ABR
PK --->ABR, PB, Zoros
Zoros--->PK, PB, ABR

If you want to break that down by points (3 to highest propability , 1 to lowest) you have:
PK (3+3+3) = 9
PB (2+2+2) = 6
ABR (3+1+1) = 5
Zoros (1+2+1) = 4


That's all I got, do with it what you will. GC, I ask that you at least read it. And you too Equinox. I'd love some feedback.



VOTE: PK

[Juls]

UNVOTE: PK
VOTE: PB

[Juls]

Honestly, I think this setup was SO EXTREMELY town sided. You guys had 3 confirmed townie and a bodyguard to protect them. If Jeanne hadn't outted Day 1, there could have been 3 confirmed town against 3 scum and a wild card despite us playing a perfect game. Not very good odds for us.

[Juls]

By the way...all we had was daytalk...3 goons.

[Juls]

Yeah RC and Sotty getting killed over IC only speaks to their skill.

[Juls]

Dead thread?

[Juls]

I think the only thing this setup needed to be a bit more balanced was to make the Masons Mason-Lovers or do away with the innocent child. Or replace it with a non-town confirmed role. I mean 3 townie confirmed is tough to overcome (but...in the good news department...something about this game gave me a good setup idea...though I doubt I will ever have time to run it). I just think if one of us had got lynched early on, then town would be so OP. We only won because we didn't get lynched.

With regards to Garmr. I played up my 'emotional reaction' some. Town Juls tends to be emotional. Juls in general tends to be emotional. It's something I am working on. I think you hit below the belt somewhat too with the pirate mollie comment. She and I have spoke in private, there was no reason to say that shit.

I probably like playing with ABR more when I don't know his alignment. Our play styles are so different as scum. I am very cautious and he is very <insert word that's not cautious>. I love ABR, still and forever, but that was like playing a game within a game being scum with him. It's not bad, just different. I like Scarab and pk as well. Scarab I think would agree she was a little lost in this game. PK was an interesting style and I had never played with him before. Would like to again.

As always, I love RC, Sotty, GC, etc. You guys are scary good as town.
BBT, I have admired you from afar (as previously mentioned). I don't think you played your best game here and I feel guilty I had to play on that. But I still think you are a fantastic player. I look forward to playing with you again!

Everyone else, really enjoyed the game.

[Juls]

Scum qT okay to release.

+1

[Juls]

Oh and the replace out was legitimate. I was still going to follow the game when I could. When my schedule died down and the mod still hadn't found a replacement I decided to hop back in. No strategy there.

[Juls]

OK, we might have a bit of miscommunication going on. When I quit, it was because mollie and I fought in a game. I was more upset because I perceived a serious female vs. female dynamic going on in a lot of my games. I had recently had similar run-ins with farside. I was pretty annoyed by the whole dynamic and I decided I didn't want to play. When I posted about my brain tumor, mollie reached out to me and we talked (a little) and I think the issue is resolved.

I think you are talking about a separate issue that you had with mollie then?

[Juls]

my question is why didn't anyone kill the ic after night 1.

Cause they weren't playing. Better to have the dead weight IC around than have to try to contend with RC or Sotty. GC was next in line too...lol.