Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[Garmr]

IF you are happy and you know it vote for woodywoodpeaker


VOTE: woodywoodpeaker

But seriously never try to undersell yourself

The reason given doesn't make sense for a vote. Looks like she's not being truthful

It's a common approach in games to focus first on reading people you're familiar with. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't believe my explanation unless you thought the only purpose of a vote was to express suspicion, which is something that would surprise me since I thought you were a much better player than that.

Apparently I'm not a very good player at all, I definitely think I'm better than I actually am but I suck.

And yes the point of a vote should be to pressure or express suspicion. There's other ways to communicate what you were trying to do without voting.

I honestly think you didn't read the spoilers (I know I hadn't yet) and instead of owning up to it came up with something else.

It just makes me think your scum.

[Garmr]

But seriously never try to undersell yourself

Why would that make you think I'm scum?

Because its like preping yourself in case you do something stupid

[Garmr]

Aka you can use it as a excuse latter on only scum need that kind of excuse

[Garmr]

Keep the walls to a Minimum early game please

[Garmr]

Your current mistake is not having a vote in play.

Well I have to have a reason to vote somebody and right now I don't have one.

Keep the walls to a Minimum early game please

Skip them if they bug you.

What do you think of nacho?????

[Garmr]

Keep the walls to a Minimum early game please

Is it annoying to see walls of text when you already know who is mafia and who is town?

Not really when thor was my scum buddy in my first game with him I loved it. It depends on case by case bases.

[Garmr]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

[Garmr]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

Okay, we can play 20 questions, let me try to phrase this correctly for you;

Please share your opinion of Nacho's alignment along with a few explanatory thoughts.

I don't like this psot post

Took a while to find some games, you have a few games where I guess you played with somebody. I.will say I lol'd at the game where you posted I am Groot all game

VOTE: unvote

It was a fun game!

But seriously never try to undersell yourself

First of all, if it was actually Woody's intention to undersell himself to cover up for mistakes down the road, do you really think he would have included the "

apparently

I'm not as good a player I think I am" bits? It seems to me like if he was trying to make himself look like a bumbling VI, he wouldn't include the parts about him thinking he's a good player.

Second of all, why do you think that scum would actually attempt a strategy like that? I don't really think that townies not being confident in their own play is all that uncommon, so it doesn't seem like that reliable of a scumtell to me, even if there's some reason that I'm not picking up on for scum to do it.

I'm kinda fascinated by this because you discussing your ability to read me well seems almost like a threat. We've only played two games together - both times I was town. I'm going to pretend you feel threatened by me being such a great player since forming a read on me is, after all, your highest priority.

I've seen your towngame twice. I think that if there's something off with your play, I'll be the first to pick up on it, and am the only player in the playerlist who actually posts a meta-threat to you. Forcing a hypothetical you!scum to react to me specifically makes your job harder and also, in some strange inexplicable way, makes me focus in heavier on you so that I can catch you early if you are scum.

I'd like to hear from the remaining players before I place a vote.

Why? Who would you vote here if you didn't arbitrarily decide to wait for everyone to post?

The other is reaction testing a specific person to see if they rise to the bait - 'scum in other games means you must be scum here'.

This is assigning purpose to a vote that didn't have any.

VOTE: WoodyWoodpecker

I don't like that he says he's a bad player, I especially don't like 51 where he says he'll probably do something stupid.

I hate this vote.
You're sheeping Garmr without being honest about the fact that you're just sheeping Garmr.

It's a valid opinion but not really alignment indicative one. I really don't like how defensive this post is over woody. I don't know if it means his scum or his just someone who's going to clash heads with me over this game.

[Garmr]

Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.

I like the idea of day 1 Ciara lynch. IRL, I can respect putting college before mafia, and if that's what's going on, that's what's going on. But in the context of mafia, Ciara has felt lurky, and I agree that the scumhunting from her has been weak.

I'll sheep your vote. Let the pressure begin!

UNVOTE: WoodyWoodpecker I went and read a town game of yours last night, and this is basically how you played that game, too... you seem very agitated to me, but who knows what that means. I still would not be adverse to lynching you today. You've interacted with a lot of people, and you flipping scum would practically be game over.

VOTE: Ciara

I don't like this post to say some one is lurky after only a couple of days RL is unjustified and reachy.

[Garmr]

Garmr appears to have not seen 105. I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to 106. How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

I gave an honest answer and used an example I don't see that's a scum slip. You through aren't really good at hiding the fact that your scum your like two different people.

VOTE: Dave

[Garmr]

I don't mind woody as much anymore but dave and karmic are pretty high on my scum list.

[Garmr]

Can you link me that game

[Garmr]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

Okay, we can play 20 questions, let me try to phrase this correctly for you;

Please share your opinion of Nacho's alignment along with a few explanatory thoughts.

It's a valid opinion but not really alignment indicative one.

I really don't like how defensive this post is over woody. I don't know if it means his scum or his just someone who's going to clash heads with me over this game.

So...you *don't* have a valid opinion on him then?
Because saying you don't like a post and then not calling the post scummy or towny is calling it null...which is not an opinion, and makes one wonder the point.


Garmr is a scum read now.

You should sheep me.

I don't trust you, why would I sheep you?

You should actually sheep me since I'm actually voting near confirmed scum. No way town does what karmic did

You should sheep me for yucks, if nothing else.

If your wagon on Karmic gets bigger than my wagon on Ciara then I'll move.
Since that is not currently the case I see little value in wagoning with you, and see a lot of value in you wagoning with me.

So if somebody said you were a good player and you knew you weren't as good as they think you were, you wouldn't correct them? I really find that hard to believe.

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

He's done more productive things than you...
Could you describe how his posting is unproductive? I will agree it is spammy - but I really disagree that it qualifies as actual spam, and find a lot of content in his posts.
Did you even read them?

I initially scum read him for it but then I thought about it more after you asked why and reflected on it was unfourtantly neutral. I still don't like how he dared challenged on woody after last game that game still grinds my gears till this day when it was so fucking obvious who the fucking sk was and he was the first and only person ever to lynch me in a mylo and it was a mislynch. But anyway that's my answer like it or lump it.

[Garmr]

I lump it.

Push me for it please I work best under pressure.

[Garmr]

I lump it.

Push me for it please I work best under pressure.

I am pushing Ciara - what is your take of my case on her?

1. I don't trust anyone I don't have a town read on, the fact you called me town based on basically nothing still doesn't sit well with me either

Learn how to play town.

2. I think the issue is I am not seeing a case at all. You say her responses were "wonky" which really doesn't say much and that you feel she is attacking/throwing dirt on you but idk if I really see that. I'll have to re-read her posts again.

To go with the 'wonky' and ignore the more specific issues I raised in the same post is frustrating to me.
How do you think her reaction to, let's say, specifically the 'obstructionist' conversation made sense?
She attacked me for something I said I did, when it was clear I never did it. Then ignored when I said I didn't do it and kept pushing. Then I pointed it out a third time and pressed for her reasoning and got a 'ooops!' as a response with no further scumhunting.

If her goal of pushing a BS point was to scumhunt me - okay, i get the push on emptiness, that makes sense to me.
But when the emptiness is pointed out and you drop all communication...then it doesn't look like a push to get a read on me anymore, it looks like a push that she thought was valid.
But why ever think it was valid as *literally* the only evidence that it had happened was me saying it had - which suggests she was not reading for comprehension, but reading for tells to push.

What are your thoughts on the case now?

Tbh you are writing way to much I just generally skim it but after reading seira iso by itself and your case against I can't really say it's a strong case it's a long case because you tend to stretch things out more than it's needed but when you condense it down into digestible form it's really just meh.

Your first reason I could gather because ciara asked you what you thought was scummy. That was a bad reason but early game so yeh. Your next reason is because seira accused you of sheeping nacho. That itself does have a little merit but people do presume things. So I would keep my eye on her but it's not really a big deal.

To be honest I don't think you really have a credible case.

[Garmr]

Garmr, how did you interpret 71, which your 72 was replying to?

Sarcastic maybe, a bit of a loaded question through if he wanted me to take it seriously. So I answered In a way I thought karmic wouldn't expect.

[Garmr]

Can you link me that game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62630

I'm sorry to say but that's different to his behavior here it's pretty easy to notice if you know what you are looking for.

Davesaz tends to have a harder time as scum to produce scum reads thus his post tend to end up more like this.

Garmr appears to have not seen 105. I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to 106. How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

The bit that rings scum most to me is how he slips into his scum territory here. As scum he is more likely to make accusations while as town it's more like a slow grind. Also looking at the way dave is acting around nacho it reminds me of certain situation with him and a dragon which I can't elaborate on.

Also

eventi, I will ask you the same thing I asked pistachion

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

You are responsible for about 1/3 of the posts to this point. Even if I wanted to look elsewhere it's like I have something jumping up and saying "LOOK AT ME" every time I look away.

I don't really buy the argument of not being able to see anything in the thread because one poster dominates. This sounds like scum planting seeds on a PL, as well as an excuse for bad reads later.

This is what I also expect from a scum dave more of this behavior.


@thor I feel my case is more credible and sheep worthy.

[Garmr]

Cheers, I'll give that a read later!

So, did you read it?

Garmr: You discredit both Thor and Nacho in one post, without actually calling them scum in #124, can you please give an explanation for both these comments?

I don't like this post to say some one is lurky after only a couple of days RL is unjustified and reachy.

Another scumread on Karmic now? Garmr, who is scum?

I don't mind woody as much anymore but dave and karmic are pretty high on my scum list.

If these guys are scum, how are you reading Nacho, Karmic and Thor now?

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

VOTE: woody

Really? I'd say Woody is generating quite a lot of discussion. Do you think that's not productive?

Is anyone familiar with Radja's meta, in particular whether a slow start is normal?

I'm mostly a slow starter yes. In this particular case, I was spectating the end of the Survivor game last night which kept me from posting in some of my mafia games. I do have plenty of reads in this game though. Which I'm sure you'll find.

I've played a few games with Radja where he's been town (I also think he's had a public alt) and the slow start isn't normal. I've not played a scum game with him.

Really? You don't think I'm a slow starter? Cool! The link I provided about Woody is my scumgame. In case you're interested.

I think I might sheep Thor for now.

VOTE: Ciara

I didn't discredit thor in post 124 I anwsered his question about what I didn't like about nachos post in 124. I orignally thought nacho post came off as scummy but after thinking about it more and putting preducies aside it's more neutral but I dislike how he challenged me on the read and failed to deliver.

another scumread??? You do realize there's multiple scum in this game right it's not just one guy/girl Also I'm not scum reading thor or nacho at the moment I have layed out my scum reads davesaz and karmic (woodys not on there anymore).

Also why can't davesaz and karmic not be scum together? Through I haven't seen any behavior that links them yet and I learned it's not the best to throw association tells out before a lynch Tell me why you are implying these can't be scum together what information would lead you to that conclusion?

[Garmr]

@nacho if you actually read the game you would of realized I was scum reading you when I said that and when thor asked me to elaborate it fell to more a neutral read after I thought about it more.

[Garmr]

Garmr, you have confused playstyle with meta. I don't make aggressive accusations as either town or scum, especially D1. I do tend to ask oblique questions as both alignments. Occasionally it actually finds scum, but the primary reason is to gather information.

Have a look at this game. The position you are taking here is similar to Whatisswag in that game. The main difference so far is that you have not yet made the error of calling me a liar. If you'd like to look further there is a pretty extensive list of games on my wiki page.

What I see is different from that but it's hard to explain differences in behavior because I found your scum game a little bit more baseless and aggressive. Through I have been wrong sometimes in the past sometimes I really don't think this is the case.

[Garmr]

@Davesaz link the games we played together please because i only remember 2 we only played two and ones ongoing and the other one I was scum.

[Garmr]

Links for completed games in common with Garmr:

Masquerade (you replaced out)
Apocalypse (you replaced out)
Picking Simplicity (you were scum)

Well in the first and last game I was scum and the middle game I said I didn't have enough to read you yet.

[Garmr]

@thor You know there really isn't much merit on your case on ciara after my post saying why I thought it was null you just pretty much said this.

To be honest I don't think you really have a credible case.

What case do you currently find more credible and why?
If the answer is "none" why can't I get a sheep from you?

This makes me feel very uneasy because instead of trying to justify your case and why it's right you instead were deflecting it with another question. This means you know it weak (which at the start of any game is understandable) but the fact you continue to push that this is the right place and trying to get people to sheep it makes me concerned and tbh I am getting a little paranoid over that wagon and you.

[Garmr]

VOTE: karmic guide
for reasons previously stated and and a dave wagon doesn't seem to be happening today.

[Garmr]

@Garmr: Can you expound on why you think Karmic is scum? All I see for your reasoning is this post:

I don't like this post to say some one is lurky after only a couple of days RL is unjustified and reachy.

Also, you never really explained your scumread on Dave either, so please expound on that too.

Simple dave is a meta read and it's explain maybe you just don't have the ability to read.

I don't like the fact karmic guide was trying to portray ciara as a lurker when it had been like one day at most since ciaras last reply. That seems extremely scummy to me.

Also I find it funny people are listing me as a scum read yet no reason has ever been listed it's pretty pathetic and makes me smirk a little.

[Garmr]

explained.*

[Garmr]

I would appreciate less insults in you answers because, again, I have only seen one post from you that explains your Dave scumread:

I gave an honest answer and used an example I don't see that's a scum slip. You through aren't really good at hiding the fact that your scum your like two different people.

VOTE: Dave

Your reasons for the Dave and Karmic scum reads are weak at best. If you want people to believe your reads, you need to offer more explanation than that. It almost seems like you're trying to get away with offering minimal explanations in the hope that we will just believe you and leave you alone...

;/ the same could be said for every scum read presented so far in this game. What I have noticed through is you haven't really pushed anything and have just stated facts. The closest to a actual push is on thor and even then you were pretty quick to back off and just take little swings at him instead of committing and actually pushing him hard.

It almost seems like you're afraid to get yourself into confrontation because it will draw peoples attention to you.

[Garmr]

;/ the same could be said for every scum read presented so far in this game.

Weren't you just complaining to me about how my reads are weak?
Why are you acting like it's a blow-off question now (though, I agree, it *is* a blow-off question) if you thought it was a valid issue to raise against my case on Ciara?

Differences is I wasn't trying to push having weak reads day 1 as a scum thing which gimiler is doing. I just personally don't think ciara is scum. If your asking what made me doubt your validity is your 191 which felt like it was trying to dodge and still get my vote on the wagon which doing both in the same post is a nono in my book.

VOTE: pista

Thor and Garmr are town.

Bella knows what's up well at least on my part. I'm honestly not to sure on thor since I know he has the gift of the gab.

@Garmr: Can you expound on why you think Karmic is scum? All I see for your reasoning is this post:

I don't like this post to say some one is lurky after only a couple of days RL is unjustified and reachy.

Also, you never really explained your scumread on Dave either, so please expound on that too.

Simple dave is a meta read and it's explain maybe you just don't have the ability to read.

I don't like the fact karmic guide was trying to portray ciara as a lurker when it had been like one day at most since ciaras last reply. That seems extremely scummy to me.

Also I find it funny people are listing me as a scum read yet no reason has ever been listed it's pretty pathetic and makes me smirk a little.

"Lurky" was apparently not a great choice of words for this group. I recant it, if I have not done so already. I felt, and still feel, that Ciara's post were not contributing much to town. Maybe I should've called it active-lurking, but I thought the point was clear enough.

Gummy asked me why I didn't vote them instead for not posting at all, and I explained that (aside from forgetting they existed) I don't typically vote people who contribute zero. It's the mod's job to prod people, not mine. Lynching the person with the absolute least number of posts is a terrible D1 policy lynch, because you learn nothing from it.

As for you, Garmr

1.) You put a 2nd vote on Woody for "underselling himself," which is a pretty nonsensical reason to vote someone. While Woody is still high on my scum list, this seemed really non-committal.

2.) You were also the one who asked for walls to be kept to a minimum early on. Scum don't want to read walls, because they know who is what. Everything in a D1 thread is either bullcrap or bad news to them, so walls are really annoying.

3.) I don't know what the whole "what do you think of nacho???" thing was, but I don't like that when Thor asked you basically the same question, you said "yes." As in, you have a valid opinion of him, but aren't sharing it yet. You did eventually elaborate by saying that you thought he was scum, changed your mind, and are mad at him for not spotting an SK in a previous game. (A ridiculous thing to be mad at someone for.) I kind of don't buy any of that. At the very least, it's flip-floppy.

To further expound on this... if you're scumhinting, you'd share your opinion of him, one way or the other. If you're hunting for Town PR's, however, and think Nacho is something, that would explain the "yes" with no follow up.

4.) The more I read over this game, it's a lot of you saying "I like this" and "I don't like this." When you do explain yourself, you do a reasonably good job, but those explanations are few and far between, and peppered with character assassination.

Ciara wasn't contributing enough to town? That's a big change in things from lurking and lol at the time ciara had a decent amount of posts. So that isn't really even a reason. Your stretching more than a gym instructor in yoga pants. It feels liek you were just trying to find a reason why to place your vote on the wagon.


1.Well it was a serious vote coming out of rvs and I wanted some pressure on that slot as I didn't understand why people (thor and nacho) were instantly town reading it and I found that bit really quirky as I found newbie scum trying to do this before. Once the game progressed I felt better about the slot.

2.Town shouldn't read walls on page 2 and 3 when there's pretty much nothing to go but rvs who the fuck makes walls out of rvs posts and a question about why did you vote me. I could pretty much say what thor was saying in one easy to read paragraph which I did. I know thor he makes a novel out of a page and thankfully he did cut down on the walls a bit so that makes me happy.

3. I was going to answer thors question anyway so me fucking around with thor a bit is all in good fun for me.You don't fucking know what I lost in that game. I lost a friend who never talks to me anymore and pretty much ignored any attempt to patch things up with her after that game. That game was a pretty emotional game and nacho can attest to that. Also you accusing me of role hunting which is almost a big of stretch as your lurker thing. your really reaching for this.

4.) I have trouble with words sometimes but I eventually do get it right. But I have pretty much explained everything I have said and like you have said I have done a pretty good job. Also saying that i use character Assassination as to undermine my the fact my points are pretty valid is pretty shit lol. I can be extremely snarky as town or scum so me making snide remarks about someone (I try to keep them tame and about in game content only so i don't get banned again) is pretty bad.

Seriously I think your inexperienced with scum. Throwing stuff out which doesn't make sense if you look at it a little closer. Throwing wild accusation like his role hunting and trying to tell his scum team he thinks nacho is a role through I tend to role hunt as town as well which I can provide examples for but I wasn't role hunting here ;/ and finally changing oh she's lurking into oh she hasn't produced much content is very different and both are very wrong.

So what we have you doing here is Backtracking,mudthrowing,reaching,Finding a excuse to jump on the lead wagon there's a plethora of reasons why you are scum.

[Garmr]

so saying me making snide remarks about someones gameplay is scummy is quite a bad example.*

[Garmr]

;/ the same could be said for every scum read presented so far in this game. What I have noticed through is you haven't really pushed anything and have just stated facts. The closest to a actual push is on thor and even then you were pretty quick to back off and just take little swings at him instead of committing and actually pushing him hard.

It almost seems like you're afraid to get yourself into confrontation because it will draw peoples attention to you.

I asked Thor some questions in an attempt to get a read on him, and he answered them in a satisfactory way. I may not like his reasons, but at least he has explained his reasons. You have yet to explain what about what about Dave's meta makes him look scummy in this game or why Karmic's posts actions have been scummy.

Yes, in Day 1 we don't have much to work with, but you could at least do a better job of explaining your scum reads.

I can explain davids scum read but it has to do with a ongoing game where we have both flipped. It's bad manners to discuss ongoing games so yeh. Dave responses to me should tell you that he knows where I'm coming from what his trying to debate is I'm wrong with them.

But if you want karmic's read well your in luck because that's what I'm discussing at the moment.

[Garmr]

Some people are due for prods

[Garmr]

@thor As of 268 karmic has the most/best reasoning and the only wagon I shall support today do you wish to contest it

[Garmr]

Thor is town bc of his response to my question about who is scum-reading him and why. Garmr is a gut read, and a really odd one - some of it is meta, based on the Ori game, some of it is the fact that he's saying what I'm thinking at points.

Pista just seems really reachy for me, but it's a weak read and I'll move to karmic if I need to closer to deadline. I'm worried about the lurkers, too :S

Which game is the ori game again

[Garmr]

@thor As of 268 karmic has the most/best reasoning and the only wagon I shall support today do you wish to contest it

What are you asking me if I contest?

1. That the wagon on Karmic has the best/most reasoning? (I think this is objectively a laughable concept, but people often have different opinions about such matters)
2. That it is the only wagon you'll support for the nonce? (I see no point in debating a soft adherence such as that, as it is both changable and, currently, meaningless)

So, no, I don't contest either based, not on acceptance of them as good play, but rather because it seems silly to actually debate either concept.

So what do you think of the wagon I presented

[Garmr]

Vote: Ciara

I think the Karmic wagon is a pile of garbage. I'm surprised I'm the only person with this opinion.

I think your reads this game are a pile of garbage if you are town.

[Garmr]

It's time to join the Karma wagon if you want to actually want to lynch scum

If you want to vote a wagon to little no reasoning as this player isn't active or I really have no reasoning at all. Join the Ciara wagon.

[Garmr]

my main argument for Karmic is that some of her arguments and pushes seemed forced and reachy, as if she was looking for things to push people for.

aka RVS?

More like past RVs I swear your not even reading karmics case or just flat out ignoring it.

[Garmr]

Is the Karmic is reaching argument referring to the "Ciara is lurky" statement?
If not, what is it referring to?

That's just the tip of the ice berg ²64 not only did he change his story to produced no town content which is another reach. He accused me of role hunting and trying to tell my scum team

[Garmr]

So we have him changing a story when pressured and reaching

[Garmr]

Oh let's not forgot that my hostile nature makes all my points which I explained well null

[Garmr]

That's just the tip of the ice berg ²64 not only did he change his story to produced no town content which is another reach. He accused me of role hunting and trying to tell my scum team

I've explained why I don't think that his initial assertion of "Ciara was lurking" was unreasonable; would you mind responding to that?

Him refining his position to "Ciara isn't doing any scumhunting" is a fine position to change to in my opinion because 1) it's true (if you disagree, find me one of Ciara's reads), and 2) its not that far off from his initial statement.

He did say that rolefishing was a possible explanation for something you said. Why is that scummy?

because that's reaching as fuck now I know your scum. If your town and think that isn't reaching you should retire period.saying yes is no way near what he said. The change is bad because it was not his original reason and it looked like panicked.

[Garmr]

Also ciara has a town read on karmic and I believe a scum read on Thor

[Garmr]

Hell I'm willing to put my head on the chopping block and say ciara is town because the wagon started on nothing I can see ciaras reasoning when debating Thor.

[Garmr]

Also ciara has a town read on karmic and I believe a scum read on Thor

You're partially correct; she has a town read on Karmic and a town read on Thor for no stated reasons at all. I maintain that this isn't anything close to an acceptable level of scumhunting.

I can see ciaras reasoning when debating Thor.

What are you referring to here?

just the whole Thor V Ciara event

[Garmr]

I don't see her as dodging your attacks I see her as misreading what you said and going along with that then reliazing and apologizing for the mistake I have done this as town before

[Garmr]

Add to the fact she has been busy inrl I gather

[Garmr]

Also there's a difference between seeing ones reasoning Thor and agreeing

[Garmr]

Like her believing karmic as town I disagree with

[Garmr]

Do it Thor

[Garmr]

I don't see her as dodging your attacks I see her as misreading what you said and going along with that then reliazing and apologizing for the mistake I have done this as town before

She misread a couple things - and then offered reasoning off of that stuff, and nothing else really.
It just really struck me as someone both who wasn't really scumhunting (skimming leads to more "misreadings" and I do think scum skim) and the apology also reads to me as "oh crud, I gakked up, abort attack!" which, I think, is strongly supported by her then doing spit all afterwards. Like, she did an attack on me based off two "misreads" and nothing else...smoke = fire methinks.

I'll agree that I am taking the negative view of her actions and you're taking the prosaic view, and I can even understand you taking said prosaic view, even if just to be contrary. Where you lose me though is that you take such a prosaic view of an iso that says basically nothing, based off "misreads" or no presented evidence, say you like the reasoning and then town read it so strongly as to go "head on the block!" which...dear lord man, why? Seriously - why? That is an empty and iffy iso that you could maybe read as non-invested town, but to reaad it as town so strongly as to leap to the defense? That is screwy - it is so screwy to me that I almost want to call her town and lynch you on presumption of WKing scum, so please, with a cherry on top, expand on this read you're offering - because it makes no sense to me.

Also thor I'm not a noob with my experience as scum i think i only ever lost like 1 game out of 5 and that was due to the sk killing me for being to town. In all my games as scum I have never taken risks like this. It's a fucking wagon with absolutely no grounds to vote anyone and I feel like strangling the town on it because all of them can't be scum. My opinions of people who are on the wagon that are town have also dropped so after this game is done.

Nacho also feels the most shadiest I just can't put my finger why I guess I will find out sooner or latter.

[Garmr]

@thor flawed arguments flawed arguments shove that up your *** my arguments are valid and it's you who has the flawed arguments. If ciara flips town your going to be like oh garmr was wking when in fact I'm just not a idiot.

[Garmr]

I will admit to having a little superiority complex when playing mafia on the forums as I find it to reassure myself about my decisions.. Also playing safe for me isn't a scum trait as I will do it as town as well espically if I'm unsure of what to do or I find things in the game to be going the way I see it, just to make that clear for future games.

[Garmr]

The case on Karmic is very weak.

It's only "weak" insomuch as it's a Day 1 case.
The issue I have with the case is the disjointed failure to actually talk particularly clearly about the issues with Karmic - individual votes on him are weak.

I am citing the 'G-boys' as the top offenders in this category. Gimlear is basically accusing him of changing his mind, and Garmr is too mighty and powerful to even deign to justify his vote when questioned. Neither reaction is pro-town.

pff my points on him are still valid others have noted that through it's been controversial. I'm actually starting to think your scum.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

[Garmr]

I'm getting kinda annoyed with saving things over and over to drill a point in.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

...NOTICE THAT I QUOTED STUFF, ASKED IF I WAS WRONG, AND HAVE BEEN REPEATEDLY ASKING YOU TO TAKE UP THE GAUNTLET AND STATE THE CASE OPENLY, SIMPLY, AND IN ONE PLACE, WHAT "MORE" AM I MISSING EXACTLY...

[

AND I FUCKING HAVE, I WANT TO CHOKE YOU TO DEATH RIGHT NOW. 268 Fucking to 268 my main points I even surmise what I'm saying at the end of it.

Backtracking,mudthrowing,reaching,Finding a excuse to jump on the lead wagon there's a plethora of reasons why you are scum.

if you want to know how i came to those conclusion read that post BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MORE YOUR MISSING IS A BRAIN.

[Garmr]

well I got three town reads that stand out to me.

Nachomamma- Well this ones pretty strong at the moment. After emphasizing the grudge I have with him to extreme levels when thor asks what do you think of this. He answers with this

@Nacho - thoughts on Garmr and the WK thought I had.

Intentionally not unvoting Ciara while asking this.

I don't think it's very likely. I read a little bit into Garmr's games as scum to see if he plays like this as scum (he doesn't); I also don't think that the condescension in the "I'm the only not idiot" in the attitude is faked and don't think it would feature so predominantly if we were trying to lynch a townie as a counterwagon to Garmr!scum trying to lynch a townie.

This here shows his researching the game and this post strikes me as town. If nacho was scum he could easily of agreed with thor getting rid of a potential problem(aka me) in the future and I don't think anyone here but silver wolf and dave would of had the the experience with me to disagree. there's mutiple town vibes coming out of this.


My next biggest town read is bellaphant
she has extremely similar opinions as me she strikes a cord as town but through I have a opinion I utterly disagree with but that doesn't matter as My gut is telling this slot is town.

Woody/silver
Welp I feel heaps better about woody he seeme to be really in it after reading back he gave me a newbie eager town sort of vibe. Silver hasn't really done enough to change my opinion on the slot through my gut still says town through.

[Garmr]

I left ciara off my town reads list for a reason because I believe no matter what I do today she's going to be lynched so I am now starting to gather my thought about tomorrow and the people on the list I have presented are pretty much town in my eyes no matter ciaras flip.

[Garmr]

Eventi = Not much to go on, kind of seems like unlikely scum... Also feels like a smart player. Could be a great town asset with more contribution. Bad D1 lynch.

Why does eventi seem like unlikely scum to you?

When I was doing that write-up for everyone, I went back through the game and did some quick mental PBPA's on people who I didn't have strong opinions on. My gutread on Eventi had gone back and forth all game, and in reading through his posts, I didn't really find anything that stood out as sketchy.

Can you actually list a reason why eventi is town. Also I feel eventi has contributed next to nothing and has been pretty worthless so far can you list some example of why you think he could a asset to town.

[Garmr]

-Eventi's 300 looks convenient in moving to scumread Ciara: What made you change your mind? Ciara hasn't posted anything and you go from townreading to scumreading her. If Ciara flips town, this might be scum on the wagon.

Why no issue with how Pistach changed his vote?

-Ciara's 420 should have had a claim in it. We're not getting a replacement as the mod posted a VC. 17 hours until deadline. I think we should hammer.

That is a good point, Mod has expressly accepted a v/la till after day deadline from Ciara even though he didn't state so.
I am underwhelmed on multiple fronts.

Pistachion hasn't changed his read, he just voted because of the deadline. Eventi changed his read without stating any reasons and without Ciara posting a single word.
I fail to see your point on the second quote.

If thor flips scum he has a really bad habit of defending his scum team to a certain extent just wanted to get this out in case I die tonight.

[Garmr]

Site was down last night, so I couldn't catch up. Let's see if I can pick this up. I'm going to attempt not making this a big wall post filled with quotes.

-Bella, you mention in #201 you're not seeing Ciara as a scum read. Has this changed at this point?
-Dave's #204 is pretty good.
-Garmr: in 216 you stated you went from townreading to more of a nullread on Nacho. How are you reading him now?
-Eventi: In 219, you only comment on someone attacking your new playstyle, yet you don't mention anything else. Why are you defensive about your style being different, if it's supposed to be better? And why don't you continue playing instead of worrying about how you look?
-KarmicGuide: What's your read on Eventi?
-KarmicGuide: my read on pistachion: I have a slight scumread on him, but I think that's mostly because I disagree with most of what he says. No strong feelings. What about you?
-Gimlear, how are you reading Thor?
-Eventi's 300 looks convenient in moving to scumread Ciara: What made you change your mind? Ciara hasn't posted anything and you go from townreading to scumreading her. If Ciara flips town, this might be scum on the wagon.
-Eventi's 348: Reads haven't changed, votes Ciara. His read did change in 300, without explaining why. I still want that explanation.
-The whole battle of wagons between Thor+Nacho vs Garmr looks like Town trying to get their way.
-gummy's 362: Ciara's wagon got to L-1 very fast? I don't consider 15 pages fast at all... Why are you making this point?
-note to self: not townreading Bella on page 16 yet. Starting to get worried.
-Karmic: why do you think Eventi is a smart player?
-Ciara's 420 should have had a claim in it. We're not getting a replacement as the mod posted a VC. 17 hours until deadline. I think we should hammer.

Actually i went from a scum read to a null read to a town read. I'm currently town reading him.

[Garmr]

^ The last bit In Eventi's post seems like concern about being connected to karmic. It feels like his trying to step in and find a way to intervene. If eventi I think he would be more concerned about why karmic has such a strange read on him rather than trying to fizzle out any connection between him and karmic.

[Garmr]

If eventi was town.*

[Garmr]

@Nacho - meta me Garmr's bus/defend habits also - that head on the block thing was wonky and he failed to justify it when directly asked. What's your thought there?

I am pretty bus happy anyone can tell you that or you can look yourself

[Garmr]

VOTE: Vote: Bellaphant

I am going to do a little looking around elsewhere, but my reread yesterday put the two likeliest scum at Bellaphant and eventi.

I also think that if a: town cop/tracker/jailkeeper/roleblocker exists then they should claim immediately; my intuition tells me the reason a mafia roleblocker is in the game an overwhelmingly majority of the time is to break up investigation/protection circles bringing investigative out so they can be protected is probably the optimal move here.

My scum reads are Dave and event

Dave pretty much ignored ciaria all day and added the last second vote and his response to Thor seems really defensive when it didn't mean to be.

[Garmr]

@thor
You were right I was wrong. If you want my reasons why I town read ciara its because I thought I was right about karma and you were scum trying to push the wagon away from karma and I would of done anything to foil you hell if ciara flipped town I was going to fake cop a scum read on you.

[Garmr]

The Reds - Roleblocker + Godfather against Tracker + Cop, only protective was one-shot bulletproof
Paint the town Red Tracker + Vig + Doctor against Roleblocker
A Game of Pokes - Cop/Doctor against Roleblocker

It turns out that Mafia Roleblockers are not as common in games as I thought they were, and that hitting the roleblocker Day 1 is not as awesome as I thought it would be. I still think that investigative outing at this point has a pretty big chance of breaking the game, so, if you see this and trust me and feel like outing, out away.

If not, don't.

I was scum in paint and that was a body guard we shot not a dr

[Garmr]

Never mind that was space mafia lol

[Garmr]

Paint was when I fake copped wanderer

[Garmr]

Now I'm going to defend scum buddies in future games so it doesn't become a tell this is bothersome

[Garmr]

Haha yes I knew it Bella is town.

[Garmr]

@tho rwas waiting to get home to answer why i expect eventi show you this

Other than his vote on the ciara wagon which has been explained by others which I agree with. There's this post

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

...NOTICE THAT I QUOTED STUFF, ASKED IF I WAS WRONG, AND HAVE BEEN REPEATEDLY ASKING YOU TO TAKE UP THE GAUNTLET AND STATE THE CASE OPENLY, SIMPLY, AND IN ONE PLACE, WHAT "MORE" AM I MISSING EXACTLY...

[

AND I FUCKING HAVE, I WANT TO CHOKE YOU TO DEATH RIGHT NOW. 268 Fucking to 268 my main points I even surmise what I'm saying at the end of it.

Backtracking,mudthrowing,reaching,Finding a excuse to jump on the lead wagon there's a plethora of reasons why you are scum.

if you want to know how i came to those conclusion read that post BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MORE YOUR MISSING IS A BRAIN.

Now I think you need a hug. Go look up impotent

To me it looks like scum having A laugh at two townie's arguing.

Why are you so concerned with Karmic's opinion of me? Why Karmic specifically?

This is a extremely weird reaction. I don't think a townie would have this a townie may get paranoid at all the compliments that karmic was giving while having reads that jumped up and down.


It's quite possible karmic is scum still as well but that's less likely after last lynch and his place on the wagon (being the second vote).

[Garmr]

I have no doubt that's why you think I'm scum... "Look at how angry I am everybody - I'm from the BAN THREAD" I WANT TO CHOKE YOU TO DEATH

You're a joke and I laughed at you

what ever you say scum but now it's time for you to get lynched. btw I'm not even the angriest person on this site you haven't meet kuribo yet or you haven't pissed off mollie. Plus I kinda played that up so I could get my way guess it didn't work like it does for kuribo.

And I don't see anything wrong with asking why Karmic? I do wonder why he can't answer though

You showed no concern about what karmic was and only the fact you were brought up. When karmic was kissing your ass so that his nose turned brown a townies first reaction should be why is he doing that. Not why are you asking that question to karmic so you can continue to get brown nosed. Now your looking for a way out of this line of questioning because you don't have a answer you god damn fucked up :p

[Garmr]

I have no doubt that's why you think I'm scum... "Look at how angry I am everybody - I'm from the BAN THREAD" I WANT TO CHOKE YOU TO DEATH

You're a joke and I laughed at you

what ever you say scum but now it's time for you to get lynched. btw I'm not even the angriest person on this site you haven't meet kuribo yet or you haven't pissed off mollie. Plus I kinda played that up so I could get my way guess it didn't work like it does for kuribo.

So you think I'm scum because I hurt your feelings?

I can't imagine that clown shit working for anyone, or on anyone for that matter.

And I don't see anything wrong with asking why Karmic? I do wonder why he can't answer though

You showed no concern about what karmic was and only the fact you were brought up. When karmic was kissing your ass so that his nose turned brown a townies first reaction should be why is he doing that. Not why are you asking that question to karmic so you can continue to get brown nosed. Now your looking for a way out of this line of questioning because you don't have a answer you god damn fucked up :p

Nope i think your scum for other reasons as well don't try to portray that as the only reason. Also scum getting between fights between two townies is a scum tell that has been established by others not just me lol so don't try to portray it as something else.

Sorry, fat fingered the submit button...

You're going to have to show me Karmic kissing my ass, it must have escaped my notice.

Eventi = Not much to go on, kind of seems like unlikely scum...

Also feels like a smart player. Could be a great town asset with more contribution.

Bad D1 lynch.

He goes back on it latter saying his read of you is jumping up and down. That's why we were trying to get a response out of him by applying pressure but you jumped in and broke the flow. Tbh If you were reading the whole conversation like a good townie should (which there wasn't much of i would understand if it had been going on for pages but a couple of posts lol) Tbh at the time you should of been a null read at best as you didn't provide much info at the time.

[Garmr]

Mollie's more of an incessant whine than angry.

if you read them and there IS an sk then they only made 1 nk. aj was blown up by the town bomb variant.

it is a fantastic logical leap to make cos if there is a 1 shot vig no1 in their right mind is going to claim it. it is however illogical to assume that just cos we have a fbi agent we have a sk. this leap makes you either a VI of garmr levels or flat inexperienced despite your join date cos mods will put in superfluous roles to keep the game from being broken all the time. I am not saying, "OMG THERE IS NO CHANCE FOR A SK EVER ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!" what I am saying is that town shld not assume there is and lynch players based off that assumption. if you can't grasp this very basic concept then you are a fucking moron.

after I flip town go back and look at how you basically supported a 23 yr old misogynist who watches red socket porn or the fuck it is you call it (sickest shit I have ever heard of and shows extreme violence against women) and you are only giving him masturbatory material for the next year. I don't give a shit about being lynched the game stopped being fun for me ages ago its just that it pisses me off how people will help him serve his personal petty vendetta. I don't even take it personally i am pretty sure all women who do not return his affections are bitches in his eyes. first he said I was scum but with the IaI flip that obviously couldn't work, then I had to be sk, then it was he didn't even care WHAT I was he just wanted me lynched and you...are sheeping him. he has been solidly going after me since d2 and when he wasn't going after me he was going after titus.

and you are sheeping him.

You obviously haven't pissed off mollie then. She said this after I keeped saying she was the sk all the time. I wasn't being mean or calling her names or even shouting at her I just generally believed she was sk and pushed it 24/7. Also i accused her of ate.

[Garmr]

No, I can't rule out a late bus, I just think in general it's less likely than early. Mostly because it can be so obvious. TBH I did not expect to see others also offer hammer intent, and don't think I have seen that before. I'm used to calling it and using it, not having someone jump in front of me like that.

This feels like a lot of statement of "null" - is that right?

I'm going to guess there's a protective role out there, so I am going to claim: I'm town cop.

I investigated Bella, who is town.

The more exciting aspect to me here is a potential Radja clear, frankly.
Okay, we'll leave Bella alive for the nonce.

Thor665

, KarmicGuide,

Radja

, pistachi0n,

Nachom

amma8,

eve

nti,

SilverWolf

And

Bella

Da

ve
as the rest of the hammer intent squad.

Still kind of favoring Pistach methinks.

what ever you say scum but now it's time for you to get lynched. btw I'm not even the angriest person on this site you haven't meet kuribo yet or you haven't pissed off mollie. Plus I kinda played that up so I could get my way guess it didn't work like it does for kuribo.

Mollie's more of an incessant whine than angry.
Kuribo also explains stuff even while being angry - it's why your method ground to a halt and his generally doesn't. It's not level of anger, it's level of explanation paired with anger.

Don't understand why you would clear dave, Also eventi. they are both viable scum silver wolf seems town to me through.

[Garmr]

He goes back on it latter saying his read of you is jumping up and down.

That's why we were trying to get a response out of him by applying pressure but you jumped in and broke the flow.

Tbh If you were reading the whole conversation like a good townie should (which there wasn't much of i would understand if it had been going on for pages but a couple of posts lol) Tbh at the time you should of been a null read at best as you didn't provide much info at the time.

Are you imagining this or something? Did you think you and Radja were interrogating Karmic?

You reliaze I first brought it up and now your trying to dismiss what karmic said by changing the subject pathetic

[Garmr]

I'm finding both cases to be relatively ok for D1 and what is bothering me the most is the vehemence against the wagons on both sides.

Besides Karmic (who, naturally will dislike the wagon on him) who would you describe as vehement against the Karmic wagon? It seems it would have to be, and only consisting of, Nacho - who is defending the Karmic wagon, but isn't exactly barn nurning in the same way that Garmr or Glim are dogging on the Ciara wagon.

Or am I missing something from the inside looking out?

Granted, vehement is probably too strong a term. There is opposition, some of which is direct in the form of questioning the wagon(s) and some in the form of pushing the other wagon.

this ciara wagon raced awfully fast to L-1 and is giving me weird vibes.

Also that was a respond to prod, so I believe Ciara should have been prodded as well. No hammers please before she returns.

What do you consider fast? It's not like it popped up out of nowhere and got to L-1 the same day. Also while I agree that we want a reply to the L-1 situation, we can't just wait forever. I think we have a decent chance of catching scum with this wagon. The main reason we would move off it would be if there were a credible PR claim. This late in the day, getting cold feet on the absent player and a mad dash to another is a really bad idea. In fact, I'm comfortable with stating hammer intent at this point.

I don't like wagons for the sake of wagons. As I mentioned before, Karmic has a couple people making decent arguments against him. The arguments against Ciara are practically non-existent.

What would you say is the most convincing argument against Karmic?

I'm finding both cases to be relatively ok for D1 and what is bothering me the most is the vehemence against the wagons on both sides.

@thor that wasn't my only point. So don't act like it was. Dave pretty much ignored the ciara wagon all day till post 354.

He questions the karma wagon despite having a vote on it earlier and saying that both wagons are OK. Yet doesn't do the same for ciara.

He never gives a reason why he prefers one over the and he spends most the day voting on people who probably won't get lynched.

372 is the closetist to a reasoning and even then its only facts irrelevant to reading ones alignment.

First multiquote on a phone

[Garmr]

That's right event I just scarecrow the whole convo

[Garmr]

So event I who are your scum reads

[Garmr]

@thor that wasn't my only point. So don't act like it was. Dave pretty much ignored the ciara wagon all day till post 354.

He questions the karma wagon despite having a vote on it earlier and saying that both wagons are OK. Yet doesn't do the same for ciara.

He never gives a reason why he prefers one over the and he spends most the day voting on people who probably won't get lynched.

372 is the closetist to a reasoning and even then its only facts irrelevant to reading ones alignment.

First multiquote on a phone

I can agree that ignoring a wagon could be scummy. But, frankly, so can opposing it - especially when it is a PR.

I am not sure why evidence of him opposing the Karmic wagon but not opposing the Ciara one makes him more likely scum after a Ciara scum flip - can you expand on that thought?

He might be scummy for trying to avoid the wagons, but I thought you also docked him for supporting and questioning the Karmic one. Isn't that a bit of an either/or situation?

You also cited my case on Ciara as lacking real evidence to the point you were planning to fake claim to get me lynched. Are you sure this time that his case is legibly bad, unlike mine wherein it was simply a case you disagreed with as opposed to a scummy case? They are different things.

I was thinking more along the line of he may of had knowledge of the wagons and that's why he was questioning one and not the other.

Also Thor, he didn't add anything to the convo so there can't be anything that could be wrong not like me you and ciara.

Bringing up how I was wrong with ciara doesn't mean all my reads ate wrong Thor I was right about Bella being town. You also know I can be right sometimes remember when I lynched aero and Titus when I was a hider and you were scum.

[Garmr]

eventi doesn't have much to say except an L-1 vote on Ciara on 348. He gave an opinion of WW as lynchbait. Concerned about what others thing of Karmic's opinion of him here 456. That seems off to me. Why worry about things like that? Town generally doesn't care how they look. 507 Likes case on pista but no real stance on it otherwise.

@Eventi-how are you reading Pista right now?

Scum lean, but I haven't had time to really analyze. Also, I don't really care about Karmic's opinion of me, or rather what others think about Karmic's opinion of me, I just wanted to know why Radja only wanted to know what Karma thought - that seemed strange to me, and so I asked and I would have left it at that if it wasn't for garnr pressing it.

You don't really expect that explanation to hold up do you. You even trying to pass the buck by your inability to answer it onto me there. Even through it's in the same vain as I been pushing you on it. I think your smart enough to see why people see you as scummy but your feigning being stupid.


Seriously there's so many people scum reading you and not a lot of votes.

VOTE: Eventi in case i already haven't

[Garmr]

I'm going to vote pista over silver I trust silver wolf. A rolecop and a normal cop suggest a god father through.

[Garmr]

VOTE: silverwolf

If she had a town power role found then i don't think she would of said it out loud. other than she found the protective role.

[Garmr]

I have been so wrong this game

[Garmr]

I have been so wrong this game

Are you covering for something?

No not at all. I was wrong about ciara wrong about silver and wrong about dave.

[Garmr]

Because dave is a jailkeeper I don't think silver wolf would out a scum buddy as a jailkeeper. If she were to fake claim dave it would probably be a doctor as jailkeeper wouldn't make sense since we all presumed it was a DR and if she did find a jail keeper all that jail keeper would have to have to do is jail keep dave tonight and town have pretty much won the game.

there are no benefits in a jail keeper fake claim on a scum buddy if you know who jail keeper is. Pistachi0n it's common sense if you actually think about it.

[Garmr]

we can essentially break this set up.

[Garmr]

to many town power roles someone is lying.

[Garmr]

Nacho 's plan is horrible, why would I need to be double confirmed?? Surely the jk can be used more usefully, and we protect the doc?

I'm starting to have doubts on nacho because I know he isn't this dumb

[Garmr]

I rekon the set up is

pist-rolecop
rad-cop
dave-jailkeeper

nacho-liar

A rolecop,cop,jailkeeper,doctor is just to fucking power of a set up even with a godfather. But a jailkeeper,cop,rolecop makes much more sense.

[Garmr]

You were the only person jailed - so, I already accounted for that, but I presume you don't think that's what happened.

Dave hasn't said if he jailed Bella or not

[Garmr]

But that doesn't make sense if a jail keeper jails someone that person can't be targeted which means raj and peace conflicts

[Garmr]

God i hope karmic is scum then I can save myself some face. That way atleast say I was also right about when arguing with thor.

But why not jailkeep karmic again and have both the role cop and the normal cop target him. That way we can confirm if it's scum playing shenanigans or karmic is scum. If there is a kill tonight it will prove karmic innocent, if there is nothing and the cops say his clean then scum is playing shenanigans, if cops come back with scum I think we won. :p

[Garmr]

you can't jailkeep and cop the same person, right?

you already have with bella.

[Garmr]

@Garmr: At that point why not just lynch Karmic and use those investigations for something else?

This way we can delay when the end game is and gain more investigations and that way we can have more confirmed town.

[Garmr]

I would like to be confirmed please

[Garmr]

I think I'm pretty obvious town and would perfer to be confirmed town by a role/normal cop combo. I don't want to be mislynched because nacho

[Garmr]

That's pretty bad reasoning pista if nacho is really a doctor they could easily shot him yesterday and have free range over who to kill tonight. The only way I don't see them shooting nacho (if he is legit) is the the fact that David jailed them.

[Garmr]

thors idea is similar to my idea and I like it.

[Garmr]

if we do a lynch the only one who should be lynched is karmic. But i think no lynches till everyone is confirmed

[Garmr]

Silvers probably crying from the grave at the amount of people calling her a boy lol .

[Garmr]

I think his scum and believe a no lynch is the best way

[Garmr]

I want evert one confirmed in case i am wrong logically its the best move

[Garmr]

Which is why I want everyone confirmed

[Garmr]

there's no reason to lynch karmic today then when we can confirm all the vanilla townies at least.

[Garmr]

I am ok with either plan really. I admit I just like the idea of lynching Karmic.

Nothing is stopping us from lynching Karmic tonight then no lynching until we find the last scum if Karmic flips VT. Or even no lynching today and lynching Karmic (or whoever) tomorrow if need be.

Also, can people vote for a no lynch or would we just have to wait out the timer?

difference with that is we get a extra confirmed town for the no lynch.

[Garmr]

Roleblocker, Rolecop, Godfather v. Cop, Rolecop, Jailkeeper, Doc, 6 VTs.

Still looks a touch townsided to my mind, though I admit that I think Doc is an often overestimated role.
That said, a rolecop/block combo is pretty potent for the scum, though the GF is on the weak side with 2 town roles able to 'detect' him, albeit one only in late game (or in a steamrolled game, like this one).

I think I'm leaning towards Karmic being the last scum (Garmr will do a backflip, I presume) or one of the PRs lying to us - but we have them on a pretty rough lockdown at the moment.
Yeah, I'm thinking my plan works as stated.

This is pretty short sighted thor.


If a power role is lying at this point I would assume nacho

VOTE: Vote: Bellaphant

I am going to do a little looking around elsewhere, but my reread yesterday put the two likeliest scum at Bellaphant and eventi.

I also think that if a: town cop/tracker/jailkeeper/roleblocker exists then they should claim immediately; my intuition tells me the reason a mafia roleblocker is in the game an overwhelmingly majority of the time is to break up investigation/protection circles bringing investigative out so they can be protected is probably the optimal move here.

I find it interesting how nacho mentions town/cop/tracker/roleblocker and not doctor Even through he does claim to be a doctor. I would think a town doctor would mention that in his search because he would want to avoid being pinned as the the town doctor. To further push the point he knew bella was targeted he votes bella in this post as well. He mention a town jailkeeper/roleblocker but why would he mention that if he is town doctor. Sure the town cop/tracker I could understand but a jailkeeper/roleblocker why would he want to know why they were in the game the answer is simple.

Scum targeted bella to die and not thor. Thor was pretty obvious town at that point in the game so if town had watchers/trackers they would probably go watch him and if town had a doctor they would most likely protect thor. Thus the pretty much out of the box bella vote would make sense for someone trying to find who the jailkeeper by peoples reactions because lets admit it who would doc bella over thor. I nearly forgot the fact he didn't say watcher because he was probably only concerned about the people on him to see if his fake claim would stand up.

Also add in the fact that nacho claimed doctor last out of all the roles because it was the safest time to fake claim it. Not only will this stop him being a jailkeeper target but it would make most town hesitant to lynch him as well. The claim he protected thor night 1 wouldn't be a bad idea as town but that's only assuming scum want to take a risk of being caught by a power role.


The no kill can be explained by nacho being scum as well. Since the talk of godfathers and stuff was about he was probally gambling on us lynching the jailed today as he that the point he was pushing all day by pushing the fact we should lynch who we jail this would get him off a lynch today. Him starting to talk about strong arms ect is probably him trying to plant the seeds for a davesaz kill tonight.

Nacho is the dodgiest of the power roles.

Still karmic is just as likely scum but we can confirm that tonight.

[Garmr]

I mean, basically your idea appears to be 'scum shot Bella because Thor waas too obv. town and would draw protection'.
Which, okay, sure, maybe I was too obv. town and would draw protection - I can buy into that because I'm full of myself.

But why pick Bella as the kill?
I mean, there were an odd nine other town slots to choose to kill.
Would Bella have been near the top of your list?

Well if nacho is scum

-Bella was suspicious of nacho day 1. Through this is interchangeable with karmic as well.
-when she gave town reads they were right (well I'm assuming your like 99 percent confirmed town)
-It was a safe kill if you assume that jailor wasn't in the game.
-she was kinda reserved day 1 so that could of looked like a power role to scum who knew she was town.
-Because bellas avi is a penguin and the remaining mafia member is a hungry seal in real life.

There's plenty of reasons.

[Garmr]

Bella was not suspicious of Nacho as I recall - if that happened I kind of feel it had to be for a short period and near day start, so that seems unlikely reasoning.
Do you ever kill players off their town reads being right Day 1? I don't - I suspect Nacho wouldn't.
I agree, she was unlikely to draw protection.
Maybe so - of course they had a rolecop to fish for that stuff as well - why not shoot Dave and cop Bella, for instance?

I can somewhat see your fear and theory - it doesn't feel supported enough to worry about at this stage. How about we agree to lynch him if Dave dies before Nacho? I would generically support that idea at this stage - is that good enough for you?

Deal

[Garmr]

Bella was not suspicious of Nacho as I recall - if that happened I kind of feel it had to be for a short period and near day start, so that seems unlikely reasoning.
Do you ever kill players off their town reads being right Day 1? I don't - I suspect Nacho wouldn't.
I agree, she was unlikely to draw protection.
Maybe so - of course they had a rolecop to fish for that stuff as well - why not shoot Dave and cop Bella, for instance?

I can somewhat see your fear and theory - it doesn't feel supported enough to worry about at this stage. How about we agree to lynch him if Dave dies before Nacho? I would generically support that idea at this stage - is that good enough for you?

Only after shooting bella would they figure out there was a jailkeeper or roleblocker. So shooting bella because there was a potential role is viable.

[Garmr]

if scum is playing a game then it forces them to play their hand and stops us mislynching today, it confirms karmic as town if a kill goes through or until karmic is confirmed as scum, If they don/t kill and karmic is town then we get free investigations.

[Garmr]

VOTE: no lynch

[Garmr]

If we lynch Karmic, we narrow the pool that we have to investigate. Scum probably wants a no lynch so they can avoid scrutiny (if scum is not Karmic)

Are you dumb?

if a kill happens now karmic becomes confirmed town. If he is scum then there is no danger involved in locking him up for ever. It's a total win for town for a no lynch but if we lynch him and his town we just basically lost one town for nothing.

[Garmr]

Sorry that was mean but seriously we were just talking about all the benefits and cons in a lynch and no lynch and everyone admitted that a no lynch was the best option with way better results and no down sides other than the long weight if karmic is scum but the people who want to lynch didn't want to drag this out if he is.

[Garmr]

don't hammer just no lynch -_-

[Garmr]

everyone important agreed that it was a win

[Garmr]

i swear you aren't reading the reason we don't want to do a lynch is becuase it's not a optimal play the optimal play is what me and thor suggested if you actually think about it. If any of the power roles are lying it forces them in a bad stance but if karmic is scum then we lose nothing from constantly jail keeping him until scum make a kill. We have nothing to lose and everything to to gain.

It basic logic and it does my head people can't see this simple stuff I noticed that on this site recently people lack the thought process to think things through for optimal play it annoys me.

[Garmr]

hold me close thor I am dying on the inside

[Garmr]

if your town vote no lynch if your scum vote lynch.

[Garmr]

Again, a no lynch means no information, a lynch means we're narrowing down the pool even if Karmic is town.

-boinks your head with a squeeky rubber hammer-
We just discussed sigh i swear your not even paying attention to this game.

A no flip is safer because if scum is someone else and they kill tonight karmic gets confirmed town karmic is town. If he is scum it doesn't matter since he can do nothing as everyone else in the game is confirmed.


I swear the newer players don't use there brains in situations like this.

[Garmr]

Again, a no lynch means no information, a lynch means we're narrowing down the pool even if Karmic is town.

-boinks your head with a squeeky rubber hammer-
We just discussed sigh i swear your not even paying attention to this game.

A no flip is safer because if scum is someone else and they kill tonight karmic gets confirmed town karmic is town. If he is scum it doesn't matter since he can do nothing as everyone else in the game is confirmed.


I swear the newer players don't use there brains in situations like this.

What prevents the scum from no killing just to screw with us? I recently finished a game where we were in a similar situation and the one remaining scum no killed repeatedly.

if they do that it's perfect lol since we will confirm a bunch of players with a cop and a role cop and if either of you are scum and lie about who is scum then you will be obvious and get lynched. Hell at the end of it we can even confirm karmic as town or scum with the rolecop/cop combo.

In this situation scum can't win with out killing because every vt will get confirmed and if one of the power roles is scum they can't act of line.

If someone does die we get karmic confirmed as town.

[Garmr]

This is what happens when idiots put someone at l-1

[Garmr]

And when idiots don't read before phoneposting. I'm fine with the plan. If there is no kill tonight, what would be a good course of action? I'm all for lynching me if we come to that and will gladly self-vote myself early tomorrow (so I can't self-hammer). If you all would rather cop/rolecop me though (I suggest putting that on maybe Thor or nacho, or any stronger player), I am willing to proxy my vote out as town consensus. Really sorry about the accidental hammer...

Even with a phone post we just came off why a no lynch is better you tool

[Garmr]

@Garmr - you catch more flies with honey. No need to rage at him, he is either scum who knew what he was doing, or he's town and should hopefully learn not to play that sloppy in the future. Yelling at him shouldn't change anything.

Like the plan, that isn't changing;

NEW Night Plan with Karmic Lynch

Pistach targets Eventi.
Radja investigates Gimlear/Garmr.
Dave jails Gummy
Nacho docs Dave.

Even with a lynch it's not like town is in a terrible position, we're just in a less strong position...or we've won, I could still easily see Karmic as scum.

So your telling me to pour honey on my chest

[Garmr]

Only if it gets you hot.

Depends if you put on that little dress

[Garmr]

Nacho is probably the remaining scum new plan jail nacho

[Garmr]

Don't you see Thor nacho is the last scum

[Garmr]

Well I will be focused on lynching nacho

[Garmr]

I'm not necessarily agreeing to the plan, I just want to know from dave himself who he is jailing so I don't investigate them.

Even if you do you still will get a result

[Garmr]

Nacho must be lynched

[Garmr]

My plan was no lynch but s bunch of village idiots and one scum ruined that

[Garmr]

Event I is scum?

[Garmr]

Yeeessss thor I was right about there being a god father. (irst one to bring that up) and about karmic being scum ohhhhh yeh. Still a no lynch was best.

[Garmr]

@Garmr - theirs something really impotent I wanted two say before, but I've been conscience of my ability too get myself killed for been a wise as:

if you want to know how i came to those conclusion read that post BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MORE

YOUR

MISSING IS A BRAIN.

God four u

[Garmr]

Yeeessss thor I was right about there being a god father. (irst one to bring that up) and about karmic being scum ohhhhh yeh. Still a no lynch was best.

My recollection is Nacho for the GF talk, but I wouldn't swear to that.
You were assuredly right about Karmic, which is awesome, i was more null on him that day myself - you just shouldn't have been vowing self-lynch in defense of one of the other scum at the same time

This is, I think, my first non-newbie perfect town.
Feels really nice.

I mentioned it in post 561 and nacho mentioned it in this game in 565. But nacho mentioned god father earlier for another game with a roleblocker which made me think there may be one in this game so i guess in a way you could say he did.


Yeh I tend to get really passionate when I feel one of my scum reads is right I tend to discard the counter wagons as town so I probably won't do that in the future.

But your right this was a perfect game hell yeh.

Must give props to pista through with the role cop on silver wolf.

[Garmr]

It's still townsided Thor and like I said I would of felt that way if I was town in this game as well.

Yes, town played fantastically well and scum caught exactly zero breaks, but it is what it is.

However, Congrats Town on the win!!

It isn't impossible to win through if town are screw ups. I won as scum with 6 confirmed town near the end of the game in "You could be Anyone Mafia III"


But if town with a town sided set up like this I would say your chances are very little .

[Garmr]

Tbh town did a good job as looking town the only exception would be eventi. Nacho had some role speculation that might make him seem scummy and the fact he guessed who Dave jailed with accuracy (I thought he may of been a watcher or something)

[Garmr]

I'm surprised through that people thought karmic was town all my points on karmic were valid. I also feel like I shouldn't of dropped my scum read on woody but other players managed to convince me he was town so that teaches me to trust my gut more often.

I mean he was accusing people of lurking after one day people. It looks like a bad way to bus in hindsight.

When he accused me of role hunting by warping what I said.

when he was buddying eventi and eventi feel for it hook line and sinker. Got to say that was pretty funny in hindsight.

Saying that I didn't provide reasoning for my cases when I did and trying to use character assassination as a reason to discredit my stuff The list goes on.

[Garmr]

Yore still mad I called you a joke, Gamer? What are you 12?

Not mad just thought it was funny what is wrong with you?

[Garmr]

Also, was I buddying Eventi? I like Eventi. Eventi appears to be a Devo fan, and Devo rocks.

Eventi = Not much to go on, kind of seems like unlikely scum... Also feels like a smart player. Could be a great town asset with more contribution. Bad D1 lynch.

This is what I consider buddying a empty post calling him smart and a great assist but with no reasoning why he is. Also considering at that point he didn't post anything of substance. When you got questioned hard for it by multiple people eventi pretty much got in the way of you interrogation which is made this line of reasoning fizzle out because he couldn't think before he posted. So to some extent it worked.

[Garmr]

@eventi who's acting like a 12 year old now.

@karmic but the thing was the town didn't see it that way this happens when you are scum you see things a little different. Also you never did give a reason back then.

[Garmr]

I don't know how I knew Bella was town just was gut

[Garmr]

In post 16, SilverWolf wrote:
OK, thanks zakk.

Also, Hi Karmic!!

I'll be busy most of the day today but will be around later in the day and also tomorrow after work to chat.

The reason I brought up doing both the rolecop and the kill is because I think I'm less likely to be targeted by a PR at this point in the game than you are.

I would like to read a few more things in the game and discuss it with you first before I take any actions.

Yeah, I fully approve of you doing the kill and the rolecop.

I

n post 18, SilverWolf wrote:
OK Karmic, in any game where I've had any success as scum, I've actively talked with my scum partners. I think that's important. We should talk. We only have so much time before deadline and I'm going to be working all day tomorrow as well.

I have read through the game and some individual ISO's and I'd like to break up the obtown bloc of Thor, Nacho, Garmr. Not only are they obvious town but clearly very skilled at the game as well. Thor practically confirmed himself as town with the Ciara push. As a side note, I'm pretty irritated that Ciara played the way she did and ended up getting up to L-1 and basically disappeared from the game entirely and refused to replace out. I think if she would of stuck around and defended herself or a replacement would of come in and been able to do so, the lynch could of been avoided. It was a tough situation for me replacing in to find you both wagoned. I do appreciate WW towning up this slot and when I read you, I would be townreading you if I was playing this game as town. That's pretty much what I do as scum. I treat my partners like I would any other player. If you do something scummy, I'll call you on it. If you look townie, I'll say so. I'll question you like anyone else. I'd expect you to do the same with me. Otherwise, you get those pesky associative tells if one of us flips.

Anyway, The RC/kill should be within these 3. I didn't see any obvious PR signs from anyone so instead I'm going to just go by play. There is a chance one of these three is protected but my take on that is, it's still worth it to try. I've gone back and forth between Thor or Nacho for the kill. I actually really want to play with these two and Garmr as well but I can't make decisions based on that. Thor and Garmr kind of butt heads so that might create some noise/distraction. Nacho will never be lynched. A Garmr kill might make you look bad and I like how he has my slot as one of his top 3. Garmr comes off as really, really confident. Like he knows he will not be lynched no matter what. My thought is either Nacho kill and Garmr RC or Nacho RC and Thor kill. This is where I was hoping to get your input because you've been playing this game since the beginning and might of seen something I did not.

I don't think Garmr is that obvs town, I feel like we can break him.

Also, sorry for my inactivity here. I'm absolutely on board with talking, I just haven't had a good time to reply to this yet.

I'm glad you're here, but man, Woody replacing out really screwed with my head. My plan was to bus him really hard, and hope that Nacho felt Woody was town. I wanted to really dissuade anyone from suspecting a Woody/Karmic scumteam.

Now, I'm not really sure if I got anywhere from that... you're sort of still Woody, but you also sort of aren't.

You've got a lot of good thought here, and I agree with it in general. Yeah, I need to learn to never type up those broad everyone-included townread lists. They never get me anywhere. I think I can back out of it by saying that I thought they were bad Day 1 lynches, not necessarily bad lynches. Which is exactly how I feel.

Yeah, IDK what Bella's deal is. Proddodge with a little extra, seems like. Same with Eventi and Dave. There are a lot of anemic players in this game, and I don't know how to handle anemic players.

I was a suggested night kill I didn't know how praised I was lol. Also newer scum always think they can lynch me and it tends to backfire on them so nah. If i was a cop I would of probably investigated eventi or dave and left you alone to push a lynch on you. Also lapping silverwolfs praise . You just said eventi could be a good assist to town ect in thread yet you call him anemic in the scum thread busted

[Garmr]

Also did my scum read on dave actually save him from being shot.

[Garmr]

Lol even after the game you're looking for scumreads? Man, I wasn't going to say anything, but this is like the tenth time, at least, that you've patted yourself on the back in this thread. It's getting old, man. Look around, there are other experienced players here, and none of them are doing the same.

Re:Eventi. He was anemic in post-count (especially at the time I said that), but decent in post quality, and a potentially strong adversary.

If I look at what scum did and why I can get better reads for future games so hunting for reasons why scum did what after the game can help improve your game. But guess what bud I had to go through the whole game thinking I was wrong about mostly everything and being put down by other players since I wasn't correct on some of my other reads and have some cunt who shall not be named during the game be a dick towards me So now at the end of the game when I find out I wasn't entirely wrong ect. So what if I want to make myself better about this game since I felt useless as fuck day 2 and beyond it doesn't hurt you.

[Garmr]

you were a great mod.

@silverwolf
If the set up was different I could see scum having a pretty good chance at winning.