Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[Persivul]

what do you think about my, and others', reasoning for scum reading maxwell?

You promised a case on him Sunday and never made it. Mind reading is above my pay grade. At this point I'll wait for Troy to post before saying more on the slot.

[Ika Musume]

I don't like the way duppin discredits scum reads on himself by just repeating that he knows he's town. That doesn't seem to bother you. Go figure. To each his own I suppose.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

You promised a case on him Sunday and never made it. Mind reading is above my pay grade. At this point I'll wait for Troy to post before saying more on the slot.

i'm aware of that, but it's not like i haven't laid out *any* reasoning at all in the game thread.

if you're going to ask me for further elaboration on either of these reads, i'll have to get a rain check on giving you a proper answer until i have more time (might be as early as tomorrow). the only reason i haven't been here is because i literally have had no time to be here.

[Persivul]

i'm aware of that, but it's not like i haven't laid out *any* reasoning at all in the game thread.

If you can't be bothered putting it together, I'm not going to. I'm bored but not that bored. I can always look at tattoo designs.

if you're going to ask me for further elaboration on either of these reads,

I'm not, at least not until we're at two days or so before deadline. Nothing's going to happen before then, unless Troy shakes it up.

[Errantparabola]

i'm aware of that, but it's not like i haven't laid out *any* reasoning at all in the game thread.

If you can't be bothered putting it together, I'm not going to. I'm bored but not that bored. I can always look at tattoo designs.

if you're going to ask me for further elaboration on either of these reads,

I'm not, at least not until we're at two days or so before deadline. Nothing's going to happen before then, unless Troy shakes it up.

Not sure if this is scum not so subtly setting an example of apathetic play for town to follow or town tired of the grind. Either way this is pretty antitown play. Ill direct you to the post summarizing their thoughts on maxwell.

[Errantparabola]

because both of us believe the arguments against us are terrible.

i don't think he thinks this?

I personally didn't like his reaction* I mean. To me it felt like he was overreacting at least.

Anyway, what do you think about Maxwell?

probably scum. two things i can think of OTOH that i disliked about his play have been 1. the way he kinda sorta just sat and perpetuated trivium/brun d1 without really getting involved in it, and 2. him token opposing the fox wagon yesterday without a real thought process behind it. i also don't like the fact that he's absent today

[Errantparabola]

Ika what do you think about my admittedly messy 1020?
Was that post really as useless as i thought it was?
Ranger seems to think so.

Iso on ranger commencing.

[Persivul]

WTF, do you want ika to tell you you're a good boy and scratch behind your ears? That was pretty disgusting.

[Errantparabola]

The question that I think would clarify my reads the most is-- are Ranger and Brunneis the same alignment, and is that alignment more likely to be town or scum?

The stuff in parentheses has been added at the end.
(I want to talk about my conclusion first. I think that Ranger bussing Brunneis might be a real possibility.
BUT I AM EXTREMELY HESITANT OF THIS CONCLUSION AND I THINK IT IS UNLIKELY FOR THREE REASONS

1) BRUNNEIS IS MY TOP TOWNREAD OUT OF THE LYNCHPOOL STILL

2) THEIR D2 INTERACTIONS SEEM REAL AND I'LL CLARIFY THIS LATER

3) BECAUSE I THINK THERE IS SOME VERY REAL CONFIRMATION BIAS THAT I HAVE, BASED ON RANGER'S FRANKLY HORRIBLE REASON FOR TOWNREADING BRUNNEIS VERY RECENTLY. I HAVE TRIED TO BE AS OBJECTIVE AS POSSIBLE BUT FRANKLY I FEEL LIKE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID THE FACT THAT I CAME UP WITH THIS CONCLUSION BEFORE I DIVED INTO RANGER'S ISO AND HAVE MERELY FOUND FACTS SUPPORTING IT. SO TAKE THIS CONCLUSION WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. MANY GRAINS OF SALT.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT I HAVE TO LOOK AT OTHER ASSOCIATIONS BETWEEN RANGER AND OTHER PEOPLE I THINK.
BUT MY TOWNREAD ON BRUNNEIS IS UNCHANGED. I THINK I'M LEANING SCUM ON RANGER.

I FEEL SO FUCKING PARANOID AND CONFUSED THIS GAME

Sorry for the Caps Lock. I won't bother going back and fixing it.)

Ranger's wagon analysis leads her to believe that two of me, brunneis, and trivium are scum.
Brunneis is suspicious of ranger for "bailing on the Errant wagon" and ranger responds indignantly.
Beginning of D2 seems to still think Brunneis is scum. But it's reduced to an "I'm watching you closely, Brunneis" instead of any actual voting or pressure going on.
514 she says she is not sold on Brunneis.
515 Says that Brunneis was probably a counterwagon on my wagon, which might be one of the more baffling things that Ranger has said. If Ranger's suspicion on the sudden dissipation of my wagon is to be believed, then there would be no reason for scum to push MY WAGON ON TO ANOTHER SCUM. Like, what?
Keeps saying Brunneis is scum with me and makara, but doesn't engage her scumreads in any real way other than that. Also so far seems to not give any real reasons for Brunneis being scum other than wagon analysis. See a trend?
Actual engagement in 557. This is the one thing i've seen that goes against my bussing theory. Ranger talks about Brunneis' page 22 being obvscum but I frankly don't see this either. Most of the things that Ranger has been saying this game I just don't follow. And that makes me concerned. Then they argue about me for a bit, w/e.
Hops on the Brunneis wagon D2, stating that he's unsure about whether it's L2 or L3. HONESTLY? I don't think that a scum partner would say something like this. I think a scum partner would actually want to keep track of where their partner is at, lynch-wise. Is this lack of concern faked or real? I think it could go either way.
595 is about Brunneis and Ranger admitting that her scumread on Brunneis is admittedly not as strong as other people, and also saying that she feels obligated to engage in her scumreads (which is a very good way to play the game I think). This post seriously messes with my head.
When Persivul comes in the game, Ranger jumps on the alternate lynch proposal made by Max on Pers. I find it interesting that Ranger, being so adamant for a Brunneis lynch, jumps on this wagon and puts Persivul at her top scumread.
and then in D3, decides that when the pressure lets off of Brunneis, she's going to townread Brunneis for reasons that I've already questioned.

So here is a possible train of thought for optimal bussing strategy for Ranger.
One. "I want to apply enough pressure so that the bussing is genuine, but not enough pressure so that Brunneis gets lynched."
Two. "I want to apply pressure to Brunneis when other people are pressuring Brunneis so that I don't stand out if Brunneis flips."
Three. "However, I don't want to be the person that pressures Brunneis the most because again, that might get Brunneis lynched."
Four. "This is because if someone pressures Brunneis at, say, Level 10, and I pressure Brunneis at Level 5, then I don't control the limit to how close Brunneis is to getting lynched, the Level 10 person does."
Five. "I don't want Brunneis to be my top scumread, because I still want town to get lynched."
Six. "I will have to fabricate some reasons for me to scumread Brunneis when others are, and to townread Brunneis when others are."

Obviously, this is moving into WIFOM territory, but I feel like Ranger openly admitting to doing some of these things makes this argument less strong.
I also think that the one, shining period between the Errant Age and the Persivul Age for Ranger where she attacked Brunneis almost solely (Beginning of D2) makes this argument less strong.

CONCLUSIONS:
1. I think that there is at least one scum between Ranger and Brunneis.
2. I think that one scum is just as likely as two scum.
3. I think that out of the two, Ranger is likely to be the scum.
4. I am not confident about all of the above.
5. I spent one hour on doing something that drew no definite conclusions.

[Errantparabola]

WTF, do you want ika to tell you you're a good boy and scratch behind your ears? That was pretty disgusting.

1) It is testament to how long I spent on that last post that your post came up after I started.
2) Do you think that I expect townpoints for doing something that scum can obviously do just as easily? Do you think that I'm that stupid?

[Ranger]

MOD: If you haven't already replaced me, Emergency V/LA.

I'd have announced it BEFORE having been without internet for 48 hours, but the thing about weather-induced access issues is that they are weather induced and not exactly something that I could have planned for.

Gah, this is annoying. The blasted power's STILL not back, even two freakin' days later, and the 'net I AM borrowing is limited and PAINFULLY slow.

Back on page 43, will talk when I return.

[Persivul]

Don't worry, you're not missing anything.

[Persivul]

I FEEL SO FUCKING PARANOID AND CONFUSED THIS GAME

Obvious fake townslip is obvious.

[Errantparabola]

I FEEL SO FUCKING PARANOID AND CONFUSED THIS GAME

Obvious fake townslip is obvious.

By all means, continue with your condescending remarks.

[Persivul]

I personally didn't like his reaction* I mean. To me it felt like he was overreacting at least.

Anyway, what do you think about Maxwell?

probably scum. two things i can think of OTOH that i disliked about his play have been 1. the way he kinda sorta just sat and perpetuated trivium/brun d1 without really getting involved in it, and 2. him token opposing the fox wagon yesterday without a real thought process behind it. i also don't like the fact that he's absent today

First, I apologize as I've been trolling due to boredom and frustration with the lack of effort being put forth in this game. So, here's a serious post.

Regarding "the way he kinda sorta just sat and perpetuated trivium/brun d1 without really getting involved in it":

Here's the main posts referencing brun and triv:

120 - Implies a contradiction between two of triv's posts
133 - Brun said varsoon and triv could be scum partners, max asks for explanation
193 - votes brun, says triv "is reading honest to me at a gut level"
253 - OK, this must be where the above charge begins - "I disagree with Trivium's arguments against Brunneis, and it makes me pause..."
292 - votes trivium - "Trivium's flawed reasoning is their attempt to get onto the Brunneis wagon without being contested for sleeping or naked voting."
305 - still trivium over brun. Asks duppin which of the two he'd lynch. I believe the VC is 3-3 at this point.
362 - repeats question to duppin and asks for his reads in general
386 - says "their interactions suggest it'd be weird for both of them to be scum"

He starts on brun, switches to triv, and stays on triv for the rest of the day. What's the problem with this? Have you considered that it may just be a play style issue? While you presumably see the question to duppin as perpetuating brun/triv, it could just as easily be his method of pushing triv. Some people would rather influence others by asking questions and planting seeds than being direct. Someone with a more direct play style could "kinda sorta" see this as not "really getting involved."

So, that charge rings hollow to me. But this does raise the question of the change on triv from 193 to 253. The reasoning given is somewhat rambling and ambiguous: "I disagree with Trivium's arguments against Brunneis, and it makes me pause. It's hard to explain, but Trivium is saying that Brunneis should be trying to advance the game, instead of trying to 'look town'? Usually when scum want to look town, they try to ask questions, share reads, etc. Or, well.. Basically I don't like Trivium's case, and it makes me second-guess myself on Brunneis. Like, accusing then of trying to look town while also saying that they should be doing more to advance the game... There's no other way to look town without doing the latter, is there?"

That's not very good, but is it scummy? The scum motivation would be if brun is also scum. Max gets on brun early for distancing, but a wagon builds, so he moves to a counter wagon on a pretext. However, I share your opinion that brun is likely town, so that reason doesn't hold, and I don't see scum motivation to move off town!brun.

Regarding "him token opposing the fox wagon yesterday without a real thought process behind it":

First, fox has flipped SK. Knowing that, why would scum oppose the wagon?

Going to the ISO:

526 - Gives a really wishy-washy read on grayfox, but there's no wagon on him at this point.
873 - "From skimming this pages posts I'm seeing a Grayfox wagon. While better than a Brunneis one I'm not sure if I'm feeling it. Ranger or Errant would be better imo but I haven't properly read up yet."

And that's it. Seriously - you have two points against him and that's one of them - that he'd rather wagon Ranger or Errant?

This is pretty underwhelming. You need a lot more than this for a mylo lynch. You could easily be scumreading him for having a different playstyle and being less competent and eloquent than yourself. The only way I would buy this would be with a clear meta argument showing more directness and greater certainty in reads.

[Troy McClure]

Hi! Im Troy McClure and you may remember me from such show as C4++: The Exploding, and Celebrity Math Battles: Addition Edition.

Between my many acting jobs, I will be studying this screenplay and have my thoughts by tomorrow.

[Brunneis]

I would say this is a prodge, but I have a policy as to not flake to death, plus - I need to point out a few things:

No, because I think people are going to purposely paint anything I say as suspicious, or plain ignore it. That didn't stop me yesterday, but now that it's mylo, we can't afford that.

This is kind of out of left-field

I'm the one engaging YOU with the questions; if anyone wants to start onto the discussion with their thoughts - that's the whole point of us sorting shit out.

If people ignore you, or anyone else - that's a major indicator that they aren't town whose open to discussion.

And currently, you really haven't responded to my questions toward you. So I'm kind of torn on whether your caution is town or scum motivated?

Did the votes just reset? I thought we were much closer to a lynch than this.
Anyways, my other head probably is feeling less motivated to play this game, and I can understand why.

Right now, I just want to lynch someone and call it a day. Would prefer someone in Ranger/duppin/Brunneis.

-Fire

this is literally all of my town reads

can you please consider maxwell-slot? I haven't had any time to look at the game you linked, but I will when I have it.

Can you explain your Ranger and Duppin townreads? I can see Duppin being town at this point.... but eck, I'm not a fan of his posts overall. I appreciate their recent engagements, however.

Also, what do you think about Errant?

Another thing:

But Ika - you haven't given a huge case on Max, I want to see more of your scumread reasoning on him.

Or has this changed with Troy's replace in?

>>>>

I don't know about Kling she's been a bit busy. But I'm getting closer to the idea that Errant and Duppin could be town.

In any case, I'm not going to be very supportive over a lynch on them at this point. This may change after I speak to Klingon but I'm not sure about that.

Currently, I can say the same for Max's slot, tbh. Troy just got into this game, so I want to see his catch-up post and go from there before I make a clear decision on him. But I think he's more likely scum than Errant or Duppin....

So to me that leaves Persivul and Ranger for likely-scum possibilities.

But - boo hoo - I know this isn't too accurate because I know there are probably 3 scum in this set-up. So I guess Troy can join Pers and Ranger on a lesser priority.

And guys, since tomorrow is Friday - which is Brunneis-Conversation day.

QUESTION ME. STEP ON MY TOES (and I'll step on yours). I INSIST. (but I'll be in school for half of that time, but I'll post a few.)

~Taly

[Brunneis]

This is the Klingon head, I'll be back tomorrow too, some R/L came up.

[Ika Musume]

He starts on brun, switches to triv, and stays on triv for the rest of the day. What's the problem with this? Have you considered that it may just be a play style issue? While you presumably see the question to duppin as perpetuating brun/triv, it could just as easily be his method of pushing triv. Some people would rather influence others by asking questions and planting seeds than being direct. Someone with a more direct play style could "kinda sorta" see this as not "really getting involved."

the problem with this is that there was literally no focus whatsoever outside of either Trivium or Brun. anywhere. *if* he had other scum reads elsewhere, or was questioning other people in the game, or getting people to take stances outside of that, I would agree. but there is basically fucking nothing, outside of one or two posts which I can only really see as scum reads or questioning if I squint. he had a scum read on GM for like one post, and apparently a weak scum read on Errant - which he did nothing to push at all - and that was it.

regardless of playstyle, town *do not* play an entire game day around nothing but consensus reads without any effort to engage other scum reads whatsoever. they just don't. most town players will look at, or at least make any attempt whatsoever to develop, at least some reads elsewhere. he did not

another issue I have with how he played this was, for all the focus on Trivium/Brun, there was hardly anything directed *to* either of them, just passing comments. I could see him pushing them via asking other people questions (hell I do it all the time), but if he was doing this, why wouldn't he bother to ask at least something towards themselves? any sort of comment on what they were posting would have done, but literally

nothing

after 292, no "I don't like post X" or anything at all seriously go and check.

I guess it is possible he thought that, despite Trivium/Brun pretty much dominating D1 to the point of there being a severe lack of discussion elsewhere, that the best way to approach it would be to follow along with it as much as possible ... and then deliberately avoid taking any hard stance on anything they had actually done ... but I think it makes a lot more sense as scum wanting to keep a 1v1 going without wanting to commit too hard to a stance either way (thus looking risking bad after a town flip).

So, that charge rings hollow to me. But this does raise the question of the change on triv from 193 to 253. The reasoning given is somewhat rambling and ambiguous: "I disagree with Trivium's arguments against Brunneis, and it makes me pause. It's hard to explain, but Trivium is saying that Brunneis should be trying to advance the game, instead of trying to 'look town'? Usually when scum want to look town, they try to ask questions, share reads, etc. Or, well.. Basically I don't like Trivium's case, and it makes me second-guess myself on Brunneis. Like, accusing then of trying to look town while also saying that they should be doing more to advance the game... There's no other way to look town without doing the latter, is there?"

That's not very good, but is it scummy? The scum motivation would be if brun is also scum. Max gets on brun early for distancing, but a wagon builds, so he moves to a counter wagon on a pretext. However, I share your opinion that brun is likely town, so that reason doesn't hold, and I don't see scum motivation to move off town!brun.

disagree. I think there's a fairly straightforward scum motivation with both Trivium and Brun as town: having a giant town vs. town shitfight going on is really beneficial for scum because it'd generate a bunch of noise and keep everyone in the game distracted. thus, scum would benefit greatly from attempting to keep something like Trivium vs. Brun going if they were able to do so.

I take issue with 253, in particular, for specifically this reason. the line of thought he gave there makes literally no sense. in the first place, when someone accuses someone of "trying to look town" or "not advancing the game", the obvious implication is that they don't think anything they've done has *actually* advanced the game (that is, scum faking it). but, moreover, even if we're working under the assumption he believed it, there is no progression from 193 to here. Trivium's arguments not holding up logically seemed to be a weak enough point to not take issue with it when he made 193, so why is it a big deal now?

it's inconsistent because there is no real thought process there. he's not legitimately forming reads, he's using it as an excuse to flip flop in between Trivium and Brun in order to fuel the 1v1.

the scum motivation for moving off town-Brun is the same idea. he moved off because it didn't matter which one got lynched; they're both town, and given people's universal scum reads on one or both of them and how it played out, whichever one didn't get lynched would almost certainly be lynched the next day or at the very least put under heavy scrutiny. in fact, I would say Brun flat-out _would_ have been lynched if it wasn't for me coming in here and derailing it, so I don't have any idea why you'd disagree there is scum motivation here. I don't think there necessarily had to be any further strategic reasoning behind it, but it is a valid course of action and pretending to flip flop back and forth between the two reads would be an okay-ish way to look like you were generating content.

the last scum game I played was essentially an autowin for me and my partner for similar reasons: _three_ (not just two) town players got into a massive shitfight with each other, and all we had to do was sit back and watch it happen. and - as I think was the case with Brun and Trivium - we mislynched _all three_ players in succession and won the game.

Regarding "him token opposing the fox wagon yesterday without a real thought process behind it":

First, fox has flipped SK. Knowing that, why would scum oppose the wagon?

Going to the ISO:

SK != mafia - from a mafia POV, any lynch on someone who isn't them is the same in terms of their alignment. he likely just didn't care

526 - Gives a really wishy-washy read on grayfox, but there's no wagon on him at this point.
873 - "From skimming this pages posts I'm seeing a Grayfox wagon. While better than a Brunneis one I'm not sure if I'm feeling it. Ranger or Errant would be better imo but I haven't properly read up yet."

And that's it. Seriously - you have two points against him and that's one of them - that he'd rather wagon Ranger or Errant?

This is pretty underwhelming. You need a lot more than this for a mylo lynch. You could easily be scumreading him for having a different playstyle and being less competent and eloquent than yourself. The only way I would buy this would be with a clear meta argument showing more directness and greater certainty in reads.

that wasn't my point at all; I don't have any issue with him wanting to lynch someone who wasn't fox. what I take issue with is the complete lack of any depth at all behind it. he had literally no fucking reasoning. even if he isn't an eloquent player, or isn't good at explaining his reads, he should at least have *some* reasoning for being held up on the fox wagon, or *some* thoughts on what had happened since he posted, or any reasoning at all.

he didn't. on the other hand, I find it is ridiculously common for scum to attempt to oppose wagons for ambiguous reasons, since it allows them to point back and say "I was right about this!" in order to gain town credit when a mislynch goes through when in reality they weren't actually posting relevant content or doing anything to derail the wagon on one of their supposed town reads.

[Ika Musume]

in 386, maxwell acknowledges it would be a poor idea to just lynch the other one of {Brun, Trivium} if one flipped town.

D1 ends, and D2 begins with Trivium flipping town.

521: his first D2 post, where he has a scum read on Errant. 526 and 528 are his next two posts, where he doesn't pressure Errant at all. this might be OK, except for the next post.

548: backtracks on his previous town read on Brun, ignores his scum read on Errant, to vote Brun for "soft defending Errant" - this despite the fact this is reliant on Errant flipping scum - when Brun was the leading wagon and

despite

the fact that an Errant wagon would have been viable at that time (see: VC on that page).

moreover, in this whole progression, he dropped the "lynching the other one is dumb" idea immediately: no attempt at divining whether, or who, the scum who were taking of advantage of it were, and he fucking votes Brun instead of Errant himself when, given what he's posted, the Errant vote should have been more appealing AND VIABLE. what does this look like? town who believes their reads, or scum preparing for that second chain mislynch they were planning on D1 after the first of Trivium/Brun got lynched?

seriously, what the fuck do people read as town here?

[Ika Musume]

their progression on Errant might just be distancing, tbh.

reading their ISO from the top, they push Errant all game, even after 548, and then ... never ... vote her, despite what I just pointed out about the votes and despite backing off of Brun after the wagon dissolved.

[Ika Musume]

Can you explain your Ranger and Duppin townreads? I can see Duppin being town at this point.... but eck, I'm not a fan of his posts overall. I appreciate their recent engagements, however.

duppin town read on a general level is that he's put more effort into game solving than would be necessary from scum in this position - I don't feel remotely strongly about it, though, and want to ISO him (and Errant) in depth after I finish scanning through maxwell's ISO again.

I thought most of Ranger's recent posts were fairly solid, plus it would kind of suck if she thought she'd have to fake frustration as scum to get out of being scum read.

[Ika Musume]

Errant was kind of a low-key scumread for most of the game. I've never really liked her posting when she's been around, but my interest in her was overshadowed by Trivium and Brunneis. I thought both of them were more worth looking at, especially since other people seemed to be seeing what I was seeing.

they say this, then after Trivium got lynched they _still_ didn't bother pursuing the Errant scumread. if their reason was really that Trivium/Brun were overshadowing everything else in the thread, they would have done so after the shitstorm between the two of them stopped, not kinda sorta sat around until finding a reason to keep voting Brun, which is what they did.

and by "pursuing" I don't even mean voting, I mean literally anything at all, which they still didn't do, and no, one line in passing is not pursuing it.

[Ika Musume]

what I'm getting out of this, is a solid, body-of-work scum read, based on their actions over the course of the entire game. I usually don't like to pull specific posts this late in the game; what someone does on a body of work level is usually a lot more telling to me. I think in terms of the stances maxwell took when it actually mattered most, there is a severe inconsistency in the approach they said they were taking and what their reads actually were (Brun D2 being the main one), and basically all of their stances have fairly compelling scum motivation behind them (Brun/Triv D1, Brun D2, Errant D2, Gray D2, on and on and on and on).

it might not look like much, but yes, this is a lot of evidence for someone who only made 45 posts - as I said, I don't like to nitpick on every single post someone makes.

[Persivul]

the problem with this is that there was literally no focus whatsoever outside of either Trivium or Brun. anywhere. *if* he had other scum reads elsewhere, or was questioning other people in the game, or getting people to take stances outside of that, I would agree. but there is basically fucking nothing, outside of one or two posts which I can only really see as scum reads or questioning if I squint. he had a scum read on GM for like one post, and apparently a weak scum read on Errant - which he did nothing to push at all - and that was it.

regardless of playstyle, town *do not* play an entire game day around nothing but consensus reads without any effort to engage other scum reads whatsoever. they just don't. most town players will look at, or at least make any attempt whatsoever to develop, at least some reads elsewhere. he did not

OK. Let's look at duppin's activity for the day:

22 & 30 - RVS
68 - Comment on a makara post
119 - "Trivium, what do you think about Brunneis?"
160 - "Trivium, please answer me."
265 - More on triv and brun
359 - Notes that FH is IC, then back to brun
364 - Responds to Max's question about triv and brun. Refuses to give other reads.
365 - Follow-up to 364, something about proving towniness
442 - Votes triv, and is willing to switch to brun

In conclusion, duppin is scum by your own standards.

He played an entire game day around nothing but consensus reads without any effort to engage other scum reads whatsoever.

Someone might argue to you that some players have different playstyles from you and might do that as town, but you've already declared:

they just don't.

So, I'm sure you'll join me in:

VOTE: duppin

But I doubt it. You called it earlier:

1013 - "duppin can win if he's scum solely for being like the one person in this game who's actually attempting to refine their reads and work with people

i no longer care enough to read any more into it than that"

[duppin]

Um, Persivul? Do you realise what you just said? You basically said that me and Maxwell played the same way day 1, yet you only scumread me for it and not Maxwell. The difference between me and Maxwell, is that Maxwell has done nothing since day 1 while I have.
The way you are defending him makes me believe that he might be the roleblocker.

I still don't know who the last one is, but I don't think this discussion is worth having yet. Persivul and Maxwell are definitely scum and I am up for lynching either one. At the moment I believe that Maxwell might be the roleblocker simply based on Persivul's weird defense of him.