Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Thespio]

Hey, Im reading over this and then I post reads.

[Thespio]

Ok, here are my reads for D1, So far:

VeeGee

Spoiler:

Is not Stressed under Random Lynch from first post. Soft claims Town…

HenryCabotLodge

Spoiler:

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

notscience

Spoiler:

Bandwagons, then gets SUUUPER defencive when questioned: #11, #18
This makes me think they are scummy although they do back their behavior, so i place them on my watch list...

Akuseru

Spoiler:

If scum, so is veegee. He seems genuinely town and opposes D1 Random lynch. At this time they are leaning town.

JoramvanVugt

Spoiler:

Not a very supported vote, I want an reason. #10, but no reason to think they are scum.

StubbsKVM

Spoiler:

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

Micc

Spoiler:

Too Calm, urks me, I would like more info on Micc.

So I will be voting:
VOTE: HenryCabotLodge

[Thespio]

Thoughts?

[Thespio]

HenryCabotLodge

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

Where exactly in his post makes you think he might be scum?

He is justifying his random vote, when in truth there is no justification because its random, at the same time he is claiming he is bandwagon while he is actually the one who started the bandwagon. I find this scummy.

StubbsKVM

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

What makes you think he's a one? Why would that make him more likely to be town?

Honestly, his random chime in asking about experience is something I have only seen from a player who will attempt to justify a lynch. I hate when people try to make a claim based off. Its an annoying newbie thing to do, although he is kinda lurking so im watching him at this point.[/quote]

Micc
Too Calm, urks me, I would like more info on Micc.[/spoiler]

How did you conclude they were "calm"? Why does it urk you?

[/quote]
This is more of a gut feeling... its why i haven't given him town or scum assignment.

[Thespio]

@Akuseru, what are your scum reads so far?

[Thespio]

Thespio-
Re: Veegee- Why would scum be stressed after 2 votes in RVS, the second of which everyone else jumps on? In fact, he had a very subdued 'yeah, what he said' comment after it. That looks rather stressed.

Nah, he didnt freak out, so it wont strike against him.

Re: Me- Sharing reasons for voting someone makes me scummy? And being defensive is null, it's a matter of playstyle. But, whatever.

This 'Playstyle' is anti-town, and also unproductive, so more scum then town.

re: Akuseru- Why do you keep calling it a random lynch? I've repeatedly stated my vote is serious. What about his play seems "genuinely town" and what makes you think hes only scum if veegee is scum?

I said if he is scum so is veegee, not the other way around, he jumped to veegee's safety immediately, he is also more cautious which is pro town.

Re Micc: "too calm?" He only has his generic IC intro and a promsie to catch up. I don't see how this can even be a thing.

Are you vouching for him? because i didnt call him scum, but his posts make me nervous, more gut feeling than anything, as I stated.

If you arent opposed to HenryCabotLodge then lynching him shouldnt be an issue.

[Thespio]

Joram, Whats your reads?

[Thespio]

Dead....

[Thespio]

No i mean im dead, work is boring!

[Thespio]

Veegee reads? anyone wanna actually post reads?

[Thespio]

Ok, here are my reads for D1, So far:
...

You forgot me (and only me). I guess I haven't posted much so it is understandable.

but saying "hi" is the most innocuous, neutral thing a player can say.

I think that might be the point, that scum would say the most neutral thing possible.

Wouldn't a scum want to appear town, rather than neutral?

I guess I mean scum would want to draw the least amount of attention to themselves as possible.

Sorry dude, I have you on my spread sheet, however I didn't post it purely by accident.

[Thespio]

Thoughts?

I'm not a newbie.

Does green mean "town" and is yellow "null"? On your read of Joram, you say: no reason to think scum. However, you give no reason for reading him town.

Other than that, I am amazed at how fast you develop reads.

Yellow is suspicious, red is bad, Green is nuetral.

Thanks, I think.

[Thespio]

Thoughts?

I'm not a newbie.

Does green mean "town" and is yellow "null"? On your read of Joram, you say: no reason to think scum. However, you give no reason for reading him town.

Other than that, I am amazed at how fast you develop reads.

Thespio-
Re: Veegee- Why would scum be stressed after 2 votes in RVS, the second of which everyone else jumps on? In fact, he had a very subdued 'yeah, what he said' comment after it. That looks rather stressed.

Nah, he didnt freak out, so it wont strike against him.

Re: Me- Sharing reasons for voting someone makes me scummy? And being defensive is null, it's a matter of playstyle. But, whatever.

This 'Playstyle' is anti-town, and also unproductive, so more scum then town.

re: Akuseru- Why do you keep calling it a random lynch? I've repeatedly stated my vote is serious. What about his play seems "genuinely town" and what makes you think hes only scum if veegee is scum?

I said if he is scum so is veegee, not the other way around, he jumped to veegee's safety immediately, he is also more cautious which is pro town.

Re Micc: "too calm?" He only has his generic IC intro and a promsie to catch up. I don't see how this can even be a thing.

Are you vouching for him? because i didnt call him scum, but his posts make me nervous, more gut feeling than anything, as I stated.

If you arent opposed to HenryCabotLodge then lynching him shouldnt be an issue.

more cautious is pro town? Doesn't scum tend to be more afraid of being lynched, and therefore more cautious?

Generally yea, but caution is only a sign of scum when they shift to it when under pressure.

[Thespio]

Spoiler: Akuseru's Post 30

Mostly I want to know what pinged scummy in post 30 and why it was worthy of a vote?

HenryCabotLodge

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

Where exactly in his post makes you think he might be scum?

He is justifying his random vote, when in truth there is no justification because its random, at the same time he is claiming he is bandwagon while he is actually the one who started the bandwagon. I find this scummy.

yeah....I'm not exacltly satisfied with that answer.

@Thespio: Why is HenryCabotLodge more likely to be scum because he tried to justify his random vote? Why do you think his post 30 was justification for his random vote as opposed to an answer to notscience's game theorey question? Are you trying to suggest that HenryCabotLodge said he was being bandwagoned?

It is natural to want your strongest scumread to be lynched, but we're not far out of the random vote stage and people have mostly posted only in vague generalities- like I've said, seems reckless to me and an early lynch without much to go on would be something I think scum would push for.

What makes it more likely to be scum gunning for an early mislynch than town agressivly pressuring in order to get a stronger read? Why is the scum motivation more likely than the town motivation?

---

RE to roleclaim discussion: Claims generally happen at L-1 (one vote from being lynched) on this site. Personally I don't have a problem with anyone pushing a wagon to get more votes and reach a claim even this early in the game. Without wagons its tough to get strong reads. Day 1 claims before L-1 are bad and shouldn't happen. I don't think thats what Jordamvanvugt was suggesting though.

He seems to forget that he was the first to post a vote, if you notice he does it again on page 2, He is trying to shift the circumstances of his vote. Also, If you have an issue with me sharing my opinion about everyone then you are to sensitive to be playing a game. You still urk me though, Less based on post and more based on the spirit of your posts, you attack me for saying I see something as scummy, not only does this hurt town because we can no longer consider everyone opinions but it also pulls from towns interactions.

You what to know what pings scummy specifically?

The first part of his post in 30 justifies how we should just follow along with a random lynch, and the second half indicates that we shouldn't look at his post as though he is town or scum because they all play different.

Then in his post #63 he supports a bandwagon by saying:

A wagon with nothing to go on is different from one predicated one somebody building a case or whatever, but pressure is still pressure and it forces people to have opinions.

and yet bellow it recants and says:

I unvoted VeeGee because it's silly to have a random vote at this point

If cannot say in all honesty that he doesnt look scummy.

I agree that claims are not a D1 thing, But chances are all but 1-2 of us will say Vanilla townie, because the loadout on page one indicates that at most there can be 2 non-vanilla roles.

[Thespio]

Stoz

Spoiler:

Stoz is active and cautious which is good and what I expect from a Town member, He hasn't given any scum indicators away.

[Thespio]

It is natural to want your strongest scumread to be lynched, but we're not far out of the random vote stage and people have mostly posted only in vague generalities- like I've said, seems reckless to me and an early lynch without much to go on would be something I think scum would push for.

Its what you pushed for!

A wagon with nothing to go on is different from one predicated one somebody building a case or whatever, but pressure is still pressure and it forces people to have opinions

Then you post:

I see some flimsy reads and unhelpful theorizing on how scum play

after you theorize!

[Thespio]

And you did it post it then either?

Posted it later, I said I was dead because I left work, my spread sheet is at my work. Posted it here:

Stoz

Spoiler:

Stoz is active and cautious which is good and what I expect from a Town member, He hasn't given any scum indicators away.

[Thespio]

I can think of a 5 letter answer~

Scum is 4 letters... what is are the 5 letters?

[Thespio]

Thespio, please cite where I pushed for a random lynch. I placed a random vote, since it was the random voting stage of the game. If you're not familiar, that's when people cast random votes. This game is unusual in that it moved out of that stage very quickly. I did advocate early bandwagons, but never lynches. There's a difference between the two- a bandwagon does not always end in a lynch.

It is natural to want your strongest scumread to be lynched, but we're not far out of the random vote stage and people have mostly posted only in vague generalities- like I've said, seems reckless to me and an early lynch without much to go on would be something I think scum would push for.

Its what you pushed for!

A wagon with nothing to go on is different from one predicated one somebody building a case or whatever, but pressure is still pressure and it forces people to have opinions

Then you post:

I see some flimsy reads and unhelpful theorizing on how scum play

after you theorize!

So you have a problem with me giving a legitimate reason for having an early bandwagon? My "theorizing" was a direct response to another player asking me my opinion. It's different from the people who posted "I think scum will play like such and such" of their own accord. Don't draw an equivalence.

Ok so I'll Start at the beginning:

1st - You Random vote:

Spoiler:

VOTE: VeeGee

I don't care for your tone.

2nd - You attempt to justify random bandwagons:

Spoiler:

I expect bandwagoning for its own sake to work because there are different reactions to a bandwagon that we can work through as a town. We can see who hops on opportunistically, we can see who opposes it, we can see who posts a thesis on the legitimacy of the bandwagon, etc.- the point is that bandwagoning is a viable, and beneficial, way to get out of RVS. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting.

3rd - You tell us not to analyze behavior:

Spoiler:

I think everybody has different views as to what "townie", "neutral", and "scummy" play is. I don't think it does much good to get bogged down in semantics and personal definitions. I think the only thing that works in a game like this is finding logical inconsistencies and examining voting patterns. You can do any amount of intellectual gymnastics to make any person's play seem townie or scummy.

4th - You tell us bandwagons are good:

Spoiler:

A wagon with nothing to go on is different from one predicated one somebody building a case or whatever, but pressure is still pressure and it forces people to have opinions.

5th - You tell us Random Voting is bad and recant, thus closing your random bandwagon:

Spoiler:

I unvoted VeeGee because it's silly to have a random vote at this point

6th - You try to justify your actions 1-5

Spoiler:

See quote at top of this post

And on top of it all you tell us not to theorize and do it yourself, but its you so you claim its justified. Please make up your mind what you believe, overall the inconsistency seems scummy. You swap views super fast and this is anti-town.

Thus my vote will remain:

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge

[Thespio]

It looks there's some confusion in what I wanted as far as the bandwagon. I did not want to lynch somewhere at random and I don't think anything I've said has indicated otherwise. My vote (which has been off for like 3 posts no2) was at random. I cast it in the random voting stage. If you're not familiar, that's where random votes are cast. In my (limited) experience, an early bandwagon on a player is a good way to get out of the random voting stage and spur real discussion and rarely, if ever, ends up in a lynch. A lynch based off a random vote bandwagon is stupid. Speaking of stupid, I found it interesting how JoramanVugt basically aped all of Thespio's arguments against me (with the edifying addition of "idk you just seem to suspicious to me"). Could be a possible connection there.

Or someone else sees the logic behind my reads, you come across very scummy especially since you have nothing showing us you are town and even more saying you are inconsistent and support random bandwagons. Of course you dont like me im leading a charge against you! if you didnt it would be suspicious, although you deflecting still adds to the suspicion.

[Thespio]

Generally yea, but caution is only a sign of scum when they shift to it when under pressure.

I did...

[Thespio]

@Akuseru, what are your scum reads so far?

Don't really have any definite scum reads atm, tbh . I've been excusing (what I consider) a couple of scum slips as possible newbie behaviour. Hopefully, as they post more, I can make a better decision on where they lie (ie: Mafia or Just New).


I would also appreciate it if StubbsKVM would post more. I was kinda disappointed when, after a wait, you only posted some comments and disappeared again.


@VeeGee: You're lacking in presence, dear.

I was also disappointed that Thespio had completely ignored all of my points. This raises a few question marks... Care to comment on it, Thespio?

What points? you are attributing things to people being new? or the fact StubbsKVM hasn't been posting? Sorry if i missed something but i dont see anything explicitly aimed at me.

[Thespio]

Thoughts?

I'm not a newbie.

Does green mean "town" and is yellow "null"? On your read of Joram, you say: no reason to think scum. However, you give no reason for reading him town.

Other than that, I am amazed at how fast you develop reads.

Yellow is suspicious, red is bad, Green is nuetral.

Thanks, I think.

which color is town?

At this point there are no confirmed town, when we do I will change them to blue.

[Thespio]

I'm having a hard time following your thought process, Thespio.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but you believe scummy behaviour includes:

1. Not defending yourself

Spoiler:

Or someone else sees the logic behind my reads, you come across very scummy especially since you have nothing showing us you are town and even more saying you are inconsistent and support random bandwagons. Of course you dont like me im leading a charge against you!

if you didnt it would be suspicious

, although you deflecting still adds to the suspicion.

2. Defending yourself

Spoiler:

Or someone else sees the logic behind my reads, you come across very scummy especially since you have nothing showing us you are town and even more saying you are inconsistent and support random bandwagons. Of course you dont like me im leading a charge against you! if you didnt it would be suspicious,

although you deflecting still adds to the suspicion.

3. Switching to cautious behaviour

Spoiler:

Generally yea, but

caution is only a sign of scum when they shift to it when under pressure.

In other words, not matter what HenryCabotLodge says or does at this point, they'll just be piling on your suspicions?





Also, based on your reads earlier (again, correct me if I'm misunderstanding), neutral/non-scummy behaviour includes

1. Not directly responding to votes against you (ie: ignore them)

Spoiler:

VeeGee
Spoiler:
Is not Stressed under Random Lynch from first post. Soft claims Town…

2. Make a vote, but make sure you don't support it with a reason

Spoiler:

JoramvanVugt
Spoiler:
Not a very supported vote, I want an reason. #10, but no reason to think they are scum.

1&2: in 1 im more saying: If you wanted us to lynch you it would be suspicious, But either way its not defending that seems scummy its why and how. If someone is paniced and begins trying to defend themselves and shift attention away from themselves then they seem scummy. People reacting calmly is fine and indicates discipline but we are in a newb lobby so i dont expect everyone to have this down.

3: this is an indicator, if someone is constantly swapping views then they are hurting town, and look scummy to me.

1.a) again he reacts to being lynched calmly, which usually indicated there isnt much to hide.

2.a) If you actually read what I said you would see im saying I want to know why they voted in #10, I never said they were scum because of it, in fact i said it didnt indicate they were scum.

[Thespio]

Thank you. I think I'm getting a feel on how you think. I don't agree with majority of your reasoning, but at least I have a better understanding of how you came to it.


@Thespio:

Moving away from HCL for a sec, what are your thoughts on Veegee's lurking?


In this case:

Stoz

Stoz is active and cautious which is good and what I expect from a Town member, He hasn't given any scum indicators away.

I don't think actively lurking is a good town tactic and should give off "scum indicators" (or a new player who's not too sure about what they should do). Why is stoz more likely to be town?



@Veegee and Stoz: What are your thoughts on Thespio's argument against HCL? on HCL's responses to Thespio? Do their points hold up? Why or why not?

This is true too, Someone lurking tends to be mafia allowing town to fight itself. Veegee isnt missing he posted so he wouldnt be prodded,

Veegee please post reads!

He has significantly less to judge, I am willing to look @ him and turn away from HCL for now, but it doesnt clear HCL. HCL already said his scum view is based of vote patterns so if he anticipates vote patterns then its not something I will use to judge him.

If Veegee doesnt post He needs to be looked at more seriously.

[Thespio]

The question about stoz was also directed to you, Thespio

In this case:

Stoz

Stoz is active and cautious which is good and what I expect from a Town member, He hasn't given any scum indicators away.

I don't think actively lurking is a good town tactic and should give off "scum indicators" (or a new player who's not too sure about what they should do). Why is stoz more likely to be town?

Ah, i see, your questioning my read, when i wrote this, page 1 and a half, he hadnt been as hardcore lurking as he had, i was just pasting my initial observation of him.

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: HenryCabotLodge

For the sake of progress, I will remove my ballot, but im still keeping my eye on you Henry.Can we turn our attention to those who have been lurking? anyone else have scum reads page 5?

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: HenryCabotLodge

For the sake of progress, I will remove my ballot, but im still keeping my eye on you Henry.Can we turn our attention to those who have been lurking? anyone else have scum reads page 5?

Can you clarify what you mean by "for the sake of progress"? As much as I like having a vote taken off me, I'm really confused. You seemed suspicious enough of me to be ok with lynching me as early as post 37 in the thread and have spent most of your effort making arguments against me. I'm surprised you'd unvote me if I'm so scummy. Is it because you realize your arguments against me are fabrication and you can see they're not gaining any traction with the town?

Im still ok lynching you, its obvious that you are scum, but spamming the chatboard is allowing people to lurk as well. So I will brand you as 'Scum' and come back to you once everyone inputs.

I'll be interested to see if JoramanVugt removes his vote as well since he imitated Thespio's actions/ reasoning last time. If he decides to keep his vote on me, I think we should probe further into his logic.

I'm seeing a solid town effort from Akuseru- inquisitive and impartial. Same goes for notscience and StubbsKVM but I have a better gut feeling about Akuseru.

Everyone else has not posted enough for me to have an opinion on them.

I agree, Akuseru seems Pro-town at this point.

[Thespio]

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge No but everyone focusing on you allows people to lurk, you still have no actual reads, just generalizing someone who is clearly town as town. You are indecisive, change opinions like none other. If you want me to support your lynch then thats fine I will, the only reason you have to vote me is because I unvoted you? Thats fine, D1 Lynch will be you or I, because at this point you are a hindrance to town, and I dont see you ever helping because your view changes with the wind.

[Thespio]

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge No but everyone focusing on you allows people to lurk, you still have no actual reads, just generalizing someone who is clearly town as town. You are indecisive, change opinions like none other. If you want me to support your lynch then thats fine I will, the only reason you have to vote me is because I unvoted you? Thats fine, D1 Lynch will be you or I, because at this point you are a hindrance to town, and I dont see you ever helping because your view changes with the wind.

The only things that have "changed with the wind" this game are your votes and what rules of grammar you decide to follow.

By all means continue to not engage my points against you and dismiss my logic as "indecisive." The town will be the judge of who presents the more solid reasoning in this feud.

Ive already presented how inaccurate you are, and your ad hominem just supports the fact you have nothing to say. Your logic consists of:

Lets randomly bandwagon on people, dont question me or try to read people, but random voting is bad, and so is theorizing, but here is my theory.

You have already voted, unvoted, voted again, and still have yet to tell us what you think about the lurkers. You dismiss them all the same.

I was all for examining others D1, but you would prefer we lynch you instead, what are you trying to hide? dismissing the lurkers and now trying to end D1 without questioning them?


And your reads^ are crap, why are they scum? or is because we voted you? because if that's all you can provide then you have no case.

Reminder:

1st - You Random vote:

Spoiler:

VOTE: VeeGee

I don't care for your tone.

2nd - You attempt to justify random bandwagons:

Spoiler:

I expect bandwagoning for its own sake to work because there are different reactions to a bandwagon that we can work through as a town. We can see who hops on opportunistically, we can see who opposes it, we can see who posts a thesis on the legitimacy of the bandwagon, etc.- the point is that bandwagoning is a viable, and beneficial, way to get out of RVS. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting.

3rd - You tell us not to analyze behavior:

Spoiler:

I think everybody has different views as to what "townie", "neutral", and "scummy" play is. I don't think it does much good to get bogged down in semantics and personal definitions. I think the only thing that works in a game like this is finding logical inconsistencies and examining voting patterns. You can do any amount of intellectual gymnastics to make any person's play seem townie or scummy.

4th - You tell us bandwagons are good:

Spoiler:

A wagon with nothing to go on is different from one predicated one somebody building a case or whatever, but pressure is still pressure and it forces people to have opinions.

5th - You tell us Random Voting is bad and recant, thus closing your random bandwagon:

Spoiler:

I unvoted VeeGee because it's silly to have a random vote at this point

[Thespio]

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge No but everyone focusing on you allows people to lurk, you still have no actual reads, just generalizing someone who is clearly town as town. You are indecisive, change opinions like none other. If you want me to support your lynch then thats fine I will, the only reason you have to vote me is because I unvoted you? Thats fine, D1 Lynch will be you or I, because at this point you are a hindrance to town, and I dont see you ever helping because your view changes with the wind.

The only things that have "changed with the wind" this game are your votes and what rules of grammar you decide to follow.

By all means continue to not engage my points against you and dismiss my logic as "indecisive." The town will be the judge of who presents the more solid reasoning in this feud.

Ive already presented how inaccurate you are, and your ad hominem just supports the fact you have nothing to say. Your logic consists of:

Lets randomly bandwagon on people, dont question me or try to read people, but random voting is bad, and so is theorizing, but here is my theory.

You have already voted, unvoted, voted again, and still have yet to tell us what you think about the lurkers. You dismiss them all the same.

I was all for examining others D1, but you would prefer we lynch you instead, what are you trying to hide? dismissing the lurkers and now trying to end D1 without questioning them?


And your reads^ are crap, why are they scum? or is because we voted you? because if that's all you can provide then you have no case.

Reminder:

1st - You Random vote:

Spoiler:

VOTE: VeeGee

I don't care for your tone.

2nd - You attempt to justify random bandwagons:

Spoiler:

I expect bandwagoning for its own sake to work because there are different reactions to a bandwagon that we can work through as a town. We can see who hops on opportunistically, we can see who opposes it, we can see who posts a thesis on the legitimacy of the bandwagon, etc.- the point is that bandwagoning is a viable, and beneficial, way to get out of RVS. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting.

3rd - You tell us not to analyze behavior:

Spoiler:

I think everybody has different views as to what "townie", "neutral", and "scummy" play is. I don't think it does much good to get bogged down in semantics and personal definitions. I think the only thing that works in a game like this is finding logical inconsistencies and examining voting patterns. You can do any amount of intellectual gymnastics to make any person's play seem townie or scummy.

4th - You tell us bandwagons are good:

Spoiler:

A wagon with nothing to go on is different from one predicated one somebody building a case or whatever, but pressure is still pressure and it forces people to have opinions.

5th - You tell us Random Voting is bad and recant, thus closing your random bandwagon:

Spoiler:

I unvoted VeeGee because it's silly to have a random vote at this point

Yes I remember reading your outline of my posts. I also remember responding to them and explaining my logic in post 88, which I'll quote here:

Thespio, please cite where I pushed for a random lynch. I placed a random vote, since it was the random voting stage of the game. If you're not familiar, that's when people cast random votes. This game is unusual in that it moved out of that stage very quickly. I did advocate early bandwagons, but never lynches. There's a difference between the two- a bandwagon does not always end in a lynch.

It is natural to want your strongest scumread to be lynched, but we're not far out of the random vote stage and people have mostly posted only in vague generalities- like I've said, seems reckless to me and an early lynch without much to go on would be something I think scum would push for.

Its what you pushed for!

A wagon with nothing to go on is different from one predicated one somebody building a case or whatever, but pressure is still pressure and it forces people to have opinions

Then you post:

I see some flimsy reads and unhelpful theorizing on how scum play

after you theorize!

So you have a problem with me giving a legitimate reason for having an early bandwagon? My "theorizing" was a direct response to another player asking me my opinion. It's different from the people who posted "I think scum will play like such and such" of their own accord. Don't draw an equivalence.

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge

Im voting for you.
You start the game by random voting a person that says hi but then later in the game you unvote and say a random lynch is stupid even though you are the one that started all of this.
It seems like your opinion changes with every post. first you want a random lynch then you talk about people starting a random bandwaggon even though you were the one to start it. idk you just seem to suspicious to me.
If you were playing in my last game on another forum you would already be dead by now. somebody would have daykilled you already

Yes I started a game by random voting in the random voting stage. If you're unfamiliar, that's the stage where we cast random votes. You must have had a town of clairvoyants if they would've lynched me on page 4. Though I doubt their abilities if they're swayed by your arguments.

It looks there's some confusion in what I wanted as far as the bandwagon. I did not want to lynch somewhere at random and I don't think anything I've said has indicated otherwise. My vote (which has been off for like 3 posts no2) was at random. I cast it in the random voting stage. If you're not familiar, that's where random votes are cast. In my (limited) experience, an early bandwagon on a player is a good way to get out of the random voting stage and spur real discussion and rarely, if ever, ends up in a lynch. A lynch based off a random vote bandwagon is stupid. Speaking of stupid, I found it interesting how JoramanVugt basically aped all of Thespio's arguments against me (with the edifying addition of "idk you just seem to suspicious to me"). Could be a possible connection there.

Instead of responding to or engaging with me on this, you obstinately refuse to acknowledge them and just double down on what you had already been saying. I don't think you have much faith in your arguments since you removed your vote on me. I called you on it now we're in some kind of pissing match here. We're obviously at an impasse here- I think your arguments are dogshit and you refuse to acknowledge my explanations. Like I said before, the town can judge who comes out better in this.

You are flawed here, these points while similar contain more, unresponded to point of error on your scum part. You cannot dismiss them because you don't like being questioned. I also responded to this post after you made it. Dont exuse me like you have some flawless logic.

I called you on it now we're in some kind of pissing match here. We're obviously at an impasse here- I think your arguments are dogshit and you refuse to acknowledge my explanations. Like I said before, the town can judge who comes out better in this.

no what happened was, I went to look at the people lurking and you accused me of being scum, whats happening right now is what i wanted to avoid, an all out brawl that draws attention away from them. Your anger is another indicator of scum, now that you have been ousted you get upset and confrontational. The town isnt dumb, they will see this failure on your part to actual show why your logic, as I presented, is sound, and also will see your failure to support any votes you have made.

[Thespio]

As for my reads being crap, you're scum because you declared me to be "obvious" scum after making a career out of castigating me and then removed your vote on me claiming that it was in the interest of hearing from more people. I think it's because you realize your case on me failed to gain any momentum and you don't want to seem unreasonable pushing me when nobody else is doing so.

JoramvanVugt is scummy because he voted me for voting somebody in my first post (something which he also did- except mine was in the random voting stage, If you're unfamiliar that's where random votes are cast) then he proceeded to regurgitate the arguments you presented against me. Moreover, he also expressed a desire for me to roleclaim on the third page when I wasn't in any danger of being lynched which is asinine and would be completely detrimental to the town.

This is more than just OMGUS which is what you seem to be intimating.

Look if your interested in investigating him because A) he is lurking, and B) when he posts its regurgitating my statements then maybe you should post that, this is why I removed my vote from you. to give you a chance to input and also so i could find someone else to redirect pressure onto, but instead you decided to fight with me about my reads. In doing so looking more and more skummy, Your vote on me simply looks like OMGUS. No one will support your OMGUS vote that you responded to my arguments with. While he looks scummy I question why you are so adamant to lynch and brand anyone who thinks your suspicious as scum.

[Thespio]

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

[Thespio]

I personally feel like thespio and HCL are both town. At this point, I find it more likely that scum is amongst veegee, stoz, notscience, StubbsKVM, and Micc.

You did not include Joram in your scumlist, doest this mean you are townreading him, or have you simply forgotten him?

Thats my bad, when i wrote it i left a few people out by accident :/

[Thespio]

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

if you want to jump to lynching thats fine but I was more wondering what your opinion on him is.

Prod Request: Veegee

[Thespio]

doest this mean you are townreading him, or have you simply forgotten him?

Neither. At the time of posting, everyone in that list was null and that's where I think mafia is/was hiding. My read on JoramvanVugt is pretty obvious (particularly in my post on him earlier on in this page).

This is true... Alright then lets pressure him, although i feel he may have abandoned...

[Thespio]

notscience seems to be lurking as well, she has been online and not participating.

[Thespio]

What do you think of a veegee wagon?

Ill go for it if he doesnt start posting, if he turns scum then you deserve commendations, you would have call it...

[Thespio]

well 24 hrs, no post...

[Thespio]

@Micc: I'm not pushing for a lynch, I'm pushing for content.

You might start giving us some reads yourself.

HCL and NS are in my townpile.

Bulbazoor's entrance is okay, but not getting those warm fuzzy feelings yet.

I want to see more from Joram, but I fear he has abandoned the game.

UNVOTE:

for now

I'm on the same page micc is quick to condemn but slow to actually give reads. He is pretty focused on burning me for giving reads...

[Thespio]

Bulba already posted and I am not scumreading the slot, why do I need to keep voting?

Im more curious to know why you voted in the first place. Can you explain why you bothered pressuring the slot when it was empty if you didn't see it as scummy?

Im still here. just have nothing to share at the moment and im feeling kinda sick

How do you intend to form opinions worth sharing? What do you think the best way to find scum is?

This is a waste of time, he wasnt the one who started the pressure science was, it would make sence he would remove his vote since it wasnt a slot he was reading as scum, he was just bandwagonning with our suspicions, although he ended up abandoning not lurking. I want to know why science is lurking so hard.

[Thespio]

Uhh sure. He's dodged every follow up question I've asked in an attempt to get additional information. Its pretty clear he doesn't want to talk about it either which I don't find town.

Or he is honestly new and isnt sure what to say... You say you have hosted Newbie lobbies.

It was 2 days and change from Veegee's last post and Stubbs's vote and 5ish days into the game. Ive modded enough newbie games to know thats going to be a replacement 75% of the time. Not that it really matters. I still can fathom why votes would make the player more likely to come post than a prod from the moderator.

This is why I didnt vote Veegee, he seemed afk and his profile was inactive.

Then ask yourself what makes his two days worse than my 4. Its pretty clear he voted because two other players expressed they were annoyed and he expected to be able to place an under the radar vote. **bonus: hes the first person on the wagon if it goes through**

This is true, and an interesting thought, but we could say the same thing about you, who knows newbies, and yet is badgering (profile pic :p) someone into submission, even though you understand they are new.

[Thespio]

Its sad you are so obtrusive, Honestly dealing with you isnt worth the trouble, set an example if needs be, but doing so by showing that bullying anyone who questions you looks like you are trying really hard to appear town. Rather then questioning my ability or want to play this game we should probably look at how you have played, you prod dodged until you were called out, once called out you immediately began badgering everyone. If you think its stubbs why haven't you voted him?

[Thespio]

Lets do both @ the same time, Stubbs answer Micc's Q.

Akuseru pls post scum reads.

[Thespio]

yea the fact joram is on but not posting is a sign that joram is lurking really hardcore...

[Thespio]

I don't see any question I've missed, which one are you talking about, Thespio?

NVM I see where u answered it, sorry, why are you all still drilling him? It seems like he has reasoning behind his vote, pressure to cause a statement from veegee, what about that is inadequate?

Are we gonna ignore the fact that Akuseru says he has reads but wont post them...?

[Thespio]

I like that Micc is trying to spur discussion, but I think he's harping too much on Stubbs' vote, then non-vote, of VeeGee. I can see Stubbs' reasoning for the vote. The game was at a standstill and there were a lot of lurkers. He didn't necessarily scumread VeeGee, but the lurking was irksome and putting some pressure on him wasn't a bad way to get somebody in the game who hadn't said much yet but was still in an interesting (remember VeeGee was the subject of the first bandwagon). From what I gather, Micc's misgivings come from the fact that he doesn't think you should vote a player you are not actively scumreading, but I don't think the vote was anti-town.

How isnt it?

Its a way to put a vote in play that wont raise many eyebrows. That way he looks like he is scum hunting and hopefully gets town credit.

Unless you're buying that voting newbies after they appear to have flaked is a productive way to make them post?

I'm not sure there's any way to vote that doesn't raise eyebrows. Votes are prominent and noticeable on top of the fact that we get vote counts every page. And who was sure that VeeGee had flaked? I get that newbies replace out of games all the time, but it was just as likely at that point that he was actively lurking.

Its sad you are so obtrusive, Honestly dealing with you isnt worth the trouble, set an example if needs be, but doing so by showing that bullying anyone who questions you looks like you are trying really hard to appear town. Rather then questioning my ability or want to play this game we should probably look at how you have played, you prod dodged until you were called out, once called out you immediately began badgering everyone. If you think its stubbs why haven't you voted him?

It's almost heartening to see Thespio adopt his arrogant tone with somebody else. In a weird way, it makes him look more town because why would scum be so confrontational and prominent when they're trying not to draw suspicion to themselves? Maybe it's wifom, but scum Thespio seems a little less likely than it did before. I am however, annoyed at some of the things here. Thespio what makes Micc's questions "badgering" instead of pro-town discussion? Second, the last sentence of your post is the same reason why I had voted you in the first place (not voting the player you declare to be scummy). Are you saying that it's an illegitimate position to not have your vote on somebody you are prepared to publicly call scum?

You are obviously not caught up, He had voted him, and its badgering because the question was answered and micc asked it again,And my tone was well placed if you read, where have you been?

[Thespio]

Sorry, I was busy having a real life. Anyway, upon reread, your tone seems misplaced if anything. Why are you so intent on defending Stubbs when he's fully capable of doing it himself? Also, whether Micc had voted when you asked the question is irrelevant- you were under the impression that he hadn't voted for him, otherwise you wouldn't have asked him. So I'll ask again, do you think it's an illegitimate position to not be voting somebody you publicly find scummy?

Engaging with you is obviously a waste of time, after further looking into your past 'game' I see you always play this way. I'm willing to admit your fault may be due to newbieness, Seeing as you havent finished a game yet... anyways, Please list who you are reading as scum.

[Thespio]

Here tomorrow, wifi was out most of the day.

Sweet, I'd love to get your reads!

[Thespio]

@JoramvanVugt, You have no opinions on anyone else?

[Thespio]

So following my gut, honestly i think i was wrong earlier, Looking at previous games of HenryCabotLodge, I see he always plays this way. So here are my new reads:

Akuseru:

Spoiler:

Gut tells me he is mafia, he lurks a little but comes out enough to go unquestioned, he doesnt post anything to draw attention to himself, and while this comes across town, its way to cautious for D1 when you are not accused of anything, we have all been getting town reads, but when he was asked for reads he didnt post them and drew attention back onto StubbsKVM.

Gut feeling is Scum... Thoughts??

stoz:

JoramvanVugt:

Spoiler:

Newbie, no reads, null read, lurks alot but i think its because hes a newbie.

Bulbazoor:

Spoiler:

Seems town, i feel veegee was town, its why i didnt vote him.

HenryCabotLodge:

Spoiler:

Bad player but I see him as town after reviewing his playstyle.

StubbsKVM:

Spoiler:

Leaning scum, quick to vote, slow to answer questions.

notscience:

Spoiler:

Inactive and lurking, Idk about notscience though, im not reading the slot as scum.

Micc:

Spoiler:

Pro town, no questions. Once we got him active he has helped us alot.

thoughts?

[Thespio]

I do not agree on the assumption that aku is scum. The only charge we can make based on game play is that they are trying hard, but that is not even a good basis for a fos. I thini I like my vote for now. This slot was very defensive upon my cqlling them out and they even decided to scumread me because I was scumreading them. That only made my read drift downwards to even more scummy because all he has ever done so far is defend himself when any accusation comes out and even townread stubbs, which is a very scummy player. I barely agree with anynof his reads and their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance. And the fact that he even said he scumreads me more than anyone else but never introduces a vote on me is very horrible.

Thats why I said its more gut than anything else.

[Thespio]

Huh?

I was in a bad mood, but after reading the posts you seem productive, even though u started out a little absent.

[Thespio]

This doesn't add up. First you admitted I already gave reasoning, now you're scumreading me for not answering. Please explain.

U answered it, it just took a while, and im not scum reading you, or you would be red, im just cautious of you.

[Thespio]

You never gave me a proper explanation of why you removed your vote on me after I was "obvious scum."

You are either blind or stupid, probably both, in case you didn't catch it.

By focusing on you people were able to lurk, to avoid that, I removed my vote to ask them what they thought. You need to re-read the game, Dont go AFK and then come back acting like you kept up.

Its obvious to me after reading your part match where you also abandoned, that you are just a crap player, now please, please, re read the game. And I have cast doubt on Joram BTW, but you would need to read to see that, right?

If you are this hard headed, im tempted to commit suicide just to leave the game, you are honestly not helping town you are hurting it.

Oh and incase you missed it:

[Thespio]

Please keep slapping your face until you knock yourself out, Thespio. Having your vote on me did not prevent you from questioning other people. You can question other people while having me, the "obvious scum", still be your vote. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. I was in no danger of being lynched. Removing the vote did nothing except show that you had no confidence in it.

Also, you have cast light doubts on almost everyone at some point in this game through your prolific "reads." What you've expressed for JoramvanVugt is not consistent with how you view other people (e.g. aggressive hatred of lurking).

I hope you maintain this dismissive tone, it's amusing. And I'm devastated the game where I had to replace out because of real life didn't impress you, Thespio. Like I said, I only hope I can learn from you moving forward this game!

So what does it tell you if im dismissive to people I read as town and not to someone else? draw the conclusion there for me, lets do this then, I'm going to ignore you, because your not really helping or being productive, you are more reactive then proactive. Now cool your jets, if you suspect our new buddy who voted for you by piggy backing then why arent you voting for him, do you honestly still think people are going to take your OMGUS seriously?

[Thespio]

Have we given up on JoramvanVugt? His only post in three days was to express his displeasure at people pressuring him and saying he has no reads.

No i dont think we should ignore his super long absence, even a new player who is active is eager to participate. It was odd how he jumped on my badwagon without an actual opinion and hasnt formed any new opinions.

[Thespio]

Have we given up on JoramvanVugt? His only post in three days was to express his displeasure at people pressuring him and saying he has no reads.

No i dont think we should ignore his super long absence, even a new player who is active is eager to participate. It was odd how he jumped on my badwagon without an actual opinion and hasnt formed any new opinions.

So where have i jumped on your bandwaggon? seeing as i was the first one to vote up HCL in my first post in the thread.
this is just a weird thing to say wtf

Your only justifications for why you voted him were directly sourced from my read on him, you didnt even bother adding your own thought, plus the fact you just came back and i know you have been online reading and not posting makes you look like scum.

[Thespio]

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge

Im voting for you.
You start the game by random voting a person that says hi but then later in the game you unvote and say a random lynch is stupid even though you are the one that started all of this.
It seems like your opinion changes with every post. first you want a random lynch then you talk about people starting a random bandwaggon even though you were the one to start it. idk you just seem to suspicious to me.
If you were playing in my last game on another forum you would already be dead by now. somebody would have daykilled you already

@Joram, actaully last time i saw you post was like 2 days ago, and you post maybe once every 2 days and its not productive.

[Thespio]

So voting for somebody and using the same reason somebody else used is not allowed? i voted him day 1 in the 4th player made post in this thread i believe saying his assumption that somebody is guilty and voting for that person just because he/she said HI is stupid. I've read almost every post in this thread and im still playing this game
there are people who post less then me and you keep going after me.

your fine to use the same reason, but your random vote, post 4, couldn't have had the reasoning given later. it was random, so...

[Thespio]

@JoramvanVugt

Idk, I see your extended absence and your lack of original reasons for a vote concerning. I think town is better off without you honestly, You have no reads on anyone but the person you locked onto. Just for progression and because you aren't helping town you are harming it, i will vote for you.
VOTE: JoramvanVugt

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: HCL
VOTE: Thespio

There have been multiple people that are semi afk and havent been posting a lot but you keep going on about me.
How am i harming town? How are you helping town? your reads are completely your opinion you can make them so when i say i think HCL is guilty its not good but when you say i think JoramvanVugt is guilty its a legitimate read?

OMGUS vote? doesnt seem like you really thought HCL was scum, or you would be adamant to lynch him like i was, until i read his previous game.

[Thespio]

The last line of JoramvanVugt's seems like a weird thing to say. "wanna get me lynched or something" implies they have some sort of other connection in this game, especially due to the fact that Thespio hadn't placed his vote on him yet. Just stuck out to me as a strange line.

sorry spoiled this for you a little, i voted him b4 u posted, I honestly dont think anyone sees you as scum at this point, except may be Joram.

[Thespio]

No, I saw you voted him before I posted- I meant you hadn't voted him yet when he made that specific post I quoted.

yea that's because i was weighing what your reaction would be to my vote. You got upset last time i changed it.

[Thespio]

Well, you've said a few times now that you think I'm just bad at mafia and I'm not scum so it makes sense. In our last argument I had actually expressed confusion as to why you retained your vote on me if you thought I just stunk. My issue with you taking your vote off of me the first time around was that you declared me to be "obvious scum" and said your reason for unvoting was to go after lurkers, which was bizarre to me because you can still question other people while keeping your vote on your top suspect.

Guess that your conclusion also makes sense... Idk, just felt i was distracting too many people.

[Thespio]

my preference for lynching is currently Joram, Bulbazoor, not science and then StubbsKVM

then vote, day is almost over.

[Thespio]

Lol, just a thought, fferyllt hasnt modkilled anyone, someone should get modkilled so you are alone on the list. :p

[Thespio]

Ill jump on the train, your right he isn't really consolidating us based on what he is accused of, and a lynch D1 is better then a NL VOTE: Stoz, he isnt playing that well, and i think joram should be looked at tomorrow.

[Thespio]

That's L-1.

And joram's above post bugs me.

Told ya...

[Thespio]

That's L-1.

And joram's above post bugs me.

Told ya...

Stoz, any last words? sorry if your town but you played pretty bad so far.

[Thespio]

You attract more flies with honey, Thespio.

what?? in reference to what?

[Thespio]

Because mafia either has a RB/Goon or 2 goons.

RB/goon has a 50% chance of having a cop versus a 25% chance with goon/goon.

It looks like his team is rb/goon and he;s assuming there's a cop.

So

Omgoat, this is genius! If we get scum on him then its likely that we will be dealing with a RB, and if we are we also have a doc or 1 shot BP townie.

[Thespio]

he wasnt hammered, i suggest we deal with joram then VOTE: Joram, off to lunch cya in 15mins.

[Thespio]

I hate swapping my vote this much, So if we are offing stoz for his bad gameplay lets do it, Aku you can hammer. VOTE: Stoz

Also Jorams slip might just be newbieness...

[Thespio]

I hate swapping my vote this much, So if we are offing stoz for his bad gameplay lets do it, Aku you can hammer.

Why are you in such a hurry to hammer? There are 2 days left.

Im not, i just dont like swapping my vote so much, im split between the two of them, and I agree Joram seems to be acting like he is too new to understand anything...

[Thespio]

Oh, Joram would have hammered, that ok then, but remember i initially was pushing for his lynch. your swap made me think that you were joining and hadn't seen my switch. Sorp

[Thespio]

Dang I was hoping you would mod kill him so you couldnt say no mod kills ever

[Thespio]

I'm a special snowflake

You have the oddest expressions.

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: Stoz I wont let hammer fall on stoz, i see his reasoning and understand his whole, I live in a different place to justify my activity, honestly Notscience's vote was unwarrented in terms of actual reasoning. So im pulling my vote until i can look at stoz a bit better.

Joram you look guilty as heck, you have more experience then you let on. you used the excuse:

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game. i dont know a lot about maffia and came here to learn. some help would be amazing instead of omg he is guilty cause he didnt do this little thing like all other players do. I dont know how maffia is being played on this site. i still need to learn all of that. so sorry if i dont do things like you guys want me to..

Which makes me look at you as a flat out liar... first game but you say you did more later... you also speculate on cop, which makes me think you are trying to out the cop, and thus you would know who it is so you can trade. RIght now we are all looking at you so dying and killing cop would be a fair trade in your mind...

[Thespio]

Bulbazoor & Thespio: can each of you restate or quote your case against Stoz?

Mostly based off his disregard for the fact he was being voted, a little gut, but mostly due to his bad playing, though I see him as more nuetral right now and I see Joram as scum, like hardcore scum.

[Thespio]

They lynch me cause they say im maffia and i made it sound like i had no maffia experienced even though im experienced (1 completed game apparently is experience enough)

no, lynch you lied about experience:

Im new to this site but i still understand the game and in my opinion i havent done anything that would make me show up as mafia?

You then talk about how you are playing alternate games but go in depth so it is redacted. (OOC:I loled so hard when i noticed this)

But earlier you stated:

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game.

Honestly you are bad for town, you sat without any posts lurking, while the rest of us posted, and didnt speak until you were called out. Your votes are not your acutal opinion or they would stay with who you thought was scum. you flipped to me when you realised i was voting you, so your vote on HCL was weak at best.

You did ask questions about gameplay and ultimately looked and look like a newbie, Micc answered all Questions BTW. If it haddent been brought up that you had more prior experience then let on i would let this pass but with the lying, the inactivity, and overall hidering the town I would let some of it slide, but at this point you are the most logical vote.

VOTE: JoramvanVugt

Lying is Taboo, dont lie, liars hurt town, liars are scum

[Thespio]

Yes, i did post that... oh you added this:

You see first game on THIS SITE this is my first game on this site, the other 1 game i completed was not on this site

but go ahead lynch me. im kinda done with this site, im playing a newbie game to learn and im only being [Redacted] by players who understand the game and wont even help me learn.

Micc has already said your play style is different. Sorry dude but your super super fishy and abrupt inability to post all game up until we pressure you tells me you had the ability to post and you weren't.

[Thespio]

I still think he is town. Do not judge him because of other sites.... judge him as a newbie in his first newbie game.

Im not judging him of the other site, im judging him because he presented this as though he had no experience and in truth he does.

[Thespio]

All roles are posted on page 1

[Thespio]

Newbie Setup

Matrix6 (as designed by Cogito Ergo Sum):

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates either one row or one column. The remaining six roles will be filled in by mafia goons and vanilla townies appropriately, to create a 2-mafia and 7-town setup. For example Row 1 (1 jailkeeper, 1 vanilla townie, 1 mafia goon) would add an additional 5 vanilla townies and 1 mafia goon, for a total setup of 1 jailkeeper, 6 vanilla townies, and 2 mafia goons.

*Roleblocker will take precedence over jailkeeper when resolving night actions should that apply.

Spoiler: Sample Role PMs

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!


You are a

Vanilla Townie

.


You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Jailkeeper

Welcome!


You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.


You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Cop

Welcome!


You are a

Town Cop

.


You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Town

or

Mafia

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Doctor

Welcome!


You are a

Town Doctor

.


You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

1-shot Bulletproof Townie

Welcome!


You are a

1-shot Bulletproof Townie.

You will survive 1 kill attempt during the game. This does not include lynches.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Tracker

Welcome!


You are a

Town Tracker

.


You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player they targeted with their action, if any.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!


You are a

Mafia Goon

.


Your partner is PLAYER, who is a

Mafia Goon/Roleblocker

.


You share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional private thread, located here, which you may talk in during pregame and night phases.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Mafia Roleblocker

Welcome!


You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.


Your partner is PLAYER, who is a

Mafia Goon

.


You may target one player per night. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.


You share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional private thread, located here, which you may talk in during pregame and night phases.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

r

The game thread is here.

Joram you cant trick us by posting a claimed PM, they are all public

[Thespio]

Let's lynch stoz

Joram is town.

Whats your case against Joram, because you pushing it so hard kinda makes u look like scum. Especially since you dont have a reason behind your vote.

[Thespio]

Okay? I don't particularly care.

I do care that a scumread is being passed by for a townreads.

Post why you are voting. it takes like 5 minutes and no one will question your vote, i wont support a stoz lynch, you gave no reasons.

[Thespio]

@Micc I dont support the reasons given to lynch Stoz, do you? would you support a notscience vote? She is voting without reasons, doesnt answer questions, plus she lurks for extended periods of time.

[Thespio]

Im sorry that i gave you the impression that this was my very very first game i meant my very first game on this site.

about my role, im a vanilla townie, go ahead lynch me but you will lose a townie

So am i allowed to copy paste my role pm here? cause if thats what i takes to survive, i probably wont be a big maffia target anyways

UNVOTE: Joram Joram these posts make me see you as innocent:

Im sorry that i gave you the impression that this was my very very first game i meant my very first game on this site.

about my role, im a vanilla townie, go ahead lynch me but you will lose a townie

Im sorry that i gave you the impression that this was my very very first game i meant my very first game on this site.

about my role, im a vanilla townie, go ahead lynch me but you will lose a townie

So am i allowed to copy paste my role pm here? cause if thats what i takes to survive, i probably wont be a big maffia target anyways

Would you support a notscience lynch?

[Thespio]

Notscience you post so few reads and at the same time you are tring to brute force a lynch. You have extensive periods of time where you are online yet not posting. You tried to rush a lynch justifying your random vote. Your response to me asking you for reasons is even more concerning is this reaction to me asking for a response:

Okay? I don't particularly care.

I do care that a scumread is being passed by for a townreads.

I will be voting because of your overall scummy behavior VOTE: notscience


PEDIT: Bulba i dont expect a move, but you dont have enough people to get a lynch on him.

[Thespio]

Okay, not sure why, but I feel like this game is lead by this unspoken rule that Mafia must be "bad players", particularly based on activity. It shouldn't. You guys should be looking for slips, ie: someone posting to "fake" activity and look like they're scum hunting so others might acknowledge their behaviour and see them more as town. You guys should be looking at people that make you feel uneasy (ie: in my case that's Joram) etc...

I dont think you understand what lurking is:

Lurking

is a profoundly defensive strategy. In exchange for not providing any information to the Town, lurkers render themselves very difficult to lynch due to the lack of information needed to build a convincing reason to lynch them (beyond the obvious excuse "they're lurking"). These are both negative traits as far as the Town is concerned; in addition to being unhelpful for finding others' alignments, they're unhelpful for displaying their own. Thus, lurking is a preferable strategy for scum if they are allowed to get away with it, as they provide no help to the Town and can simply wait as the active players self-destruct on each other.

He had Wifi, he told us so, then he stopped posting and was the same as always. He was lurking, he was online @ the time and not posting.

[Thespio]

Thespio, read the next paragraph in that same wiki.

ok but hes active lurking, as well, when he is posting its not benifical and he just BS, things to say so he doesnt get prodded.

Examples of active lurking include posts made only of taunts, excuses for not posting, incoherent gibberish that will lead people to suspect that you do not have the Internet savvy to play Mafia, general bland agreement with whatever is going on, and so forth. For the less couth readers, this is frequently called "bullshitting" in MeatWorld.
This tactic is employed by scum who wish to appear more active than they actually are; either for the scum who has no comment on the current matter but does not want to seem like they are lurking, or for the lurker who wants to paint themselves as slightly better than some other lurker.

[Thespio]

and actually that applies to joram as well...

[Thespio]

Stubbs did you completely missed the posts of me apologizing and role claiming?

you role claimed?? and apologetic mafia still kill...

[Thespio]

VOTE: Joran sry dude, you are either a horrible, horrible town, or liar, and unfortunately i know you are a liar.

[Thespio]

@mod can we get a vote count?? pls :3

[Thespio]

Joram can not say for one ton investigate him if he is scum. I do not think newbiemplayers use that strong of ate.

Oh my gosh you are so scummy with this comment, lets follow this logic:

Joram gets picked out as a liar and people see him as falsely displaying noobieness to make it through the rounds.

Joram reasons he will get lynched tomorrow if he can get a Stoz lynch off, Thus he states "Invest me!" This means the town invest will have to out himself D2 to catch Joram, 1 out of 2 power roles will die tomorrow.

You are in full support of his claim "Invest Me!" which makes me see you as easy scum who wants his buddy to live 1 more day so you can out a cop. TC if you exist dont investigate him tomorrow, the outcome will be your death. instead investigate Bulba, we lynch Joram today because of his scummy deception, and if Bulba returns as scum we lynch him tomorrow.

[Thespio]

My god we are screwed in voting, scum right now for me go this way:

Bulba

Joram

Not

science

Micc
Aku
HCL

[Thespio]

If there is a cop, investigate bulba, do not reveal if he is scum tomorrow though!!! we hang joram, if joram is scum and you figured out that bulba is also scum we hang bulba D3. This is my logic:

1) Joram knows he will die
2) Joram decides he will out the cop, the cop can invest him all he wants but has to come out and say that he is the cop in order for us to know for sure.
3) mafia now knows who the cop is
4) mafia kills cop

Notice bulba wont let him get killed because he hopes the cop will out himself, he is continually saying "what scum asks to be investigated or post his pm", Well joram is a sleeze, he lead us to believe he was new but has much more experience then let on to. he is active lurking, bulba if you dont move your vote then we lynch you after him because you will be proven skum.

[Thespio]

Move yourself to the top of the list and i agree with it

Joram quite, adults who dont deceive are talking here. You will be hung, you decieved us, then tried to play the newb card, then accused us of not helping you when micc went out of his way to do so.

[Thespio]

Ok, its up to micc, hcl, or notscience then.

If there is a cop and a lynch occurs today, you investigate Bulba, you may then out him if Joram is scum.

If there is a cop and no lynch occurs, you investigate bulba, we lynch joram tomorrow, after his affiliation is released you may out bulba.

[Thespio]

What we know, Joram has asked to be investigated, This means that there may be a RB mafia, if there is then that means there is probably a cop as well. If he is scum then there is most likely a cop.

2nd - Bulba, your reasoning for defending him was soo off, basically there is none... So maybe you and notscience should tell us why you are voting...

[Thespio]

Bulba will be tomorrows lynch if cop outs him and we get joram today, NONE of you have shown why our cases against him are wrong, you have only made yourself look like crappy players, Lets do this then, Bulba why stoz, without quotes, why do you believe he is scum??

notscience without copying bulba post why you think he is scum.

now go, if you cant do it then one of you is scum.

[Thespio]

And right now im concerned that notscience and bulba are scum, If joram is a newbie and just asked for an invest then there may not be a cop, but if notscience and bulba are scum then they could be trying to get the cop to reveal himself.

Cop should do whatever the fuck they want to do.

This lynch is stupid.

And the fact notscience pointed out that there is a cop if joram is scum leads me to believe there is a RB mafia as well, and Notscience and BUlba would be my most likely suspects if joram dies.

[Thespio]

Bulba & Notscience, answer pls.

[Thespio]

I think we need to look at notsciences behavior, Joram will die today, but I dont like how he suggested there might be a cop based off of jorams post, then when i told the cop not to reveal themselves that he came out and said the cop should do whatever they want, implying he wants the cop to reveal.

At the end of yesterday i was pretty sure that joram was pulling a "Investigate me" so that a newbie cop would tell everyone that he was guilty, In doing so the cop would be killed by mafia that night. Notscience pushed really hard for stoz's lynch, this makes me think that he was supporting a NL or a Sotz lynch BUT if joram died the mafia would lose this opportunity to catch the cop.

At first i suspected Bulba BUT bulba swapped to joram, then notscience refused.

Ultimately we lynched stoz for little to no reason on the backs of notscience and bulba.

This is my Lynch list;
Joram>notsciecne>Bulba>Aku>Micc/Hcl

[Thespio]

VOTE: Joram

[Thespio]

Ya forgot Stubbs.

Its probably because he's spent the whole game blending in, being forgettable, and not doing anything.

True, is it possible joram is innocent but that Notscience was using him to catch the cop? I noticed that notscience was very null when you accused stubbs

[Thespio]

VOTE: Notscience

[Thespio]

You guys realize that there is only 2 setups out of 6 that have a cop right?

I find all this talk about outing cops unsettling. Basing scum reads off that type of stuff feels more like a conspiracy theory than scumhunting.

I understand that, BUT notscience was the one who pointed it out, if she is scum and there is a RB scum role then it means they suspect there is a Cop and Doctor, the Doc would explain why there are no deaths, the fact Notscience pointed out there might be a cop and that he wanted the cop to out himself is what concerns me.

[Thespio]

I count 3 setups (ie: doctor, jailkeeper, or bulletproof) - assuming one mafia MUST submit a kill every night.

Thespio, you're all over the place @_@

should i just tunnel one person and lych a townie like stoz, who we had no reason to lynch but bulba and notscience tunneled so you played along?

First you accuse Joram for speculating a cop (btw, out of everyone in this game, you're the most fixated on the cop, thespio.), then bulba for trying to out the cop, then bubla and notscience working together to out the cop, and now just notscience because they first pointed out the cop.

Actually notscience was the one to speculate such, however if joram is just bad at this its possible he didnt know that there was a possiblity that there may not be a cop. I accused bulba of acting suspicious by supporting the Stoz lynch but as i said his move of his vote while notscience wouldnt tells me all i need to know.

Did you notice that notscience came out and was saying "I will vote myself, we just need a lynch" but wouldnt move her vote to joram when he was hammerable? If notscience is scum and suspect that there be a cop would need joram alive so a cop could confirm town, this leads into my theory on her trying to get the cop to reveal.

Make up your mind please.

Better that I adapt with the game and constantly evaluate people then ignore everyone, right?

[Thespio]

I think espio is taking this too far with the cop. There may or may not be one as far as I know.

Thats the point, the only one who will have any clue about the cop, is the mafia, If joram is innocent then why was science the one who pointed out there may be a cop? and why was he adamant that joram live? and that the cop should out himself if he exists? this is a huge scum tell.

[Thespio]

I count 3 setups (ie: doctor, jailkeeper, or bulletproof) - assuming one mafia MUST submit a kill every night.

They dont have to kill, missed this when i posted last.

[Thespio]

Did you notice that notscience came out and was saying "I will vote myself, we just need a lynch" but wouldnt move her vote to joram when he was hammerable?

This is more interesting to me than the cop stuff tbh. I got to look back but i feel like you're misrepresenting either the timeline or what people actually said in regards to cops.

Idk, thats the way i interpreted it, Overall though I think he looks super suspicious, He also wont justify his reasons for voting.

[Thespio]

what does the quote in the pic above even mean?

[Thespio]

@Akuseru, so what do you think about Joram?

[Thespio]

@Akuseru, so what do you think about Joram?

Null.

Observations: Talkative when he's on the chopping block and disappears again once the coast is clear.

What do you think about his deception?

[Thespio]

I didnt know there were different setups i thought newbie games had 1 setup and it always involved a cop. Sorry my bad

I figured, which is why i was suspicious that Notscience pointed out you basically confirmed there was a cop, yet didnt vote you once you asked for an investigation. I figured this was because he wanted the cop to reveal himself.

[Thespio]

I actually think we may be playing a Jailkeep/RB/1 Shot, justa gut feeling...

[Thespio]

I just am, does it matter, probs isnt right.

Micc, do you think Notscience is suspicious? if so, why havent u voted him?

[Thespio]

Notscience such a fake, you posted 1 minute apart, lol

I dont even buy it for a minute that you are town because you said so when you thought you were hammered.

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: Notscience

[Thespio]

I cant let you get to close or today will be record breakingly short

[Thespio]

Notscience reads pls.

[Thespio]

Those arent reads... is aku the scum and i or Hcl and bulba?

[Thespio]

VOTE: Notscience If you wont justify anything, and are rude when on the chopping block then idk why i wasted my time attempting to get more out of you and let you proove yourself town.

[Thespio]

This is what I see, you are cocky, I ask about your reads (not your lyching preferences), and when i ask about justifying a random list of names you tell me "You could try reading my posts. Context clues are great." Im trying to better understand you but instead of working with me to save your life, you are going to fight me on it? why? it seems counter productive to your cause. Oh and btw this^ is the first justification you have given for doing something basically all game.

[Thespio]

Notscience reads pls.

Those arent reads... is aku the scum and i or Hcl and bulba?

Actually, i said:

Notscience reads pls.

You gave me an unordered list with no indication as to what was good or bad so i stated:

Those arent reads... is aku the scum and i or Hcl and bulba?

and you wouldnt explain what was what. There is nothing else to it.

[Thespio]

Dude, those arent justified reads though, it looked like you gave a lynch preference. Someone hammer, and make sure you explain why.

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: notscience Im so split between bulba and notscience...

[Thespio]

Prod Request: Stubbs

[Thespio]

ty

[Thespio]

@Joram, are you saying you think NS is active lurking? I kinda disagree, he seems to post more then you give him credit for.

@micc, what do you think about NS posting after he claimed he thought he was hammered. And what do u think bout bulba?

[Thespio]

If stubbs ends up afk we need to look at his few posts again, i noticed he might be abandoning games seeing as he did so to another he was in recently. If he hasnt abandoned and doesnt post soon i will be up for lynching him

[Thespio]

I agree bulba needs to explain himself.

and no im not saying that him replacing out means we should or shouldnt look at him, he may be abandoning this game though, so we should wait the 24 hrs for the outcome of the prod before jumping on him. if he isnt being replaced then it means he is lurking and ill vote him. If he is being replaced i will wait and further read the new Stubbs.

[Thespio]

VOTE: Bulba Bulba please explain your vote on notscience, please also give reads.

PEDIT:

Spoiler:

He basically fluffed about mechanics until I called him out and he started getting defensive and more into the game. That was overall what shaped my read on him.

So you killed someone because they didnt want to die and defended themselves?

[Thespio]

No. I thought that the overall fluff until I called him out was weird.

But you just said:

He basically fluffed about mechanics until I called him out and he started getting defensive and more into the game. That was overall what shaped my read on him.

If it wasnt about him being defensive and it was more about fluff then why not just say "he was all fluff"?

[Thespio]

Bulba reads, and explanation for NS, pls.

[Thespio]

I appreciate the reads but... You didnt give a notscience read, why are you voting him?

[Thespio]

Ah, i see it was in the stubbs read. Justify yourself please. Go through your actions and list the motives as town then as scum, I will do the same:

Attacked HCL:
Scum - wanted a mislynch
Town - Thought HCL was suspicious and didnt read Veegee as scum.
Most Likely - Town: a veegee lynch could have been obtained if he piled on, but instead he went else where.

Began looking at everyone else:
Scum - trying to shift attention off self
Town - Wanted to find scum
Most Likely - Town: looks like Scum Hunting

Tried to Lynch Joram:
Scum - Wanted a mislynch on easy target because he had decieved he would go down easy enough
Town - Thought his deception was super suspicious and scum read his activities and thus justified lynching him
Most Likely - Either/or

Voted for Notscience:
Scum - N/A
Town - Not was the only one adamant that Stoz should be lynched.
Most Likely: town - There was no support when he jumped on not's wagon before stoz's lynch

Voted for Bulba:
Scum - wants a mislynch that will be harder to produce then if he just piled on not.
Town - sees bulba as suspicious because he is slow to reveal information and has weak reads.
Most Likely: Town - Not would be easy lynch but he is pushing bulba instead.

your turn.

[Thespio]

Bulba?

[Thespio]

Thats fine, my format is gods format, one sec im reading it

[Thespio]

Attacked stoz:
Scum - wanted a mislynch
Town - Sees stoz as a suspicious slot.
Most Likely - Town: If I saw stoz as supicious, why would I want mislynch if I thought he was scum?

Voted stoz
Scum- Pressed mislynch
Town- Voted for a scumread
Most Likely- Town- Stoz was not an easy lynch to push if I was scum. If I was scum, it would put me in a dangerous position.

Alright so here i would have said most likely scum not town, reason: Stubbs was not in hot water when the Stoz wagon started, and Stoz immidately was put in hot water by notscience and you, this was a pretty easy lynch seeing as you refused to remove your vote. Infact you kept saying you wouldnt but then did.

Scumread stubbs:
Scum- wants to lynch an easy target
Town - Thinks that the slot is not being productive.
Most Likely - Town- No one is supporting a stubbs wagon zx much as a not wagon.

I think this is more likely null/scum reason being, Micc was a strong advocate against stubbs. you would have had support from HCL and myself as well, this is easy town credit.

Voted for Notscience:
Scum - Wants to push not for town cred after yesterday. Also could be trying to join the easy wagon if not is town.
Town - Not was the scummiest besides stoz yesterday, so town me voted him.
Most Likely: town - Not pushing not wagon enough for scum.

I feel this is kinda hurting you as well, you should be honest in what is most likely, you think that you looking at him bad is less likely then a strategy to gain town cred? I like that you put this here because it looks like that is what is happening.

PEDIT:
@micc there was a reason for the self analysis

[Thespio]

if you were me, you would think that this:
Not was the scummiest besides stoz yesterday, so you voted him.

was more likely then:
Wants to push not for town cred after yesterday. Also could be trying to join the easy wagon if not is town.

[Thespio]

How about instead of analyzing ourselves like this we start analyzing our scum reads like this.

Bulba pls do NS. Thanks.

Predit: lol

he did NS, its hidden in with the Stoz explanation.

[Thespio]

@HCL I love reading your posts because they may be spread out, but they are in depth.

[Thespio]

Thespio, I'm just thrilled that you don't think I'm a bad mafia player anymore! May I ask what's changed?

Just getting used to your play style. So what are your thoughts on bulba.

[Thespio]

? not .

[Thespio]

I'm not really sure why we let this wagon on me dissolve.

Eh.

Well dont get us wrong, we are debating it, but bulba has drawn our attention.

[Thespio]

How?

you drew mine when you voted and didnt give a reason with the vote, then i started thinking, Bulba... he kept saying "Im not changing my vote!" but changed it... What was his reason for voting stoz... Stoz was too much fluff... odd reason to insist even though you should lynch a liar... Then I figured, "Wonder if i can convince him to read himself..." Once you did It made you look more suspicious, not because you did, but because of how you did...

[Thespio]

I admit it can seem that the motivations for what I did are scum motivations.

So what should we do? If you were me, and I were you what would you do seeing that my motivations seem scumlike?

[Thespio]

I would look more into it, or lynch it.

Very good, that is why im questioning you. Whats your impression on micc?

[Thespio]

He made a good point about your switch in reads suddenly. I am thinking of him as townlean so far because he is making some good points and I see no scum motivation behind the vote on me.

I did swap on him, i was in a bad mood :/ i feel bad i snapped at him. What about Aku?

[Thespio]

My current opinions on everyone.

of course... my b

[Thespio]

@Micc. Does Stubbs and bulba scum team seem likely?

[Thespio]

@ bulba, so your lynch order would be:
Stubbs>not>me
??
or
Not> Stubbs>me
or
me> not> Stubbs
or ... what?

[Thespio]

Blueblood how new ru?

[Thespio]

Nvm, ive read a few games with u in it... one of which you were mafia and it was a perfect town game... i think

[Thespio]

Aku, anything to say??

[Thespio]

Im just waiting for the end of the summary...

[Thespio]

This is kinda like an extended loading screen...

[Thespio]

@joram, didnt even see those posts lol, you were pretty under duress, looks more town in my book.

[Thespio]

im kinda getting bored, it almost feels like a critique of how we play and not a summary...

[Thespio]

Too true! plus its a newbie game so we can learn how to play a little better.

[Thespio]

well we didnt say that,i think HCL scum read you because of OMGUS, and I scum read you because you came across as saying you hadnt ever played before, but you had.

[Thespio]

He meant on this site. Marathon games do not count

Yes, i came to understand that. ITs why im iffy about him and not solid scum. I was hoping he would give his reads on Stubbs, because if he can justify stubbs then im fine with him...

[Thespio]

@bulba, quote him saying he was the only one pls

[Thespio]

Thespio and Joram, does your boredom with our nww replacement's summary/analysis have anything to do with the fact that he's expressed suspicion of both of you? It looks like an attempt to discredit his opinions.

I also like having fresh eyes on the game and getting a detailed overview like this.

Nah, Hes justifying it so im fine, its more that we usually make more progress each day, and today we haven't.

[Thespio]

@ Blue, please explain and justify Stubbs actions now pls, He is your counterpart, and we all suspected him. But if you cant even justify it, then we have an issue...

[Thespio]

I'm confused that you're scum reading Stubbs for sheeping the general majority and null reading Thespio when Thespio has spent the entire game doing just that.

Also, Ive not been sheeping at all, Im the one who began on HCL, alone, then I started on Joram, and Flipped between Stoz and Joram, the flipping i can understand as looking like im sheeping but the rest of the game I havent so... Also, im the one who started showing suspicion in bulba and notscience for their lynch on stoz before stoz had been lynched.

PEDIT:@HCL I want him to look over and give his read on his counterparts actions, because we cant just excuse him because he didnt do it, its still part of his character.

[Thespio]

I'm not talking for Stubbs nor will I give my thoughts on his actions.

What do you expect to achieve from that?

You can scum read us, I was hoping you would be able to explain why Stubbs actions were town, I feel like you may be avoiding it though because they arent.

Your confirmation that your character is Town would be nice.

[Thespio]

VOTE: NS

If im your top scum read why arent you voting me? And why did you vote him up? You said you knew he was doing something but never said what...

PEDIT: No. you looked us all over, stubbs has very few posts, why wont you read it over and do what you did with us?

[Thespio]

So you wont support your vote with what actually makes you think he is scum... and you also wont look over your slot and let us know what you would read it as... Explain to us why your town? anyone else have any thoughts? hcl?

[Thespio]

I don't particularly care what order but my strongest scum read is Thespio.

But you didnt vote me, you have some info on what you in pertinence to notscience but wont say, and wont tell us what you read stubbs to be, so either stubbs is so bad that you know you will have to call yourself scum or your lazy. But the later is unlikely seeing as you just annotated the entire game...

[Thespio]

I read your catch up, but it centered arround me and bulba in the end, and you strayed off ns once you said:

I have a theory behind what NS is doing but it relies on associatives and they're weak before the relevant flips have been made so I'll hold onto it for now.

If you wont explain it then i dont see a whole lot of support past this point in your review.

[Thespio]

I'm not explaining why I'm town. That's for other people to decide, not for me to tell.

Ok well we all scum read your slot... But we didnt get a whole lot of analysis on micc's case or why stubbs was town in his actions, this concerns me. Because as I said before, if you cant justify it as town how can we?

[Thespio]

@HCL I guess i see why it wont help a ton, but he wont even try to be biased, he reads me as scum, which is fine, but read stubbs, it just seems a little odd.

@HCL hmm, now that I look @ your posts you have been against his lynch, mostly by stating you dont agree with micc's view... My bad then, i know Bulba, NS, Myself, and Micc all have been watching his slot though.

[Thespio]

the second @ is PEDIT

[Thespio]

So you wont support your vote with what actually makes you think he is scum... and you also wont look over your slot and let us know what you would read it as... Explain to us why your town? anyone else have any thoughts? hcl?

I'm not sure what having BBT analyze his own slot will accomplish. He's going to portray it as townie no matter what. Also, his speculation on Stubbs isn't anymore useful than ours- it's not like he has some special insight into Stubbs' style of play. Stubbs infrequent posting was not good, but I think there are a lot more pressing things facing the town right now. If anything, this is a distraction. Stubbs' previous play will not figure much into how I look at BBT moving forward.

Also what does it matter, if he is going to portray stubbs as town why not just do it? its kinda odd how you have always been null/against voting this slot...

Also the lack of activity isnt what makes me off about it, i was more concerned by his reactions to accusations. But ultimately it doesnt hurt to ask someone to read their slot and give reasons for actions if they were town or scum, as i did with bulba.

PEDIT: @ Joram, i did find it odd that he accused the both of us, it kinda seems like he didnt want us questioning Blue's reads...

[Thespio]

Hey Thespio, you seemed intent on voting NS earlier.

You should absolutely hammer him now.

I dont have a reason to, i think this is an opportunistic lynch, Joram you should remove your vote so he cant be quick hammered.

[Thespio]

@HCL, i also said that i appreciated the reads, but jumping on us for wanting more discussion is silly.

If he analyzes Stubbs he's going to spin everything as town. Even if he admits something's scummy i can easily be explained away by just saying Stubbs wasn't a great player. The likelihood of Stubbs just being a lackluster townie is the same as him being scum. An analysis from BBT won't change that.

I still find it quite odd that you dont think he should atleast try to explain it. What does forgetting his counterpart do for us?

PEDIT: its odd you come it, drop how im your biggest suspect and then dont vote me but try to appeal to me for a quick lynch.

NS didnt change his vote because Joram looked town to him, i did the same thing with Stoz. I didnt support his lynch in the end because i didnt see him as scum.

This is opportunistic for you, you think i shift based off of opinion, but its more based off of who i feel portrays scum. And I think you are.

PEDIT; PEDIT: Post 99 was early in the game, and i was referring to votes that aren't justified.

I wont support a NS, lynch unless he gives me a reason, or you give me a read on Stubbs and I agree with the methodology.
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Thespio]

@Joram, if someone is willing to look over themselves and tell me why they feel it was a good/bad thing to do then I will be more likely to understand their thought process but im not getting that from him which again, makes him look like he cant spin it as town, or is lazy, but we know he isnt lazy, so....

[Thespio]

i have already roleclaimed

Vanilla, right?

[Thespio]

If HCL was scum im like 90% sure his scum buddy would be stubbs/blue, hcl really was hands off with Stubbs.

[Thespio]

Can you explain why you think I'm scum?

Because of this:

Spoiler:

I wonder why I'm trying to goad you (one of my scum reads) to hammer NS (another one of my scum reads)...I wonder why I might do that...

I mean, you were happy go lucky early in the Day, voting, unvoting, voting, unvoting. I'm simply asking that you place another vote on NS. I don't know why you're speaking for NS either...

and this:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I don't care when the post was. You said vote hopping and quick changes in views was scummy and yet here you are; doing those very actions all over the thread.

How strange...[/quote]

and this:

Spoiler:

Hey Thespio, you seemed intent on voting NS earlier.

You should absolutely hammer him now.

Overall you have been pretty scummy since i started asking you about why you are voting and what you think of your own slot...

[Thespio]

Oh, those posts came AFTER you voted me though and therefore cannot be used as your reasoning because they didn't exist at the time.

Your still feeding it... Like i said, your overall actions seem scummy... Voting without reason, Telling us you know something about NS but not wanting to tell us just blindly support you... Refusing to even look at your counterparts posts...

[Thespio]

You clearly haven't read my catch up otherwise you wouldn't be saying this. I'm guessing you lost interest in my catch up once you saw I was scum reading you and now you're going to try and get rid of somebody who you perceive as a threat. I have noted you have no responded to a single accusation I made against you.

OK then, show me where in your catch up you showed support for a lynch? because like i said:

I read your catch up, but it centered arround me and bulba in the end, and you strayed off ns once you said:

In post 665, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I have a theory behind what NS is doing but it relies on associatives and they're weak before the relevant flips have been made so I'll

hold onto it for now.

at this point your blind push supports my belief that you are scum. You cannot bully me into voting, my vote is set for the day, I wont be changing it.


@Aku & micc, please look over Blue and tell me what you think.

[Thespio]

It has been explained that looking at my predecessor achieves nothing. You clearly cannot see this.

I dont think you can even swing his posts as town. Thus your slot is scum.

[Thespio]

Thespio, I don't need to convince you that your buddy is scum.

I just need town to see it.

And you will do that by bullying me into voting? refusing to look over and show how anything stubbs has said represents town, and by voting notscience without supporting your vote? good luck, im pretty sure anyone with a brain will do this:

1) Declared Thespio to be his biggest scum read
2) Didnt vote for him because no one else is
3) Voted the most popular wagon without support beyond "Wow your dumb, you must not have read my recap" when in truth your recap doesnt explain why you think he is scum past post 100, and we are in the 600+ and when questioned about why you thought he was guilty you claimed to know he was up to something but wouldn't state what...
4) Began bullying another person into making a hasty hammer that doesn't make sense...
5) when questioned about looking at their counterpart to explain what town motivation/scum motivation was behind it, simply brushed it off and said "It wont matter".

[Thespio]

Why are you rushing the day, we have 11 days left... And once again, proof by assertion, you haven't told us what in your summary justifies your vote.

[Thespio]

No its because you dont have any justification, and you are rushing the day because you dont want us to get better reads on you...

And im refraining because he is town and you are scum. BAM, why arent you voting me, you claimed i was the biggest scum read for you.

[Thespio]

I mean, you don't answer any of my questions and you didn't respond to a single accusation in my catch up. Why is that?

gosh, you are infuriating, what question have i not answered?

Where did you justify your vote?

Why are you in a rush to end the day, if we know NS is scum then why not get more content from everyone then end the day?

Fail to answer/provide details to support your answer in anyway and i will go oggline and leave my vote on you until micc /aku gets on and posts.


@Joram, your off base here, he is trying to appeal to you because he thinks he can manipulate you, look at what he has posted and his support for NS lynch.

[Thespio]

Wow i butchered that last post:

gosh, you are infuriating, what question have i not answered?

Where did you justify your vote?

Why are you in a rush to end the day, if we know NS is scum then why not get more content from everyone then end the day?

Fail to answer/provide details to support your answer in any way and i will go offline and leave my vote on you until micc /aku gets on and posts.

[Thespio]

Alright Im going offline, I asked you for support and you again asserted you had done stuff. Unfortunately assertions dont support your arguments.

I will answer this though:

Can you quote where I am appealing to Joram please?

To appeal you dont need to say "Hey do this i am appealing to you", its very clear that Joram has stated he thought NS and I were scum, mostly through OMGUS, but it doesnt matter, because you came out and began focusing me once you hit the point in your reads where I turned on Joram. This shows you read that he thought I was suspicious, and instead of continuing on as normal you changed your reads to fit your purpose. You then assert that NS is scum without provocation, and that I am to because I didnt support Stoz's lynch? and was borderline about to but decided against it. You are appealing by trying to show the same oppinion, because at this point we arent in lylo, scum cant vote someone up with the help of one other, however if you got joram to relate to you then you could get him to be your third vote. Essentially allowing for instant lynching later on. IDK if HCL is scum, and i doubt it, but im 99% sure you are. You wont defend your counterpart, you wont even try, you are trying to bully my vote, and I wont do it, so ttyl when someone else who isnt you is on posting

[Thespio]

How do you know that thespio? First you were sure he was scum, then you we're conflicted between him and bulba, and now he's definitely town? Smh
I really hope you're not scum. I keep excusing you because I keep thinking "It's just thespio being thespio". You're consistent with your inconsistency (votes, reads, opinions etc), if that makes any sense. You're everything I'd imagine scum would try to avoid being.

Ultimately, I am playing in several other games on other sites, none of which i will link, purely because i keep my internet identities separate,although this name will link to the other if you dig back. While playing in the other games I have begun to realise what I need to look for and thus my reads fluctuate a bit. I believe he is town simply because there is nothing to contradict, and i feel he has been pro town to a point.He explained that he was looking for a lynch in the end and offered himself up When time ran short because he simply wanted a lynch to increase odds.

Blue on the other hand will not justify himself and when questioned refers to something that i dont see even exists, and when questioned further shuts down all convo and simply says "you must not have read my recap". All I want from him is justification and ultimately him to tell us what he read Stubbs actions as, at this point it is to late though. If he had said "Stubbs was scummy" I would have thought he was pro town, However he wont even try. Bulba Im still eh, on, I think its odd blue brought him up as likely scum, And NS, but is only pushing NS. ITs literally ad populum. He is voting where the bandwagon is, and were it will likely go. But he hasnt made any push towards bulba...

[Thespio]

Why thespio?

He would have been admitting that there was fault in the play style and if he recognized it then it wouldnt look like he was shying away from it.

[Thespio]

Why does not justifying myself make me scum? (I have justified everything I have said but I'm humoring you). I have just finished catching up on a 30 page game and you wanted me to go back and reread all of my posts when they were right there for you to read. If you can't be bothered to look, why should I? I don't need to convince you to vote NS, I don't think you're the bussing type. I need the rest of town to understand what I'm saying.

Because its not there, thats why im asking you to show me where it is. Because at this point it is not even a real thing, you just assert its existence.

Why is it odd I brought Bulba up as scum? Are you town reading him? If so, why? I'm pushing NS because I think he is scum and he has the biggest wagon out of all of my scum reads. Do you have a problem with this?

No, I read him as scum as well, its odd you accused him but you have left him out at the same time. Push NS all you want but if you read bulba too then you need to explain why NS is worse then Bulba.


Your vote seems to fall into the same category as what you accuse me of as well, you are sheeping, you have no support that you can show (Yes i know you have a recap but its not in there). On top of that you are jumping on a wagon literally because you see it as a popular wagon, that is your support for ending the day.

[Thespio]

What do you think about Thespio refusing to respond to any of my accusations towards him during my catch up?

1. He hasn't read the entire thing (he's been asking you to comment on your slot before you even finished your catch up and has been fixated on it since - he probably won't move on until you've answered to his satisfaction).
2. Some of those accusations don't explicitly mention thespio, and I doubt he clicked the links, so he most likely skipped over them. thespio only looks and focuses on anything he could use for his cases and for the most part ignores the rest (ahhhh so scummy...b-but I still think he's town @_@).



@thespio, can you respond to all of the comments, questions, and accusations surrounding you from bbt's catch up, please?

I will start after mah lunch, im laptop shopping right now. When im done eating ill start, plan on seeing it by tonight.

[Thespio]

heads up my laptop was... well destroyed, so i ordered one, it has 1 week to 2 weeks in transit. I will post by monday but typing on my phone sucks

[Thespio]

After Reading over this catch-up i sincerely believe that BBT is scum.

Spoiler:

86 - This is a sheep of Thespio's argument from Joram.

In post 88, HenryCabotLodge wrote:
I found it interesting how JoramanVugt basically aped all of Thespio's arguments against me (with the edifying addition of "idk you just seem to suspicious to me"). Could be a possible connection there.

This. Though I disagree there is a connection, I would say it's highly unlikely both scum approach the game in this way. Much more likely that it's one scum/one town or both town. Thinking it's Thespio town and Joram scum right now.

In post 99, Thespio wrote:
3: this is an indicator, if someone is constantly swapping views then they are hurting town, and look scummy to me.

Disagree. Scum are much less likely to consistently swap views/change opinions - it draws too much attention on themselves. Scum try to stay consistent and say and do the right things to avoid unwanted attention.

At the end of this BBT states that swapping views is a towntell for him, however he drills me for it. It seems inconsistent, and the drilling starts here:

Spoiler:

370 - Again, Thespio goes with the flow. Joram is coming under pressure and there's Thespio with another vote. This is becoming a common theme and I think it's likely coming from scum.

In post 389, JoramvanVugt wrote:
I honestly think both Thespio and notscience are scum

I agree with this.

It looks like BBT is trying to appeal to joram even though he was scum reading him earlier on.

Spoiler:

More of the 'following game thread from Thespio. This post comes not long after Aku votes Bulba.

The jumping on/off the NS wagon from Thespio is suspicious as fuck. I'm not sure what it means yet though, I just know it doesn't look right.

Theres no link to this, is it bad that im trying not to tunnel? Should I ignore people to tunnel one person? You just said earlier this was scummy, but you dont think so anymore?

631 - This post feels town. Scum don't admit that their actions can be perceived as having scummy motivations.

I agree, this is why i asked him to read himself, You on the other hand wont...

673 - Thespio, are you getting bored because you realize I am scum reading you?

Are you copying HCL? didnt you just scum read me because i was following with everyone else?

Spoiler:

Alright, I'm fully caught up. I'm pretty freaking sure that Henry is town, I'm also pretty sure that Aku is town. Micc feels town, I really like some of his posting.

Pretty sure this ^ is just for aesthetics, you drilled micc most of the game until you decided to focus me, after you noticed joram was easily manipulated.

I believe if we lynch Bulba/NS/Thespio we win the game. I don't particularly care what order but my strongest scum read is Thespio.

But you dont vote me? even when there was over 15 days left @ this post? Yea... your a hypocrite too! you drill me about moving with the public opinion but then you align with them? you literally vote NS because:

Didn't vote for you because one of my other scum reads had a bigger wagon and I don't particularly care which of you gets lynched first.

So basically you Voted with the largest wagon.... Nice, but this would make you fall in your own category of scum.

I'm 80% sure you are scum.