Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Akuseru]

Hello everyone ^_^

Can people not have similar reasons for votes?

However, for your particular case, you should be replacing "similar" with the word "same" or "identical".

[Akuseru]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=58986

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=58936

Here's another instance where I've done this based purely off of RVS posts.

Random luck, imo. Doesn't really prove your case if it's a single incident (Also, why compare spectating to your current play? Where are the actual games where you scum hunt based on RVS replies?).

[Akuseru]

That being said, what do you think of Jguy's push, misconstruing the reasoning behind my push? Saying I don't have my own reasons?

He's welcome to his opinion/guess. I don't see it as misconstruing since i can't confirm your reasoning. From my pov its just your word against his.

[Akuseru]

I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game

that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting

.

Why does your vote remain?

[Akuseru]

HenryCabotLodge

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

Where exactly in his post makes you think he might be scum?

StubbsKVM

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

What makes you think he's a one? Why would that make him more likely to be town?

Micc
Too Calm, urks me, I would like more info on Micc.[/spoiler]

How did you conclude they were "calm"? Why does it urk you?

[Akuseru]

Mostly I want to know what pinged scummy in post 30 and why it was worthy of a vote?

HenryCabotLodge

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

Where exactly in his post makes you think he might be scum?

He is justifying his random vote, when in truth there is no justification because its random, at the same time he is claiming he is bandwagon while he is actually the one who started the bandwagon. I find this scummy.

[Akuseru]

I still think that HenryCabot is kinda suspicious seeing has in his first post he immediately votes someone up.
I think it would be good to put the pressure on him and maybe even force him to roleclaim

...in your first post you "immediately vote someone up".


Why pressure them to roleclaim?

[Akuseru]

@Akuseru, what are your scum reads so far?

Don't really have any definite scum reads atm, tbh . I've been excusing (what I consider) a couple of scum slips as possible newbie behaviour. Hopefully, as they post more, I can make a better decision on where they lie (ie: Mafia or Just New).


I would also appreciate it if StubbsKVM would post more. I was kinda disappointed when, after a wait, you only posted some comments and disappeared again.


@VeeGee: You're lacking in presence, dear.

[Akuseru]

I'm having a hard time following your thought process, Thespio.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but you believe scummy behaviour includes:

1. Not defending yourself

Spoiler:

Or someone else sees the logic behind my reads, you come across very scummy especially since you have nothing showing us you are town and even more saying you are inconsistent and support random bandwagons. Of course you dont like me im leading a charge against you!

if you didnt it would be suspicious

, although you deflecting still adds to the suspicion.

2. Defending yourself

Spoiler:

Or someone else sees the logic behind my reads, you come across very scummy especially since you have nothing showing us you are town and even more saying you are inconsistent and support random bandwagons. Of course you dont like me im leading a charge against you! if you didnt it would be suspicious,

although you deflecting still adds to the suspicion.

3. Switching to cautious behaviour

Spoiler:

Generally yea, but

caution is only a sign of scum when they shift to it when under pressure.

In other words, not matter what HenryCabotLodge says or does at this point, they'll just be piling on your suspicions?





Also, based on your reads earlier (again, correct me if I'm misunderstanding), neutral/non-scummy behaviour includes

1. Not directly responding to votes against you (ie: ignore them)

Spoiler:

VeeGee
Spoiler:
Is not Stressed under Random Lynch from first post. Soft claims Town…

2. Make a vote, but make sure you don't support it with a reason

Spoiler:

JoramvanVugt
Spoiler:
Not a very supported vote, I want an reason. #10, but no reason to think they are scum.

[Akuseru]

Thank you. I think I'm getting a feel on how you think. I don't agree with majority of your reasoning, but at least I have a better understanding of how you came to it.


@Thespio:

Moving away from HCL for a sec, what are your thoughts on Veegee's lurking?


In this case:

Stoz

Stoz is active and cautious which is good and what I expect from a Town member, He hasn't given any scum indicators away.

I don't think actively lurking is a good town tactic and should give off "scum indicators" (or a new player who's not too sure about what they should do). Why is stoz more likely to be town?



@Veegee and Stoz: What are your thoughts on Thespio's argument against HCL? on HCL's responses to Thespio? Do their points hold up? Why or why not?

[Akuseru]

The question about stoz was also directed to you, Thespio

In this case:

Stoz

Stoz is active and cautious which is good and what I expect from a Town member, He hasn't given any scum indicators away.

I don't think actively lurking is a good town tactic and should give off "scum indicators" (or a new player who's not too sure about what they should do). Why is stoz more likely to be town?

[Akuseru]

....you guys pretty much copied and rephrased your posts from the last page on to this one.


I personally feel like thespio and HCL are both town. At this point, I find it more likely that scum is amongst veegee, stoz, notscience, StubbsKVM, and Micc.

@JoramvanVugt, I'm waiting for your answers to StubbsKVM's questions (

post #95

) on the previous page.

@SEs and IC, I expected you guys to post more and at least help direct town/teach us how to play...unless both scum are experienced players *sigh* (However, I like to entertain the idea that only one of you might be scum. Naive, I know >.>)

@MOD: (I know it's mentioned in the sample role pms, but just to make sure): Did this game start with a pregame (ie: Mafia had a chance to speak to each other before it started)?

[Akuseru]

Akuseru, what do you think of Thespio removing his vote even though I'm "obvious" scum and wasn't in danger of being lynched?

I think he merely believes that by keeping his vote on you he's directing the entire game/attention on you and also believes that in order (for him as well as everyone else) to examine other players he must first take his vote of you (ie: He's sure you're scum but doesn't want to keep talking about you and the only way to stop (in his opinion) is by taking his vote off you for the mean time).

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: HenryCabotLodge

For the sake of progress

, I will remove my ballot, but im still keeping my eye on you Henry.Can we turn our attention to those who have been lurking? anyone else have scum reads page 5?

No but

everyone

focusing on you allows people to lurk

I was all for examining others D1,

but you would prefer we lynch you instead, what are you trying to hide? dismissing the lurkers and now trying to end D1 without questioning them?

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

[Akuseru]

So i read through all the posts. I voted for HCL cause i dont trust him. He started the game with a random vote but later on tells us that he thinks random votes and bandwaggons are bad and should not happen. so he changed his opinion on random votes in 2 pages time.

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game. i dont know a lot about maffia and came here to learn. some help would be amazing instead of omg he is guilty cause he didnt do this little thing like all other players do. I dont know how maffia is being played on this site. i still need to learn all of that. so sorry if i dont do things like you guys want me to..

Currently nobody is voting you. I guess your indecisiveness and poor reasons for voting HCL brought attention to you.

You mainly find HCL suspicious because he voted someone randomly but then took his vote off....or least that's what I get from your post here:

Spoiler:

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge

Im voting for you.

You start the game by random voting a person that says hi but then later in the game you unvote and say a random lynch is stupid even though you are the one that started all of this.

It seems like your opinion changes with every post. first you want a random lynch then you talk about people starting a random bandwaggon even though you were the one to start it. idk you just seem to suspicious to me.
If you were playing in my last game on another forum you would already be dead by now. somebody would have daykilled you already

That reason doesn't hold up much (to me) since it was Random Voting Stage (RVS) . That vote wasn't made to pressure Veegee or get him lynched. It was just a random vote, common during the start of the game. Something a townie is just as likely to do. Your vote against HCL (for removing his RVS) is suspicious (to me) because it's like you're willing to risk lynching a townie. Couple that with some of the other reasons you threw in to back your vote:

I still think that HenryCabot is kinda suspicious seeing has in his first post he immediately votes someone up.

Your first post was immediately voting someone up as well. If that's suspicious according to you, then why is it scummy behaviour when he does it but you can do it and still claim town? See what I mean how you're looking scummy? Just throwing baseless accusations. Mafia just need to work towards lynching any townies. Unlike town they don't have to worry about mis-lynching, so they can afford to be more reckless.


By the way, these are just my opinions. The others could have completely different reasons for suspecting you or might not suspect you at all, yet still have questions for you or criticize your play.

[Akuseru]

@JoramvanVugt: Here are some links to some reads that might be of use to you

Random Voting stage

Glossary

Commonly Used Abbreviations

Various articles of interest (Outdated, but still helpful to read)

[Akuseru]

doest this mean you are townreading him, or have you simply forgotten him?

Neither. At the time of posting, everyone in that list was null and that's where I think mafia is/was hiding. My read on JoramvanVugt is pretty obvious (particularly in my post on him earlier on in this page).

[Akuseru]

I like to seek clarification from people.

umm...can I ask when/where you've attempted to gather clarification?

[Akuseru]

Stubbs is scummy because he hasn't been able to explain what he was trying to accomplish by voting Vegee.

It's not that he hasn't been able to explain it. His explanation was not to your satisfaction. There's a difference.

Unless you're buying that voting newbies

after

they appear to have flaked is a productive way to make them post?

...The vote occurred

BEFORE

.

At the time of StubbsKVM's vote, Veegee had recently posted (he placed a vote about a couple of days ago). Not posting for two days = abandoning game? I would first think they were lurking before deciding they've left the game.

[Akuseru]

Then ask yourself what makes his two days worse than my 4.

One could argue that he chose Veegee over you because he found him more suspicious. However, StubbsKVM said it himself, he wasn't scum reading the slot (and if he was scum reading at the time of the vote, instead of just quotes implying that the vote was to prompt Veegee into posting, he would have also added the fact that he was scum reading Veegee at the time...but he didn't).

[Akuseru]

Akuseru, do you have any scumreads?

I do.

I understand you want to move on, but when will you address Micc's accusation?

[Akuseru]

FoS list (in descending order):

red

=scum reading
white=null (dual colours means null but leaning scum/town)

green

= town reading


1.

stoz

2.Stubb

sKVM

3.Joramv

anVugt

4.notscience/Bulbazoor
5.Mi

cc

6.

HenryCabotLodge/Thespio

VOTE: Stoz

Spoiler:

Posts lack substance (mostly game play/theory suggestions or a short comment here and there). Bulba even called it out and stoz’s defence was:

I like to seek clarification from people. Even when what someone says seems obvious, sometimes they actually mean something different, especially as they are sometimes making assumptions about how people play Mafia and some of those people have not been playing very long at all. Less ambiguity also gives less opportunities for scum to hide or twist their previous posts into something different.

I was surprised at this answer since I had stoz down as “guy who posts but doesn’t really post anything”. Most of your posts are NOT clarifications (and if you like to seek clarification from people, you’ve had loads of opportunities to do so…but you didn’t).

As for your current read (my comments are within the quote in red):

This is where I am right now:

Akuseru - 55% town
Has been asking good questions and seems to be putting in a good effort.

Empty read, scum can ask good questions and put “in a good effort”

JoramvanVugt - 45% town
Seems to be a bit all over the place, probably because of newness. Pretty hard to read though.

commentary :/

Bulbazoor - 40% town
Voted me, I posted a rebuttal and which he completely ignored. His reasons for voting me are flimsy and VeeGee was reasonably suspicious too. Plus the replace-out is not null from my point of view.

Reasonably suspicious? How so? You’ve never mentioned that before or explained it here. Did you just decide Veegee was “reasonably suspicious” on the sole reason that he’s being voted by others?

Thespio - 70% town
HenryCabotLodge - 70% town
Based on the back and forth a few pages ago I am happy for now to think of both of them as town.

What about their back and forth makes you think they’re town. There have been a couple of back and forth arguments in the thread between 2 players similar to this one. What makes this exchange so special?

StubbsKVM (SE) - 55% town
Seems pretty consistant. Mounting the kind of defence I would expect to see from town

"The kind of defence [stoz] would expect to see from town" O_O? For someone so big on clarification, one would imagine you’d be appalled at StubbsKVM’s No-I-don’t-want-to-elaborate behaviour.

notscience (SE) - 50% town
Started out with some great questions but has gone pretty quiet lately.

empty read

Micc (IC) - 55% town
Great activity. I don't really get his angle on StubbsKVM but he has been asking about other people too.

If you don’t get the angle why aren’t you trying to understand it or if you don't agree point it out *cough* clarification *cough*.

[Akuseru]

Tell me how I don't want to elaborate.

Okay, lets review what happened:

Spoiler:

Im more curious to know why you voted in the first place. Can you

explain why you bothered pressuring the slot when it was empty if you didn't see it as scummy?

I already explained my vote

All you've said was you voted to "get [Veegee] talking". Micc is clearly asking you to explain why you wanted to get Veegee talking, but you refuse to elaborate by clearly dodging his question.

No you haven't explained why you made the vote in the first place. From your recent posts I have gathered that you are not scum reading the slot. I don't understand what the point of pressuring an empty slot to post is, if you don't actually find that sort of thing scummy.

How did I not explain my vote?

You then post your quote once more. You didn't have to repeat yourself; Micc got you the first time. He understands you voted Veegee to get him to post. By repeating this answer, you've been dodging the underlying issue: Why did you want Veegee of all people to post?

---------------------------------------------------------------

@StubbsKVM: you could have easily answered that question with anything. I can personally come up with a couple of reasons why a townie would want to vote Veegee, however I can only guess what's going on in your mind. Even HCL came up with a possible reason:

I can see Stubbs' reasoning for the vote. The game was at a standstill and there were a lot of lurkers. He didn't necessarily scumread VeeGee, but the lurking was irksome and putting some pressure on him wasn't a bad way to get somebody in the game who hadn't said much yet but was still in an interesting (remember VeeGee was the subject of the first bandwagon).

^StubbsKVM, if that was the reason, you could have posted something along those lines to appease Micc. But you didn't. Instead you drew out the interaction by repeating the same answer (disregarding the different questions/requests for elaboration) and making it appear that Micc keeps asking you the same question resulting in a unproductive back and forth.


My analysis:

1. If you voted for Veegee because it was the popular opinion at the time:
- Town would just answer with the truth. Townies don't self-regulate as mafia do, because they don't have to worry about accidently scum slipping.
- Scum (imo) know that if they gave that answer, their action might somehow be associated with mafia. They're more likely to go that extra mile to distance themselves from anything that can possibly shed a negative light on them.

StubbsKVM,

1. You chose not to answer.
2. You also didn't acknowledge or dispute any of Micc's implications surrounding you (repeating your incomplete answer doesn't count).
3. You drew out the interaction by repeating the same answer - this makes the exchange seem pointless, making it more acceptable for you to...
4. ...direct the conversation away from this topic.

See what I mean by going the extra mile?

[Akuseru]

And i see reads from akuseru so im not sure what you issue there is either. As far as i remember he never actually dodged a question about what his reads were.

Akuseru, do you have any scumreads?

I do.

I understand you want to move on, but when will you address Micc's accusation?

Yes he did.

Do you not consider post 206 to be a post of what his reads are?

Actually my reads in that post are a response to the requests/suggestion to post from thespio, micc, and stubbs.

I do, but I had to ask again, after he failed to give them.

StubbsKVM, you asked me if I have any reads and I gave you the answer: "I do".
What do you mean by you had to ask "again"? When was the first time? Where have I failed to give reads when asked?

[Akuseru]

Okay, I can see where this went wrong. Read Micc's first question: "Why did you vote?". I did not read "Why did you want to get VeeGee talking?", because that's not what he asked.

His first question was straight forward and you gave a satisfactory answer to it: To get VeeGee talking. I never said you didn't answer it. Not sure why you're pointing this out here either.

Then the second time, he says "No, you haven't explained why you voted?". He does not ask "Why do you want to get VeeGee talking?"

Actually before he says something along the lines of "No, you haven't explained why you voted", micc posts:

Can you explain why you bothered pressuring the slot when it was empty if you didn't see it as scummy?

^I don't know how you would read this question, but to me it sounds like micc wanted you to explain why you wanted to get Veegee talking. Also, because of this addition to his questioning, when he later posts, "No, you haven't explained why you voted" he is (I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong micc) referring to the now more developed questioned "Why did you vote for Veegee, and if it was to push him to post content/talk, why?"

Spoiler: Also, random jab but I can't help myself:

"Can you explain why you bothered pressuring the slot?" =/= "Why do you want to get Veegee talking?"

but

Do you have any reads? = posts your reads now!

O_O really, StubbsKVM?

Both Thespio and stoz(see bolded questions) ask for my read on VeeGee and why I am voting him.

I immediately explain my vote. And I give my read(nothing to read=null).

So if you haven't figured it out:
Why did I want to get VeeGee talking? Because he wasn't contributing anything.(as there was nothing to read!)

First things first. *slow clap*

Took you four pages, but you finally posted your reasons for voting Veegee in attempt to get him talking: Thespio and stoz asked you for your read, you had a null because he wasn't contributing anything, so you voted veegee to prompt him to talk. Great!

...However, I'm not sure why you're telling

ME

this. I never asked you why you voted Veegee or why you wanted to get Veegee talking. I have issues with your plays not the content of your posts. Why post your reasoning behind the vote now when micc is not questioning you about it anymore? Why didn't you give him that answer when he asked for it?

Spoiler: I recently posted what I think the answer is to that last question but I'll post it here again:

1. If you voted for Veegee because it was the popular opinion at the time:
- Town would just answer with the truth. Townies don't self-regulate as mafia do, because they don't have to worry about accidently scum slipping.
- Scum (imo) know that if they gave that answer, their action might somehow be associated with mafia. They're more likely to go that extra mile to distance themselves from anything that can possibly shed a negative light on them.

StubbsKVM,

1. You chose not to answer.
2. You also didn't acknowledge or dispute any of Micc's implications surrounding you (repeating your incomplete answer doesn't count).
3. You drew out the interaction by repeating the same answer - this makes the exchange seem pointless, making it more acceptable for you to...
4. ...direct the conversation away from this topic.

See what I mean by going the extra mile?

[Akuseru]

EBWOP:

First things first. *slow clap*

Took you four pages, but you finally posted your reasons for voting Veegee in attempt to get him talking: Thespio and stoz asked you for your read, you had a null because he wasn't contributing anything, so you voted veegee to prompt him to talk. Great!

...However, I'm not sure why you're telling ME this. I never asked you why you voted Veegee or why you wanted to get Veegee talking. I have issues with your plays not the content of your posts. Why post your reasoning behind the vote now when micc is not questioning you about it anymore? Why didn't you give him that answer when he asked for it?

Never mind, I misread your last paragraph. You're actually still withholding XD But still, my apologies.

derp XD

[Akuseru]

UNVOTE: stoz

VOTE: JoramvanVugt

I think we should lynch Joram.

I don't have time to explain myself now because I have a midterm to write in 20 mins (also, I have to pm mod a question first). I'll try and post during my lunch (in 5 hours).

[Akuseru]

I still like the stoz lynch. He is not doing anything to change my stance and then he proceeds to joke about it?

Yeah, his response doesn't sit well with me either. I noticed he didn't place any votes, just threw in his preference to lynch. My thinking might probably be skewed a bit because I think stoz and Joram are scum buddies, but I see that post as an attempt to distance himself from Joram in the case he get's lynched. And now with Joram abruptly switching his vote to stoz...yeah, scum buddies.


I don't mind lynching stoz over joram today.

However, I would like to post something else (had to get an okay from mod before to make sure I won't be breaking any rules). So if you guys can hold off hammering until I post that would be great. Should be done in 10 mins or less.

[Akuseru]

I was going over Joram's past posts to see if he had any finished games here on mafiascum (however, note that american spring is his FIRST game on MS). I found one marathon game on MS http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=62457.

In this game he mentions he's played mafia before (I'm assuming this is the first one) on another site and mentions the name here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7010827

I looked it up and I'm pretty confident it's the game he mentioned and he indeed played in it with the same username (game is over so I'll post links): https://hypixel.net/threads/hypixel-maf ... er.347536/


In american spring, Joram acts almost helpless and uses the excuse of being new for his play.

In the hypixel game, Joram is a lot more active (he's playing SK in that one).

Here are some specific day 1 posts from that hypixel game:

https://hypixel.net/threads/hypixel-maf ... st-3889352

https://hypixel.net/threads/hypixel-maf ... st-3891091

https://hypixel.net/threads/hypixel-maf ... st-3891569

https://hypixel.net/threads/hypixel-maf ... st-3892126

https://hypixel.net/threads/hypixel-maf ... st-3892215


What do you guys think? I still think stoz is scum as well, but I feel like Joram has been lying when he hinted at being too new.

[Akuseru]

I hate swapping my vote this much, So if we are offing stoz for his bad gameplay lets do it, Aku you can hammer.

Why are you in such a hurry to hammer? There are 2 days left.

[Akuseru]

You can keep your vote on one person and have your FoS on another, thespio. The only reason I switched my vote was because I was worried you guys would hammer and I still wanted to hear from Joram before we go into night.

[Akuseru]

But could the same logic be applied to notscience who has played in a similar manner

Not really. notscience does post content. He gets town points in my books for pointing out Joram's cop bait/call out. I'm still wary of players like him though. Still can't read him o.o

[Akuseru]

Why are you voting stoz, Joram?

[Akuseru]

ehm yes i did but post of those posts just went unnoticed... and when you mentioned some term i looked it up and read about it, thats how im trying to learn from my newbie game

Can you quote the posts that went unnoticed please?

Jordan, do this please.

...

OMG JORAM, ANSWER MICC'S QUESTION!

[Akuseru]

[quote="In post 352You have extensive periods of time where you are online yet not posting.[/quote]

Okay, not sure why, but I feel like this game is lead by this unspoken rule that Mafia must be "bad players", particularly based on activity. It shouldn't. You guys should be looking for slips, ie: someone posting to "fake" activity and look like they're scum hunting so others might acknowledge their behaviour and see them more as town. You guys should be looking at people that make you feel uneasy (ie: in my case that's Joram) etc...

Anyway, my point is we shouldn't be searching out good candidates for a policy lynch; we need to be looking out for scum!

This is the second time you've pushed for the stoz lynch with no elaboration. You say you scum read him but you don't say why. You've also declared JoramvanVugt to be town twice. Why is he town? You haven't commented on the merit of the pressure on him right now. You haven't really commented on much of anything in the last few pages actually.

HCL, I myself don't understand notscience and his confidence in his stoz and joram's reads, however if he was scum, it would be highly inefficient to go against a bandwagon (ie: Joram's). They just need to kill any townie right? Why not just go with the flow? I feel like you condemning him for going against the popular opinion isn't a good criteria to base your vote, especially when going against "the flow" doesn't benefit scum in anyway. Just something I'd like you think over.

That being said, notscience could still be scum just planning out/building his town meta early on, but at this point in time it isn't enough for me to overlook the more suspicious players in the game.

@Joram, just use your iso

[Akuseru]

Whoops. Sorry for broken quotes and hard to read post. I can't edit my posts so I'll just post it again in a spoiler in case the first one was too hard to follow.

Spoiler:

You have extensive periods of time where you are online yet not posting.

Okay, not sure why, but I feel like this game is lead by this unspoken rule that Mafia must be "bad players", particularly based on activity. It shouldn't. You guys should be looking for slips, ie: someone posting to "fake" activity and look like they're scum hunting so others might acknowledge their behaviour and see them more as town. You guys should be looking at people that make you feel uneasy (ie: in my case that's Joram) etc...

Anyway, my point is we shouldn't be searching out good candidates for a policy lynch; we need to be looking out for scum!

This is the second time you've pushed for the stoz lynch with no elaboration. You say you scumread him but you don't say why. You've also declared JoramvanVugt to be town twice. Why is he town? You haven't commented on the merit of the pressure on him right now. You haven't really commented on much of anything in the last few pages actually.

HCL, I myself don't understand notscience and his confidence in his stoz and joram's reads, however if he was scum, it would be highly inefficient to go against a bandwagon (ie: Joram's). They just need to kill any townie right? Why not just go with the flow? I feel like you condemning him for going against the popular opinion isn't a good criteria to base your vote, especially when going against "the flow" doesn't benefit scum in anyway. Just something I'd like you think over.

That being said, notscience could still be scum just planning out/building his town meta early on, but at this point in time it isn't enough for me to overlook the more suspicious players in the game.

@Joram, just use your iso

[Akuseru]

Thespio, read the next paragraph in that same wiki.

[Akuseru]

ehm yes i did but post of those posts just went unnoticed... and when you mentioned some term i looked it up and read about it, thats how im trying to learn from my newbie game

Can you quote the posts that went unnoticed please?

Jordan, do this please.

...

OMG JORAM, ANSWER MICC'S QUESTION!

Use your iso, you only have 20 short posts to look at.

[Akuseru]

i never lied

Yes you have:

1 completed, 1 close to being done.

You've finished a marathon game here on MS (you were RB), 1 off-site, and some ToS.


And then there's this:

Have you ever considered asking questions about the stuff you dont understand?

ehm yes i did but post of those posts just went unnoticed... and when you mentioned some term i looked it up and read about it, thats how im trying to learn from my newbie game

Prove this isn't a lie by posting those "unnoticed" questions.

[Akuseru]

if you learn how to read,

I'll work on my reading if you promise to work on your counting.

Marathon game + offsite game + ToS = ....

[Akuseru]

ill probably just drop out if i dont get lynched

Anti-town either way. *sigh*

Don't join a game unless you'll play to win. As a vanilla town you win if all scum are lynched. It's a team effort. Even on the chopping block you should be making an effort to scum hunt (ie: why not analyze the motivations of those voting against to give town more info). You're suppose to be playing for a town win. You care too much about staying alive.

[Akuseru]

@Bulbazoor, notscience and Joram: Why should stoz be lynched over Joram?

[Akuseru]

He should not, i think he is town, Thespio is the one everyone should be looking at

Thanks for answering my question, Joram! Okay, I can understand why you find Thespio suspicious. After Thespio, who would be your next person up for lynch and why?

[Akuseru]

like thespio said

you post almost no reads but still want stoz to get lynched,

Just to confirm, you're scum reading thespio, but you still agree with scum thespio when when he tries to point suspicion at notscience?

Furthermore, is the issue notscience's inability to explain his vote against stoz or is it because he doesn't post reads on everyone (just need to you to clarify the "almost no reads" part)?

[Akuseru]

First and foremost, what scum thinks "hey, I will take the pm from the OP and claim that it was my role pm? hint- they don't. That's a town thing, he knows he's town, he knows his role pm is town and its like "fuck how do I prove it to these people"

That being said, stoz's repeated discredits of hsi wagon are noted.

I don't see a newbie scum quoting the sample VT role and passing it off as their pm so farfetched actually...

Also, stoz hasn't discredit any of the suspicions on his wagon. In fact, he's acknowledged most of them, and tried to explain his actions.

I really don't want the day to end in a no lynch, so again, bulbazoor and notscience, why should we vote stoz?

[Akuseru]

Unlike stoz.

Who is trying to switch into another wagon.

...joram trying to actually live and follow his reads.

So you're saying you'd rather vote stoz because unlike joram who's trying live and follow his reads, stoz tried to switch to another wagon?

But...

UNVOTE: Thespio
VOTE: Stoz

Ill jump on the bandwaggon

And please cop invest me tonight and you will find out that im actually town

Yup, that unvote on thespio is a sure sign he's following his scum read, unlike stoz who tries to switch into another wagon.

bulbazoor, try again, please.

[Akuseru]

UNVOTE:



Bulbazoor, I'm not trying to get you to join a bandwagon. Your confidence in Joram being town is bugging me. You're too sure but your reasoning is terrible. So help me understand you. Why should we be voting stoz over Joram?

[Akuseru]

I am having trouble wowndering why everyome

is not questioning not

. I stand by my reasoning. Joram can not say for one ton investigate him if he is scum. I do not think newbiemplayers use that

strong of ate

. If he does not know

themechanicd

of this site, why would he even try that?

Can you go over the words I underlined. Questioning who? Strong bait? He doesn't know the mechanics of this site?

Sorry if my constant questioning is bugging you. I'm trying to take advantage of the moment and get a better read on you.

[Akuseru]

Spoiler: Posting my reads since I'll be pretty busy this weekend

FoS list (in descending order):

red=scum reading
white=null (dual colours means null but leaning scum/town)
green = town reading


1.

stoz

2.Bulba

zoor

3.Mi

cc

2.StubbsKVM/JoramvanVugt
5. notsc

ience

6.

HenryCabotLodge/Thespio

Stubbs is down to null because I told myself that if he brought any attention back to the micc/questioning discussion I would give him town points (ie: [Referring to the my earlier posts at Stubbs] My main issue with him was I thought he could be scum because he was trying to avoid answering the question/deflect it to something else (I even accused him of attempting to discredit micc) to distance himself from the issue. He brought it up when he responded to me in his post today.

Bulba is null/scum because he just bugs me. He's too sure Joram is town. His reasoning was pretty vague. He's sure Joram is town but he doesn't make an effort to stop/disprove of a Joram mislynch. (ie: I kept my vote on joram and expressed that I wanted a lynch before the day ends. I was looking if either bulba or notscience would make any attempt to get me to switch my vote to stoz or dissuade me from Joram, which neither of you did. I then took off my vote to see if you would try to push me to vote stoz, but you didn't (that doesn't mean much but I'm letting you know that I've been trying to get you to prove you're town to me in anyway I can think of XD). Compare this to notscience who doesn't even want a Joram lynch at all, even willing to vote someone else as long as it isn't his town reads. Contrast his "we are not lynching him" to bubla's "Joram is town"). You don't seem to really care which direction this lynch goes which just bugs me.

Micc will probably go up to null/scum if stoz flips scum (process of elimination - I just can't see bulba start his game trying to get his scum buddy lynched. I can't see stoz being so calm through it all. Furthermore, that would be so mean! A bussing that would bring tears to my eyes T_T)

Joram's down to null. His attempt to post his role pm was expected based on his play in the off-site game and ToS (sorry not sorry for stalking). Also he suspects notscience.

[Akuseru]

I wont be here tomorrow until the evening. Willing to lynch in this order:
Stubbs>Jordan>Thespio/Stoz>NS/bulbazoor

So consider this an intent to hammer sometime before deadline tomorrow night i guess. If the day even goes that long.

We have less than 24hs. No one is at L-1. If you leave it to tomorrow night, we might end up with no lynch.


VOTE: Stoz

That should put him to L-2

[Akuseru]

I want it to be stoz for the reasons me and not science have posted.

What happened to notscience sheeping you?

If the lynch comes down to me and stoz, lynch me.
i think stoz is more valuable to the town then me

Sorry dear, I'm town reading you right now and I disagree with stoz being more valuable to town (or at least not in the way you're implying). See if we lynch you Joram and you flip town (which I think you would), we don't really learn much from the lynch (ie: The wagon, those not voting, etc). However I feel like we (or at least I would) get a lot more reads from a stoz lynch regardless of what alignment he flips.

I'm also down for a Bulbazoor lynch if anyone's up for it. Someone I'm also scum reading and would provide info whichever way he flips.

[Akuseru]

Bulbazoor, after stoz, who are you scum reading and why?

[Akuseru]

I count 3 setups (ie: doctor, jailkeeper, or bulletproof) - assuming one mafia MUST submit a kill every night.

Thespio, you're all over the place @_@


First you accuse Joram for speculating a cop (btw, out of everyone in this game, you're the most fixated on the cop, thespio.), then bulba for trying to out the cop, then bubla and notscience working together to out the cop, and now just notscience because they first pointed out the cop.

Make up your mind please.

[Akuseru]

From the way they play/post, I can see why thespio and HCL find notscience suspicious. However, I don't get why Micc and Bulbazoor would find notscience's posts/push for lynch near the end of day interesting or deserving of a lynch, respectively. I think I might be seeing some subtle scum painting.

Ughhhhh.. I want notscience now! For suggesting to selfhammer in a suboptimal situation to do so. You could have hammered joram if you wanted a lynch. I townread him. But you still could have if you wanted a lynch so badly.

You know very well that notscience made it clear that he wanted a lynch D1, but it couldn't be Joram (his dislike for a Joram lynch was stressed a number of times).

@Micc and Bulbazoor: What about notscience's posts or actions do you have a problem with or find interesting enough to point out, and how exactly would that relate to a scum alignment?


FOS on Bulbazoor and Micc

[Akuseru]

@Akuseru, so what do you think about Joram?

Null.

Observations: Talkative when he's on the chopping block and disappears again once the coast is clear.

[Akuseru]

For what exactly?

Like I said, I thought there might be a chance of you trying to scum paint him (Mainly because I saw that attempt to self-hammer in that situation as more town than mafia).

but I do know notscience has pulled the "lynch me please" attitude off successfully as scum before.

I'm satisfied with this answer and, if what you say is true, then I can understand why you'd want to look into.

What do you think about his deception?

The intentional misrepresentation of his experience? I'm not sure what to make of it yet.

[Akuseru]

L-1 already?

I really want to hear from stubbs before the day ends <.<



Thespio, make sure you're reading the thread.

Those arent reads... is aku the scum and i or Hcl and bulba?

You wouldn't have asked this if you were reading everything (Come on thespio, it's on the previous page >.>).


Anyways, I want to lynch bulbazoor. His past posts and wagon jumps on D1 bug me. I also don't buy his suspicions of notscience.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

[Akuseru]

start voting Stubbs for things that are actually scummy. Like making useless votes to look busy, avoiding current topics, and flat out not being here.

It's hard to come up with a case for Stubbs. He's barely around. It doesn't feel like his votes are made to look busy, nor does it feel like he's avoiding current topics (I have my own guesses of why they might appear like that, but I would like to hear the reasons from stubbs himself). He's just not here. In this game. That doesn't really tell me much (or you tell me, micc. How can I interpret his actions?).

If I were to vote for stubbs right now, I would be voting based solely on his "poor" play.

Hopefully he'll start posting more?



Besides Micc, does anyone else feel strongly about Stubbs being scum?

[Akuseru]

Oh right, you find him scummy too, right Bulbazoor?

[Akuseru]

Oh right, you find him scummy too, right Bulbazoor?

[Akuseru]

Spoiler: Responses to some of bbt's comments, not really important

Small note on the wording - 'guess' implies he knows Jorma to be town. Scum don't guess, they know.

They were discussing NS's reasoning, not alignment.

74 - Aku, why would you excuse any sort of scum slip? Surely by pressuring the people who you think slipped this helps you to determine whether they are newbtown or it was a genuine scum slip, no?

People are all over the place in voting, my single vote wouldn't do much (imo), so I resorted to questioning. Is that bad? Oh well, hopefully after more games I'll figure out which play is more efficient for me.

In post 99, Thespio wrote:
3: this is an indicator, if someone is constantly swapping views then they are hurting town, and look scummy to me.

Disagree. Scum are much less likely to consistently swap views/change opinions - it draws too much attention on themselves. Scum try to stay consistent and say and do the right things to avoid unwanted attention.

I find this funny, because one of that's one of the contributing reasons why I think thespio is town. His criteria for scum can be used to describe himself. It's this absurd mindset and play that have me doubt thespio could be mafia.

I would still feel better with a bulbazoor lynch.

215 - More explanation from Bulba for why he is vote parking on Stoz. This is making me feel really uneasy, he is skating by generally unnoticed as he isn't engaging many other people and instead is sitting on Stoz.

Weird right? Note, we're onto our next day and he still hasn't made any attempts to hunt scum. Now he's just parked on NS.

But the thing that bothers me about it now that I'm reading it again is the fact that bulbazoor seems to think it would be somehow less scummy for notscience to hammer someone both he and notscience read as town over Stoz, someone they both agreed was scummy.

I'm having trouble understanding the reasoning behind that one. I get the opposition to the self-hammer, but I don't know how lynching someone you both mutually read as town would be more desirable.

Exactly, and he doesn't care to explain it either.

Despite this, his suspicion of notscience doesn't seem forced to me today.

Explain. I understand why someone might want to vote for NS, but why does bublazoor want to vote for NS?



A comment on thespio's post where he mentions NS:

And im refraining because he is town and you are scum.

How do you know that thespio? First you were sure he was scum, then you we're conflicted between him and bulba, and now he's definitely town? Smh
I really hope you're not scum. I keep excusing you because I keep thinking "It's just thespio being thespio". You're consistent with your inconsistency (votes, reads, opinions etc), if that makes any sense. You're everything I'd imagine scum would try to avoid being.

[Akuseru]

Aku, why the hell do you only read into me and not notscience? I feel like you are letting her slip by too easily.

I'm not looking into him (dem drill tails~) right now. I want answers from you and then I'll move on, promise.

[Akuseru]

@Bulbazoor, If bbt slot is now down to null who's comes next in your reads after notscience and why?

[Akuseru]

If he had said "Stubbs was scummy" I would have thought he was pro town

Why would saying "stubbs was scummy" be pro-town? It's not.

Anyways, I guess what you want is for bbt to look at stubbs from an "objective" point of view and point out/acknowledge any issues in stubbs posts (like he did many of us in this thread), and if any of those issues align with your (thespio's) image/thoughts of stubbs you would see bbt in a more towny light? As bbt already mentioned, whatever he says about his slot would be bias and useless to us - he can say something negative about stubbs, and it might look like he's just trying to appeal to those scum reading his slot before. He could say something positive and it can be construed into him trying to make his slot look better.

[Akuseru]

Why thespio?

[Akuseru]

What do you think about Thespio refusing to respond to any of my accusations towards him during my catch up?

1. He hasn't read the entire thing (he's been asking you to comment on your slot before you even finished your catch up and has been fixated on it since - he probably won't move on until you've answered to his satisfaction).
2. Some of those accusations don't explicitly mention thespio, and I doubt he clicked the links, so he most likely skipped over them. thespio only looks and focuses on anything he could use for his cases and for the most part ignores the rest (ahhhh so scummy...b-but I still think he's town @_@).



@thespio, can you respond to all of the comments, questions, and accusations surrounding you from bbt's catch up, please?

[Akuseru]

@Bulbazoor: Just to confirm, do your scum reads for notscience and thespio look like this:

Notscience – arrogant (you played with NS before, right?) and is explaining himself, thus probably hiding something/avoiding traps.

Thespio – blatantly scummy behaviour

Correct me if they don't.

[Akuseru]

Aku, I need you to explain that Thespio town read.

I told you one reason already. However, you interpret that as null - I don't entirely disagree with that view, but it's this behaviour in addition to the level of investment in this game that makes me feel like he's town, or at least not as near to my suspicions of some other players.

[Akuseru]

@bulbazoor

NS was scum reading stoz before you even joined the game (or at least not town reading him. I think it's safe to say his "eh" are those he's suspecting).

Also, why do you consider it sheeping? why can't it just be a similar viewpoint? Is it because his votes and reads come after yours? How is that scummy? HCL and I voted/expressed similar thoughts on stoz (before NS' "sheeping" post). THESPIO EVEN CHANGED HIS READ TO MATCH YOURS! (stoz went from town to scummy - this is implied from his vote after you placed yours - and Joram went from town to null - thespio even later votes joram after someone else votes them, but I guess you don't care about that second one because it's only sheeping when it's done to you and only certain people count at that smh).

As for NS' read on Joram, he could have plenty of reasons for thinking Joram is town (ie: After some discussion, other players started to look more scummy to him and by PoE Joram isn't on his radar anymore/more likely town, or Joram something about Joram's posting/behaviour struck his as town etc)


Also this happened:

He ultimately sheeps me on joram being town for no reason.

Because mafia either has a RB/Goon or 2 goons.

RB/goon has a 50% chance of having a cop versus a 25% chance with goon/goon.

It looks like his team is rb/goon and he;s assuming there's a cop.

So

That doesn't look like someone who's sheeping you. You just gave another reason for why you think Joram is town, and he countered it. Considering he's town reading joram, it means in spite of that scum possibility he probably had (his own) reasons for still town reading Joram. Later on in the game he pushes his town read by pointing out, what he believes to be, Joram's recent town behaviour. All you, bulba, ever did was repeat how you think Joram is town because he's new or "being towny". You even changed your vote to help lynch Joram while NS held his ground! Yet you still claim, NS is sheeping you?!!!


By the way, thespio has done most, if not all, of what you're accusing NS of doing + his obvious scummy behaviour, but you still voted for NS. You could have started a wagon on thespio (NS didn't even have a wagon when you voted him). Do you have some grudge against NS or something? To be honest I can't decide if you're scum or you're just scummy town :/


Also, I really don't think NS can be mafia. Why promote your lynch day 2 (with no night kill)? I heard he's done it before as scum, but I'm not suspecting it in this game. Feels more like he's doing a favour by helping town gather info from this wagon (I saw it as the same thing when he first introduced the idea to avoid a Joram lynch - a lynch, that if it had gone through and he flipped town, would tell us nothing/be a waste of a lynch). I also don't even agree with a lot of the scum reads made on him. I'd rather focus on my scum reads like bulba or my null reads (which, are probably more likely to be mafia since scum are avoid making any potential action/post that can be interpreted as scummy, unlike town who might still go ahead and risk a misunderstanding of motives to get closer to lynching scum). I'm looking at you Micc.

[Akuseru]

EBWOP:

Sorry, I posted the wrong quote up there. It should be these two:

UNVOTE: Thespio
VOTE: Stoz

Ill jump on the bandwaggon

And please cop invest me tonight and you will find out that im actually town

Town says this. Why would maf say this unless it is an attempt to appeal, which i doubt it is.

Because mafia either has a RB/Goon or 2 goons.

RB/goon has a 50% chance of having a cop versus a 25% chance with goon/goon.

It looks like his team is rb/goon and he;s assuming there's a cop.

So

[Akuseru]

Bulbazoor?

[Akuseru]

Just checking if you're following the thread ^_^

[Akuseru]

What would you like to see happen?

[Akuseru]

[Akuseru]

Why bring the game to a standstill, though? NS won't vote himself, so it's just a draw at this point.

You mentioned before that you were okay with either a NS or Bulba lynch today. Did something change?

[Akuseru]

I'm staying put on bulba.

[Akuseru]

I will not selfhammer.

A bit off topic perhaps, but why do you keep repeating this? Is self-hammering a custom on this forum, and if so, what's the significance?

[Akuseru]

835 - 'Ive stated over and over again that I think you or bulbazoor are better lynches' and 'In the case of you and bulba I think its pretty telling'.

And, now I'm back to being scum.

So, yeah, where is the reevaluation of your read?

Or you were null. You'd still be a better lynch than someone he's town reading and there are no other scum reads (besides bulba).

I'll let NS do the honours.

Then we can lynch him tomorrow.

Why not Micc? O_O
Looks like you have a stronger read on him than you do on NS. Are you assuming we'll have a NS wagon tomorrow? If so...

In post 933, Micc wrote:
And you're not lining up lynches?

Nope, because me wanting to lynch NS is not dependent on the flip of someone else. You just said I was scum no matter what Bulba flips; that's lining up lynches.

...it seem's like your NS lynch is wagon dependent/random. Nothing wrong with "lining up your lynches" if they're based on flips/associative tells. Along with trying to lynch scum, why else do we lynch, if not to use the information to influence our current read/future lynches?

[Akuseru]

OK, and you don't see a problem when someone says 'If x is town I'm going to lynch you but even if x is scum I'm still going to lynch you'...

Micc gave two possible reasons/scenarios for why a scum bbt might leave a bulba wagon. All it really means is that because of your recent actions, regardless of how bulba flips, he'll be keeping an eye on you/suspect you. It's pretty different than saying "You are now my top lynch choice for this sole reason! I'll lynch you if bubla filps scum! I'll still lynch you if bulba flips town!"

[Akuseru]

I think we should massclaim at this point.

thoughts?

I was thinking about this, too. I think micc might have already jailed stubbs...

[Akuseru]

My current scum read Joram > HCL > NS > BBT

At this point I'm just trying to decide between Joram and HCL.

[Akuseru]

Joram is, imo, the scummiest player in this game right now (like bulba makes no attempt to hunt scum. Just vote parks and hope no one notices or questions him. His reasons for voting are terrible/empty...just like bulba's) + he avoided any direct interaction with bulba (However, bulba pressing he was town and then voting for him when he had a wagon makes me feel uneasy about voting Joram. Why would bubla be so obvious about trying to stop a scum lynch >.>?)

HCL didn't interact with bulba as much as I would have liked him too. Bulba was pretty scummy, but besides entertaining/slightly validating the idea of bulba being scum, he stayed off of bulba's for the most case. That's why there's a possibility of him bussing bulba. Once Micc and I decided we weren't going to budge from bulba, NS wasn't going to vote himself, and thespio didn't look like he would switch wagons, HCL prob decided that NS wagon wasn't going to go through anymore, and he might as well bus bubla. Although, at the same time, I think it's unlikely because he could have stayed put and wait for a no lynch. Then again, he expressed suspicion on bulba, so he might have just voted to avoid any future suspicion of allowing a no lynch over a bulba lynch.

tl;dr WIFOM

[Akuseru]

I was hoping no one would point that out. I wanted a mass claim first :<

[Akuseru]

I'm not in favor of a massclaim. Everybody is going to claim townie so it's just a useless distraction.

Everyone claiming townie is a possibility, since there are only 2 possible setups. A massclaim would only be useless if a townie PR lies to avoid being NK. Which would only hurt town. I want to know why there was no kill N1.

[Akuseru]

^ Aku, I quoted micc, he susp joram. Its possible he jailed him and the scum tried to use joram to kill someone

I don't think so. He voted stubbs as soon as Day 2 started and shortly later disproved of your (thespio's) Joram vote.

[Akuseru]

Yes but DP1 he was in the Joram wagon.

There was no kill N1! If micc jailed Joram, why didn't he express any suspicion towards Joram? Micc was town/null reading Joram and pretty much left him alone for Day 2.

It's more likely that micc jailed stubbs.

[Akuseru]

Nope. I'm just saying there could be chance that he jailed stubbs to prevented him from killing. He could have also jailed who he thought was going to be targeted and prevent a kill that way, but I doubt he'd protect Joram.

[Akuseru]

Yeah, it's confusing. I should probably drop the idea for now. With two scum alive I doubt Micc was targeting them rather than a townie.


VOTE: Joram


That should be L-1

[Akuseru]

Meh.

I still think he's town but we have no counterwagon and I have nothing I really feel confident in.

How about lynching HCL? Would you be down for that?

[Akuseru]

Although lynchin HCL urks me

How come?

[Akuseru]

Spoiler: I'll probably be unavailable this weekend, so I'll just post my thoughts on HCL and Joram (my 2 choices for lynch)

HCL

1. HCL tends to ignore the negative comments/scum reads on him (the ones that are not directed at him but more towards everyone else)...

545

979

1011



...unless they're from Bulba

619 - Bulba mentions an HCL action (pretty light in comparison to the above links) that bugged him. HCL comments on it/explains himself (in the last paragraph of that post).




2. I never really liked his reason for voting NS (starting from day 1 and throughout day 2).

Day 1, he kept pressing that NS was pushing a stoz lynch based on stoz' activity and he considered that scummy (which I didn't agree with since NS was pushing for a lynch that wasn't his town reads and stoz had a wagon so why not? What's wrong with lynching stoz for his activity/lack of content?), he then pressed that it would make NS look bad if stoz flips towns.

Day 2 - Primary reason for voting NS is because stoz flipped town. 826 - last paragraph.

They're not terrible reasons for voting NS, but compared to those reasons, bubla was more suspicious (ie: HCL didn't like how NS was voting stoz based on activity (said it was flimsy), but he didn't comment on Bulba's reasons for voting NS: arrogance and "sheeping". With his vote on NS, HCL still stayed "objective" and called out any scummy behaviour he saw in other players (ie: 684, 709), so I don't understand why he didn't call out bubla. He rarely commented on bulba unless asked.




3. He passively complains about NS not being around to post so he (HCL) can further his case against him (His excuse for why his reasoning for voting NS is getting weaker in comparison to the developing bulba wagon)

notscience - Still scum. His absent is detrimental to my case since there's a lot of new information to go on, but I'm still comfortable with my vote on him based on what I've said already.

He get's his chance...

Oh shit he's here!

Not comfortable lynching bulba before we've had some input from notscience.

..but doesn't engage with him. NS is his top scum read, and he could have pushed/questioned him (along with BBT) but didn't. That was odd.

A couple days later HCL posts:

NS has also not posted in awhile, which hurts my case against him in light of new developments.

You've had your chance to talk to him. You could have left questions for him to answer. You decided to stop going after your top scum read. But now it's NS' fault for not acting scummy anymore? How did his inactivity hurt your case (note: the inactivity between NS' last post and the above quote)?




4.

I think it's highly doubtful that notscience is scum considering his play towards Bulbazoor yesterday.

However, near the end of day two...

OK, so you DO see them as a possible scum team then?

Yes. There are many possible scum teams at this point.

Anything is possible, this could be a protracted performance by the two of them- they were, after all, the chief defenders of Joram on day 1 and the movers in the Stoz lynch. Day 2 (without a nightkill without a nightkill on Day 1!) is not the time for such speculation, though. It's better to lynch somebody based off of their posting and what it would mean for the town, and right now I think Bulbazoor is the best player for that.

You say it's highly doubtful based on his play yesterday. However, based on his play yesterday, you said it was a possibility and even gave reasons why. Why didn't you mention it was highly doubtful yesterday when BBT asked you? Instead you pressed that NS was still scum. You didn't explicitly say they were a scum team, yet you wouldn't drop NS as scum. Either you did think they were a scum team, or you voted Bulba even though you thought he was town (a scummy town, but still town). If so, why would you vote bulba if you were town reading him?

Joram

1. Most of my points against him basically come down to him being a really bad townie. And not in the scum-trying-to-act-town-but-failing way. He's just a bad townie (consequently making him a bad scum...)

[Akuseru]

Also, can we have a mass claim (I'm VT), please? I really want to clear up the whole RB being in this game. Can the 1-shot/BP townie please identify themselves.

If there's one, I'll take the time to look over Joram more. If not...I don't think two goons would risk being caught role fishing for a role that isn't even in the setup.

[Akuseru]

JORAM BEFORE YOU GO, WHAT IS YOUR ROLE?!!

[Akuseru]

I know, I just wanted to give you another chance to state it. Thank you.


@Everyone else: Please role claim.

[Akuseru]

EBWOP

If there's one, I'll take the time to look over Joram more. If not...I don't think two goons would risk being caught role fishing for a role that isn't even in the setup.

Never mind. Missed a setup. There is a possible setup with 2 goons and a cop.

oh well, guess I don't need the rest of you to mc as much anymore XD. Joram doesn't seem to have PR that would need him to log in during night, so I do wonder why he was logged in last night. How does the auto login work? Doesn't seem to work for me when I check it.

Mass claim is a bad idea.

I foolishly overlooked a setup so I now agree. If there's still a BP they should stay silent about their role XD.

[Akuseru]

No, there is no chance we have a cop (due to Micc's flip)

That's not what I meant.

Before micc flipped, if there are two goons, they would have considered the setup with a cop.

What I was trying to achieve with the mass claim is that if we ended up with setup 1, it would confirm that there are two goons in the game. I think that would be unnecessary for two goons to fish for a role that doesn't exist in this game, therefore we could have dropped the whole "Joram was fishing for the cop". But I derped and overlooked setup B.


...sorry

[Akuseru]

Last night i logged in to say that my internet was dead, i managed to get online after trying for like 20 hours (might have been 2 days ago). Im from europe so timezones might be messing that up a bit. right now its almost 1AM here

When I said "last night", I was referring to the night phase. Why did you log onto the site during N2?

[Akuseru]

Since when is logging in to this site while its night time in 1 game scum behavior.

It isn't. I still wanted you to address it, though. I personally won't be using it against you.

[Akuseru]

The fact that there was no nightkill in night 1 points to Micc jailing scum. Bulba turned up scum and Micc pushed for his lynch for most of yesterday- I don't think that's coincidental.

I don't agree. It's more likely that there was no night kill N1 because Micc protected whoever was targeted or scum hit bp townie. Why would micc try and jail scum N1? There are two of them, and only 1 puts in the kill. To pull it off, Micc would have had to successfully choose scum + it would have had to been the one who placed the kill. If Micc did happen to go for scum that night, why Veegee/Bulba of all people. He wasn't high on Micc's scum list.

I had one of the most important levels of interaction with him (setting up the hammer for his lynch)

True, but you know what else that looks like?

or most of the day, I thought notscience was the better lynch option so I was directing more of my energies at him. Even so, Bulbazoor was still on my radar as attested to in my posts 818and 819.

Doesn't mean much to me. I don't think you would have said all that if I hadn't been questioning you about bulba and his actions right before. If you had ignored bubla after that, you would have started to look suspicious.

[Akuseru]

On the more specific charges I'm willing to explain my actions especially if I feel like I'm being misrepresented (as was the case with the post with Bulba you cited).

How is BBT's post about you much different from Bulba's post about you. Both say you're town but then add a scummy point that bugs them:

Henry have been pretty

obviously town

for a while (though I'm not sure I liked Henry switching to the Bulba wagon now that Bulba has flipped scum).

That looks like bussing

.

Vs

HCL is town.

The whole " bws create reactions" was a good idea and we should use it today to get reactions from people like stubbs and maybe espio. I also liked how he comes up with things that benefit us as a whole town, not any antitown things that scum tend to say or come up with.

What might rub me the wrong way, is the vote on my slot for saying hi. Maybe he did not know about site mechanics and random voting stage.

You didn't feel misrepresented when BBT mentioned your possible bussing?

[Akuseru]

As far as not questioning notscience, what was I supposed to question him on? He made a post saying what he thought of the developments since he had been gone. He likes to respond to questions by saying he's already answered them anyway.

I'm sorry, and it's probably me, but I guess I can't give you a pass on that. Those aren't good reasons. At the time you were in favour of an NS lynch over Bulba. Didn't you want get more info/better read so you could stay with your vote?

I was realizing it was silly to leave my vote on somebody who hadn't posted in days when Bulbazoor had been prolifically scummy.

Yes, you realized that it would be silly for a townie to leave their vote on somebody who hasn't posted in days when bulbazoor had been prolifically sucmmy. What you say could be true, but I hope you understand that it could also be viewed as scum who couldn't continue ignoring their partners wagon without looking scummy.

Regarding my "reversal" on an NS/Bulba scum team I'll say what I said yesterday: anything is possible. It's an incredibly remote possibility but it's still a possibility. Having a few days in the night phase allowed me to reassess my reads in the game and I guess I've softened up on notscience a bit.

Why is NS unlikely to be scum?




Sorry for triple posting, but I didn't like how it all looked in a single post

[Akuseru]

At the moment i have no idea who to vote for.

What are your thoughts on me, BBT, and HCL?

[Akuseru]

Who do you find more suspicious: Thespio or HCL?

[Akuseru]

Thespio took his vote off you.


Who do you find more suspicious: Thespio or HCL?

[Akuseru]

...okay. Cool.


Joram, would you be willing to volunteer for today's lynch? I'm currently the only person voting you. Would you join me?

[Akuseru]

Aku, why Joram over Henry?

I only have 2 scum reads: Joram and HCL. I don't see scum being in you, NS, or thespio (if so, gg T_T).

Therefore it doesn't matter to me who we lynch first (assuming we no lynch on mylo if we choose wrong today). Thing is, HCL has played a better game than Joram. I'd feel bad if he flipped town.

Your thoughts, bbt?

No im not willing to volunteer. if we lynch me another townie probably dies tonight, i dont think its smart to do

What are you doing for town now? If you get to the final 3 along with thespio, would you vote anyone else besides thespio? Do you think town would vote thespio over you? How would you convince them you're town?

[Akuseru]

So aku you say lynching me over someone else is smart, killing 2 townies is good?

Maybe. I asked you those questions so we can discuss it, you know, if it's a good idea or not.

If you truly believe that thespio is scum, how do you expect town to win if the final 3 ends up being you, thespio, and HCL? Do you think HCL will vote to lynch thespio over you? If you end up changing your mind down the road and decide HCL is scum, do you think thespio would lynch HCL over you. After what you just told me on this page and according to your reads, it looks (from your, joram's, point of view) like keeping you alive would be detrimental to town.

I don't want you to volunteer to lynch yourself, but I feel like if you truly believe in what you posted, YOU would want to lynch yourself.

[Akuseru]

lets say HCL or Thespio dies and turns out town. who would you lynch?

In that situation, if HCL dies, scum is thespio and town wins!. If thespio dies, scum is HCL and town wins!(see how easy that was without you in the mix?). Since you're town it'll be your win too, and it probably wouldn't have been possible without your sacrifice :D

Do you still see it as illogical or is it because you just don't want to be lynched?

[Akuseru]

Are you suggesting that we should all vote thespio because at one point today he had a vote on you?

[Akuseru]

Are you suggesting that we should all vote thespio because you've been saying he's scum since the end of day 1?

[Akuseru]

im just putting out my vote

In hopes of...what?


What do you plan on achieving by just putting your vote out?

[Akuseru]

Answer my question, please.

[Akuseru]

Joram, answer my question please.

im just putting out my vote

In hopes of...what?


What do you plan on achieving by just putting your vote out?

[Akuseru]

oh and the Stoz wagon makes NS look inno

How so?


Anyways, NS is not not scum.

yeah im still trying to figure you out. im not convinced looking at that deadline stuff is the best way to do it either, which is mostly why I haven't bothered to go look.

instead lets talk stubbs and bulba. they are both in my top three as well. Whats your reasoning behind bulba?

It's moreso from a PoE aspect.

hey that's how I feel about you...and kind of bulbazoor too but less so.

wanna join me on Stubbs?

Oh my list, he's the one I least want to lynch.

I'd much rather bulba.

This exchange is from early D2, long before the start of a bulba wagon. Why would scum (already down a NK) say this?

[Akuseru]

Part 1) NS is experienced, he isnt one of the newbies, so its unlikely he would give himself away by refusing to swap and hanging solely with his scum buddy.

Why would staying on his scum buddy give himself away? NS was the first to put and keep a serious vote on veegee/bulba. If that lynch went down he'd practically be confirmed town. It would put scum to a disadvantage, but still confirmed town...so yeah, don't see where you're coming from with the "looking scum for hanging on his scum buddy".


Yes the second part was at you as well. I wanted you to read the NS and micc's exchange and give me a reason why you'd think a scum NS would answer like he did.

[Akuseru]

No, I think he's more likely to be town and I was trying to get you to see it too. It looks like I misunderstood and thought you were scum reading him. If that's the case, sorry.

who would you like to lynch, thespio?

[Akuseru]

Joram is giving off a huge newb town vibes in his latest series of posts.

How about newbie scum? Why is he more likely town? How do you tell between the two?


I'm not opposed to an HCL lynch, but what is our plan if he flips town?

[Akuseru]

Why would a townie in his position be exasperated?

[Akuseru]

Is there a single person who hasn't attacked Joram this DP?

...everyone except thespio?

I feel like that response wasn't warranted. Or more like the response doesn't corrspond to the pressure. That's a response to a danger of being accused/targeted/lynched. However the pressure in this case was answering questions he didn't want to respond to (or doesnt have an answer to).

[Akuseru]

Are you ready to place a vote?

@Mod: Can we have a vote count, please?

[Akuseru]

Joram scum night killed the only person in the game against lynching him. With 3 or 2 votes to lynch (depending on which day we lynch), he made sure to keep around those of us most ready to lynch him. What is Joram scum playing at?

@BBT: what do you think of this/the nk?


VOTE: no lynch

[Akuseru]

ts a newbie strategy, and if they have the mind set that NK's can hint at who it is, then they are unlikely to kill someone accusing them.

True. *sigh*

[Akuseru]

Tis fine, WIFOM is my life~

Gonna go over everyone's ISO from yesterday. BBT has been bugging me since yesterday (well you all did it, but thespio reacted as expected and NS got killed >.>).

[Akuseru]

@Mod: Must scum SEND in a kill every night. ie: Do they have the option tn "no kill".

I'm debating over BBT (HAPPY BIRTHDAY!) right now. I agree, Joram killing you spells instant lynch for him, like the NS kill, it doesn't make sense.

Want to go for another no lynch to narrow it down?

I'm going to be busy for most of the morning/early afternoon, so I'll be back in about 5 hours or so. Sorry.

[Akuseru]

Reading and will post shortly.

I just started a new job today, so my day will be packed with orientations and workshops. I know you guys are trying to rush things, but after my lunch break (now) I won't be able to get back on until late afternoon. I'd appreciate it if you guys wouldn't hammer me (or anyone else) in the next 5-7 hours because I just won't be around to defend myself or make any contributions to discussions.

[Akuseru]

I'm still reading the last couple of pages but I wanted to ask:

@Joram: what's your time zone?

[Akuseru]

Scum would have known I was BP as well which also doesn't make sense.
Actually, with Joram and Aku having claimed VT it would make no sense for scum!Thespio to shoot me because he would know I was VT. If Joram or Aku is scum then it makes sense that they had a 50/50 chance between myself/Thespio of hitting a VT. I thought Thespio was hunting numerous times that he was BP so it makes sense for scum to avoid him and target me instead. Me being almost conf town thanks to Micc's flip provides further reasoning for me being targeted.

Are you BP? Also, why haven’t you used your bullet this entire game. If you guys decide to lynch me, I dare you to vote no lynch, allow for a night kill and agree that BBT shoots me tonight.
If there’s only one kill, then scum is BBT.

All that happens is I die and I want to win this game Today.

Why do you care if YOU die, we win as a team. If you die tonight, it clears you up. Town will probably end up voting against me (all that happens is the game gets stalled a bit longer - but isn't it better to be sure). So why are you rushing the game?
If you survive, you can use your bullet to shoot (me) - again, if you were going to lynch me today, why not just shoot me at night and prove that you were the BP.

And if one shot BP and mafia both target me tonight, I die, but you guys have another try to lynching sucm and you wouldn't have lost the game on my mislynch!


tl;dr: we vote no lynch, BBT should shoot me at night (if you guys are sure that I'm scum).

I just started a new job today

Where u working? fast food? Maintenance?

Speech Language Pathologist. The rest of my day will be visiting all the schools I'll be working at this year/meeting teachers etc. PACKED DAY @_@

I'll post a short defense next.

[Akuseru]

*facepalm* Does that mean it's 1-shot bullet + bulletproof...or bulletproof just works once....

[Akuseru]

Derp.

Anyways, here's a quick defense. It's know its not much but I feel like you guys should consider it:


I’ve been on bulba’s case since Day 1. Yes I had good reasons for stoz and that’s why I decided to stick with him as my lynch (also I knew that I wouldn’t be able to get a bubla wagon on my own). As you guys have seen throughout the game, I stick to people I find suspicious. Why would I stick to bulba from the get-go, and continue to try to get my scum buddy lynched from the beginning to the end of Day 2 when scum was ALREADY DOWN 1 NIGHT KILL!

Day 1

Unlike stoz.

Who is trying to switch into another wagon.

...joram trying to actually live and follow his reads.

So you're saying you'd rather vote stoz because unlike joram who's trying live and follow his reads, stoz tried to switch to another wagon?

But...

UNVOTE: Thespio
VOTE: Stoz

Ill jump on the bandwaggon

And please cop invest me tonight and you will find out that im actually town

Yup, that unvote on thespio is a sure sign he's following his scum read, unlike stoz who tries to switch into another wagon.

bulbazoor, try again, please.

UNVOTE:



Bulbazoor, I'm not trying to get you to join a bandwagon. Your confidence in Joram being town is bugging me. You're too sure but your reasoning is terrible. So help me understand you. Why should we be voting stoz over Joram?

In post 420, Bulbazoor wrote:
I am having trouble wowndering why everyome is not questioning not. I stand by my reasoning. Joram can not say for one ton investigate him if he is scum. I do not think newbiemplayers use that strong of ate. If he does not know themechanicd of this site, why would he even try that?


Can you go over the words I underlined. Questioning who? Strong bait? He doesn't know the mechanics of this site?

Sorry if my constant questioning is bugging you. I'm trying to take advantage of the moment and get a better read on you.

Spoiler: Posting my reads since I'll be pretty busy this weekend

FoS list (in descending order):

red=scum reading
white=null (dual colours means null but leaning scum/town)
green = town reading


1.

stoz

2.Bulba

zoor

3.Mi

cc

2.StubbsKVM/JoramvanVugt
5. notsc

ience

6.

HenryCabotLodge/Thespio

Stubbs is down to null because I told myself that if he brought any attention back to the micc/questioning discussion I would give him town points (ie: [Referring to the my earlier posts at Stubbs] My main issue with him was I thought he could be scum because he was trying to avoid answering the question/deflect it to something else (I even accused him of attempting to discredit micc) to distance himself from the issue. He brought it up when he responded to me in his post today.

Bulba is null/scum because he just bugs me. He's too sure Joram is town. His reasoning was pretty vague. He's sure Joram is town but he doesn't make an effort to stop/disprove of a Joram mislynch. (ie: I kept my vote on joram and expressed that I wanted a lynch before the day ends. I was looking if either bulba or notscience would make any attempt to get me to switch my vote to stoz or dissuade me from Joram, which neither of you did. I then took off my vote to see if you would try to push me to vote stoz, but you didn't (that doesn't mean much but I'm letting you know that I've been trying to get you to prove you're town to me in anyway I can think of XD). Compare this to notscience who doesn't even want a Joram lynch at all, even willing to vote someone else as long as it isn't his town reads. Contrast his "we are not lynching him" to bubla's "Joram is town"). You don't seem to really care which direction this lynch goes which just bugs me.

Micc will probably go up to null/scum if stoz flips scum (process of elimination - I just can't see bulba start his game trying to get his scum buddy lynched. I can't see stoz being so calm through it all. Furthermore, that would be so mean! A bussing that would bring tears to my eyes T_T)

Joram's down to null. His attempt to post his role pm was expected based on his play in the off-site game and ToS (sorry not sorry for stalking). Also he suspects notscience.

Notice here, that bulba is my second choice to lynch! Look at the argument I present against him. Why would I be point a flashlight on my scum buddy DAY 1??!!
And I’m doing this on my own, I’m not sheeping anyone else/building on someone else’s push against bulba. I’M STARTING IT AND PUSHING IT HOPING OTHERS WILL JOIN ME!

I'm also down for a Bulbazoor lynch if anyone's up for it. Someone I'm also scum reading and would provide info whichever way he flips.

Near the end of the day I even make it clear that I would like to lynch either stoz or bulba!


Day 2

FOS on Bulbazoor and Micc

Anyways, I want to lynch bulbazoor. His past posts and wagon jumps on D1 bug me. I also don't buy his suspicions of notscience.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

Right off the bat, day 2 I’m voting bulba and I stick to it!

Aku, why the hell do you only read into me and not notscience? I feel like you are letting her slip by too easily.

I'm not looking into him (dem drill tails~) right now. I want answers from you and then I'll move on, promise.

Even bubla was annoyed that I was just sticking to him, refusing to look at anyone else. Again, if I was scum why would I do this, no one else is considering him much so why bring focus on bulba.

@bulbazoor

NS was scum reading stoz before you even joined the game (or at least not town reading him. I think it's safe to say his "eh" are those he's suspecting).

Also, why do you consider it sheeping? why can't it just be a similar viewpoint? Is it because his votes and reads come after yours? How is that scummy? HCL and I voted/expressed similar thoughts on stoz (before NS' "sheeping" post). THESPIO EVEN CHANGED HIS READ TO MATCH YOURS! (stoz went from town to scummy - this is implied from his vote after you placed yours - and Joram went from town to null - thespio even later votes joram after someone else votes them, but I guess you don't care about that second one because it's only sheeping when it's done to you and only certain people count at that smh).

As for NS' read on Joram, he could have plenty of reasons for thinking Joram is town (ie: After some discussion, other players started to look more scummy to him and by PoE Joram isn't on his radar anymore/more likely town, or Joram something about Joram's posting/behaviour struck his as town etc)


Also this happened:

He ultimately sheeps me on joram being town for no reason.

Because mafia either has a RB/Goon or 2 goons.

RB/goon has a 50% chance of having a cop versus a 25% chance with goon/goon.

It looks like his team is rb/goon and he;s assuming there's a cop.

So

That doesn't look like someone who's sheeping you. You just gave another reason for why you think Joram is town, and he countered it. Considering he's town reading joram, it means in spite of that scum possibility he probably had (his own) reasons for still town reading Joram. Later on in the game he pushes his town read by pointing out, what he believes to be, Joram's recent town behaviour. All you, bulba, ever did was repeat how you think Joram is town because he's new or "being towny". You even changed your vote to help lynch Joram while NS held his ground! Yet you still claim, NS is sheeping you?!!!


By the way, thespio has done most, if not all, of what you're accusing NS of doing + his obvious scummy behaviour, but you still voted for NS. You could have started a wagon on thespio (NS didn't even have a wagon when you voted him). Do you have some grudge against NS or something? To be honest I can't decide if you're scum or you're just scummy town :/


Also, I really don't think NS can be mafia. Why promote your lynch day 2 (with no night kill)? I heard he's done it before as scum, but I'm not suspecting it in this game. Feels more like he's doing a favour by helping town gather info from this wagon (I saw it as the same thing when he first introduced the idea to avoid a Joram lynch - a lynch, that if it had gone through and he flipped town, would tell us nothing/be a waste of a lynch). I also don't even agree with a lot of the scum reads made on him. I'd rather focus on my scum reads like bulba or my null reads (which, are probably more likely to be mafia since scum are avoid making any potential action/post that can be interpreted as scummy, unlike town who might still go ahead and risk a misunderstanding of motives to get closer to lynching scum). I'm looking at you Micc.

Here I counter bulba’s arguments and point out the holes in his reasons for voting.

I'm staying put on bulba.

I don’t understand why you guys would think I’d plan to spend majority of this game trying to get my scum buddy lynched….

[Akuseru]

D1 you played the classic 'FoS buddy, vote town' tactic'.

You can interpret it that way if you want (I don't see how it means I'm scum, since everyone in this game switches between lynch choices all the time - I don't even do it as much as others)

Where are your comments on my Day 2?

[Akuseru]

BBT why are you just tunneling me trying to make anything I post look scum. I can understand using WIFOM but you're basically only using posts and actions that can be seen as both town or sucm, but only presenting them as scummy.

If you really are town, I suggest you spend some time looking through EVERYONE'S iso/play thus far and spend some time to make an informed decision. You don't need to rush this.

[Akuseru]

And that's my time for today.

See you tonight, perhaps


VOTE: no lynch

[Akuseru]

BBT first posts:

I'm REALLY struggling to see Aku as scum.

Then he asks thespio’s opinion on me. As soon as he sees that thespio is considering me scum, he immediately posts:

I agree that Aku is most likely to be scum.

^when and how did this change of thought happen? He didn’t post anything in between the two posts. He’s just taking thespio’s view and sheeping it. I bet if thespio preferred Joram over me, BBT would be pushing Joram right about now.

Aku made a vital mistake, only scum wants to keep me alive... he advocated for me, and buddied me the past two days.

Thespio, how do I even respond to that? You’re not even considering me as either alignment, just scum. You’ve decided that I’m scum and that I probably shouldn’t keep you alive. YOU’RE ALIVE BECAUESE I CAN’T KILL YOU AT NIGHT! I’m town. And as for not lynching you, I only go after suspicious people.

Then again it could be that scum does not have to kill and BBT is making it look like this, then again im wondering why nobody has counterclaimed the bulletproof townie (or is it still not sure its even in the game?)

Yes, Joram, there is another setup possibility. We know there’s a roleblocker (micc), therefore there are two possible set-up: one with a BP and one without it. BBT could be lying about his role and we actually have the setup where everyone is VT.

meant we're in LyLo now. Technically, it's MyLo but realistically we're in LyLo. We need to lynch correctly Today to win.

You’re misleading them, making them think they HAVE to vote today, creating a sense of urgency – we can no lynch and you can lynch me the next day. Even if you die tonight, Joram and thespio still out vote me. You probably want to rush things before I can get a chance to talk/point out your “scumminess”

Aku, you were moving between Joram and Stoz D1. You might have 'showed interest' in a Bulba lynch, but that means nothing.

Moving between lynch choices means nothing. Is that all you have against me? I didn’t just show interest on bulba, I made sure everyone knew that bulba was my second lynch choice and even wrote a paragraph on him for everyone to see:

red=scum reading
white=null (dual colours means null but leaning scum/town)
green = town reading


1.

stoz

2.Bulba

zoor

3.Mi

cc

2.StubbsKVM/JoramvanVugt
5. notsc

ience

6.

HenryCabotLodge/Thespio

Stubbs is down to null because I told myself that if he brought any attention back to the micc/questioning discussion I would give him town points (ie: [Referring to the my earlier posts at Stubbs] My main issue with him was I thought he could be scum because he was trying to avoid answering the question/deflect it to something else (I even accused him of attempting to discredit micc) to distance himself from the issue. He brought it up when he responded to me in his post today.

Bulba is null/scum because he just bugs me. He's too sure Joram is town. His reasoning was pretty vague. He's sure Joram is town but he doesn't make an effort to stop/disprove of a Joram mislynch. (ie: I kept my vote on joram and expressed that I wanted a lynch before the day ends. I was looking if either bulba or notscience would make any attempt to get me to switch my vote to stoz or dissuade me from Joram, which neither of you did. I then took off my vote to see if you would try to push me to vote stoz, but you didn't (that doesn't mean much but I'm letting you know that I've been trying to get you to prove you're town to me in anyway I can think of XD). Compare this to notscience who doesn't even want a Joram lynch at all, even willing to vote someone else as long as it isn't his town reads. Contrast his "we are not lynching him" to bubla's "Joram is town"). You don't seem to really care which direction this lynch goes which just bugs me.

Micc will probably go up to null/scum if stoz flips scum (process of elimination - I just can't see bulba start his game trying to get his scum buddy lynched. I can't see stoz being so calm through it all. Furthermore, that would be so mean! A bussing that would bring tears to my eyes T_T)

Joram's down to null. His attempt to post his role pm was expected based on his play in the off-site game and ToS (sorry not sorry for stalking). Also he suspects notscience.

As you can see Joram went down to null. I didn’t just “show interest” on bulba. I completely directed my attention to just stoz and bulba. You’re falsely presenting my posts as scum with your interpretations of my actions. DON’T POST YOUR INTERPRETATIONS WITHOUT BACKING UP WITH QUOTES. @ Joram and Thespio, you guys shouldn’t just accept whatever he says. Go back and check my iso to confirm if what BBT says about is true or not. As you can see he’s slightly skewing things to make me look scum.
@BBT: You still haven’t commented on my Day 2? I asked you and you ignored it.

At this point I’d rather consider BBT as scum (because he towns so bad – he was completely against the bulba lynch for absolutely no reason, pushed a lynch on HCL without any reason, and now is trying to push a lynch on me without any reason. If I get lynched and you’re scum, gg. You’ve effectively taken control of the game by somehow taking control of thespio and Joram, who seem to go along with anything you say. However, if we lose the game and you’re town, you’ve been more anti-town than good and you really need to change your play. You can’t win as town alone so stop trying to.

[Akuseru]

@BBT: why are you trying to speed up this lynch. You guys should all vote no lynch. You're worried you'll die, right? Well I think you're scum so I don't think you have to worry about it.

However:

- If BBT dies and I survive: Thespio and Joram have even more reason to vote against me. Again I can't outvote them if they choose to lynch me.

-If BBT and I survive: BBT and whoever is left (either thespio or Joram) can both vote against me.

- If I die: YES, NOW YOU CAN'T WASTE A MYSLYNCH ON ME AND YOU HAVE A BETTER CHANCE AT WINNING.

As you can see, BBT has no reason to finish the game today. He's just worried I change peoples minds (He did the same thing the day before when he hammered the no lynch. He saw that I was becoming paranoid of him and wanted to end the discussion before it could go anywhere. He said that we shouldn't discuss things during mylo and just no lynch right away. It's mylo right now, we have no new confirmed information (just a bunch of wifom), but instead of voting no lynch and holding of discussion he suddenly wants to end the game. why?)


If you guys don't want the night to last too long, we can ask the mod to cut night short. There's only 4 of us, right? I think 24 hours is enough for scum to send in their kill. Why not narrow this down a bit? If you have a good reason against a no lynch besides the fact that it'll extend this game, please share. I don't understand why all 3 of you would be against a no lynch. We played this long, what's one more day?

@mod: If we all agree can you reduce night to 24 hours?

If so,

I would like night to be shortened to 24 hours

[Akuseru]

I dont wanna go 2 days in a row on a No Lynch...
my vote is on Aku and will stay there

I've asked the mod to reduce night to one day. Why are you trying to rush things? If you're town Joram, you have nothing to lose by voting no lynch. Are you 100% sure I'm scum? You can still vote against me the next day if you like.


If not, Joram what is your reason for not voting no lynch (assuming we have a short night)?

[Akuseru]

I need to go to bed. Hopefully town can still win this:

VOTE: BBT


Thespio, I ask you: you've been town reading me the entire game. What I have I done that you could defineltly confirm I'm scum? You're just considering me scum because you're considering BBT is telling the truth. But you can't even confirm that.

You're disregarding all my town play for the past 5 days, because of BBT wifom that can't be proven.

Joram's hesitancy makes you think that he's town. Okay then, so your decision should be between me and BBT.

Compare us both.

I have done a lot for town. What has BBT done for town to date?
What have I done scummy (I don't think I've done anything scummy). BBT refused to vote for bulba and he could be scum because we can't prove he's BP. Furthermore, BBT is the one who scolded us and told us to no lynch without discussion on mylo, and now it's again mylo but he's going against his word and is completely against mylo.

Thespio, Joram - just take some time and objectively compare both me and BBT. Give us town points and scum points. Then vote for the most scummy player.

[Akuseru]

Btw: I didn't ignore your question, but I was in the middle of voting BBT. No lynching would still lose us the game because I'd still be lynched if I wasnt NK. I still proposed the NK because I wanted to see who would oppose it. A townie who wants me lynched would have no reason to oppose it.

[Akuseru]

EBWOP: Btw thespio*

[Akuseru]

Right, except for the fact that you didn't vote Bulba on D1, not even once. Considering Bulba was your 'second choice' there was an awful lot of vote switching between both Stoz and Joram from you; why no votes on Bulba?

Thespio, Joram - you guys were there near the end of Day 1. We nearly run out of time right? Do think I would try to start a new bandwagon and risk the chance of no lynch occurring if no one joined it, or would I just stick to my #1 scum choice (stoz) and hope I get the first scum, and then go after the next scum the next day?

Why is BBT using this as his only reason for voting for me?


I have work for the rest of the day, sorry this will prob be my last post for now.

Good luck, guys.

[Akuseru]

Woops for got to add this to the last post

Holy shit, that's one hell of a misrep. Here is the full quote that Aku cut short to take it out of context;
In post 1189, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I agree that Aku is most likely to be scum.

Joram never targets me. Ever. You don't target me, unless you were planning on no lynching, which you didn't propose so I feel it's unlikely to be you. That leaves Aku.

So, the questions that Aku follows up with HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED in the post that he cut short. That is a huge misrep. He cut short my post AND took it out of context in order to try and make it look like I had no reasoning for coming to that conclusion.

I left it out because it's not a proper reason for changing your mind, so I was asking again for an answer.

"Joram never targets me. Ever. You don't target me, unless you were planning on no lynching, which you didn't propose so I feel it's unlikely to be you. That leaves Aku."

This POE never made any sense. ALL three of us never target you...you conveniently left out how I never targeted you.

As you can see, the question is left unanswered, which is why I asked it. Now answer my question. How did your view of me change in a couple of posts?

Scum slip. Only I and scum know there is a role-blocker. Given Aku has not CC'ed me as BP, and has claimed VT, how does he know there is a role-blocker?

That was a typo. I had originally wrote out an explanation about both setups but decided to just stick to talking about just one of them. I guess I backspaced everything except for roleblocker when I meant to just keep jailkeeper.

Thespio: BBT just used that "scum slip" to back up his vote against me, something that occurred AFTER HIS VOTE. He has yet been able to come up with anything from D1-D4. Why is that? How is he 100% sure I'm scum, that he's willing to rush things without considering anyone else except me?

[Akuseru]

Well played, BBT!


Thanks for the game everyone


Thank you for modding, fferyllt! You were great!

Lynch All Liars

Hear, hear!

I'm also super surprised nobody analyzed Aku's D2 play - it would have been really hard for me to claim Aku was scum had anyone looked into it.

I was pretty shocked, too. I thought that once I brought their attention to my Day 2 play (and point out the fact that, when asked directly, bbt wouldn't comment on anything Day 2 related), town would stop doubting my alignment @_@ Boy was I wrong.

[Akuseru]

Aku to be honest it killed me to end it, but we lost and i knew it, i was gonna die, regardless of nk Joram would lynch you :/

...You hammered me </3

I think you could have spent the day trying to convince Joram to reconsider his vote. It doesn't take much to get him to unvote/vote. It would have been difficult but at least try, right? Why the rush to end the game? Did it seem that hopeless?

[Akuseru]

but he hard core TUNNELS!!!!

...he took clearly town motivated plays and claimed they were scummy. He didn't even explain why they were so scummy. You and joram just took his word for it without questioning it. I'm still shocked.

I have to wonder...did you or joram even read any of my last posts?

[Akuseru]

I did, did you read my discussion with joram

about voting you the next day

?

See, this is the problem. Why were you focused on the next day? You were in Day 5. Work towards changing Joram's vote on Day 5 (why bother trying to prep him/get him to vote differently Day 6?). If you felt like it was too much to do on your own, you could have waited until after I came back from work and we could have both pressured Joram to change his vote together (I got him to reconsider his vote last night on my own, I'm sure with the both of us pushing him we might have had a chance).

I wonder where the hopelessness came from/giving up on Day 5?