Newbie 1915: Africa [Game Over!]

[u r a person 2]

ayyyyy

I think I'll be listening to this a bunch for this game might need a new avi too

Spoiler: flavor

and here's something for ya'll to ponder while I catch up

Spoiler:

[u r a person 2]

TTTT, you're loopdan, right?

[u r a person 2]

@MaryJ excuse me if you answered this somewhere - What is your mafia experience prior to this game?

[u r a person 2]

TTTT looking townie on page 1

I think in these newbies you can sometimes get a decent scum read on someone's first post, but I don't think that happened here.

[u r a person 2]

Hey guys, I'm new, never played mafia online or in irl at all, but my friends said I should try this so here I am. I'm a bit confused by my role to be honest though, since I'm a Vanilla Townie (it's ok to say that, right?), does that mean I don't get to do anything? Sorry if it's a dumbb question, I've never played before like I said, so I want to find out what I can. Great to get started with you guys, sure this'll be heaps of fun!

does the enthusiasm continue through the game?

[u r a person 2]

I'm just trying to learn the game and be friendly. I wanted to post something friendly before I really dug into the meat of the game, and I thought it would be ok to say that since I'm with the good guys. Like I said, I have no idea what I'm doing, just trying to be nice and have fun.

My man! Keep this attitude up. Mafia needs more players working to keep games friendly and fun.

[u r a person 2]

nope, it dropped off significantly since then
he's claiming being busy irl but he hasn't said anything of substance ... in like days iirc; i've basically lost the townread i had on him early game

Interesting

"(it's ok to say that, right?)" is my favorite part

I see what you're saying. I kind of believe he's new to mafia. But if he's asking this question that means he had to consider that it wasn't okay to say that. So why did he say it?

Does newb!scum come out the gates with a hard dumbtell like this? Does he assume it will get him universally townread, or does he think the scum reads will be worth getting town reads from the people that do believe it?

It's certainly audacious but not impossible coming from newb scum. I think it's fair to say that most newb scum don't try this gambit.

and then there is the possibility that he's newb scum posting genuinely in the sense that he doesn't know that you're not supposed to claim like that, but newb scum is probably more likely to read the thread before posting, I guess. so probably not that.

[u r a person 2]

If you're really town, you'll need to build a convincing case as to why we should dismiss your apparent newbish mistake and account for why you didn't bother to read the rules before playing a game you've never played before.

You went from not knowing whether posting outside the thread was allowable to being assertive and confident quite fast.

or maybe your early questions to skitter were your way of getting control over a game you're new to - that would be neat

I really want to know your experience

[u r a person 2]

hey urap have you had any scumgames onsite?

yeah I have 5 completed games and an ongoing game that i'm dead in. all town games - 4 of which are newbies.

Enjoy. I really recommend 1905 - not so much for meta because I was purposefully acting scummy but because... well because I was a bad ass in it.

[u r a person 2]

oh, and I've kept PT's in a few of them, too.

that way you can really get into my head.

[u r a person 2]

no scum games 1905 was cop one

So I went and read some of the links and went back through everything so far, and I've calmed down a bit from my blow-up regarding the vote swarm on me, so here are my guesses so far based on the small amount of content:

skitter: hard to tell, hasn't said much besides "I'm here to help" etc.
Elements: random inexplicable starting vote, voting me for similarly inexplicable (though not quite as bad, I can see why scum (scum is another name for mafia I think) would open like that) reasoning.
MJL: seems to be legit fairly new like me, new account, not much to go on, but suspicious of me which is I guess reasonable given my first post, leaning town
TTTT: a bit random early, then going after me but more reasonable than Elements, also to answer your question about my friends that I missed the first time, I don't know usernames (I'll check)
BBmolla: one random(?) vote, no other posts, nothing on him

That's everyone who's posted, and in reponse to MJL, I see what you mean about the name, my case is that I'm looking for mafia in this post, and I'll continue trying to catch them, TTTT's avatar is definitely freaky (seriously, that's just disturbing), and I hadn't read the rules in depth yet because I was just trying to make a friendly opening, I was about to go read them after.

Hope that helps.

>goes and reads wiki
>comes back and makes this post which is a picture perfect example of what town should be posting when they get into early trouble

town or scum with an experienced partner
strong town lean

[u r a person 2]

if NMSA is scum, it is with BB, TTTT, or Skitter. full stop

[u r a person 2]

WHAT THE HECK I LITERALLY SAID I'M FOR THE TOWN AND NOW YOU ALL WANT ME DEAD WHAT THE HECK SERIOUSLY I POST ONE LITTLE "SLIP" AND NOW Y'ALL ARE GONNA KILL ME

To clear up a misconception you may have. Just because I've voted you doesn't mean I want you dead. Votes are the only tool we have during the day to help us root out scum so using them to apply pressure or even to just spark a reaction is very common. If I wanted you dead this early I would be doing exactly what ruined the first game of forum mafia I played.

this post is town, lol

"Hi, you're flailing. Let me help you up."

[u r a person 2]

@MaryJ excuse me if you answered this somewhere - What is your mafia experience prior to this game?

3 games before this one. This is my first on this forum. All versions I've played were forum games, not live ones.

could you talk with players outside of the game thread on those forums?

[u r a person 2]

You might be using your apparent newness as a cover to conceal your scumminess. It's probably unwise at the very least because it draws people's attention your way.

Stop advising scum on how to play

actually this is an interesting catch

So for Maryjo to make this point she must believe

1)NMSA is new to forum mafia because if she thought he was experienced scum making a dumbtell gambit she wouldn't give him the advice
2) that it's a bad play for scum to make

which begs the question, why doesn't she think NMSA is not just newb!town?

[u r a person 2]

which begs the question, why doesn't she think NMSA is not just newb!town?

one too many negative
why doesn't she think NMSA is simply newb!town

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE: NotMySpamAccount

I said I'd unvote and I will. I'm not releasing NotMySpamAccount from my possible mafia list because it still might have been a first time scum player trying their hand at distancing themselves from their alignment.

TTTT will be my new best friend at some point in the future, so I refuse to accept that this person is untrustworthy. Yet.
Elements made a really valid call on NotMySpamAccount. Possibly because Elements is scum and needed to point their finger anywhere but at themselves.
Skitter may have been speaking as ic, but I felt I was fully justified in calling NotMySpamAccount out for a really scummy post. Defending a partner?

ehh, with this follow up post coming not much later the progression actually seems super organic

[u r a person 2]

not defending him, more pointing at that the push was bad and based on things like his account name which is .... totally irrelevant to his alignment, and i still don't know why his entrance was scummy (ie as opposed to just bad)

i'm a little confused by NMSA because his initial entrance seems plausible to me at face-value but a few of his posts belie that he may have played mafia somewhere before

Skitter, were you skimming the thread? I saw that you were moving

[u r a person 2]

To respond to these, I don't know usernames as I said before, but I'll check when I get a chance. I haven't played mafia before, but I read a load of wiki stuff since my initial posts, so I know what's going on a little better now.

second time putting off revealing your friends. I'm hesitant to push this because reasons but I'm low key wondering if these friends exist or if they were just fluff for a post. a good tip for town - keep the promises you make

like, I'm not doubting that you have friends btw <3

[u r a person 2]

This is my concern. NMSA could be faking newness for personal amusement (people can be weird like that), or they could be newbie scum attempting to misdirect other newbies with a fake vt claim.

For now, I'm content to accept the explanation that they provided.

concerned and content is an odd combination

i scum read and town read this post

it's townie to have multiple theories running through your head because incomplete information

but it's fence sitting and conflicting word choice which both feel scummy

this is a pretty great post

[u r a person 2]

It's not impossible that NMSA cut the cheese, but you dealt it. Meaning you might have pointed out that his post reeked of scumminess so none of us bother looking at you.

So I only looked for scummines and called it out because I wanted people to look at other people not me?

I'm probably over analysing this, but it seems like you are actively searching for reasons to call me scum

I don't think that you're over analyzing this. It is almost a contrarian conclusion to come to

but i think it comes from town? I mean, she's just thrown shade at you and shade at TTTT and then immediately after about faces and posts

I'm probably over analysing this, but it seems like you are actively searching for reasons to call me scum

No, I'm not. Probably like you, I'm just attempting to shift the pieces into place and figure out who is who. I don't find you to be overly defensive and your accusation against NMSA was certainly a valid one.

so is her game plan to push you or to pocket you? and why is she working against whichever one of those goals she has decided upon?

It's not even fencesitting because the first post was a straight up scum read. I'm landing on paranoid town

[u r a person 2]

good

can you point me at your most recent reads or just give me a list

[u r a person 2]

In this spoiler, NMSA says
"hey there are people not posting, guys"
"Could you please give me a plausible reason so I can move my vote there?
"Thanks" *moves vote*

Spoiler: what is this progression?

So as far as I can tell, the only people posting are TTTT, Elements, MJL, and myself. According to wiki articles, this is bad for the town. I don't suppose there's any way to get other people talking?

or we could vote them and hope

If I didn't already think you were scum I might agree to this, simply because we need more info. As it is, I'm reluctant to switch. If you can give me a good reason to, I might.

I would be fine with getting rid of someone who isn't posting. It'll give us some practice if nothing else. I haven't seen anything from Tall1s. Maybe we'll hit paydirt.

VOTE: Tall1s

MJL seems town, since she's making reasonable arguments. Outcome doesn't look threatening. If anyone else wants to get onboard with at least pressuring these people, now's your chance.

VOTE: Tall1s

[u r a person 2]

if NMSA is scum, it is with BB, TTTT, or Skitter. full stop

or you

okay so if you're following my premise,

NMSA is newb!scum who comes in, makes a mess, and then gets seriously coached for his next post

which would have required my slot to have been in the game for it to be scum with him

[u r a person 2]

have you played scum before?

nope

nsg is very good at getting pagetops when she mods

i noticed, that's why i was so exited

ok then i'm tending town on you

oh interesting
you used the same read on both of us
i wonder if this is ai one way or another
probably not?

[u r a person 2]

Replying to Skitter here: I read town on everyone with a slight (very slight) scum lean on you. Sorry.

Elements didn't actually say anything that I didn't say as well. We both saw NMSA's post as LAMIST. I just pointed it out to see if he would become defensive. He did not.

throwing shade/paranoia at slot after slot
but town reads on everyone but skitter

this slot is practically lock town

[u r a person 2]

wait i just realized the coaching thing can't be right for nmsa because there were only 8 minutes or something between the two posts - at least not in the way I was describing it

[u r a person 2]

oh interesting
you used the same read on both of us
i wonder if this is ai one way or another
probably not?

not really a read
more trying to form a baseline of how much mafia experience you have; that's relevant to how i sort people

I was assuming that you were reading each of us as not likely to play this way as first time scum
then asking if we had ever played scum
then town reading us because we had not

is that not what occured?

[u r a person 2]

Hey's what's up gang, sorry for the late entrance but I wasn't online yesterday so didn't know the game started.

hey remember when I said there were no scum-indicative entrance posts

I spoke too soon.

[u r a person 2]

NotMySpamAccount: Lynch-bait. If he really was an experienced player I doubt he would be stupid enough to make a first post drawing attention to himself like that, my gut is telling me he is genuine.
Elements: I think him throwing shade on Spam for his username was BS and opportunistic.
MaryJoLisa2: Don't vote for Tall1s it's a very bad lynch that gives almost no info to the town. The slot hasn't posted and will be replaced soon, leave it until then.
TTTT: He is trying to pocket MaryJo
skitter30: Agree with most of his points so far.

The others haven't posted enough for me to have any opinion

VOTE: Elements this guy is gonna flip scum

this is really bad, too

are we not wagoning this slot?

[u r a person 2]

I don't understand how it helps mafia at all if Elements thinks NMSA is mafia?

If you're not helping town, you're probably mafia. I think that is a fair assumption to make. The post is detrimental to town if NMSA is town so there's no reason to do it if they are town. If they are mafia they could be trying to build a wall of inexperience to hide behind - which if successful would help them

this whole thought process assumes that town acts rationally, which they don't

that said, you're pretty obv!town you're frustration, but continued explanations for that joke about NMSA's name grows with each time you're asked to explain, and not in a "im being properly scum read for a stupid reason" kind of way

[u r a person 2]

I'm like a third through this game but there are two scum in BB, Skitter, CB, and Salami

so i think this is gonna be a win

[u r a person 2]

The only may anyone can 100% know who the scum are on day if if they themselves are scum

Precisely. This is a newbie game. Salami is either an experienced player pretending to be a newbie (lynch all liars) https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _All_Liars, or he's an over-confident, inexperienced player. If the latter is true we should not be swayed by his untrained eye no matter how confident he appears.

Something doesn't feel right with Salami and I'm willing to put off suspicion on Elements until we get Salami figured out. If he's town, he'll leave a nice detailed explanation behind to tell us why we should lynch Elements next.

gosh tho this does feel like tmi

the town stuff feels further outside of a scum range than the scummy stuff feels outside of a town range so im pretty confident you are town, but it is discomforting to be pinged both ways
you might be scary with some games under your belt

[u r a person 2]

Looking back at what has happened, Salami is probably just overconfident, but I'm leaning a bit scummy on him. I'll wait for TTTT to give his reasons before I vote though.

i understand this vibe. I had a similar thought, but I don't really think "he's omgusing me because I know he's scum" is outside of a newb scum range

play like you're invincible, amirite?

[u r a person 2]

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

what was this in response to?

this post is the weirdest thing ever
what does it mean?

[u r a person 2]

He has a hard on for me because I know he is scum

Why thank you Elements, I actually agreed with several of your posts on the last page

ummmmmmmm

ummmmmmmm

oops, meant to say

scummmmmmm

[u r a person 2]

Ever? I can think of much weirder things. I can't remember what I was replying to, but I had edited the post before submitting it and didn't catch that my thought wasn't following.

yeah fine, but what was it in response to

[u r a person 2]

This is not a useful statement. It's basically saying "woah don't lynch me too fast, you wouldn't want to lynch town you know?"

Spoiler: spoiled for space

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

Your logic is all over the place and makes no sense

I just don't feel that we have enough information to work with. A lynch (any lynch) would start to provide some context for what we've been saying and the cases we've been trying to build.

That's wrong though, while a lynch is usually preferable to no lynch for town they can be very harmful if chosen unwisely, we can't just pick

any

lynch. We have to figure out which is the scum

Is this in the wiki or something? I don't know why you think this. If this is your second game ever, you should be feeling the game out like the rest of us. And if this is actually your second game ever and you're that intuitive and confident in your moves and those moves are correct, then you probably shouldn't be in a newbie game.

Yeah it's in the Wiki. I feeling the game out and changing my views as new information comes out. I trust my intuition but of course, it can be wrong like any other player. I'm a bit tired about my experience as my player being questioned so can you please drop it? This is my second game.

[u r a person 2]

Yeah, on second thought, let's hold off on l1 under tall1s' replacement starts posting.

@MJL even more reason not to lynch early. If we lynch someone now we learn nothing about tall1s' slot. We effectively go into day two with the addition of a new player.

Yeah, you're right UNVOTE: Elements

hold up
You were the only vote on elements
So why unvote? He was at no risk of being lynched
This is super lamist

[u r a person 2]

could you do a small rundown on everyone a bit like i did?

Here it is as of now:

1. MaryJoLisa2 – I’m town.
2. Elements – Town
3. NotMySpamAccount – Town
4. TTTT (SE) – He’s not trying to confuse anything. He has concerns and he’s trying to give his reasoning for things.
5. Salami – I need to see more, but I can see both scum and town with him. He’s at least active and searching, so that’s going to push me over into a slight town lean.
6. Skitter – Not enough to go on.
7. Tall1s – Nothing to go on.
8. Cbynumber – Laying low, seems kinda scummy to me.
9. BBmolla (SE) – Scum lean. No actual scum hunting and limited interactions with everyone else. The salami wagon was garbage comment in #161 with no follow-up doesn’t sit well with me.

compare this to my read list rn lol uncanny

town
me, mary, elements, NMSA, TTTT
not town: Salami, Skitter, CB, BB

[u r a person 2]

@BB How is this town? And how is it SO town that you're frustrated others don't see it?

Spoiler: spoiled for space

You're misreading me. That's not what I'm saying.

Look at it from the perspective that Salami is scum (which we do not know). IF Salami is scum and BBmolla is his scum partner, then we will be able to see in retrospect (after the game) that BBmolla was removing the wagon from his scum partner. If Salami is town and BBmolla is scum, then BBmolla's effort to move the wagon off Salami doesn't make sense because he had an easy mislynch all lined up for himself when he logged in.

If we were to lynch Salami and Salami flipped scum, then we might reasonably look to BBmolla who moved the wagon off Salami, but that still doesn't mean that BBmolla is scum. He might have just been town trying to latch onto what would be for him a more logical target.

If you decide to lynch me and I flip green (and I will), then I would start looking much more carefully at Salami and BBmolla. Salami for the reasons I stated in previous posts (his play doesn't seem newbish), and BBmolla for possibly (but not certainly) protecting a scum partner.

BBmolla didn't move the wagon off me, he was originally voting for cbynumber and then voted for you. Your reasoning is becoming really stupid and longwinded, I'm town so it's impossible for BB and myself to be a scumteam and it's premature for you to speculate on partners until one of the scum has actually been lynched.

I believe the lynch occurs when 5 players vote for the same person, up until 10 days. After 10 days, majority rules.

after 10 days, no lynch.
It is much more beneficial for town to keep the day going for as long as sensibly possible so there are lots of interactions to analyse and longer for scum to slip up

I think we should keep talking until Tall1s is replaced and then do a lynch. Even if it's a mislynch, we'll have gathered some useful evidence to work with.

Sounds like you already know I'm going to flip town.

like come on this shit is town

[u r a person 2]

tending town: salami, nmsa, cbynumber

town reads on salami and cb why?

[u r a person 2]

Early reads...

cby
Elements
MaryJo
are all town
town lean on BB

scum are probably here:
Salami
Skitter
NotMy
Tallis

you town read CB too, eh? I'll go back and reread the iso after I get through the game

but why?

[u r a person 2]

Upon revisiting Salami and Skitter's ISO with a fresh mind, I can see the town vibes picked up by BBmolla from salami.

My intuition is that Salami is scum, but my evidence is lacking and the more I consider it, the better a case I can make for him being town.

Three people on one page follow the same progression on salami.

Salami has been pretty scummy. I wonder what caused this

[u r a person 2]

Dick Richards replaces Tall1s.

Now

that's

a name.

sorry to disappoint

[u r a person 2]

MaryJo if you are town
and I think you prob are
can you stop acting scummy plz
thx

lolololol
this is me rn

[u r a person 2]

No. I very probably cannot stop doing things that are perceived as scummy because too many people have already developed tunnel vision. I think these day phases are so long that they're destructive to town and give scum an advantage by allowing them to work in tandem behind the scenes creating havoc and confusion.

I might be biased because I just got done with a game where town got a hard scum read on them for playing agressively, and then basically followed the same pattern of
"it's okay if you lynch me just get scum next"
and
"Everything I say will be scum read"

and then we lynched him anyway

this stuff comes from town way more than from scum - especially new players

[u r a person 2]

@Salami - plz give updated reads

TTTT: Well I'm getting increasingly scummy vibes from you, you hopped onto my wagon, said you'd explain later then didn't which tends to be a scumtell from games I've seen.
BBmolla: He prefers brevity but I don't get much particular scum vibes from him. #282, #18 and #178 feel like town posts to me.
NotMySpamAccount: My instincts are saying VI for the most part but I think we should take a closer look at him tomorrow.
MaryJoLisa: A lot of her posts are annoying and anti-town but my instincts are telling me she is town, particularly from the reaction to the wagon.
Elements: I'm still not 100% sure about him but I think he has been pushing the game in the right direction
skitter30: Same as before really I TR her and think she is making good observations, #267 is a very town post
cbynumber: #129 and #257 are good posts, not much else to go on
Dick Richards: This slot hasn't posted yet so completely null.

Am I really the only person who thinks these read lists are fabricated?

[u r a person 2]

other than...
1) skitter is more null to a scum-lean for me
and
2) I'm town
I like Salami's reads

his reads boil down to a poe of you, me, and cb
you town read cb, you must town read yourself
??

[u r a person 2]

I'm PoE'd down to voting here:
Skitter
NotMy
Dick Richards (Tallis)

damn i was excited to town bloc with you

we'll get there in the end

[u r a person 2]

uh i'm apparently partners with you because i've criticized you
and also with spam, because i'm defending him

but i'm also avoiding critcizing town!spam and town!salami, which is scummy of me, especially in contrast of criticizing partner!elements

it's not fence-sitting, it's finding all of my actions scummy in a way that is not internally consistent

you don't find scum to be more internally consistent than town? scum works on it. town is jumping back and forth between theories and paranoia

[u r a person 2]

Gosh, this is a really townie post, and it makes a really good point

If you're right, this means that scum!NMSA is proficient enough to make a lamist post and then fake what I still consider an ideal second post, and then active lurks the day away. This is reasonable

the other explanation is that town!NMSA skimmed the thread and the wiki for like 5 minutes and came back and made a great post after absorbing that information. Actually, this seems a lot less likely in retrospect

Spoiler:

Since the heat died down from his initial entrance, NotMySpamAccount has done nothing in the way of attempting to find scum.
What he

has

done is go out of his way to appease everyone. When someone directly asks him a question about the game, you can pretty much expect his response/view to be identical to whoever is asking him the question.
For example:

@Notmyspamaccount, what's your take on everything so far?

Not sure, still thinking about it. MJL definitely still seems scummy, I get what you mean with this:

You can put me at L-1. It's just a game. When I'm lynched, you'll learn more information.

your ok-ness with being lynched is the only thing that i find townie from you tbh

How is it townie?

Aftet playing a lot of games, i've found that scum tend to be more survivalistic jn the face of getting lynched - both alignments can win after death, but one scum getting lynched makes scum wincon that much harder given that it leaves fewer scum alive to do the job. Scum, when about to be lynched, tend to get very survivalistic in trying to talk their eay out of it. Maryjolisa is *not* at all survivalistic rn; she's accepted her lynch and is fine with it.

Occasionally, scum who know that being survivalistic tends to be read as a scumtell will try to show that they're fine with being lynched so that people will townread them since they're doing the opposite of ehat scum normally do. Maryjo has almost wrapped around to this side of things and is so fine with it that it's almost lamist and put-upon and over the top and something thay she's saying to get people off her back. I can't tell rn if her acquiesce for her lynch is natural or lamist; it's townie in a surface-level kinda way but

it feels almost fake if that makes sense

Ok that makes sense.
It does feel fake to me, I think it has to do with just how quickly Maryjo gave up after getting called out. I mean, she didn't even try to pretend like that scumslip wasn't intentional.

That kinda fleshes out what I was starting to think about her reaction, just total apathy towards her own imminent death.

^ I'm asking for views on the game so far, all I get back is a deferral to my view on MaryJo I was pushing at the time. So, he's trying to validate me and my own reasons without having to fabricate any of his own.

So instead, I ask him for views on players I

haven't

provided my own opinions on, in order to get some original thoughts from him rather than my own views parroted back at me (I also do this wondering whether or not he'll give his views on everyone -I mean, he's already giving me views on half the playerlist minus the inactive so as a townie you'd want to take the initiative and put it all out there, right?- or just the 3 I ask for in order to fulfill exactly what I've asked him to do). This is what we get:

While you're pushing MaryJo for some reads, how about providing some of yours?
Specifically, I'm interested in your thoughts on skitter, TTTT and BBmolla.

I'm still not sure what to make of skitter, she hasn't posted much outside of ic help. The lack of solid info is giving me a slight scumlean, but I'm sure the read will develop more soon.
TTTT is a bit scummy, but he says that's his playstyle. After the explanation (finally) of his vote earlier, I'm leaning town, but only slightly. Not sure what it is, but something just doesn't sit right, so he's close to null.
BBmolla appears to be scumhunting, so he's probablly town to me.

Skitter: "hasn't posted much outside of IC help." (there's actually quite a lot that isn't IC stuff from skitter, but because both Elements and MaryJo have been noting skitter's role as ic in their votes, he latches on to that)

TTTT: Is called scummy, town and null. (Not sure what the right thing to say is, Skitter has been angling to set up a tttt lynch day 2 if MaryJo had been lynched today, but as the heat is now off her (MaryJo), he gives a non-specific answer in order to hedge his bets until he finds out what the plan is from his buddy).

BBmolla: Is scumhunting (From a town perspective i.e without knowing anyones alignments but your own; of the three people NSMA is giving reads for BBmolla has objectively done the least scumhunting).

NMSA is -not- invested in finding scum at all, despite being one of the most active users in the game. I think I could find you one instance from his 20-odd posts since page 3 that I could call scumhunting. He

is

invested in hanging around and posting to look active: He's more than happy to entertain us with some DickRichard-posting, just don't ask him to hunt scum.
(I do find it pretty funny that he dipped as soon as I called him out though, which now that I think about is pretty telling if you comparing this to his reaction to being called scummy at the start of the game.)

[u r a person 2]

We are both accusing one another of being murderous liars who stalk innocents in the night. A little courtesy is called for to maintain objectivity. This is, after all, just a game.

<3<3<3<3<3

[u r a person 2]

lmao

what do you even want to know, I think the two current wagons are on the scummiest players

then aren't you concerned that the two wagons are on those players?
this town isn't THAT cohesive

[u r a person 2]

Also NMSA vanishing is only solidifying my read on him.

that's a bad reason
real life is a thing
you made such good argument before. stick with it.

[u r a person 2]

i elaborated on that later, but no, i don't get the vibe that she's being paranoid and jumping back and forth between different theories; i don't think she really believes much of anything she's saying honestly

she's coming up with a lot of possibilities for what scum!me's agenda is or who i may be partnered with but there's like no ... convicntion behind any of it. there's no progression from one stance ot the next, nothing really prompting any of these changes. i don't see a coherent thought process really threading through her iso.

it's a list of possibilities of for what scum!me might be doing but her thoughts don't really track consistently across her posts - if i'm scum with elemetns i don't seriously believe she thinks i might also be scum with spam instead; the two dont' make sense together and it just doesn't seem like a real thought: there's no progression to get from a to b and and there's no opinion on which one is more likely.

like if she really thinks i'm scum with elements i'd expect to see a thought process like: oh wait actually after reading post X i'm not sure how likely that pairing is, maybe skitter/spam makes more sense; and after that thinking skitter/spam is a thing.

i just don't see that with her. i don't see how her thought process is evolving or why. her conclusions just change but there isn't like a thought process i can follow to explain it. overall i don't get how she's approaching this game or where her thoughts are coming from.

pedit: this is for a couple of posts up

Yeah, I read your follow up posts. You stick to your guns, and I like that (personality-wise, not alignment). I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this for now.

[u r a person 2]

I'm all caught up and I think today's lynch should be on salami. If not on salami, then on BB or Skitter

I'm not sure what I'm doing with NMSA and CB right now but I don't want to lynch inside of them today.

but the rest of you are town I'm pretty sure

i need to find a vote count

[u r a person 2]

That wagon on skitter isn't bad. The only person on it I'm wary of is CB

and that's because he has a better case for NMSA than he does for skitter but voted skitter

and skitter is a more experienced player who would definitely be better for town to have around

and hmmm

p.edit <3 NSG

[u r a person 2]

this is why i try to join pretty much every game nsg mods

[u r a person 2]

and skitter is a more experienced player who would definitely be better for town to have around

wow i didn't mean for this to come off so harsh. sorry mate, hope this doesn't stop us from becoming friends <3

[u r a person 2]

i don't want to get too deep into associations but NMSA + CB makes a lot of sense given the vote count and the gamestate and the rest of my reads

[u r a person 2]

so do a bunch of other teams tho.

Salami, BB, NMSA are my preferred lynches in order for today. These don't line up exactly with my reads because the length of time these two wagons have existed without change + my paranoia of nmsa and cb make me want to hold off on skitter right now

VOTE: salami
i can't believe this doesn't have more interest.
Can my town reads please go back and read salami's iso? or my posts on his slot?

[u r a person 2]

@MaryJ can you give me a quick tiered read list, please? no explanations required

[u r a person 2]

Welp, that's possible.
I'd appreciate answers to my questions

[u r a person 2]

that's the price of great weather year round, eh? =P I put it all in one post for you here for ease of use

@BB How is this town? And how is it SO town that you're frustrated others don't see it?

Spoiler: spoiled for space

You're misreading me. That's not what I'm saying.

Look at it from the perspective that Salami is scum (which we do not know). IF Salami is scum and BBmolla is his scum partner, then we will be able to see in retrospect (after the game) that BBmolla was removing the wagon from his scum partner. If Salami is town and BBmolla is scum, then BBmolla's effort to move the wagon off Salami doesn't make sense because he had an easy mislynch all lined up for himself when he logged in.

If we were to lynch Salami and Salami flipped scum, then we might reasonably look to BBmolla who moved the wagon off Salami, but that still doesn't mean that BBmolla is scum. He might have just been town trying to latch onto what would be for him a more logical target.

If you decide to lynch me and I flip green (and I will), then I would start looking much more carefully at Salami and BBmolla. Salami for the reasons I stated in previous posts (his play doesn't seem newbish), and BBmolla for possibly (but not certainly) protecting a scum partner.

BBmolla didn't move the wagon off me, he was originally voting for cbynumber and then voted for you. Your reasoning is becoming really stupid and longwinded, I'm town so it's impossible for BB and myself to be a scumteam and it's premature for you to speculate on partners until one of the scum has actually been lynched.

I believe the lynch occurs when 5 players vote for the same person, up until 10 days. After 10 days, majority rules.

after 10 days, no lynch.
It is much more beneficial for town to keep the day going for as long as sensibly possible so there are lots of interactions to analyse and longer for scum to slip up

I think we should keep talking until Tall1s is replaced and then do a lynch. Even if it's a mislynch, we'll have gathered some useful evidence to work with.

Sounds like you already know I'm going to flip town.

like come on this shit is town

lmao

what do you even want to know, I think the two current wagons are on the scummiest players

then aren't you concerned that the two wagons are on those players?
this town isn't THAT cohesive

[u r a person 2]

sweet come join me on salami

[u r a person 2]

sweet come join me on salami

Well hold on there, partner. You may have come in here all:

http://www.fanboy.com/wp-content/upload ... ranger.png

But I've still got to process what you've said, and I have a prior obligation to Skitter.

(Okay, I give up. If not with img tags, how do you get pictures to embed in a post?)

=(
okay, well I'll be here if you decide you want to vote your top scum read with your top town read ;p

[u r a person 2]

so do a bunch of other teams tho.

Salami, BB, NMSA are my preferred lynches in order for today. These don't line up exactly with my reads because the length of time these two wagons have existed without change + my paranoia of nmsa and cb make me want to hold off on skitter right now

VOTE: salami
i can't believe this doesn't have more interest.
Can my town reads please go back and read salami's iso? or my posts on his slot?

I don't get why you think BB is scum

-PoE
-Shows little concern over his scum solve becoming the two top wagons without being the cause of that change himself. It's one thing if a strong presence slot pushes the gamestate to where he wants it, but if you know that you're not doing anything to further that agenda, and that agenda is occurring anyway - in this case to not one but both of your scum reads - doesn't that make you paranoid?

And that bit about "Sounds like you already know I'm going to flip town." is not outside of anyone's scum range??

What about this slot am I supposed to see as town?

[u r a person 2]

his entrance is awkward in the newb scum sort of way - and i get that not many people put stock in openings, but I do.
His lists look fabricated
And he tried to pass that off as being in the wiki and I'm sure you could find something in the wiki saying "it's better to lynch scum than town" but it's a paternalistic post that aims to chide people into slowing their roll on scum reading him which he passes off as sage wisdom of the wiki elders

Spoiler: a sampling of scummy salami posts for bbmolla

Hey's what's up gang, sorry for the late entrance but I wasn't online yesterday so didn't know the game started.

NotMySpamAccount: Lynch-bait. If he really was an experienced player I doubt he would be stupid enough to make a first post drawing attention to himself like that, my gut is telling me he is genuine.
Elements: I think him throwing shade on Spam for his username was BS and opportunistic.
MaryJoLisa2: Don't vote for Tall1s it's a very bad lynch that gives almost no info to the town. The slot hasn't posted and will be replaced soon, leave it until then.
TTTT: He is trying to pocket MaryJo
skitter30: Agree with most of his points so far.

The others haven't posted enough for me to have any opinion

VOTE: Elements this guy is gonna flip scum

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

Your logic is all over the place and makes no sense

I just don't feel that we have enough information to work with. A lynch (any lynch) would start to provide some context for what we've been saying and the cases we've been trying to build.

That's wrong though, while a lynch is usually preferable to no lynch for town they can be very harmful if chosen unwisely, we can't just pick

any

lynch. We have to figure out which is the scum

Is this in the wiki or something? I don't know why you think this. If this is your second game ever, you should be feeling the game out like the rest of us. And if this is actually your second game ever and you're that intuitive and confident in your moves and those moves are correct, then you probably shouldn't be in a newbie game.

Yeah it's in the Wiki. I feeling the game out and changing my views as new information comes out. I trust my intuition but of course, it can be wrong like any other player. I'm a bit tired about my experience as my player being questioned so can you please drop it? This is my second game.

@Salami - plz give updated reads

TTTT: Well I'm getting increasingly scummy vibes from you, you hopped onto my wagon, said you'd explain later then didn't which tends to be a scumtell from games I've seen.
BBmolla: He prefers brevity but I don't get much particular scum vibes from him. #282, #18 and #178 feel like town posts to me.
NotMySpamAccount: My instincts are saying VI for the most part but I think we should take a closer look at him tomorrow.
MaryJoLisa: A lot of her posts are annoying and anti-town but my instincts are telling me she is town, particularly from the reaction to the wagon.
Elements: I'm still not 100% sure about him but I think he has been pushing the game in the right direction
skitter30: Same as before really I TR her and think she is making good observations, #267 is a very town post
cbynumber: #129 and #257 are good posts, not much else to go on
Dick Richards: This slot hasn't posted yet so completely null.

[u r a person 2]

Urap, I'd been wondering why you were asking me these questions but I think I found the root of it in post #9. Was that it?

yeah that was part of it
and then later I wanted to know because you transitioned out of having a lot of questions into a very confident demeanor.

I think I made a post about it early in my iso

[u r a person 2]

Just going to put these two posts here with a question mark

Spoiler: U2 quotes spoiled for space by U2

I'm all caught up and I think today's lynch should be on salami. If not on salami, then on BB or Skitter

I'm not sure what I'm doing with NMSA and CB right now but I don't want to lynch inside of them today.

but the rest of you are town I'm pretty sure

i need to find a vote count

so do a bunch of other teams tho.

Salami, BB, NMSA are my preferred lynches in order for today. These don't line up exactly with my reads because the length of time these two wagons have existed without change + my paranoia of nmsa and cb make me want to hold off on skitter right now

VOTE: salami

i can't believe this doesn't have more interest.
Can my town reads please go back and read salami's iso? or my posts on his slot?

?

The difference is that I found a vote count and factored that in with my reads. At the end of the first post, I say I'm off to find a vote count ;P Reasoning for how the vc affected my reads in the second post

[u r a person 2]

@MJ

If you're really town, you'll need to build a convincing case as to why we should dismiss your apparent newbish mistake and account for why you didn't bother to read the rules before playing a game you've never played before.

You went from not knowing whether posting outside the thread was allowable to being assertive and confident quite fast.

or maybe your early questions to skitter were your way of getting control over a game you're new to - that would be neat

I really want to know your experience

[u r a person 2]

I get where you're coming from but that just seems like his playstyle from reading his games. On first glance yeah it seems scummy but he is an experienced player so I don't think he'd be so obvious about it if he really were scum? Maybe I am just overthinking it this game has exhausted me a little.

which games did you read?

@CB what went in to your town read on BB?

[u r a person 2]

@MJ Please explain to me why my case on Salami is good.

Possible starting points:
Why is Salami's opening post awkward?
Why are Salami's read lists bad?

And second,

Are there any parts of Salami's play that you find scummy independent of my read?

[u r a person 2]

he - if you're around could you answer my questions? It doesn't have to be long. a few sentences would probably be more than enough

[u r a person 2]

the tag you're looking for is

post /post

with the []'s of course
I appreciate you dropping that in while you were working on it =)

[u r a person 2]

oh put the post number in between the tags

[u r a person 2]

[ post]650[ /post]
remove the spaces and it will link the post
650

[u r a person 2]

Pocketing as town is my greatest strength ;P

[u r a person 2]

@MJ was there a second half to that response about what you found scummy independent of my read?

[u r a person 2]

roger

[u r a person 2]

Where did your scum read on SPAM come from?

Spoiler:

It won't be happening, and I'm currently feeling more inspired about cybnumber's line of thinking about SPAM. I've made similar mistakes as SPAM in my first game. When you're coming in with a fresh pair of eyes and absolutely no preparation on what moves people might take, you look to others to see what they're thinking and see if you can justify that line of reasoning. That's why I appear to be fence sitting, it's because I'm announcing my train of thought as I'm formulating it.

If SPAM is legit new, then his inability to formulate his own reads may just be because he doesn't know what to look for yet and he's trying to learn from others to see what they see.

Today I'll be considering the possibility that SPAM is being directed behind the scenes to ham it up with that newbie act and I'll reevaluate his actions with that in mind.

I think you're doing just fine, Spam. Don't take any criticism personally and by your next game, you'll have some strategies in place to do some proper scum hunting. For now focus on learning and do your best to contribute what you think you see and try your best to justify why you think it.

It's okay to be wrong, too. You'll learn from your mistakes.

Okay go after Skitter and Elements when I'm gone.

I was sure I saw 4. Well... marching orders still stand. Skitter and Elements. Especially after that incredibly LAMIST post of his about how and when Mafia communicate during a game. Seriously? No call to do that after jumping on Spam for his LAMIST move in the beginning. Look at their interactions. Look at their defense strategy.

@MaryJ can you give me a quick tiered read list, please? no explanations required

After having read your thoughts but without having fully processed what you've said:
Town: You
Town: TTTT
Town: cbynumber
Meh/Town: BBmolla
Meh/Town: Elements
Meh/okay-maybe-possibly-not-scum: Skitter
Meh/Scum: NotMySpamAccount
Scum: Salami

[u r a person 2]

That's L-1 on skitter btw

[u r a person 2]

anybody have insight into Skitter's scum meta?

[u r a person 2]

If you're asking for someone to direct your vote, I will.

But you should make that choice

[u r a person 2]

good because trying to shove off responsibility for your vote is p. scummy

[u r a person 2]

MJL would be an excellent target if we have an investigative role btw

[u r a person 2]

This is just my opinion, but the day might end soon, and I'm starting to get that feeling like I won't be around tomorrow

Investigative checks are best used on the null reads.

You don't want to waste them on people town read by most of the game, and you don't want to use them on slots you're likely to flip early anyway because even if you town read them and prevent the lynch, there was probably a reason they were being scum read in the first place, and no one is really going to listen to their reads
But if you use them on those people in the middle, you can take a lot of uncertainty out of the game AND replace it with a confirmed town that can push their reads

so in this game, fmpov, that's people like MJL, BBmolla, and maybe skitter

[u r a person 2]

how're you feeling about the wagon you're on, elements?

[u r a person 2]

personally, I don't think skitter is being bussed rn
so im not sure who her partner is besides maybe tttt, who i town read

[u r a person 2]

bbmolla potential partner but seems low chance

[u r a person 2]

hey skitter silly question - are you an alt of TW?

[u r a person 2]

If you're town reading bbmolla and TTTT, and you believe skitter is scum, then you might as well be saying that I'm skitter's partner. And if you're not saying that, you should be.

But I'm not scum, so I think you've got an issue somewhere in your reads

And I'm really thinking the problem is town!skitter.

[u r a person 2]

who is the bus?

if there is no bus, who is the scum that's letting skitter get lynched without a fight?

[u r a person 2]

skitter scum does not make sense with this vote count

[u r a person 2]

this vote count feels like a town wagon on town that scum is watching

[u r a person 2]

i have a game with tttt under his name loopdan, and I'm getting a similar vibe.
i also really town read the entire first salami vote, reason tease, and final reveal of slight town that immediately reverted back to a scum read.

he didn't annotate the progression back to scum, and it's super organic

[u r a person 2]

i've also played with elements, and he's unlikely to bus here i think

and MJ is possssible but more times than not she gets off this wagon if it's a bus i gotta believe. so if skitter is being bussed, gotta be you.

but with a push like you made on her and are still making? seems unlikely too

[u r a person 2]

and bbmolla is probably confident enough to make a play solo, but i'd be surprised if an experienced player stays this hands off on a lynch of their partner

less so for tttt since he's on the salami wagon

salami possible partner actually

[u r a person 2]

Then that leaves salami. Why would he choose to push TTTT as scum?

he brought up as part of his push that he was the only one suspecting tttt

vanity wagon and meh reasons hoping to be ignored
?

[u r a person 2]

Yeah, on second thought, let's hold off on l1 under tall1s' replacement starts posting.

@MJL even more reason not to lynch early. If we lynch someone now we learn nothing about tall1s' slot. We effectively go into day two with the addition of a new player.

Yeah, you're right UNVOTE: Elements

hold up
You were the only vote on elements
So why unvote? He was at no risk of being lynched
This is super lamist

@cb did you see this? how is this town? He was the ONLY vote on elements

[u r a person 2]

If you're town reading bbmolla and TTTT, and you believe skitter is scum, then you might as well be saying that I'm skitter's partner. And if you're not saying that, you should be.

But I'm not scum, so I think you've got an issue somewhere in your reads

And I'm really thinking the problem is town!skitter.

great! so now you're caught up to where I was in this post.

what aren't you feeling?

[u r a person 2]

Like, am I just supposed to ignore all of her content in favour of a votecount with no confirmed flips?

That's fair, and I get what you're saying about focusing on Maryj

i'll be honest I'll need help from another on this one.

the walls are a personality thing, right? She said so in this thread and it's super easy to confirm. she makes catchup walls asking tons of questions

she has engaged others, including myself. The difference seems to be that she a) scum reads mj and b) has had to work to get mj to answer questions which has probably increased the ratio of mj to non mj comments a bit

my read of the situation is based on the vote count and the feel/flow of the game >> the above

[u r a person 2]

i'll look again in a bit when im a lil more awake

[u r a person 2]

okay so i reread skitter's iso

and in retrospect she makes a really good point about MJ not seeming to put differing weights on the different world's that she is theoretically weighing.

at minimum it's a good catch. also her progressions on elements, salami, and NMSA all seem townie
and read progressions are often the hardest part for scum


also CB is town

[u r a person 2]

Oh, damn it. I just tried to get you fast tracked through the system, Urap, but security has red-flagged you. As much as I like you, security hasn't yet cleared you to direct my vote. Apparently you "still could be Skitter's lost scum partner" if she's actually scum. Bah. Best to let the system do its thing then.

like what is this?

I'm supposedly her top town read
and salami is supposedly her top scum read
and skitter is supposedly pretty null

[u r a person 2]

make sure to give intent before hammering

also this slot is unfortunately drifting towards a replace out

[u r a person 2]

[4] Salami : u r a person 2 607, TTTT 660, Elements, cbynumber
[2] skitter30 : MaryJoLisa2 289, NotMySpamAccount 661
[1] MaryJoLisa2 : skitter30 411
[1] TTTT : Salami 317

[1] Not Voting : BBmolla 599

pretty sure this is accurate

[u r a person 2]

You're one of 4 non-salami slots in the game not voting for salami at this time, yes.

The purpose of giving intent is to allow

1) people on the wagon to chime in if they have thoughts or want to reevaluate
2) Salami a chance to talk his way out of it and/or claim his role

So channel your inner ent and don't be hasty =)

[u r a person 2]

no that's okay skitter

[u r a person 2]

i would hop on an MJ wagon today

just sayin'

[u r a person 2]

long day phases are great

but mj is right that they can turn counter-productive

but they do that waaay later than you thought they would, MJ

[u r a person 2]

ah, nice job

what do you think mj, is salami flipping scum?

[u r a person 2]

what about you, tttt? If you could do this day all over again, would you wagon mj?

[u r a person 2]

tbh mj narrative post hammer checks out

not saying the slot is town, but this particular interaction seems pretty nai

[u r a person 2]

@skitter
Given: MJ asked if it would be kosher for her to hammer multiple times
Do we think that

MJ was looking for permission to hammer
MJ was looking for an excuse NOT to hammer

[u r a person 2]

I think she'd prob be more aware of the vc on a partner tho

I kind of agree with this, though it could be a personality thing

this would be the second time that she was seemingly unaware of the VC on Salami

[u r a person 2]

It definitely indicates that MJ is not attempting vote count analysis, which isn't necessarily scum indicative, but definitely isn't town indicative

[u r a person 2]

This is just my opinion, but the day might end soon, and I'm starting to get that feeling like I won't be around tomorrow

Investigative checks are best used on the null reads.

You don't want to waste them on people town read by most of the game, and you don't want to use them on slots you're likely to flip early anyway because even if you town read them and prevent the lynch, there was probably a reason they were being scum read in the first place, and no one is really going to listen to their reads
But if you use them on those people in the middle, you can take a lot of uncertainty out of the game AND replace it with a confirmed town that can push their reads

so in this game, fmpov, that's people like MJL, BBmolla, and maybe

skitter

NMSA

bringing this up so people might find it

Also, JK and doctor should both be trying to save people they think might be NK'd. Don't try to use your JK ability for scum hunting this early on. Lock up a townie

[u r a person 2]

Eh this was kinda protracted, doesnt feel fake to me

@maryjo tttt was already on the wagon, he didnt hammer, and were not in twilight

I am not implying that she was faking the reaction

I'm just saying that there is a chance that Person!MJ just doesn't keep up on vote counts that much since this is twice in the same game that she was unaware of where everyone was

[u r a person 2]

@MJ don't feel bad. You'll likely never be tricked like this again ;P

[u r a person 2]

i'm kind of coming around to that position.

BBmolla, Salami scum

with paranoia around NMSA

and a 1 in a 100 scum possibility on CB

p.edit
I am also fine with you hammering

[u r a person 2]

bbmolla feels about as passive around this wagon as he was around the two wagons he liked

which he shouldn't be if, as he says, he get's passive when he thinks things are moving in the right direction.

[u r a person 2]

@MJ don't feel bad. You'll likely never be tricked like this again ;P

I wasn't tricked. I was told by the ic not to do it. I trusted the ic's word because I believed that she was supposed to give me honest answers to help newbies out and I'm trying to play a clean game by the rules and the culture that exists on this forum.

i meant by the fake hammer

[u r a person 2]

This is just my opinion, but the day might end soon, and I'm starting to get that feeling like I won't be around tomorrow

Investigative checks are best used on the null reads.

You don't want to waste them on people town read by most of the game, and you don't want to use them on slots you're likely to flip early anyway because even if you town read them and prevent the lynch, there was probably a reason they were being scum read in the first place, and no one is really going to listen to their reads
But if you use them on those people in the middle, you can take a lot of uncertainty out of the game AND replace it with a confirmed town that can push their reads

so in this game, fmpov, that's people like MJL, BBmolla, and maybe

skitter

NMSA

bringing this up so people might find it

Also, JK and doctor should both be trying to save people they think might be NK'd. Don't try to use your JK ability for scum hunting this early on. Lock up a townie

[u r a person 2]

I left some comments for some of our new player slots throughout my pt and dead thread.

Thanks for the great game, everyone. I had a great time and would play with all of you agian.

[u r a person 2]

that's why it's a team game ;P I hope you stick around, sincerely.

[u r a person 2]

I hadn't considered that. Something to ponder, for sure.

[u r a person 2]

Skitter, I saw that you /in'd for nsg's mini theme and I am stoked to see you there! You seem like good people

[u r a person 2]

Oh hmmmm
I just read the mod thread.

my thoughts: The only people in any game that have any obligation to tell the truth to anybody about anything are the mod and the ic

and even then the ic is only obligated to tell the truth about things like setup, strategy, etc.

Skitter absolutely gave you the forum consensus on quick hammers. The community, in my experience is not good at following this consensus, but she was absolutely truthful in giving the accepted consensus about quick hammering. I also believe that skitter truly believes that consensus to represent correct play. Even people that quick hammer think quick hammering is against the community consensus, I believe.

Further, I don't actually believe anyone was trying to trick you into hammering. I told you that you shouldn't be hasty, and I meant it for all of the reasons skitter said.

And when TTTT fake hammered, that wasn't to trick you into hammering - Why would you vote at all? If you were tricked, we were in twilight. As you pointed out, there is an expectation that the kid gloves will not be on in newbie games. Personally, I think it would be a disservice NOT to play to win, and TTTT's fake hammer was definitely playing to win.

Afterwards, TTTT and I both told you that we thought a hammer was appropriate, and by that time, we both did think a hammer was appropriate.

I'm sorry that you felt betrayed, and maybe we need to do a better job of explaining this somewhere, but I think everyone acted appropriately.

[u r a person 2]

ic intro, adapted from lots of others!

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And here are some helpful tips:

--->

Give "intent to hammer"

when you want to place the final vote on a player. This gives time for that player to give a final plea and to claim their power role, if they have one (or if they are lying scum). If, after that player has posted, you are still sure you want to hammer them, go ahead and place the final vote. It is also common courtesy to declare "L-1" ("1 Vote away from lynch") when you place the penultimate vote on a player.

also, what she told you was fully consistent with the "helpful tips" section of her IC post, clearly delineating this advice from the game rules posted by the mod. This is a pretty standard IC post, and I *think* the ic posts even have to be approved? maybe that's not true

[u r a person 2]

no they don't, that one happens to be a bit of a common one that i want to say a player named irrelephant put together that i stole and tweaked a bit

either way, I stand by my belief that skitter's play was fully appropriate, and tbh, I don't know that I would have changed a word of her explanations regarding this topic

[u r a person 2]

There are no nuances to policies. There are rules, listed at the start of each game. Those are hard rules. There is advice, which is good advice, listed in the IC post and labeled as such, and given by the IC when asked for - as was done this game. And then there is the way people play, which is entirely up to each individual player.