Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
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To be clearer: why is your reaction not a) asking Llamarble what he's talking about, or b) voting me to put extra pressure on me?
Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Hi! Why did you vote for northIn post 19, Marquis wrote:Someone ttmDiscourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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If you believed he believed he'd really found something why didn't you ask him what it was so you could assess how genuine his reasoning was?In post 20, northsidegal wrote:i didn't think there was any ambiguity as to what he was talking about. it seems pretty obvious to me that he's saying that you're already obvscum, and i think entering the thread like that with a forced read is a weak entrance. my vote was already on you, for one, and for two i thought a better place for pressure was on llamarble.
i'm not really sure what your issue here is.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Okay, and the scum motivation behind him lying about having found something is what?In post 23, northsidegal wrote:i didn't believe that he really found something, hence my saying that his entrance was forced (kind of like how your questions feel).Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Did you think that no one would question him or did you think that he was banking on never having to explain himself? I'm not really following.In post 28, northsidegal wrote:he forces a read to a) pretend like he's generating useful content and b) stagnate things by ending rvs early. moreover, i think in general a forced entrance like that is just more likely to come from self-conscious scum than from town. that's not to say that i believe that he's necessarily scum or that any of those were necessarily his strategy – just that i think it's likely enough to warrant moving my vote while we're still in rvs.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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My team got me hyped for the start -> I went to make a cup of tea before gamestart but it took longer than expected; I thought people would be as hyped as me and I'd miss RVS spam -> got here 15 minutes after game start and no one had postedIn post 32, Llamarble wrote:I'd probably have forced something, but then there were 4 scumtells in a 3 post ISO.
Is that density even beatable? "Honestly this is the first post where's the spam I was pregamethreadwatching for" might do it?
I don't understand what you're saying.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Would you not have believed that explanation? If not, why not?In post 40, northsidegal wrote:
where are you going with this? yeah, he probably would explain himself eventually. i expected the explanation to be "i forced a read to get us out of rvs". none of this factored into my decision in the slightest.In post 34, Postie wrote:Did you think that no one would question him or did you think that he was banking on never having to explain himself? I'm not really following.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Two votes instead of one creates more pressure and more focused pressure.In post 46, northsidegal wrote:what difference does it make between helping him out with his pressure on you and voting him to put pressure on him? there's nothing to say that following him is the "logical" thing to do rather than pressuing him.
I can understand this and along with the stuff you said earlier about believing Llamarble was giving a sort-of "token read" (if that's along the lines of what you were saying?) I canIn post 46, northsidegal wrote:i assumed he didn't have anything because, looking over your posts myself, there really wasn't anything there that could reasonably be interpreted as a scumslip. sure,maybebeing the first to the thread opening could be interpreted that way, but i put more weight into awkward rvses being scum indicative than that tell anyways.kindasee how your reaction could come from town but at the same time
it's just really fucking weird way to react and your actions make a lot more sense from scum than town to me
Explain?In post 46, northsidegal wrote:this is really forced.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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If it helps shed some slight on some of these things, I've been playing a lot of turbos (blitz games) offsite on MU, and the last few games I played on MS went at ridiculous pace (including one that had reached 162 by pages the end of day 1). I saw Team Mafia being hyped up by my team and others, and that the games were large games.In post 47, Llamarble wrote:Honestly is a word probably more used by scum, at least when it looks like that.
And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.
That's probably significant enough for us to prefer a lynch on one of the first-hour posters.
I don't like "where's all the spam" either. Noise is scummy (eventually).
F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.
Hypemention is minor towntell but not enough to avoid lynch.
I didn't like Marquis' first couple posts either; I forgot about that.
I expected spam. There was no spam. It weirded me out.
That's it.
Also RC says northsidegal is obvious town by play and also would have been likely to pick town.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Oh and I was told to tell you that RC told me to tell you that stuff before you asked this.In post 55, northsidegal wrote:postie, what does the rest of your team think about this interaction?Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.
VOTE: Marquis
Also
I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?In post 53, Marquis wrote:
Also bumping thisIn post 42, Marquis wrote:Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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I wasn't sure if people would take RC at his word so asked for links but if people are happy to take RC at his word then please do that. >.<In post 68, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.In post 67, Postie wrote:Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.
I thought that game was a good example to use because I read nsg's ISO and it shows how much she struggles to post the way she's posting here as scum (her thoughts are really superficial as scum); before that I'd never read any games from nsg-scum.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Haven't read the rest of the thread yet but
Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site. Your team members can get stuffed.In post 72, wgeurts wrote:I can understand some suspicion on Postie as some of my team members have already warned me they're jolly good at playing scum, enjoy it, and some already want me to vote her.
Also "team members" plural? The only who should remember that game apart from you is Espe.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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That was my first scum game, yes.In post 172, LicketyQuickety wrote:I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506
Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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You could have askedIn post 149, Llamarble wrote:I don't know how good at scum Postie is. She has mostly towntells at this point, but when I try to meta her I keep reading GD threads.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=70536
^ Last one I played. I did okay at first but then as soon as people started putting pressure on me I shut down and became a coasty postie and eventually replaced out. It's the one I menioned earlier so I don't expect you to read the whole thing but feel free to skim my ISO or whatever.
Then there are these from 2016:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66865
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67718
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65639
I wish I had more to show you from 2017 or something but I haven't played in a while. I feel like I had more than that in 2016 too but I can't find them right now.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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@wgeurts
Coming back to this post again for a second - please tell me who and why, because between this and what I mentioned in 169 I'm not enitrely convinced you aren't bullshitting.In post 72, wgeurts wrote:and some already want me to vote her.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Oh yeah these are all scum games. I have loads of town games I can link you if you want but I figured you'd be more interested in scum games.In post 183, Postie wrote:[snip]Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Hi Eddie
RC would like to know specifically when Mastina said this.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:"Two out of three is all you need, and you should have it, so just lynch Marquis and Postie and we win" - Mastina.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Nsg is locktown to me and teammates fwiw. This is way outside of her scum range and has the RC seal of approval so I won't be voting there today or ever.
Thanks. Follow-up question: has she been around since then?In post 202, EddieFenix wrote:
Early on when this game opened. I plan on getting back with her within our thread to hash out thoughts since the game has further progressed now.In post 193, Postie wrote:Hi Eddie
RC would like to know specifically when Mastina said this.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:"Two out of three is all you need, and you should have it, so just lynch Marquis and Postie and we win" - Mastina.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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VOTE: LicketyQuicketyIn post 199, LicketyQuickety wrote:Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?
Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.
You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Yeah I guess that post doesn't really incite the kind of engagement that would be likely to help me sort you. You've just been really flat and superificial this game which isn't what I'm used to seeing from town!you and idk what to do with that.
Do you have any questions for me? You haven't really engaged with me this game except to ask one easy question about my meta.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Did he give a reason for his reaction? If not, can you ask him? Does he think you've been particularly towny?In post 249, LicketyQuickety wrote:I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Unpopular opinion: I think Gamma's town.
The vote here and the way he questions TSQ's motives in this post and the ones following feels like it comes from a place of genuine frustration at not being understood.In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Okaaaay you're blowing this way out of proportion and I don't like it. I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push. Given that and the fact Something_Smart is telling me not to trust you, I feel comfortable with this.In post 254, Thestatusquo wrote:Ok but why are you voting dunn? Your vote for him is nonsense and there's a lot of scum motivation to park on the lurker who is literally doing nothing, and then make a big show about it as if you had some hyper special read on him and you didn't understand why others didn't. What do you think about the literal anything else thats happened in this game? Why do you think that dunn is the best vote when there is so much going on? Why were you unaware that it wasn't a wagon vote when you've placed your entire sorting efforts in this game into figuring out what happened in that one random early vote?
VOTE: TheStatusQuoDiscourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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If you're asking me to explain why I townread Gamma, I already did. If you're asking why I think the opinion is unpopular, it's because I haven't seen anyone else townread Gamma and there are votes on him. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're asking.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Coaching doesn't make you magically good at playing scum. Especially since my problem with playing scum comes down to being overly self-concious about how I come across, and not strategic errors I can be coached out of making (although I make those too).In post 320, Tchill13 wrote:Also what's the point in not giving postie scum if they're bad at scum but can be coached through the game?
See: this game where I rolled scum with RC and was coached but still failed miserably.
Yes, which is why I said I believe his frustration was coming from the fact he didn't feel understood. I believe he was genuinely frustrated with the way you couldn't understand each other's thoughts (which he then rationalised as you being scum misunderstanding on purpose to make a push on him), and not the fact you were scumreading him.In post 326, Thestatusquo wrote:wouldn't scum also experience genuine frustration at being scumread?Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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You can see the focus here is on explaining how he believes his actions differ to how you presented them - he's saying he thinks you were misrepping him.In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.
In post 262, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Wanna actually address my issues with you rather than say "got our first"? Or do you just want to throw shade?In post 257, Thestatusquo wrote:Alright guys, got our first.
Then he continues to engage you, as a follow-up to his vote. From these comments I get the vibe he's not exactly 100% on his vote and is looking to get more information out of you to develop his read.In post 264, Gamma Emerald wrote:So this is based on how you play then? That's alright but not everyone plays the same, so that's not a perfect method of reading people.
Looks pretty natural to me.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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I think you can also very much see the frustration bleeding through here as he's trying to explain.In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:Iliterallyunvotedthe secondI realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her.I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't justvotepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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So have I - what differentiates it from that for me is the fact he then circles back and asks you questions to develop the read.In post 334, Thestatusquo wrote:I have seen similar emotion from scum who feel they have been caught for the wrong reasons
If he were scum I'd expect him to just frustratedly vote you and then either move on or start shouting about how you're scum without showing any signs of doubt or second thoughts about his conclusion.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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VOTE: EddieFenix
Also can we take a moment to discuss the hot garbage that is EddieFenix's ISO
It's just a bunch of sitting back and saying things from the sidelines or am I missing something hereDiscourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Eddie do you have like
reads
or anything that isn't theory or IIoA
In post 339, EddieFenix wrote:I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .In post 342, EddieFenix wrote:Do you have any opinions on anyone else that could/should be added to the town core, LQ?
I also notice you ask a lot of questions like this but never seem to reach any meaninguful conclusions from the answers you're givenIn post 384, EddieFenix wrote:you! Why is LQ in your null area?! I'm still waiting for that answer.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Talking more to the rest of the thread than Eddie now but
In post 339, EddieFenix wrote:I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .
Like look at this exchangeIn post 340, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Llama has so far been a vary chaotic player. As such, I think those sorts of players are the type you can't get a solid read on right away. That's why I am hesitant to put them in a Town core. It's not even that I SR Ll, it's that I don't feel comfortable giving a solid read on that slot yet, if that makes sense.In post 339, EddieFenix wrote:I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .
You'd think that you'd ask the question Eddie did to try and discern something about Llama or LQ's alignments and a natural follow-up to this exchange would be to consider those things
But instead we get
And yeah you can say well maybe he just wasn't really sure what to think yet and was mulling things over but can you point me to anything resembling a reads progression from himIn post 341, EddieFenix wrote:Completely and utterly logical imo.anywherein the threadDiscourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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I just meant to trim down any nested quotes to the actual quote you're addressingIn post 392, Gamma Emerald wrote:PEdit: Postie sorry but another wall is coming soon, would you mind it if it was spoilered?Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Keychain didn't like the LAMIST here. I'm inclined to agree; both the tone and the unecessary addendum about wanting town MVP are horrible.In post 365, EddieFenix wrote:What sort of moon logic are you on with my wording? Is building a town blockto you? I'd love to hit the mark and just keep on chugging along to lead to victory, because yo, I want those Town MVP points if a tiebreaker is a make or break for being the top team.badDiscourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Okay then you should know that RC is pretty fucking great at town, which seems at odds with you criticising me for referencing my teammates, no?In post 427, Dunnstral wrote:
A lot of games, he's calmed down recently I think, he used to be the person I saw fakeclaiming/hard pushing his read every single game because he was confident on themIn post 321, Postie wrote:Hey Dunn, how many games have you played with RC and what is your general opinion of RC's townplay?
I will explain the relevance of this shortly.
I don't understand the relevance
The fact you dodged giving an opinion on RC's townplay here after I explicitly asked you for one also also has me concerned; it feels like you had suspicions about where I could be going with this and wanted to avoid getting yourself into hot water.
In post 427, Dunnstral wrote:rubs me the wrong way
You seem to be simultaneously saying I'm being scummy and being NAI - which is it, and why?In post 427, Dunnstral wrote:which I felt was towny at first but realized would be happening if she was scum too
1. Are you saying I'm scum for disagreeing with you? If so, please tell me why your opinions are so self-evidently correct that I couldn't possibly see things differently?In post 430, Lycanfire wrote:Postie - I disagree in the entirety of 323. Failing to come to good conclusions makes me think Postie is acting in bad faith. Overall I feel confident in reading Postie.
2. Did you read my follow up posts where I explain my thoughts from that post in more detail? Do they have any affect on your opinion? Why or why not?
3. Why are you confident you can read me?Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: August 10, 2015
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Not taking it for granted is fine, but Dunn specifically called it scummy and voted me for it.In post 447, northsidegal wrote:
postie, if we can't take it for granted that you're town then obviously we can't take it for granted that the opinions of your teammates are coming from a town perspective. am i misunderstanding what you're saying here?In post 446, Postie wrote:Okay then you should know that RC is pretty fucking great at town, which seems at odds with you criticising me for referencing my teammates, no?
The fact you dodged giving an opinion on RC's townplay here after I explicitly asked you for one also also has me concerned; it feels like you had suspicions about where I could be going with this and wanted to avoid getting yourself into hot water.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 5009
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: August 10, 2015
- Pronoun: Any/all
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 5009
- Joined: August 10, 2015
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That makes sense. I'd like to get some of their reads though, because I find it odd that they don't have anything to say. I guess I'm mainly talking about Mulch here, because he's a pretty hyper player. What are his thoughts?
Also from what I remember Creature doesn't usually have much difficulty throwing out a couple reads. Can I get something from them too?Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
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No see the thing about legitimately scumhunting while keeping your conclusion to yourself, Eddie, is that I should still be able to see that you are in fact scumhunting
None of your pushes, your questions,anythingyou've posted has any sense of direction.
Sometimes when a player has made a bunch of posts that amount to absolutely nothing, the answer isn't that they have a ~super secret~ godly thought process behind it all that your feeble mind can't comprehend, it's just that they're scum.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
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How about you give me an answer for this and then afterwards I can actually explain why it's relevant to sorting you.In post 476, LicketyQuickety wrote:most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this gameDiscourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
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If you look at Sauce's ISO long enough they become obvtown. That, or you lose your mind. Whichever comes first.In post 520, ActionDan wrote:I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce. I trust that he does, but I'm baffled and can't respect it. I continue to see nothing of value from that slot, and I find it's voting patterns incomprehensible.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 5009
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Well of course he's going to pull a non sequitur token wallpost out of his ass now that he's being called out. That shouldn't excuse the rest of his content.In post 538, Llamarble wrote:So Eddie, you get one more chance - a clearly articulated readlist will help us understand you better.
Who is scum? Clearly articulate why you believe this. Your reasons need not be perfect; they just need to be your actual ones.
Who is town? Clearly articulate why you believe this. Your reasons need not be perfect; they just need to be your actual ones.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5009
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: August 10, 2015
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Wait a sec... MathDino?In post 520, ActionDan wrote:I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
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Nevermind.In post 543, Postie wrote:
Wait a sec... MathDino?In post 520, ActionDan wrote:I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce.
In post 376, northsidegal wrote:mathdino has some thoughts he would like me to share. first, he says that he's almost positive that sauce is town, having played with him.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
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This antagonistic approach makes sense from the PoV of you seeing us as different alignments - but you aren't voting me and haven't expressed a scumread of me at any point.In post 547, EddieFenix wrote:If you want to spearhead the charge on my lynch, be my guest. I know you're already voting me, so keep coming with the heat and pressure. I don't care at all really.
I wonder why you would see us as opposite alignments without seeing me as scum.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: August 10, 2015
- Pronoun: Any/all
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: August 10, 2015
- Pronoun: Any/all