TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Akarin]

IRL sucks.

Um, I've read the game, I was going to think of something to say after I took a shower but having taken a shower I'm just back to PANIK about irl crap.

Should have time tonight/this weekend if things don't keep doing this thing where they escalate and get worse as soon as I think everything is going to get better for like the 10th time.

Lion King is a good anime.

Nancy, has Norwe played much with you before?

VOTE: Ram

Back later.

[Akarin]

Look at me not being dead!

Yes and pretty sure he’s town here if Dung Beetle #1 & 2 are any indication. Are you going to explain why you’re voting Ram?

However I like you asking me about Norwee. Are you familiar with anyone on the playerlist besides me, FL and Misty?

In terms of actually how they play rather that just ranking by avatar cuteness, I'm a bit familiar with TGP, and technically I've been in a game with Ico for like 5 seconds but not enough to have any advantage reading it.

The vote was for some minor ping and to see if a wagon would start there, no big reason.

Catching up.

[Akarin]

Pine calling DEB suspicious is also real funny.

DEB and Pine are both pretty sus. Can't believe town would lurk out like that.

[Akarin]

I sort of instinctively want to defend Zor because that wagon came up so fast, but I really don't see anything towny from them, and looking at the claim I don't like it. Debating hammering.

[Akarin]

I'm actually much more into the Ram wagon now than I was when I voted.

[Akarin]

Hey Zor, why

didn't

you self-vote after TSQ originally voted you?

[Akarin]

"low hanging fruit" doesn't really seem like the process that townshea would make. See his push on Ramcius. If he's around near the end of the game, make sure to take a good look at him.

What does this mean?

Do you think Ram is lhf, or you?

[Akarin]

for what it's worth, I have reason to believe zoraster's claim is real, even if they are scum.

I buy Arale Norimake being a JOAT and I buy Arale Norimake having a power named Kiin!, but I don't really buy JOAT Arale Norimake having a power named Kiin!

[Akarin]

Akarin literally the only player with less content than me, pushing me as a potentially-viable counterwagon to Zor.

[Akarin]

My flavor is very well know, I would say, I don't think that one is.

You're gunna have to go more in depth for those of us who have never watched an anime in their life.

My flavor is well known I think, but I'm not the main character of my series. Dr. Slump is big in Japan, so I can believe that part of Zor's claim.

I admit I had to look this up, but Kiiiin isn't what Arale says for all her abilities, it's what she says when she goes really fast. She could reasonably have other abilities but I don't really buy that they'd be named that. Don't know how much thought was put into these during setup so I'm not hammering just on that, but it does have the whiff of modifying a safe fakeclaim to me.
https://drslump.fandom.com/wiki/Arale_Norimaki

[Akarin]

akarin is clearly playing the LHF game, unexplained vote on Ramcius, doubles down on Ramcius without a single word on why.
Latest posts are only to justify a potential hammer on Zor.

With all that's said and done in this game, it's a really really bad iso.

I had plenty of time to hammer Zor if I'd been sure I wanted to.

Summary on Ram: I agree with TSQ.

[Akarin]

Why did I sign up for an anime game? I still have no idea what this means.

I think both the ability name and being a JOAT are perfectly plausible for the anime character that Zor claimed, but I have some doubts that they would go together.

i.e. if the ability was going to be named "Kiin" as claimed, I don't know what it would be, but I wouldn't think it would be a JOAT. And if she were to be a JOAT I'd think the ability would be named something else given the character. See the wiki I linked for details.

Dunn thinks I'm overthinking this.

[Akarin]

I'm actually much more into the Ram wagon now than I was when I voted.

Any particular reason why you want my wagon? I mean, you can ask me questions, so only thing you could achieve through wagon that you can't now is my claim, which begs a question, why would you want that?

Well this post right here makes me want it even more.

Vote on you = rolefishing? Really?

[Akarin]

Also it raises the question, it doesn't beg the question.

[Akarin]

akarin

you go afk for 2 whole days, and you just happen to get back in when the wagon on you heats up a bit?
and you just ignore most if not all of the relevant discussion?

By ignore you mean haven't caught up to yet.

[Akarin]

i'll stick to my prime scumread today, and if they flip scum i'll have confirmation about town!nancy

When I flip town Nancy will still be Town though.

[Akarin]

I'm Senku Ishigami, 1-shot Neighborizer (flavored Tactical Intelligence).

This claim makes sense to me, but I'm a

little

surprised by the flavor of the ability too, which makes me think I'm just not vibing with how the ability names were created and maybe Zor's claim is better than I thought. Like I can see how it'd be for "Tactical Intelligence" but the guy re-invented cell phones though, that's like my first thought about him.

[Akarin]

oh no someone save me

i made a vote on someone and therefore i'm gonna die

help

someone

RIP.

Shouldn't have gone rolefishing with that vote. It's not too late though, repeat after me

"This is my town meta!"

[Akarin]

So yeah, my lim pool is basically down to {Ram, DEB, Molla} I think.

There's like no way that's just the team but everyone else seems towny for one reason or another and I'd rather execute one of the ones who isn't and reevaluate later.

[Akarin]

there's literally not a single piece of sense in that post lol

i'm sorry to have to ask this but it's a meme post right?

[Akarin]

And this guy just pops in 2 days later with a naked vote.

It's not naked, it's just time-delayed OMGUS.

We're just 1v1ing at a speed too slow for the rest of you to follow.

[Akarin]

this akarin is just very very different from the akarin I witnessed in Among Us mafia which just finished in terms of engagement with the thread with the game with other players.

I don't know if that's AI or not but its pretty frustrating because I was looking forward to playing with that akarin.

It's just that my life has absolutely gone to hell this past month.

I keep thinking things are getting better and I can actually get into the game and then everything gets worse again.

I'll get to actually playing tomorrow, because

now

I think I've got crap under control, but I hate to jinx it.

[Akarin]

VOTE: BBMolla

[Akarin]

Hey, I'm here.

I get that this won't have much weight, but I will be here a bunch tomorrow and fully catch up and comment on everything.

Sorry about everything.

[Akarin]

I'm exhausted just need to find something substantive to say before I fall asleep in my chair. Anyone around?

[Akarin]

Rawr!

[Akarin]

So I thought we didn't want to elim Zor through the JOAT claim? Did that change or was it not just as much a consensus as I thought it was?

[Akarin]

re: my Molla vote, I had intended to come back the next day and talk about it. It was partially POE, partially to see if a wagon would start there because it was time to change gears, and I also wanted to see how people reacted to it.

Need to look at that in more detail after I sleep but Pine's reaction puts him back into the pool for me.

I also townread people I was already townreading, so that's not helpful.

[Akarin]

But I don't really think anyone jumped on me quite the way I was hoping for. Zor's vote on me feels pretty shruggy.

[Akarin]

also Nancy apparently was a big fan of that post, but ended up voting Zor anyway so *shrug*

I was townreading Nancy for other stuff, not really interested in voting her today, but obviously will reevaluate later.

[Akarin]

You wanted votes on you? Why?

So the idea I had when I made that vote was that, in that gamestate it was about time to change up the wagons. People had been giving me shit about not explaining the Ram vote (although I

did

actually think that was a bit obvious but whatevs.)

So I was thinking it would be a really easy thing for scum to shitpush. Same idea as the deliberately weak argument to see who pushes on it tactic.

[Akarin]

The overreaction and missing the joke (after FL had actually pointed it out) in

lolwut

Akarin literally the only player with less content than me, pushing me as a potentially-viable counterwagon to Zor.

Plus

Based on my earlier reads and the current wagon composition, I consider the Zoraster wagon to be cursed. Akarin was scummy af earlier and I like that wagon comp better.

VOTE: Akarin

Yeah an Akarin vote here feels like a Town endorsement of BB

That's a lot of certainty, and sort of highlighting the naked vote for emphasis.

It's not as strong as what I was looking for, but it

does

ping me.

[Akarin]

Akarin's ISO still reads pretty underwhelming, but these latest posts at least have a townie vibe to them

I mean I've hardly been playing the game all day, what are you expecting?

[Akarin]

Yeah, I think I'd rather any of the other non-me wagons than Zor.

[Akarin]

Like he's not the worst wagon of all time, but it felt like that wagon completely died out, he didn't really do anything, and now it's E-1? Doesn't feel like a scum wagon, feels implacable.

[Akarin]

I don't really have any read on Zor at all, but I don't like the wagon dynamics, and he is a claimed PR.

And my initial reasons for disliking the claim went out the window with the other claim.

[Akarin]

Like I just ISOed him and it's just *shrug*

It feels like it should be a lot more clear for the level of... inevitability it feels like this has.

[Akarin]

Okay, I'm collapsing. More on everything tomorrow.

[Akarin]

I'm not dead, I haven't caught up all the way yet and I'm going to go do something else before coming back to this, but it is weird how y'all are looking at counterwagons like this.

Where was the hard push on Zor toward the end of the day? I didn't see one.

[Akarin]

I like Ram kind of pointing this out actually.

[Akarin]

I mean this post: post 1564, people are spiraling into the dumbest kind of wagon analysis, feels like scum!Ram could just sit on this and see where it goes.

[Akarin]

Sorry I never got back to the thread the other day.

Mid-day is honestly a really bad time for me to post much right now, but I'm gonna do some catching up so I don't get prodded and then more tonight.

Anything in particular anyone wants me to look at? I'll catch up on everything in late tonight either way.

So sorry again about all of this.

[Akarin]

As in I wanted to check in and say something so I don't get prodded again. But in my life right now, this time of day is not a great time of day for me to give the game much time.

I'm reading up trying to find something to comment on that isn't asking a question that someone might have already asked and leaving a bunch of tabs open for later.

Maybe I should just replace out but I was looking forward to this damn game so much and there's no reason to think things won't get better except they keep not getting better.

I get that I've let everyone down but my life has just been a complete disaster for the last like month and I keep thinking it will get better and things keep getting worse.

[Akarin]

Fuck it, I can't do this right now.

[Akarin]

zoraster(5) ~ thestatusquo(193), NorwegianboyEE(183), Mistyx(70), BBMolla(80), Nancy Drew 39(289)

scum is in here, 100% sure, and I'm town reading Nancy, and to a lesser extent Status.

Bbmolla dead.

Norwegian/Mistyx could both be scum here, which explains Mistyx's TvT comment with Nancy/Ico.

@Flavor:

Why are you 100% sure scum must be on-wagon? Zor wagon felt town-apathy-driven to me.

[Akarin]

And there's my content.

I'll try to be back tonight and fully catch up.

If we could try not to make me feel like absolute shit even more during the catchup that'd be nice. I'm in enough of a guilt spiral as is.

[Akarin]

zoraster(5) ~ thestatusquo(193), NorwegianboyEE(183), Mistyx(70), BBMolla(80), Nancy Drew 39(289)

scum is in here, 100% sure

Why are you 100% sure scum must be on-wagon? Zor wagon felt town-apathy-driven to me.

i believe it was meant to feel that way, yes.

This is such a weird response.

[Akarin]

It really really sucks when people treat irl as a scum tactic. Trying to ignore this but honestly it freezes me up in my catchup a lot.

[Akarin]

Fuck off

[Akarin]

This post is interesting because its a really weird progression with her other thoughts on Zor. She was the main proponent of not believing the JOAT claim and shading it and now is acting surprised when people didn't believe it? This seems incredibly fake

If you were reading my ISO, did you not see my comments about TGP's claim?

[Akarin]

Hey, so I just want to say I'm here.

I am going to post today.

My cycle of posting has basically been "ugh, posting around noon is the worst, I'll do this tonight." *something comes up at night* I'm exhausted and think I should stay up to catch up on the game but never catch up, eventually decide I should go to sleep because I'm exhausted and I'll post early in the morning and wake up early. Have trouble sleeping, oversleep. By the time I get to the game again it's like noon.

I don't feel like I've had a good night of sleep in a month.

At the same time I don't really want to replace out.

But I have in the back of my head when the time to post is, keeping thinking I'll do it before then and keep putting it off. Then I panic post around when I need to to not get prodded.

Game gets upsetting, and I say I'll come back to it that night.

Cycle repeats.

I didn't want to even say this because I don't want to deal with it, but I also don't want to get force replaced while I'm catching up or something.

[Akarin]

Please don't even respond to the above, I just want it out there, I'm not making an excuse and don't need the crap about it.

[Akarin]

Please don't even respond to the above, I just want it out there, I'm not making an excuse and don't need the crap about it.

What are your thoughts on the Norwee wagon? As you can obviously tell, I’m not a fan.

I haven't read up on it yet, I'll be sure to address it.

I was townreading Norwee both back on Day 1, and independently the last time I started reading up, but I don't know what the wagon's about.

[Akarin]

So who would you vote for?

As I said, I'm not caught up but most recent pool was (FL, TGP, Pine, Misty, DEB)

That's done just by eliminating townreads on the part of the catchup I already did.

If I had to vote right this second I'd vote Pine based on Day 1, but I'm not going to vote right now.

[Akarin]

Regarding my teammates, I haven't even read all of my own team thread, and there's a lot of discussion about the other games in there.

I'll summarize what they've said since the last time I was up on that when I'm done catching up here.

[Akarin]

Why Misty?

What specifically about Pine’s Day 1?

No reason on Misty, just that I haven't put Misty back in the townbin yet on catchup so still in the pool.

Pine it was the reaction to my joke on D1, and the positioning around my 2nd naked vote.

Also just barely didn't like his post 2283, the conclusions of the NK analysis line up too nicely, and as others had already pointed out, there's Molla's questioning of the specifics of the JOAT claim which kind of negates the point of what he spent al the effort on without considering that.

[Akarin]

What has Ramcius done that’s worth getting a townread for?

It was all at the start of D2, his flip on me there didn't make sense from how scum would come into the day, and he's been a voice of reason against various bits of ridiculousness from town when he

really

didn't need to be based on his earlier play.

[Akarin]

@Nancy scum is 100% in this

So I haven't actually read if FL said anything more about it after the last time, but I still don't agree with this.

The end of D1 wagons were so shruggy, I don't see how reading them as planned scum moves is the likely explaination.

My whole reason for not liking the Zor wagon at the end was the 2 town wagons apathy of the gamestate.

How is this something you're

sure

about to this extent, FL?

[Akarin]

This is interesting. @Akarin, how do you get from pretty much locktowning me to needing to reevaluate?

Because it seemed like Ico was making a good point from something I hadn't taken the time to check and see if it was true. And I like to reevaluate everyone, I don't like locking people in for the whole game based on early stuff.

If it makes you feel better I still have you as pretty much locktown.

[Akarin]

That wagon, if scum wasn't on it, does NOT gain momentum without scum taking action.

Do you think scum were more involved in the initial lead up to Zor's claim, or in the actual end of day pushing it through?

[Akarin]

So why the naked vote on molla? What made him the best choice for you out of those 3?

Bbecause I didn't think DEB would have any value to how people would react to the vote and I'd already been voting Ram earlier. So of the 3, Molla was the obvious choice.

[Akarin]

I think deliberately acting scummy is a really bad strategy because how do you know it isn’t town jumping on you? I find it far more helpful when I get jumped on for something inadvertently NAI because scum love to jump on that in general more often than town but if you actually do something scummy, than I think it’s reversed.

It wasn't deliberately trying to be scummy, it was that it felt like it was time for wagons to shift gears after the Zor claim, I'd just been getting crap about the naked vote, and it seemed like a fun idea to try.

Naked votes aren't actually inherently scummy.

It's useful to look at how people shitpush.

[Akarin]

I mean this post: post 1564, people are spiraling into the dumbest kind of wagon analysis, feels like scum!Ram could just sit on this and see where it goes.

@Akarin why does this post make Ram scum?

I find it odd that you would have such a strong sr on a slot that was a complete null for me D1.

Nancy, I was saying that post made Ram town.

[Akarin]

can these players talk to me about why they would or wouldn't sheep me here?

I wouldn't sheep you because I don't think that's a compelling reason to vote FL. As he said, though, I would of course vote anyone if it were them-or-me.

I don't know how I feel about FL at this point, he needs sorting and he's tough to sort and I wish I had Krazy in my back pocket. But I wouldn't sheep on this kind of thing.

[Akarin]

I believe I have a really strong case on Norwegian, and absolutely nobody really cares about it, so people wondering why I dont care about posting stuff like that constantly, thats why

I promise I'll take a serious look at your Norwee case and look at him in more detail once I'm caught up, but he is a townread for me at this point, and that's after I was basically throwing out my D1 reads.

[Akarin]

Man i’m so glad i signed up to this casual game where people talk or reference anime while playing

At one point I was thinking I'd also talk about all the great new anime this season (it looks like a really good season) but I've seen literally 0 episodes of anything.

[Akarin]

This post is interesting because its a really weird progression with her other thoughts on Zor. She was the main proponent of not believing the JOAT claim and shading it and now is acting surprised when people didn't believe it? This seems incredibly fake

If you were reading my ISO, did you not see my comments about TGP's claim?

I did but I didn't think they were particularly important. I'm open to you explaining why they are in your mind.

Because my reason for disbelieving Zor's claim went out the window when TGP claimed, as I explained at the time.

[Akarin]

no, stop using

AtE

as a

deflection

and

misrepping

what I'm saying about your play here by trying to

pretend

I'm attacking your activity when I'm not. I'm sorry if shitty things are going on in your life but I can't let that stop me from playing the game and its

scummy af

that you

keep trying to make me stop playing the game this way

.

I have serious problems with all of this. Like how the heck are you reading all this into my semi-prod dodges?

[Akarin]

If you were reading my ISO, did you not see my comments about TGP's claim?

Link/quote?

Spoiler: My posts on Zor's claim

for what it's worth, I have reason to believe zoraster's claim is real, even if they are scum.

I buy Arale Norimake being a JOAT and I buy Arale Norimake having a power named Kiin!, but I don't really buy JOAT Arale Norimake having a power named Kiin!

My flavor is very well know, I would say, I don't think that one is.

You're gunna have to go more in depth for those of us who have never watched an anime in their life.

My flavor is well known I think, but I'm not the main character of my series. Dr. Slump is big in Japan, so I can believe that part of Zor's claim.

I admit I had to look this up, but Kiiiin isn't what Arale says for all her abilities, it's what she says when she goes really fast. She could reasonably have other abilities but I don't really buy that they'd be named that. Don't know how much thought was put into these during setup so I'm not hammering just on that, but it does have the whiff of modifying a safe fakeclaim to me.
https://drslump.fandom.com/wiki/Arale_Norimaki

Why did I sign up for an anime game? I still have no idea what this means.

I think both the ability name and being a JOAT are perfectly plausible for the anime character that Zor claimed, but I have some doubts that they would go together.

i.e. if the ability was going to be named "Kiin" as claimed, I don't know what it would be, but I wouldn't think it would be a JOAT. And if she were to be a JOAT I'd think the ability would be named something else given the character. See the wiki I linked for details.

Dunn thinks I'm overthinking this.

Spoiler: The relevant post

I'm Senku Ishigami, 1-shot Neighborizer (flavored Tactical Intelligence).

This claim makes sense to me, but I'm a

little

surprised by the flavor of the ability too, which makes me think I'm just not vibing with how the ability names were created and maybe Zor's claim is better than I thought. Like I can see how it'd be for "Tactical Intelligence" but the guy re-invented cell phones though, that's like my first thought about him.

[Akarin]

@mod is flavour actually relevant to this game?

I actually just looked up all of this stuff and came to the conclusion that flavour is completely irrelevant to both role and alignment. Flavour only slightly made sense with Zor’s role. It didn’t with molla’s, TGP’s or mine for that matter. Molla’s flavour was a thief.

TGP's flavor makes sense, his character basically invented stone-age cell phones. My problem was more with what the name of the ability was. I actually feel like the Commute and Follow parts of Molla's role make sense, although I have no idea where the doctor part comes from.

But yeah, it would be weird if they made flavor alignment-indicative, and so far it seems like everyone are from different anime anyway.

[Akarin]

You trying to minimize that right now is also pinging me like crazy because it's basically gaslighting it was so obvious this was what you were doing.

But that wasn't what I was trying to do at all.

so re:gaslighting: no u

[Akarin]

I really have a problem with all the shaming thrown my way, which is unrelated to reads but is pretty damn related to trying to fucking engage with the game.

[Akarin]

"Oh tgp claim (who I also don't know the alignment of) has allayed all my fears about zor claim" makes a ton of sense as a claim, because as I pointed out in this sentence, she doesn't know the alignment of tgp either so why would that change her opinion?

Because TGP's alignment was

completely irrelevant

A TGP-Zor scumteam wouldn't be trying to pick a 2nd weird name for an ability as some form of defense, and in the more likely case that at least 1 of them is town, then it means town has a weird ability name that I don't think makes sense, which was my whole problem with Zor.

[Akarin]

Are you serious?

Completely, I wanted to just say "no u" but felt like that'd seem too much like a joke when it's not, really.

[Akarin]

Then I think you are either lying or completely lack self awareness.

no u

[Akarin]

I mean literally you're telling me what my obvious motives were for previous posts when that wasn't actually my motive and just repeatedly telling me it obviously was.

[Akarin]

If Akarin is town then it proves both me and FL are most likely in a SvT

What's your reasoning on this, Norwee?

[Akarin]

I am conceding the possibility that you lack self awareness here but reducing every attack against you to "I wish people would stop attacking me for being inactive" when none of them were about that is definitionally misrepresenting the point and you definitely were doing AtE whether or not it was genuine (again, I believe it was!) but what I find scummy is using that AtE repeatedly as a response to people attacking you. Which you did. Undeniably. I don't know how you can say you didn't.

I don't think I've even

addressed

most of the attacks against me.

[Akarin]

You haven't, but you kept trying to push them away by saying "man I wish people would stop attacking me for IRL stuff" from my POV. Even if you don't think thats what you were trying to do its completely bonkers to me that you don't even think thats a reasonable way to interpret them, especially when you respond to people clarifying that they are explicitly not attacking you for OOG stuff by telling them to fuck off.

It didn't come across that you weren't attacking me for OOG stuff, it came across as more of you doing exactly what was bothering me.

And I didn't say you couldn't think that, I get it, I really do. But that's a world of difference from you accusing me of gaslightlightly you.

And the self-awareness thing is pretty rich when you inform me over and over of my own motives and try to convince me I'm doing shit I'm not doing.

Which is not the same as you finding me scummy, which is fine and not what I had an issue with in itself.

[Akarin]

Like the last thing I ever want to do is attack someone for having problems IRL or with mental health when I suffer from clinical anxiety and depression myself and have at times had those things manifest in mafia games in awful ways but at the same time I can't just let someone who I think is scum not interact with the thread for two whole days without trying to push them so it felt like you were deliberately trying to play on my emotions there.

That sucks. I didn't know about your own problems, but yeah those really suck. I'd never try to play up to those emotions as either alignment, that feels really awful and shitty to me. But I also didn't know that about you. I thought you were just being an ass.

[Akarin]

Hey Norwee:

I am conceding the possibility that you lack self awareness here but reducing every attack against you to "I wish people would stop attacking me for being inactive" when none of them were about that is definitionally misrepresenting the point and you definitely were doing AtE whether or not it was genuine (again, I believe it was!) but what I find scummy is using that AtE repeatedly as a response to people attacking you. Which you did. Undeniably. I don't know how you can say you didn't.

I don't think I've even

addressed

most of the attacks against me.

[Akarin]

Disregard the above.

Hey Norwee

If Akarin is town then it proves both me and FL are most likely in a SvT

What's your reasoning on this, Norwee?

[Akarin]

I've described my reasonings extensively earlier. I think FL could just be a tunneling idiot at this point.

Yeah, seems you don't believe this anymore, right?

But at the time, what was the thought process there? Not why you thought FL was scum, but why town!me should indicate to everyone that you-FL was SvT rather than TvT?

Because I didn't actually see that explanation around when you said it, although not all the way caught up yet.

[Akarin]

Ico is like my #1 town read right now.

[Akarin]

Yeah, I'm now officially all caught up and I don't actually see a response to the town!Akarin implies SvT FL-Norwee logic.

[Akarin]

It's a boring question that's why.

It's not boring, it's a big deal to me trying to understand your thought process.

[Akarin]

VOTE: TGP

[Akarin]

I killed DEB

[Akarin]

I'm Kakashi Hatake from Naruto, my power is Chidori. I'm a Novice 1-shot Vig.

[Akarin]

DEB is that kinda slot that's impossible to sort unless you flip em.

Yeah, I debated killing Pine or Misty, but DEB is really the slot that, even though I didn't have a scum read, I thought would make the game most solvable. It was also weirding me and Dunn out that no one had voted for DEB other than Ico off mostly a joke.

I've been trying to come up with a way to crumb this, but was worried about being cc'd, so figured I'd just claim it outright.

[Akarin]

I mean, I'm a ninja and my power is an attack name that lets me gather lightning around my hand and kill people. And I haven't actually seen Naruto, but based on the wiki I learned this power later on, not something I always had.

It fit really well I thought.

[Akarin]

So there was another vote on DEB, but it wasn't in the VCs.

Spoiler: This section of game doesn't look great for FL

Frankly, I forgot DEB was in this game.

VOTE: DEB

TGP, DEB, Status is an interesting way too early solve.

Frankly, I forgot DEB was in this game.

VOTE: DEB

Just when you think I've disappeared, I strike again!!

Beep Bop Adoodledoo
I Choose You
VOTE: Nancy Drew

Alright.

VOTE: Zoraster

Noting DEB happened to come in right after I voted them, though.

[Akarin]

So every wagon that's gotten more than 2 votes other than Norwee is conf town (if you believe me)

[Akarin]

This is maybe the most interesting part of DEB's ISO, more for the game around it.

Mystyx, Norwee, Nancy

Norwee and Nancy jump on DEB for this, they actually both vote him.

Misty makes this post

reserving judgement on DEB for the time being

TSQ, can you walk me through why your read on Ramicus today outweighs the push you had on him yesterday?

Pine announces he's starting fresh as a replacement, FL makes this post

I like DEB's list except for the Nancy one, but he was voting Nancy day 1 too

DEB then says that's his town block, Nancy and Norwee back off, Norwee townreads Nancy for her reaction.

I'm not really sure what to make about this section of the game, but it's fascinating.

[Akarin]

My gut is Pine and Misty but that also seems easy.

[Akarin]

Fundamentally I just don't think Nancy or Norwee jump on DEB like that, and then back off so easily if they're scum with him. I'm pretty happy townblocking both of them off that (I was townreading both of them anyway though.)

[Akarin]

I'd support a massclaim at this point, get it out of the way while we still have a miselim so we can kill a cc.

But then I don't have any skin in the game anymore.

[Akarin]

Hey Nancy, could you ask Math to explain why Misty is obvtown, but hold off on telling us until after whatever Misty's possible play is (and claim if we're gonna massclaim?)

[Akarin]

Yeah, I'm still TRing Ram off the start of D2.

Why does scum!Ram make that 180 on me at the start of day there? My feeling is that Ram comes off as a stubborn person, and people went after me hard on D2, there's no real reason Ram couldn't just stick to his scumread on me at the start of day.

[Akarin]

I was getting paranoid about TSQ, but Dunn thinks I should beware of getting paranoid of TSQ.

Given that, I think my pool is really just: {Misty, FL, Pine}

Right now I'd probably go Misty > Pine > FL but need to look at it more obviously.

[Akarin]

Molla was voting Pine and Ico was the most sus on him but I don’t know how much we glean from that. I’d say Ico kill looks probably the worst for Pine. Math told me that FL!scum would kill me. Math wants me to push FL but I don’t know. Obviously TGP thought that too.

I really thought either you or Ico were the obvious kills, kind of think the question is just what teams would have killed Ico over you or vice versa.

[Akarin]

I'm sad that my 180 on you didn't looked like Inno check soft to you

I mean it did a little bit, but why the hell would I ever say that?

[Akarin]

hmm. At least 1 scum on the TGP, probably both, but not 100%

All this means is that you don't think the scumteam is TSQ-Pine.

[Akarin]

When there have been no real wagons on scum all game (unless we assume scum!Norwee), wagon analysis seems worse than useless.

[Akarin]

I think that's a generally bad take overall in Mafia.

I think this game is like the worst possible case for VCA being meaningful.

You really think there are never town-driven wagons on town? Bet you anything there have been some in this game. And in plenty of others.

[Akarin]

I'm not shading you, but I think your approach is completely misguided.

[Akarin]

I'm not saying don't do it.

But I'm not

not

gonna argue with it when it smells like BS.

[Akarin]

i can do a list of everything i think everyone in this game should improve on, including me.

you lot think im not self aware of where i need to improve? lol

After the game I would actually really appreciate seeing this for me, btw. Other than "post more."

[Akarin]

Nancy, I really think we're in a good position here if we can all just keep relatively cool and focus on the game. I know what FL said feels personal to you, and I

know

it sucks when people say things that really hit a nerve like that. But it's possible he didn't mean it that way, and even if he did, the rest of us don't really deserve a giant quote pyramid if he won't apologize.

So please, I know it bothered you, but please take a step back for a bit. Sometimes it really helps to get some distance from the thread.

[Akarin]

This assumes we count the elimination on you as a "town shot". Which i don’t really.

I doubt Misty is really the top priority NK though. It's a better version of no-eliming on evens.

This is a good idea.

I mean, maybe

now

we all start treating Misty as conftown, but had the claim not been made I don't think Misty was consensus townread for everyone.

[Akarin]

Zor having the Watcher shot isn't nothing for town power.

[Akarin]

Okay, so

Zor JOAT (Watcher, Tracker, Voyeur)
Molla JOAT (Doctor, Commuter, Follower)
TGP 1-shot neighborizer
Akarin Novice 1-shot Vig

Misty Vengeful Town
FL JOAT (Doctor, Commuter [N1], Follower [N2, Norwee=N/A])
Pine Jailkeeper [N1=FL, N2=Ico]

Ico VT
Nancy VT
Ram VT
TSQ VT
Norwee VT

DEB Mafia 1-shot Strongman

[Akarin]

Pine claiming to JK Ico is enjoy WiFoM I'm gonna end up drunk. Ahhhhhh

[Akarin]

So like Nancy and Ico were the obvious NK targets last night, right? Ram as a possibility if they thought he was hinting at a cop inno on me?

Assuming they didn't see that, do they use 1-shot strongman on N2? TSQ would be an okay shot if he's town.

They've already seen a doctor JOAT flip.

Like last night, I was thinking "hey, as much as it sucks both JOATS died, at least I don't have to risk getting tracked to a vig kill anymore."

Unless they targeted town!FL with something on N1...? Otherwise why would they strongman?

[Akarin]

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer is basically a 1-shot cop, that's a LOT better than a 1-shot Neighborizer

[Akarin]

yeah, if a no kill happened same night as Akarin's vig going through, a follow on akarin would be a hard guilty

Yeah, there's a lot of anti-synergy here. I kind of want both you and Pine to be scum given Misty's claim, but Town just seems too weak in that case?

Unless scum are really weak actually?

[Akarin]

Maybe this is tinfoil, but what if scum are actually weaker here and chose claims to line up to the power level of last year.

Can't shake that thought.

[Akarin]

norwee/nancy/ram/shea are all claimed VTs, right?

Yeah.

[Akarin]

scum!FL is the master of fake claims and I think he probably would have caught that molla crumb, so would scum!FL be onboard with crumbing molla joat kill, then claim 3rd town joat? Like FL would have to be a complete idiot to do that here and I know he’s way too smart to claim 3rd town joat and kill molla. Math is probably freaking out over this but I really think FL’s town here.

Him backing off of Norwee and re-evaluating is also town indicative, I think. I also think FL!scum probably kills me > Ico.

I don't really think this argument holds up.

Scum have every reason to shoot a JOAT, and scum!FL presumably wouldn't have known Molla matched up to him exactly.

On top of that, scum isn't like required to true claim, we haven't announced any town rolecops, a lot of town power was already out in the open, and the follower JOAT was dead (Molla). scum!FL could have claimed whatever, even a 3rd JOAT with non-overlapping abilties.

So the question is

if

he would make a refuge in audacity claim like that or not. But there's no reason at all for him to have avoided killing Molla if he's scum.

Why do you think scum!FL would be more likely to kill you than Ico?

[Akarin]

FL's "I don't care about this game anymore, just kill me" schtick, along with the so-suspicious-it's-towny claim reminds me a lot of scum!Pooky in both the Dance game and the Trust Fall game. I can't shake that feeling.

[Akarin]

My goal is the same as TSQ's here, I don't want people clearing FL for reasons I think are wrong.

And I think I've got a decent shot at being dead tomorrow (because I don't trust the claims.)

[Akarin]

Can I just say, I

really

think we should end our last day with eliminating Misty first and letting her vig the consensus scum read?

Misty is actually a pretty high town read for me at this point, but I initially didn't like her interactions with DEB and I don't want this to be the kind of claim scum can get away with gambitting and then never getting called on.

Maybe it's paranoid, but if we do it last there's no cost and it removes one possible losing scenario.

[Akarin]

But then killing molla? How isn’t that suicide? Like I suppose it’s possible but it’s just such terrible play for him.

Nancy: One of the JOATs had a Watcher, you woludn't want to leave Zor alive as scum under any circumstances. Would you really want to take a risk on a 2nd JOAT being relatively benign?

We aren't assuming scum know the setup, right?

[Akarin]

And my role fits my flavor.

Wondering about this.

Doc, Commuter, Follower

It fits commuter very well, but I don't see the rest of it, esp. Doc, which is the most powerful part.

[Akarin]

I guess I agree that FL was kind of locked into the JOAT claim. I don't think it's that unlikely that we'd go back and look at this after claims if FL was still on the table (and FL was always going to get some attention if still alive at endgame.)

Spoiler: The section of the game after Zor's claim and FL's crumb

for what it's worth, I have reason to believe zoraster's claim is real, even if they are scum.

This pings me strongly as Town, and that makes me breathe a huge sigh of relief. I was really worried there weren't any adults in the room.

@Ico

Why does FL post this as scum.

He's clean.

i dunno

to look slightly better if/when Zor flips town?

i think that actually makes me look worse

wouldn't it be better to give Zor a pass today and see if they survive a day or 2? With a JOAT claim they have a target on their back anyway.

I fully realize how this post looks if Zor were to flip scum but hey i'm not one to hold back

Like, what's better? Potentially killing a scum JOAT, versus risking losing a town JOAT?

You're right.

Potentially killing a scum joat is better.

I'm not actually gung ho about fading Zoraster. Never was.

[Akarin]

I still don't love Zoraster, but he seems to be borderline obsessed with bringing me up, so that could be one reason. I still think there's a chance they're scum.

their big post has a lot of IioA, there's some stuff in there I like, but I don't think it's all that spicy. Let them live for the day, fine.

I'm generally less concerned about DEB because as the game progresses, I don't think I'd ever be able to not read him correctly.

I'm not sure if FL is scum, but if claims weren't in the mix, it would be him, Misty, and Pine for me. And Pine and FL's interactions look

so

bad to me.

And I really think all the reasons people are listing why that can't be true are just incorrect.

But I also want to take the time to look at other things.

[Akarin]

Okay, so I didn't mean for those quotes to end up in the above post, but I didn't like how FL interacted with Zor's wagon post claim as it died down.

[Akarin]

Yeah, I'm done talking about FL for now. I'll be back later and look at something else.

[Akarin]

@FL

Do you think DEB interactions make Norwee look any better or worse?

No need to respond to this right now if you need time to think about it, just eventually please?

[Akarin]

I specifically think that DEB got bussed by his teammates at one point.

Scum does not town read DEB if they are his partner. And Norwegian went back and forth voting DEB, which I think bussing DEB is always going to be on the minds of his partners, even if they dont actually want to go through with it, i can see them saying it, voting there, then moving away, which is exactly what Norwegian did on Day 2.

So I wasn't asking this to lead into attacking you, but that seems like a much better description of your vote on DEB...

[Akarin]

Frankly, I forgot DEB was in this game.

VOTE: DEB

TGP, DEB, Status is an interesting way too early solve.

Frankly, I forgot DEB was in this game.

VOTE: DEB

Just when you think I've disappeared, I strike again!!

Beep Bop Adoodledoo
I Choose You
VOTE: Nancy Drew

Alright.

VOTE: Zoraster

Noting DEB happened to come in right after I voted them, though.

[Akarin]

It was actually really weird how little heat DEB got compared to me, Zor, TGP, hell even Pine.

[Akarin]

Anyway, I'm not voting yet because I don't want to end the day until I have time to look at a bunch of possible team pairs.

We have time, we don't need to stretch it out to deadline, but I really don't want to speedrun the day.

[Akarin]

Norwee: Yeah I'm scumreading Pine, but I can imagine some teams that don't include him. Like it's not my top pick, but right now Ram-FL, for example, doesn't seem totally crazy to me?

I want to think it out.

[Akarin]

I know everyone's character, this is a very shounen heavy game and I watch shounen

Yeah, everyone has flavors from shows I don't really like other than Molla.

[Akarin]

Norwee: right at this moment, without rereading some stuff I think I should reread, I kind of would prefer to eliminate FL before Pine rather than the other way around.

FL's chain misfade narrative and all that gives me some hesitation, like what if it's FL-Ram (for example), Pine is just some weird coincidence, and a Pine townflip is Flavor's ticket to winning.

I know that's kind of tinfoil, but it seems more likely to me than the reverse where it's scum!Pine and town!FL right now.

[Akarin]

I think its both but I think FL is way more likely to be scum if pine is scum and not necessarily the other way around.

So if that's not the team, you think that
scum!Pine-town!Flavor is more likely than town!Pine-scum!Flavor?

Why?

Because that's exactly the debate I'm having, I think I need to reread, but I'm right now coming to the opposite conclusion.

[Akarin]

Is part of the fun for you to see how many people you can get annoyed enough that they rage vote?

[Akarin]

@Akarin - if it wasn't for me, you'd be dead yesterday instead of TGP.

Your vig shot was able to happen because I figured out you were a PR, and protected you because I thought you were a misfade.

And I'm grateful for that, but it's not hugely relevant to my read on you, other than to the extend I think you would or wouldn't do that as scum.

I'm not going to react to you emotionally here, in either direction.

[Akarin]

Like not knowing I was a vig, not knowing I was gonna actually turn it around and be more active today, I'm not sure TGP wasn't the better miselim than me.

TSQ had quite the murderboner for me, and without the claim I doubt that'd have gone away.

[Akarin]

But posts like #3832 do sort of bother me. It feels manipulative.

[Akarin]

Like I don't feel like it's so much scum!TSQ/scum!Ram or whatever manipulating me into voting FL, I feel like it's FL manipulating me into voting FL.

[Akarin]

Hey Ram, could you give me your reasoning for why you think it's Norwee?

And do you disagree with me that DEB interactions actually make Norwee look townier?

Also do you seriously have a strong townread on Pine or is this all related to your plan of using the JK as a cop?

[Akarin]

I can't give this a lot of thought until later tonight, but it's not like the BIGGEST deal.

Just I think I'm dead tonight and wanted to get my thoughts out there and look at other options in case I'm dead and it's not Pine-FL.

We only have the one miselim left.

Btw, Ram, that's sort of my problem with your plan, I think FL-Pine is the most likely scumteam at the moment and even if they aren't, I really have a lot of trouble with eliminating outside them, whoever it is flips town, and then after any kill we want to vote one or the other if today's outside-that-pair elim flips town.

Like I just don't see that the plan gains us anything.

[Akarin]

Everyone seems really convinced on Norwee but the cases, such as they are, on Norwee are just really weak. Especially for the amount of confidence being thrown around.

[Akarin]

Norwegian made sure TGP went through.

Norwegian made sure Zoraster went through.

They are literally just scum here

This as a reading of the previous wagons for one thing.

Ram's treatment of POE with 1 miselim remaining for the other.

The just don't seem like the smoking guns you two are acting as if they are.

[Akarin]

FL, assuming you're town you're gonna doctor me tonight, right?

[Akarin]

I am trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, especially since we obviously don't have 3 scum remaining. I kind of want to actually get a read on what the situation is if it's not the FL-Pine team and get that out there.

But I'm also feeling like dragging my feet too much and driving everyone else insane is worse for the game overall than just voting for Pine or something tonight.

[Akarin]

Ram has been a townread for me since the start of D2, recently I've had this tinfoil theory that the 180 on me was to set up a fake claim, then when it came time to claim he decided claiming a PR was stupid and it was better to claim VT.

It explains why he didn't eat an NK.

But I might just be being paranoid.

I keep thinking that though, because if Pine were telling the truth, why would they use the Strongman shot on Ico instead of Ram or something? Or why not shoot FL? But at least one of the three is obviously telling the truth.

[Akarin]

I mean Misty is valid too, I just wanted to be sure. Pine was saying he wasn't going to play ball and I wasn't sure what was going on.

I kind of think I'm the better one, but I'm obviously biased. Misty is totally valid.

[Akarin]

Actually yeah, please Doctor me, but Misty, chime in if you think that's worse due to the odds/evens thing?

[Akarin]

I'm actually with FL in that I don't think the ungated thing is as much of a smoking gun as it's being made out to be.

I'm also getting closer to just voting Pine for everyone's sanity, at some point keeping enthusiasm is worth more than giving a bit more info for if Misty dies and needs to think about a vig shot.

I find FL's claim more unbelievable, and I can totally imagine this kind of refuge in audacity being a scum idea.

[Akarin]

Okay, so thought experiment, what if Pine flips town?

Teams I'd consider:

Ram-Norwee:

Why the hell does Ram not just push for FL, and then Pine as the 2nd miselim in this case?

FL-Norwee:

FL has done a lot that gets suspicion on him instead of Pine. I don't know if Pine seems

that

inevitable compared to FL, when a Pine flip would be pretty good for FL here. And I'd expect him to push on TSQ or someone a bit more now.

TSQ-Ram:

Not as strong, but same thing, I don't understand why Ram makes a lot of the posts he has.

FL-Ram:

I can totally see this one, explains the NKs pretty well.

These 2 need more thought:

FL-TSQ

TSQ-Norwee

But I actually

do

think I'd be pretty likely to want to kill FL in a Pine townflip scenario.

[Akarin]

So scum that have basically just given up then?

VOTE: Pine

[Akarin]

Did someone put out a memo in the scum PT that insulting me is a good way to manipulate me or something?

[Akarin]

stop playing like butthurt kids who want a seat at the grownups table and are going to throw a fit until you get it. Get a grip, look at evidence, and rationally question things instead of letting your whims drive you.

Like I don't even get where the heck this is coming from other than it seems to be out of FL's recent playbook.

[Akarin]

I want more Lupin III flavors

I should have been Jigen

[Akarin]

You guys are like actively about to lose the game for town, how should we be acting right now?

The play from both of you has made me feel like if it was 50-50 I'd feel super gross letting you win, so...

[Akarin]

And that's a much bigger "if" than I think is really warranted

[Akarin]

It's a 1-shot of BP difference in terms of total protection.

[Akarin]

Like why do i claim Molla's role as scum. Why don't I just claim JOAT with different actions

Because you've repeatedly been done with this game emotionally and you'd think it was hilarious if you got away with it?

[Akarin]

tbf it would be

[Akarin]

ugh

hey akarin/nancy can y'all talk to me when you're online

I'm busy with Valentine's day stuff for most of the day until late tonight, can try to talk then or tomorrow.

Sorry.

[Akarin]

If we miselim, Pine's JK doesn't actually clear anyone.

[Akarin]

I really have trouble with the idea that scum decide to use their 1-shot strongman on Ico last night, instead of waiting for massclaim.

Molla was dead and flipped already, Ico

wasn't

one of the two likely PR shots they could have made if we pretend everyone is town for a moment (Ram, FL)

It just seems way too weird.

[Akarin]

So was there ever a convincing reason anyone has for why scum would want to use strongman last night to kill Ico, and not target Ram or FL?

Because to me, if you're worried losing DEB the next day or something and really feel like you want to use that Strongman, why don't you PR hunt?

That's the thing that most doesn't fit to me. And it keeps getting ignored.

[Akarin]

And all the wagons that ever had more than like 2 votes have been on 2 confirmed town, other than Norwee yesterday.

[Akarin]

Against either
Pine
OR
FL & Ram together as the exact scumteam

[Akarin]

Given how the game is played out, I don't really see the scumteam killing Nancy, seems like there have been a lot of people baiting each other into big arguments all game.

And I think you're missing my point: Scum have (unless there's another, and really???) 1 shot of strongman. They know we probably massclaim today.

So scum made the deliberate choice to waste their 1 shot of strongman a night before any massclaims and mech plans.

If they decided they needed to do that (like they were worried about DEB eating the elim today),

why

wouldn't they be really focussing on PR hunting?

[Akarin]

The 4 scum in a 13 player game thing is a pretty big twist.

[Akarin]

Yeah, I’m having trouble believing that unless there is some actual basis to think Ico tried to fake soft something. Ico probably died over me because scum decided I was far more pocketable is my guess.

And I think you're easier to rile up, no offense.

But my point is why is Ico (or you) worth that 1 Strongman shot on

the night before likely massclaim

.

Neither of you looked especially PR-ish I think.

[Akarin]

But there was a strongman in the other setup so clearly that's not true.

[Akarin]

The other hangup I have about Norwee is actually his approach to me today.

I really don't find the one-shot stuff that strong, I keep saying that, but he keeps not refocussing. It doesn't feel as manipulative as it should be compared to the mastermind he's apparently been all game.

[Akarin]

Um, it's pretty clearly a JOAT with 1 shot of each, look at the action resolutions.
Didn't die until N5 but used actions only N1-3.

Spoiler:

Event/Action Summary

Day 1

Reundo

- (

DAAC Member; Domokun

) - lynched Day 1

Night 1

Chemist1422

- Watches Menalque - No one targeted Menalque.

mastina

- Neighborizes Menalque - failed due to Loyal modifier.

Klick

- Protects noone - success, Klick is lazy.

jjh927

- Aliens Klick - success, Klick is aliened.

hitogoroshi

- Gifts Bulletproof talisman to mastina - success

Kerset

- Activates Ninja, kills jjh927 - success, jjh927 (

MAARF Member; Untrod Tripod

) is killed

Day 2

Menalque

- (

DAAC Member; Hakuryū Ren

) - lynched Day 2

Night 2

Chemist1422

- Tracks Kerset - No result due to Kerset ascetic ability

Klick

- Protects mastina - Success, mastina is protected from one kill

mastina

- Bulletproof due to Talisman

ofrhz

- Targets Alisae - success, Alisae is killed

hitogoroshi

- Gifts Hated talisman to Bitmap - success

Kerset

- Activates Ascetic ability and kills Alisae - success & success, rendered untargetable and Alisae is super killed

Day 3

Bitmap

- (

MAARF Member; Princess of the Crystal

) - lynched Day 3

Night 3

Chemist1422

- Follows Klick - success

hitogoroshi

- Gifts Loved talisman to Kerset - success

Klick

- Protects Chemist1422 - success

Kerset

- Watches Chemist and Kills mastina - success Klick targeted Chemist and mastina dies

Day 4

ofrhz

- (

MAARF Member; Mami Tomoe

) - lynched Day 4

Night 4

Kerset

- Kills Klick - success Klick dies

Day 5

Shadoweh

- (

MAARF Member; Ahiru Arima

) - lynched Day 5

Night 5

Kerset

- Kills hitogoroshi - success hitogoroshi dies

All players request a fast night

Day 6

Kerset

- (

DAAC Member - Natsu Dragneel

) - lynched Day 6

[Akarin]

The "gifting talismans" language feels that way, and if it wasn't limited that way, why would the player just use each ability once and then go 2 nights without using any ability?

You're simply wrong here.

[Akarin]

"During the night, you

must

target one player and choose one of the following talismans to grant your target"

It wasn't even optional.

[Akarin]

I have trouble believing you're even arguing in good faith here.

[Akarin]

Because it reads like your approach is discredit first, doublecheck the end of game action resolution stuff later.

[Akarin]

And he was NKed, so no claim.

[Akarin]

Actually found it

JOATS and inventors, did you guys all have compulsory, night-specific actions?

Like n1 you *have* to use your watch, n2 you *have* to whatever

I got to choose which talisman which night but was compulsory to use one each night. Which I guess means as scum my hated wouldn't 100% break the game, but it'd still be pretty rude

[Akarin]

It's not moot. Everything you've said in the past flurry of posts was untrue.

That's relevant.

[Akarin]

There's also the 2 commutes, as I recall DEB's role goes through any protections, so it might go through commutes. (I'm assuming it does.)

[Akarin]

(if we accept that the bulletproof talisman was 1-shot)

Why the need to insert this caveat in the same post admitting I'm right if you aren't trying to discredit?

[Akarin]

You

are

simply wrong.

The role was compulsive, it was alive N4 and N5 but used 1 shot of each on N1-3 and not on N4 or N5.

Which means nothing you've said was correct, and your approach to your incorrect statements pings me pretty hard.

[Akarin]

Oh? Where is Immense Demonic Power on the mafia wiki?

Immense Demonic Power

: During the night, when you are performing the kill, you may activate this ability. That night, the kill will ignore all protections and roleblocking abilities. You may do this once during the game.

[Akarin]

The evidence is pretty damn clear cut that you're wrong but you are wanting to drown me out with enough bullshit that everyone glazes over it.

[Akarin]

I'll come back to this tomorrow, because you're right, tonight there's like 0 chance I'm going to believe anything you say.

But you are 1000% wrong about the roles in the last game.

[Akarin]

And you should really admit that if you want to be treated like an adult.

[Akarin]

It's up to you, Nancy.

I haven't had the time to go back and do the rereading that I want to do, but I'm also just kind of sick of it.

I asked my team and Dunn and Adorable haven't read but Midway agrees that Pine seemed way overstating his case and arguing more than was warranted re: the JOAT thing.

I'm having trouble seeing how Pine could possibly be town honestly, the Strongman shot being used on Ico is really what gets me, I don't think that's very plausible. Also Pine's approach to today. Also his desire to claim last when so many PRs were already outed, he wasn't likely to catch scum in a lie by deferring the claim.

But I haven't gone back to look at D1 team stuff like I said I would.

I guess I don't care, so go ahead, but also I don't care enough to pressure you into it if you're not feeling it?

[Akarin]

If we have to compromise I'd rather Ram than TSQ but I don't really understand why.

Admittedly I'm not read up and I'm saying something so I don't get force replaced, but I'll catch up fully and carefully tomorrow.

[Akarin]

If we elim town, even if Pine's JK

is

real, it can't get guilties.

If we elim scum his results aren't that trustworthy still. Scum can fake no kill.

The mech stuff isn't all that great.

[Akarin]

I'm really sorry everyone.

I'll try to get back to rereading stuff tomorrow or something, sorry.

I do want at least some time to try to catch up before we end the day if that's what we're doing.

I can't remember why I had this thought, but I think I'd rather vote TSQ than Norwee first.

[Akarin]

I'm hoping when I actually get some time to think about the game, town!Pine will be some burst of clarity or something, because that was like almost

inconceivable

to me after a certain point yesterday.

Maybe it'll shake things up.

But honestly I've been way too distracted.

[Akarin]

I want to be suspicious of FL almost on principle, but I'm having trouble seeing his approach to yesterday coming from scum!FL town!Pine.

I know WiFoM and FL is good scum and all that but it just doesn't feel like that to me in some intuitive way.

[Akarin]

Still sorry,

Still keep not having any time and then not sleeping

Still think things will look up any day now.

I wonder how confident FL would be that I'd flip on him today given the previous day.

On the other hand, I've hardly been a big force for anything in this game (sorry).

But still, not like the vengeful thing is that useful that it had to die. We were treating Misty (rightfully) as basically conftown, so it means that scum wanted Misty dead more than me.

[Akarin]

Hi this is me not being dead so don't replace me.

I'll say something of substance now and then find time to catch up Monday.

[Akarin]

I'd really like time to actually read the game in full but it's just not gonna happen until Monday.

[Akarin]

I really don't see that no elim accomplishes anything but I guess I'm fine with it, I could read up over the night.

Ram was such a weird kill, maybe something would come of it, but kind of doubt it's not just me dying and then the same situation.

[Akarin]

I'm really sorry about not being so out of it all game and not voting now by the way, I know you guys are probably just going in circles, but I don't want to throw the game on a middle of the night vote when I haven't given it the thought it deserves.