Open 725: Jungle Republic - Day 5
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Sando Mafia Scum
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3, how is this even a question?In post 41, AP wrote:OK.. here's a question that's definitely going to separate the scum from the every other bum: Would you rather be locked in a room with..
1- Liz Hurley
2- Beyonce
3- Heather Graham
Note: Ladies need not respond. After all, we allwhom you'd rather be with.know-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Pretty sure we all decided that was N_Ms job this game...so yeah RVS till endgame I guess.In post 61, ceejayvinoya wrote:Is anyone even trying to gamesolve? Where's that 'serious guy who gets us out of rvs'? He should be here by now lols.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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So assumed since the werewolf one is mentioned. At least don't see anywhere where it's mentioned that they definitively don't.In post 65, UglyDuck wrote:also do I understand correctly that the mafia does not get a kill in this game. Or is it just so "assumed" that it is not mentioned in the set up?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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^ok that messed up, but meh you get the idea.In post 95, TheYankeeReaper wrote:This sounds incredibly ingenuine. Particularly this:
"but ignoring me calling you scummy"
Anybody else feel this way?
I'm confused how anyone can read ducklings post and think he "ignored" being called scummy. It's why duckling responded at all and he addresses why he's getting called scummy, not sure why not addressing the specific statement is itself scummy?
Then again duckling doesn't feel like his town game. I don't know his scum-game, but this feels different from the towngames I've been in with him.
UNVOTE:-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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This is most definitely a possibility, I'll reread with this in mind and get back to you.In post 103, skitter30 wrote:Also I think sando thinks I'm talking about uglyduck maybe? I'm talking about the worst. Uglyduck did respond to my points - tw's first post after mine was to vote me after udglyduck did.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Ok yeah I def was, and yeah what you're saying happened.In post 103, skitter30 wrote:Also I think sando thinks I'm talking about uglyduck maybe? I'm talking about the worst. Uglyduck did respond to my points - tw's first post after mine was to vote me after udglyduck did.
It wasn't "reachy af". The reaction was bad from duckling, but the reaction test was bad itself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be looking to engage with a wallpost like that on page 3, but I also wouldn't OMGUS.In post 121, the worst wrote:That felt reachy af to me. I wanted to revisit it later but when I saw someone else took exception to it i was like yeah let's make a deal out of this-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Uglyduck is perfectly sane for wanting to withold at this point especially, and I wish I'd withheld my earlier comments tbh. People have reads because something has/hasn't happened in the game but 5-6 pages in is way too early to get a decent feel for any of those actions. Talking about that pre-empts it and destroys any read you might have. That said, probs best from Uglyduck to withhold any "because reasons" reads unless required or they become articulatable (it's a word now).In post 140, the worst wrote:
If skitter is scum you die if you don't explainIn post 139, UglyDuck wrote:
I choose to hold off bc i can. What would myreasons matter at this point?In post 138, the worst wrote:Will your thoughts get progressively better?
Alright. Why would you hold off on voicing your thoughts on how skitter is different until d2, from a holistic pov?
If skitter is town you die if you don't explain it
I agree let her produce more readable content first but we should be airing this shit before EOD-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Pretty sure I've stated in a game with you that I think OMGUS is NAI and anti-town. If not...that.In post 143, the worst wrote:if you honestly thing OMGUS is remotely scumtelling what do you make of the fact skitter OMGUS'd my OMGUS vote?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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"really bad"? Depends on circumstances. If we repeat our last (real) game together and get 70+ pages D1 then yeah, holding it till D2 is stupid. If we quicklynch in 8 pages then it's up to him if it's better to maintain the read at the risk of death or out it.In post 147, the worst wrote:It's fair he doesnt want to throw his reasoning down now but withholding it to d2 is actually really bad-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Sando Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Sando Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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*goes back to check, again*In post 154, Draynth wrote:Not sure how both of you managed to miss it, especially presuming you actually went back to check if it was and decided it wasn't there
...
Shit-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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You're right, we're both scum running the same gambit of pretending to misread the factional abilities.In post 161, Draynth wrote:Scum - UD , Sando (based on 154)-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Whoa whoa whoa, now I might not be the brightest spark, but there's only one "scum" faction yeah? There's them werewolves, but they're:In post 164, ManWithNoName wrote:
You could be different factional scum.In post 162, Sando wrote:
You're right, we're both scum running the same gambit of pretending to misread the factional abilities.In post 161, Draynth wrote:Scum - UD , Sando (based on 154)
I doubt it but it's possible
a) Not "scum"
b) have a night kill
So you're saying one of us might be scum pretending not to know that we don't have NK, and the other person might be a werewolf who does have an NK, also pretending they don't know scum don't have an NK...
Also we both did it by assuming that scum don't have an NK and missed the statement in the mechanics part.
I have a lot to learn in the scumhunting business it seems, you guys are something special!-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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What you talking about there fella? TYR is playing like this and therefore town? Cause that's 3 whole posts there my fella, not a lot to base a read off of my friend.In post 163, the worst wrote:wrt tyr
read em and weep.
before he replaced out
his slot was town (and was the LyLo mislynch)-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Well wolves have an NK, so your throwaway of "they could be seperate scumfactions" needs to take into account that one of them knows they don't have an NK and is pretending not to know that, and one has an NK and is pretending not to know the other faction has an NK.In post 170, ManWithNoName wrote:How have you determined that the Werewolves are not scum, Sando?
Scum is anyone anti-town in my book.
I know you say it's "unlikely", but honestly, it's an incredibly odd supposition to make that to me, clearly lacks any reasonable thought to the actual validity of it, which I'm mocking.
But honestly, what do you hope to achieve with this line of questioning? You think wolves are going to be parochial about their alignment and deny their "scumminess" or something?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Who are you reminding?In post 173, the worst wrote:if that's what I meant that's what I would've said.......
just a reminder TYR has a bizarre posting style-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Stop reading games you're dead inIn post 174, the worst wrote:Sando did you role scum without me?!
that is such a NSW thing of you to do.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Ok, so we're not talking scuminess? Cause I took your questioning to be "this could be scum I caught over 'ere", or am I wrong there?In post 177, ManWithNoName wrote:This just all went over my head. I'm going to stop talking to you now, this conversation is boring and confusing after I asked you to explain one use of a term.
The basic gist: I thought you were saying that me saying werewolves aren't "scum" was, in fact, scummy. I'm saying that's a silly argumentfor scuminess(even if it's a reasonable statement to make). If you'd like to say "nah bro, not scummy, just a statement" then cool. If you'd like to discuss the relative scumminess of it, however, then sure, let's step up to the plate.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Neither of us were ignorant of it, we both assumed it due to the role PMs not mentioning it, and we both missed the actual statement in the mechanics part that is totally clear.In post 251, ceejayvinoya wrote:Um. What if UD and Sando really are ignorant of the fact that mafia can't kill? I glossed over those posts and thought them NAI, because they could go either way.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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True. I guess given your vote I can now assume you're actually talking scuminess and you've decided to step up to the plate?In post 254, ManWithNoName wrote:True or false? The only time you would possibly read the mafia role PM and not the Werewolf PM is if you rolled Mafia.
So my assumption that mafia do not have an NK was based on reading their role PM and not seeing the NK, AND reading the werewolf one and seeing it mentioned. What about that says to you that I only read one of the role PMs?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Duckling should be aware that I read all the role PMs based on prior gameplay with me that I know he's seen The conclusive statement that mafia don't have a NK is not in the role PMs, it's in the opening mechanics post, which I didn't read thoroughly enough evidently.In post 255, the worst wrote:+1 I try and not read anything except my alignment unless I have like...responsibilities.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I'm putting AP as town for today, but I disagree with his blanket townreads on MWNN and tw, duckling especially.In post 258, AP wrote:
I have my reasoning in a zip file. Let me unzip and get back to you.In post 248, TheYankeeReaper wrote:
Can you tell the rest of the class why you're reading those three town?In post 228, AP wrote:OK, serious read.. duckling is town
So far I've pegged 3 townies with some degree of confidence: Pintu, MWNN & tw
Next..-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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So what I'm taking out of this is you're running a line of questioning here without actually reading the thread, correct?In post 262, ManWithNoName wrote:Why was there any confusion then? Like any did you need to ask the question?
Here's what happened:
UD asks whether we've got confirmation mafia have no kill or if we're all just assuming it
Sando says "well I assumed it cause mafia role PM doesn't have it, but werewolf does"
Draynth then says "you guys are idiots, it's written really clearly"
Sando acknowledges his stupidity
That's what you're pushing against here... I never asked a question throughout, so I don't know what you're on about there.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I'm not defending UD, I'm attacking MWNN's defective line of questioning. He's running a line without taking the time to understand the context or even read what happened. Town have no motivation to do that, so it's either lazy town play or it's scum-play. He's also making a habit of asking questions that are clearly designed to scumhunt someone (me in this case) yet are followed by a swift retreat when the reasoning behind them is questioned:In post 267, skitter30 wrote:=> I do find it weird that sando is defending/speaking for ud and is saying things like 'we both ...' (162 and 253)
Spoiler:
There is a clear pattern here, ask a vague leading question that implies scumminess, when challenged on that, obfuscate and back away whilst denying they were ever actually trying to imply scumminess.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I'm a) leaning 60/40 badtown/scum, and b) typically have atrocious D1 scumreads (my townreads are pretty good though). Only scum areIn post 273, skitter30 wrote:Which is it?motivatedto act in the way he has, but I'd say it's fairly good scumplay and quite a subtle art, so it's more likely to be a townie being silly imo. Then again never played with him, there's certainly people I'd 100% think this was scum from, but I don't know his play at all so I can't judge it very well yet.
Slight town-lean, not today's lynch. I'm curious about your style and have thoughts on it, but I'd like to see how it evolves (or remains unchanged) over the course of a day or two before making a judgement there.In post 273, skitter30 wrote:what's your read on me btw?
Glad someone appreciated itIn post 273, skitter30 wrote:(aside, nice use of 'parochial' )-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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There's a reason I italicised "motivation". Scum are motivated to do what he's doing, but town can do it inadvertently. Any in-game scumhunting (ie not meta) is deducing where Hanlon's Razor applies. I'm not sure why you think this is in any way a surprise or comparable to what MWNN is doing? I've pointed out what he's doing with careful consideration for the context, and I'm not pushing vague leading questions towards MWNN in any way. The idea that he's wavering on the scumminess is an indicator of his backing away from confrontation whilst continuing to throw shade, which is scummy, not the wavering itself. I'm confronting him head on and calling it out, not calling him scum doesn't change that fact.In post 276, skitter30 wrote:What I understand you to be saying: 'Only scum are motivated to behave the way he does, but such behavior is *such* good scumplay that like most people aren't that good at scum so it's more likely that he's just bad town instead'?
Like .... why isn't he good scum behaving in this fashion that you believe to be scum motivated? I don't super understand the conclusion that he's just bad town instead of good scum tbh.
Why do I think it's more likely to be town and not scum? It's early D1, which for scum means he picked me out as a target, and if he's done any read of my games (which you would if you're targeting a mislynch candidate) then he'd realise I'm going to react this way, which is drawing a hell of a lot of attention to him. It's also a technique that I used to use as town to (badly) trap people and get them lynched. If I'm using Occam's Razor (why are these guys obsessed with razors?) then just being town is a more convincing argument to me right now.
Now, it also looks to me like you're hedging from engaging with my actual post and skirting round the edges to call into question the entire argument whilst only addressing a very small fraction of the argument. Is my argument laid out against MWNN flawed and my conclusion further worrying you? Or is the argument valid and you're just confused how I got all that right and still won't call him scummy?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Sweet as CJ, now you get to vote for The Man.In post 282, ArcAngel9 wrote:Please note that i am okay with the short forms of names as a vote but not an abbreviation. This is a bit confusing.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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a) I'm saying he didn't even read the first interaction that started this with UD, which was not hard to understand. He doesn't need to have a dictionary next to him for that post, and given it's literally what kicked this off, reading it isn't unreasonable no?In post 288, skitter30 wrote:=> I think that MWNN hasn't been totally understanding your posts and that he's responding to what he thinks you said, not what you actually said, and when he couldn't parse your argument he just ended the convo. I don't think that's inherently AI. I don't really have a read on him from that convo.
=> I think that you're ascribing scummy motivation to his half of the convo and framing it as being scummy, and then come to the conclusion that it's more likely than not bad town which doesn't totally match up to me.
=> The reason why I'm having a problem with this at all is that you seem to be trying to undermine his vote on you: you're describing his motivations in his half of the convo of being scummy/disingenuous. Like this seems to be a really really long-winded way of going about calling his read/vote on you bad.
b) And again, you're just throwing shade without addressing my question, is what I'm saying somehow incorrect?
c) I mean, it is? Do you think his original read is good/bad or is this purely about my reaction? I've outlined exactly why I think it's town instead of scum, address that instead of just putting meaningless drivel out there to look busy.
Unless you actually want to address my points, about his posting being bad, scumhunting and Hanlons razor, my actual reasoning for it being town instead of scum...then this is a totally pointless conversation.
You're also literally doing what you're accusing me of doing, waffling around about what I'm doing and calling my read bad and not actually ascribing scumminess to it.
VOTE: skitter30
Happy now duckling?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Totes. I'm reading AP and CJ town, but I'm super struggling to find anyone else town and I'm reaching for any more. This has not been an easy flowing D1 for me.
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Sando Mafia Scum
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So both of you (AP+duckling) are confident you can read him but you currently don't have enough info?In post 294, the worst wrote:
QFT but him avoiding telling one way or the other is slightly scum indicativeIn post 293, AP wrote:
I have a way of reading him that I am not disclosing (because if I do then I'd have absolutely no way of reading him anymore)In post 292, ManWithNoName wrote:I've never been able to form a read on N_M, how are you scumreading him?
I feel like he's always a POE pick for me.
Basically he has not town told for me here, but has yet to scum tell for real.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Copy that. Confident of a D2 read?In post 301, AP wrote:
Yes.In post 299, Sando wrote:So both of you (AP+duckling) are confident you can read him but you currently don't have enough info?
For anyone new to NM, he's gonna lolhammer anyone put to L-1, it's fairly amusing despite the predictability.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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So you're saying:In post 308, skitter30 wrote:Like I get all of this. I understand why you're telling me you've come to the conclusion of bad town and why his posting is bad, and this isn't what I have a problem with. What I don't get is why you're initial post looks like a scumcase and is framing his half of the convo in a bad/scummy light when your actual argument is that he isn't scum. Or why that post was made at all if you weren't trying to scumcase him. And now that I think about it, how it was even a response to the original question that I asked: why you were speaking for UD.
I'm not waffling: I'm telling you that I think that you were scummy in how you presented your read on MWNN because it looks like you're trying to frame him in a scummy light when you aren't actually calling him scum. Like it looks to me more about trying to discredit MWNN in an attempt to distract from his vote on you / his line of questioning than actually explaining a read on him. And I find it really weird that you didn't have a problem with ceejay voting there becuase of you when you *weren't* scumcasing him.
a) You understand my reasoning for bad town vs scum
b) You find it scummy that I made a case and didn't call him scum
...so you're saying I made a big deal about someone and then avoided calling him scum, as scum? Like...why? What would I be gaining there as scum? CJ picked up my case and ran with it and instead of realising I had a good mislynch target (well as scum I'd know he's at least not my faction and presumably CJ isn't buddying me as my scumpartner THAT closely), I decided to wind that back and say "nah, more likely to be town". C'mon, where's the logical scum-play here? What am I, as scum, hoping to achieve here?
You're literally doing this to me. You're not making your scumread on me clear, anyone reading our interaction in the last few pages would see that before this latest post you've never outright said I'm scummy. Lot's of "it's almost like" and "my problem is" and "feels like", without coming out and actually giving a scumpinion. And you're not voting me (or anyone, so it's not like you find someone else scummier). By your own logic, you're acting scummy here.In post 308, skitter30 wrote:I'm not waffling: I'm telling you that I think that you were scummy in how you presented your read on MWNN because it looks like you're trying to frame him in a scummy light when you aren't actually calling him scum.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Rofl, ok, so you can't actually explain a motivation for why I'd do what I'm doing as scum, but you're pretty sure I'm scum...nice scumhunting there...In post 311, skitter30 wrote:I don't know why you didn't hop on, or why you didn't cultivate the wagon by proceeding to scumread MWNN when I asked. I also don't know why you didn't protest when someone else started a wagon on someone you're bad-town-reading because of a case you wrote.
Also, my very next post after CJs vote was explaining to you that I thought it was most likely town...gee I'm soooooo sorry I didn't directly call out CJ there. I could have done exactly what you've just done, claim "forgetfulness" and drop my vote on him post CJ, instead I responded to you about how I think it's more likely town than not.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Why on earth would I protest it? CJ took what I posted and drew a different conclusion than me, so what? I'm clearly not very sure on my own conclusion, I said 60/40, which also just happens to be pretty much the ratio of town to scum (this was an accident, 60/40 was picked to show I'm really not sure).In post 314, skitter30 wrote:And like, you still haven't protested the fact that ceejay's voting someone you think is more likely town than not based on a case that you wrote.
I'm STILL not committing. What about "60/40" is committing? It's the ratio we started with, it's specifically NOT committing. He also just recently didn't make my townlist (which is very short), why on earth are you trying to paint me out to be TRing him? I was putting it out there to draw attention to it for others to compare with their experiences, things like "yeah I've played with him before, he's normally a really logical guy with committed questioning" or "nah man, that's just how he is".In post 314, skitter30 wrote:I think you just weren't particularly planning on committing to a read either way cuz that wasn't the motivation of the post; you weren't trying to explain a read but rather discredit MWNN despite 'more likely than not' townreading him.
Why aren't you protesting CJs vote? What do you think of it given you think he's sheeping scum?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Duckling should be awake if you don't want to chat to a 1v1erIn post 317, pinturicchio wrote:Oh, it's skitter 1v1ing Sando, that will take some time. Is there someone here who I can chat with?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Weak, and the interaction is why I'm not TRing duckling.In post 319, pinturicchio wrote:I can talk to you. What do you think about the worst's case on Espeonage
I also did not like Espe's posts, but for different reasons than duckling has posted. It also doesn't strike me as TvT, but then nothing this game has so...-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Your dedication to this is a source of inspiration to meIn post 324, pinturicchio wrote:You flaking aussies come here and talk to me! If you leave me alone you'll regret... You better run, you better take cover-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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If I had to shoot between those two I'd shoot duckling based on him not playing to the town-meta I have of him.In post 327, pinturicchio wrote:But in a world where you had to chose a side and in one side is duckling and in the other is Espeonage, who would you chose? This is for academic purposes, since I don't think duckling vs Esp is not TvT, I'm still trying to sort that out
Plus duck is tasty.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Never played with him, but he strikes me as a scummy lurker. His post about me and UD being scum was ill-considered and he hasn't responded to criticism of that. The lack of content gives me a lack of insight obviously, but twas him bringing up this whole thing about me and UD not reading the role PMs and opening post, so for him to subsequently stay quiet strikes me as scum setting something up for townies to kill themselves over.In post 329, pinturicchio wrote:I need your word about Draynth too. I'm biased because my last finished game is with scum!Draynth on it and I don't know how town!Draynth plays. From someone who hasn't played with Draynth, what are your thoughts on him?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I honestly thought his initial observation (it was him that prompted me to look into the opening post more closely and find the explicit statement about NKs) was a joke, and I responded accordingly I thought. He then found me and UD scummy, which as I said, makes not so much of the senses.In post 334, pinturicchio wrote:
Yes yes this is exactly what I see coming from him. I'll give him a pass since this time it really could be IRL business but FoS on him definetelyIn post 330, Sando wrote:
Never played with him, but he strikes me as a scummy lurker. His post about me and UD being scum was ill-considered and he hasn't responded to criticism of that. The lack of content gives me a lack of insight obviously, but twas him bringing up this whole thing about me and UD not reading the role PMs and opening post, so for him to subsequently stay quiet strikes me as scum setting something up for townies to kill themselves over.In post 329, pinturicchio wrote:I need your word about Draynth too. I'm biased because my last finished game is with scum!Draynth on it and I don't know how town!Draynth plays. From someone who hasn't played with Draynth, what are your thoughts on him?
It's caused a bit of a shitstorm, and as town in said shitstorm it says to me it's not a very scummy shitstorm (I'd say no more than a single scum in here), and the original creator of the shitstorm has nothing further to say on it...-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Don't think you're disagreeing with me on (1), it was merely an observation from me, I don't draw and scumclusions about the joke part.In post 340, pinturicchio wrote:Hmmm I disagree with two things you're saying here: 1. Yeah, if you thought it was a joke and then he said you and UD both were scummy because of this, it makes no sense; but if it wasn't a joke, it's a consistent read on both of you. But being consistent is NAI at this point of the game, and not making sense is NAI too at this state; 2. Saying that HE caused the shitstorm is a little convenient coming from you, since you and UD talking about the scum could easily be scum faking a townslip (I personally don't think this is the case, but it could be).
I'm not trying to take the focus away from me/MWNN/Skitter and my role in it, I'd like more attention on it tbh, but his post was the impetus for what happened. Sure if I go kiss his GF he's got a right to be angry, but it's a bit weird if he says "oi that's not cool mate" and then wanders off while he lets others deal with me.
Not saying I'm not kissing his GF, but it's weird that he's made a feeble "oi mate, not cool" and then left others to fight his battles.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I also think our metaphor is getting thin at this pointIn post 343, Sando wrote:Not saying I'm not kissing his GF, but it's weird that he's made a feeble "oi mate, not cool" and then left others to fight his battles.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I posted my case, he voted the next post, he posted something unrelated the post after, then you posted asking me about scumread, and I posted the 60/40 the post after that.In post 349, skitter30 wrote:Basically I'm saying that if he misinterpreted your post that badly I'm surprised that you didn't like correct his line of thinking at any point, and that it's an indicator that you're fine with it being read as a scumcase.
I think ceejay is slightly scummy in general (the one post of NM's that I liked was him voting ceejay after a post that pinged me). I however think that him sheeping you is more on you since your post looks like it was a scumcase when it apparently wasn't meant to be read that way, and you never clarified that.
You're talking about a total span of 5 posts, it's not like I ignored this for days like you're making out. The very next post of mine after his vote, and only 3 posts after total, I posted that I personally wasn't going in on the scumread. And yes, I felt at the time and I still feel, fine with him concluding scum from it. Just because I didn't directly point to CJ and say "hey mate, I disagree with you" is what this is all about? Seriously?
Seems like you're slowly coming around to the idea that I posted a case and and now trying to slink off while town carries my bags? If so, read that last page with me and Pintu regarding Draynth and give thoughts please.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Top notch effort ignoring our actual discussion about this, read the bit about kissing the blokes GF.In post 351, skitter30 wrote:And he's busy in real life, and you're framing that as him causing a shitstorm and then lurking in order to let town tear itself up in the fallout.
I feel like you're ascribing scummy motivation (ie staying quiet after scumreading you/ud) to something completely NAI (ie being busy irl)-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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That you're muddling your way through desperately trying to find a scum-motivation for my actions...and that you're getting close to something that I've just accused Draynth of. Namely, the idea that you drop some bait about someone's scumminess and slink away while townies fight over it and kill themselves in the process.In post 355, skitter30 wrote:
I don't know what you mean by thisIn post 352, Sando wrote:Seems like you're slowly coming around to the idea that I posted a case and and now trying to slink off while town carries my bags?
a) get your own scumcase!
b) given you're accusing me of what I'm accusing Draynth of, what do you think? Who's been more effective at this scumploy?
a is a joke-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I mean yeah, your read of me is probably gonna be decided if/when I flipIn post 360, UglyDuck wrote:Sando - dependent on flip, but null
No more seriously, whose flip am I dependent on, or don't want to tell me in-case I kill em? Also how you treating flip stuff in a multiball? This is my first so genuinely interested in how you're approaching it?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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So Pintu explicitly stated agreement with me and was clearly fishing for that sort of answer, so he already had it in mind. And UD has reiterated some of my points and some of yours. Why exactly do you think it's me that's scummy and why do you seem to hold the view that someone should be incredibly definitive with their D1 scumreads?In post 357, skitter30 wrote:back to the draynth thing, I think that you're framing something NAI as being scummy.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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No I'm not kidding you, why would I?In post 368, Draynth wrote:'Haven't played with Draynth'
'This is how I think he plays based on the 5 posts so far, and am subsequently scumreading him for'
Are you kidding me
You say the post was ill-considered, of course it was? I said it was my very initial impressions based on a skim.
Also, why does it being ill-considered lead you to believe I'm scum?
It also feels super bad to be scumread for "staying quiet to let townies kill each other" when in reality I was just busy, as I said.
I'm asked for a read on you, I give it. I also said
I'm pretty clearly saying I don't really have much insight into you.In post 330, Sando wrote:The lack of content gives me a lack of insight obviously
I'm not acting on it, I haven't voted you, pushed you, done anything. It's not a strong read because there's not much there and it's obviously going to evolve. You also called me scummy for my 4th post in the game so...-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Consistently? I didn't mention you until I was asked and after that only cause skitter wanted to pursue me for it. What about it feels wrong? Factually wrong?In post 371, Draynth wrote:Except what you have done is consistently passively throw shade on me for the whole situation.
I acknowledge you're not hardcore tunnelling me and that you admitting a lack of experience playing with me may affect your read but what you're doing feels wrong as town.
Anyway, what do you think of TYR?
Do you think it's worth pushing at all or am I wasting my time?
Not a lot tbh, I found the duckling vote reasonable however the reasoning was...odd, I have no idea what he's on about. I like the pressure on duckling though.
The lack of response to persistent pressure is both troubling and annoying. He's got thoughts on my current scumread that I'd like to hear, and yeah his other statements need an answer. I'm comfortable with the vote from you and I certainly hope you're not wasting your time, and yeah I'm happy to join you later if it remains persistent.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Yet you seem to want me to psychically know what Pintu's thoughts were...In post 379, skitter30 wrote:wrt ud - I mean, I'm not psychic? I can't call someone out for an argument they made before they made the argument
wrt bolded - I don't know what that means or where you think I'm doing that
Bolded - You think my thoughts on Draynth are a "framing", well Pintu has expressed the exact same thoughts and UD has confirmed some of them, and refuted others. What are your thoughts on the "framing" given Pintu thinks exactly the same? What are your thoughts on the "framing" now that UD has made his statement about it?-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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It's almost like scum couldIn post 391, skitter30 wrote:Pin and ud have meta reasons for associating draynth lurking with draynth being scummy. You explicitly said your read wasn't meta-based, but that you think him lurking is scummy, and my point is that being busy irl isn't AI.*gasp*lie...-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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I wanted to led it ride for a day or so to see how she responded, but yeah I'm tending to agree. The desperate attempt to read everything I do as scummy strikes me as townie, plus she's run this well beyond what a scum would see as viable I think.In post 411, the worst wrote:A few things skitter is posting are looking townier
UNVOTE:-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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It's a decent descriptor. You're reading literally every interaction I have with people as scummy, that's not how scum act, they generally act townie most of the time and then veer off into scum territory as subtly as they can. It's also too much work and risky for scum typically to try to paint a persons every actions as scummy, they're going to look at a few interactions and hone in on those.In post 438, skitter30 wrote:a) i don't think I'm being 'desperate'
This tells me you're town making a bad read, but then I obviously know it's a bad read and no-one else does, so I'm really just explaining why I think you're most likely town.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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What?In post 467, Espeonage wrote:You flip red and all your reads become 'poof' meaningless, just like that.
a) association isn't a thing anymore?
b) this is multiball...
I think Espe's theorising about multiball says he's werewolf, who are likely to play like normal scum imo. Directing town away from "normal" scumhunting is not helping town and has not been clarified.
VOTE: Espeonage
Duckling you're still looking non-town to me, so Ima guess you're Mafia, that's a bad duckling!-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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What you're gonna find is that appeals to authority aren't gonna have a great effect on me...back to your valiant efforts to get duckling lynched though, I can appreciate that at least.In post 477, Espeonage wrote:Sando, pushing the you don't scumhunt normally is how I bussed last jungle republic and is in fact how you play multiball, so sit your arse down and get in your lane.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Theorising itself is not, but:In post 487, skitter30 wrote:I don't understand what you mean by this. Why is theorizing about multiball specifically werewolf indicative? Why is it even scum indicative in a generic-scum sense?
a) he's not backing up his theory, he's just saying "I've played jungle before, this is how you do it", hence my Appeal to Authority statement.
b) I think it's werewolf because they're the "traditional" scum in this game. They've got a NK, they don't have to worry about being NK'd and they've got a PR they need to deal with. They have some extra thoughts on their mind, like needing to get scum numbers lower (I think this is how end-game works from my reading), but overall they can probably play a formal normal scumgame, which I'm positing that you can therefore normally scumhunt. Espe is saying that you can't normal scumhunt (which I disagree with) and that's saying to town that they shouldn't do something that should in theory be just as effective against one-scumfaction, wolves. Hence via that old logic-centre in mah brain, most likely wolf.