Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Aristeia]

my page two guess is that shirou and una are mafia togetber and im sleepy so i am going to go back to napping

[Aristeia]

I ONCE AGAIN ATTEMPT TO LIVE PAST DAY 1

this would be funny to say as mafia and cakes is a funny person

[Aristeia]

It's the avatar isn't it?...I shoulda stuck with the fox one I had. If only I got this much action on Tinder. Maybe I should put this avatar in the photo lineup...

The last time I put a photo on my dating profile just because people liked it in a mafia game, I started a 5 months relationship

<3

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

ok VOTE: Shirou

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

maybe i did not understand the joke afterall

uh oh

skitter tell

[Aristeia]

Shirou seems like very unmotivated scum in this game, so if we leave them for last and kill their buddies we basically win.

why not just vote him and see if his teammates bus or not it will be exciting

[Aristeia]

maybe its klick's turn to be the superhero

[Aristeia]

even your gifs this game feel somewhat forced

[Aristeia]

even your gifs this game feel somewhat forced

because I want to be suspected a bit this game, sounds like my unique fun right now given I didn't roll actual scum

Do you think it's not intentional?

I don't know

[Aristeia]

BlueBloodedToffee
Lucian
Aristeia

giuseppina

SirCakez
Toto
TheGoldenParadox
Shirou
Aubrey

Gamma Emerald

Una

NorwegianboyEE

VOTE: Aristeia

this is a decent start

[Aristeia]

Super Sekrit tell says Aristeia is scum this game.

oooh?

[Aristeia]

I am intrigued by both Klick's list in 79 *and* Aristeia calling it a good start in 82.

do you disagree with any of his townreads?

[Aristeia]

You didn't acknowledge my presence in any way up until this point.

I'm just following the guide:

https://pandagossips.com/posts/208

[Aristeia]

Ausuka's been telling me that I have to be less aggressive and more demure to get Datisi's attention.

[Aristeia]

My bad, Ari. <3 I hope you'll be able to forgive me.

what would I need to forgive you for dear?

[Aristeia]

can you explain how you formed the thought "Ari isn't paying attention to me, she might be scum!" because if anything I'd think I'd be more flirty with you if I was scum so I'm not sure how you formed that thought.

[Aristeia]

I think you've always been in his heart. even when I was dancing with him he couldn't stop talking about you.

[Aristeia]

that doesn't sound healthy

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

can you explain how you formed the thought "Ari isn't paying attention to me, she might be scum!" because if anything I'd think I'd be more flirty with you if I was scum so I'm not sure how you formed that thought.

It wasn't a serious thought, I mostly just wanted to see why you're not interacting with me. And I remember tinfoiling once that you're scum because you weren't flirting with me (you were not scum) so I went with that angle. I just wanted to get your attention I'm sorry I lied I don't have a read on you yet

you could've just said you wanted to flirt with me

[Aristeia]

As an Alpha Male™, I legally have to be mysterious and not let my intentions be known freely.

swoonworthy answer

[Aristeia]

T

giuseppina

Aubrey, Klick, Norweg

Una, TGP, Toto

N: BBT, SirCakes, Gamma

Lucian

Shirou

S

[Aristeia]

I thought you said it was intentional on your part

[Aristeia]

I thought you said it was intentional on your part

Oh no she's trying to get a gotcha out of me

I'm screwed

I don't understand the baiting in a mountainous open setup

[Aristeia]

Why do you think Shirou is scum? He seems so relaxed

he had a lot more opinions and he was trying to do stuff when i played with him as town

here he's just not trying to do anything and it feels weird

and then when he says he's doing it intentionally it feels like the way scum excuse their behavior rather than an actual thing he's doing on purpose.

[Aristeia]

Do you think this is the best I could do as scum though? Maybe not even the best given we can't always play our best, but do you think there's any scum motivation for all this then?

I'm sure you can do better regardless of your alignment.

[Aristeia]

hmhmhm

it is like,

mmm

why am i town instead of ‘i have no idea how to read her’

but also if you’re town maybe i am somehow both town and! ‘i have no idea how to read her’

which i kinda think is generally how you end up reading me as town but you know that as much as i do

maybe I know something about you that you don't know about yourself or maybe I'm just guessing based on how I think our brains work but honestly I might not be able to tell the difference.

[Aristeia]

he had a lot more opinions and he was trying to do stuff when i played with him as town

I was?

I'm pretty sure for the earliest pages I was nonstop roleplaying. Where did that "he did more" come from?

for the first part of the game you were trying to get paired because getting paired was more important but even before you got paired you were throwing out reads and doing things. Here I don't really see what you're doing at all.

[Aristeia]

Why do you think Shirou is scum? He seems so relaxed

is being relaxed a towntell for him? I was confused you townread him because it felt like he was the least townie of all the people on the first two pages.

[Aristeia]

i dunno i just played a game with him where he was town and had no chill so :/

[Aristeia]

I think love is the light that guides the ocean home.

[Aristeia]

you can just ask me, I would be delighted to answer if I can.

[Aristeia]

oops moment

[Aristeia]

I don’t really understand why Ari has me high in reads, but they basically townread me for bad reasons in lovers game and i even pointed it out so i don’t really see why they would try again if they rolled scum here.

I don't think my reasons in the dance game were bad tbh.

[Aristeia]

maybe that is too cute to be mafia

[Aristeia]

rain will fall because it misses the sea

[Aristeia]

i feel bad when i think you might be mafia :/

[Aristeia]

i do not!

[Aristeia]

remember when you just casually walked into town with a dragon that you caught looking all sheepish and like it was no big deal

yes i know its unfair to think that would happen again because dragons dont fly around here anymore but still.

[Aristeia]

…vote. Surely someone here has warranted your interest. Sitting idle focusing in yourself does nothing.

a lot of players have

but this:

We can just murder una and call it a day.

VOTE: una

sort of thing is one of the main reasons i hold my vote,

am not currently super confident in any of my scumreads and i really do not think calling it a day right now would be particularly beneficial to town

and i really do not believe anyone else needs me to vote in order to read me and from my perspective my vote just adds noise to any attempts i make at evaluating wagons and such

I think its hard to get anywhere if people don't start walking and as much as you don't enjoy the climb sometimes that is the point.

[Aristeia]

I was interested in what you mean by "becomes difficult to weight", I guess. Because I know you read meta a lot, and like a lot a lot. And all of my scumgames in the past ~6 months were me tryharding and taking an active role. Which I assumed you know (and if you didn't, you do know, and can verify) and I assume it makes some sort of difference when evaluating me based on effort vs. someone who has demonstrated already to be less likely to effort as scum?

this feels somewhat deceptive intentionally because you're only looking at half of a quadrant on purpose

[Aristeia]

Una what do you think of Lucian so far this game?

[Aristeia]

remember when you just casually walked into town with a dragon that you caught looking all sheepish and like it was no big deal

yes i know its unfair to think that would happen again because dragons dont fly around here anymore but still.

That was one game a year and a half ago! And if your expectations for me are "either murder a scumfuck within 12 hours of the game starting, or you're scum", you're never gonna townread me...

I know I'm so unfair to you and I hate it.

[Aristeia]

241 seemed to be implying that I'm more likely to be mafia for not efforting. 254 had a similar vibe with the a) point of the post. I don't think that's valid to say about someone who has consistently demonstrated to be able to effort as scum. And I know pina loves meta.

I think she was expressing suspicion of the people saying that not efforting -> scum though.

[Aristeia]

Ok but what if I'm having more fun

having fun is the most important part <3

[Aristeia]

241 seemed to be implying that I'm more likely to be mafia for not efforting. 254 had a similar vibe with the a) point of the post. I don't think that's valid to say about someone who has consistently demonstrated to be able to effort as scum. And I know pina loves meta.

I think she was expressing suspicion of the people saying that not efforting -> scum though.

hmm I think maybe it makes sense that you would respond like that to her if you actually thought she was saying something she wasn't because then it's not as much of a non sequitor,

I could also just be wrong about the sentiment she was expressing because I am not great at reading as demonstrated earlier.

[Aristeia]

i think my mental image of scum trying to climb the mountain versus town trying to climb the mountain is that town are kind of clueless and eager to sprint the entire way up while scum are smarter and understand it's going to be a very long climb.

[Aristeia]

if I sprained my ankle would you carry me up the mountain even if we didn't share the same alignment Dats?

[Aristeia]

Of course I would. <3 Even if you might stab me in the back when we get to the top.

I would sooner jump than harm you <3

[Aristeia]

pace himself, conserve energy for later, figure out who is mislimmable

[Aristeia]

pace himself, conserve energy for later, figure out who is mislimmable

I feel like Shirou is drawing a lot of unnecessary attention to himself for achieving those goals

do you feel like he is not accomplishing his goals at the present?

[Aristeia]

has norwee town ever caught shirou scum and gotten him limmed?

[Aristeia]

ok assuming we're both town

one of us is right and one of us is wrong

probability says you will be right but i have a feeling i am right

i dont actually care about winning so i am not going to effort and persuade you because i think i would enjoy you losing to scum shirou more

[Aristeia]

VOTE: una

[Aristeia]

i dont actually have any reason to think i would be better at reading shirou than any of you who all seem to have more experience with him

but it would be amusing to me if i was right and you were wrong

[Aristeia]

ok assuming we're both town

one of us is right and one of us is wrong

probability says you will be right but i have a feeling i am right

i dont actually care about winning so i am not going to effort and persuade you because i think i would enjoy you losing to scum shirou more

Is this in response to me?

yes

[Aristeia]

It's frustrating to get naked voted after repeatedly re explaining nitpicked "huh what you mean" responses to my posts

Instead of like, you disliking the original posts and finding them scummy.

Like fmpov I reexplained a point to two people I think are scum as an exercise in civic duty since they might not be scum

Then Ari naked vote

-_-

Mafia gaemplae

sorry

[Aristeia]

She's done nothing to make me townread her

And everyone else

has

done something to make you townread them? Because this doesn't make sense to me otherwise, but I also feel like this is not it.

why couldn’t it simply be that klick has more of an expectation for aristeia to do something towny than others? i kinda think i do

you have too much faith in me <3

[Aristeia]

do you have high expectations of me?

[Aristeia]

do you have high expectations of me?

Can't say that I don't. :3

uWu

[Aristeia]

i think limming una and lucian will end the game

im probly wrong

[Aristeia]

i drank too much sake at lunch

[Aristeia]

maybe I told Aubrey in the mafia PT perhaps you should vote me to find out!

[Aristeia]

my solve is currently at una-lucian-shirou

im never voting lucian

a lot of people are vetoing shirou

so im voting una

[Aristeia]

btw i absolutely suck at reading una

[Aristeia]

I still haven't finished reading Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru.

I think it's probably because I never want the story to end because I will be so sad when it does.

[Aristeia]

I like it so far

Uno-san is precious

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

i dont really respond well to terrorism please dont get nasty.

[Aristeia]

By the way. I've never once misread Norwe as scum when he's town.

can you provide receipts for this please?

[Aristeia]

similarly @ Norwe can you provide a counterexample ? like a game where Shirou reads you incorrectly?

[Aristeia]

VOTE: NorwegianBoyEE

[Aristeia]

so?

[Aristeia]

it feels like your complaints with shirou are more about his process than his accuracy

[Aristeia]

Like i don’t mind sheeping but isn’t that a big gap to cross to go from that to voting me when Shirou hasn’t explained their arguments yet.

his argument is that he has a history of reading you correctly and that you have meta tells that he knows are 100% accurate and won't reveal because he doesn't want you to know them and make it more difficult for him to read you in the future.

You basically agreed with him that he's never misread you.

So I'm trusting his read of you atp because why not.

[Aristeia]

boys and their secret meta tells and treehouses

[Aristeia]

nsg tell?

[Aristeia]

"Turboflip her"

[Aristeia]

how likely does anyone think it is that mafias would bus day one of this setup?

i think it depends on the situation.

which one would you like to talk about?

[Aristeia]

mmm i think in that scenario it would be like a shirou-una-nor team and he would have to hope it wins but i dont think people let him live at elo so it feels suboptimal to do it

[Aristeia]

this setup is deceptively fast in terms of how it plays so i think bussing is more viable as a strategy than most take it on surface level.

[Aristeia]

mmm i think in that scenario it would be like a shirou-una-nor team and he would have to hope it wins but i dont think people let him live at elo so it feels suboptimal to do it

oh hm

i do not think it would be una as the third because una would have to survive four more eliminations and she was the leading wagon at the time shirou started the norwegianboyee push

also let’s sacrifice a teammate for free doesn’t seem like the sort of plan una would be super inclined to sign off on but maybe i am incorrect about that

you are comparing to overall odds. i think the correct comparison is to what happens if you do nothing

[Aristeia]

thinking about it more they do seem like such good friends maybe they would just not do a bus because it doesnt seem fun.

[Aristeia]

well shirou cant claim to have a 100% secret meta read on random third target

[Aristeia]

i think incentive wise it doesnt make sense for shirou to bus norw here because the only reason to really do it would be to change the trajectory of the game which was moving towards flipping una.

[Aristeia]

thinking about it more they do seem like such good friends maybe they would just not do a bus because it doesnt seem fun.

yeah seems kinda unlikely and suboptimal yeah

though i do wonder if friendship between mafias makes bussing more or less likely

mmm i think it makes the bus look better but its still icky.

i generally dont enjoy bussing my friends but im not shirou.

[Aristeia]

bus drivers dont pick their routes though it is usually selected for them.

[Aristeia]

cakes is like a popup ad

[Aristeia]

i giggled at that thanks

[Aristeia]

sometimes i think it makes me happier when hes mafia because i will win either way

[Aristeia]

lol

[Aristeia]

@aristeia now is this more likely to come from partners tho

i can see it coming from partners but im not sure i want to give shirou that many creativity points as scum

[Aristeia]

like it isnt difficult for shirou mafia to do it while not partnered with norw

i do agree with his destination so its kind of whatever

its a lot of handwaving to pretend hes doing something when he just ended up sheeping my solution.

[Aristeia]

maybe im just confbiased for dumb reasons

[Aristeia]

VOTE: una

[Aristeia]

hm,

a somewhat interesting interpretation of norwegianboyee’s path from

‘i am going to fight this with my whole heart that’s why i am posting about una right now’

to

‘flip aristeia after you flip me!!’

but okay

i have seen him make unreasonable trajectory changes when he gets pushed as town so its not that bad.

[Aristeia]

my solve is currently at una-lucian-shirou

im never voting lucian

a lot of people are vetoing shirou

so im voting una

you ended up here but you took us on a scenic tour of Trondheim first.

[Aristeia]

sure

[Aristeia]

she is surrendering to the power of anime and love

[Aristeia]

oooh which one

[Aristeia]

i wish dats would watch anime with me

[Aristeia]

this could be the most convoluted bus of all time from shirou to una

[Aristeia]

this could be the most convoluted bus of all time from shirou to una

it has all the ingredients of a good bus

the early townread(unreciprocated)
the prodding/poking semi seriously
the scenic detour to Trondheim to blow up the initial wagon
the dramatic reveal and the turnaround
and now the ate about remorse and hurt feelings

we just need the surrender to anime and love ending and it would be perfect

[Aristeia]

this could be the most convoluted bus of all time from shirou to una

Nah, my JK9+ bus was better

Cop counterclaims on LyLo except there's no real cop

There’s was a game where my scumbuddy fakeclaimed parity cop iirc and bus guiltied me and rode to a win since someone was informed a GF was in the game but no cop existed for it to interact with
twas a fun win

No like

You don't understand the JK9+ situation...it wasn't a mechanically good idea at all. It was just pure madness born out of the scum PT being bored.

All members of the scum team were alive and most people already were scum reading Wooper (town), but I was like "oh hey guys I've a great idea!"

they were like "what? we've already won the game probably"

but I said along the lines of "Nah winning is overrated let's fucking claim cop and the other one counterclaims it. Then whoever is remaining claims fucking vigilante and we make a tinfoil theory of how skitter is Serial Killer"

People reactions when they realized both cops were fake...

unforgettable

! I believe at the time it was also the longest Open Game of all time, dunno if that record still holds out.

Also yes, I'm typing all this to give free ammo for Ari to attack me claiming it's a "bus" if Una is scum.

Bus bus

[Aristeia]

Lucian is never getting off his fence if you two make him feel all self conscious about it

[Aristeia]

I can come up with some bad reasons if you want

[Aristeia]

so what's your take on Una now?

[Aristeia]

sorry for annoying you

[Aristeia]

sorry for annoying you

Spoiler: for Ari’s eyes only

Can I ask you something a bit weird? It’s not game-related

Spoiler:

I'd rather not sorry. if it's important you can pm me after the game is over and I'll answer if I'm comfortable with it.

[Aristeia]

It ok I know people have fun like that I don't like breaking it up when people have fun.

I just cannot function in that >_>

[Aristeia]

*hugs*

<3

[Aristeia]

I hope you enjoy watching anime with your gf

[Aristeia]

I also feel if either Ari or Una are scum, both would bus a bit.

If neither of Ari/Una are scum, they are still the best scum hunters in this playerlist most likely so why not

imo pina is the best scum hunter in this pl and it is not particularly close.

[Aristeia]

Ari does the fact I stopped voting Una makes you think I was bussing her after all and now I'm trying to dismantle her wagon

"again"

?



Why can't it simply be love Ari?! Anime and love is the real answer to everything.

you can love someone and also bus them.

[Aristeia]

*

clears throat

*

Norwe

is, dare I say,

LOCKTOWN

At the moment I believe at least 2/3 of [Cakez, Totos, Pina] are town, if we're lucky maybe all of them

Probably at least one scum in [Lucian/Una], maybe two if we're lucky

Ari may or not be scum I feel she can flip either way and it wouldn't surprise me. I don't feel she did anything significantly more likely to come from scum!her but I don't see any reason to town read any of her posts so far and she posted relatively a lot already (which is kinda bad but idk maybe I suck at identifying town!her).

Also, I got us out of apathy on solving. That's my D1 contribution thank you very much for reading my blogpost and I expect many intense, fervent, scorching hot town reads on me for this

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:
Okay I guess I'm the only one that reads this and goes "what the fuck"?
Like, I wish the meta was in a place where hyperconfidence went consistently unrewarded + when gambits like this didn't work because everyone is like "yeah we're two days into d1 stop randomly tunneling people," but it seems to me like people do (or at least did when I was playing) this often enough unironically that it provided cover for Shirou to do it.

I guess I

mmm i think in that scenario it would be like a shirou-una-nor team and he would have to hope it wins but i dont think people let him live at elo so it feels suboptimal to do it

This post sells me on serious possibility of Ari!scum. The reasons why are hard to describe but it feels like attacking a strawman. It's like someone else is like "x seems potentially true" and then Aristeia is like "in x scenario a, b, c, and d all have to be true and e would also have to be true and e seems impossible". Nothing Ari has said gives me reason to townread them, and so
VOTE: Aristeia—I think I buy this at least for now.

You may wonder, "what does Shirou mean by

locktown

exactly?", and I've the perfect example for you:

Imagine there's somehow 4 players in the final day (Norwe included) and this setup wasn't mountainous. One of them is mechanically confirmed town, and there's only one scum alive. The PoE should be [Norwe, X, Y] then...however, X and Y claim masons.

Given that there's only one scum alive, naive you may conclude that X and Y are also confirmed town therefore the last scum is Norwee.

That's an incorrect conclusion. The correct answer to that paradigm is that one of the townies is fakeclaiming and throwing, and if the moderator somehow confirms later on in a flip that Norwe was, in fact, scum, you should instantly assume that the game was secretly bastard and a great injustice is being committed towards cute Norwee on being considered scum.

Like, obviously Shirou isn't that serious about Norwee being town. After the first time I will no longer ever take you seriously when you say wildly overconfident things, and I don't see the strong argument for Norwee being locktown.

@aristeia now is this more likely to come from partners tho

i can see it coming from partners but im not sure i want to give shirou that many creativity points as scum

yeah, i'm not sure i see this coming from town

Lucian does look like a scum reaction to a dumb fight between townies to me

What.

i vaguely think lucian is probably town here?

But Shurro, how do you know that blonde anime girl is

actually

town?

Idk man if you don't town read Norwee in this game you are never gonna town read him I think

If Petapan came around and flipped him scum I would be instantly pressing the reporting button as much as I love petapan

It's sure to be a secretly bastard game in that universe. The thought of "Norwee is scum here" does not enter my brain anymore at this point, he's basically a confirmed Innocent Child to me.

i mean obviously this is not Really Actually true unless you're scum... i wonder what would happen if we all strictly restricted ourselves to saying true things

I don't feel like he took much of a stance as much as he tried to make it look like as if he has a stance on what is happening in the thread

How am I supposed to take a stance on "hehe guys we should totally kill Norwee I'm not saying why tho just trust me"?

very slightly townread lucian for this

This game was so dead before but now it's so alive that I can't read all posts within time...

:// yeah, i'm going to start responding to only the last 3-4 pages because otherwise I'll be continually catching up

my pronouns are she and her

[Aristeia]

i am fine with being voted off but please do me the courtesy of at least using the correct pronouns when you do so.

[Aristeia]

I also didn’t particurarly like the theories about Shirou bussing from Aristeia. I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills so mafia must really try to make the powerful and potentially problematic players less influental. And Shirou imo is probably one of the strongest players in this list simply because of how menacing he is. Scum nightkill them early almost every game no matter how bad their reads may be at that moment.
Not fanboying, just an observation.

there are nightkills

[Aristeia]

hi fam

hi!

[Aristeia]

you should analyze whether I am town <3

[Aristeia]

I also didn’t particurarly like the theories about Shirou bussing from Aristeia. I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills so mafia must really try to make the powerful and potentially problematic players less influental. And Shirou imo is probably one of the strongest players in this list simply because of how menacing he is. Scum nightkill them early almost every game no matter how bad their reads may be at that moment.
Not fanboying, just an observation.

there are nightkills

I thought mountainous meant no nightkills.

you're such a qt

[Aristeia]

mountainous means mafia versus townies with no power roles

mafia have a nightkill

we have 4 mislims to get 2 mafia eliminations

[Aristeia]

well i guess 3 mislims if you consider the 4th mislim losing

[Aristeia]

Dats you make me so happy sometimes ty <3.

[Aristeia]

Dats you make me so happy sometimes ty <3.

This seems like a weirdly disconnected tone when Lucian is literally expressing a scumread on you.
I’m very ok with an Ari wagon right now even if i’m voting Una still.

Well its that he says he doesnt want to that makes my heart melt

i dont actually care if people scumread me or vote me off because caring about that is not fun for me.

[Aristeia]

i just want it to be known if i get flipped that i am not detached from this game. i probably am more attached and more aware of what every player in this game is doing than anyone except maybe shirou and una. whether you listen to me or handwave me as crazy detached lady is up to you.

[Aristeia]

i wrote una but i meant pina

[Aristeia]

Well its that he says he doesnt want to that makes my heart melt

I wanna keep playing with you... I wanted to link you a song that I found recently and thought was kinda nice, but I went to relisten to it and it didn't exactly fit, so I didn't.

you're too kind to me <3 and I am really sorry if my read on you is wrong

[Aristeia]

it's not like detached from a playing standpoint

i'm just not seeing the solveyness. it feels like dance game tbh.

i already said who i think can be flipped to win the game im not sure what else you want me to solve for.

[Aristeia]

and I am really sorry if my read on you is wrong

Why aren't you explaining why I'm scum? If you think so and are fine with being flipped here?

because i am fine with scum you beating this town. i would be your biggest cheerleader in fact

[Aristeia]

because i am fine with scum you beating this town.

At face value, this feels like lowkey gamethrowing, which. Hm.

gamethrowing involves intent

[Aristeia]

and I am really sorry if my read on you is wrong

Why aren't you explaining why I'm scum? If you think so and are fine with being flipped here?

because i am fine with scum you beating this town. i would be your biggest cheerleader in fact

waw rude²

every town that has ever miselimmed me has lost :/

[Aristeia]

I don't want to stop the Ari wagon though because I do think that it can be scum and stopping a scum elimination feels bad and I don't need to be blamed more k'thx.

"she can be scum"

[Aristeia]

I've officially stopped thinking about Norwe's alignment since that 1v1 and I do wonder if it's gonna be another depressing Meuh situation

I do have better reasons to town read Norwe here though I think, so ?probably? not

he didnt even know the scum could nightkill

[Aristeia]

thats just too cute to fake

[Aristeia]

i just want it to be known if i get flipped that i am not detached from this game. i probably am more attached and more aware of what every player in this game is doing than anyone except maybe shirou and una. whether you listen to me or handwave me as crazy detached lady is up to you.

what

i was annoyed by std's characterization of me being detached

[Aristeia]

i have no confidence in reading tgp and i dont know if what you posted is ai or useful for sorting him at all.

[Aristeia]

why aren't you trying to survive harder if town?

are you demotivated to effort? is it because of the weird mood of this game?

i am motivated to survive as either alignment so whether i do survivalistic things is not really alignment indicative.

i understand how to convince people not to vote me but doing it in my previous games have been unpleasant and caused people i like to not want to play with me anymore. i decided to stop doing that as a result.

[Aristeia]

Ironically enough, Ari being "fine" with dying here is what is giving me pause but not enough pause.

She was also fine with dying on Dance Game though? She didn't try too hard.

well me dying in dance game would be good for my team because it led to you forcing maria, make vpb look bad and set my team up for endgame.

i play to my win conditions.

[Aristeia]

Ironically enough, Ari being "fine" with dying here is what is giving me pause but not enough pause.

She was also fine with dying on Dance Game though? She didn't try too hard.

well me dying in dance game would be good for my team because it led to you forcing maria, make vpb look bad and set my team up for endgame.

i play to my win conditions.

I see, so had I or someone else been right on the rest of the scum team while pushing you, would you have efforted more to survive or do something else?

maybe. i dunno i was never really that invested in winning i just wanted to dance and have fun.

[Aristeia]

im not always motivated by wanting to win

i used to be more of a win at all costs mentality but its taxing and unfun after some time so ive been trying to tone it down and just live in the moment/have fun.

like getting upset about being voted out isnt really healthy for me so ive mostly made myself happier with it to make games more enjoyable for myself.

[Aristeia]

ate is designed to convince people that you are town because it does things that people think do not come from scum.

my answers to shirou are explaining why i dont care to survive as either alignment which is what i would be saying if i was mafia here

it is not really ate because its just stating facts

you should at least get the basic facts of what is happening correct.

[Aristeia]

for example ate would be telling you that i dont think youve done even a bare minimum of what is reasonable for you to do as town but i am going to try not to be tilted by it because i find being tilted at things beyond my control to be offputing and unenjoyable.

[Aristeia]

actually i guess that wouldnt be ate because its unlikely to make you emotionally induced to unvote me and probly will get you to double down so it would just be me venting at you.

[Aristeia]

if you're not going to solve you should probly not tell others not to solve either

[Aristeia]

If I’m using incorrect terms I’m sorry. But largely, I don’t care that you don’t care about your role in the game anymore. I want you gone regardless. And people shouldn’t give you a pass for it.

i have never said i dont care about my role in this game. i said i dont mind being flipped if you all need to see my alignment to solve the game.

do you care who my partners are?
do you care about getting my alignment correct?
what do you even care about.

[Aristeia]

hypothetically speaking aubrey if you flip me and then lose the game to people who i thought were scum would you blame yourself for not listening to me or blame me for not being more convincing to you?

[Aristeia]

i think this conversation is unpleasant and we should probably not talk to each other. apologies for being tilted at you.

[Aristeia]

no my point was that you havent engaged with me at all in terms of trying to sort me or figure out who my partners are or anything and its p fustrating to see you then tell the person who is actually engaging with me to like not sort me or solve.

[Aristeia]

like shrug whatever do whatever you want

[Aristeia]

which read do you want

[Aristeia]

top trs pina, norw
too srs una, lucian

its hard for me to feel good about any reads because i feel like a lot of people havent done much

pinas approach to the game just feels like how town her solves a puzzle.
norw feels townie in the kind of goofy clueless way i always find him to be when hes town

lucian and una dont really feel like the way i expect them to play when theyre town which is probly not a very good or fair way to read them, they're both people i am more familiar with.

[Aristeia]

i feel like aubrey can just be clueless town because the way hes playing the game feels like he doesnt have any idea what is going on. his initial vote on me is for a reason so bad that i kind of think scum dont actually vote on it because its just so bad. ive never played with him before so i dont know if its in his wheelhouse as scum.

[Aristeia]

mindmelded with stds catchup a bit esp on that part about aubrey . i think hes more careful when hes scum and here hes just kind of vibing. no real confidence on this read but i think its probly right

[Aristeia]

gamma feels town in terms of contribution and what hes commenting on. ive misread him the last time we played, hes not the easiest for me to read but nothings really jumped out to me in terms of like scummy things so far. he gets emotional as both alignments on several trigger points and it felt like the way he reacted to una early on was unaligned.

[Aristeia]

shirou is shirou. i think hes felt more townie but like it also happens that if hes scum this is the line of play that will win him the game so why wouldnt he do it.

he wants control as either alignment and being a loud and active voice is how he gets it. everyone thinks hes town so its pointless for me to argue with the masses. if hes town he likely gets nightkilled before elo and if hes not town he probably will win this game.

if im wrong about una/lucian and shirou is mafia he will probly just win the game so im not going to spend a lot of time on that world and just be smug about it afterwards and tease him about it for fun.

[Aristeia]

klick started fine and fell off a bit.

I think he has issues with keeping up with a game regardless of alignment but more so as mafia.

My general feeling is that he actually believes i could be scum but if he disappears its concerning.

if hes town it will get more obvious over time.

[Aristeia]

gamma feels town in terms of contribution and what hes commenting on. ive misread him the last time we played, hes not the easiest for me to read but nothings really jumped out to me in terms of like scummy things so far. he gets emotional as both alignments on several trigger points and it felt like the way he reacted to una early on was unaligned.

Hi I go by female pronouns specifically now

noted sorry about that.

[Aristeia]

if im wrong about una/lucian and shirou is mafia he will probly just win the game so im not going to spend a lot of time on that world and just be smug about it afterwards and tease him about it for fun.

Why would anyone be smug about losing a game.

well if i think someone is mafia and everyone else says no and then they all lose to him i will feel a bit smug. perhaps that is abnormal.

[Aristeia]

if im wrong about una/lucian and shirou is mafia he will probly just win the game so im not going to spend a lot of time on that world and just be smug about it afterwards and tease him about it for fun.

Why would anyone be smug about losing a game.

well if i think someone is mafia and everyone else says no and then they all lose to him i will feel a bit smug. perhaps that is abnormal.

Yeah but in a game of mafia one still gotta convince others to actually win.
If a player can't do that it's like doing a really fancy flip jumping off the diving board but when landing they break their back.

i am capable of being convincing i just dont like to do it because it gets bad reviews

[Aristeia]

its also unpleasant for everyone so

[Aristeia]

lucian and una dont really feel like the way i expect them to play when theyre town

which is probly not a very good or fair way to read them, they're both people i am more familiar with.

Can you expand on the bolded? For Lucian, do you mean the laidback approach he's taken with this game? For Una, I'm having a bit of difficulty tracking your scumread there.

Also is it fair to say that you're pretty confident in these scumreads?

lucian has three completed town games and they're all significantly townier than his play in this game.

he doesnt feel like hes particularly eager to share takes or engage in solving, i didnt like some of the takes he's had this game because they don't feel organic and it feels like he's more invested in self meta/defense than actually pushing foward to find mafia.

[Aristeia]

I think Una's entrance felt kind of awkward and she's more spontaneous when she's town. I don't really understand why she voted for me because i don't think she ever felt i was mafia and she's one of the few people i'd expect to get my alignment correct and if she thought i was mafia i'd think she would be a lot more forceful about it.

[Aristeia]

the confidence level in my reads isnt exactly great, like i feel reads based on how i expect players to play tend to be some of my least accurate reads because they can always just not play that way because of reasons i dont understand.

one thing that gives me pause is that id expect the two of them to be more fun and happy if they rolled scum together because they're both such a delight to be mafia with and the lack of energy is kind of throwing me for a loop.

perhaps i am just wrong and i am tunneled because im more familiar with both of them than much of the playerlist and i dont really see what is going on in the rest of the pl because the rest of the pl is simply not doing much.

i dont feel like tremendous overwhelming feeling of being right and you probably shouldnt trust me to be right even if i say i did.

i just kind of miss solving with my friends and im confused why they are playing this way.

[Aristeia]

do you have any scumreads on your read through? are you done catching up to present?

[Aristeia]

i guess when i say inorganic i mean they feel like snippets designed to look townie and not part of a story that is coherent.

[Aristeia]

the self meta was refering to when he was talking about his tryhard scum games - i thought it felt kind of weird in a way because it was saying something thats somewhat incoherent to me.

[Aristeia]

i feel tremendously guilty about this scumread because i think i hold him up to a much higher standard of townplay than everyone else in the game and i also might be irrationally overconcerned about how good he is at the scum alignment so i just feel kind of bad about it regardless of what his actual alignment is.

i guess im just kind of needy and want him to pocket me like he usually does and thats probably not fair of me - hence why i wouldnt actually vote for him because the story i want to play out is not this one.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Una

I'm not sure if my current Klick vote is actually doing anything. And I know "giving Ari space" is a dangerous game if she's scum, but I dunno. I'm having doubts. I'd like other people's thoughts on her recent posting as well.

@Klick, mind giving an answer to the above? Who do you want to vote currently?

Pedit: lol

If your choice is Una, Ari or myself, the correct answer is definitely Ari

The best way I can describe Ari is through comparison with Shirou and giuseppina, as the other frequent posters
All three of them have plenty of things to say
I read Shirou's and pina's posts and think that the angle they're playing the game at would be an odd one to choose to play at as scum; basically they're both doing a lot of things that add no clear value to their perception. I think they post things because they think them and want people to know what they think, regardless of how it makes them look.

I read Aristeia's posts and I don't get that. Like the latest reads she posted felt like she was posting reads because having a stance on the game is a good thing to have. It felt very perception-focused.
I hadn't considered it before literally typing this but I think that's the crux of my issue with Aristeia. I get the sense that Ari is acutely aware of and concerned with how she is going to be perceived when she posts things. I think that's something that town sometimes does but scum necessarily always does. And the fact that I'm consistently feeling that way with Ari posts is what has her leaning scum for me.

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

[Aristeia]

lucian has three completed town games and they're all significantly townier than his play in this game.

he doesnt feel like hes particularly eager to share takes or engage in solving, i didnt like some of the takes he's had this game because they don't feel organic and it feels like he's more invested in self meta/defense than actually pushing foward to find mafia.

This part annoys me. This is the exact argument I had towards me last game, "the other two games he's played were so townie and he's struggling here, must be scum". Spoiler alert. Was not scum. And I'm not sure why you'd expect me to be eager in sharing takes or engaging in solving, when I'm consistently being shot down and called scum for ??? reasons, and I don't feel like people actually want to interact with me properly.

I am getting doubts on Ari, though... Like, the most recent flurry of solving feels like the most townie thing she's done this game. And the way she's talking about me/Una (more applicable to Una since she's a wagon currently) doesn't feel like she is trying very hard to convince people to vote there, which I feel like scum-her would be more likely to do here.

i am not trying very hard to convince people to vote for my solution because i like both you and una very much and i am acutely aware that i can be pretty wrong here and i would be p upset if i got either of you voted out and i was wrong.



i hope you and her are town and catch bad scum and we can all win together


i am sorry my read annoys you. i wish for nothing more than to be carried up this mountain in your arms.

[Aristeia]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

i do not post for my own understanding

i post so others can understand my thoughts

i understand myself just fine without posting

[Aristeia]

i think the most townie thing klick has done is that i dont think scum klick treats me with this level of uncharitableness. its so over the top that i feel like it usually comes from tunneled townies.

[Aristeia]

i think the most townie thing klick has done is that i dont think scum klick treats me with this level of uncharitableness. its so over the top that i feel like it usually comes from tunneled townies.

Uncharitableness?
I don't really see how my treatment of you has been uncharitable
Can you expand

toto asked me for my reads and you called me scum for giving him reads

[Aristeia]

like it feels like you are viewing my actions through the lens of she is scum and she is doing this because she is scum without really considering if I would do this if I am town.

[Aristeia]

even your point about me being scum because i "want to be perceived" as town

like why wouldnt i want to be perceived as town if im town?

[Aristeia]

the comparison to pina and shirou is also kind of gross because its like ok sure there is a difference in that you can say my posting is more self-pres than either of them

but niether of them are in danger of being elimmed so why wouldnt it be?

you dont really consider my motives as town you just kind of say oh this is scum motivated if shes scum.

[Aristeia]

like do you think if shirou or pina were at e-2 and there were multiple people not on the wagon saying they were scummy that they would not try to self-pres at that point?

its just a comparison that doesnt make any sense to me

[Aristeia]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

i do not post for my own understanding

i post so others can understand my thoughts

i understand myself just fine without posting

i am explaining to you why i do what i do.

i am not sure what more you expect me to do at this point.


Okay
That's not going to do much to resolve my ability to read you though

[Aristeia]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

i do not post for my own understanding

i post so others can understand my thoughts

i understand myself just fine without posting

Okay
That's not going to do much to resolve my ability to read you though

the only thing i can do for you is to explain to you why i do what i do

you seem to think it means im scum but it baffles me because not only am i not scum i dont even understand why you think it is scum indicative in the first place.

[Aristeia]

i have never ever been accused of being scum for posting reads because someone asked me for reads

its such a bizarre thing to say about someone. it is beyond my comprehension why you think this.

[Aristeia]

its literally the least charitable thing you can say about someone just trying to play the game.

id be ok if you said something like i think ari is scum because her read on ____ doesnt make sense to me because _____

because then at least there would be a reason that makes sense and we can discuss that.

instead you are like saying she is scum because she responded to a post asking for reads by posting reads.

its infuriating.

[Aristeia]

i am talking about what you literally said

you can correct me if i am wrong about any of it

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Una

I'm not sure if my current Klick vote is actually doing anything. And I know "giving Ari space" is a dangerous game if she's scum, but I dunno. I'm having doubts. I'd like other people's thoughts on her recent posting as well.

@Klick, mind giving an answer to the above? Who do you want to vote currently?

Pedit: lol

If your choice is Una, Ari or myself, the correct answer is definitely Ari

The best way I can describe Ari is through comparison with Shirou and giuseppina, as the other frequent posters
All three of them have plenty of things to say
I read Shirou's and pina's posts and think that the angle they're playing the game at would be an odd one to choose to play at as scum; basically they're both doing a lot of things that add no clear value to their perception. I think they post things because they think them and want people to know what they think, regardless of how it makes them look.

I read Aristeia's posts and I don't get that. Like the latest reads she posted felt like she was posting reads because having a stance on the game is a good thing to have. It felt very perception-focused.
I hadn't considered it before literally typing this but I think that's the crux of my issue with Aristeia. I get the sense that Ari is acutely aware of and concerned with how she is going to be perceived when she posts things. I think that's something that town sometimes does but scum necessarily always does. And the fact that I'm consistently feeling that way with Ari posts is what has her leaning scum for me.

[Aristeia]

you literally claimed i posted reads because ____

when i am literally responding to someone else asking me for reads

[Aristeia]

if this isnt useful to you for sorting me i think we should stop talking about it.

i think you are treating me uncharitably

you think you aren't.

lets just agree to disagree.

[Aristeia]

it would be nice if some people had the capacity for self reflection

[Aristeia]

i dont think pina!scum would decide to get the day to slow down so she could talk in circles with no conclusions because its pointless.

[Aristeia]

…..what in the perfectionist hell am I witnessing. Like is this typically an issue for you or something in games?

have you ever once considered that other people might be different than you

[Aristeia]

maybe I am the problem

maybe it is me

[Aristeia]

its just a game

having fun is more important than winning.

if you want to end the day on me just do it.

[Aristeia]

i dont even think tgp is mafia

[Aristeia]

i dont even think tgp is mafia

Maybe not but is that worse than dying?

The probability isn't zero, you know that

because me flipping would get some people who are tunneled on me to actually play the game.

and tgp flipping town would keep the game state exactly the same except closer to losing

[Aristeia]

i can lend you my vote for limming me if you want

[Aristeia]

because i think its better win rate to blow me up than lim town-tgp

[Aristeia]

like emotionally i am kind of spent dealing with this game and i think being dead and you knowing my reads are from town me is useful

the win condition is to lim two scum not to never lim town

[Aristeia]

there is nothing that is outside of my scumrange and the only way you know im town is if you flip me so why not do it.

[Aristeia]

My pain is eternal.

pain is how you know you're alive

[Aristeia]

i have never blamed you for anything

VOTE: ari

[Aristeia]

if im right about lucian/una then tgp is like 1/10 chance of being scum

i literally have no experience reading tgp