Mini Normal 2033: Dolphins (Game Over)

[EzekelRAGE]

Hello

[EzekelRAGE]

I don’t read them as scummy either figure both sides are just kicking the tires.

Are you guys serious about the Dva thing in regards to the replacement? Is so that is scummy to me.

*shrug*

[EzekelRAGE]

"If you guys are serious then I think it's scummy but if not I don't think it's scummy I'm town btw"

2 diff situations are they not?

[EzekelRAGE]

Just to clarify, when I say them I mean voting going on for dis/Db etc and that whole group.

Dva votes and ppl bringing up the other person drops out of red roles, I don’t like and I read as scummy. Couldn’t tell if they are serious or not.

[EzekelRAGE]

I like GuerillaWoo and Doughboy's push on EzekelRAGE. It's clear that at least Alchemist21 and I were serious, so why didn't EzekelRAGE vote one of us?

VOTE: EzekelRAGE

@DVa: I don't know how I would have checked that, but if this is about ongoing games let's change the subject.

I usually make statements while holding my vote.When I do vote I can just refer to my posts I made earlier. i post in the moment because I can be forgetful. it’s my play style/habit. *shrug*

Which brings me to this post.

Rage does typically vote who he thinks he is scummy so that comment does raise concerns with me.

You make this statement like we have played in a number of games.
You worded it in a way to make me seem like im playing differently/scummy.

We have played 1 game together, my first game on this board.

In that game I voted day 1 because Lafayette asked for votes, I obliged.

Day 2 I voted you because I had a theory on you and didn’t like your hammer.

Day 3 where I basically made it me vs ff as the lynch, i attacked ff thru most of the day phase and never voted him, even though the lynch was guaranteed to be me vs him. When I did vote, I voted myself.

Throughout that game I made posts on how I thought something Lafayette did appeared scummy. On more than one occasion Lafayette called me out for not voting him. Again I explained I hold my votes.

So can you provide proof about how I “typically” vote who I think is scummy so early? I provided examples on how that is not the case at all.

[EzekelRAGE]

I'm not a fan of how he said "I read it as scummy". Like, clearly the origin of his 'suspicion' isn't a read, it's Alchemist's meta guess.

Feels like a good place to nest my vote rn VOTE: Ezekiel but I still wanna hear something serious from Saudade.

Well, can’t do anything about that, but it won’t be the last time you see that phrase or something similar to it from me.

Seriousness of the guess - my bad on missing/forgetting that part. Was reading thread earlier, was about to make post, got busy but tha part about lynching based on such a weak angle stuck out to me. When I got a little bit of free time again I made that post instead of going back and rereading that part. Only thing that changes is I view them as scummy for attempting it.

[EzekelRAGE]

You make this statement like we have played in a number of games.

No I made a statement based off my experience of you. 1 game is still better than no games.

Provide proof, otherwise this reads to me like you were trying to add fire to a wagon.

[EzekelRAGE]

My problem is your wording. It’s very misleading. If you said I played 1 game with rage and he seemed to vote scummy. I would’ve corrected you on the seem part.

Using typically to me implies you have a good range of data to go on,certainly more than one game.

If I go to the casino once and win 2k, I can’t go typically I win 2k at the casino, because I haven’t been enuff times to say that.

[EzekelRAGE]

You make this statement like we have played in a number of games.

No I made a statement based off my experience of you. 1 game is still better than no games.

Provide proof, otherwise this reads to me like you were trying to add fire to a wagon.

The game we played together where you thought I was scummy and basically wouldn’t vote elsewhere or even unvote when asked.

Do I need to link it?

All I did was ask you to provide proof of the statement that you made. You just said I thought you were scum that game, why would I do anything you ask me to?

You could barely come up with one example for your statement. There was no reason to even bring it up at all.
VOTE: Doughboy

[EzekelRAGE]

He was partly responsible for town losing cause he couldn’t get past somebody he found scummy to the point he defended scum which I pointed out already ye I can barely provide an example?

I’ll ignore him for now but if a wagon forms I’ll be happy to hammer

Are you serious? Where did I defend scum in that game, back up the bs you are spewing please. You were scummy that game. I wasnt the only player who thought so since you were -1 from being lynched, 1 other town and 1 scum on your vote. Other town players brought up how you played a bigger role in distracting town from hunting scum with you arguing with another player. If asuska nvm cc’d you as scum in that game you were gonna try to lynch me or ff who were both vt.

Sorry for bringing up all this meta stuff, but he was the first to do it with a misleading statement.

You also keep flip flopping on reasoning. First it was I typically vote my scum read, which you haven’t proven. Then it’s i was so scum reading you I defended scum to vote you, which is false and you didn’t provide proof.

[EzekelRAGE]

I don't think prior grudges are very conducive to scumhunting tbh, although I think meta can be a partial reason to vote for someone I don't like thinking of it as the main course? But it's good that you brought up his voting confidence, it is definitely of interest here.

I'm not a fan of how he said "I read it as scummy". Like, clearly the origin of his 'suspicion' isn't a read, it's Alchemist's meta guess.

Feels like a good place to nest my vote rn VOTE: Ezekiel but I still wanna hear something serious from Saudade.

Well, can’t do anything about that, but it won’t be the last time you see that phrase or something similar to it from me.

Seriousness of the guess - my bad on missing/forgetting that part. Was reading thread earlier, was about to make post, got busy but tha part about lynching based on such a weak angle stuck out to me. When I got a little bit of free time again I made that post instead of going back and rereading that part. Only thing that changes is I view them as scummy for attempting it.

My issue isn't that you didn't read that he was serious, it's that you asked. My issue isn't the statement "I read him as scummy" in a vacuum, it's a pretty innocuous statement, it's the context you presented it in where it wasn't a read on a player, and it clearly wasn't one you reached on your own.

The first is an attempt to get permission from town to vote for someone. The second is a misrepresentation. Together, they read like you're trying to buddy up to the thread, both by piggybacking off someone else's early wagons and then by presenting yourself as scumhunting.

So, one last time, what are

your

reads? Why is Doughboy your vote and not Scioness/Dva? Why did you immediately trust that Alchemist is town and not possibly scum gambiting for an early lynch?

Why is it feeling more and more like you're not going through a townie process?

Those are reasonable asks at this point

Confidence in voting- this is why I am on db. Him doing that is partially playing a role in you going after me, I read that as misleading and scummy. He brought up my voting confidence, i told him to back it up. How are you reading that and still believe db’s word on my confidence?

As far as you seeing it as asking permission- your wrong on how you interpret it.
Also, I never said I thought alchemist was town so why are you implying I did?

[EzekelRAGE]

My vote is remaining on db. One game with him, but in that game he would argue with ppl til he was blue on the face, especially since he thought he was right and you were wrong. I called him out on his bs statement. Especially now since I saw the statement “it raises concerns with me”

When I told him to provide proof to back up his statement he goes a route of discrediting me instead of backing up his clam. Mentions how I scum read him and wouldn’t unvote him. Mentions I defended scum in that game, which is an outright lie. Then threatens link the game like I have something to fear.

I ask again to provide proof of something that raises so much concern for him(yet didn’t vote me) and to back up his claim that I defended scum.

His response is to say he will ignore me, but will hammer if a wagon forms on me.

From my point of view this is how I read the situation-
I make post about Dva votes
- I’m called out on not voting(seems to be cleared up now, but can understand why I was questioned)
Db posts I typically vote who I think is scummy and it raises concerns for him.
- I read this as trying to make ppl think I’m playing weird and scummy and db implying he knows enuff about me to make a statement like that.
I counter that post by summarizing how the votes in that game went and saying I was called out throughout the game for NOT voting someone I said seemed scummy.
- he replies with bringing up nothing that had to do with his first statement (not unvoting him) and outright lying (I defended scum).

If he walked back the statement and said he misremembered the game, I would’ve said ok and dropped it. But he is willing to stand by that statement, hammer based on it and ignore me. But won’t argue his stance st all.

[EzekelRAGE]

The fact you’re trying to bait me into an argument is prett bad. You literally just admitted that’s what you’re doing. I’m actually going to learn from my mistakes. If that means people think I’m scum so be it.

I’m trying to get you to provide examples of the various statements you’ve made on me so I can defend myself. You feel confident enuff to hammer me based on that.

I’m just trying to defend myself to the bs you spewed. If you never brought up the previous game, this wouldn’t even be an issue.

[EzekelRAGE]

Well keep waiting. I don’t need to link you to things we both know are true.

We don’t agree though. So You need to link it so the rest of the players can decide for themselves.

[EzekelRAGE]

Or we can agree to disagree and don’t worry about it.

You want to start a fight. I want to avoid one. Best thing to do is ignore you I guess.

If you want to talk about anything else lmk. If you want to argue cause you disagree with me, Good day sir.

I have to worry about it because you and possibly other are swayed/ may vote me based on that.

I’m willing to engage and you just want to throw bs statements into air w/o backing it up which is very antitown behavior.

I hope others can see that and lynch you. This is a game based on discussion. Yet you don’t want to even back up anything you say.

Just admit you were full of bs in bringing that up the way you did and I won’t engage on the topic of the past game again.

[EzekelRAGE]

I'm not all that sure what's going on in this argument. Ezekel is the issue just that he said you were more confident in your voting in a previous game?

Not entirely
- his comment like he has enough history to know how I play( I already explained in detail defending myself on that by explaining how I usually hold my votes. So he was wrong to make the statement in the first place)
- that he said it raised concern for him. (Enuff to hammer a wagon on me but not vote me which is odd)
- bringing up that I thought he was scum and wouldn’t unvote(just to discredit me, had nothing to do with his argument against me)
- saying I defended scum (an outright lie, which is most likely why he doesn’t want to prove I did it.)
- all that coupled with him not wanting to prove anything he said

In a game like this s if you don’t hold ppl accountable for the things they post, what’s the point?

[EzekelRAGE]

Well keep waiting. I don’t need to link you to things we both know are true.

We don’t agree though. So You need to link it so the rest of the players can decide for themselves.

Why don’t you link the game so we can all see it?

Wanted him to link it so he could prove anything he said against me in specific posts.

Here you guys go
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77128&start=1025

[EzekelRAGE]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77128

I don’t know how it’s going to help though.

If you feel that way, why would you even bring up the previous game in the first place?
You are willing to vote me based on that game. Your comment makes no sense.

[EzekelRAGE]

He said I typically vote who I think is scum, this raises concerns for him.

I disputed it and asked him to back it up. Guerilla you mentioned bringing up my voting confidence from a previous game was a good angle iirc.

It was misinformation and affected this game. Do I would like to clear it up.

[EzekelRAGE]

Feels like town v town to me.

I feel the same.

Ezekel ISO in the previous game shows that he does withhold his vote

This has been my point, you got that from an iso. Db , being apart of the game, should’ve known off rip. If anything his post should’ve been the opposite of what he posted.

So I figure he just misremembered some things.

Or he is scum and saw a small opening for a mislynch.

I go with the former and Summarize my votes in this game to jog his memory. Hoping he goes my bad, I remembered it wrong.

He ignores that, brings up other things to discredit me, says he will ignore me but will happily hammer me if a wagon forms.

Coming off a game where he argued with ppl about the smallest thing.What am I suppose to do/think?
———he already admitted his play style is different when he said he “learned from his mistakes”

The question you guys should be asking yourselves is if nothing is gained by going over the game:
Why did he bring it up to make me look suspicious?
Why is he willing to hammer a vote on me based on it?
Why is he unwilling to provide proof on anything he said?

[EzekelRAGE]

1) he brought it up in response to my misreading of your posts
2) you two clearly have a lingering dispute
3) I honestly just see this as him being unwilling to admit to a mistake

I'm not scumreading him but I'm not town reading him anymore tbh

1. I know why he brought it up, but what he said was wrong
2. I harbor no I’ll woll towards him on the previous game, he does though.
3. Possible and being stubborn like mustang said.

[EzekelRAGE]

Why did he bring it up to make me look suspicious?
Why is he willing to hammer a vote on me based on it?
Why is he unwilling to provide proof on anything he said?

This is my last post on this stupid topic.

1. I brought it up cause I feel your playing different this game compared to that game.

2. I’m happy to hammer you cause you are a player who was partially responsible for town losing the last game. This game you are doing things not helpful to town. You’re either scum (which I’m not sure of yet) or bad town (which I already know is true based on last gme)

3. Because I don’t have to provide proof of my opinions. You either agree or disagree and move on. Different opinions aren’t alignment indicative.

1. You are the one guilty of this.
2. You are the one not being helpful to town. Bringing baggage from another game into this one. If we are trying to place blame for the game, it’s largely on your feet.
You randomly hammered day 1. Gave no intent, didn’t let the lynchee claim or anything. You didn’t do it because you thought they were scum or for the interest of town. You hammered because the mod asked you to try and post once every 48hrs the 5 days you were on vacation. You got annoyed at the request and hammered. You even blamed the hammer on the mod post game which was laughable.Day 2, the only reason you weren’t lynched was because you were a PR. You had the worst town play that game, especially for a pr. You need to nut up and get over that game.
3. You haven’t stated opinions, you stated things like they were fax.

Seems like you are still salty about last game, letting it hinder you in this game. I haven’t done anything scummy so far in this game imo. Thing with guerilla seems to have been a misunderstanding. Other thing was trying to understand why your u would lie in this game about a previous one.

[EzekelRAGE]

“look at you...emotional” *Loaded Lux voice*

Shit is laughable. You are either scum that dropped the ball or town that isn’t being productive at all being so emotional and in your feelings about a previous game.

Either way I think you would be a good lynch.

[EzekelRAGE]

There nothing to get out of my system. I can compartmentalize games.

You can’t respond because you don’t have a leg to stand on with anything you brought up.

Just hold your L and keep it moving. You don’t have to keep posting about how you will ignore the topic.(which you have done 3x now, each one after a post I made making you look foolish)

I can see the lying you did had nothing to do with this game. So no point in me and you going back and forth because of that.

I just gotta weigh the option of it being scum db or bad play/emotional/anti town town db. It’s part of the reason I asked those questions at the end of that post. To get others opinions/views on it.

[EzekelRAGE]

You really shouldn’t lie. It’s antitown.

Let's chalk it up to a misunderstanding, I can see this going on for pages.

Its not a misunderstanding. What me and you had is a misunderstanding, he just lied. Either way, I stopped seriously responding to him once I realized he was full of bs and just trolling at this point. Ive said all I need to say to him regarding the topic. But if others want to discuss the matter, I don't mind.

[EzekelRAGE]

By the way, can somebody explain, why there is such a large focus on what has been done in a previous game(s)? Reads from previous games are mostly subjective, additionally, you are relying on person x playing the same way as they did in previous games. Can somebody explain why this is efficient? Or is it just to get the ball rolling? I see no point in it.

As far as im concerned, previous games shouldn't be brought up, But it was brought up to try and get a lynch/wagon on me goin in this game so I had to address it.

[EzekelRAGE]

By the way, can somebody explain, why there is such a large focus on what has been done in a previous game(s)? Reads from previous games are mostly subjective, additionally, you are relying on person x playing the same way as they did in previous games. Can somebody explain why this is efficient? Or is it just to get the ball rolling? I see no point in it.

Gonna have to ask rage. He’s the one being super defensive about my opinions of his play.

Please dont play the victim role, it doesnt suit you.

Rage does typically vote who he thinks he is scummy so that comment does raise concerns with me.

1. I brought it up cause I feel your playing different this game compared to that game.

2. I’m happy to hammer you cause you are a player who was partially responsible for town losing the last game. This game you are doing things not helpful to town. You’re either scum (which I’m not sure of yet) or bad town (which I already know is true based on last gme)

You make this statement like we have played in a number of games.

No I made a statement based off my experience of you. 1 game is still better than no games.

Provide proof, otherwise this reads to me like you were trying to add fire to a wagon.

The game we played together where you thought I was scummy and basically wouldn’t vote elsewhere or even unvote when asked.

Do I need to link it?

He was partly responsible for town losing cause he couldn’t get past somebody he found scummy to the point he defended scum which I pointed out already ye I can barely provide an example?

You make this statement like we have played in a number of games.

No I made a statement based off my experience of you. 1 game is still better than no games.

Provide proof, otherwise this reads to me like you were trying to add fire to a wagon.

The game we played together where you thought I was scummy and basically wouldn’t vote elsewhere or even unvote when asked.

Do I need to link it?

[EzekelRAGE]

@LTVNGambit Now that you pointed it out, it is odd that Guerilla hoped off that Suade train, especially with the post saying whether Suad is town or not, they have no problem with them Suade being lynched.

[EzekelRAGE]

Please dont play the victim role, it doesnt suit you.

Not playing the victim. You did get overly defensive because of my opinion. That’s a fact. You are basically FF

I didn't get overly defensive. I wanted to see why you thought the way you did, and provide proof. You instead lied and provided no proof to anything you said. Said you would ignore the situation. You are in your feelings and letting it derail the thread.

Can you stop?

You say you have learned your lesson from the last game, how about proving it and letting it go?

It seems like you still want to argue with me for some reason, just not about any of the lies you told about me to make me seem scummy.

See? Overly defensive.[/quote]
That is calling you out on a lie

Now I’m begging you. Don’t bring this shit us again

You brought it up

[EzekelRAGE]

you two should stop this

Honestly I'm trying to. Will just ignore him for the rest of the day phase.

Just an fyi - notice now he is arguing w/e he is trying to argue with me now trying to get the last word. Notice earlier he didn't want to provide evidence as to why i was scummy because it would be arguing and he "learned his lesson from last game."

Food for thought. I've dropped it.

[EzekelRAGE]

Will be home from work tomorrow evening. Can focus more on what has went on post er vs db

[EzekelRAGE]

Gambit vs Guerilla(Saudade voting) – I can see both sides of this. While I did find it odd that Woo would unvote the Saud lynch because he stated he didn’t care if he got lynched or not. I myself wouldn’t have questioned the lynch since there are only 2 scum this game. Meaning most of the ppl voting Saudade were town. It’s day 1, not much to go on. So let Saudade lynch happen, check flip, question those who did driveby votes the next day phase.

Seems Woo skipped the lynch step and wanted to question the ppl who voted.
I can read that as town actually wondering how the wagon formed. I wondered the same, but would’ve went about It differently.
I can read it as a play from scum.

Slightly reading it as a town action path reading up til that point.

I don’t know how to read Saudade and his play style.

Will read up on everything after that.

[EzekelRAGE]

Gambit 262 – DB is my most suspicious, not Woo. I could be reading that wrong and you just meant more ppl overall found Woo suspicious than anyone else.

Alchemist – nice posts about reads of other player’s actions. Takes me from slight scum lean to neutral/slight town.

Tommy 324 After DB my next biggest scum read would be Woo. That’s not saying much though and relies on the me vs db situation. The way Woo went about minimizing my argument to “it’s just about him saying something about your voting confidence”. If he read what I posted he would know it wasn’t just that. While Alchemist otho seemed to come from a neutral view point on the situation.
Wanted the back and forth between me and db to stop, cuz it can go on for several pages and labels it “misunderstanding”. While it seem some arguing between other posters has taken just as long.
Wants gambit out for lying multiple times 359 but I mentioned DB lied multiple times as well 170, and he doesn’t seem to understand where I’m coming from.
I think gambit called him out on how he starting cursing and stuff when being pressured about something. I forget what specifically happened though. But

[EzekelRAGE]

Can people who aren't on either of the two main wagons either switch votes or convince three or four others to join them?

I stated all I've done for my DB argument. He has lied multiple times. Dodged actually answering anything I had to say about him lying, but wanted to do a back and forth with me about other less important things.

What I posted about Woo makes sense as well. His reply to my posts on his actions in the db vs me argument seemed off to me as well.
UNVOTE: Doughboy
VOTE: GuerillaWoo
L-1

[EzekelRAGE]

Still think we should lynch DB, but that isnt one of the two wagons. One of the two is my 2nd most scummiest so will help push that angle since that could lead to answers.

[EzekelRAGE]

I don't think neither dva or gorilla are scum then
what do boys time for ya'll to unvote

Db would make for a good lynch *shrug*

[EzekelRAGE]

Please lynch me rage. Go ahead and do it. I want you to realize that’s it’s always you. It’s never me. You’ll have misread me twice cause you suck at mafia.

Yo, what is your angle here? Why are you steady bitching and whining and attacking me? Everyone can see how you misplayed last game as a pr. I have no regrets about last game when it comes to you. You played like a jackass because you were upset about the mod. You also had your head stuck up your own ass because you felt you played a perfect game, which you didn’t. Now your resorting to bullying because your just a shitty player who can’t handle being pressured about anything. So your go to this tactic, which is pitiful.

Neither one of us got scum last game. You were focused on me and ff. Wrong on both accounts.
I was focused on you, due to your shitty antitown actions.

This game you lied about me on multiple accounts. Which is why you made this post. 550
You also can’t seem to comprehend the difference between stating an opinion and stating something as fact. Also, even if something is an opinion it can still be wrong.

I know I’m not a perfect mafia player. It’s why I try to post my thinking on matters so I can allow others to poke at it. This allows me to see a different view and see something that I may not. It’s also why I don’t mind going back and forth with someone when they think I may be scum. Just to understand their thinking about me and my actions.

That alone makes me a better mafia player than you ever will be.

You are just a toxic shitty player. You won’t learn from your mistakes because you don’t take criticism well. When things don’t go your way you just insult, that lets me know you are mentally weak. Do you have anything to say about me other than you saying I’m a bad player( see that’s an opinion) and bitching about idk what at this point?

[EzekelRAGE]

Like I said, you have nothing else to say.

Also I’m not the one keeping the 1v1 going. Db is the one continuing it.

[EzekelRAGE]

You made other posts that implied you wanted me over scum.

This is why you were lynched the next day, everyone thought you were scum with him cause of how you wouldn’t vote him and wanted to vote me.

That is defending scum over the claimed Pr whether you want to admit it or not. It’s literally why you got lynched.

You are lying about me defending Asuska.
You are wrong about why I was lynched, but thats not important here.

Prove I defended scum over you

.

VOTE: doughboy
Meh, right move would be to lynch asuka, db hasn’t played a very friendly game and is toxic so my vote is on him.
Either way we have guaranteed scum between him and asuska.

I will say the cc is odd. I was more likely to be lynched than ff imo. So the cc doesn’t make much sense scumwise.

Voted you because of your shitty attitude. That's not defending scum. I even say the right move would be to lynch Asuska.

@rage - I’m sorry if I was harsh towards you also. I was just trying to show you that your reasons for scum reading me were very surface level stuff. They are things that point to bad play and not necessarily alignment related. The fact that FF and myself were guilty of similar things but you only scum read me felt hypocritical. If you are town hopefully you learn to look more at motives behind things. Scum isn’t usually going to be open and honest like I was.

you apologise

As far as the vote on db I was the first legit vote on him

FF was the first legit vote on me actually.

I explained that I thought ff vote was out of spite, not truly scum reading you.
UNVOTE: doughboy

Unvoted you after you said you were sorry and it seemed like you understood why I was after you at first. I didnt defend Asuska at all, which is the lie you told. Please bring up theses "posts" where I am defending scum so hard and trying to get you lynched.
=============================================

I defended scum in that game, which is an outright lie.

My other opinion. You voted a player after lurking and put them l-1. That’s somebody who’s confident with their voting who they think is scum. You then go on to basically tunnel me cause you think I’m scum. Clearly you were confident in voting who you think I’m scum from my POV.
That’s not a lie either.
So what other “lies” have I supposedly told? Huh?
Get lost

I explained how you misread the voting in that game with this post. I was ask to vote around 2-3 days before deadline. That was also my first vote in the game iirc. 69 Also Woo was on me about holding my vote, I proved I mostly hold my votes. Your "opinion" was wrong about me holding my votes.

[EzekelRAGE]

Like I said, you have nothing else to say.

Also I’m not the one keeping the 1v1 going. Db is the one continuing it.

I may have picked it up wrong because I read both sides individually within the iso's but it seems from that that you're the one that is keeping it going.

Also your replies are definitely the more aggressive out the two, as I said you're reminding me of my own scum game so my suspicions are definitely lying at you atm.

Earlier I can see how it appears I egged it on. Since fmpov he lied about me holding my vote and he just dodged me. If you read the iso there was a point where I said I would ignore him because I see that he wont respond(so i could defend myself) and is just trolling. From that point on, I largely ignored directly interacting with him. He was the one steady attacking me about bad play and stuff.

[EzekelRAGE]

Prove I defended scum over you.

You just did it for me. Voting me over scum because of non game related reasons is basically defending scum.

We disagree on the term defending then, because that is in no way defending scum imo.

You also said there were multiple posts were I defended scum over you. Other than the one I posted(which isnt defending scum) where are the others?

@rage. This is what I was talking about with regards to opinions.

I think you defended scum and pushed me. That game is over and I still think that. Regardless if you agree with it, that’s what I think.

That’s not a lie no matter how you try to spin it. It’s.... are you ready for it?


MY FUCKING OPINION

IMO you were lying. See how it works? You posted your side and why you thought the way you did. You werent stating things as opinions.

If you read the iso there was a point where I said I would ignore him because I see that he wont respond(so i could defend myself) and is just trolling.

This is the same kind of issue Ff got into that game also.

You don’t need to defend yourself from everything. I wasn’t calling you scum and I wasn’t voting you. Why did you make it a big deal?

It’s like when I said I thought ff needed to post more or whatever, that set him off and he started defending himself and it turned into an argument.

I don’t need to provide proof of my opinion because it’s subjective. I just proved my opinions and you’re still disagreeing with me.

Am I really scum cause you don’t agree with me? No

Typically more times than not implies there is some fact/data to something, which doesnt make it an opinion at that point.
Woo started going more in on me based on the statement you made and the fact that he misunderstood the dva situation - So of course Im going to make that statement a big deal.

I really hate arguing over stupid things. That’s why I’ve dialed back my contributions this game. Rage scum reads me cause he doesn’t agree with my opinions of his play in another game. Saudade has broken site rules and didn’t get punished and then threatened to start an argument with me so I’d replace out.

T

hese 2 have basically ruined the fun I was having and The only reason I haven’t replaced out is because I’m not letting rage and saudade troll me out of the game.

I havent been trolling. All you've been doing is yelling "Your bad town" "OMG Your so bad!!!!"

[EzekelRAGE]

I havent been trolling.

When you call something a lie that isn’t and continue to say it’s a lie even after I’ve explained multiple times it’s a different opinion, yes you are trolling. A lie is an intentional statement meant to deceive. My opinion isn’t an intentional statement meant to deceive.

imo you lied with your statement about my voting. If I view that as lying, then im not trolling when Im trying to get you to answer so I can defend myself.

All you've been doing is yelling "Your bad town" "OMG Your so bad!!!!"

I say this because last game you were bad town. You tunneled on me (town) for things that weren’t alignment related type things. You just had a problem with my play and as you admitted, you didn't like me.

This game you are doing the exact same thing. You are calling me scum for things that you dislike, not things that’s are tied to an alignment.

I asked you last game to step back and reconsider. You refused

I asked you this game to step back and reconsider, and you still basically refused. Sure you moved your vote but you still scum read me for things you shouldn’t.

You admitted to making bad antitownplays, so I was right in scum reading you.
Im calling you scum cuz I felt like you lied on me.

[EzekelRAGE]

So my reads as it stands

Town: Tommy, Alch
Town Lean: LTVN
Null town: Gamma
Null: Flubber, problem, doughboy
Scum lean: Guerilla
Scum: Ezekel

In going to stick a vote on Ezekel just now but I'm pretty close to expressing intent on Guerilla too, I'll sleep on it tonight and make a decision tomorrow.

VOTE: Ezekel

Other than you saying me vs db is copying how you played as scum, what else do you have against me?

[EzekelRAGE]

If you still have a problem with my scumreading you for things like lying and want to replace out. So be it.
Me saying I think you would be a good lynch =/= you screaming how bad of a town player you think I am/all the other shit your flinging.
We just fundamentally disagree with mafia as whole. Lets just leave it at that.

Now back to Wilky -
You voted me saying it seemed like I used a tactic you previously utilized as scum.

Someone to engage me? What are your reads?

Gamma, Saudade, Doughboy, LTVN, and Ezekel are all Town to me.

Tommy, Dva, Flubber, and you are all null to me.

Guerilla is scum to me.

Talk to me about Ezekel? By looking at the iso's Ezekel seemed to be the one who was trying to keep the 1v1 going. The iso pretty much filled with the 1v1 until the last couple of posts and it also reminds me of a scum game I had before where I dragged Gustavo into a 1v1 and kept it going to bog down the thread, split the town and make people choose sides.

The only thing that separates me (strongest scum) from Woo(scum lean) is because it appears like im mimicking your scum play? Weak reasoning imo.

[EzekelRAGE]

And you still want to take shots. Yea, your delusional. Crying like a baby threatening to replace out, go ahead.

At this point you just want to argue with me about any little thing.Not going to respond to you anymore this game, since there is no reasoning with you in any topic.

UNVOTE: woo
VOTE: doughboy

[EzekelRAGE]

Wilky- the reason I called the reasoning weak is due to using your reasoning the same argument can be made for db. He just has shorter responses compared to me.

[EzekelRAGE]

My wordier responses may seem more aggressive. I’m just making sure that I’m thorough. It’s seems wordy responses don’t gel well with others. *shrug*

[EzekelRAGE]

Why would you lie on him as town?

Winner Winner, chicken dinner.

Wait I'm sorry, what did you lie about??

imo, everything he said about me in regards to last game. but I already went over that exhaustively. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Everything I said was an opinion!............but if I did happen to lie about you.....you can't scumread me for it!!!

That’s actually not weak reasoning at all. Town want to stop arguing. Scum want it to fan the flames.

I think Ezekiel is calling the use of “this play is like my scumplay” weak, which I think is fair

Yes that is what I meant.

UNVOTE: Wilky
I don't believe the row in this game has derailed much. We've largely ignored EzekelRAGE and Doughboy. I suppose if I'm looking for scum motivations for EzekelRAGE, there is the fact that he's been able to avoid giving analysis except in connection to the fight.

@EzekelRAGE

, can you reread all posts that don't mention your row with Doughboy and tell me what reads you can form from them on all players? Or on all players except Doughboy, let's say.

I can see how I can be scumread for that. Will reread isos and give post later.

[EzekelRAGE]

Frustrated and snappy because you were almost lynched. I can understand.

[EzekelRAGE]

uhm, other than me and db its been largely ignored. Nice try though.

[EzekelRAGE]

Alchemist - Same as before. Scum lean earlier because of dva slot lynch attempt. Feeling much better about him with posting. Prodding for information.
Tommy - Scum lean earlier for the same reason I did Alchemist. When Woo was going on because he misunderstood what I posted, stepped in and cleared the situation up. Townie lean for that since most scum may have just let it go on. Questioning of votes and trying to get ppl's perspective on things beside their main focus feels townie to me.
DvA - Null/Meh read
Wilky - Replacement for DvA. Nice intro into thread asking about reads and whatnot. Null for now.
-----In reply to your post 585 Had a slight scum lean on him and Tommy due to trying to lynch dva spot because of replacement angle.
Flubber - Null/Meh
Gamma - Null, unlike my previous null reads, gamma has enough posts for me to look at. I just don't know how to read them. Does try to comment on most topics at hand, which I give a slight town lean for.
GuerillaWoo - Already stated earlier why i had a scum lean on him. Didnt really bother to defend himself about what I said. So remains the same really. Only thing that has changed is he has grown more hostile. I don't care for the hostility he displays when things doesnt go his way. Main thing seems to be him vs Gambit.
Gambit - Null. Seems the bulk of his posts have to do with a misunderstanding between him and Woo. Now AWOL.
Prohawk - Null.
Saudade - Town lean

[EzekelRAGE]

I don't think I've ever seen a policy lynch lead to a win. The better way to deal with EzekelRAGE is to filter him out. Literally never quote him or address him. You say he's the one continuing it, but that isn't the whole truth. Either of you can stop this.

Meh, I tried b4, will try again.
UNVOTE: doughboy
VOTE: woo

Will not address anything db has to post about me for remainder of the game. For the betterment of the game.

[EzekelRAGE]

I don't think I've ever seen a policy lynch lead to a win. The better way to deal with EzekelRAGE is to filter him out. Literally never quote him or address him. You say he's the one continuing it, but that isn't the whole truth. Either of you can stop this.

Meh, I tried b4, will try again.
UNVOTE: doughboy
VOTE: woo

Will not address anything db has to post about me for remainder of the game. For the betterment of the game.

Legit don't understand how you've been playing this game for three years and still produce thoughts like this in your brain

I legit don’t understand how you don’t see how me vs db just creates noise for most ppl. I’m trying to lessen it.

[EzekelRAGE]

Noted

[EzekelRAGE]

PEdit: hai Tor, pls be active

depends on if the game is fun or not tbh

30 pages and still d1 means you already talked too much and derailed yourselves onto stupid arguments that lead nowhere and are like 80% of the time tvt

and I didn't even read anything

so let's get someone lynched, shall we?

who's active lurking? let's make a list of those fellas and kill inside of it

I’m liking you already lol.

[EzekelRAGE]

Oh and welcome tor.

[EzekelRAGE]

Ok. Mine was serious though. I honestly think it's likely that Scioness saw a red role PM and replaced out in the pre-game, and I feel like the others who also voted that slot feel the same way as I do.

how much do we like this reasoning? anyone else that knows scioness thinks this is >rand scum slot just because of the replace out? the one thing I like about dva is her apparent disinterest in pushing anything, as it points to lack of agenda, but that's not necessarily a towny thing and it's player dependant.

I thought it was kinda low to do it and initially scumread tommy and mustang for it. With more posting from the two I feel better about them.

They could be ready right, personally I just didn’t like it.

[EzekelRAGE]

Just to clarify, when I say them I mean voting going on for dis/Db etc and that whole group.

Dva votes and ppl bringing up the other person drops out of red roles, I don’t like and I read as scummy. Couldn’t tell if they are serious or not.

how is it scummy if they're serious about it? why would you even suggest they're not being serious about it? alchemist seems pretty serious to me. if a player has a history of replacing out as scum and they replace out before the game even starts, what does that tell you? why are you going after the people who are reading into it, instead of trying to establish if the meta read is true in the first place?

If you continue to read you will see that I explained about the mishap I had about their seriousness. That was my fault.

As far as reading them as scum for it. Personally I think it’s infair for the slot. But not enuff to try and vote/push a lynch for either person.

[EzekelRAGE]

@LTVNGambit Now that you pointed it out, it is odd that Guerilla hoped off that Suade train, especially with the post saying whether Suad is town or not, they have no problem with them Suade being lynched.

it's really not, it's just a pro-town unvote when the moment calls for it. guerilla could stay on that wagon hiding behind a grudge if he wanted to, and nobody would bat an eye at that. he unvoted cause he wants to avoid the very short gameday. guerilla is almost definitely town regardless of saudade's alignment.

425 I further looked at it. That posts outlines my thoughts on the unvote. I sided with it being more town move.

[EzekelRAGE]

Alchemist - Same as before. Scum lean earlier because of dva slot lynch attempt. Feeling much better about him with posting. Prodding for information.
Tommy - Scum lean earlier for the same reason I did Alchemist. When Woo was going on because he misunderstood what I posted, stepped in and cleared the situation up. Townie lean for that since most scum may have just let it go on. Questioning of votes and trying to get ppl's perspective on things beside their main focus feels townie to me.
DvA - Null/Meh read
Wilky - Replacement for DvA. Nice intro into thread asking about reads and whatnot. Null for now.
-----In reply to your post 585 Had a slight scum lean on him and Tommy due to trying to lynch dva spot because of replacement angle.
Flubber - Null/Meh
Gamma - Null, unlike my previous null reads, gamma has enough posts for me to look at. I just don't know how to read them. Does try to comment on most topics at hand, which I give a slight town lean for.
GuerillaWoo - Already stated earlier why i had a scum lean on him. Didnt really bother to defend himself about what I said. So remains the same really. Only thing that has changed is he has grown more hostile. I don't care for the hostility he displays when things doesnt go his way. Main thing seems to be him vs Gambit.
Gambit - Null. Seems the bulk of his posts have to do with a misunderstanding between him and Woo. Now AWOL.
Prohawk - Null.
Saudade - Town lean

Updated read list to add toranga.
Toranga - replacement for gambit. Questions and analyzes things. I like seeing his thought process on matters. Town reading him.

Will probably do a reread of ISO’s 2mrw to see if my reads changed.

[EzekelRAGE]

In post 655, ProHawk wrote:
In post 622, wilky wrote:
ProHawk has 1 post that's useful. Again I want more from this slot asap. The last thing we need is passengers in d2+ and both Flubber and prohawk havent posted anywhere near enough yet


What's up doc?


Can we get actual content instead of this bullshit thankyou.

Fuck you. No like actually FUCK you. Who the hell do you think you are? I made the doc post in reference to your avatar. It was a reach out to start a fucking conversation. Get that stick out of your ass.

This response doesn’t fit what the post you just made 898
I just found it odd looking at the two posts is all.

[EzekelRAGE]

prohawk's ISO: the only relatively towny thing he did was apparently check for saudade's meta and ended up townreading him. other posts are descriptive and he seems pretty disengaged. I'm fine with the lynch. I'm leaning more scum on hawk than dva and I don't like the way hawk pushed dva as probably scum without explaining his lean to any detail.

Why? What about DVa's posts compared to mine are more scummy? Did anyone give a shit about my vote or my reads until the end of the freaking day? NO.

P-EDIT: No, to make pre-flip associations will lead you down the wrong road most often that not.

I want to examine wagons and trains after people alignments are known.

I'm not sure where you came up with the assumption that I want to lynch people to examine their behavior after a flip? I don't think you understood what I meant there? IE: Flubbernugget is using the two wagons as two town-wagons to scum-hunt BEFORE he actually KNOWS that they are both town wagons, which will provide false results should one of the wagons actually be SCUM.

That part I can understand. It's how I like to do things when there is no trackers/cop etc. Flip is the only thing that can give concrete information.

[EzekelRAGE]

This response doesn’t fit what the post you just made 898
I just found it odd looking at the two posts is all.

Like... I'm just curious. Do you like to fan-fires for the hell of it? Or do you actually have a game-relevant point you are trying to make but don't want to actually come out and say it?

You complained about the toxicity in the game and then turn around and start doing it yourself. With the way you are continuing to go about things, seems you just faked concern with the post on 898.

[EzekelRAGE]

This response doesn’t fit what the post you just made 898
I just found it odd looking at the two posts is all.

Like... I'm just curious. Do you like to fan-fires for the hell of it? Or do you actually have a game-relevant point you are trying to make but don't want to actually come out and say it?

You complained about the toxicity in the game and then turn around and start doing it yourself. With the way you are continuing to go about things, seems you just faked concern with the post on 898.

This is a bit of a stretch. What do you expect me to do?

Guys, guys guys please it hurts my feelings. Just stop stop stop. I'm gonna replace out guyz!!!

But by all means if you think I'm fake vote me.

No, you just don't have to get filthy with the rest of us pigs *shrug*

This response doesn’t fit what the post you just made 898
I just found it odd looking at the two posts is all.

Like... I'm just curious. Do you like to fan-fires for the hell of it? Or do you actually have a game-relevant point you are trying to make but don't want to actually come out and say it?

You complained about the toxicity in the game and then turn around and start doing it yourself. With the way you are continuing to go about things, seems you just faked concern with the post on 898.

Now now how about you try and discredit his game related content instead of throwing shade at his shaky emotional state

Thought I was doing that. Maybe I misread it and it was genuine.

[EzekelRAGE]

I dont scrum read Tommy for his post abut Toranaga. No one is confirmed town til we see a flip saying so. You should keep an open mind and post theories. If Prohawk flips scum it's something to keep in mind. Just like Tor thinking Woo and Pro are scum is something to keep in mind.

[EzekelRAGE]

I think Toranaga is being the Towniest Town and Tommy’s post looks like a scummy attempt to shade the slot to me.

Toranaga is my most town as well. I did find it odd he flipped on thinking Prohawk is scum, which is why I dont mind Tommy posting his theory. Toranaga posted his reasoning for town reading pro. I can see a town or scum prohawk doing the "vote me" thing.

[EzekelRAGE]

Yeah, Rage for scum off my wagon absolutely.

Based on what exactly?


Interesting hammer flub as well.

[EzekelRAGE]

Doughboy is a bad nk unless he was tunneling scum

You say this knowing he was tunneling me all day lol .

[EzekelRAGE]

Jfc did we seriously accidentally hammer someone.

Maybe we can get a redo or something

Question on this woo? Were you serious about this?

From your earlier posts iirc, you said you don't care who gets lynched.
So this reads like fake outrage/concern over the hammer.

[EzekelRAGE]

Yeah, Rage for scum off my wagon absolutely.

Based on what exactly?


Interesting hammer flub as well.

This post was questioned, I viewed the accidental hammer as odd. Especially since Toranga had viewed Pro as town.

[EzekelRAGE]

Jfc did we seriously accidentally hammer someone.

Maybe we can get a redo or something

Question on this woo? Were you serious about this?

From your earlier posts iirc, you said you don't care who gets lynched.
So this reads like fake outrage/concern over the hammer.

thats nice that you are investigating other leads but can you do it while placing your vote in flubbernugget
or do you townread him or something???
?
?
?
?
?
?

at this poin ti could get behind a flub lynch, especially after the way he tried to frame the db nk.

[EzekelRAGE]

Was he? The majority of his iso was fighting with rage.

Seems like the perfect player to push a mislynch on from a scum perspective

i think youve been the only one pushing it

[EzekelRAGE]

I never tried to push for a doughboy lynch but now I get why he treated you the way he did

Defensive much? lol Anyway, misread your post.

You meant scum would try to push a mislynch on DB for tunneling me? That still makes no sense, db was still townread by most after that.
========

Doughboy is a bad nk unless he was tunneling scum

Was he? The majority of his iso was fighting with rage....

That just reads like your trying to set something up.

*shrug*

I picked up on the db saying I would be confirmed scum. Figured he meant/hinting that power role would inves/follow me, not that he would directly do it himself.

[EzekelRAGE]

Prod dodge. Sorry will be able to post and catch up later.