Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I got one of my childhood favorite flavors

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yes yes

priorities priorities

Ah yes, milk,milk, and espresso

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No I'm livewire

Hihi

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That is interesting, but I don't think limming dunn is worth it atm
would scum have fakeclaims, possibly, but I'm mostly just confused why Dunn's immediate thought was to claim flavor out of the gate

It's not often you get to claim flavor when claiming flavor

[ssbm_Kyouko]

low complexity is not necessarily commensurate w/ normal, nor do i think cabd just started w/ a setup and haphazardly assigned roles to it.

That said, I don't think that makes Code Red slam dunk being a PR; this is analogous to the possibility assigning the protagonist of your flavor as a VT role in theme games, something that is well within the realm of what Cabd might do.

Your actions are incomprehensible. All I know is that you are lying about your role.

How do you know she's lying? She hasn't even really said anything concrete yet.

implying our lord and savior baja blast isn't the protagonist?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

[ssbm_Kyouko]

On pg 5 seems to me Dunn claimed Code Red truthfully, LLD saw it and thought it would be believable for Cabd to make Code Red a scum role, but she didnt realize that town gets mtn dew flavors. Now she's claiming her role cant exist if town only gets mtn dew flavors and my guess is that's because she rolled a competitor and didnt connect that town would all be the tennessee original

VOTE: LLD

[ssbm_Kyouko]

-_-
Which head is this?

Ooh I knew, normally I cant tell hydras apart but that was big pooks

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lady Lambadelta is Diet Mountain Dew, Macho Activated Innocent Child, aligned with On-Brand (Town)

Oh weird UNVOTE:

I had 2 diets today tho that's all I drink anymore

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

Look at the time stamps, I'm not sure I've gone 5 minutes without either being asked to explain something or accused of something. I've been under barrage this whole time without having even read the game or really

done anything

yet.

And there it is, unprompted.

I'm really confident on Dunn flipping scum today. This answer instead of just giving other thoughts is... yeah.

I mean it really seems possible in these recent posts but I still dont understand where you got the idea from your role that hardclaiming Code Red is a scumclaim. I understand the argument for scum!Dunn to claim this as a way to garner towncred, but I dont see why town!Dunn would not do it.

And I dont understand from the reveal of your flavor, which was diet dew, where you got the idea that code red was scum-indicative.

Something I do find odd about Dunn's posts now I have more context is that he seems to have inconsistent thoughts about the flavors that town/scum will have. He thought you scumreading him for code red was an indicator scum could have the one true soda, but also he light TRed Toogeloo for softing a competitor mello-yello which is a yikes for me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Look at that pagetop, now imagine if I'd also sniped 420 back when I made 421. At that point I'd demand to be reflavored to game fuel or riot

[ssbm_Kyouko]

normally IC doesn't reveal the whole role tho, lol

I think the announcing modifier was announced as well wasnt it? But also this isn't technically a normal. Idk I just saw macho IC is diet dew and was like well, that's town, but also the assumptions about about code red make no sense considering her flavor announcment, so... unvote, scratch hannouncement, ig

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There _wasn't_ a status quo at that poiint; it was literally his first post.

-b

I think it's fair to say that claiming flavor in your opening post is against the status quo in a game of mafia unless there is clear pro-town benefit, like in an open/semi-open that is crackable (3d20, the first one), or like when you're a miller-type

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

But she’s confirmed town, why do you give a shit about her motivations?

Because she is an IC, people will be more inclined to sheep instead of think for themselves. LLD isn't a follower, and people will take advantage of that, and she needs to be told when she is probably wrong, or at least have a devil's advocate to open up other possibilities.

Assume that I am wrong and Dunn is town. Why hasn’t he given reads? This reads more like you don’t like LLD’s playstyle vs a scummy motivation here. The only thing he’s done that’s memorable is attack you which means you’re more than likely town if Dunn is scum. If Dunn is town he really needs to start re-reading the game and give thoughts. Dude can’t make up his mind more than me which says a lot.

This feels slightly out of touch. Dunn's started posting thoughts already at this point and Critter is latched to a previous gamestate and using it to perpetuate shade on Dunn.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dunn on toog in isekai

Dunn wasn't in isekai

He wasnt in isekai after I caught him killing on N1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've never had a Mt.Dew or any of it's offshoots. I did have a Mellow Yellow 30ish years ago after watching Days of Thunder. The only things I know about Pepsi Products is that Mt.Dew hard carries their brand, and Taco Bell has to remind me that they serve Sierra Mist and not Sprite.

I prefer Arnold Palmers if I need caffeine.

Just googled Mellow Yellow and it's not even a mt dew flavor, it's a competitor. I thought Toog was softing their mt. dew flavor here.

Oh wait I'd misremembered this apparently, didnt realize you didnt know mellow yellow was a false idol

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No I'm livewire

Hihi

How come Notsci gets a hi but I dont

Idk, probably isekai recency

[ssbm_Kyouko]

implying our lord and savior baja blast isn't the protagonist?

fuck baja blast

-b[oth of us]

Woah idk if I should have said hi

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don’t wanna have to do this but I will clown on you if you keep this up

Damn it's been too long since I TRed you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I wont fake a guilty this time tho

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Meh. It's +town but not conclusive. Funny though.

I imagine despite how boneheaded she is as town, she’d actually fact-check things as scum

What if she checked but decided voting the ic would be a nice move

[ssbm_Kyouko]

"i'm around for 3 minutes and then i leave" kind of behavior

lol
just because Noraa doesn't sign doesn't mean I'm suddenly pooky

I've never had a Mt.Dew or any of it's offshoots. I did have a Mellow Yellow 30ish years ago after watching Days of Thunder. The only things I know about Pepsi Products is that Mt.Dew hard carries their brand, and Taco Bell has to remind me that they serve Sierra Mist and not Sprite.

I prefer Arnold Palmers if I need caffeine.

Just googled Mellow Yellow and it's not even a mt dew flavor, it's a competitor. I thought Toog was softing their mt. dew flavor here.

@SSBM

why am I being @ed at this point, this is after I claimed livewire?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

Implying toog had cred, that slot was cringe. I'm not sold on SM being scum from a first read, I believe english is not his first language and that he's relatively new to forum mafia. Actually strikes me as a potentially easy mislim for scum so I'm suspicious of vague pushes on them at this point. There are plenty of players under the radar so far, and the focus on SM feels like it could be telling.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

They* sorry SM

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

But she’s confirmed town, why do you give a shit about her motivations?

Because she is an IC, people will be more inclined to sheep instead of think for themselves. LLD isn't a follower, and people will take advantage of that, and she needs to be told when she is probably wrong, or at least have a devil's advocate to open up other possibilities.

Assume that I am wrong and Dunn is town. Why hasn’t he given reads? This reads more like you don’t like LLD’s playstyle vs a scummy motivation here. The only thing he’s done that’s memorable is attack you which means you’re more than likely town if Dunn is scum. If Dunn is town he really needs to start re-reading the game and give thoughts. Dude can’t make up his mind more than me which says a lot.

This feels slightly out of touch. Dunn's started posting thoughts already at this point and Critter is latched to a previous gamestate and using it to perpetuate shade on Dunn.

Thoughts yes. Reads no.

Okay but you literally said if he's town he needs to reread and give thoughts?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know I'm toog, and he was acting cringe to the point that any towncred he may have had early would be gone because of how oafishly he behaved with regards to LLD. I recall seeing some of his posts and thinking they seemed scummy, but mostly what stood out to me was the way he was talking to LLD about her IC reveal was really cringe.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

I asked for opinions aka reads/stances. Not something like “unusual” which is not an opinion/read/stance. It’s something if I want to look up I can.

Why are you nitpicking what is an obvious point?

I'm not nitpicking, I think its disingenuous to say he hadn't posted thoughts and call him scum for it, when it seemed like he had recently started posting the very thoughts you were looking for. Rather than interacting with those posts you shaded him for not posting thoughts. Then when called out on it to say you were asking for reads, not thoughts. Like sure back in 216 you said opinions but I'm not really going to remember that as I read through for the first time and it really stood out in 400some that you had shared Dunn for not posting thoughts, because I had literally just read some

hot opinions

not 1-2 pages prior I feel like

[ssbm_Kyouko]

why am I being @ed at this point, this is after I claimed livewire?

It was in response to you posting these posts:

Spoiler:

-_-
Which head is this?

Ooh I knew, normally I cant tell hydras apart but that was big pooks

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

Look at the time stamps, I'm not sure I've gone 5 minutes without either being asked to explain something or accused of something. I've been under barrage this whole time without having even read the game or really

done anything

yet.

And there it is, unprompted.

I'm really confident on Dunn flipping scum today. This answer instead of just giving other thoughts is... yeah.

I mean it really seems possible in these recent posts but I still dont understand where you got the idea from your role that hardclaiming Code Red is a scumclaim. I understand the argument for scum!Dunn to claim this as a way to garner towncred, but I dont see why town!Dunn would not do it.

And I dont understand from the reveal of your flavor, which was diet dew, where you got the idea that code red was scum-indicative.

Something I do find odd about Dunn's posts now I have more context is that he seems to have inconsistent thoughts about the flavors that town/scum will have. He thought you scumreading him for code red was an indicator scum could have the one true soda, but also he light TRed Toogeloo for softing a competitor mello-yello which is a yikes for me

Yeah I still dont get it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Waiting on reads Kyo tick tock tick tock

You scum, mush town, gamma town, nora possibly scumclaimed but nobody else notices these things. Wisdom obstinate, need to review him and toog in iso real quick, as his vote sticking in place feels wrong. However it's not likely you and wisdom are both scum so wrong on at least one of those

Dunnstral idk, I've had vibes he was scum at times but he doesnt feel like he did in isekai and I tracked him to the kill completely by accident there, had no idea he may be scum. I was setting up to Watch him later and he happened to be killing that Night

SM feels like limbait so town. Flytrap is POE scum. Gonna check playerlist for the resr as others in game are escaping me.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma Emerald
Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Noraa)
Venus Fly Trap (hydra of skitter30 and lilith2013)
Dunnstral
Wisdom
Lady Lambdadelta
Something_Smart
Critter
StrangeMatter
Toogeloo

Oh Emmi not unvoting Dunn when they popped in seemed weird, felt like they were aware of the VC but had no concern that they were on a leading wagon without having read.

Towelie hasn't pinged me except that he doesnt like baja blast? Very suspicious

[ssbm_Kyouko]

SM feels like limbait so town.

This is wildly shallow
I can accept not scumreading them for the reasons you said but

town

?

I think when easy lims are pushed that more often than not they're town. This has nothing to do with SM's posting, just based on my impression of the pushes on them.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So EMMI and Wisdom are who I've got immediate work to do on, wrt to Wisdom's original vote on and interactions with Toog, and EMMIs pop-in

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh missed S_S in game even with the playerlist in front of me. Idk what to think of him at this point.

Wisdom, why did you vote Toog in the first place? Looks to be not gameplay related to me from ISOs and voting for non-gameplay related reasons without stating them (like "stop being a dick, until you do my vote is staying") is +scum.

Idk why you'd stick on me as scum though as you know I'm town and know I'm being TRed, so seems more likely you're town here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

mush town

Mush is the only one pushing SM and youre calling them town

So who are the scum pushing SM?

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

You or Critter as its unlikely you're scum together VOTE: Wisdom

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now gotta do emmi as well

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh okay so EMMI posted before the VC, so that's whatever then, will wait and see what it does tomorrow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'd consider that kind of posturing this early in the Day scum-indicative. I remembered thinking that the push on SM seemed too easy, and also that I disagreed with it and found it odd that nobody else disagreed with it vocally. People were content to just let it happen , which means scum is content to let it happen.

Pushing is not a good word for it, but it's worse than pushing to have that kind of attitude at this stage. That's a deadline attitude for a townie, but scum are down for whatever whenever

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Interesting theres been no comment on Noraa yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm going off the vibe I got when reading, it seemed like as the pressure on Dunn died down, SM popped up as the alternative, and there seemed to be no resistance.

What made Toog scummy?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was talking about disagreeing with the scumread on SM rather than expressing that they would sheep a SM wagon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Another random thing to note is English is my first and only language, so that’s a very odd assumption, and saying I’m new to forum Mafia is untrue fmpov, but that’s probably semantics (I know people who have been playing for years call a person who’s a couple months old in a game new), when I’ve been here for months. And it’s really weird since someone could easily look at my past games for either of these. I’m still just completely left wondering why they’re going through these efforts, especially as scum though??

Definitely want to talk more then.

okay weird, I definitely read some of your other games' ISOs recently and could have sworn you mentioned a language issue, and most of your ego was newbies so I assumed you were new and ESL from the general clunkiness of your posts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This is what I'd read previously. I took it in conjunction with the general clunkiness of their posts that English is a second language for them. I also found that their posts were like that regardless of alignment.

English is hard but I don't disagree that RPing can be a distraction for sure but also is very easy town cred if you ask me that early on.

Clearly I was skimming too fast when I read it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you’re saying your alignment is jester? Doubt it. This was advertised as a low-complexity game, jester goes against that imo.
VOTE: Milk and Mocha

This is dumb. Jester is bastard. Pooky’s trolling lmao.

*confused spider eyes look at you*

shit that sounds really adorable. calling for backup, pooky shield me from the pocket!!

2 scum here I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lots of pages btw

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Jester alignment
Cop role
Flavor tastiest mountain dew

P sure game is literally confirmed 10:3, maybe mixing games up tho

[ssbm_Kyouko]

E. M. M. I. - scum. dislike its original dunn vote, and it's later discussion around the original wagon feels hollow. i think it's last post 420 should have been an unvote, but wasn't. feels like it doesn't know how to engage with the game

Haven't read the rest of this post yet but wanted to say I agree on this one. Maybe I already posted this thought, I dont remember. But yeah, it seemed weird that the post didn't include and wasnt immediately followed by an unvote

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Rn I feel like my preference is in Wisdom, Critter, EMMI, M&M

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Waiting on reads Kyo tick tock tick tock

You scum, mush town, gamma town, nora possibly scumclaimed but nobody else notices these things. Wisdom obstinate, need to review him and toog in iso real quick, as his vote sticking in place feels wrong. However it's not likely you and wisdom are both scum so wrong on at least one of those

Dunnstral idk, I've had vibes he was scum at times but he doesnt feel like he did in isekai and I tracked him to the kill completely by accident there, had no idea he may be scum. I was setting up to Watch him later and he happened to be killing that Night

SM feels like limbait so town. Flytrap is POE scum. Gonna check playerlist for the resr as others in game are escaping me.

last two paragraphs in particular:
- coming off of 450 which seems like she has a scumread on dunn, now she's on the fence about him and seems like she's giving excuses to townread him which I don't get
- what about SM feels like limbait and why does that make him town?
- if you're POEing us as scum, that should mean you have a townread on most if not all of the remaining players, otherwise how are you POEing down to our slot. but she doesn't have a townread on the other players because she doesn't remember who they are and has to check the playerlist. so that feels like a really "easy" read to make. and why not the same stance on EMMI? is she townreading EMMI at that point that would differentiate her view on EMMI vs our slot? but no, she doesn't have any read on EMMI. that makes me think the whole readslist is made up on the fly.

- lilith

SM seems like a noob and doesn't seem like scum to me. Noobscum tend to be easy to catch so since they're not, for lack of a better term, obvscumming, it seems more likely than not they're just town and would be an easy mislim. Being an easy town mislim makes them limbait. It's because they don't seem like scum that they are limbait, not that they are town because they are limbait.
Easy doesn't make it wrong, and you're either misrepping my stance on EMMI or not fully caught up yet. I believe that around that time I'd seen maybe a few posts from EMMI, and the most recent one, 420 pinged me, but I was waiting the IRL day for it to provide what it had promised. It has not since done so and imo is most likely to flip scum at this point. And yes, this readslist was made (not made up) on the fly and posted at 2am less than 24 hours after I replaced in, so yes, it looks like shit. They're all my opinions at that point in time though.

I actually find it kinda sus that there are now 3 people insinuating that I wouldn't vote EMMI so I'd invite them all (VFT, Wisdom, and Critter) to join me there and we can find out which one(s) lack the conviction to bus their buddy.

VOTE: EMMI

Went back to check and it had been literally less than 8 hours since I replaced in (and I'd played Destiny most of the night) so fuck off with that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also lol at last kyouko's post

Please lim that

Do you SR EMMI?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think when easy lims are pushed that more often than not they're town. This has nothing to do with SM's posting, just based on my impression of the pushes on them.

how do you characterize the difference between the pushes on StrangeMatter (easy (mis)lim) vs the ones on Emmi (a scumread)?

-b

I haven't reread to consider that - I would say the difference is not necessarily in the pushes (I'm wording it this way because I haven't reread), but in the players. SM I know is new(er). It's safe to assume EMMI is at least somewhat experienced because it's a gimmick account and I feel like those are almost always created by players with an established meta looking to have a more relaxing game where they dont have to play as hard to their established meta.

Pushes on EMMI, at this stage, feel warranted because there has been a lack of content after it has been promised. SM, otoh, is still playing, albeit weakly, and it feels to me that SM is town and EMMI is probably scum. If we turn up on EMMI and it brings some amount of effort it may turn out we're wrong on EMMI but until then this feels best.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

can u give me a tldr on the kyr read critter?

She said something I don’t think town says. Explaining more is antitown but in a few days it will be obvious or I will explain it. Combined with her intro and talks on flavor and extremely delayed reads while responding to posts reminds me of active lurking.

What do you mean by delayed reads? Surely this is something you can actually point to (as it seems you're unwilling to provide details anywhere else).

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

It’s hard to explain but I hate this post. If you want to bookmark it.
Combine it with unprompted flavor claim and it feels icky.

This was my response to 953

Guess what? I like Mountain Dew. I haven't made any posts pertaining to Mountain Dew in this game, except for claiming livewire, that were related to the game in any way (I think). I'm just enjoying talking about it. What do you think my scum motivation was for making that post? What is the scum motivation for flavor claiming?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I for one love that its okay for LLD to make the choice when its someone not named Dunnstral, but when it was Dunnstral you started your Kyo push!

ninja-
mhm

hi skitter!

Ik youre scumleaning us but I'm pretty sure you should go back and fact check the original part of this post!

I hadn't looked at it yet but I was kinda miffed that I'm getting SRed partly for claiming livewire unprompted, and I thought it was weird that I

didn't

remember Critter SRing Dunn for claiming Code Red unprompted. I haven't had time to go back and look for Critter's opinion on Dunn yet as I'm catching up, but if this is the case I'm definitely leaning more towards scum!Critter.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

DEW-S-A was a flavor of Mountain Dew of which was dark magenta in color. Its flavor was a combination of three existing flavors: Code Red, White Out, and Voltage, which represent the colors of the United States flag.

Its tagline was "DEW United with 3 Flavors".

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also it wasn't dark magenta those wiki editors are quacks, it was a lighter pink if you poured it into a glass, it only looks dark in the can

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Look Critter, at this point you've already said too much. Just explain what your mysterious reasoning is.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My mess of bottles I need to bag up

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: kyouko
What even is this rn

This is me getting frustrated that I'm being scumread for discussing mountain dew in a mountain dew themed game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

who is scumreading you for "discussing mountain dew in a mountain dew themed game"?

- lilith

Critter.

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

It’s hard to explain but I hate this post. If you want to bookmark it.
Combine it with unprompted flavor claim and it feels icky.

This is like, the first time he's provided any kind of reasoning to accompany his push

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: kyouko
What even is this rn

gamma, what exactly are you seeing here?

-b

Effort compared to towngames feels very muted

Not every one of my towngames is going to be an Owner's Market Blitz.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Earlier page tops have been converted to proper vote counts. No prods as you are all very active busy bees!

Did you put your Samus messages backwards on purpose?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The same can be said of most of the playerlist imo. As for why I am not though, I've read through only once since replacing in, then it was the weekend, where I am known to be less active, and on top of that, I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

I feel like the game probably makes the most sense if they're both town and scum are lurking, but Critter is kind of sucking my enjoyment out of the game right now.

I tried to join before this filled because I really like Mountain Dew, and thought it would be a fun theme, but it filled before I could /in. Now I'm replaced in and I'm being tunneled for talking about mountain dew. It's demoralizing. I'm probably going to try to ignore critter because he's going to die for softing invest anyways, and if he doesnt die he can give results later.

I think by engaging with Wisdom and Critter I give them things to talk about. If I disengage they can provide content on other slots. If either falls off probably they were just stalling as scum. Will reread in the next couple.days.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The same can be said of most of the playerlist imo. As for why I am not though, I've read through only once since replacing in, then it was the weekend, where I am known to be less active, and on top of that, I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

I feel like the game probably makes the most sense if they're both town and scum are lurking, but Critter is kind of sucking my enjoyment out of the game right now.

I tried to join before this filled because I really like Mountain Dew, and thought it would be a fun theme, but it filled before I could /in. Now I'm replaced in and I'm being tunneled for talking about mountain dew. It's demoralizing.

I'm probably going to try to ignore critter because he's going to die for softing invest anyways, and if he doesnt die he can give results later.

I think by engaging with Wisdom and Critter I give them things to talk about. If I disengage they can provide content on other slots. If either falls off probably they were just stalling as scum. Will reread in the next couple.days.

Town never does the bold. Like ever.

I'm doing it now, and I'm doing you a favor because you softed it so it would be seen. Whether the idea was to prevent a push on you because you are investigative, or to draw the kill away from the IC, I don't know, but scum won't know either, and now they'll think twice.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

In my experience, this is a really easy way for scum me to appear engaged while not really contributing
I would like if you could focus on other slots, you don't have to engage everyone, just some people

I will be once I start my reread

[ssbm_Kyouko]

(Assuming my reread doesnt point to them)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

She was role fishing

TOP KEK

[ssbm_Kyouko]

every scum flails when they feel they are attacked for the wrong reasons

Transparently false, some people don't flail as scum at all.

And plenty of people flail as both alignments. I don't see why "frustration at being attacked for bullshit reasons" is an emotion reserved for scum.

1110 is the kind of post that lets him appear engaged in the game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

that is in his scum meta, but he's also just easier to read with some flips imo, so I agree he's "never lim d1" material

Are there any flips you think would help read him at present?

What town says “another player is an invest” with a claimed cop (or two) in the game? I don’t get why you think Kyo is town here?

I'd forgotten those claims but M&M is probably not a cop or whatever they claimed to be. Big fake vibes there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have a potential justification in mind for why ssbm would out a perceived soft.

But I might as well let her explain herself before I feed her an answer.

I did it because it guarantees scum will see it and the potential motivation, if he is town, is to draw the NK off of LLD, or potentially if he really has a role, to be able to play aggressively and WIFOM scum into not shooting him because he's trying to draw a kill. However, if he is scum and makes it deep, this guarantees that someone who lives longer than me will poke at the soft later and not let it go unnoticed.

I revealed A50's Watcher softs in Dwlee's mini that ended recently. I've done it other times as town too I'm sure, and to my knowledge have never outed crumbs as scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

if it's not signed, it's him

i'm not sure how to handle you at the moment and i'm not even remote fucking sure how we got here but i get the overall impression that trying to deal with you right now is going to not go well and i don't fucking get it

-b

Correct it won’t. You can push me. It won’t go well. Give it a day or two.

You can push me/It won't go well are PR softs. Asking for a day or two is asking for time for results (or delaying an IC reveal)

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

This post implies you believe just one is scum, does it not? And for someone who believed Dunn is scum, you sure made a point to try and say "Kyo is scummier!" for reasons you have yet to present.

ninja-
Cocky grandstanding is my shtick, nice try though!

A scum in, yes. If two scum are in Dunn/Kyo there is one scum in the pairing. I have presented the reasons. Just let them sit so you enjoy a nice,cold scum later. And alas I am not being cocky I am an insect. But I am grandstanding yes, but only a tiny bit. Eventually this will make sense. You’re just behind. It’s okay. Let it go.

Unless you’re willing to derail all of town cohesion for what quite possibly is one of the stupidest pushes this game back off.

One of the stupidest pushes/back off again is softing PR.

The same can be said of most of the playerlist imo. As for why I am not though, I've read through only once since replacing in, then it was the weekend, where I am known to be less active, and on top of that, I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

I feel like the game probably makes the most sense if they're both town and scum are lurking, but Critter is kind of sucking my enjoyment out of the game right now.

I tried to join before this filled because I really like Mountain Dew, and thought it would be a fun theme, but it filled before I could /in. Now I'm replaced in and I'm being tunneled for talking about mountain dew. It's demoralizing. I'm probably going to try to ignore critter because he's going to die for softing invest anyways, and if he doesnt die he can give results later.

I think by engaging with Wisdom and Critter I give them things to talk about. If I disengage they can provide content on other slots. If either falls off probably they were just stalling as scum. Will reread in the next couple.days.

Interesting. You think I softed invest lmao lmao

No Townie says that ever hahahahaha

Not an invest anyway but still

Get rekt.

Claiming you're not investigative pretty much narrows it to IC unless the softs were faked as scum to relieve pressure

You also realize 90% of the push on you is Wisdom yeah?
Only reason you were brought up again was my posts were confusing.

I was more than happy to just stay the confusing idiot of the game.
But noooo someone had to go poke at something I didn’t want poked.

Please die for trying to out a supposed invest. Not one but this is a death sentence

You say I've poked at something you didnt want poked, but by softing in the first place you announced to the world you wanted it to be noticed. You were not subtle in any way.

The same can be said of most of the playerlist imo. As for why I am not though, I've read through only once since replacing in, then it was the weekend, where I am known to be less active, and on top of that, I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

I feel like the game probably makes the most sense if they're both town and scum are lurking, but Critter is kind of sucking my enjoyment out of the game right now.

I tried to join before this filled because I really like Mountain Dew, and thought it would be a fun theme, but it filled before I could /in. Now I'm replaced in and I'm being tunneled for talking about mountain dew. It's demoralizing.

I'm probably going to try to ignore critter because he's going to die for softing invest anyways, and if he doesnt die he can give results later.

I think by engaging with Wisdom and Critter I give them things to talk about. If I disengage they can provide content on other slots. If either falls off probably they were just stalling as scum. Will reread in the next couple.days.

Town never does the bold. Like ever.

I'm doing it now, and I'm doing you a favor because you softed it so it would be seen. Whether the idea was to prevent a push on you because you are investigative, or to draw the kill away from the IC, I don't know, but scum won't know either, and now they'll think twice.

Yeah sure. I softed an investigation role that I am not. And have openly stated I am not.

Can we just elim you? Thanks!

my assumption at this point is that you're a latter-day IC, or scum that panicked a little bit too early. If it's the former, I'd advise any doctor/bg in the setup to holster for later (after LLD and Critter die) if you're gated. Obviously LLD cant be protected, but theres still a possibility of a gated strongman that can bypass your Critter protect. Food for thought.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kyouko

How so? Do you not think he'd be bussing her here?

Not really

Is there a reason you think not? I thought you said he has a meta of bussing. He's not bussing ofc, but I'm curious why you would say he's not.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I used to enjoy diet Mountain Dew but can’t really have it with my anxiety medication (it’s got grapefruit juice in it)
But I’d probably still enjoy a Code Red on occasion (aka WHEN I CAN FIND ONE (read that in the voice of Dad Turner from Fairly Odd Parents))

Critter had no problem with Gamma talking about mountain dew flavors btw

[ssbm_Kyouko]

idc about anyone else honestly. like i caught one scum and maybe will catch another later so im doing amazing. pooky agrees with me and we've basically just got the game solve so life is just sexy as fuck.

What's your poe beyond dunn?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Eh that’s probably a wait-and-see thing, I’m skeptical of people who say they can read me without proper receipts, not as in I think they’re scum but just that I have a lot of people profess to know my play that actually don’t know shit about it, but I’ll see how you approach reading me here and make a call as to whether you’re full of it when you do so and give a substantial reason for it.
I’m not gonna share the answer key for pretty much as long as I can get away with it but I have certain expectations for how different alignments will react to RQS and other oddball openers. That’s why I’m dismayed it got met with indifference this game.

Let’s just say I am a once you know you know type of dude. I think if I am right people are going to start dissecting each and every little thing almost too much so just in order to get some voting going. I hate RVS with a passion and want out of it as much as possible for that reason. This game seems pretty quiet compared to most and not just your questions. A good chunk of posters in the game here tend to be in the rapid fire quick snippy posts. I am shocked I could watch a bit of YouTube and see like almost no posts. It’s refreshing.

But this is kinda +town - I feel like I don't camp the thread refreshing as scum. I think in most cases, scum dont want to be at the center of attention and would much prefer to post only as much as they need to. Mentioning he was refreshing the page feels telling.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh snap Death Curse Reunion

Hi Mush!

Is it time to restart the Holy Church of Noraa

What happened between Pooky/Noraa/Mush/Toog in death curse? What were the alignments of each player and which team won?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

you're 100% code red dunn? no retractions, not a gambit?

Yes

Okay.

Vote: Dunn

Did this have anything to do with Gamma talking about Code Red earlier in like 28? I still dont think I understand where this started

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Noraa come back

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You know, I figured I’d get more reactions to my RQS than I have so far, maybe people just don’t care when I do it anymore.
I am curious why Critter thinks Dunn is an easy read though.

Not surprising given that at least half of this playerbase are old timers who thinks RQS is some primordial sin.

With that said:

1. Saw 1.
2. Doctor. Finding Mafia is one thing, but predicting who Mafia will kill is a totally different story. Trying to stay off the radar as town is kinda hard too.
3. I am perfect. I have no weaknesses.
4. I would personally like to end the game before reaching LimLo.

---

Page 2: Meta talk. Not really worth commenting on those.

---

Page 3 - 4: Not going to lie, I had to read this few times trying to grasp what's going on. It still did not compute completely. I have no experience with Dunnstral (Or I could be pretending. Alt and all, hehe.) so "Dunnstral would or would not do this" part just flies over my CPU. I have my own theory about what is going on though. I think saying my theory out loud would not help anyone, so I am going to shut my speaker and VOTE: Dunnstral.

Whoever thought EMMI wasnt an alt, here's this^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Noraa come back

wat

idc about anyone else honestly. like i caught one scum and maybe will catch another later so im doing amazing. pooky agrees with me and we've basically just got the game solve so life is just sexy as fuck.

What's your poe beyond dunn?

Adding to this question - I'm asking because you say you have the game solved but only have Dunn as scum right now, and say you dont have others right now, implying if you have the game "solved" you have a small enough POE to justify the statement. This can only be the case if you have enough townreads to narrow the POE and I also haven't noticed many of those.

Kinda feels like you're in do nothing mode which is where scum should be right now assuming Wisdom/Critter are both town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I used to enjoy diet Mountain Dew but can’t really have it with my anxiety medication (it’s got grapefruit juice in it)
But I’d probably still enjoy a Code Red on occasion (aka WHEN I CAN FIND ONE (read that in the voice of Dad Turner from Fairly Odd Parents))

Critter had no problem with Gamma talking about mountain dew flavors btw

I only spent the one post on it pretty much though, and I’ve generated real content

At the time you hadn't though. Just an observation.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Whoever thought EMMI wasnt an alt, here's this^

lol who thought that

It's safe to assume EMMI is at least somewhat experienced because it's a gimmick account and I feel like those are almost always created by players with an established meta looking to have a more relaxing game where they dont have to play as hard to their established meta.

i was actually reading emmi as a new player and not as a gimmick account, fwiw

one of the vft heads

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I did it because it guarantees scum will see it and the potential motivation, if he is town, is to draw the NK off of LLD, or potentially if he really has a role, to be able to play aggressively and WIFOM scum into not shooting him because he's trying to draw a kill. However, if he is scum and makes it deep, this guarantees that someone who lives longer than me will poke at the soft later and not let it go unnoticed.

uh am i reading this right? you outed him in order to make sure scum sees it to draw the nk off of lld onto him? why wasn't gamma's claim sufficient for that exactly? why do u think scum would kill unknown-pr-critter over macho-ic?
this doesn't make sense to me

Well you're only reading my post as though Critter is town which you cant know from a town POV. I wasn't thinking about Gamma's claim, but Gamma's role as claimed is on the weaker side. I don't think it's sufficient to draw the kill. An unknown PR could have the capability to investigate or interfere with the scum. It may make more sense to kill an unknown PR over LLD, especially if LLD is not leading wagons on scum. The Macho was announced by the mod so scum knows it's not even like a gambit for a BP IC or something. Scum can take the LLD kill whenever they want.

Anyways, you dont seem to be considering the whole post - part of the reason to point out the softs is in case Critter is scum, but you haven't considered that. If VFT ever flips scum, I think this is a perspective slip that spews town!Critter

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko, EMMI, StrangeMatter
Let’s narrow it down to 3 slots

Can folks tell me why we don’t eliminate these slots? I don’t see any reason not to go with any of these three, and I don’t disagree with Gamma on keeping the day short.

Weird that you attribute a short day to Gamma when Critter is the broken record repeating the day is already long enough and should be ended.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyos most likely town and the push on her is boring at best

If I am right on Kyo >85% confidence
You’re scum 75% of the time with her.

I don’t see how you get a townread on Kyo at all.

I just played isekai with the notscience head. I'm assuming that has something to do with it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I did it because it guarantees scum will see it and the potential motivation, if he is town, is to draw the NK off of LLD, or potentially if he really has a role, to be able to play aggressively and WIFOM scum into not shooting him because he's trying to draw a kill. However, if he is scum and makes it deep, this guarantees that someone who lives longer than me will poke at the soft later and not let it go unnoticed.

uh am i reading this right? you outed him in order to make sure scum sees it to draw the nk off of lld onto him? why wasn't gamma's claim sufficient for that exactly? why do u think scum would kill unknown-pr-critter over macho-ic?
this doesn't make sense to me

Well you're only reading my post as though Critter is town which you cant know from a town POV. I wasn't thinking about Gamma's claim, but Gamma's role as claimed is on the weaker side. I don't think it's sufficient to draw the kill. An unknown PR could have the capability to investigate or interfere with the scum. It may make more sense to kill an unknown PR over LLD, especially if LLD is not leading wagons on scum. The Macho was announced by the mod so scum knows it's not even like a gambit for a BP IC or something. Scum can take the LLD kill whenever they want.

Anyways, you dont seem to be considering the whole post - part of the reason to point out the softs is in case Critter is scum, but you haven't considered that. If VFT ever flips scum, I think this is a perspective slip that spews town!Critter

This is a whole lotta nope. If I am scum then posts still exist later. Do you think I can just take Mountain Dew and dissolve my prior posts?

(Joke) I claim infinite shot post deleter.

This is you trying so desperately to come up with a Townie explanation for something you should not do as town and something I think you did as scum.

I'm not guaranteed to be around to point to these posts later.

Since you're too lazy to do the homework yourself:

I feel like mechanically Math and House will sort themselves out. There's no way this is theatre so I'mma big dip on this
VOTE: Wake
Still down for Titus, Ythan, A50, but Wake actually has a wagon. Less down for A50 because of the Watcher softs. Now that we have 2 claims out I think it's good to voice this now rather than waiting until toMorrow which was originally what I'd planned. I think making sure that town!Math and town!House and the scumteam aware of the softs is good now because if all 3 are town it's going to make it difficult for scum to choose correctly.

By the way, scum tried to shoot A50 and town!Math successfully protected A50 that Night in this game. You can whine about how I shouldn't do this as town but I've done it before and will do it again.

Why

do I do this as scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

All replies to individual posts are in

boldgold

within the quotes.

Let’s go through Kyo’s entire ISO shall we:
353 - Brought up flavor unprompted

This was prompted by my role PM which I'd just read and was excited about, because livewire was my favorite before I tried baja blast

358 - Claims flavor unprompted and says “No” to some question not present in thread

Dunn didn't @me but he was implying I got Mello Yello from 354.

393 - More flavor jokes
398 - More flavor jokes/spec

If memes are a crime then lock me up chief

415 - More flavor talk

Again, see the Mountain Dew wiki I linked in 1088

421 - Flavor argument votes the IC sixteen minutes later. This is premeditated.

This is actually a break in time between me coming out of the bathroom (where I was reading on mobile) wherein I was interacting with my family, as I recall I was trying to get my daughter to eat her dinner because it was already past bedtime. I make one more post before putting her to bed then play Destiny 2 with my wife for the next 4-ish hours before I go to bed and continue reading and posting from bed

Let’s assume not and she REALLY likes Mountain Dew.
Then she reads from the start of the game to where LLD pushes Dunn.
She would see that it is for a flavor based reason she pushed Dunn.
For someone who says they like Mountain Dew and are talking about flavor a lot voting someone because they did flavor spec is bad.

Spoiler:

Wow, what an absolutely wild assumption to make! /s

My role PM says town and it says livewire. I know for a fact, at this point, that there is nothing in a town role pm that guarantees Code Red is a scum flavor, barring something stupid like an Informed townie, in which case LLD would have been specific and said she knows Code Red is a scum fakeclaim because she is informed. My assumption at this point from reading my PM and the OP is that scum are competitor brands and town are mountain dew flavors.

It wasn't a flavor-based reason. LLD pushed Dunn because she refused to believe that town could just claim a flavor and be considered clear because otherwise why make her an IC when she could just claim her dew flavor? She believed the concept that a flavor could clear you was wrong, at least that's what it looks like now. At the time, with the way she was posting, it sounded more like she slipped trying to do something overly aggressive for clout. I see now she just had made some kind of (likely fallacious) connection between herself being an IC and code red being a scum flavor.

450 - Still talking flavor and saying she didn’t get LLD’s case and says her own slot softed a comptetitor brand yet it is a yikes of Dunn’s slot somehow. Kyo scum more than likely makes Dunn town that’s yikes.

Adding 450 for context:

Spoiler: 450

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

Look at the time stamps, I'm not sure I've gone 5 minutes without either being asked to explain something or accused of something. I've been under barrage this whole time without having even read the game or really

done anything

yet.

And there it is, unprompted.

I'm really confident on Dunn flipping scum today. This answer instead of just giving other thoughts is... yeah.

I mean it really seems possible in these recent posts but I still dont understand where you got the idea from your role that hardclaiming Code Red is a scumclaim. I understand the argument for scum!Dunn to claim this as a way to garner towncred, but I dont see why town!Dunn would not do it.

And I dont understand from the reveal of your flavor, which was diet dew, where you got the idea that code red was scum-indicative.

Something I do find odd about Dunn's posts now I have more context is that he seems to have inconsistent thoughts about the flavors that town/scum will have.

He thought you scumreading him for code red was an indicator scum could have the one true soda, but also he light TRed Toogeloo for softing a competitor mello-yello which is a yikes for me

Context on 450 is that in the bolded, I explain that it is a slight contradiction for Dunnstral to demonstrate that in his mind, scum could possibly have Mountain Dew flavors, and at the same time in his mind, Toogeloo softed a competitor brand and Toog gets a light TR for that? It just felt really wrong - I think later Dunn explained he had to Google Mello Yello and only then did he realize it was not a Mountain Dew flavor - not sure who it was, but I think it was Dunn, and I'm pretty sure

someone

mentioned this.

469 - Says claiming flavor in your opening post goes against the status quo and shouldn’t be done unless protown benefit or Miller claim. Since no Miller claim and no protown benefit established this is pure hunting.

I think it's understandable that you read it the way you did, especially considering how tunneled you are right now. However, 469 is not me

saying

nobody should claim flavor. There was a small interaction in 319/320 between Toogeloo and Towelie. I was agreeing with my predecessor there, countering Towelie's assertion in 320 that there was no status quo, and saying that there

is

a status quo, and that status quo is:
Don't claim in your first post unless you are a miller or there is a protown benefit. I didn't say it was wrong or scummy to do it. I said the status quo is to not do it. Use your little insect noggin and think on this - how often are scum actively avoiding the status quo?

Now let’s go back to that post I hate so very much. Just a moment.

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

Dunn is code red and not a gambit of some kind this is established. Why the fuck are EMMI and this new slot shooting the shit about flavors here. At this point the claim had already happened and this is one of only like under 10 posts from the EMMI slot. This is also about flavor.

There is no way flavor is not important to scum.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that flavor is definitely not important to scum. Cabd mentioned this game is going to play out like a Dew-themed Normal game from ages past. I don't expect there to be any kind of soup kills or information about any flavors' roles, and if I'm wrong on that, fuck me I guess. It's not something I'm concerned about. As for why I responded to EMMI, again, I like Mountain Dew. I wanted to voice my opinion on the flavor.

Combining this with 421 does not make sense as an argument.

Pretend for a moment LLD is not an IC and Kyo is town.

Pretend LLD is doing exactly what is proposed here. She’s scum who wants to push Dunn. How would she not realize what flavors she had? Wouldn’t she de facto know what flavors town had? And who says town only gets Mountain Dew flavors? It’s on or off brand.

I'm assuming that in the game of Mountain Dew Mafia, that "on-brand" means Mountain Dew, and "competitor brand" means non-Mountain Dew sodas with a similar lemon/lime flavor and lots of caffeine. That's not a stretch. She never committed to a role claim which specifically guarantees Code Red is a scum flavor, so it wouldn't be a problem if she were scum. She could make that argument even if she knew (by being scum) scum didn't have Code Red, because it is known that Code Red and Baja Blast are favorites of Cabd's. He did a red pill/blue pill reference with them in isekai, and it sounded in isekai like that wasn't the first time he did it. Maybe he did it in that Tarot game where Marcistar got Cobra-Kaied, it seemed like Cabd and the Hydra of fferylt/notscience were joking around about that. ffery modded Tarot.

472 - STILL talking flavor and now chalks a mistake up to “misremembering”. When do we get to an actual read?
482 - Asks why she’s being @‘d after claiming a flavor.

Apparently some mystical flavor claim is supposed to get her to where she never gives reads or interacts with a good chunk of the player base?

This is the problem with reading ISOs lazily. Like when you commented on 358 without proper context, you're again missing the same context here. Dunn requoted 354 and @ed me. I already responded to 354 in 358. 358 was a flavorclaim. I don't think flavor claiming magically makes me not have to interact with anyone, I think I already responded to 354 and I wanted to know what Dunn wanted with his @. Normally when you @someone with a naked quote like that it is because it is an outstanding question they skipped. There was no question in 354, but it seemed implied that Dunn was asking about what he thought was Toogeloo's Mello Yello soft. My response to 354 was that I'm livewire (meaning not Mello Yello, meaning Toogeloo was not softing Mello Yello).

493 - LLD please forgive me but I think this post is meant to buddy you.

This is a response to your 489.

Spoiler: 489/493

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

Implying toog had cred, that slot was cringe. I'm not sold on SM being scum from a first read, I believe english is not his first language and that he's relatively new to forum mafia. Actually strikes me as a potentially easy mislim for scum so I'm suspicious of vague pushes on them at this point. There are plenty of players under the radar so far, and the focus on SM feels like it could be telling.

You’re Toog? And yes Toog had cred. I didn’t think scum would provoke until you came in being all scummy like and going whoa.

I know I'm toog, and he was acting cringe to the point that any towncred he may have had early would be gone because of how oafishly he behaved with regards to LLD. I recall seeing some of his posts and thinking they seemed scummy, but mostly what stood out to me was the way he was talking to LLD about her IC reveal was really cringe.

490-499 Stops me from trying to figure out Dunn’s alignment with some ridiculous crap

Actually, I wasn't trying to stop you from finding Dunn's alignment, I was pointing out back in 470 that your push seemed like shade, not sorting, and you and I were continuing an interaction there. I'm noticing a lot of missing context here, and some of it has been missing the context of your own posts. You seem to be forgetting a lot of your side of our interaction, and I can't help but think you're not genuinely committed to it if you can't recall (or don't acknowledge) your own part in it. Full context below:

Spoiler: 490-499

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

But she’s confirmed town, why do you give a shit about her motivations?

Because she is an IC, people will be more inclined to sheep instead of think for themselves. LLD isn't a follower, and people will take advantage of that, and she needs to be told when she is probably wrong, or at least have a devil's advocate to open up other possibilities.

Assume that I am wrong and Dunn is town. Why hasn’t he given reads? This reads more like you don’t like LLD’s playstyle vs a scummy motivation here. The only thing he’s done that’s memorable is attack you which means you’re more than likely town if Dunn is scum. If Dunn is town he really needs to start re-reading the game and give thoughts. Dude can’t make up his mind more than me which says a lot.

This feels slightly out of touch. Dunn's started posting thoughts already at this point and Critter is latched to a previous gamestate and using it to perpetuate shade on Dunn.

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

But she’s confirmed town, why do you give a shit about her motivations?

Because she is an IC, people will be more inclined to sheep instead of think for themselves. LLD isn't a follower, and people will take advantage of that, and she needs to be told when she is probably wrong, or at least have a devil's advocate to open up other possibilities.

Assume that I am wrong and Dunn is town. Why hasn’t he given reads? This reads more like you don’t like LLD’s playstyle vs a scummy motivation here. The only thing he’s done that’s memorable is attack you which means you’re more than likely town if Dunn is scum. If Dunn is town he really needs to start re-reading the game and give thoughts. Dude can’t make up his mind more than me which says a lot.

This feels slightly out of touch. Dunn's started posting thoughts already at this point and Critter is latched to a previous gamestate and using it to perpetuate shade on Dunn.

Thoughts yes. Reads no.

Okay but you literally said if he's town he needs to reread and give thoughts?

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

I asked for opinions aka reads/stances. Not something like “unusual” which is not an opinion/read/stance. It’s something if I want to look up I can.

Why are you nitpicking what is an obvious point?

I'm not nitpicking, I think its disingenuous to say he hadn't posted thoughts and call him scum for it, when it seemed like he had recently started posting the very thoughts you were looking for. Rather than interacting with those posts you shaded him for not posting thoughts. Then when called out on it to say you were asking for reads, not thoughts. Like sure back in 216 you said opinions but I'm not really going to remember that as I read through for the first time and it really stood out in 400some that you had shared Dunn for not posting thoughts, because I had literally just read some

hot opinions

not 1-2 pages prior I feel like

501 Is the first reads we get from her. Like damn

I don't think 501 is very late to be giving reads considering it was 2AM the same day I replaced in and I'd only done one read-through on mobile. I wouldn't have posted them if you weren't being obnoxious and trying to shade me for not having reads posted already, when at the same time we were actively engaging. 501 reads are rushed and probably garbage - do not reference them for legacy. I will update reads before EoD.

Gamma Emerald
Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Noraa)
Venus Fly Trap (hydra of skitter30 and lilith2013)
Dunnstral
Wisdom
Lady Lambdadelta
Something_Smart
Critter
StrangeMatter
Toogeloo

Oh Emmi not unvoting Dunn when they popped in seemed weird, felt like they were aware of the VC but had no concern that they were on a leading wagon without having read.

Towelie hasn't pinged me except that he doesnt like baja blast? Very suspicious

Gonna combine 501-4

EMMI is top tier town for voting Dunn, asking a flavor question, and disappearing?

This reads list is faker than shit.

Kyo/EMMI/Towelie is where I am at atm. She also puts HERSELF at the bottom of her reads.

Spoiler: 501 Context

Waiting on reads Kyo tick tock tick tock

You scum, mush town, gamma town, nora possibly scumclaimed but nobody else notices these things. Wisdom obstinate, need to review him and toog in iso real quick, as his vote sticking in place feels wrong. However it's not likely you and wisdom are both scum so wrong on at least one of those

Dunnstral idk, I've had vibes he was scum at times but he doesnt feel like he did in isekai and I tracked him to the kill completely by accident there, had no idea he may be scum. I was setting up to Watch him later and he happened to be killing that Night

SM feels like limbait so town. Flytrap is POE scum.

Gonna check playerlist for the resr as others in game are escaping me.

Towelie has already pointed this out but it's clear with the context of 501 which you omitted for some reason that I'm looking at the player list for the players I couldn't remember when making 501. I've actually already pointed out later on that even when looking at the playerlist I forgot S_S. 504 is what I was referencing. I commented on everyone else besides Towelie, EMMI, and S_S in my 501. 504 was me looking at the player list, looking at 501, and seeing who I didn't make a comment on, then commenting my thoughts (or lack thereof) on those players. I also omitted LLD because she was already flipped IC.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

472 - STILL talking flavor and now chalks a mistake up to “misremembering”. When do we get to an actual read?

I missed replying individually to this one, but I do have issues with remembering things at times. I have a great memory for some things and a terrible memory for others. Maybe an ego search will reveal other times I've misremembered. Searching for misremember shows a

recent

towngame where I misremembered another player's townplay when metaing her, posts from this game, and one post from 2017's civilization mafia where I said I misremembered something as scum, and that was so long ago idek if it was a lie. I'm a forgetful person and part of my scumgame is just to be open so I could have actually forgotten and used that to my advantage to make a genuine post. Like in Large 233 when I revealed why I faked being Neighbor with town!Anya. It bought me some time, unfortunately I got POEd/guiltied in the end. Had to bank on an even or odd- night investigative claim being x-shot and having less shots than he claimed, otherwise game was unwinnable due to POE. Turned out Gamma was what he claimed, and he got me.

Here are search results for "remember*" which have 10 pages to sift through - you could also try searching "iirc" and "recall", as those are both phrases I prefer to use when talking about my memory. Heck, try "memory" too if you're so inclined.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And who says town only gets Mountain Dew flavors? It’s on or off brand.

competitor brand = not mountain dew drinks

i seriously dont see how one interprets this any other way

-b

https://www.bevindustry.com/articles/94 ... innovation

Incorrect. Two seconds google mwah

Sorry, but what did you google to get that article and how does it indicate that Mountain Dew F'in Hot is a competitor to Mountain Dew?

Because I googled "mountain dew competitor brand" and this is the first result:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

She even says in 501 (the post you didn’t quote to instead post where she c/pasted the OP and then proceed to ask why she left herself at the bottom of the list) that she doesn’t think both you and Wisdom can be scum together despite the push.

Not despite,

because

. Just clarifying here. I feel like they can't both be scum pushing this hard for my mislim. It makes a lot more sense if 0-1 of them are scum. I guess despite works in some sense because despite the way the pushes look to me, I'm thinking it's more likely we're looking at 0-1 scum rather than 2, but yeah. The idea there is at most 1 scum amongst them stems from the combined effort they're making, and the complement to that is that 1-2 of them are town, not based on the content of their pushes, but on the likely scenario in which at most 1 is scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You know what. I am borrowing from MathBlade. It helped him nail a scum team 3/3 can everyone do this?

viewtopic.php?p=13054226#p13054226

Lmao grabbing your own shit and pretending it's not you - was waiting to out this after I found 121 but now I know this is you and i know this verbiage is your scumgame's excuse to waffle on a town slot.

VOTE: critter

Critter is MathBlade. MathBlade in Calculasia called town!Flea a teapot read - described faer as someone that, given time, alignment can be determined. Like, leave the tea on the stove long enough, and it will boil. He did the same thing to Dwlee in a mini recently where Dwlee, Math, and I were in ELO, and I thoroughly dug through his meta checking if he used that terminology in any town games. I am 100% certain critter is scum here and that he TMIed Dunnstral as town. Receipts for this read are coming. Even if we dont do this today because we want to go with LLD for the day, never forget this post.

At first it was hard to tell who Critter was but more recently he's slipping out of persona. I was going to finish catching up and then go ego dive MathBlade and Critter to check if they post in the same timeframes, but that wont be necessary anymore. Makes total sense that he would want me dead too as I nuked his buddy DGB in that mini on D1 out of a completely Stalled gamestate and he's desperate to get to N1 to get me out of here

Is this what it feels like to be Koba in a game where I'm scum? I think it is.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you're going to get people making arbitrary decisions that they don't believe in and that's not going to tell you much.

That's how scum!Math plays.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Critter is MathBlade

you dont say

You're in scum's pocket, cut the sarcastic shit and rethink

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My instinct is telling me the way Gamma is treating me now is reminiscent of scum!Gamma in OMB, but my only confident SR is on Critter right now. I still have a lot of rereading to do - keep getting distracted, which is quite possibly the whole point of what Critter has been doing toDay.

Pedit: interesting timing, I was already writing the above when you asked

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Working theory right now is those 2, plus one of EMMI, StrangeMatter, M&M

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Theatre is the only possibility imo, so unless it's exactly Critter, Gamma, M&M, Gamma probably not scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Speaking of the troll claim, would be interesting to see Critter's reaction there. When LLD and Dunn fought, he was involved in discussion without taking a stance on it (121).

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mushy/Dunn/Gamma?

LLD, my recommendation for today is that we eliminate Milk & Mocha. I think Pooky is playing to scum meta, and Noraa is playing to scum meta. At least, they should not be allowed to post as they currently are in thread unchecked. They still haven't explained why they are scumreading me.

This is hilarious. No lmao.

@M&M Failure to comply will result in assured termination this day phase. I’m already at the point where you’re probably confscummed for me.

oooooh so scary!!!! me and pooky shivering in our jester boots

Now now critter, no guessing. that is naughty naughty

I am not guessing. *confused spider eyes look at you*

Mush wagon sounding good I think. All aboard?

Mush wagon please?

To be clear I also have no interest in reading a different game to sort you. This game is a different game and therefore you are a different role unless you have the exact same role with the same teammates or lack thereof. There are some things that carry over but those involve mannerisms, not scenarios. This seems like grandstanding.

Parity vanilla cop is almost always exclusively town btw. For the sheer reason if given to scum the parity is not necessary except for fake claims. Scum would be able to use parity cop to find PRs or not PRs based on one target being a buddy then just claim they visited the townie. This means if Gamma is scum it’s most likely predetermined and not a parity cop which is like not happening.

Pooky was clearly trying to eat a nightkill with that claim trying to give LLD another day.

Can y’all quit being pissed at each other and scum hunt?

K thanks bye!

Actually though M&M and Critter are in full theater mode and I would not be surprised if the scumteam is exactly those 3. Definitely Critter and M&M. Gamma is tbd.

Gamma, who makes sense as Critter and M&M's partner?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma, if scum, is definitely a rolecop

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Secondly, there’s nothing to finish.

If Dunn is town is LLD scum? Maybe? Maybe not? LLD could be gambiting or just going off her gut.
If Dunn is scum is LLD town? Maybe? Maybe not? LLD could be gambiting because Dunn was like “oh shit scum again”.

I won’t rush to a conclusion

until things boil

. That’s why I said expect. Not certain.

The below post contains a spoiler comparing Math's treatment of Dwlee to Flea the Magician. Now we can compare 121 to the posts within the spoiler and see that Dunnstral and LLD were being left to boil - both TMIed as town, though LLD is already revealed.

I started digging deeper into his meta while reading Calculasia when I noticed he talked about Flea The Magician (fae was town) being readable like a chicken, if you put them in the oven and wait long enough you'll know what they are. It reminded me of what he said about Dwlee earlier in this game:

Spoiler: teapot read

Kyo you specifically posted [redacted] which is part of why I think you're full of crap.

I cant post anything specific about an ongoing game. If you're town you can figure it out for yourself.

Then if we can’t talk about an ongoing game it shouldn’t be alluded to. Is there another way to imply what you mean without skirting rules?

I said directly what I mean. I thought dwlee was lying about their eyes glazing over, like making up an excuse for why they're not very involved right now.

I'm not going to lie about being diagnosed with inattentiveness for mafia. If you think I'm scum whatever but that reason is absolutely awful.

I don't think you're lying about a diagnosis, but I do think you're not as in the game as you would be if you were town

Got it. I misunderstood. I was thinking you/Dwlee were talking about ongoing. I missed the context in the speed read. Dwlee in my opinion is not a good liar. I think that pushing them over RL if they are scum is the wrong way to go about it. Dwlee scum I think if you make them talk they will scumfirm or townfirm themselves but they’re a teapot read.

Yup.

I ask people to “prove” where they stand based on things to see if they are consistent. Votes is a way to do that. Sometimes I use questions.

We have right around 2 days until end of day and I have to start work in a moment.
Right now, you’re the top runner for elimination so testing you and your words is my priority.
If you don’t try to lead a wagon around someone pretty fast odds are you’ll be the flip.

So if you’re town it’s in your best interest to case someone or be as active as possible to find a probable scum and convince the rest of us they’re scum or to do something.

I do think you’re a teapot read and if you just do it I think you’re sortable.

A teapot read is one that boils overtime when put under heat. Eventually the flavor of the person will be known. Players like you and flea are that way to me.

Then case her.

In the additional games I was examining I was ctrl-f'ing his ISOs for words like "burn, heat, fire, tea, teapot, kettle, oven, chicken, turkey, roast, time, wait" etc. and couldn't find it in the first couple of towngames. When I was opening his ISOs I realized he almost always replaces in the same way, with one distinct difference. Sometimes he uses an exclamation point, and other times he does not.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yes I use boil reads and reads with time as both alignments.

This is demonstrably false. You only do it as scum, I spent at least an hour checking all your games for the past couple of years looking for any words that could be used to phrase this concept, and found they are only present in scumgames of yours.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You did this stupid shit in the normal too. It was wrong then. It’s wrong now. I have roughly 10 years + mafia forum experience on this site and probably if you take the other sites and throw them together even more. I assure you I have a unique way of phrasing things due to my brain chemistry so I pick my words very carefully even when I fast type. That’s how I know I do not have that tell you have made up.

That boil/wait is standard I don’t know. Now I could sit here and glorify you with a response but I have no desire to ever read through all of my games when it’s fundamentally irrelevant.

The big questions are am I scum? And who with?

I am quite literally with > 90% confidence one of the few players you will not be able to language tell on.

What am I doing in the game that’s scummy?

You are scum, with M&M, possibly with Gamma as a third.

This isn't a language tell, because you don't voice this concept of a teapot read when you're town in

any

way. If it were a language tell, it would have to be the case that you only say boil/teapot when scum, but when town you'll use other terms to express the same concept. This is not the case, so this is not a language tell. The fact is that you don't have this type of thought as town at all - you only pretend to have it as scum in order to buy time and end up on the right side of things.

In this game:

• You've done something you've only done before as scum and attempted to fencesit through an early TvT, giving yourself away to a meta tell that you a) thought would not be noticed, and b) did not know you had to avoid this game, because you're on an alt and I (the player that
  presumably
  first noticed the tell) didn't start in the game; I replaced in.
  
• You are attempting to control the town by way of encouraging the "ideal" play, but only when it benefits the goal you have in mind, which is to eliminate town.
  
• You're insistent on pushing me for obviously NAI reasons, and it only holds up as long as I don't know who you are, because I know that you know that I can be dangerous to scum after Mini 2223. You made it apparent in Mini 2238 that you believe that as town, which means that as scum, you would be thinking the same thing without saying it, and looking to take me out before I can become a threat. This is what you're doing now, and I refuse to believe town!Math drops this perception of me without mentioning anything about having it in the first place, because you have been open about the fact you have meta experience with most of the playerlist.
  
• Your response to being scumread by me now is almost exactly the same as it was in 2223. You deflect, saying my points do not even warrant a response. You act like I have not already answered obvious questions, like the one posted above: "Am I scum", and "and who with". This worked until ELO last time (I goldfished), but this time I know what to expect from you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

first of all *snag*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

mods been getting too many pagetops off my long posts while I'm composing another one

[ssbm_Kyouko]

viewtopic.php?p=13039116#p13039116

Alt account 10 minutes given time I can read Cakez.

Just stop this.

If I am scum why?

This is not an example of the same concept. First of all, that was an anonymous game where you would have never been able to express a read based on the player being Cakez, as speculating on player identities was against the rules of that game. You did not

use

that as an excuse to delay reading a player/situation until the majority opinion had settled, or until later when you needed to pivot. All you did there was express that you could have read him.

For this to be an example, you would have to have avoided expressing an opinion on Cakez or on a heated situation he was in, at the same time saying that given time his alignment will be revealed.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Critter is MathBlade

just want to say that this is utterly awful form and i hope you never do it again

notty suspected it was mathblade ever since he brought up mathblade unprompted, but at the surface this feels very much like w13 math where he tunneled on a few slots most of the game and kinda refused to accept anyone else's worldview, so knowing it's math makes me townread the play more.

-b

I mean you're welcome to that opinion but I think it would be worse to play against my wincon and ignore the obvious scum in front of me who has spewed several players as town. I'd expect Koba to dunk on me if I was on an alt as scum and they found out.

Math tried to use Warehouse 13 meta to justify his scumgame in 2223:

Spoiler: Quotes about Warehouse 13 (from 2223)

Idk if math is like trying to sublty save manatee by pretending that their push is based on my honesty about how i view titus.

I think that if you want to read me, seriously understand that I in general, do not save people as any alignment. I argue and advocate but I do not “save” people without a mod confirmed inno. As scum I do not “save” buddies and as town I do not “save” townreads I defend them. If my defense fails and they are town then I learn who pushed them and who is likely scum from it depending upon how I push.

Take Warehouse 13 where I was sure DGB was town. I fought for it the entire time. It didn’t work and then I could go back to my PoE which pretty much was Cakez or Titus and got Cakez. There’s this illusion of “good” doesn’t miselim and having to be right that kinda permeates. It’s about stopping the wrong. If scum have no places to hide we are forced to win. I will sacrifice a VT to get a deep wolf.

Mafia is like chess to me and I ask “random” questions in advance and then circle back later and check for consistency and see if their vibe matches expected.

Eg if we have a ton of miselims and the person hasn’t been listened to all game. Are they frustrated? Demoralized? Or are they the same?

If they thought they were poked by a bad question on D1 is that annoyance still there D4?

Are they remembering their stance on a person throughout the game?

Scum don’t generally remember the micro trivialities and care about the now.

By pushing you on your Titus push (yes it was a push you’re not convincing me otherwise) I can check that against your other Koba games and see if you’re playing with a similar mindset.

Take Warehouse 13 where I was sure DGB was town. I fought for it the entire time. It didn’t work and then I could go back to my PoE which pretty much was Cakez or Titus and got Cakez. There’s this illusion of “good” doesn’t miselim and having to be right that kinda permeates. It’s about stopping the wrong. If scum have no places to hide we are forced to win. I will sacrifice a VT to get a deep wolf.

Take this from earlier

If you are a VT I give 0 qualms about elimming you if it nets us the last scum or wins the game.

I am cold brutal and efficient Town.

I'd been digging for his main for a while and once I suspected it was Math I went to start reading again and was instantly alarmed by 121. I wasn't going to out anything until I was sure it was Math via checking the posting patterns and other languaging (such as writing "scape goat" as 2 words), because my hard scumread of 121

only

makes sense if Critter is Math. I was speeding through the catchup and was going to dive both accounts' egos immediately afterward when I saw he'd posted that and I knew it would be a waste of time to do that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Speaking of meta, what does ssbm scum play look like?

1320 and 1549 look like town to me, I think that they are being tunneled still is surprising

Large Normal 233, Mafia Goon, last alive on my team, lost
Mini Normal 2218, Mafia Odd-Night Strongman, lost (crashed and burned mechanically by shooting traitor!T3, but played decently enough the first Day to dodge some SRs)
Large Normal 236, Mafia 1-Shot Loud Visitor, lost, eliminated D1 (got dunked on hard by Koba and Norwee)

I used to win games as scum in my first year or so, but have not been doing so hot after hiatus. Pre-hiatus, I was scum in Birds of Paradise, Newbie 1764: Wind, Open 668: Diffusion of Power, Civilization Mafia, and Elemental Trinity (Hydra with Alisae, "No Bullying Allowed")

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean like, you had a bunch of questionable ideas and then got confused why nobody was listening to you.

Describes Math's towngame

I would love it. Even if it’s just me. Because more sorts.

All right, here goes:

Gamma Emerald
Towelie
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha
Venus Fly Trap
Dunnstral
Critter
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko

Puts him in the elimination pile

:thinking_emoji:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I disagree with the assessment of Math but why is he in your elimination pile if it appears you are recognizing this as his townplay?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I would love it. Even if it’s just me. Because more sorts.

All right, here goes:

Gamma Emerald
Towelie
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha
Venus Fly Trap
Dunnstral
Critter
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko

Was examining this list for who is missing of the 13 as there are 10 players pooled here, obviously LLD and S_S himself are missing, then I realized Wisdom is the last and remembered the suggestion Wisdom made that S_S should do something_wise lmao. I'm also fine having Wisdom off the table - it looks very likely that the 0-1 scum amongst Critter, Wisdom is Critter at this point.

To put some structure to things, here are some reads separated by hyphens indicating degrees of confidence (DoC).

Literal conftown: LLD
-
Scum: Critter
Likely town because the wagon on M&M didn't move when pushed by LLD, but the one on VFT moved fast: Venus Fly Trap
Pre-flip town that are spewed by scum!Critter. If Critter flips town, this moves to townlean with same DoC as Towelie read: Dunnstral
Pre-flip town is likely, due to interactions [player] has had with/around scum!Critter: MUSHSHAGANA, Wisdom
-
Pre-flip town is likely, due to interactions [player] has had with/around scum!Critter: S_S
Plausible scumbuddy to Critter: Milk & Mocha (also has been scummy individually and does not drop DoC if Critter flips town)
Leantown: Towelie
-
Could be scum with Critter/M&M, but can't be scum if M&M is town: Gamma Emerald (Moves to highest DoC if Critter and M&M both flip scum. Do not let him into ELO if this happens.)
--POE Line--
Pool of players that could replace Gamma as the last scum with Critter/M&M - basically null: EMMI, StrangeMatter

POE line here indicates that these reads are the leftovers that come from my other reads

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My lim pool is, by order of preference:

Highly preferred: Critter
Would eliminate happily: M&M
Still happy with these, but they feel like compromise given the confidence I have in scum!Critter: EMMI/StrangeMatter

deadline compromise: MUSH, S_S, Gamma, VFT

pedit: @bell regarding VFT wagon, this is fair, but I think scum are more likely to sheep the IC when the IC is pushing town than scum. I think if M&M was town we would have seen some more traction. Not to mention they've felt a bit "do-nothing" and still haven't explained how the game was "solved" back when they announced their read on Dunn and said they were going to chill now because they have it solved.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

nyeh!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not so fast Cabd

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I disagree with the assessment of Math but why is he in your elimination pile if it appears you are recognizing this as his townplay?

Oh I misinterpreted. I never said that was his townplay? And besides I have you in my elimination pile and I townread you. It's because I recognize that my reads are often bad, and mafia is about teamwork which requires compromise.

So what do you think this indicates for Critter then? I did

assume

you were TRing him because of this post, because if that's what I thought was happening, I would TR him for it:

I mean like, you had a bunch of questionable ideas and then got confused why nobody was listening to you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah reread it again because that post is very clear. I am noting my compromising. Not playing word semantics with you and Kyo.

I just went to your if not Kyo this. Extremely ungrammatical, but I gather that I'm now your second scumread behind Kyo. This seems to have been based on a misunderstanding. Do you retract it?
What do I think you are doing? I obviously don't know, you are either trying to advance town wincon or trying to advance scum wincon. Can you be more specific?
You have been trying to get reads to heatmap. Fair enough, that worked for you before, though I'm skeptical whether it will work here. I'm not sure how that's supposed to help LLD.
You are not tunneling Kyo, thank you, I appreciate it.
I have said several times that it's your town play. Also sounds like a misunderstanding. I had you as leantown a while ago but that's it.

LLD can use the lists to pick a read in her townread’s would elim pile.

So she can go say “Players A B C D are my townreads who do they agree can go”
Hmmm they all say “E can be elimmed, can they?”

It creates cohesion as well as acts as a barometer for reads

See this is the kind of mumbo jumbo you try to pull on town when you're scum. You try to direct in a mechanically pleasing way that makes sense on the surface but if you stop to think about it, it's more often than not going to be pro-scum to let an uninformed townie pick an execution from amongst 12 players when the ratio of town to scum is 3:1. The odds of hitting town only go up if your buddies have claimed or softed PRs (M&M, possibly Gamma), because it's unlikely that someone who has claimed or softed is going to be prevalent in the elimination piles that LLD would be parsing here. This is like when you directed ELO with "fake voting" in my Mini 2242 that just ended. On the surface it sounds nice, but really this just gives scum an IC to hide behind. There needs to be discussion.

If it comes down to it, sure, I'll probably sheep LLD if it's on one of my compromise slots if I can't get your or M&M, but we still have 3-4 days I believe. I caught DGB with less than that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i am not bell heh

-bork

oh my b

Spoiler:

hehe,

b

I haven't played with either of you though, I'm mostly thinking of your slot as Notscience and someone else because I played with another notsci hydra in Isekai (though I think I was mostly talking to good cop in that game). I'm not very good at differentiating Hydra heads

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I disagree with the assessment of Math but why is he in your elimination pile if it appears you are recognizing this as his townplay?

Oh I misinterpreted. I never said that was his townplay? And besides I have you in my elimination pile and I townread you. It's because I recognize that my reads are often bad, and mafia is about teamwork which requires compromise.

So what do you think this indicates for Critter then? I did

assume

you were TRing him because of this post, because if that's what I thought was happening, I would TR him for it:

I mean like, you had a bunch of questionable ideas and then got confused why nobody was listening to you.

So what do you think this indicates for Critter then? I did assume you were TRing him because of this post, because if that's what I thought was happening, I would TR him for it:

Huh, that's interesting. To me it seems clearly like something that can happen to town or scum. My main point with the post was just that hiding behind the alt was ineffective and it was responsible for some of his problems this game.

I mean the lower post in 1610. What do you think [the content of 1563] indicates for MathBlade: +town, NAI, or +scum? I am confused because if I had the thought you posted in 1563, I would think that is +town for Math, and I think

most

people would agree. I get you have some TRs in your elimination pile so my original question isn't as relevant anymore but I guess you're feeling slippery wrt your Critter takes and I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say about him.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm. I think most would attribute that to town!Math

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'd been hesitating to make a post so close to the pagetop when the mod may be on to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[ssbm_Kyouko]

wowow site literally ate 1625 first time I tried to make it, that was a close one

[ssbm_Kyouko]

blegh I have bad feelings about critter WKing us now

- lilith

I admit I will be incredibly surprised if both you and critter are town here.

And I would be surprised if Skitter isn’t town. I don’t know enough about lillith to judge her but I think Skitter is town. I don’t get your VFT argument at all.

I just want to know where the vote count is so I don’t accidentally hammer.

Why are you considering voting her now when deadline isn't really close, there is clearly support for it already, and you're against this elimination? It's not like we're at the point we have to compromise or risk missing deadline.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: Quack shit, buyers beware

HEY EV3RY !! IT'S ME!! EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE [[Mafiascummer2016]]
GAMME
GAMMA EMERALD!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

VOTE: Dunnstral
HE'S SCUM THIS GAME, []

!!

ANYWAY, IT'S TIME FOR A [[Questionnaire]], COURTESY OF YOUR FAVRITE [[Gameshow Host]], GAMMA EMERALD. DON'T WORRY, THESE QUESTIONS ARE DEFINITELY NOT BEING USED FOR TARGETED ADVERTISING LATER!

1. WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE [[Movie/Color/Ice Cream]]?? YOU'RE WELCOME TO ANSWER [[all/any/none]] OF THIS PART!!
   
2. WHAT'S A ROLE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN IN A MAFIA GAME YET THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE? OR , WHAT'S A ROLE YOU'VE PLAYED BEFORE BUT WANT TO TRY TO PLAY BETTER SOMETIME>
   
3. WHAT DO YOU FEEL LIKE IS YOUR GREATEST STRENTH/WEAKNESS AS [[Town/Scum]]??
   
4. OUT OF THIS PLAYERLIST, WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE IN 3P LIMLO WITH AS EITHER ALIGNMENT?

AS A TOKEN OF GOOD FIATH, I AM GIVING MY OWN ANSWERS AS WELL!!

• MOVIE: [Zombieland]
  COLOR: BLUE
  ICE CREAM: MINT CHOCOLATE
  
• I WOULD HONESTLY LIKE TO BE A CULT LEADER ONCE,
  
• I THINK AS TOWN I'M PRETTY SOLID WITH NARROWING SCUM DOWN, WHILST AS SCUM I HAVE A BIT OF A KNACK FOR CAUSING CHAOS THAT HELPS MY TEAM REGARDLESS OF WHETHER I SURVIVE
  
• AS A NAME BRAND [Town] I’D PROBABLY TAKE [Dunnstral] AND [Wisdom], AS THEY SEEM THE MOST RELIABLE AND READABLE. AS AN OFF BRAND I’D LIKELY TAKE STRANGEMATTER AND TOOGELOO, AS THEY SEEM LIKE THE LEAST PROBABLE ONES TO BECOME TOWN BY PLAY OVER TIME.

Movie I dunno I don’t watch movies. Critical Role is my favorite long running stream though.
Color: If I have to pick Purple but rainbow is more my bag.
Ice Cream: Vanilla I know how bland.

Role I’d like to play/play better: Traitor

Strength as town: Unpredictability
Weakness as town: Unpredictability/stubbornness
Strength as scum: Manipulation
Weakness as scum: cockiness/boredom

Players I would like in elo:
Town me: Dunn and you. I lot of people are hard to read for me but I think an elo with you and Dunn would be pretty quick.
Scum me: Hard to decide. Generally I don’t play scum for a final three in elo and I feel if you’re picking players over the road map/narrative it’s not good scumming.

It is possible this is either a traitor soft or fishing for the traitor.

<-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Code Red

That is interesting, but I don't think limming dunn is worth it atm
would scum have fakeclaims, possibly, but I'm mostly just confused why Dunn's immediate thought was to claim flavor out of the gate

I had to rub my flavor in Towelie's face.

It is also possible that code red is actually a mountain dew flavor that the traitor received as their actual role pm. It kinda makes sense if you think about it. code red, like being a codename for a secret mafia infiltrating as the traitor. This could actually explain why Dunn claimed the way he did, but would point to a mainscum team of MathBlade and Towelie and I don't think that is likely.

Maybe if Dunn felt like he had done enough to crumb traitor by claiming Code Red in red text, he felt he could start laying false associatives, and rubbing his claim in towelie's face is just bait. This seems more likely, assuming Dunn is traitor, which again, is quack shit, buyers beware.

Pointing this out because I expect to die early, possibly tonight.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also me but Naptime

noooooo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My lim pool is, by order of preference:

Highly preferred: Critter
Would eliminate happily: M&M
Still happy with these, but they feel like compromise given the confidence I have in scum!Critter: EMMI/StrangeMatter

deadline compromise: MUSH, S_S, Gamma, VFT

pedit: @bell regarding VFT wagon, this is fair, but I think scum are more likely to sheep the IC when the IC is pushing town than scum. I think if M&M was town we would have seen some more traction. Not to mention they've felt a bit "do-nothing" and still haven't explained how the game was "solved" back when they announced their read on Dunn and said they were going to chill now because they have it solved.

I just wanna say that like...

this is concerning to me as a post. Things don't feel good with this post. All the "Kyouko is 100% town" read stuff I had last time I played with them in Isekai is not here at all. And Critter, MM, EMMI and StrangeMatter really doesn't feel like a kill list that flips more than 1 scum ever, if it does flip a scum.

And then being willing to compromise on GAMMA OR MUSH at deadline? VFT last, only because I said it?

God I mean...

I REALLY hate this post.

I mean... I make it in just about every game that approaches deadline on D1.

Each tier is unordered, so Gamma, MUSH, VFT, and S_S are all equally preferable to me, that is to say

not preferable at all, but not off the table

. VFT is there because I'm not TRing her, not because you said it. If I was on board with the "do whatever the IC wants today and absolve myself of the blame" train, I would have joined the VFT wagon already. We're still several days out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Once again, this feels like a list that was procedurally generated with end goals in mind as opposed to being put together from reads.

i know that you're mostly objecting to the reads not matching your own but i think if you iso kyo it's pretty in line with the trajectory she's had

-b

Cognitive consistency doesn't mean the reads were developed naturally.

I personally find it hard to believe that S_S is bellow EMMI and Stranger... and Critter.

There's a lot there I find hard to swallow.

I think you read the list of reads I posted as though they were town at top, scum at bottom maybe? I specified those were sorted by degrees of confidence, and that each hyphen separates my degree of confidence in the read. Hence why scum!Critter was at the top of that list. I thought you were confused by my pool of eliminations including VFT, but I think you also missed the format of that readslist.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also whoever said that shit about traction on me is like probly a baddie

was it towelie

i cant remember

Would you believe me and yeet yourself if I said it was your other head? Neither of you are reading anyways and you know I have no motivation to lie

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I won't lie and say having a townblock is inherently a bad thing, there are flaws to (way too many times scum has been a part of them in the past) that too, but is a little hmm moment that all three of Critter, VFT, and Wisdom have town reads on each other like that. I've seen scum do some...wild plays where they townread each other (It's happened off site) but I really doubt that all three are actually scum.

I feel like your only motivation here is to shade us and break town cohesion
If you have specific reasons for any of us not being town, then say so
What youre doing is just scummy

Oh yes, let me make up something that’s happened before and call it scum motivation of eliminating the town block. Like this just feels like the response of “You aren’t allowed to question if scum is in the block or not”, which

when I have done that as town

, scum has been in or tried to get into it. I think right now you could be scum that’s just pointing out something I know people have said that is scummy to reaffirm to the others that you are town, in the town block.

Perspective slip?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And Critter, MM, EMMI and StrangeMatter really doesn't feel like a kill list that flips more than 1 scum ever, if it does flip a scum.

Maybe not, but it seems extremely unsurprising from ssbm at this juncture. Emmi and StrangeMatter are basically free lurker slots that anyone could put into their PoE, Critter and ssbm had their whole thing, and MM is two very polarizing players who have done some polarizing things.

I'm the only one who's saying that the cop and possibly the parity cop claims are theatre - implying M&M is in my scumreads because they have been polarizing is reductive and ignores the original point.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also, if you think it was theater, why is Gamma not in your bottom pool?

read my posts my guy, Gamma can only be scum if and only if Critter and M&M

both

flip scum, otherwise, like Wisdom pointed out, why would Gamma CC scum!M&M's claim? I will not be voting Gamma before at least M&M flips red, preferably not until after both M&M and Critter flip red.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

5 days, 4 hours, 32 minutes

Yet people are acting like we're with 24-48 hours here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

within*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So can those who are not voting VFT actually come vote Emmi with me ao theres actually an alternative

Just saying VFT wont flip town is not helping

Assuming you won't go Critter toDay - what about

VOTE: Milk & Mocha

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So can those who are not voting VFT actually come vote Emmi with me ao theres actually an alternative

Just saying VFT wont flip town is not helping

Assuming you won't go Critter toDay - what about

VOTE: Milk & Mocha

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I feel agreement with Gamma regarding EMMI and SM being low-info flips. I dont think we get anything out of either flip even if one is scum. Feels like we are not in a good spot tomorrow if we flip one of them and they are town. Basically back to square 1.

Ninjad by the last post, this was in response to one prior

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm happy if we get one of scum!SM or scum!EMMI. I just dont think it's all that likely that either are scum, and there is no upside to them flipping town I dont think. Whereas if we eliminate someone like M&M and we're wrong and M&M flips town, we get something out of it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What do we get?

Context on what the stances taken around Gamma and M&M's claims mean.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

do you have suspects?

So far, some minor pings. I stopped reading around page 30 before things came up so I will wrap up later tonight.
And then I will finally be caught up.

Where’s this go?

I'm waiting for EMMI catchup and reviewing some SM meta in the meantime

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was initially thinking SM is caught up but underwhelming whereas EMMI isn't caught up yet but actually I feel like I'm remembering SM's posts as worse than they are?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Was checking if SM was elitelling and saw that NEP III is over already and can be discussed so actually can bring up that they seemed to have issues getting involved in that game as well and likely the lack of , idk, availability? This game is probably NAI.

So sure I'll
VOTE: EMMI

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm here for the pagetop

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like they scum read EMMI and SM and find MM's trolling weird and not town, and keep their vote on MM the entire day until they're pushed.

Is that a true or false statement, Wisdom? Answer me that, at least.

Your reads are very similar to mine but you disappoint me with the mm read

So then why did they keep their vote on MM the whole day and do nothing to pressure EMMI or Strange (OR EVEN S_S) who they expresseed stronger scum reads on each time.

Their reads don't make sense with their play. Their reads are on a subset of lurking players who they can hedge on because it's REAL EASY to take those stances on players who show very little. Their stated reasons for scum reading them boil down to each time "not enough engagement, bad engagement" but then they never follow up.

Because MM is a juicier slot than two lurker slots?
I dont know
Why are you saying that as if its scum indicative

Because it is. If MM is town, calling the lurkers scummy and then pushing MM first is a scum move.

If the lurkers are town, they are saving those miseliminations for later because they're easier and removing Pooky now, who is notoriously hard to kill.

If the lurkers are scum, they're leaving a scumread on a lurking slot and pushing a townie over them, despite a stronger stated scumread.

Neither of these are town motivations.

The only reason to push Pooky over any of those slots for THAT LONG is if you felt that Pooky/Noraa was scummier and needed more pressure but they have the LURKERS as scummier and wouldn't putting pressure on the lurker slots to create content or die in that scenario with their reads make more sense as a town perspecitve?

Their internal logic DOESN'T MAKE SENSE to me.

I tried to see what you were seeing in the original quick case you posted on VFT after you took a couple days to reread, but was busy at work and didnt understand what you meant by their stance on MM holistically, and didnt get the manufactured feel from.their readslist. I still dont get the manufactured feel but maybe if the readslist was similar to Wisdoms at the time then it was similar to my own and that's why it didnt ping me? Anyways, these posts make a bit more sense and I'll be reconsidering on a reread now with more context as to what I'm looking for

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I guess first off @LLD, in 2032 you said VFT kept their vote on MM until they were pushed. It wasnt clear to me if "they" who were being pushed is MM or VFT. Which was it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw StrangeMatter where's your head at? I remember noticing you hadn't voted since like your first post pretty much and Gamma seems like a vanity vote even if it's there still in seriousness.

So, who do you suspect (and why)?
If it's not Gamma, why haven't you switched votes yet?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: S_S

VFT seems wrong. Just read their recent posts, now they're actually playing the game they seem townie. Get someone else.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So what do you think this indicates for Critter then? I did assume you were TRing him because of this post, because if that's what I thought was happening, I would TR him for it:

Huh, that's interesting. To me it seems clearly like something that can happen to town or scum. My main point with the post was just that hiding behind the alt was ineffective and it was responsible for some of his problems this game.

Oh you found it for me thanks
VOTE: Critter

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So what do you think this indicates for Critter then? I did assume you were TRing him because of this post, because if that's what I thought was happening, I would TR him for it:

Huh, that's interesting. To me it seems clearly like something that can happen to town or scum. My main point with the post was just that hiding behind the alt was ineffective and it was responsible for some of his problems this game.

Time to figure out who Smart hid behind because it’s doubtful he picked LLD

The timing on these two is funny

He clearly Targeted Wisdom stop being dumb.

How do you figure this considering S_S crumbed he was hiding behind the alt (fairly certain only Critter and EMMI are alts here), used the words "town or scum", indicating further that post was a crumb for his hider target because it doubles as an invest that would reveal if the target was town or scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh wow I'm real glad everyone agrees Wisdom is the play here. Was already inclined from the VFT flip but the N1 hider death cemented it.

I won't vote for the same reason Critter unvoted, but I'll call intent (if need be).

Not much to say today, I think.

Okay what is going on? Does nobody else see that S_S crumbed he was going to hide behind Critter???

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Towelie might be scum with Critter tbh

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Theres some willful ignorance of S_S's most obvious crumb here. I refuse to believe Towelie, specifically notscience, saw Dunnstral's post quoting S_S crumbing Critter as his target, and thought that was not the hider crumb.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now I'm going to check what Towelie says is a crumb and scrape S_S for crumbs myself, but it seems apparent that S_S visited Critter and theres no way you're all scum who are not seeing this

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Home now can actually post stuff

I am good copping notty to knock the snark off Critter, we got scum to kill

I don't really get Wisdom's reads this game. I have a lot of respect for him, and I basically sheeped him to victory in 8-ball, but they don't really feel satisfying.

That said, after 8-ball, he's firmly in my "never exe D1" box.

I think you can do a reads wall/list and keep the nuance. Please.

Okay, I guess...
ssbm_Kyouko
Critter, MUSHSHAGANA
Everyone else
Wisdom

If that isn't satisfying, well, I told you so.

I would love it. Even if it’s just me. Because more sorts.

All right, here goes:

Gamma Emerald
Towelie
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha
Venus Fly Trap
Dunnstral
Critter
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko

The existence of these posts just heavily, heavily point to wisdom as the hidee (especially the last one, a scum read he specifically didn't want elimmed that day. hmmmmmmm)

-b

yeah there is nothing here that indicates S_S was crumbing. From a reads standpoint, this conclusion makes sense. If S_S iso was otherwise devoid of crumbs, I could see where you're coming from. I'm not sure if I'd be down to vote Wisdom, probably not, but this isn't the case. S_S made at least the one obvious crumb saying he was hiding behind the alt. That is either EMMI or Critter. From context it seems like it's Critter.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK.

We can do different things tomorrow

I can get behind this.

It's quite unfortunate that two people I respect are disagreeing so heavily, but I'm going to have to favor the one who's probably going to be dead tomorrow.

Also, I think I agree with the reads here-- I can follow the town reasoning for SM, but Emmi not so much. But of course it's entirely possible LLD sees something I don't.

This could also potentially point to hiding behind Dunnstral: "I can get behind this", but the problem with this as a crumb is he goes on to say "I'm going to have to favor the one who's probably going to be dead tomorrow", indicating he's favoring LLD, who doesnt make sense as a target. I feel that if this post were meant as a crumb, it would have been worded more carefully so it could not be misinterpreted. There's even potential here that there's some kind of EMMI crumb toward the end if this post. This post is too unclear to be a crumb, so I'm going to assume it was not one, and "getting behind" something is not a crumb on the same level as "hiding behind" something as a Hider crumb.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It is because of that.

Basically I just saw him get steamrolled despite having near perfect reads in an execution that almost singlehandedly lost town the game. So I think he deserves at least one day of slack just for the content he'll produce if town, no matter how scummy he looks.

Also let's not forget the reasoning S_S gave to keep Wisdom alive. He wasnt being vague or cryptic in the way you would be about a crumb that would make sense after his flip. He explained why he didnt want Wisdom. He was

not

keeping Wisdom alive to Hide behind.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

2051 wasn't a crumb, he was agreeing with me that we should follow LLD (my post was a reply to LLD). To back this up he did end up voting for VFT shortly after. This was around the time when multiple people were trying to change who the wagon was on.

Critter claimed doc, what do you think of that?

I think it's irrelevant (which is why I didn't comment on it) and he's scum whether or not he's a doctor. I don't think 2051 is a crumb - I saw that it could be interpreted as one and explained why it's not likely to be one. It was the only other post besides 1613 that could be seen as possibly a crumb.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK.

We can do different things tomorrow

I can get behind this.

It's quite unfortunate that two people I respect are disagreeing so heavily, but I'm going to have to favor the one who's probably going to be dead tomorrow.

Also, I think I agree with the reads here-- I can follow the town reasoning for SM, but Emmi not so much. But of course it's entirely possible LLD sees something I don't.

This is the crumb in my opinion. It's closer to the end of the day and the context refers to the next day.

The one about hiding behind the alt does not look as likely because for one it's way earlier in the day and then he's quoting Kyouko and talking about Critter so it's not that clear.

VOTE: Dunn

It's definitely clear, Critter

is

the alt that he is talking about. Also, if you read S_S's posting around that time of the day, that is around the time his tone shifts with Critter. I don't think he comes out and says Critter is a scumread, but he starts getting a little aggro with Critter and there's clearly some tension there that he is keeping under wraps - that could have even been the read he was saying he was hiding so it wouldn't affect anyone's interactions.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

He could not have more obviously stated "I'm hiding behind Critter tonight"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But yeah with the doc claim and no cc I feel like Critter's pretty conftown, so thats another point against that crumb being the one

There's no guarantee a doctor exists in the setup. There are other ways kills can be prevented.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And yeah Kyouko it amazes me you still insist when it's clear the Dunn crumb is the true crumb

But maybe you havent read fully given you were answering 2305, lets see

Still reading but I found 2051 last night and explained why it's not a crumb. S_S snips quotes on the reg. There is too much in 2051 that could point at a different player for it to have been a Dunnstral crumb. I'm sure that if S_S was crumbing in 2051 he would have been careful with the verbiage so it would have been clear who he was targeting. He says he is favoring the one that will be dead tomorrow (LLD) - why would he put that in the post if he was trying to convey he was Hiding behind Dunn? Why are there no other uses of the word hide/hiding in his ISO when he uses "behind" close to other players more than once?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And he WOULD want to clear wisdom with that very post you quoted, SSBM? He literally said he trusts wisdoms reads as town, but clearly suspects him throughout most of the day. So by checking him, you either clear him to trust his reads or guilty him

I think he would have crumbed if Wisdom was his target.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah it’s 100% not critter

I do think it’s in (Dunn, Wisdom) 100% of the time here.

I still think last scum is that bad bad bear.

I've been pushing bears all game pretty much. You should vote for Wisdom if you believe this. Or we can ignore the hider stuff and just get bears today, I'd do that.

It's you or critter today and if either of you flip town it's the other tomorrow, barring any other believable crumbs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I still kinda think Dunn -> Kyo the more Kyo defends Dunn like that. It’s terrible

Like the way Towelie defends you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hey hey I think this will convince you for certain

Subject: Undertale Mafia (Endgame):

It's not a clear crumb. It doesn't mean it's not a starting point. But it's not like "

I could get behind SS

" or "I'll be looking into SS overnight" level clear.

okay maybe. UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

there

are

is also

2

1 player

s

here that

were

was in Undertale who might remember,

Nancy Drew and

Dunnstral were both in hydras in that game it seems

Sorry Noraa, I did it again

[ssbm_Kyouko]

alright I've read now.
VOTE: Dunnstral

If this is red I'll leave Critter alone. If not, he needs to die toMorrow.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also let it be known that if Dunn is a traitor I'm pretty much conf for nabbing that shit in 1687

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also had a brief thought that S_S may have just thought Dunn makes a good investigation after I luckily caught Dunn on N1 in Isekai (I was setting up to Watch him for a scum killing him on a later night, but my role stipulated I could only Watch players that I had previously Tracked). Maybe S_S drew a similarity to Isekai!Dunn and decided Dunn would make a good target.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I still don't think we should claim PR/Not PR toDay. Eliminate Dunn first, if Gamma is alive tomorrow, wait until Gamma says whether or not he got a result (but not what the result is or who it is on), then we massclaim PR/Not PR. Assuming Gamma was blocked by scum, scum will know whether he has a result or not anyways. No need to reveal to scum who the PRs are before we're even certain that Dunnstral is scum. Critter can still be scum here if Dunn is town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Should add to 2410 it would be odd for a town roleblocker to have blocked Gamma last night, so it can be assumed if Gamma is town he was blocked by scum, and that scum would be able to block Gamma again toNight if desired.

So that should reinforce we should not be claiming anything toDay.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That’s hogwash.

Even if we don’t get the roleblocker today they have to do shenanigans in order to get to Gamma and leave me alive another day.
With Dunn being very likely scum this means roleblocker won’t be useful unless multitasking.

So in the rare case gamma doesn’t get his check off we learn a lot

And PR or not informs what is likely the last checj.

You don’t have to say if you’re a PR that activates but PR/not PR should be done

Give me a hypothetical where Gamma has a better check than between you and (someone else)? We already have a claim from you so using you as a starting point makes sense

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I get you think that but I mean…

If I go with you town she actively sabotaged the counter wagon pretty hard
Today she’s trying to save Dunn

Then arguing and setting up miselims

What exactly is she town for?

One of you and Dunnstral

is

scum mechanically unless we as a group are too stupid to identify S_S's crumbs. Saying "If Dunnstral is green, Critter dies tomorrow" is

not

setting up mislims because with as many living town as we have looking for S_S's crumbs, it would be such a low chance that we all missed some unknown third crumb, that it is not worth considering that happened. Mechanically, there is at least 1 scum amongst you and Dunnstral, because of the S_S flip and his crumbs. If Dunnstral is green, you are red, end of story.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm also no longer interested in saving Dunn after seeing Wisdom's metadive evidence from Undertale Mafia

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dunn in shambles choo choo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:
Just want to give EMMI a chance to post a result if it has one, still on Dunn in spirit and will revote after EMMI has returned

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nyeh!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Still big chillin til EMMI arrives. As towelie has already pointed out, and should already have been obvious, but I'm still voting for Dunn today, unless someone else finds a more compelling crumb of S_S's. Even then I think Dunn's drop-off since he momentum swung his way is reminiscent of when he was soft guiltied in Isekai.

Sorry to drag it out but I'd like everyone to post at least once in case there is a relevant result.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

alright re:dunnstral, nice, also really weird that suddenly SM has something to say now that EMMI has a replacement

[ssbm_Kyouko]

sorry btw, I've been slacking on mafia

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also they got the Gingerbread Snap'd flavor in at my local walmart and it is very good. Like Mountain Dew meets ginger ale, but very strong ginger. And a delicious aftertaste

[ssbm_Kyouko]

and that is not a gunsmith soft^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've kinda forgotten my reads but I think I thought Gamma was town, assuming my ISO agrees I'll claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I did it because it guarantees scum will see it and the potential motivation, if he is town, is to draw the NK off of LLD, or potentially if he really has a role, to be able to play aggressively and WIFOM scum into not shooting him because he's trying to draw a kill. However, if he is scum and makes it deep, this guarantees that someone who lives longer than me will poke at the soft later and not let it go unnoticed.

uh am i reading this right? you outed him in order to make sure scum sees it to draw the nk off of lld onto him? why wasn't gamma's claim sufficient for that exactly? why do u think scum would kill unknown-pr-critter over macho-ic?
this doesn't make sense to me

Well you're only reading my post as though Critter is town which you cant know from a town POV. I wasn't thinking about Gamma's claim, but Gamma's role as claimed is on the weaker side. I don't think it's sufficient to draw the kill. An unknown PR could have the capability to investigate or interfere with the scum. It may make more sense to kill an unknown PR over LLD, especially if LLD is not leading wagons on scum. The Macho was announced by the mod so scum knows it's not even like a gambit for a BP IC or something. Scum can take the LLD kill whenever they want.

Anyways, you dont seem to be considering the whole post - part of the reason to point out the softs is in case Critter is scum, but you haven't considered that. If VFT ever flips scum, I think this is a perspective slip that spews town!Critter

Kyouko, EMMI, StrangeMatter
Let’s narrow it down to 3 slots

Can folks tell me why we don’t eliminate these slots? I don’t see any reason not to go with any of these three, and I don’t disagree with Gamma on keeping the day short.

Weird that you attribute a short day to Gamma when Critter is the broken record repeating the day is already long enough and should be ended.

Alright I was reading my ISO for instances of Gamma and saw these to look back at, but also I agree with past me that Gamma is town here so claim coming next post so it's on its own in a post without a couple of long quotes someone might skim over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am a VT and my flavor is livewire. I support massclaiming VT/PR in Gamma's order as he is the investigative, but I don't think PRs should say

what

they are because Gamma's claimed role doesn't need that info to know if scum is lying about being a PR or a vanilla

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm assuming Gamma targeted M&M and one of his first 3 (Myself/Jora/SM), now that we've all claimed VT, M&M please claim. Gamma, if someone is lying let us know, otherwise I think not outing who you targeted is probably ideal but you do you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh, jada, not jora

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

7 town-1 scum means 5 kills until ELO. town gets 3 of those assuming Mush is town. If mush is scum, I dont think she is a vig. I dont think scum has a good way to stop town from controlling 3 kills.

So, which 3 players do we want dead? Let's all put out 3 names, decide on an elim and a vig shot, and go to D4.

Personally I think if it's M&M they dont ever win in ELO so I would prefer we shoot and eliminate in the VTs. Jada and SM being the elim today and the vig tonight, and Towelie being the elim tomorrow. Probably others will prefer to elim me tomorrow and that's fine, if towelie is town he probably gets NKed at some point anyways.

VOTE: Jada

[ssbm_Kyouko]

3 players

If mm & sm dont end it, id want you next

You're actually high if you want me before Jada but w/e

Goldfish will forget about EMMI I guess

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait a minute is one of the flipped scum already a goon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh nm, we dont kill VTs. I didnt realize VFT was a goon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So, idk, we lim M&M, mush shoots me, gamma compares mush to towelie. Presumably Gamma or Mush dies.

If Gamma dies, we have another vig shot potentially. If Mush dies we have results on Towelie, can lim him if he is PR, or lim Wisdom if Towelie is not PR.

Pedit: Yeah we lim MM VOTE: MM

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also Gamma ninja'ing my strat reinforces he's looking at this from town POV so that's good.

And if that strat does not end it, do not treat anyone as conf in ELO, especially including Gamma/Mush

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Doesnt really matter if it's likely I true claimed, it would be better to shoot me and investigate potential deepwolves that have more towncred and could win easier

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well no, but I wont be alive if she's confirmed vig

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Strategizing because we're so far ahead it's essentially unwinnable for scum if we play it right mechanically

[ssbm_Kyouko]

2716 is responding to 2713

[ssbm_Kyouko]

M&M you're acting like we have a conftown rolecop result that says you're a Neighborizer when it is very easy to see that you could be a JOAT here, possibly you're a compulsive JOAT even and you chose to neighborize last night to save something stronger for tonight

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I won’t shoot either Jada or SM.

If bears are the elimination, the shot is in Wisdom, ssbm, Towelie.

Bears are an obvious elimination choice, I would rather shoot there and eliminate elsewhere. That’s just me.

Gamma is pretty close to confirmed due to the role block on that slot N1. Towelie is the deepest of deep wolves if scum. I would prefer Wisdom over all the other options presented, but I wouldn’t hate ssbm going down. Towelie absolutely only if there’s no other consensus. I refuse to shoot Jada or StrangeMatter, period. You don’t get confirmed vanilla deaths out of me in this setup at this gamestate, absolutely not.

yeah that was my b I forgot VFT flipped goon, I dont advocate confirmed vanilla shots

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i don't really have a solve that i don't have at least some kind of reservation against atm.

probably next step is to start re-isoing or some meta dives, not that that's my strong suit but i'm not sure where else to go other than just start flipping people

i don't really vibe w/ the sentiment that this is any kind of mechanical win yet though, even if we're ahead. only takes one bad assumption to lose it

-b

I also get this but like, it's not like were going to blindly eliminate anyone that isn't a confirmed VT in ELO, assuming following that strat takes us that far

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I read a page or two
Then I skimmed
Then I skipped

Still voting MM, Mush can shoot wis if she wants but I think shooting at me is better assuming MM doesnt end it.

I'll repeat that in this scenario, we are guaranteed for one of 2 situations: Gamma survives and has another result, or Mush survives and is able to shoot again the following night.

Just elim M&M.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm clearly sandbagging here because again I don't feel particularly good about the gamestate. Usually I can identify town here by examining who's paranoid that we've misconstrued the gamestate, but like outside of mush i'm not seeing that from really anyone.

@SM - I don't feel like I have any idea what you think about anything. Any reads you're confident in?
@ssbm - why is a you shot better than a Wisdom shot FYPOV (assuming M&M flips town at that point)?

-b

I think I am more useful to the town dead, because I am an easier mislim. Take away what is easy, make scum work harder, maybe they are more likely to slip up or overplay their hand.

i think pooky just knows game is over so he wants this little ego win

also i think this is what is happening which is why I'd like to just eliminate M&M and move ln if we're wrong