Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

Magua · Post Post #861 (isolation #0) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:05 am

Hai guyz.

I've read zero of this thread aside from this page, so I'm just curious: why is it Macrophage or DDD?

Magua · Post Post #868 (isolation #1) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:53 pm

In post 862, Fishythefish wrote:
Macro replaced a slot widely regarded as scummy, including by me. At L-1 (pretty sure), he claimed "non-VT", and when pressured further claimed VT - opinions vary on whether this sequence is scummy, townish or null. He wasn't lynched. In my opinion, he has been consistently townish, but many disagree. I also am coming to the conclusion that there just hasn't been a concerted push anywhere else today that I can see as coming from scum, and I really doubt the scumteam would just let Macro die this easily.

So, you think Macro is town.

Fishythefish wrote:DDD is a decent lynch. I'm not sure that anyone thinks he's hugely scummy - Rhinox comes closest, but hasn't said much about anything of late, and I suspect doesn't have any confidence in anything right now. On the other hand, there's no reason I can see to think he's town. Personally, I think he's mildly scummy and I'm very much enthused by the way his wagon is packed with townie goodness.

His wagon is: Rhinox, you, and Sleepless Assassin

Why do you think Rhinox or SA are town?

In post 864, Voidedmafia wrote:Yeah, he was at L-1.

There's also some rather suspicious read-changes on me (Macro had me as scum when he came in, switched me to town when he was at L-1 and claimed, then put me back at scummy once D2 started, all of this effectively following a bell curve of when he was under suspicion), along with DDD pushing the amished tell.

Why is this scummy for you? What does Macrophage-scum get off of buddying Voidedmafia-town?

And so, hah, I just see that my replaced slot had the hammer vote on either Macrophage or DDD earlier. Yet no one seems to have been pushing for action, or for Alice to remove her lone single vote off of Sleepless Assassin. That's....well, that's just downright bizarre.

Magua · Post Post #869 (isolation #2) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:04 pm

In post 866, Macrophage wrote:Yes! Yesssssss!

Kortul, I love you.

VOTE: DCL

Why do you like this so much?

I guess, specifically, given that Kortul just quoted DCL's post and said, "Why'd you do this?", why do you love Kortul instead of just quoting DCL's post and saying, "This is scummy"?

Do you think DDD should still claim?

Magua · Post Post #889 (isolation #3) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:13 pm

So I've read through D1 so far.

I think Macrophage is town, for pretty much, as far as I can tell, the exact same reasons that voidedmafia thinks he's scum.

My biggest scumread? Fishythefish. God, every time I see that avatar I'm now saying to myself, "Here comes another post where he says that he can go either way, or that he's not sure." Way too much equivocating, vacillating, way too little in terms of actual reads or trying to do shit. God, every single post. Just comparing his posts here to the ones in Last Will III shows just this huge change -- in LW III he makes reads, takes positions, doesn't throw his vote around every which way, actually pushes on people, etc.

UNVOTE: Sleepless Assassin
VOTE: Fishythefish

Think Rhinox is probably town. Think DCL is probably town, but this is shakier than Rhino.

Think hiplop and DDD are both wastes of space, but unsure if they're town wastes of space or scum pretending to be wastes of space.

Magua · Post Post #894 (isolation #4) » Tue May 01, 2012 3:36 am

In post 890, Fishythefish wrote:Rereading my play, the above looks like a pretty big exaggeration to me. But I suppose the core's not totally wrong - I agree I've changed my mind a fair amount this game, and that I've not had any really firm scumreads I've been happy to push for a long period of time. Why are either of those things scumtells?

Because they're not how you play as town (see: Last Will III). You're not a noncommittal town player, and here you are. See also: Trader Mafia, where scum-you throws your vote around willy-nilly and in general tried to spread mud everywhere. That's what I'm seeing here.

In post 892, Macrophage wrote:@Magua: I do get paranoid about Fishy, but I don't agree that being unsure is a scumtell and a lot of his posts look like town. Also, why do you think DCL is town?

Being unsure isn't a scumtell. Being unsure over 40 pages and two Days for fishy is a scumtell.

DCL read is two parts:
First, the general jump on funkybike didn't seem to have any anti-pressure that you'd expect if it was on scum. It was a lot of people being, "Welp, seems fine to me," makes me think that slot is town. DCL's subsequent replacement in seems very genuine. I'm a sucker for someone who puts in work, which DCL has put it in spades, but I find myself agreeing with most of his reads, as well.

Magua · Post Post #897 (isolation #5) » Tue May 01, 2012 4:28 am

In post 896, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:I'd link you to the Scummies Winvitational if it hadn't been swallowed up by the site crash as why I disagree with your assesment of Ftf.

That's not exactly helpful to me, you understand. Nor do I see why you feel the need to defend Fishy at this point.

In post 895, 4nxi3ty wrote:
In post 889, Magua wrote:Think DCL is probably town, but this is shakier than Rhino.

Think hiplop and DDD are both wastes of space, but unsure if they're town wastes of space or scum pretending to be wastes of space.

what have these two done or not done to convince you of this?

Which two? DCL and Rhino, or hiplop and DDD?

I'm assuming you mean hiplop and DDD, since I've already talked about DCL and Rhino seems to be

marked for death

a universal town read. hiplop's posts have been a string of one-liners with any thought that may be behind them very well hidden. He's voted most of the game, doesn't hold his vote long, and doesn't hold strong stances beyond "Whoever I'm voting right now is scum." Yet, unlike Fishy, these don't automatically mean hiplop-scum for me.

DDD is similar, but with less posts. Has more reads, but a lot of his posts just ring false to me, particularly in regards to some newer player like Macrophage doing something newby-stupid and DDD going for cheap shots rather than understanding. A lot of unhelpful sarcasm. Yet I know from sad experience that DDD does that shit as town, so I'm more just aggravated than wanting to hammer him at this point.

But if I can't get any traction on fishy, I would far, far, far, far rather hammer DDD than DCL or Macrophage at this point.

Magua · Post Post #901 (isolation #6) » Tue May 01, 2012 5:59 am

4nxi3ty wrote:also if you don't mind me asking... you haven't really taken a stance on me, voided, kortul, or sa? I understand focussing on ddd and macro since they are the top wagon; but why focus more on fishy, hiplop, rhinox and dcl than the rest of us?

Because I have reads on them and I don't have reads on the others, including you.

Re: DCL: Fishy scumread, Rhinox townread, Macro townread, null on DDD

Debonair Danny DePietro wrote:Macrophage has admitted to being an alt with approx. 15 games under his main’s belt. If your town read if based on a Macro-noob read you need to recalibrate because that simply isn’t the case.

Link plz.

Magua · Post Post #908 (isolation #7) » Tue May 01, 2012 12:19 pm

In post 904, kortul wrote:
In post 901, Magua wrote:DCL: Fishy scumread, Rhinox townread, Macro townread, null on DDD
Hmm, did you finish the reread?

No, it's D1, as I said. I'm going to try to catch up tonight.

Also need to reread Macrophage. I had missed the 15+ alt game comment.

Fishythefish wrote:
As for my town meta - sometimes I get the bit between my teeth, sometimes I don't. LWIII was one of my better games from that point of view - I had some pretty firm reads which I was happy to push.
If you can be bothered, check out my meta.
I'm pretty sure that (when in a game and active - I've had a few games where I've had crap access that probably aren't relevant) I'm usually more consistent than this as town, and
always
more consistent than this as scum. The feeling of being lost in a game and not being able to settle on any strong scumreads isn't one I've learnt how to fake.

It's comments like the bolded that get me. Here I present two instances of your meta, and your response is an insinuation that I don't care to check instances of your meta.

Not a "Here's a game where I was crap as town," but "Meh, if you care, go look." That's what gets me about every single one of your posts. It's like actively trying to be as unhelpful as possible while still appearing to be helping.

Magua · Post Post #961 (isolation #8) » Mon May 07, 2012 3:46 am

rhinox is town.
Voidedmafia is obvtown.
kortul is probably town.
DCLXVI being the counterwagon to Macrophage makes him probably also town.
Similar logic can be applied to DDD (being a Macrophage counterwagon), though I'm less sure on this. Still not interested in lynching DDD today.

Leaves fishythefish, Sleepy Assassin, and hiplop, who I wish to lynch in approximately that order.

VOTE: Fishythefish x 2

Magua · Post Post #963 (isolation #9) » Mon May 07, 2012 4:18 am

Oh, man, I thought I had been given the vote by scum in order to watch the WIFOM and for scum to try to get me lynched.

Magua · Post Post #964 (isolation #10) » Mon May 07, 2012 4:18 am

Do you get any information about the will (who was on top, specifically)?

Magua · Post Post #972 (isolation #11) » Mon May 07, 2012 7:27 am

In post 968, kortul wrote:@
Magua
- have you completed the reread already? Are your thoughts today based on it, or just on the last events?

I started on D2 and then wandered off. I haven't read the end yet (in particular, I had missed that 4nxiety claimed mason -- I thought the mafia had Vanilla-copped him N1 and then shot him).

I don't agree that DCLXVI was the main counterwagon, it was the last counterwagon. For a long time it was DDD, after his claim the focus shifted (after post 928 and vote from fishy) to 4nx, who also claimed in advance, and only then DCL started rolling. If DDD or 4nx would be VT, chances are they would be lynched. Still, DCLXVI
was
L-1 counterwagon, just with fewer people thanks to a lastwill mechanics, so the main question is how likely that everyone there except Macro were town. I have to think more on this after ISOs.

Assuming three mafia, this doesn't work (FMPOV) because it means that either both other scum were bussing Macrophage (not very likely, given how long he teetered at L-1) or that the other scum are DCLXVI and someone on the Macrophage wagon (probably hiplop). I just don't find the idea probable -- if both mafia were going to be bussing their buddy, I don't see how the wagon would've teeter tottered at L-1 for so long.

I could see Macrophage-scum jumping onto a buddy knowing he's going to be lynched to give the buddy some cred, but I would expect that to be on a more active player, is what it is. Macrophage-scum jumping on buddy-scum is pointless if buddy scum is just going to be a possible lynch anyways.

Fishythefish wrote:@Magua: did you check out the meta I posted? I think it shows strongly that this is not how I play as scum, which seemed to be what your read is based on. Why do you think I'm scum (other than PoE)?

I did. I still think you're scum. Hence, my vote.

Given that your big townread flipped scum and you now think one of your scumreads is town, I'm curious who do *you* think is scum now?

Magua · Post Post #974 (isolation #12) » Mon May 07, 2012 8:38 am

In post 973, Voidedmafia wrote:Mag: Why am I obvtown (seemingly through my pushing of Macro), while DDD is town through being the counterwagon and hiplop isn't town at all?

Nothing to do with pushing Macrophage. I'm assuming that 4nxiety gave his vote to you because you're his mason partner.

Magua · Post Post #985 (isolation #13) » Tue May 08, 2012 5:05 am

In post 983, Fishythefish wrote:Your scumread on me was for "Way too much equivocating, vacillating, way too little in terms of actual reads or trying to do shit.". When I and someone else said that that wasn't a scumread, you said it was for me - you brought up LWIII as a town game where I didn't play like this, and Trader Mafia as a scum game where I did. I said that the Trader Mafia example is nothing like this, and that my other scum games aren't either. If you really think I'm scum because this flopping around matches my scum meta, that should be highly relevant, and responding simply that you read my meta is totally inadequate.

I find it rather adequate. I've discounted the list of people who I have reason to believe are town. I have left a very small list of people who I think can be scum. Of those, I find you are the most likely to be scum. This lasts until I find some reason to think that you're not scum (hasn't happened yet) or I find someone to be more likely scum than you (also hasn't happened yet).

As is, what you've posted is a defense of yourself to me and to DCL, but again without any indication of who you think is scum. And it's D3 with 4 flips.

Will reevaluate when you actually post scumreads.

@DDD:

When did you activate/choose to use your ability? Do you pick a specific person or what?

Magua · Post Post #986 (isolation #14) » Tue May 08, 2012 5:11 am

@Mod:

Kindly prod hiplop

Magua · Post Post #1002 (isolation #15) » Tue May 08, 2012 2:44 pm

@Fishy:

How is it that I am at the top of your "probably partners with Macrophage" list and yet you're still not voting me?

@hiplop:

How had Macrophage claimed scum?

Magua · Post Post #1003 (isolation #16) » Tue May 08, 2012 2:45 pm

In post 999, DCLXVI wrote:unvote:fishy

been thoroughly analyzing macro's reads, I don't think fishy is scum any more.

Elaborate pl0x.

Magua · Post Post #1005 (isolation #17) » Tue May 08, 2012 3:01 pm

Ignore you...how? Like, ignore your vote on Sleepless Assassin? Isn't that more appropriately phrased "Ignore Sleepless Assassin and do dumb things"?

Magua · Post Post #1008 (isolation #18) » Tue May 08, 2012 4:06 pm

In post 1006, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 1005, Magua wrote:Ignore you...how? Like, ignore your vote on Sleepless Assassin? Isn't that more appropriately phrased "Ignore Sleepless Assassin and do dumb things"?

Is there any actual point to this other than some sort of semantic quibble?

Because you may have meant something else?

Also, because it's goddamn weird to say something like, "People are ignoring me," instead of "People are ignoring the person I think is scum."

hiplop wrote:He claimed a power role, when he got called out for it being illogical he cowarded out and claimed vanilla. That's blatant testing the waters, and the huge amount of WIFOM he pushed made it obvious

You've never seen town claim something and then retract under pressure?

Magua · Thu May 10, 2012 11:57 am

Not hammering kortul. Not interested in a claim from kortul at the moment, either.

I don't think kortul is scum, but even if kortul is scum, he's bussing scum, which I'm ok with. Much more interested in finding the non-bussing scum in the very small group of (fishy, DDD, SA), and I don't think it's DDD. So.

Fishythefish wrote:Do you still think that "Way too much equivocating, vacillating, way too little in terms of actual reads or trying to do shit." is a good meta-scumtell for me?

Yes.

Fishythefish wrote:If so, you should be able to justify that by pointing to a game where, as scum, my play could be described as that. If not, why do you think I'm scum other than PoE?

TBH, I can't be fucked to go through your previous games because after reading Last Will III and Trader Mafia I just don't care anymore. Your posts have been so far today a defense of yourself, you saying that kortul is a very strong townread, and then upon being pointed out that one of his votes was timed differently, being all over his lynch. It's so very meh.

You say that SA has been reasonably scumhunting. What reasonable scumhunting has he been doing D3?

@kortul:

Kindly be voting.

Magua · Post Post #1038 (isolation #20) » Fri May 11, 2012 3:08 pm

In post 1033, Fishythefish wrote:OK, Magua doesn't give a fuck whether I'm scum.

1. I replied to his meta about Trader Mafia, which is totally wrong. Even if he can't be bothered to check out my other scum games (which he said he had), he should at least be able to say why he thinks that one is like here. He's got one point on me, which is that I've been changing my mind and having weak reads. This isn't a scumtell, and it absolutely isn't a scumtell for me.
2. On kortul. kortul is a "very strong townread"? Where? How on earth does Magua reach this conclusion? I had kortul as mildly unlikely to be a buddy, and one of the big reasons (his switch back to Macro) was based on something that was factually inaccurate.
3. The summary of my posts today. Seriously? Today, I've defended myself, sure. I've also posted analysis of every single player in the game. I don't think that analysis is at all bad. What more do you want from my posting?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Magua

This total garbage of a case on me, plus Alice's strong day 1 links to Macro, make me think Magua is scum.

I give quite a large number of fucks that you're scum. That's why, after all, I'm voting you.

You didn't say kortul was a townread -- that was me mixing up what you'd said about kortul and Macrophage and conflating the two because of your "kortul's not really done anything scummy" line in #1019.

What I want from you should be obvious: an actual stance. All of your "analysis" is either, "Well, X does seem kind of scummy, but they could just be bad town," or "Well, X does seem kind of townie, but they could just be smart scum." Pretty much literally, that is the entirety of your post #994.

End result of all of your analysis is to have no reads, get prodded by Rhinox by where your analysis was wrong, come out with #1019 which *still* reads as "Well, X could be <faction>, but could also be <other faction>", and then vote kortul because there's a wagon on kortul, now vote me.

Or, look at your response vs-a-vis SleeplessAssassin: You say in #1019, "SA's made a few decent cases on unfashionable targets. It feels like he's scumhunting - as scum, his choice of targets would be pretty odd. If it weren't for some fairly serious PoE, he'd be nowhere near a scumlist." I ask, "What scumhunting has SA done," and you're all like, "Well, none today."

It's all. So. Meh.

Magua · Post Post #1046 (isolation #21) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:22 am

In post 1044, hiplop wrote:VOTE: Magua

I don't think kortul is scum, and fishy doesnt seem to be dying (plus his latest posts have been pretty townie) Magua has been pretty snarky, which I think would come from scum here.

I'm going to give you approximately five seconds to remember how I played in Brightest Day, and then see how you re-evaluate this statement.

Magua · Post Post #1049 (isolation #22) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:32 am

Mr. Subliminal.

And you were scum. I wasn't. That being the key point.

Snarky I will happily cop to. Harshness? Show me anywhere where I've been harsh, or angry.

Magua · Post Post #1051 (isolation #23) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:38 am

Did you unvote Fishy because no one else was voting him? Because that's what your #1044 seems to be saying.

Magua · Post Post #1053 (isolation #24) » Sun May 13, 2012 6:02 am

If a wagon on someone isn't moving, do you think that's because the person is more likely to be town or scum?

Magua · Post Post #1055 (isolation #25) » Sun May 13, 2012 9:58 am

You misunderstand. I'm not saying "being equivocating" is a general scumtell. I don't, as a rule, believe in general scumtells. I'm saying it's a scumtell for *you*.

The guidelines I'm using to judge you, and, say, hiplop, are so radically different it beggars the imagination. hiplop's "Fishy wagon isn't moving, time to vote someone else" is so entirely completely illogical that were you, or Rhinox, or DDD to make that statement I'd be all over them like bacon on more bacon. But it's hiplop, so I'm all meh.

As to this conversation, I know you're scum, you know you're scum, you're not going to convince me otherwise, so let's move on to a conversation that might be productive: Who, besides myself, do you think is scum? Not "has a chance of being scum" or weasel words like that, but actually believe is scum?

Magua · Post Post #1059 (isolation #26) » Sun May 13, 2012 1:20 pm

In post 1058, DCLXVI wrote:
In post 1036, Voidedmafia wrote:DCL, please explain where at all I've indicated I would definitively lynch Kortul. I've stated that, if it comes down to it at the deadline, I'd lynch him over Fishy, but that does not and should not mean that I want him dead now.

In post 1027, Voidedmafia wrote:PoE to me dictates that Kortul or SA, or Mag would be where I'd place my votes today, though they're not all bad choices.

Why is kortul your #1 scumread over Fishy, Sleepless Assassin, or myself (those who are not you and were not on the Macrophage wagon)?

Magua · Post Post #1061 (isolation #27) » Sun May 13, 2012 2:33 pm

Thank you for your post. It was both useful and informative.

Magua · Post Post #1067 (isolation #28) » Sun May 13, 2012 4:33 pm

In post 1065, Rhinox wrote:fuck you too I was prodded that was my acknowledgement. Piss off.

Sincerely hope that this was a drunkpost.

@DCL:

I didn't ask why you found him scummy. I asked why you found him scummier than myself, Fishy, or Sleepless.

I will elucidate: Assuming there are 3 mafia, and, FYPOV, knowing that you are not one of the three, which do you feel is more likely:
a. Both of the other mafia were bussing Macrophage, or
b. 0-1 other mafia were bussing Macrophage and 1-2 mafia were not

?

Magua · Post Post #1069 (isolation #29) » Sun May 13, 2012 5:20 pm

Hooray!

So, then, FYPOV, there is at least one scum in (myself, Fishy, Sleepless Assassin).

Given those stunningly good odds, why are you concentrating on kortul and not on the, as it were, low hanging fruit?

Magua · Post Post #1072 (isolation #30) » Mon May 14, 2012 3:21 am

In post 1070, Fishythefish wrote:@Magua: I disagree with your "low hanging fruit" (though I am voting for one of them). While there is a smallish scumpool of people off the Macro wagon, lots of the ones on it are very likely town, so if you think it likely that someone bussed that person is very likely to be kortul. In this position, 1/3 just isn't good odds.

I don't actually think that Macrophage was bussed at all.

Or to put it another way, there's a 100% chance in my mind, and as far as I can tell, everyone else's, that (Magua, Fishy, Sleepless, DCL) contains at least 1 scum.

There is a non-insignificant chance (for me, personally, > 66%) that it contains 2 scum. If this is the case, kortul is, of course, town.

So, FMPOV, for someone to vote kortul over (Magua, Fishy, Sleepless, DCL) should require like some next-level leap in confidence that kortul is actually scum, because lynching someone from the pool, myself included, who is town, still helps in reducing the size of the pool that I feel that both of the scum will be found in. Lynching kortul, if he's town, does nothing.

Magua · Post Post #1076 (isolation #31) » Mon May 14, 2012 6:25 am

In post 1074, Rhinox wrote:So snark aside, what bothers me about this post is that you had all day D2 to berate me for not posting content. Your choice to snipe at me now seems to coincide with you getting some attention and votes, and the irony of it all is that I'm actually providing content today. I'm having a hard time not reading this as "annoyed scum".

My choice to snipe at you now has everything to do with you posting something while I'm paying attention, and then responding to it. I despise "will post later" posts rather universally.

But let's explore this. You think that I'm scum getting some attention and some votes, and that my response is to derail the only other wagon of note (kortul), and to piss you off in the bargain?

Rhinox wrote:I'm trying to work out your math gymnastics in [post]1072[/post]. I'm not working under any assumption other than that there are 2 scum in {kortul, SA, fishy, magua}. DCL is not even in my assumption. And I'm going to lynch who I think is scum, not who I think will provide the most information if they're town.

Hooray, 2 of our scumreads are the same.

Magua · Post Post #1082 (isolation #32) » Mon May 14, 2012 8:50 am

In post 1078, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Magua, you want to see how I'm being ignored? Look right here. I think I've got something interesting and nobody else is interested in the slightest.

To be fair, I am monopolizing the spotlight at the moment.

Also to be fair to DCL, I don't see your point -- I would want a claim from a lynch even if I thought they were scum, because I could be wrong.

Magua · Post Post #1093 (isolation #33) » Tue May 15, 2012 8:46 am

In post 1088, Fishythefish wrote:OK. Why don't you think Macro was bussed?

Gut, at this point. A guess as to what the scum mindset would be. It's not impossible that he was bussed, it's just that I would expect that more only if scum had already secured two votes, and you weren't voting him and I don't think Rhinox is scum. So.

But I'm not really sweating it nor trying to convince anyone because everyone, afaik, thinks that there's at least 1 scum in the pool mentioned.

@Mod:

Kindly prod Sleepless Assassin.

Magua · Post Post #1095 (isolation #34) » Tue May 15, 2012 9:00 am

In post 1094, Fishythefish wrote:But... don't you think I'm scum? So scum
would
have secured two votes?

I even say this: but you weren't voting him.

Mmmm, rereading, there's a brainfart there, I'm assuming that only the scum with two votes would be doing the bussing, which isn't necessarily true. But the way my mind was working, the scum with the votes would be the busser because they'd be doing it for towncred, in order to get more votes given to them. Pretty sure it's in the scum's interests to centralize the votes, especially if one of the scum is trying to appear uber-townie.

So if there was a bussing scum, I'd expect it to be you, and it's not, so I don't think there was a bussing scum.

Very roundabout rationalization. I do what I can.

Magua · Post Post #1103 (isolation #35) » Wed May 16, 2012 4:58 am

Sleepless Assassin wrote:Magua, did you have a specific question for me?

It's, oh, nine days or so into the Day, you have no vote, you have, as far as I can tell, only expressed suspicion of Rhino, you've got no update on your DCL read and haven't mentioned him at all today, etc, and most of your posts are "I need to reread" except they're from 6-8 days ago.

So, my question is, "Who is scum and why are you not voting them?"

And pre-emptively, don't say "I don't know who scum is."

Magua · Post Post #1120 (isolation #36) » Fri May 18, 2012 6:47 am

La la la.

UNVOTE: fishythefish x 2
VOTE: Sleepless Assassin x 2

Sleepless Assassin wrote:Magua, to answer why I'm not voting, it's mostly that I'm not confident in my reads at all and haven't found any time to look over the game enough to change that.

Hi. I don't care if you're confident in your reads. I had Macrophage as a strong town-read, and look at me, I'm still voting. Put one down. All the cool kids are doing it.

DCL wrote:Anyway, I don't really like the case magua is making on fishy, the meta arguments really don't make a lot of sense. Besides, what is the point of meta if someone is not going to look at all the samples. Not sure if magua is being lazy town or sneaky scum with what he is trying to do but I don't like it either way.

Newsflash: kortul's not getting lynched. Vote someone who might get lynched.

Magua · Post Post #1126 (isolation #37) » Fri May 18, 2012 8:27 am

Don't want to wait.

STOP.

HAMMERTIME.

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin x 2

Magua · Post Post #1127 (isolation #38) » Fri May 18, 2012 8:40 am

*prays to receive third vote*

Magua · Post Post #1134 (isolation #39) » Fri May 18, 2012 2:48 pm

In post 1129, Voidedmafia wrote:Okay, Mag, really. What's the big idea trying to fakehammer?

Saw Sleepless was on. Thought it might be worth a shot.

Or maybe someone would yell at me for hammering without a claim.

Or maybe someone would yell at me for being stupid.

*shrugs*

It didn't cost anything, and it's not like I was drowning out all the scintillating conversation that happened anyways.

Also wanted to post the picture.

Also Sleepless posting #1132 when he knows he's at L-1 is meh.

Magua · Post Post #1136 (isolation #40) » Fri May 18, 2012 3:00 pm

In post 1110, DCLXVI wrote:Wow, d3 has completely made me forget about mafia..

Anyway, I don't really like the case magua is making on fishy, the meta arguments really don't make a lot of sense. Besides, what is the point of meta if someone is not going to look at all the samples. Not sure if magua is being lazy town or sneaky scum with what he is trying to do but I don't like it either way.

So you're willing to hammer SA.

You're willing to hammer kortul.

You don't like me.

Is there anyone you're *not* willing to hammer if the opportunity comes around?

Magua · Post Post #1138 (isolation #41) » Fri May 18, 2012 3:03 pm

Can you kindly let DCL answer questions directed at DCL?

Thanks.

Magua · Post Post #1141 (isolation #42) » Fri May 18, 2012 3:10 pm

In post 1140, Voidedmafia wrote:Not like I was wrong <_<

Yes, but your answer's not useful to me.

In post 1139, DCLXVI wrote:Hm, people I'm not willing to lynch.

Voided, DDD, Rhinox, Fishy, hiplop

People I would lynch

kortul, magua, SA

Please elucidate how in your head you're holding the idea that you're willing to lynch both myself and SA.

Magua · Post Post #1143 (isolation #43) » Fri May 18, 2012 3:14 pm

No, that can't be possibly what you're thinking because then you wouldn't be all "Hey gaiz I'm ok with lynching SA," you'd be, "Fuck this, lynch kortul."

Magua · Post Post #1145 (isolation #44) » Fri May 18, 2012 3:19 pm

I mean, seriously, you think it's (kortul, Magua) or (kortul, Sleepless Assassin).

You're all, "Lynch kortul,"

I'm all, "Dude, kortul isn't getting lynched, also, Vote: Sleepless"

You're all, "Magua, person I suspect of being partners with kortul, I'm totally willing to lynch this alternate person you are now voting."

You see the disconnect in there? How I cannot believe that you would suspect (kortul, Magua) and react in this way?

Magua · Post Post #1147 (isolation #45) » Fri May 18, 2012 3:23 pm

No, the point is that if he has suspicion that it's (kortul, Magua), *even if he has suspicions it may be (kortul, Sleepless Assassin)* I don't believe he'd go along with my vote on Sleepless. There's no, "Seeing what Sleepless thinks of kortul," there's no, "Who does it look like kortul wants to lynch."

Magua · Post Post #1149 (isolation #46) » Fri May 18, 2012 3:26 pm

In post 1148, DCLXVI wrote:Consider this Magua.

Maybe I suspect SA more than I suspect you.

You suspect Magua-who-defends-your-#1-scumread less than Sleepless?

DCLXVI wrote:Kinda surprised at how wound up you are getting over this. Do you want me to be voting you?

Yes.

Magua · Post Post #1153 (isolation #47) » Fri May 18, 2012 4:23 pm

In post 1150, DCLXVI wrote:So just to be clear magua,

You think that SA is scum, but you would rather have me vote for you..how odd...

What I'm doing should be pretty obvious to anyone, really. I don't even see how you classify it as 'odd'.

Magua · Post Post #1155 (isolation #48) » Fri May 18, 2012 4:34 pm

Voided knows exactly what I'm doing.

You shouldn't hide behind him as an excuse.

Magua · Post Post #1158 (isolation #49) » Fri May 18, 2012 5:03 pm

Voided.

Look.

Seriously.

I don't feel like I should have to say this, but I will:

You're pretty much confirmed town, so can you, and I mean this with all nicety, just let things get answered by the people who, y'know, aren't?

What I absolutely do not want is for DCL, or anyone, to be able to point to what you've written and say, "I agree with Voided" and leave it at that. I want DCL to explain why he thinks it odd, not duck out and hide behind what you've posted.

By all means, post what you think, etc, but you don't need to *explain* anything because we all know you're town.

Magua · Post Post #1160 (isolation #50) » Fri May 18, 2012 5:11 pm

In post 1158, Magua wrote:By all means, post what you think, etc, but you don't need to *explain* anything because we all know you're town.

Magua · Post Post #1161 (isolation #51) » Fri May 18, 2012 5:12 pm

In the meantime, DCL, what do *you* think I'm doing?

Magua · Post Post #1165 (isolation #52) » Sat May 19, 2012 4:21 am

In post 1162, DCLXVI wrote:I don't know what you are trying to accomplish right now, which is why I find what you are doing odd.

and since you don't seem to want to explain, then I guess this situation isn't going to move forward.

I'm happy to explain after you've given your thoughts on it.

Let's make some assumptions, shall we? Let's assume that I know the rules of the game, and that I've played the game before.

Let's further assume that I'm a mostly-rational person, that is, I'm trying to play this game to win and I honestly feel that my actions are a way of achieving that goal.

If you disagree with any of the above assumptions, let me know.

Otherwise, take a guess as to what I'm doing. Guwan. It'll be fun!

Magua · Post Post #1173 (isolation #53) » Sun May 20, 2012 3:49 pm

Sleepless, if you think Fishy is the scummiest person, why are you not voting them?

Magua · Post Post #1174 (isolation #54) » Sun May 20, 2012 3:50 pm

And before you're all, "I don't know who the scum were," you always had your vote on someone D1 and D2. What's different about D3?

Magua · Post Post #1204 (isolation #55) » Thu May 24, 2012 5:26 am

I don't want a lynch 'till we have a hiplop replacement who can weigh in on things.

Magua · Post Post #1227 (isolation #56) » Sat May 26, 2012 5:13 am

I'm not going to be here for the next two days (Memorial Day weekend in the US).

Magua · Post Post #1254 (isolation #57) » Thu May 31, 2012 9:03 am

How the fuck was hiplop a mason?

Magua · Thu May 31, 2012 10:06 am

Voided, are you a mason or not?

Magua · Thu May 31, 2012 11:29 am

I fully expected Voided to die last night.

I'm surprised a) that hiplop was a mason, and b) that he was shot in preference to Voided.

Even assuming that the scum knew that hiplop was a mason, shooting him in preference to Voided is just bizarre.

And yes, I am asking for a claim. Deal with it.

Magua · Post Post #1270 (isolation #60) » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:36 am

Three-man masonry can be fine if that's pretty much all the power that we have.

All of this assumes Voided-mason.

The part that gets me is Voided letting the Day end without even the hint that there was another mason, and then the scum killing hiplop instead of him.
Like, in a normal world, scum kill Voided, he leaves his 2 votes to hiplop, hiplop now has three votes and is a viable mislynch candidate.

But instead, this. It's possible that Macrophage had used his shot on hiplop and so knew he wasn't vanilla N1, but if they were willing to kill 4nxiety over hiplop N2, why hiplop over Voided N3?

I had thought *for sure* that hiplop had expressed some suspicion of Voided at the start of D3, but now I simply cannot find it. hiplop never questions Voided being obvtown or comments on it one way or the other, which I guess is the strongest indicator that I'm being paranoid, but the whole thing feels weird.

Magua · Post Post #1286 (isolation #61) » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:21 pm

Working on post.

Spoiler alert: I'm a vanilla townie.

Magua · Post Post #1287 (isolation #62) » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:21 pm

DCL can be next.

Magua · Post Post #1289 (isolation #63) » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:39 pm

Spoiler: IIoA

Magua · Post Post #1290 (isolation #64) » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:39 pm

God, this game.

I've spent the last few hours looking over the VCA, writing up a case on why Fishy is scum based on hopping on/off the

Macrophage

theomoaner wagon D1, then wandering off for a bit and coming back and reviewing and writing why Fishy is town for early bussage, and then wandering off, and etc.

This is actually the third revision of the post I've been trying to write, and I'm just saying fuck it all to conclusions and posting what I think about shit.

So, first things first. Fishy.

My prodding on Fishy was two-fold -- one, I can read him, from another site we used to play on, and I did (and still, to a point, do) find his posts to be scummy, hence my initial posts. After that, it was shit-stirring in the pot and an in general wanting to see what happened that kept my posts on him vague.

Also, I figured it would be more likely that I'd be seen as soft-claiming some investigation on him that way, and if I was right (I always think I'm right), more likely that I'd be NK'ed over someone who was actually a PR. (In retrospect, that was never going to happen with the masons, but whatever.)

Also also, I

was

am lazy.

Anyways, back to Fishy, and me looking over the VCA.

Point the first: Fishy starts on

Macrophage

theomoaner and stays there for a good long time at the start of D1. Seems town.
Point the second: Fishy puts him at L-1, then unvotes, telling him to get his will in order, then puts him at L-1 again, then jumps off in response to his claim. Never returns. Is on LastSurvivor briefly, then DDD the rest of the Day.

D2, gets on DDD, unvotes in response to claim, sits on DCLXVI.

The reasons for the votes and the unvotes I simply don't like, but unless the scumteam is Fishy/Macrophage/DDD and Fishy is the bussingest mofo around (and he's not), his behavior with both Macrophage's claim and DDD's claim is consistent. I'm leaning on the side of Fishy being town. I don't really want to do that (means I wasn't right), but there you go.

Rhinox: The thing that smells town to me about Rhinox isn't his hammer vote on Macrophage D2, it's him placing the 3rd vote on

Macrophage

theomoaner D1 in the runup that gets him to L-1.

DDD: See Rhinox. Now, DDD *may* be the bussingest mofo around (not entirely sure, to be honest), but his vote has been on Macrophage for pretty much most of D1 and all of D2 and, just, yeah, that seems too excessive for him to be scum.

This leads DCLXVI and kortul.

I want DCLXVI to be scum, but it just seems too *easy*, which makes me not like it (this also made me not like the Macrophage lynch, so). The one thing that immediately jumps out at me against DCLXVI-scum is, after DDD's claim in D2, he becomes the main counterwagon to Macrophage.

Kortul just fits easier for scum, though. Not in the limelight, not rocking the boat, just there. His 1v1 with DCLXVI at the end of D3 is odd (on DCL's side, too), and I'm still not sure what to make of it. However, reviewing the votes on Macrophage D1 and D2, I do not believe that DDD or Rhinox are bussing, I independently don't believe that Fishy is scum, so that means that at least one scum had to be bussing Macrophage (or it's a Fishy+DCL team, which, again, not seeing), and kortul is the odd man out.

VOTE: kortul

Magua · Post Post #1296 (isolation #65) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:34 pm

In post 1294, kortul wrote:Still on kindle. I am VT.

@Magua - i can't read you logically at all. All this info was there on day 3, yet you were on Fishy and SA. And how can you be seen softclaiming investigation on Fishy when you happily switch to SA and sit there until the end of the day? But if you needed my lynch you could do it when i was at L-2, that makes you less likely to be scum... I want my internet back and finish the research

Er? The info that was different between yesterday and today is that Sleepless was town. Sleepless was my strongest read for scum. Then he got lynched and flipped town.

As for softclaiming the investigation on Fishy, that was since I replaced in on D2 and then for about half(?) of D3, about three weeks in real life. The switch onto Sleepless was partly because I found Sleepless scummier, and partly because I slowly realized that Voided was going to die N3 regardless.

@Rhino:

Who you *do* find scummy would be useful.

Magua · Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:38 am

Rhinox wrote:Neither of [DDD,Magua] were in the previous LW games, so if thats the thought process they expected town to have, then I can see DDD's claim being a plausible one for scum to make.

I was scum in Last Will II, though I flaked and got replaced by esuriospiritus before it ended.

Voidedmafia wrote:Wait, what makes you think Mag even has an investigation?

This was in reference to me saying I was trying to softclaim a guilty investigation on Fishy.

So, going back at things.

In 834, Macrophage and DDD are both at L-2, with each voting for the other.

Sleepless Assassin votes DDD in 839, making Macrophage L-2 and DDD L-1.

4nxi3ty votes Macrophage in 844, so they're both at L-1.

Macrophage unvotes DDD in 849, asking DDD to claim: Macrophage is at L-1, DDD is at L-2.

DCL unvotes Macro, votes DDD in 860, making it Macro L-2 and DDD L-1.

kortul unvotes Macrophage, votes DCL in 865, Macrophage votes DCL in 866, but maintains that DDD needs to claim.

DDD finally claims in 913:

Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:My role name is that of a Secretary; I have a one-shot ability. I'm leaning towards it being better for me to not claim what my ability actually does though I'm sure some people will "hurr durr" at me until I'm forced to claim it anyways.

Macrophage's response in 932:

Macrophage wrote:I don't want to lynch Debonair and especially don't want to lynch 4n now.

There are a number of strange things here. First, Macrophage unvoting while asking for a claim. Then, before Macrophage even gets that claim -- before DDD even says he's not going to claim unless he's at L-1 with an intent to hammer -- Macrophage's jump onto DCL is odd (as I noted at the time). His total buy-in to DDD's claim when it's given (at a point when DDD, who he'd been pushing for most of the Day, is at L-1, he lets him go with such a vague claim, and then bypasses hammering him in order to put his vote onto Voided. That is, after being a prime contender for a wagon both D1 and D2, he bypasses the chance to lynch a claimed PR to put a lone vote onto Voided.

UNVOTE: kortul
VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro

Magua · Post Post #1322 (isolation #67) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:40 am

In post 1319, Voidedmafia wrote:Going by the timestamps from 860 to 865, he had about 5 hours to hammer between DCL voting DDD and you unvoting him. It's not a big window, and it's not small either, but I don't remember if he was even there at the time.

Also, Mag, please clean up that last paragraph before your vote. I think I understand what you're saying, but the lack of a closing parenthesis makes it difficult.

I'll restate.

Macrophage and DDD are both at L-1, each voting the other.

Macrophage unvotes and asks DDD to claim. Meanwhile, DCL unvotes Macrophage and votes DDD -- this is at 860, 4/28 at 2:00pm EST. From this point on, Macrophage has the ability to hammer DDD (he posts at 866 for instance, voting DCL over DDD).

DDD stays at L-1 until 914 when Fishy unvotes, which was 5/2 at 1:00pm EST, so he was there for some four days, not five hours.

(The part I did miss is that DDD claims in 913, Fishy unvotes in 914, makes it impossible for Macrophage to hammer after that occurred.) Still, Macrophage goes from "DDD is scum, DDD is scum, DDD is scum," to, "I buy your rolename claim with no details" completely. Compare Macrophage's response ("I believe you, DDD!") to Fishy's response (tons of questions) for instance.

It feels, entirely, like Macrophage was looking to give DDD a way out, and get the wagon onto someone else (DCL).

In post 1321, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
Magua's case is problematic is several ways. First, it's solely based on what scum did which means scum can manipulate it to make things appear one way or another. It also ignores, like Voided points out, real life time sequence. It also ignores that speedhammering an unclaimed town player means he certainly dies the next day and most scum have bigger goals than getting one last mislynch before going down with the ship.

I don't ignore the "hammering unclaimeds can make your life expectancy short if they flip town," but I do counterpoint that Macrophage was a leading wagon D1 and D2. The scummier facet, as I see it, is Macrophage entirely dropping suspicion of you when you claimed "Secretary" but refused to give out any details. Even with Fishy's unvote in 914, he could have jumped back on and resumed suspicion of you, or pressed for details of your claim to try to get it confirmed (like Fishy did), but he doesn't. Why do you think he was so willing to give up your lynch and move onto DCL?

Magua · Post Post #1325 (isolation #68) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:26 am

In post 1323, Rhinox wrote:Magua:

If DDD is scum with macro, what do you make of the whole claiming to flip macro's will with the secretary role to give you macro's vote?

Operating theory is that DDD's power either does something else (and wasn't used), or he claimed to have used it as a cover so he could save it for later.

Magua · Post Post #1332 (isolation #69) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:14 pm

Doublt DCL is scum, seeing as he was the wagon-of-choice from Macrophage.

I can buy DDD as town and DDD as scum, so: UNVOTE: DDD, VOTE: kortul

Magua · Post Post #1335 (isolation #70) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:50 pm

In post 1333, kortul wrote:Magua, this isn't some newbie game, so conclusions based on straight newbie tells from an experienced player isn't what i expected from you.

Obviously I'm far more terrible than you realize.

kortul wrote:Macro didn't quickhammer DDD before he started claim therefore DDD is scum? Macro switched to DCL therefore DCL isn't scum?

How about: Macro didn't quickhammer DDD, instead unvoted and asked for a claim. Before he received this claim, he put his vote somewhere else. When DDD claimed, and by claimed I mean, said "I'm a one-shot PR but I'm not going to tell you what," Macrophage said, "Okay, person whom I've been pushing all Day, I believe you" and left it at that.

DCL has everything to do with interaction with Macrophage and nothing to do with DCL's posts himself, but DCL-as-scum-partner requires that DCL-scum sees Macrophage-partner up against DDD, and votes (busses) Macrophage, but then makes the skankiest switch ever to DDD when Macrophage-partner unvotes to get a claim, and is then beset for it. There's no scum motivation. DCL could've hammered DDD before, he could've stayed on Macrophage for towncred, but instead throws all the possible towncred away to join a wagon your partner just left? Nah.

kortul wrote:Let me continue this simple logic - Magua lynched two town and didn't lynch scum - he must be one hell of a scum. It all works with people who don't know how to play properly, are trigger happy and live in a current moment, not thinking about the past or planning ahead. Right now you suspect that i am scum who was bussing Macro, yet you don't even think that Macro could be bussing DCL. For all we know he could be bussing both DDD and DCL, we don't know who is his main account to find out how likely this is and what is his base scum behavior. We don't know whether Macro thought his lynch is inevitable or not, whether he needed to survive that day to tell his results to scummates or not, whether he was serious about lynching DCL or had the luxury to leave fake tells, just in case he was lynched that day.

If Macrophage thought his lynch was inevitable, the only reason he wouldn't've hammered DDD when DCL gave him the chance is if DDD was his partner, yes?

So either DDD is partner, or Macrophage thought he could survive his lynch, or Macrophage was being bussed and going down for the towncred. Those are my three operating theories.

The only one in which DCL-scum makes sense is if DCL is too scared too hammer DDD to save his partner, but is not, for some reason, too scared to vote DDD when his partner unvotes. That is, the only potential DCL-scum case involves this thought process:

DDD is at L-1, DCL is voting partner
DCL: Man, if I hammer DDD I'll look hella scummy.
Macrophage unvotes DDD
DCL: I better vote DDD so that my partner can hammer, that won't look scummy at all!

Reeeeeeeegardless, given that my vote's on you and not on DDD, I'm obviously willing to buy that DDD may, in fact, be town, and that Macrophage was hoping something would pop up and save him from being lynched.

DDD wrote:Does this bother other people as much as it bothers me?

Nope.jpg.

Magua · Post Post #1344 (isolation #71) » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:46 am

Fishythefish wrote:This is nonsense. A quick mod/DCL iso shows DCL went on V/LA with the count at Macro 5 (including DCL), 4n 3, DDD 2. He returned at Macro 6, DDD 5, SA 1 and switched his vote. You're crediting DCL with making decisions at times he was definitely not online. I think the actual events fit really well with him being scum; as soon as there was a viable alternative he went for it.

DCL's V/LA was till Thursday, 4/26.

His unvote of Macrophage/vote on DDD occurred on Saturday, 4/28, three days after his V/LA was over.

You can see from his posts on this site (hope this link works) that he was posting Thursday through Saturday on site, just not in this thread.

With Sleepless' L-1 vote on DDD at midnight 4/27, and DCL being on the site and posting in other games, I think the argument holds water.

Fishythefish wrote:As for your other defense of DCL, I think his wagon doesn't point to him being town, particularly if you believe I'm town. Only Macro joined it who could be scum - not exactly a serious counterwagon, and could easily be a flailing bus from Macro.

The question/problem is, "Why flailing bus when you could've hammered town?"

Stuff from kortul that starts with the assumption that I didn't read all that when my posts have been very clear that I read all that.

It's three days to deadline. Rhinox needs to stop being useless. DDD needs to say who he thinks scum is. DCL needs to realize that Fishy isn't getting lynched today.

Magua · Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:43 am

3 days. Literally zero other support for a Fishy wagon. What, exactly, were you waiting for?

Magua · Post Post #1355 (isolation #73) » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:42 am

In post 1354, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Basically it appears he's pinning everything on the actions of scum ignoring the fact that scum often intentionally manipulate their behaviors to indict town players and also ignoring scum's basic survival instincts.

This is amusing, because my suspicion comes from you is *because* Macrophage not hammering you reads to me entirely like scum ignoring basic survival instincts.

Given that you're certain about Rhinox and uncertain about partner, and given that Rhinox and I both had zero votes on us, why did you vote me over Rhinox?

Magua · Post Post #1360 (isolation #74) » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:57 am

Hey. Voided. Here's what you need to consider:

I'm town. Don't care if you lynch me to confirm this, because it's true.

Problem is that after you lynch me, you'll be dead. So, what's going to happen is that town will look at your post tomorrow and see that you surmise that DCL is scum with no one else. And that you think DCL is scum solely because of PoE.

That's terrible. So even if you're going to vote me, kindly give your reads assuming that I've flipped town, kthx.

Magua · Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:04 am

Also, Voided, allow me to *strongly* suggest that you order your list so that it has a townread in both the first and the last spot.

Magua · Post Post #1374 (isolation #76) » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:22 am

Strongest townread should be first, but instead of putting second strongest townread second, put them last.

@kortul:

Why are you asking if you can change your will at Night? Are you saying you've not adjusted your will after any of the previous lynches?

Voidedmafia wrote:Yknow, Mag, I'd love to have that kind of connection to give for when I'm dead. Really would. Sadly, that's not how things work in Voidedtown, not at this point. This is turning more and more into Marketplace Mafia for me, though unlike there isn't anyone making some sort of tell that I can latch onto (or a post that helps me rethink a read) (on the plus side, Grey isn't in this game.).

The point is that I *am* going to flip town.

I'm pretty sure that DCL is town. Seriously. The only people I'm interested in lynching are kortul or DDD, in approximately that order -- I think DCL is town, I think Fishy is town, I'm unsure on Rhino.

Given the one day till deadline, the chances of me being lynched are pretty damn high. So let's pretend that I've already flipped town and you can give your reads before you're killed right after I'm lynched.

Magua · Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:48 am

Can you give me the time period when you updated your will after the flip but before the Night? Don't want a timestamp, just a general 15 minute window.

Magua · Post Post #1384 (isolation #78) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:28 am

Sad.

Sadder that you're willing to go korts if I flip scum, but not if I flip town, if I'm reading you right.

But etc.

Magua · Post Post #1385 (isolation #79) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:23 am

Townreads are (strong=>weak) Voided => Fishy => DCL

Scumreads are (strong=>weak) kortul => DDD => Rhino.

Yes, I think both of the other Mafia were bussing Macrophage at the end of D2.

Magua · Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:58 pm

Sucks that I was so wrong about Macrophage, because I was so right on basically everything else.

Magua · Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:58 pm

(Really did think Fishy was scum when I replaced in, so I was wrong about that too, but I corrected that mistake before the end. Half point.)

Magua · Post Post #1400 (isolation #82) » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:16 am

Dead QT -- pretty empty.

My post-lynch PM to Llama, which amuses me more in hindsight:

Magua wrote:
Welp, I'd like to think I at least redeemed myself for flaking out of Last Will II.

Do you have a Dead QT?

If you don't, I'm going to say kortul + DDD, how awesome/terrible am I?

Magua · Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:05 pm

In post 1401, Voidedmafia wrote:And this is AFTER you ridicule me for having Kortul as a scumspect? I sense irony here.

Er, what? I never ridiculed you for having kortul as a suspect. He was my strongest suspect and I was voting him for the majority of D4.

Magua · Post Post #1405 (isolation #84) » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:49 pm

Er?

Let's ignore the fact that I was voting him, and ignore the fact that he was my strongest scumread.

You said, "I'm going after kortul if Magua flips scum," which insinuated that you wouldn't go after kortul if I flipped town.

I knew I was going to flip town, that's the whole reason I was asking you for reads.

My statement is that I was sad that you'd be willing to go after him in the scenario that I already knew wasn't going to happen, but didn't comment on going after him in the scenario that I knew *would* happen.

Magua · Post Post #1408 (isolation #85) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:02 am

In post 1407, kortul wrote:The goal of scumhunting is not to find a scum, but to find and persuade town that you are right. It doesn't help if you die with the knowledge that you were right, i learned it from a lot of RL games. Forum has an added bonus, that once you flip everyone knows that you were town, but that doesn't mean they will believe your reads - after all, you were suspicious enough to lynch you, so why should they believe you after death?

Oh, I'm not saying, "I rule and everyone else sucks." I'm more just trying to take a second place finish as, "I lost, but at least I have the consolation of calling the scum."

kortul wrote:
You were against my lynch on D3, then i was scum because of PoE on D4, and by the end of D4 i become strongest scumread. But you did no cases on us, so that was still PoE from your point of view. I didn't even try to defend, since there were no accusations. You were right, but to prove that you needed a lot of work to do.

I have been coming to the conclusion for some time that cases are way overrated. =P

kortul wrote:One question to you, Magua - you suspected both DDD and Rhinox (to a lesser extent) when you made you final reads post, and you knew that Voided has them as town, so why did you give your votes to Voided? Just think ahead - if Voided is town he is going to die with 5 votes total, and will pass them to HIS town reads, so chances of DDD/Rhinox getting votes are close to 100%. That's why i said that Last Will mechanics makes it harder for town to win in the end - you have to think ahead and sometimes make not straight decisions.

Hey, kortul. I like you alright, but please don't patronize me as if I don't know how mechanics work. I agree that the Last Will mechanic makes the game more scum-sided; I gave Voided the votes to eliminate a step in that chain. The goal in my head wasn't to 'circumvent' Voided like you propose because I thought his reads were wrong, but more to make him try to pay attention to my reads after I died.

Magua · Post Post #1411 (isolation #86) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:40 am