Large Normal 208 - Fireworks Festival [End]

[Whiskers]

Re: Your reasons for voting Flubber

I want to say, I was so vehement on killing the Flubber wagon (not that I actually had any sway, but I tried at least) was due to the fact that most of the votes didn't give reasons to support them, and I felt the reasons were mostly bad.

It sounds like your vote on him was simply for pressure and he reacted badly? But like, not engaging with you after a vote and lurking it out is, I feel, pretty null. That's a good thing to do as town or scum when the heat is on. (at least, I've found it works as town or scum.)

I should say something like "You should take a long hard look at UC Voyager slot then! That's how everybody is with him!" (ie, poking him and his reaction is to lurk) But honestly I get what you're saying, and it's not really the same because UC Voyager was

kiiind

of a counterwagon? Except never actually got wagoned. And, of course, that he ended up replacing out (but that's not really alignment telling, is it?)

I also understand what you mean with your PoE post mostly.


One thing-- you said

"Normally town who are average are the scumtargets,"

right after saying

"Flub should have been pushed for his average content and hadn't yet."

And after rereading that and writing it out like this, I also understand that, too. So nevermind.

But then, shouldn't we look at

you

and worry that

you're

scum, for pressuring mediocre townies, something that

scum

purportedly likes to do?

[Whiskers]

I have to go to work but the opening Whiskers votes are clearly scum motivated. Flubber was clearly the counter wagon to Quick, doing a VCA late tonight should also help us net another.

VOTE: Flubber

I don't like the votes on me either obviously, but I think considering Flubber a counterwagon to Quick is wrong. We're in a bit of a unique situation where we got a flip and then had many viable wagons, all before the end of Day 1. IMO you should be looking at MY wagon as the main one, and Flubbernugget's wagon as the counterwagon to ME. Quick was a hasty policy lynch that had little telling information-- because most of the people on the wagon were policy lynching him.

Again, I think this is a bad reason for voting/lynching Flubber.

Especially when like 2 clears and myself wanted him ded

being cleared town doesn't make thier reads better. See Dunk.

Correct. However as cleared Town their reads are guaranteed to come from a good place. So while I hate town blocks I find that taking what masons say important.

No, they're really not guaranteed to come from a good place-- unless you literally mean "from town," in which case we haven't technically cleared them but I understand what you mean (occam's razor).
Assuming they are indeed masons, then they are still part of an uninformed majority and the're still subject to misinformation and misguidedness as much as the rest of the town. You should pay attention, ofc, but I don't see cozying up to them and blanketly saying they will always have important reads as being correct.

Nero is right that it's common for wagons to run from town to town

But whiskers just isn't getting lynched despite not a lot of voices being against it

This is the WiFoM of a desperate player.

That means Whiskers is a mislynch or a null read or is (unlikely) scum. I can literally take resistance or what you are saying as resistance when it really isn't and make it into anything.

What can't be manipulated is the why of people are and aren't on the wagon. I have scumread you pretty damn close to on replace in and statements like this only reaffirm my read.

I disagree here, as well-- that's kind of literally how mafia works, isn't it? You manipulate other people's reads by changing their opinions.

Flubber is a pretty fuckin dangerous wagon and I think Alisae's slot still has some big jumps in logic, despite the replacement.

albeit smaller jumps than before.

[Whiskers]

Working backwards on this post:

Also to put it in context, flub had no pressure from anywhere else on the table but from me and it was just a vote. I didnt expect him to be "in my face" kinda for it but just ask me why etc idk he did nothing to try to sort me and my fos on him, nada

I don't generally reply to one empty vote on me either.

Also, i disagree about "not engaging with you after a vote and lurking it out is, I feel, pretty null". The game i have been isoing is one of the many games where i found mafias for accumulated tells like flub's. IMO, not engaging someone who scumread you (and you townread) is extremely fucking scummy.

In that case, you should reread me with the consideration that I went mostly afk for a while while my wagon was picking up steam and was at it's peak.
Coming back and seeing the Flub counterwagon coming in was reassuring and meant I could re-enter the thread and re-apply pressure to Quick, but there was a (relatively) large period of time where I wasn't voting (Alisae and Cabd (I think?) gave me shit for this) and then I stopped posting so much.

How do you read

that?

[Whiskers]

I think Alisae's slot still has some big jumps in logic, despite the replacement.

albeit smaller jumps than before.

I think youre town and your attitude towards flub is unwarranted

I don't like

Alisae

Mathblade defending me by ignoring my wagon.
I don't think a policy lynch wagon counts as "counterwagon to scum." `

[Whiskers]

Also, you are using your play in this game as to try to prove me wrong that my theory or read or tell about ppl not engaging is scummy. You are trying to use hidden info (your alignement) to try to defend your point which is really absurd in a vacuum but also not something i think scum really do often but when they know what theyre doing

I mean, I guess?

It's less that I want you to reevaluate your Flubber read because I'm p sure you're stuck there-- I don't think I can ply you out of it (it's basically down to conf bias and "looks scummy to me!"), but I think you should read UCV/Lucky's slot with the same attitude in mind, and also mine, because I think that will reflect on your flubber read

[Whiskers]

I think Alisae's slot still has some big jumps in logic, despite the replacement.

albeit smaller jumps than before.

I think youre town and your attitude towards flub is unwarranted

I don't like

Alisae

Mathblade defending me by ignoring my wagon.
I don't think a policy lynch wagon counts as "counterwagon to scum." `

Why not? You could say that its hard to get a verbalized PL wagon, like no one and their mothers wants to be caught on a PL wagon, especially not scum. Why did that happen then? Maybe because there was an incentive outside the PL itself which is the CW to mefias.

I'm not 100% following you here.

However, I'll say: a PL wagon is based on emotion/personality (at least in this case) and is really easy to come out and say, "well, is this scummy? Yes. But so be it!! I stand by my vote" and/or, "we need a lynch! Couldn't lynch anybody else at this stage!" And so the vote analysis is washed away. Townies and scum can agree that "Quick is annoying/anti-town!" and that in and of itself invalidates all the PL votes on him because PLing isn't alignment indicative.

I think that wagon was

easier

to push through than the others we'd seen that Day on account of that security-- you

can't

be attacked for policy lynching somebody (especially if enough people are doing it that the wagon goes through). You

can't,

PLing isn't alignment indicative. The votes on Flubber were so weak that the case for PLing Quick was

stronger.

The votes on My wagon only moved onto Flubber after a considerable amount of time and a bunch of pressure-- really weird Blank Votes that came from townie-looking people.

PLUS my wagon came from every camp in the game. Beeboy and Nero and everybody-- everybody who scumread each other all came together to vote Whiskers. Everybody was unanimous, even scum. The fact that a mysterious wagon with Blank Votes came and saved me really tweaks me and saying that "oh actually the shitty quick wagon that everybody felt good about because they didn't have to think saved Flubber-- Flubber must be scum!" is wrong and bad.

idk, I'm tired and I think I've become incoherent.

[Whiskers]

PLUS my wagon came from every camp in the game. Beeboy and Nero and everybody-- everybody who scumread each other all came together to vote Whiskers. Everybody was unanimous, even scum. The fact that a mysterious wagon with Blank Votes came and saved me really tweaks me and saying that "oh actually the shitty quick wagon that everybody felt good about because they didn't have to think saved Flubber-- Flubber must be scum!" is wrong and bad.

Like, here's a thing: Why would scum not just lynch me? Considering enemy camps were all down to vote, why would scum not just push that through? Why would they offload onto Flubber?
And then, why would they offload onto Quick? Because tbh, if Quick was the counterwagon to Flubber, and you want to analyse that, you have to be ready to consider why mafia wanted Quick and not flubber. And if they didn't want flubber, why was there even a flubber wagon in the first place?
flubber wagon didn't grow organically, it had a bunch of blank votes, and Nero. It's not like scum woudl have to try super hard to avoid a scum!Flubber lynch, just push/vote whiskers, and then the Flubber wagon never even forms. So IMO flubber isn't scum, scum wouldn't allow it.

[Whiskers]

I think that wagon was easier to push through than the others we'd seen that Day on account of that security-- you can't be attacked for policy lynching somebody (especially if enough people are doing it that the wagon goes through). You can't, PLing isn't alignment indicative. The votes on Flubber were so weak that the case for PLing Quick was stronger. The votes on My wagon only moved onto Flubber after a considerable amount of time and a bunch of pressure-- really weird Blank Votes that came from townie-looking people.

hm no, pling is inherently really fucking AI

yeah except if it's really fucking AI then everybody on that wagon but me and Nauci are scum-- that's 7 people if I remember correctly.

alternatively, what if scum

ARE

trying to save you for reasons other than you being scum and Flubb is a scumlead counter wagon.

hrmmm....

I don't follow.

[Whiskers]

hrmmm....

I don't follow.[/quote]or i guess, i don't know what kind of reasons you could be entertaining.

The whiskers wagon was never a thing mostly because im loud af and many people swtiched off your wagon, including the alisae replace out.

i disagree, my wagon lasted the majority of Day 1. I was a wagon almost all throughout. I was a wagon when Dunkey was shot, I was a wagon up until people started going "well we can't lynch whiskers today, gotta vote PL Quick instead!"

[Whiskers]

I don't consider meta on another site actual meta.

reading thread OP

js

[Whiskers]

Looked at Mini Normal 1890 where you are scum. First thing that jumped out at me was that you were lynched, your scum team still won,

but you didn't post at all at the end game, which tells me you aren't really interested in feedback/growing as a player

, which is consistant with your current alt.

Mmmm, that's good confirmation bias.

and this is a post from Boonskiies that presumably lead to your lynch on the day you replaced in as scum:

We lynch this today. That is just a ridiculous thing to attack. Look at that. He says I was wrong about what it was when I didn't even explain it? Why the fuck would I explain it? I don't give a fuck what any of you all think. I flat out stated that it wasn't the reason too, so stop discrediting. Holy fuck, never been more sure of a scum slot than this.

Suggests you are not as great a player as you think you are, and that your surface attitude(trying to be disruptive, not trying to find scum) is probably more of your real attitude/intentions that just bad play.

I don't think that's a good quote to represent it unless you want to give us some more context-- All I'm seeing is a player talking a lot of shit, which plenty of people in this game have done. "XYZ is totally scummy and 100% scum, we lynch this today!!" like we haven't already had people try to wield total town power already, in this game. I don't think it's indicative of Joey's play. JS.

I don't consider meta on another site actual meta.

reading thread OP

js

Please explain.

Because we already knew that Joey was an alt for Cloudkicker. We knew this way before Alisae replaced out. And even if you didn't, Joey had

just

posted screencaps with posts from Cloudkicker, that he was claiming were his. "Hey I wrote this Cloudkicker post" is a sign that maybe Joey is Cloudkicker, idk.

2mil being SAVAGE here

is he though?
(why are these posts better than earlier posts?)

ok whiskers is not going to be as easy as flubber

Heh, try reading Alisae/Math.
Hell, try reading Quick!
I just broke two pages a little while ago, but Quick was well into ISO page 2 range by the time he was lynched.

i thought it was a rule yu couldn't use things like avatar's as reason to vote someone or make a case against them.....tbh im not the biggest fan of anime either. i think it is kind of dumb

Im rereading ucv, this is prob his first post i find actually scummy

??? What about this is scummy? Noob is noob.

[Whiskers]

@Thread

Reasons that Whiskers is the most likely to flip scum today

I have some issues with whiskers ISO,
back in the range From about 253(iso) Onwards.

In that region: I find examples of him defending himself, or producing Filler.

See earlier posts for some examples or go read it yourself
Do not consider it as single post, but as Body of work.

Basically, I don't see Whiskers playing in the thread in that part of the game, with a towny intent.
Iso starting at 253(iso24) down to 2069(iso151)

Defending one's self isn't scum-telling.
Having discussion with the town at large isn't "filler."

Meanwhile....

Whiskers

Why are you not voting? Who do you want to vote and why?

What have you learned about Nauci?

Nero

I don't want to. Maybe Mathblade 'cause the slot is scum.

Nauci definitely wasn't bussing Quick.

[Whiskers]

I'd actually argue that Bee isn't all that active.

I agree with this. Bee, I'd have called you active up until about when Dunk flipped, from then on you've been hanging around as "townie lurker."

I don't have meta on you so it's probably time I started poking people like you.

[Whiskers]

I'm not lynching anything without a case.

If I'm the only one that's going to make cases this game, then I'm only ever going to vote my reads, and good fucking luck to the rest of you.

Town is inactive af and that's what's going to lose us the game.

[Whiskers]

It's really strange that someone can shitpost for 120+ pages and then blame the mod for people not being interested enough to keep up.

eat actual shit

[Whiskers]

What made you downgrade him?

Beeboy isn't following the activity pattern I've seen him use as scum before.

idiotic meta argument

@Whiskers

I believe Rhahs question may be going here

If I'm the only one that's going to make cases this game, then I'm

only ever

going to vote my reads, and good fucking luck to the rest of you.

Spoiler: open if you want heads up onwhat i think is going on

If I'm the only one that's going to make cases this game, then I'm

only ever

going to vote my reads, and good fucking luck to the rest of you.

Whiskers could you quote your Alisae case for me please

Rhahs real question.
Rhah RQ: Why the sudden push for cases now?
Rhah RQ: When back before

on D1

you were prepared to do anything?

Whisk:

Alisae was D1 wagon for reactions

? To feel people out?

bad news is, Rhah: well that was why you should have been making stuff out of all those posts back then?

Whisk: yeah but if I went all casey and full certain of it, then if it was wrong, that would score double mislynch.
So on D1 your largely caseless vote was as strong as your read.

Good job putting words in my mouth.

Green is mine-- neither of these happened. Your premise is faulty, your conclusion is wrong.
This is The Worst, because I don't know if I even am capable of draining enough pus away from your posts to make a case on you.
But the misrepresentation here is good enough for a vote.

If thats your explanation then you still ficking fencesitted. Basically you townread quick, quick was 300% goong to get lynched if flub wasnt lynched forst. Like i understand that your vote on whiskers wasnt at the very deadline but still, you didnt show any intent on being active close to deadline to maybe change yor vote, and who knows being coherent with your quick townread

eh, I kind of disagree with your read of the situ here, joey. remember you gave Axel or whoever shit for "voting with his scumread" instead of voting his scumread whiskers.

My question to you is you seem to regard fence sitting as scummy. Would you characterize Whiskers no vote as fence sitting? Lack of reads??? (Despite promising them mid D1)

The no-vote happening now?
The lack of reads that I resolved (by posting reads) Day 1?

@Gerryoat

3 questions

Q1,Q2,Q3

please answer this time.
The earlier one I let slide,

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

Q1

Which bits sold you?

Oh hey, I let this slide too.

Why are you making people defend their votes on YOUR top scumread? Shouldn't you be trying to convince other townies to vote??

[Whiskers]

ok whiskers is not going to be as easy as flubber

Heh, try reading Alisae/Math.

What do ya mean by the underlined huh?[/quote]
I mean Alisae made a lot of posts, and you've made posts on top of that. That's a lot of posts.

And before people attack me saying that those wagons was there before the flub wagon was a thing, all of those wagons got killed at some point of d1 but they always reapeared

honestly this is the best support for a flubbernugget lynch I've seen so far. IMO.

Quick (9) - Whiskers, UC Voyager, Nauci, Flubbernugget, AxleGreaser, gerryoat, Nero Cain, beeboy, Joey_

I mean my immediate reaction is that bee is scum that got on this wagon. I also think gerry is pretty scummy. Part of me wants to town read everyone that came before Gerry but I'm worried that Whiskers is scum that's been trying to placate me lately.


Bee/HST/Gerry/Whiskers?

I mean, you've read me as scum for a good long while, I haven't really DONE anything to placate you (except the outright begging), and I certainly didn't put my vote on Quick before gerry did in an attempt to placate you halfway through Day 2.

Your saving grace is that I kinda think that Whiskers is scum that was defending you for town cred.

Ugh, then flip me already, you have the support.

Axle that was actually a fairly convincing case. Hmm.

I'll stew on that.

yeah, and it makes me think that the half of his posts that aren't coherent are an act.

or just unable to read 120 pages that quickly.

Just skip most of the Joey/TiaM banter.

Also skip most of the Joey/Quick banter.

actually there's a lot you can skip.


Aaaaaand, I just hit the Lucky Read-Wall.

[Whiskers]

whiskers. early day 1 showed alot of frustration and caps sentences in his wall posts that came across like alot of scum faking town frustration.

--------------------------

Finally Joey Underscore. Joey's reaction to the day vig flip was fake.

Wtf is it with this game and any display of emotion is "fake?" Fuck off.

Joey moving votes in quick succession on page 66 was pretty scummy.

You might have missed it, but his moving votes in quick succession was a sarcastic af

His sheep to beeboy was scummier. His next post after that declaring he is sure the conf town are conf town is scum trying to look town.

Also, they weren't conftown. In fact, technically, only Cabd became conftown, and that was after this post. If you listen to 2Mil, at least, he doesn't even consider himself to be conftown via "I didn't claim anything." Beeboy is towny only by early play. That's a townread that's fast decaying as we have to acknowledge that optimal scumplay here is to have half of the scum (meaning 1/3 or 2/4) in the lurkers.

The entire Quick vs Joey back and forth can now be looked at from a perspective of knowing that quick was town, so did anyone go back and read that?

You know that's called "Confirmation Bias," right?

Cause Joey is scum.

Case in point.

He white knights TIAM, and I think at one point says that he knew TIAM was town before the mason claim. The assessment that joey is buddying everyone he can is accurate and it is scum, please lynch it.

But that was joey's whole fuckin argument against TIAM/2Mil-- that having reads that turn out to be correct doesn't actually incriminate him as scum.

[Whiskers]

Jfc #3154 is scummy as all shit. Can I get a second opinion on that one?

Want to explain this? (it's in reference to Lucky's wall, for reference)

Looks like standard catchup reads to me.

This post had me laughing out loud. If the entire point of not talking about your town reads is wrong then you wouldn't have listed them as Town reads like what? Furthermore by not justifying your townreads you're not able to have them poked and prodded to see where they are wrong. Like...????

What??
Outting your townreads =/= writing out a lot of thoughts on your townreads.

Oh I think I'm enjoying that. 2IAM, is that exactly a good reason to scumread Joey as if those players weren't.. capable of being wrong on him the same as anyone else would be?

They are more likely to be right than scum, who have motivation to scumread town and townread scum.

In that case, why are you voting Joey? wasn't your big attack on Joey that he was townreading town?

This post had me laughing out loud. If the entire point of not talking about your town reads is wrong then you wouldn't have listed them as Town reads like what? Furthermore by not justifying your townreads you're not able to have them poked and prodded to see where they are wrong. Like...????

So you disagree with a playstyle preference of mine. What about everything else in my post. Do you disagree with any of my scum leanings?

For someone who claimed to have read you would know that I townread Whiskers instantly.

Like what?

But apparently it's not a strong enough read that you're going to dispute that read, you're just gonna vote him. What else do you think is wrong/bad reads/scummy? Because now we're up to a difference in playstyle and a difference of 1 read. Your vote is fucking weak.

One town player scumreading someone is a coincidence, two is a pattern.

that's only statistics!

To start, if you want to discredit me don't half-ass it next time? I've done plenty of VI shit you can mention.

You're argument on me saying your useless is I didn't fully cover why your useless but you agree with the outcome? Do you teach math? Cause it sounds like I got the right answer and you're just mad I didn't show my work. Thanks for self admitting you're useless and thus invalidating your opinion on me.

What I'm telling you is, you should have at least bullshitted properly. Do you really want me to dig into your post? Cause your combative tone doesn't actually cover up what you try to pass off as "content" lol

oh damn, would you? digging into someone's posts and like

building a case?

that'd be really useful all of a sudden.

in the meantime, we can all lynch scum Gerry.

I mean, if you're so certain Joey is scum, you could just lynch the slot that would

remain

scum and prevent another player from having to replace into this game (and spend days and days catching up, and then have everybody in the town whinge about how they aren't posting enough, and then when they make a catchup/reads post, have half the active players jump to lynch them anyway).

Just a fuckin thought.

[Whiskers]

part of me wants to just vote Joey so this game doesn't need another replacement

oh, I guess you beat me to it.

[Whiskers]

I'm not tho

Someone wanna give me a rundown of what's going on or link to cases? Reading 128 pages is a bit of a chore I might not get around to..

there are no cases, just vote your favorite avatar, ez gaym ez lyfe

[Whiskers]

Typically when someone replaces out when they are being wagoned isn't it because they are scum that don't want the loss to count against their "record"?

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Typically when someone replaces out when they are being wagoned isn't it because they are scum that don't want the loss to count against their "record"?

Are you seriously going to attempt to convince anybody that replacing out of a game is scummy?

Thanks

@Viomi, can I just suggest you read from Day 2 onward. It's still a good handful of pages but it's not 120 of them.
You can go back and source as needed but with Quick and Alisae gone there's a good deal less jabber, plus some of our lurkers/VLA players post sometimes.

[Whiskers]

"G-giving you information might.. influence you! Yeah! That's why I don't want to give my reads or reasons!"

K

dammit

if you were attacking somebody else i'd probably think this was annoying but i feel pretty vindicated here seeing you sass nero. :p

Wait, Lucky2u is still in this game with 15 shitposts?

VOTE: Lucky2u

This other shit can wait until tomorrow.

Also, lucky replaced in. (but you probably are told this while I'm reading these last 10 pages)

Whines about me not reading 128 pages, can't even read the post I quoted immediately before his post..

6 mins just feels like a short time for you to read his post then read a 200+ post ISO. *shrugz*

also Lucky is prob town. So far you are 0 for 3.

holy _shit_ you are dumb.

I am constantly talking about my reads and how I see the game. If you are gonna talk shit maybe you should read and get your facts straight?

Yes but I like reasons. Reads without reasons are boring and too easy to fake.

yaaaaay

scumcoach this WHOLE town please.
like, that's not an accusation, this fucking town needs to go the fuck back to

Rome.

[Whiskers]

@MOD: replace me

I wish i could perdure this completely disatrous town

but i wont, i cant deal with the like of 2mill. I have exams coming up for my phd so cya guys good luck 2mill

Also I believe Joey scum slipped on the way out. He says that bolded line like he isn't part of town.

Town also refers to the whole of the players in the game. Mafia and VTs alike make up "The Town."

You don’t have to be a prick about it tho.

And what whisker reads??? He doesn’t post any and is refusing to vote! Biggest scum tell ever.

I hadn't noticed this... Quickly scanning ISO, I don't have a grasp on his reads either. He could vote anywhere.

I

could

vote anywhere. But I haven't yet.
I didn't refuse to vote so much as I'm looking for a good place to put it. Would be easy to vote for Alisae/Math slot, or for Axel. I'm working up the courage to make a case on Axel but it's not my #1 priority in life.

my reads haven't changed considerably from when I posted them, (a little bit, but not considerably), because there hasn't been much action since then.

It's wildly anti-town to discredit the clears,

To be honest, they do a pretty fucking good job of discrediting themselves.

[Whiskers]

lol dead people's reads have the same margin for error as live ones

If that's an issue, then you should have a problem with 2Mil TIAM's post here:

One town player scumreading someone is a coincidence, two is a pattern.

Because it's basically saying the same thing. "Many town players scumread this slot! Therefore, it must be scum!"

[Whiskers]

The whole thing here is cute you can't just strongarm your made up assertions by being abrasive, it just makes you look like a jackass because your logic doesn't hold but your style of argument is to act like it does.

wow it's almost like half the town is doing the exact same thing with overly abrasive strongarm attempts but shitty reads and shitty logic

[Whiskers]

FUCKING SNIP

have you ever considered trimming down the posts you're replying to in order to highlight relevant information

[Whiskers]

@Whiskers -- I am thoroughly convinced the case against you is noise and Lucky + Flubber are a team. However I have found that it's generally better to explain my scumreads than defend my town ones.

Defending my town ones ends up with stopping people from making that read themselves. Instead I would rather point out how Lucky isn't reading and flubber is being well flubber.

Hey wow it's almost like

I don't like talking about my town reads in case they are wrong. If you push me on it, I'll talk about it but I don't think it's a good idea for town to tell unconf players that might be scum what they are doing right to get a town read from them.

[Whiskers]

lol dead people's reads have the same margin for error as live ones

If that's an issue, then you should have a problem with 2Mil TIAM's post here:

One town player scumreading someone is a coincidence, two is a pattern.

Because it's basically saying the same thing. "Many town players scumread this slot! Therefore, it must be scum!"

I have a problem with his entire read on that slot

in that case, have you considered voting TIAM?

[Whiskers]

lol dead people's reads have the same margin for error as live ones

If that's an issue, then you should have a problem with 2Mil TIAM's post here:

One town player scumreading someone is a coincidence, two is a pattern.

Because it's basically saying the same thing. "Many town players scumread this slot! Therefore, it must be scum!"

I have a problem with his entire read on that slot

in that case, have you considered voting TIAM?

In that case, if your Town Mason Buddy is also doing it, is that alignment indicative?

EBWOP

[Whiskers]

For those you playing along at home. What whiskers is saying here is that its incredibly ironic that MATHblade attacked me for not wanting to defend my town reads and then said he doesn't want to defend his own.

it's less ironic and more hypocritical. It's confirmation bias but I'm looking for more ways to read this slot as scum (most of my read is left over from Alisae).

[Whiskers]

gerry
who to vote?

[Whiskers]

gerry
who to vote?

gery
hoo 2 voat

ebwop

[Whiskers]

vote lucky

: (
i don't want to vote lucky, the reason he's being scumread is 'cause activity with all new ideas 'cuase he just read and town is inactive af
what about

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, your coming across more town in that catch up spam but I still don't like that aren't clear about your reads and despite being present and active you aren't voting or pushing strongly in one direction. Can you help me town read you before I go?

my reads are mostly the same as yesterDay, with the following adjustments:
townreads are quickly decaying on bee and turtle for inactivity.
In addition to it being inherently anti-town, it's pretty important to realize there is scum within lurkers.
axel has slipped out of my town category into null or possibly even scum. Pending investigation.

[Whiskers]

How has nobody before Gerry asked me this question?

i personally don't think it matters too much what your read on yourself is.

[Whiskers]

It's really strange that someone can shitpost for 120+ pages and then blame the mod for people not being interested enough to keep up.

eat actual shit

Let's talk about an actual post that looks like fake anger

The tone is discordant with whiskers' surrounding posting, and he's offended on another player's behalf. Um?

I'm not offended "on another players' behalf," I'm offended on MY behalf, and I was avoiding explaining to you previously but now I'm in it, so I guess I'm in it.
Joey hasn't been shitposting, he's been one of the most prolific

town

voices in the entire game and you handwaving all of this as shitposting is a joke. Your own posts are one line each and snarky as fuck, you've done nothing the entire game. You're a shitty person.

Joey wasn't blaming the mod. He wasn't accusatory or challenging.

Shiro was V/LA for

THE ENTIRE DAY 1

and I fucking agree, how is that ok? Because he extended his V/LA? Yeah, pie is right, that's technically within the rules, to extend V/LA indefinitely forever, and the mod is allowed to honor that extension but there's nothing fucking wrong with being incredulous that we are ABSENT a PLAYER for the entire DAY. FURTHERMORE, SHIRO ISN'T EVEN HERE NOW, WE'RE JUST COMPLETELY OUT A PLAYER/SLOT, IT ISN'T PROVIDING CONTENT, IT CANNOT BE READ, AND WE JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT.

Joey going "hey mod wtf" is completely reasonable, js.

meanwhile,

People are just pointing at things and saying "that's fake"

Just like every instance of anybody telling me my anger is faked. Just like anybody in this game telling someone else that anything is faked. you're kind of a fucking hypocrite and kind of a fucking asshole and I think you should probably eat a whole bunch of actual shit.

[Whiskers]

ah, and it "doesn't match the tone of the surrounding posts" because I'm mad at

you

idgaf about anybody else. go die.

[Whiskers]

Add flub to my scum reads

Vote: Flubbernugget

fine.

[Whiskers]

I've heavily considered taking an escape pod out of this game tbh.

Can we just suicide pact out of this thread at this point

How about we just lynch scum and not quit?

because we're dealing with insufferable buffoons.

some are only one or the other.

[Whiskers]

I love that that people insist that I am "obnoxious and wrong" on everything but I have yet to actually be wrong I have actually been right.

YOU FUCKING SPENT PAGES ACCUSING CABD OF BEING A BIZARRE MAFIA DAY KILL ROLE YOU IDIOT

I see you are picking up where Joey left off on taking the role of the immature brat.

It's called reaction testing. I knew Cabd wasn't being 100% truthful, but I said in thread that he was town. What role we think he does or doesn't have doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things on day 1.

Hey wow that sounds like a good reason not to spend pages talking about his role (like an idiot)

[Whiskers]

Not only did he mention more than just Whiskers, he also said his reason for not choosing Flubber is because almost every one of his scumreads is on the Flubber wagon.

So, yes, it very much so looks like an attempt to say he doesn't want Flubber lynched without out-right saying it.

I scum read IAI because I read his scum reads as town ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also I didn't scum read Viomi regardless of her read of me

I can handle this. Consider me in favor.

I mean if you townread everyone except 3~4 people, you can just say "hey I don't townread this guy so this guy is scum" ya know

I mean, you can, but if you townread everyone except 3~4 people, your reads are probably wrong and you should do some digging.

Why is whiskers so impossible to lynch then!?!!

Maybe you should try making a case on me, nobody has yet.

HST, who is scum again? 3-5 names

None of the names you listed.

like this is the unhelpful type of post I expect scum to make.

that's the unhelpful type of post we got from quick and p much every other asshole in this game.

like i'm not gonna go dig for specific examples but i bet IaI, TIAM, Flubber, and Nero have made this kind of useless, unhelpful post throughout the course of the game.
hell, you policy lynched quick for them. is it scumtelling?

[Whiskers]

Add flub to my scum reads

Vote: Flubbernugget

fine.

Why did you vote in this manner. You already seemed reasonable likely to vote flubbed based on previous posts and then you follow Nauci of all people's scum read to vote flubber even though nauci is actually voting me. This was ugly.

what's wrong with following nauci "of all people"
what makes you think I'm "reasonably likely to vote flubber" and if that was the case, then why wouldn't something like this be a fine reason to finally do so?

[Whiskers]

What would also help a little is, don't be LAMIST if your scumreads are composed of town, there's like 4 people this applies to. The second thing that would help is, not scumreading MathBlade.

who are you talking to
what is "lamist"

[Whiskers]

Forgive me, I can't quote while the thread is locked so I've just linked everything to the best of my ability.

post 1376
post 1000

Whiskers (5) - Flubbernugget, Nero Cain, Alisae, beeboy, Quick

This was my wagon at it's largest, during Day 1, before the vig shot happened. (the first VC to display it was in post 1000, and it persistaed up until the dayvig shot.)
At this time, Nero scumread Quick (though this could just be a joke: a thousand posts later he says quick is mostly a townread), and scumread Alisae, but I can't find an easy post to quote.
Quick scumread Alisae.
Via this post, Flubbernugget scumreads beeboy, Two posts later is also worth looking at.
Closest reads list for beeboy is here, scumread Quick and "to a lesser extent" Alisae. Later, (Day 1.5) possible flubber OMGUS? not sure. Asks why flubbernugget scumreads him, but flubber never replies. No followup from Bee.
Why do I bring this all up? I think it's

very

interesting that there was so much dissent on this wagon (mine) and that, because of it, you're going to find 1 or 2 scum here after I flip green. You're not going to have all these

townies

who scumread each other sharing a unanimous scum read. You're going to have scum.

Flubbernugget flipped green, Alisae flipped green, Quick flipped green. Nero has been one of the most active players in the game, which comes off as scummy but realistically that's not actually the case; an active player is much more pro-town than an inactive one-- like beeboy, who has been riding his towncred out since the vig shot.

So here's an analysis of the votes from player who are still alive:

Nero's Vote on me was a blank vote with no other content in the text.
I had to do some digging, but his scumread apparently came from my dismissal of some earlier questions he asked. I feel like we've resolved the issue (that we disagree wrt lynching noobs for noobtells), but that, naturally, doesn't erase the scumread.

Beeboy's vote on Whiskers was purely sheeping Nero Cain. No explanation here, but after some prodding he revealed this: viewtopic.php?p=9677034#p9677034
"the policy lynching stuff about Quick" never happened-- I mentioned it off the cuff during a catchup post, and Alisae jumped on it and made a big deal out of it, then Quick fell into the same trap. Then "I agree with Alisae about the way you approached your read," which I largely handwaved at the time, because what Alisae had said was "It's scummy!" as usual, being extremely vague and giving no clear explanation as to

why

she thought that.
Beeboy made 16 posts all of Day 2. I understand there is a good deal of apathy from the slot but let's check 'em rq
post 2747 (ISO 247) He admits Quick was a policy lynch.
ISO #248: he agrees with Joey's reads (Axel/IaI/Flubbernugget)
ISO #249: He votes flubber, "I should have done this yesterday,
#250, "I am becoming worried about Nero's alignment"
#251, talk about Nero's reads in 2850
#252 filler
#253 prod dodge
#254 pokes Axel to start looking at him. Distraction?
#255 starts worrying about Axle "refraining about talking about me," soon after which Axel engages him.
#256 "approach axel? how do??"
#257 "I'm hungry and tired"
#258 filler
#259 "I hate this particular game"
#260 "I've thought about replacing out"
#261 "I'm gonna keep playing this game"
#262 Indefinite V/LA post
#263 reasonable unvote while V/LA though this means

he's not on the wagon when the lynch goes through.

So really, we only get ~6 solid posts out of Beeboy Day 2, if we're being generous.

[Whiskers]

I want to point out that while I'm aware of the confirmation bias, I still scumread Math.

Mathblade has never in this thread interacted with me in a critical manner and I think that's scummy as fuck.

viewtopic.php?p=9706881#p9706881
^Here he says "oh hey ur not scum lucky/flub is scum" and clearly we have a Flubbernugget town flip, so what's your master plan now?

So far his play has seemed really reactive, doesn't prod a lot, just goes with the flow of the game and responds occasionally. (This is Math's most proactive post in the game)

I want my townies to get a shovel and actually dig but that's not happening here. Is that alignment-indicative? No, probably not, but it's anti-town. There's been a lot of discussion on tactics or best play practises or whatever. There's been a lot of weak defense of me -- and I understand, the attacks are also weak, but the defense has the same problem. It's weak, not a lot of points to it, and the repetition and lack of new points on both sides are bad IMO.

I'm not seeing cases or even reasons on Flubber or Lucky (though the Lucky scumread seems to be that "Lucky is not reading! :O"), and afaict Lucky and Flubber scumreads, and Whiskers townread, are ALL OF MATHBLADE'S READS.

Consider that this is Alisae's replacement. Alisae tunneled me almost all the way to lynch on shitty, faulty logic, cries of "ur emotion looks fake!" and sheer argument from repetition. That in itself was scummy enough to lynch. Now Mathblade is here and it's been nothing but a 100% townread on me, but hasn't actually ever interacted with me this game. It's all based on weak stuff like, "hmm, is it town or scum to out a PR breadcrumb?"

[Whiskers]

vote:Whiskers

@Nero, let's talk about Nauci

[Whiskers]

And I don't mean with regard to how new she is, I mean concerning her content in this game.

[Whiskers]

hey guys!

I'm scum reading Quick now. If he asks why then he's confscum b/c in his mind town aren't interested in things.

this was not all serious.

Nonetheless, my wagon Day 1 was made up of people who cross-read each other.

also why the self-vote?

I firmly believe I am currently the town's best lynch.

[Whiskers]

sure, let's talk about her.

I'm seeing a lot of this,

Nero (every other post makes me lean a different way, it feels like)
Whiskers (I have a weird gut feeling that scum is trying to drive this wagon though)

and this,

And I say that as someone who's been unable to scum read flub all game!

Nero (every other post makes me lean a different way, it feels like)
Whiskers (I have a weird gut feeling that scum is trying to drive this wagon though)

and this,

I have a dream

That someday

Conf town won't be so useless

(she's scum and trying to look busy)

2458 is fake dumbtell, imo

Holy shit I totally forgot lmaooooooo

Don't do drugs, kids

I had a ton of Benadryl injected before I made that post

[Whiskers]

sure, let's talk about her.

I'm seeing a lot of this,

Add flub to my scum reads

I'm slowly coming around on a flub lynch, I suppose.

I'm really not reading a scum flub but I read the flub wagon as mostly town so I guess I'm 15% willing to hammer if it comes down to it?

and this,

And I say that as someone who's been unable to scum read flub all game!

Nero (every other post makes me lean a different way, it feels like)
Whiskers (I have a weird gut feeling that scum is trying to drive this wagon though)

and this,

I have a dream

That someday

Conf town won't be so useless

(she's scum and trying to look busy)

2458 is fake dumbtell, imo

Holy shit I totally forgot lmaooooooo

Don't do drugs, kids

I had a ton of Benadryl injected before I made that post

EBWOP

[Whiskers]

My point:

I dunno. I recall a game where Yos posted like the day after his wedding, and I took that as a pretty huge towntell. Generally, I think posting is a towntell if doing nothing is a perfectly viable option, especially if what is said is controversial and/or might piss people off.

And it's actually fairly easy to tell a player who doesn't have a lot of time, but tries to make what they do say relevant, from a player who's using lack of time as an excuse to not contribute. Even more so coming off V/LA.

We're getting a lot of weak, indecisive reads, a lot of fence-sitting, and a lot of filler.
I'm not seeing a lot of "relevant" posts.

[Whiskers]

ok sure. So you think she's scum now?

I think it's certainly a possibility. I recognize that a lot of my townread came from the fact that her reads aligned with mine and we matched up on the same side of the "PL noobs?" argument.

Also I recognize before that I had asked you if your read on her had changed or evolved since your early read on her. Has it?
I'm looking for a little more input from you than "ok, sure."

[Whiskers]

VOTE: Whiskers

still pending

continued answering rest of post 2382 still coming in next post (or there abouts)

My position on the relative merits of a Whiskers vs a Flub Lynch have not changed since yesterday.
And Whiskers is still IMO the best lynch, as they were yesterday

Summary of the case so far:

Spoiler: This bit is currently IMO irrelevant (posts 1-253) (24 whiskers posts)

In some large picture sense it may be relevant but it is not the heart of the issue.

TLDR:

I am going to ignore posts before 253 as kinda NAI.

These 24 posts (1-253) cover the followng topics.
UCV <<<< This bit I am going to excise. As for me it seems not only just NAI, but a read on the person not the role.
There existed the possibility it was being leveraged, I dont in any meaningful sense think so.
CABD (and speculation around the claim)(discussing its utility)

Good Play: 187. effort =/= town. But that felt like balanced push.

Statements about me(Axle), which if i get quote detached from it being about me, seem like stances players with town PMs took in the past.

There is an interaction with Joey (202 and on for bit) that I both like and dont like. I feel read that my dont like is wrong headed. Its D1, that Ok for a D1 push, with D1 levels of certainty.

And that is I believe most of whats in the first 24 whiskers posts most of the content is not making think yay town.
187 was something Ok

TLDR:

I am going to ignore posts before 153 as kinda NAI.

and yes (is some bizarro backwards way) despite being NAI, that it is NAI, and there isn't some other part of the ISO towning it up.

Is relevant.

(just not at all central)

You say this part is irrelevant, despite it being the more compelling portion of your case on me. Afaict, it amounts to "I have a gut feeling Whiskers is scum," which IMO is actually pretty weak.

The scum read comes from 253 onwards

The best partial explanation of what the scumread is based on is back here

Spoiler: quoted earlier wall

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to

Vote: Axle Greaser

for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating. Was going to hop on Ali wagon but this is insufferable. Meanwhile,
FOS Cabd for the soft Vig/SK claim, FOS UC Voyager for the

overt

SK claim, which, while I don't buy (because he claimed "Town-Aligned SK"), regular SKs, and Day-Vigs (where being one doesn't necessarily clear him) are quite likely, and I think it's a breadcrumb.

Ahh, it's all coming back to me now...

I am not seeing the scum motivation here to outing Cabd as some crumb. So someone explain to me why the whiskers wagon is a thing?

...People on the Whiskers wagon explain this please.

Damn. I tried putting the reasons here, but nested spoilers dont work.

My reasons are in 2142

In it is part of an ongoing discussion with Whiskers about his posts.
The TLDR is now here in bold.

I have some other issues with your ISO, back in the range From about 253 Onwards.

Spoiler:

defending self example

(see spoiler in the link)


Spoiler:

Filler

(see spoiler in the link)

Basically, I see you playing in the thread in that part of the game, dont see your towny intent.

My question I suppose is can you explain whats going on so I see the towny intent?

And so far, I haven't manage to see that range of posts (from the quoted one on up to his reads list) as having towny intent.
and my problem with that was there were so many opportunities to ask questions probe and try to find things out but it just kept not happening.

and yes it is a judgement call, but I still see them as the best most likely to flip scum wagon.

But you may need to read 2142

@Thread

Yes that is fuck tonne of words (when you open the

second

spoiler and read the link (esp 2142) all in one post.
Pull up the activity count, no I have no buried you with words, (high post count) do me the bloody courtesy of reading the ones I do say. Ta tia.
If you dont understand bits of it talk to me. AND say things when you do, when i see what bit you don't understand, I have a much better chance of working out how to explain the point differently. Generic talking such as, "Axle you're full of shit", really wont be a way to start a good faith discussion.

Axel, you're full of shit.

In the second half of your case here, you say, "Ah, whiskers is defending herself!" which is not alignment indicative, and then, "Ah, whiskers has some filler posts!" which I don't believe is alignment indicative either, especially considering the majority of my posts are

not.

Putting a vote on me after a weakass case like this is pretty bad.

From a sheer content perspective, however, I don't think Axle is scum.
I find him annoying, but with a fresh brain I can read his posts, which tells me that I'm just too stupid to be bothered most of the time. It tells me that

the attempt is there,

which is more than you can say for most players here.

[Whiskers]

VOTE: lucky

Give me a little more than that, I'm doing some digging right now.
What's the case here?

[Whiskers]

Spoiler:

Gerry is just trash tier player.

I think one of the monkeyman alt (2iaM) and UC are bad and one is new.

I'm still not over CABD not really trying to influence the lynch but w/e. His 2iam vote was bad.

I'd be kinda down with a Nauci wagon. Like I get the reasoning and all.

This is on page 20^ I think it refers to when Dunk and Alisae voted Nauci when she jokeposted that she'd PL lurkers in a post on page 16

I think that my biggest problem with Nauci is that her first post was mainly CABD related and that feels like a safe conversation to hang her hat on.

vote: Nauci

I think that my biggest problem with Nauci is that her first post was mainly CABD related and that feels like a safe conversation to hang her hat on.

vote: Nauci

and to add to this, she has an anime avatar and I'm always up for lynching those people.

that Nauci took a more "Cabd is town" approach from it which i kinda liked more

like I get the whole "CABD is a killing role he's town." (day sk? lol) but if Nauci is scum wouldn't "CABD is town!" stance be a good way to get town cred?

lol if Nauci is scum and switched her avatar to not anime thinking it might make me less likely to lynch her.

@nero who do you think the "second lynch" should be? Or rather, who do you think the two lynches, in no particular order should be?

I've already kinda answered this. I am voting Nauci.I said I wouldn't really oppose a lynch on 2iam. I', also considering a policy lynch on the miller claim and Axel feels like he's active lurking. I'd prob be ok with any of those.

If you notice something about my play that peaks your interest, do ask questions.

sure, why was it scummy that I was pushing CABD?

Nauci is noob. if you still think she's a problem, attempt lynch tomorrow. Not inherently scummy nor more scummy than many we've seen.

she seems more newb than noob but why should I not push her today but pushing her tomorrow is ok?

Why did you decide to answer my question with a question?

(also recapped in Post 2390

##############

This is p much every post regarding Nauci up until (and including) the one where I told you to drop it, I don't see a lot of good reasoning.

You mention that you like the "wagon"

(

which started because she made a post in favor of PLing

,

but I was willing to discount this because it was practically still RVS,

and I don't think alluding to a PL is a scummy thing-- for reference, I did it too).

You say she posted regarding Cabd

(

which, to be fair, everybody was,

) and say

it's a "safe" post

((although just from these posts we can see that Axle was calling your own discussion of Cabd scummy, so it sounds like a similar attack?)), and

You say she has an anime avatar.

I didn't see anything really strong or scum leaning from her. I think that Nauci has been posting consistently, and that now we have enough information to see a trend:

Nauci makes safe posts.

Green = reasons to lynch/SR Nauci

Red = counterpoints to those reasons

I want to re-assert that it wasn't a hard defense "because she's town," but a shelving of the slot because I didn't feel we had enough content to use to read her by. After that we seem to share a lot of reads (Joey, for instance, was a pretty good townread most of the game for both), and make a lot of the same arguments (and most of them against you, lynching noobs). I think it's natural to have a good feeling about someone who thinks the same way you do, but seeing Nauci remind us in every post that "This isn't alignment indicative, I just agree," helped me to reevaluate my posts.

My "generally good feeling" about Nauci doesn't actually amount to a townread.

[Whiskers]

Going "I'M NEW HAHA IT WOULD JUST BE

TOOOO

EASY TO MISLYNCH ME! BECAUSE I'M SOOOOO NEW HAHA!" means that you're self aware that you're scummy and are trying to avoid lynch for it.
Instead, don't be scummy? new =/= town???

I want to point out that Nauci is even newer than VC Voyager.

Oh the irony.

Disingenuous, or just dumb? Invoking your own inexperience to defend yourself = scummy. Invoking someone else's inexperience to defend them = not.

Alisae and beeboy, why do you SR quick

Not liking beeboy's scum read of TIAM and Nauci, but less for Nauci, but when jumping off TIAM it's quickly on to quick. Totally bypassing Nauci. Curious to see interactions between between these two and whiskers here on out.

This is an interesting post.

Crap I thought Nero asked why you townread whiskers...that’s what I want to know.

I mean.. it's pretty painfully obvious from his posts that he's been trying to get town to actually give information. I can follow his reads and I like his reasons for them. None of them feel forced and his interactions with my scumreads don't feel suspicious.

Pedit: lmao, not my fault you didn't read what you were quoting dude.

You don’t have to be a prick about it tho.

And what whisker reads??? He doesn’t post any and is refusing to vote! Biggest scum tell ever.

I disagree with this though. I had posted reads

relatively

recently, albeit during Day 1.5. They hadn't changed enough to warrant another reread/reads list. I never "refused to vote," my vote is my own and I can cast it when and where I please. Making a shitty, baseless vote is worse than holding my vote.

When I said I could be persuaded to vote whiskers or quick

I forgot to mention

COMRADES, JOIN ME ON THE GLORIOUS NERO LUNCH TRAIN

WE HAVE COOKIES

I have to be up for work in 3 hours for another 18 hour work day.

-Willing to vote UC, Quick, and HST, in that order.

-Could be talked into whiskers or Gerry with a convincing case.

-Voting for Quick because A: would give us the most info upon flip (I'm strongly of the opinion that he and flub are both town or both scum), B: would cut down the % of bicker posts that give me raw emotional facepalming hot takes that make me think less clearly, and C: I'M SO READY TO END D1 (but this one is only a minor influence because I think it's a shit reason to vote someone).

IMO HST has had a lot of filler and a bit of distraction posting upon ISOing.

Rhah, POST MORE.

How long before IAI or shiro replacements?

P.S. There's an *incredibly* small chance that Cabd is a FUCKING GENIUS with a VERY ABNORMAL role who is scum with Rhah and TIAM and has been playing us all like puppets. But I'm pretty sure dayshot is banned on scum. Still, I would be so happy if someone shot TIAM tonight on that .00001% chance.

Yeah Whiskers is where I'd expect him to be. Willing to bus, I mean vote, but need to be convinced, AKA lot of pressure on him before I'll hop on too.

Less sure of HST as a 4th scum. Doubt rookie Nauci goes and sticks to teammates in his top 5 lynch candidates.

I find it interesting that IaI's scumreads are Whiskers/Beeboy/Nauci/

HST

.
And in this post we see Nauci's acceptible lynches are UC/Quick/

HST

/Whiskers/Gerry

Which isn't to say that this is IaI being scum with Nauci, but more that Nauci is copying town's generic reads.

In conclusion:

I think IaI is an asshole but in reading his ISO I think he's got reads in the right direction, barring, naturally, HST and me.
I would like to see him put his aggression toward finding scum, not just snapping at people.

Why is whiskers so impossible to lynch then!?!!

for instance, if you'd ever tried to lynch Whiskers beyond going "OMG LYNCH WHISKERS" you'd probably have lynched Whiskers by now.

I do want to point out though, IaI, that the entirety of your case on me (as presented to the Town) was based on wagon analysis. Not the most concrete thing in the world and I'd love to see something else to back it up. You kind of just tried to pull Arguement from Repetition and that's scummy and antitown and

if you're town you can do better,

so do better going forward.

[Whiskers]

Says the guy who:

1) votes himself to start this day
2) decides to start playing the game after nothing D2.

Your actions D2 (lack of play)

whuh?

speaking of UC V and reads,

You can follow this link to see the list of reads I posted Day 1.^

followed by start of D3 (when you knew you were going to be a big lynch target) just solidified it for me.

Oh, I know I'm the lynch today. I figure there's no point in holding out here, so I'm playing my hand. When I flip green you're going to have to like, start shooting straight.

@IaI: what do you think of Mathblade? On a crtl+F I see you haven't said anything about the slot (Alisae nor Math).

[Whiskers]

Accidentally didn't post this:

Is there a reason that you didn't say anything about this?

If you're asking me, I missed it. There's a lot in this thread. IaI could be anything-- while I think his caustic tone keeps him out of "safe posts" territory, when I read his ISO he's had points of view I'm just now coming around on myself. I might look over him again with a fresh brain for tone, but I'm not actually that good on reading for tone...

I attempted to reread the entire thread during lock...

Instead of doing that, have you managed to complete your ISO of me? I know you've tried several times but have had physiological matters prevent you from finishing.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, don't self vote please.

I considered holding my vote to self-hammer, but I feel like that removes the possibility of wagon analysis.


Why aren't you voting me?

[Whiskers]

I'm considering it if you don't start playing better.

I think you're town based on the wagons against you.

I don't think anything is going to get done until I'm lynched. I'm reaaaaal easy lynchbait, to the extent that we're going to see a "why isn't whiskers lynched yet" conversation every Day, and a major Whiskers-voting faction, until it happens. Does it make more sense to clear it out of the way now, or wait until LyLo?

[Whiskers]

Plus Mathblade is using it as a smokescreen.

[Whiskers]

like tbh all I see when I read Lucky is Lucky's IMMEDIATE distancing from UC Voyager's play, and Mathblade defending me without being willing to build a case on me (the townread) or anybody else (his scumreads).

Scum is driving the Whiskers wagon, to me, so no.

Name that scum off to me. I analyzed the original wagon, of those players there's only two remaining alive. Who is driving the Whiskers wagon right now?

[Whiskers]

Tell me like I'm an idiot, because that's not entirely wrong.

I ask because I want to do some digging.

[Whiskers]

I don't like how everyone is--

I don't like how

you

haven't made a case or pushed a read all game.

[Whiskers]

Really?

Are we in the same game?

Like I have been explaining my townreads all game. I am l--

You haven't been

pushing

your

reads

.
Yeah, you've been "explaining your townreads," that's not scumhunting. Lean on your fucking scumreads? Except that you don't have any.

[Whiskers]

Town should never think that lynching themselves is "the best move for town"- If you're town, then the best move is getting suspicion off yourself and helping get us more information off other wagons and finding scum.

The game is going to be at a complete standstill without a whiskers lynch.

[Whiskers]

almost forgot about this,

Okay, why did he hammer himself? I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do that as town.. :L

It was to avoid a NL as the Daylight dwindled.
I hope I don't have to explain to you why it was a better move than letting us NL.

[Whiskers]

Unvote

That's not true, it's early in the day but it should still be noted no one's pushed you more than you.

Look, you've got like three or four--

(then I decided to actually go find out who)

For the love of all that is holy please lynch whiskers tomorrow or you'll probably end up suffering a perfect town loss.

scum self-hammering is a thing so idk. If he does flip VT then we are deff lyncing Whiskers.

Eh, I remembered more people being up for the immediate Whiskers lynch Day 3. In retrospect, this is all I find.

In addition to that, you've got

Nauci, who has left her read of me open the entire game
beeboy, who has dropped votes on me for no reason at all,
Gerry, who was easily convinced by an Axel case,
Axel himself, who has made and pushed a weak case, then mysteriously backed off on it when Gerry sheeped him on it,
Mathblade, who has townread me for no reason-- and arguing that read makes up the majority of his content
Lucky & Viomi, the replacements, who are perfectly happy to hop onto this lynch, (and there's apparently good sauce between me and Viomi's slot, via Joey),

And most importantly, IaI, who goes, "Whiskers is impossible to lynch!" That's going to persist until I am lynched, and if scum have me all the way to MiLo then I'm a real easy WIFOM mislynch, because everybody but Math and, apparently now Tiam, have a null-or-scumread on me. And I'm fully expecting that Math-read to go 180 degrees when it becomes convenient.

I have a history to link with every slot except possibly Rhah, Shiro, and UCV/Lucky, and I think town would be well served to analyze my flip.

Listen, if you

don't

think I'm Town's best lynch here, who

do

you think it is? I'd love to see you leading town.

[Whiskers]

like, let's say we lynch lurker Shiro today, just so as not to remove anybody actually playing the game from the example.
Today, there's gonna be a Gerry wagon and a Lucky wagon. When people express doubts on those, they will jump to Whiskers.
IaI will cry, "Why can't we lynch whiskers!?" and others will invoke Flubber's similar sentiment,
Nauci will say, "I've kind of been scum-leaning whiskers. I can't imagine that breadcrumb-share came from scum though!"
Nero will say, "Ew, Whiskers and Joey were totally buddies together!"
Finally, Lucky will be able to defend himself and Gerry will have given up on the game. Gerry will be lynched for bad posts that probably aren't AI.

And tomorrow it's the same, but we'll have
Math going, "Oh wow hmm I used to really think Whiskers was town because there was no case, but now, hm wow jeez"
Lucky will vote me as his only counterwagon
beeboy will leave a vote on me and replace out

honestly i'm just having fun imagining at this point but there's no content in this post so I'm abandoning it here.

[Whiskers]

I guess what I'm saying is that I want to lynch Mathblade.

Vote: Mathblade

idk. I think that after my lynch everything will be much smoother, that's all.

[Whiskers]

Hey, I am not lurking anymore, I simply dont have anything to talk about. I am here if adressed.

What is your read on MathBlade
What is your read on Shiro
What is your read on I Am Innocent
What is your read on Nero Cain
What is your read on Rhah
What is your read on AxleGreaser
What is your read on beeboy
What is your read on Lucky2u
What is your read on Viomi
What is your read on gerryoat
What is your read on Whiskers
What is your read on Nauci
What is your read on TwoInAMillion

why?

[Whiskers]

I guess what I'm saying is that I want to lynch Mathblade.

Vote: Mathblade

idk. I think that after my lynch everything will be much smoother, that's all.

Ugh this recent stream from Whiskers is downright terrible. Whiskers is just going with what is popular to stick around and I happen to be a popular target that is new.

Scum are floating around wagons other than what the masons want and it looks like I am the new target. Scum Lucky starts it. Pocketed Whiskers continues it.

Yes, because I haven't been pushing your slot since before Dunk.

In the next post, Math is ignoring the fact that he misrepresented Lucky... Talking about townreads =/= saying who your townreads are.
Also This.

Swoosh!

finshed reading 152, will be back to read the rest!

[Whiskers]

I don't do things like everyone else. That isn't my style.

Ok, Quick

[Whiskers]

hi nauci, how is that lurking working out for you?

Don’t forget beeboy and Shiro (add her to my now list of 4 I’m willing to lynch today).

The fact none of these 3 have voted is crap to this point.

Whiskers whole “town needs to lynch me before lylo so I’m self voting” to quick jump off to another wagon at 1st opportunity was easily predicted.

Which means both math and lucky might both be town. Sorry to be the one to inform all the haterz.

So more whiskers votes please.

Wtf do you want from me dude. I'll go back on but people were giving me shit for it.

[Whiskers]

It's mafia's job to lynch town not town's job to lynch town. Who here would wagon Nauci btw?

maybe, but I think it's important to step on Math's balls until he makes a case.
same goes for Shiro, who is 100% active lurking.

[Whiskers]

@Axel
I think the point is that Gerry was being a shitty player, and he is a shitty player as town: therefore, it's not-telling here.
We'll reread his slot by his replacement, when it comes in. For now, maybe you should vote the person you think Gerry was bussing?

[Whiskers]

It's mafia's job to lynch town not town's job to lynch town. Who here would wagon Nauci btw?

maybe, but I think it's important to step on Math's balls until he makes a case.
same goes for Shiro, who is 100% active lurking.

same goes for beeboy.
Where is beeboy?

although I guess he

actually

has a V/LA.

@Bee: where do you stand on Mathblade, Nauci, and Whiskers?

[preedit]
I'll just go ahead and wait for mod to post votecount...

[Whiskers]

What i actually said 3922 was.

Felt just as plausible as a weak assed bus vote.

OR

as a lynch one more towny he wont be held accountable for vote.

So no my read on Gerry is independent of whether it was him bussing whiskers or him trying to hitch another consequence free ride on town lynch. just like he had been doing all game.
If my suspicion of him depended on you flipping scum and that being bussing then of course you would have to flip first. But it doesn't.

and now, as per 3922, Id like to know how that looks >obv town< to IaI

Yeah, but the reason you even scumread him was because he sheeped your vote onto

me.

Do you no longer scumread me? If that's the case, why? And if you

do

still scumread me, why is Gerry more likely scum? Why would you attack him for allegedly playing to his town meta, then replacing out?

Your read of him doesn't depend on me being scum, but you've never stopped scumreading me. There's no reason for you not to use his "consequence free ride" motivation to lynch me, your scumread.

I think your viewpoint is all fucked up:
So far from what you've said, you must think Gerry and I are scum, and he's bussing me? But like, if that were the case, you'd be just as happy to vote/lynch me today (or yesterday, when this started), and then use my scumflip to incriminate Gerry, right?

[Whiskers]

I haven't read anything, so I trust Gerry's read for now.

Gerry was lurking hella hard, he posted once in a blue moon with a one-line post, and never anything of content.
He did not give a shit about this game.

Lucky isn't scum because he came in and made a big catchup-post case. He's been largely active within the thread since then.

That doesn't make him not-scum, but it puts him in a slightly more pro-town position than your slot.

Does that adequately inform you?

[Whiskers]

gerryoat, MathBlade, and TwoInAMillion need to view Gerry's actions through the lens that he is town. I'm sure they'll connect the dots.

Also no offense but this "i'm town because i'm town" argument isn't going to go very far.

[Whiskers]

^Sorry about accidentally taking top of page :\

[Whiskers]

Wtf do you want from me dude.

Self vote or bus beeboy/Nauci.[/quote]
Remember how I started the day by self-voting and then trying to lean on Beeboy and Nauci? (and mathblade)

Whiskers iso is longer than some of my games I don't know if I have enough will power for this

oh shut

up

. You've been complaining about my ISO since it was 1 page. You read Quick's ISO, which is still longer than mine-- but he died Day 1 and I have been posting for 3.

Just scan it for shit you find interesting. If you can't

possibly

read that many posts, maybe instead look for an angle and then go looking through my ISO for evidence to support your theory?

Should I have to coach you for this?

But yeah, honestly, this "oh I coudln't

possibly

read Whiskers' ISO! It's only shorter than other ISOs I've done! I have a null read! I wouldn't dream of changing it!" looks a hell of a lot like bussing a scum partner and it's making me uncomfortable.

Vote: Nauci

If you can't provide a better case on someone else, and you can't provide an adequate defense,
Then take it like a champ and give us a final list of reads of analyze.

[Whiskers]

just saying you might want to look at more distant points on that line if you're going to VCA.^

He is being very adversarial, very defensive, trying to discredit obvtown, and his reads suck.

I'm pretty sure most people are happy to discredit you. Whether or not your results are accurate, the reasoning you use to get there usually looks pretty bad, plus you seem to swing around one way or another pretty easily.
If his reads suck, maybe he's Uninformed Majority, aka Town?
As for being Adversarial, he's not Quick.

[Whiskers]

EBOWP: my last post

[preedit]
Oh, you meant Viomi, not Nero.

Meh. I liked Joey for town.

[Whiskers]

Nauci not lynching (at all, today, I think?) is another red flag for scum, especially since it's 7 irl days in and she's been active

To be fair, not-voting one way or another is sometimes a good way to get people to back off your wagon.

Thing is, not a lot of people are asking Nauci questions, and nobody is really defending her. It's just like, a lynch going through.

Actually it's going really smoothly through.

Hm?

[Whiskers]

also who were the mason claims

Read.

i want to engage with math, because i can almost always decide their alignment upon engaging them.

Great, more meta bullshit.
incoming meta arguement followed by optional confirmation bias "case" with circular reasoning.

What's your record with math in games you've played with him Transcend?

well i personally think i'm good at ID'ing their alignment but they're terrible at ID'ing mine.

if i've been town in a game with them, most of the time i've been mislynched by them.

Sounds like standard human hubris.

mini normal 1900 is the biggest one. i was tr'd by pretty much the entire player list except math and they mislynched me in 3 way lylo

another one was an rc game where they hydra'd with jaereed. i got lynched d1. i was tunneled on their slot a bit but decided they were misguided town after quite some time.

Nice links.

[Whiskers]

oops, almost forgot

I think people confuse my reads with not being "well reasoned" with me not liking to wall post. My play style may not fit with the site meta but I think I worth listening to because I actually put in effort and have a good record.

No.

[Whiskers]

there's people i can only read by engaging with them on a personal level

THAT SHOULD BE LITERALLY EVERYBODY.

THIS ISN'T EPICMAFIA
THERE ISN'T A DISGUISER ROLE

YOU SHOULDN'T BE READING PEOPLE BASED ON META.

You should be reading them by engaging with them on a personal level, then considering whether their behaviour is suspicious and indicative of their alignment. Not "hey gee is this Mathblade? Hmm, yep, yep, looks like it's really Mathblade."
ya fuckin slur.

[Whiskers]

I think the instinct is for guys to be easier on girls, not that they have different tells. A lot of people believe that girls are more intuitive and empathetic, and thus maybe better at reading people, so maybe they might have more value. Also the male/female online ratio probably magnifies this. But logically I think a lot of this is a fallacy more than helpful in winning games.

If I were to throw my hat in, I'd say it's more about aggression. For example,

Wait Transcend that wasn't sarcasm? I thought you were just making fun of me for correcting you.

Are you saying that men usually are more gung ho and women less confident?

There's actually a lot of studies about how women use less gung ho language: instead of statements women are more likely to say "I think" or "I feel" or "in my opinion" type stuff. Not that I'm using this as a case for my innocence or anything.

this more feminine phrasing could be considered scummy, a player not willing to commit to their opinion.

Trust me the internet trend is *not* to be nicer to women.

well, "nicer" isn't exactly right...

I was talking about mafiascum, not the internet in general. I would like to think that mafiascum is better behaved than the internet at large.

o ___o

If it were "better behaved" then it probably wouldn't be "nicer" to one gender over another.

That's kind of wholly sexist.

[Whiskers]

Ohh look the player who scumslipped voted the player who pointed it out. Not OMGUS at all.

Transcend, so? I don't like how you're ignoring Smocaine's slip.

wew lad

Furthermore I don't like how this Nauci wagon started afterward.

Makes me think Nauci + Smocaine could be a thing with Smocaine scum PR.

???
Smocaine scumslipped, then a Nauci wagon started, therefore Nauci is scum with Smocaine? In what world does a caught scum build a counterwagon on

another

scum??? Wouldn't this be evidence that only

one

of them is scum??
Jesus

christ

man

I already answered this. Looks like Nauci is trying to save Smocaine. No problems voting either.

Nauci is trying to save Smocaine by having bad play from the start of the game? Damn, Nauci, your scumgame runs deep! Talk about the long con!

Scum bus a weak role to save a PR.

what?
where did you get your mafia degree?

Weren't people calling you good scum at some point? Can I get like, one example of you being good scum? Just for reference.

Because honestly if Mathblade is "good scum" this might be fucking town!blade.

[Whiskers]

So I agree Gerry normal play is quite laid back, lolsy, laissez-faire, and number of polite euphamisms, including coasting.

I disagree that is complete and accurate assessment of what happened in this game.

What I don't see in that meta is Gerry claiming to have found scum with some certainty, and then not crowing about it from the roof tops.

Ooh. Ok.

This is

much

better.

that being said i think your metadiving is probably town motivated and you're probably not manufacturing this

Yeah, this. Axel solidly town here IMO.

[Whiskers]

We're not lynching MathBlade.

This is the very first thing "masons" have come to a consensus on.
Why is that?

Maybe if you can come to a consensus on who to lynch and present a compelling case on them, we can lynch that person instead?

But nah

[Whiskers]

One of Transcend/Flairs is mafia maybe.

I was willing to wagon Transcend until I realized all his reads match up with mine.
I was willing to wagon Flairs before Flairs replaced into the slot and started acting town.

Now I'm willing to wagon Mathblade, have you considered a Mathblade lynch?

[Whiskers]

Sometimes it makes me think that it's a Whiskers/Math team. I mean if Math felt like this was a good reason for why Flubber was scum I'm not really sure why Math doesn't think this is reason to suspect Whiskers. That selective scumhunting is p scummy.

Right!? Fucking thank you!

I don't remember you bringing this up before (you say later in this post that you had alluded to it), but you know that thing you thought a Scum!Whiskers was doing with a Town!Nauci? That's what I think Scum!Math is doing here to me.

It's one of the best reasons I've kept a consistent scumread on him.

[Whiskers]

also are you from EM, if so who are you

I'm Whiskers on EM. I signed up before I jumped ship to a better username.

But I'm not "from" there, I'm from Myth-Weavers. My Whiskers account on there is banned, I'm pretty sure.

but re:quoted post,
yeah great, but you lead with a statement that said, "I have meta on Mathblade so if I do two sentences back and forth, I'll 100% conf-read their slot" and my sphincter is still clenched and waiting for you to go "ohoho, Mathblade is town! My super-good meta-reading sense told me!"

I'm still waiting.
I'm still clenched.

[Whiskers]

Not meta it's

"Math does questionable things as either alignment so i need to personally interact with them until I'm confident in what their alignment is".

isn't this true of literally every player ever

[Whiskers]

"math isn't a good scumhunter"

*math displays maybe flawed scumhunting/reads*

"Jesus math this sucks look at how mafia you are"





Which one is it. Math has progressions that are pretty genuine. Like where they thought Smocaine scumslipped. That wasn't fake. That's an example of a bunch of stuff that Math didn't fake.

I crossed out the one I didn't say.
Also I think I just recently said that the inverse of the third line could be true... But it was facetious, so.

Whiskers, do you suggest that Alisae's push on you was scum faking bullshit?

Yes.
Alisae's push on me was founded on the fact that I called Axel's first post or so "incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating," which somehow, allegedly, came off as a "faked reaction," or "faked anger" or some shit.

Then she quoted Joey_, who said of the same post that it was the "most cancerous shit he'd ever seen," which is very much a more violent reaction, but that

wasn't

faked, because she had meta knowledge of Joey, and that was in-character for him.

But had no good reply when I pointed out that she (having no meta knowledge of me) would have no way to know if my reaction was consistent with my town or scum play. Instead she just yelled and yelled about how I was scum. Alisae's push on me was primarily argument from repetition.

And then the votes on my wagon came without reasons, came without cases.

It wasn't even "scum faking bullshit," it was just "scum yelling a lot."

[Whiskers]

I'm not a sexist rofl

Girls and guys play totally differently in this game

I.. seriously?

Alright, if I don't respond to this game for a while, don't blame me.

fuckign seriously dude

this is ridiculous
between you and nauci and mathblade

who gives a flying fuck

who the fuck gets mad over gender

jesus fucking christ

It's not discrimination rofl

I have had these gender alignment tells for years. I've played several mafia games. I know how the stereotype male and the stereotype female play the game. This isn't sexism, it's literally the nature of both genders in a setting like this.

I will call bullshit on this though.

For one, it literally is discrimination. Whether or not that's bad is up to each individual person to decide.

But more pertinent: You claim you've "had these gender alignment tells for years," but a few posts ago you told us you don't actually know any female scumtells. If you knew so intimately, for so many years, both male and female play, beyond some vague, nebulous concept of gender psychology, you'd

have

female scumtells.
And your posts would look a helluvalot better than they do presently.

[Whiskers]

Like, you point out that what he's saying and the ideas he's spouting are inherently sexist, but then go on to say "I know you're not actually sexist, even though you're spouting sexist bullshit"

This is detracting from the game and I'd rather be hunting scum.

PEDIT: You didn't say most. You said "Boys wear dresses because that's masculine nature" and yes, it's sexist as fuck

idk about you but i was brought up in a sexist society, where like, gender norms exist

or actually genders at all exist. lemme tell you what's sexist. Having Gender.

[Whiskers]

oh nvm, the mod posted
-___-

uuuugh

[Whiskers]

I get it, all you fucks want to have a competition to see who can have the most outdated views on gender possible, please go back to your alt-right forums and keep it out of my fucking mafia games

what

how is considering gender roles to be sexist an outdated view? what i'm proposing is more akin to an individualistic

anarchy

. as someone who has to come to terms with how to identify myself, i think about it a hell of a lot.

like, idk, maybe we should take this out of the thread, but

Spoiler:

i have to consider that being "transgendered" is inherently sexist and that to wish to identify as one gender or another, that a person is really identifying with a set of traits usually ascribed to that gender.

in other words, a man can wear a dress, but that's not the norm-- someone who identifies as a man isn't going to do so because he wants to wear a dress. he's going to do so because he wants to drive a motorcycle. of course, a person of either gender can wear a dress or drive a motorcycle. but it's the set of traits that define a gender.

it is something i have to consider.

[Whiskers]

A lot of the reasons were because so many town got lynched in apparent counter wagons to you and this has been stated to death so please GTFO with the "no one says why I'm being FOSed shit please and thank you

Yeah maybe, but not when Alisae was still in the game.
And I what I mean is in the original Whiskers wagons, all the votes came without explanation. Long before we had any flipped counterwagons to analyze.

unvote

(pressure vote has served its purpose, i think)

Vote: Mathblade

Whiskers, how uncomfortable are you with dying again? I looked at Alisae's push on you. It's not that super great. But I think their read may have just gotten locked on you.

Go for it. If my flip will help you secure a Mathblade lynch, I'm down.
Let me know if you want me to self-vote.

[Whiskers]

Telling someone to get hit by a car is completely uncalled for and this site has 0 tolerance for it

ah, can it already.
don't intentionally antagonize, it just makes you an asshole.

[Whiskers]

Being transgender isn't sexist, you dumb fucking cunt

ftr that's a conversation i'd love to have
because being convinced of this would solve a lot of issues for me.

[Whiskers]

I'm not intentionally antagonizing

She literally wished death upon me....

ok and?
going "ohoho, but

your

post is bannable! GOTCHA!" to someone who is upset and/or offended is pretty shitty.

[Whiskers]

@rhah
are we doing this

vote: viomi

[Whiskers]

i'll check back in before i turn in for bed.

[Whiskers]

Being transgender isn't sexist, you dumb fucking cunt

ftr that's a conversation i'd love to have
because being convinced of this would solve a lot of issues for me.

What the fuck caused all this? Reading now.

meh.
it'll probably just make you replace out too.

[Whiskers]

Being transgender isn't sexist, you dumb fucking cunt

ftr that's a conversation i'd love to have
because being convinced of this would solve a lot of issues for me.

What the fuck caused all this? Reading now.

meh.
it'll probably just make you replace out too.

in other words, i wouldn't read this exchange, if i were you.
you seem not to be resigned to a meaningless life of self-hatred so you'll probably just want to avoid it.

[Whiskers]

lets save pie from a new replacement and rope Viomi

[Whiskers]

Can we all just get along and play mafia?

read 4141 and give me your words

@Mathblade
Here is 4141 for you.

[Whiskers]

Yo Viomi I know it's a long fucking shot but
Send me a PM sometime because, like I said,
It's a conversation I'd like to have.
I'm truly open to having my mind changed about this,
but it's not the conclusion I came to on my own, or in discussion thus far.
So I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

[Whiskers]

...Yet.

[Whiskers]

@Math

more misrep. Never said anything about Math not thinking like that. I said that Math applying that to Flubber but not Whiskers is selective and scummy.

I don't remember you ever refuting this, for instance? All I remember is that you didn't see the reason for the votes on me, and didn't see a case, and so no case = no scum.
Or something along those lines.

Why this counterwagon stuff though?

But she's getting site banned so lol

hot diggity damn, you're worse than quick, arne't you?

[Whiskers]

But there's outstanding circumstances

you do seem to be standing out quite a bit, yes.

[Whiskers]

@Math

more misrep. Never said anything about Math not thinking like that. I said that Math applying that to Flubber but not Whiskers is selective and scummy.

I don't remember you ever refuting this, for instance? All I remember is that you didn't see the reason for the votes on me, and didn't see a case, and so no case = no scum.
Or something along those lines.

Why this counterwagon stuff though?

Yes I already did.

There is no contradiction only the one Nero made up.

Furthermore even if there was a contradiction (of which I disagree) Flubber flipped Town. This would also make you Town. So I don't want to respond to Nero's bullshit as he tunnels me every fucking game we are in. This is not becoming another Civ Mafia.

But you were pushing Flubber because he was the counterwagon. Despite the fact that he flipped Town, you couldn't have known at the time (unless you're scum), so why did you push flubber for being a counterwagon, while ignoring the fact that I was a counterwagon?

[Whiskers]

@Math

more misrep. Never said anything about Math not thinking like that. I said that Math applying that to Flubber but not Whiskers is selective and scummy.

I don't remember you ever refuting this, for instance? All I remember is that you didn't see the reason for the votes on me, and didn't see a case, and so no case = no scum.
Or something along those lines.

Why this counterwagon stuff though?

Yes I already did.

There is no contradiction only the one Nero made up.

Furthermore even if there was a contradiction (of which I disagree) Flubber flipped Town. This would also make you Town. So I don't want to respond to Nero's bullshit as he tunnels me every fucking game we are in. This is not becoming another Civ Mafia.

But you were pushing Flubber because he was the counterwagon. Despite the fact that he flipped Town, you couldn't have known at the time (unless you're scum), so why did you push flubber for being a counterwagon, while ignoring the fact that I was a counterwagon?

the problem isn't that "all counterwagons flipped green and you pushed one" it's that your reasoning, which

should

apply to both cases (mine and flubber's), for some reason didn't apply to both cases.

[Whiskers]

...d and vote for you because you are not actively serving town's best interests. You can say who you targeted so I can evaluate your claim. If you refuse until your replacement my vote will pretty much be stuck.

???

you realize that's a threat thatdoesn't have any weight, assuming Viomi no longer gives afuck about this game.

Also you realize it doesn't make much sense anyway, considering an upset Viomi isn't going to be indicative of alignment and that the replacement is going to have exactly the same information that she will.

[Whiskers]

like, viomi telling you or the replacement telling you is going to have no bearing on the slot's alignment. if anything, it'll be harder for a replacement to fake it.

the main downside to this is that somebody is gonna have to replace in, and that's terrible.

[Whiskers]

The lovely Mathblade wagon is my brainchild. Scum have a lot of influence in this gamestate. We need like all of the town to lynch mafia. Thinking I'm a bussing scumbuddy doesn't help us reach a town bloc. I doubt scum has much of a reason to at this point anyway.

Um, excuse me?

[Whiskers]

I could see the MathBlade and Lucky interactions around 3856 as town v. scum. Not entirely sure which is which yet though. But the interaction in general and the way they come out of it seems like a scumread scum is trying to drag a scumread town with it. Or maybe it's scumread town scumreading scum and trying to drag them down. Idk. I need to look into it, I can only see it from the perspective of Lucky's ISO at the moment. What I'm trying to get at is that a flip from one could be really useful to get us knowledge about the other.

Thing is, Lucky did this-- explained he doesn't like to talk about his townreads, but said he

would

if people asked him to.
But Mathblade soon after declared that he wouldn't even

out

his own townreads, because he doesn't like to.

I'll grab relevant quotes after dinner if you think that's worth pursuing. Basically, Lucky did something you think is bad, and Math called him out on it-- and then Math himself did it in a way worse way.

[Whiskers]

I haven't read a thing from you on Mathblade. You were a wee vanity wagon before I deadass took credit for it.

It was

my

wagon though. You took credit for a wagon I made. Thanks

Huh. That would be worth a look if you can find any quotes

ok, here's the exchange:

Spoiler:

I am skipping over beeboy, Nero, HST, and Axle because they are furthest from the scum side of the spectrum for me and I don't like talking about my town reads in case they are wrong. If you push me on it, I'll talk about it but I don't think it's a good idea for town to tell unconf players that might be scum what they are doing right to get a town read from them.

This post had me laughing out loud. If the entire point of not talking about your town reads is wrong then you wouldn't have listed them as Town reads like what? Furthermore by not justifying your townreads you're not able to have them poked and prodded to see where they are wrong. Like...????

What??
Outting your townreads =/= writing out a lot of thoughts on your townreads.

My point is the "damage" by outing townreads would be done st that point. There is no reason that they shouldn't be expanded upon. There is no "damage" by talking about town reads hence the quotes.

@Whiskers -- I am thoroughly convinced the case against you is noise and Lucky + Flubber are a team. However I have found that it's generally better to explain my scumreads than defend my town ones.

Defending my town ones ends up with stopping people from making that read themselves. Instead I would rather point out how Lucky isn't reading and flubber is being well flubber.

But long story short,

@Whiskers -- I am thoroughly convinced the case against you is noise and Lucky + Flubber are a team. However I have found that it's generally better to explain my scumreads than defend my town ones.

Defending my town ones ends up with stopping people from making that read themselves. Instead I would rather point out how Lucky isn't reading and flubber is being well flubber.

Hey wow it's almost like

I don't like talking about my town reads in case they are wrong. If you push me on it, I'll talk about it but I don't think it's a good idea for town to tell unconf players that might be scum what they are doing right to get a town read from them.

For those you playing along at home. What whiskers is saying here is that its incredibly ironic that MATHblade attacked me for not wanting to defend my town reads and then said he doesn't want to defend his own.

[Whiskers]

Also Smo, you might want to read the above.

There you'll find "a thing" from Lucky on Mathblade. In fact, go back and read the whole set of pages this takes place during, it's a pretty good section IMO.

[Whiskers]

[Whiskers]

FUCK
DAMNIT

I'M AN IDIOT

[Whiskers]

Then this question to Nero. And sure he could be looking to settle? From exhaustion? And cant suggest to Nero a list including Nero.

Fine.

Which do you think is more likely to be scum,

Whiskers

, Nauci, or Transcend?

But
why

Whiskers

?
why nauci
What happened to

smocain

as an option?
Esp Given 20 mins earlier:

You won't get me for Whiskers. He's one of the only people making sense in this game.

TLDR: I cant find a line of reasoning (emotive or rational) whereby he didn't just straight somehow forget he recently claimed he would not be got to vote whiskers.

I think Viomis was not all that certain what Viomis reads were.
and then
Why even ask nero?

I like this.
this is a good catch. `

[Whiskers]

Joey not targeting Cabd is a definate scumtell. Viomi's ATE is a scumtell.

I don't want to lynch claimed power roles but in this case I'd rather lynch a claim power roll than have a probable townie have to claim. The only other lynches I am interested in is Nero, you and Lucky.

Lack of counter claim lends credence to it.

Spoiler:

Holy

Alright

Time to die

VOTE: Nauci

Nice. I like how it took you twenty minutes and four posts to come to this conclusion.

Good reasoning, too. I like it.
:thumbs_up:

I didn't realize we were so close to deadline. I'm still back about 15 pages, but for sake of keeping this going, I'm going to change my vote to consolidate to another of my Top 3:

If I'm not mistaken, the Day is locked at 48 Hours from Deadline until a replacement for Viomi is found (or we lynch). So we have potentially infinite time.

there's people i can only read by engaging with them on a personal level

You should be reading them by engaging with them on a personal level, then considering whether their behaviour is suspicious and indicative of their alignment. Not "hey gee is this Mathblade? Hmm, yep, yep, looks like it's really Mathblade."

This is a crap post.

I agree. Why'd you write such a crap post, Transcend? *shakefist*

Then IaI goes on to whine about more of my "crappy posting," I like how you list all the reasons why you think it's crappy and whine equally whenever other players make "crappy" posts, too.

I still don't know what you are saying with that post axel.

It took me a minute to figure it out.
Axel is saying he repeated the same thing Flairs did, though I think Axel's detail and isolation of the information made it noteworthy-- I paid attention and understood it when Axel said it, but I skimmed when Flairs did. It was just a couple lines in the middle of Flairs' post.

Also the bit about me being mixed up with Smocaine (this is the part that is confusing af) is because Smocaine took (undue) credit for the Mathwagon, and I was giving him (apparently undue) credit from that "good catch," I'd mentioned.

[Whiskers]

That wagon switched so quickly for what reason exactly? Had her scum on and off.

iirc a lot of us hopped off to vote Viomi to avoid replacement.
My vote is still there (I think), but I'll move it shortly.

So there's people here who actually believe Smocaine thinks Math is scum?

Is this implausible?

I feel like I missed something.

Nauci's really fencesitty a lot of the time. I think Axle's worse but I'll probably vote Nauci though. Viomi isn't scum.

???
Axel isn't "really fencesitty," though. He's just... foreign.

wew, Nauci wagon picked up again.

[Whiskers]

Based on, post 4478,

UPDATED VOTECOUNT: 3.17.01

Nauci (6) - Flairs, Nero Cain, Transcend, I Am Innocent, Lucky2u, TwoInAMillion

MathBlade (2) - Smocaine, Viomi
Viomi (2) - Whiskers, MathBlade
Whiskers (2) - , Rhah
Smocaine (1) - AxleGreaser
Flairs (1) - Nauci

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Whiskers]

sonovabitch

god's sake why can't i do any fuckin thing right jesus h.

[Whiskers]

[quote="In post 4596, Whiskers"]Based on, post 4478,

UPDATED VOTECOUNT: 3.17.01

Nauci (6) - Flairs, Nero Cain, Transcend, I Am Innocent, Lucky2u, TwoInAMillion

MathBlade (2) - Smocaine, Viomi
Viomi (2) - Whiskers, MathBlade
Whiskers (2) - , Rhah
Smocaine (1) - AxleGreaser
Flairs (1) - Nauci

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

use this one, it's prettier.

[Whiskers]

hey but hammer

wow and moonshoes

[Whiskers]

1. MathBlade
13. Viomi
14. Smocaine

there is atleast 1 scum here.

is there any mutual exclusivity here, or are these just your scumreads?

[Whiskers]

Vote: Nauci

I think we're done here.

[Whiskers]

@Nero: What's your scumread on axel from?

[Whiskers]

Vote: Viomi

Nero, talk to me about IAI and Axel. I'm scanning through and I don't see your reasons for either one of them.

[Whiskers]

Vote: Assemblerotws,

rather.

[Whiskers]

Is this you finally claiming?

[Whiskers]

I guess? It was kind of stupid not to do so while you still had someone around to back you up and confirm it, but regardless I don't think anybody's going to challenge you on it.

And if they do I suppose we lynch them.

Tell me, what do you think of Nero Cain? Not like, on a personal level, but do you think he's town or scum? Do you think he's a suitable Town-leader if this is, indeed, your last Day alive?

[Whiskers]

Maybe he jailed TIAM ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Whiskers]

I could massclaim. I don't see any harm in it, but I don't think it's going to change anything either.

[preedit]
fun fact:
everybody else is going to claim VT

[Whiskers]

. __.

[Whiskers]

jail masonsjailmasonsjailmasons

This is doubly true for jailing the

louder

better

mason.

VOTE: mathblade. When this reds Ima fos trans.

ok and why?

Because you suck at finding scum and strongarmed a not mathblade lynch.

To be fair, Rhah strongarmed a not-mathblade lynch.

[preedit] oops, this didn't go through, and also,

well i would've happily lynched math

but rhah kept white knighting them

[Whiskers]

ass'claim is 100% fake

why?`

[Whiskers]

[/b]unvote[/b]
Ok, so if it was a Scum JK, then we'd probably have one more Town PR, which would make massclaiming actually substantial. However, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to have a scum JK: Cabd was a Dayshot, and Masons aren't affected. So unless the last Town PR was a night role, and a strong one at that, there's no sense in a scum JK (already an unusual role to have in the first place.)

Therefore, if we assume the claim is true, then whether the choices Joey/Viomi/Assembler have made were beneficial to town or scum,

the slot must be town.

However, we've seen no actual evidence to conclude that the roleclaim is true, so I guess we're back where we started.

[Whiskers]

assembler is not a dumbfuck he's just scum

Then why would he not claim to have targetted the

other

mason?

[Whiskers]

@Assembler:
are you a dumbfuck y/n?

please answer carefully.

[Whiskers]

because he's not actually a town jailkeeper

i refuse to believe that he tries to block a kill here

yeah but why wouldn't Smart!Fake!Scum!Assembler, claiming jailkeeper, claim to have protected the wrong mason, clearly "the right move," while getting 100% more credit than the claim he gave.

mind you i'm not making an argument that he's town, I'm just saying I'm not sure he's as smart as you think he is.

[Whiskers]

You wouldn't trust a townie who has mislynched 8 days in a row. Why would you trust rhah Trans?

It's not a matter of fuckin trusting Rhah.
Do you notice how we didn't lynch Mathblade even though people

were

pushing it? I'm p sure Nauci was pushing it, I was pushing it, iirc Nero was pushing it-- we had a distraction in Viomi and it just didn't happen, but any time someone brought up Mathblade, Rhah was right there to go "WE. ARE. NOT. LYNCHING. MATHBLADE."

If anything, you should be:
#Happy that Rhah is out of the way so that you can lynch mathblade.
#Wondering if Mathblade is actually town, and scum cleared him so they can mislynch mathblade.

And the fact that I'm in that boat-- where YOU could be the scum that killed Rhah-- means I also find it suspicious that you're pushing Transcend,

and only Transcend, mind you,

for not lynching Mathblade... instead of pushing Mathblade himself.

This is a scum-by-association without a flip of your primary target. Scummy. FOS.

[Whiskers]

You wouldn't trust a townie who has mislynched 8 days in a row. Why would you trust rhah Trans?

Also please note, there haven't been 8 Days in this game to mislynch during.

Thanks tho

[Whiskers]

Looks like Whiskers is the only one on all three wagons ftr.

True.
I like to think I was instrumental in getting Quick and Nauci lynched, too!

But no Townie lynches alone.

If you're going to throw shade on me here, that's fine-- but you need to lynch me before milo/lylo or you're going to lose.

[Whiskers]

ok that line is gross

Good to know.

[Whiskers]

Hey gee smocaine, why is that? Why didn't you lynch Math last Day, smocaine? Huh? why didnja?

[Whiskers]

VOTE: Smocaine guys he didn't lynch mathblade last phase, clearly scum

[Whiskers]

why would you openly invite someone to lynch you when we haven't accomplished jack shit and your role pm is green

Because I'm obvious lynchbait?

Like, you don't need me to answer this, Math did a fine job.
And literally anybody else would have said the same thing.
:\

only thing that makes me question this redding is the night kill tonight

what is "redding"

[Whiskers]

btw, ass is confirmed town if Math is scum.

i'm gonna read the rest of the pages in a second (I had to restrain my teenaged sister from chewing all the way through my grandmother), but I actually want to touch on this, because I was reading during Night, and I noticed something that both Viomi and Math are doing that I find extremely scummy.

[Whiskers]

I vote for massclaim.

jail masonsjailmasonsjailmasons

This is doubly true for jailing the

louder

better

mason.

VOTE: mathblade. When this reds Ima fos trans.

ok and why?

Because you suck at finding scum and strongarmed a not mathblade lynch.

To be fair, Rhah strongarmed a not-mathblade lynch.

[preedit] oops, this didn't go through, and also,

well i would've happily lynched math

but rhah kept white knighting them

Noted how you don’t say who he was pushing :-/

I didn't say who

who

was pushing?

Listen, if you want to lynch me, make a case and do it.
I keep saying that I'm a fantastic lynch and that

if i'm going to be lynched it needs to happen pre-lylo,

but if I self vote people whine "oh wah that's scum" and if I don't self-vote people go "oh wah we can't lynch whiskers" and if I scumhunt it's, "oh whiskers doens't want to be lynched anymore!"
Like no shit, I don't

want

to be lynched, but IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT IT NEEDS TO BE SOON.

And tbh @Smocaine, btw, if you're cop you should maybe claim, but definitely investigate me if neither one of us is lynched. If I can be properly cleared then we can be done with this shit.

[Whiskers]

"wah wah i have said whiskers is scum a lot but done nothing to get her lynched, town is so meeeeean"

"whiskers is soooo hard to lynch it would actually require me to do something wah"

[Whiskers]

anyway I don't think Smocaine is getting more traction rn.
UNVOTE: Smocaine
ftr it didn't have reasons because it was a pressure vote, but we're not gonna get enough pressure on you for it to matter i think.

VOTE: Mathblade
I normally might not L-1 Math this early on but I've been on the slot since Day 1, so if it's picking up, it's picking up.

Imma be on every lynch this game, woo.

[Whiskers]

and btw while I think both Math and Asser/Nauci are scummy,
I think Math is scummier, for longer. They do the same things but Imma vote my top read over the associative tell,

not like some people...

[Whiskers]

I'm aware enough. I just don't think people should have put much stock into the guy who slipped the masons the way he did coupled with two mislynches and zero scumflips. Veterans especially, which is why I was even more skeptical of you comming into this phase.

Yo gonna say right now though
If you don't think people should have put much stock into Rhah, maybe you should be looking at the people who

weren't

down to lynch Mathblade and actually moved pressure away from the wagon, not the people who

were

trying to lynch him and

were

on the wagon.

Have you considered that?

[Whiskers]

Nauci flipped town, hello?

sorry. Asser/Viomi.
5-letter names got me.
There's a lot of replacements.

[Whiskers]

I'm aware enough. I just don't think people should have put much stock into the guy who slipped the masons the way he did coupled with two mislynches and zero scumflips. Veterans especially, which is why I was even more skeptical of you comming into this phase.

Yo gonna say right now though
If you don't think people should have put much stock into Rhah, maybe you should be looking at the people who

weren't

down to lynch Mathblade and actually moved pressure away from the wagon, not the people who

were

trying to lynch him and

were

on the wagon.

Have you considered that?

That's what I did with Transcend, which you took issue with.

Except Transcend was available to lynch Mathblade, wasn't he?

Smocaine (3) - MathBlade, Whiskers, AxleGreaser

Considering I wasn't dogpiled by scum. I would bet there are 2 scum here.

"I

wasn't

dogpiled, so 2/3 of the dogpile are scum"???
Wha?

[Whiskers]

EBWOP:
"I

wasn't

dogpiled by scum, so 2/3 of the dogpile are scum"

[Whiskers]

I assumed we were in mylo, obviously.

Why is that obvious?

Why does that make a difference???

"I haven't been dogpiled by scum, therefore 2/3 players dogpiling me is scum." It's a contradictory statement that has nothing to do with being in MyLo, I'm just trying to figure out what the fuck you're talking about.

[Whiskers]

Go town go!

I guess that means me tomorrow

[Whiskers]

The catchup since daystart wasn't as long as I thought it'd be.
I've been gone for a couple of days so I haven't been rereading the thread in preparation for my inevitable lynch like the last few Days.
There's a couple of things I didn't like during catchup, but mostly nothing worth remarking on.

eh actually VOTE: assembler

there's been way too much resistance to lynch this slot all game

In that case, why are you only scum "ish" reading me? This has been IaI's whole case on me.
Maybe I'm just seeing shadows but I can't help but think stuff like this is to incriminate me, fos.

I mean if Math felt like this was a good reason for why Flubber was scum I'm not really sure why Math doesn't think this is reason to suspect Whiskers. That selective scumhunting is p scummy.

^^I'm seeing this again with Transcend, and it skeeves me.

What option would that be?

like I'm not going to just blab everything I'm thinking so you and your scumbuddies can know what I'm thinking and counter me.

Even if you think it's the right move to play your cards close to your chest, you have to understand this looks scummy to anybody who hasn't seen your role PM.

Meanwhile: I could be on an Assembler lynch-- there's some stuff with Viomi (I can dig it up and post it) but mostly IMO it's that he's a claimed JK who is still alive. WIFOM? Sure, but there's no reason to not eliminate the town PR... Someone mentioned "hidden PR hunting" but with 4 scum how many many more PRs can we expect? I'm guessing instead this player is scum aligned.
And like, JK doesn't even make sense here. There's two masons and a dayvig. All of the risk of blocking a town PR is gone so that makes JK an

extremely

powerful role, in a game with masons (conftown to each other; a very powerful role) and a 1-shot dayvig (a pretty powerful role). JK is an empowered Doc if there's no townroles to block.

I don't buy it.

btw where is Flairs?

[Whiskers]

1.

MathBlade

13.

Viomi

14.

Smocaine

there is atleast 1 scum here.

is there any mutual exclusivity here, or are these just your scumreads?

as in 2 are town and 1 is scum.

[Whiskers]

Aight well at the moment I could probably go Whiskers. Just looking at their position on previous wagons- with the exception of Nauci, Whiskers was an early vote on all of the town lynches and then one of the last votes on scum. Not too substantial, but enough when you consider their other posts. They have this preachy scum vibe (especially at the start of Day 3) that Boonskiies kinda gives off whenever he's scum.

ftr I've pushed the MAth slot since day 1 and voted it every day. I was late on the wagon because when I vote the wagons go elsewhere-- many people going "ew I don't like voting on the same wagon as whiskers" and voting something else.

who is boonskiies?

[Whiskers]

I've been pushing there being 4 scum for awhile now. I'm not believing that you just now knew about this unless you really aren't reading which you shouldn't do as town but would make sense if you are scum. My rationale for thinking this was a 4 scum setup is that 3 in a 17 is common so an 18 might be 4 and a 14/4 is a nice round setup. But in hindsight, eh. A 15/3 setup doesn't seem impossible at all.

This is also talking away from the criticism that Ass shouldn't have voted Math after blocking. Like that's a really crummy argument and you should have enough experience to understand that by now.

with masons and dayvig, and potentially a jk, i would hope it's not 15/3

[Whiskers]

also on my mind: joey and viomi were playing pretty openly and recklessly, NOT what you normally expect from a town PR. Then the viomi claim came out of nowhere with nonsense target claims. like I'm not sayign it's impossible but it is sketchy af from my pov.

[Whiskers]

hey why do you think alisae and joey were buddied so hard during day 1?

[Whiskers]

and 5 in 18 does?!?

*4

weren't you the one who told me it was 4 scum, not 3? like, on day 1.

[Whiskers]

Axle can I respond yet or do you still need time with Nero?

The lynch pool should be between the two slots that have contributed the least this game imo,

Flair's

and IAI. Nero is likely the last scum with them, with his muddying of the waters to try and convince us it's not LyLo and his "I'm going to do it but it's not my fault" hammer of the mislynch. I'm now considering axle conftown at this point, more Towny then the Mason that just died. So that leaves whiskers and transcend. I'm not sure what whiskers latest stance is but I think I have some work to do to win transcend over to my side since he is so pro Nero. Care to have a conversation transcend?

But beeboy did significant work day 1.

Also as much as I don't like IAI's constant push to keep me as a lynch target, I think your sudden assertion that we should lynch lurkers is pretty problematic considering we just hit (probably) LyLo. Activity =/= Town.

[Whiskers]

this is probably my final night and i have to make sure town's going in the right direction before i depart because this is a giant mess rn

This is a scummy post.

But what made you claim yesterday if your original reason for not claiming during mini-mass claim was that it gave you a chance at being shot. Why not keep up the ruse?

Well I wanted to see if axle was done with you on this line of questioning but meh...

"The Ruse" was for that night. I'm trying to make this as clear as possible and I don't understand why people aren't getting this

I was knowingly submitting a hammer vote, despite the long twilight, the day was OVER. Town had no further actions to make.

The next action was going to be a scum action, to night kill someone. When discussing their options for that night, they would undoubtedly be considering what claims were made. I was a ? on their board.

If I had claimed, I would be a known entity on their board. Once the night was over, the town was awake again and ready to act. At that point the benefit of me being a mystery to scum is over, town has a chance to act again via their votes. It's time to claim to out myself for town to know.

Between my hammer and my claim the next day, town had no way of acting on my claim or using it in anyway that benefited town at all. So why claim it?

As for why not continue the "ruse"? It wasn't a ruse to begin with, I just wasn't claiming. It would be suspect as hell if I kept going the next day with people asking me to answer with "it's a mystery!". You Nero were the first person to ask for my claim the next day of course. Curious scum?

you quickhammered.
scum isn't going to touch that with a 10 foot pole, too easy to mislynch. You weren't drawing a shot (If you

were

a PR, you woudln't have quickhammered), so you might as well have claimed-- or followed through with the non-claim.

[Whiskers]

But beeboy did significant work day 1.

Oh? How many scum got lynched day 1? And 2? And 3?

How about flairs whiskers? What's your thoughts on their actions?

afaict flairs did fuckall but going "oho we have to lynch between flairs and IaI" in LyLo is super scummy.

you haven't cared about lurkers all game so far so why now?

tbh i'm ready to vote. and when lucky flips red it is going to give a lot of towncred to flairs/IaI.

[Whiskers]

vote:Lucky

not moving my vote

oh good, let's go then

Vote: Lucky

caught scum is caught

[Whiskers]

In response to Nero... All game? Where are your votes then? You didn't show up on a single Alisae vote count. Then on day 3 when we were the closest to lynching math with 4 out of 7 needed, where were you for several days? On smocaine (now flipped town) and whiskers wagons that were going nowhere. Where was my vote? On scum the whole day. You have a funny way of showing you being after that slot the whole game.

if you cared about vca you'd have lynched me by now.

[Whiskers]

you think you should get town cred for

hammering

Math

like Thor

FTFY

Yea. I should get town cred for that hammer. I take full responsibility for that scum lynch. I'm sorry for doing it. I don't care if people think it's scummy that I'm expecting a town read for lolhammering scum. Get over yourselves (looking at you TIAM in the dead thread)

As for you "sparing" with him. You were reluctant to follow through. It could easily be read as distancing the whole game away from that slot. Unless your saying that scum Nero is more likely to be obvious and buddy his scum partners the whole game. I give you more credit than that.

What about me? I'd been on that slot since Alisae, Day 1, before the shot. How come

you

get "full responsibility"?

btw, being "like Thor" isn't a good thing.

[Whiskers]

Nah.

I don't think red lucky means green flairs or green iai

That's way too much of an assumption to make there

I don't either, but I think it's worth some town cred.

[Whiskers]

Bussing is a thing

Ykno if lucky can bus math, what does that mean he can't bus flairs as well

yeah maybe but this is desperation. it doesn't prove anything but it's worth towncred.

that said, scum haven't quickhammered lucky. that could mean a bunch of things, here they are:

Lucky is scum and scumteam wants to save him
Lucky is town and scumteam isn't around to quicklynch him (ie, Flairs & IaI)
Lucky is town and scum are already voting him (Nero & Whiskers), hoping town will sheep.
-OR-
This isn't LyLo.

Unvote

@Nero what do you think? I think looking at Flairs/IaI might actually be a good angle.
@Axel same question.

[Whiskers]

and in light of that Nero saying "hey this isn't lylo it's 3 scum" is

especially

fishy. nothing significant, but FoS.

[Whiskers]

add'l

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Whiskers]

1s dayvig 1 jk and 2 masons

Hmmm

what??
in what world is that "weak"??

That's more power roles than a standard newbie game. Dayvig is strong. JK that doesn't ever block any town powers is just an improved Doc-- which is strong. 2 Masons is more than standard 0 masons.

[Whiskers]

I stopped reading Iai's posts when they became

5 VOTECOUNTS IN A ROW

Hmmm this is an interesting result

[Whiskers]

iirc his case was something like "lucky voted mathblade and whiskers voted mathblade so lucky couldnm't

poosibly

be scum"

[Whiskers]

"hnmmmmmm interesting result" isn't vca.

[Whiskers]

I don't even know who is in the game at this point

[Whiskers]

And no, it's not all you did, but your following posts were similarly, lists of conclusions.
It'd be real nice if you had the vote counts and the conclusions together, maybe drawing one from the other in a clear way

They came separate and I don't care enough rn to go back and forth and try to understand where you're getting certain conclusions from

The particular one I remember was your going like "hmm look at all the people who voted X, we skills look at all the people who think You is scummy" but you don't go into why or tell us who those people are so I may fucking ignored it

[Whiskers]

there is not three scum

a 3/15 doesn't seem impossible at all to me, maybe even makes the most sense with the low town power.

firstly
we don't have "low town power" and you and trans are fucking bonkers saying we do.

secondly
if you are

suddenly so sure

that there's only 3 scum, then why would you FOS and throw shade on ME when I make a post saying that there's a possibility we're not in LyLo going "You're the only one who thinks we're not in LyLo, whiskers!!?!?!"

[Whiskers]

@Whiskers

and in light of that Nero saying "hey this isn't lylo it's 3 scum" is especially fishy. nothing significant, but FoS.

this is not exactly true. I had added the 4th scum b/c this was not a 17 play and a 4/14 seemed plausible. In hindsight, a 3/15 seems equally plausible.

Why should I buy one setup over the other?

I think

TREATING

this day phase like its lylo, regardless of whether or not it really is, is the right thing to do. But I don't think I've ever been like "this isn't lylo, vote randomly and recklessly!"

Because oyu were the one who suggested it and argued it.

And even then I didn't say you

should

"buy" one setup over the other: case in point in my next post I went "Hey maybe it's not LyLo and there's only 3 scum after all" which you thougth was scummy.

But more importantly, why are you fucking bothering posting about setup speculation (first assuring us that there's 4 scum, now that there's only 3-- and really, throughout the game this keeps being brought up) in the first place?

[Whiskers]

unvote

atleast one of the following is true.

I am already voting scum
the three scum have not gotten on all at the same time
there is not three scum

hey wow it's like i literally said,

that said, scum haven't quickhammered lucky. that could mean a bunch of things, here they are:

Lucky is scum and scumteam wants to save him
Lucky is town and scumteam isn't around to quicklynch him (ie, Flairs & IaI)
Lucky is town and scum are already voting him (Nero & Whiskers), hoping town will sheep.
-OR-
This isn't LyLo.

And then you're all fuckin, "oh hey

definitely

3 player scumteam" but here you go

like you are the only one that I've seen suggesting that this might not be lylo. FOS yourself.

which is literally the same thing you're saying.

[Whiskers]

wait

what??

unvote

atleast one of the following is true.

I am already voting scum
the three scum have not gotten on all at the same time
there is not three scum

I just reread this and I apparently didn't understsand it the first time

there is not three scum

In what scenario does your vote on lucky prove this?
Like, if there's 4 scum, it's LyLo (right?) and they could potentially all hop on and quicklynch.
If there's 3 scum, it's not LyLo, they

couldnt

all hop on and quicklynch, even if they wanted to.
So how does no quickhammer prove there isn't 3 scum? How

could

it?

[Whiskers]

axel and IaI make sense together, but I read Axel as town and IaI as scum mostly from confirmation bias and a lack of willingness to push me.

Actually I take that back. IaI's lack of willingness to push me but consistent reminders that "oho whiskers is still alive!" fuckin tweaks me something fierce

that's literally argument from repetition, you plant a seed of doubt and you just let it niggle in the back of everyone's heads. you know who else used argument from repetition instead of making a case against whiskers? Alisae.

[Whiskers]

idfk on beeboy slot. pretty ok play Day 1.0 - 1.5, then lurked out. Then replaced by what, flairs? who then lurked out. Now replaced by Sauce, who has fucked up his account and prolly won't be here for the rest of the Day. Might lurk out too, who knows?

I had some reason for scumreading Lucky but I forgot it rn.

Axel > Nero > Transcend > Flairs = Lucky* > IaI

scumteam? associative tells are like boxing with shadows.

[Whiskers]

i'm not bothering to go back and read rn. I just popped into the thread after a long pokemon go session, right before some league of legends. later, i'll be playing D&D.

you got something, roast me. I stopped in for a couple minutes to keep caught up, not to fuckin bobby fischer.

ttyl

[Whiskers]

if you are suddenly so sure that there's only 3 scum, then why would you FOS and throw shade on ME when I make a post saying that there's a possibility we're not in LyLo going "You're the only one who thinks we're not in LyLo, whiskers!!?!?!

ummmm, I've always thought you were scummy so it's not like I'm just now FOSing and that's not even what happened. Like you suggested that it was scummy for me to go through this game thinking that it was 4 scum and then change my mind. Why is it scummy to change my mind? There are two probable setups, why should I believe one over the other? What I'm saying is that you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing me of.

You were the first person to say "oh hey 4 scum" and then you attacked anybody who disagreed like "in what world do we have 3 scum there's clearly 4"

In what scenario does your vote on lucky prove this?

it doesn't. I was listing some possibilities obv.

but Whiskers being all hostile is yuck. The whole "u r FOSing me for suggesting that today isn't lylo!" is shades of Math misrep. I'm pretty ok flipping this today.

So what I THINK is happening is that you're not FOSing me here because I made the post saying "hey it might be possibly 3 scum," for the content, but because I FOS'd you for the same. aka you're calling me a hypocrite, though you haven't been so clear as to come out and say it, so I guess I'll just make the case against myself since nobody else is going to.

Axel > Nero

> Transcend > Flairs = Lucky* > IaI

Do you know what > means? It's "greater than" as in "Axel is greater than Nero." More town.

[Whiskers]

+ the whole "2 masons a 1 shot dayvig and a jailkeeper" r really powerful is a bit of a silly argument I think.

except it fucking is????
What's a "powerful" town PR role to you????

[Whiskers]

17 players are 1 scum for every 4.6 players. Is a 1 for every 5 really that different?

Why only consider me and Lucky for a lynch?

15/3 = 5 to 1 ratio
14/4 = 3.5 to 1 ratio (same as newbie game)

I’m still perplexed why town Nero is so pushing 3 scum over 4 scum and why town Nero would have taken a chance to early vote when this could be LyLo.

Also not a fan that the person he presumably risked the game on by voting early isn’t even a current suspect.

Earlier he pushed me and nauci when I suspected nauci most of the game. Then later when I voted axel he pushed it as a distancing or bussing vote. Now he doesn’t even suspect axel anymore.

I’m still leaning axel/Nero/one more...whiskers or flair/sauce

this is a good post.

see that's the fucking issue i'm having, is that IAI is making really good posts but his whole thing about not pushing me but just reminding people "hey whiskers hasn't been lynched yet"

so let me poke there: IaI, why

haven't

you gone through and made the case? I didn't have Rhah's protection like Mathblade did, and I even offered myself up for a lynch earlier. It would have been super easy to lynch me if anybody had put any effort in. We spent most of the game lynching the easiest wagons, so why haven't you built a fire under me to get me lynched?

The argument from repetition is irritating as fuck because it looks like trying to set me up for a later mislynch-- as in, a nice scummy target to mislynch in LyLo. Otherwise,

why would you constantly go "hey whiskers is scum we haven't lynched her yet" but also NOT CASE ME?

I don't know whether to count it as my own confirmation bias because it seems like a legitimate scumtell in my view.
Meanwhile, you're making some of the same arguments I am (like vs Nero here) so I don't know what to think.