Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Kovu]

Hmm. imo Fey always flips scum in a scum!Gorilla world. Does anything else really make sense?

Why always?

cause meuh and gamma are wanting to bus fey since their push on you isn't working

[Kovu]

meuh and fey, yall are really good at this beetlejuice thing

[Kovu]

but yeah, @everyone, no one feel rushed to vote or whatever, but considering how no one did anything the past 24 hours, and I'm pretty sure the next 24 will also have a bunch of nothing, for the sake of this gamestate, I'm voting and telling yall where I wanna go, no one HAS to follow but yeah I'm staying here.

Meuh has been doing a lot of like "trying to tell you what you want to hear" as she talks to you, like, she told me, that me and gamma are her TRs, ok.. so that implies she has like 3 possible people for scum. yet is actively trying to push none of them. just this morning it was all "GAMMA IS MY TR!!" and then 3033, offers Gamma as a potential scum... like, if meuh isn't just trying to tell everyone what she thinks they want to hear? idk what she's doing or how she's playing, but it's definitely not playing in the best intentions of town

[Kovu]

Fey, is meuh maf?

[Kovu]

The only alternative would be you/Gamma/Gorilla. I guess that makes some sense

just this morning you were all "gamma MUST be town" off just 1 post though? "this isn't gamma!scum" or whatever.. do we need to pull that quote back up of exactly what you said about your partner gamma?

[Kovu]

Meuh.. I found this interesting, you commented on 2611 twice, the first time you were very critical of what gamma said, then the second time in your explanation to me, you were like "it's townie logic" that is definitely NOT what you said the first time you read it... actually, I just saw that and I think it's a slip, so yeah. good job!! Gamma is Meuh's partner.

Not sure I really think Gamma is scum but I do think Enchant is, regardless.

@Meuh - Dunn Fey and a deepwolf - probably one of fire/Kovu, and if I had to say this instant I'd say Kovu. I know that people will think that opinion is garbo but I really think that one scum has likely been putting a ton of effort into the game and set themselves up to actually live through the ridiculous number of Invictus shots this game has, because otherwise you're just asking to get gunned down halfway through the game by random Invictus shots.

The thing is that effort isn't really something you just assign players?
Like if scum ended up with none of the players in the game putting a very high amount of effort in, that doesn't mean suddenly one of them is going to change their playstyle for that purpose.
Scum might just be significantly losing rn, who knows? I don't see why we'd make the assumption they weren't.
It's optimal for scum to have high effort players yes but no one in the history of mafia has ever played a game optimally.

Meuh, who are you thinking is town right now and why?

Well I think you're town and I'm willing to just accept the loss if you aren't.

Tbh I'd say my second biggest townread here is Gamma. I don't recall their interactions with Marci particularly looking S/S. Also, none of Gamma's content actually looks scummy to me, and they have a few moments I think look good. Things like insisting to not vote until everyone checks in, or asking for a massclaim.
It's small stuff but I like it.

> I'd have to reread Gamma's post for bad intentions because I don't think it's inherently scummy.
You were just telling me gamma's posts were towny? like, what posts are you reading? I'm talking about day 4 gamma posts.. like there was even just a list of reads where I was at the bottom, doesn't take much reading to see that.. and my interactions with gamma today have been "why am I automatically maf cause you think there's a deepwolf" Like, why do I out my fire hood at day 2 start as scum? no benefit to outing it.

I was referring to Gamma's read on you. I don't think scumreading you is an inherently scummy thing. I think it's incorrect, yes, but not necessarily scummy.
I'm saying there's been moments of "oh, okay he's probably town" that I've had with Gamma, not that his posting overall has been townie. I'm kinda neutral on a lot of his posts iirc.

I don't think you're scum, I'm not arguing in favour of Gamma's logic. I think it's a bit silly to assume you're a deepwolf, but I also very much can see a townie get paranoid about one existing, and if so, you and Fire are the only candidates. Fire being a much more reasonable potential deepwolf, though. I think you've had too many moments that seemed very genuine to be scum, but I think your posting style of often switching up reads and votes, seemingly unprompted could be seem as scummy. (I'd assume a large part of this was because of hood discussion?) I've been called out for similar reasons in games before and I see the mindset behind it, and also know that it's very very often NAI or even town indicative. I'd even say it is for myself.

But I should probably properly take a look at Gamma's push against you. If his logic or tone is bad, then maybe he has ill-intentions here.

@Meuh - Dunn Fey and a deepwolf - probably one of fire/Kovu, and if I had to say this instant I'd say Kovu. I know that people will think that opinion is garbo but I really think that one scum has likely been putting a ton of effort into the game and set themselves up to actually live through the ridiculous number of Invictus shots this game has, because otherwise you're just asking to get gunned down halfway through the game by random Invictus shots.

Okay look at this, it's townie logic. The only scenario where I see Gamma push you as scum like this is if he's very desperate and also partnered with Fire. (Pushing you over Fire would be bad if you and Fire were town/town.) But those 2 things seem contradictory. A Gamma/Fire/anyone else team was - and imo still is - lined up for a win. So I just don't see scum!Gamma saying this.

I do see town!Gamma saying it though. Being scared, seeing the gamestate as worse for town than it realistically is, and having a scumread on someone who clearly isn't going to get limmed anytime soon seems like ridiculous scum play. Wouldn't the best angle for scum!Gamma to go with like, actually to just try to pocket you?

2231 this is just so good. Like is it very likely wrong? Yes. Is it genuine and coming from someone trying to solve? Also yes. 2411 too. This is not a push being made by scum.
The read evolves naturally, doesn't benefit a scum agenda and Gamma's posts on the topic have good tone. I townread him more now tbh

>I barely had a read on Gamma before day 3, I was just like "he's around enough and doesn't look scummy so I'm willing to accept he's town for now"
This is literally just saying "you're town for coasting" like.. yeah, why do you think we can't recall ANYTHING from gamma until here where the lim actually matters? Like, just being around, but not standing out? that doesn't scream scum to you? scum is trying to blend in. especially with invictus, like, scum doesn't want to be standing out, think about marci. marci wasn't really standing out, was all buddy buddy with you, but was avoiding anything controversial, and once marci went "hot take, kovu maf" I tunneled her, and she died. like, scum sees that, and goes "ok... just gonna blend in" cause town is shooting low poe, or taking a hero shot.

Nonono, I'm not saying he's town for coasting. He didn't stick out to

me

, and me specifically. He played relatively visibly and actively, I think.
If I thought he was deliberately trying to fade in and not draw too much attention to himself I'd find it scummy, but that's not the impression I got. The idea of him fading in makes even less sense with Marci!scum, since why would he deliberately 1v1 with her if he was trying to stay in the background?
My point was that his posts specifically didn't stick to me, they specifically didn't really catch my eye or had me think about them much.
To note that the main other 2 people who I felt similarly about, Datisi and Val, were both town. It's a personal thing that explains my own read, I'm not saying Gamma was trying to fade in.
I think your point about how scum want to disappear and not draw much attention makes sense, especially considering the setup. I'm saying I don't think it really applies to Gamma. Though actually, looking at it now; his post count is strikingly low. His content to post ratio is significant, but still I thought he had made more. I guess not.

See, I don't like the concept of "lim these 3 in any order, if wrong, just go here" like, at this point in the game we need actual reads, cause surely you know you're in the list of "just lim these people, if wrong go elsewhere" like, if we lim town, and invictus town here, we lose. game over. And people need to at least try here, and if you're not putting in an effort to find maf, you need to at least work on proving your towniness... and that goes for all town here, cause we have exactly a 0% chance of winning if town doesn't wanna try.

This is fair, I've been pretty lazy. We're a group and me throwing out an order of action isn't productive. There's no reason for people to stick to it, and even if they do the mafia might have some PR in their back pocket just to obliterate us, which would suck and derail any plans. Plus you guys reading me accurately would be nice!

[Kovu]

Individual reads and scumteam reads are different things, sadly.

uhh I'm not putting my TRs on any scumteam read I have... that's literally the entire point of having TRs... you remove them from the equation, then the team is left in the remaining people

[Kovu]

but literally 75% of the team combinations here involve Gamma. (As do the others left here)

I am aware... literally why I was like, "yo meuh gamma is definitely maf" and all morning you were just defending gamma, and only after you realized, if gamma was town, you basically have your set team to push, but you can't push dunn now? can that's just not a popular thought. there's a very clear agenda to this, ans simple answer is, you weren't prepared to have to bus gamma right here cause gamma is the sole person carrying the scum team right now. I just don't see town making a complete 180 on the same post they read and made comments on... without acknowledging themselves "I SRed it before, but TR it now" your progression has not been towny, and I'm very happy ending today on voting you out

[Kovu]

Yeah, cause Gamma's logic that there must be a deepwolf was wrong,

how do you know there's not a deepwolf?

and I disagreed with it

right....

Okay look at this, it's townie logic.

"I disagreed with it" cause we call things townie logic we disagree with...

my brain was not in "hey, is Gamma town over this" mode.

really? cause I even told you that's how your posts were reading.. I was giving you my genuine points for why I SRed Gamma, and your response was basically "no! gamma town!!"

Recently I've wanted to take a good look at Gamma's push on you and when I took a look, that post stuck out to me as being based in townie logic. That's not something I noticed on my first read of it, but looking back on it specifically focused on the push on you and the posts made leading up to it, it looked good.

it looked good that gamma was pushing me for bussing marci for town cred? in hindsight it looks good gamma is only pushing the 1 person who really led the wagon on our 1 flipped scum? THAT looks great in hindsight? Cause you also read my posts, which gamma ignored about, if the plan was to truly bus marci, why did I not do it day 1? I wasn't on that day 1 wagon at any point..

I looked at the post at different times, focused on different aspects of them, with a different mentality, and unsurprisingly different things stuck out to me about it.

I mean, when I was telling you gamma was my #1 sr, and your gut reaction to that was to just be all "GAMMA IS MY TR!!" and refuse to even hear my case basically, and now you're all "yeah gamma maf!!" I just have a really hard time believing, you're genuinely trying to find maf here, and this gamma thing truly feels like a last minute panic...

[Kovu]

Say I die and flip town, who realistically makes sense as a Gammagooey teammate? Not Dunn. Not Fey. Not Kovu. It'd have to be Gamma/fire/Meuh but then fire went out of his way to case his teammate yesterday for no reason when most people were townreading her?? Just doesn't make a lick of sense.

meuh maf? perfect. we lim meuh here!

[Kovu]

I also really wish the clears weren't so diffident and removed from discussion. It is frustrating to have the fate of the game in the hands of people when I'm not realy sure what they're thinking or reading.

Well, the hydra is mainly Mena and he's on vacation till like Friday/Saturday, idk timezomes (and he said he's normally V/LA on weekends) so... I figured that's info yall deserve to have.. and Bell is being bell? idk, we're not really talking. So that's where I'm like, hey, I know a lot of you TR me. here's my thoughts and what I wanna do. Yall don't have to agree. but I'm sick of this game just being stagnant, like, we had ~24 hours on NO ONE posting or whatever... We all SR meuh. some of us more than others. I really believe she flips red. So I think she is a good flip for today. If people don't like my "direction" you are more than welcome to wait for Mena to show up, but I don't think Mena is opposed to a meuh lim here. and yeah. that's just my two cents. cause if we have more days of nothing, I'll just stop caring all together tbh

[Kovu]

we're depending on the votes of two incredibly flaky clears to make any elimination happen.

I mean, we don't have to wait for them, I'm pretty sure Bell would be OK with a meuh lim, even if it's not Bell's #1 choice, but we only need 5 votes, RR will show up at somepoint in the near future, even if it's to dodge a prod, so like, yeah.. we definitely could vote whoever out.. Dunn would vote meuh, you, me and fire are voting, and then literally anyone who wants to hammer. easy. but if yall wanna wait forever for mena's "full thoughts" go for it

[Kovu]

VOTE: Marcistar
Probably the best option at this point?
I'm feeling like my suspicion on VPB might be tainted by annoyance

VOTE: marci

VOTE: Marcistar
Probably the best option at this point?
I'm feeling like my suspicion on VPB might be tainted by annoyance

didn't like the vp vote and wasn't really expecting to see this but i think i might like this post actually

VOTE: marci

let's do it

The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-12 15:30:00).

If I'm scum, is my vote on Marci a planned bus or a clumsy accident? May I remind you it started a vote chain, there were 2 votes on Marci beforehand. If it was planned why was it so mellow and why was the first person to jump on it town and the second also likely town? If it wasn't, why did I quote the ever nearing deadline to urge people to vote right as the wagon gained momentum? The answer is that I didn't have an agenda, and I just pushed for someone who I thought should be limmed, to be limmed. Nothing more, nothing less.
If my recent play isn't gonna convince you all, I want you guys to consider what I've done earlier.
It doesn't make sense if I'm scum, and if you realize that I hope you guys can go elsewhere. I will, as always, support a lim on anyone in the pool that isn't me. (This includes Gamma)

you can not claim credit at all day 2 for the marci lim... like what even?? I cased marci, and mala followed, and no one else talked for like the next 6 hours... I read your stuff like "oh day 1?" I'm 100% the reason for day 2 marci going over...

[Kovu]

Meuh: "I'm the reason the marci wagon started" yeah. RIGHT...

Vote Count 2.6

Flavor to come way way later sorry, have tried to keep simultaneous but will be awhile

Player	Votes
Dwlee99 (5)	Fey (1569), Enchant (1587), Meuh (1727), Lukewarm (1914), VP Baltar (2077)
Meuh (3)	gorilla (2005), fireisredsir (2093), Val89 (2111)
gorilla (2)	Dunnstral (1296), Rhyme and Reason (1301)
Dunnstral (2)	Gammagooey (1391), SirCakez (1600)
marcistar (2)	Kovu (2106), Malakittens (2108)
Gammagooey (1)	marcistar (1239)
SirCakez (1)	Bell (1906)
VP Baltar (1)	Dwlee99 (1924)
Not Voting (0)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to eliminate.

No elimination has been achieved. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-12 15:30:00).

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Bell	115	10
Fey	38	10
fireisredsir	89	10
Malakittens	5	10
Lukewarm	119	10
Dunnstral	26	10
Rhyme and Reason	28	10
Meuh	80	10
Val89	28	10
marcistar	57	10
Dwlee99	21	10
Gammagooey	26	10
Kovu	98	10
VP Baltar	120	10
Enchant	27	10
SirCakez	64	10
gorilla	58	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

[Kovu]

A mislim on me sounds terrible both for our chances of winning but tbh mostly for my own personal feelings so I just don't want it to happen

I mean, if we don't lim you here, do you really think you're not getting invictus shot? like, voting you out we can read the wagon/VC stuff. but you make it sound like the issue here is just voting you out. like ok we could vote someone else out, but then point invictus at you? why is that not the issue?

[Kovu]

so... we vote meuh!!!! that is the conclusion I have reached!!

[Kovu]

and for those of us who don't want to wait till monday for "maybe something" I'm saying we should lim meuh.
We have 4 days 6 hours till deadline, and if you want to spend 3 waiting? you do you, but @ everyone going "I'm sheeping the clears" I'm as close to a clear as you're really gonna get for leadership right now, up to yall, it's your vote, do what you want with it, but I'm staying on Meuh, if anyone has opposition to it I'm happy to hear your case, and no I'm not limming gorilla the bg here.

wait if you want, or don't but if you want 3 IRL days of nothing happening... whatever

[Kovu]

I don't want to go after Meuh today

I do! Cause meuh wasn't concerned about being invictus shot, implying she either doesn't have one, or it's not going to affect her, and if you look at every single VC, the only people to ever vote meuh are basically the dead town (gamma was in rvs, but not for long) so, dead town, me you fire. that's it, I am ONLY voting Meuh here. and if yall wanna strongarm this lim to someone else, you're doing it without my vote. I am staying on meuh.

[Kovu]

I agree that fey is maf, but I'm not getting off meuh, ever since that weird invictus think from meuh.. plus meuh is just here like "idk who my read for the maf team is.. uhhhh" and Fey had to like step in like "you need to push me" basically.. so yeah I'm confident meuh is not town, and I'm confident scum doesn't want meuh to go over here, so that's exactly the maf I want

[Kovu]

UNVOTE:

[Kovu]

plot twist, Me, Bell, and RR are the mafia. gg

[Kovu]

real talk, I'm still down with flipping meuh

[Kovu]

uhh he said he wouldn't be around till at least tomorrow?
now you see why I was like "I don't even care anymore" ...

[Kovu]

hmm meuh probably town, she's like the only one even really trying now, so I gues... gamma or gorilla here?

[Kovu]

No elimination has been achieved. The Day 4 deadline is in 2 days, 4 hours, 22 minutes.

If Bell/R&R continue to dither and hedge uselessly, I will vote myself in 24 hours, for the sake of ensuring an elimination actually happens. I frankly do not trust them to act decisively within the time alotted.

I mean, I'd much rather people just vote whoever they SR, like, sitting around the entire D4 cause "must sheep clears" gets us exactly no where...

[Kovu]

plus, we have 0 information going into the night with VC analysis stuff..

VOTE: Fey

[Kovu]

VOTE: gorilla e-1?

[Kovu]

Meuh. what's your current read on Gamma?

[Kovu]

Kovu can't play this game right now, so we'll have to chat later
and quite honestly, I'm clear now. Bell said he'd be on Dunn. all scum had to do to win there was kill a town... on a town, so scum!me doesn't kill BELL who says he's on Dunn... I had Bell and Fire tell me about their targets, I talked fire INTO going to no one, and I'm pretty sure RR would've been on someone other than who bell/fire were on, so yeah. I'm pretty CLEAR now. want to look for a deepwolf? you can go look at fire now.

I'm not sharing my reads here till after I see where everyone else stands/what yall are thinking. I already have my suspicions.

[Kovu]

Does someone wanna go analyze some Dunn wagon VCs? there were definitely wagons on Dunn this game... you'll win some town points if you do it and have a good analysis
if not, I'll do it later, just a tad busy irl right now

[Kovu]

ahh sorry I'm not doing anything, I'm good with this, and I'll do what I wanna do at night. I'm pretty certain Fey is town

VOTE: Meuh

(but like, there's no point in just dragging this out when all yall seem done... sorry I've just been busy IRL)

[Kovu]

VC 2.2
Dunnstral(2) gorilla (1175), Gammagooey (1391)

VC 2.3
Dunnstral(5) gorilla (1175), Gammagooey (1391), SirCakez (1600), Meuh (1631), Dwlee99 (1644)

VC 2.4
Dunnstral(2) Gammagooey (1391), SirCakez (1600)

VC 3.2
Dunnstral(6) gorilla (2444), Kovu (2528), SirCakez (2535), Gammagooey (2535), fireisredsir (2553), Meuh (2554)

VC 3.3
Dunnstral(4) Kovu (2528), SirCakez (2535), Gammagooey (2535), fireisredsir (2553)

VC 4.1
Dunnstral(2) gorilla (2885), Meuh (2886)

VC 4.2
Dunnstral(1) gorilla (2885)

So looking at the VCs (thanks for the help team!) I want to say it's just meuh and fey/fire? like I'm not really sold on Gamma being dunn's partner, Fey never voted Dunn, and fire didn't till it was popular on d3?? idk.. but I want to say VCs = Gamma never being Dunn's partner... and this would be why meuh was all "yeah gamma is town!!" when we were talking...

[Kovu]

VC 3.2, meuh looks like maf that hopped on for town cred as Dunn was about to go over, I just can't tell if that was also why fire hopped on... like meuh is sitting e-1 right now, and fire has been "convinced all game" that meuh was maf... so why not hammer? if my SR is e-1 I'd just yeet it... instead.. I'm not sure what's currently happening/what fire is trying to do

[Kovu]

D2 FINAL VC

marcistar

(9) -

Malakittens

(2108), Kovu (2160), Meuh (2187),

SirCakez

(2188), fireisredsir (2189), Gammagooey (2193),

VP Baltar

(2197),

Lukewarm

(2222),

Enchant

(2223)

gorilla

(2) -

Dunnstral

(1296),

Rhyme and Reason

(1301)

VP Baltar

(2)-

Dwlee99 (1924), Val89 (2150)

Gammagooey(1)-

marcistar

(1239)

Dwlee99

(1)- Fey (1569)

SirCakez(1)- Bell (1906)

Dunnstral

(1)-

gorilla

(2135)

So Fey is either maf, or marci had 2 partners bus. Fire living in a PT with me, really didn't have the choice to not vote marci, so ehhh
but this is kinda interesting...

[Kovu]

the only thing stopping me from flat out calling gamma lock town? marci's vote. I remember at the time I was like "for distance?" like, marci had a vote on gamma the entire day, for no reason really...

[Kovu]

would love some other thoughts here

[Kovu]

Nice. Fey and fire… I have been told Fey is never mafia here. And I have been pocketed by fire, I don’t think fire has had a single correct read… and last night fire was throwing out the idea of me being maf… I’m honestly inclined to think final maf is just fire, but want to double check something. But that’s where my head is at right now

[Kovu]

Ahhhh I have a REALLY hard time believing it’s fire, that’s the issue…

[Kovu]

i asked mena for more on the fey TR reasoning… I’m gonna have to really think, either tomorrow or tuesday I’ll throw a vote up though, I’m not dragging this out to just lose, so yeah, if yall have any final “it’s not me!” asap is the time to share why, cause there’s a large chance i’ll vote town, so woooo

[Kovu]

fey, I just skimmed your ISO… it’s uhh… not too great.. 971 was where I feel like you just went “yeah these names are town” which if you’re maf it’s true, and like idk.. I will not vote tonight, but this iso… wow…

and like I went back to my PT with fire.. as bad as some of it is, there’s a lot of really good stuff… aghhh

[Kovu]

yeah fire was deadset on lava and ignored me going “i actually don’t think it can be lava” and then fire hasn’t pushed a single scum all game I don’t think

[Kovu]

I also think like every scum this game has tried to push me as a miselim which means something.

fire told me scum was bussing you, yeah

[Kovu]

oh good point… I need the marci/fire interactions

[Kovu]

and I think it was D2 i entered screaming fire maf! so the dunn/gamma/marci reaction there… i need to look at that

i’m just way too tired to do that now but this is perfect!!! I’ll look into it tomorrow! ~12 hours from now

[Kovu]

I mean yeah that's the angle that has to be pushed.

To me it's literally "everyone in the damn game has tried to kill me and scum was at the forefront of that and now here I sit with the weight of everyone's suspicion for my lack of game-energy upon my back."

i mean, mena was fighting pretty hard telling us you were town, but umm he never actually explained why he thought that

[Kovu]

oh snap everyone is here… ok let me wake up and solve this right now

[Kovu]

hey whats up

ngl i was kinda convinced overnight that it was kovu and that i had just been pocketed

BUT i kinda think kovu if scum would have been able to convince RR to shoot not her partner?

i just had a really hard time understanding gamma/fey as being the final two. but i guess maybe gamma was just willing to bus his whole team?

idk

i reread most of the hood last night and i don't think it's impossible for kovu to fake but it would be impressive if she kept up that willingness to effort the whole time

The bolded feels like a gross misunderstanding of R+R's angle like, most of the game regarding me, and I feel like you're way... smarter, frankly. To believe something like this and you're kind of going through the motions of like. Pretending to be paranoid.

However, I am aware that I have been wrong most of this game. If you have anything meaningful to present for Kovu scum other than the above, please do so now.

I read that bolded part like "I couldn't even get mena to tell me why he's confident fey is town, how would I ever get him to change his invictus?"
also the "I read the hood last night" right, the hood I barely talked in cause we were celebrating independence day on the 2nd? yeah...
Fey, last niht fire pretending to suddenly think it's me.. was just like, what even where does THIS come from??"

scum me had 0 need to out this hood at the start of d2... plus so much more..

[Kovu]

i dont think fey seemed scummy, i like what she posted so far she looks like shes trying to solve

Uhhh is this just the answer? fey not partner?? lmaoo cause I do not see partners saying this... I'll still read but like, literally just this post... I was ISOing for fire and saw this... hahhaa

[Kovu]

marci went "fey town fey town fey's vote was weird" like, overall... not lots better...

is fireisredsir historically bad with keeping up with hoods as scum?

i historically haven't played in a hood as scum

my one scumgame here was as amumu lol

NOOO WAIT U WERE AMUMUMUMU??? WHY DID IT GET ERASED FROM MY MEMORY.... I REMEMBER I WAS VIBING WITH AMUMUMUMU BUT I DIDNT REMEMBER WHO IT WAS....

is fireisredsir historically bad with keeping up with hoods as scum?

fire kept up, like it wasn't anything super bad, its mostly just been encouraging my bad takes and shutting down my good ones, the most recent is fire like telling me it's dumb I tr enchant or whatever then FIRE is trying to tell ME to use the hood to solve... EXCUSE ME... THERE'S ALMOST MORE POSTS IN THAT HOOD THAN IN HERE.... I HAVE BEEN SOLVING and literally every single thought I have had is in that PT (minus last night) not once did fire ask me my read on anyone in that PT, yet fire is NOW trying to tell me to solve or something.. lmao

oh did he give any reasons on why its "dumb to tr enchant"? the way ur describing it makes him seem scummy

i don't really think this is an accurate assessment of datisi as scum at all. have you read datisi scum games at all, and if not what made you come to this conclusion?

i havent seen datisi as scum at all and im not gonna meta read

i came to the conclusion because thats just how i think hes like, he gives very much vibes like hes doubtful in his abilities all the time to do stuff, am i wrong? i thought i remembered a game where he kept doubting his reads and going back and forth on them, but am i remembeing the wrong person?

@Marci what's up with the all caps posting??

i think i did that because i felt rushed, i know one of the posts i made at work and the other one while i was crossing the street

i imagine you very timid as scum

lol.

i- i- i-
go away.....
stop bullying me...
im not timid as scum... its just when i roll scum its always against people im scared of...
tbh i just generally play timid...
BUT THATS NOT MY POINT

i actually do think ur scum, and i actually do have reasons, but tbh a magician never reveals their secrets unless people ask

I actually like Fey for bandwagoning to Datisi, but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly

I like fey as well, she keeps asking questions and it seems like those questions are her trying to push the game forward so i think shes towny

Anyways,

Still voting Dwlee, if that wagon's not a thing then RIP. I don't actually know how to read Dunn.

If Meuh flares up I'll go there. Sure. Why not.

also yeah this feels weird idk y tho

fey, because earlier when i was looking at the votes on dwlees wagon her vote stuck out the most to me. it seemed pretty scummy and her other posts regarding dwlee do as well tbhs

cakez, 1) i dont fully believe all the "confirmed" ppl are telling the truth 2) i think alot of his content just mainly circles back to him susing a handful of people, i dont think hes trying to look at the full picture, theres alot of posts where hes just like "this is horrible/shitty/whatever he says" and i feel like thats just him trying to prevent progression of the game

gorilla, but only if luke is still so hell bent on them. i feel like we need to settle that feud between them or else luke will hella tunnel!! i also think it will help with sorting meuh because of their fight earlier this phase!!
i think alot of gorillas posts are just explainly explainly things, i think that would be pretty easy for scum to fake.

@marci, why did you choose to be on bell?

i thought maybe it would be better to incase bell was telling the truth
like, i feel like it couldve been likely for scum to want to try and kill him before he could actually clear himself, idk how dumb scumteam is but i remember a few games where me and meuh play where a shitton of clears happened and then the scumteam all got caught because they couldnt do shit about it. i thought maybe scumteam might try to prevent that sort of shit?

+

who else would i have targeted? i had no other options in mind LOL

[Kovu]

i said that i thought that scum!kovu would probably be able to convince RR to shoot town. since gamma flipped scum, that would just mean anyone but gamma.

kovu would almost certainly be able to convince RR to shoot me. she could just claim I slipped in hood or something

RR shot scum. that makes me think kovu is more likely to be town.

your response to that is that what I said doesn't fit with RR's trajectory on you. how is that relevant to the point i was making?

that's your "case" for why it's not me? lmaoooo

[Kovu]

I'm so conflicted. Everything inside me says fire is mafia. If I'm wrong... I'm going to be so upset...

[Kovu]

and for the record I think gamma was ALWAYS RR's shot there.. we were all pretty set on meuh/dunn/gamma team.

fire, how you were before the meuh flip was so odd, it literally felt like you were trying to do... something?? idk how to explain that.
Uhh I'm gonna go back to reading me outing the hood real quick


hahahaha would you look at that.. the game is in my hands.... frick

[Kovu]

Looking back Fey looks town - the early Datisi push was much more about info-gathering/discussing things with Datisi than pushing for them as a mis-elim. The Dwlee vote from her was a little weak on its own but the followup now to Meuh feels v. good. Tonally I like the posting a lot too, though that may just be me relating to it personally than it being strictly more likely to come from town than scum.

@Marci - since you're voting me how do you feel about my not-you reads? Or my votes yesterday after it become clear that you weren't going to get elim'd that game day? Do you think I'm more likely to be scum given the flips, and/or that anyone else is more likely to be town b/c of them?

@Meuh - Which of Cakez's reads do you think are iffy?

another scum member just openly calling fey town... I don't think I have EVER seen a scum do that for their partner, and here we have 2 calling fey town...

sorry fire... it's not looking good.. but I'm not dragging out the game, we'll end this tonight

[Kovu]

I am too conflicted and the longer this goes on, the worse I'll feel if wrong. I *REALLY* don't think I should decide tonight, so I'm not. I promise I will/am reading every single word yall say here, and actually thinking about what you're saying.

Just so you're kinda in the loop Fey, I have been asking Fire some questions from our hood PT in there, but have quickly realized I will never reach the fire!maf conclusion from that.

fire, can you link me a scum game of yours? I would love to see what that looks like

but I'm going to bed, I'm exhausted. at the end of the day, I want to make the right choice. If it was easy I'd have voted by now I'll be around in about 12 hours from now... maybe. but I need to sit down, look at all my facts. figure out what I want to do. and weigh out every single option. if I had to pick one of yall RIGHT NOW... I'm honestly not even sure who I'd go with


feel free to build good town cases or scum cases on each other, anything said on D6 can only help you!

[Kovu]

So, I pulled up the Dunn/marci/gamma ISO, and control F'd Fey and fire. And my takeaway is, I think scum was planning on Gamma endgaming, thus all of gamma's "Dunn and fey" lines, I'm pretty sure, I want to vote Fey right now. However, I'm going to step away, get some fresh air, then return to this and look at a different angle and see if I feel the same way,

Like, I compared fire's posts here to fire!town/scum games and like, this seems to match up well with town!fire, and the way maf interacted with fire, was just so different from how they interacted with each other, I'm confused on what the maf plan even was... just bus each other till the end? but yeah, in that iso, it definitely looks like Gamma was positioning himself to be the scum that endgamed? idk, looking at the dunn/marci/gamma ISO it's just like, those 3... I really think it's fey. I'll probably be back in around 3 hours, but yeah. Last night I was deadset on it being fire, told myself to wait, see if I felt the same way. and now, I'm pretty certain it's fey. So gonna give it some time, then return to this.

@Fey, I have 1 question for you, what caused you to vote fire so fast here? Cause in my mind, if you're maf planning on just doing that, you'd just kill me and leave RR alive, but I SR you, so that clearly wasn't the plan? So just, without a doubt, you TRed me? I'm just trying to figure this out. and I want yall to have equal chance to defend yourselves so I can make the right decision here

Spoiler: Posts from the 3maf ISO for Fey being maf

I want to say this is Marci's towngame off the top of my head. Not freezing up, replying/responding to a few different things. Seems out of the scope for her from what I recall.

VOTE: Bell

Skimmed Lavar and Bell, Lavar feels... in his own little world sort of deal. Like the read on Dunnstral of all people as potentially shady feels out there in a world where scum!Lavar probably doesn't need to be right now. Is a weird place to fixate. Just seems like he's doing his own thing.

Bell feels on the fringes and like. I dunno. I have an expectation of something "more" as vague as it is, but he feels very shady with the things he's posting and also just like "eh, whatever" to questions, all that. A presence that doesn't really want to be around at all but knows he has to be, and like... throwing out whatever thoughts because he has to, given prior games where he spews out his thoughts and boom everyone reads him right.

@Someone, I think VP asked me about Marci and what she could/couldn't post, compare 213 to like, Holiday Dance Party, where she was a lot more sheepish I feel. Here she's all attitude and bite and I feel that's more of a hallmark of her as town.

I’ve jumped around in vote a few times. I’ve given some takes that I think should be more memorable (Lavar town, Marci town). Not a lot but I’m not going to force myself to give a lot.

Just because you don’t remember it doesn’t mean it’s not there though. Shrug.

Obligatory I still think Lavar is town.

I don’t particularly like the alternative of Marci but I don’t have a great grasp of what else I would do wagonwise. Probably not Luke/Kovu/fire/gorilla and shrug at the rest. My reasons for those names is just memory of goodvibes when I was reading closer than I am now.

VOTE: Marcistar

VOTE: Dwlee

Choo choo.

Fey talks Marci up as town due to meta early on, and brings it back in 735. Then they vote for Marci for seemingly no reason. The top 2 wagons are Lavar and Dwlee at this point, Marci isn't in contention. And then they quickly switch to Dwlee after with no reasoning.

I like fey as well, she keeps asking questions and it seems like those questions are her trying to push the game forward so i think shes towny

i dont think fey seemed scummy, i like what she posted so far she looks like shes trying to solve

i dont have alot of time to like type up thoughts since im at work for like another 4 hrs, and then ill be sleeping but if u have anything ur curious abt u can juat ask (:
i think gammagooey has a couple of agreeable takes but they piss me off so dont tell them i said that im not sure what i think of them tho aince the agreeable takes are v basic takes
i think kouvs town but i wouldnt trust them leading anything because theyre too emotional about things and too reactivey
balters i would say how self centered he is, i dont like that, so he scummy
fey towny
sircakez scummy, the bandwagoning is not good vibes at all
i dont like vals view of the invixtus mechanic because it reminds me of a diff game i played w him, but otherwise hes mid, he has some good thoughts

idk who else exists

Anyways,

Still voting Dwlee, if that wagon's not a thing then RIP. I don't actually know how to read Dunn.

If Meuh flares up I'll go there. Sure. Why not.

also yeah this feels weird idk y tho

fey, because earlier when i was looking at the votes on dwlees wagon her vote stuck out the most to me. it seemed pretty scummy and her other posts regarding dwlee do as well tbhs

On Marci's side, she barely talks abotu fey. Starting with a townread that is not well explained, a long period of silence, and then switching to a scumread which I think is weird because I'm not sure what motivation Marci has to switch reads here when they are gaining pressure unless it's to distance. I don't think Fey was a likely elimination, and in fact Dwlee flipped town and was almost eliminated but Marci didn't vote there.

The interactions between the two feel partnered to me.

VOTE: Fey

VOTE: Fey
It looks like Dunn and Meuh already went into this a bit but Fey definitely looks the worst from D1 play at a glance - was one of the people suggesting marci-town for meta, votes were Datisi->Bell->VPB->marci with a caveat that she doesn't even like the wagon->Dwlee

Dwlee investigate is understandable but Datisi investigate doesn't make sense to me personally - if you're gonna use a 2-shot detective role n1 and basically make it variant tracker, is theoretical Datisi-scum really going to make the kill when he's been tunnelled by marci all day? And remember this is from Fey's perspective so with a marci town-read she presumably wouldn't have "Marci+Datisi scumbuddies" as anywhere near a likely possibility given her d1 read on marci

I don't think it has more than a tiny chance of happening but no quick elims til after I can go over more stuff plz

----------------
This is somewhat obvious but prob needs to be said for whoever suggested Cakez dead just to stop neighborizing from happening given Val's claim - Cakez can presumably just stop using his neighborize ability at this point

Haven't done much re-reading aside from a skim of marci's iso and going over Fey a bit yet - I get why people are saying Cakez was overconfident on marci but I'm still leaning him-town. Meuh I'll probably go over more tonight, her gorilla & marci thoughts in particular were ???? but man does that feel borderline suicidal to do with marci as a scumpartner

Also I got a fruit and a T-shirt last night which probably came from VPB given his flip?

Yeah looking at EOD when Marci was giving her suspicions she had me/gorilla/Cakez. Just gonna rule of three this and move on assuming Cakez is a hit.

Didn't I just go on a rant about how "rule of 3" is dumb lazy garbo in Slaughter Hour? it's fine to use with other info but using on its own is terrible

Gamma, do you think that Marci gave three reads in a place of pressure that did not include her partner?

Wouldn't be that surprised, but also think you're the one person in there most likely to flip scum

It also wasn't her "these are my 3 strongest scum reads" because if so then she'd probably feel forced to include me on it b/c she tunneled on me instead of trying to play the game all of day 2 until some actual pressure finally got put on her, if I remember right it was "these are 3 people who can possibly be elim'd instead of me", which is gonna be more reflective of other people's reads and wagons at the time and who CAN die, not just "oh let me throw out 3 reads and put a scum on them for distancing"

Gamma, do you think that Marci gave three reads in a place of pressure that did not include her partner?

Wouldn't be that surprised, but also think you're the one person in there most likely to flip scum

It also wasn't her "these are my 3 strongest scum reads" because if so then she'd probably feel forced to include me on it b/c she tunneled on me instead of trying to play the game all of day 2 until some actual pressure finally got put on her, if I remember right it was "these are 3 people who can possibly be elim'd instead of me", which is gonna be more reflective of other people's reads and wagons at the time and who CAN die, not just "oh let me throw out 3 reads and put a scum on them for distancing"

I don't like the votes on Fey right now. Who are your other scum reads?

The 3 people that stuck out most to me when I went over marci's iso a bit overnight were Fey, Lukewarm (rip), & Kovu

Kovu's crossvote and push on marci felt like it came out of nowhere and seemed pretty plausible as a end of day distance/bus that went wrong and got attention when scum-marci didn't expect it to. Kovu's actual votes have been pretty mediocre aside from the one on marci imo, they're putting a ton of effort into the game but they're my personal pick for a potential deepwolf
Dunn & Meuh are leftover scumreads from yesterday - Dunn is still a fine vote even though I think marci would prob have refused to vote with me on Dunn yesterday regardless of Dunn's alignment, Meuh miiight still be too but I need to reread a fair bit and see how much that actually makes sense

p-edit: What makes you think Kovu is v. likely town aside from *effort* gorilla? Also when you're done reading up lmk who you're most confident on being scum atm

I'm leaning pretty hard towards a scumteam of Fey+Dunn+a mystery 4th atm. (I don't think 5 scum is likely and even if that's the case I don't think it really changes anything I'm about to go over).
For Fey, first I wanna say that I think that them getting emotional today could come from either alignment and that regardless of their alignment the position they're in this game is stressful. I don't think Detective fits nearly as well as Val's Traffic Analyst claim does given Bell's Friendly Neighbor+other Neighbors/izer that have been claimed and I don't get why she'd investigate Datisi in particular over other players when marci & VPB specifically were scumreading/commenting on Dats by the end of day 1 and she'd need to target specifically the scum player making the kill. She pushed marci-town early and then mostly dropped out of the game aside from pushing Dwlee day 2. The lack of activity is actually pretty null imo, but I brought up that day that I agreed with her point that relying on LLD's reads to semi-clear people was a bad idea for marci particularly when she was pushing for Dwlee scum, and that never got acknowledged by her even as marci continued doing basically nothing, which should have fit her idea of marci freezing up. And there's the random marci reads on Fey that Meuh pointed out, town with no reasoning d1 and then swapping to scum for a "weird post" d2 2088 and explaining later that it's because of her vote on the Dwlee wagon 2216, which unless I'm missing something was only mentioned by marci here before that:

guys tbh just looking at dwlees iso in that game and remembering my memory of how he acts as town

i feel like he does more as scum than he has here

Like individually I think a few of those could come from Fey-town, but I don't think it all does together.

For Dunn, it mostly just comes down to me still hating his day 1 and early day 2 play. His question to Cakez just asking "what about me?" in response to Cakez saying she (marci) is not really scumhunting is bad, and yes I know Dunn will say that he wasn't voting anyone either, the point is that thinking marci wasn't scumhunting was perfectly reasonable and true and Dunn decided to pick at the fact that he wasn't voting either instead of addressing the actually valid part of Cakez's argument. He also talks to/about marci a bit & discusses her arguments for Datisi scum (you can look up these on Meuh's 2233 instead of me pulling up the same posts) but doesn't actually make a stand on her alignment until day 2 (w/ post 1234), before that it's just pokes and questions without an actual read on marci being shared, and later he goes back on it for Luke's reasons to townread marci instead of having any of his own. I still think a ton of his posts through the first two days feel more like nitpicks and arguments he's trying to win or look good in than actually get reads on understand the points of who he's talking to, and I think that type of behavior is much more likely to come from scum than town.

Meuh I've read over pretty much her whole iso now at this point and still feel conflicted. One thing I wanna bring up is that I think that Meuh & Dunn are pretty damn unlikely to be scum together. The gorilla pushes, and now the Fey push, and the way they behaved around marci is just too similar in a game where any scumbuddy could die at any time to Invictus and one person's read on you can end your life, and I think it makes a lot more sense that Meuh got blinded by her friend's play than Dunn. If I'm wrong about Dunn then I think she's at least a reasonable guess at scum, but also I think it's likely I was overly tunneled on her gorilla push - I still don't like it and it's probably going to be bouncing in the back of my brain every now and again until either she's deceased or the game's over, but if I put most of that aside, I do think her point about scum seeing the setup as more town-sided than it is and vice-versa was more likely to come from a town mindset than scum even if I don't agree with its conclusion of gorilla being scum, her marci questioning+mentions day 2 in particular were generally reasonable and definitely at least felt better than the random pointless pokes it felt like Dunn was giving to marci, and similar to her point on gorilla I like her post 1287 where she goes over what she thought was iffy about Cakez and reconsiders a bit that she may have disliked where Cakez's focus was but acknowledges that she's not sure how justified that was in retrospect.

Cakez I feel like I understand at least partly where the reads are coming from, in that Cakez has felt fairly lazy this game imo but has also been both aggressive towards particularly marci-scum but to a lesser degree other people who scumread him (gorilla, Lukewarm, & Val around #1306) and was correct on both of Lavar & marci, and I totally get that it feels weird for him to be all of lazy+aggressive+correct on both elims so far. He probably deserves some extra scrutiny for that, but I still don't think his pushes make him likely scum.
----------------------------------
It's like 2:40am so I'm stopping for the night here. I'll do my best to pick this back up tomorrow night, but I Would like other people's thoughts on the above if you have time and/or you've got a strong opinion on either of Fey/Dunn (doesn't have to be long but I'd very appreciate a couple sentences of "I agree/disagree/see where you're coming from but X/etc" )

@Kovu - I think gorilla had a point day 2 I think it was that a couple of Enchant posts (when Enchant talked about potentially allowing themselves to be vigged) were more likely to come from town.

now, am I willing to bet the game on that? absolutely not and I will be pretty surprised if they're not dead within the next 2 day/night cycles. I also have no comment on whether or not I personally will have my invictus on Enchant tonight.
Do I want to elim them over one of Fey/Dunn today though? Not really.

also I'm still not actually voting yet am I
VOTE: Dunn

@gorilla if you have some overall Cakez thoughts I'd like to hear them before the end of the day - I get the points regarding him + marci but I'd like to know what you think of his overall play/attitude so far this game particularly.

@Meuh - Dunn Fey and a deepwolf - probably one of fire/Kovu, and if I had to say this instant I'd say Kovu. I know that people will think that opinion is garbo but I really think that one scum has likely been putting a ton of effort into the game and set themselves up to actually live through the ridiculous number of Invictus shots this game has, because otherwise you're just asking to get gunned down halfway through the game by random Invictus shots.

Cakez doesn't make sense as scum with my two strongest scumreads of Fey/Dunn

Why?

also if you swap Fey and enchant we're at almost the same place

also I think Val was towny even before the claim, what're your issues there? I still think you can easily be scum btw but S_S thinks you're pretty hard town so I'm deferring to him

~Rhyme

Fey & Dunn have both been going after Cakez from Day 2 and have continued to go after him today, Cakez has been pushing Dunn pretty solidly and repeatedly pushed to kill marci - i guess it's technically possible that their solution to salvage the game is/was "turn it into a big bussing clusterfuck" but I feel like it's rarer for scumteams to actually go for that than maybe it should be?

Val I also had as a town-lean and I haven't done much rereading on, though I don't think from memory that there's a ton to go on in previous days, just a few comments to marci that I think were meh contrasted with his day 2 posts seeming town but not outstandingly so. Regardless I'm confident on my Fey+Dunn reads that at least one of them is scum there and I personally think likely both, whereas assuming that I'm right on both of them my 4th scum read is more guessing than anything I'm willing to stake on atm.

Dunn, you and Fey's posts Day 1 and Day 2 look to me like they could easily share a goal of interacting with marci while not actually applying any pressure to her at all (which I've gone over in my last big reads post with you and Fey in 2441). The other major issue I have is that except for your interactions on page 3 of the game, it doesn't seem like either of you two give any attempt to try to read the other until you come out with a case on her at the start of Day 3. Granted, I don't think Fey was ever a significant wagon on days 1 or 2, but you were, and when you were Fey just continued pushing Dwlee, mentioned that Meuh was an option she'd consider too, and once your wagon had passed you just both mention that you have the other as null.


I'm putting the interactions I found significant between you two below - If I missed any interactions before day 3 between you two that you think are significant, pull 'em up or give a post # and let me know
-You two had a little back and forth discussion on page 3 where you both townread each other
-There's a bit from you about Kovu/Fey being on alts in a different game
-You ask marci some questions that maybe could theoretically in the future lead to a scum read on marci but don't and Fey actively says that marci is town for not freezing up/meta/etc
-Fey puts you as flat null in her votecount analysis of the Day 1 Lavar/Dwlee wagons and doesn't mention you at all
-Dunn wagon starts with more people than gorilla+me around page 66, Fey had voted Dwlee earlier and continues pushing on him here

I was Dwlee’s partner in Geriatric, lmao.

Anyways.

Don’t be feely vote for Dwlee.

-You also don't mention Fey at all in your readslist when I finally drag it out of you day 2 in 1723
-Fey says to Dwlee she's pretty tunneled on them dying and that she'll entertain a Meuh wagon if people want to kill her, asks Dwlee what about the posts he quoted from Dunn are appeasing

Dwlee can you now explain how what you post in 1711 relates to this game

So you've pointed out something in another game, but where does it come up in this game? The so-called derisive OMGUS, as it were.

Also I'm interested in what the tonal differences you mentioned in 1660 are

You are being more differential I think. Like posts like these feel very appeasy is the way I would put it, which is also what Noraa has described as being your scum game

What part of these are appeasing...?

-You mention Fey again here

Fey, Enchant are null and I don't have a good grasp on them. Fey stands out as not usually being this reserved, I think.

-Fey mentions you here

Anyways,

Still voting Dwlee, if that wagon's not a thing then RIP. I don't actually know how to read Dunn.

If Meuh flares up I'll go there. Sure. Why not.

And I think that's it until Day 3 starts and you start with a case and a vote on her.

[Kovu]

mmk yeah, like, your read on me isn't the dealbreaker just cause yeah, I seriously need your help seeing Fire!maf I almost just can't see it right now

[Kovu]

hmm I'll read some posts like "ehhh could be from either alignment" but then I read this and I'm like, I don't think fire could be partnered with gamma

Like the only reason I could get for people voting him is that his posting is a little stilted and that his self-admitted tinfoil of Datisi & Marci being scum together is bad. Like he knows nobody's going to agree with it, that's why he said it's tinfoil, and I still think his early posts were good with him flatly saying what he thinks but being open to looking at other things/potentially being wrong about early reads.

Exactly
There's not really anything I can point to for Lavar scum but many things I can for other people scum

a relevant example from this game is right here

when gamma made the quoted post, i thought it was kinda scummy at first bc i felt like he was minimizing and dismissing the case on lavar, as if he had already come to a conclusion on it and wasn't looking at the evidence presented. so i talked to gamma about it, and he was willing to listen, read the case i had, disagreed with parts of it and agreed with parts of it, and it looked at least like he had at least some progression in his read over the course of the conversation

cakez, in contrast, comes in and quotes the original post and says exactly. it's still not true, but hey, maybe he'll read the conversation i had with gamma and that will have some impact on his read. since if he's in the same place that gamma was at the time of that quote, i would expect him to also have some sort of development when he realizes that the original statement of there being no reasons for the lavar wagon was untrue

but he didn't, at all. he just kept moving forward with the townread that he had already decided on and only commented on new information that would support that read, ignoring information that wouldn't

[Kovu]

I have never been more unsure in my entire freaking life.. why do I even play mafia... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
cause yes. the second meuh flipped town it was like "hmm kovu maf?" like, what? I thought it was just a simple gamma/fey? now we're questioning me? but like, I would think fire!maf would bus... someone... like, he didn't bus anyone, and honestly encouraged me to push marci there day 2 when I was unsure, I was like maybe.... and he was like "I could see it" or something and I thought that was good... I'm actually so torn now. I don't want to drag this game on, but I'm literally changing my mind every 2 seconds

[Kovu]

Also like, the Val kill makes 0 sense from fire. We were discussing how we thought Val was maf, and his reaction to that town flip was just like mine.. aghhhh

[Kovu]

Oh right, this was a thing too, like, scum had no need to campaign for an enchant lim? uhh I need to see the other wagons at the time

ok I just had a thought, maybe it's dumb but hear me out

am i 100% convinced enchant is maf? no, not at all

when i try to imagine what scum teams there could be, is enchant on the vast majority of them? yes

does enchant 100% need to be resolved before elo? yes

and the thing I realized is... even on the off chance that enchant is town here, im pretty sure scum would actually want them not to be limmed? like, think about it. if we flip someone else today, im guessing a lot of the town will be heading into the night with invictus on enchant. i know i probably will. people are tired of hero shots, and just want to narrow the poe. it makes sense. but thats actually shielding for scum. if they know that enchant is town, then they want everyone's invictus on them because invictus shots are much harder to predict compared to their ability to influence the lim during the day. limming enchant removes that shield and makes it harder for them to feel safe with their night kill

and the pretty likely alternative is that enchant is just scum. so it's a win win

VOTE: Enchant

[Kovu]

that was to save cakez... and I'd almost bet scum wanted cakez to go over

[Kovu]

Sorry if I'm wrong, I'll be ending the day real soon, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm gonna do, not gonna drag this out 7 days to not change my mind. you both have really strong points FOR you, but what it's coming down to most is Gamma/Dunn/marci's interactions with yall, and yall's interactions with them tbh

[Kovu]

Ok, I have my decision. It was not easy and I went back and forth a bunch, but this is what I'm gonna do. If I'm wrong. I'm sorry, just given the situation, I've tried my absolute best. I'm not blaming this hammer on anyone, if it's wrong... ahhhh I'm sorry!! but... here's the end.. of a very long game. Looking back, I'm sure there is so much we'd all have done differently. At the end of the day, I hope all yall had a good time!

But now the serious stuff... I just.. I really think it's Fey, there is SO MUCH from fire, that I genuinely can't see coming from maf.
Fire, if you were mafia? That was an amazing job. like, there's a lot I've looked at and I'm just like, ehh maybe this 1 thing could make fire scum, but overall... I can't justify fire being mafia over Fey here.

Alright here we go.... ahhhhh I'm so nervous, like it should just be Fey, but if it's not... AHHHHHHHH

VOTE: Fey

[Kovu]

FIRE!!!!

good game yall! I had fun! sorry I lost it for us at the end :/
well played though fire!

[Kovu]

I honestly still can't believe fire was mafia.... that PT was with mafia..... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that PT was so much fun though....

[Kovu]

Subject: Mafia Invictus Redux - Hotel California (Dead/Spec) PT

I love Andante but after making that VC, where she had 6 consecutive votes/unvotes at a time when nobody else placed one, I think my biggest fear in life would be deciding on a place to eat with her

Getting lunch with Andante

"food...food yes food!!! pizza? yes pizza sounds delicious lets gooooooooo!!!!

3 minutes of walking to pizza shop

omg is that ice cream? can we stop and get ice cream? i know we usually wait until after but i reallyyyyy want some ice cream!!!!

step into shop, wait in line for 2 minutes

there's so many flavors!!! i don't know what to get!!! actually nevermind if we eat this we won't have room for pizza i don't feel like it anymore let's go back to pizza im excited!!!!!

oooo are those vietnamese noodles???"

LOL PRISM