Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Saudade

[Flavor Leaf]

@Saudade - should we vote Rocky or Dough?

Both are worthy of being voted right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, excited to play with Krazy especially considering that large game just finished today, and I was dead way early.

Show me what you got. If you rolled scum, good luck.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Saudade

oh no

oh boy

this is all Flavor's fault

How is it his fault?

I feel this is a natural response, and could easily see that i naked RVS’d him in my first post, then Saudade got some votes after.

I don’t feel the “How is it his fault?” question matters because it’s not overly serious no matter what the answer to that question is since it’s so early.

This seems like forced content. While it is early, i think it’s a good starting point. :shrug:

VOTE: Doughboy

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, that was Rocky’s first post, and I semi appreciated the multi quote.

The “This feels weird” followed by a vote seemed genuine, and just an option wanting to be explored rather than a full on scum read, which at this point in the game would “feel weird”

[Flavor Leaf]

Whereas Doughboy was actually pinged by you, and then attempted discrediting with the “how is it his fault?” by talking down to you a little.

I can appreciate Rocky using that as a starting point to get themselves into the game. Scum could just lurk out and not draw that kindness of attention to themselves like that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I dont know, Rocky's post seems to be of no substance but to announce themselves into the game "casually"

Fair, but why is that more likely to come from scum than town?

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: DoughBpy
On Guard!
Defend yourself!

Hmm, you’re actually on Doughboy right now, unlesss I missed where you changed. I know this was RVS, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lol.

You wanna play hardball? Let’s go.

Your entire case on me is based on me coming into the game voting someone who you are pinging green. It was the top of page 2.
It was an RVS vote. This is further proven by when Saudade gets wagoned, I move off of him onto someone else.

Out of this player list, and history with Saudade, of course I’m going to RVS Saudade. I feel even he saw that as a nothing RVS vote, and when he posted “this is all Flavor’s fault” I felt a little giddy, because his wagon was obviously not going to be hard pushed at that point, and he knew my vote was RVS.

It was literally my first post in the game, and the top of page 2.

And you quoted a post i said asking Saudade a question about why it’s more likely to come from scum than town and assuming I am pushing Saudade as scum?

I’m not pushing Saudade as scum. In fact, if you want to look at my other posts, you can clearly see I was trying to work WITH Saudade about the people who were voting him after me. Saudade is an early town read for me right now.

Literally every single point you just true to make against me has been made completely moot, which personally, I feel was already an incredibly reach case made a step context clues and my posts show that literally nothing you said was accurate.

You also hid it in the middle of your giant fluff post.

VOTE: Naomi

This isn’t an OMGUS. You don’t have a case on me. You aren’t scum reading me. All those reasons have been proven the opposite.

[Flavor Leaf]

My hid it comment I retract after your follow up post.

Saudade is like my only town read thus far, maybe Rocky, so your entire case is crap and fabricated.

[Flavor Leaf]

I came to this site in 2013/2014 era, and I know how the 2010-2012 people work moreso than anyone because of it. You can see the different styles of play.

Naomi took a poor stance expecting to be able to take a hard stance somewhere and be able to pounce on some flaws while looking townie off of it, and don’t get me wrong, that was a decent play.

Naomi just didn’t account for Saudade and I to have history together in the sense that of course I would RVS him there, pretty like obviously.

@Saudade - I feel it was pretty obvious I was gonna RVS you before I even posted, was it not? Am i just crazy?

[Flavor Leaf]

I think doughboy isn't familiar with site meta or something.

Yeah, I’m still figuring out my thoughts on Doughboy. I see some townie ness in him, but it’s early.

Naomi blew her load way too early and every single one of her reasons for scum reading me have been thrown out the window.

I’m eager to find out what she pulls out now to try to merit her push on me still.

[Flavor Leaf]

I came to this site in 2013/2014 era, and I know how the 2010-2012 people work moreso than anyone because of it. You can see the different styles of play.

Naomi took a poor stance expecting to be able to take a hard stance somewhere and be able to pounce on some flaws while looking townie off of it, and don’t get me wrong, that was a decent play.

Naomi just didn’t account for Saudade and I to have history together in the sense that of course I would RVS him there, pretty like obviously.

@Saudade - I feel it was pretty obvious I was gonna RVS you before I even posted, was it not? Am i just crazy?

The 2013-2014 comment was because I’m right dab in the middle between the older style and the newer style.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, @Profii - why are you voting my town read?

[Flavor Leaf]

I town read Saudade for our Page 3 conversation mainly.

Also, Naomi pushed some of my quotes saying I was scum reading Saudade from that page, while in actuality, I was legit working WITH Saudade to try and come to a collective read on someone.

Naomi is discrediting collective thought process.

This is a scum slot, and she thought she could turn the game into her favor and become town leader with her big wall post, which I completely dismantled, by the way, and she has zero actual reads on me now.

Again, I eagerly await what she makes up to push me further.

[Flavor Leaf]

And just so you know, I start the game with a town read on everyone anyways. That way, I’m more correct than the people who are null reading everyone.

It also helps me see things coming from a town perspective, and helps solidify my town reads. If something doesn’t add up or comes across suspicious to me, that’s when they’re no longer a town read.

Then I beat it to the ground!!!!

I do this also because a lot of things people do are really NAI, and people get pushed as scummy for NAI things, and I try to not do that.

[Flavor Leaf]

We are neighbors

??

Glad you brought this up. I noticed that and forgot about it once I got back on to ScumNaomi.

[Flavor Leaf]

@doughboy - he asked you that, yet when I talked about Doughboy vs Rocky, he chose to go Rocky over you.

I think I find that townier of Krazy.


However, I think I’m starting to lean town on Doughboy.

[Flavor Leaf]

@profii - I wanna town read you. Help me out. You pinged me.

[Flavor Leaf]

@profii - I wanna town read you. Help me out. You pinged me.

Profii/Flavor duo needs to link up and win this, but I don’t care for your Saudade vote.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think dough is town but I am now annoyed

If it helps, your posts on this page has helped me shake off any paranoia i was getting from you. Maybe starting to town read dough actually did that...

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm inclined to vote whoever didnt post yet as these people annoy me the most

Missed this

UNVOTE:

Missed this

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I wanna get back to the “budding up to someone who was definitely trending green”.

I was already starting to want to work with Saudade, which means I saw there as town, why wouldn’t I want to work with my fellow townspeople.

This is a blatant trying to disrupt townies from working alongside each other because that’s what ends scum teams.

Absolutely zero reasons you have for scum reading now that your entire case just blew up, so again...

Eager to see what you create to continue pushing me. I really am. I hope you’re creative with it, and don’t get sloppy with your fabricating next time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I wanna get back to the “budding up to someone who was definitely trending green”.

I was already starting to want to work with Saudade, which means I saw there as town, why wouldn’t I want to work with my fellow townspeople.

This is a blatant trying to disrupt townies from working alongside each other because that’s what ends scum teams.

Absolutely zero reasons you have for scum reading now that your entire case just blew up, so again...

Eager to see what you create to continue pushing me. I really am. I hope you’re creative with it, and don’t get sloppy with your fabricating next time.

Talking about Naomi.

[Flavor Leaf]

Doughboi, flavor flav town pile. Krazy too I guess just for the neighbor thing.

This is townie to town read both neighbors even though the neighbors or going after each other, yet not getting wagoned. If they were getting wagon’d it would be different, but this doesn’t give town cred didn’t to preventing of a flip rather than trying to create it.

This is a town trajectory thus far.

[Flavor Leaf]

I town read Saudade for our Page 3 conversation mainly.

I don’t really see anything alignment indicative in that exchange. Overall his posts have been scummy. Please explain what you see that’s townie cause I don’t understand

Saudade and I have history, so he knew from the beginning my RVS wasnt real, and his posts tone comes off as scummy, but it’s really rather NAI. He felt piled on and got dry and sarcastic with it. When talking with me, he did actually try to explain his thought process even though we had different thought processes at the time, and that’s townie to me. Seemed genuine.

[Flavor Leaf]

@doughboy - he asked you that, yet when I talked about Doughboy vs Rocky, he chose to go Rocky over you.

I think I find that townier of Krazy.


However, I think I’m starting to lean town on Doughboy.

If he’s trying to get me to let my guard down, he wouldn’t want to vote me.

Fair point. I understand your thought process with it.

From his perspective, though, couldn’t he see you as scum and trying to see how you react? Why does he have to be scum? Why can’t you both be town and not know anything yet?

[Flavor Leaf]

Due* not didnt.

[Flavor Leaf]

Due* not didnt.

Basically I was trying to say, yes, you could say that action was scummy by you could, but it’s only scummy it flips are planned to happen out of the actio, and by all means I saw your post as further preventing those flips from happening, which is townie. Scum wouldn’t want to stop those flips from happening this early on. You don’t get any town cred from that because there’s no flippage.

[Flavor Leaf]

@doughboy - he asked you that, yet when I talked about Doughboy vs Rocky, he chose to go Rocky over you.

I think I find that townier of Krazy.


However, I think I’m starting to lean town on Doughboy.

If he’s trying to get me to let my guard down, he wouldn’t want to vote me.

Fair point. I understand your thought process with it.

From his perspective, though, couldn’t he see you as scum and trying to see how you react? Why does he have to be scum? Why can’t you both be town and not know anything yet?

I don’t think we are both town. I may be naive here and my lack of experience on this site showing, but I can’t ever see a possibility where the first game related post is asking if I’m a Pr. Like if he wanted to feel me out he could ask about reads or something. I never would even think to ask that question unless I was pretty comfortable with someone and definitely not day 1.

While I understand not everyone plays like me, there are also logic that has to be considered. I can’t see the logic behind town Krazy asking that question.

What scum flat out asks if someone’s a PR out of nowhere, though?

[Flavor Leaf]

Read the player based on if you find them townie or scummy, don’t focus on being in the neighborhood makes them more likely, that’s just outguessing the mod.

Also, I don’t feel like getting into it with Naomi right now. It wasn’t a misrep. I see what you meant now, the rest still stands because why wouldn’t try to work with people I town read? Especially if it’s a player I already know.

[Flavor Leaf]

You can self vote for town AtE. Or Scum trying to mimic town AtE. Actually that’s a reason in itself not to self vote.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Naomi’s response was incredibly lackluster, and focused on one thing, and just didn’t care to acknowledge any of the rest.

Happy with my vote. Her non existent scum read is obvious at this point.

That last post was far less confident than her last wall as well which is a scum trying to piece together a case to try and fix their trajectory.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like literally everything is taken apart from Naomi’s case with a “why wouldn’t I work with my town reads?”

There’s absolutely no reason for that, and she has nothing else, but screwed over her trajectory because she didn’t know I’d be able to explain logically why she is wrong, or at the very least, why it is NAI at best.

[Flavor Leaf]

He flavor normally arrogant? I get an arrogant vibe and it’s sort of off putting.

Yeah. Mainly early game, though, and later in games I go pretty hard.

I don’t really feel like replying to all of Naomi’s things, to be honest.

That feels like doing the most.

[Flavor Leaf]

Naomi just pushes everything that I do as town and pushes it as Red, so I really just don’t feel like dealing with it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I go about thinking all of my reads are correct until something shows me otherwise. Even if I’m only like 15% sure, imma go forth like i am right, because it helps me heighten that percentage or lower that percentage. I flip flop a lot, but I do it with confidence.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I’ve already stated that I see everyone as town from rather than null read them. I’ve said this at least 5 times on site, possibly upwards of 15 times, so i can prove that if you’d like me to go search for all that, but I’d rather not, so yes, i would assume they’re green with that mindset.

I’ve already stated that this game too, so that’s just another meaningless argument you had to pile on top.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, I’m a fantastic scum player I don’t understand why you are pointing out completely flawed posts. I went on a two and a half year scum streak starting late 2014, maybe early 2015.

It’s a known fact I’m scummier when I’m town, if you want me to link some stuff, because you obviously need some meta work with the type of crappy pushes you’re trying to push.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, reading Naomi’s posts are kind of a yawn fest, and I’m almost wanting to pursue other options just so I don’t have to deal with it. Can you send your scum partner to come 1v1 me instead, Naomi?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, with people I know, I generally don’t like to scum read them even more until later. Not worth it in my opinion, because I have a better chance at reading them later.

Plus, I’m a heavy reaction test player, so there’s literally no downside to seeing everyone as green from he very beginning.

I know I’m wrong on a few people when I do that, obviously, but because of it I end up having the most correct read s in the beginning of the game every time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I literally almost fell asleep reading Naomi’s fluff/irrelevant posts here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I wanna get back to the “budding up to someone who was definitely trending green”.

I was already starting to want to work with Saudade, which means I saw there as town, why wouldn’t I want to work with my fellow townspeople.

This is a blatant trying to disrupt townies from working alongside each other because that’s what ends scum teams.

Absolutely zero reasons you have for scum reading now that your entire case just blew up, so again...

Eager to see what you create to continue pushing me. I really am. I hope you’re creative with it, and don’t get sloppy with your fabricating next time.

this is nearer the core of what I was looking at.

As Green you don't know if someone is green or not until you get some soft reads, do a bit of interaction. you know the usual stuff.

on your second post you entered basically treating them near confirmed. this may be you knowing there meta as you have eluded to, but I am not aware of either of your meta's so on this part I can only take your word (or read other games, but Im a slow reader)

I could see you acting more friendly by the bottom of page 3 where you and him share discussion and where I got my town vibe from him, but your green read on him pre-dates things I would say are very alignment indicative.

If your red of course you would know alignment ahead of time and given your past history you may of decided to establish a positive relationship with a player you know is a stronger one on the site. but this is only true in an environment where you are red of course, though post 52 may have eluded to past activities on post 95 I had not noticed it.

So.. I found your level of comfort with green Saudade alarming upon entering. then as I had seen the rest of page 3 continued I felt your level of cooperation was abnormal for people who should have base line suspicions as we work each other out.

Like this is completely irrelevant because I had already stated I green everyone from the beginning of the game in this game.

I can link MULTIPLE games where I have said this when I’m not lazy if you’d like, but this fluffy wall that took me to boredomtown is completely irrelevant.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also covering 107 and 119
specifically these two lines;

Naomi is discrediting collective thought process.

This is a blatant trying to disrupt townies from working alongside each other because that’s what ends scum teams

Now looking at 95 again specifically where I voted.;

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

So... as mentioned he entered being paly towards Saudade who I have a nice green vibe off of, then proceeds to question everything he says..
It just.. doesn't gel with me like... its just off... feels off.. I expect someone with more experiance can more eloquently put this train of thought.

Obviously I put it in slightly more clear terms since as I still couldn't quite put my finger on it at the time.
I don't think I was saying anything along the lines of what he is accusing me of in 107 and 119 and on reading it I could see how it could be taken as "107//119 though my intent was merely to highlight the friendly discourse so early when we should be suspicious still is, in its self, suspicious

While I can see why this could be seen that way BEFORE I mentioned having history and the green reading of everyone prior, afterwards this is yet another irrelevant post that is completely explained by the thing I’ve Beene xolaining over and over this game.

Same cup of coffee, same boring desk job. Every single post.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Naomi’s response was incredibly lackluster, and focused on one thing, and just didn’t care to acknowledge any of the rest.

Happy with my vote. Her non existent scum read is obvious at this point.

That last post was far less confident than her last wall as well which is a scum trying to piece together a case to try and fix their trajectory.

I think 134 made it quite clear I was reading up.

Additionally, Not every post needs to be a wall covering many topics. I tend to do those as more bulk read updates.

CHAnging the subject here. I didn’t bring up the lack of wall. I brought up the lack of confidence. You hesitated. You were setting up a trajectory path here to try and change lanes.

Literally every single one of your initial case is moot proving you are forcing a scum read now based on pointless reasons. This is another irrelevant post that was trying to defend yourself, but did it in a way that wasn’t defending what was accused at you. You just said it in a defending manner.

You have been setting up a change of trajectory, and it’s not organic nor is it townie.

Now you are stuck in a 1v1 with me because you see you screwed up, and if you back off, you’re gonna be screwed too.

Right now, you’re scum who thinks they can mislynch me.

Good luck with that I rarely get mislynched despite my seemingly mislynch bait behavior.

[Flavor Leaf]

am entirely confused as to why a D1 role claim this early partially when revealing 2 roles Also what is this whole Pr part there..

I mean you asked me why I voted didn’t you? If I refused your reason that would have just created more drama. I’d rather just be honest and open.

like you should of evaded some how. It would of looked worse but its better than this..

Worse than what? Neighbors aren’t power roles. They are of no help to town. Even if he didn’t ask me that question I wouldn’t talk game with him until I was felt he was town. I never understood neighbors. Personally don’t care for them and if that makes me a nk target, better me than a real PR.

Okay you was unconfirmed. but this is a mini-game In my experience mini-setups tend towards 2 town neighbors. Assuming your both town I also conclude there is a way to confirm alignments within our ranks (gunsmith / cop) though I am not claiming it.

IF YOU ARE SAID ROLES; DO NOT CONFIRM MY THEORY. DO NOT ROLECLAIM UNTIL YOU HAVE INFORMATION. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT ROLECLAIM NOW

Well now that Im certain they won't do that I'll continue

The reason I think this is, why make two players unconfirmed with the ability to communicate without having a way to trust that player in the setup. The other thing I can imply is krazy has no secondary role, as I can't see the setup having 2 masons with PR and if he had one why ask?

But thats just setup stuff. The other reason is reds. If your both green you just told the reds that you two have an advantage over other players and killing you shuts down 1 Role. (though mason ghost writer would be super fun) Though its not as great as a cop, mason/neighbor is super useful is used correctly as it can be used to setup baits and im sure there are other advantages i am forgetting that comes with a private chat line. including influencing the red team. by suggesting things to them (if you know there red) thats more likely to get them on a bad wagon.

This is an overcompensation to get more talk or role setup out in about so you can test the waters and try to find PR’s.

Classic scum move to project that towniness with the “DONT CLAIM” especially after being the one to bring stuff up to have that potentially be an issue.

This is you projecting a townie mindset, not actually having a townie mindset.

It’s also mindless setup spec, and you are trying to paint a picture in this game to help benefit your scum win con.

You’re talking and convincing the game what benefits you, since as scum, you know the setup more than anyone else at this point, and this sets up fake claims and allows you to weak crumb where in hindsight after a fake claim, you could go back to if you wanted.

I know your style.

[Flavor Leaf]

Piggybacking on that last quote, you’re also subtly directing potential PR’s onto specific players, by talking in hypotheticals. This keeps the PR target pressure off of you and sneakily directs them onto the neighborhood without having to flat out say it, and if pointed out, you can deny it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have half a mind to confirm your theory

[Flavor Leaf]

I have half a mind to confirm your theory

*facepalm*

Okay... so the only way to 'confirm my theory' would been to claim cop or gunsmith, Which if I'm reading that correctly you just did despite my repeated warnings not to. So... I revealed 3 of our PR's to reds on the first day... without trying to on the first account and after explicitly and clearly asking people not to on the second account..

I have an annoying playstyle. it’s very possible I’m just a 1 shot BP.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have half a mind to confirm your theory

*facepalm*

Okay... so the only way to 'confirm my theory' would been to claim cop or gunsmith, Which if I'm reading that correctly you just did despite my repeated warnings not to. So... I revealed 3 of our PR's to reds on the first day... without trying to on the first account and after explicitly and clearly asking people not to on the second account..

check meta

Lol, <3 Profii.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not Crimson, but I feel like expecting Crimson to answer that question before Manatee gives a response would defeat the purpose of Crimson pushing Manatee in the first place.

scummiest post

VOTE: light ethos

I’d like a little more here, I feel. I’m in catchup mode right now.

Getting to the most current posts now.

[Flavor Leaf]

as to my previous statement
VOTE: FrankJaeger
congratulations

Flavor read @ Frank's iso
tell me what you think there

I liked Frank up until he voted you.

I don’t see how people are red’ing your reactions.
Actually, I do. It’s tone, but I don’t think it’s a scummy reaction, people just think it’s red without analyzing it.

Frank took an early early stance on TvT Naomi vs Leaf, which can be scummy, but I talked about the preventing a lynch rather than helping push one or another.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Doughboy - I like neighborhoods. i think they’re fun. The paranoia it gives to townies, the beneficial pocketing scum can do and then, and the strength of them if you can town read your neighborhood buddies is really quite cool.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually think Naomi is scum, though. Rather strong scum, she just didn’t expect me to be able to fight back.

The fact no one joined in actually lends me to believe she’s scum even more, which i could see Frank also fitting the bill as being a scum who helped derail it in that case, actually...

That’s a pre flip, though

[Flavor Leaf]

So far I think that you and Naomi just had a miscommunication, she misunderstood your interaction with me.
I could be wrong but she didn't ping me so far

She definitely did, which was the basis of her scum lean on me, but I can see that happening from ScumNaomi, and then just got an out when she realized she wouldn’t win the 1v1.

I’ll lay down on the tunnel, but I still Red there.

Although, I’ll bring up stuff when I see stuff of note, but that goes for everyone.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can appreciate a good Krazy vote right now.

I don’t think Krazy is scum however, but I see why people would think that, and I don’t find it scummy to vote there right now.

(Hint: I’m definitely wanting to see who votes Krazy)

(Second Hint: I’m definitely wanting to see who does what now after I gave that hint.)

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m green on Krazy rn, but I understand is all. I understand that people would see there red.

[Flavor Leaf]

You scum, Ducky?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think it’s bad not to have scum reads at 10+ page, it’s bad not have reads, period. You can be neutral on someone’s alignment and still have a read on them.

[Flavor Leaf]

You scum, Ducky?

Not this time fam, how bout you?

Spoiler: for fl's eyes only

this is not what we agreed in the PT >:

Yeah, I’m scum. If scum means super town.

[Flavor Leaf]

We’re all too friendly with each other. I can’t get my reads developed.

I don’t have any real scum leans besides Naomi.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk what angle you’re talking about. Was just talking to Saudade.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t like that post by Lighf.

I never urged a vote on Frank. That’s a misrep in the middle there or a mistake.

[Flavor Leaf]

I half think this is just a lot of fluff from Light, but it’s so much I haven’t read it completely enough to say that for sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s just IioA

[Flavor Leaf]

The correct answer is the Manatee.

See like this

Vote Manatee

It's easy mmkay?

I’m half more wanting to Sheep the sea cow than vote the majestic creature.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m also rather surprise don’t I’m consistently siding with the people that doughboy/krazy are pushing.

Wait, Manatee is the Rocky slot, huh?

Okay, that’s less of an issue if that’s the case, but nonetheless.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think Naomi can help having good reads, Dosage.

Why do you think Naomi has good reads? Why do you see their reads as good and not just their reads?

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s a decent chunk of this game I haven’t read too much, so I need to catch up a little more before I push someone.

VOTE: Unvote

I’m not really scum leaning Naomi anymore. I understand the playstyle moreso, not town reading there, but I think this is better looked into and analyzed a little later.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think Naomi can help having good reads, Dosage.

Why do you think Naomi has good reads? Why do you see their reads as good and not just their reads?

I think he meant the opposite...
Like, she cant help me get good reads

Oh, I see how i misread that now. I was mostly just confused.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can you help me get good reads Flavor?

Possibly. I’m at work right now so I can hard dive, but I’ll analyze, explain, and you can Sheep me. Benefits you if you’re scum too

[Flavor Leaf]

Ducky’s not scum

[Flavor Leaf]

Manatee’s not scum.

Y’all scumfuck’s pushing on the animals.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m probably about to hard push Krazy because he’s scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Krazy

I’m coming in hard when I get home tonight. Get ready

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I did a skim of Worst’s ISO’s looking to see if he crumbed, and didn’t see anything.

However, scum doesn’t lie about that situation without hard posting it anyways.

Annoying, not scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Because I can tell when my pet Ducky is being a scum fuck or just needy and annoying.

He literally hasn’t done a single scummy thing that i could see. When I read more in depth, maybe I’ll see something, but on my skim though, it looks like he’s getting pushed for NAI and bandwagoning reasons, which happens to town, not scum on Day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

@LE - I’ll get more into it later. I should really stop posting for now because I’m getting distracted in real, but i get reads on people through how other people act a lot of the time, and wagon composition.

I also explained my Rocky town lean from early off the one post.

The slot has a lot to do with other slots reactions towards it

[Flavor Leaf]

And to your point on the “somewhat scummy not to answer” i actually think that comes from town more than scum.

Why wouldn’t someone as scum just give some bs reason? That’s a NAI reason at best

[Flavor Leaf]

Have you ever been fooled by scum before? Ever been fooled by him?

Everyone has.

With TW?

Nope. He was scum before, and I knew he was scum so much, and I had to fight RadiantCowbells in a hard 1v1 because how much I knew Worst was scum when i dealt with scumDucky.

I’ve been duped by Saudade, though.

Also a game where I had a hard 1v1 with RC.

[Flavor Leaf]

Those political as hell reads, though

I’m beginning to feel I might be wrong based on the fact that that reads list just screams scum to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

He’s pandering to me with Pikachu! Bold move. I tip my hat to you...

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think it was out of the possibility you had picked up that I was leaning towards you, or at least suspicious prior than that.

In fact, I had expected you to pick up on it if you were scum. I gave you that paranoia pressure.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can appreciate a good Krazy vote right now.

I don’t think Krazy is scum however, but I see why people would think that, and I don’t find it scummy to vote there right now.

(Hint: I’m definitely wanting to see who votes Krazy)

(Second Hint: I’m definitely wanting to see who does what now after I gave that hint.)

I’m green on Krazy rn, but I understand is all. I understand that people would see there red.

This mixed in with the fact that i have complete opposite reads of you makes it seem like you have extreme political reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

Those political as hell reads, though

I’m beginning to feel I might be wrong based on the fact that that reads list just screams scum to me.

Political reads? I'm not disagreeing with you; I don't know what you mean by that and would like to.

Reads created to better your standing within the game. It can be done by town, but generally is scummy.

Like...”profii’s controlling the game right now...I’m going to make sure that he’s a town read so he sees me support him and is Moreno likely to town read me.”

[Flavor Leaf]

Example ^ Profii isn’t in that spot, i know. Hypothetical and theoretical

[Flavor Leaf]

I already retracted my Naomi scum read.

And I have issues with the Manatee read, Frank read, and the Flavor read.

I should not be at the top for you, especially considering I’m defending Manatee and Frank.

[Flavor Leaf]

That is a political read. A ploy to try to move me off of you in case of a tunnel.

[Flavor Leaf]

And you’re distracting people with fancy colors.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, I believe you are wrong and are pushing incredibly NAI reads.

I don’t need to argue it with you, though. I just need to talk about it to others.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well I assume Flavor leaf will now take it as an attempted pocket but I guess it might be time to share my reads list.

I kinda wanted to hold off until the parrot was replaced but seems the thread is picking up a bit. yolo

Why would this be an attempted pocket? I was already scum reading, it would just be to change my mind on you.

The pocket talk is buzzword talking to try and defend themselves beforehand, and actin like they “know” what’s going to happen. If you can make sense of things beforehand, it comes off better, even if it’s scummy, which this is.

Krazy’s playing ploy after ploy, and doing it well, but they are all indeed tactics.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why is it scummy?

[Flavor Leaf]

You ask me the question of NAI, but it’s not scummy to me. I skip out of RVS/lurk out for Day 1 loads of times as town. Why is it immediately scummy?

[Flavor Leaf]

Hell, I’ve lurked out in games until Day 3-4 as town, then joined games and caught scum immediately. Annoying, sure. Scummy? Nah. That’s just easy wagoning, and the amount of traction that was coming through almost guarantees they were mislynches.

[Flavor Leaf]

viewtopic.php?p=8877233#p8877233

Also, to all you fellas who think that Krazy’s Pokémon colorful reads can only come from town.

Check out my Day 1 scum colorful reads list I did in this game, and look at the similarities.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why does it indicate you are afraid? And why do you think scum is “afraid of the town”?

I’m more afraid of town when I am town. When I’m scum I think it’s a breeze to just come out with clear thoughts.

You’re pushing all these things, but you’re pushing them as “flaws in play” rather than scum aligned. Poor play doesn’t mean scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sure, meta can be a thing.

Can you link me to where Frank has done the same thing?

[Flavor Leaf]

That’s interesting you bring up Tora and Texcat. I’ve been scum with Tora before, and they followed my lead the majority of the time, and stood by me with my town leaderness in a game Mulch modded a while back.

Texcat is one of the players that i call out as scum correctly nearly every game I’m in at one point. (Generally, I just wait until like day 3 to read Texcat, and it becomes easy to read her).

So you bring up players who’s scum game I know yet I still don’t feel like Frank is necessarily scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why do you assume he plays 3rd party the same as he would Mafia, though?

There’s not even a town PR link. Hell, he could have been trying something new. There’s plenty of reasons and holes in that meta read.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s UCV!!!

And no that wasn’t me coming in hard, that was me just interacting with krazy during the time I would have gone hard. It’s coming.

Krazy’s scum, so i’m not touching any wagon he goes to unless I think it’s bussing, but I’m probably going to be in Krazy for the time being.

Pikachu gonna electrify you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Early bird guess based on wagon composition and early reads,

Assuming 3 scum, it’s Krazy, Sasha, and Light.

[Flavor Leaf]

Krazy doing their thing

Light’s in the middle of pushing separate people from Krazy whilst still aiding support to the Krazy push yet not directly.

And Sasha’s adding support where needed while not taking the spotlight.

[Flavor Leaf]

More on that is that the claim of hers flies in the face of her disdain for votes that are safe. In the end, with many days left, she retreats can to a safe vote. The hypocrisy is not a good look.

THis sets up tomorrow after Manatee assumingly gets mislynched, to take any potential pressure off of Krazytrain.

[Flavor Leaf]

However I could replace Light with UCV slot based on small things Krazy’s done with the Parrot slot, but I’d rather let UCV in the game and go from there rather than Krazy associations.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: ManateeDude

Gutscum

Selflynch is gamethrow unless you're jester/mime

...

How come

I just want to shake him a bit. Manatee is difficult to read because he's scummy as both town and scum.

Im scummy as town and scum when I have low wim, which is fortunately not the case here!

3 of 12 of manatee’s posts here, I’ll be analyzing all of them.

The first two go hand and hand, it was obviously a joke.

The third post correlates with it, and as a master of self meta, i can tell when people actually believe it. That’s NAI at best. Definitely not scummy, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Early bird guess based on wagon composition and early reads,

Assuming 3 scum, it’s Krazy, Sasha, and Light.

This one is much, much more reasonable if you're going to make a scum team with me in it. I don't have a problem with being mislynched tomorrow if there is consensus between both of you that I'm scum, but you have very different scum teams. I think my death will give you all valuable information to work with.

FL do you feel like you are going against the grain right now?>

Yep. That’s why I’m more confident in my reads.

When I go against the grain as I am here, I’m generally correct, at least with the people who i am defending.

[Flavor Leaf]

Early bird guess based on wagon composition and early reads,

Assuming 3 scum, it’s Krazy, Sasha, and Light.

This one is much, much more reasonable if you're going to make a scum team with me in it. I don't have a problem with being mislynched tomorrow if there is consensus between both of you that I'm scum, but you have very different scum teams. I think my death will give you all valuable information to work with.

This is scummy. I don’t know what info you would give nor if you’re town should you be wanting your flip for info on Day 2, after there would already be some flips.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ok so I've seen a lot of pushing around that seems kinda useless and TvTy but imma say Crimson was scummy, esp the post I quoted earlier.

Ok so I've seen a lot of pushing around that seems kinda useless and TvTy but imma say Crimson was scummy, esp the post I quoted earlier.

You know Crimson better than us, right? What was scummy about that post Manatee?

It wasnt even a meta thing, more him voting to shake me saying im scummy as either alignments. So voting me and shaking me will help you how? The question seems kinda redundant and scum trying to look useful and towny...

This seems genuine. This gives me some town reads. He is asked a question, by Krazy in fact, and Krazy brought up the meta potential, like it’s the end all be all, which is actually pretty much how most people in their era are, I’m rather strong at abusing that fact when I’m scum and get town cleared a lot from that era, by Manatee responds differently by saying basically, “no, that’s not the reason, it’s a different thing”

Which is townie vibes from Manatee, and scummy of Krazy.

[Flavor Leaf]

@LE - no, i don’t want an info lynch on you. I want to lynch you when I see that you’re without a doubt or more than likely scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

am i being thick

TWs wagon only got up to 4 people?

Yeah, well, 4 too many. Ducky is town, and Krazy setup white knighting there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also can we post walls with TL;DR sections instead of posting multiple one-liners?

Nice meme

Oops got prodded, gimme a bit to catch up.

Not gonna comment on these NAI posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

Manatee’s 655 and 657 are talking about being unsure about Light Ethos basically, and the Wall posts. 655 was actually a little confusing for me, but it brings up his Crimson paranoia/read again as well, which shows they’re thinking, or at least trying to place themselves in the game.

They then talk about not to sure what to make of Light Ethos’ walls, then goes on to vote Light Ethos, and then say it was a placeholder vote.

This is TOWNIE. They’re becoming suspicious of LE, which I myself thought the same thing with the walls because it’s a lot of fluff, similar to Brian skies as scum, then they vote, even stating it was a placeholder.

There is zero reason for scumManatee to do this. Why be unsure? Why give us that unsurety? This is without a doubt a town slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

@LE - no, i don’t want an info lynch on you. I want to lynch you when I see that you’re without a doubt or more than likely scum.

Didn't you just say that I'm scum?

I’m focused on Krazy right now.

My reads flip flop around a lot. I can see you being town. But I’m a lean scum on you. I don’t like this form of defense y you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sure it’s easy to say everything about him is nai but they are still scummy and it’s the combination of them all. Scum still lurk in mafia even if town does too. It’s a good lynch even if you disagree.

False. The combination of them all is townie.

It’s not a good lynch. He has 12 posts. If you think that’s a good lynch, that’s terrible.

Give him some time to play the damn game. It’s Day 1. Not like this has been going on for multiple day phases.

[Flavor Leaf]

Manatee is a terrible lynch, and any town on it should see that scum is pushing that through based on crap flawed play reasonings rather than scum reasonings.

However, I think doughboy is town who just doesn’t get it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ducky is the ultimate sheep, and will follow on as town to anyone seemingly confident.
Doughboy is doing the same thing, but just doesn’t get, even though he couldn’t comprehend townKrazy a little while ago.

Which leaves Krazy, Profii, Sashadin on the wagon, and there are 2 scum there. :shrug:

Krazy is one of them.

Profii and I are buds, so if he’s scum, he’ll be playing in a way so i wouldn’t be able to see it directly, so i don’t trust any read I have on Profii until a little later. I expect if he was town, he’d feel the same way towards me.

[Flavor Leaf]

am i being thick

TWs wagon only got up to 4 people?

Yeah, well, 4 too many. Ducky is town, and Krazy setup white knighting there.

why lose your shit about L-3

interesting... to be fair thats what he did when he was caught serial killer in our last game but it was super obvious. hmmm

TW alignment would become hella obvious a day phase or two later.

[Flavor Leaf]

False. The combination of them all is townie.

Agree to disagree

Well, alright. Manatee’s town, though. So you’ll be proven the wrong one eventually.

[Flavor Leaf]

Give him some time to play the damn game. It’s Day 1. Not like this has been going on for multiple day phases.

He wasn’t a replacement. He’s had the same amount of time as everyone else who didn’t replace out. He’s had time. He’s intentionally lurking

So?

It’s Day 1. I’ve literally gotten to a Day 4 with like 5 posts as town before, then cane in like a wrecking ball. Fast game that was, though.

Lurking scum generally still know what’s going on.

Lurking town doesn’t.

Manatee is town.

That’s a policy lynch on your part, which i’m Not gonna stand for.

[Flavor Leaf]

I tried to avoid meta here but im frozen as scum. I cant make reads that make sense, and I struggle posting and then what to post.

viewtopic.php?p=10309010#p10309010

This is him as town explaining his struggle with playing scum. If you think being unable to make up his mind about a slot is town indicative I'm going to have to disagree.

Then it’s a NAI thing. He’s still more in the townie column.

You’re just trying real hard and seem to really have everything prepped up and a plan ready to go.

More scum points for Krazy.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s Day 1. I’ve literally gotten to a Day 4 with like 5 posts as town before

That wouldn’t fly if I was in the game. Any town who lets a player lurk that long is a bad one imo.

Agree to disagree.

[Flavor Leaf]

But yeah, pressure goes to inactive around Day 2 if they don’t start. Like hard pressure.

Day 1 you can nudge, but i think it’s hella dumb to push it. Some people don’t do well without flips and can’t get themselves into the game.

I spend a lot of lurking as town in Day 1’s for the reason of not being into the game yet.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also the point you made about coming to the site and not posting is terrible.

I constantly come to the site, look at a game for a second, then not post anything, because I don’t have thoughts or I’m not in a place to have real thoughts, so i don’t post

[Flavor Leaf]

Also there are other games

[Flavor Leaf]

People make suboptimal decisions sometimes, Flavor Leaf. Yes, he could be town. No, I don't think it's right to assume that a player that actively played in other games on site while avoiding this one can only be town because of his behavior in this thread. He got prodded and couldn't be bothered to post more than a placeholder on the vote he cast. Sure, that could be disinterested town. But on the other hand, it could also be someone who rolled vanilla scum and didn't like what they got. I'm really looking forward to studying this game when it's over to understand where you are coming from. If you are scum and if Krazy is scum, that's a pretty brilliant play you two just pulled. If you are town, and if Krazy is scum, that's an even more impressive play. If you are both town and if Manatee is scum, then I'll be interested to try to follow your logic without any preconceptions.

Right. And I’m not assuming he’s town. I know hems town based on OTHER people’s reactions towards it.

If he was scum, this wouldn’t be an issue like it is right now.

You guys are being extremely one dimensional.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf are you scum

I’m the towniest person here.

If i was scum, zero reason to defend Manatee like this if he’s town. Zero reason to defend him this hard if he was a scum buddy.

I’m just correct town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m just going against the grain with some attitude, which one dimensional players and scum will push as scummy

[Flavor Leaf]

@Profii - I feel like I did something like this in the first game we played together, and you thought I HAD to be scum, and my slot ended up being town and correct.

[Flavor Leaf]

Give him some time to play the damn game. It’s Day 1. Not like this has been going on for multiple day phases.

He wasn’t a replacement. He’s had the same amount of time as everyone else who didn’t replace out. He’s had time. He’s intentionally lurking

So?

It’s Day 1. I’ve literally gotten to a Day 4 with like 5 posts as town before, then cane in like a wrecking ball. Fast game that was, though.

I agree. But it doesn’t make him scum.

And I’d rather lynch scum.
I think the objective for every town player is to help town win. Being as intentionally unhelpful as Manatee has been does not work toward that objective

[Flavor Leaf]

Give him some time to play the damn game. It’s Day 1. Not like this has been going on for multiple day phases.

He wasn’t a replacement. He’s had the same amount of time as everyone else who didn’t replace out. He’s had time. He’s intentionally lurking

So?

It’s Day 1. I’ve literally gotten to a Day 4 with like 5 posts as town before, then cane in like a wrecking ball. Fast game that was, though.

I think the objective for every town player is to help town win. Being as intentionally unhelpful as Manatee has been does not work toward that objective

Oops, posted in the quote last time.


Sure, you’re right. But it doesn’t make him scum.

I’d rather lynch scum than policy lynch a townie Day 1

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys are effectively describing a policy lynch, and acting like that’s not what it is. That is terrible. This is a scum driven wagon, and through that, you can see that Manatee is town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m the towniest person here.

Right, you’re the village idiot here so it’s like obv town for you. Got it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I hate being the towniest person; it gets me night killed.

I just had a game like this that krazy replaces into where I was going against the grain, and I was correct.

I was killed night 2, Krazy lynched thatperson i was pushing the final day of the game, and I was correct.

[Flavor Leaf]

But yeah, pressure goes to inactive around Day 2 if they don’t start. Like hard pressure.

Day 1 you can nudge, but i think it’s hella dumb to push it. Some people don’t do well without flips and can’t get themselves into the game.

I spend a lot of lurking as town in Day 1’s for the reason of not being into the game yet.

All I wanted was to nudge. He’s not responding. Town would most likely respond. I’d rather lynch my scum reads but that doesn’t look like it’ll happen so this is fine

Why wouldn’t scum respond?

Scum is more likely to respond than town. They feel they have to do something.

Imma vig you tonight with this attitude. I like taking out lowhanging fruit.

[Flavor Leaf]

Imma vig you tonight with this attitude. I like taking out lowhanging fruit.

This was my third different soft claim this day phase.

Scum, i know you’ve been seeing em.

Shoot me. I dare you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m the towniest person here.

Right, you’re the village idiot here so it’s like obv town for you. Got it.

Why the insults? Why can’t I just have a different opinion?

Wish people would be civil.

When you start using logic, then sure. I’m not going to approve of crap logic and a policy lynch. I’m super against that, and think it’s terrible play.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think you’re a bad player. Just your play this game is less than stellar right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf are you scum

I’m the towniest person here.

If i was scum, zero reason to defend Manatee like this if he’s town. Zero reason to defend him this hard if he was a scum buddy.

I’m just correct town.

Here's a great reason to do this as scum and Krazy is town: you get to take out someone who puts a great deal of effort into their cases.

Here's are two reasons to do this as scum and if Krazy is scum with you: you get solid early town cred that isn't hard to keep for the remainder of the game, and you get an easy pocket of a player who is oblivious to the game/an easy mislynch later if people no longer buy that he is town.

Town reason to do this: you think that your read is better than current consensus and are willing to stake your credibility on it.

I like this post. It’s genuine, and I make posts like this.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think you’re a bad player. Just your play this game is less than stellar right now.

This was to doughboy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why wouldn’t scum respond?

Not knowing how to? From what I can tell he’s been scum on site twice. Both times he’s replaced out. Haven’t looked too see if he has replaced out as town but maybe he doesn’t know how to be scum?

Fair.

So let’s wait around to see if he replaces out or gets into the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Crimson, Sasha, Frank don’t have too many more posts than Manatee, and it seems like Manatee has a hard time keeping up. I don’t feel they are active lurking at all. Just lurking.

We’re going at a pretty fast pace. I give a night phase to let the lower active players catch up, and have a reset.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not condoning a policy lynch Day 1, and low sampling stretch meta cases aren’t gonna cut it.

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys are effectively describing a policy lynch, and acting like that’s not what it is. That is terrible. This is a scum driven wagon, and through that, you can see that Manatee is town.

If I'm not mistaken, you are the only one thinking like this. Is this "white knighting"? I can't feel the same fervor from the other people towards Manatee in you, you're very vocal about not lynching him. I am putting you nearer my second red slot.

Well, of course you are. You’re Krazy’s little scum partner minion.

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m the towniest person here.

Right, you’re the village idiot here so it’s like obv town for you. Got it.

Why the insults? Why can’t I just have a different opinion?

Wish people would be civil.

When you start using logic, then sure. I’m not going to approve of crap logic and a policy lynch. I’m super against that, and think it’s terrible play.

I’m using logic. You are also using logic. We use logic based on our own ideas of how players play and more importantly experience. To insult me by saying I’m an idiot and not using logic is really crossing the line.

First saudade, now you.

Y’all want to bully me? Fine.

mod request replacement

This game isn’t a friendly environment anymore.

P.edit. You’ll have to vote whoever replaces me.

Later guys.

This isn’t bullying. I admit, when I said the village idiot part a little while ago that was a bit much.

This however isn’t. I’m not attacking you as a player, I’m straight up saying your play was not great, and the logic you were using also wasn’t great.

I can comment on my thought s on the play as much as I want, just not the player, and it wasn’t nothing against you as a player.

[Flavor Leaf]

Crimson, Sasha, Frank don’t have too many more posts than Manatee, and it seems like Manatee has a hard time keeping up. I don’t feel they are active lurking at all. Just lurking.

If you are only looking at the number of posts to judge..... I read often and post when i think of something, I won't type for nothing. I don't go for 8 one-liners in 5 minutes...

This slot is arguing with me for the sake of arguing.

I’ve been hard defending Manatee, the least active player on this site, so this is pretty obvious scum to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

And Krazy’s meta link was poor and ultra prepped up. I’ve already explained that. But I will fight this manatee lynch for the day until deadline if I have to.

Lynch it next Day phase of you still feel that way.

However I’m 90% sure I’m correct on Sasha/Krazy. 100% sure there’s at least one in there.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m the towniest person here.

Right, you’re the village idiot here so it’s like obv town for you. Got it.

Why the insults? Why can’t I just have a different opinion?

Wish people would be civil.

When you start using logic, then sure. I’m not going to approve of crap logic and a policy lynch. I’m super against that, and think it’s terrible play.

I’m using logic. You are also using logic. We use logic based on our own ideas of how players play and more importantly experience. To insult me by saying I’m an idiot and not using logic is really crossing the line.

First saudade, now you.

Y’all want to bully me? Fine.

mod request replacement

This game isn’t a friendly environment anymore.

P.edit. You’ll have to vote whoever replaces me.

Later guys.

You're well within your rights to leave, but the worst put me on blast much worse than this, even though he knew that I'm new to Mafia. I'd urge you to stick it out. You're playing the game well.

Some people are just overly sensitive when their way of playing is shown to not be the correct way. Mafia’s fluid. No one correct way to play, but people like to only stick to one specific way, and scum get to abuse that left and right.

[Flavor Leaf]

rn i think you're town FL but i am watching you so closely because if you dupe me ill be so mad.

Sure, but like, you know me pretty well, I feel. I don’t take pointless risks as scum.

There’s zero reason to defend Manatee this hard if I was scum (guess that could be why I do it, but I digress. That’s doing the most.)

ScumMe defending ScumManatee this way is terrible because it connects us far too much if he ends up getting lynched.

ScumMe defending TownManatee this much is crap as well, because it requires me to FAIL in defending him and get the Manatee flip for the town cred.


Thoughts on Sasha?

[Flavor Leaf]

also im pretty mad rn that doughboy replaced out as i wanted a good wagon there, i think my case is pretty cool you should all read it

I think the slot is town, tbh. And the replacement comes from whiny town not whiny scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I hope a Boon Babe replaces Doughboy. I could use someone who sees the way i think.

[Flavor Leaf]

I thought the case was fine, and I see why you think the slot is scum, I just feel there’s a lot of reasons he isn’t.

[Flavor Leaf]

I hope a Boon Babe replaces Doughboy. I could use someone who sees the way i think.

Wait, UCV is in this game. I did get my Boon Babe. Cool.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thoughts on Sasha?

seems to be softly defending people i find scummy, i am trying not to pre-flip but i feel like this could be inexperienced scum trying to send people away from scum wagons and being a bit obvious about it... i didnt even see his wagon i would have been so on that

I just felt like they are newscum as well, who sort of just chainsaw’d me, and came up with generic reasons to try and push me, but didnt realize I was defending Manatee, who would fit that bill even more.

[Flavor Leaf]

My experience with neighbors is there is always one scum

yeah but

Yeah, that’s what threw me off a bit too. He really shouldn’t have been sleeping Krazy a season town.

I still think he’s town slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Vote Count 1.4

FrankJaeger (3) -

Krazy #315

,

The Worst

RockyHorror

#452

,

profii #455

The Worst

RockyHorror

(3) -

Saudade #426

,

Sashaddin #502

,

Light Ethos #504

ManateeDude (3) -

ManateeDude #6

,

Crimson97 #18

,

Doughboy #476

Naomi-Tan (1) -

Flavor Leaf #97

Saudade (1) -

FrankJaeger #239

UNVOTE/Not Voting (2) -

Pernicious Parrot #138

,

Naomi-Tan #475

Full vote history in the OP.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-17 20:00:00)

Mod Notes

Doughboy is V/LA for (expired on 2018-09-08 20:00:00).

Sasha/Krazy were on countering wagons here as well.

I think Krazy is warlocking Saudade a bit.

[Flavor Leaf]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

Why would I put my neck out to save hypothetical scum partner in Manatee, who has like 12 posts, little content?

[Flavor Leaf]

I just felt like they are newscum as well, who sort of just chainsaw’d me

I don't understand the term chainsawed

I’m pushing your buddy, then in turn, you push me to get pressure off of Krazy.

It’s a scum tactic that can come off as really subtle.

You probably didn’t see it, but I did list you as the most likely Krazy partner earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would I put my neck out to save hypothetical scum partner in Manatee, who has like 12 posts, little content?

Are you saying it would be more strategic for Red to bus him in this case?

If I were red with red Manatee, yeah. Maybe I could defend him, but there’s really zero point to defend him a scum hard as I have been if we were Red/Red.

Does that make sense?

You can scum lean both of us individually, I don’t find that scummy, but gotta acknowledge that that’s poor play if we were Red/Red.

[Flavor Leaf]

You probably didn’t see it, but I did list you as the most likely Krazy partner earlier.

I didn't miss iot, I keep wondering what makes you think this.

It’s wagon composition, and where Krazy’s support is subtly coming from.

Krazy would be the scum leader for the day phase, and you gave support to the wagon was my theory. Then when you came in and immediately tried discrediting me, that helped make me feel a little more confident.

I do like this back and forth. If I’m wrong about you, I feel I’ll figure it out.

[Flavor Leaf]

i also just went to check - day talk is on - if i was sashaddin's buddy, i'd be saying stop defending all the scum. It seems so coincidental that you'd expect some mentoring to happen if he was really scum

On my part? I always expect coaching. For all i know Krazy was saying stuff, and then Sasha tried acting on it, and got a little bit caught out because of it. Not saying that happened, but I could see it.

I’m unsure what you mean here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m hoping doughboy’s replacement can give me some good insight being neighbors with Krazy.

[Flavor Leaf]

i still think its a good idea to remove that wifom rn to be fair.

i also assume there is a 3rd neighbour

How do you do that without knowing the full neighborhood?

I feel like someone brought up a third Neighbor, or like hinted at it earlier, because I felt like there was a third too.

[Flavor Leaf]

i still think its a good idea to remove that wifom rn to be fair.

i also assume there is a 3rd neighbour

How do you do that without knowing the full neighborhood?

A lot of neighborhoods are 3player. I almost feel like that’s the norm.

But 2p is pretty common as well. Considering this is a mini, I definitely could see 2p neighborhood.

[Flavor Leaf]

That isn't what my question meant. I've been assuming it was a 3 person neighborhood all game. I meant how do you remove the wifom without knowing the third person in the neighborhood? I think the knowledge of who that person is has the potential of making a great deal of difference in which person to lean into if you're certain that it's important to solve the neighborhood puzzle now.

Fair. I think remove the WIFOM of “there has to be scum in the neighborhood” is good to get rid of. Just analyze play.

No point in outguessing the mod without seeing a pattern first.

[Flavor Leaf]

If dough is scum fuuuuuck is he good at acting. but listen is better w/o him

I definitely think you're town FL I just think those scumreads are towny

What’s townie of them?

[Flavor Leaf]

What is warlocking

Scum playing in a specific way to have townies feel confident in their reads, and do a decent amount of pushing for them.

I actually don’t think you’re being warlocked, actually after looking over it. Just buddied.

[Flavor Leaf]

What is warlocking

Scum playing in a specific way to have townies feel confident in their reads, and do a decent amount of pushing for them.

I actually don’t think you’re being warlocked, actually after looking over it. Just buddied.

Me and Krazy.. buddied? no
He's actually high up there on my scumlist at the moment

Interesting. Why is that?

[Flavor Leaf]

in my mind if the duck would flip scum right this moment Krazy would be my next vote instantly

Nice. I had thought of this as well, especially considering Worst claimed exactly what Naomi was bringing up earlier.

Not entirely confident in it, but the thought did cross my mind.

[Flavor Leaf]

alas he claimed pr so I don't really know what to do at the moment

If worst is scum, I feel he’ll be caught eventually. He has to deal with gun claims.

[Flavor Leaf]

hilariously, my role is the same role I fakeclaimed in my last scumgame. T_T

Interesting.

I’m probably gonna green ducky then.

Krazy’s still scum. Sasha backed off real fast, so might be green.

Light Ethos is just odd.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't really want to waste todays mislynch on an "afk" slot either so I'm waiting for voyager and so on to speak up

Yeah this is why I didn't jump on the Manatee vote train. I'm leaning towards scum on his slot, but it's important to hear from the slots that disappeared. Thankfully, we have plenty of time left.

Why are you scum on it rather than NAI? What is scummy to you?

Odd as in i can’t figure out what I think of you

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t agree that the meta lines up just because it’s happened in one or two games without a town sample.

That’s definitively NAI.

[Flavor Leaf]

But good casing on Light.

[Flavor Leaf]

LE what do you make of Flavor Leaf

I think he's town. He's right to say that his defense of Manatee is hard to justify as scum. I gave some possible reasons why he would do it as scum, but I don't think they're high likelihood. I think he has a lot of faith in his reads.

How come your main read on FL is based on his manatee thing when he had a significant interaction with Naomi who you feel rather strongly about

I’d expect you to at least mention that somehow

To be fair, I feel my manatee defense is the strongest reason to town read me. Townie points for LE.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor Leaf: When is that case on Krazy coming?

When I get some time to catch up on the thread.

It sped up.

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s a lot. I don’t really have time to make a big post right now either.

Skimmed a bit:

@Saudade - you see the Krazy/Sasha potential Krazy/TW stuff too? Nice. I’d rather go Krazy.

[Flavor Leaf]

And Krazy’s meta link was poor and ultra prepped up. I’ve already explained that. But I will fight this manatee lynch for the day until deadline if I have to.

Lynch it next Day phase of you still feel that way.

However I’m 90% sure I’m correct on Sasha/Krazy. 100% sure there’s at least one in there.

Sasha is on the first non-newbie game with a pool of experienced players. you need to bare in mind they need a while to reach out level.

I’ve IC’d plenty of games; I feel my read and reaction towards Sasha is very warranted. It’s also tied directly to Krazy, so that’s why i’m going for Krazy not Sasha.

[Flavor Leaf]

Naomi-Tan is a town lock for most people and has been trying to pin me in a scum team with two players that have largely vacated the thread, your slot included. It's also scum team that doesn't make sense given my ISO. To form her case on me, she's misrepresented several of my posts. I thought it would take a green flip on me for people to take my charge seriously that she shouldn't get a pass this game.

I feel like you’re the reason Naomi is getting town locked.

While they’re leaning town, sure, day 1 that’s no where near a town lock. Scum points for LE.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Crimson:
1. What's your take on the ongoing disagreement between Naomi and me?
2. Do you lean town on Flavor Leaf after his push on Krazy?

@Flavor Leaf: When is that case on Krazy coming?

This is also scummy points for LE.

Looks like he’s trying to change the subject of he game now that there’s pressure on them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, so I just learned that Naomi doesn't know how probability works. Did she really just try to tell me that if there are 3 red players in a game of 13 players, that 30% of the players are red? If you're going to write at me in a condescending tone about something factual, at least be correct. Yikes.

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

I'll go out and say red!Naomi, and I'm alright with everyone flipping me green first if it's necessary to be sure that I'm not just trying to get an active green killed early.

You're trying to pin me to Manatee and Crimson? Really? That's what you came up with? Not any of the other players' logic that I've been acting on? I was willing to take the brunt of the pressure for the vote on the worst because saudade made that vote and gave a compelling reason as to why others should press him into action. I've liked Doughboy's votes this game and specifically said that Manatee was also a good vote while I had my vote elsewhere. I've been frustrated at all of the inactive players, and that is where the vast majority of my frustration as been placed. My main challenge to you about your insistence that I am scum is that we can't be content to ignore the possibility that at least one of the inactive players is scum, and I have been insistent that we can't ignore all of those players.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

The fact that she inmediately went with a three
people mafia instead of speculating about its size is TMI actually.

I disagree. I think it’s safe to assume 3 Mafia until other stuff in the game comes up that shows otherwise in a 13p game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would you flipping green make us consider redNaomi? Why can’t that be done without that? Why can’t Naomi be green pushing greenyou?

However I’m not really caring to push you this day phase, as J can see you coming from both alignmentse

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m the only one not misguided, Crimson.

That’s a discredit by Crimson protecting Krazy subtly.

Scum points for Crimson.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe-not-so-spicy read:

Flavor Leaf is town

Town read me again, I dare you. See what happens.

[Flavor Leaf]

Man, you were supposed to take the dare, and I was gonna go...

“Aight Creature’s conftown.”

Now you’re just regular town...

[Flavor Leaf]

Which slot did you replace Creature

He’s Manatee, so i was already town reading the slot.

Meta dictates this is townCreature too.

[Flavor Leaf]

So we’re lynching off of that Manatee wagon

Krazy, Doughboy, TW, Profii, Sasha.

TW/Doughboy for reasons shouldn’t be on the table for today.

I don’t really have a strong lean for Profii either way.

Krazy/Sasha it is, then.

Krazy should definitely be the one, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Meta dictates this is townCreature too.

FL you trolling now?

Nah, have you seen ScumCreature?

He’s a giant lurk sack.

I’ve even been scum partners with him, and he lived through to Day 4 somehow without saying one substantial thing.

Won that game from mislynching a role copper miller in 3p lylo.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, Krazy knows that I for sure know he’s scum too, but it’s one of those things of “doesn’t matter if you know I’m scum if you can’t get me lynched”

And he’s playing accordingly now

He’s trying to gaslight me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature's scumgame is actually getting pretty goof

Not saying it’s not. I’ve seen him as scum multiple times.

This is his townMeta mixed in with my already town read on the slot prior to him replacing in.

[Flavor Leaf]

I dont expect you to reread this 50 page game but what do you think about the worst, sasha and... Krazy(?)
=]

I want to see who Krazy would recommend me to lynch (if it's not me).

also still need to have some interactions with the worst and sasha, haven't noticed them much.

Krazy is scum this game, but I’ll let you do your thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe give me your thoughts on FL too. Have you played with him before? Like what is going on with him. He's just acting weird and making all sorts of shitty arguments and usually he's not this weird.

How dare you say i’m Not usually this weird.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe give me your thoughts on FL too. Have you played with him before? Like what is going on with him. He's just acting weird and making all sorts of shitty arguments and usually he's not this weird.

How dare you say i’m Not usually this weird.

Imma be here until you slip up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Krazy keeps trying to discredit me so people think I’m just tunneling. I’m very much looking at other people and saying my thoughts on them when they are there.

[Flavor Leaf]

You keep saying "This person defended Krazy so they are scum" and "this person didn't sheep Krazy so they are town" -- your reads are useless to me right now and you are like, way beyond tunneling me and into pre-flip association lalaland.

I don’t think I’ve said any of this.

This is a blatant misrep.

I have a little bit with LE/Sasha, but I’ve specifically brought up my reads on them and how I’m not exactly sure on either of them. There was a time I thought Sasha was for sure scum, but that didn’t last long.

But yeah, this is a blatant misrep. I even stayed on you to avoid pushing preflight associations. You just took parts of my posts, and fixed them up to push a defense and a discredit on me, when that was not the case at all.

I’m even bringing up how even though I’m green on Naomi, LE is technically right, she could be red, and even talked about not interested in having LE flip here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Krazy/Sasha it is, then.

Krazy should definitely be the one, though.

If you want to push Krazy, we'll need your case for it. You had reasons for it before Krazy posted his read list, but you haven't gotten around to posting the case.

I actually don’t really like this.

It’s not in one post, sure, but I’ve definitely cased Krazy enough and made enough points on him that it would be redundant at this point. You’re just choosing not to look at it that way here because it’s not a “case” it’s just post. But my Third Degree Boon (my name’s tactic that i word play from my main account) where I go deep interaction is my best way at showing said person is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Anyways, is Voyager going to play

He’ll get here. He’s probably busy. Plus with the speed we’re going, he probably doesn’t have time to catch up and can’t get into it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk. Sasha’s been newbgreenin’ it up with their second half of their iso.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think this is TvT.