Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1951 (isolation #0) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:51 am

yeah I have a lot of catching up to do
I doubt I'll catch up today
Will provide hypo inno in a later post, since providing it here seems unhelpful

Anyone want to summarize the gamestate?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1952 (isolation #1) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:52 am

Also hi @friends I've played with before

Get reckd @scum whoever you are

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1954 (isolation #2) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:35 am

well I'm not scum, so there's that
what does that sentence about skygazer being a traitor mean?

Has anyone fully claimed anything?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1956 (isolation #3) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:37 am

In post 5, ofrhz wrote:
As you walk towards the casino, you can’t help but feel a rush of adrenaline course through your body from anticipation. Feeling energized, you strut into the building with thoughts of glory and prize money on your mind.

A tall, stern-looking man greets you as you walk in, but instead of leading you to a table, he quickly ushers you away from the floor and into a small, nondescript side room. You recognize some of your other competitors, sitting in silence and looking determined to avoid making eye contact with one another.

The same man walks to the front of the room and says, “I appreciate your patience. You must be wondering why we have brought you here today.

We have video footage of three masked figures breaking into the casino stockroom yesterday evening. Due to the high stakes nature of this event, we have suspended the competition until the perpetrators can be identified. As competitors with motive, you are now our primary suspects in this investigation.”

A few unintelligible murmurs resonate throughout the room, but the man clears his throat and continues, “Luckily, we can narrow down the pool of suspects a bit further. I have already questioned Creature, and he was able to provide a solid alibi for his whereabouts last night.”

Creature has been revealed as the Innocent Child.

mm this is something, at least

Where should I start to bite into this thing? It's big and I mostly replaced in for playerlist, not because I've been following along.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1957 (isolation #4) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:37 am

In post 1955, Creature wrote:ruru has claimed a guilty on me.

wat

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1959 (isolation #5) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:08 am

Hot take: vca tells me one or two of scum are in vex/skitter/enigma
Postcounts tell me skitter/ruru/the worst/vex are town
This is a cheap read but I want my slot to be readable and for this game to be playable as fast as possible

VOTE: enigma

hypo-claim no result (either roleblocked or checked A50)

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1960 (isolation #6) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:14 am

If anyone wants my vote elsewhere do these two things:
summarize a towncase on enigma
summarize a scumcase on whoever you want lynched

If that doesn't happen, you'll have to wait for me to catch up more.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1962 (isolation #7) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:51 am

Okay but unless you think I was the scum on the D1 lynch it was probably enigma
Who's scummier and why

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1967 (isolation #8) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:07 am

that's a pretty weak towncase on enigma:
-I'd say "his vote on A50 is useless" could easily be said by a scum partner
-Just because it's not scummy of enigma to do the things laid out in 1157 doesn't mean it's towny of him

I don't think the worst should be given lynch immunity 4ever for getting the scum slot lynched, but I see no reason to assume bussing is what happened. Town got a red slot flipped d1, so I'm going to assume for this game day that most high-functioning high-posting players are town in comparison to the rest of the playerlist, because a tw/skitter or ruru/vex team (or whatever combo you like) could probably have had any lynch they wanted

pedit: well skitter might just be wrong, & I'd argue sheeping me is the most interesting play you could make in what seems to be a dead gamestate @buj

also true re:tw's activity but read the above

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1968 (isolation #9) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:12 am

also I skimmed and saw a couple towny posts from tw
you want me to vote Alonzo? case him

Not sure why you're bringing up the fact HWS was absent during scum lynch
Do you just not want me to pay attention to the slot
Oh wait no it's Alonzo??
Why is that scum indicative for the slot? didn't he replace out at that point? seems nai

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1970 (isolation #10) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:17 am

I mean it's not like enigma is in danger of a lynch at this point
If the only reason you're not voting enigma is that there isn't support for the wagon

here's some support

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1972 (isolation #11) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:24 am

okay scum case gamma pls

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1975 (isolation #12) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:52 am

who plays scum self-sacrificially what

I'll need more than gut on enigma to townread him
Or at least I'll need enigma to come make my gut feel it too

fair point re:HWS but I think that if he was scum that makes it more likely the other scum tries to hop on the wagon, knowing that if they don't it'll be a pure wagon. Either way I think a scum on the wagon is likely, and that if I'm right on that it's either enigma or someone widely townread like vex or skitter
Leaning the former because of the fact that town functioned well enough to hit scum
What was the case on the red slot? Lurkiness? Or like a real case someone put forward?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1977 (isolation #13) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:14 am

In post 1976, skitter30 wrote:i mean i'm still mildly townreading enigma and you're the person i want lynched soooo (literally the only reason why i'm not voting you right now is that the slot was empty for like a week)

Oh sad

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1979 (isolation #14) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:47 am

In post 898, the worst wrote:just gonna set the record straight.

your read on me here feels really over keen as hell.

those posts are me being me and just because you caught me as scum once in a doomed slot that doesn't have any bearing on my alignment (and nor does it mean I'm a free lynch for you to pull out of your hat wheneverthefuck)

currently slightly more likely a bad taken from town!you than a bad setup from scum!you but either way it's bad and I'm not sure how to feel about that yet

having said that you do have experience misreading town!me so it's probably earnest

In post 943, the worst wrote:
In post 940, ruru wrote:this game feels like a loss.
scumslip much?
town is gonna wreck this shit

In post 1064, the worst wrote:@Creature mostly, Gamma slightly
sorry but with 48 hours to go I really am not gonna obvtown hard enough to get you all to settle down. all I can do is ask for a reevaluation d2.

I'm more or less fine with this game/list I'm just not warmed up and don't have that urgent energy yet.

lynch someone who's actually gonna flip red. or if I'm designated d1/n1 death lmk and I'll stop putting effort in.

In post 1391, the worst wrote:{tw, larvitar}
{ }
{a50, vex}
{skitter30, ruru, Buj, Gamma, ejji}
== null == {hot water service}
{NM, Enigma}

tragic

In post 1495, the worst wrote:anyway
not towncasing my pred. it's a waste of valuable meta when the outcome is predetermined to me. you'll all get over it

ruru more likely town for overbtinkjng it that far. I'm prolly overthinking her

In post 1499, the worst wrote:I'm at least gonna go down voting the mechanically correct slot. I want post-game bragging rights if there's no vig or this is traitor.

VOTE: NM

In post 1516, the worst wrote:didn't say it was a tell. I just feel like a few of you are too used to seeing me as scum to sort me without me energetically powertowning which I don't have the enthusiasm to do.

In post 1598, the worst wrote:
In post 1587, ruru wrote:I think tw's play has been results-oriented in a tmi way: he expects to deliver us a redflip and then not die as a result, without really scumhunting or doing anything else towny
ok so you literally witnessed what happened the last time I tried to bus so please tell me you actually think I

*clears throat*

> rep'd into a scumslot
> decided to expose scum!cjv for towncred (?) when he'd just been dropped into his usual "too hard to read" bin
> cjv then spewed antiassociatives and then flaked from the game because.....?? he didn't like my bus strategy? waht
> I suddenly got really really good at bussing and changed my bussing ethos dramatically

like this conclusion is so vague and has nearly no thought behind it. I'd feel better if you jumped into the thread with a fucking fake guilty. seriously. stop tunnelling me and pay attention to the fact cjv and I were obviously not scum together.

actually fuck it this could be scum. will revisit later

hypo inno Bujaber

In post 1600, the worst wrote:VOTE: ejjinami

In post 1616, the worst wrote:"being lazy town" is kind of a vague spectrum
are you looking for a game where I've had a hard time getting / staying engaged? I think it's more of a trending issue for me because I'm getting fairly bored of the game in a general sense

the more I'm thinking about it the more I'm liking this angle on my slot from you, I think I was just irritated by the conclusions being drawn too quickly fyi

one question tho: where is your awareness of your history of misreading me?

In post 1679, the worst wrote:I still kinda think I want enigma.

In post 1680, the worst wrote:radical thought
someone remind me why I'm townreading Vex?

In post 1710, the worst wrote:and yeah my playstyle is rarely consistent which I think is why some people find reading me to be a pain in the ass

I'm townreading everything above this line -----

In post 1883, the worst wrote:Occum's razor would put scum in {you, hws} from the a50 flip but it's stupid as shit. he was just a good kill--he was not going to let the mislynch on me go through, had fast-moving reads and was set to reevaluate after d1 so

just a generally solid kill I think

this sounds a little scum gloat-y

In post 1889, the worst wrote:
In post 1487, the worst wrote:
In post 1445, ruru wrote:like if you think the gamestate is losing, but you're too low energy to care, then you still shouldn't be scumreading me for having thought the gamestate was losing
I actually felt the exact opposite there.
for a moment things were starting to make sense but now they're wonky again. idk I'm probably overthinking stuff.

In post 1488, the worst wrote:
In post 1451, ruru wrote:@tw

In post 1437, ruru wrote:why is my progression on your slot confusing?
probably need a Fancy Post for this, we can go into it later or whatever

In post 1491, the worst wrote:
In post 1463, ruru wrote:hws isn't here...

In post 1464, ruru wrote:also the strength of my hws scumread is less than the strength of your ceejay scumread so probably we should just lynch nm
oh my bad this is actually a wrecking ball of common sense

In post 1492, the worst wrote:
In post 1475, ruru wrote:that's personal bias and has nothing to do with winning the game
it does if someone is starting to kinda realising on a subconscious level that this isn't scum!ducky and you're twisting their arm back into lynching me.

the main reason I'm netting skitter above the null line rn is the actual parallels she's drawing between me and other games. I think she's actually thought about this. she's just wrong and a part of me is pretty sure she realises to some degree that she's wrong.

you also clearly don't know Skyg's scum meta lmao

In post 1495, the worst wrote:anyway
not towncasing my pred. it's a waste of valuable meta when the outcome is predetermined to me. you'll all get over it

ruru more likely town for overbtinkjng it that far. I'm prolly overthinking her

In post 1498, the worst wrote:
In post 1496, ruru wrote:
In post 1488, the worst wrote:
In post 1451, ruru wrote:@tw

In post 1437, ruru wrote:why is my progression on your slot confusing?
probably need a Fancy Post for this, we can go into it later or whatever
fancy post when?
not before I'm lynched
I'm actually v/la over the weekend but won't qnnounce it because you fucks are mislynching me anyway

Just look for who should have known better and adjust reads accordingly lol
somewhere around here I started liking her but it's slightly intangible. I just think there's
an elephant
of over thought nuance that comes from town!ruru long before scum!ruru

How did you know I was coming

In post 1947, the worst wrote:gg town
it was fun

In post 1948, the worst wrote:I mean welcome Rel

hey
hey wait
this was rude!
rude.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1980 (isolation #15) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:49 am

Welp I 100% meant to spoiler all of that, sorry everyone.

I guess I see your point @ruru about tw maybe choosing to push his scumbuddy for his own survival
I just think Occam's razor is that, until there's a surprising flip somewhere along the line, it just makes sense to assume the player pushing scum was town, especially given the wagon died and revived

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1981 (isolation #16) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am

@skitter can you give me some reads and stuff
I know it's usually not fun to try to engage with a scumread you'd rather lynch
But like I'm town and need help so

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1983 (isolation #17) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:02 am

Why is enigma so high on your list? Would my greenflip lower him at all?
I think you should townread tw more than you are, fwiw

Wanna examine one of buj/gamma/Alonzo iso with me in real time

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1985 (isolation #18) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:06 am

well Alonzo is a wagon
let's start there

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1987 (isolation #19) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:15 am

So to start, HWS didn't mention the flipped scum once, even with a nullread
seems sorta unlikely for scum partners, but I guess I'd have to see if the flipped scum treated him similarly

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1990 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:40 am

Spoiler: Alonzo posts

In post 1680, the worst wrote:radical thought
someone remind me why I'm townreading Vex?

In post 1681, Alonzo wrote:dunno... did it start with B and end in AAAAAA?

Idk about Alonzo but I would have a hard time being this flippant as scum

In post 1727, Alonzo wrote:
In post 10, HeWhoSwims wrote:Hi I'm here to ensure scum ain't got nothing on town
mic drop

ditto on the tone here
Scum usually try harder to look towny I feel like? Like I don't think scum would think to make a point of bringing something so flimsy up as a reason to be townread

In post 1729, Alonzo wrote:
In post 1728, skitter30 wrote:==

In post 1716, the worst wrote:
ya nah that's fair, scumflip after a long ass d1 makes d2 ironically pretty exhausting

you're fine just bad timing for me to try and re-read you

happy w Gamma or Enigma today

might be ok with gamma, but enigma i still think is town; he has this like ... guileless quality to his posts that i townread

==

In post 1724, Alonzo wrote:
HWS was TOWNY AF

A50... mostly clown shoes..

Hws suspicion was well founded despite what you say captain hindsight. Also Im pretty sure HWS wasn't the only one sus of A50...

a50 was incredibly obvtown despite some peope's misgivings; what does the fact that that hws was not the only person sus of a50 have to do with anything or enigma's read on you

have you ever played with a50 before?

please describe how hws was towny af

==

I like your First point, this was part of my thinking when I voted.

A50 and me may have crossed paths when I was new to site, the name seemed vaguely familiar when I read it, I will go back and compare games to see if thats true.

I would have been pushing him today from re reading this game. His Nk helps me skip the foreplay, so I will be voting within the slots I find most sus today..

this isn't my favorit... He keeps delaying providing reads
Though I think context would show that he was repeatedly being asked to provide reads so I wonder if scum would really feel so brazen as to brush those off over and over

In post 1787, Alonzo wrote:Well vote me if u like, Im here and active, transparent as Fook.

Looks like the low hanging fruit is universally agreed on at this point... Tho I admire those who would try to pull me down with them, Its pointless 'less ye be scum yerself'

had my first game with Creature not long ago, his reads are solid, so I'l sheep Creature whilst hes alive... IDRC how Icky it makes skitter feel...

Townreading not caring what skitter thinks here

In post 1809, Alonzo wrote:Im gonna cook Dinner, then you will get you readmap.

Like really making a point of announcing that he is delaying reads. He provides them shortly after this but surely scum would just get lurky/provide fake reads sooner? Or, not "surely", but it seems to me that scum are more likely to do those other things

In post 1868, Alonzo wrote:
maybe my feelings will get stronger when Town stops riding my ass and starts voting Scum...

I get the need to sort me, but Im transparent and stubborn.

Will a link to my scum meta help you feel better about me?

At this point I believe this as I see it

@skitter agreed that he reads gut town, though his play hasn't been stellar in regards to the quantity or quality of reads & analysis.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #1993 (isolation #21) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:02 am

Spoiler: you've probably re-read all these before

In post 707, ceejayvinoya wrote:I'm on page 15 sorry for being slow.

Anyway, here's where I'm at so far.

HWS

Nulltown. Nothing on here really struck me as bad or towny. The only thing I'm seeing here that makes me think he's town is that he does what he says, regarding "you shouldn't only ask questions but post reads as well."[/ spoiler]

Antihero

Nulltown. Dunno what to say about him. I agree with some of his posts, like his early "sky is just trolling" read and maybe a little on Gamma's entrance. So yeah, my view on him is something like "he seems to be town but he doesn't look town enough."[/ spoiler]

Skygazer

I wanna townread Sky at this point because all of her posts so far up to this point are so blatantly lacking in content and I think scum would play this more seriously.

I'm undecided on Sky, I'd rather we not lynch Sky today and try to sort her at another day.[/ spoiler]

Frank

Nullscum. So far, his posts to me feel like posting for the sake of posting. I'm not getting townpings from him at all. His posts are dull.[/ spoiler]

Gamma

Null. His posting can might as well come from both alignments. I had trouble imagining him as either town or scum because it doesn't matter if his posts are genuine or not, it's still true.

I need to read more.

Only thing that look town to me so far is his meta read on A50. I think he really believed in it.[/ spoiler]

I'll do the rest later.

I think antihero looks and skygazer look the worst here. Scum usually like to mention their scumpartners among other reads like this. antihero is.... buj and skygazer is.... tw? hm, ok

In post 894, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 892, ruru wrote:cjv thoughts on tw?
Nothing yet. I think he's the kind of player that gets easier to read as the game gets longer, so I'll hold off on reads

Gut says town tho

In post 895, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 893, the worst wrote:@skitter have you seen me rep into a town slot before?
Did you replace into a scum slot again? Why do you always get the good slots?

In post 900, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 896, ruru wrote:do you know why tw is scumreading you?
Uh meta I guess? He never directly read me like this before.

In post 914, ceejayvinoya wrote:But he already said why?

Idk how exactly to remedy that other than to keep playing.

In post 1008, ceejayvinoya wrote:Antihero's posts ping town but Bujaber's posts ping scum

Idk what to do with him

again there's random focus on the antihero/buj slot. I'm gonna look here next

In post 1386, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 1383, the worst wrote:where's my greeting NM? I even voted you as a warm greeting.
VOTE: theworst

I see why tw has earned so much attention. cjv and nm were really loud about the slot in comparison to other slots. I don't see it as svs at this point, though? cjv feels more like he didn't know how to disagree with tw so he just tried to ignore/deflect the slot. nm looks like he just vengevoted for the heck of it.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2000 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:59 am

In post 1745, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1743, skitter30 wrote:the people i townread are: vex, ruru, enigma, creature

the people i don't are: buj, alonzo, tw, ge, ejji

and three of them are on that wagon
And that makes sense to you?

We know there's a traitor and a groupscum left alive.

You have to ask yourself if both could be on gamma in only 4 votes or if one of them is bussing the other (gamma) in only 4 votes.

If the answer is no to both of those then ejj should either be confirmed scum to you or you know for a fact you are townreading scum.

We do?

In post 1831, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1827, ruru wrote:I'm fairly confident we've had a wagon on at least one scum today and the fact that the game is just stalling seems to point to scum not wanting to bus
That is more indicative of there being a wagon on scum right now.

If everyone, town and scum alike, are posting very little scum cannot bus and risk a quick hammer from the absent townies. They cannot aggressively push the counterwagon because as soon as a mislynch occurs the other player would be a prime suspect.

posting this so I can check the votecount when this was posted for context

I think I townread BuJslot so now I'm a little lost

Irrelephant11 · Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:00 am

In post 1823, ofrhz wrote:
VOTE COUNT 2.6
Alonzo (4):
Enigma, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience
(L-2)

the worst (1):
Gamma Emerald

ruru (0):

BuJaber (0):

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (4):
Creature, Bujaber, Alonzo, the worst
(L-2)

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (1):
ejjinami

With
10
alive, it takes
6
to lynch.
Day 2 ends in (expired on 2018-10-02 10:30:00)

Other:

- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- skitter30 V/LA until Wednesday morning
- Gamma Emerald has been prodded
- ejjinami still needs to be replaced :c If you know anyone looking for a game, let them know

okay so maybe it's just gamma
I'll go look into him I guess

Irrelephant11 · Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:05 am

Would it help town a ton to know my alignment
this game is confusing me so maybe I'm the best course of action
I mean not really but
there's a lot to read here and scum is not obvious (unless it's enigma, in which case, called it)

Anyway I g2g for now maybe now that all slots are filled this game will sort itself out

pedit: huh...
I'll ruminate on what it means that tw is sheeping me later, I guess?
bye!

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2051 (isolation #25) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:25 am

In post 2027, BuJaber wrote:Traitor + groupscum left because cjv flipped goon.

But why do you assume scum didn't recruit traitor?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2053 (isolation #26) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:50 am

In post 2, ofrhz wrote:- Recruit Traitor as Mafia Goon

hmmm okay you're wrong, but I guess not in a scummy way...

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2059 (isolation #27) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:44 am

wow somehow my catching up efforts have completely ignored korina so far
hi korina

I feel confident in saying

BuJaber is not the traitor

That seemed way too convoluted to be a fake slip
I'm also townreading the slot & idk why skitter/ruru are going there...

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2061 (isolation #28) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:48 am

idk what you're saying in that first sentence
The answer to your question is on this page

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2063 (isolation #29) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 am

good points
who's scum and why

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2064 (isolation #30) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 am

Korina where'd you go? who's scum and why?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2069 (isolation #31) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:19 am

@korina I have no clue what your real life looks like in the moment I was just curious where you went

@enigma I'll go look at eod1 stuff then I guess

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2073 (isolation #32) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:49 am

In post 1198, BuJaber wrote:@vex - in the bolded I was saying that your setup spec was premature imo and might lead us to false assumptions by doing without having any additional info via claims/flips. The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.
In this game the setup spec might not hurt town so much, but it doesn't help town either because it's hypothetical and might encourage some people to jump to early conclusions that end up being false. But there was one good thing that came out of it which is that you became widely townread.

the worst you said you're not sheeping me? So why are you voting him

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2074 (isolation #33) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:49 am

literally zero clue why that quote is there

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2110 (isolation #34) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:04 am

guys why are we punishing tw for flipping scum in our reads?
Like if we flip green once or twice and we're confused then we should probably challenge our assumptions,,,
But until then anyone who's pushing tw for TMI-ing the lynch is also just punishing good town play if he's town (which RNG says he is likely to be)

Like one time tw survived till near endgame as SK by actually shooting most of the scumteam
If he's scum and wants his own team dead let's sheep him, not kill him

anyway
I'm still not totally caught up but I don't understand tw scumreads rn

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2111 (isolation #35) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:05 am

OhhhHHHHH Korina is VEX that makes more sense wow

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2112 (isolation #36) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:07 am

I don't have enough context to suggest tw is definitely town I'm just confused at half this playerlist being like "He led a lynch on scum, MUST be scum himself!!1!"
Korina/Vex is consensus town, yes? I'll come back to the slot.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2115 (isolation #37) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:39 am

K so I've finished reading EOD1-EarlyD2 and I'm at somewhere like

{Creature, me}
{skitter30, the worst}
{BuJaber, ruru}
{Alonzo, Vex/Kor} - null
{Enigma, Gamma}
{Not yet able to form super hard scumreads but I'm trying}

Can someone make a case for why I should have a [insert your read here] on Korina? Really struggling to see much beyond like the number of posts and some early messy setup spec
Maybe I just haven't found the parts of the thread where he really TOWNED IT UP but, please show me

pedit: sure, I don't actually think he's going to double bus two days in a row, that was more of a "Don't lynch till you've BoP'd" (semi-joking) argument
It's more like I don't think he's an optimal lynch d1 when he was so clearly a big reason why someone flipped red d2
Nobody seems to be considering that tw might just have good reads - you yourself admit the slot was doomed, so why is it TMI for tw to scumread the slot?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2116 (isolation #38) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:41 am

In post 2115, Irrelephant11 wrote:K so I've finished reading EOD1-EarlyD2 and I'm at somewhere like

ftr this does not mean I've read all of D1

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2118 (isolation #39) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:52 am

In post 1198, BuJaber wrote:@vex - in the bolded I was saying that your setup spec was premature imo and might lead us to false assumptions by doing without having any additional info via claims/flips. The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.
In this game the setup spec might not hurt town so much, but it doesn't help town either because it's hypothetical and might encourage some people to jump to early conclusions that end up being false. But there was one good thing that came out of it which is that you became widely townread.

Too Much Information - seems like people are thinking tw is scum partially because he was TOO confident in a red NM flip, i.e. only scum can have such confidence
Sometimes players with good reads are read as having TMI and therefore being scum, when actually they're just good reads

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2119 (isolation #40) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:52 am

I don't think I've talked to you much yet enigma
Who do you think is scum rn? Help me see it

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2133 (isolation #41) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:14 am

In post 2126, ruru wrote:enigma is a questionable lynch

what's the question

Also your reasons for wanting to keep Gamma over BuJaber are weak imo

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2139 (isolation #42) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:31 am

mmkay your reasons for not wanting enigma lynched are a little stronger than your reasons for not wanting gamma lynched
Not to be rude but I think your nsg thing sounds weak because it is actually just too weak to use here
At least if you want anyone to agree with you...

pedit: I don't understand your request re:enigma

ppedit: oh hey korina's back

pppedit: mm interesting

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2143 (isolation #43) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:50 am

how do you feel about a buj lynch?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2145 (isolation #44) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:13 am

Yeah? Just how does the idea of lynching BuJ make you feel?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2147 (isolation #45) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:31 am

K I've decided to upgrade Korina to a townlean after reading/skimming ISO

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2150 (isolation #46) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:37 am

In post 1559, ofrhz wrote:
VOTE COUNT 1.28
Almost50 (0):

HeWhoSwims (1):
Almost50

the worst (1):
Not_Mafia

ruru (0):

BuJaber (0):

Not_Mafia (7):
the worst, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience, Creature, Enigma, ejjinami
LYNCH

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (2):
HeWhoSwims, BuJaber

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (1):
Gamma Emerald

With
12
alive, it takes
7
to lynch.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-14 16:30:00)

Other
:
- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- HeWhoSwims still needs to be replaced

wait wow let's talk more about this
@anyone thinking scum didn't bus
NM flipped and then so did A50
That means you think scum:
A] were both voting Gamma Emerald
or
B] were Gamma Emerald and one of the people voting Gamma Emerald (meaning only two votes at EOD were not on scum)

So scum like almost definitely bussed? Which is already the conclusion to make when they shoot off wagon...
Which I guess makes my argument that tw didn't bus sound dumber
Maybe it is dumber
I still think he's a suboptimal lynch for riding the slot across two wagons and all the way to lynch

But since yeah, scum almost definitely bussed, my argument for it being one of enigma/skitter/ruru/vex makes sense again
I still think enigma is the most likely, but I've kind of been operating on "this looks enough like townskitter" without going in depth there
ditto ruru, though I don't know ruru's meta much at all (just sheeping it)

Like @world what do you think about this eod vc? Gamma looks sorta towny for it

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2154 (isolation #47) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:52 am

In post 1630, Enigma wrote:Hihi all, I'm travelling most of next week, so posting will be sporadic.

Hypo-inno skitter.
---

Looking at A50s posts he was TRing duck, and was convinced CJ was scum. His scum pool was Frank (ejji) + CJV (NM) + HWS (Alonzo). Potentially his reads placed him as a threat. On the other hand, maybe nothing in it as now skitter mentioned it, he could have been seen as softing PR.

---

Ejji end of day post was bad. I mean I can't understand his reasoning for his NM vote, apart from the wagon being "pure"?

---

In post 1595, Alonzo wrote:I'm town, I was gonna deathtunnel A50 today, so I need to re read and come up with a plan B
This, combined with A50's read list, combined with A50 flipping green, combined with HWS' completely neutral play - puts the slot in a bad start for me. Will revaluate after more posts from Alonzo, but first impressions a rather meh

---

No idea about duck meta, so won't partake in that discussion. Plus I'm pretty meh towards meta.
In post 1554, the worst wrote:if a vig exists I just trust the vig not to be stupid. if I could hammer I would :p
This felt a bit :/ Considering sky's play also and the slot's ISO (comments on vig/bp), could kinda be felt like trying to mock a vig and being vig bait (i.e. scum/traitor).

---

Presenting today's scum pool of {HWS/Alonzo, ejji and duck}
TR on {ruru, vex, creature}
Null on others

I mean I'm almost always wrong on you
So really I'm just letting you live as scum to make up for mislynching you as town

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2155 (isolation #48) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:53 am

The way quotes just appear in my posts is like dark magic
Who has cursed me

That wasn't supposed to be there

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2253 (isolation #49) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:34 am

Sort of annoyed Gamma was the lynch
I know you all think you have so much more context than me and a better feel for each other
But like vca is less subjective than all that

Alonzo/Enigma/BuJaber are my favorite lynch options for today

Hypo-inno on the worst

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2255 (isolation #50) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:37 am

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMM

VOTE: Enigma

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2257 (isolation #51) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:39 am

@BuJ is your read on my slot based on my preds or me or both

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2262 (isolation #52) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:45 am

yeah if it's based on preds whatever
I can't really argue and from a cursory glance I don't love their play either (thought arguably it's stronger play than Alonzo's so far)

Look again at the D1 EOD vc. If Gamma was scum, all but three votes were on scum - and 2/3 of those votes were the two people being wagoned -- and the third was the nightkill! It just seemed really really unlikely and I'm bothered by how ruru discredited my point there

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2263 (isolation #53) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:49 am

anyway I guess it's a sort of moot point except to maybe analyze how I was ignored/discredited in the building of that wagon

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2272 (isolation #54) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:35 am

In post 2267, ruru wrote:
In post 2262, Irrelephant11 wrote:Look again at the D1 EOD vc. If Gamma was scum, all but three votes were on scum - and 2/3 of those votes were the two people being wagoned -- and the third was the nightkill! It just seemed really really unlikely and I'm bothered by how ruru discredited my point there
you'll need to explain this without "look at this it's so unlikely" (tw and jjh were scum in this game) unless you have statistics to suggest it is actually any less likely than the other options or statistics to suggest that I should just sheep your reads without question in general

If you think that linked game is somehow similar to what I am talking about you will have to show me, step by step, how it's similar at all.

My point here is that A50 would have to be the ONLY townie not voting scum at EOD1 if Gamma were scum (and then be the nightkill!!). That just. isn't. likely. It's obvious why - and the point bears out, Gamma flipped town. I'm not even asking for towncred here, I'm just expressing annoyance and you're telling me I'm wrong -

No I'm not

, he flipped town!

In post 2268, ruru wrote:so, funny story, when I started a super random push on gamma which I phrased in the most honest and non-rhetorical manner possible, I expected him to fight it if he was town

I wasn't sure if he was actually the lynch

then he just kind of blew it off and went to go post in other games

which part of this story is funny

this is a seriously crappy and scummy response to getting the lynch you wanted and having it flip green
"Well, it was his fault, not mine" is not a towny response. town says something like "huh wonder what other reads I've got wrong" or "I guess that flip means ___ is maybe scum"
Here you're answering the "why did ruru push a townie's lynch" pre-emptively, no one had asked it

it might just be I'm annoyed with you here but I'm seriously scumreading your entrance to this day
I've also thought since ISOing her that ruru could maybe actually be traitor

In post 2269, ruru wrote:
In post 2139, Irrelephant11 wrote:Not to be rude but I think your nsg thing sounds weak because it is actually just too weak to use here
At least if you want anyone to agree with you...
zzz

no more criticizing the gamma lynch please and if you wanted enigma to happen you should've read the game first.

Wow this is freaking rude and ignores how I've ISO'd most players and read most of the game
Like I did a crap ton of work for replacing in ~pg 70, somewhat close to deadline, and you're basically saying "Your read wasn't better than mine because you did the work or had good arguments," [sidenote: I

super

did both of these things] "it was just random, and also it's your fault he was lynched because you weren't around during sitewide v/la"
Is your goal here to antagonize me????
I'm so mad rn

In post 2270, ruru wrote:
I'm okay with lynching town in a setup with nightkills if they're going to play like that
and it's higher ev than lynching someone who's slightly more likely to be scum, but won't fight their lynch as town, and that's just the reality of the nightkill being an overpowered ability

Play like what? How does town have to play to deserve your being okay with lynching them? Because Gamma wasn't even that scummy!

I am experiencing angerrrrrrrrrrr and I don't like it

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2273 (isolation #55) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:36 am

In post 2272, Irrelephant11 wrote:you're basically saying "Your read wasn't better than mine because you did the work or had good arguments," [sidenote: I super did both of these things] "it was just random, and also it's your fault he was lynched because you weren't around during sitewide v/la"

and this from you also isn't how town treats a scumread either
I forget what your read on my slot is but if you think I'm town you're putting too much into making me feel bad/discrediting me

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2274 (isolation #56) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:38 am

In post 2265, Alonzo wrote:Irrelaphant what do you think about how Frank got on here? Timid town? If so who leant on him the hardest do you think?

Who's frank?
oh me

what's your question here?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2277 (isolation #57) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:18 am

I have neither, except to say that I have never once seen a town so coordinated as to have 9/10 town voting scum d1
Given mafia is also a game of lying and manipulation and division, it seems obvious why this would be so incredibly rare (if it's ever happened at all)
You seem to feel the worst is likely scum, too, and if he were scum with Gamma, 11/13 votes would have been on scum at EOD1.

Like why isn't this obvious? @anyone other than ruru, am I being dumb or is it just true that I made a good point and ruru is refusing to accept that?

The fact you are being obstinate on this point makes me wonder about your alignment - in fact, mafia being "a game of randomness and incomplete information" is exactly why it should have been clear by looking at that votecount that town was never going to be so incredibly accurate as to be almost exclusively voting two scum in NM/GE.

And that's all without even mentioning that scum would have to be idiotic/very strange to vote A50 in the situation where Gamma was scum, which you've mostly glossed over with "provide statistics and read every post of the game or I don't need to listen to you"

pedit: Well regardless of your alignment, yes, I am

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2280 (isolation #58) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:30 am

A question: Do you personally feel like this is a high functioning town?

I didn't at that time have reason to townread Gamma, it was three ISO posts later that I noticed and brought up the vc that made gamma a bad lynch choice
Also your nsg point was just weak, you said so yourself

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2282 (isolation #59) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:36 am

I agree that you don't, based on some of the posts you have made in the past
Do you then feel it would be reasonable to assume 9/10 town votes were on scum d1?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2284 (isolation #60) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:47 am

You're dodging my question. A not-influential scumteam does not mean that town will have accurate reads. Town must function at a high rate to consolidate their votes onto scum well.
Do you feel it would be reasonable to assume that 9/10 town votes in this game were on scum d1? (ignoring the knowledge we now have that such an assumption would be wrong in this case)

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2287 (isolation #61) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:58 am

that's literally not the same at all
If you think town is not performing well, you think that town is performing poorly. If you think town is performing poorly, that should affect how you look at vote placements. Town that is performing poorly does not have 9/10 votes on scum d1 - that would be a town that is performing well.

You are pretending that I am saying the equivalent of "how likely is it that town votes scum in RVS"? I'm not pulling crap out of nowhere. I am talking about an end of day vote count, where it is reasonable to assume that some town have been swayed by scum to vote town, some scum are voting scum because that slot was highly lynchable anyway, and ANYWAY I WAS RIGHT
HELLO WE HAVE A FLIP WHY ARE YOU STILL TELLING ME IM WRONG HERE

pedit: whatever I'll just be done interacting with ruru for 24 hours.

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:04 am

I'll note here that you've basically cashed in any d1 towncred by your gamma vote
my inno on you notwithstanding I don't know that I have strong reasoning remaining to defend your slot
So
Be towny

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2298 (isolation #63) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:08 am

yes hello how would you like to go about sorting me

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2299 (isolation #64) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:13 am

skitter is still a top townread, as is the worst

working on more thorough vca and re-reading more of the thread because idk what else to be doing rn

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2301 (isolation #65) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:49 am

I have a hypo-inno
His self meta is towny to me in the same way others have townread your self meta - especially because I've played enough games with him recently to know that it's pretty accurate self-meta
He dunked on scum d1
I'm ignoring the skygazer part of the slot who seemed to lolpost and then replace out when the game got more serious iirc

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2303 (isolation #66) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:52 am

I'll note regarding those townreading enigma for his EOD1 play that I've seen scum do "I don't care who's lynched let's just lynch" near the end of the day to look towny - if he thought his partner was likely to flip regardless, might as well play it that way

BuJaber vote placements aren't stellar at first glance but I thought I townread some of his posts, and nothing damning has come up in vca yet

@enigma how do the flips affect your reads?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2304 (isolation #67) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:55 am

In post 2293, skitter30 wrote:i think you have a decent point
i also think ruru doesn't really view mafia from that pov
i also can understand why you're annoyed with her
i'm trying ot figure out if that annoyance is ai and rn i'm not sure

I'd like to say it's town-indicative but honestly I get annoyed with people who disagree with me on how to play the game IRL regardless of alignment like all the time so probably it isn't

@tw please talk more about your reasons for "wolfsiding"

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2306 (isolation #68) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:13 am

The first time CJV was up for a lynch, this was Enigma's set of thoughts

In post 1009, Enigma wrote:The speed at which the CJ wagon formed is a bit off putting .. the VCA will be interesting if/when he flips

CJ and NWMM are so contentless I can barely make a read, and I don't even know if CJ has read the whole thread yet ...
Reading Open 733 where CJ was scum (with tw), CJ actually (pretends) to scumhunt a bit, actively pushes mislynches, and interacts with the gamestate. Open 725 is a bit of a mess to read, but CJ feels also a bit more actively driving lynches (and he was bussing his partner AP).

Maybe part of why I'm hesitant, in addition to CJ simply having zero content, is a lack of CJ voting on someone so far and advancing the game state. I've also mislynched CJ in other games, partly because he was lurky and didn't get a chance to defend himself. But I've also seen town CJ defend himself as the lynch target when he was more active.

So meta wise I don't quite see the picture on CJ.

In post 1011, Enigma wrote:
In post 927, the worst wrote:IDK what I'm getting from cjv is pretty similar to the current best meta tell on scum!Creature

normally it feels like he's mislynched because he lurks for ages then says what's actually on his mind without stepping anyone through his thought processes and his reads are actually often absolutely fine it's just he doesn't always explain them

here he's taken quite a lot of time to produce incredibly safe reads with reasoning and then occasionally floats in and says the game is moving too fast

I just kinda want something that blows my mind, or a lynch
I'm also bad at reading posts so just properly read this. After my previous post defending with CJ, I do agree that this is somewhat scummy. Do you (tw, and AP) think his activity is comparable to his past scum games? My meta dive was really quick, though I kinda felt CJ was a bit more active in those games.

In post 1012, Enigma wrote:Tbh my preference is still frank as he has yet to satisfactory alleviate the scum concerns on him.
Would not be opposed to CJ vig shot, maybe because I'm not convinced about his alignment (and maybe there is/isn't a vig) but also because I'm kinda interested to know how CJ flips just to figure out the deal with wagon dynamics lol.

Need to read Gamma properly.

Would like to see more from Bujaber and HWS as not sure about their slots.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2307 (isolation #69) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:15 am

In post 2305, BuJaber wrote:
In post 2302, Enigma wrote:I’m still back to back travelling for work for the next two weeks so posting may be sporadic.
You just beat skitter in the VLA competition.

Phantismo.. got any past games where you repped into a scum slot?

Am I phantismo? that's fun and new
No I don't
I've replaced into town slots four times before I think?
Five including this one

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2310 (isolation #70) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:27 am

I've only got the one completed scum game - viewtopic.php?t=75861
perfect scum win mostly by my sheer towniness (partner replaced twice) + a little night action luck

@skitter looking at how you've treated flipped slots in the past, nothing is coming up scummy. You avoided scumreading A50, making him less likely to be the nightkill from scum!you imo, and at one point you left the tw wagon d1 and shortly after NM joined the tw wagon - I doubt this sort of oppositional wagon movement would make sense for the two of you as a scumteam
I will say you're not nearly so towny if enigma does flip red, because you've had pretty vague defenses for him, but then again I guess I expect something stronger in defense of him if that's the route you'd take to help your teammate

Also just all around towny play that I've seen from you in past games you've played and am learning to identify

I'm not reading ruru because I believe the 24 hours of me ignoring her slot is still happening

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2311 (isolation #71) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:34 am

In post 2310, Irrelephant11 wrote:perfect scum win mostly by my sheer towniness (partner replaced twice) + a little night action luck

while I would obviously recommend taking this with a grain of salt, I will say that I've gotten better as town over time and like to think I couldn't pull off this same "wide-eyed town naiveté" scumgame in a game with players I've played with before (skitter and the worst)

But yeah you would be wise to be very wary of reading me off tone or postcount or like anything conventional
I've been told I can only be read through either lots of pressure or watching my progressions closely for an agenda
good luck

Spoiler:

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2312 (isolation #72) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:02 am

In post 1069, Enigma wrote:I mean I don't think it is possible to get a lynch on duckling happening in <48 hours. I'm pretty sold that I want to see Frank and/or CJ flip at this stage and it would take a bit of convincing to move enough people onto counter wagons before EOD

In post 1087, Enigma wrote:Can we just lynch one of CJ and frank, and move onto other stuff the next day? There is no plurality this game. This day is nearly two weeks already....
If Frank/CJ flip town, my bet is on at least one scum in the lurkers/non-voters HWS, GE, BuJ

In post 1107, ruru wrote:
In post 1094, ruru wrote:I think it's time for frank to claim
Someone 2nd this please

we still have to deal with vig things before eod

ceejay shouldn't claim before frank (or we should be lynching ceejay)

there are also a couple posts I want to make before eod and before ceejay claims and I'm busy tomorrow

VOTE: Alonzo

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2313 (isolation #73) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:03 am

okay that time the misplaced quotes are definitely my fault lol

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2359 (isolation #74) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:50 am

In post 2319, Alonzo wrote:
In post 2314, Alonzo wrote:
In post 2312, Irrelephant11 wrote:VOTE: Alonzo
Dogshit
my reads are also dogshit. Lets talk.

Oaky, talk to me about ruru, enigma and BuJaber

In post 2321, Alonzo wrote:skitter yours is the only iso I 'v not read, will i find you swimming upstream or going with the flow?

curious to hear what you find, marking for myself

In post 2333, skitter30 wrote:does anyone have a strong read on irrel's slot either way?

me
am town

In post 2334, skitter30 wrote:ok this'll be a ramble-y type thing

-> still kinda feel like the pagetops thing in rvs exhibited a townie type tone

-> also 77 i feel is a kinda unstilted response to someone (presumably fake-claiming) traitor

-> just feels kinda townie and non-agenda-y tonally and just very guileless

-> noting that he's kinda defensive of sky

->
In post 1553, Enigma wrote:VOTE: NM
Trollylololol

HURT: duck
still don't think this is a bussing vote tbh

-> still think 2062 feels townie

idk and nothing realy feels scummy from him imo

Did you read the things I called out from enigma when he talked multiple people out of lynching the red-flipped slot the first time, instead suggesting the slot should be vigged? If he knows there's not likely a vig it was a pretty good defense. Even later he kept saying "I'd rather lynch Frank" as the NM wagon built up and he definitely only voted NM after it was inevitable and there was no more time left to get momentum elsewhere

In post 2337, ruru wrote:Ugh

so, gamma being mislynched is probably a loose indicator of his reads being accurate (not necessarily enigma though, maybe just the worst) and me not being shot is probably a loose indicator that I'm wrong about at least one of {tw, bujaber} or that I have an inno on scum because creature was being useless and his reads on both lynches were wrong.

I think out of all the players gamma was sheeping my case on tw most and I'm hesitant to drop enigma down to lynchable just based on gamma's reads when it's quite possible he was lynched for that reason too.

it's definitely possible that skitter and I have a positive feedback confbias loop on enigma; we've done this before, but I still think it's more likely he's just town. nothing about his posting seems scum-indicative (compared to his town meta) to me and I would expect someone who hasn't played scum in a long time to be more nervous and exhibit more scumtells in a game with people he just played with.

I kind of wanted to roleplay nsg and just lurk and see what happens rather than pushing stuff today to try to figure out if I'm just wrong about everything but I'm not nsg and I feel like I need to interact with the game and I'll feel like a gamethrower if I do that and it doesn't lead to a win so whatever I will be actually playing the game now

I feel like there's multiple times in this post where you say "huh this points to scum!enigma but I'd like to just ignore that", correct me if I'm wrong
I think you and skitter are both hanging on to town ~feels~ about enigma even as I scumcase him
Like you're both just ignoring the substance of my and others' scumreads of enigma and then being like "wEiRD hoW EniGmA geTS VOteS bUt noT IrrELEpHaNt riGHt? makes enigma town"
Also wasn't it you who said either Alonzo or Gamma was likely scum? Why are you ignoring Alonzo now? (maybe it wasn't, but if not, please direct this question in the right direction for me, thanks)

In post 2348, skitter30 wrote:i guess one of the things i'm worried about is that there's a bunch of people in my 'i can't read super well rn' zone and gamma/enigma keep on drawing votes, and alonzo a little bit too, but irrel and bujaber haven't really much at all

also i'm a little bit worried about irrel because both of his preds are bad and he's supposed to have a good scumgame so like idk if i'll ever really catch him doing anything scummy

bujaber is kinda like lacking the passion/stubbornness from pypx/y. like he's just kinda around but not really *pushing* anything; in pypx/y he got into a massive fight with sando and kept trying to draw people's attention back there; he doesn't really have any strong scumreads here

at the same time i don't know if i can blame him because i don't have super strong scumreads here either

skitter please see above
also BuJ is definitely getting votes and in previous phases I was nearly the lynch it just so happens to be the pushes on those slots are coming from you and ruru so like fypov it seems like "oh no one is voting them" but fmpov it's like "why is enigma so hard to lynch, the only towny thing about him is his tone"
Which isn't to say I have to be right here and you have to be wrong I'm not 100% confident on enigma and I do scumread BuJ to some extent I just think you and ruru are using fairly weak reasoning to arrive at the townread on enigma

In post 2351, ruru wrote:zzz

I kind of just want to lynch the worst even if he's probably not groupscum

I feel like his "I'd rather be lynched before lylo even if you think a traitor flip could clear me" reaction is really traitor-indicative too

Please explain why it's traitor indicative

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2360 (isolation #75) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:54 am

ruru isn't expecially towny to me at this point, I think her consistent "I don't feel like playing this game/we're gonna lose" attitude (check her ISO, it shows up every game day) is anti-town
At the same time her vote on NM is less buss-y than most, and she has done a fair amount of real work this game to get things sorted

@ruru if you want the worst lynched please give me a bulleted list of reasons why because I'm not seeing it, and though my inno isn't like a 100% clear (I don't think those exist in this setup anyway) I really don't get your case on him from an objective pov so I'm not super interested in voting my inno

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2362 (isolation #76) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:39 am

VOTE: enigma

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2366 (isolation #77) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:37 am

In post 2364, ruru wrote:do you think enigma should have known ceejay was scum?
do his posts read like svs?

-what? I think he

did

know ceej was scum because they were buddies..?? at least that's what it implied when I say I scumread him
-yeah that's what I'm saying, he was subtly defending the slot in a way I think is scummy

In post 2363, skitter30 wrote:i don't really think he talked people out of lynching cj; more giving his opinion that he found the slot hard to read (ie i odn't remember him actually convincing anyone not to lynch cj because of that). suggesting the slot should be vigged is still +town to me; he doens't know if there is or is not a vig unless he's like actually the vig;

If scum took no mods then there's only a 1/5 chance of a vig existing, scum!enigma would probably rather take those odds than a lynch
If you go back and re-read enigma around the first time CJ was wagoned and you still feel that part of his play is towny I will re-evaluate

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2368 (isolation #78) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:05 am

wow okay idk why but I had to re-read what you were saying about tw and "traitor flip" a LOt of times before I understood
So the worst would be "cleared" if someone else flipped traitor
But the worst, rather than aiming to find and lynch the traitor, is being WIFOM-y and saying he should just be lynched before lylo
So therefore, he's likely the traitor, because a townie would go about being in that situation differently

This is what you're saying y/n? I can sorta see it I guess

also "personality clash" is a little misreppy, though just a little I guess based on how I said what I said. I'm saying there's scum motivation to fake a lack of enthusiasm for this game to encourage others to feel the same. I do suspect I'm partially scumreading you (not that I have much of a read on you either way actually rn) for being at odds with my thought processes in general and I'm interpreting that as having an agenda, which on the whole means I should probably just townread you and see where we go from there

If tw is traitor I think BuJ is the other scum btw

In post 845, the worst wrote:VOTE: ceejayvinoya
if I'm wrong on this blow my mind, friend

In post 848, the worst wrote:FOS Buj as well but despite being a friend I don't have as strong a feel for his scumgame

skitter is pinging town on second impressions but I will only have a good read on her when I read the game chronologically T_T

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2370 (isolation #79) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:32 am

Spoiler: Idk why I was keeping this to myself? Colored vcs for d1

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2371 (isolation #80) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:35 am

okay I have wrapped my head around it and I think that makes some sense
Waiting to hear from skitter re:enigma d1 but for now I'll UNVOTE:

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2379 (isolation #81) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:53 am

I also thought it was implied

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2387 (isolation #82) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:16 am

oh I didn't even notice we had an even number alive
Yeah I'm good with #2, I don't really have a strong preference
I feel like I should but eh, they all make various amounts of sense depending on how many roles there are to claim and idk what to think there

pedit: yes we would?
pedit2: lol

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:03 am

yeah okay the worst can be scum

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:04 am

I personally would rather massclaim sooner rather than later, given my developing read on the worst

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2498 (isolation #85) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:58 am

In post 2397, BuJaber wrote:I don't think massclaim + no lynch works kinda defeats the purpose so do you want to lynch today?

I put this in my quote wall and

then

caught up and answered this last and idk what my answer is anymore

In post 2398, the worst wrote:
In post 2392, the worst wrote:Rel/ruru what are your reads on each other rn?

I said not long before this that I'm gonna townread ruru for a bit and see where it leads me

In post 2403, the worst wrote:
In post 2402, ruru wrote:
In post 2398, the worst wrote:
In post 2392, the worst wrote:Rel/ruru what are your reads on each other rn?
this was answered on like the last page unless you're asking for how I'm reading people post-massclaim discussion in which case I'm not answering yet
that's like
super obviously why i'm re-asking at this point

answer please. we're not no-lynching and we're not massclaiming today.

Why aren't we no lynching or massclaiming today?

In post 2409, skitter30 wrote:i keep swinging to bujaber/irrel

mostly cuz i townread everyone else more

but i'm kinda ??? dubious and uncertain

I'm not like a huuuuge fan of how in every other game we've played you've worked hard at sorting me and now that I'm a replacement you're just like "well I can't trust me to sort him so I'll just ignore him and read his previous slots"
Not just because it's annoying that it feels like your playing with my slot instead of me (personal reason)
But also because the fact I reportedly have a strong scumgame hasn't stopped you from actively sorting me in the past
If skitter wins this game as scum this was my hint....

In post 2424, the worst wrote:
In post 1559, ofrhz wrote:
VOTE COUNT 1.28
Almost50 (0):

HeWhoSwims (1):
Almost50

the worst (1):
Not_Mafia

ruru (0):

BuJaber (0):

Not_Mafia (7):
the worst, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience, Creature, Enigma, ejjinami
LYNCH

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (2):
HeWhoSwims, BuJaber

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (1):
Gamma Emerald

With
12
alive, it takes
7
to lynch.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-14 16:30:00)

Other
:
- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- HeWhoSwims still needs to be replaced
btw never ever ever ever lynch off this wagon d3

lol
I mostly agree with this sentiment as a general rule but if you're scum it's always with one of Alonzo/BuJ so this post doesn't do much to clear that part up for me

In post 2427, the worst wrote:also town on Alonzo for fairly intangible reasons but I feel like I have a tendency to get lazy and start scumreading his posting style when I'm deflated as town

if those assumptions are right there's 2 wolves in {ruru, buj, enigma} which I don't
think
is right but all the same I'll go try and a solve in these curly brackets and see how the cards fall.

This and the townreads you expressed in the previous post are sorta opaque and it makes me think you're aiming for pocketing
At the same time {ruru, buj, enigma} was a lynchpool for me at one point earlier this game day

I'm at a point where it feels strongly like it's either tw/buj or ruru/enigma but I also feel like the Alonzo slot is getting by too easily and if skitter's scum we would all probably miss that fact
so I guess add Alonzo/skitter to the list

meaning I've got a great townblock fmpov of me/korina

In post 2430, the worst wrote:Tbh I'm exhausted trying to soft TPR too hard and eat a nightkill so you lazy fuckers don't have to sort me so I'll go try and solve this the good old fashioned way :c

oh good
glad to see you, if scum, have changed your meta
and that either way you'll sort someone

In post 2437, ruru wrote:
In post 2357, the worst wrote:
In post 2356, BuJaber wrote:Why are you so sure ruru's town?
believe me I haven't given the read out easily

In post 2391, the worst wrote:
In post 2358, BuJaber wrote:I'm not arguing against the read I want to know your reasons if you please.

Because from my pov he's been given a case for you being scum but not really pushing it and like I expect you to be suspicious of him for that.
Why should I be suspicious of that?
also sorry to be evasive but ctrl+f of ruru in my iso will probably give a fair bit.
I thought you sorted me already

current scumread feels very agenda-y

I actually think this scumread from him would make a lot of sense if it had come a little earlier
As it is BuJ basically suggested in thread that he should scumread you and then ~48 hours it came to life so I feel less good about it

the worst wrote:a case on enigma

I think the case is pretty strong and is what I saw in enigma - especially a lot of scummy soft defenses for the red slot that I don't get why anyone isn't scumreading

In post 2448, ruru wrote:I assume you're talking about 2442?

I would expect a meta-case to look something like "enigma does X more frequently as scum than as town" or "X is a general scumtell and enigma doesn't do it as town" and I don't feel like that was either of those

like if you want to talk about ISPing skygazer is a lot worse and I haven't felt much genuine scumhunting from your slot this game either

like, you realize bujaber is the other one pushing the argument that enigma is fluffing too much to be town and I'm scumreading both of you so enigma really strongly feels like designated mislynch to me

I don't really remember ever reading a case on BuJ from you that's strong other than "he posts more and better as town"
I'll ISO you after I finish this post to see if I'm forgetting something but the way you say you feel about the worst pushing the designated enigma mislynch is kinda how I feel about you pushing a designated buj mislynch
except also you just want the worst flipped which...
I dunno it feels obvious that it's one of the two pairs I said earlier but it also feels for some reason like it shouldn't be so obvious
Like I townread the worst and ruru's play for similar reasons (unlikely to be partners with the flipped slot, lots of posting and effort) and scumread them for similar reasons (annoyingly keeping some things to themselves, acknowledging general lack of WIM for most game days)
And I feel like I'm being asked to choose between the two of you and maybe there's a right choice but maybe it's neither...

Spoiler: maybe it's

In post 2480, ruru wrote:
In post 2476, the worst wrote:someone please swing by here and say they actually think ruru is approaching this from a town point of view and trying to sort me and not stubbornly steering a lynch. please please please please please
no, I'm not really trying to sort you because I think you're just scum

this is a little crappy
because his case on enigma is actually pretty good
and he's right that you're not engaging with his content
and like even if the worst is scum you said yourself he plays survivalistically so maybe he's handing you his partner on a silver platter
anyway I do agree with a lot of the content of his case even as I lose my townread on the worst so do you at least understanding why I'm partner reading you and enigma for the same reasons you're partner reading tw/buj

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2500 (isolation #86) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:17 am

In post 2499, BuJaber wrote:Why are you trying to backtrack on your TR of ruru? She's been pretty consistent in her approach on you. What triggered you to change your approach to her now?

I think it's obvious the answer to this is "BuJaber"
I, like, just said that

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2504 (isolation #87) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:40 am

In post 2501, BuJaber wrote:How does that answer my question?

The reason the worst started "trying to backtrack on [his] TR of ruru" is because like 5 pages ago you said "I'd expect you to scumread ruru for the way she's treating you"

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2509 (isolation #88) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:02 am

Well no even if you're town and he's scum you saying "I'd expect town!you to scumread ruru" might get him to fake a scumread on ruru
I would read the worst as more likely town if you're town and go back to wanting enigma's flip

@skitter okay fair
on the other hand I think in Presidents you were like "why isn't he more confident, like he was in that game he replaced in?" and Shoshin was like "'Cause he replaced in"
idk I just wish you'd poke and prod at me more instead of just repeating "How about the elephant in the room huh?"
But I still think you're town so w/e you'll figure me out eventually

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2512 (isolation #89) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:16 am

idk if it's AI, he replaced out of another game too I think

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2515 (isolation #90) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:21 am

yeah idk I mean I don't think I can elaborate here so I'm just gonna nullread the rep out I think

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2518 (isolation #91) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:33 am

I always check the replacement queue updates because I sometimes enjoy repping in to games and trying to win them using the power of retrospect. He replaced out of this game and another one.

@skitter what did you think of the content of tw's posts about ruru and about enigma?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2519 (isolation #92) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:33 am

As in, did you find any of it convincing?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2523 (isolation #93) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:44 am

I mean it's either genuine or has nothing to do with his feelings about this game

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2560 (isolation #94) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:15 pm

I’m fine with massclaiming

I’m curious why I’m in lynchpiols with Enigma and buy given they’re my two fav lynches

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2563 (isolation #95) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:31 pm

i Do think you should find it unlikely that your lynch-chain pool would actually include me as scum given I started the game day with the other two as my fav lynches

Yes I’d like an explanation for your read on me

Also re:tw I wish you wouldn’t scumread me for something I can’t talk about

@Performer I’m eager to hear your Alonzo read

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2565 (isolation #96) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:56 pm

I don’t think I’ve ever pushed you? Besides some early frustration... you’re just who I would look at if Enigma flopped red
Similarly with tw if BuJ flopped red

But whatever I guess I get it

Does your read on me come from my play mostly or my preds mostly

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2567 (isolation #97) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:07 pm

Mm fine I accept your read
Would my green flip cause any great re-evaluating on your part or would you probably have the same reads?
Obviously the context of how I got lynched would matter but in theory if you just suddenly knew I was town?

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2569 (isolation #98) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Well on another note I’m sorta townreading enigma’s most recent posts
Which I recognize would be convenient timing if he’s my partner but I especially like his point about how to catch skitter late game
I’m approaching a place where no scumteam makes strong sense to me except maybe tw/BuJ with tw as traitor
I’d have to be right about the replacement being nai

Anyway that’s where my heads at

Korina where you at

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #2582 (isolation #99) » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:36 am

@skitter I actually agree about partner-reading, so my bad
It just so happens that potential-traitor-Tw really hinted that he was Buj’s partner, and he also followed BuJ’s in-thread advice

Also ruru is a potnential traitor from early game weirdness, and she’s being more defensive on enigma’s behalf than I think he deserves

So those are the pairings I find likely if I assume there’s a traitor
If there isn’t one I could mayyybe see Enigma/BuJ
But the way everyone including us three has a me/Bu/Enigma lynchpool is making it less likely they’re both scum

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:13 am

In post 2585, skitter30 wrote:
In post 2575, BuJaber wrote:@skitter and performer ^ those are my reasons. Basically to increase the odds of a PR getting results one more day. If they do it should be enough to solve the game. And then we'd start tomorrow with an odd number.
i guess i just don't super see the point of no-lynching when there's 8 alive people rn

==

In post 2582, Irrelephant11 wrote:Also ruru is a potnential traitor from early game weirdness, and she’s being more defensive on enigma’s behalf than I think he deserves
i guess i'm not following why you're going to ruru/enigma and not to me/enigma

In post 60, ruru wrote:Hey guys I'm traitor no shoot pls

VOTE: Almost50

Is there a reason you think I should be traitor-reading you instead? You've both acknowledged you could be wrong about enigma but if one of you is scum with him I'm not townreading ruru nearly as much as I am you

In post 2595, skitter30 wrote:
In post 2592, ruru wrote:just claim please.

I vote bujaber > irrel > enigma > alonzo > korina > skitter
i'm fine with this, with ruru between korina and me

In post 2598, Enigma wrote:Fine with mass claim, I prefer ruru later in the claim line.

Can we put tw/performer either before/after me? Something like this?
bujaber > irrel > enigma > performer > alonzo > korina > ruru > skitter

This final list is fine with me, though I would personally switch enigma and bujaber, but also probably at this rate me/buj/enigma should be ignored when it comes to making this order.

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:38 am

In post 2601, Enigma wrote:Ps I think it’s best if town don’t cc today, or at least until the claim process has finished - we still need to decide if we will lynch or not today. Make an strategic decision on counter claiming, especially if you are investigative, based on other claimed TPRs.

In post 2602, Alonzo wrote:^^ does scum post like this?

this is a good point
I think I'm ready for VOTE: BuJaber

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 am

I'll be honest, 2/3 of this vote is sheeping skitter/ruru

But I'll go ahead and write up a case too because if I'm wrong that's probably how I'll find out

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:52 am

To start, rumour has it BuJ has been kinda lurky

1111, besides being the best #'d post, was pretty towny from BuJ when I replaced in. I still like it. It had lots of good thoughts I agreed with. A couple issues, though:
-townreads Sky/tw for weak reasons (basically TStBS)
-Has my slot/enigma/gamma/alonzoslot/cjv as his scumreads, which... haven't changed at all this whole game
-Uses hurt tags on cjv and says he'd like to vote for my slot (sorta similar to what enigma did regarding cjv, a sort of semi-defense of the slot that keeps it alive one more day in the absence of a vig)

In post 1126, BuJaber wrote:I guess something along these lines:

{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}

These reads made sense for the time he posted them but I'm just noting that if you read BuJ's ISO looking to answer the question "Does it make sense to read BuJ as the groupscum to tw's traitor?" the answer is resoundingly "yes".

In post 1138, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1134, Enigma wrote:
In post 1126, BuJaber wrote:I guess something along these lines:

{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}
Lol who puts themselves in their own readlist
Did I hit a nerve?

this didn't make any sense to me as a post
why say it?
Also regarding this readslist note that gamma is only a scumlean (important later)
1154 and 1243 area couple examples of questions Bu asks the answers to which don't seem to actually matter to him in any obvious way

In post 1248, BuJaber wrote:What's bad about the bolded? I acknowledge her posting was weird but overall the reasons to townread her outweigh the reasons to scumread her.

As for enigma yes we just finished our first game together as far as I recall and yes he was town and maybe he grabbed some pagetops there but he was not on a personal mission to grab pagetops like he seems to be on here. It felt more casual/situational in that game instead of deliberate.

I've read this post before but I'm kinda only now realizing that BuJ's scumread of enigma (which for awhile I agreed with) consists mostly of "his ISO is like just pagetops and nothing else"
Which would be a good point if BuJ hadn't seen enigma do that before?
But when confronted with the fact that, yes he had seen enigma do that before, BuJ's response is basically "yeah but it's scummy here"
which is weaksauce at best and scummy at worst

In post 1342, BuJaber wrote:Well thing is I don't think Enigma is scumhunting. He's posting a few very passive reads that are mostly just sheeping people and the rest of his posts are fluff. Maybe you don't agree with me on the pagetop stuff but let me ask you this: game goes on and reaches 5ish pages and one player has posted 0 reads, only a few comments on setup. He has only 2 votes in that period, his RVS vote and his joke vote on vex. He claims he's not a strong d1 player and relies a bit more on associatives so he starts to rev it up later on in the game. I'll concede I don't know his meta as this is my 2nd game with him but even for someone who isn't a d1 player, wouldn't you expect some effort at least? One or two reads, even if just a meta read. The playerlist is not filled with NM-type players. There was enough there to form some early reads.

For now though since this game is now over and I have confirmation that gamma slot flipped scum: viewtopic.phpf=2&t=76913

I'll VOTE: gamma for similar low level of activity and what seems to me like avoiding getting into it with anyone.
I had a soft meta scum read on him in that game that I didn't act on until he was guiltied. Turns out I was right.

I'm voting gamma or enigma. Vig target should be one of the lurkier options cjv/HWS.

Ejj slot not yet cleared ftr. If he doesn't get distracted with the later posts he would finish catching up faster if you ask me.

I guessssss his move onto Gamma here makes sense? But looking at the context of the day he's building a counterwagon to a tw wagon here, and he rides this slot while shading it weakly as the NM wagon builds. It's pretty icky from a vca perspective, and if someone off-wagon D1 was scum, it's probably BuJ over HWS

In post 1419, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1414, Gamma Emerald wrote:Hm tw could be Town
This might be the weakest TR I've ever seen.

shading gamma d1

In post 1529, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1520, ruru wrote:okay whatever I'm afk for the night

I'm not sure if what tw did is really the towntell I think it is, also the evasiveness is fairly pl-worthy

nm seems to be playing his scum meta so far

{skitter, a50 (skitter)} - this is an actual hard tr based on her being out of her scum meta and not a day 1 "oh skitter's presence in this game is +ev" type of thing, I really mean it this time
{vex} - assuming the self-meta is accurate
{a50, enigma}
{gamma}
{ejji}
{bujaber, hws, nm, tw (a50)}
{tw, nm (a50/tw)}

I'm trying out a new readslist format so people can see both my personal reads and aggregate reads in case I'm shot and the people I was sheeping flip red; it should be pretty self-explanatory

You think tw/nm are partners?

kinda funny post if tw/BuJ are actually the remaining red slots

In post 1655, BuJaber wrote:Tw - do you have a scum game where you posted a lot? I only have the one scumgame to go on and d1 you sort of played to that meta but d2 it's different. Like you're arguing more than I would expect but some of the things you're saying are just so weird.

I find it weird that ruru is able to push tw for bussing cjv which seems rather reachy. Like I don't think tw is obvtown here by any means, but I don't think the way he pushed cjv was scum-indicative. It only makes sense if you go into it thinking 'what would tw do if he repped into a scum slot' it doesn't feel like the correct order of thoughts. Unless ruru genuinenly looks at that and says oh that looks like bussing. If someone other than tw did the same thing would you also think they're bussing ruru? At least then I could understand. Just feels like an awkward attempt at bussing and if he is as good at it as you say I'd expect a smoother attempt.
Also coming from the same person the gamma tr is weird. You are prone to believing that scum!tw had this elaborate bussing strategy, but don't believe scum!gamma could fake forget his partner? Particularly someone who flaked from the site and wasn't talking much he's easily forgettable for real even.

Enigma seems like he's pushing an agenda/creating nk wifom and he continues to post rvs'y posts like 'first' which is just like... why man? A50 did TR him though. I also still think gamma's play is more in line with his scum meta.
I hypo inno alonzo

I need help sorting tw/ruru, vex/skitter still town, alonzo is town, scum pool for today is {ejj, enigma, gamma}

VOTE: gamma

After NM flipped red, BuJ goes back onto the same wagon he had the day before. This is weird especially given his later insistence that two large wagons next to each other usually have 1 scum.
Consistent reads can be towny but this seems a little forced
otoh hypo-inno on Alonzo makes sense fhpov

In post 1707, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1705, skitter30 wrote:like i think it's easy to be confident cj slot was flipping scum if you know that he's scum if that makes sense
Slam dunk

But while my meta dive is iconsistent I'm leaning town for tw. I also don't think we should discount sky's play. Still can't she'd play scum so jestery.

There's a LOT of "sky couldn't have been scum! Too scummy!" in this ISO

In post 1745, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1743, skitter30 wrote:the people i townread are: vex, ruru, enigma, creature

the people i don't are: buj, alonzo, tw, ge, ejji

and three of them are on that wagon
And that makes sense to you?

We know there's a traitor and a groupscum left alive.

You have to ask yourself if both could be on gamma in only 4 votes or if one of them is bussing the other (gamma) in only 4 votes.

If the answer is no to both of those then ejj should either be confirmed scum to you or you know for a fact you are townreading scum.

still think the bolded is icky

In post 1765, BuJaber wrote:Until a cop actually flips alonzo is innocent. Move on.

In post 1790, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1781, the worst wrote:I can't remember why but I have the HotWaterService/Alonzo slot down as pretty town
Only player getting inno'd by two people

I'm not actually sure why this would make Alonzo definitely town. Like I get that two innos increases his town likelihood but...
Also it's not lost on me that BuJ and tw are the two who hypo-inno'd the Alonzo slot. Not sure what to think about that on the whole

In post 1825, BuJaber wrote:Yeah we tried this new strategy where 1 of us flakes out, 1 of us jesters it up then replaces out, and the last one refuses to bus either. Totally plausible

Seriously though, so much "whaaaaaat it can't be me/tw with nm!!" in this ISO
Too-honest scumslip?

In post 1828, BuJaber wrote:Because that was tw and not me and that was at a time when cjv wasn't an obvious lynch.
There were many other optioms to shade.

Scumslip?

In post 1835, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1832, ruru wrote:I think tw is more likely to make endgame right now than ceejay was to make endgame even before tw claimed a guilty
I would agree but if that was the plan behind tw's bussing why wouldn't scum!me join the cjv wagon also?

...

In post 1846, BuJaber wrote:Well gamma I think is scum.
Vex and skitter I think are town regardless of how they vote.
Alonzo is hypothetically innocent
That leaves enigma who I still scumread and tw who's more like null.

Even if I accept that you would scumread two opposite behaviors in the same game, I still don't see how you jumo to me being a teammate of tw.

...

In post 2052, BuJaber wrote:What? How does my statement assume that? Recruited traitor is still a traitor

In post 2054, BuJaber wrote:Ahh okay nevermind ofrhz posted a recruited traitor PM and it says Mafia goon in the actual PM.

Pedit - you asking made me go back and check. that's what happens when you skim mod posts.

Just quoting these to say that I still think it's possible scum who knows there's a traitor in the game has this "slip"

In post 2219, BuJaber wrote:Korina is town please don't make him write another essay on self-meta

I think we had it right earlier gamma v alonzo counterwagons points to 1 scum there.
Look how excited people got to vote elsewhere and how much more divided the VC is now.

Enigma + gamma scumteam

somewhat weak reasoning (town never has two wagons on town?) but more importantly, BuJ never takes this to its full logical extent - that post-gamma-flip, his hypo-inno on Alonzo could be wrong (as could any hypo-inno, since only guilties are 100% in this setup)

In post 2242, BuJaber wrote:Can't blame skitter for just sheeping.

Took a long time for y'all to see it.
VOTE: gamma
L-1

terrible addition to the gamma wagon

In post 2254, BuJaber wrote:{Tw, enigma, elephant, alonzo}
If I'm not cop that's my scumpool.
This is my scumpool if I'm cop:
{Enigma, elephant}

VOTE: Enigma

continues on the same scumread train from d1, no re-evaluation after his preferred lynch flipped green

In post 2259, BuJaber wrote:Elephant I understood why you thought scum bussed but why would gamma have to be town for that?
Like he was scummy and in day 2 was neck and neck for alonzo which points to 1 scum between them in most games.

Based on preds mostly and I feel your posts aren't particularly AI.

still doesn't consider Alonzo (who happens to be widely townread) here.... you get the picture.

In post 2305, BuJaber wrote:
In post 2302, Enigma wrote:I’m still back to back travelling for work for the next two weeks so posting may be sporadic.
You just beat skitter in the VLA competition.

Phantismo.. got any past games where you repped into a scum slot?

In post 2309, BuJaber wrote:Yeah you are lol
I mean.. I wanted to see how genuine/convincing you can sound as scum. Don't think those will help for that.

How about just any recent scum games then?

Another set of questions that basically go nowhere

In post 2358, BuJaber wrote:I'm not arguing against the read I want to know your reasons if you please.

Because from my pov he's been given a case for you being scum but not really pushing it and like I expect you to be suspicious of him for that.

Tells tw "hey why aren't you scumreading ruru? Their case on you I'd think would make you scumread her..?" Then, when tw starts scumreading ruru:

In post 2499, BuJaber wrote:-snip-

Why are you trying to backtrack on your TR of ruru? She's been pretty consistent in her approach on you. What triggered you to change your approach to her now?

In post 2382, BuJaber wrote:Massclaim tomorrow.
Creature was NK meaning scum will likely NK based on hypo-innos next. If any investigatives exist they should be given one more day to get results. And since it doesn't look like we have vig/bg one investigative is guaranteed.

idk this is maybe scummy/maybe towny
Don't really want to elaborate on it

BuJaber wrote: @skitter and performer ^ those are my reasons. Basically to increase the odds of a PR getting results one more day. If they do it should be enough to solve the game. And then we'd start tomorrow with an odd number.

@enigma - you over elephant because my scumread on you is longer and rooted in more information. Elephant has been talking and engaging with people and reacting to current stuff real time. He is sortable. I don't see myself realistically changing my mind on you without a confirmed inno. With my scumpool, my hypo-innos and my PoE the optimal lynch order is you > elephant.

This last post (getting to odd numbers of players, why he's scumreading enigma more than me) is a little towny...

Anyway he'd got more scum equity than a lot of players and him/tw(Performer) is getting so much scum equity as I read their ISOs that I kind of want a flip on one of them sooner rather than later

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:32 am

oh well hm to the skitter thing
my bad

interesting. Does that change your read on Alonzo?
Also am I next?

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:32 am

yeah I am

vt

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:06 am

In post 2613, Performer wrote:bare posting constantly is scummy.

eh

@enigma, your turn to claim whenever you're around

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:16 am

I've already pointed out the posts I thought were tw hinting to his partners that he was their traitor, in addition to a couple other reasons why I think you/buj could be partners

We were always either massclaiming or no lynching today, never both.

I actually townread Alonzo for claiming it was your slot/ruru as scumteam. I had the same thought but I didn't express it because I wanted to see their argument evolve. I don't think it's 100% unreasonable from a surface look at their play this game day. I don't think it's particularly likely, but I don't know why you would scumread Alonzo for it (who's gonna listen to such a kooky theory? Where's the scum motivation in getting an easy lynch through? etc)

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:43 am

@performer
I'll put it this way: you/buj/enigma are my three favorite lynches. Out of those three, the two I could easily see being partners are you/buj, and the more I read both of your ISOs the more likely that feels.

@skitter, some of your questions' answers answer more than one question so here's just some thoughts:
-I think you're town
-I think ruru is townier than not
-If enigma is scum, you're both suspect
-Early game, you pointed out how ruru was being weird
-Two people "claimed traitor" (sky/ruru) in RVS and I still can't think of a reason town would do that so I'm kinda left mildly believing both of them/wondering if maybe they'd be bold enough to say it
-You and ruru have both said "Maybe I'm just confbiased on enigma because of ruru/skitter" but you said it first
-I think enigma has had scummy enough play that until recently he's individually the player I most wanted sorted, and if he's scum, I think ruru is likely scum who has done a good job of pocketing you (because she's less towny, had gameplay early on that you called weird/unlike her meta, and she mimicked your "maybe I'm confbiased" post after you already made it)
-I don't find the above allll that likely
-I think enigma has gotten townier in the last few pages (and I've said as much)
-Now I want to sheep two townreads onto a different scumread

Also re: ruru/tw team I agree it doesn't seem likely when thought about in depth, but on a skim "You're scum!!" "No, YOUUUU!!!" "NO YOU oh wait you're town" [the end] makes sense on a surface level as something bold scum might do (which I get the impression both these players are: bold)
so I like that Alonzo went ahead and said it, even though it's obviously unlikely (and if it's true, their argument is being done

specifically so that

it'd seem unlikely)

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:10 am

In post 2645, BuJaber wrote:Elephant do you like phantismo ? Which do you prefer? Or I could call you ele for convenience.

Anyway why the change of attitude? You came in pretty hot and taking some immediate stances some of which were pretty unique like the gamma townread. Now you're somewhat unsure of yourself and sheepy.

I enjoy all the nicknames! phantismo is great if you want to stick with it

I mean a lot of my townreads keep telling me I'm wrong so at some point I've either got to convince them (doesn't seem to be working), change my reads on them (don't have enough reason to yet, though I'm getting paranoid on skitter) or compromise on what they want. I think you've got pretty good scum equity, so you're my new vote.

In post 2646, Performer wrote:ok what is all this usage of hypo mean...does it stand for hypothetical?
and who is phantismo?

me

on another note it might just be tone but I'm not loving performer's catch up
I'll wait a little longer before passing judgment

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:06 am

In post 2653, skitter30 wrote:
In post 2652, Irrelephant11 wrote:(don't have enough reason to yet, though I'm getting paranoid on skitter)
do tell

actually i kinda like performer's catchup tonally

I'll wait on the performer thing a little longer
I'm getting paranoid of you more the more you say things like "I don't really have any strong scumreads" and "I think I want this lynch but I could be wrong it's really just PoE at this point"
It doesn't help that I remain in your PoE and I know I'm town

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:14 am

@Alonzo it's your turn to claim

Performer wrote:ftr, I don't like bujaber, ruru, and am getting increasingly wary of korina .

you said you had me tr, ruru & engima sr. why?
what are your OTHER reads too, and why?

In depth answers as to "why" are already in my ISO
If you've read that and still have questions about my reads I'll gladly elaborate

{me}
--
{skitter, korina}
{ruru}
{alonzo} - null
{you, enigma}
{BuJaber}

Performer wrote:is anyone townreading korina/vex? If so , why.

A lot of us are townreading that slot, though with his slight activity slump lately maybe we shouldn't be so much
Some reasons:
-In depth self meta that seemed really genuine
-Replacing into his own alt's slot because he thought he'd been playing so well he was comfortable being himself ITT
-Lots of effort to setup spec early on
-iirc the associations with the flipped red slot weren't svs-y
-I'm forgetting a couple things here I think...

@skitter do you have an example of you townreading everyone w/ no scumreads in another game?

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:33 am

mmk that was just a quick BS check because it kinda sounded like BS

let's do something crazy like
lynch korina

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:45 am

"scummy pop-in"
[redacted]

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:53 am

I mean I SAID "something crazy" lol

I guess I said it because Korina feels like he's trying to live in our blind spots this gameday and I feel like I'm starting to townread my scumreads a little but not vice versa; korina feels like the hidden scum if there is one
But maybe this feeling that I'm missing something is just a function of the game stalling

I wish Alonzo would claim we're not gonna be left with a lot of time to pick a lynch post-massclaim at this rate
Not that I think we should rush, Alonzo should take his turn
I'm just nervous we're gonna get to the end of the massclaim line, learn v valuable information, and then have to scramble to make a smart lynch

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:06 am

@ruru

what do you think of me/the worst from a few RL days ago now that both our slots have claimed vt?
Answer this when you claim I guess

@Korina if you're scum I have no clue where you got your confidence

I don't think you're actually scummy
I just think your gameplay has decreased in both quantity and quality over time
The fact that you're busy IRL might be enough explanation there

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:26 am

Agreed that Alonzo's claim is believable

I disagree there's cog-diss there. It's the same feeling of paranoia I had about you that then moved to Korina. I'm not actually scumreading either of you I just feel like BuJ/Performer is a little too easy and am wondering who I got wrong

Or it's BuJ/Performer and it's completely right and you should all sheep me on it already

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:28 am

In post 2684, Performer wrote:If I understand correctly - Buj why do you have sr on irrelephant, and why do you tr skitter - she has you & irrelephant as scum.

irrelephant you have skitter as tr and she has you & buj as scum though. Interesting.

Why is this interesting? I townread people who I think are wrong all the time

In post 2687, skitter30 wrote:
In post 2674, Irrelephant11 wrote:I disagree there's cog-diss there. It's the same feeling of paranoia I had about you that then moved to Korina. I'm not actually scumreading either of you I just feel like BuJ/Performer is a little too easy and am wondering who I got wrong
my point is more that you're telling me you're getting paranoid of me for not having any major scumreads and then proceed to say that your scumreads are all getting townier and you're wondering where you went wrong

-snip-

This is actually a really fair point
Alright you can be solidly town again

In post 2688, Performer wrote:I'm starting to wonder if the remaining scum are a certain pair in here.

do tell

Spoiler: lol

In post 2708, skitter30 wrote:
so i'm just going to treat ruru and alonzo as for now town; ruru prob gets nk'd tonight either by play or by protecting alonzo; i'll worry about alonzo after that i think

i'm town

so two scum in {enigma/performer/irrel/bujaber/vex}

going to go here i think for now

VOTE: bujaber

Agree with bolded
Actually, I think I agree with all of it

In post 2712, Korina wrote:I'll save you time on #2: I said that it was unlikely for scum to take all three, however, I thought they'd have certainly taken two: Daytalk and {JOAT, Rolecop}.

Here's the quotes that were relevant:
In post 43, Vex Vience wrote:
In post 41, Enigma wrote:Actually thanks vex that’s quite useful. I was too lazy to look myself, partly because of what you mentioned about mods not flipping on post 0.

What’s interesting is that it’s 15 games, so from glance of numbers the average no of mods per game is quite low.
roughly about 1.2 mods/game
which is quite interesting in general
if im scum id wanna take around two mods not one

In post 33, Vex Vience wrote:i think scum were very likely to take:
daytalk, joat and rolecop if they took three
i don't think they did, and
im 100% sure they did take daytalk
meaning for me its between {joat/rc} for scum second mod

@Korina why were you so sure scum took daytalk? I don't think many players would choose it (though skitter and I would, for example), but also didn't your analysis of most-commonly-chosen mods reveal daytalk was one of the least common?

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:50 am

oh interesting
that you thought of that makes me believe your claim more strongly

did either of you provide crumbs?

Also @ruru did you respond to my question about how you read me/tw interactions post-claim yet?

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:13 am

Okay

Agreed on his slot being real weird at this point
Also I'm unsure what to do about scumreading BuJ/Performer but BuJ lining up Performer to be the lynch after enigma
Probably I shouldn't read into it that much since I find BuJ scummy in a vacuum, not just in a partner-y way

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:25 am

I don't mean to argue that that's definitely not what happened (and in fact over time it seems your interpretation is more likely than I thought)
I just don't think we can know for sure that's what happened/use it as a trust tell (especially since "oh he wouldn't want to break the rules, therefore trust tell" would also be breaking the rules)

Earlier this game I did think he was town pretty hard from catching up and reading his ISO but his softclaim was scummy as was the way he subtly took BuJ's advice to scumread you

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:29 am

eh I think I probably still believe both claims, despite the "convenience" of the bg claim
My PoE is at {enigma, BuJ, Performer} and the only confusing thing there is that it seems enigma and BuJaber have the same PoE's as me....

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:45 am

@skitter you've already said this game the only modifier you'd take is daytalk..?

What will this town do re:Alonzo's slot if ruru dies tonight and then Alonzo lives to mylo? Just trying to think how believable I think his claim is, especially since only two players claimed after him (few enough that even if both ruru and skitter were PRs it would sound reasonable for him to also be a PR)
Oh wait I see the hole in this logic already... Scum!Alonzo knew only one of them would claim PR but not what they'd claim, and definitely not that one of them would claim BG, so claiming roleblocker was pretty risky there if scum

Still, though, the question remains: what will happen if Alonzo is alive in mylo? I don't want to let him coast there off this claim.

pedit: lol skitter I guess that sort of answers my original question

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:48 am

In post 2752, Irrelephant11 wrote:I don't want to let him coast there off this claim.

eh maybe I do

ruru's claim is definitely fishier if she's alive to mylo - scum!her knew there was no BG and she could claim it

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 am

Wow what
there's so much in that post that doesn't make sense to me

-Ruru should 100% protect Alonzo, Alonzo death would then scumfirm ruru and Alonzo's the only useful PR here (in addition to the fact his claim is much more believable than ruru's)
-Enigma isn't cleared at all? He could be traitor or there could be three groupscum
-Agreed that enigma's ISO has some suspicious parts but I'd love to see you elaborate on that especially given this post

In post 2613, Performer wrote:pgs 102-103 make me tr enigma. The summary and reads provided, also help my read. But why was tw tunneling you?

Why ruru, do you sr enigma? Thanks for also providing a summary.
And you mentioned skiitter inno on you? As in...she claimed investigative, checked you, and said you were clear? Need to be sure what you're saying - if so, then you should be town.

town block so far: enigma.
reevaluating alonzo since he didn't go into why he has me & ruru as scum.

regarding skitter's question about my meta with alonzo - I played 2 games where he was town. He did alright. One of those newbie games I was a scum IC, they were lucky with a quick hammer type of player in their town ranks, and my partner and his replace in didn't do too well....anyway, I'm probably not that reliable in reading alonzo. His playstyle isn't exactly easy to read, and I would need to see more from him than many of his bare posts. I get that he has a family and probably phone posts a lot, but bare posting constantly is scummy.

Please do tell what "isn't right here"

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:33 am

also I'm just now realizing you're trying to call enigma locktown and your scummiest read in the same post??
I'm just actually really confused, tell me more

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:42 am

Why does that preclude Performer being traitor?

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:45 am

In post 2764, Performer wrote:On a related note, I have a bad feeling about buj , as in I don't think he's scum here.Him voting enigma after I posted my case on enigma, actually makes sense from a town perspective because enigma pushed for buj AND my death, and I absolutely am town here. So buj's vote on enig makes sense as a town process.

In post 2766, Performer wrote:Regarding ruru & alonzo, basically my idea is ruru doesn't bg anybody and alonzo works with us to do an agreed roleblock on a coordinated target. I want to hear thoughts from ruru, alonzo, everyone else about this. I think this is the safest route because I myself am suspicious of 1 or both of them end up somehow getting to lylo.

this is scum right

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:48 am

But like
If he's traitor
Then fhpov it's just

true

that enigma getting roleblocked means enigma is conftown

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 am

To not be rude and ignore the player I'm scumreading...
@performer I don't think we need to leash Alonzo but he should definitely tell us his targets in advance
But for that to work ruru 100% needs to BG him

pedit: Performer are you scumreading Alonzo for changing his reads? If there's more to it than that please explain

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:56 am

I think you're being overly gracious and assuming Performer would do/think the same as you
Based on his play so far I don't think you should make that assumption

But whatever we're arguing about whether his scumslip is groupscum or traitorscum do you townread his play at all or

Irrelephant11 · Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:01 am

........

I just lost ~1/2 my scumread after that post

though I think you actually just made a case for why it makes sense that Alonzo would roleblock enigma - it's someone he was scumreading, right? And then he dropped that scumread this game day when the roleblock failed? I'll go back and check if this is true but I'm pretty sure it is

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:05 am

In post 2804, BuJaber wrote:I don't like phantismo's progression on my slot. Like you had a lot invested in sorting tw/ruru but then you started to really commit yourself to this idea of me triggering tw's change of attitude and using that to connect me to him and scumread me for it..

Even if that were true and me saying that flipped switch in his head I don't see how it conmects me to him. If you go ahead and lynch me and I flip town how would you read performer?

Like this case compared to your gamma town case is less clearly thought out and presented rather poorly and it feels lile you just want to lynch me for the hell of it when there is a perfectly good case on enigma that you yourself have also brought up.

Almost glossed over this because "lol who's phantismo"
I've had you as a scumread since the beginning of the day, so I think this is pretty misreppy
While I think ruru/tw have had interesting interactions and both of them are tied in certain ways to other players I scumread (you and enigma), you've always been near the bottom of my PoE. I scumcased you to see if that read made sense and it did. I don't scumread you

because

I think tw/you had scummy-looking interactions, but I definitely wanted to point those out for if either of you flipped red any time soon
On the other hand I think if you're town you're probably right about enigma... I just don't see my townreads lynching enigma this game day, so

If you flip town Performer looks a little townier, simply be virtue of being confusing to pair with most of the rest of the playerlist
I definitely don't want to lynch you "for the hell of it", but I'll concede that my scumcase on you is not as strong as my (too late) towncase on Gamma. I don't see why that means I shouldn't lynch you, though, since I don't really have a stronger scumread (enigma is around the same level of scummy as you fmpov) and your scumread of enigma kind of seems overblown in the way you're attacking me for.

If you're town and I'm town I'm curious what viable scumteams remain fypov

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:07 am

Or don't even talk teams necessarily just how likely do you think it is that enigma is scum and that performer is scum because I haven't figured out what to do with you/me/enigma/Performer having each other in our sights - kind of feels scum would do better at setting up three mislynches, not just two
I'd like to hear you reckon with that

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:07 am

In post 2810, Korina wrote:So do you think Preformer is traitor then Irrel?

I thought tw was. I'm not as sure about Performer

In post 2810, Korina wrote:Also, why would Preformer SR Alonzo for changing his reads?

Idk but that's what it seemed like at the time

Korina what do you think about the fact that Performer's wiki says he fakes confusion as scum to look towny?

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:56 am

Korina is never in your lynchpool, skitter?

@korina I just find it interesting you're reading Performer as "confused town" when it seems that is his scum meta. It definitely might have changed but I'm surprised it didn't give you pause

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:38 am

I don't really see why that's so risky? If he's shot he's just confirmed to his groupscum partner
If he's not shot (which I don't think he would be because he's posted so much & we've talked so much about his potential traitor status I'm pretty sure his partner knows who he is) then he gets away with a PR claim later which is completely within his scum meta

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:38 am

what are the odds buj is gonna claim pr next gameday

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:58 am

I guess that's true, but like I said I don't think he'd get shot

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:24 am

In post 2847, ruru wrote:but anyway it makes the softclaim less pro-scum than it otherwise might beI would also consider that traitor wouldn't know how many prs there are, and it probably? only stops him from getting lynched if scum picked 0 mods

these are really good points

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:49 am

@skitter what part of it aren't you following? Or how can I help..?
A quick summary I think would be
ruru: the worst's soft PR claim is less scummy in retrospect given how much information he wouldn't have had as traitor, making it riskier to do something like that as traitor
me: I don't think it's as risky as you say it is, but this is at least somewhat true

Spoiler: let me know if this series of posts doesn't answer your question about the BuJ thing

Irrelephant11 · Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:56 am

@skitter maybe I should have said “what are the odds BuJ PR claims at L-1?”
Probably not very high either way so meh

Agreed that Enigma might be scum, but proooobably not with Enigma based on how oddly and regularly she’s defending him? At least based on the fact that she’s apparently great at scum

@anyone who has me in their scum pile (skitter, BuJ, idk who else) can you please summarize the case? Even if it’s on my preds, I’d like to know what about their play was scummy

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:38 am

In post 2901, ruru wrote:hmm

dead players' scumpools:

a50: {irrel, maybe alonzo, not bujaber, 99% not performer}
gamma: {performer, maybe enigma, not bujaber}
creature: {irrel, maybe alonzo, not performer, probably not enigma, maybe me lol}

this is probably an argument in favor of
cfding irrel

it's also probably worth noting that I think the only player who had a real scumread on hws d1 was me, and a50 and creature just had hws in their poe for lack of content

alonzo is very probably town for that and other reasons so if town are in {irrel, bujaber} then I think it's between performer / enigma

based on what I've seen of bujaber's meta he has a decently systematic approach and I find it hard to believe he's going on about prs faking vt and just voting alonzo's inno and whatever as town

What is cfding?
Also I'm glad gamesolve ruru has come at the end of this game day to make a lot of sense

In post 2902, ruru wrote:I don't know how to evaluate:

- performer voting alonzo's inno here
- performer suggesting alonzo telegraph his target tonight (I would hard sr myself for that suggestion and it could be scum trying to set up a fake guilty tomorrow and then mislynching alonzo or something but he's not me so I don't know)
- performer otherwise mostly playing his town meta and I also townread his postcount and his wildly fluctuating reads
- whatever chance of tw siteflaking based on nai things (mafia the game is generically too stressful / taking too much time / distracting him from work / etc.) or it being an incredibly dishonorable tactical replace
- me hard sring skygazer+tw other than that

but overall I get the sense that performer isn't an incredibly dangerous scum player and that he's really probably just town and maybe enigma is scum before performer is if we flip a groupscum

enigma still doesn't feel at all like scum and feels very much like designated mislynch, I have a decently good reason to believe his irl business is genuine/nai

I really think it's just bujaber+irrel

Great let's lynch BuJaber and then if he flips green probably flip me (and then when I flip green lynch Performer/Alonzo (depending on if Alonzo's alive and his night results)); if BuJ flips red, flip Performer/Korina (Korina only because I find the idea that BuJ would include Performer in his PoE this game day slightly non-partner-indicative and his read on Korina is mostly meta that the rest of us can't latch onto in a solid way - but maybe it's still just Performer)
Time is running out, this is a good plan, and if BuJ flips green I won't even fight my lynch because my pred's have apparently made my slot irredeemably scummy to the point where I can put in more work than some of the players who have been here since D1 and still get scumread so I'll help solve the game next gameday and then die if necessary

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:46 am

Eh I think you're reducing my posts on the subject to less than they are
I think associatives are different in this game because of the possibility of a traitor, and traitor has to signal to their partner who they are
A way to do that is a certain kind of defending that tw did for BuJ and you have done for enigma - note that I no longer feel it's you/enigma, though, based on your claim
If there's groupscum I agree the associatives are probably more nuanced

This is probably my most frustrating town game that I've played in terms of getting townread to the extent I feel I deserve but I digress
I asked for people's reads on my preds because I can't believe they were so scummy that I can never be townread because "well, preds"
But if that's the case just flip me before lylo I'm probably just in the way at this point regardless of how helpful I personally feel I can be

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:00 am

In post 2879, skitter30 wrote:i think ejji's vote on nm was a bussing vote; like he was trying to get on wagon
frank was bad; look at 646 and read the next few pages to get a feel for why i didn't like him

1 - Fine
2 - I just read this and W T F???????
I'm actually angry that the argument between Frank/Vex is actually enough for a lasting scumread for you????
Like your main point there was "anti-mindmeld" which was like the actual definition of us in American Presidents and I know Frank isn't me but I think it's been proven you put too much stock into "people who think like me and people who don't" because in most games there's ~2-3 town perspectives going on at once, on average, and scum try to keep it that way

Actually just based on the way your reads tend to be in most games I've seen with town!you
{town, town, scum}
{town, town}
{town, town, town}
{town, scum}
{town, town, scum}
I'm tempted to say I'm actually right on Korina because I agree with Frank in retrospect that that push on him was C R A P
I've literally done the thing he's done where "dangit my post is gone I've lost a lot of motivation" and Vex was super stuck on him for that and -

whatever, let me stop there. Take all this with a grain of salt because it's mostly being written by angry!me given this scumread on me now feels baseless
Or not baseless but like it feels like "eh I had a slight scumlean on that player so I can never townread you" which is dumb
I wish I had a PR because replacing in would have been much more fun here

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:01 am

Let's lynch BuJ now, lynch me if he flips green because I'll have lost a lot of my motivation anyway

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:02 am

And if you feel like lynching me if he flips red I might not fight that either honestly
If y'all will be stuck on my preds being "scummy" forever I'm apparently a lyability

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:13 am

In post 2921, Enigma wrote:If BuJ flips red
Elephant > Performer in that order

?
Is this based on my posts this page or something else?

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:20 am

But I started this game day pushing you and only when it seemed like that wouldn't work (+ PR claims) I pushed for BuJ?

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:42 am

Because everyone keeps pairing me with the players I want lynched? idk I just feel like I'm working hard to win this for town and it's just getting me scumread because scum!me is apparently a god
Like scum!me doesn't do that 180 on tw when he softclaims PR
scum!me probably doesn't townread tw in the first place
Also "effort isn't ai" is so frustrating
Like I have one completed scumgame and people townread me for "effort" but it was my first newbie and I knew how to act like a tryhard-town-newb, which doesn't apply anymore.
Whatever I guess my meta is just catching up with me and I have to lose as scum once or twice before I can complain

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:58 am

In post 2930, ruru wrote:but I am kind of scumreading that you (initially) didn't want to re-eval after the replace and I think that's somewhat indicative of scum you + town him

I'm this close to rage quitting
I've never replaced out but everyone is under my skin this game
This is stupid

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:19 am

then vote me

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:24 am

if everyone insists on using literal utter crap (Frank's post got deleted and he argued about it for a minute? Not seeing things exactly the same way for a page? My view of the worst's rep out that I can't talk about but have conceded is more towny than scummy? None of these are real reasons) to scumread me because anything towny I ever do is something I could do as scum then lynch me today
I don't care if this is AtE I'd rather my slot be sorted now than be the game losing lylo lynch

or

Do some work to actually sort me before the next flip

Thanks,
Your angry neighborhood elephant

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 am

Not about to rep out because I think it would maybe be unethical

I don't know why this is making me so angry, honestly
Just doesn't feel fair that I'm in everyone's bottom reads without anyone making a scumcase or pointing out scum agenda in any of the things I do
Sorry for somewhat derailing the game I hate when other people get tilted in a way that's game ruin-y

Let's lynch BuJ and then if I'm the next lynch I'm the next lynch, whatever. 20 hours left in this game day

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:46 am

Okay

I won't be mad after the game is over fwiw, I don't hold onto game stuff like that; it's obviously not personal
Yes I would like to hear more about the read then, though

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:57 am

In post 2942, ruru wrote:
In post 2935, Irrelephant11 wrote:I don't care if this is AtE I'd rather my slot be sorted now than be the game losing lylo lynch
the game is likely poe'd if bujaber flips scum (and the order of lynches matters because of alonzo's ability to generate innos) so this suggestion is kind of ridiculous if you actually believe bujaber is scum

???
I wasn't thinking about that part in the moment I wrote this
But this kinda reads as setting me up for tomorrow's lynch if BuJ flips green?
Like why would

you

say

that

if you think BuJaber is scum? Like if you think we're partners doesn't that negate this thought? This is actually just confusing

@whoever said it please don't townread me for "unethical", that also feels unethical. Just read my play, please and thanks.

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:21 am

Oh, yes. I agree I am not being rational town rn

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:25 am

People have lined me up as the next lynch regardless of BuJ's flip so my only point was that if it is ever helpful to flip me I would not stop it and would even prefer it
I was not thinking about PRs' ability to gamesolve, just the fact that I don't want to either *be here* or *replace out*

I should probably get over myself though because at this rate I am going way down in nightkill equity and then when I resist my lynch tomorrow I'll look scummy

So I promise that if I'm here tomorrow I'll be super reasonable again

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:37 am

UNVOTE:
I'm sorry this is probably a bad choice but I'm townreading that post

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:41 am

ehh I'll probably re-vote him soon
ruru this is probably your last day phase? Any thing you want to add before the phase ends?

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:46 am

ruru I can't tell if that is your last words or you making fun of me

So I guess I'm still wondering if you have anything to add since you're either tonight's kill or idk scum are in this for the WIFOM I guess?

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:48 am

I'm scumreading Performer more than I am BuJaber
But ehhh it's probably a bad idea to move a wagon this late in the game day?

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:48 am

Yes it's a bad idea
okay
VOTE: BuJaber

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:51 am

In post 2966, BuJaber wrote:I know my writing is not the best but how could you possibly understand my post that way?

yeah this question is extremely fair

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:39 am

VOTE: Performer
I've detailed why I think tw/sky make sense as the traitor to BuJ's groupscum, & Performer is literally playing to his scum meta imo
If anyone needs more explanation lmk but it feels really obvious, which is why I had so much paranoia last game day but now that BuJ has flipped red I think I was just right
If you're going to vote for me please explain the scumcase in detail thank u <3

Also why are we only considering daytalk/recruit as the one mod? I would want daytalk if I liked my scum partner but otherwise I'd probably take rolecop tbh

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:39 am

Oh two goons have flipped I'm dumb ignore me

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:58 am

Just to make sure it's said, ruru can mechanically be the traitor here, and we shouldn't forget that.

We're just waiting on Alonzo at this point I'm guessing?

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:35 am

Potentially enigma (would make me feel better about scumreading enigma on replace-in), or also potentially ruru if I'm somehow wrong on both of you
Korina is not, like, cleared? And I haven't done enough re-reading to see if I think he was scummy around the BuJ flip. But for now Korina is not really in the lynchpool for me

I'll do a deep dive to clear up my reads soon but I'm overgamed and I just really feel like it's you

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:49 am

@Mod: What happens in an endless loop of no-lynch, no-kill?

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:21 am

In post 3016, ruru wrote:unfortunately happily ever after is good for scum so we won't get anywhere with nolynching

Do you see this in the rules? Some setups have this cycle result in a town win, I'm not seeing anything about it in the rules for this game

In post 3017, skitter30 wrote:
In post 3003, Enigma wrote:Now these were the two slots that got to decide on the mods, keeping in mind that they do/did not know who the traitor is/was pregame.
Why would they give scum PR mods to the traitor rather than themselves? BP/JOAT/RC is useless for traitor as a single mod
.
we technically could have lynched a recruited traitor; they flip as mafia goon

i think the bolded is lowkey a townslip because he doesn't seem to know how giving out mods work (ie who gets the mods amongst goons is randomized; scum don't get to choose)

==

In post 3006, Irrelephant11 wrote:I've detailed why I think tw/sky make sense as the traitor to BuJ's groupscum, & Performer is literally playing to his scum meta imo
a couple of things:

a) one thing that i find lowkey scummy is that i kinda feel like all day yesterday you were building tw/bujaber upon a bujaber redflip

b) can you elaborate on performer's scum meta? when ruru pulled that quote from his wiki i was like ... that doesn't describe his behavior here at all

i'm going to explain the frank scumread in a bit more detail now in a new post, but another thing that i think is kinda scummy that you did was unvoting bujaber a little bit before deadline and asking for other possible lynches

a) okay but this is only scummy if I'm wrong

b) sure, in another post

c) That's fair, and in retrospect that actually makes a lot of sense, but I honestly did townread that post from BuJ, because h was giving advice for after his flip, which seemed townier than, say, a last second push for a mislynch. I don't remember calling for another lynch though? Like I said I preferred Performer but I didn't actually call out to anyone to change their votes and I turned it back toward BuJ pretty fast. idk this is wifomy for me to talk about I feel so I'll leave it to you to figure out

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:44 am

In post 3025, Performer wrote:The problem with this is if alonzo switches to another person & suddenly there’s an nk, then people will think I did the kill.

I'm still writing my case post on Performer, but I think this probably seals the deal
Alonzo hadn't said he targeted Performer

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:47 am

In post 2987, Alonzo wrote:
In post 2985, Performer wrote:Alonzo - who did you target?
Who did you target?

I guess he implied it, but I read this as a wifom-y "ooh what will scum do if I imply I mayyybe blocked Performer?" so Performer's above post is extremely TMI I feel

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:48 am

dangit I shouldn't have posted 3028

Irrelephant11 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:47 am

If you can prove mechanically that town always wins this with me dead, and if you'll hear me out on Performer before I go, I'm still fine with that.

I have a long draft regarding Performer but I have to go afk so I'll post it & more tomorrow

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:46 am

yes hello
@game

I'm not scum so if you're just settled on me at least do some work to sort for tomorrow's lynch. I would've shot last night, btw. There were good odds I'd be targeted based on what people told Alonzo to do, so what would be the point in holstering?

Anyway, performer slot case incoming

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:27 am

To start, I'll answer skitter's question about Performer vs. his scum meta
pedit: if performer's 3037 isn't a "huh what???? I'm so confused???" meta then idk what is
Early on, my exact read of Performer's catch up was "none of these questions make sense, they're all weird, and I think he's just faking confusion". This was before ruru mentioned his scum meta, and it's obviously something ruru also saw or she wouldn't have brought in that quote from his wiki. Some examples:

Spoiler:

In post 2613, Performer wrote:pgs 102-103 make me tr enigma. The summary and reads provided, also help my read.
But why was tw tunneling you?

Why ruru, do you sr enigma? Thanks for also providing a summary.

And you mentioned skiitter inno on you? As in...she claimed investigative, checked you, and said you were clear? Need to be sure what you're saying - if so, then you should be town.

town block so far: enigma.

reevaluating alonzo since he didn't go into why he has me & ruru as scum.

regarding skitter's question about my meta with alonzo - I played 2 games where he was town. He did alright. One of those newbie games I was a scum IC, they were lucky with a quick hammer type of player in their town ranks, and my partner and his replace in didn't do too well....anyway,
I'm probably not that reliable in reading alonzo.
His playstyle isn't exactly easy to read, and I would need to see more from him than many of his bare posts. I get that he has a family and probably phone posts a lot, but
bare posting constantly is scummy.

Bolded things that just kinda go nowhere, like there's a lot of questions and thoughts that Performer never actually uses, except to look confused/like he's sorting. He also contradicts his "to do: sort Alonzo" thing from a previous post by saying he's not reliable at reading him, and he "townblocks" enigma who later becomes his preferred wagon

In post 2615, Performer wrote:
In post 2582, Irrelephant11 wrote:@skitter I actually agree about partner-reading, so my bad
It just so happens that potential-traitor-Tw really hinted that he was Buj’s partner, and he also followed BuJ’s in-thread advice
Huh? Tw hinted that he was bujaber's partner??
This is simply suspect as I have a town role from the moderator.
In post 2591, BuJaber wrote:I'd much rather have PRs living one more night so I'm strongly favoring no massclaim no lynch
yes I am of this thought as well, in this situation.
adding bujaber to town block.
sadly, the claiming has started already.
I really don't think no lynch is a good way to go. Have yet to see a good reason so I can't agree with no lynch.
In post 2592, ruru wrote:just claim please.

I vote bujaber > irrel > enigma > alonzo > korina > skitter
buj's previous post & this post of ruru's , makes me more suspicious of ruru.
I still think it's fishy that ruru tunneled tw for 100 pgs and and thinks tw is town, while tw thought ruru wasn't.

-Says I'm "suspect" for scumreading him as a pair with BuJaber, while simultaneously implying he doesn't know the context/didn't read all my posts
-Wasn't looking for this originally, but "adding BuJaber to townblock" in one of his first posts isn't a good look post-BuJ flip
-Has clearly caught up enough to know that ruru/tw had a 100 page spat, but skips over ruru's reasoning for ultimately townreading tw (the rep out)

In post 2616, Performer wrote:Buj - if we have majority do a no lynch, what if scum target a pr, then we'll be back to square 1. I like that he suggested I read at least the earlier part of d3, which I should get to...ugh...this is partly why I wanted to replace in with a hydra because I am somewhat time crunched, and the hydra would help a more in this situation.

continued fos: Alonzo for naked claiming ruru & I as scum team.

I'm surprised people took Alonzo so seriously re: ruru/tw scum team. I read his post as a tinfoil theory that he was projecting confidence onto to for reactions
But anyway, he "liked" BuJ for suggesting he read EOD3. That's just not a read, like what?

In post 2642, Performer wrote:
In post 2631, Alonzo wrote:
In post 1749, ruru wrote:VOTE: Alonzo

In post 1763, ruru wrote:okay, so

the worst is not happening because skitter is waffling

let's try this

anyone not naked voting alonzo with me can be scum with alonzo.

In post 1766, ruru wrote:I have solved the game

three scums in {alonzo, gamma, bujaber}

In post 1773, ruru wrote:Just vote alonzo
ruru d2
Thanks for elaborating on ruru. I am understanding better, of why tw voted ruru . This also changes me read on alonzo.

If anyone understands how performer reads Alonzo here and then thinks "oh yes, this is the answer to my question about Alonzo team-reading tw/ruru, thank you", let me know. I sure don't.

In post 2646, Performer wrote:ok what is all this usage of hypo mean...does it stand for hypothetical?
and who is phantismo?

Like maybe these questions are real questions but it's just this pattern of repetitive posts of wide-eyed bewilderment, that was his whole catch up.

In post 2677, Performer wrote:
Ok some things:
alonzo why did you choose a50 & enigma to block? especially a50 of all people?

skitter what do you mean blocking a50 matches with d2 big scumread?

I see what irrel & skitter meant now. Vex's 600s look really good . Combined with his d3 perpetual catchup and other posts though, I would have to null him.

irrel I can go bujaber or ruru , but I also want to see what skitter & ruru say as they're the last ones. I need to reread my ISO for what I said about enigma.

Underlined is like the first thing Performer posted where I was like "yes, reasonable, I get it"
Bolded is more ott confusion

In post 2688, Performer wrote:
In post 2686, Alonzo wrote:thats quite a narrow view of the situation. I was trying to give TW some space as I do not Town!read TW easily.

Around page 95 I said I was going to Re read, by the time i got to the RR there was a huge show and TW suddenly subbed out and the game was another 10 pages to read.

rurur really seemed to believe her SR of TW then went cold on it. The whole thing seemed unnecessary.

Not knowing TW's alts I was surprised in the break of character that followed, he broke the 4th dimension if you will and still not sure how to read it.
But If your ISO is not what your scum meta is like, then I don't see why ruru lined up Korina>skitter>ruru in some sort of meta comparison of people who weren't playing to their meta.

Why would you object an enigma wagon??

----------
@alonzo: interesting. I've seen tw's town meta consistently show he gets irate when things don't go his way, but that's about as "4th dimension" as I can see regarding tw. As for alts, I'm not aware of what alts he has...though I don't how that would matter.

I still think it's very scummy that ruru claimed to have been in sorting tw for 90+ pgs and when I replaced in , she suddenly put me as tr. Despite that, a re-ISO of her & checking ISOs of others after some time has gone by this phase - ruru is hardly the scummiest .

--------

I'm starting to wonder if the remaining scum are a certain pair in here.

- "Why are you being consistent with all the posts you've posted???"
- "I refuse to try to understand ruru's reasoning for changing her read on my slot. However, I also see she's not very mislynchable"
- "~mysterious game solve~"

In post 2716, Performer wrote:Isn't there 1 more person who didn't claim?

I seriously don't like that answer from ruru, looks very suspicious.
Bg role is created to protect others, especially prs.

I think this is literally the first time I've ever seen this kind of reasoning and really , really don't like it. I mean, who says they don't want to protect Alonzo at this point with the mass claiming going around?
That's the only answer they should give at this point .
At the same time - if she fake claimed, that is next to suicide for scum to do. On top of that, this is basically suicide from what ruru is saying if she is scum...so I'm inclined to think she can't be scum saying such things.

Also why did Creature of all people, claim his IC role on d1 in post 5?? What the!?
This G A I M is messed up.

Anyway, trying to think if it makes sense with 12 - goon, traitor, another scum role, IC, town rb, town bg. Considering the setup features, it actually sounds plausible .

This all just reads as "wow things are happening????????? Confusing!"
I'll stop here with the examples for this particular question.

Next, I'll show again why tw and BuJ's ISOs are obv!partners (idk if anyone else has done this, but it's actually so insanely obvious that I have to assume none of you have. If anything, my only paranoia here is that it's too obvious, though the fact that BuJ flipped red has removed a lot of that paranoia)

pedit2:

In post 3038, Performer wrote:Thing is, I would've shot last night too if I was scum.

yes, you would have, and you got blocked
lol

I'd be interested to hear you talk more about korina

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:46 am

Spoiler: antihero had a lot to say in defense of sky's traitor claim

In post 129, Antihero wrote:
In post 101, Enigma wrote:
In post 97, Antihero wrote:i like ruru's entrance
Explain?

also ....
pedit: sigh
she kind of goes against the grain of the thread so far by criticizing the PR spec and my train of thought on the matter is sort of similar (in that i think scum have an incentive to talk UP the number of PRs than the amount they really gave here so it gives them more wiggle room come mass claim time)

In post 102, Almost50 wrote:Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,
my case on Sky is she is the Traitor
ehhhhhhehrehrhehrhhe

i HAVE seen scum "scumread" the IC but that was bc it was either a calculated move for towncred ("oh LOLZ looks at the TOWNSLIPS, see scum would be paying more attention") or an honest mistake. sky's isn't doing either. she's trolling.

and this post^ is reachy even for page 5.

In post 132, Antihero wrote:
In post 127, Almost50 wrote:
In post 124, ruru wrote:Once upon a time, a50 and I played a game where he (as town) scumread the outed IC
because he wasn't reading the game
Well, the underlined makes a hell of a difference, doesn't it? What I'm saying is you don't
joke
about lynching the IC as town when you're
totally aware
they have been confirmed as the IC, and that it almost always comes from scum who think it's one way to appear "too scummy to be scum".
i mean....... i don't think sky (or anyone with a mental capacity exceeding a dog turd's) seriously thinks trolling is going to get them townread

In post 248, Antihero wrote:
In post 239, skitter30 wrote:what don't you like about a50? i'm pretty sure he's town here tbh
>my gut rxn from his "omg i'm this eccentric and random wizard from the moon, isn't that cute?" shtick is that it's overwrought for the purpose of showmanship given i haven't seen any flashes of it that feel... natural...? idk what the word is
>the whole initial angle on skygazer felt like pointing out things that are antitown (hypoclaim traitor and call to lynch the IC) but don't really even have superficially apparent scum motivation

and add
>he's using "lol POE" and the IC's reads to very conveniently vote park me (so everyone knows his reasons are pure... and he with those reasons he gets to avoid engaging w me BONUS)

your use of "here" makes me think part of this is meta so if ur going to do that, plz link one recent scum and town game tia

Spoiler: probably ignore this, it's only interesting if you assume I'm right as a starting point

In post 844, the worst wrote:totally thought a50's super super super early posting about traitor was
traitor indicative which would put his team at antihero/FraJa
but eeehhh I think he's just town or groupscum, his reads feel like actual reads

defs leaning town there atm

for a minute I thought FraJa was the NM slot but it's me so RIP

In post 845, the worst wrote:VOTE: ceejayvinoya
if I'm wrong on this blow my mind,
friend

In post 848, the worst wrote:FOS Buj as well but despite being a
friend
I don't have as strong a feel for his scumgame

skitter is pinging town on second impressions but I will only have a good read on her when I read the game chronologically T_T

Calls both flipped goons "friend" in two consecutive posts. Pretty subtle traitor callout

In post 978, the worst wrote:Not sure how long Buj has been voting for A50 though. Antihero's A50 reaction/case struck me as pretty towny.

And so begins a lot of "ehhh BuJ is just town because because" that tw reiterates whenever asked

In post 984, the worst wrote:Frank early posting is p sketchy
He's casing lynches not casing alignments

biggest ping: he states very few townreads then proceeds to more or less ignore them. feels more like he's tryna trip up his scumreads

this is half playstyle pingy stuff tho I kinda wanna see content from him that isn't crap before I have a stronger read his take on A50's setup spec and read on antihero + sheeping him onto the wagon is kinda slightly more likely to come from town I think

either way if I had to pick I'd still call Buj slot town / FraJa scum before I'd call the other way around or s/s. there's probably 1-2 town in here.

In post 1041, the worst wrote:
In post 848, the worst wrote:FOS Buj as well but despite being a friend I don't have as strong a feel for his scumgame

skitter is pinging town on second impressions but I will only have a good read on her when I read the game chronologically T_T

In post 851, the worst wrote:oops I hard townread Antihero's early ISO
Read tentatively redacted

@Gamma I'm not feeling the Buj thing much anymore

want me to like go and try to work out what was going through my mind or

I don't want to

In post 1111, BuJaber wrote:-readslist snip-
Town reads:

Sky - start was overly jokey in a way that's very in-your-face. Seems like something that only comes from relaxed town. 89 made me laugh. 452 good town list for this point in the game. I hate 595. Big post from Vex about sky is quite convincing. It still feels weird that she's being so obvscum. TW's entrance seems pretty good though. Coupled with the too scummy to be scum thing I say this is likely to be a townslot.

Scum reads: -snip-

In post 1125, the worst wrote:actually Buj do you reckon you could tier your reads for me? (even loosely is fine)

In post 1126, BuJaber wrote:I guess something along these lines:

{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}

given cjv's spot, tw looks like the other partner imo

In post 1127, the worst wrote:alright I can dig it.

"look at us we're interacting"

In post 1316, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1313, ejjinami wrote:
In post 1311, BuJaber wrote:I wouldn't be so sure. I've played with scum!TW once and he won the game by being kinda vague and sheepy with his reads. He felt like a confused little innocent duckling all game and got himelf townlocked brilliantly. It probably involved a lot of bussing his partners but it was worth it in the end.
can you link the game?
and what is your read on him rn?
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=75184

A weak town read based slightly on his tone
but mainly on me just not seeing how skygazer could be scum and be so obvious about it.

BuJ "uhhhh town I guess"s tw too

In post 1398, the worst wrote:
In post 1396, ejjinami wrote:
In post 1392, the worst wrote:which slots am I lacking progression on
hey, if you TR absolutely everyone, it'll mean that the vast majority of your reads is correct :thumbs up:

and elaborate on buj please
ctrl+f antihero and Buj in my iso please if you don't mind, that's one of the slots I'm not lacking thoughts on its just a quiet one

Unable to elaborate, points back to his (pretty blank in this respect) ISO for his BuJ read

In post 1406, the worst wrote:
your SR of Antihero was just the stick in butt tone realistically right
like you can see his posting coming from town reaction to your posting surely

In post 1455, BuJaber wrote:
Creature why are you voting TW?

In post 1529, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1520, ruru wrote:okay whatever I'm afk for the night

I'm not sure if what tw did is really the towntell I think it is, also the evasiveness is fairly pl-worthy

nm seems to be playing his scum meta so far

{skitter, a50 (skitter)} - this is an actual hard tr based on her being out of her scum meta and not a day 1 "oh skitter's presence in this game is +ev" type of thing, I really mean it this time
{vex} - assuming the self-meta is accurate
{a50, enigma}
{gamma}
{ejji}
{bujaber, hws, nm, tw (a50)}
{tw, nm (a50/tw)}

I'm trying out a new readslist format so people can see both my personal reads and aggregate reads in case I'm shot and the people I was sheeping flip red; it should be pretty self-explanatory

You think tw/nm are partners?

In post 1598, the worst wrote:
In post 1587, ruru wrote:I think tw's play has been results-oriented in a tmi way: he expects to deliver us a redflip and then not die as a result, without really scumhunting or doing anything else towny
ok so you literally witnessed what happened the last time I tried to bus so please tell me you actually think I

*clears throat*

> rep'd into a scumslot
> decided to expose scum!cjv for towncred (?) when he'd just been dropped into his usual "too hard to read" bin
> cjv then spewed antiassociatives and then flaked from the game because.....?? he didn't like my bus strategy? waht
> I suddenly got really really good at bussing and changed my bussing ethos dramatically

like this conclusion is so vague and has nearly no thought behind it. I'd feel better if you jumped into the thread with a fucking fake guilty. seriously. stop tunnelling me and pay attention to the fact cjv and I were obviously not scum together.

actually fuck it this could be scum. will revisit later

hypo inno Bujaber

In post 1655, BuJaber wrote:Tw - do you have a scum game where you posted a lot? I only have the one scumgame to go on and d1 you sort of played to that meta but d2 it's different. Like you're arguing more than I would expect but some of the things you're saying are just so weird.

I find it weird that ruru is able to push tw for bussing cjv which seems rather reachy
. Like I don't think tw is obvtown here by any means, but I don't think the way he pushed cjv was scum-indicative. It only makes sense if you go into it thinking 'what would tw do if he repped into a scum slot' it doesn't feel like the correct order of thoughts. Unless ruru genuinenly looks at that and says oh that looks like bussing. If someone other than tw did the same thing would you also think they're bussing ruru? At least then I could understand. Just feels like an awkward attempt at bussing and if he is as good at it as you say I'd expect a smoother attempt.
Also coming from the same person the gamma tr is weird. You are prone to believing that scum!tw had this elaborate bussing strategy, but don't believe scum!gamma could fake forget his partner? Particularly someone who flaked from the site and wasn't talking much he's easily forgettable for real even.

Enigma seems like he's pushing an agenda/creating nk wifom and he continues to post rvs'y posts like 'first' which is just like... why man? A50 did TR him though. I also still think gamma's play is more in line with his scum meta.
I hypo inno alonzo

I need help sorting tw/ruru
, vex/skitter still town, alonzo is town, scum pool for today is {ejj, enigma, gamma}

VOTE: gamma

So many words that say "I don't townread tw but you shouldn't scumread him"

Spoiler: This whole conversation about tw's meta basically goes nowhere and also "sabotaging myself" reads as traitor confirmation

In post 1660, the worst wrote:
In post 1659, the worst wrote:
In post 1655, BuJaber wrote:Tw - do you have a scum game where you posted a lot? I only have the one scumgame to go on and d1 you sort of played to that meta but d2 it's different. Like you're arguing more than I would expect but some of the things you're saying are just so weird.
lmao maybe
Try open 733 or earthbound or the newbie game nancy modded or sharing is caring by almost50

going by your question I don't really know what you're looking for? like just high post count as scum? either of those games should be fine, I talk a lot
hold on yeah
try open 733, that might be closer to what you're after I think

In post 1670, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1669, the worst wrote:
In post 1665, Vex Vience wrote:ik nm is just a troll.
that's why im so fine with him getting hung d1.
...especially when he reps into a meta scum slot
hence why we don't leave him to be vigged by a vig that ~may or may not exist~
I'd like to have a mini discussion on this after the game.

I skimmed through your posts in open 733. Looks like there's more to your scum game than what meets the eye.

I think I need to play with you more before I can meta read you.

See in giyga's curse (feels like years ago) you had this air of uncertainty and lack of solid opinions and I would have described you as a shy/passive go-with-the-flow kind of player. A common enough scum technique but also if done well can get away with it undetected. General theme would be 'hiding' from direct attention.

In 733 it seems you were following a more proactive 'point attention elsewhere' technique. Less talking about yourself, more pushing of cases, more asking direct questions that don't require you to give opinions yourself but allow you to divert attention onto the person being asked the question.

In terms of post quantity I'd say this game is closer to 733, but content wise I'm not seing a consistent agenda of avoiding the spotlight here. You're neither hiding nor trying to avoid getting into it with people. But I'm not sensing any real motivation to figuring things out either. It reads like that one tired player in every rl game asking everyone "aren't we done yet?"

In post 1675, the worst wrote:
In post 1670, BuJaber wrote:In terms of post quantity I'd say this game is closer to 733, but content wise I'm not seing a consistent agenda of avoiding the spotlight here. You're neither hiding nor trying to avoid getting into it with people. But I'm not sensing any real motivation to figuring things out either. It reads like that one tired player in every rl game asking everyone "aren't we done yet?"
I've definitely hit a point where I just post more than I used to hahaha. I was kinda starting to get fired up in Earthbound when Mathdino spewed that he meta townread me being uncertain so I seriously hammed up the "maybe I think I don't know" vibes.

I am kinda a tiny bit bored of mafia in a general sense and
I need a break but keep sabotaging myself which prolly aids that "aren't we done yet?"
feeling.. :p

In post 1713, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1712, the worst wrote:it seems like there's a lot of fluffy stuff and I'm getting a kinda self important/lotta clout energy but also like non nuanced 1 dimensional reads but i guess that's pretty consistent with his town meta so *shrugs
This is true but that's more recently.

Like he posted a whole lot and townspewed and got himself townread by pretty much everyone. Then he justifiably kinda started egoposting as a result since roughly the last few pages of day 1 when he was talking about who will get NK'd.

You really think he'd get comfortable enough to do that as scum? Not the impression I got from Forest Fire.

In post 1714, the worst wrote:
In post 1713, BuJaber wrote:You really think he'd get comfortable enough to do that as scum? Not the impression I got from Forest Fire.
> get townread
> start prodging
I feel it

Still think he's more likely just town tbh but that's more of an holistic read than my own

"look at us we're interacting"

In post 1745, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1743, skitter30 wrote:the people i townread are: vex, ruru, enigma, creature

the people i don't are: buj, alonzo, tw, ge, ejji

and three of them are on that wagon
And that makes sense to you?

We know there's a traitor and a groupscum left alive.

You have to ask yourself if both could be on gamma in only 4 votes or if one of them is bussing the other (gamma) in only 4 votes.

If the answer is no to both of those then ejj should either be confirmed scum to you or you know for a fact you are townreading scum.

I have reason to think BuJ's bolded statement here is a real info slip (ask me later if you're curious, I'm moving on)

In post 1790, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1781, the worst wrote:I can't remember why but I have the HotWaterService/Alonzo slot down as pretty town
Only player getting inno'd by two people

So far BuJ/tw have only had completely benign, "huh, yeah, you said it" interactions
Neither gives a strong townread on the other but they never push each other as scum
Lots of hedging their reads of each other

In post 1816, BuJaber wrote:
Sky's? I'm trying to make sense of her actions.

Nothing she did here really aligns with how she played in pyp. I just still don't know how someone who puts that much effort into trying to win (she really stepped up as soon as she felt comfortable ausuka was town, their analysis of setup was really good, and she continued to try and utilize her neighborhoods), can roll scum and switch the attitude around completely.
But maybe A50 was right. Maybe sky really is a traitor who's just going for broke and being obvious about it.

Got any scum meta on sky? Could you see that from her?
Might be easier than trying to sort tw.

In post 1824, ruru wrote:maybe it's just bujaber+tw

here's where things get interesting. Mild, relaxed, logical BuJ sees the above, and...

Spoiler: Notably, while "nullreading" tw, BuJaber continually defends him through this entire argument

In post 1825, BuJaber wrote:Yeah we tried this new strategy where 1 of us flakes out, 1 of us jesters it up then replaces out, and the last one refuses to bus either. Totally plausible

In post 1828, BuJaber wrote:Because that was tw and not me and that was at a time when cjv wasn't an obvious lynch. There were many other optioms to shade.

In post 1833, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1830, ruru wrote:tw apparently isn't an obvious lynch either.
So why are you drawing the parallel between us then?

TW if scum, bussed his not-obviously-getting-lynched partner.

Now you're saying if I'm scum I'm NOT bussing my not-obviously-getting-lynched partner.

In post 1835, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1832, ruru wrote:I think tw is more likely to make endgame right now than ceejay was to make endgame even before tw claimed a guilty
I would agree but if that was the plan behind tw's bussing why wouldn't scum!me join the cjv wagon also?

In post 1836, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1834, ruru wrote:yes, both of those are things that scum do.
So how did you decide it was scummy for tw to do it then?

If both options are things scum would do how do you determine when it's actually AI?

In post 1842, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1838, ruru wrote:
In post 1836, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1834, ruru wrote:yes, both of those are things that scum do.
So how did you decide it was scummy for tw to do it then?

If both options are things scum would do how do you determine when it's actually AI?
I believe I have several posts on this subject
Yes but when I read them earlier I got the impression it was specific to TW. Now that you are presenting it in this way it contradicts that notion. So it's not clear to me anymore why you thought TW was scum if this is a general thing that scum would do in that scenario.

In post 1839, ruru wrote:let's talk about this:

In post 1831, BuJaber wrote:That is more indicative of there being a wagon on scum right now.

If everyone, town and scum alike, are posting very little scum cannot bus and risk a quick hammer from the absent townies. They cannot aggressively push the counterwagon because as soon as a mislynch occurs the other player would be a prime suspect.
so, suppose this implies gamma is scum because your vote is there so I assume you mean him

the counterwagons of tw and alonzo have basically been aggressively solo pushed by me; one of them must be town

do you think scum would be displaying support when I push town?
Not without some town support first. One vote is not a wagon.

In post 1846, BuJaber wrote:Well gamma I think is scum.
Vex and skitter I think are town regardless of how they vote.
Alonzo is hypothetically innocent
That leaves enigma who I still scumread and
tw who's more like null.

Even if I accept that you would scumread two opposite behaviors in the same game, I still don't see how you jumo to me being a teammate of tw.

In post 1916, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1914, the worst wrote:
In post 1913, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1908, skitter30 wrote:if being at l1 would make you more motivated that could definitely be arranged
This line was funny to me. Sounds like it's from a cheesy old mafia movie.

TW: were you reading the game at all before replacing in?
not a word of it!
I like the setup and I ofrhz is teh best so when I saw she needed a replacement I PM'd reflexively.
Right.. so why would town!you here care to read sky's posts at all? Why would town!you feel the need to state that you don't need to townread her? Why would you care about what she was or wasn't thinking? And why would you care what we thought about your predecessor at all?

Nobody should ride on people's townread of their predecessor. Presenting a towncase on a predecessor is stupid as you can't even read them as an informed 3rd party. So why are you stating the obvious?

Only scum would care so they can be consistent with their prdecessor or not blow up associations.

In post 1917, the worst wrote:I totally agree with everything you just posted which is why I produced my own content instead of focusing on my pred.

conversationally ruru picked up it was weird she wasn't more anxious around skitter30. like incidentally this is something I agree with but I also don't think it would be surprising if Skyg played this the same way I would have played it so it's kind of a moot point.

why the hell are we all talking in circles about this? I feel like I'm being read for my pred who made her intentions with this game pretty clear by replacing out. can we focus on the game or

this is maybe the only interesting potentially not-svs interaction these two have up to this point...

In post 2254, BuJaber wrote:
{Tw, enigma, elephant, alonzo}
If I'm not cop that's my scumpool.
This is my scumpool if I'm cop:
{Enigma, elephant}

VOTE: Enigma

skipping ahead because I want to get to:

In post 2356, BuJaber wrote:Why are you so sure ruru's town?

In post 2357, the worst wrote:
In post 2356, BuJaber wrote:Why are you so sure ruru's town?
believe me I haven't given the read out easily

In post 2358, BuJaber wrote:I'm not arguing against the read I want to know your reasons if you please.

Because from my pov he's been given a case for you being scum but not really pushing it and like I expect you to be suspicious of him for that.

about 36 hours (iirc) after this, tw scumreads ruru for the first time all game

VOTE: performer if I'm not already. enigma pretty much has to be town for the same reasons I am regarding night actions + BuJ wanted him dead for most of the game. skitter is just town, leaving only korina or ruru as possible partners. I'll only really consider either of those being the case if performer flips green, until then, game feels solved fmpov. Lynch me -> performer or just lynch performer, up to y'all.

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:55 am

Also I just remembered skitter posted her scumcase on my slot and I'd like to respond to it but besides the exhaustion of writing the above post I need to get off MS for a few hours so idk how likely it is that will happen
Given Performer probably gets lynched after me if I get lynched I'm fine with it

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:57 am

In post 3045, Irrelephant11 wrote:I need to get off MS

lol but also I'm overgamed so I'll be here foreverrrrr

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:58 am

In post 3047, Performer wrote:Maybe tw played with buj in the past so he called him a friend. But yeah, point is obviously
we can go speculate about what anti said about sky, or what tw did and the meaning of his posts,
but I wouldn't know why the two of them played like that. Clearly those 2 have different playstyles.

I mean I'm not asking *you* to *speculate* about your preds, I'm asking everyone else to evaluate your slot.

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:58 am

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:05 am

did you read the case?
when everyone has done that, and if I'm still your scummiest read, quicklynch me I guess
My two towniest reads want me dead; I'm not sure there's something I can do to address that enough; I should probably die

Don't read this as wifom, I think you're all perfectly capable of evaluating it as a strategy: if scum, I should die. If town, and you're never going to think obvscum is scum until I die, I should die. Yes?

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:19 pm

In post 3056, ruru wrote:
In post 3036, Irrelephant11 wrote:I would've shot last night, btw. There were good odds I'd be targeted based on what people told Alonzo to do, so what would be the point in holstering?
?

My point here was just that scum!me would mean dead!ruru
I haven’t thought through all the steps of scum strategy here but I’m pretty sure since I didn’t get blocked the no kill is a slight town point for me
Maybe scum had to no kill to have a chance here idk

@ruru imagine tw’d rep out was NAI. Who would you want to lynch/how would you read the slot?

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:24 pm

In post 3058, ruru wrote:
In post 3044, Irrelephant11 wrote:enigma pretty much has to be town for the same reasons I am regarding night actions + BuJ wanted him dead for most of the game.
also I also feel like this is another low-nuance "scum lynch town, town lynch scum" type read (I do think enigma is probably town, but your level of certainty is doubly strange to me considering you scumread enigma on night actions + posting alone and I don't, and I still haven't reached it after bujaber's flip)

I even mentioned a couple times that bujaber likes to mess with associatives as scum

his d1 case on enigma was "policy lynch for pagetopping" which is never ever going to get someone actually lynched so at least some of it could be distancing without necessarily having intent to bus either

this is fair but a part of the reason I wanted BuJ over Enigma was pre-flip associatives with tw, and tw had just become a scumread. Fmpov it was always Enigma OR BuJ, especially since last game day they were the two major wagons

This is dumb, if I’m the lynch, fine. Stop explaining why every word I say is scum, engage my sorting content, and then lynch me.

Irrelephant11 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:26 pm

In post 3061, skitter30 wrote:like i said i hadn't really been paying much attention to that idea so i wasn't really looking out for evidence that could point to/away from that theory and i need to skim some isos

So I think this is why I’ve been so angry
Feels like every good point I make is handwaved as “yeah but your slot has been scum all game, so”
And then if someone else says it it can be a point

Whatever

Irrelephant11 · Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:05 am

“Why does this question matter?”
Because I’m curious? Like why do you have to spend the time taking apart and scumreading every word I say when I’ve already agreed to get lynched?

Have you considered that the reason I’m angry is that you haven’t bothered interacting with me like I’m a townie for like even a second
I don’t care if you lynch me first; I agree that might be the right strategy fypov and I’ve already WIFOM’d up my slot by saying as such
I want to know if you agree that town!me means scum!Performer
Like I’m just trying to engage you on the content I wrote? To see if you think it makes sense?

@alonzo everyone is voting either me or performer today. Skitter and they want me, I want performer (but will settle for me if it means Performer is next).

I’m real confused why anyone thinks I would have holstered my shot as scum last night but I don’t care to engage with ruru much at all anymore and I probably still win by dying so do whatever

Irrelephant11 · Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:58 am

In post 3090, skitter30 wrote:if your'e scum and someone else got rb'd you can frame them; i'm not entirely following why it you think it should be obvious that scum!you wouldn't have shot last night?

So like,

Let's say I'm scum.

1 - If I don't shoot, and I get roleblocked, I become semi-confirmed scum (or at least that much more likely to get lynched)
2 - If I don't shoot, and someone else gets roleblocked, they become semi-confirmed scum (or at least I have a chance at mislynching them (though for some reason y'all think I would instead begin to play like garbage a game day in advance while lynching my partner in hopes that I could get one more mislynch in before my death is inevitable but regardless))
3 - If I do shoot, and I get roleblocked, things are exactly the same as scenario 1
4 - If I do shoot, and ruru dies, I trade conf!town ruru for conf!town {performer, enigma} which is sort of a bad trade in terms of mislynchability but at least one more townie is dead (and we stay in evens, which is pro-scum). Given I need 5 more townies dead to win, I either would need:
--> 2 mislynches (one of {enigma, performer} &, idk, korina) and 3 nightkills (ruru, Alonzo, doesn't matter because at this point I've won, unless we no lynched in mylo, in which case I just kill a conftown and it's lylo anyway)
--> 3 mislynches (performer, enigma, and one of {korina, skitter}) and 2 nightkills (ruru & Alonzo)

So by holstering you're assuming I'm going for more mislynches & fewer nightkills, but actually looking at it it's not that unreasonable a play and this is probably exactly the point I would try to make as scum for you to townread me, so I guess it's not as strong a point as I thought it was.

It's still not what I would do as scum here, but I guess that's more of a fun post-flip tidbit than it is AI for me to say rn.

In post 3082, ruru wrote:then why are you still ateing and making it annoying to lynch you? like I don't believe that you're actually ignorant of what you're doing here.

okay, great.
I will now prodge until the game ends.
This is not game throwing, I'm that confident Performer is scum and will die that I feel no need to sort further.
ruru is right that my temper tantrum is just that we're not winning as *fast as I'd like* so I'll stop AtEing.

Wait, real quick gonna analyze the possibilities here (you'll forgive me for a few more words, this is probably my last real post):
If enigma is scum, and I'm today's lynch
6 person night, presumably holstering again (so as not to conftown performer) // 6 person day, performer lynch // 5 person night, either ruru dies and alonzo conftowns korina or no kill // 4 person mylo with alonzo and enigma 1v1ing or 5 person day with enigma at the bottom of the lynchpool
this is fine.

If Korina is scum, and I'm today's lynch
6 person night, potentially holstering again (so as not to conftown one of enigma/performer) // If holstering, 6 person day, performer lynch // 5 person night, holstering again // 5 person day, enigma lynch yada yada town wins here
If not holstering, 5 person day with conftown performer(could be enigma, but for example) and dead ruru, enigma lynch // 4 person night where korina might holster/get roleblocker but either way is in a 1v1 with skitter and there's some number of conftown

Yes okay town wins unless it's skitter and I'm willing to bet the game on town skitter
If I were scum I would concede here, honestly (hint @scum: concede)

Oh wait
If ruru is scum (just to cover all my bases, I don't believe this at all), and I'm today's lynch
6 person night, ruru has to holster indefinitely because she's the next nightkill // 6 person day, enigma/performer lynch // 5 person day, enigma/performer lynch // 4 person day, korina lynch? Even though I just showed above why Korina wouldn't holster indefinitely? Wait no I didn't, really. a ruru/alonzo/korina/skitter mylo is the potential problem case, huh? With indefinite holstering making it hard to know why they're holstering

Well if you're performer/enigma scum you should concede

Frick so now I have to bet the game on ruru/alonzo/korina/skitter all being town for my death to be strictly optimal play
... which honestly I'm really close to being ready to do, unless anyone disbelieves one of the role claims (given BuJ's TMI about the roles that skitter pointed out and I had also noticed, I don't disbelieve any role claims)

I'll ISO Korina before I bet the game on him being town, and other than the results of that will only post content when asked. Also I would feel yucky about voting myself but if two players ask me to I will.

Irrelephant11 · Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:22 am

I don't think Korina is scum
#couldbewrong
#youllfigureitout

Irrelephant11 · Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:10 am

In post 3549, ruru wrote:also sorry everyone you got bitchy ruru this game

I started the game tilted and it didn't really untilt me

no me, I'm the sorry

In post 3562, skitter30 wrote:also sorry irrel

i felt super bad for tunneling you for like three dayphases :/

forgiven <3
At some point I accepted that I probably had to die for town to figure it out and then I started playing REALLY TERRIBLY because I hated that I'd accepted that.

GG town! Well played! Enigma played endgame sorta oddly and y'all figured it out anyway!

Irrelephant11 · Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:20 am

In post 3612, ruru wrote:Subject: Open 737: Stack the Deck (Mafia PT)

ofrhz wrote:
In post 3094, ruru wrote:Lynch irrel

hahahaha

this was fun! Don't let my tilt make you think I didn't have fun! Puzzling out scum after repping in is always an interesting place to be