Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: AP

Who wants to be mini me and who wants to be number 2.

[RCEnigma]

Nosferatu, Sephiroth, Dva, FA_Q2 would be my guess. It would be 4 scum in a 19 player list right?

[RCEnigma]

Can I get a key for that chart? I'm lost. Also like 6 more Ap votes.

[RCEnigma]

Town posts, null posts, scum posts? Creature?

[RCEnigma]

Can I change my guesses? Nosferatu is town lol.

[RCEnigma]

2 inno children in 2 pages.

[RCEnigma]

Is 3 scum, 1 traitor possible with 19?

[RCEnigma]

Well not possible I mean, but likely?

[RCEnigma]

Maybe I'm just town.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: creature

Compared to this?

[RCEnigma]

Huh. Come to think of it, Creat's numbering system actually is similar to Ruby Red's numbering system where she was town in that one game. Maybe it's just a helpful way of keeping track of things in a large game, to simplify it.

Is 3 scum, 1 traitor possible with 19?

Possibly, as Traitor fits in normal guidelines. But why ask about Traitor specifically?

Creature brought up traitor and I wanted to verify if it could be included in a smaller variation of scum.

Dva's posts on setup cleared some things up since I was under the impression games came from used it known setups. But they don't have to have been played which is cool I guess

[RCEnigma]

Both votes are bad. At the very least Dvas setup spec is semi game related and semi relevant since it was answering questions from earlier.

Meanwhile garmr has 0 game related posts but it's Nai. Mmk.

[RCEnigma]

No I'm a dirty Hanzo main.

[RCEnigma]

That was more so directed to flubber but you can't catch scum if you are scum so consider me unimpressed.

[RCEnigma]

That was more so directed to flubber but you can't catch scum if you are scum so consider me unimpressed.

Lets pretend I am scum and bussing a buddy so you can hop on the wagon.

Yeah...i'll pass.

[RCEnigma]

Hi AP

RCE is town I think

Ewww why am I town? :p but hi Ofrhz.

[RCEnigma]

Enigma, why are you townreading Nosferatu?

I think as scum it would be very nuanced to use the difficulty of confirming roles for town. As opposed to mafia whom could confirm in their pt pregame.

[RCEnigma]

Does an AP wagon truly need a reason?

[RCEnigma]

Hi AP

RCE is town I think

Didn't like this at first because it came off like "he's not in my pt so he's probably town"

But fair enough you did just try to carry lurker scum me.

Ofrhz what do you think about Garmr and Creature?

[RCEnigma]

For the pocket of course, it's worked for now. In general I think creature is town. I liked Garmr pressing him as well.

I want to townread Sephiel but it's not there yet, I probably won't be able to read him as well as last game (naturally) but it's not the same energy despite his head to head with Nosferatu.

Nosferatu, take my town read and like it.

[RCEnigma]

Ahh well no to be fair I put the idea of masons in her head because I thought the Sephiroth/invis dynamic was so...odd.

I regret making that post now because if you had come out with your line of thinking I would have had a better read on Ofrhz.

[RCEnigma]

So this is a pretty big lynch pool. Even for a wip. I am going to be paying close attention to how it gets whittled down.

What does it mean to have players in it that you cant sort? And why cant you sort them?

In a 20 man game I don't see a problem with a wide early game lynchpool.

Why is Carca bolded here but not addressed in your questioning?

Did AP catch a partner or two in that net?

[RCEnigma]

I meant Sephiroth. And no Invisibility isn't in this game. Profii brought up a recent game he was using to meta Ofrhz, it just involved other players not in this game.

[RCEnigma]

Liking my towncircle so far. Out of curiosity Performer why are you voting AP out of everyone in this game?

[RCEnigma]

Missed the unvote. You can be a townlean for now.

[RCEnigma]

tbh I'm mostly just moving off AP who I'm hoping will now stop hitting on me, Maxous seems like fine wagon but is hardly lockscum

ofhrz is town tho, you must believe in the heart of the cards on that one

I'm indiffrent but ofhrz isn't on my is scum list. Would like to see more posting.

But I can understand somewhat your jump. There really isn't anyone besides creature to me that jumps out as scum even then creatures only kinda scummy.

Not even Shattiel? Who is a mighty fine Day vig shot of I can throw that out there.

[RCEnigma]

tbh I'm mostly just moving off AP who I'm hoping will now stop hitting on me, Maxous seems like fine wagon but is hardly lockscum

ofhrz is town tho, you must believe in the heart of the cards on that one

I'm indiffrent but ofhrz isn't on my is scum list. Would like to see more posting.

But I can understand somewhat your jump. There really isn't anyone besides creature to me that jumps out as scum even then creatures only kinda scummy.

Not even Shattiel? Who is a mighty fine Day vig shot of I can throw that out there.

Wut you wanna fight me baldy?

I'll just introduce you to the sharks.

[RCEnigma]

Found him.

[RCEnigma]

Shatti what do u think Nos' role is

idk why do I have to speculate about roles?

dont be such a stick in the mud

okay you can be a cop then.. and I'm Vig.

Carca what do you think shattiel's role is? If you guess right I won't let town lynch you ever.

[RCEnigma]

There are 19 players and you are currently voting no one because you are waiting for the replacement on the one player being replaced.

Who are the other scum Shattiel?

This! Admittedly I didn't have Dva near a townlist till this page for the joined at the hip with Ofrhz thing. I Townread her too but can you explain your undying faith a bit?

Dvas gear switch comes off well. There are a lot of slots complaining about the lack of scummy slots making it hard to scumhunt and instead of sitting doing the same things that have stagnated the game -- she's reversed into finding the town slots and pulling scum from the scraps, I like it.

Shattiel is still scum, I'll piece together why after they say more scummy things. Unless....dayvig im counting on you.

Town in no particular order:

Creature
Garmr
Profii
Ofrhz
Nosferatu
Dva
Flavor Leaf is last.

Slots I think I was supposed to be reading town but don't remember why:

Performer
AP, that would be unnatural

Null:

Xx
Carcalilly
Flubbernugget
Inferno
CT
FA_Q2 but could be scum

Probably scum:
Sephiroth
Maxous

Scum:
Shattiel

[RCEnigma]

Move Carca to my probably scum pile.

[RCEnigma]

Did I mention Profii is town? He continues to be town to me.

Saudade entrance is meh at first glance, but giving it a second thought that's probably town. It is almost inviting investigative roles to pay him a visit. I'm tentatively crossing that slot out of my large lynch pool.

DVa doesn't sound like a good lynch on D1 either.

Shattiel is talking, but what exactly are they saying?? Will give them some slack.

I would rather hear more from everyone else.

None of this is outside of Saudades scumrange. I'd consider every Saudade post to be NAI.

[RCEnigma]

Town in no particular order:

Creature
Garmr
Profii
Ofrhz
Nosferatu
Dva
Flavor Leaf is last.

Slots I think I was supposed to be reading town but don't remember why:

Performer
AP, that would be unnatural

Null:

Xx
Carcalilly
Flubbernugget
Inferno
CT
FA_Q2 but could be scum

Probably scum:
Sephiroth
Maxous

Scum:
Shattiel

Taking a note to come back to this read-list later because i don't like it at all.

.
Soft shattiel defense, shading without depth. Do you want to hear my case on Shattiel or no? Probably not. I understand.

[RCEnigma]

Oh I'm not even voting there, thought I was.

VOTE: shattiel

[RCEnigma]

RCE, why do you scum read max?

Low input, I know what he thinks I'm exactly 4 slots minus the shade thrown towards AP which I kind of like but isn't outside of the realm of distancing.

That and his play is almost exactly parallel to his top scumreads play. In a nutshell doesn't contribute unless prompted, only responds when directly questioned with the exception of the AP shade and to say shattiel is getting scumread for being scummy but he's not scum.

[RCEnigma]

I feel like I should be concerned that I'm sharing a lot of thoughts with CT...like a scary amount. But I still don't Townread him.

[RCEnigma]

Was going to wall for Shattiel but the gist of it is: wtf is your play.

When I think of scum objectives, confusion is one and that's all I get when I consider what you're doing. The whole don't look at me but look at me thing with all of the pseudoclaims.

I don't really care much of everyone else finds it nai or that you're trying to bait a nk (you aren't). It's literal active lurking.

Why is seph town in seph v nos but nos isn't? Why is seph town at all. Why are you and Max so friendly without engaging each other? What makes Garmr looking for more pressure on his scumread scummy?

Why is AP getting scummier everytime he posts?

[RCEnigma]

Oh, so when I said Shattiel wasn't posting it was me trying to shade the slot, but when they start to post and could possibly be read by someone (DVa says they're Town) a wagon start building on the slot? That's ... bizarre! (Yes, I'm shamelessly questioning the wagon on Shattiel at this particular time).

No posts =/= scum credibility

Readable fluff posts = scum credibility.

I expect more from you

[RCEnigma]

They were all for you.

[RCEnigma]

I may have misread 381. Still, thoughts on why garmr bugs you?

And the AP question isn't in reference I just want to know if you think he's scum or not (hint, he is).

[RCEnigma]

THAT'S the claim you guys decided to bite on?

[RCEnigma]

It's not a silly question it is odd behavior. Not only from your slot. There is a trend:

Shattiel/Maxous
Dva/ofhrz
Creature/me
I'm sure there are others that aren't as obvious but have soft defended each other without actually engaging.

[RCEnigma]

Flavor Leaf are you here?

Yo

I know a fake mason claim when I see em...masons and Ic?

Bless this man.

[RCEnigma]

I may have misread 381. Still, thoughts on why garmr bugs you?

And the AP question isn't in reference I just want to know if you think he's scum or not (hint, he is).

Well his case is wrong first of all then he doesn't seem to get wtf I'm talking about and now his seeing these posts of mine with a big red lens.

Haven't really noticed AP much.

Well he did believe 1 of 8 claims so his scumread can't be that serious.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I guess it might be, if I was asking town.

[RCEnigma]

Something along the lines of "we're masons" or something like that idk.

[RCEnigma]

I'm the only person that thought 5 claims was scummy. Ehh I might just be wrong here then and Shattiel really is a lynchproof 2 shot vig cop mason that's revealed IC on request.

[RCEnigma]

The good news is I don't have to worry about that mind meld dilemma with CT anymore.

[RCEnigma]

It's not a silly question it is odd behavior. Not only from your slot. There is a trend:

Shattiel/Maxous
Dva/ofhrz
Creature/me
I'm sure there are others that aren't as obvious but have soft defended each other without actually engaging.

I think there's a difference between me explicitly townreading ofhrz and you explicitly townreading Creature from Shattiel jokeclaiming masons with Max. I also have engaged ofhrz at this point. That doesn't mean Shattiel is town, but there's a difference between hard defenses ("this person is town") and soft defenses ("I don't think this person is scum")

The soft defense part and the pairings are separate but they relate in that you have not elaborated on your Ofrhz read, I have not elaborated on my creature read and vice versa, and Shattiel has not elaborated on their relationship when asked about it specifically.

[RCEnigma]

Good call Dva, vote the scum for me

[RCEnigma]

RCE, why do you scum read max?

Low input, I know what he thinks I'm exactly 4 slots minus the shade thrown towards AP which I kind of like but isn't outside of the realm of distancing.

That and his play is almost exactly parallel to his top scumreads play. In a nutshell doesn't contribute unless prompted, only responds when directly questioned with the exception of the AP shade and to say shattiel is getting scumread for being scummy but he's not scum.

that is objectively untrue.
I've given my thoughts on the relevant happenings everytime i posted.
There's just been a lot of noise at times

Agree to disagree, that's just a narrative that I don't think was pushed by town.

[RCEnigma]

Dilly dilly. Still want shattiel to be the lynch. Will compromise for Maxous though.

[RCEnigma]

Scum is only scum if they slip?

[RCEnigma]

Saudade my man. Lemme pocket you again.

[RCEnigma]

That doesn't sound like stable logic.

[RCEnigma]

I'll get a semi VC together.

[RCEnigma]

Current wagons are

Sephiel - creature, Profii, FL, Saudade, Dva, Ofrhz
Flubbernugget - carcalilly, CT, performer.
Shattiel - flubbernugget, garmr, RCEnigma

[RCEnigma]

Whoops performer changed his vote to seph, L-3

[RCEnigma]

Ehh town can't *actually* differentiate between fake and real reads with no information to compare it to.

On top of that scum aren't guaranteed to slip.

[RCEnigma]

With the exception of Saudade and performer they are all my townreads.

[RCEnigma]

He was in my probably scum pile at I think he's more transparent as town. And pretty much all of my townblock is on the lynch.

[RCEnigma]

As*

[RCEnigma]

Nos said town thing. Not scum thing.

[RCEnigma]

But shouldn't we be asking "Mister Evil" here. I call him Mr cuz I happen to know he FAILED in that Evil Medical School.

Powers are you familiar with volcano's?

[RCEnigma]

He was in my probably scum pile at I think he's more transparent as town. And pretty much all of my townblock is on the lynch.

where do you think are his buddies?

Could be anyone, he doesn't have strong connections to any slot in particular. Dva/sephiroth felt much more genuine than nos/sephiroth. So I don't think Dva is a partner.

If Sephiroth is scum there's an least one on his wagon before pressure really gets applied, I'd bet on performer.

Xx could be a partner with his fencesitting reads.
Nos and Seph could have been scum theater.

Dunno, if Sephiroth is scum it doesn't really make a difference today as long as he flips scum.

[RCEnigma]

Uuum why is there a shattiel/sephiroth dichotomy?

[RCEnigma]

So I had to read through like 5 pages, will posts my thoughts on them after laundry. Performer I can't pinpoint which post you asked but I never explicitly Townread you, same with AP. You weren't exactly null, there was nothing to Townread you for but I still kinda liked you at that point. Saudade I was going to wait until tomorrow to read, I know how troll his town and scum games are but he slips alignment at some point.

I believe the post you took those inferences from were questions directed by shattiel that were very specifically about the Sephiroth wagon and IF he were scum.

[RCEnigma]

It's not looking good for Saudade.

[RCEnigma]

Hi Gamma

VOTE: seph

still have a scum read here.

-

I'm not sure why everyone is voting Sephiroth. I don't find him super scummy. I think this is a scum-driven wagon, but I might be wrong.

the confirmed town jumped on him and and think it did give licence for scummy players to jump.
i would guess 2 of them

2? But you only scumread one of the sheeping voters.

Dva, Saudade, ofrhz, performer were the slots that voted after FL. Do you still believe that read or was it a throwaway line?

[RCEnigma]

Everything from Shattiel up to that point was fluff, the second IC thing rubbed me the wrong way. It gets better though keep reading

[RCEnigma]

Dolphins?!

Why is this Carcas towniest post

[RCEnigma]

Mmmk that was before I got through the last three pages. Dunno which slot Shortaru was but he's town. Garmr/Carca was interesting but not in the "I wanna read all of these posts" kinda way. But Carca stands on garmrs chest in the end so they can be town today, garmr moves down.

VOTE: xx2008.

If we can get Dva, gamma, nos, FL, Carca, Ofrhz, profii, and maybe AP or Saudade together it's probably an all town wagon. Vote up

[RCEnigma]

Well L-1 since Garmr neglected it.

[RCEnigma]

With 2 days left Im worried about how much of a compromise lynch this feels like compared to actual scum equity. I will also note that flubbers wagon remained consistent throughout the day until the counterwagons were Shattiel and then Sephiroth in that order.

[RCEnigma]

They posted townie things.

[RCEnigma]

They posted townie things AND I can't find a scum angle based on their Day 1 play*

[RCEnigma]

I see profii Dva ofrhz and performer sticking together

I wouldn't poke there yet but if Seph and Flubb are both town then it's almost guaranteed that at least 1 scum is there.

Any of these reads change based on flubber flipping scum?

[RCEnigma]

The combination of ofrhz being the largest counter-wagon to Flubber and if i remember right, Dva had him as a town read, would make ofrhz a stupid lynch today - so i'm dropping that.

I'll go over the votes on the Flubber wagon in a bit

I don't want to lynch ofhrz today but I still think interactions with flubber are worth Looking into. If there are any, I haven't looked back yet.

Also don't think ofhrz kills off the slot hard defending him so early.

[RCEnigma]

So there's that, the bulk of flubbers voters were also on sephiroths wagon. I think it's less indicative of sephiroths alignment than it is indicative of the wagon compositions motives.

[RCEnigma]

So there's that, the bulk of flubbers voters were also on sephiroths wagon. I think it's less indicative of sephiroths alignment than it is indicative of the wagon compositions motives.

And those motives are...?

Lynching scum?

[RCEnigma]

I did not think the bulk that shattiel isolated are scum
. Xx2k's point is kind of the reason. After FL showed his hand there wasn't really any fight to keep the wagon on sephieo and those 4votes are the ones that ultimately made flubber the lynch.

[RCEnigma]

This new keyboard is killing me. I apologise.

[RCEnigma]

Nos, myself, Nero, maxous, xx, sephiroth, shattiel, saudade. Do you have an order of preference ofrhz?

These are all the slots not on the flubber lynch eod.

[RCEnigma]

I will defend probably two of those slots, not including myself.

[RCEnigma]

Nos, myself, Nero, maxous, xx, sephiroth, shattiel, saudade. Do you have an order of preference ofrhz?

These are all the slots not on the flubber lynch eod.

Probably {xx, Max} > saudade / nos

Saudade and nos are there because I don't think I can really read them

Since Gamma is townreading xx and profii/AP both have max in their sights,

VOTE: Max

I guess there's also something to be said for sheeping the dead

Do you have anything for a case against maxous in particular? Or did you just want to have two wagons?

[RCEnigma]

I haven't played games this large before, so this is a pretty new experience. Newbie-type games I have been playing before I joined mafiascum.

Ahh yeah this will have different roles. The use of IC in this game means Innocent Child, and yes it just means FL was revealed by mod to be town. Strongman can attack through protections.

FL thinks you're town and you might die for it. What do you think about profii, performer, and maxous?

[RCEnigma]

To be fair I played in a game with an inno child and Everytime IC was brought up I thought inexperience challenged but didn't want to ask. It's a weak read to attack that regardless.

[RCEnigma]

I am leaning Maxous over you two. Performer's views today look too weird to come from scum, whether informed or not. They're drawing way too much attention his way for no good reason. Profii I am less certain about because he voted me then flipped on Maxous. I dunno if that was a thoughtless town move or an elaborate scum move, but I'm still leaning the former and I am not yet ready to vote him either.

Maxous' leading the wagon on me and doubling down on an already bad case with more bad arguments is yucky. Looks like scum who shot themselves in the foot and can't find a way to retract.

I can tell you my exact thought process as I read the the thread following start day 2

1. Day 1 too long to reread, can’t be bothered let other people point stuff out
2. Saudade is actively sheeping FL still and nothing else. We should remove this from the game as it will be scum seeing how long he can coast for - I am p. Sure I have seen Saudade himself admit he did this in a scum game once, so hence the vote - also

this would be a great vig shot

3. Maxous made a push on you which looked good on the face of it, so I voted, no one seemed to be going Saudade
4. I did actually check Maxous ISO and his case on you became quite ironic as he did all the things he said you did, but worse imo


On reflection - I’m voting Maxous as a compromise to work with people, Saudade is the best lynch but people need to think about it - might go and find that previous game where Saudade said he scum coasted and got away with it

So his sheeping FL day one was ok, but you voted him day 1. Now that vote was serious. While I agree saudade isn't productive, I don't think it's a good lynch yet. I don't think Maxous is a good lynch now either.

Every reason I scumread him for (except a read on Shattiel that ties them) has been addressed and I like his early activity.

I feel like a lot of my reads have flipped and a lot of scum may be lurking in my town pile. I'll still keep dvas masonblock alive though.

[RCEnigma]

Xx2k is probably town too for the IC comments. Pushing him as scum for it is pretty weak. Even as AP I expect better play than this.

[RCEnigma]

In the newbie queue slots are marked as se/ic on the main post. Here it isn't marked as such but IC keeps being brought up in different context. Which is where I think it's confusing him.

[RCEnigma]

If we are voting outside of the flubber wagon (I think we should) I would prefer in the pool of Shattiel/Nero/Sephiroth

[RCEnigma]

Really? You don't think Shortaru was light defending flubber in his catch up?

If AP disappeared from the game who's next up in your list?

I agree a lynch on saudade is a waste today.

[RCEnigma]

Voyeur would just be a watcher no?

[RCEnigma]

Nevermind I wiki'd it. AP is the interesting result right? What exactly makes the interactions around xx2ks question relevant to your claim?

[RCEnigma]

Voyeur Shattiel next, it seems he's taken a liking to it.

[RCEnigma]

I’ve just realised what’s going on

Ha ha

Please no.

[RCEnigma]

Can we censor Shattiel? :Cry:

[RCEnigma]

[RCEnigma]

Expecting a mountain of a post.

[RCEnigma]

Idk ask xx. Innocent child has been used multiple times. Even the exact phrase Flavor Leaf is innocent child. I can empathize with the confusion around it.

[RCEnigma]

Expecting a mountain of a post.

Why would you expect a

mountain

of a post?

The hour lapse between dropping the claim without the results and your next posts. Figured you were explaining out your results maybe.

[RCEnigma]

Maxous, you said in 1103 that your read on RCE hinged on flips and you had a problem with his readlist. Have the recent flips changed your opinion of the slot at all?

To be fair the only slot from that list I still think could be scum is Sephiroth. Shattiels grown on me, maxous too. Probably just masons as claimed. *Disclaimer /s about the masons*

[RCEnigma]

Is that solely based on your track?

[RCEnigma]

If the have x shot or x night actions....yes, possibly.

[RCEnigma]

@ Performer: Are you an 'alien' jailkeeper? According to the wiki that would make your target completely untargetable which would be different than just preventing NKs and preventing the night actions of FL. Its important to get this piece of info now as opposed to later, I think.

Alignments other than town, mafia/werewolf are not normal.

[RCEnigma]

Consider this: if town ap thought max was scum, then his disloyal role means max HAS to hit someone of OPPOSITE alignment in order for his role to work. If max was indeed scum, then max OBVIOUSLY would target OPPOSITE ALIGNMENT aka anyone other than his team. Now, if max turned out to be a tpr too, then town ap shouldn't even risk it because what if tpr max had a protect or some other good ability to help town - then ap would've neutralized max's role. So ideally ap needs to have waited until another night to use his ability, because on n1 he could've neutralized tpr.
Am I understanding this correctly?

I thought disloyal just meant-
AP targets someone of same alignment as him --> AP's rb fails
AP targets someone of different alignemtn --> AP's rb succeeds

This is how I understood the mechanic. I don't think the targets target comes into play.

[RCEnigma]

So I was thinking if we buy APs claim, how viable is it to also track APs rb target? If you're both town AND you survive the night, that has the possibility of confirming scum or forcing a nonaction.

[RCEnigma]

I'd assume you're limited to 3 of your actions a night?

[RCEnigma]

Along with rule 15 about roleblocking & the mention of strongman in dva's flip, I don't think it's a coincidence those 2 words were mentioned. Not sure if there's really a 2nd faction and/or sk out there and/or strongman out there, with what I spoke about with mod. If anyone wants, they can ask the mod itt to confirm what I said.

There is the possibility of vig or pgo, which could be how it relates. I think a town killing role or strongman would be more likely than another faction.

[RCEnigma]

So I was thinking if we buy APs claim, how viable is it to also track APs rb target? If you're both town AND you survive the night, that has the possibility of confirming scum or forcing a nonaction.

Confirming TOWN you mean? Because Scum will be RB'd. It is the TOWN with an action that will still be able to perform their action, so a Tracker seeing them act = they are confirmed Town.

Right, backwards.

[RCEnigma]

If you hit the scum carrying out the kill it confirms scum however. Only if performer doesn't block in the same night.

[RCEnigma]

I'm willing to bite on AP being disloyal RB for the moment and my town pile is too large, that's an issue. Saudade isn't a good lynch....yet. Id be fine e with any of Nero, Sephiroth, maybe nos or Gamma.

[RCEnigma]

Who was it that pushed on gamma earlier today?

[RCEnigma]

If Profii gets lynched and flips scum while I'm off the wagon again I'll flip a table. Think he's town though.

VOTE: Sephiroth

After being saved by FL he's pretty much coasted. Don't think this play is indicative of his town play. I recall something about a flawless scum record but with scum lynched day 1 and prs forming a solid block I can see Sephiroth resigning here.

[RCEnigma]

To clarify: AP is claiming to have roleblocked literally the one slot he knows for a fact didn't go anywhere - due to Performer's track result.
Quite a coincidence.

Who'd he claim to RB?

Me.
AFTER Performer gave his track results on me.

You can judge AP's reasoning for yourself

If AP were scum fakeclaiming disloyal RB, he could literally just choose any fucking townie and claim to have blocked them. And then he could just pretend the action failed because both him and his target were town.

He didn't have to claim to target someone that we knew didn't move last night.

Like, you're not thinking critically about this at all.

AP didn't use his result to push back on Maxous at all which was what I was looking for. But I also think AP is aware it would have discredited his claim. Still think his claim is genuine.

[RCEnigma]

I haven't played with scum Sephiroth.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Seph



If I did this on D1 only you would have got the joke/meme. Now the whole wide world knows about it, so no need for me to explain it.

+1

[RCEnigma]

I’ve been looking at Saudade - but like outside of this game too - I think whilst playing he had got a N_M style about him but I’ve also noticed he goes out of character and becomes “normal” in the post game chat etc

So whilst the play style of “I’ll just follow the IC” is actively not scum hunting, also quite risky given we have both just seen FL take a massive risk on that mason claim - I’ll put that down to Saudade just strictly following a meta so he can produce it as town or scum


He needs a PR to sort basically. He could be a day 1 pl in terms of we know he will be impossible to sort let’s get the game moving but that moments passed


I’ll just ignore him for until he starts thinking for himself

This is what I was alluding to in terms of him eventually slipping. What makes Saudade dangerous as either alignment is his ability to switch meta game to game. That said if saudade is still up in the air tomorrow I don't have a problem sorting him then.

[RCEnigma]

Saudade is the sole reason I hate meta reads.

[RCEnigma]

Out of curiosity what specifically pinged you from Shortaru as a defense. How do you feel about Maxous today? In your last readslist you said he had enough connections to be suspicious but you would sort it later. It is later and I think there's enough surrounding him to re evaluate.

That same readslist you noted Shortaru as town specifically for his case on XX, Nero picked up the read so why is it scummy now? If I gave you a shot right now are you confident Nero flips scum?

[RCEnigma]

Bit of meta (I know I just said I hate it) 1514 was the exact kind of post I was waiting for from Profii to really put a town read on him.

If I had to form a town block right now it would be something like FL, Performer, AP, Profii, ofhrz, Maxous.

Shattiel, xx, carca

CT, saudade not exactly sorted

Nos for day 2, garmr.....reasons

Nero, Sephiroth

[RCEnigma]

Saudade is the sole reason I hate meta reads.

????

It's a thing. You're one weird dude. I like it though.

[RCEnigma]

If I had to form a town block right now it would be something like FL, Performer, AP, Profii, ofrhz, Maxous.

Why is Max town? Max's only scumread is someone else in your townbloc

Town can't be wrong? He also scumread you day one and you're also in my town block. I townread him independent of his scumreads.

[RCEnigma]

My initial scumread on Maxous was his scumread on you. Low and mostly forced participation, reactive posting (mostly to prods on him). I associated his play with some of my scum tells. Day 2 his play is a flip from that. He came out active and sure he's tunneling but I find that town indicative as well.

The only way I see Maxous pursuing his AP this hard as scum is if he is scum with AP. The wagon isn't going anywhere post claim but Maxous still wanting town to keep an open mind about the claim instead of pursuing an easier read that town has already expressed interest in (Nero) is also town indicative to me.

To add to that if Shattiel were to flip scum, Maxous is town spewed. If AP flips town Maxous is probably town as well.

[RCEnigma]

Dva died for the reverse scumhunting, keep it going.

[RCEnigma]

My initial scumread on Maxous was his scumread on you. Low and mostly forced participation, reactive posting (mostly to prods on him). I associated his play with some of my scum tells. Day 2 his play is a flip from that. He came out active and sure he's tunneling but I find that town indicative as well.

Why is his tunnel town indicative tho?

I see him presenting a case on AP but not once does he actually engage directly with AP. I know you don’t like meta reads, but town max is capable of initiating discussion with his scumreads and asking questions, and how he approaches his scumreads here is bizarre

Couple things to consider, some relate to other reasons Maxous is town and some don't.

So Scum Maxous comes into the the day with 1 person scumreading him dead. FL went into the night dubbing him scum and myself painting him as scum with Shattiel. Opens the day with a hard case against AP(immediate attention on a previously lurky slot) the counter case being, well Maxous did some of those things too....which is...what??? A scummy action is scummy regardless of who it comes from or how many slots it comes from but whatever.

Pretty sure FL made a play in calling Maxous scum going into the night. But he hasn't spoken about Maxous today so I'll leave that where it is unless FL wants me to go into it. It worked btw.

Dvas death looks bad on Maxous but with the tracker result it semi clears him and leads me to believe Maxous didn't have input in the kill for similar reasoning FL gave on XX not being involved. I guess scum Maxous still makes that call if they have more than one informed role, which is possible.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think Shattiel flips scum either I was just making the point that my read on Shattiel influenced the read on Maxous l -- but it's still applicable to his alignment if Shattiel flipped red.

[RCEnigma]

Maybe FL wasn't making the play I thought he made yesterday :p

VOTE: Nero

[RCEnigma]

Why are we not voting Nero more?

[RCEnigma]

Except that profiis reasoning for voting now is the exact reasoning i brought up earlier, also the reasoning I was trying to pull from CT. But yeah sure, opportunistic scum without reasons.

[RCEnigma]

I think your only fair point is XX has been fencesitting. Which is true, but is there a why besides....just cause? If he's fencesitting with kost spots why is ohfrz specifically a partner?

I've also never scumread ofrhz so lul.

Maybe you should go do those ISOs bud.

[RCEnigma]

also if this max lynch goes through, a lily lynch would be nice

What makes you think a Maxous wagon gains traction? As opposed to say Nero right now.

Maxous has hard defenders right now so to even get that ball rolling you have to case Maxous + slots defending Maxous. Which would be harder and more time consuming than casing Nero who has no defenders aside from Gamma doing a Shortaru (same reason Nero's slot looks scummy).

[RCEnigma]

He's also protecting his weak scumbuddy XX.

In post 1506, RCEnigma wrote:
In the newbie queue slots are marked as se/ic on the main post. Here it isn't marked as such but IC keeps being brought up in different context. Which is where I think it's confusing him.


In post 1575, RCEnigma wrote:
Innocent child has been used multiple times. Even the exact phrase Flavor Leaf is innocent child.

Like no way he doesn't understand when you guys are literally saying that FL is an innocent child.

So I made the connection between myself and scumbuddy xx whom probably becomes a lynch Target tomorrow regardless....to do ???

I guess win town points with FL, who likely doesn't make it to tomorrow anyways. Damn I'm good.

[RCEnigma]

I guess win town points with FL, who likely doesn't make it to tomorrow anyways

He's also gonna be protected so thanks for letting us know you guys have a strongman.

VOTE: RCEnigma

You would have to know we have a protective to make this statement.

[RCEnigma]

Why did I only pick one person to vote out of the three I thought were scummy? Gonna head to the think tank and try to crank out a really good answer.

If your case wasn't solely "I know this and I know that" I'd slightly consider if it could come from town or not.

[RCEnigma]

You would have to know we have a protective to make this statement.

both jailkeeper and bodyguard are protectives and it's just a safe general assumption to assume that there is protection. But yeah, protection ablities have already been claimed anyways.

Forgot about Performers jailkeep so fair enough. But he's already stated severe limitations on his ability use and that bad things happen upon using them all. So it's still not guaranteed.

[RCEnigma]

Profii what makes a joat claim hard to sustain as scum?

[RCEnigma]

Nos what is your scumread on Maxous based on?

[RCEnigma]

@RCE I have limits to my role, and they're very severe limits

Also if anyone asks if I die after using all 6 of my abilities....I'm not going to answer that lol.

[RCEnigma]

I'd say those are bad things.

[RCEnigma]

From that I can assume he may not be able to use the same abilities on consecutive nights. Or maybe they have x shot modifiers and he can't use all abilities without dying. I don't know exactly either but they're all possibilities if I'm believing the claim. Which I do.

[RCEnigma]

Can you jk yourself?

[RCEnigma]

Fair, it wasn't what I asked for initially.

[RCEnigma]

IDK man, it just feels really slimy that you'd sit there and go "we have to have evidence that there are protections in the game to think that there are protections in the game." Its very layerish it a scuzzy way.

How many games have you played on this site that were protectionless

Nearly all of them.

[RCEnigma]

So I made the connection between myself and scumbuddy xx whom probably becomes a lynch Target tomorrow regardless....to do ???

Why do you think XX would be a viable lynch candidate tomorrow? Boon is hard town reading him and Saunde is leashed to Boon and you are supposedly hard town reading him. I don't think anyone is scum reading him besides me and Performer. I mean true, he'd be the weak part of any scum team and his town cred from playing the newb card will eventually run out so he needs to get bussed eventually so thanks for letting us know that you plan on doing just that.

Is there a reason that you never responded to this?

I'm actually quite curious why you think XX is going to get ran up when I'm apparently the only one scum reading him.

1. You aren't the only one scumreading him
2. Lynchbait lynchbait lynchbait
3. Half of the slots only show up to vote. Boondade and I defended the IC thing and I townread him for it because I've been there, but not a lot outside of that. So I would imagine it wouldn't take much to push in that direction.

[RCEnigma]

We've got 6 wagons and 3 days to decide a lynch. Don't want to hurry people to get it together but.....get it together.

[RCEnigma]

Ehh, fair point Nero. To be honest I didn't feel as strongly about you being scum after pressing you. You're wrong but for decent reasons I guess.

Think I'd rather Lynch nos or seph.

[RCEnigma]

Stop FL, you have 2 votes get it together.

[RCEnigma]

Fine VOTE: nos

[RCEnigma]

Ok. If Maxous flips town is Profii still scum? Or vice versa?

[RCEnigma]

Could be. Or it's not. What do you think about Nos?

[RCEnigma]

Alright so I don't have the energy to mount a defense on what's going to end up being a compromise Lynch on me due to deadline constraints and inactive slots.

This is what's going to happen. I'm going to bed as I work tonight. Then I'll wake up and I'm going to claim my role. Then AP, Performer, and myself are going to figure out how to confirm slots tonight. And then we will figure out who to actually Lynch.

Objections?

[RCEnigma]

Stole my joke FL

[RCEnigma]

I'm also a Joat, last night I disloyal vigged Maxous. He's not dead so there's my readflip from day 1 to day 2.

[RCEnigma]

I was going to propose AP rbs me tonight with performer tracking me. This either confirms ALL 3 claims AND Maxous or exposes 1 scum between myself and AP.

[RCEnigma]

Damn, you're right.

[RCEnigma]

I guess that doesn't work. And if scum has a roleblocker I'd screw town over.

[RCEnigma]

I thought it unlikely as well but considering my utility and performers utility I'm not sure how necessary the disloyal modifier is for scum. He would just be a roleblocker either way.

[RCEnigma]

Yes if we were different alignments Maxous would have died. It's essentially an alignment check.

[RCEnigma]

So Maxous is not scum or any third party.

[RCEnigma]

Well if I could vig tonight I would, sadly....

[RCEnigma]

I could see Profii working an angle that could certainly come from either alignment but other posts leaned town to me. Specifically his analysis when I brought up my initial lynchlist.

Unfortunately the main advocate for a Maxous Lynch was our confirmed town. I shot Maxous specifically because I thought Flavor was making a play.

I thought he threw out Maxous as a scumread to get an investigative to look into it, i also thought this when he ignored Maxous through most of the day and felt like he picked up I was pretty obviously shielding Maxous.

[RCEnigma]

Even if max was blocked he would have died as scum.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah in hindsight it wouldn't work the way I thought it would. We can split the playerlist three ways: perf 1st third AP 2nd third and I'll take the end.

[RCEnigma]

Someone case Profii, I'll skim his iso at work tonight but my preference is elsewhere.

[RCEnigma]

We would have to believe AP is town and scum does not have a roleblocker. But yeah it's not a risk we should be taking when we can get more info from 3 separate targets.

[RCEnigma]

Kinda dissapointed you cleared me instead of one of the lurker slots.

We clearly have a power-heavy game here though

To be fair you were one of those lurker slots until today. If I knew you would town up I would have checked elsewhere.

[RCEnigma]

Ok I'll rephrase, convince me he wasn't scumhunting.

[RCEnigma]

I figured you threw Max out because it was a slot you couldn't read.

[RCEnigma]

There are town doing the latter so fair enough.

[RCEnigma]

The only thing our Joat claim has in common is that we have multiple abilities. I cannot disloyal vig tonight but I can target one of the three you proposed.

My role and your results lead me to believe APs claim. But I've been wrong for scum having extra information before so take it with a grain of salt.

[RCEnigma]

Smells like a scum Gambit, I'll call it.

[RCEnigma]

[RCEnigma]

Then from your perspective it's more likely scum has a roleblocker......what would be the point in being ascetic then.

[RCEnigma]

You have zero effectiveness if you claimed this as town. So there's that.

[RCEnigma]

I have three abilities, a disloyal vig, a cop check which I'll be using, and an ability I'd rather not specify yet if it can be helped.

[RCEnigma]

I have three abilities, a disloyal vig, a cop check which I'll be using, and an ability I'd rather not specify yet if it can be helped.

I don't think your outing of the cop ability of your JOAT abilities, was necessary here.

This G A I M is M E S S ED UP .

They can't RB both of us....I think. Plus I've got an ace.

Moreso I'm pointing out that Gammas assumption isn't correct since I'm essentially an invest with a chance to kill on guilty.

[RCEnigma]

Why would scum target gamma if he's town?

[RCEnigma]

Wait did gamma not say his target only dies if they are scum?

[RCEnigma]

Gamma targeting me doesn't do anything, idc if he does. But there's no incentive for scum to target gamma now that he's claimed. He could wifom another target and hit scum, they don't know and if he claims me as his target and I don't die then they confirmed a PR.

[RCEnigma]

The normal we finished before this had an IC babysitter, it's not a bomb per say.

[RCEnigma]

Lol can we talk about ct for a bit.

[RCEnigma]

Way ahead of you.

[RCEnigma]

Umm that's the hammer.

[RCEnigma]

Why?

[RCEnigma]

I'll still target between Shattiel/CT/ofhrz

[RCEnigma]

My role doesnt kill unless I die

[RCEnigma]

We don't get a result from Gamma unless he's night killed.

[RCEnigma]

You keep losing me with the protection part.

[RCEnigma]

Gamma please confirm. Your role, you target someone and if you die: town lives or scum dies. That is your only ability, no? The rest are just modifiers.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, gotchya.

[RCEnigma]

This rolelist is low-key genius.

[RCEnigma]

I'm just thinking how it plays out with a scum roleblocker. This game could have been a lot Wilder night 1.

[RCEnigma]

Also wifoms the kills and results like crazy.

[RCEnigma]

I'm enjoying it.

[RCEnigma]

Tried to stop you from destroying yourself.

[RCEnigma]

Target one of the slots we aren't. If one of us are faking, you "confirming" us does more harm.

[RCEnigma]

add Nos actually

u added that entirely cause of hammer

thats feels over reals my guy

I would appreciate it if we all didn't power-lynch anyone for the next few hours.

hate to break it to ya

yeah 'oops i hammered on catchup'

sure

because as a slot that was doing ok in being tr d1 i would then active lurk the fuck out of d2

randomly switch my vote

and then lolhammer and pretend it was cause i was catching up

feels over reals my dude, quicker you realise it the better you'll feel o/

That's a pretty good Nos play recap.

[RCEnigma]

The more I read Garmrs iso the bigger that wolf avatar gets........requires further testing

[RCEnigma]

Indeed, thoughts? Now that it's interesting and you guys lynched town?