In post 259, the worst wrote: In post 45, Nineja wrote: In post 36, JunkoChan wrote:Clarification I don't mind random voting, I don't like being voted for no reason, I had a reason he was still inactive
about the logic behind that, people asking for mechanics rather than focusing on what's going on more often than not are scum gaining time
I understand the logic behind this, but IMO this is scum trying to gain an early game town read on the players by "scumhunting". I lost my original type up for why I explained this right when I was about to send it (yay mobile thank you for so much >_>)
i really didn't take much of an exception to this when i first read thru it but when i try to read it out loud in some kind of nineja voice it doesn't...flow? tone isn't a blatant scumtell in and of itself but i think this is really heavily overdramatised/overcompensated and it doesn't feel natural. natural tonality is more of a newbtown tell than lack of it being a newbscum tell but it's something.
at face value suggesting junko ?could? be scum for breaking out of rvs by pushing back against grandwazoo is ok but i don't think someone with a towny mindset reflects heavily on this, writes up a detailed post, accidentally deletes it, and then writes up another detailed post and posts it without reality checking this read. just off the top of my head a couple of things which i kinda feel like people should come up with pretty quickly when asking themselves "is junko town for this? is junko scum for this?" (or at least variations of these points)
1) by end of page 1 grandwazoo had already given off the impression of being an active poster/unlikely an easy mislynch--why would scum!junko pick him of everyone to fake scumhunt?
2) is her stance actually more likely to come from scum > town? it's probably fair to call it a pretty null/disinteresting issue to have long term, which i've talked to, but at a point in the game where there's nearly no information the fresh perspective junko showed in 36 was actually pretty town indicative imo.
instead he just...reacts assuming that she's town and chainsaws her for calling our grandwazoo
given the amount of time he's spent on this case & rewriting it i'm not convinced this is trying to short junko
About this posts I had a similar reaction that made me go hmmm, but then I re-read what I posted and knew where he was coming from and how my actions could be seen as scummy
In post 45, Nineja wrote:so this one wont be as detailed but imma try my best to remember my old points. anyways I think this is scum because in JunkoChan words scum is "gaining time" or in otherwords stalling, but scum wouldnt benefit from stalling day 1 of all days especially when we have 8 days left in the DL.
this is probably ok but refer above. it's just strange that he'd think through this himself while assuming junko is both scum, and scum so silly that she tried to lol-mislynch someone sod1 without paying attention to the timer. this reads closer to posturing than to sorting.
same as above
In post 45, Nineja wrote:Scum would benefit from getting early game townreads/allowing the game to let them townlead which I think JunkoChan is trying to do. At first I thought this was to shift attention and votes off moonythedwarf, who has the most votes at the moment but now that I look at it its too early into day 1 to consider a shift like that, so for now I'll just stick with Mafia trying to gain early game town cred. You could make the arguement that this post was filler or just there to make a post but I doubt mafia would filler early game because they know just as much as we do rn about who is what (in other words very little) so they need to use their time wisely in order to get as much information as possible before we as a Town lynch them.
this is waffly/overexplained again but absolutely lacks the substance you kinda wanna see from someone who's written out a detailed case then deleted it then rewritten it
i'd contest this is transparently posturing regardless of alignment; this could be expressed in about 3 sentences.
now this is overeacting, at this point nineja already settled and didn't push this train of thought anymore because maybe he realised how silly it was
In post 45, Nineja wrote:By the way, YellowSnow what do you mean by trying to gain newbie sympathy? It seemed like a random vote that you need to explain more imo I'd like more detail on what exactly you mean.
this was probably my favourite part of his post on initial read but going by reread i think it comes from either alignment pretty readily.
yellowsnow's response was good imo.
Junko: null comments about this one
In post 51, Nineja wrote: In post 48, computerfan0 wrote:I'll just vote for Nineja, as there is no real way to make an informed decision
VOTE: Nineja
Rather than just place a vote somewhere because info isn't coming to you it would be better used if you took that vote and went to go find info yourself. While I'm on the topic and since this is the first time that you've talked (that I know of if you talked before I'm sorry) computerfan0 What do you think of JunkoChan? I'd like to specifically hear what you have to say about them since that vote came at such a weird time.
reactionarily guilting computerfan0 for voting him is pretty null as well, but definitely doesn't give me reason to think he's town.
reaching out about junko is actually pretty good but the overjustification is incredibly stiff and i think the fact he's nervously swinging back to the vote tonally is guilty conscious indicative (sorry, this is a little bit tunnelly. but you're getting everything that's on my mind)
I dislike finding phrases like this in walls of texts because it feels like tw is setting up in case he has to say something like welp I guess I missed sorrylolz.. and ys this is actually tunnely and it's funny that it even talks about guilty concious
In post 124, Nineja wrote:I managed to make the same mistake twice and lose my typing by hitting preview and then going back, I remember most of my points so hopefully this comes out without sounding too off. I think that moony might be town and 1 mafia is on the wagon pushing for an easy day 1 lynch GL is null to me rn so its 50/50 between Worst and GW. Worst has been passive to me this game, sitting back asking questions but not really doing much else, feels like he's just going with the flow, which is scummy to me.
this post is like, incredibly wolfy i think
once again he's written this, deleted it & rewritten it so i'm gonna be coming from the pov that he's obviously spent a fair bit of time analysing this point.
"I think that moony might be town" is ok but i'm having a bit of a chicken/egg dilemma situation here. he's just randomly decided that moony is town and that there is scum on the wagon of {gl, tw, gw}. i can't discern if he scumreads {gl, tw, gw} or townreads moony. i very seriously can't find a reason to townread moony. the only part of his scumread cluster i agree with is potentially {gl} right now. the passivism point about me is...more or less fine, except i think his evasion of my questions only to turn around and position me like this in 124 is probably not coming from someone who's trying to sort me.
as an aside: i totally expect this to come from either paranoid town, or positioning wolves. positioning an IC as potential scum out of paranoia is a very common trait for newer townies, and i always encourage newbies to talk through this kind of paranoia because it helps move the game forward in a huge way.
but his reads here feel very convenient, in a way that feels like they're constructed to push his "moony is town, {gl, tw, gw} is scum" narrative.
This actually makes sense and it's what made me re-read all of this
In post 124, Nineja wrote:Worst whatever did happen to your JunkoChan scum lead you had earlier into the day. Do you town/null read them now or do you just find moony scummier? I'd like to hear an answer to this because I feel as town if you had a read on someone you'd try to get more out of them but you just kinda asked Junko a few questions and then that was it, the passiveness feels scummier here than it does anywhere else imo and to my knowledge he hasn't explained why he had the read or why he dropped/forgot about the read afterwards. If you did just show me the post I want to read over it.
again i like that he's asked me for an update on my junko read but strongly dislike that he answers the question for me while positioning me as scum, again.
from my experience with newbies tunnelling the IC based on experience/fear of quality scumgame, there's a kind of "oh fuck but what if they're just scum who's playing us all for chumps and we'll never be able to catch them?!" kind of mentality. i am dramatising this, but only to get my point across. it's a valid mindset and should always be talked through.
i find it ridiculous that he'd achieve a net IC-paranoia scumread and then assume that i'd be so ridiculous as scum to pretend to scumread Junko, and then randomly forget about it.
again i don't think this is the kind of question/self-answer that comes from someone who is trying to sort me. he's positioning me as scum.
true, for someone who says that he thinks and rethinks his post to then erase them by mistake to have yet another time to think this is at this point weird.
In post 127, Nineja wrote: In post 125, the worst wrote: In post 124, Nineja wrote:I think that moony might be town and 1 mafia is on the wagon pushing for an easy day 1 lynch GL is null to me rn so its 50/50 between Worst and GW.
What's making you think Moony might be town?
because I feel this is a scum lynching an easy day 1 lynch so Moony is probably town, I'm not saying he can't be scum, but this lynch looks a little too sus for me it just feels like atleast 1 scum is on this lynch. To answer your 2nd post (mobile sucks so i cant quote) GL can still be scum thats true however I personally find you 2 scummier and think the scum is more likely between you 2. I think GL should talk more though, would like more from them. I unlynched without lynching because I wanted to see your answer to my question first (about the JunkoChan read) before I lynched between you or GW.
to answer my earlier question: he has indeed randomly decided moony is locktown because he loosely scumreads someone on the wagon which he can't commit to. i think in writing this that he's basically saying i'm scum/maybe scum with GW but my lack of belief in his scumread of me is probably already pretty transparent.
i also find it pretty farcical that he has GuiltyLion in his "evil sucm voting moony" pile, yet when questioned defaults to null and seizes up, claiming that he nullreads GL and therefore will not be pushing him today. again this isn't coming from someone who's trying to sort GL. this is where i'm seeing signs of possible "scum/scum"/SvS interactions. it's pretty unnatural to be suspicious of GuiltyLion from a gamestate point of view, read his posts (which have been pointed!) and reach a point of "nah, I don't have a read on this dude" and then...not do anything about it.
Junko: this post can come from either scum or town tw
In post 162, Nineja wrote: In post 128, the worst wrote:could you give me a quick summary of your reads? (a tiered readlist would be perfect, otherwise just talk me through your current takes)
GrandWazoo / The Worst > computerfan0 > GuiltyLion > cjv > junko > YellowSnow > Moony
This is scummiest to towniest btw, I'll explain what I havent already stated before but if I miss something or someone wants more info on a read, you'll have to give me a day as I prob won't be active all of today besides rn and most of tomorrow I just got hit with some big projects in school that I need to get done now
compterfan0: never answered my question went quiet though this could just be noobie slot not knowing what to do still find his lynch on me came at a weird time which id why i asked the question and wanted the answer
yellow: seems to be helping town, good contributer,
the GW/TW thing is more or less fine and works out with his PoE.
i still don't understand what's caused him to shift GL up in his reads above computerfan0 and this doesn't feel real
cjv/junko/yellow slots are more or less fine (i think it's strange he feels the need to include the bit about yellow which just involves him randomly writing him off as town but..that's whatever i guess)
having moony as his strongest townread is absolutely, without a doubt, a posturing read. he's dropped his agenda (moony is town with scum tw and/or gw + town gl voting him). his read list is basically composed only to fit that agenda; it doesn't come from someone who's actually trying to work out who's more/less likely to be town or scum in this instance.
Junko: null again, i's good logic and goes in sync with what he already said
