A warlock, a werewolf, and a vampire... [Game Over]

[Lady 6]

we need 2 pairs that we are reasonably confident on

these should be outside the IC pair as he is likely dying in intermission

[Lady 6]

I am cool calling Sans 1 town now. I get why people are hesitant to call people town over such minor things but I really think scum would have thought about how they need to win and how they lose to town. It is at least something needed to be faked not something that came out naturally.

I also find these kind of "haha gotcha" reads tend to have higher accuracy then body of works reads since that is what scum tend to put in the effort to try and fake.

it's not a town slip

I do think Sans 1 was genuinely confused about how this setup works, but I think that easily happens as either alignment.

setup spec isn't really alignment indicative no matter how one is approaching it and it's a very easy thing for mafia to look townie behind

i do however think lady 7 as town is a good take?

[Lady 6]

Maybe I am wrong, but this doesn't strike me as the kind of setup where someone would try and fake a town slip.

I mean if you can convincingly fake a townslip as scum you always should. Probably more player dependent than anything.

it's player dependent but given the response of most of the playerlist, most wouldn't even see it as a townsliip to begin with

it's like

possible

but I do not share Lady 7's confidence on Sans

[Lady 6]

Also, mafia could get excluded from the dance today, so that's a factor. But the catch is that there could be a MM pairing, and then we lose atTMTTMMorTTMMetcAm I understanding the setup right?

yes but it is suboptimal for mafia to pair with each other

[Lady 6]

I think it would be hasty to call anyone strongly already, but I would agree that Lady 7 is townpings

I think that if she’s scum then she’s mechanically hurting herself for a lot of towncred compensation, which is possible but it probably wouldn’t be my first step and I don’t think it would for that many other players if they rolled VWW either

[Lady 6]

gentleman scarf person 6, I'm interested in any thoughts you have not related to setup or out of game stuff

[Lady 6]

I think a MM pairing would be unlikely for the scum because it's twice the risk.

yes

you can argue WIFOM but it literally doesn't change how the game is played at all except for making it one pair easier for town

assuming it's not getting down to 3 pairs with no mafia kills

[Lady 6]

gentleman scarf person 6, I'm interested in any thoughts you have not related to setup or out of game stuff

That's totally fair, I'm still figuring out the setup.

I'm getting a really strong townread on Gentleman 8 for some reason, not sure why. Other than that, no reads yet. I will keep y'all updated

no gentleman 8 is mafia

no thoughts on Lady 7's townslip idea?

[Lady 6]

I'm scum reading G6 if that's more exciting for you

[Lady 6]

I feel like I should be able to have some read on Lady 5!Anime-girl-with-blue0cat-ears by now but it is eluding me

[Lady 6]

I'm scum reading G6 if that's more exciting for you

You can be wolfy too

im clearly a seal

[Lady 6]

What's wrong with my bro Scarf man?

too explicitly focused on setup spec and ways to play around the setup

actively avoiding giving any real input on the game when I prodded them

has read the least genuine of all the setup spec I've read, makes me think mafia that wants to be involved in the early discussion without uh, actually being involved

there are a couple other slots sorta like this but Scarfy boi pinged me heaviest

[Lady 6]

why did you do that

[Lady 6]

then outted a townread....meh

check again.

[Lady 6]

Lady 3 lock town not changing

unfortunately paired with someone im not town reading

[Lady 6]

then outted a townread....meh

check again.

I did they were townreading G8

G8 is the IC

[Lady 6]

Lady 2

Where is your Lady Peach read coming from?

[Lady 6]

is this where is coast for 8 days until the first dance?

you would greatly increase our chance of winning if you become obv town before then

[Lady 6]

I kinda like Scarf man admitting he had no reads yet honestly. It'd be easy to BS one or two town pings as scum.

maybe

Scarf man could just be awkward town

but I can't see that until I get some real input

[Lady 6]

I personally want to pair with the ic so I can taste the sweet embrace of death

I am somewhat okay with that pairing

[Lady 6]

fyi im not scum reading Gent 9

but he's not town yet

[Lady 6]

I guess I don’t really see why it matters that much who I’m paired with? Like VWW are going to try to get paired with town anyway, and if my partner happens to be VWW then oh well, it was going to happen to someone? Also I think it would be easier to determine alignments in the PT if he is VWW

it's better to hold off because if we can pair strong consensus town with each other we have a greater chance of winning the game

if we pair off randomly to start and then oh it turns out all our strong town reads are paired with super scummy people

that's kind of an OOPS

[Lady 6]

like right now I wish soccer player and misty had fallen in love

I should start a matchmaking service

[Lady 6]

like right now I wish soccer player and misty had fallen in love

I should start a matchmaking service

I can dance with you!

buy me flowers?

[Lady 6]

I don't want G4/L6 together because they'll be my paranoia wolf pairing for the entire game.

is this more because of my half of the pairing or the gentleman's

[Lady 6]

for real though I have some people saying that optimal play is town should be paired with town and some people saying optimal play is scum should be paired with town and thats getting me confused.

I think it's better for town to be paired with town. Mafia only have one kill after all.
Pairing with someone just for the purpose of leaving the dance because you think they are scum doesn't seem smart to me.

also if you look at past dances

townies leaving the dance has a very high percentage of just flipping a town/town pair

I would like all the Gentleman to say they want to dance with me even if it's a lie.
pedit: Both of you seem very competent and a lot more serious than the rest of the thread and that kind of style always makes me think deepwolf. More a me thing than either of you but I'd probably vote you guys at one point if I ran out of wolf reads. Assuming I am not left to die in the first dance

it feels that I will always be a part of a paranoia pairing for you then

[Lady 6]

but what kind of flowers are they??

btw I would strongly prefer more of the gentleman to post before any more pairings happen

[Lady 6]

I actually would like Lady 1 with a towny gentleman that's not Gent 8

but I'm having trouble getting gent town reads

maybe football player 4

[Lady 6]

gentleman 8 and lady 8 is a fun pairing

[Lady 6]

that reads to me that you are scum reading l8

more extremely null reading with like

the lightest of town pings

Not sure I get why L8 thinks L6 is strong already

I lift weights

[Lady 6]

Call me whatever you want as long as it's not Peach >:(

lady daisy?

[Lady 6]

hey i actually really like lady 8 now

I am up on Gentleman 9

I don't town read Sans 1 and i don't really get why people are beyond a vague like of his posts

[Lady 6]

lady Rosalina,

what are your thoughts on the participants of this fine dance

[Lady 6]

I do not promise

[Lady 6]

I cant laugh at something that heartfelt

[Lady 6]

How do you think the gentlemen that haven't arrived are doing?

pregaming their hearts out

[Lady 6]

the gentlemen do have some urgency to shoot their shots

there are only 8 ladies compared to 9 men

[Lady 6]

the gentlemen do have some urgency to shoot their shots

there are only 8 ladies compared to 9 men

Are you implying something here?

not really beyond the fact that one gentleman isn't moving on

[Lady 6]

gent 1 has charisma and that seems to be the primary reason for town reading him so far

I want Lady 8 in a strong pairing, that may end up being G5

[Lady 6]

thoughts on gentleman 5, lady blue hair?

[Lady 6]

299 was the post that had me town reading Lady 8 due to the careful consideration in weighing the different gentlemen

it's not actually too necessary for her to do given she'll get an invite no matter what, but I think the effort put into it is genuine and shows she cares about producing a pro-town pairing

[Lady 6]

I think I'm in the same boat

I feel a lot more confident on ladies than I do gentlemen

it doesn't help that a few gentlemen haven't posted much of substance at all

[Lady 6]

You and Lady 4 are out of the others' leagues in that list

Quiet wolf the townie people are trying to play the game here.

I thought you hadn't done anything worth town reading yet

[Lady 6]

6 seal: at the time I arrived in thread, having read her posts, I wasn't a fan. Posts like 203, 211, 302 read as tonally scummy to me. I think there was a notable shift in the way they posted after I showed up in thread that makes me like them more; maybe I'm biased because I agreed with her.

G5 can you describe why these posts read tonally scummy to you? I'm not getting that part of your progression because I don't think I changed the way I was posting and my opinions stayed mostly the same.

In fact the posts you quoted have a scum read on G1 and a town read on L8, both opinions you entered the game with

[Lady 6]

I already have my 3 pairings I want in end game can I get a gg

I’m intrigued. Let’s discuss.

You/me
Lady 8/IC
Lady 4/Gent 5.

Thoughts?

mmm

Lady 8/IC is a bad pairing.

I actually quite like the proposed Lady 8/Gent 5 instead

also I lowkey selfishly want gent 4 because I think he's a very challenging sort and that sounds fun

[Lady 6]

what are your feelings on being the princess, lady 1?

[Lady 6]

Lady 8, who would you pick to pair with the prince?

[Lady 6]

I have paranoia about you <3

[Lady 6]

isn't playing what I believe is optimal scum play

I wouldn't be so quick on this simply because I don't think scum were all too active in the pre-dance of the last anonymous dance

that said I think L3 leans town but I'm nowhere near the same level of confidence

[Lady 6]

It sort of feels like L7, L8, G1, G4, G5, L6 are freezing out the rest of the game and just talking among each other

idk if that means that there is a cluster of scum in there, but it does make the game highly demotivating and uninteresting from the perspective of someone who is outside that, and also I'm somewhat doubtful that scum is entirely outside that grouping even though I don't have strong reads on anyone inside it

it's literally just because no one outside that group was posting for a long while

it's not a nefarious clique

I was trying to get a handle on you earlier, which I mentioned, but your posts continued to strike me as incredibly null

[Lady 6]

Planet 5 seems genuine in her frustrations here

yes... unsure those frustrations are AI however

[Lady 6]

I ask Lady 6 to the dance.

Definitely the cutest, most honorable and townie looking lady.

um I need more from you gorilla boy

[Lady 6]

Lady Earth 5, what leads you to think there's scum in the block you've mentioned?

[Lady 6]

or let me phrase that different, who would you pick for scum in that group if you had to?

[Lady 6]

Gentleman Gorilla 7, why should I accept your invite?

[Lady 6]

I'm very weirded out by Gentleman 2's pop-in a couple pages ago

especially since given his ISO he seems like one of the best candidates for first eviction

[Lady 6]

I think he's possibly a good candidate for *not* pairing up with anyone, but it remains to be seen what type of content G7 or G3 bring

if I had to pair him with a lady maybe Lady 2?

[Lady 6]

Just my general impressions. I'm excited to get to voting.

right but why should I pair with you specifically? What makes us pairing better than me or you pairing with anyone else in the game

[Lady 6]

I think he's possibly a good candidate for *not* pairing up with anyone, but it remains to be seen what type of content G7 or G3 bring

if I had to pair him with a lady maybe Lady 2?

Why Lady 2?
I don't really get why we'd single out Lady 2, over 5.gaia or 4.salad.
I find them all equally null to me.

I fine 5.gaia marginally more towny than the other two slots

Although I find it difficult to engage with her because she honestly has not produced much that's easy to engage with

Lady 4 and 2 could be swapped. I don't have a hard opinion on either as of yet. I think Lady 2 would be the harder read for me personally long term

[Lady 6]

I'm gonna start playing from this point on and not read back btw

Just my general impressions. I'm excited to get to voting.

right but why should I pair with you specifically? What makes us pairing better than me or you pairing with anyone else in the game

[Lady 6]

Do you have any inclination towards any particular gentleman so far, Lady Rosalina?

[Lady 6]

if anything I think L4's scum read on L2 is pretty surface level

like I don't have a solid read on the slot yet but looking over her ISO and saying it's generally surface level and scum motivated just feels like... a surface level reading? idk I'm more interested in specifics behind what produces that feeling

[Lady 6]

Gentleman 7, you should ask someone else to dance, I don't plan on accepting your invitation

[Lady 6]

I think that my ideal dance partner so far is Lady Seal.

I would enjoy this.

[Lady 6]

I like L4s progression so far and would like to hear more about what people think about Lady 7 because I know I'm obviously wrong on one of her/G1 but they're who I want to vote pretty easily at the moment due to the fact I think they're both wolfy

A lot of people agree that at the very least G1 shouldn't be town read. Where does your Lady 7 scum read stem from? That's the more unpopular take at present

[Lady 6]

299 was the post that had me town reading Ghost (L8) due to the careful consideration in weighing the different gentlemen

it's not actually too necessary for her to do given she'll get an invite no matter what, but I think the effort put into it is genuine and shows she cares about producing a pro-town pairing

I think your interpretation is off. That post doesn't read to me like a careful consideration of options when it comes to gentlemen; I see it more as just a readslist on every gentleman who had posted at the time. That distinction might seem meaningless to you, but I think it matters for the point you're making—a careful consideration of which gentleman would result in the most pro-town pairing I might consider town-indicative, but viewed as a simple readslist that point goes away. In fact, in my experience I've found that readslists structured in a manner that take effort to mention every single player (or at least every player that has posted so far) often come from scum forcing themselves to give reads.

This isn't to say that I take that post as being hugely scum-indicative, or even all that moderately scum-indicative. I just disagree with your interpretation of it as a major point towards Lady 8 being town.

yeah rereading there might some inferences I made there that actually aren't present in her post. later on she specifically spoke about not wanting to be with G8 because that would be "anti-town," but that could easily be scum motivated as someone else pointed out and it's the only direct comment she makes about wanting to make pro-town pairings.

I want to hear your elaborated scum read at some point

although there might not be much of a point during pre-dance

[Lady 6]

I would prefer Gent 7 left out over Gent 2 btw

I've been thinking about it and I think Gent 2 going after Gent 4 rather than searching for a partner on popping in is slightly more likely to be town than scum

[Lady 6]

It sort of feels like L7, L8, G1, G4, G5, L6 are freezing out the rest of the game and just talking among each other

idk if that means that there is a cluster of scum in there, but it does make the game highly demotivating and uninteresting from the perspective of someone who is outside that, and also I'm somewhat doubtful that scum is entirely outside that grouping even though I don't have strong reads on anyone inside it

it's literally just because no one outside that group was posting for a long while

it's not a nefarious clique

I was trying to get a handle on you earlier, which I mentioned, but your posts continued to strike me as incredibly null

Okay, but I was around at the beginning when it started and it really felt like it didn’t matter if I was there or not which is part of why I left to do other things. I don’t think I really implied that it was a nefarious clique, but I kind of see how you could get that reading. But i guess i more meant that i see it as fairly likely that scum could be in there and trying to keep discussion focussed on the group to freeze out other slots. Although now I write that down it feels silly. I guess maybe it makes more sense that scum would not want to risk a townbloc forming early and would have a lot of incentive to be trying to infiltrate that?

I think it’s a shame that you didn’t engage with me more if you thought my posting was null. I feel like this is happening repeatedly, fairly or not, that people are saying things that make it really hard to go any further. “Your posts continued to strike me as incredibly null” — okay, so why not do anything to try and rectify that?

I like, have? I think we've just missed each other in threads a lot because I've directed posts at you but I don't think you've ever been around to answer them.

I understand why you were frustrated and I'm sorry for contributing to that at all

generally when I'm playing I focus on what's in front of me, especially for a game of this pace, and I had kind of thrown you in a "sort later" pile until I had either the capacity to go back and figure you out or could interact with you more

[Lady 6]

I like L4s progression so far and would like to hear more about what people think about Lady 7 because I know I'm obviously wrong on one of her/G1 but they're who I want to vote pretty easily at the moment due to the fact I think they're both wolfy

A lot of people agree that at the very least G1 shouldn't be town read. Where does your Lady 7 scum read stem from? That's the more unpopular take at present

A lot of Lady 7s posting feels planned. At first she said she wasn't going to post in her PT and changed her mind and then made a big deal of 'oh I have paranoia on a lot of these players! Paranoia this and that!' It feels like a way to leave her options open. I also don't like her talking about how scum want to pair with Lady 8 as if to set up a mislynch down the line. There's more to the read but this is based off memory and not iso diving

Like, Lady

Peach

Rosalina, I also got sort of the opposite impression from her posts? The paranoia mentioned reminds me of this post: viewtopic.php?p=12020199#p12020199 which I thought seemed written on the spot and towny, regardless of how serious or not it was

[Lady 6]

I’d like people to at least *think* about who I should pair with, by the way

Who do you think you'd work best with?

I think a Lady 1/Gent 6 pair would work well if they like each other and Lady 1 doesn't want to be the princess. That would leave you available to be the princess but if that's not appealing to you I'd rather not see G2 dead right now

[Lady 6]

I am not defending you im trying to understand Lady 1's read

[Lady 6]

Oh Lady 5/Gent 4 is a potentially a good pair

Is Gent 4 still your preference Lady 5? Who do you think you should be paired with?

[Lady 6]

Is Gent 4 still your preference Lady 5? Who do you think you should be paired with?

I mean "Lady 5 is your preference still Gent 4"

I'm typing too fast

[Lady 6]

Is Gent 4 still your preference Lady 5? Who do you think you should be paired with?

I mean "Lady 5 is your preference still Gent 4"

I'm typing too fast

I would want to double check, G4’s lack of interest in me is a turn off

Can I say that I honestly think I’d prefer G8 of all of them so far? I think I’d be reading him as town even if he wasn’t confirmed

Sadly, I’d rather dance with a lady but due to the structure of the game I think I’ll be choosing a least bad option (unless G8 asks me, which I’d be happy with)

Personally, if I had complete control I'd probably put you with G8 and then have Lady 1/Gent 6 pair up. And then Gent 4/Lady 2, and maybe Gent 2/Lady 4? Those last ones are a bit tentative but I think those are my pairings.

[Lady 6]

I would prefer Gent 7 left out over Gent 2 btw

I've been thinking about it and I think Gent 2 going after Tennis (G4) rather than searching for a partner on popping in is slightly more likely to be town than scum

I could agree with this.

I personally don't think it is townie to randomly call someone scum with no reasoning.

It's more that he chose to do that over anything else when he popped in

[Lady 6]

Is Gent 4 still your preference Lady 5? Who do you think you should be paired with?

I mean "Lady 5 is your preference still Gent 4"

I'm typing too fast

I would want to double check, G4’s lack of interest in me is a turn off

Can I say that I honestly think I’d prefer G8 of all of them so far? I think I’d be reading him as town even if he wasn’t confirmed

Sadly, I’d rather dance with a lady but due to the structure of the game I think I’ll be choosing a least bad option (unless G8 asks me, which I’d be happy with)

Personally, if I had complete control I'd probably put you with G8 and then have Lady 1/Gent 6 pair up. And then Gent 4/Lady 2, and maybe Gent 2/Lady 4? Those last ones are a bit tentative but I think those are my pairings.

Why Lady 1 and Gent 6?

Mostly for the reason Gent 4 stated. They are also roughly at the same level of town read for me

[Lady 6]

I like a Lady 5/Gent 8 pair more and more if they are both amenable to that

it's entirely up to gent 8 in the end though

[Lady 6]

it's impossible to tell anyone's alignment from the pre-dance. Everyone with strong opinions at the moment are either arrogant or lying. I don't plan on focusing on trying to make any sort of claim that I know anything until we can start voting. I thought that was obvious. Or apparently there are some oracles among us.

yeah but you gotta give some sort of evidence that you'll be a good dance partner or worthwhile to have around

[Lady 6]

Argh, I have to run. I’ll be back in an hour or so I think — L6 I’d really like to talk to you more before you accept the proposal from G3

I'll hold off for now, though I do plan on accepting.

What specifically did you want to talk about?

[Lady 6]

I rather troll lady 6

that's not very gentlemanly

[Lady 6]

This is the easiest phase of the game for scum to act like town.

I completely expect all the current reads to be reversed like a sleeve after we see the first flip.

Suspect the gents being townread for no reason

who is being townread for no reason?

[Lady 6]

Lady 6 don't break my friend Gent 7s heart. You should dance with him

I don't think we would work well together

[Lady 6]

I plan on accepting Gent 3's invite

[Lady 6]

but I'm holding off because Lady 5 wanted to talk with me more

[Lady 6]

but I'm holding off because Lady 5 wanted to talk with me more

Hi, I’m back! So yeah, I wanted to talk to you about it because you’re my top TR and therefore I’m quite invested in seeing you paired with someone else I’m townreading and while I think G3 is pretty fine, I’m bothered by their attempt to leave out G6 who I actually think is pretty towny

Who would you most prefer to see me with?

And how did I become your top town read?

[Lady 6]

Scum wants to pair up as soon as possible. Gent 5 or Gent 9 comes into mind.

Yeah but why are the ladies excluded from this
Lady 3 was given a pass form everyone for accepting so early and I think it was scummy

Funnily enough, I just realized that I don't like any of the pairs we have so far.

Who does?

There are less ladies than men, meaning ladies don't have to be quite as survivalistic in the pre-dance

[Lady 6]

I pretty much agree with G3's reasoning on G6, in that my mild reasons for town reading G2 and G7 are stronger than my even milder reasons for seeing G6 as town.

[Lady 6]

G6, what are your main reads/takes at the moment?

[Lady 6]

I agree that Guy 2 might be town, however his style does give me some pause because his behavior could be a player thing instead of an alignment thing if that makes sense.

Like he's *so* off the wall it might just be down to the player.

[Lady 6]

I'd also add it's rather hard, at least for me, to get strong scum reads at this point in the game. Most players can and choose to play in a fairly lowkey fashion (no one even has to vote yet), and that makes it hard to get positive reasons to scum read someone. The best thing to do imo is to just look at who isn't doing town things.

that's probably why usually one of the low posters ends up going out in pre-dance

[Lady 6]

Gentleman 3, I accept your offer to dance.

[Lady 6]

Okay, L6, I think my concerns are assuaged

I'm still curious what bumped me up to your top town read?

[Lady 6]

Seal lady 6, did you not want to accept gorilla boy g7 invitation because you thought he was scummy and needs to leave this predance? Or did you not like the way he proposed to you flippantly

Primarily, it was the fact that he wasn't cooperating with me. I wasn't entirely opposed to the option at first, especially because I'd started to not feel as hot for Gent 4, and I tried to figure out what his plan or his thoughts were here and here. He only ever ended up answering in an extremely surface level way, and I was looking for some sign that he'd A. be a good partner to sort with in a PT, or B. had a pro-town mindset. I don't necessarily think he's scummy or that his flippant proposal was scummy, but I didn't really think it was a good move and from my questioning of him it also appeared to be a shallow move.

it's impossible to tell anyone's alignment from the pre-dance. Everyone with strong opinions at the moment are either arrogant or lying. I don't plan on focusing on trying to make any sort of claim that I know anything until we can start voting. I thought that was obvious. Or apparently there are some oracles among us.

Then he said this which is just a mafia philosophy I vehemently disagree with, and that feels like we'll have very different methods of sorting / won't see eye to eye with each other on a lot of things. That's why I ultimately wrote him off.

[Lady 6]

Gent 2 I don't really want to die and would like if he asked someone out instead of sacrificing himself for ??? some reason?

[Lady 6]

She feels manipulative to me, it's hard to describe.I think we are falling into a trap of only thinking the low effort player slots are scum

I don't know if you were implying that I was creating this trap narrative you mention here, but I have specifically spoken out against this. I've put forward we're probably more likely to scum read the less active slots, whether or not that's accurate. I'm also not confident any of the current low posters in G2/L3/G7 (maybe G1) are scum.

[Lady 6]

be a good partner to sort with in a PT

I feel very conflicted here, because from my mindset after rereading Skyrim g5 posts, it is that you want to dance with a good partner to SORT rather than SORT WITH.

mmmm the two are not mutually exclusive

Ideally, I want both.

G3 fulfills both and it's why I've been so excited to dance with him. I am not certain he is town but I quite like his posting and think his analysis so far has been *very good*, such that if he's scum I would like to get up close and personal in order to find out, and if he's town I will have a very lovely sorting partner.

[Lady 6]

I guess I just don't feel very convinced that out of everyone, you particular, as town player would discount your neighbor directly to masonry

I have the mistake of discounting my neighbor directly to masonry in a mafia game before and it bit me in the ass. I don't plan to make that mistake again.

However, I would like my neighbor to be someone I can at least somewhat trust to sort with me and try to solve the game with. I'm never going to absolutely trust my partner and they would definitely be a slot I reevaluate with scrutiny if the game drags on.

[Lady 6]

No I'm not saying you have a narrative

Your play makes sense but it's a way I'd expect scum to play

i.e. safe and slow and getting townread

ah ok

yeah I can be somewhat of a safe player

[Lady 6]

I might like Gent 3 more than Seal Lady 6 now. I think the pair is fine enough but recently I've been wondering if my Seal Lady 6 townread stemmed too much from her early townread on me.

do you have other reasons to town read me than me town reading you?

I feel like that should be your answer

[Lady 6]

i'm also partially intrigued that she hasn't once suggested partnering with me

not sure if she's worried i'll leave if that happened (safe assumption) or just thinks other people are better? hard to say since i can't tell what criteria she's been using to think about partners

I'm assuming this is about me

part of it is you haven't been around as much when I have I think, like this is the first time I actually have reason to interact with you

part of it is having a conf-town partner kind of takes part of the allure of the dance away

and then another part of it is very selfish in that I don't want to die early in the game

I would have partnered with you had most people or even you I suppose thought it best, but you never showed any interest in me and you didn't strike me as someone I was going to especially gel with

[Lady 6]

Looping back, I don't like that long post man G3 said he didn't like any of the pairings

Why not?

[Lady 6]

I am now afraid for Lady 5 pairing with G8 because I town read her pretty strongly and don't want her to die, but that might still be the best pair overall. I also wouldn't say no to Lady 1/G8.

[Lady 6]

she's just one of the few ladies who hasn't engaged with me at all (up until now)

in general I also don't see the value in engaging with the IC unless they have specific questions about/for me

[Lady 6]

It doesn't make sense based on the particular circumstance of G5 pairing with L8

I'm not quite seeing the connection

[Lady 6]

Can someone remind me who started spreading paranoia on L8ghost scum

G3 was the first to openly scum read (or not town read) the slot, that's part of why he made the "didn't like any of the pairs" post.

[Lady 6]

I mean if I don't get along with my partner it's likely I'm just not using my neighborhood as much

maybe that's petty but I feel like it's directly advantageous to pair up with someone you get along with to produce as much content / get as much a chance to solve or read each other as possible

[Lady 6]

oh, before i forget lady 6, could you give me 2-3 names for both the ladies and gentlemen that you currently think are most likely to be scum?

the why isnt so important but you can talk about why if you really want

Lady 4, Gentleman 4, Gentleman 6

[Lady 6]

I like a Lady 5/Gent 8 pair more and more if they are both amenable to that

it's entirely up to gent 8 in the end though

I am now afraid for Lady 5 pairing with G8 because I town read her pretty strongly and don't want her to die, but that might still be the best pair overall. I also wouldn't say no to Lady 1/G8.

specifically which posts in this 300-post gap changed your read from whatever it was to i guess strongly reading her as town?

it was specifically her progression on me in these posts:

Spoiler:

L6 is also null after checking iso

I like, have? I think we've just missed each other in threads a lot because I've directed posts at you but I don't think you've ever been around to answer them.

I understand why you were frustrated and I'm sorry for contributing to that at all

generally when I'm playing I focus on what's in front of me, especially for a game of this pace, and I had kind of thrown you in a "sort later" pile until I had either the capacity to go back and figure you out or could interact with you more

Okay, I’m sorry if I missed them, and it’s cool, like I said, I don’t think it was necessarily intentional on the part of anyone (unless there is scum in there in which case it’s still probably more s matter of infiltrating/disrupting rather than trying to create a sense of alienation)

Okay, so can we talk now? Who do you think I should be thinking about pairing with?

I invite Lady 6 to dance

.


For some reason I can't shake the thought that the best partner for Gentleman 8 would be Lady 5, although I'm not sure I could really elaborate why.

Why is it that people seem to think that Lady 1 should be paired with him (if anyone actually thinks that)? Is our best metric for the partner of the IC someone who is townread, but not too townread? Because under those lines, I might actually put forward Lady 2 instead.

I'm also impartial to the plan that Gentleman 8 put forward himself of simply choosing an obscure townread that he feels he can hard defend. It's really up to him in the end regardless, unless we plan on leaving out our IC.

L6 can we talk a bit more before you accept this?

but I'm holding off because Lady 5 wanted to talk with me more

Hi, I’m back! So yeah, I wanted to talk to you about it because you’re my top TR and therefore I’m quite invested in seeing you paired with someone else I’m townreading and while I think G3 is pretty fine, I’m bothered by their attempt to leave out G6 who I actually think is pretty towny

Okay, L6, I think my concerns are assuaged

It was a couple of things, but I really liked 762 as I think my tone could very easily have been construed as aggressive and I don’t really think I was in a particularly good position in thread at the time, which I think you could have capitalised on if you were scum to push me or just brush me off

Instead I felt like you gave a very measured response and then helped in the ways I’d asked to bring me into the game. I’m aware that you might be scum who saw the opportunity for a pocket, but I generally try to bank that sort of paranoia for later. I also don’t think your initial response to me where the words “nefarious clique” were used is the way you’d start off if you were pocketing me

Then on top of that I liked the way you approached L1 and got a bit iffy about how you were trying to understand her read and not trying to defend L7

[Lady 6]

I like L3 quite a bit. I've actually slowly been liking the L3/G9 pair more and more. Overall, I probably have more questions about G9's alignment but they are both decently in the green for me.

[Lady 6]

L2, who are your scum reads? If you have any

[Lady 6]

I think they both could be town, but I feel stronger about G2.

Which slot do you think would be easier for you to sort, Lady 4?

[Lady 6]

The important thing is to identify the winning town-town pair.

Who do you think that is?

[Lady 6]

G5 L8 is town-town

L5 I can see as town.

Why do you scumread me L6?

I uh, don't?

I thought #1398 was pretty LAMIST but I don't have any explicit scum read on you

I just find more reason for G2 to be town than you

[Lady 6]

gentleman 3 came in with a bluster,
scum read miss. 8 though it didn't perturb her,
but he was a replace,
are his reads out of place?
I will just wait and hope he's a dancer

[Lady 6]

that was bad

[Lady 6]

roses are red
g7 is dead
g2 should get a chance
and live through the pre-dance!

[Lady 6]

roses are red
lady 3 is a meanie

[Lady 6]

Yeah and what's a good way to secure the pair? AtE and defeatism

Well it clearly isn't working...
Would be nice to hear something from Gentleman 2.

Really still not seeing L3 towniness
I can't get past the fact that Lilith is way better than to accept that dance so fast

Lady 4, excepting the early dance proposal accept by Lilith/OG L3, what strikes you as scummy about L3? Or is that the crux of what bothers you about the slot

[Lady 6]

This mafia game is giving me false hope by actually being really fun.

I could yell at you if you'd like

[Lady 6]

There once was a darling Miss Seal
Who gentlemen pursued with a zeal
In came a Detective
With a different perspective
And the Lady's heart he did steal.

fuck that's good

[Lady 6]

nah gentleman 7 invited lady 4

his whole "I should die" thing is just words

[Lady 6]

I mean I honestly think L4 has more scum equity than either G2 or G3

but I think it's better overall to just join with her and then try to get a read on her in PT

we can always eliminate the pair later if needed and we get more information out of that than a triple leave this early on

[Lady 6]

I mean I honestly think L4 has more scum equity than either G2 or G3

but I think it's better overall to just join with her and then try to get a read on her in PT

we can always eliminate the pair later if needed and we get more information out of that than a triple leave this early on

G2 or G7*

[Lady 6]

could i get an idea of 2 non-me pairs people want to see live until endgame btw?

even if you've recently stated it and even if it might change pending flips/first dance/etc, just looking for a rough idea of the consensus at the moment

gentleman 9/lady 3
gentleman 1/lady 7

excluding myself

[Lady 6]

also I accept gentleman 3

since I think fakegod didn't see my first acceptance

[Lady 6]

excluding myself

why?

from my perspective my pair is potentially a good end game pair because I know I'm town and I think there's pretty good odds G3 is too

but I also recognize there's a decent amount of paranoia about me/my pair and it'll be more effective longterm if I can identify two other T/T pairs to case for end game. I'm more confident I can keep them alive by casing them well and then maybe flipping before then

of course my ideas for T/T pairs are still somewhat shallow right now, but those are my best guesses as of right now

[Lady 6]

i wasn't really asking who you think other people think are town

if you think your partner is town, that would obviously be one of the endgame pairs youd want (from your pov)

lady 3 leaving out her own pair is understandable since she is not so confident on her partner

there's not much point leaving out your own pairing if you are confident in your read though

*shrug*

my problem with G3 has something to do with what I think you said earlier? In that a lot of his analysis (while I think very good) could easily come from reading through the game before replace in.

I'm not gonna reach uber confidence on him until I can sort with him in a PT and see how his reads have progressed since he replaced in

[Lady 6]

G6, can you elaborate on your G1 town read?

[Lady 6]

it is easy to get town read replacing into a scum slot if you simply read the entire game beforehand

I think there are some reasons to town read G3 completely detached from the opinions he had coming into the game, but regardless his alignment will become more clear after this phase is over

[Lady 6]

Hi Lady 8!

Can you talk about your read on me please? Looking through your ISO you've hedged a lot on my slot and I'm curious if you have any significant thoughts about my slot / my pairing

[Lady 6]

Hi Seal Lady 6! Yup I'm in full uncertainty mode on you. I don't have much of a read on your more recent posting, im sorry I dont have muchI think your endgame pair picks (G9/L3 + G1/L7) are decent, although i think I like my own pairing and possibly L1/G6 for consideration as well, I don't quite have G9 and G1 as high as you I take it

That's fine! I wouldn't expect you to have much of a read on my more recent stuff. I think most of my AI stuff was earlier in the game. I was just curious if anything had developed on me.

I like L1/G6 decent enough, my only problem is sorting out G6. His tone is pleasant enough; I just get queasy whenever I try to town bin him. Do you have specific reasons for town reading him?

I also almost included you and G5 in my end game pairs, but you are the slot that holds me back on that. Scrolling through your ISO, I find it very hard to figure out what your opinions are on things. Your posts are pleasant enough to read on their own but the way you state your reads is incredibly hedgey and non-comital. Without going through your posts again, I can't really remember what your strongest reads are besides the ones you just mentioned. I don't mean that so much as an attack because it could totally just be a me thing not absorbing your posts in the right way, and your style might just be hedgey in general. But I'm struggling to find much town about your hedginess even though your tone makes me want to believe you're town.

What would you say are your strongest takes/reads as of right now? I don't need you to make anything up if you don't have much I just want to know what is at the top of your mind when you think about this game.

Also, why are you in full uncertainty mode about me? Is it like a "there's town and scum here" or a "nothing AI here" deal?

[Lady 6]

I just get queasy

Not my intention, but I don't think directly engaging you on this is going to change your feelings on the matter. If you feel otherwise, let me know.

I feel like this game is a major mish-mash of play styles and finding your ideological twins is going to be an important part of the game state as time goes on... even if those players are not your dance partner. Or in some cases, especially because they aren't.

I feel like I can't get what I need from you in the pre-dance. I want to see how you vote and where you push

[Lady 6]

I tend to agree with the townblocking > scumhunting, even in normal games

but there's still something to be said for watching how people react to pressure and wagons and I feel like there's a few slots that just talking to isn't going to get me much at this stage

[Lady 6]

Thanks for writing all that, that was helpful

Why are you leaning town on G9?

[Lady 6]

oh lovely

I actually didn't expect that

[Lady 6]

Me, but I don’t see why that’s sus

More sus the players suggesting G7 be paired up over me.

Yes, although you’re suspicious too

I think L4 might be the more suspicious one here

[Lady 6]

My PT is locked

[Lady 6]

Someone tell me I did a good job please.
My ego depends on it.

u did gud

[Lady 6]

Fakegod you have a G3-L3 pairing showing in the OP

[Lady 6]

He's saying where we should look, he's not drawn any conclusions I believe

[Lady 6]

Hm.
You're not explaining what is scummy about Lady 4 though. You are just explaining why kicking her partner might be better.

I just still think G2 is marginally towny and I... don't really know if Lady 4 is yet. I need to take a closer look at her history / G7's history though.

[Lady 6]

And like why does that make sense if he’s scum and you’re town?

I do think G7 was just going for the "look like he doesn't care so people think he's towny" strategy and I don't think that's very dependent on G2's alignment.

[Lady 6]

I don't think G6 assuming G7 was going to be gone from the game pretty soon is scum-indicative. If anything he would've included him as a scum read for extra cred.

[Lady 6]

I like Lady 2 and Lady 8 more post flip

[Lady 6]

I'll be honest I am starting to just think L2 is scum, I am not actually sure what they've been doing this game.
Sorry G4.Tennis if I end up doing you dirty down the line.

But why would this make L2 scum?

Honestly, I would only look at that pairing for G4.

[Lady 6]

what's up lady 1

[Lady 6]

I'm making a reads list to organize my own thoughts because I feel somewhat muddled on every slot right now. I don't really know where to start but I'm just gonna start with the strongest things that come to mind.

=====

Gentleman 3

revealed something to me in our Dance PT that makes me favor him as town. It was something I was specifically looking for regarding how his reads progressed from when he replaced in, and the way he phrased it to me and told me specifically before telling the public thread shifts him towards town. He also didn't appear to be specifically trying to pocket me with this, as he basically confronted me in our PT saying that he's considering a world where I was scum with G7 and trying to give ways for him to appear more towny so that someone *else* might have been more willing to pair with him. He quoted these posts as examples. He also said it's possible I was just trying to read G7 better, but the way he's been transparent in our Dance so far leans town for me. And it's stuff that he wouldn't have come into the game with. I don't think G3 wants to share the specific read that I'm talking about here just yet, but I'm sure he will soon.

I definitely understand why people are scum reading or put off by his more analytical "fluffy" posts. By play style, it seems like Gentleman 3 is someone who hyper-focuses on why people are scum reading him and tends to argue with or correct that if thinks the reasons are bad. I know a lot of town players that do this so I don't think it is necessarily AI by itself, but it seems like the type of defensiveness that people get annoyed or tend to scum read.

That's all I have on Gentleman 3 right now. I'm still not super super confident he's town because I believe him to be a good player, so I understand the paranoia there, but so far I think his progressions since he's replaced in (on me and on another slot) have been towny. I think both of us are somewhat wary of the other though.

=====

Gentleman 2

... ugh. I think he's town still. I don't think if he is scum with Gentleman 7 that the scenario that occurred in this game EVER happens. Gentleman 7 hyper focused on asking me out, and then defaulted to a weird LAMISTY, martyr strategy. Gentleman 2 basically also played the suicide route and didn't ask Lady 4 out until multiple people directly asked him to. I find it unlikely that more than one scum would go for a more laidback strategy like this and risk them both being left out in the first dance, especially since neither Gentleman appears to have either the time or style to keep up with the thread / get town read.

I can also track what I think is a towny mindset from Gentleman 2. Whereas Gentleman 7 was more explicit in "not caring" what happens, Gentleman 2 seems to actually care about how the game goes despite his other attitudes. From the beginning of the game he's been quite outspoken about his opinions and pursued these interests (such as "voting" G4) instead of looking for a potential partner.

His view that the early paired couples are wolves and the last people left unpaired are all town isn't a philosophy I inherently agree with, but it's definitely something that I see coming from town a lot. Especially from townies that are often perceived as more "LHF," calling out deepwolves and getting paranoid about consensus pairs / townreads is something that comes from town all the time. This is why his posts about triple leaving and G7/L4 being an endgame pair don't bother me at all. It's all consistent with what his philosophy has been since the start of the game.

I assumed we should all just be town who wolves left behind for their amusement.

=====

As for Lady 4

, I have come around to thinking she might be town. Gentleman 3 made a good point in that the G7 town flip probably points to Lady 4 town, in that pairing with G7 at least denies more information and gets town shaky about eliminating the consensus lower slots. However, surprisingly this is still the half of the pair I am less confident on.

Generally, her reactions to having to pair with either G2 or G7 and wanting to stay in the game longer read pretty genuine to me. There's also a specific post she made early on that bothered me at first for being really bad, but coming back to I think is a pretty towny bad. The post I refer to is #421 where Lady 4 makes this long winded kind of nonsensical read on Lady 2 (which she later clarifies the wording of, don't mean to be insulting here I think it's just a badly worded post) and then continues this tunnel for the rest of the game. The way she states it here is non-specific and kinda fluffy, but she follows it up by calling it a strong read. To me, this post lacks the self-awareness scum usually has, and instead reads like town who just figured something out and feels good about it.

Specifically, I also think the line about "the Rosalina/Peach shitck" being "a facade" is an extremely weak point that town makes because their confbiasing a scum read. I think scum would read it as the joke it was and not *generally* not have the confidence to read into it so much or have it as an element of her read. That said, Lady 4 is still only a lean town. I haven't seen too much else from her that hard pings town from me. But given the G7 flip and my read on G2, the Gentleman 2/Lady 4 pair isn't a pair I want leaving immediately.

=====

This leaves a bunch of other pairs that I unfortunately don't have any strong T/T feelings about. Basically, I town read almost all the ladies, which feels weird, and it's definitely not good that I'm mixed or null on all of G1/G4/G5/G6. The one I most feel like I should be able to get a good handle and want to town read is G5. So I'd like to talk to you, G5, next time we're both around. Specifically, I'm curious about your read on me and if its changed at all after G7's flip. You've asked a few people what they about G7 asking me out early in the game. What is your conclusion about that?

Lady 2

is a scum read I don't really get. My reasons for town reading her are more nebulous than other slots, but so do the reasons for scum reading her it seems. She has come under a lot of criticism for "not really doing anything," which has two problems. 1. That's not inherently scummy. It makes it easy to feel good about getting rid of a slot if you believe that but effort isn't the greatest of alignment tells. I also tend to disagree that she hasn't done anything. 2. What is scum actually doing if Gentleman 7 is barely trying with a gambit and Lady 2 is not really bussing in any hard way beyond calling a garbage take from G2 towny?

Lady 8

, I've been feeling much better about recently, which is why I would love to get a better handle on G5.

I'm omitting my read on Lady 5 for the time being.

Lady 1

is the only Lady that I don't outright town read. I'm fairly mixed on her. I'm kind of inclined to town read her opposition to some of the more consensus reads throughout the game, but that's about all I've got for her. I'm particularly curious where her L7/G1 read went? She suddenly stopped wanting to vote there and I didn't catch why.

I just need Gentleman 1 and Gentleman 6 to post more, I think. I had what I thought was a town read on G1 for a moment, but it evaporated in my brain somewhere.

=====

Gentleman 9

is the closest thing I have to harder scum read right now. I initially thought his dance proposal so early on was relatively town indicative, but I think his style is just a little more aggressive than most which would be a mistake to town read. His insistence that G3 is scummy for being unhappy that his town reads weren't pairing with his town reads is... a logical argument I do not follow. I also didn't really think his attack on Gentleman 5 earlier in the game was very believable. Like I don't think it takes a lot of legwork to understand why G5 might've thought L8 was someone he could A. sort well, B. get along with, C. have some doubts about, and D. value that criteria enough to make a proposal when he did. Like it almost seems in both of these instances that G9 is attacking players for not aligning in philosophy with him, but instead he's framing it as if they have inconsistencies in their play and are scummy for it. It's a weird twisting of facts that makes it seem more like scum pulling things out of the air to form scum reads than town just feeling strongly about how the game should be played. Normally, I'd be more apt to town read aggressive play that seems genuine, but given Gentleman 9 entered the game with an aggressive play, and his arguments aren't actually all that towny outside of just being aggressive, I lean this slot scum.

But Lady 3, I feel very good about being town which is unfortunate.

=====

I think that sums up my positions right now.

tl;dr: I understand walls are annoying, if you have questions about my reads I'll answer them in a more succinct manner. but this is where you'll find most of the detail. overall, my general feelings right now is that I wish the gentleman were more sortable

[Lady 6]

So I'd like to talk to you, G5, next time we're both around. Specifically, I'm curious about your read on me and if its changed at all after G7's flip. You've asked a few people what they about G7 asking me out early in the game. What is your conclusion about that?

Lady 1 is the only Lady that I don't outright town read. I'm fairly mixed on her. I'm kind of inclined to town read her opposition to some of the more consensus reads throughout the game, but that's about all I've got for her. I'm particularly curious where her L7/G1 read went? She suddenly stopped wanting to vote there and I didn't catch why.

quoting the parts I want specific people to see and respond to

[Lady 6]

Also G5, I want to know how your read on L8 has progressed since you've paired with her.

[Lady 6]

I can't help but shake the feeling that Gentleman 4 is player that I know and also specifically one that I am terrible at reading and it's throwing me a little bit

[Lady 6]

It's not impossible for all the scum to be in the gents.

True, it just feels off because it makes it very hard to get pairs where I feel equally good about both members

[Lady 6]

Also G5, I want to know how your read on L8 has progressed since you've paired with her.

I don't see a connection between Gent 7 and Ghosty 8, so the flip itself doesn't change anything for me.

There is one part where after he starts using AtE/Giving up he says our pair and the ic pair are both town, but I don't value that very highly.

She is definitely putting in a lot of effort to read other people in the pt, and I do not see an agenda.

Yeah I wasn't so much talking about how G7 changed your read and just if how things have gone in the PT / what you've seen in thread

[Lady 6]

I think for the most part I agree with a lot of what you say. Most of your reads have been fairly consensus though I think so that's not too hard. I think the way you ask questions and what you ask is decent. There are posts like

#1677

that gut ping me as town.

But I feel like there's nothing specific I can point and just say confidently, "aw yeah that's town." Honestly, I think it's mostly just me doubting myself and being paranoid because if you're town your pair is super strong imo and should be endgame

[Lady 6]

What do you think of Gentleman 9's push on L1 and her reaction to that?

[Lady 6]

Spoiler:

maybe probably its just as obvious as l1 cry

VOTE: L1-G6

i also didn't like l1's princess crown stuff it felt like she was trying way too hard to pair with the prince g8

Why would scum Cry Lady 1 want to get with the prince?

safest partner + this prince reads very kind and doesn't feel like would leave his own ball

I don't get G9.

I didn't mind pairing with the prince but I openly said I don't want to at the same time. If he was wolf reading me for that I'd understand, but he's wolf reading me for something that just...didn't happen.

I think it's actually relatively townie?

That is a good sequence for Lady 2, yeah

I'm starting to not get Gent 9's takes much.

Does Gent 9 go out of the gate swinging at me though as a wolf? A slot that seemed to be mostly townread

this stuff specifically

[Lady 6]

can you elaborate on your l1 town read?

[Lady 6]

And I think G3 is a good player to understand the nuance of town scum matches are not necessarily bad, but he's lumping them all trivially in the same bucket

I-yes

I don't think he's ever denied that

*obviously* they are not *necessarily* bad

but in a game where your early priority is to town block and in fact finding a few T-T pairs is a win condition all on its own, it is not optimal from your POV for one of your town reads to pair with not a town read. It also makes getting rid of that pair harder / less optimal if that scum read persists because one half of the pair is a town read

like why are you being so obtuse about this

[Lady 6]

The fact that you are just blanketing over seems incredibly disengenuous.
VOTE: L6-g3

I don't really understand what these words even mean

[Lady 6]

This game is not standard mafia in which pairing matters a whole ton compared. Understanding why 5 would want to pair with 8 is critical.

I suppose I'm also still miffed that you said you "didn't buy" my reasons for wanting to pair with Gentleman 3 as if wanting a partner that you can work well with isn't important

like yes I agree pairing matters a whole ton

the reasons for pairing matters a whole tone

but the reasons you are pulling for pushes aren't scum indicative?

[Lady 6]

side note: but I put 0 stock in the argument that Gentleman 9 didn't mention G7 enough or something, I think it's kind of a dumb argument

[Lady 6]

Gentleman 9, why are you voting my pair over L1.Cry now?

[Lady 6]

I feel as though it is important *in general* but this feels like a philosophy disagreement

[Lady 6]

I personally don't really trust people to read their own partner

I think it's an admirable thing to strive for but I don't think getting a PT with someone necessarily means you can read them better. And voting is always going to be a better method of elimination than leaving the dance. Scum players play specifically to prevent their partners from leaving the dance. Town players have less of that inclination

[Lady 6]

I pressed boromir on this heavily in the pre-dance phase, and I was satisfied that his reasoning to pair with L8 was only for selfish reasons, which I found honest and believable.

okay that's fair

[Lady 6]

Gentleman 9, why are you voting my pair over L1.Cry now?

In my opinion, there's a heathly amount of suspicion among all pairs (except G5 L8's fairytale) - yours is the only one that has the biggest threat to endgaming as scum

so it's not so much that we're your biggest scum read but that if we're scum it's biggest problem fypov?

[Lady 6]

G6 WHERE YOU AT

[Lady 6]

I don't like that but I understand it I suppose

[Lady 6]

Pretty null. I don't really share G3's reasons for being suspicious of him, but he's done quite literally nothing and his last pop-in involved saying "we should look at this" without actually looking at that, which I don't like.

[Lady 6]

I'm not excited about flipping Lady 1 tho

finding a pair I want to flip is hard

[Lady 6]

that's fair enough, I hope to engage with you when you have the time

[Lady 6]

I believe Lady 1 is best sorted by me in our lewd handholding dungeon, and am willing to commit to yeeting myself and her if I don't like the kinks.

Maybe I'm playing too one-dimensionally, but I think "I want to sort my partner" seems like a town mentality where as "I want to work with my partner" seems like a scum mentality.

in contrast with you l7, I thought scarf g6 predecessor was pretty town as well.

I want to work with my partner does not exclude the face that I want to sort my partner

I just also want to solve the rest of the game and having a partner that if town I work well with makes solving the rest of the game much easier

[Lady 6]

VOTE: Lady 2/Gentleman 4

[Lady 6]

I am having trouble figuring out if G9 is someone I fundamentally disagree with as a player rather then him actually being scum.

Yeah I'm sort of arriving at the conclusion this might be the case

however, I don't know why G9 thought L3 was someone he would be able to sort well given that's his motivation behind pairings

[Lady 6]

like I'm half between "G9 is just throwing shit around to see what sticks" this game and "he's just an inconsistent town player that I happen to fundamentally disagree with"

[Lady 6]

what do you believe are some good reasons for town reading you?

[Lady 6]

What made you choose L2 over me?

I know I ended up expressing interest in someone else, but you'd started expressing interest in L2 before then.

[Lady 6]

Hm that is true that I was interested in L2 early on too. I think this was the same reason for you that I was getting gut town vibes. I would say I was preferring both of you equally until you went with G3.
Why did you ask that question? Do you think there's a reason scum me chooses L2 over you?

I'm pondering that

I remember someone saying that you + me would forever be a paranoia pair. And there have been several players that stated I should not reach end game. So if your goal is to reach end game, maybe you got cold feet on me.

Unsure if Lady 2 was your best alternative for that.

Has your read on L2 changed at all over the game?

[Lady 6]

I will reconsider if people start to scumread her, but it's not a high priority right now.

What's your highest priority right now? Where are you considering voting?

[Lady 6]

L6 what is your favorite final pair besides yourself and princes

gentleman 5 and lady 8.ghost

I think

[Lady 6]

L4, what is your read on my pair? You said you'd vote there but you're also not the most interested

[Lady 6]

seems like g8 is just open wolfing now

[Lady 6]

VOTE: Gentleman 6

[Lady 6]

i misunderstood the setup in that I thought each dance has exactly 1 vote phase... so there could be in total 2 executions at most :S

so i put a lot of emphasis on leaving as the key mechanism to get mafia...

oh my god

[Lady 6]

VOTE: Lady 4

[Lady 6]

you know

I feel like that makes G9 just town now

I don't really see that being faked in any world

[Lady 6]

Yeah G3 has been considering I was scum with G7 trying to get him to spew town so other people would want to partner with him

I know I was just trying to sort him but I think it's probably circular for me to try and argue about that

[Lady 6]

L3/G9 is my new preferred end game pairing.

100% serious

[Lady 6]

Gentleman 7, you should ask someone else to dance, I don't plan on accepting your invitation

No thanks. I'd rather die than

invite anyone else but you

not be with a seal.

[Lady 6]

im sorry m'lord

[Lady 6]

What I'm not understanding about Gent 9 is, even if he thought we only had one execution and thought leaving was the main mechanism, I don't see how that puts extreme emphasis on sorting your partner

If leaving is the main mechanism, our win condition is based almost entirely on pairs being able to sort each other accurately. Even if consensus is that someone in a pair is scum, if that scum read's partner doesn't think so, the game suddenly becomes nearly impossible to win.

I don't think Gentleman 9 is confirmed as town. However, I do think that such a misunderstanding of the setup would have been corrected by his teammates (as scum) long before now. It tracks with his previous arguments and pushes on people. His sudden realization now of his misunderstanding also doesn't strike me as planned or faked. Could it be? Uh maybe. But I read it as genuine and I just highly doubt he's scum with how long he's carried that misunderstanding and played true to it.

[Lady 6]

I think you're decently cleared by G7's proposal

but you also said you'd vote my pair

Do you not like G3?

[Lady 6]

I'm nervous about this townslip thing. if the scum pt is pretty quiet it could just not come up? G7.bandana wouldn't be talking that much

He's posted in the PT in a way not inconsistent with that misunderstanding and has been more interested in posting about the relative probabilities of us leaving eachother rather than discussing other pairs

I guess it just erases my reasons for scum reading him in that most of his earlier pushes seemed nonsensical. I can actually see the town motivation behind his posts better now.

[Lady 6]

gentleman 7 was upset that there were no seals in the scum pt

so he went on a suicidal quest to get a pt with me

solved it

[Lady 6]

I thought they were fake reads and pushes on town players that G9 either didn't want getting to town read or just pushed to look like he was doing something

his arguments literally seemed made up to me

[Lady 6]

I thought they were fake reads and pushes on town players that G9 either didn't want getting to town read or just pushed to look like he was doing something

his arguments literally seemed made up to me

hmm

to be clear, no issues with his play apart from the pushes he made in this phase of the game?

and out of interest, is the idea that scum are more likely to come up with insane backwards theories that make no sense based on your experience with scum doing this? when i say what was the scum motivation, i mean why does scum do that over, i dunno, literally anything else when it comes to pushing someone

Uh no I took issue with the way he questioned G5 and G3 back in the pre-dance as well. I also never quite reconciled his ask of Misty with the rest of his actions.

When I say they seemed made it up, it's not that I'm saying he was spouting insane backwards theories. It's that I thought his logic was fundamentally off in a way I saw coming from scum reaching for reasons to scum read. Like flawed arguments != scum, but his inconsistencies didn't make it seem like something he actually believed in to me

[Lady 6]

i think the point i'm trying to get at is that regardless of gentleman 9's alignment, it should have been obvious that he

thought

what he was saying made sense, even if it didn't actually

it was never a question to me of "does what he's saying actually make sense?" but a question of "does his line of thinking come from a town place?"

so i guess i'm trying to understand why you thought it didn't beyond "it didn't make sense"

to be very very clear here, because apparently I have not been

I'm not saying he was nonsensical and therefore seemed scummy. I'm saying his arguments seemed more to me like scum needing to deliberately search for / find reasons to support scum reads rather than just naturally finding scum reads as town.

[Lady 6]

also it probably doesn't mean much coming from me

but I don't think the way G7 went about and talked about "trolling" me is an S/S interaction very often, but alas, bias

[Lady 6]

I don't understand the case for G9!town

which part

[Lady 6]

G8, why does G7 keep going after me if I am obviously shutting him down in thread and presumably in the scum PT

like it doesn't seem to be sound strategy either way

[Lady 6]

you know, that is a valid fear