Mini Normal 2175 | The End |

[Datisi]

pagetop

get fucked iv

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Datisi]

hot take: gypyx doesn't make me want to instantly kill him to he's probably town

[Datisi]

@staarling, what's your mafia experience? you an alt by any chance?

[Datisi]

because last time i was town against scum!gypyx, his page one posting made my stomach turn and i was tunnelling him until he died

and compared to that, this is like... Better

pedit: @shelly

considering my uni is in effect, would also appreciate no 100page games

[Datisi]

because last time i was town against scum!gypyx, his page one posting made my stomach turn and i was tunnelling him until he died

and compared to that, this is like... Better

gutreads?

the first post is RVS
second is explaining to a newb
third is setup spec

none of this is AI??

yeah, it is a gutread

did you expect anything else on page 1.5???

[Datisi]

Datisi - townlean reading gypyx is pretty effort-y

can i know your definition of effort-y and/or how it applies to what i've done so far

[Datisi]

@Datisi: I've played a bit on Hogwarts Extreme. It's not a mafia site like this one but has mafia games. Everyone on this site seems to be way more into it so that's exciting :>

Also I used to play town of salem if that counts

how much does that site focus on dayplay vs nightplay/power roles?

do you have any leans/reads so far?

[Datisi]

Iconeum - scumlean the offhanded town comments seem pretty lamisty

I wouldn’t have scumleaned this reaction but Saudade is rubbing off on me

why does that reaction make you scumlean ico?

[Datisi]

can you tell me why you townlean Shelly’s readslists this early on

That kind of effort of structuring thier reads feel town to me, you see what i mean?

Is it the fact that it looks like she is putting effort in towny or is it specifically like, the format of that post

Like what distinguishes the effort in formatting from general effort or is there no distinction at all and it’s all towny?

this is like, an early mindmeld for me and it makes me lean +town on innocentvillager

because i feel like shelly's readslists definitely shouldn't be awarded town points, like stuff like "oh getting out of RVS early is townie" is something i storngly disagree with

interestingly enough i'm still leaning +town on gypyx because of tone, posts like 60

[Datisi]

*which is a better reason than gypyx is giving for his reads because apparently making a readslist is AI

and also instead of like, joking datisi posts his take on gypyx which is attempt to further the game vs. continue joking

i was gonna start worrying if you're bsing your read on me and trying to pocket me because that's *not* what efforting means, but then i remembered pushing you as scum because of dumb semantics like that which makes me think it's nai for you

[Datisi]

interestingly enough i'm still leaning +town on gypyx because of tone, posts like 60

yeah but how is that townie? it's saying your "getting out of rvs is town" basically

it's tone
"you're stretching"
"yes i am it's early"
it's something more likely to come from town imo

[Datisi]

ok datisi is townleaning too many people I am gunna pre-emptively deny that WK

i have townleaned *checks notes* TWO people

also what makes you think i'm townreading you?

[Datisi]

ok datisi is townleaning too many people I am gunna pre-emptively deny that WK

i have townleaned *checks notes* TWO people

also what makes you think i'm townreading you?

yeah but in my mind I think you have stated gypyx townlean a LOT of times so if that makes sense

yes i have mentioned it multiple times because i disagree with the scumreads there, but that isn't townleaning multiple people no?

what's your feels on me now?

[Datisi]

so like

Ico+Shellyc+datisi+username are town

gypyx is at the bottom of my reads but i'm granting some room here (even tho i caught scum!gypyx last time this early as well i think)

who is username

who is username

ahum

villager

l m a o

why am i town ico, i thought i was scumy with gypyx? :3

[Datisi]

20 at the very least

[Datisi]

what's your feels on me now?

pretty good

I get those townvibes and going against consensus on gypyx from me/ico/iv seems pretty bold as scum especially with gypyx

i still find it bizzare that people are seriously pumping out game solves on page 5

anyway shelly is making my gut machine go "???" because she's both (1) giving me scummy vibes of changing reads illogically/posturing/having "fake" posts and (2) reminding me of 2169 where they were town

[Datisi]

anyway shelly is making my gut machine go "???" because she's both (1) giving me scummy vibes of changing reads illogically/posturing/having "fake" posts and (2) reminding me of 2169 where they were town

I have not changed any of my reads in this whole entire game and you probably underestimate how terrible my towngame is

idk i got a bad vibe from you townleaning me for tone then accusing me of white knighting because i was townleaning too many people

[Datisi]

in my mafia dictionary WK is a term for town pocketing so...

that was also not very serious

that word does not mean that in everyone else's mafia dictionary

[Datisi]

daddy

that word does not mean that in everyone else's mafia dictionary

*searches up wiki*
a tactic used to subconsciously become perceived as less of a threat by another player. While this is usually done by scum, Townies have been known to do this as well.

i looked it up, this is from a page about buddying, how dare you falsify information like this. anyway. white-knighting is in the majority of the cases used to mean "scum defending a townie". so. /SE hat

[Datisi]

interestingly enough i'm still leaning +town on gypyx because of tone, posts like 60

I liked this too I guess but I still feel pretty meh about his later posting

Do you still think gypyx is town?

i do, actually

like so far this game, i've gotten two distinct ~vibes~.

(1) as someone who dislikes RVS and tries to get out of it asap as either alignment, most of my early reads when town are stretches. i know that, and that's fine, gotta start somewhere. but like, i'd sometimes get called out on that, "datisi, your reads are a stretch, are you scum?" like no shit they're a stretch, it's page 2.

(2) for a couple of games where ico and i were t/t, a pattern would happen: ico would enter the game doing ico things, i'd start correctly townreading him, some players, not knowing who they're dealing with, would start scumreading him, ico would negatively react to the scumread, they'd start scumreading him even more. i'd have to start yelling about how ico is town, can we please not derail 10-50 pages of day one barking up the wrong tree. and the current situation is giving me the same vibes, except not with ico, but with gypyx. (note i don't have the extensive meta on him that i do on ico, though.)

and both of those, coupled with the fact that gypyx's posting is just like, Not giving me the obvscum vibes it was last time, is making me think he's *just town*? like, is it possible the scumreads on gypyx are hitting a sore spot for town!me? i mean sure, like i already said i didn't agree with his reason of townreading shelly. but would i bet it's coming from a scum mindset? ...not really, no.

[Datisi]

i feel like i could write out why i heavily dislike shelly's acting towards gypyx because it feels like pushing on surface-level scummy rhetoric stuff that comes from town more often than not, like the effort vs structure thing or "why did you post it if you thought it was bad" thing

but i don't know if my heart believes in those arguments

sad

[Datisi]

hmm

@iv, can you answer 73 for me please?

[Datisi]

i feel like i could write out why i heavily dislike shelly's acting towards gypyx because it feels like pushing on surface-level scummy rhetoric stuff that comes from town more often than not, like the effort vs structure thing or "why did you post it if you thought it was bad" thing

but i don't know if my heart believes in those arguments

sad

Is there a reason you have a problem with Shelly pushing these arguments rather than me or Ico?

ye, there was stuff i've seen from you and ico that i've liked
also i don't think either of you was pushing stuff the same way as her? like specifically the weird stuff like semantics effort/structure bad posts things?

Also, what do you think of Gypyx posting from 139 onward

uhh, kinda the same thing as of the posting before it

your turn?

[Datisi]

But at the same time, I know it's not fun as either alignment to be under fire like this (and people forget this is a game) so if there's nothing really scummy yet I'm fine with backing down for now

i'm confused by this. didn't you say you found gypyx's reaction there scummy? why are you now fine backing down "if there's nothing really scummy there"?

[Datisi]

why does that reaction make you scumlean ico?

ohhh

i think we are t/t this game?

Does t/t mean Iconeum is saying both are town? i don't trust it for some reason, like Iconeum is trying to get people on his side eagerly if you know what I mean

yeah, ico was saying he thought both of us were town. do you find anything else suspicious about him, and if so, why?

[Datisi]

btw staarling, signatures are same across the games and aren't related to people's alignment

[Datisi]

@shelly, i thought her opening was like. fine. i specifically had a ping that either she's town or she's trying really hard to pocket me/gypyx. which... eh. doesn't get me far i don't think.

ok actually I'm going to explain this now
so yeah. there's analysis about how me/ico s/s is unlikely, but that's not the townposting part
basically there's a take and it's assertiveness which isn't TMI'd but there's self-reflectiveness which comes from town a lot of the time

can you explain this in non-mafia lingo? because i feel like i'm reading a buzzword salad without actually knowing what it's trying to say

[Datisi]

i'm going to pocket you so i can get access to all the weird flavor you have.

you kid, but i'm reading your posts further and i feel like it's either the biggest mindmeld ever or the biggest pocket ever lmao

[Datisi]

can you explain this in non-mafia lingo? because i feel like i'm reading a buzzword salad without actually knowing what it's trying to say

maybe. might be hard.

like ydrasse isnt afraid to make differing takes on gypyx going against the consensus of {ico iv shelly} town {gypyx} scum but in a way that isnt super confident so doesnt sound informed

ydrasse town immediately townpings usually i think this is it

ok i'm not sure what that has to do with the analysis of you/ico being not s/s?

[Datisi]

she's trying really hard to pocket me/gypyx.

which parts sounded pockety or is it the general vibe that theyre against me/iv/ico's kill gypyx block

can you please not quote me out of context like that, i said she's doing one *or* the other

and it's the general vibe of "that blocc wants to murder gypyx, datisi comes in saying why he thinks it's a bad read, ydrasse comes in saying the same thing in a ~somewhat similar manner"

maybe i'm paranoid because one of my main ways of looking for townreads is Looking For Mindmelds, but

[Datisi]

ok i'm not sure what that has to do with the analysis of you/ico being not s/s?

did you quote wrong post

198 read on ydrasse is independent to read on ico.

i didn't? like you said the post where ydrasse talked about you/ico not being s/s is a townpost, then you went on to explain why

when i asked you to reexplain, you said it was her push against the grain that is towny?

[Datisi]

CAN I GET THIS POST IN PLEASE THANKS

OK

@Datisi: I think 85 and 88 was off from Iconeum because it was calling you town in one and then mafia in the other. I think mafia usually have more crazy or not consistent thoughts like that. The post here because I don't think it's that angry about not getting a post in, I think the anger maaaay be fake

staarling, as a Certified Ico Expert, if i told you that's how the dragon speaks and it's NAI for him (bordering on slightly leaning towny), what would your read on him be?

[Datisi]

pedit: yeah that part was more... minor?

but why did you say it was specifically that post that was a townpost then

ok

[Datisi]

yoink

[Datisi]

@Datisi: Got it! It only really matters if they're in just 1 game then

also i just realized like, unfortunate implications of this and i need to correct it

signatures don't matter even if the person is only in one game, because changing a signature (which is sitewide) because of a single game counts at talking about ongoing games, and someone got modkilled for doing something similar last year

so like don't do that

[Datisi]

datisi - im kinda conflicted here because faking a mindmeld is something datisi did as scum, i also got paranoid gutpings from that so eh.

ok i don't get this. first you townread me for reasons of going against the thread on gypyx. ok cool. then ydrasse comes in doing the same thing. i say that either she's town or she's faking a mindmeld with me.

now i'm suspicious because *i* was faking a mindmeld with *someone else*?

[Datisi]

re shelly's 249: no. no i didn't. i was genuinely planning on voting you there, but menal beat me to the punch, so ok i decided to do the next best thing of running with already having planned to vote you there. but for the sake of argument let's say i was actually faking a mindmeld on mena.

*how* did i do the same thing in this game, when i was the first to come in defense of gypyx, and ydrasse did that afterwards?

[Datisi]

@Iconeum: I'm not eager to but his fearlessness looked townie to me earlier. he did it again on the top of this page

Like, you don't even have to townread me here to listen but

trust me when I tell you that going for pagetops is incredibly Non Allignment Indicative for ANY player in this playerlist

can confirm, being pagetop hungry is not AI for me

i'm not the type to turn down a townread though

[Datisi]

ico, is gypyx still scum?

[Datisi]

how am i capitalizing on it.

[Datisi]

What did you speedrun, Datisi?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82436

modded three secret hitler games half a year ago

[Datisi]

you kid, but i'm reading your posts further and i feel like it's either the biggest mindmeld ever or the biggest pocket ever lmao

yeah so ydrasse is in the "don't kill gypyx" camp alongside you.
you TR ydrasse having the same thoughts as you
you are aware that it is a mindmeld and so selfaware that you'll be seen as pocketing

does this make sense yet

no
because last game it had a clear purpose of faking a mindmeld for townreads (even if that wasn't its original purpose fkin mena typing faster than me)
and here i was calling out ydrasse for *maybe* faking a mindmeld on me
like i'm townleaning ydrasse for having similar thoughts to me not the other way around
like i think the situations aren't similar at all?

[Datisi]

VOTE: shelly

ico, you seeing what i'm seeing?

[Datisi]

rereading i feel like ydrasse/datisi is a weird block that TRs gypyx because their trajectory on me was not scummy enough
i think im inclined to lose a shade of trust in people who are not immediately obvtown and have differing takes than me

his trajectory on you was... fine.
and where tf did the second line come from, when earlier one your main reasons for townreading me and a big reason for townreading ydrasse was the fact that we're going against the ~blocc~ on gypyx and that's towny?

[Datisi]

...eh? what would being informed have to do with weird reasoning? like, you know who's town so you're consistently stretching to try and frame things as scummy/make it up.

because you know the alignments of people scum is more likely to pick up on towntells that town might miss and therefore would usually use the more direct reason, and also that scum are aware that weird reasons might look bad

if this is about your push/scumread/ping/whatever on me being convoluted, what does "scum is more likely to pick up *towntells* becaue they're informed" have to do with "scum is less likely to make up convoluted *scumreads*"?

[Datisi]

i still find it bizzare that people are seriously pumping out game solves on page 5

Why do you find it bizzare?

because the early early game solves are almost always wrong, like we're not solving this game on page 5

i used to think it was lowkey scummy because it's obvious page 1-5 solves are not gonna be good and they're easy to fake because you can look at any random shit and go "partners" but after seeing townies trying to do them for a couple of games i now just think it's stupid

[Datisi]

if you think it's town motivated, then ur not having trouble finding allignment, which means you only added that part for gesture -> scum trait

"i'm guessing town but i could see this go either way"? i thought the phrasing was fine?

ico, did you say you had a game with town!gypyx?

[Datisi]

mini actually feels like coming into this game and getting a foothold if you know what i mean

getting your bearings

she's commenting on what i'd expect comments on, so yeah

i like the opening

:/

ico did you roll scum this game

i was actually thinking mini's opening is worse than gypyx's here?

like what about her posting so far is things you'd *expect* a comment on? and why did you think 297 was towny (i'm assuming you did)?

[Datisi]

ico can you make a readslist? i wanna see where you're at because I'm gonna bet the game on town!you

this is actually genuinely making me uneasy

like i at this point wouldn't bet the game on ico being town

why are you so confident on it?

[Datisi]

so as i was catching up i was told to go make pasta
i was expecting like at least half a page by the time i got back but i guess not

also daddy

anyway

They talk about town readin people and then go to ask people why they themselves are town and it is really making me struggle to read them

can you elaborate on this? i don't think i get what you're saying here

[Datisi]

Datisi: They are strange to me but they are someone i have never played with before so ive read just their posts and i dont know really. Its just weird i dont know how else to explain it. They talk about town readin people and then go to ask people why they themselves are town and it is really making me struggle to read them

"townreading" and "asking people why they are town" is pretty proactive solving don't you think? that furthers the gamestate

is this like, an opinion you yourself hold or?

[Datisi]

ico can you make a readslist? i wanna see where you're at because I'm gonna bet the game on town!you

this is actually genuinely making me uneasy

like i at this point wouldn't bet the game on ico being town

why are you so confident on it?

are you not expecting ico!town?

can you tell me one post from ico that pings you?

i'm expecting ico!town
i'm townreading ico and the only thing i could stretch into a ping at this point in time is maybe weird reads dissonance between the two of us

but i'm far from betting the game on town him

so again, why are you so confident?

[Datisi]

rereading i feel like ydrasse/datisi is a weird block that TRs gypyx because their trajectory on me was not scummy enough
i think im inclined to lose a shade of trust in people who are not immediately obvtown and have differing takes than me

his trajectory on you was... fine.
and where tf did the second line come from, when earlier one your main reasons for townreading me and a big reason for townreading ydrasse was the fact that we're going against the ~blocc~ on gypyx and that's towny?

yeah but that's situational you see because a lot of the plist was scumreading gypyx at that time

???
but you said you were rereading those posts so like they were made *at that time* no?? so how is it not the same situation???

...eh? what would being informed have to do with weird reasoning? like, you know who's town so you're consistently stretching to try and frame things as scummy/make it up.

because you know the alignments of people scum is more likely to pick up on towntells that town might miss and therefore would usually use the more direct reason, and also that scum are aware that weird reasons might look bad

if this is about your push/scumread/ping/whatever on me being convoluted, what does "scum is more likely to pick up *towntells* becaue they're informed" have to do with "scum is less likely to make up convoluted *scumreads*"?

change the word towntells to tells and yeah.

sorry i don't get this
"scum is more likely to pick up *tells* because they're informed"?

Datisi: They are strange to me but they are someone i have never played with before so ive read just their posts and i dont know really. Its just weird i dont know how else to explain it. They talk about town readin people and then go to ask people why they themselves are town and it is really making me struggle to read them

"townreading" and "asking people why they are town" is pretty proactive solving don't you think? that furthers the gamestate

is this like, an opinion you yourself hold or?

its an opinion I hold but I wont give a townpass on that itself

ok but i don't get why you're like goading mini into townreading me if i'm in your PoE or whatever?

[Datisi]

i'm expecting ico!town
i'm townreading ico and the only thing i could stretch into a ping at this point in time is maybe weird reads dissonance between the two of us

but i'm far from betting the game on town him

so again, why are you so confident?

because they're by far my hugest TR

iso-wise theres active pushes on gypyx that vibes with my own, and constant evaluation of different slots (for example the staarling thing where they were pushing there but then read further and decided that it was townie) and general boldness in play

i have read dragon's iso, yes

it's not locktown, at page 16

like the boldness ain't locktown

how many games you got with ico?

[Datisi]

i have something of an early solve in my head, with brackets that need sorting
do i specifically scumread everyone in my solve as of right now? no

they are there because poe and current game state and gut

my early PoE is gypyx/GB/dats/deepwolf pool

this feels like a game in which I can get multiple TRs

also i feel like i absolutely hate this
from being townie on me for going against the grain then reversing on that same read with the same reasoning
going "gut scummy on me" then saying she missed my explanation and /passing it then still saying it's gut scummy while not actually being in the scumpool? even tho it was showed her reasoning for suspecting me is like, completely backwards
then dropping me into the PoE

like i see i'm getting sunk lower and lower because of ??? reasons

[Datisi]

hot take, if shelly!scum, partner is in mini/GB/gypyx, around that order probably

[Datisi]

why is georgebailey town.

is there anything else you wanna comment on.

[Datisi]

Ydrasse, you've been susing shelly pretty strong, why's your vote not on her?

samw goes for you, she was your strongest expressed suspicion if i recall correctly and you're still voteparking ico

why is it difficult to get any wagon going, especially on shelly

[Datisi]

i didn't reverse the read for that reason
you're in the poe because you're not in my townpool and i repeated my townpool 100000 times

yes you repeated your townpool 100000 times and i was in it

until you started sussing me either for the GuT FeEl that didn't make sense given circumstances or because you were rereading the posts and came out with a different context than they were posted in (if i missed anything, do link me)

like i'm using scumpool and PoE interchangeably but i think my point is clear

[Datisi]

@GeorgeBailey: Why would your haircut make someone think you're a townie?

if staarling were an experienced player, i'd be calling for nsg's tell of "scum is more likely than town to miss jokes"

however i kinda don't think it's AI in this case

[Datisi]

I actually liked Mini opening yeah

yes i understand that

i was kinda asking you w h y

[Datisi]

I agree that I shouldn't be locktown, and I'd like to believe that my play so far is in my scumrange.

That said, I do think i've been towntelling more then 'normal' for the stage of the game

you are more towny than usual at this stage, i agree

but i am still not locktowning you so you feel why i find it hella sus that someone else is

[Datisi]

I have bad feelings

staarling, can you explain why those posts in 208 give you a bad vibe about ico?

(and please use post tags )

[Datisi]

in 408*

haven't had coffee yet

[Datisi]

staarling, it's fine to just have feelings you can't explain properly!! like 98% of my reads when i am town are just gutfeels, i'm not trying to undermine your read

i'm just saying, i have a metric crapton of games with Ico, and i think he's being townie here, so i'm trying to understand what about him is making you suspicious so i can tell you if that's something you need to worry about or if it's just Ico Things that aren't scum indicative

[Datisi]

well, considering there being 3 mafia in a micro is next to impossible...

[Datisi]

because we have 2.5 spammers and everyone else has a normal postcount

[Datisi]

i didn't reverse the read for that reason
you're in the poe because you're not in my townpool and i repeated my townpool 100000 times

yes you repeated your townpool 100000 times and i was in it

until you started sussing me either for the GuT FeEl that didn't make sense given circumstances or because you were rereading the posts and came out with a different context than they were posted in (if i missed anything, do link me)

like i'm using scumpool and PoE interchangeably but i think my point is clear

no you were in it until yesterday. i have already removed you from my townpool which is

ico/iv/staarling/ydrasse

i think you're like null i guess? recent posting was pretty good actually

i might be mixing up the exact timing but my points arr clear

like i was in your townpool until i got removed for like, 2 reasons, both of which make no sense

and now you're saying my recent posting is "pretty good" so you'd think i'd actually be a townread but nope go into null!!

[Datisi]

staarling do you prefer mafia or town

VOTE: un vote
UNVOTE: Sirius9121

aaand also whats the mod doing

you can't unvote the mod...

mod probably added that unvote because the vote counter doesn't recognize "vote: unvote"

unvotes like that hella annoy me when i'm modding

[Datisi]

scum zone -> null is like "fine" (tho i am curious what posts made oyu think that because i have a feeling my posting has been kinda consistent)

it's the townpool -> "not the scumzone" but actually scumzone that makes no sense given why you said it's happened

[Datisi]

(tho i am curious what posts made oyu think that because i have a feeling my posting has been kinda consistent)

@shelly

this is a "which of my posts moved me from scum/PoE/whatever to null for you"

[Datisi]

you know what, if this is true or not, but the entire concept of you thinking this makes me townread you here

ico, pls enlighten me why you think this is town!indicative thinking?

[Datisi]

d a d d y

[Datisi]

you know what, if this is true or not, but the entire concept of you thinking this makes me townread you here

ico, pls enlighten me why you think this is town!indicative thinking?

the solving GB part in it

ok but like why?

like it's a read that's very easy to invent and that's easy to walk back from later (also it's lowkey worrying those are the only reads he had coming back but)

[Datisi]

@goergblailey
(1) did you read the whole game
(2) do you think you're out of your scumrange rn

[Datisi]

don't see a problem

"sorting" in of itself gets less and less as a towntell the more experience someone has

and coming in with an "early read" on page 20, that is quite easy to toss away later, *while* not commenting on the 7-8 other slots (and openly saying they're not even trying to read some of them) would sooner make me think that the read is ~for show~ rather than genuine sorting

do you see why i don't think it's a townbinnable thing?

[Datisi]

datisi why is it a problem that my read is open to change?

i didn't say it's a problem your reads are open to change

i'm trying to understand why your reads are the way they are *at the moment* because i don't see it, chief

[Datisi]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

to me it looked less like "genuine"-solvey and more like "oh god oh fuck i need to produce content lemme make up some bs that can't be debunked"-solvey but that's the game ain't it

[Datisi]

is your read of "town!bailey is more likely to enter the game jokingly" connected to the mini trainwreck 2157?

[Datisi]

added on top of not saying anything about the rest of the game, let alone do some RVS which is maybe a bad way to play mafia but i still scumread em for it

did he not like give reads about at least 4 other people or

also if it's not related to any specific game, have you considered he didn't enter the game joking because... joking time was over at that point?

[Datisi]

i will concede that "i see where you're coming from" and "i don't get any scummy vibes from" are not Given Reads, which is what i misremembered them for

and ok, i will have more to say on the matter later i think

[Datisi]

you should definitely indirectly shade me more without engaging me/talking to someone else!

you are free to answer 73 (

cough

153) and 186 whenever you're ready

do you have any explanation for your reads that don't include stretching tells about activity?

[Datisi]

nothing here move along- sirius

Sorry that was a freaking altslip you can redact the hydra post mod

i think i caught this before it got erased (though correct me if i'm wrong), it was asking what iv thought of me, and asking me why i was pushing ico to answer questions about his reads when i said 98% of my reads are gut reads

for the part aimed at me: what do those two things even have to do with each other??

[Datisi]

ok and? you're complaining that i'M NoT eNgAgInG yOu, i clearly am, and you're choosing to ignore it and instead present and explain one (1) read whose entire basis is "not posting"??

[Datisi]

because i'm trying to figure out if your reads are bullshit you make up on the spot

and when the only explanation to a read you have provided so far in the entire game is "hurr durr this person didn't post so no scum pt" and you're actively avoiding questions, it's starting to become *concerning*

[Datisi]

back to null, trending downwards

pedit: yes, for the reasons i laid out earlier, i do think your beorgegailey read smells of bullshit

[Datisi]

do you think i'm scum, iv?

or is it too much to ask to share that read?

[Datisi]

i'm pretty sure i already said that your lack of any reads based on content actually posted in the game was way worse but go off i guess

pedit: s i g h

[Datisi]

like it's a read that's very easy to invent and that's easy to walk back from later

(also it's lowkey worrying those are the only reads he had coming back but)

and coming in with an "early read" on page 20, that is quite easy to toss away later,

*while* not commenting on the 7-8 other slots (and openly saying they're not even trying to read some of them)

would sooner make me think that the read is ~for show~ rather than genuine sorting

maybe i didn't fucking spell it out letter for letter but

[Datisi]

okay I guess scumread anyone who isn’t posting their full readlists on page 2 and townread anyone who is!

what the fuck are you even trying to say with this

like i'm not townreading people for ~*posting readslists*~?

[Datisi]

my read on shelly has n o t h i n g to do with the fact she has or hasn't made readslists / shared all her reads? like did you even read the game?

pedit: oh hi ydrasse

[Datisi]

so to be clear.

Someone who talks about all their reads - NAI
Someone who doesn’t talk much about their reads - scummy

yes?

mostly, but i really don't think this is as black-and-white as you're making it out to be because the way people talk about them and also personal meta etc but go on

pedit: it would surely be nice to know what your read on ico is, yes :upside_down_emoji:

ppedit: ...

pppedit: oh hi gypyx

[Datisi]

you know what, i'm gonna go for a walk before i say something ~inappropriate~

[Datisi]

because if you have a problem answering a simple fucking reads question from page 3 or whatever how can i expect that you answer a--

you know what no
walking away
see y'all later

[Datisi]

i think i caught this before it got erased (though correct me if i'm wrong), it was asking what iv thought of me, and asking me why i was pushing ico to answer questions about his reads when i said 98% of my reads are gut reads

i asked what do you think of iv

i like to ask unrelated questions in the same post you got a problem with that

ok got the first line backwards, my bad

and i don't have a problem with you asking two unrelated questions in the same post jfc, my problem is that you are framing me as scum for pestering ico to explain

his own reads

when i said

my own reads

are 98% gut (which are often hard to explain)

because (1) i always try to explain my reads to the best of my ability even if it's difficult but more importantly (2) those two things (my reads and ico's reads) have nothing to do with eachother???

[Datisi]

the ydrasse gut townvibes have weakened I still think they're town just eh. not so much.

this sharp dropoff of posting prob contributes to this weakening as well.

ok ydrasse goes up

i reread boardgames and I tried to not be biased
think scum!ydra will never be so high effort

in between these two posts. ydrasse posted six (6) posts, and four of those were one-liners

s o h i g h e f f o r t

[Datisi]

dats pushing iv for not explaining their reads feels weird when data often has "gutreads" and gutreads arent easily explained. and not explaining reads seems like a clash of playstyles that i'd expect either iv or dats to realise that its a shitfight.

again, what do my reads and iv's read have to do with each other

and why are you acting as if i'm scumreading iv because of the shitfight?

[Datisi]

new avi who dis



vaguely in the order of would not yeet > would yeet:

ico - so like. this just looks like classic town!ico that i’ve played the last god knows how many games with. (do you ever roll scum anymore?) didn’t see anything red-flagy, don’t feel like i’m being led astray, his reactions feel like they always do, etc, etc. i won’t waste time typing here.

ydrasse - if this is scum, i’mma hate myself for falling into that pocket. the paranoia on me feels townie as it almost seems too... convoluted? illogical? for scum to make up. also feels decently solve-y for day one.

staarling - the tone is good, each post follows a clear train of thought... while i *could* see her being scum, i think it’s more likely she’s Just Town? i wish you posted more, though :c

george - he is like, close to null, maybe a smigde towards town. i cooould be getting fooled here because of haunted village, but... eh. i feel what he’s saying about mini, and for some reason, i feel like scum!george would’ve jumped on the shelly wagon there that was building? unless obviously they’re scumbuddies, but do i ever nail a scumteam on day one...

gypyx - first i kinda thought this would be much more towards town due to start-of-day tonal read thing, but as i was rereading his iso, i thought that’s the only thing he has going for him? like tonally he still feels more town than not, but he seems to have trailed off as the day is progressing. the only serious vote being on a at-the-time non-poster is... ehh.

iv - what even. fuck if i know. my first thought is to townbin people being purposefully difficult with me, becuase ~what is the scum motivation behind that~, and i got burned enough times by that.

mini - right, what exactly feels solvey here? i think ico said she’s commenting on what he’d expect her to, but i dunno chief, i just don’t see it. also the read on me feels like weird shading.

shelly - ... i think i have explained my read here, like, a lot of times by this point, but two main things, again.
> townbins me, then takes me out of the townpool for “pocketing ydrasse”, a read that clearly didn’t make any sense given what happened.
> townbins me for going against the grain. later on shades me and calls it “weird” and asserts that she’s inclined to scumread people who have differing takes than her. i call her out beause she was townreading me for the *exact same thing* earlier, but no, that was situational (???) because the most of the game was scumreading gypyx at the time. (which is when she started townbinning me originally???)
(also apparently ico is disagreeable and that’s “another reason to townbin him” lmfao)

[Datisi]

i wasn't referring to how high effort ydra was between my posts
- ydrasse being really solvey d1 with good tone as well feels like her towngame
- me: ok this is probtown but can ydrascum do that?
- me goes check ydrascum games
- me concludes no.

this game is more efforty for ydrasse compared to previous scumgames? i miiiight go check out boardgames if necessary later

[Datisi]

because (1) i always try to explain my reads to the best of my ability even if it's difficult but more importantly (2) those two things (my reads and ico's reads) have nothing to do with eachother???

this kinda sounds like projecting a projection but ehhh?
feels like if you often make unexplained reads you're less likely to call people out for unexplained reads

lmao excuse me what

this is sooner *you* projecting your expectations of my play on *me* and reading me through that than anything else

like again, if i often have unexplained reads (which again i try to explain) why in the heck would i not be able to ask other people to explain theirs?

[Datisi]

and why are you acting as if i'm scumreading iv because of the shitfight?

I assumed you would but do you have a read on iv based on the shitfight then

no

i'm making a conscious effort to read all shitfights and people lowkey being asses as strictly NAI because i've been burned by loltownbinning that way too much

[Datisi]

read triangles are cool is there a template/software for making them

Spoiler: i gotchu fam

that's the template, feel free to steal
i use paint tool sai 2 to make them, but you got a lot of free programs (like paint.net, fire alpaca, krita) that work fine, just copy-paste avatars on a different layer and move accordingly

[Datisi]

:D

it's the way i illustrate my reads in early-to-mid game!

people usually make one-dimensional town to scum readslists, but i realized it's not "enough" for me

basically the closer someone is to the "town" vertex, the more i read them as town, same for the "scum" vertex

the closer someone is to the top however, the more... confused and unsure i am about my read on them? like i'm townreading gypyx and george the similar amount, but my read on gypyx is more unstable, based on shaky reasoning, i think it's more prone to error, etc... and at the very top, there is no alignment read, only confusion

and i don't exactly have jester-reads, but if you wanna make your reads into a square, but if you wanna do that, feel free!

[Datisi]

oh no i'm on the bottom layer D:

can you talk to me about mini and gypyx's placements?

[Datisi]

*breath in*
boi

it doesn't feel like i'm sorting you. no shit. i *am not able to sort you* when you're not outing reads. do you think my sorting of the other players only looks like sorting on the surface? if so, which parts make you think that and why?

[Datisi]

ahahahaha holy shit where do i start

there is at least one scum shitpushing me right now, mark my fucking words, maybe even both of them

[Datisi]

anyways here's where I'm at, daddisi. for one, i kind of doubt that "you are not able to sort me" just because I am not giving every single read and explaining them all.

I have enough content for you to have at least some opinion on me

; it seems like many of the other players have one of me. if I feel it's relevant and helpful I'll probably say something or respond.

okay so the little relevant content that you have produced so far is (1) pushing gypyx, (2) that random-ass reads where georgebailey was town because ??? and (3) your shitfight with me, and so far i have formed an opinion about all of them

(1) - i have already said that i liked the way you called out gypyx for townreading shelly based on shaky reasoning. okay. that was +town. (also to note that one of my questions that you are still evading is about your gypyx push and the way you kinda quieted down for no real reason, which is nagl, but ooookayyyyy)
(2) - you dismissed it as "shading", but i've clearly said why i disliked it: it's a random-ass read that will convince nobody and that you can easily walk back from if needed, *and* you're avoiding stepping on any toes by making a read that's actually about someone who is, y'know, *present* in the game?
(3) - i have a flaw that i automatically read all shitfights / people being asses to me as town. which is why i'm consciously trying to see it as NAI. if i squnt, i can see where you're going with this point but you're plainly ignoring the other points

and guess what, i wasn't satisfied just sorting you from *that little* amount of content so i wanted more. i don't need you to explain each and every read. but like, you explained *one* with an explanation that can easily be thrown away.

pedit: typing isn't instantaneous shelly, but thanks for the shade, the sun sure is bright today

[Datisi]

but more importantly just to clarify when I say "it doesn't feel like you're sorting me" I'm more referring to "trying to sort me" not "able to successfully sort me". Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a broken record but as I've said before I didn't like the way you kept pushing pretty old questions that I didn't think were relevant to the gamestate any longer, then shading me indirectly about something completely different while talking to ico was pretty concerning.

again, i have *tried to sort you* on what content you've produced, but you'll ignore that at the moment, while in the same breath saying that i'm shading you while talking to ico which is *gasp* sorting you based on your different actions! like, what does "sorting" even mean to you?

[Datisi]

actually, let's just take care of this: do you still want me to answer those two questions? the one about the ico meme and the one about gypyx from back then? if you say yes, I also want you to tell me exactly what you were looking for, how that would help sort me, and your opinion on how my response (when I give it) really informs your read on me. like I want to know why it was so important those questions were answered, especially because it doesn't seem like you're admitting that you don't care about the questions anymore when I brought up even town!you could just be being stubborn. there were questions like, "how do you feel about X, I'm concerned you didn't get a read here, can you give your thoughts" etc. that would've made more sense to push if you were really concerned that my "only takeaways" from my random-order skim through (also, how can you even reasonably strongly scumread my weird order skimthrough producing two townreads. and yes I said reasonably strongly scumread because this is what YOU indicated in that post where you bolded stuff from two quote idr exact post #).

yes. yes i do want the answers to those questions. and my play doesn't work like that. i don't ask every single question with "ok if they respond X they're +town and if they respond Y they're +scum" in mind. i scattergun, ask a bunch of things that i know *might* be useful to me and *might* inspire me to form a read somewhere, and sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. it's important because i don't understand why you were scumleaning ico or why you were laying off of gypyx when you were and answers to those will maybe help me see if you have a consistent thought process or you're bullshitting reads. simple as that.

i can link you to a game where scum was pushing town!me for doing this exact thing if you want (: i'm getting deja vu myself here

sure, maybe those questions make more sense "to you", but it's not just about the reads you formed or didn't form in that moment, it's about looking at your reads across the game. (and i kinda wrote about it in the above posts, but it's because you were gone for a while so i'd expect you to have Actual Thoughts on things that are happening, and having just one random townread on a person who isn't posting is lowkey lazy, not wanting to go against anyone, *and* easy to walk back from, which is behaviour often seen in scum!)

[Datisi]

i haven't really been paying attention to your "attempts to sort others" tbh. My vote on you is the vote on you because of our interactions which I obviously feel best about and have noticed the most. Does that tunnel me a little bit? maybe, especially since somehow no one feels the same way I do about you about not trying to sort me? But then again no one sees our interactions quite as vividly as I do just as I don't see your interactions with others as vividly either. so I'm somewhat conflicted but i feel ~ok just sitting here with my vote on you for now

well you obviously haven't been paying attention to my attempts to sort you either, but ok

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Datisi]

I ask datisi on their iv read basically, then dats starts rambling on about how my questions arent being related and how scummy I am, which is shading me instead of answering my questions, which is pushing an agenda play basically.

holy shit lmao
i answered your question about my read on iv, tell me pretty please, what are these posts, chopped liver? like, because i didn't quote @shelly "hey here's the answer to your question about my iv read" in the first post, it doesn't count?

iv - what even. fuck if i know. my first thought is to townbin people being purposefully difficult with me, becuase ~what is the scum motivation behind that~, and i got burned enough times by that.

and why are you acting as if i'm scumreading iv because of the shitfight?

I assumed you would but do you have a read on iv based on the shitfight then

no

i'm making a conscious effort to read all shitfights and people lowkey being asses as strictly NAI because i've been burned by loltownbinning that way too much

and it's not shading you, it's outright trying to get you executed, and stop twisting events around
i wasn't calling out your "questions being unrelated", i was calling out *a single question* that was connecting two things (my and ico's reads) which have *nothing to do with each other* to then further the push on me when it was clearly bad faith

which you then called "projection of a projection" when clearly the only person projecting anything in that exchange was you projecting your expectations of my play on me (or pretending to to get me executed, probably that tbf)

[Datisi]

same thing happens with iv. which is really +scumpoints imo. and there's no effort to solve iv, only shading iv by saying that iv isn't fleshing out their reads, which feels really insincere

as we have established in the above posts, i've been trying to sort iv, despite him making it a fucking struggle, so this is blatantly false

[Datisi]

IV has expressed reads on everyone in the game despite them not being really in-depth

i think dats making it top priority for iv to make content is weird, why iv and not. any other slot like mini/staarling.

when, on the last page? like even that is false because his reads on one third (one third!) of the game (gypyx/mini/shelly) are "eh/i don't care" but for the sake of argument, since that was after i started calling him out, where did he express reads on the entire game prior to that?

i've been saying mini is scummy and wanting more content from her since her first batch of posting, but i don't exactly like pushing people when they're in the hospital

staarling's posts/takes aren't like, blatantly scummy, she's making content, and also i have? like i asked her about her reads and said i wished she posted more? so what's your point here?

[Datisi]

so I really feel that titanic struggle to prove yourself as town. and I don't think this is AtE as well, it's coming off as really genuine, and feels like datisi under my pressure is still trying to get something out of iv, and this is more like questioning and I can see where datisi is trying to sort iv now

with iv being the obtuse one

. which I like.

so what's your read on iv now then?

[Datisi]

Daddisi, I see you’ve transitioned into voting me. I feel like I was just in “oh god I don’t know” territory or whatever. Like how did my last wall somehow go from just unclear antagonism to scum antagonism. Did you suddenly get the deja vu flashback to that one game you’re referencing?

Also just to clarify I never said you didn’t have opinions on me, you were the one who said you “were not able to sort me” so maybe I misinterpreted.

i have literally spent some 4 posts explaining my problems with your last wall, aka post 641.

you said you were referring to "

trying

to sort [you]".

i'm still scumreading shelly, if in any case that's what you're wondering and you want to know my read there.

I’m sorry if I can’t like read your mind or know exactly your playstyle or how you scumhunt. Those things stuck out to me and actually your explanations seem somewhat reasonable but I still get a weird feeling. Idk

ok, but why didn't you humour me, answer my questions, and see whether i'm going anywhere or using them as opposed to start acting the way you did, then start sussing me for "not trying to sort you"? like you pre-emptively decided because those questions aren't useful to you, they must not be useful to me.

also, why is it scum shitpushing you here? just wondering how you necessarily get to this conclusion. are the independent pushes from us independently likely to be scum in your eyes or is there something about the gamestate that combines these somehow

they're independent, i very very rarely to never do actual pre-flip on day one. both of your pushes are independently scummy to me, yes.

[Datisi]

Datisi (2): innocentvillager, Datisi

@mod, i'm not voting myself, i'm voting iv

btw, if you put "innocentvillager (replaces iv)" under living players in the votecounter settings in the OP, it'll start counting that nickname correctly too

[Datisi]

ico posted this meme in response to shelly calling him lamisty. From what I understand one of saudade's big tells early game at least from the two games i played with town!him is that when people are deflectiony to these early accusations in an attempt to seem like they don't care. I felt that this reaction somewhat fell into that category. You modded 2163 and saw how he used it to catch Kerset early. He caught me early as scum in 2160 with this tell as well, so I've seen a 2/2 success rate for finding scum with this tell which is incredibly high even with small sample size given the base rate should be 25%.

i don't think that's what happened in 2163. saudade caught kerset because their second vote was also non-serious, which he took as a sign of lack of scumhunting or whatever. unless i'm forgetting the early game there but i can't be fucked to go check that right now. anyway, i can see this coming from town!you but it's also relatively easily fakeable. NAI.

i think we agreed that gypyx's 60 tonally seemed somewhat towny and after questioning him I got a better sense of his thought process on those reads. i remember having him as like "null but watch this slot" which, ironically I didn't really end up doing much of between skimming catchups and shitfighting with you. i also felt that there wasn't much more to be gained from that specific interaction, it had run its course by then, so i didn't see a strong reason to keep pushing it

the interaction running its course is "fine", the first part is meh, you were just talking about giving someone breathing room when there's heat on them to be a wasted oportunity, and i'd need to see a bit more why you thought he was back to null for you, so like vaguely slightly +scum pending that response?

there, that's what i got from those two responses.

[Datisi]

hi battle mage!! you town?

[Datisi]

what's the long and short of it? how did we end up 28 pages deep with no flip? any claims etc?

no claims so far, we barely had wagons go to L-2

there's been some pushing between me and shelly and iv, i think at least one of them is scum, skim the past 3-4 pages on why
ico is very town
i have a vague townlean on your slot (please don't make me regret it)

uhh nothing really memorable has actually happened so far

pedit: oooh
may i ask why?

[Datisi]

Datisi (2): innocentvillager, Datisi

@mod i'm not self voting pls stop

pedit: i haven't self-voted once in this entire game, the vote counter is counting my "vote: iv" as a self vote, and the mod didn't like the solution is presented to him (cough 670)

it doesnt fucking work i did it lol pls make a post that contains vote:iv

[Datisi]

it doesnt fucking work i did it lol pls make a post that contains vote:iv

well then edit it into my earlier post because now the order of the votes on the wagon is wrong goddammit

[Datisi]

my initial take was Shelly could be scum here - way too eager in the early pages - but nothing solid. we do only have 1.5 days until deadline so probably time to make something happen.

voting my one scumread and thinking the other one is scum too, ohh i have good feelings for this game

[Datisi]

sure, maybe those questions make more sense "to you", but it's not just about the reads you formed or didn't form in that moment, it's about looking at your reads across the game. (and i kinda wrote about it in the above posts, but it's because you were gone for a while so i'd expect you to have Actual Thoughts on things that are happening, and having just one random townread on a person who isn't posting is lowkey lazy, not wanting to go against anyone, *and* easy to walk back from, which is behaviour often seen in scum!)

of the "reasons" you said you gave in respond to my wall I really only saw this? which you've already said you had reservations about long before my wallpost, which was still when you were "null" on me

reasons in my posts because of which i dislike your wall:
653 - you're saying that you have enough content for me to have at least some sorta opinion on you, implying that i haven't tried to form one. i'm showing that i very well have (while also pointing out that the amount of content you had produced is really not *that much*)
654 - you're saying that i'm not trying to sort you while *also* saying i'm shading you when talking to ico - my "shade" is a take (a sort?) that i have on you.
655 - you're pre-emptively saying that you don't think my questions would actually be useful for me in sorting you, that i'm faking it, while not even bothering to test that thought

and i had two townreads not one from my brief skim, the other was ydrasse but honestly still weird that you're pushing a one sentence catchup post where i say two townreads

i'm not exactly counting ydrasse townread as much becuase saying "x is town" especially when that's consensus-y is not like... a big play.

also i've said why i keep pushing that post so like

and also, I have a hard time believing you think I, of all people in this game, am scum for "not wanting to go against anyone". Am i being lazy this game? yeah, i am, is that scum indicative for me, maybe. and I really should stop responding to your walls and iso some other players but like... idk we keep getting into discussions and i currently feel the least good about you anyway.

why should i not be thinking that? like "not wanting to step on toes" is some of textbook scum behaviour... also yeah maybe you should, considering you apparently don't have a read on one third of the game so far (:

[Datisi]

BM, i'm about to pass out, ya need anything to make yourself at home here before i do that?

[Datisi]

quote the shading posts

i said 100 times that I mistaken it as shading when tbqh seems like questioning now but at first I think whole shitfight with iv seemed like iv: I'm not explaining reads dats: that's bad yet dats didn't really read iv if that makes sense?

yeah

i've seen my fair share of both town and scum acting like pricks not wanting to work with me

how is it scum!indicative/shading to not get a read off of that one action

[Datisi]

563 seemed like dats going hey iv give me explanations its concerning, while not directly sring iv, which is discrediting

"i'm not scumreading you right now but some of your actions are gonna make me start" is shading now?

is that the only quote?

[Datisi]

also extremely curious what I did that made me drop on shellyc's reads

ico i feel like your read on datisi is weirdly confident and not re-evaluated at all since rvs.

Shellyc's read progression these last 5 or so pages is so absolutely terrible that i'm gonna dedicate an entire post to it soon

i realise my scumread on datisi before terrible therefore I'm now townlean on datisi

how do you say these two quotes a minute apart

ico is getting lowered in your reads because of his weirdly confident read on me, but also he's changing you mind on me and making you think about your read on me (so you agree with him?) to the point i'm now a townlean??

[Datisi]

staarling is UTR atm and townreading consensus town isn't unreasonable.

so ydrasse continuously townreading staarling isn't unreasonable because staarling is UTR, even though both should(?) show a lack of reevaluation

also is what ico did supposed to be unreasonable?

[Datisi]

VOTE: shelly

i don't wanna repeat much but i absolutely hate those reasons (and lackof quotes) for suspecting me
also she says that ico made her reconsider but like... idk i don't see it cheif

@whoever is on vanities that aren't going anwhere/non-voting can yall pls start moving k thx

[Datisi]

no

[Datisi]

did you expect a different answer?

[Datisi]

i wasn't townreading the GB slot for reasons and the rep-out didn't exactly make me reconsider

i kinda didn't *hate* what georgebailey posted and i know he can be flaky as town too so i'm not reading too much into it
BM hasn't made me want to murder him so far so ya know

hey where did gypyx come fro-- ah right

yeah would love to see an L-1, especially since it's like *checks notes* like a day until deadline

[Datisi]

datisi, you actually townlean/read GB coming in with hipfire shots at IV and Mini?

you don't expect him to be more casual/less forced as town?

/shrug

both of those reads seemed fine to me, it didn't exactly feel forced, maybe i was getting pocketed by someone else seeing what i was seeing

like, am i 100% sure that slot is town? no, of course not, it's not a beacon of towniness by any means

but there's definitely worse people and i'd right now rather vote someone *actively scummy* than *vaguely lurker maybe-not-really-scummy*

[Datisi]

you should claim though, I'll be back later

why not put her on L-1 if you want her to claim?

pedit: lel

[Datisi]

well you're on L-2 and we have two other people saying they'd vote you but not actually doing so so probably?

also wasn't mini like decently high up?

[Datisi]

also @ydrasse i would like you to flesh out your datisi trajectory a bit more
are you still TRing there

I think
ico
iv ydrasse
staarling mini
dats
GB gypyx

i tried ctrl+f "mini" in shelly's iso but her signature is making that rather difficult lmao

pedit: UNVOTE:
huh

[Datisi]

weak crumbs

pedit: ok then you die now
VOTE: gypyx

[Datisi]

inb4 vengefull bulletproof, vig and ascetic neighbour doctor lol

[Datisi]

if gypyx is scum, he's employing the most anti-survivalistic play right now - pre-emptively claim VT, then push out a garbace solve that's against all consensus

but like i feel like i've seen play like that work enough times that it doesn't phase me

[Datisi]

+1 to ico, two claims are probably enough for the day, what's the play with running up a third one?

[Datisi]

you got thoughts on mini? she's definitely on my list to look into tomorrow

[Datisi]

You may draft posts in your notes PT but you may not talk about your notes PT in public.

shelly don't get modkilled!!! /s

and yeah, fair, but i was not talking to you

[Datisi]

i agree that like, if gypyx is scum here, the plan was to act as anti-survivalistically as possible, and failing that then giving up like this *probably* means the scumteam ain't in the best position anyway and the game is Probably Easy

BM, you don't townread me?

[Datisi]

i agree that like, if gypyx is scum here, the plan was to act as anti-survivalistically as possible, and failing that then giving up like this *probably* means the scumteam ain't in the best position anyway and the game is Probably Easy

BM, you don't townread me?

maybe true, if he flips scum. but i dont feel good about it at all - especially the way the wagon has stalled with nobody willing to hammer. Usually the sign of a town wagon. Can we really not do an alternative?

And I don't have a strong townread on you, no. Nor do I particularly scumread you. You're not on the list I'd currently be elimming except by association perhaps.

i don't think that's the case, ydrasse has said she's going to hammer, no? and like, i dunno. i started off good on gypyx. then he started lurking out, until the main wagon claimed PR, at which case he pre-emptively claimed VT and started acting as unsurvivalistically as possible which is like, not giving me Good Feels. also the whole scummy-VT-claim, never getting shot, risk of outing more PRs, *especially* this close to deadline where we potentially risk a no-elim.

how much do you factor meta into your reads? like i feel like i'm decently towny so far, especially considering the experience you have with me, so i'm kinda curious about that

[Datisi]

On Gypyx, I liked the VT claim there, I think I'd have done similar as town in the past. He didn't need to do it, and it was obviously going to get him run up. I do appreciate the point about not running up another PR, but eh...

i can see a world where town does that, sure. but i can also easily see a world where scum is bluffing like that as well. maybe i'm biased because of reasons. maybe i just really hate that ico read and it's clouding my judgment. who knows.

also, there's a huge issue with running mini up that you're not considering:

if she's scum, she's gonna claim a PR

. so either she claims VT and we kill a VT (and we're worse off than now), or she's gonna claim PR and we're left with either risking pushing through a PR execution (which is probably gonna make people pause), scrambling back onto the VT claim, running up a comical third option, all with really not a lot of time left, giving scum more info to aim night actions *and* risking a no-exe. or maybe hammering her without a claim.

like, i get the idea. i really do. but i don't think it's a good one.

[Datisi]

daddy

[Datisi]

VOTE: innocent

shelly, you're claiming no result?

BM, tldr on mini? i went through your iso, it goes from "look into mini tomorrow" to "i'm 100% it's mini, we should've been flipping her today" with... not much in-between

[Datisi]

when i'm almost due a prod and i last posted 6 posts ago

i dont think scum!datisi saves town!gypyx like that against ico/me/iv's incorrect pressure so my datisi TR has been strengthed.

why do i feel like i'm being shoved into a pocket against my will

also

@mod

V/LA for a bit (am sick, probably won't impact posting too much but just in case)

[Datisi]

Not Voting (5): Staarling, MiniMegabyte, innocentvillager,

Ydrasse

, Iconeum

With

8

alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

ydrasse is bacc?

[Datisi]

shelly if you didn't take the hint, can you ~elaborate~ on that read on me

[Datisi]

hi mini do you have reads at all

[Datisi]

shelly if you didn't take the hint, can you ~elaborate~ on that read on me

I don't feel like scum!you suddenly WKs town!gypyx with me, ico, iv pushing there. scum!you could have shown less resistance for an easier miselim

there is a specific reason why i kinda don't trust this line of reasoning but does anything that happened past page 5-10 play into this read at all?

[Datisi]

shelly, did you like... quote my 1066... and then proceed to completely ignore it?

[Datisi]

shelly, did you like... quote my 1066... and then proceed to completely ignore it?

I hate bbcode it ate away my "nah not really" for some reason

lmfao i thought

anyway, do you see why that kinda Worries me

[Datisi]

@Batlle Mage: what kind of case on Mini?

why we should elim her instead of you today. even if she isn't actually your preferred elim, i want to see your best, honest case. i'm not setting either of you up to fail - i think this could be instructive.

would you consider voting iv today, why or why not?

[Datisi]

same question from 1121 goes to staarling actually, eith a caveat of "why not vote when there's already a wagon there"

[Datisi]

i think staarling is like... a very level-zero-thinking player, and they're more likely to chase whatever is in front of them as town, which they're doing here, so uhh, yeah

[Datisi]

me/shellyc/staarling/bm town

datisi better be town, i've not seen a solid reason to scumread them and i kinda townread them but you know

*paranoia*

what tf are you paranoid about, i feel like i've way broken my scumrange on day one, as sad as that is

[Datisi]

town are me/ico/staarling/Dats

scum are iv/mini/BM, leaning towards the former two

With no surprises in the prevailing townblock we shall have a high chance of getting a red!flip today

datisi do you agree with the poe and solve here?

i think it's probably a fine PoE if shelly's town.

[Datisi]

what's your (datisi and shellyc) reasoning on iv scum?

653-657 is like the bulk of it

he also hasn't really gotten better since then so

(i'd also say lack of enthusiasm to solve but it feels like the majority of the game has been like that for thr past few days)

[Datisi]

E-1 yeah, currently it's just me and shelly

pedit: ehh, i do wanna hear more from like staarling and mini, but it's like 3 days till deadline, might as well start moving in that direction

[Datisi]

pedit: ehh, i do wanna hear more from like staarling and mini, but it's like 3 days till deadline, might as well start moving in that direction

i feel like there's a bit of town apathy/ a "we solved" feel sinking in that's making me doubt myself slightly that scum are happy with the gamestate.

/shrug, i often felt that way, and generally my thinking is "either we're stomping the game or we're not", or like, either scum is in isolated positions within the PoE and there's no way they're getting out of it, *or* they're driving the game and everyone is very complacent with the way things are going

it's a bit difficult to determine the difference without flips, so generally it's flip the lowest person in PoE, work from there

if scum, cool you're probably in universe one and everything is fine

if town, something is very wrong in the village, have fun in lylo sucker

like, i get the feeling of paranoia, trust me i do, but oftentimes there ain't much you can do but flip the next person in the PoE and go from there

[Datisi]

Unless we've got masons here (in which case i'm completely fine with a claim)

passing thought: if we *do* have masons, they very probably should claim, because masons + ungated gunsmith *in a micro* is near impossible to balance without making the game extremely unfun

[Datisi]

Mini's whole ISO is pretty much entirely a combo of complete fluff/stalling and kissing up to shelly. Not much evidence of actual scumhunting or a town mindset. In the context of this game where most players have put in some effort (Datisi, Iconeum, Shelly for instance), flipping Mini is a complete no-brainer.

^ i have no idea what anyone could possibly want, or expect, from a Mini-case. i also have no idea why we're flipping IV, but don't have a strong objection.

i think the issue here is "do you flip the actually scummy player or do you flip the lollurker that can go either way?". like mini's iso isn't great and isn't towny. yeah ok i agree. but there's been someone who i'm actively suspicious of (did you read my response to his "wallpost", 653-657?), and the only reason i can think of right now for flipping mini is the lowkey-pl of "i don't wanna be sorting this in lylo", when further flips might as well help us with that.

[Datisi]

there is a thing that ico is doing here which i think is a very solid towntell, but at some point i'll have to check his more recent scumgames, given i haven't played against scum!him for like a year by now

[Datisi]

oh goddamnit and now the fucking lolhammer

sure

lol i was waiting until you got to that part

[Datisi]

if the team turns out to be BM/staarling, with the "should i vote for iv?" "sure!" "*lolhammers*" "omg u hammer" i will laugh forever

pedit: funny you ask that

[Datisi]

for the record the above post is a 98% shitpost don't deadsheep me on it if i die and it's wrong k thx

[Datisi]

sCuMsLiP

also if i die and town reaches lylo where shelly is alive take a good look at claims etc etc

[Datisi]

sCuMsLiP
also if i die and town reaches lylo where shelly is alive take a good look at claims etc etc

no no no

we are going to lylo together :p

->if neither of us is scum, they'll take us because paranoia
->if one of us is scum, they'll take us because pocket

shut the fuck up let me die goDDAMMIT

[Datisi]

TecHnIcAlLy add another person for it to be lylo and for the sentence to still be logically correct!

[Datisi]

i'm just gonna pretend that won't happen so if iv does flip scum i can gloat tomorrow how i wasn't nervous At All during that twilight

[Datisi]

you see, the joke is that saying that implies you know tomorrow is lylo
which makes you caught scum

[Datisi]

y e e t

VOTE: mini

[Datisi]

[SE hat] staarling, never ever hammer like that again. it worked out wonderfully this time, but if iv had flipped green, this would've been a lost game now. [/SE hat]

anyway. i don't think massclaim is *necessary* right now? in the case of the day's exe flipping green, i think it gives more info for scum where to shoot than it gives us info what to do

(unless someone has spicy results in which case go ahead)

[Datisi]

i think there's like... A Reason why i'm alive right now, and i wanna see if i'm right on that Reason

ico, scum isn't multitasking by default in normals, however in this game they are

pedit: thank you shelly very cool

[Datisi]

i think there's like... A Reason why i'm alive right now, and i wanna see if i'm right on that Reason

paranoia?

I'm not sure there's much to be paranoid about you

you're TRing ico but so am I

i mean, you heard what ico said, if he's scum here, he's taking me to lylo so :p

no, there's something specific i saw while reskimming isos yesterday, you can remind me later

pedit: a lot of mods don't allow concessions, plus do you *really* think BM would concede a game?

ppedit: probably not, no
i'm still tring ico, and shelly Might Actually Be Town here

[Datisi]

why later and not now dats?

bringing it up now would defeat the chance to see if i'm right

just trust me on this one and gimme a bit of time ok

[Datisi]

and truth be told, yeah i'm slightly paranoid about you being alive :p

this @ shelly or me? :p

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

that rep out was for NAI reasons but otherwise maaaaaaybe

[Datisi]

hot take: night choices wifom benefits scum way more than town

this post was brought to you by the "i'm still salty about undertale" gang

[Datisi]

also?

[Datisi]

daddy.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

hmm.

[Datisi]

ico what you on about?

[Datisi]

shelly pointed out her crumb earlier this game too, no?

also, i'm not overly surprised mini claimed PR, and i'm thinking if this is solved via massclaim...

[Datisi]

ico, depends on the mod philosophy i think

after certain setups, i'm afraid of saying "no way X role is in the game"

pedit: huuuuuuuh
i have a hunch what might be going on here

[Datisi]

subtlety isn't your strong suit, is it

[Datisi]

full doc, full gunsmith...

with the chances of the last scum being a scum doc being very-very-slim-to-none, gunsmith *probably* acts as a cop here...

[Datisi]

can you elaborate on those reads?

[Datisi]

can you elaborate on those reads?

Do you mean you want me to explain why I read the way I do?

yeah sure, let's go with that

[Datisi]

Well with Datisi/Ico I will really have to read isos a thousand times to see if anything sticks out as either alignment because right now I cant see anything to base a read on.

can't

see anything

to base a read on

[Datisi]

with all due respect mini, have you *read* the game?

[Datisi]

then please go back and read it

because saying you don't have anything to base a read on ico, or on *me*, in this economy, is completely asinine

[Datisi]

I haven’t read in detail I have just skimmed and to be honest I probably should have replaced out considering most of the game I’ve been in hospital but I wanted to play cause it’s not often I get a Town PR so I have not read the game in depth

forgot to mention earlier, but probably shouldn't make arguments regarding your role and repping/not repping out, there was recently a ban because of that

also that is a very NAI thing you were sus of ico for

[Datisi]

In a normal case, if both you and BM are flipped (green), assuming 2 nightkills, this game is LONG over by the time i need to worry about something like that.

how confident are you on both me/shelly being town? and how much will you be around on weekend

[Datisi]

that's fine, maybe i'm just getting impatient

can i also turn this around and ask if you still agree with 'the solve' and are equally confident in shellyc and me?

if you had asked me like 6 hours ago, i probably would've easily bet the game on a mini/bm solve

and i'm not exactly surprised mini claimed PR (because otherwise scum!her is definitely dying) though i guess it's still making my level of confidence drop slightly, at least until the massclaim is over and i can try to work that out

[Datisi]

Gypyx being all town would be pretty implausible.

is there any ~deeper~ reasoning for this other than "there's probably scum on the day one misexe"?

[Datisi]

2) Gypyx wagon formation was super fast and I don't feel like its all town if it was rushed/artificial

it's this?

i think i remember a micro normal game which had a similar thing happen on day one, it was a sorta rushed deadline misexecute, and it was an all-town wagon

though i'm probably playing devil's advocate more than i should be right now