Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[midwaybear]

Who are the scum avoiding comment?

[midwaybear]

I feel like most people have some kind of stance except for the lurkers. Who's votes on wagon are scummy?

[midwaybear]

This will be a long game.

[midwaybear]

Hi guys! Nice job
Did anyone receive a non peach overnight?

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Maria
I think I'm going to vote her(e) for now. I was thinking that Spring Breeze's progression on MariaR looked pretty bad.
Idk about PrivateI. I thought 572 was a townslip, but a teammate disagreed.

[midwaybear]

I was expecting Murdercat to die. I wonder why spf was killed.

[midwaybear]

Anybody thinking that Zaiden looks good from Spring's red flip?

[midwaybear]

I'm not going to say anything about these posts quite yet but take a look at these and tell me what you guys think

He does seem very confident in the red flip.
I will say that I don't really see the value in powerbussing besides WIFOM.

[midwaybear]

Interesting that Pink Ball received a lot of peaches. I would have thought him to be a prime NK target.

[midwaybear]

what do you see besides the power bussing :3?

He's calling you scum w/ Spring Breeze?

[midwaybear]

Ohhh, that makes sense. Dang, my mafia brain doesn't make these sort of connections yet.

[midwaybear]

Pink Ball, what makes you think there is a watcher?

Btw if you think any wolf team with me on it allows SPF to be a nk I'm offended

What do you mean by this?

[midwaybear]

What do you mean by this?

What part of my statement was hard for you to understand?

I was wondering why you would feel offended that people think you made the SPF nightkill.

[midwaybear]

Whaaaaat, so people are saying that their scumkills would be town with bad reads and non-obvious town

The fruits have individual flavors, and thus cannot be successfully counterclaimed

My night 1 says otherwise...

[midwaybear]

This game isn't broken by flavor. Nobody said that peach variety had to be unique.

[midwaybear]

Wow, a lot of these votes seem pretty weak to me(mine included, at least in isolation).

[midwaybear]

I personally can't imagine being like "oh wow this person made some scummy posts but this person is MUCH scummier so that means that the former is probably more likely town". You don't have the flip of the second person in your hand so I would think it's more likely that you just scumread both.

It does seem like Private thought that PB/SB was some kind of scum/town interaction, so I think it makes sense?

[midwaybear]

Like that's the kind of post scum makes to start distancing while holding off in case the wagon/case goes away

It's also the kind of post I would make as town.

[midwaybear]

if this is the case then it's not really convincing.

Yeah

[midwaybear]

You townreading Spring Breeze was also pretty funny!

[midwaybear]

You townreading Spring Breeze was also pretty funny!

can we not dude

Sure, what are your reads?

[midwaybear]

jsyk I feel this is a more common thing for town to bring up than scum

Is it? I don't even think the point Noraa made was applicable to this game, and I'm not really sure what prevents scum Noraa from using it to defend her buddy.

[midwaybear]

oh hey, i'm having MT as a slight SR personally, mainly for clidd's (slot he repped in) behaviour, and MT's ISO is just a huge void in my eyes

What's scummy about clidd's behavior, and why is her iso being a huge void scummy?

[midwaybear]

I also felt it wasn't exactly applicable but it's the thought that counts I think, it seemed like a close enough instance that I understand Noraa's thinking to an extent, and I myself have used similar logic to read people, to mixed success iirc.

Ok, but why do you think that doesn't come from a mindset where Noraa is trying to find reasons to defend her buddy?
Also, what about 1176 made you townread Maria(PS Dunn hasn't taken a look at Maria yet).

[midwaybear]

clidd basically dropped a buch of meta on you then repped out, and according to iv he has a meta of being a very good townplayer, but disliking very much being scum

so like, idk, i feel like if he was town, even if life had him busy, he would at least try to solve?

I was actually a bit concerned about this because clidd is playing in a game right now.
I think saying Morning has not been solving is somewhat of a stretch.

[midwaybear]

I could vote Gypyx if Maria doesn't pan out.

[midwaybear]

And I don't like this reaction

What is scummy about my reaction? The quote you brought up originally is just NAI.

[midwaybear]

wait why do you SR Maria? What's Dunn's thoughts on her rn?

I thought Spring Breeze's progression on Maria looked pretty bad. Spring had this consistent paranoia of "why are people townreading Maria", but also put Maria at light town.
Dunn hasn't taken a look

[midwaybear]

It feels like a handwave. I don't think anyone can legitimately argue the original post doesn't look bad in light of SB's flip.

Yeah, I will admit that I understand why one may scumread that post I made. I was just arguing with you over it because I know I'm town and that you are wrong, but it probably wouldn't be helpful.

[midwaybear]

I'm sure the scumteam is very capable, and I wouldn't give them any more motivation.

[midwaybear]

got em.
you really couldn't resist getting defensive to my elaborate trap?

ah yes. another pet tell that I like but may or may not be real.

I've definitely seen it be real, and I would believe that mwb might fall for it.

I was trying to go for a KD Burner joke there.

[midwaybear]

u got any hot takes mwb?

No...
(Uh oh!)

[midwaybear]

Gamma is on the hunt!

[midwaybear]

Fine by me. You're cooperating, that's enough

Woah, so this has turned into follow the leader?

[midwaybear]

By the way, it is interesting that SB forgot Gamma, PrivateI, and me from her readslist.
I wonder if we are all town because I feel like scum typically would give some form of read about their buddy. I get that Gamma and PrivateI were pretty low presence, but I don't think you forget your scumbuddy exists. I suppose it could be a way to gain cred post flip, but Spring probably wasn't even being bussed that heavily so why bother.
It's also worth noting that Spring Breeze then remembered she forgot Gamma, PrivateI (which looks good for me). This might nullify what I just said.
pedit: lol I was shading Pink Ball for seemingly townreading people who do what he wants
ppedit: I gueses.

[midwaybear]

whilst mena isn't playing here directly, I think he's playing through MariaR in a way that indicates that group isn't solving this game in an honest way.

Why you think Maria scum decides to project that Noraa scumread through Menalque instead of herself(who actually was in that game)?

[midwaybear]

@Pink Ball That's good to hear. As for your second part, I guess we have been mostly forgettable? Idk

@Gamma I think mena might have been spectating that game.

[midwaybear]

has anyone seen scum actually do something like that with deliberate intent?

Yeah, in this case, Kanna would have to intentionally fake forgetting a couple of names presumably to bait people into doing what I just did. I want to say this probably didn't happen, but I also don't want to underestimate the scumz.
I still think they are very capable

[midwaybear]

I think I have been a lot more under the radar after I stopped tryharding.

[midwaybear]

How do we know it was absolutely calculated?
Well, if it was, then there might be a scum between Gamma/PrivateI

[midwaybear]

if it was just meant as bait I'd feel like it's probably NAI, or at least too drenched with wine to be worth reading into

I think if it was bait, there are more interesting players to throw in the pool!

[midwaybear]

Remember the context, my dudes. Spring is desperate 'cause she knows a hurricane is coming. She doesn't just forgets reads. She's forging them. She needs insights. But taking a stance on PI is so hard that she had to avoid it

Why would taking a stance on PrivateI be hard? She could probably just give some generic nullscum read like she did with Jake.
Also, are you not townreading Murdercat? I felt like he was super town off of the Kanna flip.

[midwaybear]

Also, are you not townreading Murdercat? I felt like he was super town off of the Kanna flip.

Really?

Murdercat:
- hard pushed Cakez
- voted SB when the wagon was already high (6th vote if I counted right)
- did not unvote when SB softed, but unvoted when she claimed (in a way that was directly contradictory to her soft), saying he needed more time to think about it
- continued to shade her, including saying "let's just flip her" twice... but also suggested starting wagons on both Cakez and Maria
- didn't revote her ever

Also, he sticks out like a sore thumb if you look at a comparison of SB's reads to the playerlist sorted by post count (2589); he is in the middle by post count but at the top of her reads, which might imply an ulterior motive for putting him there.

I had that Murder was solidly town because I thought that Kanna would push him herself instead of using Infinity as a medium and I think the progression was reasonable.
I don't really see what is wrong with voting Cakez instead of Spring Breeze. I think unvoting at her claim is not super suspicious (after all most people were pretty hesitant at that time). I'm not sure shading her while proposing alternatives is necessarily AI.

[midwaybear]

What is the advantage?

[midwaybear]

I like Cheet telling Jake to stop shitposting and play the game

Why?

[midwaybear]

Update: it may not have been a peach? It doesn't specify. It just says a particular variety. Do the rest of y'all's specifically say "peach"?

You might want to ask the mod about that.

[midwaybear]

I mean they aren't just scummy for lurking they all have bad associations around the SB wagon day 1

Why are you paranoid then?

[midwaybear]

@mwb, could you poke Dunn for an analysis of Maria's play?

He is leaning town there.
UNVOTE:

[midwaybear]

Ready to end this day.
VOTE: PrivateI

[midwaybear]

Good stuff Pink ball. I might need to reconsider my Murder townread. I was thinking Noraa looked good from interactions with Spring, but her play has not been townie imo.

[midwaybear]

Yes, very obv town that PrivateI has decided not to address the wagon on him.

[midwaybear]

maybe you can talk about the votes on you. It’s a little suspicious that you are generally acting like there is no wagon on you.
I’m actually voting you because of that, not because Kanna did not put you in her read list. I agree that there are many potential reasons for the exclusion, and it doesn’t point towards you being scum.

[midwaybear]

But if that's the case ... then maybe he didnt get his own peach cuz he was RBed or something.

But he still got watcher results though.
Yeah, I'm not super sure why Pink Ball apparently didn't receive his own peach then? I don't want to jump to any conclusions yet.

Also, I DID receive a peach with the same flavor as my own. I was sorta alluding to this earlier in the day, so that is a thing.

[midwaybear]

PB *did* receive his own peach

Why did he ask Jingle if he enjoyed the Loring then? Am I missing something?

[midwaybear]

FYI, I did not receive a peach with my own variety.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Close Thread

[midwaybear]

I actually think murder is town. I don’t think this kill is a good sign(in general).

[midwaybear]

I’m actually leaning SS over MT right now. I got this read mostly off of a quick iso skim in the few minutes since my last post.
VOTE: SS
I actually thought there was a chance Pink Ball was scum big braining. I guess this proves the Occam theorem again.

[midwaybear]

I will resist the urge to say I told you so

Let’s be real...this is basically saying “I told you so”

[midwaybear]

pooky shouldn't get to coast this cycle.

Yes, but I think a problem with "not letting people coast" is that it places too much of an emphasis on those people.
Also, I think people coasting(Jake/Pooky style) generally happen to be town more often than not.

[midwaybear]

My team really really wants Maria dead

Why?

PI had to go I don't regret that elim he was dead weight and would have been a disaster in potential LyLo

With that logic, I think Jake would also be a good flip. How much do you want Jake dead?

I lean MT but don't have a strong feeling about it
Noraa looks worse with the PB flip

Why?

[midwaybear]

Actually, I might be open to voting Pooky, but I feel relatively decent about Jake.
What's your take on MT/SS?

[midwaybear]

i'm a compulsive vendor of "Dixie Red Peaches"

Wasn't this Spring Breeze's fakeclaim?
I wonder if mafia got "unique" fakeclaims.

[midwaybear]

MT? Cheetory?

[midwaybear]

I think its a good sign. I highly doubt watcher is our strongest pr.

Well, I was thinking...
if there is some kind of protective(based off of the strongman), then scum have found a way to neutralize it.

[midwaybear]

why do we ever rush this day?

I hope we aren't.

Pooky, why are you scumreading MT?
pedit: for the memes?

[midwaybear]

I checked timestamps and Morning's last post that day was before SB claimed to be a dixie red peach vendor.
I will probably just believe that she didn't see that claim and was offline. The question now shifts towards whether we think the mod would provide a fakeclaim that overlaps with a town role. I think this is more like to happen if town fruit are not unique which doesn't seem to be the case (but I might be wrong).
I also think that if MT/SB are w/w. It's quite weird for them to fakeclaim the same role lol(but there could be WIFOM involved here)

[midwaybear]

SPF, pink ball lol

[midwaybear]

nah if morning is scum, this isn't wifom. Probably just a "oopsie I took your fakeclaim and forgot to tell you"

Why do you think Spring Breeze choose to steal a VT fake claim?

[midwaybear]

and also, i think someone claimed duplicate fruit flavor receied

If you're thinking about me, that was corrected by mod error.

[midwaybear]

I'm pretty sure this game was confirmed to be 14:4.

[midwaybear]

I might have been thinking about the large normal then. I think you will be nightkilled if MT flips red, so why not just claim?

[midwaybear]

still reading but MT looks far worse than S_S from SB flip

In what way?

[midwaybear]

iirc S_S was much more eager to push SB
I don't think scum were very happy bussing day 1

Why don't you think they were fine with bussing? Pink Ball's case probably spurred some to jump on wagon.

[midwaybear]

I don't think MT/Noraa are scum together because I wouldn't expect 1430 to be a thing.
What was PB's take?

[midwaybear]

It's interesting that MT and SS both don't really seem to care. I guess I get why for SS if he is town. If MT is town, I would hope for a bit more though. Maybe a final readslist or something
Some people said that they don't want to rush the day, but not much seems to be going on in terms of new pushes?

[midwaybear]

Makes sense to me

[midwaybear]

Spoiler:

Spring to PrivateI (Maf to town)
456 - basic engagement about PI scumread on her
536 - Shades PI scumread of her, but takes a generally neutral stance
979 - Says she likes Noraa taking a good faith approach to Private, says she thinks PrivateI scumread is overhyped. Potential TMI town
1624 - Forgets PI from readlist
2546 Bottom tier of her readlist

Spring to Jake (Maf to ?)
536 - agrees with spf on her Jake read. I think she was referring to 512 where spf gave a randtown read on Jake
625 - finds spf townie in part for "deductions" on Jake
1288 - thinks jake is a lot more deserving of criticism out of the "lhf" slots
1622 - calls jake lhf, but also notes that he should not be townread
2544 - thinks SS is setting the bar too low for a townread on Jake, consistent in saying that nothing Jake has done has really been townie, doesn't think Jake's reaction to early wagon was townie
2545 - (Note that this is right after 2544) Again, doesn't want people to be "overlooking" Jake. Seems like she views him as a policy elim
2546 - Bottom tier of the readlist, second to last
2646 - (Referring to 1622) Says that Jake would be quite low on her readslist, but it wasn't ordered

I took a look at Kanna's interactions with PrivateI to get a sense of how she would interact with a LHF-type townie.
First of all, she doesn't seem to directly interact with them too much. I actually think this makes sense because there is a lot more incentive to interact/distance with a LHF scumbuddy than a LHF townie.
Second, I think her progression was a bit off. In 979, she seemed much more good faith towards PrivateI, but he sat at the bottom of her reads in 2546. I do think there are reasons that PrivateI could have fallen, but I also think town Kanna would have been more transparent about it.

Looking at how she interacts with Jake, I see consistency and inconsistency in the progression. I'm curious about why she went from agreeing with spf's randtown read on Jake to thinking that he deserves more scrutiny in 1288. From there on, Kanna was relatively consistent in stating that Jake should not be townread for his content. I think an important observation to make here is that her view in general was that Jake should

not be townread

instead of Jake should be

scumread

.

What looks good for Jake here is that Kanna's progression roughly resembled her progression on PrivateI: from a nulltown read to a scumread.
Originally, I thought Kanna's repeated insistence against Jake was a bad look for him. I thought that scum have more of an incentive to distance from LHF scumbuddies while they might just tack a noncommittal scumread onto LHF town. However, with context, I realized that she just was being pushed more about her read on Jake than PrivateI (SS, spf). In addition, I think my observation about her

not townreading

Jake rather than

scumreading

fits in more with noncommittal scumread rather than distance.

From this, I think that Jake is probably town based off of interactions. I get that people are annoyed that he isn't providing content, but I also think there are ways to read people exclusive from that they post.

[midwaybear]

Midwaybear, I hath heard from sources reliable that your ISO today is garbage. Can you expand a little bit on why you chose to vote me? Why did you only do a "quick ISO skim" when you had the whole night to decide between me and MT?

I voted you because I thought MT had some townie interactions with Kanna while yours were more NAI. Now morning has basically given up and idk
I did the quick ISO skim because I thought Pink Ball could be scum (silly, I know).

[midwaybear]

Midwaybear, why did you make 9?

Because I thought scum wouldn’t soft fruit vendor so early on. Now, I think it is possible.

[midwaybear]

his comes across very strongly as "MWB doesn't realize there's a fuckton of FV's" in a way that I don't think scum thinks to fake, and there were a bunch of FV softs early D1 that led me to the conclusion that scum would definitely know there were multiple FV's

I don’t really understand this reasoning. You’re saying that scum would conclude that there were multiple FV by the middle of the day while I made that post very early. Also, scum probably are all fv or something, so they would probably know that everyone is fv instantly

[midwaybear]

Do you not think that my push was too active to be a bus? iirc I was one of the strongest pushers of SB aside from PB.

I mean that’s what makes it a strong bus. I don’t see why I should be townreading you for doing so.
WRT to you thinking town you wouldn’t be pushing so hard
Well... isn’t that what you’re claiming to have done as town

[midwaybear]

I will take a look at more interactions tomorrow.
Did no one see what I wrote about Jake? Why do people only read what I put in spoilers when I am town

[midwaybear]

Yeah, my peach flavor was changed

[midwaybear]

I thought that scum wouldn’t soft their role, but I think they could.
I’m still reading murder as town from interactions though.

[midwaybear]

I still don’t really agree with you because I don’t really understand those arguments.

[midwaybear]

Pink Ball watched PrivateI, MT, SS to spf n1. We don’t think there is a ninja

[midwaybear]

How tf did PB watch 3 people at once?

Watcher is a role that sees who visited your targeted player, so it's possible to get more than one person as a result if more than one person visits your target.

@Noraa I'll locktown you if you give me an interactions analysis taking a look at Kanna/Gamma and Kanna/Gypyx

[midwaybear]

I received a Ventura peach and it hasn't seemed to me all day long that a townie sent it to me.

A bunch of people haven't claimed their fruit flavor yet, so it's possible that one of the unclaimed gave you a Ventura.

pedit: ???

[midwaybear]

I don't think there is any drawback in playing the day out. Normally, town apathy might be a thing, but I don't think it will be an issue here.
Various people are working on various things. If you have nothing to do, you can take a look at Spring/Cakez and Spring/Cheetory and write your thoughts.

[midwaybear]

This is different because we are in a thunderdome.
Also, people are still working on things. If you have nothing to do, you can look at Kanna interactions.

[midwaybear]

And its horrible that I have to say I have like zero TRs at this point in time and its day 3 and im in the middle of a pile of SRs and nulls and its like horrible.

Giving things the old Flavor Leaf try huh

[midwaybear]

who even cares can we hammer MT?

bruh people are still doing stuff

[midwaybear]

VOTE: MT
bruh gotta make myself look better on this final votecount

[midwaybear]

Cop on Maria

[midwaybear]

Yo what is up. I think scum thought Jake was a PR based on his interaction with Gypyx earlier.

[midwaybear]

If something smart is town, then scum probably don't have a roleblocker and instead town has a protective.

[midwaybear]

Despite having said all of that, I still think this kill means that we should keep things more open.
Zaiden is probably my top town right now. I'm townleaning Cheetory and Gypyx.

[midwaybear]

midway need you to actually claim your # of peaches today.

Why?

[midwaybear]

I don't really understand why it is too useful. I think basically everyone is guaranteed to be a peach vendor, town or mafia, VT or PR.
I think Jingle revealing the pie mech is useful, but yeah don't really get why I need to claim my peaches.

[midwaybear]

I also have a pie-adjacent thing I can do that's related to that information.

So you can make a different kind of food?

[midwaybear]

I gave my peach to Jakethewolf and I received one peach.

[midwaybear]

I'm here. Pooky you scumreading Cheetory?

[midwaybear]

Zzzz

[midwaybear]

What exactly is unclear?

did pooky visit jingle and jake or just jake?

Good question. Cheetory, why didn't you respond to this, but respond to Murder's 4867?

[midwaybear]

*4864
I like Jingle's posting today btw. But whenever I try to make reads based off of "liking" someone's posts, it has mixed results.

[midwaybear]

I don't understand the question

Probably asking if Pooky was the only result you got back on your watch?
Watching Jake is interesting

[midwaybear]

midway need you to actually claim your # of peaches today.

Why did you ask me this instead of asking my night actions?

[midwaybear]

theres no way we have 2 watchers

VOTE: cheetory

I think there are ways this could happen. You don't think Cheet is town with a screwy result anymore?

[midwaybear]

Do we know what pie does?

I think it depends on your peaches? At the very least, it grants you some kind of power.

[midwaybear]

i thought he was town when he said he was a tracker but like why the hell would we have 2 watchers lol

I definitely think it's possible. Don't want to setup spec too hard though. There's a couple of possibilities running through my head.

[midwaybear]

Well, I did visit Jake too. Did you see anyone else?

[midwaybear]

Oh yeah that's true. Yep, that's definitely suspicious.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Pooky
One vote to hammer I think

[midwaybear]

Anyone want my peach?

I'll take it.

[midwaybear]

lol i actually didn't give PB a peach N2

[midwaybear]

Anyone want my peach?

I'll take it.

Yum

Thanks?

[midwaybear]

Who did you give a peach to? Why? Why was that never brought up by you or them?

Umm, the person I gave it to can claim if they want.
My rationale was that I didn't really see the point in giving one person the peaches, and I gave a peach to a townread I didn't think was dying.

[midwaybear]

why do you think midway is safe?

I don't think clidd writes this about a scumbuddy
544

[midwaybear]

ok well I probably just want to yeet maria tomorrow

Maria doesn't seem to be playing like a scum.
idk though

[midwaybear]

Yea, cuz she has not been changing any part of her play which now just feels townie.
But yeah, won't be too sad if she flips red, just don't think it is murder either lol

[midwaybear]

Pooky did say the way S_S didn’t push Morning seemed indicative that they were both scum

Seems like scum trying to keep the options open tbh

[midwaybear]

Also, here were my thoughts coming into the day
Don’t want: Jingle, Noraa, Zaiden
Don’t want today: Murder, Maria SS
Could compromise: Gypyx
Don’t townlean: Cakez, Gamma
Of course, we should take things slow, and I will review the game.

[midwaybear]

I mean then there is probably no protective or it is gated. In the case that there is a protective, I think they have played a great game

[midwaybear]

Despite townleaning murder coming in to the day, his first post didn’t really sit well with me. I’m not sure why town him chooses to lock the options into him/Maria. I get that he scumreads Maria, so it’s more of including himself in the elim pool that isn’t too great. He can argue that “the game is already won”, but that’s some morning tweet logic right there.

[midwaybear]

I townread Zaiden’s early stance on Pooky/Spring Breeze, and him getting confused at why Maria was townreading Spring Breeze. I don’t know if he cares about that as scum.

[midwaybear]

i could see a world where it's noraa tbh, but other than that idk, poe is getting pretty small

I thought this a while ago too.

[midwaybear]

despite the fact that he's gone AFK the last few days.

Activity is my biggest scumread factor on murder right now.

[midwaybear]

@Jake
No, so if he is actually busy, then it isn’t too big of a concern. I just think most scum wouldn’t be very motivated to play the game right now, and he is the only one somewhat afk.
Also, aren’t you ... dead?

[midwaybear]

This isn't even ATE

[midwaybear]

Hmm I swear there was something confirming that this game had 4 scum.
I will review some things to determine my vote on murder. I'm expecting someone to vote him before I complete my review.

[midwaybear]

Why not just vote? You can review post game/overnight if there are 2 scum left

I still think Murder could be town.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, well then someone else can vote you. I tend to not vote people I think are town. Now this failed with MT, but that was sort of rushed. Maybe I will convince myself that you could be scum.

[midwaybear]

Jingle - Empress
Gypyx - Crestheaven
noraa - Springprince
Zaiden - Hearken
Something_Smart - Rio Grande
SirCakez - Galaxy Donut (lol)
Gamma Emerald - Honey Babe
Murdersunny - Redglobe
Maria - I think I know what hers is?
midwaybear - Pix Zee

[midwaybear]

murder, you'll do your VCA stuff soon?

Yes

[midwaybear]

msunny’s case just makes it feel more assured

Are you serious here? Can you talk about what made you switch your vote?
I wouldn’t even call it a case.
For the record, I still don’t haven’t read back on anything, but I mostly don’t understand what made you switch so quickly.

[midwaybear]

Probably, even if he is town, it would still be helpful

[midwaybear]

5202 It ain't much. Pushing MT and feeling average about Pooky are totally feasible options as scum imo. Iirc, you didn't really push MT, but it was more like throwing suspicion at her? If I'm wrong, you can pull up quotes. Also, I don't know if this game is completely binary between you and murder right now. You said you were sus on Noraa, and I actually thought that a little as well. Maybe you can dive into others like Noraa. We have time, and there's no need to rush as long as we're using it well.

5207 Nothing about Gypyx's posts have given me that impression. Also, Murder isn't even ATEing really.

which is something I definitely didn't know and assume many others didn't either. I don't think scum would bring their partner into the spotlight like that.

I actually think Gypyx's scumread on clidd might have been too good to be true.
Of course, I don't want to scumread people for being too good, but I normally don't see people scumread for making six ok posts and then replacing out without relation to the game.

Also, this might have been missed. But my read on Maria has shifted to lean-town because she has changed virtually nothing about her play. Her general trend for the beginning few days has been to push a couple of reads and make some hammers. I think it was initially suspicious, but I think the repeated nature of it makes it somewhat townie.
That being said, some people were saying that Spring's interactions with Maria looked good for her. These people pulled up quotes where Spring had paranoia on Maria iirc. I think I actually thought that those interactions were scummy at the time because the paranoia could be TMI Maria scum. Definitely need to revisit that and expand my thoughts.
Also, agree with Jingle about apathy. I'm guilty of it too, but I'm also slightly more optimistic that we'll be able to figure things out (fingers crossed).

Even if the Murder case wasn't that good, these responses read scummily to me.

What reads scummily? This is completely unhelpful, and it makes you look a little scummy. Come on, give us some more

[midwaybear]

Also, we have two flipped power roles, and there probably should be more?
Right now, with only watchers flipped, it seems like a lot of our power is based around that role. I'm not sure if we only have two TPRs and watchers get somewhat stronger as game goes on? I don't think we should massclaim, but it is definitely an option and could provide a nice spark for the game.
However, I do think scum are incentivized to fakeclaim watcher here, and I'm not sure if I can tell between a real and fakeclaim.
Hmm

[midwaybear]

Why are people townreading Gamma? I think he has been extremely underwhelming and is being townread for doing nothing.
I see that he has softed some kind of role, but he still doesn't inspire much confidence.

[midwaybear]

I’d be happy to hear another view mwb

I wouldn't put it past him to fake any of that as scum. I remember townreading him for similar reasons in a secret alt game where he was scum.
Forgetting Pooky flipped scum is just WIFOM and shouldn't be used to make a read upon imo.
Not being aware of the plan to vend fruit to Cheetory points more towards not being aware of the thread in general which is nai.
His softclaim is probably a bit more complicated, but him wanting to play it cagey with his results seems more like scum secrecy than town. I do remember you pointing out he softed a while back, and that might change my mind.

[midwaybear]

Murder, Gypyx
top townreads?

[midwaybear]

Why is SS townie to you? Also, what's your read on Jingle?

[midwaybear]

SS was watched by Cheet? Which night was this? Hmm I do remember Pooky pushing SS/MT though. That's a good point.
My townread on Jingle mostly comes from 1251 because I have never seen scum vote their buddy without giving any reasons.

[midwaybear]

S_S was watched on spf N1 alongside monty / MT

Hm, did you mean Pink Ball then?
I also do think it's more likely that scum would group up early in the game before they knew watcher existed.
The counterpoint to this is that scum would be motivated to send fruit to their buddies more as well.

5245 idk. I think it was before?

[midwaybear]

Everyone should pick either Murder or Gypyx so we can move on

What happened to your Maria scumread?

[midwaybear]

I buy the arguments that have been presented that she doesn't make sense as scum here

Whose arguments? I don't think many are townreading her here

[midwaybear]

Weren't you the one super annoyed about this town?
pedit: @Jingle

[midwaybear]

Maria, did you ever explain why you townread Spring Breeze?

[midwaybear]

I don't have enough energy to fight over which of Murder/Gyp/Maria gets yeeted first tbf

What is your preferred order and why?

[midwaybear]

What mechanics do we have at our disposal

Ok, looks like Gamma isn't a power role.

[midwaybear]

Jingle where did Gamma Emerald soft?

[midwaybear]

Not yet. I’m asking teammate about something that might be helpful.

[midwaybear]

alrighty

It might come tomorrow though

[midwaybear]

if this is town Murder tomorrow

No you

[midwaybear]

Dang I was scumsiding a lot this game then

[midwaybear]

What is the point of pies?

[midwaybear]

No peaches
Time to murder MURDER

[midwaybear]

Can we get a massclaim?
pedit: Ok, but what's the purpose of stealing peaches and seeing what others have?

[midwaybear]

Yeah, peaches don't seem to serve any purpose besides forming these pies which allow you to steal from others and view their inventory? Maybe there's more to the inventory mech, but I'm not super sure.

[midwaybear]

I'm kinda worried all three of us are town tbh

Name alternative suspects

How about you?

[midwaybear]

Pooky was really willing to push Cake though.

Yeah, that did happen. I am still annoyed at his lolhammer though, and the lack of concern.

[midwaybear]

Could it just be gamma?

Maybe. Gamma, you should probably claim.

[midwaybear]

Something Smart hasn't died either, but my theory is that SS is actually VT. idk if scum think that too, but he was acting like a PR on D2.

[midwaybear]

@murder are you just saying it's Gamma here?
I am legit interested in your opinion

What happened to "Murder is scum trying to widen POE!"

[midwaybear]

Because Murder is dying today no matter what

Why do you find him scummy? I'm not a fan of you continuing this POE approach, and not really thinking. At least act like you are solving between Murder/Gypyx/...

[midwaybear]

before anything major happens I need to read a few posts over

What's the status?

[midwaybear]

Why are you so cryptic

[midwaybear]

Go big.
Where is Gamma?

[midwaybear]

potentially the scummiest thing said all game

I agree. Well maybe not the scummiest, but it is somewhat questionable.

@Cakez We can yeet Murder if Gamma towns it up cuz idk what he is doing rn

[midwaybear]

I was asking Dunn to see how he was reading Maria. Because I was getting a little suspicious near the end.

[midwaybear]

I cc cop

[midwaybear]

I don't think murder is trolling. He seems demotivated, so I think he would tell his alignment for real.

[midwaybear]

Does Cakez recent play outweigh his interactions?

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I was thinking that town probably look pretty scummy when demotivated. But idk, he has been pushing ML without caring at all

[midwaybear]

Cfv

[midwaybear]

@Gamma this was my preferred order entering Day 5

Also, here were my thoughts coming into the day
Don’t want: Jingle, Noraa, Zaiden
Don’t want today: Murder, Maria SS
Could compromise: Gypyx
Don’t townlean: Cakez, Gamma
Of course, we should take things slow, and I will review the game.

Sir Cakez has been the one pushing miselims.
Also, my first instinct was that Zaiden’s fruit ability doesn’t have to do with role knowledge? Idk.

[midwaybear]

And like, you know where I’m at m8

What does this mean?

[midwaybear]

That’s a weird thing to thunk

[midwaybear]

Which I find pretty odd because surely it should have shown me visiting Midwaybear for this result.

Well why don't you clarify this with the mod

[midwaybear]

What do you think was out of his scumrange

Not Gypyx, but the first few irl days of this game I could not have done as scum.

Also, people seem to be forgetting that Cheet watched both Pooky and me to Jake. It's not a hard clear, but something to think about.

[midwaybear]

Midway has been taking potshots at me for a while now and it irks me

that's the point lol

[midwaybear]

potshots?

I have been making comments about Cakez pushing miselims for the past few days. That's probably unhelpful, but what seems scummy to me is that Cakez doesn't seem to really care that he just drove two green flips. I would expect more paranoia, nervousness, and less confidence from him.

Mostly just that he hasn't really felt towny and when he's town he usually does?

Also, my past few towngames probably aren't obvtown

[midwaybear]

...

Townie reaction though
Since SS supposedly scumreads me, I would expect more annoyance if he didn't scumread me. Possible he just makes this as a general comment as scum, but it is a though to consider.

[midwaybear]

I think lilith's reasoning is mostly PoE

Why does she townread everyone else?

[midwaybear]

Fair.
Can Gypyx, Gamma, and Cakez please claim their inventories?

[midwaybear]

No, but I think it might be useful.

[midwaybear]

stop stalling bruh

[midwaybear]

WHy do you think you will regret it? What is the downside?

[midwaybear]

scum knowing who to kill

You are a POE player, so it is fine if scum kill you?

[midwaybear]

Your towncase didn't do much for me, so yeah...
I think your assessment is wrong.

[midwaybear]

I don't think you are stupid. Thanks for telling me your inventory.
The plan is basically to have all the POE players claim inventories, so we can figure out a way to distribute fruit among them. I don't think it is smart to distribute fruit to townreads like Zaiden and I because maf are able to kill a obvtown and PR in one shot.
I need to take a look at SS again before moving forward.
@Gypyx It would be helpful if you explained what made you townread me (from two days ago).

would like to remind that i pushed MT and also was pretty consistently feeling average about pooky, which is like, idk, a super hyper risky plan given that SB was getting pushed?

Can you give some specific quotes where you did these? I'll follow up once you find them. Also, are there any other interactions with flipped scum or individual moments where you think it would be hard/impossible to fake as scum for you?

[midwaybear]

Who are the "poe players" midway?

For me, it is you, Gamma, and Gypyx.
I have Zaiden comfortably as town, and I will re-evaluate SS later. I want to try and keep a healthy balance with paranoia since we have a 5:1 distribution.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I have some mechanical ideas, but I'd like to at least scumhunt a bit before going down that road.

[midwaybear]

What do you think was out of his scumrange

i'll try to make a develloped answer when i can, not really comfortable rn

This

[midwaybear]

yes but thing is, if we elim today, the person that we exed won't be able to vend a peach you see?

If we no elim tomorrow and elim today, the amount of peaches in circulation is the same.

[midwaybear]

Ok, but the tracker abilities are supposedly 4 peaches. Since you have 2 and Cakez has 1, elimming Gamma still does allow both of you to create 1 shot trackers D8.
Idk if I want to elim Gamma yet though.

[midwaybear]

I do not have the ability to make pies also

Uhh, you straight up can't make pies?

[midwaybear]

You only have one peach, and you need at least three to bake a pie.

[midwaybear]

Gypyx - Crestheaven
Zaiden - Hearken
Something_Smart - Rio Grande
SirCakez - Galaxy Donut (lol)
Gamma Emerald - Honey Babe
midwaybear - Pix Zee