FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Caster]

It doesn't make sense because from what I see of Kerset, he is not a very mean person from what I know of him?


I really feel like this kind of conversation just came out of nowhere.. and it would make sense if it boiled over from an argument they were having in the Scum PT because why would Town be arguing with Scum in this way?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm kind of leaning towards Alter Ego being the last scum now because I kind of feel like they are just kind of fence sitting a letting the Rider/Beast 1v1 play out.

Both Rider/Beast sound more genuine in their convictions/beliefs in these last few days, whereas Alter Ego sounds more fence-sitty/careful.

I still don't know who they prefer to execute?

Also on reread there are parts of Alter Ego's iso that I'm not quite fond of on first two skims I will outline them later.

The thing is, I don't really know who I want to execute either. I feel like as scum it would be easy for me to pick an angle of attack and go with it, but I've been trying to read back and actually weigh the options. I know I've been slow about it. But I'm getting to it this morning.

[Servant Alter Ego]

It doesn't make sense because from what I see of Kerset, he is not a very mean person from what I know of him?


I really feel like this kind of conversation just came out of nowhere.. and it would make sense if it boiled over from an argument they were having in the Scum PT because why would Town be arguing with Scum in this way?

I...actually thought he was town at the time. Just town that had given up on trying to play the game in any reasonable fashion and had to be policied. I know I've lacked control at times but I'd like to think I would be able to keep my feelings out of the main thread if I were scum who had an issue with my teammates.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Spoiler: Long Reread

43
63 Initially questions Saber's NP Choices.
92 Kind of a Fence-Sitty/Noncommital.
108 Shades Assassin's Claim
111 Supports Saber's "caginess"
114
119 This is an interesting sequence, question then supports the person who is susp of them?
125 Not sure I believe this statement.

There's a back and forth between Alter Ego / Beast that kind of seems pointless? I'm not sure Alter Ego is playing to determine Beast's alignment as much as they are trying to win the word battle.

233 Decent interaction with Moon Cancer - Challenges them on the scumread. I however get the sense that Alter Ego feels more confident interacting with MC/Foreigner than for example Beast in an adversarial manner - it feels like they are more aggressive in this post than when they play footsie with Beast.

244 Rebukes Beast pushing for Saber by preferring Assassin/Berserker

335 Votes for Berserker

Another shit fight with Beast over some stuff that's kind of meh? I dunno what's going on here.


435 Doesn't like Avenger


441 Defends Foreigner?


449 Reads-list here

479 Re-iterates Moon Cancer is bad

533 Defends Foreigner's "anti-consensus" read on Caster

553 Defends Foreigner's statement about their notification PM


557 Continued Defense of Foreigner

some more fighting with Beast here.


733 is convinced Caster is town because of her terrible "case" on berserker

They invite berserker to self-hammer and their reaction to the self hammer troll is:


739
742
743

I dunno about this reaction. In the moment I felt it was pretty townie but I guess feelings fade with time? I wouldn't say it's impossible for this to be faked to be townread?

I have a lot of paranoia now :< I have seen scum use faked "twilight" reactions to get townread and I've read this over and over again and I'm not sure I am as sure this is a town reaction anymore.

813 Tells Foreigner to let me go as I am town. <3 Such a sweetie I feel so bad about this paranoia (⌒_⌒;)


866 Readlist - tries to reorient Foreigner?


867 Shades Saber for "fading"


906
911

Pretty good reaction to Saber claim, definitely doesn't feel planned out or S/S :<

937

First vote on the Saber wagon - pretty good post

1041 Pretty good post? I'm feeling like if AE is scum I'm just ending up pocketed all over again :<


1060 Back to Moon Cancer


1076 Am I being paranoid or does it feel like Alter Ego is deciding which scum-bus will set their team up better for the long term?


1083 Campaigning for Moon Cancer death.

Its at this point Notty gets iced and then the Gladiate happens.

AE goes very hard against Avenger and that makes a lot of sense, a lot of what they say is very passionate and emotional and I'm not sure scum!AE would be capable of going that hard versus a townie who had just gladiated their scum partner.

1184
1186

this sequence in particular feels quite over the top if they really are scum defending scum!foreigner here.

mm did I manage to get pocketed by AE a second time? I'm quite tired and I'll continue this tomorrow I guess.

A...second time? I'm not sure what you mean >_>

[Servant Alter Ego]

So let me try to summarize my findings here:

Rider:

+ Critical of Saber from early on, consistently kept up pressure on her (490 625 821 855 935 938 1510)
+ Play wasn't particularly attention grabbing or trying to look town
+ Voted Moon Cancer without much fuss, comments on him were decent (492 855 912)

- Was wrong on Foreigner and attempted to defend him using wagonomics reasoning. 921 also raises my eyebrow in concern because he appears to be doing a bit of speaking for Foreigner in that post. In general was somewhat protective of Foreigner (821 913 1426 1445 1711). Of course, I don't have much room to speak, I think my read there wasn't good for most of the game.
- Doesn't really have much at all in the way of interactions with flipped scum.
- Read on Beast has been fairly static. He's consistently reading him as scum for most of the game, where I sort of expect townies to maybe show some evolution and growth in their reads, re-evaluation or second guessing, but he's mostly kept the same stance on him while not pressing it much because it wasn't viable on previous days.
- Claim is somewhat strange, it seems a fairly odd choice to have not redirected investigations to himself if he can clear himself that way. But I'm not sure how to weigh balance in a setup like this
- Effort level increased sharply after Moon Cancer and Saber were eliminated, started trying to influence the game more.

I'm not even sure how strongly I feel about that last point, writing it out like that. Most players tend to fade and lose motivation when their team is doing badly. But that was how my brain saw it during day 2. Looking at the list, I struggle to come up with great points for town reading Rider. That was more or less why I voted him on day 3, simply for lack of towniness.

Beast:

+ Was hard after Foreigner for most of the game (450 657 827 842 856 891 918 920 960 1026 1321 1331 1598 1602 1615)
+ Voting Foreigner instead of Moon Cancer feels out of sync with Saber and Foreigner both piling on Moon Cancer together
+ Did immediately attack Foreigner for his very questionable night action claim, very possible he legitimately targeted Beast?
+ Claim of a clear on Shielder was bold and came at a time that wouldn't make much sense for scum
+ Clearing multiple people as scum feels like very suboptimal play
+ It makes more sense for there to be a town investigative role of some sort in the setup?

- Attempted to soft-pedal the wagons on both Saber and Moon Cancer. His reads on them shifted from qualified defenses to "Okay, I can see them as scum" as pressure on both mounted.

368 can be seen as downplaying the votes on Moon Cancer a bit, raises an objection in 1306 but then does a fairly quick turnaround and votes in 1311. Doesn't comment much on Moon otherwise.

Saber was a townread in 328 563 but starts to downgrade it to a more uncertain read in 826 and 896, hedging with a "I could very well have been wrong" as the thread is beginning to turn on Saber, but still tries to save them with 1026, only to finally turn around in 1069, witch justification coming in 1329 and 1330 that feels like it's...following other people's criticisms of Saber's claim? I'm not really sure why it took him so long to turn around on that claim if he found the reasoning believable. It's also a bit odd that he assumes Saber is lying about their NP, rather than thinking they had made an exaggerated claim in the first phase to try to get voted. The NP claim was so underwhelming, I wouldn't assume the ability itself was a lie, that's something I'd reserve more for a claim that sounded too good to be true (which was what turned me off Assassin initially)

- This is such a silly thing, but I feel like 1364 and 1365 may have been an attempt to dumbtell? It felt like it was laying things on too thickly. It was immediately obvious that moon cancer flipped scum from their entire role card being in red text.
- Was aggressively pushing for Saber to win the master vote without much explanation. This opens a significant WIFOM rabbit hole as to whether scum would really push so aggressively for one of their own in the opening phase. I feel obligated to mention that notscience was paranoid that Beast was the type to go for "big wins". I dislike the fact that he was confident on pushing Saber and tried to end the phase early but never really explained why until I asked about it. It seems easier to push and then make up an excuse after the fact for being wrong, rather than giving reasons at the time that people might look into and criticize. The fact that he made 857 actually bothers me significantly, it feels like a pre-emptive "Why would I do this as scum?" defense.
- Seemedly oddly self-aware about his interactions with the scum? In the instance of both Saber and Foreigner he made comments specifically about them not interacting with him, which is an...odd thing for someone to be paying attention to.

1026 to Moon Cancer is a "why him and not me?" comment.
468 is Saber making a comment concerned about Beast not explaining his townread on Saber. His response in 476 is relatively brusque, it doesn't feel like there's any desire to address Saber's suspicion. Then this is followed by 1054 and 1057 where he specifically makes mention of Saber ignoring him, which is very odd because as far as I can tell he wasn't really trying to speak specifically to Saber at that point in time.
1615 is also him calling out foreigner for "Their interest in shading some players for infractions on general rules while ignoring my own infractions."

With every scum, he seems hyper-aware of them ignoring him and feels a need to comment on it. The focus feels unnatural.

- His reasons for scum reading Foreigner still don't really make sense to me. The "evenly distributed focus" thing is not something I've seen anyone use and I don't really understand how it's supposed to indicate scum. I also don't think Kerset is particularly deliberate about playing scum in that fashion. In general even though he did come around to scum reading all the scum, his reasons feel made up to me.
- Soft clear on Foreigner feels like it could have been an attempt to shift attention away from them without having to comment on his play or truly reverse his read.
- Seemed cognizant of the unlikelihood of Avenger being teamed with Foreigner (1663), but went ahead with pushing for his elimination anyway.
- The clear on Caster feels like a suspect investigation choice. In my mind, Rider would've been the first person I checked after Day 2.


I think this is the primary question in my mind: In a world where Beast is town, why is he both alive and not roleblocked after day 2? Why does scum!Rider play day 2 hard defending Foreigner like his life depends on it, if he knows there's a heavy risk of him drawing an investigation or roleblock if it fails and Foreigner gets flipped? By contrast, the claim from Beast is perfect for scum - no one is going to jailkeep or roleblock a claimed investigative, no matter how suspect they look. I think Occam's razor here points me in the direction of Beast being scum.

As I write this out, I feel like the issues I have with Beast keep piling up, I was expecting this to be relatively small but I kept finding things to write about.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Actually, the 842 from Beast feels odd in sequence looking at it with the rest of what I've cited, because although he calls out the Foreigner vote as a bus vote he stays away from the wagon for quite some time after that, and I'm not sure why you'd do that if you felt Moon was being bussed. Undoubtedly Moon's PRs were higher value.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I did go through Saber/Foreigner last night to look at interactions with Rider and Beast, I'll quote the posts I found here for reference:

It also seems strange to have a miller and a "miller-proof" cop - unless we also have a non-miller proof cop, and I don't know how likely it is that Cabd would give us multiple cops

Considering that a lot of these super abilities are probably ***** and that it would take 5 days/nights to charge, most of these abilities will probably not see usage without outside help.

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

I agree with the last paragraph and I want to believe assassin is lying.

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

in fact late miller claims are often fake. Scum likes to wait and claim miller once they are sure that no one less does it.

I went back through Foreigner's iso and haven't seen anything resembling game solving for today. I also feel very unenthused by the self-vote since Ruler already tried the same stunt on Day 1.

Anyhow, my sleep schedule is in chaos and I need to take a nap before work.

Solve? I get scumreads even for solving Cancer.

In general there's a paucity of interactions around Rider. One of the earliest tells I learned was that scum will often talk with/interact with their teammates less. But I've been led astray by that tell a few times before. In particular, with Rider's activity level being fairly low for most of day 0/1, there would naturally have been less opportunities to interact with him even if he's town. I don't think the interactions I've quoted are particularly telling in one way or the other.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Whereas Saber's handling of Beast seemed quite strange to me. There's an awkwardness to it where they seemed to be almost talking past one another. It feels almost distinctly anti-pockety, where I'd expect scum who is trying to shore up a Master vote would be trying to remain in the good graces of the people supporting them. That threw me off Saber for a while because I didn't think scum would be critical of the voters on their wagon.

The point of hesitation is as to whether Titus would really distance from two separate teammates with the "buddying" criticism. But she was fairly off this game and at best that's a WIFOM rabbit hole. I can hardly claim it's damning evidence but it makes me scratch my chin slightly.

Is there some reason you're pretending to be Fferylit AE? Just like, trying out a new style because it's an anon game or? It's worth trying to read you early I think.

Can anyone answer that within the rules?

I'm going to head to bed and pray that what I fear will happen won't actually happen. Don't ask me as I don't want to manifest that energy into the universe.

I'm not going to get mod-killed (I hope) for asking why they started off with a catch phrase from a player that can't be in this game.

That's not what I am concerned with and I'd never hint at a modkill. That's against the rules.

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

I haven't directly stated my role...

Why should I want to give Saber the master? Something that is not about mechanics.

@Beast

When you're scum hunting would you say you identify scum more often than average?

My scumhunting prowess is largely dependent on the environment I get and my own personal life.

My townhunting is where it's at.

Why should I want to give Saber the master? Something that is not about mechanics.

@Beast

[Servant Alter Ego]

As for Foreigner, these interactions with Beast were also in the "weird, don't know if it's partner-indicative or just Kerset being odd" camp:

ngl, every time Archer posts I want to tease them relentlessly for their shoe-string rationales.
Jokes on me if they're scum tho.

What is this supposed to mean?

I'm saying they're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice. Their thinking is messy and seems pretty gut based. If they're town.

still better then ruler in this matter

It is not a response, it is my opinion. Idk what is your problem

The simplest interpretation is that they're trying to read you. You're a problem that they wish to solve

you didn't answer anything, why that post is out of place, why it has to be a response

I'm pretty sure that actually, I misread their intent and your interpretation of their intent makes more sense in context. That looks like supporting evidence on second look.

@Foreigner. Sorry could you reword that? I don't understand what you're referring to.

This quote in response to Avenger's 400 bothered me because it seemed to be attempting to answer for Foreigner, in a way:

Avenger, I'm pretty sure if you read that again you'll note that they're saying you're more likely to be town by claiming miller on your first post.

In particular, this next quote is odd, because he feels the need to respond to a "vanity vote" criticism of Beast with a defense. Why does he bother doing this for a town player?

VOTE: Shielder

On a side note, this is a vanity vote

Thats not true, we are not trying to elect US president. Just pick one out of 14 of us

[Servant Alter Ego]

But those are less important than these, the quotes that started my full-blown paranoia spiral:

In fact we should elect Beast. He made the most posts. If he flips town then we can use his vocality to lead and if he flips scum then scum loses the most influential player.

Off the table: Servants Moon Cancer, Beast. Not because they are my strongest pure of heart reads, but because they are the most likely to be falsely accused on D1 when they are pure of heart.

As i kid during winter i didn't wear a hat, because i was annoyed that parents insisted that i wear it. In the end i just harmed myself for no reason.
I see similar behavior in your posting.

Scum have no incentive to kill beast because that leaves shielder alive and confirms that shielder is town. It’s weird that you think they would want to do that and confirm shielder.

ok i will remind you about this after game, if beast doesn't reach endgame.

And I said to myself

what the fuck is this?

Is Foreigner taunting us by lampshading the deepwolf? The comment about voting for Beast was so

random

. Why does scum ever make that comment about a town player, in particular one who isn't close to being in contention for the master vote? The easiest explanation to my mind is attempted distancing. The comment to mastina about her reads being like "harming yourself for no reason". The townread on moon was in there too, of course, but in combination with these other points, feels specifically like a "ha your townreads are terrible" comment. I feel like he'd be less likely to dump on her reads if it was only Moon that was incorrect.


Maybe this will seem incredibly silly to the rest of you. But this was what inspired me to freak out and begin doubting my read overnight, and now I keep seeing reasons for Beast being scum.

[Servant Beast]

@_@
They were all unnatural around me because I was wrong on Saber and they were pretty cognizant of that fact, they wanted me around because I wasn't on the right path. foreigner never seemed interested in pushing me nor did Moon cancer. Which I found odd because a lot of the reasons they were pushing other people, I was guilty of as well.
Not being fair in their application of their scum tells was a red flag to me. Like, what I don't get from you Alter, is that as scum, why would I call them out in thread for not interacting with me as a good scum partner would when I would have a perfectly valid way of interacting with them in a scum PT?

For example why would I ask Kerset if they were role playing having english as a second language, when I would know. That was more a lazy tell than a dumb tell. I tend to read the most recent pages first and then go back.I was aware when I made that post what it was communicating, but I was like, hey a scum flip, fuck yeah. I should celebrate this.

I would like to point out that Kerset appears to be newer scum and, in this case, wanted to appear hyper-competent. He posted from an informed perspective multiple times and was liberal in their application of condescension preferring to go with, "everyone is ignorant" style scum. He mentioned me being master out of nowhere because he knew I was town and wanted to be correct on a read for later if I ever flipped town early or to create a simple trail for later if not.

[Servant Beast]

More likely he was simply emulating his own frame of mind, but was failing to adjust to what a non-informed perspective would look like. Basically, he was a role player that got too into his role and didn't really understand his own character.

[Servant Beast]

I noted that it made sense for town Saber to suspect me, of buddying them during that time because it didn't make sense for them to push at people who were supporting them. Titus often makes plays that are suboptimal to gain town cred. Which is what she did and what I noticed and brought up on my own @_@). It's pretty obvious that I wouldn't be calling out my partners in thread about how they aren't interacting with me well when I have a perfectly good scum PT to use to let them know that you need to talk to me you guys.

[Servant Alter Ego]

In the hopes of alleviating Caster's suspicions of me, I'm going to shift focus here and summarize the interactions between me and notscience/Gamma in the neighborhood, to hopefully convey what was going on between us:

To start things off, I make a comment about solving the game, notscience responds enthusiastically by saying he's down. He was immediately suspicious of Beast and felt he should go next if Saber flipped red. He thought it was suspicious how quickly Beast got to the thread after he hammered himself in the master phase. Asked me what my thoughts on Saber and Beast were. Says he doesn't see himself eliminating Lancer or Archer, he's not sure what to think of Foreigner, felt Assassin backtracking on his role was awkward but wasn't sure if his investigation-immune role existed with Avenger's Miller claim. Felt Caster was fine except that her wall on him felt like she was doubting her read on him while doing it.

My first real content post is a very long explanation of my neighborize ability and my rationale for my neighborize targets. I believe I already mentioned it, but I had considered Caster and Assassin, but both had seemingly indicated my ability was unable to work on them. I admittedly was biased toward voting Berserker in the master phase because if he was town, I felt there were good odds I would be able to neighborize him.


I respond that I was low-key worried about Saber, as they seemed to have faded, and wanted to keep an eye on them, but didn't want to burn them just because of that and their questionable twilight posting. I felt my attention was better turned to Moon Cancer, though.

(For what it's worth, I had Saber pegged as Titus fairly early. This was part of my dislike of mastina's arguments against Saber, because she was claiming to have guessed their identity and was making arguments against them I felt were disingenuous. My thinking had been that it was someone who was fearful of Titus's scumhunting and wanted to keep her out of a leadership position. It only became clear later on that mastina's assumptions about Saber's identity were terribly, terribly wrong.

notscience asks if I have reactions I wanted him to cause for me to read. I tell him I can't think of anything at the moment.

This is also where I remember I can simply full claim to him, having forgotten it in the excitement of the moment. I also explain that in part I didn't want the master vote because my NP simply isn't useful for town, especially not being charged early.

I give him my reads, at the time I had Caster/Lancer/Assassin/Shielder as my top town, with Moon and Ruler as my main scumreads, Avenger and Saber being lesser suspects. He asks me why I have assassin as a top townread.

He makes a mention to me to not use my NP boosting skill that night.

He questions my read of Ruler, asking whether she'd really stick her neck out for Moon like that so early on if they're teammates. I say some scum players are just fastidiously anti-bus, and since there were no actual votes in play during the master phase, it was unclear how much actual pressure was on Moon. I felt her reasons for her defense were so hard to believe as genuine. In hindsight, I was too tunnelvisioned on her simply for disagreeing with my (correct) scumread.

Mentions he's concerned about Avenger since he'd done next to nothing.

I explain my assassin townread by saying I felt his scumread of Lancer during the Master phase was less likely to come from scum, simply because it was so unpopular and served him essentially no benefit. There was an entire wall I wrote on it but that's the basic summary. I also felt the middle of 544 was fairly nuanced.

I make a comment about how I need to stop posting because I'm not getting any work done.

[Servant Beast]

Pretty much, I just *noticed* that they were being weird around me and called them out on it multiple times.
In this case it's because I was advocating for Saber being town and that they should be master.
Pretty much, they had no business with me or beef with me because I was wrong on multiple counts related to them.

I..don't really think Notscience would be scum reading me at this point if he was still alive tbh. But neither here nor there. Also, I've been incredibly active in the thread, so I'm kind of confused why Notscience would think it weird that I showed up.

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

[Servant Beast]

Actually, the 842 from Beast feels odd in sequence looking at it with the rest of what I've cited, because although he calls out the Foreigner vote as a bus vote he stays away from the wagon for quite some time after that, and I'm not sure why you'd do that if you felt Moon was being bussed. Undoubtedly Moon's PRs were higher value.

Just because it looked like a bus vote doesn't mean it was a bus vote. I was also more suspicious of Foreigner than I was of Mooncancer. You don't vote the player you suspect's bus vote. You vote the player you suspect.

My reversal on Saber is extremely clear from a trajectory perspective so I don't really know what to say there.

[Servant Rider]

Alter Ego hit some of the things that's been bothering me about Beast this game.

Although I'd like to add that I've been leery of the way Beast was attacking players that didn't support the Saber wagon early on (Archer, Alter Ego), mainly in that it seemed as though Beast was attempting to discredit them without actually saying why they were wrong or scummy (more of a "you're bad or can't be trusted if you don't support the Saber wagon" sort of feeling). I still think Alter Ego came away much townier to me in their Day 1 altercation in that it felt as though Beast was provoking Alter Ego and trying to play it off as though Alter Ego was just overreacting and being unreasonable. Also, Beast and Saber were both trying to spin the narrative that Berserker was not a good candidate for Mastership because scum were clearly trying to keep it away from Saber, but when pressed on it, neither of them were able to name any suspects.

The main reason why I didn't believe the claimed ability regarding Shielder from Beast was the timing of it. It came around the time the Berserker wagon was looking to be consensus choice for Master. And the vanity vote seemed like a weak attempt in pulling the wagon away from someone who really wanted the ability and most people thought was town (although I don't believe Berserker ever indicated what their ability would be, which, in a sense, can be incredibly threatening to scum as they don't know how to play around it) to someone that was barely or not around or didn't show any indication of wanting to be the Master (i.e. Shielder). It's also why I'm not a huge fan of their early play around Lancer, which seemed like a weak attempt at buddying a player that also didn't really care either way for becoming Master (which means this person probably wouldn't be a huge threat if elected). The Foreigner quote defending Beast's vanity vote continues to make me think scum were probably interested in moving the Mastership wagon away from Berserker, or at the very least stalling it.

The lack of care regarding Shielder on Night 1 is particularly alarming for me because I feel like they were set up to be killed to make Beast's claim more believable.

The whole thing regarding Beast shifting his read around against Foreigner could easily just have been Beast trying to find more reasons to be townread (claim detective when players were indicating there would probably be a decent amount of investigatives in this setup) and Foreigner falling on the sword for Beast to gain more credibility.

[Servant Beast]

In regards to Rider's arguments. They're the same arguments and they've been addressed honestly so and answered honestly before, so I'm going to skip it.

[Servant Alter Ego]

notscience says he doesn't have a read on Moon/Ruler at that point in time or their meta, only guesses.

My response is to say I burn Moon Cancer first no matter what and move on from there. I thought they were a newer player who didn't know what they were doing and got frozen when I called them out on their initial reads. I admit I may be hypertunneled on a player who is simply overwhelmed, but I also emphasize there is no way they should not be burned before endgame with their level of contribution, and if they are town I need to reset my reads massively.

I also ask at that point in time, in light of notscience's scumread on Beast, whether he outs that clear on Shielder at the moment he did. I felt at that point in time that Shielder was obvious burn-bait if they were town due to their low level of contribution. The fact that it was a hard roleclaim seemed to me like an utterly insane and possibly game-losing gambit for scum to make at the time.

I went back to review the first game to look at its role mechanics, that game had a cop role, but not one that would ignore a miller. I found it confusing what the mechanics were supposed to be that would allow him to ignore a miller. notscience speculates some, suggesting "pt parity cop" or "weak modifier".

He suggests to me that moon feels too easy, and to try to start a counterwagon on Avenger and petition Archer and Saber to join.

I give him a rebuttal to the idea of Moon Cancer being too easy. I say that although a lot of people were saying they scumread moon, there wasn't an enormous dogpile of votes, only a slow trickle. I suggest what's going on is like passive resistance, where people are scumreading him but not really pushing him.

There's a certain irony now in looking back on it that two of the ones who *were* pushing him hardest were his teammates.


I tell him it would be awkward for me to pivot on to Avenger at that point in time given how killing Moon Cancer was my pet project for half the game to that point. I was concerned it would look awkward for me. I tell him to have some patience, we were less than 24 hours into the phase and many players hadn't even posted substantial content at that point in time.

He comments about how he's spam refreshing but the post limit makes it awkward, I realize at that moment that it's 4th of July weekend, which might cause some problems. I make a remark about how you have to let the game breathe rather than constantly waiting for new stimulus. I make a remark about collating the reads everyone is giving (I never get around to this), and that he should reread and spam the PT instead of the main thread, since there's no post limit there. I make mention of how I had been taking ISO notes but they were out of date, and realize I should transfer them to the PT instead so we'd both have access to them.

At that point in time he says he thinks he has a guess on Ruler's identity (this was prior to the crackdown), and thinks she is probably town, just really wrong. I had an idea at the time as well that it was mastina, but I didn't have a good way of reading her and told him I'd defer to his judgment.

He makes a mention of how he didn't think foreigner would come out the gate shading the conftown as scum. I spend some time trying to make sense of the cases on Foreigner since he was the counterwagon to Moon Cancer at the time. I didn't feel like I understood Beast's reasons then, either. notscience mentions he continues to be paranoid of Beast.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

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[Servant Beast]

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

viewtopic.php?p=12450995#p12450995

Gunna repeat this for emphasis. Who fears Titus's scum hunting?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Anyway, notscience says he feels like Beast would push their buddy during the Master phase. I say that although I'm less certain on him based on his Foreigner case, I'd want to flip Saber before him rather than getting tangled up in pre-flip associatives. He agrees with me.

He asks about the percentages for the alignments of other servants, I didn't get around to answering this.

He says he liked Rider's wall but that his Foreigner read didn't say much, liked his push on Beast. I said the wall looked fine at a glance, hadn't had time to mull it over, but liked his case for showing conviction.

I also remark at this point in time that Shielder looked like obvious town now that they were actually playing, he agrees with me, says it's an easy read.

This is where mastina gets the thread locked for breaking the rules on identity guessing.

notscience gives his reads here. top tier: lancer/alter/archer/shielder upper tier: caster/rider/ruler middle tier: assassin/foreigner lower tier: beast/moon bottom tier: avenger/saber.

He makes a comment here about how he doesn't think Moon Cancer fits here as a teammate with Beast.

Wait. Holy shit. Let me see if I can find the post.

[Servant Beast]

Why would I point out how hard my scum partners were being bussed by my scum partners before anyone else had voiced this concern btw?
I'm genuinely curious why you think I would frame the game that way.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

viewtopic.php?p=12450995#p12450995

Gunna repeat this for emphasis. Who fears Titus's scum hunting?

I said what I said. It's not

my

assessment of Titus. (no offense if you're reading this, Titus). But I know there are certain people who

do

think that way.

[Servant Beast]

I likewise mean zero offense to Titus, they're a good mafia player but the idea of them being a widely feared and respected scum hunter on site is pretty much...not true. They very rarely get the eliminations they want. When they say something it's often times with a thousand other players screaming in the back ground at each other and rarely do they stop, eyes wide in their 1v1's and go, "You know, Titus is a respected scum hunter on site, she is a living legend with a reputation for accuracy, we should stop fighting and sheep Titus"

It just doesn't happen man, she's rarely sheeped.